City of Heroes is back!
October 23, 2020 3:40 PM Subscribe
In 2012, the parent company NCSoft to the shock of the players shutdown down the MMORPG City of Heroes even though it was making a profit. Everything thought this was the end of their beloved game.
But unknown to everyone, someone had gotten away with the source code. And for the last seven years private servers have been running.
In 2019 this became public. Previous on the blue
Later in 2019, one of the private server groups launched, COH Homecoming, as cluster of public servers.
Homecoming is a non-profit organization that only takes donations to cover hosting expenses. The servers are full featured, running the last issue of 2012 COH with bugs fixes and new content.
Homecoming getting started
Reddit forum
If you want to join and create a new hero. There is a design tool called MIDS.
Also, there are several other non-Homecoming related public servers with various experimental features. List
But unknown to everyone, someone had gotten away with the source code. And for the last seven years private servers have been running.
In 2019 this became public. Previous on the blue
Later in 2019, one of the private server groups launched, COH Homecoming, as cluster of public servers.
Homecoming is a non-profit organization that only takes donations to cover hosting expenses. The servers are full featured, running the last issue of 2012 COH with bugs fixes and new content.
Homecoming getting started
Reddit forum
If you want to join and create a new hero. There is a design tool called MIDS.
Also, there are several other non-Homecoming related public servers with various experimental features. List
It isn't hard to see how profitable an mmorpg is
Like basically every software project the capital costs are huge and the marginal costs are next to zero.
posted by GuyZero at 5:54 PM on October 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
Like basically every software project the capital costs are huge and the marginal costs are next to zero.
posted by GuyZero at 5:54 PM on October 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
They usually run around 1500-3000 concurrent users total across all servers depending on time of day.
posted by allegedly at 5:54 PM on October 23, 2020
posted by allegedly at 5:54 PM on October 23, 2020
Looking at their financial disclosure it seems like they pay zero for admins - everyone volunteers their time. Which is great but for a commercial enterprise this is where the actual money all goes. I'd be interested to see how many person-hours are donated to running the game which would bring the effective monthly costs way above the $5K they quote for direct costs.
posted by GuyZero at 5:58 PM on October 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by GuyZero at 5:58 PM on October 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
If anyone starts playing and wants help email me @KaizenSoze in game on the Excelsior server.
posted by KaizenSoze at 6:04 PM on October 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by KaizenSoze at 6:04 PM on October 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
Looking at their financial disclosure it seems like they pay zero for admins - everyone volunteers their time. Which is great but for a commercial enterprise this is where the actual money all goes.
Right and this is at a unique intersection of developers also being interested in maintaining a game, so labor is technically free. So let us assume that this is a skeleton crew that's doing maintenance and minor updates. Keeping it simple there's no need for specialization, or if there is a team would naturally find who likes devops better than say updating game code. In any case I'd have two full time developers and a third halftime developer. For resourcing sake we'll consider the halftime developer a junior developer and adjust salaries equally. That probably is enough to keep things humming and respond to requests though 1,500 unique users at a low-end is a lot. Lets assume three full-time and a half-time developer. Now before I go into prices you could just offshore this or assume twice the developers at half the cost and a lot of this depends on how the management of the company feels. Since this is a software focused company and the management can reasonably expected to hire good people, I will assume a few expensive good people and not a lot of cheap developers plus the additional administrative expenses for those:
3 FT developers @ $150k each = $450k
1 junior developer @ $80k each = $80k
1 PM to handle PM stuff @ $95k each = $95k
1 junior PM/administrative person @ $80k = $80k
Looks like legal fees were significant, I'd put a lawyer on retainer for $50k? Or at least if we're arguing over $50k for a legal retainer we're probably not in the business of this:
$755k for maintenance mode which includes answering users, maintaining the message boards, probably light social media, reporting financials either internally or externally. It assume one of the FT developers is probably an acting executive of some sort in function if not in name. There'd probably be a much better and less obscure experience for the users if this could be advertised even if it isn't this weird hidden thing. I don't even see a somewhat easy "sign up here" thing, I'm guessing you have to dig to figure out how to play the thing. So some low hanging fruits could easily double or triple this.
$62k mo + $5k servers = $68k (with rounding) / 1,500 unique users (low count) = $45/mo per unique user. I mean I haven't played the game since literally it came out but I'm guessing porting it to the iPad/mobile market wouldn't be outrageous. An Avenger/Marvel marketing tie-in with an occasional movie could bring enough cash infusion for some new assets/levels etc. but wouldn't be recurring so that'd be a perfect source of revenue to keep things up to date.
You could play with the numbers and get dev costs down then introduce more management, etc. but a $408k 6 month burn rate seems about right for something like this. That's at no profit but if you consider this an owner-operator type of endeavor $150k pretax is pretty good for the gig, especially if you enjoy the work. And if you think that's high, after reading some of the forum comments people are debugging random bin files that were generated by xls files and figuring out how to get simple things like powers to work. So these tasks aren't trivial.
posted by geoff. at 6:21 PM on October 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
Right and this is at a unique intersection of developers also being interested in maintaining a game, so labor is technically free. So let us assume that this is a skeleton crew that's doing maintenance and minor updates. Keeping it simple there's no need for specialization, or if there is a team would naturally find who likes devops better than say updating game code. In any case I'd have two full time developers and a third halftime developer. For resourcing sake we'll consider the halftime developer a junior developer and adjust salaries equally. That probably is enough to keep things humming and respond to requests though 1,500 unique users at a low-end is a lot. Lets assume three full-time and a half-time developer. Now before I go into prices you could just offshore this or assume twice the developers at half the cost and a lot of this depends on how the management of the company feels. Since this is a software focused company and the management can reasonably expected to hire good people, I will assume a few expensive good people and not a lot of cheap developers plus the additional administrative expenses for those:
3 FT developers @ $150k each = $450k
1 junior developer @ $80k each = $80k
1 PM to handle PM stuff @ $95k each = $95k
1 junior PM/administrative person @ $80k = $80k
Looks like legal fees were significant, I'd put a lawyer on retainer for $50k? Or at least if we're arguing over $50k for a legal retainer we're probably not in the business of this:
$755k for maintenance mode which includes answering users, maintaining the message boards, probably light social media, reporting financials either internally or externally. It assume one of the FT developers is probably an acting executive of some sort in function if not in name. There'd probably be a much better and less obscure experience for the users if this could be advertised even if it isn't this weird hidden thing. I don't even see a somewhat easy "sign up here" thing, I'm guessing you have to dig to figure out how to play the thing. So some low hanging fruits could easily double or triple this.
$62k mo + $5k servers = $68k (with rounding) / 1,500 unique users (low count) = $45/mo per unique user. I mean I haven't played the game since literally it came out but I'm guessing porting it to the iPad/mobile market wouldn't be outrageous. An Avenger/Marvel marketing tie-in with an occasional movie could bring enough cash infusion for some new assets/levels etc. but wouldn't be recurring so that'd be a perfect source of revenue to keep things up to date.
You could play with the numbers and get dev costs down then introduce more management, etc. but a $408k 6 month burn rate seems about right for something like this. That's at no profit but if you consider this an owner-operator type of endeavor $150k pretax is pretty good for the gig, especially if you enjoy the work. And if you think that's high, after reading some of the forum comments people are debugging random bin files that were generated by xls files and figuring out how to get simple things like powers to work. So these tasks aren't trivial.
posted by geoff. at 6:21 PM on October 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
Wait this predates GMail ... geeze. Playing around in it is kinda painful but my memories were of it being incredibly awesome in 2004.
posted by geoff. at 6:56 PM on October 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by geoff. at 6:56 PM on October 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
It was more fun before they nerfed enhancements.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 7:04 PM on October 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 7:04 PM on October 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
I was so hyped for CoH before it came out and got the game immediately upon release but something about the gameplay just didn't do it for me. However, I recently have been thinking of playing an mmo low key recently and this might scratch that itch. Thanks for the post.:)
posted by Literaryhero at 7:10 PM on October 23, 2020
posted by Literaryhero at 7:10 PM on October 23, 2020
I played CoH almost from start to end, the return has been great fun and nostalgia. :)
posted by PennD at 7:19 PM on October 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by PennD at 7:19 PM on October 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
This is fascinating to read about as a fan of old games and abandonware. I wonder about how many games which vanished with out warning don't have the critical mass of fans to pull off something like this. I imagine most go into obscurity never to be heard of again, except by historians of the art, so to speak. Every so often there are stories like this, which make me smile.
posted by Alensin at 8:31 PM on October 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Alensin at 8:31 PM on October 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
I loved CoH back in the day, but I'm not sure I want to spend the time and energy to try to recapture that magic. I'm concerned it would only be frustrating and disappointing. Some memories are best left buried in the dirt or perched on a shelf. Still, really cool to wax nostalgic while reading through everything here. Thank you!
posted by Godspeed.You!Black.Emperor.Penguin at 7:49 AM on October 24, 2020
posted by Godspeed.You!Black.Emperor.Penguin at 7:49 AM on October 24, 2020
What I remember City of Heroes doing well: sense of place. Paragon City was awesome. Its backstory, subquests to find landmarks, the municipal feeling, taking public transit to get to other zones.
Also, there was bases. I never got to play with them because you needed a team to have even the slightest chance of fielding one, they cost prestige which was its own special currency, but it was cool in theory at least.
And the character creator, of course, everyone remembers the character creator.
And powers like invisibility really felt like they worked, although really, anyone of a level slightly above yours could see you. There were all kinds of cool powers, and they generally felt like abilities from the comics.
What I remember City of Heroes doing badly: enhancements. They generalized and abstracted all of the fun out of character upgrades. You didn't find cool equipment that gave you special abilities, or magic spells, or weapons: you found little circles that you slotted into your character that made your preexisting powers a little better. There was basically no item system at all, all customization was done from your powers (which were pretty good) and enhancements that improved them (which was awful). And as you gained levels, your old enhancements would go obsolete, and you had to go find new ones just to keep being generally competent. That was it. It was terrible.
posted by JHarris at 11:04 AM on October 24, 2020
Also, there was bases. I never got to play with them because you needed a team to have even the slightest chance of fielding one, they cost prestige which was its own special currency, but it was cool in theory at least.
And the character creator, of course, everyone remembers the character creator.
And powers like invisibility really felt like they worked, although really, anyone of a level slightly above yours could see you. There were all kinds of cool powers, and they generally felt like abilities from the comics.
What I remember City of Heroes doing badly: enhancements. They generalized and abstracted all of the fun out of character upgrades. You didn't find cool equipment that gave you special abilities, or magic spells, or weapons: you found little circles that you slotted into your character that made your preexisting powers a little better. There was basically no item system at all, all customization was done from your powers (which were pretty good) and enhancements that improved them (which was awful). And as you gained levels, your old enhancements would go obsolete, and you had to go find new ones just to keep being generally competent. That was it. It was terrible.
posted by JHarris at 11:04 AM on October 24, 2020
About those bases. Your team designed their own minidungeon, spending prestige for each element, and enemy teams could try to survive it, with your team and its defenses trying to stop them. It was humorous that you had to basically set up appointments to attack enemy bases, but that's just the nature of an MMORPG where you couldn't be in the game 24/7 to counter threats. It's a shame that solo players and even small teams couldn't participate. I left the game before they introduced hideouts, which I hear were a customizable pad your character could hang out in.
posted by JHarris at 11:08 AM on October 24, 2020
posted by JHarris at 11:08 AM on October 24, 2020
@JHarris
Now, there are crafted "Invention" enhancements that do not lose effectiveness at you level.
Wiki:
https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Invention_Origin_Enhancements
SG base construction now has unlimited prestige. PvP has a small population, but there is a dedicated server.
posted by KaizenSoze at 1:00 PM on October 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
Now, there are crafted "Invention" enhancements that do not lose effectiveness at you level.
Wiki:
https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Invention_Origin_Enhancements
SG base construction now has unlimited prestige. PvP has a small population, but there is a dedicated server.
posted by KaizenSoze at 1:00 PM on October 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
Only thing I remember was the short time I tried it out for like 5-10 levels with a few builds, and one was a kick ass red horned demon looking dude. Maybe that was after the Villians expansion(?) or was that a separate CoV game completely?
posted by symbioid at 2:21 PM on October 24, 2020
posted by symbioid at 2:21 PM on October 24, 2020
Ugh. I have a machine that can run this for the first time in a while and I've installed it, but so far all the names I had for my former characters have been taken already. Looks like it's back to the thesaurus for me. :P
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 5:19 PM on October 24, 2020
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 5:19 PM on October 24, 2020
Only thing I remember was the short time I tried it out for like 5-10 levels with a few builds, and one was a kick ass red horned demon looking dude. Maybe that was after the Villians expansion(?) or was that a separate CoV game completely?
CoH + CoV = CoX as people call it now. CoV was part of the same game, at the beginning villains could only interact with heroes in PvP. Later they provided ways for people to switch sides.
posted by KaizenSoze at 7:14 PM on October 24, 2020
actually got this working on linux, thanks to the excellent forum guides. it's been a bittersweet mix of nostalgia.
posted by arrjay at 12:00 PM on October 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by arrjay at 12:00 PM on October 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
Awesome, thank you! I loved this game so much, and missed it terribly. Not so much for the gameplay, but for everything else :)
posted by Ilira at 3:34 PM on October 29, 2020
posted by Ilira at 3:34 PM on October 29, 2020
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It isn't hard to see how profitable an mmorpg is and maybe of all the crazy things Churt Shilling has done an mmorpg isn't one of them.
posted by geoff. at 5:43 PM on October 23, 2020