Generation 9
November 7, 2020 8:31 AM Subscribe
The long-awaited updates to the Xbox and Playstation are out this month. While both consoles have been praised for their jump in performance, the Xbox Series X (Digital Foundry, Polygon) boasts expansive backwards compatibility, Quick Resume game switching, and the popular Game Pass subscription; and the Playstation 5 (Digital Foundry, Polygon) has a “revolutionary” new haptic DualSense controller and highly-rated launch titles including the pack-in controller showcase Astro’s Playroom and Spider-Man: Miles Morales.
FTTP (First Time to Play) setup is absolutely a pain. I feel bad for parents who don't know to update consoles and games before Christmas morning, for example. But once that's done, in my experience TTP is ~30 seconds if I'm continuing a game (i.e. Overwatch on an Xbox One X). Switching games takes longer, so I'm looking forward to Quick Resume!
posted by ArmandoAkimbo at 9:58 AM on November 7, 2020
posted by ArmandoAkimbo at 9:58 AM on November 7, 2020
geoff.: That feels like a very glass-half-empty way of looking at it. Stipulating there are privacy and UX problems with internet-connected consoles, they are trying hard to fix these TTP issues. In fact, you could argue the new consoles are entirely designed around this problem, what with the ultra-fast SSDs. And I think both consoles let you do pretty much everything via smartphone apps, including signing in (using a QR code); updates, installs, deletions, etc, can be started by app and while the console is asleep, etc etc.
The new Spider-Man game starts up in 3 seconds. I mean, that’s incredible. You can jump into specific levels right from the console home screen. Quick Resume lets you switch between five games within a few seconds each – that’s faster than swapping cartridges. It’s not all bad.
posted by adrianhon at 9:59 AM on November 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
The new Spider-Man game starts up in 3 seconds. I mean, that’s incredible. You can jump into specific levels right from the console home screen. Quick Resume lets you switch between five games within a few seconds each – that’s faster than swapping cartridges. It’s not all bad.
posted by adrianhon at 9:59 AM on November 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
Console players: Enjoy the SSDs. Greatest upgrade ever.
I think it's going to be quite some time before there's a critical mass of exclusive games that actually take advantage of the new machines. Like a LONG time. Between COVID and ballooning production costs and publishers trying to send out one huge game a year instead of multiple smaller ones. So it's nice that there's something on there that makes existing evergreen games play better across the board.
posted by selfnoise at 11:03 AM on November 7, 2020
I think it's going to be quite some time before there's a critical mass of exclusive games that actually take advantage of the new machines. Like a LONG time. Between COVID and ballooning production costs and publishers trying to send out one huge game a year instead of multiple smaller ones. So it's nice that there's something on there that makes existing evergreen games play better across the board.
posted by selfnoise at 11:03 AM on November 7, 2020
Despite having missed out on the, uh, Xbox One generation (PS4 & Switch) and having not been _particularly_ interested in digital releases on the OG and 360, the Xbox Series is looking a lot more interesting to me than the PS5. I'm not entirely sure why - I half suspect it's just first mover advantage? MS got the review units out earlier, so I saw more interactions? The wholehearted embrace of backwards compatibility? Like, huh, $500 gets me a box that lets me play all (mostly all, sure OK) these old green-cased games on my shelves? Hrrm.
Honestly I'm sort of waiting for the first PS5 refresh, like the PS5 Slim where ok sure it's still the size of a 1980's VCR but doesn't attempt to be a swoopy art piece in my entertainment center. At least the Series X is either an unassuming white rectangle or a relatively unassuming black monolith. I understand they're as big as they are so their cooling doesn't need to be datacenter grade, and I appreciate that, but I only have so much room in my entertainment center, guys.
But yeah, I'm excited that consoles are recognizing that modern MFA authentication is sort of a pain in the ass through a controller, and allowing us to maintain persistent auth on secondary devices (phones, computers, whatever) and use that to authenticate into the system? Heavenly.
And if QR means I don't have to have the dozen-ish watt console in "sleep" mode to have a decent TTP? That's also a goodness.
posted by Kyol at 11:22 AM on November 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
Honestly I'm sort of waiting for the first PS5 refresh, like the PS5 Slim where ok sure it's still the size of a 1980's VCR but doesn't attempt to be a swoopy art piece in my entertainment center. At least the Series X is either an unassuming white rectangle or a relatively unassuming black monolith. I understand they're as big as they are so their cooling doesn't need to be datacenter grade, and I appreciate that, but I only have so much room in my entertainment center, guys.
But yeah, I'm excited that consoles are recognizing that modern MFA authentication is sort of a pain in the ass through a controller, and allowing us to maintain persistent auth on secondary devices (phones, computers, whatever) and use that to authenticate into the system? Heavenly.
And if QR means I don't have to have the dozen-ish watt console in "sleep" mode to have a decent TTP? That's also a goodness.
posted by Kyol at 11:22 AM on November 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
I've got an XBox Series X coming on Tuesday, and I've taken the next two days after that off from work so I can really get into enjoying it. I bought a 4K TV earlier this year right towards the beginning of the first UK lockdown, so I"m really excited to see some next-gen graphics.
Also, on the one hand I'm really looking forward to getting a new console, and on the other I'm feeling really old because this is going to be the first console I've owned from new since *maybe* the first Playstation.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 11:35 AM on November 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
Also, on the one hand I'm really looking forward to getting a new console, and on the other I'm feeling really old because this is going to be the first console I've owned from new since *maybe* the first Playstation.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 11:35 AM on November 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
Honestly I'm sort of waiting for the first PS5 refresh, like the PS5 Slim where ok sure it's still the size of a 1980's VCR but doesn't attempt to be a swoopy art piece in my entertainment center.
Yeah, best thing I did was run CAT6 with these. I don't need a giant video game system defining my living room. More importantly I can take the Frankenstein design choices from each media device I spend too much money on and shove them all in a network closet.
posted by geoff. at 11:47 AM on November 7, 2020
Yeah, best thing I did was run CAT6 with these. I don't need a giant video game system defining my living room. More importantly I can take the Frankenstein design choices from each media device I spend too much money on and shove them all in a network closet.
posted by geoff. at 11:47 AM on November 7, 2020
When will stores have them, though? They seem alright but it's purely theoretical if nobody has one in stock.
posted by abackstrom at 2:23 PM on November 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by abackstrom at 2:23 PM on November 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
My understanding is that online stores will have them all on launch day. Then if it's anything like previous times around, they'll arrive in batches that last longer, until eventually they're just available. Probably a couple of months before then. Could be longer. Wii took years.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 2:37 PM on November 7, 2020
posted by inpHilltr8r at 2:37 PM on November 7, 2020
I'm a PS guy, but I absolutely detest the swoopy, overly-designed, flavor of the month look of the PS5. I don't care about its size, as it will sit underneath my desk with plenty of airflow on all sides and it won';t really be all that visible. But—my god—did they screw up the design on this thing. Upon first glance my immediate thought was "this will look outdated in about six months" and honestly, it already looks outdated to me.
I haven't looked closely at the ports and such. But even the PS4 Pro was poorly designed from a basic setup standpoint. For reasons, I need to switch the HDMI cable from the back of my PS4 Pro once per week, and I literally need to take a flashlight under the desk with me EVERY TIME to do this. And I fumble with it and swear about it weekly. The back of the console is slanted—purely for design reasons— which makes plugging in an HDMI cable an act of skill, even for a person like me without any ability/mobility issues. It's ridiculously fiddly to get it lined up right, and I've been doing this once a week for months now. It's a pain in the ass every. single. time.
On the plus side, I find the PS5 controller to resemble a porpoise, which is sort of neat. Sort of.
posted by SoberHighland at 9:52 AM on November 8, 2020
I haven't looked closely at the ports and such. But even the PS4 Pro was poorly designed from a basic setup standpoint. For reasons, I need to switch the HDMI cable from the back of my PS4 Pro once per week, and I literally need to take a flashlight under the desk with me EVERY TIME to do this. And I fumble with it and swear about it weekly. The back of the console is slanted—purely for design reasons— which makes plugging in an HDMI cable an act of skill, even for a person like me without any ability/mobility issues. It's ridiculously fiddly to get it lined up right, and I've been doing this once a week for months now. It's a pain in the ass every. single. time.
On the plus side, I find the PS5 controller to resemble a porpoise, which is sort of neat. Sort of.
posted by SoberHighland at 9:52 AM on November 8, 2020
I had an Xbox 360. Then I went with a PS4 because they announced Bloodborne. I'm so glad I did. Astoundingly, Xbox this last generation never had a single exclusive that was attractive to me. Not one. PS gets the better exclusive for my tastes. So I'm going for an other PS, but the way things are going, I probably won't get one until February or after.
Besides—memories are short. Remember the Red Ring of Death? It was a console-wide problem that bricked so many thousands of X360s. I had to send back two of them for replacements! Luckily, this did not cost me money, but it was a PITA and I don't want to go through that again. Waiting a few months will let it be clear if any of these new toys have intrinsic problems like this.
posted by SoberHighland at 10:07 AM on November 8, 2020
Besides—memories are short. Remember the Red Ring of Death? It was a console-wide problem that bricked so many thousands of X360s. I had to send back two of them for replacements! Luckily, this did not cost me money, but it was a PITA and I don't want to go through that again. Waiting a few months will let it be clear if any of these new toys have intrinsic problems like this.
posted by SoberHighland at 10:07 AM on November 8, 2020
Isn't the SSD on the PS5 disabled at launch (and was only an optional add-on)?
In the parallel world of PCs, Nvidia's RTX 3xxx (2nd generation with raytracing) release was a total gongshow with very limited availability. A lot of scalpers re-selling at hugely inflated prices.
I reserved in person in a brick and mortar store - joked that Cyberpunk 2077 was delayed again, at least - and the guy basically laughed in my face expecting to get my hands on a card by Dec 10.
Got a call four days later on Nov 2nd and picked up a 3070.
Both the new Xbox and PS supports raytracing - and it's a total game changer.
But the hardware in the consoles lag PC hardware substantially (the reason CP2077 got delayed again was to make it run "acceptably" on last gen - and only that cut-down version will be available to the new gen consoles, until a (potential) future update).
It'll be interesting to see what the hardware texture upscaling performance (DLSS-like) on the consoles are like; on PC in supported games, it's essentially a free 10-20% framerate increase at ultra settings at 1440p.
But yes, a PS5 is $630 CAD (or so) and that 3070 card alone set me back $720 (excluding taxes, environment fees, etc.).
posted by porpoise at 11:17 AM on November 8, 2020
In the parallel world of PCs, Nvidia's RTX 3xxx (2nd generation with raytracing) release was a total gongshow with very limited availability. A lot of scalpers re-selling at hugely inflated prices.
I reserved in person in a brick and mortar store - joked that Cyberpunk 2077 was delayed again, at least - and the guy basically laughed in my face expecting to get my hands on a card by Dec 10.
Got a call four days later on Nov 2nd and picked up a 3070.
Both the new Xbox and PS supports raytracing - and it's a total game changer.
But the hardware in the consoles lag PC hardware substantially (the reason CP2077 got delayed again was to make it run "acceptably" on last gen - and only that cut-down version will be available to the new gen consoles, until a (potential) future update).
It'll be interesting to see what the hardware texture upscaling performance (DLSS-like) on the consoles are like; on PC in supported games, it's essentially a free 10-20% framerate increase at ultra settings at 1440p.
But yes, a PS5 is $630 CAD (or so) and that 3070 card alone set me back $720 (excluding taxes, environment fees, etc.).
posted by porpoise at 11:17 AM on November 8, 2020
Isn't the SSD on the PS5 disabled at launch (and was only an optional add-on)?
No, the ssd is soldered onto the motherboard (which is its own eventual problem) and is a core part of their plans for the machine.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 11:38 AM on November 8, 2020
No, the ssd is soldered onto the motherboard (which is its own eventual problem) and is a core part of their plans for the machine.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 11:38 AM on November 8, 2020
My bad, I was thinking about the M.2 expansion slot.
posted by porpoise at 11:42 AM on November 8, 2020
posted by porpoise at 11:42 AM on November 8, 2020
there's an expansion port that takes standard drives, but none reach base spec yet AFAIK
posted by inpHilltr8r at 12:25 PM on November 8, 2020
posted by inpHilltr8r at 12:25 PM on November 8, 2020
In theory I'm on the books for a Series X this week but haven't had too many updates. I'm not that fussed to be honest given there's nothing I want to play until Cyberpunk next month (or, y'know, whenever it comes out).
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:04 PM on November 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:04 PM on November 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
I don't see a huge difference between consoles just based on what they've announced. The PS5 controller and game selection seem better, possibly. I am just wondering when the truly great game for this generation will be released, so far there is nothing I've seen that looks like an evolution. Anyone else have their eyes on anything amazing coming out in the next 3 months?
posted by chaz at 3:18 PM on November 8, 2020
posted by chaz at 3:18 PM on November 8, 2020
Anyone else have their eyes on anything amazing coming out in the next 3 months?
To be honest, no, nothing exclusive to this new generation. I doubt we'll get that for another year or so. But PlayStation had better exclusives overall for the PS4/Xbox One generation and I suspect that trend will continue. Series X was just the only one I could get before Christmas (just got the text I can pick it up tomorrow) and as I say above, I wanted something decent to play Cyberpunk on.
posted by turbid dahlia at 5:12 PM on November 8, 2020
To be honest, no, nothing exclusive to this new generation. I doubt we'll get that for another year or so. But PlayStation had better exclusives overall for the PS4/Xbox One generation and I suspect that trend will continue. Series X was just the only one I could get before Christmas (just got the text I can pick it up tomorrow) and as I say above, I wanted something decent to play Cyberpunk on.
posted by turbid dahlia at 5:12 PM on November 8, 2020
Watching MVG's teardown of the Series S makes me wish they'd kept the power brick external and left an optical drive in there for an HD powerhouse. I still don't _really_ see much point in 4k living room gaming - at more than 10' from the screen (and ok with 45 year old eyes), I honestly don't see a fantastic difference between HD and 4k media. Maybe the 9th generation will finally be the thing that puts them over the top? But if you forced me to tell you whether I was playing my PS4 Pro on my 55" 4k living room screen from 10' away or my PS4 base on a 32" HD screen in my bedroom at the foot of my bed I'm not sure I could honestly identify a difference in perceived image quality.
(now, if those were reversed and my 4k screen was at the foot of my bed, even if it's a 32" screen? Maybe.)
posted by Kyol at 6:40 AM on November 9, 2020
(now, if those were reversed and my 4k screen was at the foot of my bed, even if it's a 32" screen? Maybe.)
posted by Kyol at 6:40 AM on November 9, 2020
Geof. how do you manage your controllers with that setup? It fascinates me otherwise!
I skipped bone/ps4 generation, I am very annoyed at PS attitude to backwards compatibility, and this may not change if they continue to be dicks about it. Can I play my games I already bought on this new one?
posted by Iteki at 9:43 AM on November 9, 2020
I skipped bone/ps4 generation, I am very annoyed at PS attitude to backwards compatibility, and this may not change if they continue to be dicks about it. Can I play my games I already bought on this new one?
posted by Iteki at 9:43 AM on November 9, 2020
Kyiv: Yeah, I feel the same way. I’m getting a PS5 and a Series S for Game Pass stuff, and to be honest, I don’t know if I can tell the difference between 4K and 1080p on my pretty-decent TV (let alone the supposed 1440p output from the Series S). I can tell if HDR is on, so I appreciate the Series S supporting it, but I really do think the 4K resolution is going to be pretty marginal for a lot of people.
posted by adrianhon at 11:11 AM on November 9, 2020
posted by adrianhon at 11:11 AM on November 9, 2020
Iteki: Probably? The PS5 supports backwards compatibility for 99% of PS4 games, at least. And judging by reviews, it does a pretty good job at it.
posted by adrianhon at 11:13 AM on November 9, 2020
posted by adrianhon at 11:13 AM on November 9, 2020
Oh, I just saw you skipped the PS4. I don’t know about PS3 but sadly I suspect backwards compatibility to that console is poor if non-existent.
posted by adrianhon at 11:15 AM on November 9, 2020
posted by adrianhon at 11:15 AM on November 9, 2020
Yeah, the PS3 (and to a lesser extent the 360) were really sort of the end of the line for weirdo custom chips doing unusual things that are ultimately pretty difficult to emulate 100%. The PS4 and xbone were more or less just x86 chips and GPUs, so as long as the new chips in the ps5 and xbseries handle the same graphics calls, it's not a huge challenge for them to run the prior generation's games. But the PS3 has no end of weird little sub-CPU functions for handling odd little bits of parallel code that are pretty difficult to properly emulate at a physical level.
Honestly, the xbone's ability to emulate the PPC in the 360 is kind of remarkable.
posted by Kyol at 11:21 AM on November 9, 2020
Honestly, the xbone's ability to emulate the PPC in the 360 is kind of remarkable.
posted by Kyol at 11:21 AM on November 9, 2020
it's not a huge challenge for them to run the prior generation's games
Oh you sweet summer child.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:27 PM on November 9, 2020
Oh you sweet summer child.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:27 PM on November 9, 2020
Please explain - it's my understanding that they share a consistent instruction set and GPU architecture at this point, it seems like all the work would be at the OS level - maintaining the same function calls and security apparatuses.
I mean, compared to having to drop a PS1 CPU in the PS2 as a controller interface for PS1 back compat, and apparently putting rather custom silicon into the PS3's CPU (which, to be fair, was also custom silicon, but the point is that it was in hardware) to enable PS2 back compat, and eventually giving up on that and accepting lesser software emulation towards the end of the PS3 lifespan. Having read up on the challenges inherent in the PS3 CPU, like keeping all the registers synced up in software is still sort of a miracle for current emulators.
I mean, the big schtick with the Xbox One was all the pretty damn incredible work they did with their software emulator for the 360's PPC (which leads to them only supporting 568 titles out of 2084 - not perfect, but still pretty impressive, especially since they're getting graphical improvements in there as well and not just CPU instruction set emulation), but x86 Xbox One to x86 Series X? This does not seem like a huge challenge given that they're coming out of the gate with 90%+ back compatibility. So far as I can tell the only incompatible games require the Kinect, so, fair enough.
Sony is noticeably cagier about their backwards compatibility list, to be fair, but Mark Cerny is claiming "the overwhelming majority" will be playable on the PS5.
I mean, I suppose it's possible that both MS and Sony have sunk tens of thousands of man-hours into bringing their prior generation's APIs into their current hardware, and while that seems to be sort of a badge of pride for MS ("See?! DirectX is awesome!" I expect), Sony really doesn't seem to be interested in sabotaging their tie ratio by providing backwards compatibility. Unless if it wasn't actually a lot of work this time around?
posted by Kyol at 8:02 PM on November 9, 2020
I mean, compared to having to drop a PS1 CPU in the PS2 as a controller interface for PS1 back compat, and apparently putting rather custom silicon into the PS3's CPU (which, to be fair, was also custom silicon, but the point is that it was in hardware) to enable PS2 back compat, and eventually giving up on that and accepting lesser software emulation towards the end of the PS3 lifespan. Having read up on the challenges inherent in the PS3 CPU, like keeping all the registers synced up in software is still sort of a miracle for current emulators.
I mean, the big schtick with the Xbox One was all the pretty damn incredible work they did with their software emulator for the 360's PPC (which leads to them only supporting 568 titles out of 2084 - not perfect, but still pretty impressive, especially since they're getting graphical improvements in there as well and not just CPU instruction set emulation), but x86 Xbox One to x86 Series X? This does not seem like a huge challenge given that they're coming out of the gate with 90%+ back compatibility. So far as I can tell the only incompatible games require the Kinect, so, fair enough.
Sony is noticeably cagier about their backwards compatibility list, to be fair, but Mark Cerny is claiming "the overwhelming majority" will be playable on the PS5.
I mean, I suppose it's possible that both MS and Sony have sunk tens of thousands of man-hours into bringing their prior generation's APIs into their current hardware, and while that seems to be sort of a badge of pride for MS ("See?! DirectX is awesome!" I expect), Sony really doesn't seem to be interested in sabotaging their tie ratio by providing backwards compatibility. Unless if it wasn't actually a lot of work this time around?
posted by Kyol at 8:02 PM on November 9, 2020
Both platforms use hardware backwards compatibility for the previous generation. Past that it's software emulation, and MS have invested much more heavily in that. Probably partially because GamePass requires a steady stream of content, but also because it's really their thing. Look at Windows. Running ancient software is their culture. Helps that the only weird thing about the 360 was it's choice of CPU, and the shitty PPC part they went with is easily emulated.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 9:04 AM on November 10, 2020
posted by inpHilltr8r at 9:04 AM on November 10, 2020
My XBox Series X has just arrived and it's going through initial setup now.
Before it got here, I cleared off and uninstalled my old XBox One, and I managed to be only slightly embarrassed by the crouton-petting fact that I thanked it for its long years of service afterward.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 10:16 AM on November 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Before it got here, I cleared off and uninstalled my old XBox One, and I managed to be only slightly embarrassed by the crouton-petting fact that I thanked it for its long years of service afterward.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 10:16 AM on November 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Geof. how do you manage your controllers with that setup? It fascinates me otherwise
Bluetooth extenders work well.
posted by geoff. at 7:05 PM on November 10, 2020
Bluetooth extenders work well.
posted by geoff. at 7:05 PM on November 10, 2020
I skipped the last generation (unless you want to count Switch), and I play (and am interested in) so few games that buying a new console seems like a waste, but ... I might have to buy an XBox Series X once Flight Simulator is released.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:16 AM on November 11, 2020
posted by uncleozzy at 7:16 AM on November 11, 2020
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If you're like me and don't play anywhere near regularly, even signing into the consoles is a chore. There's always like an hour worth of updates.
So a Quick Resume feature that kind of works sounds horrible to me. If advertisers can track our phone by MAC address or something I'm pretty sure video game manufacturers who own a completely vertical experience can figure out a way to make playing a game not a huge deal.
posted by geoff. at 9:52 AM on November 7, 2020 [10 favorites]