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November 5, 2020 6:28 AM Subscribe
The Queen’s Gambit is a hit seven-part Netflix adaptation of Walter Tevis’ 1983 novel, following the life of an orphan chess prodigy during her quest to become the world’s greatest chess player, set in the 50s and 60s. Created by Scott Frank (Out of Sight, Minority Report, Logan) and starring Anya Taylor-Joy, it has impeccable chess credentials with Garry Kasparov and Bruce Pandolfini as consultants, along with gorgeous costumes featured in a Brooklyn Museum online exhibition. agadmator breaks down the most important chess matches in the show (1, 2, 3); a chess expert on what the show gets right (NYT).
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I never read the novel - I am excited to watch this when I get some time. It's been well-received in online chess circles. Pandolfini has experience as a film advisor; I think he worked on the 90's film "Searching For Bobby Fischer", which also pulled off (as TQG seems to have done) the difficult trick of making a chess film interesting to a general audience. I mean, most viewers aren't going to relate to like, the big crisis in act 3 is that they recaptured with the wrong pawn.
posted by thelonius at 6:49 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by thelonius at 6:49 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
the difficult trick of making a chess film interesting to a general audience.
I don't know a good goddamn thing about chess and I loved it. And it did make me want to learn more, though I may not follow through on that, haha.
Am I right that the "trick" to chess is mainly being able to see the potential chains of moves further ahead than your opponent? It always seemed like once you get to a high enough level, it would be nearly impossible to think "further ahead" than your opponent because everyone would be able to see every possible move for like 12 turns out. But that's probably an exaggeration?
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:57 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
I don't know a good goddamn thing about chess and I loved it. And it did make me want to learn more, though I may not follow through on that, haha.
Am I right that the "trick" to chess is mainly being able to see the potential chains of moves further ahead than your opponent? It always seemed like once you get to a high enough level, it would be nearly impossible to think "further ahead" than your opponent because everyone would be able to see every possible move for like 12 turns out. But that's probably an exaggeration?
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:57 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
Am I right that the "trick" to chess is mainly being able to see the potential chains of moves further ahead than your opponent?
Sometimes that is critical, but what seems to set really good players apart from just good players is that their evaluation of a visualized position at the end of a calculation is better. I am a decent amateur player, nothing special, and I can calculate reasonably well, but if I played a master I'd probably lose (if I did not make a blunder) by being wrong about a line being OK for me at the end, when it is actually bad for me.
posted by thelonius at 7:09 AM on November 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
Sometimes that is critical, but what seems to set really good players apart from just good players is that their evaluation of a visualized position at the end of a calculation is better. I am a decent amateur player, nothing special, and I can calculate reasonably well, but if I played a master I'd probably lose (if I did not make a blunder) by being wrong about a line being OK for me at the end, when it is actually bad for me.
posted by thelonius at 7:09 AM on November 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
My partner and I enjoyed this more than anything else we've seen in a while. A limited series with a coherent story arc and good acting and it's not even from the UK!
posted by piyushnz at 7:13 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by piyushnz at 7:13 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
I am very excited about this, I love period pieces and female protagonists. I went back and read the ifth and the oofth, and that was wonderful! Perfect little story.
posted by FirstMateKate at 7:13 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by FirstMateKate at 7:13 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Am I right that the "trick" to chess is mainly being able to see the potential chains of moves further ahead than your opponent? It always seemed like once you get to a high enough level, it would be nearly impossible to think "further ahead" than your opponent because everyone would be able to see every possible move for like 12 turns out. But that's probably an exaggeration?
Not entirely an exaggeration, at least at the grand master level. Magnus Carlsen, for example, has said that he can "sometimes [look] 15 to 20 moves ahead". But at that depth a player is not considering all possible moves, just the most likely ones based on the pattern of pieces on the board, what they know of their opponent's style, etc, and it's only one aspect of what makes great players great. This chess StackExchange question has some good discussion of the thought process of high level chess.
posted by jedicus at 7:26 AM on November 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
Not entirely an exaggeration, at least at the grand master level. Magnus Carlsen, for example, has said that he can "sometimes [look] 15 to 20 moves ahead". But at that depth a player is not considering all possible moves, just the most likely ones based on the pattern of pieces on the board, what they know of their opponent's style, etc, and it's only one aspect of what makes great players great. This chess StackExchange question has some good discussion of the thought process of high level chess.
posted by jedicus at 7:26 AM on November 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
Am I right that the "trick" to chess is mainly being able to see the potential chains of moves further ahead than your opponent?
Not just seeing further ahead, but since the number of possible moves increases so quickly with every step ahead, being better at pruning the "bad branches" when you are looking at the tree of possible moves. This lets you see stuff like sacrifices: you might give up a pawn, but know that it wins you a more important piece later.
There is a lot more to it of course, like overall strategy and structure of pieces on the board vs. tactical trading of pieces. For example, there were some neat experiments on memory of chess positions. Not surprisingly, skilled players had good recall of chess positions compared to non-players, but only for positions from actual games. For positions made from random scrambles of pieces, they did no better than anyone else.
I still have a free promotional t-shirt giveaway from the pivotal Kasparov computer chess matches in the mid 1990s, when computers were just becoming better than the best human players.
Anyway, I look forward to reading these links after watching the show - really enjoyed the first episode.
posted by exogenous at 7:27 AM on November 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
Not just seeing further ahead, but since the number of possible moves increases so quickly with every step ahead, being better at pruning the "bad branches" when you are looking at the tree of possible moves. This lets you see stuff like sacrifices: you might give up a pawn, but know that it wins you a more important piece later.
There is a lot more to it of course, like overall strategy and structure of pieces on the board vs. tactical trading of pieces. For example, there were some neat experiments on memory of chess positions. Not surprisingly, skilled players had good recall of chess positions compared to non-players, but only for positions from actual games. For positions made from random scrambles of pieces, they did no better than anyone else.
I still have a free promotional t-shirt giveaway from the pivotal Kasparov computer chess matches in the mid 1990s, when computers were just becoming better than the best human players.
Anyway, I look forward to reading these links after watching the show - really enjoyed the first episode.
posted by exogenous at 7:27 AM on November 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
Is this show age-appropriate for an 11yr old ?
posted by armoir from antproof case at 7:35 AM on November 5, 2020
posted by armoir from antproof case at 7:35 AM on November 5, 2020
Posted too soon. Just read synopsis on Wikipedia. Seems like a No.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 7:36 AM on November 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by armoir from antproof case at 7:36 AM on November 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
Not entirely an exaggeration, at least at the grand master level. Magnus Carlsen, for example, has said that he can "sometimes [look] 15 to 20 moves ahead". But at that depth a player is not considering all possible moves, just the most likely ones based on the pattern of pieces on the board, what they know of their opponent's style, etc, and it's only one aspect of what makes great players great
The old saw, that is attributed to several 20th century masters, was, when asked how many moves ahead he sees, [Lasker|Reti|Capablanca|whoever] said "Only one, but it is the best move".
If a line is very forcing, with lots of checks and "only moves", I don't think it's too difficult for most grandmasters to be able to calculate it to 15 or 20 moves ahead. Carlsen is maybe a little better at this than his peers, faster or more accurate, but I think what really sets him apart is his ability to outplay very good players In simplified positions and endgames. I mean, when you are talking about the top 10 or 20 players in the world, the kind of players who might realistically hope to win a tournament over Carlsen or be his opponent in a World Championship match, these players are all just monsters with their tactics and calculating ability.
posted by thelonius at 7:37 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
The old saw, that is attributed to several 20th century masters, was, when asked how many moves ahead he sees, [Lasker|Reti|Capablanca|whoever] said "Only one, but it is the best move".
If a line is very forcing, with lots of checks and "only moves", I don't think it's too difficult for most grandmasters to be able to calculate it to 15 or 20 moves ahead. Carlsen is maybe a little better at this than his peers, faster or more accurate, but I think what really sets him apart is his ability to outplay very good players In simplified positions and endgames. I mean, when you are talking about the top 10 or 20 players in the world, the kind of players who might realistically hope to win a tournament over Carlsen or be his opponent in a World Championship match, these players are all just monsters with their tactics and calculating ability.
posted by thelonius at 7:37 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
Created by Scott Frank (Out of Sight, Minority Report, Logan)
also Godless which kept me interested pretty much all the way through.
posted by philip-random at 7:38 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
also Godless which kept me interested pretty much all the way through.
posted by philip-random at 7:38 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
the "trick" to chess is mainly
caring enough about it to spend the ridiculous number of hours it takes to get good. And preferably having done that pretty consistently from quite an early age.
posted by flabdablet at 7:45 AM on November 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
caring enough about it to spend the ridiculous number of hours it takes to get good. And preferably having done that pretty consistently from quite an early age.
posted by flabdablet at 7:45 AM on November 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
This show is so good. I haven't finished it yet, but I already wish I could learn chess again. I need an actual person to give me lessons, I'm afraid.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:53 AM on November 5, 2020
posted by Countess Elena at 7:53 AM on November 5, 2020
If you have caught the 'ancient game explained through a television show with frenemy rivalries and the ghosts of the past haunting every move' genre bug, I'll recommend Hikaru no Go, which has a 00's anime available on YouTube and a current Chinese webdrama coming out weekly.
posted by persona at 8:07 AM on November 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by persona at 8:07 AM on November 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
> Is this show age-appropriate for an 11yr old ?
I would say, yes, absolutely. There are definitely mature themes: one of the running themes of the series is Beth's struggles with alcohol and drugs, but it's portrayed in a way that I would say is absolutely appropriate (even educational) for an 11 year old (though of course different families have different policies on this stuff).
It also depicts her growing into a young woman, including her starting to menstruate and having sex, but there's nothing explicit (it's like, two people making out and then showing them waking up the next morning). All the sexual relationships on the show are completely consensual. There's also some vague depictions of mental illness in flashbacks to Beth's deceased mother, but it's sensitively done.
Basically: the show has some mature themes, but they depict them in a responsible and mature way. The characters sometimes act in self-destructive ways, but it's never glamorized. If I had an 11-year-old kid, I would plant them in front of this show, it's a better teacher about all the tricky issues you face growing up than anything else I've seen in years.
posted by gkhan at 8:07 AM on November 5, 2020 [9 favorites]
I would say, yes, absolutely. There are definitely mature themes: one of the running themes of the series is Beth's struggles with alcohol and drugs, but it's portrayed in a way that I would say is absolutely appropriate (even educational) for an 11 year old (though of course different families have different policies on this stuff).
It also depicts her growing into a young woman, including her starting to menstruate and having sex, but there's nothing explicit (it's like, two people making out and then showing them waking up the next morning). All the sexual relationships on the show are completely consensual. There's also some vague depictions of mental illness in flashbacks to Beth's deceased mother, but it's sensitively done.
Basically: the show has some mature themes, but they depict them in a responsible and mature way. The characters sometimes act in self-destructive ways, but it's never glamorized. If I had an 11-year-old kid, I would plant them in front of this show, it's a better teacher about all the tricky issues you face growing up than anything else I've seen in years.
posted by gkhan at 8:07 AM on November 5, 2020 [9 favorites]
I mean, most viewers aren't going to relate to like, the big crisis in act 3 is that they recaptured with the wrong pawn.
That's never the big crisis. The big crisis is that they always set up the chessboard with the wrong colour square in the bottom right corner.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 8:08 AM on November 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
That's never the big crisis. The big crisis is that they always set up the chessboard with the wrong colour square in the bottom right corner.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 8:08 AM on November 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
Seriously though - I've heard very good things about this show, though I haven't had time to watch it yet, it's bookmarked on Netflix. Mrs. CF, who can't even play chess but is a big fan of psychological drama, bookmarked it before I did, which is a very good sign.
For me, the important thing about a drama about chess (or any other mind sport for that matter) would be that it can present a reasonable honesty and awareness around neurodiversity without being mawkish or patronising. So far, reviews are good on that count.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 8:10 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
For me, the important thing about a drama about chess (or any other mind sport for that matter) would be that it can present a reasonable honesty and awareness around neurodiversity without being mawkish or patronising. So far, reviews are good on that count.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 8:10 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
the big crisis in act 3 is that they recaptured with the wrong pawn.
At this point one should mention 2001, in which HAL announces checkmate against Poole with 'Queen to Bishop Three'. Any decent chess player knows that the move HAL played is actually Queen to Bishop Six. Poole should have realised on the spot that HAL was flawed and would, if left unchecked, likely get them into a lot of trouble.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 8:17 AM on November 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
At this point one should mention 2001, in which HAL announces checkmate against Poole with 'Queen to Bishop Three'. Any decent chess player knows that the move HAL played is actually Queen to Bishop Six. Poole should have realised on the spot that HAL was flawed and would, if left unchecked, likely get them into a lot of trouble.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 8:17 AM on November 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
That's never the big crisis. The big crisis is that they always set up the chessboard with the wrong colour square in the bottom right corner.
I really think this is some kind of stagehand in-joke. If they put the thing down randomly, they'd get it right half the time, wouldn't they?
posted by thelonius at 8:18 AM on November 5, 2020
I really think this is some kind of stagehand in-joke. If they put the thing down randomly, they'd get it right half the time, wouldn't they?
posted by thelonius at 8:18 AM on November 5, 2020
The chess journalist Bill Wall has an excellent list of all the movies - plus all the TV shows, comics, and artworks - that have tried to do chess and got it wrong.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 8:32 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Cardinal Fang at 8:32 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
I really think this is some kind of stagehand in-joke. If they put the thing down randomly, they'd get it right half the time, wouldn't they?
One-quarter of the time. Assuming the squares are printed on only one side.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 8:44 AM on November 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
One-quarter of the time. Assuming the squares are printed on only one side.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 8:44 AM on November 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
It also depicts her growing into a young woman, including her starting to menstruate and having sex, but there's nothing explicit (it's like, two people making out and then showing them waking up the next morning). All the sexual relationships on the show are completely consensual.
I REALLY REALLY appreciated how they approached Beth's sexuality. She is shown to be curious about sex and interested in sex but it never, ever becomes about a specific person she's attracted to. She gets crushes but never gets unreasonably hung up on a particular person, her sexual journey is all about her. It rules.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:59 AM on November 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
I REALLY REALLY appreciated how they approached Beth's sexuality. She is shown to be curious about sex and interested in sex but it never, ever becomes about a specific person she's attracted to. She gets crushes but never gets unreasonably hung up on a particular person, her sexual journey is all about her. It rules.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:59 AM on November 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
One-quarter of the time. Assuming the squares are printed on only one side.
One-half is correct. It can be either a light or dark square. With the exception of certain boards that have the ranks and files labeled, chess boards have 180 degree rotational symmetry.
posted by explosion at 9:13 AM on November 5, 2020
One-half is correct. It can be either a light or dark square. With the exception of certain boards that have the ranks and files labeled, chess boards have 180 degree rotational symmetry.
posted by explosion at 9:13 AM on November 5, 2020
I think that was a joke about the board being flipped upside-down
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:14 AM on November 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:14 AM on November 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
Oh my god, I'm an idiot. No wonder I'm so terrible at chess.
posted by explosion at 9:29 AM on November 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by explosion at 9:29 AM on November 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
> Is this show age-appropriate for an 11yr old ?
A scene where she is young and says something along the lines, "I play the games in my head." made me burst into tears. Kids who are borderline savant need to see a character like this to mitigate the loneliness of being super-intelligent in educational settings at a young age.
posted by goalyeehah at 9:42 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
A scene where she is young and says something along the lines, "I play the games in my head." made me burst into tears. Kids who are borderline savant need to see a character like this to mitigate the loneliness of being super-intelligent in educational settings at a young age.
posted by goalyeehah at 9:42 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
The Fisher-Spassky thing was so in the news, that all the kids in my High School got all into chess, as did I to some extent. I would play sanctioned tournaments with the only goal of not losing ALL of the five games to be played. Once I actually won TWO out of five.
The chess in Queens Gambit was pretty credible, she plays the Reti opening, which is a Hyper-Modern opening, so that fits the scenario, I guess. But the Reti is not generally a sharp opening, where you could likely get a quick mate like shown in the show, it's usually a slog to a over-complicated middle game, where your oppoent has the chance to make small errors, and lose a piece here and there.
The Queen's Gambit is a sharp opening, but does she even play that?
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:44 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
The chess in Queens Gambit was pretty credible, she plays the Reti opening, which is a Hyper-Modern opening, so that fits the scenario, I guess. But the Reti is not generally a sharp opening, where you could likely get a quick mate like shown in the show, it's usually a slog to a over-complicated middle game, where your oppoent has the chance to make small errors, and lose a piece here and there.
The Queen's Gambit is a sharp opening, but does she even play that?
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:44 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
I absolutely adored the show.
The book was amazing too.
posted by thivaia at 9:45 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
The book was amazing too.
posted by thivaia at 9:45 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
I know nothing about chess, but am really in need of fresh tv shows to watch, so I am thinking about trying this. It just seems like sitting watching a show about someone playing chess would be only slightly more interesting to me than sitting watching people play in real life. So not very interesting at all. Are there plenty of other things happening on the show besides just chess games being played?
posted by WalkerWestridge at 9:49 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 9:49 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
The art direction and production are pretty well-done, IMO.
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:51 AM on November 5, 2020
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:51 AM on November 5, 2020
Most of the show focuses on things other than literal chess games, much in the same way a hospital drama isn’t only about watching operations.
posted by adrianhon at 9:54 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by adrianhon at 9:54 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
Pandolfini has experience as a film advisor; I think he worked on the 90's film "Searching For Bobby Fischer”
He was also the actual Josh Waitzkin’s chess teacher, wasn’t he?
posted by atoxyl at 9:57 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
He was also the actual Josh Waitzkin’s chess teacher, wasn’t he?
posted by atoxyl at 9:57 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
I know enough about chess to know how the horsey moves, and I loved it, WalkerWestridge. It's not about chess, really, and people sit around playing chess only to the extent that playing chess is necessary to highlight their internal mental and emotional state or provide some tension. Any meaningful chess maneuvering is explained in the show, so you're never wondering why it matters that she did or didn't do a thing.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:57 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 9:57 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
Yeah, as someone who knows next to nothing about chess, I still found this a gripping watch. The actual chess matches are filmed and acted such that you're interested in the characters, not the game.
Also, re appropriate-ness for kids: apart from the drugs and alcohol, there is one sex scene that's not entirely fade to black. There's some thrusting action happening under the sheets, while Beth has a wait, this is it? kind of look on her face. Other than that, I imagine the pacing might be a tough sell for younger audiences. I myself thought the pacing sagged at points. Still, this is definitely one of my favorite things I've watched this year.
posted by yasaman at 10:04 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Also, re appropriate-ness for kids: apart from the drugs and alcohol, there is one sex scene that's not entirely fade to black. There's some thrusting action happening under the sheets, while Beth has a wait, this is it? kind of look on her face. Other than that, I imagine the pacing might be a tough sell for younger audiences. I myself thought the pacing sagged at points. Still, this is definitely one of my favorite things I've watched this year.
posted by yasaman at 10:04 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
He was also the actual Josh Waitzkin’s chess teacher, wasn’t he?
Yes, I think he was. Waitzkin left chess a long time ago and became a T'ai Chi champion and black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, btw.
posted by thelonius at 10:28 AM on November 5, 2020
Yes, I think he was. Waitzkin left chess a long time ago and became a T'ai Chi champion and black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, btw.
posted by thelonius at 10:28 AM on November 5, 2020
I know nothing about chess, but am really in need of fresh tv shows to watch, so I am thinking about trying this. It just seems like sitting watching a show about someone playing chess would be only slightly more interesting to me than sitting watching people play in real life. So not very interesting at all. Are there plenty of other things happening on the show besides just chess games being played?
Oh yes. Chess functions for the main character as the only thing she can control in a life marked by tragedy, loneliness, and addiction, and is ultimately also the conduit through which she realizes she's capable of being part of a community and having a life beyond this one incredible ability. And even the times when they show actual chess games are very deftly handled, from the perspective of someone who barely knows what the different pieces do.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:33 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Oh yes. Chess functions for the main character as the only thing she can control in a life marked by tragedy, loneliness, and addiction, and is ultimately also the conduit through which she realizes she's capable of being part of a community and having a life beyond this one incredible ability. And even the times when they show actual chess games are very deftly handled, from the perspective of someone who barely knows what the different pieces do.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:33 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Am I right that the "trick" to chess is mainly being able to see the potential chains of moves further ahead than your opponent?
Disclaimer: I’m no good at chess but interested in it.
At “classical” (read: long) game lengths, keep in mind that there’s also a whole lot of memory/preparation involved. It’s usually quite a few moves into a high-level game before the players aren’t exchanging moves they’ve studied/prepared in advance. Things may get a little looser after that (unless there’s already a clear draw) and then as the pieces get whittled down you’re in the endgame, which like the opening has a whole theory to it and is something players extensively practice, but which can also involve a fair amount of “calculation” (thinking ahead) because you’re puzzling out situations like “can I force a pawn through to a promotion for a (guaranteed given the skill level) win or can my opponent stop me?”
Because of the preparation combined with the overall skill level, high level “traditional” chess has a lot of draws these days. Of course if you’re playing with a timer, you have to be more intuitive, and a lot of chess is played with a timer these days. The last world championship was very conservative and drawish through the scheduled classical games, and then went to a speed(ier) chess overtime, which Carlsen (who is known as a strong intuitive player and is probably the first world champion “of” the online speed chess generation) swiftly dominated.
posted by atoxyl at 10:39 AM on November 5, 2020
Disclaimer: I’m no good at chess but interested in it.
At “classical” (read: long) game lengths, keep in mind that there’s also a whole lot of memory/preparation involved. It’s usually quite a few moves into a high-level game before the players aren’t exchanging moves they’ve studied/prepared in advance. Things may get a little looser after that (unless there’s already a clear draw) and then as the pieces get whittled down you’re in the endgame, which like the opening has a whole theory to it and is something players extensively practice, but which can also involve a fair amount of “calculation” (thinking ahead) because you’re puzzling out situations like “can I force a pawn through to a promotion for a (guaranteed given the skill level) win or can my opponent stop me?”
Because of the preparation combined with the overall skill level, high level “traditional” chess has a lot of draws these days. Of course if you’re playing with a timer, you have to be more intuitive, and a lot of chess is played with a timer these days. The last world championship was very conservative and drawish through the scheduled classical games, and then went to a speed(ier) chess overtime, which Carlsen (who is known as a strong intuitive player and is probably the first world champion “of” the online speed chess generation) swiftly dominated.
posted by atoxyl at 10:39 AM on November 5, 2020
In the 50s and 60s there was plenty of chess theory but the preparation was not as deep or extensive as far as I know. As much as he’s known as a mercurial genius, Bobby Fisher was actually one of the players who took it to another level. And I believe Kasparov was one of the first to really start leveraging computers to take it to an even higher level.
posted by atoxyl at 10:43 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 10:43 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
Yes, I think he was. Waitzkin left chess a long time ago and became a T'ai Chi champion and black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, btw.
Yeah he “only” made IM (which is extraordinarily good, understand) before retiring from professional play, and seems pretty satisfied with that - which is in line with the message of his dad’s book, really.
posted by atoxyl at 11:05 AM on November 5, 2020
Yeah he “only” made IM (which is extraordinarily good, understand) before retiring from professional play, and seems pretty satisfied with that - which is in line with the message of his dad’s book, really.
posted by atoxyl at 11:05 AM on November 5, 2020
Wife and I binged "The Queen's Gambit" (Netflix) over two nights. An excellent distraction from election night. Some spoilers:
Overall, we enjoyed it. But I felt it got too trite towards the end. Wrapped up too neatly. Alcohol and drug addiction? A couple of pep talks can cure you of that! The estranged gang gets back together to help! Smiles all around.
Wasn't hoping for a sad ending, but the earlier episodes were simply better written and more compelling. Main character/actor is great. She has a face you cannot look away from. Very expressive.
IMO, it suffered from over-exuberant art direction and costume design, as most shows and films about the 50s-60s do these days. I enjoyed the visuals! But after a while, it becomes distracting to me. Is a state chess tournament in Kentucky REALLY being held in a super swanky, mid-century modern, ultra-glamourous hotel? Would she REALLY have 10 different, perfectly coordinated outfits for her trips? I know it's all fiction, but the over-the-top glamour art direction gets in the way of my suspension of disbelief sometimes.
Plus, I personally think it would have been stronger for the main character to be less drop-dead gorgeous and perfectly put together in so many scenes. But it's Hollywood and there are no "plain" looking actors. I also thought some of the male actors were duds... attractive dark-haired guy she kept running into (no clue what his name was—they implied he was bisexual, I think?) for instance had very little screen appeal beyond his looks.
Also: as soon as I saw her friend in the orphanage at the beginning, I KNEW she'd return at the end. Pretty predictable stuff. But enjoyable nonetheless. As for kid friendly? I think it's a good show for an 11 year old.
posted by SoberHighland at 11:23 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
Overall, we enjoyed it. But I felt it got too trite towards the end. Wrapped up too neatly. Alcohol and drug addiction? A couple of pep talks can cure you of that! The estranged gang gets back together to help! Smiles all around.
Wasn't hoping for a sad ending, but the earlier episodes were simply better written and more compelling. Main character/actor is great. She has a face you cannot look away from. Very expressive.
IMO, it suffered from over-exuberant art direction and costume design, as most shows and films about the 50s-60s do these days. I enjoyed the visuals! But after a while, it becomes distracting to me. Is a state chess tournament in Kentucky REALLY being held in a super swanky, mid-century modern, ultra-glamourous hotel? Would she REALLY have 10 different, perfectly coordinated outfits for her trips? I know it's all fiction, but the over-the-top glamour art direction gets in the way of my suspension of disbelief sometimes.
Plus, I personally think it would have been stronger for the main character to be less drop-dead gorgeous and perfectly put together in so many scenes. But it's Hollywood and there are no "plain" looking actors. I also thought some of the male actors were duds... attractive dark-haired guy she kept running into (no clue what his name was—they implied he was bisexual, I think?) for instance had very little screen appeal beyond his looks.
Also: as soon as I saw her friend in the orphanage at the beginning, I KNEW she'd return at the end. Pretty predictable stuff. But enjoyable nonetheless. As for kid friendly? I think it's a good show for an 11 year old.
posted by SoberHighland at 11:23 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
Plus, I personally think it would have been stronger for the main character to be less drop-dead gorgeous and perfectly put together in so many scenes.
It'd be less unnerving if the real-life world chess champion, Magnus Carlsen, didn't look so much like Justin Bieber.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 11:24 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
It'd be less unnerving if the real-life world chess champion, Magnus Carlsen, didn't look so much like Justin Bieber.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 11:24 AM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
Yeah he “only” made IM (which is extraordinarily good, understand) before retiring from professional play, and seems pretty satisfied with that - which is in line with the message of his dad’s book, really.
Well, iirc, he won the Stamford Fellowship, an award giving to a promising junior player to enable them to spend a year devoted to chess, and was working with coaches and trying to get GM norms, and the latter part did not go very well. I think in his book he said that he was burned out and that the pressure to win, starting from being the Elementary School National Champion, had been a lot for all his life, and then the movie made that situation much worse, where a lot of people seemed to think that he actually was supposed to be the next Fischer, instead of what he really was, a talented young player whose sportswriter father had decided that his book about competitive chess and chess parenting needed a good hook title. All of this became, it seems, a pretty unfulfilling situation, and good for him for leaving it behind and finding success and happiness elsewhere.
posted by thelonius at 11:27 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Well, iirc, he won the Stamford Fellowship, an award giving to a promising junior player to enable them to spend a year devoted to chess, and was working with coaches and trying to get GM norms, and the latter part did not go very well. I think in his book he said that he was burned out and that the pressure to win, starting from being the Elementary School National Champion, had been a lot for all his life, and then the movie made that situation much worse, where a lot of people seemed to think that he actually was supposed to be the next Fischer, instead of what he really was, a talented young player whose sportswriter father had decided that his book about competitive chess and chess parenting needed a good hook title. All of this became, it seems, a pretty unfulfilling situation, and good for him for leaving it behind and finding success and happiness elsewhere.
posted by thelonius at 11:27 AM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Want to add: I would like to see far more single season, limited run series with quality like this than multi-season shows that might get cancelled halfway through. This show was exactly as long as it needed to be—and that's a wonderful thing in and of itself.
posted by SoberHighland at 11:30 AM on November 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by SoberHighland at 11:30 AM on November 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
Is a state chess tournament in Kentucky REALLY being held in a super swanky, mid-century modern, ultra-glamourous hotel?
Am I misremembering, or didn't the Kentucky State Championships take place in a high school gym? The US Championships took place in a dingy college auditorium room with like four tables on the stage and like 5 people in the audience. The New York Times reviewer even makes a special point about how realistic that was for the time (the show commented on it as well, through Benny).
Would she REALLY have 10 different, perfectly coordinated outfits for her trips?
It's absolutely an indulgence from the costuming department (some of those outfits are really something!) but to be fair the show makes a point of this as well. There's a whole bit at the end about how she can't afford to travel to the final game because she's spent too much money on clothes. The show also makes a point of this earlier, the first time she starts getting money, she spends it on clothes and a chess set. It makes a lot of psychological sense for her character, growing up in poverty and then in an orphanage with a mandatory uniform.
posted by gkhan at 11:33 AM on November 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
Am I misremembering, or didn't the Kentucky State Championships take place in a high school gym? The US Championships took place in a dingy college auditorium room with like four tables on the stage and like 5 people in the audience. The New York Times reviewer even makes a special point about how realistic that was for the time (the show commented on it as well, through Benny).
Would she REALLY have 10 different, perfectly coordinated outfits for her trips?
It's absolutely an indulgence from the costuming department (some of those outfits are really something!) but to be fair the show makes a point of this as well. There's a whole bit at the end about how she can't afford to travel to the final game because she's spent too much money on clothes. The show also makes a point of this earlier, the first time she starts getting money, she spends it on clothes and a chess set. It makes a lot of psychological sense for her character, growing up in poverty and then in an orphanage with a mandatory uniform.
posted by gkhan at 11:33 AM on November 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
gkhan: you are correct...not all the tournaments were in glamorous hotels. I am wrong. But there was a surfeit of uber-swank locales in the show overall. On re-reading my comment, it comes across as too harsh. I very much enjoyed the show.
posted by SoberHighland at 11:36 AM on November 5, 2020
posted by SoberHighland at 11:36 AM on November 5, 2020
not all the tournaments were in glamorous hotels
In the mid to late 70s in England, chess had a surge of popularity (driven mostly by Bobby Fischer's successes, and later by Britain's first grandmaster, the late Tony Miles). It was by no means big business, but there was plenty of sponsorship money. I remember playing in the 'National Bank of Dubai Open' at the sumptuous, olde-worlde Piccadilly Hotel, and in another open tournament in the ballroom of what used to be the Cunard Hotel in Hammersmith, which was said to have the largest unsupported ceiling of any ballroom in the world at that time.
County chess matches, meanwhile, tended to take place at St Bride's Institute, a run-down building off Fleet Street with the gloomiest lighting I've ever experienced in my life. It was like the school hall from Hell - complete with the troll-like caretaker who, if your game was one of the last to finish, would arrive and start circling round and round the room, grinning and jangling his enormous bunch of keys.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 11:59 AM on November 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
In the mid to late 70s in England, chess had a surge of popularity (driven mostly by Bobby Fischer's successes, and later by Britain's first grandmaster, the late Tony Miles). It was by no means big business, but there was plenty of sponsorship money. I remember playing in the 'National Bank of Dubai Open' at the sumptuous, olde-worlde Piccadilly Hotel, and in another open tournament in the ballroom of what used to be the Cunard Hotel in Hammersmith, which was said to have the largest unsupported ceiling of any ballroom in the world at that time.
County chess matches, meanwhile, tended to take place at St Bride's Institute, a run-down building off Fleet Street with the gloomiest lighting I've ever experienced in my life. It was like the school hall from Hell - complete with the troll-like caretaker who, if your game was one of the last to finish, would arrive and start circling round and round the room, grinning and jangling his enormous bunch of keys.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 11:59 AM on November 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
My 12 year old loved it, and now we have a new chess set and some books en route.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:07 PM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by leotrotsky at 12:07 PM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
not all the tournaments were in glamorous hotels
🎵 One Night in Bangkok ... 🎶
posted by exogenous at 12:24 PM on November 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
🎵 One Night in Bangkok ... 🎶
posted by exogenous at 12:24 PM on November 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
Pandolfini has experience as a film advisor; I think he worked on the 90's film "Searching For Bobby Fischer", which also pulled off (as TQG seems to have done) the difficult trick of making a chess film interesting to a general audience.
Bruce and Josh were both advisors on the movie. They came up with the chess movies and all. Josh was mostly grown by the time the movie came out of course.
There are places online you can play against other people:
Internet Chess Club
Free Internet Chess Server
Both allow you to log in through your browser, or you can download special clients.
Do post your reviews in the FanFare thread.
posted by Fukiyama at 12:35 PM on November 5, 2020
Bruce and Josh were both advisors on the movie. They came up with the chess movies and all. Josh was mostly grown by the time the movie came out of course.
There are places online you can play against other people:
Internet Chess Club
Free Internet Chess Server
Both allow you to log in through your browser, or you can download special clients.
Do post your reviews in the FanFare thread.
posted by Fukiyama at 12:35 PM on November 5, 2020
I thought it was a remarkably well-constructed and rewarding show, save for the painfully clumsy reappearance of Jolene in the final episode. It was shocking to see such a clumsily-handled "black best friend" character show up to provide emotional support just when the white girl needs her to in a show debuting in 2020. I would have thought they'd at least try to lampshade it a little bit.
I think they thought they were making it OK by having Jolene say something like, "No, I'm not your fairy godmother," which to me made it obvious they knew it was a problem and were just doing some cya.
posted by BibiRose at 12:37 PM on November 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
I think they thought they were making it OK by having Jolene say something like, "No, I'm not your fairy godmother," which to me made it obvious they knew it was a problem and were just doing some cya.
posted by BibiRose at 12:37 PM on November 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
There are places online you can play against other people
If I may add the excellent lichess.org to that list.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:51 PM on November 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
If I may add the excellent lichess.org to that list.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:51 PM on November 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
> Is this show age-appropriate for an 11yr old ?
The strong female lead is great to watch, but be prepared to hear the word c***suck*r at least twice in the first episode, as well as a literal description of what one is.
posted by hydra77 at 1:32 PM on November 5, 2020
The strong female lead is great to watch, but be prepared to hear the word c***suck*r at least twice in the first episode, as well as a literal description of what one is.
posted by hydra77 at 1:32 PM on November 5, 2020
I was frustrated by how gorgeous the lead actress was, given that in the book, it is repeatedly emphasized that the protagonist is plain.
posted by prefpara at 2:39 PM on November 5, 2020
posted by prefpara at 2:39 PM on November 5, 2020
If I may add the excellent lichess.org to that list.
Yeah lichess is the place I’d send people: it’s free, popular with a range of players, accessible both in-browser and as a mobile app, and very well built.
posted by atoxyl at 2:51 PM on November 5, 2020
Yeah lichess is the place I’d send people: it’s free, popular with a range of players, accessible both in-browser and as a mobile app, and very well built.
posted by atoxyl at 2:51 PM on November 5, 2020
"Is this show age-appropriate for an 11yr old?"
Your 11-year-old may have more willpower than I do, in which case, fine, go for it, it's a great story about a kid who figures out her life and doesn't get stopped by anything and the clothes are awesome and so is the wallpaper. Just know this, though:
I want those pills, now.
I want to go back in time to a fictional 1960s where I can be violently and horribly orphaned and have my dress with my mom's beautiful, loving embroidery of my name on it taken out of my hands and burnt by my heartless guardian and then spend my lonely tweens lovelessly in a drafty old building watching everyone around me be adopted into loving families. I would gladly accept all this just so I could get at that huge jar of beautiful candy-looking magic pills that don't match any real-life pills because they get you high as hell but also allow you to with barely any effort learn chess and map out a wildly successful future for yourself merely by lying back and passively gazing at the ceiling of your bedroom*.
That was my main problem with the show. It's the beautiful green pills that make her magically smart. But they're benzos or something, right? So... a. hah? How would that ever work? And b. what the hell kind of YA book is this? Naw, stay away from benzodiazapines, kids! You may need some pharmacological assistance to work effectively, but afaik it isn't that stuff, and whatever it is you should take it as directed by a qualified physician, not by the other abused pre-teens at the appallingly abusive orphanage.
*Or any ceiling, as long as it is not obscured by the canopy on a girlbed.
posted by Don Pepino at 2:54 PM on November 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
Your 11-year-old may have more willpower than I do, in which case, fine, go for it, it's a great story about a kid who figures out her life and doesn't get stopped by anything and the clothes are awesome and so is the wallpaper. Just know this, though:
I want those pills, now.
I want to go back in time to a fictional 1960s where I can be violently and horribly orphaned and have my dress with my mom's beautiful, loving embroidery of my name on it taken out of my hands and burnt by my heartless guardian and then spend my lonely tweens lovelessly in a drafty old building watching everyone around me be adopted into loving families. I would gladly accept all this just so I could get at that huge jar of beautiful candy-looking magic pills that don't match any real-life pills because they get you high as hell but also allow you to with barely any effort learn chess and map out a wildly successful future for yourself merely by lying back and passively gazing at the ceiling of your bedroom*.
That was my main problem with the show. It's the beautiful green pills that make her magically smart. But they're benzos or something, right? So... a. hah? How would that ever work? And b. what the hell kind of YA book is this? Naw, stay away from benzodiazapines, kids! You may need some pharmacological assistance to work effectively, but afaik it isn't that stuff, and whatever it is you should take it as directed by a qualified physician, not by the other abused pre-teens at the appallingly abusive orphanage.
*Or any ceiling, as long as it is not obscured by the canopy on a girlbed.
posted by Don Pepino at 2:54 PM on November 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
I would gladly accept all this just so I could get at that huge jar of beautiful candy-looking magic pills that don't match any real-life pills because they get you high as hell but also allow you to with barely any effort learn chess and map out a wildly successful future for yourself merely by lying back and passively gazing at the ceiling of your bedroom*.
They helped get Beth into a state where she could work chess problems smoothly, seeing the moves. But she learned chess by observation after it was shown that she was a math prodigy first, having inherited her PhD mother's math genius.
posted by Fukiyama at 3:25 PM on November 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
They helped get Beth into a state where she could work chess problems smoothly, seeing the moves. But she learned chess by observation after it was shown that she was a math prodigy first, having inherited her PhD mother's math genius.
posted by Fukiyama at 3:25 PM on November 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
You don’t have to have the skills of Beth Harmon or even a strong player to enjoy chess at a more serious level than casual games. Online chess sites like lichess.org and chess.com match you with players at your skill level and have players at ever level. If you are just starting our and want to get better start by committing to doing 10-15 minutes of puzzles every day or in your spare time. If you get the lichess app you can do unlimited free tactics. As you do puzzles you will improve. Studying openings and end games or other stuff you hear is something you can also do; but the easiest way to get better is puzzles. Most puzzles can be solved by following some simple steps: what is your opponent threatening. What are their captures, checks and forcing moves. What captures, checks and forcing moves can you make. Eventually as you solve more puzzles you’ll develop the pattern recognition that will enable you to begin to setup tactics and avoid your opponents tricks when you play. Gradually you will get better and better.
posted by interogative mood at 3:29 PM on November 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 3:29 PM on November 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
I have accounts on both FICS and lichess, and lichess is where all my online play happens at present. It's really good.
Its training page is a great resource, useful to players of all skill levels including none. You don't even need a lichess account to start using it, though I expect you'll grab one fairly quickly once you have.
I've also learned a lot by watching agadmator and GM Ben Finegold on YouTube. Both are active on lichess.
posted by flabdablet at 3:31 PM on November 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
Its training page is a great resource, useful to players of all skill levels including none. You don't even need a lichess account to start using it, though I expect you'll grab one fairly quickly once you have.
I've also learned a lot by watching agadmator and GM Ben Finegold on YouTube. Both are active on lichess.
posted by flabdablet at 3:31 PM on November 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
The main thing that really, really bothered me about this show. And sends a terrible message to kids—or anyone, really:
They brushed off the substance abuse angle so easily. The whole show for the first several episodes was about her taking pills/drinking to "get into the zone" and about her stealing drugs and drinking, etc as a real habit. Then suddenly? **Poof** she just "stops" using substances!
As a former alcohol abuser, I found that downright terrible in message and intent. And just shitty writing. Substance abuse does not work that way, and to set up several hours and multiple plot points around the issue just to hand-wave it away was appalling.
(but I'll add one last time that I enjoyed the show as escapism)
posted by SoberHighland at 3:34 PM on November 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
They brushed off the substance abuse angle so easily. The whole show for the first several episodes was about her taking pills/drinking to "get into the zone" and about her stealing drugs and drinking, etc as a real habit. Then suddenly? **Poof** she just "stops" using substances!
As a former alcohol abuser, I found that downright terrible in message and intent. And just shitty writing. Substance abuse does not work that way, and to set up several hours and multiple plot points around the issue just to hand-wave it away was appalling.
(but I'll add one last time that I enjoyed the show as escapism)
posted by SoberHighland at 3:34 PM on November 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
^ I agree with Don Pepino, the show almost seems to romanticize substance abuse, which is also a feature in many Walter Tevis novels, he deals with the problems of addiction while also swimming in the deadly allure. Watching it reminded me how easy it is to abuse tranquilizers, which can be fun but actually make you stupid and don't magically make you play 4th dimensional chess in real life.
That said, I'm a fan of Tevis, this show is genius and I loved it, they didn't screw up his story too much, and they added some wonderful visual flourishes. This is the best original Netflix series that I've ever seen so far*(tied for first place with 'The Get Down'). So the chess-tech-advice not bungling the chess practices (too much, I don't expect perfection) is added bonus.
(so while we're here, a little diversion: classic vintage web-art My Obsession with Chess note the frame for the Queen's Gambit.)
posted by ovvl at 4:02 PM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
That said, I'm a fan of Tevis, this show is genius and I loved it, they didn't screw up his story too much, and they added some wonderful visual flourishes. This is the best original Netflix series that I've ever seen so far*(tied for first place with 'The Get Down'). So the chess-tech-advice not bungling the chess practices (too much, I don't expect perfection) is added bonus.
(so while we're here, a little diversion: classic vintage web-art My Obsession with Chess note the frame for the Queen's Gambit.)
posted by ovvl at 4:02 PM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
there are a ton of excellent resources for chess players who wish to improve, at all levels, on Youtube, as well: John Bartholemew, for example, has an excellent series about chess basics (keeping your pieces safe, getting them active, things like that)
posted by thelonius at 4:39 PM on November 5, 2020
posted by thelonius at 4:39 PM on November 5, 2020
If you like Queens Gambit let me recommend Chess Bitch by Jen Shahade. Jen is a real life red haired chess prodigy who has gone on to being successful as a chess commentator and professional poker player . You might also like Sasha Chapin’s All The Wrong Moves a book about what its like for those of us who have the chess obsession but not the skills.
posted by interogative mood at 4:46 PM on November 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 4:46 PM on November 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
Substance abuse does not work that way, and to set up several hours and multiple plot points around the issue just to hand-wave it away was appalling.
Alcohol and chess do not work like that either
posted by thelonius at 5:08 PM on November 5, 2020
Alcohol and chess do not work like that either
posted by thelonius at 5:08 PM on November 5, 2020
I thought it was subtle but they showed that she got even better at chess whenever she wasn't abusing drugs and alcohol. Like when she got to Russia, she played way above her previous level -- nobody had expected her to beat even the lower-level Russian players. I read this as implying that the needing drugs to play was either self-medicating anxiety or, later, just completely fooling herself.
posted by vogon_poet at 5:09 PM on November 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by vogon_poet at 5:09 PM on November 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
I read this as implying that the needing drugs to play was either self-medicating anxiety or, later, just completely fooling herself.
I got that too. But being hooked on booze and Benzos from age 8 to age 25 (or however old she was supposed to be at that point) is gonna make for a really, really hard time quitting. Not just a bad hangover, either. And they really hammered home the fact that she was self medicating a lot, at every opportunity, for several episodes.
posted by SoberHighland at 6:09 PM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
I got that too. But being hooked on booze and Benzos from age 8 to age 25 (or however old she was supposed to be at that point) is gonna make for a really, really hard time quitting. Not just a bad hangover, either. And they really hammered home the fact that she was self medicating a lot, at every opportunity, for several episodes.
posted by SoberHighland at 6:09 PM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
I just finished watching this today and I loved so much of it. The scene of the chess tournament in episode 5 was put together so beautifully I already rewatched it twice. And all of the performances were just lovely.
Would she REALLY have 10 different, perfectly coordinated outfits for her trips?
I wouldn't have minded that so much (I'll never say no to more outfits), but they kept showing her going to and from the trips carrying this tiny suitcase and I'm sorry, that's some serious Hermione Granger bag of holding.
posted by Mchelly at 6:10 PM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
Would she REALLY have 10 different, perfectly coordinated outfits for her trips?
I wouldn't have minded that so much (I'll never say no to more outfits), but they kept showing her going to and from the trips carrying this tiny suitcase and I'm sorry, that's some serious Hermione Granger bag of holding.
posted by Mchelly at 6:10 PM on November 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
As a superfan of the novel, I was predisposed to nitpick the show. But I was pleasantly surprised. For importantly, I thought the show captured the essential genius, stubbornness, and solitude of Beth Harmon. I also thought the chess scenes were uniformly excellent, except maybe the tourney scene where Beth is doing a voiceover.
I didn't love the slow pace of the series, especially since the novel is a page-turner. Like others, I thought the earlier episodes were better than the later episodes.
I also felt like there Beth's relationships with men were somewhat overemphasized, that Beth was way too glam, and that some of the adult scenes with Beth and Jolene were grating. The tone of the later episodes became way too YA, which the book is definitely not.
posted by lumpy at 6:11 PM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
I didn't love the slow pace of the series, especially since the novel is a page-turner. Like others, I thought the earlier episodes were better than the later episodes.
I also felt like there Beth's relationships with men were somewhat overemphasized, that Beth was way too glam, and that some of the adult scenes with Beth and Jolene were grating. The tone of the later episodes became way too YA, which the book is definitely not.
posted by lumpy at 6:11 PM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
btw, random fact — Beth’s mom was specifically a group theorist — there is a brief shot of her bound dissertation.
posted by vogon_poet at 8:16 PM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by vogon_poet at 8:16 PM on November 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you like Queens Gambit let me recommend Chess Bitch by Jen Shahade.
Also look up Judit Polgár (the undisputed best female competitive chess player to date) and her sisters. Different sort of story, but very interesting story - their father decided to raise his daughters as chess prodigies to prove that it could be done... and it worked.
posted by atoxyl at 11:02 PM on November 5, 2020
Also look up Judit Polgár (the undisputed best female competitive chess player to date) and her sisters. Different sort of story, but very interesting story - their father decided to raise his daughters as chess prodigies to prove that it could be done... and it worked.
posted by atoxyl at 11:02 PM on November 5, 2020
I watched it and liked it, but it was a bit slow. Could have been cut in half.
posted by AugustWest at 11:08 PM on November 5, 2020
posted by AugustWest at 11:08 PM on November 5, 2020
They helped get Beth into a state where she could work chess problems smoothly, seeing the moves.
Uh-huh, I didn't miss that part. That's in fact the part I've got beef with. Is that how downers work? If so, why aren't they administered to genius children in the real world outside fictional horror orphanages?
they kept showing her going to and from the trips carrying this tiny suitcase
That's because everywhere she went she shopped and mailed everything home--an upmarket version of the thing I used to do in The Before Times when I'd get a ton of dollar-a-pound stuff off the basement floor of The Garment District in MA and mail it all back to FL.
it was a bit slow.
?
!
Were you just not even looking at the sets and the costumes?
Could have been cut in half.
Not without the criminal sacrifice of outfits and wall treatments.
posted by Don Pepino at 2:52 AM on November 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Uh-huh, I didn't miss that part. That's in fact the part I've got beef with. Is that how downers work? If so, why aren't they administered to genius children in the real world outside fictional horror orphanages?
they kept showing her going to and from the trips carrying this tiny suitcase
That's because everywhere she went she shopped and mailed everything home--an upmarket version of the thing I used to do in The Before Times when I'd get a ton of dollar-a-pound stuff off the basement floor of The Garment District in MA and mail it all back to FL.
it was a bit slow.
?
!
Were you just not even looking at the sets and the costumes?
Could have been cut in half.
Not without the criminal sacrifice of outfits and wall treatments.
posted by Don Pepino at 2:52 AM on November 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
I got stuck on the meds issue too. Given the time period, I think they could have been benzos, barbiturates, or first-generation antipsychotics, all of which were abused in some real-world institutions to keep patients docile.
I don't think any of them would have normally helped anyone learn chess. All three are famous for causing cognitive problems, including poor concentration and memory loss. Unlike, say, cannabis or opioids, none are usually associated with a more vivid imagination.
On the other hand, untreated mood disorders (which Beth might have had) or unprocessed trauma (which Beth definitely had, holy fuck, so much of it) can make it real hard to concentrate or remember things too, and getting some relief from them can make it easier.
So I think that's the most likely story: given the chance, she would have been a prodigy without the car crash, but after it she was traumatized enough that being alone with her thoughts was unbearable without drugs — and then she found drugs.
posted by nebulawindphone at 3:52 AM on November 6, 2020
I don't think any of them would have normally helped anyone learn chess. All three are famous for causing cognitive problems, including poor concentration and memory loss. Unlike, say, cannabis or opioids, none are usually associated with a more vivid imagination.
On the other hand, untreated mood disorders (which Beth might have had) or unprocessed trauma (which Beth definitely had, holy fuck, so much of it) can make it real hard to concentrate or remember things too, and getting some relief from them can make it easier.
So I think that's the most likely story: given the chance, she would have been a prodigy without the car crash, but after it she was traumatized enough that being alone with her thoughts was unbearable without drugs — and then she found drugs.
posted by nebulawindphone at 3:52 AM on November 6, 2020
I think they were Librium, which really did come in green and white capsules. I think the doctor in Mexico mentions it by name at some point.
posted by vogon_poet at 7:42 AM on November 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by vogon_poet at 7:42 AM on November 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Ooh, well spotted. Ok, so yeah, a benzo.
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:55 AM on November 6, 2020
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:55 AM on November 6, 2020
I enjoyed this a lot.. I know basically nothing about chess, and I think they did a great job of conveying the feel and tension of the matches even to someone like me who has no idea of what is going on. But I'm glad to hear that even for people who know how to play chess, it sounds like they did a pretty credible job with it.
On the other hand, untreated mood disorders (which Beth might have had) or unprocessed trauma (which Beth definitely had, holy fuck, so much of it) can make it real hard to concentrate or remember things too, and getting some relief from them can make it easier.
Yes, this is ultimately my read of it as well. From personal experience, while benzos and similar meds can dull thinking, anxiety and trauma just completely trash my ability to process information. And taking meds that turn down that volume on anxiety helps mitigate those cognitive issues.
I felt like it did drag a bit in the middle, and I wish they had made more of an attempt to show how Beth overcame her substance abuse issues/trauma. I get that this isn't the kind of series that was going to send Beth off to therapy for 2 years or something, but I didn't like how they basically just had Jolene swoop in and suddenly fix things.
I like Jolene a lot, but it honestly might have been better to just not have her character come back at all.
Or maybe to focus more on the fact that having Jolene show up reminded Beth she does have a support network/family.
But still, I enjoyed this series a lot. I binged it over the last few days, and it was a really welcome distraction from real life/the election.
posted by litera scripta manet at 8:49 AM on November 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
On the other hand, untreated mood disorders (which Beth might have had) or unprocessed trauma (which Beth definitely had, holy fuck, so much of it) can make it real hard to concentrate or remember things too, and getting some relief from them can make it easier.
Yes, this is ultimately my read of it as well. From personal experience, while benzos and similar meds can dull thinking, anxiety and trauma just completely trash my ability to process information. And taking meds that turn down that volume on anxiety helps mitigate those cognitive issues.
I felt like it did drag a bit in the middle, and I wish they had made more of an attempt to show how Beth overcame her substance abuse issues/trauma. I get that this isn't the kind of series that was going to send Beth off to therapy for 2 years or something, but I didn't like how they basically just had Jolene swoop in and suddenly fix things.
I like Jolene a lot, but it honestly might have been better to just not have her character come back at all.
Or maybe to focus more on the fact that having Jolene show up reminded Beth she does have a support network/family.
But still, I enjoyed this series a lot. I binged it over the last few days, and it was a really welcome distraction from real life/the election.
posted by litera scripta manet at 8:49 AM on November 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Also look up Judit Polgár (the undisputed best female competitive chess player to date) and her sisters. Different sort of story, but very interesting story - their father decided to raise his daughters as chess prodigies to prove that it could be done... and it worked.
I wonder how they have reacted to this. I used to have a link to one of the sisters' blog.
posted by Fukiyama at 9:04 AM on November 6, 2020
I wonder how they have reacted to this. I used to have a link to one of the sisters' blog.
posted by Fukiyama at 9:04 AM on November 6, 2020
CNN: This Netflix hit is now our universal escape hatch
posted by Fukiyama at 10:54 AM on November 15, 2020
In today's landscape of apparently infinite streaming options, it's rare to find a show absolutely everyone seems to be watching. But Netflix chess drama "The Queen's Gambit" has bucked the trend, staying atop the platform's US Top 10 list since Oct. 25, two days after its release. [This was written on Sunday 11/15.] If you're not watching it yet, I bet someone's told you that you should be.NME: Netflix show ‘The Queen’s Gambit’ sparks huge surge in chess set sales
eBay has now revealed that the website saw a 273% surge in searches for chess sets over the first 10 days of the show being released on Netflix.BuzzFeedNews: There’s A Very Good Reason Why Everyone Is Watching “The Queen’s Gambit”
Last week, in the middle of the pandemonium of the presidential election, stray tweets and Instagram stories raving about Netflix’s The Queen’s Gambit started to take over my feeds. The president of the United States was undermining faith in the democratic process, and these folks were tweeting about a show about chess? What the hell was going on?Has the story of Beth Harmon been watercooler talk for you all since late October? Been playing any chess?
posted by Fukiyama at 10:54 AM on November 15, 2020
I thought about it when I watched it at first, but I don't have anyone to play with in semi-lockdown - and I feel like anyone who plays online would cream me so thoroughly as to remove any interest. But it did pique my curiosity. I'll probably ask a certain friend who plays casually for a few games after this is over (whenever that is).
A few years ago I heard of a chess app where you're given a semi-random assortment of pieces, weighted to your experience level (so beginners might get multiple queens, etc). Something about that is more interesting to me, because the extremely regimented learning of openings which seems necessary for any level of chess skill doesn't sound so fun. Maybe I'll see if I can find that game...
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:26 AM on November 15, 2020
A few years ago I heard of a chess app where you're given a semi-random assortment of pieces, weighted to your experience level (so beginners might get multiple queens, etc). Something about that is more interesting to me, because the extremely regimented learning of openings which seems necessary for any level of chess skill doesn't sound so fun. Maybe I'll see if I can find that game...
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:26 AM on November 15, 2020
showbiz_liz, any of the online chess servers mentioned so far allow you to pick and choose who you play based on your rating. For instance, on lichess.org, even if you aren't registered, your rating is a base 1500. If you create a game, there are sliders for you to move both above and below that number so that for instance, if you move the slider above all the way back, no one above 1500 will see your game and only those rated lower than you are will see it on the list of those waiting to play.
posted by Fukiyama at 2:32 PM on November 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Fukiyama at 2:32 PM on November 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
US Chess Federation makes their Queen's Gambit cover story issue (pdf) of Chess Life free.
posted by thelonius at 4:09 AM on November 18, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 4:09 AM on November 18, 2020 [2 favorites]
Its kind of funny that Beth Harmon is addicted to tranquilizers when all chess players have been legendary for their addictions to various stimulants. I'm not sure how many of the top players take adderal or other "study" drugs, but at tournaments you see guys drinking a lot of coffee, smoking /vaping. Hikaru Nakamura, a famous American player / chess streamer was sponsored by Red Bull for a number of years. Technically FIDE is under WADA (world anti-doping) regulations; so stimulants like Adderal are banned, but of course its fairly easy to get around that with a medical exemption, and I don't think FIDE has ever done actual drug testing of players.
posted by interogative mood at 7:02 AM on November 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by interogative mood at 7:02 AM on November 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
The series is still doing well. It hasn't left the top five on Netflix since its initial move to number one at the end of October.
The Guardian has a nice round-up on the different reasons the series has become Netflix's most watched scripted limited series (according to recently introduced metrics), mentioning all the details: the fashion, the wallpaper, the portrayal of chess, and Anya Taylor-Joy's performance.
According to NPR, those watchers are then going out and snapping up chess sets in record numbers.
posted by Fukiyama at 1:27 PM on November 26, 2020
The Guardian has a nice round-up on the different reasons the series has become Netflix's most watched scripted limited series (according to recently introduced metrics), mentioning all the details: the fashion, the wallpaper, the portrayal of chess, and Anya Taylor-Joy's performance.
According to NPR, those watchers are then going out and snapping up chess sets in record numbers.
posted by Fukiyama at 1:27 PM on November 26, 2020
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posted by jacquilynne at 6:47 AM on November 5, 2020 [23 favorites]