Little Boxes
December 22, 2020 8:13 AM Subscribe
An artist pretended to be a billionaire to infiltrate New York’s most elite apartments and take ‘ugly pictures of very fancy buildings’
Via artnet:
Via artnet:
With a clever story and some acting skills, Schmied gained access to some of the city’s most coveted properties and took photos of the generic signifiers of outrageous wealth.
"Schmied posed as “Gabriella” (the artist’s middle name), a mother of one whose husband is an antiques dealer (she had a friend go along with the ruse). Based on the supposed glamour of her husband’s profession, the artist talked her way into 25 of the city’s priciest properties, including architect Rafael Viñoly’s 432 Park Avenue, where a 96th-floor unit sold for $87.7 million in 2016. She also infiltrated apartments at the Time Warner Center, 432 Park Avenue, and Central Park Tower, the tallest residential building in the world.
Loved this story. There's a long interview with Schmied on Curbed:
posted by adrianhon at 8:18 AM on December 22, 2020 [8 favorites]
Photos look too much like good photos to really work in that "bad photo" angle for me. Any of these would work just as well in an ad for the property. I hate this next point when it's opposite is brought up when viewing art, but I really think I could take worse photos than these. Anyway, my commentary here is of very low value since I've not actually seen the artists work, at best I've seen a website's small jpgs of part of her work. I wonder if the book she's releasing soon will be available online or if it's reserved for the 1,000 people.
In many places, the real estate agents’ sales patter is transcribed atop the photos, including trash-talk about their competitors’ properties.
This seems like significant part of the work but is conspicuously absent from the article, would definitely be curious to see these in their complete form.
posted by GoblinHoney at 8:29 AM on December 22, 2020 [17 favorites]
In many places, the real estate agents’ sales patter is transcribed atop the photos, including trash-talk about their competitors’ properties.
This seems like significant part of the work but is conspicuously absent from the article, would definitely be curious to see these in their complete form.
posted by GoblinHoney at 8:29 AM on December 22, 2020 [17 favorites]
I don't get this. She didn't uncover anything (well, I guess she uncovered the sexism in the real estate industry (i.e. her being asked for her husband's name)). I was expecting her "ugly pictures" to expose shoddy workmanship or low quality materials, but he apartments are as expected — very nice and very expensive, with great views. Her pictures aren't "ugly", they're just not as well-lit and composed as the ones the real estate agents use. The real estate agents are probably pretty desperate to sell these properties, so anyone who seems like they might be legitimate is going to be able to get a tour. And of course, the agents are trying to sell her by telling her that the materials are the best and that her child would have a wonderful life growing up there. That's what they do. What am I missing here?
posted by jonathanhughes at 8:35 AM on December 22, 2020 [38 favorites]
posted by jonathanhughes at 8:35 AM on December 22, 2020 [38 favorites]
“I do a lot of photography, but it’s very objectively, technically, not good photography,” the artist told Artnet News. “These are ugly pictures of very fancy buildings.”
posted by hat_eater at 9:00 AM on December 22, 2020
posted by hat_eater at 9:00 AM on December 22, 2020
These are reasonably competent pictures of very fancy buildings.
posted by jonathanhughes at 9:08 AM on December 22, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by jonathanhughes at 9:08 AM on December 22, 2020 [11 favorites]
These photos look so sterile. No one lives there. And where are the books?
posted by njohnson23 at 9:09 AM on December 22, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 9:09 AM on December 22, 2020 [2 favorites]
from the interview:
I obviously built a persona, because my real persona would not be granted access. Basically the way it worked was I called up the first agency asking, “I would like to see this property.” And I had to respond immediately to whatever they asked. The first question — it’s funny what it was — was “can you give us the name of your husband?” This came back many, many times, this question.
posted by dum spiro spero at 9:09 AM on December 22, 2020 [2 favorites]
I obviously built a persona, because my real persona would not be granted access. Basically the way it worked was I called up the first agency asking, “I would like to see this property.” And I had to respond immediately to whatever they asked. The first question — it’s funny what it was — was “can you give us the name of your husband?” This came back many, many times, this question.
posted by dum spiro spero at 9:09 AM on December 22, 2020 [2 favorites]
The poor’s weapon against the rich is aesthetic sensibility. Work with what you have!
posted by Going To Maine at 9:23 AM on December 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 9:23 AM on December 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
These photos look so sterile. No one lives there. And where are the books?
I assume that's explained by the fact that all these properties are up for sale. Many would presumably be brand new. In cases like that, white walls and empty rooms allow potential buyers to project their own taste on the room. The minimal set dressing here was presumably done by the real estate agent with the same principles in mind.
posted by Paul Slade at 9:26 AM on December 22, 2020 [6 favorites]
I assume that's explained by the fact that all these properties are up for sale. Many would presumably be brand new. In cases like that, white walls and empty rooms allow potential buyers to project their own taste on the room. The minimal set dressing here was presumably done by the real estate agent with the same principles in mind.
posted by Paul Slade at 9:26 AM on December 22, 2020 [6 favorites]
I don't get this. She didn't uncover anything
They look identical - if maybe a little less sleek and professionally lit - to the type of photos that appear almost weekly in the high end real estate ads on the inside covers of the New York Times Magazine.
posted by ryanshepard at 9:29 AM on December 22, 2020 [1 favorite]
They look identical - if maybe a little less sleek and professionally lit - to the type of photos that appear almost weekly in the high end real estate ads on the inside covers of the New York Times Magazine.
posted by ryanshepard at 9:29 AM on December 22, 2020 [1 favorite]
These photos look so sterile. No one lives there. And where are the books?
These aren’t homes, they’re expensive airport lounges, expensive malls. They’re places you pass through, not places anyone lives.
(And yes, they are profoundly, spiritually ugly.)
posted by mhoye at 9:34 AM on December 22, 2020 [10 favorites]
These aren’t homes, they’re expensive airport lounges, expensive malls. They’re places you pass through, not places anyone lives.
(And yes, they are profoundly, spiritually ugly.)
posted by mhoye at 9:34 AM on December 22, 2020 [10 favorites]
These photos look so sterile. No one lives there.
Most of them are never intended to be inhabited -- they're essentially safety deposit boxes for extremely wealthy people. Real estate transactions are, for whatever reason, somewhat less scrutinized than large bank deposits so if you're a wealthy Russian/Chinese/Anyone this is a tidy way to stash money abroad.
They simply represent a block of money, placed in a specific location, which can be traded off against other similar blocks of money located elsewhere. If you end up needing some cash (because, say, you've pissed off Putin) then you sell a couple of them. Scatter a few around the world in varying locales, and you're pretty well-armored against financial ruin as they're more difficult to seize/steal than many other assets. Once in awhile, sure, someone decides to live in one, but that just props up the value anyway.
Think of them like baseball cards or something, not dwellings. Many of them will never see a single human staying in them overnight -- the only "occupants" are cleaning staff who pass through weekly.
posted by aramaic at 9:35 AM on December 22, 2020 [48 favorites]
Most of them are never intended to be inhabited -- they're essentially safety deposit boxes for extremely wealthy people. Real estate transactions are, for whatever reason, somewhat less scrutinized than large bank deposits so if you're a wealthy Russian/Chinese/Anyone this is a tidy way to stash money abroad.
They simply represent a block of money, placed in a specific location, which can be traded off against other similar blocks of money located elsewhere. If you end up needing some cash (because, say, you've pissed off Putin) then you sell a couple of them. Scatter a few around the world in varying locales, and you're pretty well-armored against financial ruin as they're more difficult to seize/steal than many other assets. Once in awhile, sure, someone decides to live in one, but that just props up the value anyway.
Think of them like baseball cards or something, not dwellings. Many of them will never see a single human staying in them overnight -- the only "occupants" are cleaning staff who pass through weekly.
posted by aramaic at 9:35 AM on December 22, 2020 [48 favorites]
Real estate transactions are, for whatever reason, somewhat less scrutinized than large bank deposits so if you're a wealthy Russian/Chinese/Anyone this is a tidy way to stash money abroad.
I've never quite understood this -- are people paying for real estate with literal briefcases full of cash?
posted by pwnguin at 9:37 AM on December 22, 2020
I've never quite understood this -- are people paying for real estate with literal briefcases full of cash?
posted by pwnguin at 9:37 AM on December 22, 2020
Of course not. A corporation will loan another corporation a chunk of money that is used to buy the property, and then another corporation will buy the debt, and then at some point much later, once the purchasing corporation goes out of business, write the debt off as bad.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:44 AM on December 22, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:44 AM on December 22, 2020 [10 favorites]
I'm not sure the whole undercover ruse was necessary. I know someone who wanted a shot of the BLM street painting in DC from a specific rooftop and basically just called around until he found the building management office and asked if they'd let him up on the roof.
posted by octothorpe at 9:48 AM on December 22, 2020
posted by octothorpe at 9:48 AM on December 22, 2020
They simply represent a block of money, placed in a specific location
A friend, Chinese National with NY broker's license, got an inquiry from China, looking for a block of apartments in one building, must be $200MM or more. Emphasis on well known address, Park Avenue etc, ready to buy sight unseen.
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:49 AM on December 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
A friend, Chinese National with NY broker's license, got an inquiry from China, looking for a block of apartments in one building, must be $200MM or more. Emphasis on well known address, Park Avenue etc, ready to buy sight unseen.
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:49 AM on December 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
I don't get the criticism of sameness. If you come to my neighborhood of 1000-1500 sq ft homes built within 5 years of each other they all have many of the same features, made up of the things people liked (or could afford) 60 years ago with a nod to the local environment.
If I ever found myself 80 floors up in a Central Park adjacent apartment I'd be more surprised if it didn't have marble countertops and floor to ceiling windows.
I guess it can be disappointing to find out that most people with money don't do magical things with it, they just have better views and fixtures than you.
posted by patrick rhett at 10:07 AM on December 22, 2020 [13 favorites]
If I ever found myself 80 floors up in a Central Park adjacent apartment I'd be more surprised if it didn't have marble countertops and floor to ceiling windows.
I guess it can be disappointing to find out that most people with money don't do magical things with it, they just have better views and fixtures than you.
posted by patrick rhett at 10:07 AM on December 22, 2020 [13 favorites]
A roof shot escorted by security cannot be possibly as hard to see as a showing of a property for sale. I would like to see the whole collection too though, cause these photos are not "bad."
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:07 AM on December 22, 2020
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:07 AM on December 22, 2020
Aramaic beat me to it.
These places are one of the unfortunate consequences of our overcapitalized age. The value (such as it is) is location and view. The fixtures are expensive, we will assume not Home Depot, but if not shoddy per se, neither are they anything to warm the heart.
My grandfather designed houses for the rich before the second war, and he was scrupulous about hiring skilled craftsmen who could turn out a proper coffered ceiling, decorative plaster work, parquet flooring, carved wood bannisters - all that good stuff that realtors are talking about when they describe Manhattan RE as pre-war. That kind of work was cheaper in those days, and moneyed people expected it.
These days, even assuming you could find those craftsmen....
the only "occupants" are cleaning staff who pass through weekly.
If London is any indication, I wouldn't even bet on that.
I guess it can be disappointing to find out that most people with money don't do magical things with it
The sorrow is that they could do magical things. They could recreate Vaux-le-Vicomte, bring back small armies of the above mentioned craftsmen, give the world something to treasure years after they're dead and gone. Instead, they finance shoeboxes in the sky. With Jacuzzi tubs.
posted by BWA at 10:17 AM on December 22, 2020 [29 favorites]
These places are one of the unfortunate consequences of our overcapitalized age. The value (such as it is) is location and view. The fixtures are expensive, we will assume not Home Depot, but if not shoddy per se, neither are they anything to warm the heart.
My grandfather designed houses for the rich before the second war, and he was scrupulous about hiring skilled craftsmen who could turn out a proper coffered ceiling, decorative plaster work, parquet flooring, carved wood bannisters - all that good stuff that realtors are talking about when they describe Manhattan RE as pre-war. That kind of work was cheaper in those days, and moneyed people expected it.
These days, even assuming you could find those craftsmen....
the only "occupants" are cleaning staff who pass through weekly.
If London is any indication, I wouldn't even bet on that.
I guess it can be disappointing to find out that most people with money don't do magical things with it
The sorrow is that they could do magical things. They could recreate Vaux-le-Vicomte, bring back small armies of the above mentioned craftsmen, give the world something to treasure years after they're dead and gone. Instead, they finance shoeboxes in the sky. With Jacuzzi tubs.
posted by BWA at 10:17 AM on December 22, 2020 [29 favorites]
Rich people are actually quite boring, turns out.
posted by emjaybee at 10:17 AM on December 22, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 10:17 AM on December 22, 2020 [5 favorites]
The photos are kind of bad. They have a huge amount of digital noise in the interior parts of the shots meaning that they probably shot hand-held with a high-iso setting and/or used something light Lightroom to bring the shadow way up.
posted by octothorpe at 10:18 AM on December 22, 2020
posted by octothorpe at 10:18 AM on December 22, 2020
I used to wander around on a luxury capitalism for men site ( I can't remember the name but you would know it). I thought that luxury homes would be awesome and dream worthy, and they were really nice. However shortly I came to the conclusion that there really wasn't much creativity in designing these homes, so much the same: mid century mod furniture? check. Undressed concrete? check. Nicely finished exotic hardwoods? check. The only differences, this one's in the woods, this one at the beach, this one (surprisingly) on a prairie.
posted by evilDoug at 10:21 AM on December 22, 2020
posted by evilDoug at 10:21 AM on December 22, 2020
But the VIEWS aren't bad. The interior design comes thru in these bad shots the same as it would in pro shots. Really not getting it. Bad art is bad?
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:22 AM on December 22, 2020
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:22 AM on December 22, 2020
> These days, even assuming you could find those craftsmen....
They're available, and seriously not all that hard to find. They just don't get jobs in places like this because the last thing the design-build company wants to do is lose an unnecessary $200,000 from the margins on their $50,000,000 sale, because they know the client DGAF -- they are buying it by phone or one of their personal assistants are buying it on their behalf, and the most utility the place could possibly get will be for housing the billionaire's kept woman (or man).
> These are reasonably competent pictures of very fancy buildings.
By the standards of realtor phone-cam photos done for common residential listings, yeah, the photos are great. The agencies that run listings for elite residences will bring in specialist architectural photographers with expensive specialty cameras, lighting and props crews. By those standards the pics are bad.
posted by at by at 10:30 AM on December 22, 2020 [2 favorites]
They're available, and seriously not all that hard to find. They just don't get jobs in places like this because the last thing the design-build company wants to do is lose an unnecessary $200,000 from the margins on their $50,000,000 sale, because they know the client DGAF -- they are buying it by phone or one of their personal assistants are buying it on their behalf, and the most utility the place could possibly get will be for housing the billionaire's kept woman (or man).
> These are reasonably competent pictures of very fancy buildings.
By the standards of realtor phone-cam photos done for common residential listings, yeah, the photos are great. The agencies that run listings for elite residences will bring in specialist architectural photographers with expensive specialty cameras, lighting and props crews. By those standards the pics are bad.
posted by at by at 10:30 AM on December 22, 2020 [2 favorites]
"The photos are kind of bad. They have a huge amount of digital noise in the interior parts of the shots meaning that they probably shot hand-held with a high-iso setting and/or used something light Lightroom to bring the shadow way up."
In the article linked in adrianhon's post, she says she shoots on film. And they were certainly shot handheld. I think it would be pretty weird to show up to a real estate viewing with a tripod.
Of course, the photos were scanned and probably manipulated further. But these photos are only slightly "bad" on a technical level. Compositionally, they're not horrible. I think anyone looking at these photos in a gallery (unless they have a photo background) wouldn't think about grain or noise, and the photos would seem pretty average. Everyone's a photographer now, so people are used to average photos.
She's going to have to try a lot harder if she wants anyone to think she's no good!
posted by jonathanhughes at 10:31 AM on December 22, 2020 [1 favorite]
In the article linked in adrianhon's post, she says she shoots on film. And they were certainly shot handheld. I think it would be pretty weird to show up to a real estate viewing with a tripod.
Of course, the photos were scanned and probably manipulated further. But these photos are only slightly "bad" on a technical level. Compositionally, they're not horrible. I think anyone looking at these photos in a gallery (unless they have a photo background) wouldn't think about grain or noise, and the photos would seem pretty average. Everyone's a photographer now, so people are used to average photos.
She's going to have to try a lot harder if she wants anyone to think she's no good!
posted by jonathanhughes at 10:31 AM on December 22, 2020 [1 favorite]
Americans can't have healthcare because the system that does this is too important.
posted by Reyturner at 10:31 AM on December 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Reyturner at 10:31 AM on December 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
If London is any indication, I wouldn't even bet on that.
...true, weekly is a bit of an overstatement, but more broadly that's actually one of the advantages of an NYC condominium vs. a row house -- there's a built-in limit on how much you can just "let them go" before the HOA intervenes (at your expense), so the windows will stay sealed, the pipes remain functional, etc. A row house can nearly collapse before anyone does anything (mainly if you endanger the common walls), but if your lack of maintenance on your safety deposit box fucks up the safety deposit box downstairs your agent will hear of it, and the maintenance staff will probably be in your unit a couple times a year for one reason or another.
Of course, on the hand equivalent row houses are purchased mostly for the land, not so much the house that sits on it.
posted by aramaic at 10:33 AM on December 22, 2020
...true, weekly is a bit of an overstatement, but more broadly that's actually one of the advantages of an NYC condominium vs. a row house -- there's a built-in limit on how much you can just "let them go" before the HOA intervenes (at your expense), so the windows will stay sealed, the pipes remain functional, etc. A row house can nearly collapse before anyone does anything (mainly if you endanger the common walls), but if your lack of maintenance on your safety deposit box fucks up the safety deposit box downstairs your agent will hear of it, and the maintenance staff will probably be in your unit a couple times a year for one reason or another.
Of course, on the hand equivalent row houses are purchased mostly for the land, not so much the house that sits on it.
posted by aramaic at 10:33 AM on December 22, 2020
The photos are bad in that they reveal how tawdry these places are. Even the views are revealed in the photos as demeaning, sterile and alienating by virtue of the surrounding interiors.
posted by No Robots at 10:34 AM on December 22, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by No Robots at 10:34 AM on December 22, 2020 [2 favorites]
this is definitely an art piece that’s being presented as Content; it’s really speaking a different language than a lot of commenters seem to be expecting.
Anyway, I love it, and the artist is really interested in private vs public spaces and I think this is a great exploration of that. Especially since they’re private spaces that “everyone” “knows” won’t necessarily be occupied, but the agents and the artist are playing these roles and pretending to imagine raising children here or imagining why her chef might like the kitchen.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 10:36 AM on December 22, 2020 [14 favorites]
Anyway, I love it, and the artist is really interested in private vs public spaces and I think this is a great exploration of that. Especially since they’re private spaces that “everyone” “knows” won’t necessarily be occupied, but the agents and the artist are playing these roles and pretending to imagine raising children here or imagining why her chef might like the kitchen.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 10:36 AM on December 22, 2020 [14 favorites]
I think it's because I'm addicted to Zillow. Show me the TRULY UGLY things. I KNOW that these apartments have them...but they're not in these photos.
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:38 AM on December 22, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:38 AM on December 22, 2020 [5 favorites]
Most of them are never intended to be inhabited
This is certainly the case, part of the implicit criticism, and a very good reason we need to fundamentally change real estate in the United States.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:39 AM on December 22, 2020 [1 favorite]
This is certainly the case, part of the implicit criticism, and a very good reason we need to fundamentally change real estate in the United States.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:39 AM on December 22, 2020 [1 favorite]
The sorrow is that they could do magical things. They could recreate Vaux-le-Vicomte, bring back small armies of the above mentioned craftsmen, give the world something to treasure years after they're dead and gone.
There are millions of people in NYC, and many of them are very rich, and many of them are purchasing magical things, made by skilled artisans. See this recent New Yorker profile of Mark Ellison, "the best carpenter in New York, by some accounts, though that hardly covers it. Depending on the job, Ellison is also a welder, a sculptor, a contractor, a cabinetmaker, an inventor, and an industrial designer."
The people who spend millions of dollars to have him renovate their homes certainly have better taste than people who shop for multi-million dollar cookie-cutter condos (and better taste than I do, I'm sure). Whether that makes them better people, I honestly don't know. Seems like they are still not very good at sharing.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 10:41 AM on December 22, 2020 [8 favorites]
There are millions of people in NYC, and many of them are very rich, and many of them are purchasing magical things, made by skilled artisans. See this recent New Yorker profile of Mark Ellison, "the best carpenter in New York, by some accounts, though that hardly covers it. Depending on the job, Ellison is also a welder, a sculptor, a contractor, a cabinetmaker, an inventor, and an industrial designer."
The people who spend millions of dollars to have him renovate their homes certainly have better taste than people who shop for multi-million dollar cookie-cutter condos (and better taste than I do, I'm sure). Whether that makes them better people, I honestly don't know. Seems like they are still not very good at sharing.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 10:41 AM on December 22, 2020 [8 favorites]
Harlan Ellison took that hire-the-best-artisans approach with home in LA, which wound up being nicknamed Ellison Wonderland as a result. I often wonder what's become of the place since his death in 2018.
posted by Paul Slade at 10:55 AM on December 22, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 10:55 AM on December 22, 2020 [2 favorites]
The sorrow is that they could do magical things.
I agree in that I think a good Versailles or two would be a lot better at hastening the (financial) revolution.
posted by patrick rhett at 11:21 AM on December 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
I agree in that I think a good Versailles or two would be a lot better at hastening the (financial) revolution.
posted by patrick rhett at 11:21 AM on December 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
equivalent row houses are purchased mostly for the land, not so much the house that sits on it.
I think the value of these multi-million apartments is even more based on their location/land value than an average row house. Should anyone ever actually buy one to live in, the cost of completely renovating the bland decor would be a tiny rounding error on the purchase price. Complaining that they have dull design is like complaining that a bar of gold bullion is ugly compared to gold jewellery.
They are a sign that there are a lot of very rich people with a belief that you cannot go wrong investing in property. That kind of blind optimism is often the sign of a market top.
Apartments typically come with fixed annual service charge of around 1.5% of the properties value. So a $20 million apartment which falls in value to $10 million could still have a $300,000 annual service charge. In a prolonged real estate downturn those charges depress the sale price even further. Ultimately they could make these places unsellable.
posted by Lanark at 11:32 AM on December 22, 2020 [1 favorite]
I think the value of these multi-million apartments is even more based on their location/land value than an average row house. Should anyone ever actually buy one to live in, the cost of completely renovating the bland decor would be a tiny rounding error on the purchase price. Complaining that they have dull design is like complaining that a bar of gold bullion is ugly compared to gold jewellery.
They are a sign that there are a lot of very rich people with a belief that you cannot go wrong investing in property. That kind of blind optimism is often the sign of a market top.
Apartments typically come with fixed annual service charge of around 1.5% of the properties value. So a $20 million apartment which falls in value to $10 million could still have a $300,000 annual service charge. In a prolonged real estate downturn those charges depress the sale price even further. Ultimately they could make these places unsellable.
posted by Lanark at 11:32 AM on December 22, 2020 [1 favorite]
Ultimately they could make these places unsellable.
That would be so, so, so fantastic. Which probably means it's unlikely, but I'm a pessimist.
posted by aramaic at 11:34 AM on December 22, 2020
That would be so, so, so fantastic. Which probably means it's unlikely, but I'm a pessimist.
posted by aramaic at 11:34 AM on December 22, 2020
shoeboxes in the sky. With Jacuzzi tubs.
You had a jacuzzi tub in your shoebox?? All we had was a pothole next to our shoebox in the middle of the street when it rained!
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:49 AM on December 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
You had a jacuzzi tub in your shoebox?? All we had was a pothole next to our shoebox in the middle of the street when it rained!
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:49 AM on December 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
I don't get the criticism of sameness. If you come to my neighborhood of 1000-1500 sq ft homes built within 5 years of each other they all have many of the same features, made up of the things people liked (or could afford) 60 years ago with a nod to the local environment.
When I drive past rows of identical beige houses in a subdivision, I don't think that look that way because the developer had bad taste. They look that way because the developer wanted to save money. The people who live in them all made some sort of compromise between location, size, neighborhood, quality, and cost - they probably don't want to live in a row of identical beige houses, either.
Which is why it's just kind of ... ironic ... to me, that people with billions of dollars are buying identical apartments. A lot of them aren't going to live in them, and if they do live in them, a lot of them are probably going to be decorating in the 1%'s version of beige.
It wouldn't make anyone's life better but their own if they were more individual, but the fact that they're cookie cutter just drives home how pointless it is for people to have that kind of wealth in the first place.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:34 PM on December 22, 2020 [7 favorites]
When I drive past rows of identical beige houses in a subdivision, I don't think that look that way because the developer had bad taste. They look that way because the developer wanted to save money. The people who live in them all made some sort of compromise between location, size, neighborhood, quality, and cost - they probably don't want to live in a row of identical beige houses, either.
Which is why it's just kind of ... ironic ... to me, that people with billions of dollars are buying identical apartments. A lot of them aren't going to live in them, and if they do live in them, a lot of them are probably going to be decorating in the 1%'s version of beige.
It wouldn't make anyone's life better but their own if they were more individual, but the fact that they're cookie cutter just drives home how pointless it is for people to have that kind of wealth in the first place.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:34 PM on December 22, 2020 [7 favorites]
Of course not. A corporation will loan another corporation a chunk of money that is used to buy the property, and then another corporation will buy the debt, and then at some point much later, once the purchasing corporation goes out of business, write the debt off as bad.
At what point do I deposit 30 million dollars cash in a bank to write that check though?
posted by pwnguin at 12:41 PM on December 22, 2020
At what point do I deposit 30 million dollars cash in a bank to write that check though?
posted by pwnguin at 12:41 PM on December 22, 2020
Following up on Mr. Know-it-some, the St Louis couple famous for pulling guns on a protest march seem to have done a lovely job of restoring a piece of hundred-year-old Romanticism. They’re still dangerous assholes! The house is still the legacy of all the artists and craftspeople who worked on it! Sometimes the latter outlasts the former, not that that’s a balance.
Since the actual artists and craftspeople can themselves be dangerous assholes, my takeaway is 1) beauty and goodness are different things and 2) it’s up to society to reward the one and not the other.
Since the actual artists and craftspeople can themselves be dangerous assholes, my takeaway is 1) beauty and goodness are different things and 2) it’s up to society to reward the one and not the other.
The just is fair, the beautiful is fair,posted by clew at 12:46 PM on December 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
The latter common and the former rare -
If we could use the surplus for the deficit
We’d make a fairer, fairer world of it.
All we had was a pothole
You had a pothole? Luxury! We just had the septic tank next to the grocery bag we lived in!
posted by evilDoug at 12:56 PM on December 22, 2020 [5 favorites]
You had a pothole? Luxury! We just had the septic tank next to the grocery bag we lived in!
posted by evilDoug at 12:56 PM on December 22, 2020 [5 favorites]
All we had was a pool of vomit from a flea that escaped from the rotten dog carcass we lived in.
posted by Don Pepino at 1:18 PM on December 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 1:18 PM on December 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
The people who spend millions of dollars to have him renovate their homes certainly have better taste than people who shop for multi-million dollar cookie-cutter condos (and better taste than I do, I'm sure). Whether that makes them better people, I honestly don't know. Seems like they are still not very good at sharing
During the Great Depression, my above mentioned grandfather the architect would sometimes hear people complain that it was terrible that he was building homes for rich people when the economy was in such terrible shape. He of course replied that those houses were providing food for a lot of otherwise out of work craftsmen. So, not only sharing, but leaving something better behind that all concerned could take satisfaction in.
I couldn't afford any of the houses he and they built, but I'm glad that other people can. How the people who build the joints under discussion feel about their work, I've no idea. Speaking only for myself, I feel pain seeing well build old buildings of any kind being put to sleep. These places- not so much.
(If I was a tad hyperbolic on the dearth of skilled artisans out there, blame passion. The main point remains. When money is no object, settling for the joints under discussion is kind of shameful. When these buildings eventually fall, I doubt there will be any regrets.)
posted by BWA at 2:06 PM on December 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
During the Great Depression, my above mentioned grandfather the architect would sometimes hear people complain that it was terrible that he was building homes for rich people when the economy was in such terrible shape. He of course replied that those houses were providing food for a lot of otherwise out of work craftsmen. So, not only sharing, but leaving something better behind that all concerned could take satisfaction in.
I couldn't afford any of the houses he and they built, but I'm glad that other people can. How the people who build the joints under discussion feel about their work, I've no idea. Speaking only for myself, I feel pain seeing well build old buildings of any kind being put to sleep. These places- not so much.
(If I was a tad hyperbolic on the dearth of skilled artisans out there, blame passion. The main point remains. When money is no object, settling for the joints under discussion is kind of shameful. When these buildings eventually fall, I doubt there will be any regrets.)
posted by BWA at 2:06 PM on December 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
A friend, Chinese National with NY broker's license, got an inquiry from China, looking for a block of apartments in one building, must be $200MM or more. Emphasis on well known address, Park Avenue etc, ready to buy sight unseen
This is certainly the case, part of the implicit criticism, and a very good reason we need to fundamentally change real estate in the United States.
In my circle, when I suggest that perhaps we should do something about this problem, I am called a racist, an isolationist, not appreciating the wonderfulness of multi-culturalism, etc.
posted by Melismata at 2:10 PM on December 22, 2020 [2 favorites]
This is certainly the case, part of the implicit criticism, and a very good reason we need to fundamentally change real estate in the United States.
In my circle, when I suggest that perhaps we should do something about this problem, I am called a racist, an isolationist, not appreciating the wonderfulness of multi-culturalism, etc.
posted by Melismata at 2:10 PM on December 22, 2020 [2 favorites]
The title in the FPP is a reference to Pete Seeger's "Little Boxes."
posted by No Robots at 2:25 PM on December 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by No Robots at 2:25 PM on December 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
> This is certainly the case, part of the implicit criticism, and a very good reason we need to fundamentally change real estate in the United States.
I'm not having any luck Duck Duck Going it, but doesn't Vancouver, BC have some laws intended to cut down on just such things?
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:36 PM on December 22, 2020
I'm not having any luck Duck Duck Going it, but doesn't Vancouver, BC have some laws intended to cut down on just such things?
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:36 PM on December 22, 2020
Try the term “vacancy tax”.
posted by nat at 3:50 PM on December 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by nat at 3:50 PM on December 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
> Pete Seeger's "Little Boxes."
You mean Malvina Reynold's "Little Boxes".
posted by at by at 4:55 PM on December 22, 2020 [13 favorites]
You mean Malvina Reynold's "Little Boxes".
posted by at by at 4:55 PM on December 22, 2020 [13 favorites]
In my circle, when I suggest that perhaps we should do something about this problem, I am called a racist, an isolationist, not appreciating the wonderfulness of multi-culturalism, etc.
In my circle, that would depend on what you actually suggest we do.
posted by 2N2222 at 5:35 PM on December 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
In my circle, that would depend on what you actually suggest we do.
posted by 2N2222 at 5:35 PM on December 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
The Art World runs on the same sort of speculation real estate does; not surprised (who is surprised by irony nowadays) that the Artist is making a shoddy commodity to sell back to the wealthy
posted by tummy_rub at 5:45 AM on December 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by tummy_rub at 5:45 AM on December 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
Some of these new buildings only finish and show the sponsor-owned model units. The units that you buy can be delivered raw, or highly customized from the model. The minimalist look lets people layer their vision on it, and also reduces the value lost when the model unit is eventually sold to someone who’s going to gut it and renovate.
Also lots of rich people want high-end woodwork and finishes - but they buy townhouses and pre-war co-ops, not new construction condos. New construction condos target the buyer who doesn’t really care as much about such things to begin with. Those photos would be very different.
Anyone can get in to see these apartments. Nouveau rich come in all varieties these days and the midtown highrise is not a peak COVID thing. Getting a showing of 4,000 square foot Fifth Ave prewar with a terrace overlooking the park is something you have to be prequalified for a little more.
posted by MattD at 5:45 AM on December 23, 2020 [3 favorites]
Also lots of rich people want high-end woodwork and finishes - but they buy townhouses and pre-war co-ops, not new construction condos. New construction condos target the buyer who doesn’t really care as much about such things to begin with. Those photos would be very different.
Anyone can get in to see these apartments. Nouveau rich come in all varieties these days and the midtown highrise is not a peak COVID thing. Getting a showing of 4,000 square foot Fifth Ave prewar with a terrace overlooking the park is something you have to be prequalified for a little more.
posted by MattD at 5:45 AM on December 23, 2020 [3 favorites]
That interview on Curbed was really good, thanks adrianhon.
I think the art project is not just the photos, but the whole experience of pretending to be rich, and touring these mysterious new luxury high rises as a rich person.
But the only tangible thing to come out of that experience are some grainy film photos that look like press photos but amateur, and a really good story.
The story is as much a part of the art project as the photos, it gives you the courage to go up to one of these luxury high rises yourself, and ask to be shown the penthouse apartments.
(Just kidding, I would never.)
posted by subdee at 8:45 AM on December 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
I think the art project is not just the photos, but the whole experience of pretending to be rich, and touring these mysterious new luxury high rises as a rich person.
But the only tangible thing to come out of that experience are some grainy film photos that look like press photos but amateur, and a really good story.
The story is as much a part of the art project as the photos, it gives you the courage to go up to one of these luxury high rises yourself, and ask to be shown the penthouse apartments.
(Just kidding, I would never.)
posted by subdee at 8:45 AM on December 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
All this talk of rich folks and where they live has me recalling this segment of a Joe Frank monolog towards the end of Why I Don't Love You Anymore, from 1986:
Let me tell you a story about a guy I know of, I'll give him the name Billy Marx. His father was a Jewish immigrant who made a great deal of money in real estate. He built a lot of movie theaters, he had two children a daughter and a son. He bought them a mansion, a showplace in Connecticut, and he died young of a heart attack, from overwork, and he left the family enough money so that none of them would ever have to work again. So they grew up in a giant mansion with outbuildings and it was like a ten-minute drive before you'd get to their house from the front gate, one of those long, winding roads, and it had a name like Foxcroft. It had a giant kitchen, servant's quarters, stables, tennis courts, and a greenhouse. He sent his children to the best schools in the country, and he died when they were all kids.posted by Rash at 10:23 AM on December 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
Now the daughter, she fancies herself as an artist. She never really paints but she is a patron. She's had love affairs with three popular, current artists in the New York art scene. She throws great parties, she has a big apartment on Sutton Place and a farmhouse in Connecticut with two or three cottages with easels, paints, sculptural equipment, welding equipment, and she always talks about MY show, MY artists, MY painters, MY sculptors... she's in her 20s and there's something terribly sad about her because her own work is ghastly and all the people who are around her are there because she has the money, and the facilities... and she knows it. Somewhere inside herself she knows it, and certainly everyone around her knows it too.
Billy, her brother, he tried being a film producer, then he became part owner in a restaurant, then he owned a fancy tailor shop. He's always impeccably dressed, has two beautiful cars, a beautiful penthouse apartment in New York City and he always has a vacant look on his face, sort of a combination of guilt and absence. He never tried to be an artist. He's what you call a gentleman. He's always going to parties and cafe society; you know, coffee and drinks on the terrace.
So what happens to Billy Marx when he wakes up in the morning. Does he say "Oh boy! I can do anything I want today, I can go anywhere I want! I can go to Paris if I want." What does he do? Well, I've hung out with him, and he doesn't do anything. He sleeps late, he gets up and wanders around the house. He finally shaves in the afternoon, then goes out for what he calls a meeting. But it's just sitting around and drinking with some other friends who're in the same position he is, talking about multi-million dollar schemes that will never go down. And it's not that he really needs or wants to make more money, but he wants to do something, something that will make him respected in his own eyes.
he wants to do something, something that will make him respected in his own eyes.
Something... something... sell all whatever thou hast, and give to the poor... something.
posted by No Robots at 3:30 PM on December 25, 2020 [2 favorites]
Something... something... sell all whatever thou hast, and give to the poor... something.
posted by No Robots at 3:30 PM on December 25, 2020 [2 favorites]
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