"An awesome sonic encounter"
December 19, 2020 11:45 AM Subscribe
Bassmasse is a chamber orchestra consisting of between 13 and 50 double basses. It was founded in 2012 by German double bassist/composer Sebastian Gramss.
Short documentary on Bassmasse 13 (German with English subtitles)
Bassmasse 50 at Moers Festival 2014
Bassmasse Sizilien Part One and Part Two (2015)
Bassmasse 50 at Eurojazz, Mexico City, 2017
Bassmasse 13 released their debut album in September 2020.
Bassmasse 50 released a live album, Schwarm, in 2013.
Short documentary on Bassmasse 13 (German with English subtitles)
Bassmasse 50 at Moers Festival 2014
Bassmasse Sizilien Part One and Part Two (2015)
Bassmasse 50 at Eurojazz, Mexico City, 2017
Bassmasse 13 released their debut album in September 2020.
Bassmasse 50 released a live album, Schwarm, in 2013.
This is too awesome. Even better than the low brass ensemble my friend’s kid used to play in.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:53 PM on December 19, 2020
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:53 PM on December 19, 2020
this is how it was supposed to be
posted by thelonius at 1:42 PM on December 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by thelonius at 1:42 PM on December 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Because they have a mandobass:
Mike Marshall and his Virtual Mandolin Orchestra - Lonesome Moonlight Waltz
posted by y2karl at 1:46 PM on December 19, 2020
Mike Marshall and his Virtual Mandolin Orchestra - Lonesome Moonlight Waltz
posted by y2karl at 1:46 PM on December 19, 2020
I'm pretty much in awe of classical double bassists. The bow is just merciless at exposing problems with your intonation, and getting a good tone with it seems far from trivial. Have you ever heard jazz bassists play arco? It usually leaves something to be desired ( a very famous jazz bassist released an album of Bach music that is.....it's best forgotten).
posted by thelonius at 2:29 PM on December 19, 2020
posted by thelonius at 2:29 PM on December 19, 2020
Goodness, it looks like playing the bass is bad for one’s posture. Is this true?
posted by ashbury at 2:31 PM on December 19, 2020
posted by ashbury at 2:31 PM on December 19, 2020
This may be a stupid question but...
What is the actual, physical difference between a cello and a double bass? I mean, say I'm making one of each: where does the process differ and how?
posted by Paul Slade at 2:41 PM on December 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
What is the actual, physical difference between a cello and a double bass? I mean, say I'm making one of each: where does the process differ and how?
posted by Paul Slade at 2:41 PM on December 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Goodness, it looks like playing the bass is bad for one’s posture. Is this true?
I would not be surprised if it could cause problems; it seems to be a very physically demanding instrument to play. I know that if you post on any bass forum that you are an electric player thinking of learning upright, you will be greeted with a chorus of people telling you that you absolutely need to get a teacher and learn correct fundamental technique so that you do not actually injure yourself trying to play it wrong.
I think that professional string players now pay a lot of attention to ergonomics and avoiding carpal tunnel, tendinitis, etc. So they have probably put some serious thought into how to play bass to avoid back problems or the like.
posted by thelonius at 2:43 PM on December 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
I would not be surprised if it could cause problems; it seems to be a very physically demanding instrument to play. I know that if you post on any bass forum that you are an electric player thinking of learning upright, you will be greeted with a chorus of people telling you that you absolutely need to get a teacher and learn correct fundamental technique so that you do not actually injure yourself trying to play it wrong.
I think that professional string players now pay a lot of attention to ergonomics and avoiding carpal tunnel, tendinitis, etc. So they have probably put some serious thought into how to play bass to avoid back problems or the like.
posted by thelonius at 2:43 PM on December 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
I would not be surprised if it could cause problems; it seems to be a very physically demanding instrument to play. I know that if you post on any bass forum that you are an electric player thinking of learning upright, you will be greeted with a chorus of people telling you that you absolutely need to get a teacher and learn correct fundamental technique so that you do not actually injure yourself trying to play it wrong.
This. I played bass guitar in bar bands for eight or nine years before I came into some cash and bought myself an upright. Being familiar with the one helped a bit with the other, but the finger strength needed* and the spans required** are an order of magnitude different (metaphorically). I took some lessons with an occasional bandmate who mostly plays and teaches violin and viola. His guidance was helpful with the left hand but crucial with the right. I learned a great deal about bowing from him which I never would worked out on my own. If you are me of 25 years ago and thinking of making the shift, I urge you to do as I did.
*When tuning up one time I snapped the E string at top end, the nut. The newly liberated end of the string moved with enough velocity to put a divot in my carpet. My recollection is that it is 3300 pounds of pressure on that low string. When one end is suddenly liberated, it relocates itself with a swiftness.
**I also realized after a decade of playing upright (and cello occasionally) that when I spread the fingers of both hands, the left hand span is more than inch wider than the right. I imagine years of making all those long reaches had stretched the tendons on one hand, rendering me slightly asymmetrical.
Look away, I am hideous.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:01 PM on December 19, 2020 [8 favorites]
This. I played bass guitar in bar bands for eight or nine years before I came into some cash and bought myself an upright. Being familiar with the one helped a bit with the other, but the finger strength needed* and the spans required** are an order of magnitude different (metaphorically). I took some lessons with an occasional bandmate who mostly plays and teaches violin and viola. His guidance was helpful with the left hand but crucial with the right. I learned a great deal about bowing from him which I never would worked out on my own. If you are me of 25 years ago and thinking of making the shift, I urge you to do as I did.
*When tuning up one time I snapped the E string at top end, the nut. The newly liberated end of the string moved with enough velocity to put a divot in my carpet. My recollection is that it is 3300 pounds of pressure on that low string. When one end is suddenly liberated, it relocates itself with a swiftness.
**I also realized after a decade of playing upright (and cello occasionally) that when I spread the fingers of both hands, the left hand span is more than inch wider than the right. I imagine years of making all those long reaches had stretched the tendons on one hand, rendering me slightly asymmetrical.
Look away, I am hideous.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:01 PM on December 19, 2020 [8 favorites]
What is the actual, physical difference between a cello and a double bass?
Double basses are much larger.
Here's an overview.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:43 PM on December 19, 2020
Double basses are much larger.
Here's an overview.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:43 PM on December 19, 2020
This is like a bizzaro world Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain, then?
posted by 3j0hn at 7:56 PM on December 19, 2020
posted by 3j0hn at 7:56 PM on December 19, 2020
Truly the aces of basses.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:54 AM on December 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:54 AM on December 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
What is the actual, physical difference between a cello and a double bass?
Biggest difference (other than register) is that bass open strings are tuned in intervals of a perfect fourth, while cello open strings (and violins & violas) are tuned in intervals of perfect fifths. So fingering, L hand positions, etc., are quite different for a bass player. Also, the size makes a big difference: bowing a cello still feels like playing an instrument meant to be bowed, while bowing a double bass feels somewhere between playing an instrument and sawing down a medium-sized tree.
(Bonus bass joke: why was the double bass player angry with the timpani player? Because the timpanist turned one of their tuning pegs and won't tell them which one! Ha!)
(Also, because this thread is about double bassin', here is one of the most bad-ass, virtuosic passages of section bass writing in the orchestral repertoire, by good ol' LvB. And bonus, if you listen from that link's timestamp for about five minutes, you'll hear the basses--after some argument with the rest of the orchestra--offer them one of the most famous melodies of all time, and then the orchestra unfolds the most exquisite set of orchestral variations I've ever heard, on one of the most insipid tunes I've ever heard. It's magnificent. Especially because it's followed by basically an entire cantata, inside the last movement of symphony. WTF, who does that.)
posted by LooseFilter at 7:21 AM on December 20, 2020 [6 favorites]
Biggest difference (other than register) is that bass open strings are tuned in intervals of a perfect fourth, while cello open strings (and violins & violas) are tuned in intervals of perfect fifths. So fingering, L hand positions, etc., are quite different for a bass player. Also, the size makes a big difference: bowing a cello still feels like playing an instrument meant to be bowed, while bowing a double bass feels somewhere between playing an instrument and sawing down a medium-sized tree.
(Bonus bass joke: why was the double bass player angry with the timpani player? Because the timpanist turned one of their tuning pegs and won't tell them which one! Ha!)
(Also, because this thread is about double bassin', here is one of the most bad-ass, virtuosic passages of section bass writing in the orchestral repertoire, by good ol' LvB. And bonus, if you listen from that link's timestamp for about five minutes, you'll hear the basses--after some argument with the rest of the orchestra--offer them one of the most famous melodies of all time, and then the orchestra unfolds the most exquisite set of orchestral variations I've ever heard, on one of the most insipid tunes I've ever heard. It's magnificent. Especially because it's followed by basically an entire cantata, inside the last movement of symphony. WTF, who does that.)
posted by LooseFilter at 7:21 AM on December 20, 2020 [6 favorites]
I'm wondering what differences in lutherie there are - bracing, soundposts, neck joint, all that stuff. Surely a bass is not just a cello blown up in size.
posted by thelonius at 10:18 AM on December 20, 2020
posted by thelonius at 10:18 AM on December 20, 2020
Very far from a luthier, but I have a bass to stare at and have stared at cellos in orchestral settings.
Most differences come from two things:
- Basses are a lot bigger, so some things that you could do on a cello are no longer practical on a bass.
- Basses weren't standardized until relatively recently compared with a cello, so more variants exist.
some random examples...
Tuning pegs: Because the string tension is pretty high, basses usually have geared tuning pegs and are made out of metal, while cello tuning pegs are often just... ebony wood pegs. I've never seen a fine tuner on a bass, while you might see them on a cello (or just on the A string). My high school orchestra teacher had a special little widget for detuning basses so you can easily replace the strings.
Bridge: Bass bridges are often adjustable on both legs (so you can pretty easily adjust the action of the strings). They are also honking large pieces of wood.
Wood: When buying basses you learn about "laminated/plywood," "carved," and "hybrid" basses. I've never bought a cello, but maybe it's there as well. With large pieces of wood, there's a pretty big concern about developing cracks as humidity fluctuates. Laminated basses use material to especially fix that problem, though the wood isn't as "good" as a carved bass. A "hybrid" uses laminate material for some, but not all of the parts. For some genres of music, you might prefer one kind to another.
Body shape: The body shapes are different (bass wings are less prominent, bottom looks "fatter" relative to the top on a bass). The most common form isn't that different from a violin, but there are other variants that are pretty different.
Extension: Especially in symphonies, you will see the bass have a low C extension sticking out so that composers can keep pretending that a bass is just a cello but down an octave. (It also exists because the modern bass design wasn't really standardized until the 20th century, so some older composer's works might be impossible to play otherwise. Also, check out this 1716 three string bass taken around 1865 by a dude who was still actively using it.)
Neck: The point where the neck of a cello meets the body is relatively flat, while on the bass it's more prominent. When buying a bass you learn about "D neck" and "Eb neck", which is basically "when my left hand hits the body, am I at a D or an Eb on the G string?" I don't think you have that sort of variation with cellos.
Bows: Bass bows come in french and german styles. The french style is pretty similar to a cello
but bigger (though I think the way you hold the bow is a little different), but the german style is very different.
Cases: I don't think I have ever seen a soft shell cello case, but most bassists (if they are traveling by car or foot) have soft cases because it's otherwise an even bigger pain dragging the thing about. Basses aren't that heavy (though they are really cumbersome), but hard cases are.
posted by getao at 5:15 PM on December 20, 2020 [6 favorites]
Most differences come from two things:
- Basses are a lot bigger, so some things that you could do on a cello are no longer practical on a bass.
- Basses weren't standardized until relatively recently compared with a cello, so more variants exist.
some random examples...
Tuning pegs: Because the string tension is pretty high, basses usually have geared tuning pegs and are made out of metal, while cello tuning pegs are often just... ebony wood pegs. I've never seen a fine tuner on a bass, while you might see them on a cello (or just on the A string). My high school orchestra teacher had a special little widget for detuning basses so you can easily replace the strings.
Bridge: Bass bridges are often adjustable on both legs (so you can pretty easily adjust the action of the strings). They are also honking large pieces of wood.
Wood: When buying basses you learn about "laminated/plywood," "carved," and "hybrid" basses. I've never bought a cello, but maybe it's there as well. With large pieces of wood, there's a pretty big concern about developing cracks as humidity fluctuates. Laminated basses use material to especially fix that problem, though the wood isn't as "good" as a carved bass. A "hybrid" uses laminate material for some, but not all of the parts. For some genres of music, you might prefer one kind to another.
Body shape: The body shapes are different (bass wings are less prominent, bottom looks "fatter" relative to the top on a bass). The most common form isn't that different from a violin, but there are other variants that are pretty different.
Extension: Especially in symphonies, you will see the bass have a low C extension sticking out so that composers can keep pretending that a bass is just a cello but down an octave. (It also exists because the modern bass design wasn't really standardized until the 20th century, so some older composer's works might be impossible to play otherwise. Also, check out this 1716 three string bass taken around 1865 by a dude who was still actively using it.)
Neck: The point where the neck of a cello meets the body is relatively flat, while on the bass it's more prominent. When buying a bass you learn about "D neck" and "Eb neck", which is basically "when my left hand hits the body, am I at a D or an Eb on the G string?" I don't think you have that sort of variation with cellos.
Bows: Bass bows come in french and german styles. The french style is pretty similar to a cello
but bigger (though I think the way you hold the bow is a little different), but the german style is very different.
Cases: I don't think I have ever seen a soft shell cello case, but most bassists (if they are traveling by car or foot) have soft cases because it's otherwise an even bigger pain dragging the thing about. Basses aren't that heavy (though they are really cumbersome), but hard cases are.
posted by getao at 5:15 PM on December 20, 2020 [6 favorites]
Cases: I don't think I have ever seen a soft shell cello case, but most bassists (if they are traveling by car or foot) have soft cases because it's otherwise an even bigger pain dragging the thing about. Basses aren't that heavy (though they are really cumbersome), but hard cases are.
I had a soft case for my cello, and a hard one for the upright bass. Many’s the time I have been hauling the bass up two flights of stairs wondering why I didn’t become a better harmonica player.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:57 AM on December 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
I had a soft case for my cello, and a hard one for the upright bass. Many’s the time I have been hauling the bass up two flights of stairs wondering why I didn’t become a better harmonica player.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:57 AM on December 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
This is fantastic music, thanks for posting.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:30 AM on December 22, 2020
posted by soundguy99 at 7:30 AM on December 22, 2020
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posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:28 PM on December 19, 2020 [8 favorites]