No Fairytale Ending
December 12, 2020 2:26 PM Subscribe
Unexpected indie success stories grab people's attention, but more often than not, games are released without anyone noticing (Vice). Patrick Klepek talks to the devs of Ray’s the Dead (PS4/PC), a crowdfunded game that spent seven years in development and released to a lukewarm reception.
It is so very hard to make a thing, regardless of quality, and so few of the things that get made get acknowledged.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:33 PM on December 12, 2020 [17 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 3:33 PM on December 12, 2020 [17 favorites]
This is by far the most common tale, and one few ever hear or think about, because it is so rarely spoken of in the media. But for every success story there are a hundred so-so responses, and the devil of it all is that quality is often not the main ingredient in how successful a game is.
posted by JHarris at 6:18 PM on December 12, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 6:18 PM on December 12, 2020 [14 favorites]
Making money with your art is an extremely tricky proposition.
posted by chasing at 6:44 PM on December 12, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by chasing at 6:44 PM on December 12, 2020 [7 favorites]
I work in games. It's been more than a decade. When people outside the industry tell me they want to make a game, I:
1) Point them towards Unity and Unreal
2) Suggest they do not make their dream game first. Make tetris to learn the ropes.
3) Say something like "Do not expect your game to make money, even if it is amazing. In fact, it will probably be easier to realize your vision with ongoing external funding: aka your day job."
It's hard enough to make a thing. It's harder to make a profitable thing. To make your dream thing and have it be a profitable thing, especially when it's the first thing you've made under self-employment? It's kind of like expecting your first lottery ticket to make you a millionaire, except it takes several years to scratch off the numbers and costs your life's savings.
posted by ®@ at 7:56 PM on December 12, 2020 [28 favorites]
1) Point them towards Unity and Unreal
2) Suggest they do not make their dream game first. Make tetris to learn the ropes.
3) Say something like "Do not expect your game to make money, even if it is amazing. In fact, it will probably be easier to realize your vision with ongoing external funding: aka your day job."
It's hard enough to make a thing. It's harder to make a profitable thing. To make your dream thing and have it be a profitable thing, especially when it's the first thing you've made under self-employment? It's kind of like expecting your first lottery ticket to make you a millionaire, except it takes several years to scratch off the numbers and costs your life's savings.
posted by ®@ at 7:56 PM on December 12, 2020 [28 favorites]
Oh, and I point them towards GlobalGameJam.org. Gamejams are great! In one weekend you can make a thing, and learn whether you enjoyed the process.
posted by ®@ at 7:58 PM on December 12, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by ®@ at 7:58 PM on December 12, 2020 [3 favorites]
(I don't intend to sound so dire. There actually has never been a better time to start making games! The tools are free and amazing.
It's just not a great time to try and make your first game as a business model.
But if you have a game in your head that doesn't exist and you want to play it, yeah, maybe that can actually happen, which is amazing!)
posted by ®@ at 7:59 PM on December 12, 2020 [10 favorites]
It's just not a great time to try and make your first game as a business model.
But if you have a game in your head that doesn't exist and you want to play it, yeah, maybe that can actually happen, which is amazing!)
posted by ®@ at 7:59 PM on December 12, 2020 [10 favorites]
It's kind of like expecting your first lottery ticket to make you a millionaire, except it takes several years to scratch off the numbers and costs your life's savings.
Where did it say they were expecting to win the lottery? I got the impression that they were just hoping for some kind of a response at all and were pretty underwhelmed.
I do agree that this approach seemed pretty doomed from the beginning. The 3 dudes who do this are all described as 'director' on the studio website, which makes me wonder "director of whom?" $50k doesn't buy much developer time. This is two artists and one programmer. The screenshots/gifs on the studio site look great, but producing enough content at that level of quality was almost certainly going to take much longer than 2 years when it's just 3 guys who are also raising kids and such at the same time.
This sounds like a lot like what would happen if your friend's moderately well-known/received band stopped gigging and went 7 years before finally releasing their 1st album. Maybe the album is good, maybe not, but who on earth is paying attention anymore?
posted by axiom at 9:05 PM on December 12, 2020 [3 favorites]
Where did it say they were expecting to win the lottery? I got the impression that they were just hoping for some kind of a response at all and were pretty underwhelmed.
I do agree that this approach seemed pretty doomed from the beginning. The 3 dudes who do this are all described as 'director' on the studio website, which makes me wonder "director of whom?" $50k doesn't buy much developer time. This is two artists and one programmer. The screenshots/gifs on the studio site look great, but producing enough content at that level of quality was almost certainly going to take much longer than 2 years when it's just 3 guys who are also raising kids and such at the same time.
This sounds like a lot like what would happen if your friend's moderately well-known/received band stopped gigging and went 7 years before finally releasing their 1st album. Maybe the album is good, maybe not, but who on earth is paying attention anymore?
posted by axiom at 9:05 PM on December 12, 2020 [3 favorites]
I spend a lot of time working with indie game developers, although normally not ones with this little experience. Game development and music have a LOT in common when it comes to business models and economics. In both cases there are way more people who want to create then the market really needs, so there's an oversupply of inexperienced creators who fund their project with side jobs or work long hours for free. The fact that the game is getting released at all puts this team in the top 5% or so of game developers, the vast majority collapse long before this point. As others have said, now is a great time to learn how to make games but a very risky time to try and make money from releasing a game.
Indie (or other) games need at least 3 things to succeed: a team that can create a game at a certain baseline of quality, a concept or pitch that interests a significant audience that is willing to spend money, and enough luck, connections, or marketing money to get noticed by influential people in the games community who will spread the word for you. A game can be brilliant in 2 of those and still fail hard if they don't have enough of the third.
Also I can definitely say from experience that if you think "this game is about a year away" it will take at least 2 full years until it's ready. Almost every game developer I've ever worked with makes this mistake, even those with decades of experience, and I just tend to double any time estimates anyone ever gives.
posted by JZig at 9:51 PM on December 12, 2020 [10 favorites]
Indie (or other) games need at least 3 things to succeed: a team that can create a game at a certain baseline of quality, a concept or pitch that interests a significant audience that is willing to spend money, and enough luck, connections, or marketing money to get noticed by influential people in the games community who will spread the word for you. A game can be brilliant in 2 of those and still fail hard if they don't have enough of the third.
Also I can definitely say from experience that if you think "this game is about a year away" it will take at least 2 full years until it's ready. Almost every game developer I've ever worked with makes this mistake, even those with decades of experience, and I just tend to double any time estimates anyone ever gives.
posted by JZig at 9:51 PM on December 12, 2020 [10 favorites]
In software you first do ninety percent of the work, and then go do the other ninety percent of the work.
posted by kaibutsu at 11:14 PM on December 12, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by kaibutsu at 11:14 PM on December 12, 2020 [10 favorites]
Where did it say they were expecting to win the lottery? I got the impression that they were just hoping for some kind of a response at all and were pretty underwhelmed.
Making enough money to keep the lights on and food on the table in indie gaming is winning the lottery.
posted by sideshow at 11:25 PM on December 12, 2020 [10 favorites]
Making enough money to keep the lights on and food on the table in indie gaming is winning the lottery.
posted by sideshow at 11:25 PM on December 12, 2020 [10 favorites]
Oh dang they shipped this! I remember it being mentioned at Adult Swim as a game that was very cool & fun & sadly completely dead in development.
Good on the devs for getting it out there, hope it gets some attention (I dunno what happened with ASG but they're clearly not in a position to give it marketing traction). Looking forward to playing it!
posted by taquito sunrise at 4:03 AM on December 13, 2020
Good on the devs for getting it out there, hope it gets some attention (I dunno what happened with ASG but they're clearly not in a position to give it marketing traction). Looking forward to playing it!
posted by taquito sunrise at 4:03 AM on December 13, 2020
I’ve watched this sort of stuff for a while, and I’ve found that there are three main ways to be financially successful as a game developer:
1. Have already been successful
2. Win the lottery and get noticed by major coverage outlets
3. If all else fails, have a huge marketing budget
It’s a pretty rough industry
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:20 AM on December 13, 2020 [2 favorites]
1. Have already been successful
2. Win the lottery and get noticed by major coverage outlets
3. If all else fails, have a huge marketing budget
It’s a pretty rough industry
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:20 AM on December 13, 2020 [2 favorites]
Let's don't forget that with video games, the vast majority of gatekeepers to the public's eye (youtube "curators") are talentless arrogant cishet white male shitweasels who generally fail at everything in life except stroking the egos of people even more repulsive than themselves who, unfortunately, have wallets with ready cash.
Am I bitter? Yes.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:05 AM on December 13, 2020 [14 favorites]
Am I bitter? Yes.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:05 AM on December 13, 2020 [14 favorites]
It's always been about arrogant cishet white failson shitweasel gatekeepers in games journalism. I work adjacent to games accessibility, and 99% burned out is seen as doing pretty well for the public gamers with disabilities and accessibility advocates there.
posted by scruss at 7:52 AM on December 13, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by scruss at 7:52 AM on December 13, 2020 [3 favorites]
Marketing is part of development.
Programming, design and art are all part of development, and these are taught in game development schools, both traditional and online.
Time management, money management, human resource management and MARKETING are all part of development and might be taught in game development schools.... but doubtful? Does anyone know?
Not blaming the victim here, this lack of attention to the other part of successful creativity is systemic in nearly all educational structures.
I have a BFA from a landmark art university, and we got all of zero regarding time and money management, and marketing was a dirty word.
posted by Wetterschneider at 8:32 AM on December 13, 2020 [2 favorites]
Programming, design and art are all part of development, and these are taught in game development schools, both traditional and online.
Time management, money management, human resource management and MARKETING are all part of development and might be taught in game development schools.... but doubtful? Does anyone know?
Not blaming the victim here, this lack of attention to the other part of successful creativity is systemic in nearly all educational structures.
I have a BFA from a landmark art university, and we got all of zero regarding time and money management, and marketing was a dirty word.
posted by Wetterschneider at 8:32 AM on December 13, 2020 [2 favorites]
After reading the article, there's a lot there about time management, and why a game takes so long to make.
If you take too long to make a game, hardware will outpace your development arc, and keep setting you back. Sometimes it's even software development (3d tools, authoring tools). Take too long and new conditions inspire scrapping and rebuilding. Take too long and another game comes out that forces redesign.
One dev cycle that got hammered, yes, I'm old, was for a game that spanned the adoption of 3d video cards. When we started, they weren't a thing, in the middle, everyone has new tech that changed the face of gaming. We rebuilt the 3d assets multiple times, trying to keep abreast that wave of tech advance.
Another, older project, got re-initialized simply because, don't laugh, Lightwave became a 3d package we could use and it blew the doors off what we were using and how fast we could render - this was for a Myst-style pre-rendered puzzle adventure.
posted by Wetterschneider at 8:40 AM on December 13, 2020 [5 favorites]
If you take too long to make a game, hardware will outpace your development arc, and keep setting you back. Sometimes it's even software development (3d tools, authoring tools). Take too long and new conditions inspire scrapping and rebuilding. Take too long and another game comes out that forces redesign.
One dev cycle that got hammered, yes, I'm old, was for a game that spanned the adoption of 3d video cards. When we started, they weren't a thing, in the middle, everyone has new tech that changed the face of gaming. We rebuilt the 3d assets multiple times, trying to keep abreast that wave of tech advance.
Another, older project, got re-initialized simply because, don't laugh, Lightwave became a 3d package we could use and it blew the doors off what we were using and how fast we could render - this was for a Myst-style pre-rendered puzzle adventure.
posted by Wetterschneider at 8:40 AM on December 13, 2020 [5 favorites]
Tough story full of expensive lessons. Hope that Ray's The Dead finds its audience eventually.
It feels literally impossible to stay on top of everything coming out day to day. Even for those of us who love this hobby dearly and keep a close eye on the press are not hearing a word about most of the stuff coming out.
This seems like a good thread to link to the great John Walker's project, Buried Treasure. He founded this site after selling Rock Paper Shotgun in order to highlight indie games that might otherwise be overlooked. The combination of reading this story and watching Mr. Walker contend with waves of gamergaters on twitter over the weekend because of his great crime of not showering Cyberpunk 2077 with unearned praise has compelled me to sign up for his Patreon. I appreciate what he's trying to do, and I hope it's a success.
Where else should a person keep their eyes on to find out about neat games that your IGNs and Kotakus and such aren't going to cover?
posted by EatTheWeek at 9:00 AM on December 13, 2020 [2 favorites]
It feels literally impossible to stay on top of everything coming out day to day. Even for those of us who love this hobby dearly and keep a close eye on the press are not hearing a word about most of the stuff coming out.
This seems like a good thread to link to the great John Walker's project, Buried Treasure. He founded this site after selling Rock Paper Shotgun in order to highlight indie games that might otherwise be overlooked. The combination of reading this story and watching Mr. Walker contend with waves of gamergaters on twitter over the weekend because of his great crime of not showering Cyberpunk 2077 with unearned praise has compelled me to sign up for his Patreon. I appreciate what he's trying to do, and I hope it's a success.
Where else should a person keep their eyes on to find out about neat games that your IGNs and Kotakus and such aren't going to cover?
posted by EatTheWeek at 9:00 AM on December 13, 2020 [2 favorites]
Holy shit, there are amazing things hidden in the Buried Treasure link. hold on, imma make an FPP for one of them...
posted by kaibutsu at 10:44 AM on December 13, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by kaibutsu at 10:44 AM on December 13, 2020 [4 favorites]
Indie (or other) games need at least 3 things to succeed:
a team that can create a game at a certain baseline of quality,
a concept or pitch that interests a significant audience that is willing to spend money,
and enough luck, connections, or marketing money to get noticed by influential people in the games community who will spread the word for you.
A game can be brilliant in 2 of those and still fail hard if they don't have enough of the third.
I was thinking "What kind of game would have the second two things but not the first?" but then I remembered Yandere Simulator is a thing that exists. Star Citizen may or may not also meet those criteria, depending on your definition of "create a game."
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 5:04 PM on December 13, 2020
a team that can create a game at a certain baseline of quality,
a concept or pitch that interests a significant audience that is willing to spend money,
and enough luck, connections, or marketing money to get noticed by influential people in the games community who will spread the word for you.
A game can be brilliant in 2 of those and still fail hard if they don't have enough of the third.
I was thinking "What kind of game would have the second two things but not the first?" but then I remembered Yandere Simulator is a thing that exists. Star Citizen may or may not also meet those criteria, depending on your definition of "create a game."
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 5:04 PM on December 13, 2020
My wife worked for Koei for a while, they're the studio that makes the Dynasty Warriors (and other _________ Warriors) games and one knock that all of her co-workers had was that they were sick of those games. But, there's a segment of people who love to play and buy them and that's what keeps the people at Koei employed.
I downloaded the demo of the new Hyrule Warriors game for my son to play and my wife was sad to see that more than a decade after she quit that job Koei is still putting out the same game.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:50 PM on December 15, 2020
I downloaded the demo of the new Hyrule Warriors game for my son to play and my wife was sad to see that more than a decade after she quit that job Koei is still putting out the same game.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:50 PM on December 15, 2020
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posted by 1adam12 at 3:16 PM on December 12, 2020 [3 favorites]