Seth Rogen's Pottery and How the World Wants You to Monetize Your Hobby
December 14, 2020 5:43 PM Subscribe
Interview with Seth Rogen on his ceramic vases Seth Rogen started a pottery habit early on in the pandemic so he could make his own ashtrays.
His skills have advanced over the past 10 months, and social media is on alert. (Much of the rapid improvement is clearly due to his copious amounts of time and money to spend at this new hobby).
In an interview on The Cut this week, he is asked when he is starting to sell them and make it a commercial enterprise, selling his pottery. He says, "give them away, I trade them with other ceramicists and other artists from time to time. Which is an incredible way to acquire things. I currently have no plans … Honestly I’ve been approached by galleries. But I don’t know what to say!"
Buzzfeed and Page Six become fans, and both sites wonder when the multi-millionaire Rogen will start selling his pottery.
Even for millionaires, the idea of turning your hobby into a "side hustle" is pervasive.
His skills have advanced over the past 10 months, and social media is on alert. (Much of the rapid improvement is clearly due to his copious amounts of time and money to spend at this new hobby).
In an interview on The Cut this week, he is asked when he is starting to sell them and make it a commercial enterprise, selling his pottery. He says, "give them away, I trade them with other ceramicists and other artists from time to time. Which is an incredible way to acquire things. I currently have no plans … Honestly I’ve been approached by galleries. But I don’t know what to say!"
Buzzfeed and Page Six become fans, and both sites wonder when the multi-millionaire Rogen will start selling his pottery.
Even for millionaires, the idea of turning your hobby into a "side hustle" is pervasive.
I was doing an open source project anyway for several years, and decided what the hell, I'll make a patreon page for it. I am very careful to promise nothing. I make about 14 bucks a month, free and clear, heh. Killin' it.
posted by smcameron at 6:02 PM on December 14, 2020 [22 favorites]
posted by smcameron at 6:02 PM on December 14, 2020 [22 favorites]
He's making ashtrays and vases and not bongs?
He muxt have matured lately...
posted by Windopaene at 6:10 PM on December 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
He muxt have matured lately...
posted by Windopaene at 6:10 PM on December 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
He's making ashtrays and vases and not bongs?
His brand of cannabis products available in Canada has met with mixed reviews [NSFW if W is not down with Reddit cannabis forums].
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:16 PM on December 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
His brand of cannabis products available in Canada has met with mixed reviews [NSFW if W is not down with Reddit cannabis forums].
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:16 PM on December 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
I monetized my hobby to a fairly extreme degree (I've been calling it my "jobby" for years...) and the net result was that I lost my jobs AND my hobby all at once when the pandemic hit. Not great.
posted by nevercalm at 6:22 PM on December 14, 2020 [33 favorites]
posted by nevercalm at 6:22 PM on December 14, 2020 [33 favorites]
I make electronic music. My first couple of albums, I had CDs made (because it was far enough back in time where that was the way to distribute things) and charged money, and I just slightly more than broke even on the cost of the CDs.
A couple of years ago I tried DistroKid, but didn't get paid enough by the combination of Spotify, Apple, Google, etc. to really even cover the small yearly fee.
I also release albums on Bandcamp, originally at the recommended/default price, but then I switched to free/pay what you want. Most people pay nothing (and I'm fine with this), but some will pay $5 or $10, and once in a while, more.
posted by Foosnark at 6:39 PM on December 14, 2020 [10 favorites]
A couple of years ago I tried DistroKid, but didn't get paid enough by the combination of Spotify, Apple, Google, etc. to really even cover the small yearly fee.
I also release albums on Bandcamp, originally at the recommended/default price, but then I switched to free/pay what you want. Most people pay nothing (and I'm fine with this), but some will pay $5 or $10, and once in a while, more.
posted by Foosnark at 6:39 PM on December 14, 2020 [10 favorites]
Good for him. I’m happy for him, and I have no snark.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:45 PM on December 14, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:45 PM on December 14, 2020 [9 favorites]
This is why I refuse to get good enough at any hobby to be subjected to internal or external pressure to perfect the skill or monetize. I will always be a half-assed hunter jumper yogi making marginally adequate animal art and no more, for sanity's sake. Increasing skill always amps up the pressure enough to take all the fun out of it, for all variables of 'it.'
posted by MustangMamaVE at 6:51 PM on December 14, 2020 [24 favorites]
posted by MustangMamaVE at 6:51 PM on December 14, 2020 [24 favorites]
My one attempt at turning my hobby into a side hustle filled me with stress and guilt when, although the customer was satisfied with the end product, I was not. It took something I loved doing and added pressures that made me not enjoy doing it.
Like Mr. Rogan, although I may decide otherwise in the future, for now I'm finding much satisfaction using my hobby for gift giving or as barter for other goods and services. I get the satisfaction of finding homes for things I make without the stress of trying to come up with a price for my work that a) people are willing to pay and b) values my time and effort.
posted by bondcliff at 7:08 PM on December 14, 2020 [15 favorites]
Like Mr. Rogan, although I may decide otherwise in the future, for now I'm finding much satisfaction using my hobby for gift giving or as barter for other goods and services. I get the satisfaction of finding homes for things I make without the stress of trying to come up with a price for my work that a) people are willing to pay and b) values my time and effort.
posted by bondcliff at 7:08 PM on December 14, 2020 [15 favorites]
Wow, I was not expecting his ceramics to be so good! And I'm an unrepentant snob about homemade pottery... They are really interesting, and I'm itching to hold one and look at it properly. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that someone with a super successful career in the arts, also has a lot of artistic talent in another field!
posted by EllaEm at 7:34 PM on December 14, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by EllaEm at 7:34 PM on December 14, 2020 [8 favorites]
I think "turn your hobby into your job!" only works with services, and not so much products.
With a service, you do it on yourself, then your family/friends for free, then randos for free, and then you start charging actually money, and viola! It's your job!
With a product, you make one for yourself, but it takes so much work you've "paid" yourself like 10 cents an hour. Then you make some for family/friends with less effort, but it's still like the equivalent of $1 an hour. Then you get to the "randos" stage, thinking you'll make it up in volume, but it takes way too long to realize you'd have to work 32 hours a day just to make the equivalent of a minimum wage job.
At least with a service you kinda know up front (or at least early on) what kind of money you are looking at. It seems easier to do the "X services per day at Y price minus cost of goods sold" verses "X widgets at Y price, but if I make more of them by taking less time, I can do X +Z widgets, but since they have less quality I should probably charge Y - A, oh shit, some dude in Tucson saw my thing on Instagram and he's dropping shipping the same kinda thing from Shenzhen for less than my cost....fin"
posted by sideshow at 9:02 PM on December 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
With a service, you do it on yourself, then your family/friends for free, then randos for free, and then you start charging actually money, and viola! It's your job!
With a product, you make one for yourself, but it takes so much work you've "paid" yourself like 10 cents an hour. Then you make some for family/friends with less effort, but it's still like the equivalent of $1 an hour. Then you get to the "randos" stage, thinking you'll make it up in volume, but it takes way too long to realize you'd have to work 32 hours a day just to make the equivalent of a minimum wage job.
At least with a service you kinda know up front (or at least early on) what kind of money you are looking at. It seems easier to do the "X services per day at Y price minus cost of goods sold" verses "X widgets at Y price, but if I make more of them by taking less time, I can do X +Z widgets, but since they have less quality I should probably charge Y - A, oh shit, some dude in Tucson saw my thing on Instagram and he's dropping shipping the same kinda thing from Shenzhen for less than my cost....fin"
posted by sideshow at 9:02 PM on December 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
The glazes actually are doing exactly what I want them to do which is a big thing for me. Yay.
This may be the one and only time I ever identify with Seth Rogen. If a bit jealously.
posted by Metasyntactic at 9:15 PM on December 14, 2020 [12 favorites]
This may be the one and only time I ever identify with Seth Rogen. If a bit jealously.
posted by Metasyntactic at 9:15 PM on December 14, 2020 [12 favorites]
That original instagram post is from April 2019, so he picked up ceramics well before the pandemic.
I struggle with the side hustle thing. I'm about to start a new craft hobby (asking for funds towards the purchase of a tufting gun for xmas), and given the cost of materials and my own limited space for rugs and wall hangings, I feel like I may need to start selling my work once I get decent, just to fund the hobby. But I've done the maker-biz side hustle thing before and it was a ton of fun but also wore on me a lot, to the point that I didn't want to make anything for a few years after I stopped selling, and I'd rather not burn out like that again.
posted by polymath at 9:15 PM on December 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
I struggle with the side hustle thing. I'm about to start a new craft hobby (asking for funds towards the purchase of a tufting gun for xmas), and given the cost of materials and my own limited space for rugs and wall hangings, I feel like I may need to start selling my work once I get decent, just to fund the hobby. But I've done the maker-biz side hustle thing before and it was a ton of fun but also wore on me a lot, to the point that I didn't want to make anything for a few years after I stopped selling, and I'd rather not burn out like that again.
posted by polymath at 9:15 PM on December 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
I’m happy for the guy but all the press he's getting is a bit galling for the many, many serious ceramicists who're waiting for their co-op or community centre kilns to start running again.
posted by bonobothegreat at 9:16 PM on December 14, 2020 [37 favorites]
posted by bonobothegreat at 9:16 PM on December 14, 2020 [37 favorites]
I'm here to tell you it's damned hard to turn making dumb jokes online into a side hustle. I haven't made Cent One.
well, one customer claims they Sent One, but it never arrived
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:36 PM on December 14, 2020 [15 favorites]
well, one customer claims they Sent One, but it never arrived
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:36 PM on December 14, 2020 [15 favorites]
Attempting to turn a hobby into a job is a good way to ruin a hobby.
posted by smcameron at 9:42 PM on December 14, 2020 [34 favorites]
posted by smcameron at 9:42 PM on December 14, 2020 [34 favorites]
I have a few good friends who are ceramicists and was very prepared to scoff at some dabbler’s dumb ashtrays but damn, his work is really good.
posted by oulipian at 10:20 PM on December 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by oulipian at 10:20 PM on December 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
What a world it would be if all of us were able to dedicate enough time and energy into our own stray interests. I wish that everyone could pursue their own ashtrays.
Seth Rogen is a great ceramicist. I'm happy for him but I wish I could say that with actual joy.
posted by Neronomius at 11:40 PM on December 14, 2020 [19 favorites]
Seth Rogen is a great ceramicist. I'm happy for him but I wish I could say that with actual joy.
posted by Neronomius at 11:40 PM on December 14, 2020 [19 favorites]
It doesn't matter if famous person sells their art or not. Galleries can sell bad art as long as the person is known. The person in this story does interview about his hobby and posts about his hobby on instagram to his thousand of followers.
Celebrities and their hobbies. You'll never guess how idiotic that sounds.
posted by beesbees at 11:47 PM on December 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
Celebrities and their hobbies. You'll never guess how idiotic that sounds.
posted by beesbees at 11:47 PM on December 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
The art world is surely stupid and unfair and arbitrary, and it affords opportunities to the famous that the rest of us do not get. But that does not relate to the fact that Seth Rogen, a sculpting novice, has put in some hours and learned to make some pretty pots. Good for him, and good for everyone who spends time working on a craft.
Celebrity worship has probably always been bad, but if this gets people interested in pottery that seems just fine
posted by Going To Maine at 12:07 AM on December 15, 2020 [10 favorites]
Celebrity worship has probably always been bad, but if this gets people interested in pottery that seems just fine
posted by Going To Maine at 12:07 AM on December 15, 2020 [10 favorites]
It's really weird to kinda watch this on youtube. There are people doing things and making videos (which is a skill in itself, and takes tons of time), and some get sixteen views and others can actually make it into a fairly lucrative job. It's kind of fascinating to see how that works. Not every successful person there is hugely skilled at the thing they make videos about, but it helps, and not everyone making videos is "conventionally attractive" which probably helps in some fields and might hurt in others (maybe?). Some have charisma, some not so much...it's fascinating to see where the spark lands.
Of course the surest way to make money doing a side thing is to be Very Famous or have a big following in the first place (per this post). There was a super-annoying video made by one youtuber where they set out to make I think it was $1,000 in 12 hours, the whole thing being a squarespace ad, really. The implication was that you put up a web site and the money pours in, even if you're a nobody.
The reality is as a smcameron noted above, for most of us. I have a hobby website which is considered THE place for a certain niche of that hobby, and has been for more than 15 years now. I get $20 or so per month, donated...I have thousands of hours in the site. $1,000 in 12 hours, my arse.
posted by maxwelton at 12:10 AM on December 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
Of course the surest way to make money doing a side thing is to be Very Famous or have a big following in the first place (per this post). There was a super-annoying video made by one youtuber where they set out to make I think it was $1,000 in 12 hours, the whole thing being a squarespace ad, really. The implication was that you put up a web site and the money pours in, even if you're a nobody.
The reality is as a smcameron noted above, for most of us. I have a hobby website which is considered THE place for a certain niche of that hobby, and has been for more than 15 years now. I get $20 or so per month, donated...I have thousands of hours in the site. $1,000 in 12 hours, my arse.
posted by maxwelton at 12:10 AM on December 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
I give him full credit for knowing who Ken Price was and I also give him full credit for actually getting better at ceramics.
As I understand it, art is my vocation, I have my supper shitty warehouse job in order to fund that vocation. The whole idea that art is primarily understood as a side hustle has always been extremely alien to me; it is the central thing in my life.
I think as far as art goes I am primarily known here for the 'paughtraits' I do of Trump and other odious figues, but this is my Instagram account which gives a broader sense of the work I do.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 12:58 AM on December 15, 2020 [7 favorites]
As I understand it, art is my vocation, I have my supper shitty warehouse job in order to fund that vocation. The whole idea that art is primarily understood as a side hustle has always been extremely alien to me; it is the central thing in my life.
I think as far as art goes I am primarily known here for the 'paughtraits' I do of Trump and other odious figues, but this is my Instagram account which gives a broader sense of the work I do.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 12:58 AM on December 15, 2020 [7 favorites]
Galleries can sell bad art as long as the person is known.
Trump might turn his hand to watercolours.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 1:02 AM on December 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
Trump might turn his hand to watercolours.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 1:02 AM on December 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
My podcast definitely fits in the hobby camp, but I make a small amount of scratch via Patreon and Ko-Fi, so it's been break even from day one, with that money going toward Libsyn hosting and domain name(s) and shared website hosting.
So I got that going for me.
Turning it into something more is in the hands/ears/wallets of the listeners, which I do not control, so I'll just keep on keeping on.
posted by Bill Watches Movies Podcast at 1:29 AM on December 15, 2020
So I got that going for me.
Turning it into something more is in the hands/ears/wallets of the listeners, which I do not control, so I'll just keep on keeping on.
posted by Bill Watches Movies Podcast at 1:29 AM on December 15, 2020
There are people doing things and making videos (which is a skill in itself, and takes tons of time), and some get sixteen views and others can actually make it into a fairly lucrative job. It's kind of fascinating to see how that works. Not every successful person there is hugely skilled at the thing they make videos about, but it helps, and not everyone making videos is "conventionally attractive" which probably helps in some fields and might hurt in others (maybe?). Some have charisma, some not so much...it's fascinating to see where the spark lands.
As someone dabbling in that world myself, it breaks me a little bit to see some of the low effort dreck that gets 100K views while I struggle to get 20 or 50. But I guess better to just keep plugging away...
posted by Meatbomb at 1:31 AM on December 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
As someone dabbling in that world myself, it breaks me a little bit to see some of the low effort dreck that gets 100K views while I struggle to get 20 or 50. But I guess better to just keep plugging away...
posted by Meatbomb at 1:31 AM on December 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
I've been calling it my "jobby" for years
Nevercalm, if you are ever in Scotland, DO NOT call it that.
posted by genuinely curious at 2:05 AM on December 15, 2020 [38 favorites]
Nevercalm, if you are ever in Scotland, DO NOT call it that.
posted by genuinely curious at 2:05 AM on December 15, 2020 [38 favorites]
Apparently, Howard Stern’s side hustle could make him millions. The painting in the article is quite good. And Jim Carrey is having a go at it.
posted by waving at 6:16 AM on December 15, 2020
posted by waving at 6:16 AM on December 15, 2020
Attempting to turn a hobby into a job is a good way to ruin a hobby.
Truth. One of the things I've learned about myself in lockdown is I enjoy hobbies provided they aren't on some deadline or timetable. I have a guitar next to my desk in the home office. I pick it up when I feel like it or sometimes don't touch it for a few weeks. If I were trying to write jingles for podcasts, it would stop functioning as a way to get my mind off my job for a bit. It would just be another job. I'll take the mental health benefits over a few bucks.
posted by cmfletcher at 6:27 AM on December 15, 2020 [5 favorites]
Truth. One of the things I've learned about myself in lockdown is I enjoy hobbies provided they aren't on some deadline or timetable. I have a guitar next to my desk in the home office. I pick it up when I feel like it or sometimes don't touch it for a few weeks. If I were trying to write jingles for podcasts, it would stop functioning as a way to get my mind off my job for a bit. It would just be another job. I'll take the mental health benefits over a few bucks.
posted by cmfletcher at 6:27 AM on December 15, 2020 [5 favorites]
Fame sells; it's the "secret" ingredient or skill that most of us don't have. I'm not commenting on the quality of his work, but it it were Joe Blow we'd never be hearing about it.
posted by achrise at 6:51 AM on December 15, 2020 [13 favorites]
posted by achrise at 6:51 AM on December 15, 2020 [13 favorites]
Apparently, Howard Stern’s side hustle could make him millions.
Is that kind of painting -- even quite a few of that kind of painting or a long edition of signed prints -- really worth millions? Even signed by Howard Stern? I can't imagine the type of person who would want to patronize Howard Stern as an artist would be interested in the kind of boring ass watercolors that usually hang above beds in a Marriott Courtyard, no matter how competently painted. At least Rogen's vases are interesting.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:55 AM on December 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
Is that kind of painting -- even quite a few of that kind of painting or a long edition of signed prints -- really worth millions? Even signed by Howard Stern? I can't imagine the type of person who would want to patronize Howard Stern as an artist would be interested in the kind of boring ass watercolors that usually hang above beds in a Marriott Courtyard, no matter how competently painted. At least Rogen's vases are interesting.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:55 AM on December 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
He's making ashtrays and vases and not bongs?
If I may derail slightly, Tommy Chong says he'll accept a pardon now.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 6:58 AM on December 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
If I may derail slightly, Tommy Chong says he'll accept a pardon now.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 6:58 AM on December 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
I remember one of the actors in That Guy ... Who Was In That Thing, maybe Paul Guilfoyle, talking about how he did pottery and how you have to have a hobby for the downtimes during an acting career.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:15 AM on December 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by rmd1023 at 7:15 AM on December 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
I've been calling it my "jobby" for years
Nevercalm, if you are ever in Scotland, DO NOT call it that.
posted by genuinely curious at 5:05 AM on December 15
Um, noted.....
posted by nevercalm at 7:28 AM on December 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
Nevercalm, if you are ever in Scotland, DO NOT call it that.
posted by genuinely curious at 5:05 AM on December 15
Um, noted.....
posted by nevercalm at 7:28 AM on December 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
Is that kind of painting -- even quite a few of that kind of painting or a long edition of signed prints -- really worth millions?
It doesn't even have a cabin in the picture!
posted by thelonius at 8:12 AM on December 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
It doesn't even have a cabin in the picture!
posted by thelonius at 8:12 AM on December 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
Frank Sinatra painted abstract art late in life, some are for sale if you have the means.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:52 AM on December 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:52 AM on December 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
Now, I just need to get working on becoming a celebrity to monetize my hobby building table hockey games.........
posted by remo at 8:52 AM on December 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by remo at 8:52 AM on December 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
I was a potter in college and I'm so proud of Seth for how far he's come. The biggest deterrent I had to becoming a full time artist was the terror of losing the joy of making the cool thing. In our program, you could work all week on a specific piece, stick it in the kiln, and bam! It either became something cool or turned into a piece of shit. There was a pile of broken crockery outside the kiln room next to the silo (our art building was a refurbished horse barn). I realized towards the end of my time in college that if you were doing this to feed yourself, you couldn't throw away the pot cause it wasn't *just right*. You had to embrace the junk so you could make enough to sell and make a living.
I still make pottery from time to time. And I paint, quilt, sew, and even recently I've gotten into making felt coasters. But I never sell a thing. I give them away, or I make them with the intention of filling a need for someone. It's not worth the time and the emotional strain. I do these artistic things to escape the hustle. Not to be the hustle.
posted by teleri025 at 8:57 AM on December 15, 2020 [5 favorites]
I still make pottery from time to time. And I paint, quilt, sew, and even recently I've gotten into making felt coasters. But I never sell a thing. I give them away, or I make them with the intention of filling a need for someone. It's not worth the time and the emotional strain. I do these artistic things to escape the hustle. Not to be the hustle.
posted by teleri025 at 8:57 AM on December 15, 2020 [5 favorites]
I made my first birdie on the golf course this weekend and thought "well, time to give my two weeks notice at the office, quit my job, and turn pro."
But then I thought how it must suck for some players to have the pressure of their paycheck riding on their performance on the golf course. I play golf to get away from all that.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 9:07 AM on December 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
But then I thought how it must suck for some players to have the pressure of their paycheck riding on their performance on the golf course. I play golf to get away from all that.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 9:07 AM on December 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
Howard Stern as an artist would be interested in the kind of boring ass watercolors that usually hang above beds in a Marriott Courtyard, no matter how competently painted.
Agreed, but the detail is pretty amazing, especially the sand, footprints and shadows. As a angsty person he may find it a soothing hobby to paint realism, controlling all those details. Interesting and abstract not so much.
posted by waving at 9:08 AM on December 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
Agreed, but the detail is pretty amazing, especially the sand, footprints and shadows. As a angsty person he may find it a soothing hobby to paint realism, controlling all those details. Interesting and abstract not so much.
posted by waving at 9:08 AM on December 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
Yes, he seems to have acquired really good painting technique. I think he is the kind of person who wants to be good at hobbies and works hard at them; iirc, when he started playing chess online, he hired Dan Heisman as a teacher.
posted by thelonius at 9:29 AM on December 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 9:29 AM on December 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
Agreed, but the detail is pretty amazing, especially the sand, footprints and shadows.
The shadows seem wrong to me. How would a crossed shadow like the one in the foreground happen? The light isn't coming from multiple sources.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:54 AM on December 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
The shadows seem wrong to me. How would a crossed shadow like the one in the foreground happen? The light isn't coming from multiple sources.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:54 AM on December 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
Attempting to turn a hobby into a job is a good way to ruin a hobby.
Or, if the hobby is homebrewing, to nourish an occasional over-indulgence into a full-fledged drinking problem while surrounded by enabling fellow-travelers!
More seriously: I'm always struck that so often when we see someone who is good at something and seems to take joy from it, we assess whether they could make a living at it. Even when it's to determine that no, that'd suck all the fun out of it, we still ask the question. My kid writes a story for school that has a unique phrasing or interesting theme - "Maybe she'll be a writer!" You cook a really nice meal for a group of friends - "Have you ever thought of opening a restaurant?" It's all very complimentary, of course, but I still find it a bit weird that we can't just accept that there are things that can bring us joy and that we're pretty talented at - and that we can even be willing to put in a lot of time and effort to develop that talent - without thinking of whether they can be monetized.
posted by nickmark at 9:55 AM on December 15, 2020 [17 favorites]
Or, if the hobby is homebrewing, to nourish an occasional over-indulgence into a full-fledged drinking problem while surrounded by enabling fellow-travelers!
More seriously: I'm always struck that so often when we see someone who is good at something and seems to take joy from it, we assess whether they could make a living at it. Even when it's to determine that no, that'd suck all the fun out of it, we still ask the question. My kid writes a story for school that has a unique phrasing or interesting theme - "Maybe she'll be a writer!" You cook a really nice meal for a group of friends - "Have you ever thought of opening a restaurant?" It's all very complimentary, of course, but I still find it a bit weird that we can't just accept that there are things that can bring us joy and that we're pretty talented at - and that we can even be willing to put in a lot of time and effort to develop that talent - without thinking of whether they can be monetized.
posted by nickmark at 9:55 AM on December 15, 2020 [17 favorites]
This is why I refuse to get good enough at any hobby to be subjected to internal or external pressure to perfect the skill or monetize.
That was always my m.o. too... I dunno.
As I now get increasingly in a possibly monetizable skill/hobby (I know the 10,000 hour rule is debunked but there is something to years of practice), there's a tremendous value in learning to do something very well.
We definitely don't need to be good at any of our hobbies. Nor do we need to ever make money off them. Mastery/expertise definitely has a value to me, though, in ways that are difficult to describe briefly. Practice can make joy.
Or, if the hobby is homebrewing, to nourish an occasional over-indulgence into a full-fledged drinking problem while surrounded by enabling fellow-travelers!
I feel seen. 53 days sober. Heck of a time to do it.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:03 AM on December 15, 2020 [15 favorites]
That was always my m.o. too... I dunno.
As I now get increasingly in a possibly monetizable skill/hobby (I know the 10,000 hour rule is debunked but there is something to years of practice), there's a tremendous value in learning to do something very well.
We definitely don't need to be good at any of our hobbies. Nor do we need to ever make money off them. Mastery/expertise definitely has a value to me, though, in ways that are difficult to describe briefly. Practice can make joy.
Or, if the hobby is homebrewing, to nourish an occasional over-indulgence into a full-fledged drinking problem while surrounded by enabling fellow-travelers!
I feel seen. 53 days sober. Heck of a time to do it.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:03 AM on December 15, 2020 [15 favorites]
Kurt Vonnegut:
When I was 15, I spent a month working on an archeological dig. I was talking to one of the archeologists one day during our lunch break and he asked those kinds of ‘getting to know you’ questions you ask young people: Do you play sports? What’s your favorite subject? And I told him, no I don’t play any sports. I do theater, I’m in choir, I play the violin and piano, I used to take art classes.posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:24 AM on December 15, 2020 [85 favorites]
And he went wow. That’s amazing! And I said, ‘Oh no, but I’m not any good at any of them.’
And he said something then that I will never forget and which absolutely blew my mind because no one had ever said anything like it to me before: ‘I don’t think being good at things is the point of doing them. I think you’ve got all these wonderful experiences with different skills, and that all teaches you things and makes you an interesting person, no matter how well you do them.’
And that honestly changed my life. Because I went from a failure, someone who hadn’t been talented enough at anything to excel, to someone who did things because I enjoyed them. I had been raised in such an achievement-oriented environment, so inundated with the myth of Talent, that I thought it was only worth doing things if you could ‘win’ at them.
I think it is actively valuable to have hobbies you are bad at. You learn a lot of problem solving skills by being terrible at shit that you don't learn if you only do things you have a natural knack for.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:31 AM on December 15, 2020 [18 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 10:31 AM on December 15, 2020 [18 favorites]
I think it is actively valuable to have hobbies you are bad at. You learn a lot of problem solving skills by being terrible at shit that you don't learn if you only do things you have a natural knack for.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:31 PM on December 15
Indeed, no-one ever learned anything by doing it right first time.
posted by faceplantingcheetah at 10:34 AM on December 15, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 6:31 PM on December 15
Indeed, no-one ever learned anything by doing it right first time.
posted by faceplantingcheetah at 10:34 AM on December 15, 2020 [7 favorites]
I think it is actively valuable to have hobbies you are bad at. You learn a lot of problem solving skills by being terrible at shit that you don't learn if you only do things you have a natural knack for.
There was a meme thing going around a little while ago that was one of those "pick three superhero skills" things and one was to be naturally good at anything you tried and even the thought of that, of just being great at everything, seemed so terrible to me - no dopamine hits from doing something and being terrible and then seeing yourself get better at it through practice? No thanks! That's the best part.
I'm also an increasingly less bad potter and Seth's stuff is pretty nice. I'm particularly surprised/impressed by how nice his glazes are, which no matter how much money you have are NOT easy to get right, as even pre-mixed stuff gets separated and needs to be remixed and dust and grumpy clay and what else you put in the kiln and where and and and can affect the way it turns out.
(I noticed thought that I instinctively read his responses in his voice in my head which is weird)
posted by urbanlenny at 11:03 AM on December 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
There was a meme thing going around a little while ago that was one of those "pick three superhero skills" things and one was to be naturally good at anything you tried and even the thought of that, of just being great at everything, seemed so terrible to me - no dopamine hits from doing something and being terrible and then seeing yourself get better at it through practice? No thanks! That's the best part.
I'm also an increasingly less bad potter and Seth's stuff is pretty nice. I'm particularly surprised/impressed by how nice his glazes are, which no matter how much money you have are NOT easy to get right, as even pre-mixed stuff gets separated and needs to be remixed and dust and grumpy clay and what else you put in the kiln and where and and and can affect the way it turns out.
(I noticed thought that I instinctively read his responses in his voice in my head which is weird)
posted by urbanlenny at 11:03 AM on December 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
urbanlenny, I did the same thing -- I heard his [Laughs.].
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:39 AM on December 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:39 AM on December 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
My mother took up pottery after hurting her wrists in a car accident (at the recommendation of her physical therapist, scultping clay being good for wrist muscles) and she's quite good at it by now, and we talk about it a lot because it's interesting and I enjoy hearing about artistic struggles in a field I will never participate in. Pottery is really hard to make! This is some gorgeous pottery Rogan has made, and the perfect vase with the perfectly-fitting cover that's currently the third picture on his Instagram is a delight.
I tried to turn my hobby (which I was unable, at the time, to admit was a hobby, although I now see that I am a top amateur, not somebody who will ever be a widely-read author) into a side hustle almost a decade ago when I started a small press and spent, I estimate, about $20k on it over the intervening 8 years. I'm proud of the books I published but fuuuuuuuuuuuuu
posted by joannemerriam at 12:38 PM on December 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
I tried to turn my hobby (which I was unable, at the time, to admit was a hobby, although I now see that I am a top amateur, not somebody who will ever be a widely-read author) into a side hustle almost a decade ago when I started a small press and spent, I estimate, about $20k on it over the intervening 8 years. I'm proud of the books I published but fuuuuuuuuuuuuu
posted by joannemerriam at 12:38 PM on December 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
nevercalm - if I remember right we were in sister professions, for me it was technical theatre. It was my art and job and a huge chunk of my social life. It's all gone. I hadn't made my own theatre for a couple of years before the pandemic but it was always possible and I got a least a bit of the artistic feeling at work. It was also weird for me because my theatre was able to keep us employed through the end of June so my industry was destroyed before my job was. I've just sort of been in rolling forms of grief for my art form being put on hold and my industry being destroyed in a way that will take decades to rebuild and grief for my job loss and grief for all my collaborators and friends who've lost their way of life and expression. Meanwhile my family is telling me how happy they are that I've moved closer and bought a "real" home because I don't need to be in a city with a theatre scene to make money. I've found a job in a totally new to me industry and I'm very lucky and I'm trying to diversify my hobbies but there is a constant voice in the back of my head saying "after you make your first furniture piece you need to take pictures and video so you can get a youtube presence and start selling what you make." I need to ignore that voice but capitalism makes that hard. Good for Seth that he's been able to not listen to that voice.
posted by Uncle at 12:43 PM on December 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Uncle at 12:43 PM on December 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
I would gladly trade a 4:20 accrument box of Horemheb for an ashtray.
posted by clavdivs at 12:53 PM on December 15, 2020
posted by clavdivs at 12:53 PM on December 15, 2020
I admit Rogen’s pottery talent surprised me. This is a reminder to myself: don’t judge a book by its stoner comedy.
posted by mundo at 1:22 PM on December 15, 2020
posted by mundo at 1:22 PM on December 15, 2020
‘I don’t think being good at things is the point of doing them...'
Yes! This! I was *just* talking with a friend about this. In fact, I just sent her this link.
Most of my hobbies are things I'm bad at.
Some I'm lazily bad at, like knitting. I have a knitting that I've been "working" on for years, since the literal day I learned the only stitch I know. Its name is Shitty Knitty and it's full of holes, dropped stitches, errant knots, and all kinds of weirdsies. I love Shitty Knitty, just the way it is.
Some hobbies I could be really good at if I practiced, but I enjoy novelty more than mastery. I really love finding historical recipes and trying to recreate them. Some dishes probably turn out awful because, well, beef aspic is inherently horrific. Some probably come out bad because I may lack the skills. I'll never really know. But regardless, the fun is in researching, collecting books, experimenting, and torturing my loved ones with sometimes incredible and sometimes eye-wateringly-terrible food.
My last hobby habit is to deliberately make things ugly because I think it's stupid and funny, like taking boxed cake mixes and turn them into creatively hideous Cake Fails. I love the challenge of out-uglying my previous cake. As in, so much food coloring your poop turns green, slightly burned around the edges so that the green coloring is kind of brownish-gray, holes that can't be hidden, pepto-pink lettering that just reads "DRUGS," and covered in edible, sugar googly eye decorations. Awful!
People, especially with the knitting and the history food, are often really confused why I don't want to "get better." I just don't, okay? Let me have fun!
posted by functionequalsform at 1:55 PM on December 15, 2020 [6 favorites]
Yes! This! I was *just* talking with a friend about this. In fact, I just sent her this link.
Most of my hobbies are things I'm bad at.
Some I'm lazily bad at, like knitting. I have a knitting that I've been "working" on for years, since the literal day I learned the only stitch I know. Its name is Shitty Knitty and it's full of holes, dropped stitches, errant knots, and all kinds of weirdsies. I love Shitty Knitty, just the way it is.
Some hobbies I could be really good at if I practiced, but I enjoy novelty more than mastery. I really love finding historical recipes and trying to recreate them. Some dishes probably turn out awful because, well, beef aspic is inherently horrific. Some probably come out bad because I may lack the skills. I'll never really know. But regardless, the fun is in researching, collecting books, experimenting, and torturing my loved ones with sometimes incredible and sometimes eye-wateringly-terrible food.
My last hobby habit is to deliberately make things ugly because I think it's stupid and funny, like taking boxed cake mixes and turn them into creatively hideous Cake Fails. I love the challenge of out-uglying my previous cake. As in, so much food coloring your poop turns green, slightly burned around the edges so that the green coloring is kind of brownish-gray, holes that can't be hidden, pepto-pink lettering that just reads "DRUGS," and covered in edible, sugar googly eye decorations. Awful!
People, especially with the knitting and the history food, are often really confused why I don't want to "get better." I just don't, okay? Let me have fun!
posted by functionequalsform at 1:55 PM on December 15, 2020 [6 favorites]
Seriously impressed with his ceramics, although for a guy who loves weed that much its a bit embarrassing he didnt use quarantine to learn to roll a crutch into his joints like an adult.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:10 PM on December 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:10 PM on December 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
I also make small ceramic art. Our shelves are full of odd blobs & ashtray-ish objects. I can relate to Seth's comment about how some pieces feel too nice to share and some are just too ugly to share. I can't resist experimenting with combining glazes, so there's a lot of ugly blobs and a few small serendipities. I'm not quitting my day job.
posted by ovvl at 2:54 PM on December 15, 2020
posted by ovvl at 2:54 PM on December 15, 2020
In the 90s I remember watching a talk show, I'm thinking Letterman, and one of his guests gave him a wooden bowl he had turned. I can't speak to its quality but it looked nice on TV and Letterman seemed to genuinely appreciate it. Back then it was just a hobby that this celebrity had without any expectation of it being anything more. I'm glad to see that for Rogan his pottery is still "just" a hobby too.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:25 PM on December 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:25 PM on December 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
any portmanteau in a storm, it was William H. Macy.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:38 PM on December 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:38 PM on December 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
Wow, that's it!
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:50 PM on December 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:50 PM on December 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm always struck that so often when we see someone who is good at something and seems to take joy from it, we assess whether they could make a living at it.
Except sex.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:08 AM on December 16, 2020 [4 favorites]
Except sex.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:08 AM on December 16, 2020 [4 favorites]
I've recently been turned onto the old TV show Connections, which is super interesting, but one thing that has struck me is that back in the 15th-19th-ish centuries, there wasn't so much silo-ization. People generally got good at or were interested in lots of things. We know it with the most famous ones, like DaVinci, but so many inventions and discoveries were made by people interested in something completely unrelated to their professional field.
I think these days, we silo [famous] people and assume that if they are good at one thing, such as their profession, then they dont have any other hobbies or interests that they also can take seriously. I think this is probably especially true for celebrities, where if you are known as having a certain skill, it can be difficult to move into or learn other skills, just because the people around you don't expect you to. Once you reach a certain level of expertise or famous-ness, then your ability to be recognized as a Jack-of-all-trades (or hobbyist of all trades) kind of goes away.
(If I still knew this old co-worker from a long time ago, I would absolutely send in this discussion. We had a company event at a bowling alley, and I bowl usually between 75-125. Not great but not terrible. This one coworker (female and I am female, so not sexism) would not stop trying to teach me how to bowl better. But I dont actually care about it that much to learn to do it better, I just want to have fun and I dont need to be better than I am to have fun.)
posted by LizBoBiz at 4:25 AM on December 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
I think these days, we silo [famous] people and assume that if they are good at one thing, such as their profession, then they dont have any other hobbies or interests that they also can take seriously. I think this is probably especially true for celebrities, where if you are known as having a certain skill, it can be difficult to move into or learn other skills, just because the people around you don't expect you to. Once you reach a certain level of expertise or famous-ness, then your ability to be recognized as a Jack-of-all-trades (or hobbyist of all trades) kind of goes away.
(If I still knew this old co-worker from a long time ago, I would absolutely send in this discussion. We had a company event at a bowling alley, and I bowl usually between 75-125. Not great but not terrible. This one coworker (female and I am female, so not sexism) would not stop trying to teach me how to bowl better. But I dont actually care about it that much to learn to do it better, I just want to have fun and I dont need to be better than I am to have fun.)
posted by LizBoBiz at 4:25 AM on December 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
“I'm always struck that so often when we see someone who is good at something and seems to take joy from it, we assess whether they could make a living at it.“
I always think this is because often the kind of jobs where you can do the think as a hobby are seen as more fun or more glamorous (even if that’s entirely untrue in reality) than jobs no one would do as a hobby. Plus I think a lot of these jobs are seen maybe unfairly as not work. Like if you could be a professional artist and paint portraits all day that’s seen as much better than being a accountant or something. So the suggestion is that the person might be able to trade up - even if it’s totally unrealistic and probably wouldn’t work.
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 4:56 AM on December 16, 2020
I always think this is because often the kind of jobs where you can do the think as a hobby are seen as more fun or more glamorous (even if that’s entirely untrue in reality) than jobs no one would do as a hobby. Plus I think a lot of these jobs are seen maybe unfairly as not work. Like if you could be a professional artist and paint portraits all day that’s seen as much better than being a accountant or something. So the suggestion is that the person might be able to trade up - even if it’s totally unrealistic and probably wouldn’t work.
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 4:56 AM on December 16, 2020
“I'm always struck that so often when we see someone who is good at something and seems to take joy from it, we assess whether they could make a living at it.“
We're just all desperately trying to escape our miserable lives at every turn, man. I actually like this impulse because it's a rare occasion on which we genuinely wish better lives for our fellow humans. When my mother asks for the 500th time "Have you thought about opening a bakery" I just hear "Look! An escape hatch from hell! Have you thought about taking it?"
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:47 AM on December 16, 2020 [4 favorites]
We're just all desperately trying to escape our miserable lives at every turn, man. I actually like this impulse because it's a rare occasion on which we genuinely wish better lives for our fellow humans. When my mother asks for the 500th time "Have you thought about opening a bakery" I just hear "Look! An escape hatch from hell! Have you thought about taking it?"
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:47 AM on December 16, 2020 [4 favorites]
MetaFilter: Except sex.
posted by nickmark at 10:25 AM on December 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by nickmark at 10:25 AM on December 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
When my mother asks for the 500th time "Have you thought about opening a bakery" I just hear "Look! An escape hatch from hell! Have you thought about taking it?"
It does seem like a complete waste of my life as an artistic person that I cannot use my skills and talents in order to survive/make a living and have to do stuff I hate and am only so-so-ish at in order to eat and have a home. But that's the way our world is set up, and I am Not A Business Person. If I had a dollar for every time someone said I should have a craft business....I might have a lot of ones but still couldn't make a living off that.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:29 PM on December 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
It does seem like a complete waste of my life as an artistic person that I cannot use my skills and talents in order to survive/make a living and have to do stuff I hate and am only so-so-ish at in order to eat and have a home. But that's the way our world is set up, and I am Not A Business Person. If I had a dollar for every time someone said I should have a craft business....I might have a lot of ones but still couldn't make a living off that.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:29 PM on December 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
"many, many serious ceramicists who're waiting for their co-op or community centre kilns to start running again."
A lot of articles note that Rogan is very popular in the local ceramics community and has been inviting local ceramicists to use his studio (one at a time) if they're lacking access to their usual places.
I've taken up watercolors during quarantine, I've been at it about six months, and I'm just delighted! I can make pictures on paper that look like the thing they are! That has never before been true of me and my stick-man approach to visual art before. I'm thrilled that it's a learnable skill and that I get to play with pretty colors.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:05 PM on December 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
A lot of articles note that Rogan is very popular in the local ceramics community and has been inviting local ceramicists to use his studio (one at a time) if they're lacking access to their usual places.
I've taken up watercolors during quarantine, I've been at it about six months, and I'm just delighted! I can make pictures on paper that look like the thing they are! That has never before been true of me and my stick-man approach to visual art before. I'm thrilled that it's a learnable skill and that I get to play with pretty colors.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:05 PM on December 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
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posted by Going To Maine at 5:58 PM on December 14, 2020 [9 favorites]