A Brief Retrospective of Reign of Fire
September 15, 2020 8:57 AM   Subscribe

"It sort of had to be written by people who weren’t in the film industry, because if you told anybody the pitch was 'dragon apocalypse' they’d be like 'get the fuck out of my office!'" Set in a dystopian London besieged by dragons, Reign Of Fire debuted in third place on its opening weekend, behind Men In Black II and Road To Perdition. By the end of its theatrical run, it barely scraped back its $60 million budget (grossing $82 million internationally), which is an interesting figure when you consider its stars—Matthew McConaughey, Christian Bale, Gerard Butler—were all on their way to A-List status. “I don’t think you can afford to put those three guys in the same movie right now,” director Rob Bowman reflected.
posted by schoolgirl report (68 comments total) 10 users marked this as a favorite
 
I saw this movie in the theater and loved it. I'm not sure I've ever watched it since, even though it absolutely holds a warm place in my brain. Now that my part of the world is wreath-ed in toxic wildfire smoke, it's time for a rewatch!
posted by curious nu at 9:44 AM on September 15 [5 favorites]


I’ve only seen the movie on cable and...eh. Interesting concept, to be sure, but the execution just didn’t click for me.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:53 AM on September 15 [2 favorites]


I feel like a retrospective that doesn't consist a bunch of people reenacting the movie for a group of children by candlelight is failing to engage with the material.
posted by The Tensor at 9:57 AM on September 15 [49 favorites]


Yeah Tom Araya really . . . oh wait the movie. Carry on.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:08 AM on September 15 [1 favorite]


It's actually good and I kind of hate dragons in movies.
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:08 AM on September 15 [1 favorite]


My highschool friends loved this movie.
posted by BungaDunga at 10:11 AM on September 15


I saw this movie in the theater and loved it. I'm not sure I've ever watched it since, even though it absolutely holds a warm place in my brain.


Same. I really enjoyed it at the time. (Now I wonder if it'd hold up to a repeat viewing.) I thought the post-apocalyptic setting was a clever way of making castles relevant and giving the whole thing a vaguely medieval feel. I do remember wishing they'd included the dragons more.
posted by xenization at 10:29 AM on September 15


Yeah, for a film about dragons taking over the world there really are not that many scenes with dragons. A lot about the film doesn't really make sense but I love the tone. The scene where the adults are reenacting Empire Strikes Back for the children is the type of genius that justifies any amount of silliness.
posted by AndrewStephens at 10:44 AM on September 15 [17 favorites]


I remember seeing this in the theater and I thought it was okay. Cool concept, great cast, but that determination to keep it so grounded in reality, although great in theory, meant that you had this cast battling dragons mostly at dawn and dusk (when the dragons can't see well) in an ashy gray wasteland, and it turns out that there's few things more visually unappealing than an ashy wasteland in low light. That was my biggest issue with the movie: that realism they were going for meant the whole thing was just dominated by a relentlessly drab gray color palette anytime the dragons weren't actively breathing fire.
posted by mstokes650 at 10:47 AM on September 15 [3 favorites]


Bollocks to the McConaissance, this is peak McConaughey.

While the story telling scene is very good, the scene with the sky divers and helicopter trying to take down a dragon is a good action sequence, and McConaughey's shirtless axe-swinging dragon snack is one of the best self-sacrifices on record.
posted by biffa at 11:05 AM on September 15 [10 favorites]


For the record, I may have seen the film since I saw it at the flicks.
posted by biffa at 11:05 AM on September 15 [1 favorite]


You see, movies are great during the day, and even better at night. But after a hangover when watching them on cable television the next day, you can't focus. Magic hour.
posted by geoff. at 11:24 AM on September 15 [4 favorites]


it barely scraped back its $60 million budget (grossing $82 million internationally)

This is my weirdest pet peeve, but I see this error all the time—studios have to split the gross with theaters, so it didn’t come particularly close to recouping its budget (which is itself only a portion of the expense of releasing a film.)
posted by Horace Rumpole at 11:54 AM on September 15 [5 favorites]


Magic hour for me is the middle of the afternoon when you should be at work or school. Alone or with a group or just with your dad. Even the worst movies become somehow better in these situations for me.

Reign of Fire is one of those movies which seems to catch the imagination or connects with some people (like Event Horizon or Legend or... well any number of films) in a special way. In my case, having seen it in the theatre and being vaguely excited to see a live action heavy metal album cover come to life, the film left no impression on me whatsoever.
posted by Ashwagandha at 11:55 AM on September 15 [7 favorites]


And I think you could totally afford Gerard Butler at this moment in time. He's no longer the A lister he was once very briefly.
posted by Ashwagandha at 11:59 AM on September 15 [2 favorites]


I saw this at the movies as an awkward 3rd wheel with my bestie and her first high school boyfriend. It must have been one of the first times I went out to do stuff without being picked up or dropped off by a parent. We (the girls) had a sleep over after and discussed all the details (holding hands! A kiss!)

The movie theatre and mall with food court was pretty new in town, it was super cool and exciting for 14/15 year old me. This might have been the first movie I saw there? We met up with other people from our class so it wasn't me as 3rd wheel (or weird chaperone) the whole time. I remember one of our friends in tears that McConaughey's character wasn't the romantic interest and had died. I vaguely remember that this made the film 'antiamerican' for some reason?

I thought it was a good story but I wanted way more exploration of the post apocalyptic world, it felt like such a narrow view of the world.

The "rah" militaryness of the film by is interesting considering the time it was made in, 2002 being early Afghanistan war.
posted by freethefeet at 12:10 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


its stars—Matthew McConaughey, Christian Bale, Gerard Butler—were all on their way to A-List status.

Nearly a decade previously, McConaughey had a lead role in a quickie straight-to-video sequel (Return of the Killer Tomatoes), which the studio subsequently gave a brief theatrical release several years later when both of its leads (MM and Renee Zellweger) became bankable stars.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:17 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


And I think you could totally afford Gerard Butler at this moment in time. He's no longer the A lister he was once very briefly.

You remember that stretch of like eighteen months where publicists convinced studios that Sam Worthington was a major star on his way up?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:19 PM on September 15 [11 favorites]


To be fair, Sam Worthington will be featured in all four (!) of the upcoming Avatar sequels, currently slated for 2022, 2024, 2026, and 2028. So he's going to be huge again in a couple of years, probably.

(I had totally intended to come in here and write a joke version of this comment, like "BWAH-HA-HA five Avatar sequels you guys!", but it turns out the actual facts are just as dumb as the joke I concocted.)
posted by The Tensor at 12:27 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]


This makes a great double-B-movie-feature with Deep Blue Sea.
posted by gottabefunky at 12:27 PM on September 15 [7 favorites]


I know that it's never a good idea to bet against James Cameron, but four sequels to a movie not even the people who saw can remember looks like Greek Epic level hubris.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 12:49 PM on September 15 [13 favorites]


It's currently free on . . . The Roku Channel? I think? I don't really keep track of what's on what channel on my device but in any case I just watched it recently for the first time in years and it holds up as long as your expectations are "big dumb action movie with dragons."
posted by soundguy99 at 12:51 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


I was interested in it mostly for Alexander Siddig, aka Dr. Bashir from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. (His appearance was memorable but brief, like much of his non-Trek career.) Also, Alice Krige was in it, and apparently Jack Gleeson (aka Joffrey from Game of Thrones), I guess. The article still left me wondering if it was really this big cult movie, though, random reactions from barbecue store clerks notwithstanding.
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:53 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


Saw this with my best friend over the summer before we started freshman year of high school. We were both very into British/Scottish/Irish accents. This movie went over very well with the pair of us, especially when we connected Christian Bale to Newsies. It did make it hard to take The Phantom of the Opera seriously, since it starred Gerard Butler who looked so lovely in a sweater being crunched by dragons, as the Phantom.
posted by ChuraChura at 12:54 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


This would have made a great FanFare thread. :)

This movie was so not interesting for me when I saw it in the theater. The concept for killing the dragons dreamed up by Matthew and his mates just was so hard to accept. I would have liked to have seen it work successfully as a way of knowing how it was supposed to work rather than watching it fail and just being totally, "That was so complicated, only Hollywood could dream it up."
posted by Fukiyama at 12:59 PM on September 15


Now that my part of the world is wreath-ed in toxic wildfire smoke, it's time for a rewatch!

I would love to see HBO do a big-budget miniseries made from the Dragonlance Twins trilogy. Though the writers never intended it, pre-Cataclysm Istar could easily be recast as a metaphor for the existential climate catastrophe we're facing. Plus, dragons fighting it out! Tragic romance! Dwarven wars! It's total cheese and I can't believe no one has done anything with it.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:12 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


To be fair, Sam Worthington will be featured in all four (!) of the upcoming Avatar sequels, currently slated for 2022, 2024, 2026, and 2028. So he's going to be huge again in a couple of years, probably

That link to his IMDb page tells us what he has been in since his brief 2009-2010 moment of us being told he was famous. I am not the least well-informed pop culture guy in the world, but if you asked me what Sabotage, Hacksaw Ridge and Deadline Gallipoli were five minutes ago, I’d have guessed, “Fictional movies mentioned in Seinfeld?”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:50 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


"I know that it's never a good idea to bet against James Cameron, but four sequels to a movie not even the people who saw can remember looks like Greek Epic level hubris."

Scoff, Avatar is an unsinkable franchise. Full ahead!
posted by condour75 at 2:20 PM on September 15 [6 favorites]


Well, he's at least been working steadily, which is more than some flops manage. Taylor Kitsch is another one of those; bland white guys who Hollywood was convinced they could make the next big male star, getting a bunch of huge roles right out of the gate. Followed by the tragic discovery that no one was actually interested in going to a movie to see them specifically. I feel like there was at least one more around the same period.
posted by tavella at 2:20 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


I liked Sean Connery as the voice of the dragon.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 2:29 PM on September 15 [10 favorites]


Taylor Kitsch is another one of those; bland white guys who Hollywood was convinced they could make the next big male star

I think this is because the people making these decisions have no idea what star power is at all. Kitsch was in the popular TV show Friday Night Lights playing a sort of hunky boy next door? But like, what made that role good wasn't just him (he played his part, that's what actors are supposed to do) it was also the rest of the show and how it lined up with the cultural zeitgeist. Except nobody apparently understands any of this as it's happening (or maybe, the Venn diagram of those who do and the type of person who becomes a Hollywood exec has no overlap). Anyhow, they just thought "let's get the hunky guy from that football show and turn him into John Carter, I guess."

It's probably easier than figuring anything out.
posted by axiom at 2:36 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


This is one of my favourite guilty pleasure movies. The casting, acting, and storytelling was spot on. For what it was, it worked well. And 19 years ago, a creature rig and render of that caliber was no mean feat. The dragon holds up well, even now; it just aired on the telly not too long ago. Back in the day, one of leads of The Secret Lab (the house that did the vfx) walked into the room and I went all fan girl before remembering I was in an interview.
posted by lemon_icing at 2:56 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]


^ this is how I received the film too

I think every little bit of me from childhood that had read some Narnia, some Tolkien, some McCaffrey, etc was a bit excited to see a dragon flick of this nature and those bits of kid in me were satisfied.
posted by elkevelvet at 3:01 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


To be fair, Sam Worthington will be featured in all four (!) of the upcoming Avatar sequels, currently slated for 2022, 2024, 2026, and 2028. So he's going to be huge again in a couple of years, probably.

Well, we're going to see his face a lot again, which probably won't quite translate to him being a big deal. He was ubiquitous a few years ago, starring in a string of blockbusters, but nobody really noticed him then and I doubt they will now. He's fine at what he does, but if I found out he was one of James Cameron's CGI breakthroughs, a "leading man" program who will get the job done without all the fuss of a human actor, it wouldn't come as a total surprise.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:09 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


Nearly a decade previously, McConaughey had a lead role in a quickie straight-to-video sequel (Return of the Killer Tomatoes), which the studio subsequently gave a brief theatrical release several years later when both of its leads (MM and Renee Zellweger) became bankable stars.

Am I missing a joke or did you mean to type The Texas Chainsaw Massacre: The Next Generation? (Or: did the same thing occur with these same two actors in two different film franchises??)
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:12 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]


Nearly a decade previously, McConaughey had a lead role in a quickie straight-to-video sequel (Return of the Killer Tomatoes), which the studio subsequently gave a brief theatrical release several years later when both of its leads (MM and Renee Zellweger) became bankable stars.

I want this to be true so much that I’m afraid to look it up.
posted by bq at 3:18 PM on September 15 [6 favorites]


Yeah, the sleeper star in Return of the Killer Tomatoes was George Clooney.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 3:20 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]


Taylor Kitsch is another one of those; bland white guys who Hollywood was convinced they could make the next big male star

Well, at least they learned their lesson from that and haven't spent the last several years trying to jam Henry Cavill or Armie Hammer down our throats.
posted by Naberius at 3:27 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]


Am I missing a joke or did you mean to type The Texas Chainsaw Massacre: The Next Generation? (Or: did the same thing occur with these same two actors in two different film franchises??)

Sorry, yes — Return of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I had mixed up his early obscure-but-let’s-release-it-now piece with Clooney’s.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:36 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


Well, at least they learned their lesson from that and haven't spent the last several years trying to jam Henry Cavill or Armie Hammer down our throats.

Would that this were the case. Of course, these two were the male leads in The Man From U.N.C.L.E., a big screen adaptation exactly no one was crying out for, which makes it sort of a perfect storm of unnecessary.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:40 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


This makes a great double-B-movie-feature with Deep Blue Sea.

Let's not overlook Deep Blue Sea 2 and Deep Blue Sea 3
posted by nubs at 4:14 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


Interesting concept, to be sure, but the execution just didn’t click for me.

Exactly how I felt. Excited more by the premise than the actual movie.
posted by BrotherCaine at 4:34 PM on September 15


When I see a dragon story and realize that it's just dragons+regular weapons, I lose all interest. To me, dragons are only exciting as a guarantee of other magical setting genre stuff! And yet, I suspect there are some people who would see the trailer and immediately discount the movie because they would see the dragons, perceive this as a fantasy story, and have no further interest. So this seems like a movie that would be disappointing to wide swathes of the public? Glad some of you liked it, though.
posted by grandiloquiet at 5:09 PM on September 15


Let's not overlook Deep Blue Sea 2 and Deep Blue Sea 3

Well, 2 you can overlook without guilt. 3 actually wasn't bad although I don't entirely remember why it wasn't bad.

(Why, yes, the pandemic has significantly upped my intake of bad movies, are you surprised?)
posted by soundguy99 at 5:20 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


Would that this were the case. Of course, these two were the male leads in The Man From U.N.C.L.E., a big screen adaptation exactly no one was crying out for, which makes it sort of a perfect storm of unnecessary.

I really liked The Man From U.N.C.L.E. Great cast, fun movie.
posted by The Tensor at 5:43 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


that determination to keep it so grounded in reality, although great in theory, meant that you had this cast battling dragons mostly at dawn and dusk (when the dragons can't see well) in an ashy gray wasteland

I think one of the things most people don't notice about CGI stuff, especially with feature characters and not just scenery is that the often use rain or fog or night in order to be able to obscure bad stuff in the animation. Even Jurassic Park really only had a few really detailed bright full daylight scenes of the dinosaurs, and nearly everything else was done using some sort of obscuring setting in order to make the animators' jobs easier.
posted by hippybear at 6:29 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]


"bad stuff in the animation"? Use of rain or fog never principally about hiding subpar work during post-production. Rain or fog is mostly the province of principal photography. Animation dailies don't always use plates, are sometimes on neutral gray turntables, or rendered with gray shaders with no hero lighting. Hiding bad animation in a modern environment is difficult. If the animation is ropey, it's because production ran out of time or money or both. What studio are you talking about...that runs things as you described? I'm fascinated.

Things have changed quite a bit in the 27 years since Jurassic Park. An example from this century or from this decade would be relevant.
posted by lemon_icing at 6:51 PM on September 15 [5 favorites]


Yeah, The Man From U.N.C.L.E. is a ton of fun, I agree with what this video essay has to say about style being what that movie's made out of. You can think that's unnecessary, but "necessary" isn't the only good reason to watch a movie. Sometimes "fun" is enough.
posted by axiom at 6:52 PM on September 15


To be fair, Sam Worthington will be featured in all four (!) of the upcoming Avatar sequels, currently slated for 2022, 2024, 2026, and 2028. So he's going to be huge again in a couple of years, probably.

Well, we're going to see his face a lot again, which probably won't quite translate to him being a big deal.


We won't even see his face, since the Avatar sequels are looking to be about as "live action" as last year's Lion King
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 7:11 PM on September 15


I'll say this much, I remember the RiffTrax for Reign of Fire being pretty good.
posted by JHarris at 7:35 PM on September 15


I know that it's never a good idea to bet against James Cameron, but four sequels to a movie not even the people who saw can remember looks like Greek Epic level hubris.

Cameron made the highest grossing movie ever made (Titanic), then he again made the new highest movie ever made (Avatar). Disney had to take a property with 50 years of audience build up and like 25 previously released support movies just to get up to #1 (Avengers: End Game).

And with Disney now owning the distribution/merchandising rights to Cameron's stuff, the money printing presses are likely going to wear themselves out.
posted by sideshow at 7:39 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]


I know that it's never a good idea to bet against James Cameron, but four sequels to a movie not even the people who saw can remember looks like Greek Epic level hubris.

Let's see . . . three years ago, this little amusement park called Disneyworld opened this attaction called Pandora. It's done pretty well for itself, I should think. All joshing aside, I loved the ride; it was freaking brilliant. The World of Avatar is keeping awareness bubbling and can only but help sell tickets.
posted by lemon_icing at 8:06 PM on September 15


I quite liked this movie, and think I'll give it another go sometime. Between this, and McConaughey's turn in Sahara, it's like a window into a world where he ended up as that guy who made mid-level action movies with bizarrely powerful charisma, and we always wondered what he'd be like in a serious drama.

As far as Gerard Butler, I see your Sam Worthington and raise you a Matthew Fox.
posted by Ghidorah at 8:19 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


I’ve lately been watching films set a couple years either side of... well, now, and Reign of Fire has been the first one where the film’s world wasn’t in some way preferable to our own 2020.
posted by MarchHare at 10:02 PM on September 15 [1 favorite]


How, exactly, does Hollywood accounting work? Because to me a lot of it seems like a weird money laundering scheme?
posted by gucci mane at 10:20 PM on September 15 [3 favorites]


I think you answered your own question there.
posted by fullerine at 10:56 PM on September 15 [4 favorites]


Making movies to mix in the illegal proceeds was the resolution of the money laundering plot in Cheech and Chong's 1982 film "Things Are Tough All Over"
posted by mikelieman at 1:03 AM on September 16 [2 favorites]


How, exactly, does Hollywood accounting work?

I think Mel Brooks' career probably tries to explain some of it, mostly through song and dance.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:03 AM on September 16 [3 favorites]


At first I was all wait, Sam Worthington is a great actor! Then I realized that I was thinking of Sam Rockwell and wondered if Worthington was in a transformers movie I never saw because the fractal robots confused and frightened me.

Then I wondered if Rockwell even is a star, anymore, because I don't watch movies any more.

But mannnnnn, I can't wait to see five Avatar movies!! It's such a good cartoon, and could really translate well to the big screen. I wonder why nobody has tried to adapt it yet? That showdown at the Water tribe capital.... Epic.
posted by Jacen at 3:59 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]


Skydiving to net dragons is stupid and awesome, but this film nailed the creature design and dragon cgi.

Many dragon films after this, including Game of Thrones, and even the Hobbit, took their design from this film.
posted by eustatic at 4:55 AM on September 16 [3 favorites]


How, exactly, does Hollywood accounting work?

For a sort of "roots and history" layperson's view, you could do worse than William Goldman's Adventures in the Screen Trade and The Season (which is about Broadway theater, but of course the film business is rooted in the theater business.)
posted by soundguy99 at 5:20 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]


Pairs well with Dragonslayer as the B movie of an at home double feature (Double Dragon Double Feature!). Both of these movies feature what I consider to be the best cinematic dragons, and while neither movie is a masterpiece, each one is able to carry it's premise sufficiently well to have an entertaining evening.
posted by KingEdRa at 5:58 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]


Reign of Fire is a movie I wanted to like more than I actually did on release. But it keeps tricking me into thinking I like it more than I actually do because I've rewatched it like 3 times and every time I walk away thinking that it wasn't as good as I thought/remembered.

Anyway, I think it's time for another rewatch of this movie that is excellent and in no way going to disappoint.

The Man from U.N.C.L.E. is the best film of all time don't even @ me. Gaby, Solo, Kuryakin OT3 forever.
posted by slimepuppy at 7:53 AM on September 16 [1 favorite]


KingEdRa, thank you, came here to comment exactly that. Those 2 films smack of being home sick recovering from a fever, and should be watched and enjoyed to the maximum effect whilst in that particular state.

If y'all like Reign of Fire, the Drifting Dragons anime currently streaming on Netflix might make an apt sequel. I'm not the only person who agrees.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 8:04 AM on September 16


I would love to see HBO do a big-budget miniseries made from the Dragonlance Twins trilogy. Though the writers never intended it, pre-Cataclysm Istar could easily be recast as a metaphor for the existential climate catastrophe we're facing. Plus, dragons fighting it out! Tragic romance! Dwarven wars! It's total cheese and I can't believe no one has done anything with it.

Not to derail, but as of 2017 Joe Manganiello was working on a script for Dragons of Autumn Twilight where he is supposed to play Caramon.

Haven't heard a peep about it since really, but I do see that Joe and Margaret Weis are twitter buddies who tag each other on D&D stuff occasionally.

Reign of Fire was a date night movie for me and my wife early in our dating life, and now my kids might be old enough and geeky enough to enjoy watching it :)
posted by jrishel at 8:23 PM on September 16


I would love to see HBO do a big-budget miniseries made from the Dragonlance Twins trilogy. Though the writers never intended it, pre-Cataclysm Istar could easily be recast as a metaphor for the existential climate catastrophe we're facing. Plus, dragons fighting it out! Tragic romance! Dwarven wars! It's total cheese and I can't believe no one has done anything with it.

Not to derail, but as of 2017 Joe Manganiello was working on a script for Dragons of Autumn Twilight where he is supposed to play Caramon.


I love the original trilogy! It's so well thought out and well put together with its themes and characters.

I even have the Choose Your Own Adventure book where you play Raistlin earlier in his life.

I didn't get much into the rest of the books, but that first trilogy was golden. I should re-read it someday. i still have my original slipjacketed trilogy set.

There is a Dragons Of Autumn Twilight animated film from 2008 [91m], which I only just tonight learned about so I haven't watched. I'll check it out soon.
posted by hippybear at 8:43 PM on September 16


It's a superb popcorn flick as long as you can switch your brain off while watching it.
posted by Beholder at 9:08 PM on September 16


Apart from the brilliant Star Wars scene, about the only thing I remember about this is the surprisingly detailed Time Magazine they created to help fill in the apocalyptic backstory. You only see snatches of it in the film, but there used to be a copy of it for sale on one of those online prop auction sites, and you can see pictures of it from this blog post about the history of the magazine in movies:

Empire State Building front cover
Inferno: Is this the End?
Florence cathedral destroyed
Paris in flames
Young Boy Survives Inferno

(Imgur gallery)

IIRC, the text of the articles is a lightly-edited version of a real-life article about an earthquake in India.
posted by Rhaomi at 7:23 PM on September 25


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