The day after the morning after: Trump won't attend inauguration
January 8, 2021 12:39 PM Subscribe
After telling his followers to storm the Capitol, President Trump releases a video seemingly admitting to losing, and then tells his base he won't be attending President-Elect Joe Biden's inauguration.
Every time I look at something coming off his twitter.
posted by phunniemee at 12:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [21 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 12:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [21 favorites]
And what the fresh hell is this? A riot watching party with party music? How much blow is in the back room of that tent?
posted by loquacious at 12:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by loquacious at 12:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
As we discussed repeatedly yesterday, that's from before the rally, not during the riot. You can see the rally audience on the screen.
posted by muddgirl at 12:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [29 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 12:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [29 favorites]
One more time, thank you to all the mods for keeping this community running smoothly.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [121 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [121 favorites]
And what the fresh hell is this? A riot watching party with party music? How much blow is in the back room of that tent?
That scene from Wolf of Wall Street where the yacht is going D O W N! (same song and everything...)
posted by hydra77 at 12:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
That scene from Wolf of Wall Street where the yacht is going D O W N! (same song and everything...)
posted by hydra77 at 12:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
CNN: House Democrats eye quick impeachment vote if Pence rebuffs attempt to remove Trump from office:
It sounds to me like they feel the urgency we feel.
It makes sense to me that they wanted to try the 25th Amendment route first, as that could theoretically happen (or rather, have happened) in the space of a few hours. But since Pence won't do it, it sounds like they're moving as quickly as they can on their next best option, getting the articles of impeachment written as fast as they can (Rep. Omar having been first to tackle this, it sounds like), and figuring out if they might even be able to change the calendar so they could vote Monday.
It's so frustrating to me that the actual things our representatives are actually doing can get so buried in the way the news reaches us. (On the other hand, this was linked from the front page of CNN, so maybe it IS being highlighted, just ... somehow still not reaching us.)
posted by kristi at 12:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [32 favorites]
(CNN)Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her leadership team are considering a lightning-quick impeachment process if Vice President Mike Pence and the Cabinet refuse to take unprecedented steps to remove President Donald Trump from office in less than two weeks' time, according to multiple Democratic sources.Lots more detail on why they can't move even faster than that in the article.
...
"This is urgent -- this is an emergency of the highest magnitude," the California Democrat told reporters Thursday. "My phone has been exploding with 'impeach, impeach, impeach.' "
...
Moving ahead with impeachment, of course, doesn't mean Congress would be able to remove Trump from office. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell could let the clock run out and not hold an impeachment trial in his chamber given that President-elect Joe Biden will be President on January 20.
...
... one option Democrats are exploring: offering articles of impeachment through a privileged resolution. That would allow the chamber to move ahead with a vote to impeach Trump within two days, skip hearings, approving an organizing resolution, an investigation and moving straight to a vote.
Top Democrats in both chambers seem to embrace this approach.
It sounds to me like they feel the urgency we feel.
It makes sense to me that they wanted to try the 25th Amendment route first, as that could theoretically happen (or rather, have happened) in the space of a few hours. But since Pence won't do it, it sounds like they're moving as quickly as they can on their next best option, getting the articles of impeachment written as fast as they can (Rep. Omar having been first to tackle this, it sounds like), and figuring out if they might even be able to change the calendar so they could vote Monday.
It's so frustrating to me that the actual things our representatives are actually doing can get so buried in the way the news reaches us. (On the other hand, this was linked from the front page of CNN, so maybe it IS being highlighted, just ... somehow still not reaching us.)
posted by kristi at 12:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [32 favorites]
And what the fresh hell is this? A riot watching party with party music? How much blow is in the back room of that tent?
This was before the riot happened. I remember they played Gloria in the lead up to when Trump gave his speech where he told his followers to storm the Capitol.
posted by all about eevee at 12:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
This was before the riot happened. I remember they played Gloria in the lead up to when Trump gave his speech where he told his followers to storm the Capitol.
posted by all about eevee at 12:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Is there precedent from Benedict Arnold and Aaron Burr for exile? Honest question.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
o please please please don't come to Scotland (again)
posted by aesop at 12:51 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by aesop at 12:51 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
And if you look closely at the very end of the DJTJr video you can see our unfortunately still current president wearing boxing gloves swinging them around like a child. I can't.
posted by danapiper at 12:51 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by danapiper at 12:51 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
The videos of MAGA folk in DC airports screaming at Lindsey Graham, etc. imply that they are not chastened at all.
posted by little onion at 12:51 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by little onion at 12:51 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
We wouldn’t want Russia as they’ll continue to use him effectively in destabilizing the US. But North Korea seems nice this time of year.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
And what the fresh hell is this? A riot watching party with party music? How much blow is in the back room of that tent?
These videos are from before Trump did his speech.
posted by sideshow at 12:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
These videos are from before Trump did his speech.
posted by sideshow at 12:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
notice that he's fleeing
Is there any follow up to that report about Agalarov's plane in Palm Beach?
posted by St. Oops at 12:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
Is there any follow up to that report about Agalarov's plane in Palm Beach?
posted by St. Oops at 12:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
There was a question in the previous thread as to why the MAGAites have a flag to someone they also claim was a paid ANTIFA crisis actor. That's because those are two separate lies: that she was a hero and that she was fake, and each separately supports their goals. Both are obvious lies, because nothing that they say or do is in good faith. They don't care if they are believed, they just want to sow confusion and doubt.
So, two contradictory lies being spread at the same time. SOP.
Expect everything that they say to be the same, it's not intended to be truth but just to hinder their enemies and gain recruits.
posted by PennD at 12:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [46 favorites]
So, two contradictory lies being spread at the same time. SOP.
Expect everything that they say to be the same, it's not intended to be truth but just to hinder their enemies and gain recruits.
posted by PennD at 12:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [46 favorites]
What is this? - “I don’t know where in the hell $2,000 came from. I swear to God I don’t. That’s another $400 billion dollars,” Manchin said.
posted by asra at 12:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by asra at 12:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
George W Bush had a hundred thousand acres of 'try to find me' space in Paraguay in the event that he had to skedaddle. Trump is more of a Moscow-oriented central-Asian republic sorta guy.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 12:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 12:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Sorry, my link in the last thread failed:
So there is a sequel video to Graham getting harassed in the airport.
I mean, it seems everyone is emulating Disney with the MCU and with so many franchises with multiple instalments, it's hard to keep track.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
So there is a sequel video to Graham getting harassed in the airport.
I mean, it seems everyone is emulating Disney with the MCU and with so many franchises with multiple instalments, it's hard to keep track.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
> loquacious: "And what the fresh hell is this? A riot watching party with party music? How much blow is in the back room of that tent?"
Just to head off the inevitable, that video was taken from earlier in the day before the action started. The music & celebratory atmosphere is more proximate to the speeches that Trump and Giuliani and others were about to give. You can see that the pictures on the screen are of the stage that they were going to be speaking from. The YT video is mislabelled.
posted by mhum at 12:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Just to head off the inevitable, that video was taken from earlier in the day before the action started. The music & celebratory atmosphere is more proximate to the speeches that Trump and Giuliani and others were about to give. You can see that the pictures on the screen are of the stage that they were going to be speaking from. The YT video is mislabelled.
posted by mhum at 12:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
The State Dept dissent cable that was linked in the last thread is well worth reading, and they get something crucial that our media doesn't:
"Our guidance should NOT include any quotes by President Trump about the episode, as his is not a credible voice on this matter."
If our news organizations didn't carry water for fascists by treating every piece of drivel they say as worth repeating out of some austere idea of high minded debate we wouldn't be in this position.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [105 favorites]
"Our guidance should NOT include any quotes by President Trump about the episode, as his is not a credible voice on this matter."
If our news organizations didn't carry water for fascists by treating every piece of drivel they say as worth repeating out of some austere idea of high minded debate we wouldn't be in this position.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [105 favorites]
Donald Trump is obviously going to board Space Force 1 and flee to the secret moon base
posted by sainttoad at 12:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by sainttoad at 12:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
In fairness, the Q*berts screaming at Lindsey Graham in that airport share common ground with me for likely the very first time.
Lindsey Graham should never spend a quiet moment in a public place for the rest of his life. He should not enjoy a tranquil meal in a restaurant once that option becomes available once more, engage in quiet reflection in an airport waiting room, or take a dump in a gas station bathroom without someone outside the stall door razzing him for his craven behavior.
It is a well-earned Lifetime Achievement Award, one that he must never be permitted to set aside.
posted by delfin at 12:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [102 favorites]
Lindsey Graham should never spend a quiet moment in a public place for the rest of his life. He should not enjoy a tranquil meal in a restaurant once that option becomes available once more, engage in quiet reflection in an airport waiting room, or take a dump in a gas station bathroom without someone outside the stall door razzing him for his craven behavior.
It is a well-earned Lifetime Achievement Award, one that he must never be permitted to set aside.
posted by delfin at 12:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [102 favorites]
At the end of the last thread, some were suggesting that Jayden-X, the person making the video by the Capitol Speaker's Lobby doors, was a liberal activist or journalist, and were merely warning the police.
A warning from an unidentified person in a mob is equivalent to a threat. Even if this guy thought he was being helpful, he was trying to get the cops to cave. Cops make a big show of "needing to be willing to unleash deadly force at a split second notice." These cops were all cowards and collaborators. It's on tape.
posted by rikschell at 12:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
A warning from an unidentified person in a mob is equivalent to a threat. Even if this guy thought he was being helpful, he was trying to get the cops to cave. Cops make a big show of "needing to be willing to unleash deadly force at a split second notice." These cops were all cowards and collaborators. It's on tape.
posted by rikschell at 12:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
Reposting a link from a previous thread: Lawfare is compiling the criminal charges. There were only two cases up when I checked last night; there are seven now. I find reading these criminal complaints really compelling (and terrifying, and weirdly optimistic that maybe some of these charges will stick).
The matter-of-fact descriptions of individual criminal incidents are worth reading.
posted by kristi at 1:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [18 favorites]
The matter-of-fact descriptions of individual criminal incidents are worth reading.
posted by kristi at 1:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [18 favorites]
boo-fucking-hoo. let Trump have his pity party.
posted by bluesky43 at 1:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by bluesky43 at 1:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
I wonder if under Article 3 of the 14th Amendment we could remove Trump for engaging in insurrection. Then instead of needing a 2/3 vote to remove him, they'd need a 2/3 vote to let him back in. I'm sure it can't be this easy; but I can dream.
Relevant text.
Relevant text.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.posted by interogative mood at 1:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [48 favorites]
The State Dept dissent cable that was linked in the last thread is well worth reading, and they get something crucial that our media doesn't
Funny thing about this:
The day after the riot, a lot of us reporters noticed the US embassy here was silent. Yeah, there was a social media lockdown, but here in 2021 we forget that social media isn't the only avenue for issuing statements. So the embassy was called for a statement, and the embassy said they were given orders to refer reporters to Pompeo's tweet on the matter (which, you will notice, makes zero mention of the president at all) or to refer any questions to the information desk of the DoS.
So reading the dissent cable gave me some serious whiplash. Two utterly opposing points of view on the same crisis, within the same department. What a team.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
Funny thing about this:
The day after the riot, a lot of us reporters noticed the US embassy here was silent. Yeah, there was a social media lockdown, but here in 2021 we forget that social media isn't the only avenue for issuing statements. So the embassy was called for a statement, and the embassy said they were given orders to refer reporters to Pompeo's tweet on the matter (which, you will notice, makes zero mention of the president at all) or to refer any questions to the information desk of the DoS.
So reading the dissent cable gave me some serious whiplash. Two utterly opposing points of view on the same crisis, within the same department. What a team.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
So there is a sequel video to Graham getting harassed in the airport.
I had to catch myself from feeling sorry for that seditionist fool.
posted by bluesky43 at 1:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
I had to catch myself from feeling sorry for that seditionist fool.
posted by bluesky43 at 1:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
In case anyone (like me) was getting hopeful about Lindsey Graham’s future as a senator
Maybe you disagree with your Senator's stance on an issue. Or maybe you are discontent with his or her voting policies. Contrary to what you may believe or wish, you cannot recall members of the U.S. Congress. Recalling a member of the Senate is not allowed by the Constitution, and no one has been removed from the Senate from a recall.posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:05 PM on January 8, 2021
DC Government has been posted updates to their website tracking all "unrest" related arrests going back to June if you want to really get into the raw data. As of this post it was last updated this morning with data from last night.
posted by interogative mood at 1:06 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 1:06 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
I can't believe Twitter is letting him keep posting after that unbelievable sorry-lol video where he does not actually admit he lost the election despite the fact that most of the media seems to think he did. Didn't they just see that his control over the mob is his most powerful weapon right now? Don't they know that the Qanon people are parsing every word of every tweet for secret messages and directions on what to do next? Taking Trump's hands off the tweet button might be as important as removing them from the nuclear codes.
posted by theodolite at 1:06 PM on January 8, 2021 [23 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 1:06 PM on January 8, 2021 [23 favorites]
interogative mood posted upthread article 3 of the 14th amendement about Trump, but can't that be applied to Cruz and Hawley and Mo Brooks as well?
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath
posted by hollygoheavy at 1:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath
posted by hollygoheavy at 1:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
‘Coward’: MAGA internet turns on Trump
Apparently trump's traitors aren't happy.
posted by bluesky43 at 1:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
Apparently trump's traitors aren't happy.
posted by bluesky43 at 1:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
In case anyone (like me) was getting hopeful about Lindsey Graham’s future as a senator
That's true w/r/t recall, but they can be expelled. Works for me.
Maybe you disagree with your Senator's stance on an issue. Or maybe you are discontent with his or her voting policies. Contrary to what you may believe or wish, you cannot recall members of the U.S. Congress. Recalling a member of the Senate is not allowed by the Constitution, and no one has been removed from the Senate from a recall.
That's true w/r/t recall, but they can be expelled. Works for me.
Article I, Section 5, of the United States Constitution provides that "Each House [of Congress] may determine the Rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member." Since 1789, the Senate has expelled only fifteen of its entire membership.posted by lazaruslong at 1:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
We hold the Secret Service in high(er) regard than normal police, not just because of their job titles and aura of mystery, but that they believe in something higher than their own lives. Whereas the normal police seem satisfied with the idea that they're not legally responsible for anyone's protection other than their own, in which case they're allowed to commit murder if they feel like it.
posted by meowzilla at 1:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by meowzilla at 1:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
Apparently trump's traitors aren't happy.
Just like Daddy Trump, it physically hurts them to think about a world in which they actually lose so they fight against that reality with all their might.
posted by deadaluspark at 1:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
Just like Daddy Trump, it physically hurts them to think about a world in which they actually lose so they fight against that reality with all their might.
posted by deadaluspark at 1:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
I'm beginning to wonder if there was some level of negotiation on the last couple days of Trump. Basically, McConnell and Pence basically said "unless you want to be the only president in US history to be removed from office and all records--including your taxes--released, shut your damn mouth. If you get twitter back, you acknowledge your time is up. You don't get to communicate live an unfiltered anymore--no rallies or live TV. Every tweet is reviewed before 'send' is clicked." The two tweets since then--one that amounted to "our movement will continue" (without references to "the steal") his inauguration plans may be a bit Trumpy in form, but not unreasonable had they been given right after the election.
I suppose we'll know by Monday--my money is still on him returning to form.
posted by MrGuilt at 1:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
I suppose we'll know by Monday--my money is still on him returning to form.
posted by MrGuilt at 1:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
interogative mood posted upthread article 3 of the 14th amendement about Trump, but can't that be applied to Cruz and Hawley and Mo Brooks as well?
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath
Yep, forget expulsion, use this to remove them. ALL of them.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath
Yep, forget expulsion, use this to remove them. ALL of them.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Speaking of Russia:
One person arrested was charged with possessing a “military style automatic weapon” and 11 molotov cocktails, prosecutors said. Another defendant was charged with assaulting a police officer with a hockey stick. Yet another, who needed a Russian interpreter, told a judge, “I don’t know what unlawful entry you are referring to.” -- WaPo
posted by jim in austin at 1:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [18 favorites]
One person arrested was charged with possessing a “military style automatic weapon” and 11 molotov cocktails, prosecutors said. Another defendant was charged with assaulting a police officer with a hockey stick. Yet another, who needed a Russian interpreter, told a judge, “I don’t know what unlawful entry you are referring to.” -- WaPo
posted by jim in austin at 1:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [18 favorites]
We hold the Secret Service in high(er) regard than normal police, not just because of their job titles and aura of mystery, but that they believe in something higher than their own lives. Whereas the normal police seem satisfied with the idea that they're not legally responsible for anyone's protection other than their own, in which case they're allowed to commit murder if they feel like it.
Uhhhh, what about the whole "Secret Service is now packed with Trump Loyalists" so now Biden is having to do a fucking purge??
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/biden-secret-service-detail-trump-b1780735.html
posted by deadaluspark at 1:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
Uhhhh, what about the whole "Secret Service is now packed with Trump Loyalists" so now Biden is having to do a fucking purge??
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/biden-secret-service-detail-trump-b1780735.html
posted by deadaluspark at 1:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
For reference, the fast approval of Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court took the Senate a month after the nomination. She was nominated 8 days after Justice Ginsburg died.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
>"And what the fresh hell is this? A riot watching party with party music? How much blow is in the back room of that tent?"
>Just to head off the inevitable, that video was taken from earlier in the day before the action started.
So, in this tendentious parsing, it isn't a riot watching party. It is a riot incitement party.
I don't know about you, but to me the second sounds much worse.
posted by JackFlash at 1:17 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
>Just to head off the inevitable, that video was taken from earlier in the day before the action started.
So, in this tendentious parsing, it isn't a riot watching party. It is a riot incitement party.
I don't know about you, but to me the second sounds much worse.
posted by JackFlash at 1:17 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
Uhhhh, what about the whole "Secret Service is now packed with Trump Loyalists" so now Biden is having to do a fucking purge??
Yeah I'm just following up on the claim that the Secret Service is handling security for the inauguration so everything will be fine.
No one knows what the reality will be.
posted by meowzilla at 1:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
Yeah I'm just following up on the claim that the Secret Service is handling security for the inauguration so everything will be fine.
No one knows what the reality will be.
posted by meowzilla at 1:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
To echo a post right near the end of the previous thread, I recommend the work of Peter Turchin if you are interested in the idea of "secular cycles" of history, where once a generational experience and memory of upheaval literally dies out, a new cycle begins again.
posted by PhineasGage at 1:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by PhineasGage at 1:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
I gently suggest that if you are white or you see white people minimizing that some/most of the rioters were just jokers milling around with no real plan, to consider that part of white supremacy is the privilege to assume the best of white intentions. Just as a lot of white people who end up BBQ Becky swear that they're not racist, they might even be liberals, they had a really good reason to call the cops on THAT Black person; we are also culturally encouraged to believe that "most white people are mostly good" and that "my cousin/friend/coworker says racist stuff but they'd never do this." If you are white there is a good chance you are unconsciously minimizing, and that's not a personal accusation, but it is the water we swim in.
posted by nakedmolerats at 1:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [119 favorites]
posted by nakedmolerats at 1:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [119 favorites]
Expulsion will never happen. You need 2/3 majority in each house to do that, and the majorities are razor slim. No Republican will vote to expel another Republican. If they weren't willing to compromise morals to keep power they would already have left the Republicans.
They know that if the situation was reversed and they had a chance to expel some Democratic members they would, and then their majority would get bigger so they could expel more, and so on until they were the only ones left. They expect the same from their opponents.
posted by PennD at 1:22 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
They know that if the situation was reversed and they had a chance to expel some Democratic members they would, and then their majority would get bigger so they could expel more, and so on until they were the only ones left. They expect the same from their opponents.
posted by PennD at 1:22 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
I don't get why there'd be *any* Trump loyalists in the Secret Service given that he's been making sure they get infected left and right.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
given that he's been making sure they get infected left and right.
Because most people who get COVID live.
posted by jessamyn at 1:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
Because most people who get COVID live.
posted by jessamyn at 1:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
I gently suggest that if you are white or you see white people minimizing that some/most of the rioters were just jokers milling around with no real plan, to consider that part of white supremacy is the privilege to assume the best of white intentions.
I submit it's possible to believe these folks had absolutely horrible intentions and were racist (either overtly or by casting a blind eye), but had absolutely zero plan.
posted by MrGuilt at 1:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
I submit it's possible to believe these folks had absolutely horrible intentions and were racist (either overtly or by casting a blind eye), but had absolutely zero plan.
posted by MrGuilt at 1:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
Metafilter: My phone has been exploding with 'impeach, impeach, impeach.'
posted by medusa at 1:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by medusa at 1:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
I want to challenge the wording of this post: Trump did not seemingly admit to losing; he said there would be an orderly transition to the next administration. He will never say Biden won or that he lost, and it seems likely that tomorrow he will say the "next administration" will be his.
posted by argybarg at 1:27 PM on January 8, 2021 [24 favorites]
posted by argybarg at 1:27 PM on January 8, 2021 [24 favorites]
Apparently trump's traitors aren't happy.
The other half think his apparent concession speech was a deepfake. I'd agree with them that his concession speech is nothing of the sort: fake words, fake intentions, though not a deepfake. We are at the stage where an emboldened president attacks his own country and still has 12 days left to do unspeakable damage, of the permanent kind which cannot be undone, ever. This will not end well unless good people prevail.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
The other half think his apparent concession speech was a deepfake. I'd agree with them that his concession speech is nothing of the sort: fake words, fake intentions, though not a deepfake. We are at the stage where an emboldened president attacks his own country and still has 12 days left to do unspeakable damage, of the permanent kind which cannot be undone, ever. This will not end well unless good people prevail.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
Who wants to bet that the reason Trump won't attend the inauguration is that he'll be busy stealing Air Force One and defecting to a country that doesn't have an extradition treaty with the United States in order to avoid prosecution on all the things that he was already going to be prosecuted on before January 6th?
posted by heatherlogan at 1:30 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by heatherlogan at 1:30 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
If it wasn't so terrible, it would be hilarious how the perpetrators all said the quiet parts out loud. Paraphrasing from some of the videos that are out there: "how can they tear-gas me, they are supposed to shoot the BLM people", and this classic abuser sentence: "you forced me to do this, I was a law-abiding citizen a day ago".
I hope every single one of them get long sentences, but I worry they won't.
I submit it's possible to believe these folks had absolutely horrible intentions and were racist (either overtly or by casting a blind eye), but had absolutely zero plan.
They never felt they needed a plan because their dear leader said loudly and clearly he would be marching with them to the Capitol. He was supposed to direct their actions.
That said, it seems there were people among them who were prepared and had a plan, but I guess we will have to wait and see what investigations lead to.
posted by mumimor at 1:31 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
I hope every single one of them get long sentences, but I worry they won't.
I submit it's possible to believe these folks had absolutely horrible intentions and were racist (either overtly or by casting a blind eye), but had absolutely zero plan.
They never felt they needed a plan because their dear leader said loudly and clearly he would be marching with them to the Capitol. He was supposed to direct their actions.
That said, it seems there were people among them who were prepared and had a plan, but I guess we will have to wait and see what investigations lead to.
posted by mumimor at 1:31 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
the Secret Service is handling security for the inauguration so everything will be fine.
Under the circumstances, especially given the terrorists' promise to return on the 19th, the whole outdoor ceremony at the Capitol should be scrapped and the event instead moved to a big auditorium inside the Pentagon.
posted by Rash at 1:32 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
Under the circumstances, especially given the terrorists' promise to return on the 19th, the whole outdoor ceremony at the Capitol should be scrapped and the event instead moved to a big auditorium inside the Pentagon.
posted by Rash at 1:32 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
The legitimacy of a government depends on its ability to safely occupy territory.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:33 PM on January 8, 2021 [34 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:33 PM on January 8, 2021 [34 favorites]
If our news organizations didn't carry water for fascists by treating every piece of drivel they say as worth repeating out of some austere idea of high minded debate we wouldn't be in this position.
We've got to get away from the bias towards fairness (Newsroom clip). There aren't two sides to every story let alone two equal sides and we have to get away from reporting stories like there are.
posted by Mitheral at 1:36 PM on January 8, 2021 [26 favorites]
We've got to get away from the bias towards fairness (Newsroom clip). There aren't two sides to every story let alone two equal sides and we have to get away from reporting stories like there are.
posted by Mitheral at 1:36 PM on January 8, 2021 [26 favorites]
The 14th Amendment is only viable if they've been convicted - which in the case of the President, requires that he be removed from office first. No way it'll work.
posted by Anoplura at 1:39 PM on January 8, 2021
posted by Anoplura at 1:39 PM on January 8, 2021
Under the circumstances, especially given the terrorists' promise to return on the 19th, the whole outdoor ceremony at the Capitol should be scrapped and the event instead moved to a big auditorium inside the Pentagon.
The optics of holding an inauguration ceremony for a civil office at the Pentagon would be, uh, not good.
posted by nosewings at 1:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [27 favorites]
The optics of holding an inauguration ceremony for a civil office at the Pentagon would be, uh, not good.
posted by nosewings at 1:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [27 favorites]
FWIW I wondered if they'd consider scaling down the inauguration anyway, since it has such potential as a spreading event. I don't know now whether its (increased) symbolic importance might weigh in its favor though.
posted by aesop at 1:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by aesop at 1:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
‘Coward’: MAGA internet turns on Trump
Apparently trump's traitors aren't happy.
Well, reality has a notoriously liberal bias. That's hard for some people.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
Apparently trump's traitors aren't happy.
Well, reality has a notoriously liberal bias. That's hard for some people.
They analyzed every word of his video announcement and noticed, to their glee, that he did not formally acknowledge Joe Biden’s win — just merely that a new administration would take over on Jan. 20.Am I the only one thinking of the backwards masking people in the eighties, listening to AC/DC records backwards, slower and slower, for any words that might sound like they could be "Satan?"
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
FWIW I wondered if they'd consider scaling down the inauguration anyway, since it has such potential as a spreading event. I don't know now whether its (increased) symbolic importance might weigh in its favor though.
January 21: "No public inauguration (and no gold fringe on the flags on the fake one on the msm news) means #realdonaaldtrump is still president!"
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
January 21: "No public inauguration (and no gold fringe on the flags on the fake one on the msm news) means #realdonaaldtrump is still president!"
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
Stealing Air Force one to flee to Moscow would be very challenging for Trump. The plane is managed by the Air Force and the entire chain of command down to the pilots would need to be willing to obey orders that would have questionable legality as would his security detail. I’m skeptical that all those folks would go along with it and risk their pensions and their freedom.
posted by interogative mood at 1:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 1:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
The optics of holding an inauguration ceremony for a civil office at the Pentagon would be, uh, not good.
Yep, and it's not like there aren't plenty of federal buildings in downtown DC with auditoriums that could be remotely linked to each other (if necessary) to meet social distancing requirements.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 1:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yep, and it's not like there aren't plenty of federal buildings in downtown DC with auditoriums that could be remotely linked to each other (if necessary) to meet social distancing requirements.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 1:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
FWIW I wondered if they'd consider scaling down the inauguration anyway, since it has such potential as a spreading event. I don't know now whether its (increased) symbolic importance might weigh in its favor though.
I'm waiting for a Trump crowd size tweet (or whatever you call posts on Parler).
More seriously, I assumed that there would be fewer people and more spacing on the stage anyway, and discouraging mass attendance. Is that not the case?
posted by plonkee at 1:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm waiting for a Trump crowd size tweet (or whatever you call posts on Parler).
More seriously, I assumed that there would be fewer people and more spacing on the stage anyway, and discouraging mass attendance. Is that not the case?
posted by plonkee at 1:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
From the Anchorage Daily News (reposted because I missed that there was a new thread): U.S. Sen. Lisa Murkowski said Friday that Donald Trump should resign the presidency immediately and that if the Republican Party cannot separate itself from Trump, she isn’t certain she has a future with the party.
“I want him to resign. I want him out. He has caused enough damage,” Murkowski said during a 17-minute interview from her small Capitol office, steps away from the Senate chambers that were invaded by pro-Trump rioters on Wednesday.
“I think he should leave. He said he’s not going to show up. He’s not going to appear at the at the inauguration. He hasn’t been focused on what is going on with COVID. He’s either been golfing or he’s been inside the Oval Office fuming and throwing every single person who has been loyal and faithful to him under the bus, starting with the vice president. He doesn’t want to stay there. He only wants to stay there for the title. He only wants to stay there for his ego. He needs to get out. He needs to do the good thing, but I don’t think he’s capable of doing a good thing,” she said.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [55 favorites]
“I want him to resign. I want him out. He has caused enough damage,” Murkowski said during a 17-minute interview from her small Capitol office, steps away from the Senate chambers that were invaded by pro-Trump rioters on Wednesday.
“I think he should leave. He said he’s not going to show up. He’s not going to appear at the at the inauguration. He hasn’t been focused on what is going on with COVID. He’s either been golfing or he’s been inside the Oval Office fuming and throwing every single person who has been loyal and faithful to him under the bus, starting with the vice president. He doesn’t want to stay there. He only wants to stay there for the title. He only wants to stay there for his ego. He needs to get out. He needs to do the good thing, but I don’t think he’s capable of doing a good thing,” she said.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [55 favorites]
Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski calls on President Trump to resign, questions her future as a Republican
posted by procrastination at 1:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [28 favorites]
posted by procrastination at 1:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [28 favorites]
Because most people who get COVID live.
Even dying from COVID is not enough to sway these people. This summer someone I went to high school with and whose father worked with my father way back when died of COVID. Didn’t really know him although I would run into him occasionally over the years and he was always friendly. By all accounts he was a decent guy, and he held a non-elected position in local government that was important enough that his death was reported on the local news. It turns out his widow was in Washington on the 6th and got interviewed on the local news. From mutual facebook friends who know her and the interview on local news I have learned that she blames Biden and her husband’s doctors for his “needless” death because they wouldn’t give him hydroxychloroquine (remember this is late summer after that nonsense should have been laid to rest), and that while the protests where 5 people died were perfectly polite and reasonable, she was afraid to walk back to her hotel after dark because of “antifa.” I tried to find the news story but it seems to have gone missing. Perhaps she had them take it down before antifa or BLM found her. (I saw the news story, so it definitely existed.)
posted by TedW at 1:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [18 favorites]
Even dying from COVID is not enough to sway these people. This summer someone I went to high school with and whose father worked with my father way back when died of COVID. Didn’t really know him although I would run into him occasionally over the years and he was always friendly. By all accounts he was a decent guy, and he held a non-elected position in local government that was important enough that his death was reported on the local news. It turns out his widow was in Washington on the 6th and got interviewed on the local news. From mutual facebook friends who know her and the interview on local news I have learned that she blames Biden and her husband’s doctors for his “needless” death because they wouldn’t give him hydroxychloroquine (remember this is late summer after that nonsense should have been laid to rest), and that while the protests where 5 people died were perfectly polite and reasonable, she was afraid to walk back to her hotel after dark because of “antifa.” I tried to find the news story but it seems to have gone missing. Perhaps she had them take it down before antifa or BLM found her. (I saw the news story, so it definitely existed.)
posted by TedW at 1:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [18 favorites]
part of white supremacy is the privilege to assume the best of white intentions
I want to underline this loudly, with an example.
The climbing community is having a "crisis" over route names, now that it's been pointed out that names like "W-ps and N------s" aren't edgy, they're straight-up offensive. There's a long list of super-offensive shit where that came from.
Many times the response is something along the lines of "Well there's this story, when we did the route my pal Joe and I ...... we're not racists! We're just good-ol-boys!"
The very fact that these people assume that their stories will be listened to, and that we should and will seek to understand the goddam snowflake good old boy "stories" behind it -- that is privilege.
I pointed out, that's exactly the privilege that George Floyd and Sandra Bland and Trevor Martin and the jogger et al. did not get. Instead, they are dead.
That dude at Nancy Pelosi's desk -knew- that anyone could just see he was just joking! Same with lectern guy. Having the time of their lives! That's straight-up white privilege.
(on preview, I got flagged for spelling out the first term. That's why I appreciate this place.)
posted by Dashy at 1:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [82 favorites]
I want to underline this loudly, with an example.
The climbing community is having a "crisis" over route names, now that it's been pointed out that names like "W-ps and N------s" aren't edgy, they're straight-up offensive. There's a long list of super-offensive shit where that came from.
Many times the response is something along the lines of "Well there's this story, when we did the route my pal Joe and I ...... we're not racists! We're just good-ol-boys!"
The very fact that these people assume that their stories will be listened to, and that we should and will seek to understand the goddam snowflake good old boy "stories" behind it -- that is privilege.
I pointed out, that's exactly the privilege that George Floyd and Sandra Bland and Trevor Martin and the jogger et al. did not get. Instead, they are dead.
That dude at Nancy Pelosi's desk -knew- that anyone could just see he was just joking! Same with lectern guy. Having the time of their lives! That's straight-up white privilege.
(on preview, I got flagged for spelling out the first term. That's why I appreciate this place.)
posted by Dashy at 1:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [82 favorites]
WaPo: Police let most Capitol rioters walk away. But cellphone data and videos could now lead to more arrests.
The countless hours of video — much of it taken by the rioters themselves and uploaded to social media — also offers an ideal data set for facial recognition. Many scenes were captured from multiple angles, with good lighting, over several minutes. Few people wore masks. While facial recognition technology often struggles to reliably identify people with dark skin, the large majority of the Trump supporters who entered the Capitol on Wednesday appeared to be White.posted by jquinby at 1:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [48 favorites]
Forgive me if I remain unimpressed by Lisa Murkowski's sudden reacquaintance with what the "right thing" is.
posted by The demon that lives in the air at 1:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [79 favorites]
posted by The demon that lives in the air at 1:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [79 favorites]
Oh, and as regards a spot for the inaugration: they should do it at the Four Seasons Hotel in Philadelphia.
posted by jquinby at 1:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [63 favorites]
posted by jquinby at 1:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [63 favorites]
Well Lisa McAsshat sure isn’t going to be acceptable as Democrat. Even Ringling Brothers didn’t have a tent that big.
posted by HyperBlue at 1:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by HyperBlue at 1:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski calls on President Trump to resign, questions her future as a Republican
Does she have concerns?
Put your vote where your mouth is or it's all bullshit. Caucus with the Democrats or nothing. I won't hold my breath.
posted by JackFlash at 1:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [32 favorites]
Does she have concerns?
Put your vote where your mouth is or it's all bullshit. Caucus with the Democrats or nothing. I won't hold my breath.
posted by JackFlash at 1:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [32 favorites]
"Hello, customer service? This is Lindsay Graham, and I am VERY unhappy with this Monkey's Paw you sold me."
posted by PlusDistance at 1:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [78 favorites]
posted by PlusDistance at 1:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [78 favorites]
Mitheral: “These things wouldn't much change the look / feel of the building while still providing a higher degree of security [versus] the events of yesterday.You make very good points about the how one can secure a building without making it look like a fortress, and as a fan of Monsieur Vauban and the beauty of physical security design, I appreciate them.
Hell even in the infamous video of the mob chasing after the black cop he ascends several flights of stairs without encountering so much as a fire door let alone a security hard point.”
However, if the Capitol of the United States of America requires hard points and steel-reinforced doors, there is little point in installing them because its value as a symbol of the United States and freedom in general will already be over. I say this speaking as a Georgian where the white supremacist governor and legislature made it perfectly clear whether or not our Gold Dome was a symbol of the freedom of all Georgians.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
if the Republican Party cannot separate itself from Trump, [Murkowski] isn’t certain she has a future with the party.
I get that we are all super on edge (goodness knows I am), but I actually optimistically read that as a subtle threat to turtle that if he doesn't show some movement on Trump, she will in fact help the Democrats pass their legislation.
posted by Slothrop at 1:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [21 favorites]
I get that we are all super on edge (goodness knows I am), but I actually optimistically read that as a subtle threat to turtle that if he doesn't show some movement on Trump, she will in fact help the Democrats pass their legislation.
posted by Slothrop at 1:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [21 favorites]
Alaska doesn’t have party primaries anymore, so she can be independent if she wants to. Only risk is to her committee assignments, but there are 2 other independents already in the Senate anyway so it’s not something they don’t know how to handle.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
In re: LEOs in the groups (there were several) making up the Capitol terrorist mob, from the Brennan Center, in August 2020: Hidden in Plain Sight: Racism, White Supremacy, and Far-Right Militancy in Law Enforcement. SUMMARY: The government’s response to known connections of law enforcement officers to violent racist and militant groups has been strikingly insufficient.
Inadequate Response to Affiliations with White Supremacist and Militant Groups: The FBI’s 2015 Counterterrorism Policy Directive and Policy Guide warns that “domestic terrorism investigations focused on militia extremists, white supremacist extremists, and sovereign citizen extremists often have identified active links to law enforcement officers.” This alarming declaration followed a 2006 intelligence assessment, based on FBI investigations and open sources, that warned of “white supremacist infiltration of law enforcement . . . by organized groups and by self-initiated infiltration by law enforcement personnel sympathetic to white supremacist causes.” Active links between law enforcement officials and the subjects of any terrorism investigation should raise alarms within our national security establishment, but the federal government has not responded accordingly. The FBI and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) have identified white supremacists as the most lethal domestic terrorist threat to the United States.
In a June 2019 hearing before the House Committee on Oversight and Reform, Rep. William Lacy Clay (D-MO) asked Michael McGarrity, [then] the FBI’s assistant director for counterterrorism, whether the bureau remained concerned about white supremacist infiltration of law enforcement since the publication of the 2006 assessment. McGarrity indicated he had not read the 2006 assessment. When asked more generally about the issue, McGarrity said he would be “suspect” of white supremacist police officers, but that their ideology was a First Amendment–protected right. More importantly, the FBI’s 2015 counterterrorism policy, which McGarrity was responsible for implementing, indicates not just that members of law enforcement might hold white supremacist views, but that FBI domestic terrorism investigations have often identified “active links” between the subjects of these investigations and law enforcement officials. Its proposed remedy is stunningly inadequate, however [...]
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [16 favorites]
Inadequate Response to Affiliations with White Supremacist and Militant Groups: The FBI’s 2015 Counterterrorism Policy Directive and Policy Guide warns that “domestic terrorism investigations focused on militia extremists, white supremacist extremists, and sovereign citizen extremists often have identified active links to law enforcement officers.” This alarming declaration followed a 2006 intelligence assessment, based on FBI investigations and open sources, that warned of “white supremacist infiltration of law enforcement . . . by organized groups and by self-initiated infiltration by law enforcement personnel sympathetic to white supremacist causes.” Active links between law enforcement officials and the subjects of any terrorism investigation should raise alarms within our national security establishment, but the federal government has not responded accordingly. The FBI and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) have identified white supremacists as the most lethal domestic terrorist threat to the United States.
In a June 2019 hearing before the House Committee on Oversight and Reform, Rep. William Lacy Clay (D-MO) asked Michael McGarrity, [then] the FBI’s assistant director for counterterrorism, whether the bureau remained concerned about white supremacist infiltration of law enforcement since the publication of the 2006 assessment. McGarrity indicated he had not read the 2006 assessment. When asked more generally about the issue, McGarrity said he would be “suspect” of white supremacist police officers, but that their ideology was a First Amendment–protected right. More importantly, the FBI’s 2015 counterterrorism policy, which McGarrity was responsible for implementing, indicates not just that members of law enforcement might hold white supremacist views, but that FBI domestic terrorism investigations have often identified “active links” between the subjects of these investigations and law enforcement officials. Its proposed remedy is stunningly inadequate, however [...]
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [16 favorites]
Hundreds of Twitter employees sign letter asking Jack Dorsey to permanently suspend Trump’s account
Wondering if the Post included a picture of his face with an extremely punchable expression on purpose.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 2:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
Wondering if the Post included a picture of his face with an extremely punchable expression on purpose.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 2:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
#BREAKING WV Delegate Derrick Evans has been taken into federal custody.
posted by robbyrobs at 2:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [73 favorites]
posted by robbyrobs at 2:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [73 favorites]
Yes, but, as an independent, it does matter which party she declares to caucus with officially, when you select the majority leader, when you count how many seats each party gets in committees, staffing, etc.
posted by JackFlash at 2:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 2:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
Glegrinof the Pig_Man In fairness to Jack Dorsey, I don't think I've seen a picture of him where he didn't have an extremely punchable expression.
posted by SansPoint at 2:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 2:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
Wondering if the Post included a picture of his face with an extremely punchable expression on purpose.
I mean, that’s every picture of him.
posted by leotrotsky at 2:08 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
I mean, that’s every picture of him.
posted by leotrotsky at 2:08 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
CNN.com: As thousands of pro-Trump supporters streamed into Washington, DC, Wednesday headed first to the Ellipse to hear President Donald Trump speak, and then to the United States Capitol to lay siege to the epicenter of American democracy, first lady Melania Trump was doing a photo shoot at the White House.
"Professional lighting, the sort used for photography and videography, could be seen through the windows of the White House. "Photos were being taken of rugs and other items in the Executive Residence and the East Wing," a person familiar with the day's activities with the first lady told CNN."
I sure hope the FBI is keeping an eye on eBay and Craigslist for the next few weeks . . .
posted by soundguy99 at 2:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [28 favorites]
"Professional lighting, the sort used for photography and videography, could be seen through the windows of the White House. "Photos were being taken of rugs and other items in the Executive Residence and the East Wing," a person familiar with the day's activities with the first lady told CNN."
I sure hope the FBI is keeping an eye on eBay and Craigslist for the next few weeks . . .
posted by soundguy99 at 2:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [28 favorites]
Remember the old saying: "While Republicans look for converts, Democrats look for heretics." We're a club you can never join, or a small town where you will always be an outsider. If Lisa Murkowski wants to figure out how to be a Democrat I'm willing to judge her on her actions. (If she wants to be an "Independent" who caucuses with Republicans I owe her no attention.)
posted by argybarg at 2:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [25 favorites]
posted by argybarg at 2:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [25 favorites]
Derrick Evans is charged with entering a restricted area. Not terrorism, not insurrection, not conspiracy, not threatening the lives of Congress men and women and staff, not being part of an action that killed a police officer, not rioting, not joining in vandalism, not treason. . . just I'm a privileged white guy stuff.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 2:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [53 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 2:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [53 favorites]
When I first got my job working for the state of Georgia in the 1980s, I was required to sign a loyalty oath stating that I had never been a member of the communist party, among other things. Although I have since come to find the idea of loyalty oaths repugnant, recent events have made me think requiring government employees to explicitly disavow the confederacy and disallowing membership in the Proud Boys/Boogaloo movement/Oathkeepers/3%ers/ and any other group advocating overthrow of our democratic republic may not be a bad idea.
posted by TedW at 2:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [21 favorites]
posted by TedW at 2:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [21 favorites]
And at the very least, the instant when a Republican says "I can't take this any more, I'm about done with this party" is the absolutely worst moment to jump in with "Oh NOW you care, huh? What has been wrong with you?" If your Trumpy family member came around, would you pick that instant to let them know they would never, no matter how hard they tried, be welcome in your party?
posted by argybarg at 2:23 PM on January 8, 2021 [57 favorites]
posted by argybarg at 2:23 PM on January 8, 2021 [57 favorites]
Makes sense. I happen to believe we structurally welcome more than we turn away. I do get the point about us running out the purity tests, I just think she's certainly gotten the benefit from years of Right Wing Fascist news agencies, so has some splainin' to do.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
It's less that I'm unwelcoming, than deeply skeptical. How many times has Murkowski held out the football of concern? When has she ever, ever made good on her talk?
I'll discuss how enthusiastically we should accept her when she actually does something.
posted by The demon that lives in the air at 2:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [34 favorites]
I'll discuss how enthusiastically we should accept her when she actually does something.
posted by The demon that lives in the air at 2:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [34 favorites]
I agree, but I'd give her the chance to 'splain with compensatory good works.
posted by argybarg at 2:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by argybarg at 2:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
Derrick Evans is charged with entering a restricted area. Not terrorism, not insurrection, not conspiracy, not threatening the lives of Congress men and women and staff, not being part of an action that killed a police officer, not rioting, not joining in vandalism, not treason. . .
I think (I hope) they're going for the low hanging slam dunk prosecutions first to get these guys locked up and then pursuing more later. Entering a restricted area is very easy to prosecute when they're all streaming themselves doing it live.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:30 PM on January 8, 2021 [32 favorites]
I think (I hope) they're going for the low hanging slam dunk prosecutions first to get these guys locked up and then pursuing more later. Entering a restricted area is very easy to prosecute when they're all streaming themselves doing it live.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:30 PM on January 8, 2021 [32 favorites]
Argybarg, let us now replace the Stone of Contention with the Stone of Mutual Respect.
And... back to the doomscrolling.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:30 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
And... back to the doomscrolling.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:30 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
The very instant Murkowski officially starts caucusing with the Democrats is the instant I will stop counting her as an enemy of America. She voted to acquit Trump, she was one of the votes keeping Mitch McConnell as Majority Leader for the past four years, and she's "expressed concern" countless times.
I offer her no sympathy or understanding until she takes action and switches her caucus.
posted by sotonohito at 2:35 PM on January 8, 2021 [48 favorites]
I offer her no sympathy or understanding until she takes action and switches her caucus.
posted by sotonohito at 2:35 PM on January 8, 2021 [48 favorites]
I suppose the other thing with charging on minor offenses now is that if Trump pardons those specifically you've got stronger charges in your back pocket. And if he blanket pardons there's going to finally be an answer on the constitutionality of blanket pardons at least, and this is a damn good case to test that on.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 2:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
procrastination: "Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski calls on President Trump to resign, questions her future as a Republican"
So brave.
posted by chavenet at 2:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
So brave.
posted by chavenet at 2:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
“Republican Sen. Ben Sasse tells CBS he's open to impeachment,” according to one tweet, and my first thought was “that fucker is being extremely obliging; why can’t 45 be more cooperative?”
posted by Bella Donna at 2:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 2:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Feels like a million years ago (or 3 days and numerous megathreads), but it's worth noting that with a 50/50 senate there's potentially a huge impact from any single [R] that drops their party affiliation to [I] and choses to caucus with the Democrats. This WaPo article explains how Harris' tiebreaker vote doesn't come into play until after the Senate sets the budget & committees for the year: "...when the Senate was evenly divided at the start of 2001, its Republican and Democratic leaders -- Trent Lott of Mississippi and Tom Daschle of South Dakota -- negotiated a power-sharing agreement that provided for equal membership on committees, and equal budgets for committee Republicans and Democrats, though the majority leader retained the right to advance a measure or nomination from a committee in the event of a tie vote. There could be an effort to reach a similar power-sharing agreement after Jan. 20." In other words, McConnell's still got at least one more obstructionist card to play to royally fuck things up after Ossoff & Warnock are sworn in.
Until Murkowski / Romney / Collins actually up and does it though, I read every statement like this as round 37974 million of being "deeply concerned."
posted by deludingmyself at 2:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [25 favorites]
Until Murkowski / Romney / Collins actually up and does it though, I read every statement like this as round 37974 million of being "deeply concerned."
posted by deludingmyself at 2:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [25 favorites]
Oh yeah, I don't owe any response to "I'm concerned, maybe I'll leave my party." Even in a face-to-face situation I think it would be better to stay silent on that point. I just take that as a bargaining chip — she wants to be the GOP's Manchin, the tiebreaker.
posted by argybarg at 2:42 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by argybarg at 2:42 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
I don't think even changing parties saves these people enough face anymore.
In what world did any of them not encounter Donald Trump in some way shape or form during their life in America and not somehow understand he was an unmitigated piece of shit.
Are they really that out of touch with reality that they truly thought he only played a character on TV? That the man who has shown us repeatedly, long before he ran for President, exactly who he was? Were they truly so oblivious? I find it hard to swallow.
To quote some amazing Johns:
"Can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
I'm just done with all of them. (as if I wasn't already.)
posted by deadaluspark at 2:42 PM on January 8, 2021 [44 favorites]
In what world did any of them not encounter Donald Trump in some way shape or form during their life in America and not somehow understand he was an unmitigated piece of shit.
Are they really that out of touch with reality that they truly thought he only played a character on TV? That the man who has shown us repeatedly, long before he ran for President, exactly who he was? Were they truly so oblivious? I find it hard to swallow.
To quote some amazing Johns:
"Can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
I'm just done with all of them. (as if I wasn't already.)
posted by deadaluspark at 2:42 PM on January 8, 2021 [44 favorites]
I agree with everyone piling on Murkowski. I just thought the news was worth sharing because she uses shockingly direct language for a Republican and it suggests that momentum may be building among Republicans for hammering on the resignation exit plan.
posted by Bella Donna at 2:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [30 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 2:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [30 favorites]
When I first got my job working for the state of Georgia in the 1980s, I was required to sign a loyalty oath stating that I had never been a member of the communist party, among other things. Although I have since come to find the idea of loyalty oaths repugnant, recent events have made me think requiring government employees to explicitly disavow the confederacy and disallowing membership in the Proud Boys/Boogaloo movement/Oathkeepers/3%ers/ and any other group advocating overthrow of our democratic republic may not be a bad idea.
I had a similar thought today, but less generous. I say it's time to reconvene HUAC, only this time we go after real un-American activities. "Are you now, or have you ever been, a supporter of Donald J. Trump?"
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [18 favorites]
I had a similar thought today, but less generous. I say it's time to reconvene HUAC, only this time we go after real un-American activities. "Are you now, or have you ever been, a supporter of Donald J. Trump?"
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [18 favorites]
Hundreds of Twitter employees sign letter asking Jack Dorsey to permanently suspend Trump’s account
Wondering if the Post included a picture of his face with an extremely punchable expression on purpose.
We covered this, like, two months ago.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Wondering if the Post included a picture of his face with an extremely punchable expression on purpose.
We covered this, like, two months ago.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Politico: DeVos resigned after believing 25th Amendment was off the table
posted by jedicus at 2:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
DeVos decided to step down from the Cabinet after learning that Vice President Mike Pence opposed calls to invoke the 25th Amendment to oust Trump from office before Jan. 20, the adviser said.This suggests it was Pence, not a lack of votes among the Cabinet. Trump will never resign, even if the entire Senate stated publicly that they would vote to convict. His whole career, candidacy, and presidency have been marked, over and over, by transgressing and then daring others to actually call him on it. And then daring them to actually enforce whatever comes of it.
posted by jedicus at 2:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
I understand the impulse but no, let’s not go there. We’ll be too busy chasing down criminals.
posted by Bella Donna at 2:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Bella Donna at 2:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
So, if Dumpster issues pardons after he's impeached but before he's convicted, does that provide any legal basis to block them?
posted by Dashy at 2:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Dashy at 2:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Murkowski and Sasse saying the things they've said is worth noting for whatever pressure rhetoric can exert. It also shows some actual fracturing within the Republican party and some of them looking at life after Trump.
I don't think anyone here mistakes it for action. It's all rhetoric until & unless something actually happens.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
I don't think anyone here mistakes it for action. It's all rhetoric until & unless something actually happens.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
Also, DeVos allegedly stepping out because there was no movement on the 25th falls in line with stuff I've seen about Chao, and I gotta say it's an eyeroll. If they really felt that way, they could have said so in their resignation statements. It might've mattered then. Staying on and saying they were only hanging in there to push the 25th would've done more good, too. Sure, they'd be fired instantly, but it would be better than running and hiding.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
The Man Who Saw Yesterday’s Coup Attempt Coming Is Only Surprised It Wasn’t Much Worse.
They had a map of the tunnels [in the basement of the Capitol], and they were talking about how they're going to be able to stop Congress from leaving. They imagined that this was the day there were going to be mass executions of Congressmen.
posted by adamvasco at 2:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [39 favorites]
They had a map of the tunnels [in the basement of the Capitol], and they were talking about how they're going to be able to stop Congress from leaving. They imagined that this was the day there were going to be mass executions of Congressmen.
posted by adamvasco at 2:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [39 favorites]
I'm not so sure that Trump would do a blanket pardon of the rioters. The vast majority of them are not his personal friends or allies (or have connections to same) so it's probably in his best interest to just keep telling them "sure I can do a blanket pardon, but only if you and/or your unjailed friends (insert act intended for Trump's benefit) first".
posted by gtrwolf at 2:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by gtrwolf at 2:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Sure, they'd be fired instantly, but it would be better than running and hiding.
Sure, they could have done tons of things better!
All of these people have repeatedly shown they lack the capacity to do so.
It's still a surprise Pence folded.
posted by deadaluspark at 2:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
Sure, they could have done tons of things better!
All of these people have repeatedly shown they lack the capacity to do so.
It's still a surprise Pence folded.
posted by deadaluspark at 2:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
The Murkowski thing is not nothing, it's notable news. It's not worth pinning our hopes on and it's infuriatingly late in the game but it's as good a window into the behind-the-scenes situation as we're getting.
And she's in a spot where self-interest and her leverage align, so it's not even really about relying on her to make the right choice out of morality. She could get the Dems to agree to help reelect her if she switched to Independent and caucused with them and voted to convict and it would be a smart move for them to take if they were damn sure she'd be the deciding vote between winning and losing conviction. She beat a Tea Party opponent as a write-in, she's well positioned to be a Manchin type.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
And she's in a spot where self-interest and her leverage align, so it's not even really about relying on her to make the right choice out of morality. She could get the Dems to agree to help reelect her if she switched to Independent and caucused with them and voted to convict and it would be a smart move for them to take if they were damn sure she'd be the deciding vote between winning and losing conviction. She beat a Tea Party opponent as a write-in, she's well positioned to be a Manchin type.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
You guys actually want to see Trump impeached and convicted, or resigning under the threat of it? Then it is absolutely essential to get Republican Senators on board. Period. About twenty of them. Is that likely? I doubt it. But the first ones to break the dam are crucial to the possibility of it happening at all.
Is it too little too late? Of course. But it's going to be too little too late for *any* Republican Senator (except arguably, who'd have thunk it, Mitt Romney, who actually voted to convict him the first time around.) And ... OK. Fine. Take that as a given. We still need to get them on board if at all possible, because there is an ongoing insurrection in progress that just resulted in an armed attack on the Capitol Building.
Her saying Trump must go is a good thing.
posted by kyrademon at 2:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [59 favorites]
Is it too little too late? Of course. But it's going to be too little too late for *any* Republican Senator (except arguably, who'd have thunk it, Mitt Romney, who actually voted to convict him the first time around.) And ... OK. Fine. Take that as a given. We still need to get them on board if at all possible, because there is an ongoing insurrection in progress that just resulted in an armed attack on the Capitol Building.
Her saying Trump must go is a good thing.
posted by kyrademon at 2:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [59 favorites]
Also, DeVos allegedly stepping out because there was no movement on the 25th falls in line with stuff I've seen about Chao, and I gotta say it's an eyeroll. If they really felt that way, they could have said so in their resignation statements. It might've mattered then. Staying on and saying they were only hanging in there to push the 25th would've done more good, too. Sure, they'd be fired instantly, but it would be better than running and hiding.
They could just sit on their hands for two weeks and keep quiet and ready to sign on if needed if they seriously wanted to use the 25th! I don't believe they actually did.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
They could just sit on their hands for two weeks and keep quiet and ready to sign on if needed if they seriously wanted to use the 25th! I don't believe they actually did.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
And she's in a spot where self-interest and her leverage align, so it's not even really about relying on her to make the right choice out of morality.
No, period. This is exactly the attitude we need to excise out of our government like the fucking cancer that it is. Making the right choice because of morality is literally what is at stake here, the ability to do that in the future without an authoritarian boot in our face.
If that's what she's coming to the table with she needs to be kicked to the curb.
posted by deadaluspark at 2:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
No, period. This is exactly the attitude we need to excise out of our government like the fucking cancer that it is. Making the right choice because of morality is literally what is at stake here, the ability to do that in the future without an authoritarian boot in our face.
If that's what she's coming to the table with she needs to be kicked to the curb.
posted by deadaluspark at 2:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Trump did not seemingly admit to losing; he said there would be an orderly transition to the next administration. He will never say Biden won or that he lost, and it seems likely that tomorrow he will say the "next administration" will be his.
I don't know about "likely", but that's an interesting echo of what Pompeo said on Nov. 10:
Agreed. Or gotten all the cabinet members who were for the 25th to put together a joint statement. But that would mean taking a stand.
posted by trig at 2:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
I don't know about "likely", but that's an interesting echo of what Pompeo said on Nov. 10:
“I am very confident that we will have a good transition, that we will make sure that whoever is in office on noon on January 20th has all the tools readily available so we don’t skip a beat with the capacity to keep Americans safe,” Pompeo said.Also, DeVos allegedly stepping out because there was no movement on the 25th falls in line with stuff I've seen about Chao, and I gotta say it's an eyeroll. If they really felt that way, they could have said so in their resignation statements.
Earlier at a State Department briefing, he said: “There will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration.”
Agreed. Or gotten all the cabinet members who were for the 25th to put together a joint statement. But that would mean taking a stand.
posted by trig at 2:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
Two days ago, the streaming videos and viral photos were things like “man sitting at Pelosi’s desk with his feet up” and half-naked guy with a fur hat and horns or people pushing over undermanned barricades or strolling between the ropes in the rotunda. Now I’m seeing more terrifying ones like this mad hallway crush video (Daily Mail/Storyful) which shows a Capitol Policeman getting crushed against a door as a rioters urge him to “join us” and “go home dude”, “pick the right side” as someone reaches over and pulls off his gas mask.
Any congressperson or senator who is sitting on the fence re impeachment (and every cabinet member quaking at the idea of the 25th) need to watch this and realize, these people were coming for you.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [69 favorites]
Any congressperson or senator who is sitting on the fence re impeachment (and every cabinet member quaking at the idea of the 25th) need to watch this and realize, these people were coming for you.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [69 favorites]
I gotta say it's an eyeroll. If they really felt that way, they could have said so in their resignation statements. It might've mattered then. Staying on and saying they were only hanging in there to push the 25th would've done more good, too.
I strongly agree about that. They could at least have taken a strong public stance and forced Pence's hand (or Trump's).
posted by jedicus at 2:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
I strongly agree about that. They could at least have taken a strong public stance and forced Pence's hand (or Trump's).
posted by jedicus at 2:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
If impeachment starts, Trump will only be thinking about himself. I know that is his normal state but his narcissistic self pitying will be turned up to max. He won't have to time to pardon anyone especially if it involves anything more than tweeting.
posted by rdr at 2:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by rdr at 2:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Stop Pretending "This Is Not Who We Are"
(NYTimes Opinion Video; Lindsay Crouse, Adam Westbrook, and Sanya Dosani)
posted by pjenks at 3:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
(NYTimes Opinion Video; Lindsay Crouse, Adam Westbrook, and Sanya Dosani)
posted by pjenks at 3:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
If your Trumpy family member came around, would you pick that instant to let them know they would never, no matter how hard they tried, be welcome in your party?
My Trumpy family members would rather drink bleach than join the Democratic Party. "Welcoming with open arms" is often tantamount to allowing bad-faith actors to walk all over you. Your handshake gets met with a slap.
These people may abandon Trump and the MAGA aesthetic, but it'll just be renamed something else in a year or so and they'll follow some other demagogue. Expecting them to switch over to the "satanic liberals" (a term an acquaintance of mine used with a straight face) is a fantasy. And I'm not going to spend a lot of time and energy trying to recruit. If they want to atone and join "our side," then great. But the first--and really only--step they have to take is owning up to their mistake of being a goddamn fascist.
posted by zardoz at 3:04 PM on January 8, 2021 [25 favorites]
My Trumpy family members would rather drink bleach than join the Democratic Party. "Welcoming with open arms" is often tantamount to allowing bad-faith actors to walk all over you. Your handshake gets met with a slap.
These people may abandon Trump and the MAGA aesthetic, but it'll just be renamed something else in a year or so and they'll follow some other demagogue. Expecting them to switch over to the "satanic liberals" (a term an acquaintance of mine used with a straight face) is a fantasy. And I'm not going to spend a lot of time and energy trying to recruit. If they want to atone and join "our side," then great. But the first--and really only--step they have to take is owning up to their mistake of being a goddamn fascist.
posted by zardoz at 3:04 PM on January 8, 2021 [25 favorites]
And at the very least, the instant when a Republican says "I can't take this any more, I'm about done with this party" is the absolutely worst moment to jump in with "Oh NOW you care, huh? What has been wrong with you?" If your Trumpy family member came around, would you pick that instant to let them know they would never, no matter how hard they tried, be welcome in your party?
A family member seeing the light and renouncing Trump is not exactly comparable. There are no stakes for my aunt to switch parties, and she wields no power. A politician who, now that her career is at stake by association, once again cries wolf about her concerns deserves to be regarded with skepticism. Democratic Senators might have to be diplomatic; voters absolutely do not have to be and probably shouldn't be. I mean unless Murkowski is scrolling this thread right now.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:05 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
A family member seeing the light and renouncing Trump is not exactly comparable. There are no stakes for my aunt to switch parties, and she wields no power. A politician who, now that her career is at stake by association, once again cries wolf about her concerns deserves to be regarded with skepticism. Democratic Senators might have to be diplomatic; voters absolutely do not have to be and probably shouldn't be. I mean unless Murkowski is scrolling this thread right now.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:05 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
I wish Murkowski's statement would've ended with her intention to resign as senator after Trump is out.
Domestic Terrorism: A More Urgent Threat, but Weaker Laws (Pro Publica, Jan. 7, 2021) In the days leading up to the attack on the U.S. Capitol, the FBI received intelligence that extremists were planning violence as lawmakers gathered in Washington to certify the electoral victory of President-elect Joe Biden. FBI officials managed to dissuade people in several places from their suspected plans, a senior FBI official said — but there was not enough evidence to issue arrest warrants. [...] Although the official did not describe the tactics used, it is not uncommon for the FBI to disrupt potential threats by warning suspected extremists, passing the word indirectly through informants or using local law enforcement to pursue suspects for lower-level offenses.
F'instance: Before attaining elected office, arrestee-of-the-day Derrick Evans was best-known as an anti-abortion protester. Evans' harassment led a female clinic worker to file for and receive a restraining order over "alleged stalking and repeated threats of bodily injury", an order which Evans subsequently violated: Anti-abortion protester violates restraining order from Charleston clinic worker (Charleston Gazette-Mail, June 4, 2019) Much of the harassment alleged in the motion can be seen on video on Evans’ Facebook page, Miller’s attorney, Sean Cook, said. [...] On several occasions Evans denied the restraining order even existed. He also falsely claimed the court granted a personal safety order against Miller on his behalf, according to the motion. A year and a half later, Evans was elected to the West Virginia House of Delegates.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:06 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
Domestic Terrorism: A More Urgent Threat, but Weaker Laws (Pro Publica, Jan. 7, 2021) In the days leading up to the attack on the U.S. Capitol, the FBI received intelligence that extremists were planning violence as lawmakers gathered in Washington to certify the electoral victory of President-elect Joe Biden. FBI officials managed to dissuade people in several places from their suspected plans, a senior FBI official said — but there was not enough evidence to issue arrest warrants. [...] Although the official did not describe the tactics used, it is not uncommon for the FBI to disrupt potential threats by warning suspected extremists, passing the word indirectly through informants or using local law enforcement to pursue suspects for lower-level offenses.
F'instance: Before attaining elected office, arrestee-of-the-day Derrick Evans was best-known as an anti-abortion protester. Evans' harassment led a female clinic worker to file for and receive a restraining order over "alleged stalking and repeated threats of bodily injury", an order which Evans subsequently violated: Anti-abortion protester violates restraining order from Charleston clinic worker (Charleston Gazette-Mail, June 4, 2019) Much of the harassment alleged in the motion can be seen on video on Evans’ Facebook page, Miller’s attorney, Sean Cook, said. [...] On several occasions Evans denied the restraining order even existed. He also falsely claimed the court granted a personal safety order against Miller on his behalf, according to the motion. A year and a half later, Evans was elected to the West Virginia House of Delegates.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:06 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
I consider the events of this week to be a 9/11-level political event. Thinking back to the aftermath of that terrible attack, I believe that the immediate follow-up was completely warped by the Bush administration.
The opportunity for the Biden administration is to not turn the page, but to use the hard power and the soft power that he will command in two weeks.
The hard power is using the existing government mechanisms to investigate the events of this week, to firmly determine why they happened, enforce consequences, enact reforms and improvements. Communicate these results and adjustments to the American people clearly and simply. Repeat this with every other facet of the Trump administration (corruption, the political appointee approval process, election standards and so on). He's got about a year to do this before the 2022 campaigns begin.
The soft power is to identify the remaining Republicans in the House and Senate who are politically astute enough to recognize their opportunity to salvage their political lives. This very small group can be found somewhere in the minority of Rs who did not vote to object to the electoral college results. The remainder should be excluded from the conversation until they want to return or they are voted out. Biden and the Democrats can pull out the chair, but it is up to the Republicans to sit in it.
It is critical that the Democrats frame the narrative of this entire period in such a way that will reduce Republican rhetorical power and talking points.
posted by JDC8 at 3:06 PM on January 8, 2021 [29 favorites]
The opportunity for the Biden administration is to not turn the page, but to use the hard power and the soft power that he will command in two weeks.
The hard power is using the existing government mechanisms to investigate the events of this week, to firmly determine why they happened, enforce consequences, enact reforms and improvements. Communicate these results and adjustments to the American people clearly and simply. Repeat this with every other facet of the Trump administration (corruption, the political appointee approval process, election standards and so on). He's got about a year to do this before the 2022 campaigns begin.
The soft power is to identify the remaining Republicans in the House and Senate who are politically astute enough to recognize their opportunity to salvage their political lives. This very small group can be found somewhere in the minority of Rs who did not vote to object to the electoral college results. The remainder should be excluded from the conversation until they want to return or they are voted out. Biden and the Democrats can pull out the chair, but it is up to the Republicans to sit in it.
It is critical that the Democrats frame the narrative of this entire period in such a way that will reduce Republican rhetorical power and talking points.
posted by JDC8 at 3:06 PM on January 8, 2021 [29 favorites]
Big Fuck You to any and all Republican politicians that didn't leave the party when rayon don got the nomination for 2016 and are now speaking out. Sit your phony, complicit asses down, shut up, and vote for impeachment / conviction / never holding office again.
posted by WeekendJen at 3:07 PM on January 8, 2021 [24 favorites]
posted by WeekendJen at 3:07 PM on January 8, 2021 [24 favorites]
Stealing Air Force one to flee to Moscow would be very challenging for Trump. The plane is managed by the Air Force and the entire chain of command down to the pilots would need to be willing to obey orders that would have questionable legality as would his security detail. I’m skeptical that all those folks would go along with it and risk their pensions and their freedom.
If Trump is still commander-in-chief at noon on January 19th, the orders would absolutely be legal. (My bad for calling it stealing when it wouldn't actually be stealing until noon on January 20.)
posted by heatherlogan at 3:08 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
If Trump is still commander-in-chief at noon on January 19th, the orders would absolutely be legal. (My bad for calling it stealing when it wouldn't actually be stealing until noon on January 20.)
posted by heatherlogan at 3:08 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
What a loser.
posted by Beholder at 3:09 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Beholder at 3:09 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Pelosi is fast tracking impeachment.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [21 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 3:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [21 favorites]
I just really have a hard time believing that we're going to break out of the Trump Ouroboros for the first time like, ever. It always goes:
1. Trump does insane heinous thing
2. Doubles and triples down
3. Makes some highly scripted statement that appears to contradict the insane thing he did
4. Contradicts #3 entirely and we're back to #1.
We're at #3 right now with that farce of a video statement. And now we're going into the weekend, where (and I hate that I know this about this man) he tends to get even crankier, up and tweeting at all hours of the day and issuing 40 tweet screeds usually on a Sunday.
posted by lazaruslong at 3:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [20 favorites]
1. Trump does insane heinous thing
2. Doubles and triples down
3. Makes some highly scripted statement that appears to contradict the insane thing he did
4. Contradicts #3 entirely and we're back to #1.
We're at #3 right now with that farce of a video statement. And now we're going into the weekend, where (and I hate that I know this about this man) he tends to get even crankier, up and tweeting at all hours of the day and issuing 40 tweet screeds usually on a Sunday.
posted by lazaruslong at 3:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [20 favorites]
They need to investigate the last 20 years of right wing media as material assistance to a terrorist threat to the United States. The government pulled out no stops doing that to all left wing institutions and pubications from the 1930s through the 1970s (at least), specifically citing that even talking to a Communist was abetting the overthrow of the Constitution. That overthrow is exactly what has been building on the right for multiple decades, and needs to be rooted out using the full power of the federal government.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 3:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 3:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
This very small group can be found somewhere in the minority of Rs who did not vote to object to the electoral college results.
For the record, the vast majority of Republican Senators did not vote to sustain the objections and less than a majority of Republican House members did as well. Many of them said some odious shit on the way to doing the right thing in some small way, but it weren't no majority in either chamber.
posted by wierdo at 3:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
For the record, the vast majority of Republican Senators did not vote to sustain the objections and less than a majority of Republican House members did as well. Many of them said some odious shit on the way to doing the right thing in some small way, but it weren't no majority in either chamber.
posted by wierdo at 3:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
We don't have to throw a parade for Murkowski or promise her anything more than some electoral support that's contingent on her supporting Democratic priorities. She was a Trump enabler, and before that an Obama obstructionist, and before that a Bush 43 enabler. Those stains will never wash out. But if she's ready to give us an insurance vote to reduce Manchin's bargaining power and protect us in the event of an early retirement or other unforeseen absence / loss of a Democrat, I say welcome to the resistance, Senator.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 3:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Apple's announcement that they will delete Parler app unless they provide moderation:
"Good to see this development from @Apple. @GooglePlay what are you going to do about apps being used to organize violence on your platform?"
posted by valkane at 3:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [86 favorites]
"Good to see this development from @Apple. @GooglePlay what are you going to do about apps being used to organize violence on your platform?"
posted by valkane at 3:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [86 favorites]
I would welcome the "concerned" Republicans into the Democratic party, although I wouldn't give them much in return. The senate majority is on a knife's edge right now and Manchin, from bright red WV, would suffer little consequence for flipping and bringing back Mitch.
posted by pjenks at 3:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by pjenks at 3:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
I agree that we need to see, ya know, action from Murkowski, not just words. And I'm super-skeptical given the history. But. If she were to actually caucus with the Democrats, wow, that would actually make a serious difference with respect to how the Senate functions for the next couple (important!) years, if I'm understanding things the right way, since it would mean that the Democrats would not have to split committees right down the middle. It really wouldn't even matter if Murkowski went on to reliably vote with the Republicans thereafter, the committees would be under much stronger control by the Democrats, and that would mean that a lot more can get done.
If I'm wrong about what the organizational process looks like in the Senate, someone please correct me.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 3:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
If I'm wrong about what the organizational process looks like in the Senate, someone please correct me.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 3:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
I wish Murkowski's statement would've ended with her intention to resign as senator after Trump is out.
If she resigns, doesn't the governor of Alaska appoint a replacement? That's not a win for anyone.
posted by meowzilla at 3:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
If she resigns, doesn't the governor of Alaska appoint a replacement? That's not a win for anyone.
posted by meowzilla at 3:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
No, period. This is exactly the attitude we need to excise out of our government like the fucking cancer that it is. Making the right choice because of morality is literally what is at stake here, the ability to do that in the future without an authoritarian boot in our face.
If that's what she's coming to the table with she needs to be kicked to the curb.
Yeah, no, getting Lisa Murkowski and more Republicans to make the right choice out of almost whatever the hell motivation they need to do it is a hell of a lot more important. Back up a truck of money to their house if you need to. Trump doesn't back off because he's impressed with our sterling morals and clean hands.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
If that's what she's coming to the table with she needs to be kicked to the curb.
Yeah, no, getting Lisa Murkowski and more Republicans to make the right choice out of almost whatever the hell motivation they need to do it is a hell of a lot more important. Back up a truck of money to their house if you need to. Trump doesn't back off because he's impressed with our sterling morals and clean hands.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
Some states have special elections after the placeholder appointments?
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
these people were coming for you.
As someone said upthread, it's white privilege at work. People seem throngs of angry white folks and still think they were just there for giggles and fun.
Regarding the video of the woman being shot dead. I'd already been traumatized seeing that lady's body on live TV before we ever knew an inkling of the story behind how she died. Someone posted the full video where everything is visible, and it's absolutely, positively astounding how much privilege is there.
I know all about white privilege. I've taught the concept in classes, so formal instruction. And I'm familiar with it from black media like Chappelle's "Killin em Softly" (filmed in DC) where he talked about the white privilege his friend displayed when they were pulled over by police, high on marijuana. I know about it from decades of listening to thousands of rap songs, reading all kinds of news articles, journal articles, books and papers.
I live it. I see it manifest in everything from people thinking they "act like you belong"ed their way into something when in reality it's white privilege, to tv commercials.
I can flummoxed, flabbergasted and legitimately taken aback by the white privilege on display in that video. It's 100% shocking, even for me. This woman gets shot in the neck, and people pretty quickly realize she's dead. Cops in tactical gear and helmets, with guns, are yelling at the rest of the crowd to get back, and they don't even consider it. They record, they shout at the cops, and one woman gets up in an officers face yelling mad at him.
I'm shaking. It's literally unthinkable that a group of black people could do anything close to any of that and not have it be an absolutely slaughter, inside any building police were deliberately protecting, much less the united states capitol building where congress was working to certify an election and count the votes from every state in the United States of America.
It isn't even possible to imagine a bunch of black men and black women storming a building, one of their group gets shot dead, they barely flinch, and then people begin getting up in police person's faces and start screaming at them, mad that they killed somebody. It's absolutely unreal that this mob of people did that after that lady was shot to death, and then....nothing happened to them. Nothing. Unreal.
A lot of folks have said they hadn't felt this way since 9/11. For me, it was Katrina. When I watched people paint "Help" on their roofs, and no help ever came, and days later they died, I felt like this. Crazy. Thank you all of you for posting links, sharing information, giving details about obscure laws or nuances of well known ones, and posting your disgust and heartbreak. God bless this place.
posted by cashman at 3:20 PM on January 8, 2021 [132 favorites]
As someone said upthread, it's white privilege at work. People seem throngs of angry white folks and still think they were just there for giggles and fun.
Regarding the video of the woman being shot dead. I'd already been traumatized seeing that lady's body on live TV before we ever knew an inkling of the story behind how she died. Someone posted the full video where everything is visible, and it's absolutely, positively astounding how much privilege is there.
I know all about white privilege. I've taught the concept in classes, so formal instruction. And I'm familiar with it from black media like Chappelle's "Killin em Softly" (filmed in DC) where he talked about the white privilege his friend displayed when they were pulled over by police, high on marijuana. I know about it from decades of listening to thousands of rap songs, reading all kinds of news articles, journal articles, books and papers.
I live it. I see it manifest in everything from people thinking they "act like you belong"ed their way into something when in reality it's white privilege, to tv commercials.
I can flummoxed, flabbergasted and legitimately taken aback by the white privilege on display in that video. It's 100% shocking, even for me. This woman gets shot in the neck, and people pretty quickly realize she's dead. Cops in tactical gear and helmets, with guns, are yelling at the rest of the crowd to get back, and they don't even consider it. They record, they shout at the cops, and one woman gets up in an officers face yelling mad at him.
I'm shaking. It's literally unthinkable that a group of black people could do anything close to any of that and not have it be an absolutely slaughter, inside any building police were deliberately protecting, much less the united states capitol building where congress was working to certify an election and count the votes from every state in the United States of America.
It isn't even possible to imagine a bunch of black men and black women storming a building, one of their group gets shot dead, they barely flinch, and then people begin getting up in police person's faces and start screaming at them, mad that they killed somebody. It's absolutely unreal that this mob of people did that after that lady was shot to death, and then....nothing happened to them. Nothing. Unreal.
A lot of folks have said they hadn't felt this way since 9/11. For me, it was Katrina. When I watched people paint "Help" on their roofs, and no help ever came, and days later they died, I felt like this. Crazy. Thank you all of you for posting links, sharing information, giving details about obscure laws or nuances of well known ones, and posting your disgust and heartbreak. God bless this place.
posted by cashman at 3:20 PM on January 8, 2021 [132 favorites]
Mod note: Guys, let's not do the megathread thing where we argue in circles for dozens of comments about whether a Republican's sudden seeing-of-the-light is a) sincere or b) good enough at this very late date. It doesn't add anything to the discussion and it tends to spin up into fights between mefites about idealists vs. realists etc. and gets weirdly ugly.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 3:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [44 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 3:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [44 favorites]
theodolite: "Trump got banned from Twitter"
Well, suspended anyway.
posted by chavenet at 3:23 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Well, suspended anyway.
posted by chavenet at 3:23 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Some states have special elections after the placeholder appointments?
Thanks, Alaska appears to be one of the few states that would have a special election immediately (60-90 days) after the resignation: Ballotpedia
posted by meowzilla at 3:23 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Thanks, Alaska appears to be one of the few states that would have a special election immediately (60-90 days) after the resignation: Ballotpedia
posted by meowzilla at 3:23 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
About fucking time.
posted by leotrotsky at 3:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 3:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
I'm not so sure that Trump would do a blanket pardon of the rioters.
I agree - he has nothing to gain from pardoning them. They're not rich; they're not his friends; they won't be lobbying on his behalf or granting him political favors. They're not high-profile enough to use to draw in other supporters. And if he did want to pardon them, he'd have to (or someone would have to) figure out the phrasing: Pardon "everyone who broke into the Capitol building?" "Everyone who took part in the protest?" "All Trump supporters who protested at the Capitol on Jan 6?" Pardoning a mob with a fuzzy identity is difficult.
Should he decide to pardon some of them, the FBI can investigate conspiracy charges against people who weren't physically present, demanding testimony from the people who were pardoned, who won't have the 5th to fall back on because they have immunity.
And being pardoned doesn't free them from civil liability; they could still be sued - and again, required to testify.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
I agree - he has nothing to gain from pardoning them. They're not rich; they're not his friends; they won't be lobbying on his behalf or granting him political favors. They're not high-profile enough to use to draw in other supporters. And if he did want to pardon them, he'd have to (or someone would have to) figure out the phrasing: Pardon "everyone who broke into the Capitol building?" "Everyone who took part in the protest?" "All Trump supporters who protested at the Capitol on Jan 6?" Pardoning a mob with a fuzzy identity is difficult.
Should he decide to pardon some of them, the FBI can investigate conspiracy charges against people who weren't physically present, demanding testimony from the people who were pardoned, who won't have the 5th to fall back on because they have immunity.
And being pardoned doesn't free them from civil liability; they could still be sued - and again, required to testify.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
I submit it's possible to believe these folks had absolutely horrible intentions and were racist (either overtly or by casting a blind eye), but had absolutely zero plan.
The did have The Plan though, which they trusted in, which was a huge vague thing that meant whatever they thought it did at any given moment. I genuinely think they believed there part was to storm the capital and then they'd get further orders - perhaps orders that would let them in on what The Plan actually was. As it happens, there was no Plan and some will come around and realize this and some will do that cult think where the fact that The Plan didn't materialize is evidence that The Plan exists and will happen later.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
The did have The Plan though, which they trusted in, which was a huge vague thing that meant whatever they thought it did at any given moment. I genuinely think they believed there part was to storm the capital and then they'd get further orders - perhaps orders that would let them in on what The Plan actually was. As it happens, there was no Plan and some will come around and realize this and some will do that cult think where the fact that The Plan didn't materialize is evidence that The Plan exists and will happen later.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
Ugh. I have to say, the increasing solidity of prosecutions for the participants in the January 6th Putsch has got me down, because it seems like that process and focus on abhorrence of the Nazis involved and the shock of the ghost of Hitler instrumentally taking a shit on the desks that signed his death warrant, and the not-seemingly-particularly-safety-related vengeance on Trump, will serve as a substitute for substantively dealing with all of the things that have been permanently fucked up here in this century and particularly during the last five years.
We couldn't follow the simple step-by-step century-plus-old instructions for “How to Stop Nazis From Taking Over Your Government” and “How to Prevent a Pandemic From Causing Mass Casualties”. Now, there are actually similar books with titles figuratively along the lines of “So You Fucked Up and Allowed Nazis to Take Over Your Government and Now Your Country is Falling Apart, Here's What To Do.”
But, we won't be following the latter either. We're just going to watch the Visigoths and Ostrogoths invade and occasionally watch Nazis open the gates to them. (And remember, we're not just a nation, we're an empire and the foremost power in a global hegemony, unless we on the left don't believe the stuff we've been saying forever, so the decrepitude of the empire is indeed material to the state we're in even if morally it shouldn't exist—check out this comment in a salient simultaneously-open thread next door.)
Because we're not just America, we're America in the twenty-first century—do you even know how exceptional that makes us, bro? This is a job for old-fashioned American know-how and innovation in hybrid slavery-slash-democratic forms of government! </🍔>
posted by XMLicious at 3:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
We couldn't follow the simple step-by-step century-plus-old instructions for “How to Stop Nazis From Taking Over Your Government” and “How to Prevent a Pandemic From Causing Mass Casualties”. Now, there are actually similar books with titles figuratively along the lines of “So You Fucked Up and Allowed Nazis to Take Over Your Government and Now Your Country is Falling Apart, Here's What To Do.”
But, we won't be following the latter either. We're just going to watch the Visigoths and Ostrogoths invade and occasionally watch Nazis open the gates to them. (And remember, we're not just a nation, we're an empire and the foremost power in a global hegemony, unless we on the left don't believe the stuff we've been saying forever, so the decrepitude of the empire is indeed material to the state we're in even if morally it shouldn't exist—check out this comment in a salient simultaneously-open thread next door.)
Because we're not just America, we're America in the twenty-first century—do you even know how exceptional that makes us, bro? This is a job for old-fashioned American know-how and innovation in hybrid slavery-slash-democratic forms of government! </🍔>
posted by XMLicious at 3:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
"After close review of recent Tweets from the @realDonaldTrump account and the context around them we have permanently suspended the account due to the risk of further incitement of violence." -- Twitter Safety
posted by valkane at 3:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [67 favorites]
posted by valkane at 3:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [67 favorites]
saturday_morning: "It's permanent."
such nice. (also, very brave)
posted by chavenet at 3:27 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
such nice. (also, very brave)
posted by chavenet at 3:27 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
Trump got banned from Twitter
The Washington Post WH correspondent said that Trump may have been planning to release another video tonight. Now I'm wondering if this was just in time, or if someone at Twitter got a look at it before it had a chance to go live.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 3:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
The Washington Post WH correspondent said that Trump may have been planning to release another video tonight. Now I'm wondering if this was just in time, or if someone at Twitter got a look at it before it had a chance to go live.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 3:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
THEY DID IT.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Going To Maine at 3:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm gonna miss saying, "there's always a tweet", though...
Naw, not really.
posted by Groundhog Week at 3:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Naw, not really.
posted by Groundhog Week at 3:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Thanks for enabling his presidency up until today, you Twit fuckers.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 3:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [49 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 3:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [49 favorites]
All it took was a coup.
posted by leotrotsky at 3:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [82 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 3:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [82 favorites]
Today is the day that Donald Trump truly becomes President.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [42 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 3:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [42 favorites]
I was briefly tempted to get back on twitter (where I haven't been in months, now) just to celebrate.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 3:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 3:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Trump got banned from Twitter
Bet he's wishing he'd used the POTUS45 account for gov't stuff now.
I am entirely unsurprised. Once the votes were counted, it was only a matter of time; he was no longer in a position to protect Twitter from the consequences of their racist, sexist, and otherwise biased policies.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:30 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
Bet he's wishing he'd used the POTUS45 account for gov't stuff now.
I am entirely unsurprised. Once the votes were counted, it was only a matter of time; he was no longer in a position to protect Twitter from the consequences of their racist, sexist, and otherwise biased policies.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:30 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
Does a Twitter ban make it more or less likely he gets removed from office? It sorta makes him invisible for a little while.
posted by leotrotsky at 3:30 PM on January 8, 2021
posted by leotrotsky at 3:30 PM on January 8, 2021
"The Twitter presidency has ended" -- Amy Siskind
posted by valkane at 3:31 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by valkane at 3:31 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
Perma'd from Facebook and Twitter, right before the weekend. Dang, what is he gonna do now, start a Yahoo Group?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:31 PM on January 8, 2021 [33 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:31 PM on January 8, 2021 [33 favorites]
Hopefully it makes him use the normal methods of Presidential communication, which the old media empires seem to know how to cover, instead of just drooling to amplify each ridiculous tweet he fired off.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 3:32 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 3:32 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
I assume he'll just use POTUS for the time being, or Dan Scavino's, or anyone else's, but for one brief, shining moment of spite.... yay.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:33 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:33 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
would it be legal for Twitter to bribe him to resign in exchange for an unban
posted by BungaDunga at 3:33 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by BungaDunga at 3:33 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
"Rudy Giuliani had been gaining Twitter followers every day the past two weeks until today when he lost over 8,700 so far due to Twitter's purge of QAnon accounts." -- Yashar Ali
posted by valkane at 3:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [30 favorites]
posted by valkane at 3:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [30 favorites]
He still has a myspace account https://myspace.com/donaldtrump
posted by Lanark at 3:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Lanark at 3:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
Oh well, guess I'll have to just follow him on Google Reader. Wait, what? Nnnnnooooo
posted by sainttoad at 3:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
posted by sainttoad at 3:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
Come on, nobody’s started a Yahoo group since 1877.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 3:36 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 3:36 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Maybe Tiktok will have him.
posted by SometimeNextMonth at 3:36 PM on January 8, 2021
posted by SometimeNextMonth at 3:36 PM on January 8, 2021
"Guess I don’t need to unfollow Trump" -- Preet Bharara
posted by valkane at 3:36 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by valkane at 3:36 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
RIP the Trump Twitter Archive. The only way to safely view his tweets.
posted by pjenks at 3:37 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by pjenks at 3:37 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
dear abby, i have swallowed some tainted cheeseburger and need to ragebarf . but my usual remedy has been recently removed wat to do yours america
posted by lalochezia at 3:37 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 3:37 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
Maybe Tiktok will have him.
Impossible, come on, you've seen how he dances
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:37 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
Impossible, come on, you've seen how he dances
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:37 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
If he took to MySpace, that would be a real digital Total Landscaping moment.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [28 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [28 favorites]
Just pausing a moment to reflect on the significance of this:
The President of the United States of America has been banned from multiple social media platforms for repeatedly using the platforms to spread disinformation, foment civil unrest, and incite violent insurrection against the United States government.
posted by darkstar at 3:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [178 favorites]
The President of the United States of America has been banned from multiple social media platforms for repeatedly using the platforms to spread disinformation, foment civil unrest, and incite violent insurrection against the United States government.
posted by darkstar at 3:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [178 favorites]
They've made a decision and removed Qanon related ones too.
Flynn, Powell, etc.
posted by MattWPBS at 3:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [45 favorites]
Flynn, Powell, etc.
posted by MattWPBS at 3:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [45 favorites]
Has Fox News committed to stop fellating him? /s (I know the answer)
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 3:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 3:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Is he on parler?
posted by WeekendJen at 3:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by WeekendJen at 3:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Expect to hear a lot more Republicans complaining about Big Tech in the very near future (though, oddly enough, all the right-wing radio guys I hate-listen to have no problem with telling people to buy things at Amazon, use their Alexa to tune to the station, etc.).
posted by box at 3:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by box at 3:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
He's not on Linked In--maybe that's his new platform
posted by Morpeth at 3:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Morpeth at 3:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
He still has a myspace account https://myspace.com/donaldtrump
Is he on friendster?
posted by MrGuilt at 3:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
Is he on friendster?
posted by MrGuilt at 3:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
inb4 teh snowflakegrupppen's "oh no memory-hole 1984 orwellian commies socialists libruls mah freedoms"
posted by lalochezia at 3:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 3:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yes, he opened an account on January 6.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 3:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 3:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Although I will happily accept both, neither the potential Murkowski defection nor Twitter's ban of Trump's account merits praise, merely a "well about fucking time."
posted by PhineasGage at 3:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [16 favorites]
posted by PhineasGage at 3:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [16 favorites]
I wonder if he is starting a new account as we megathread?
posted by albion moonlight at 3:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by albion moonlight at 3:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Expect to hear a lot more Republicans complaining about Big Tech in the very near future
I mean, if they want to sponsor legislation to rein in social media, I’m not against it.
posted by leotrotsky at 3:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
I mean, if they want to sponsor legislation to rein in social media, I’m not against it.
posted by leotrotsky at 3:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Look I don't know about anyone else but hearing he got banned from twitter gave me one of my biggest belly laughs in a while. I know everything is serious and horrible but, please, friends, make sure to enjoy this.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 3:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [52 favorites]
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 3:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [52 favorites]
Maybe Diaryland? Used it quite a while before realizing it wasn't Dairyland...
posted by maniabug at 3:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by maniabug at 3:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
"Welcome to my Twitch stream, today we're playing solitaire, a tremendous game that everyone tells me I am the best at"
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [41 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [41 favorites]
Imagine the world we'd live in if they'd banned him for birtherism a decade ago.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:42 PM on January 8, 2021 [73 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:42 PM on January 8, 2021 [73 favorites]
i bet there are some sternly worded pleas for last minute grift-cash appeals to common decency being put together by for trumpPACs email lists mark my words
posted by lalochezia at 3:42 PM on January 8, 2021
posted by lalochezia at 3:42 PM on January 8, 2021
Perma'd from Facebook and Twitter, right before the weekend. Dang, what is he gonna do now, start a Yahoo Group?
Obviously this.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Obviously this.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
All that’s left is to pardon himself, his family, and all the rioters and then resign by Monday.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Going To Maine at 3:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
"Whew ok he’s gone, let’s GOSSIP. Did you even like that guy??" -- Bill Corbett
posted by valkane at 3:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
posted by valkane at 3:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
"Welcome to my Twitch stream, today we're playing solitaire, a tremendous game that everyone tells me I am the best at"
Twitch disables Trump’s account indefinitely
posted by Pendragon at 3:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [42 favorites]
Twitch disables Trump’s account indefinitely
posted by Pendragon at 3:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [42 favorites]
I can't help remember that even Zod escaped the Phantom Zone.
Impeach!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 3:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
Impeach!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 3:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
Is there a way to brand anyone who proxy tweets for Trump as "the Mouth of Sauron?"
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 3:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 3:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
Friendster and MySpace also ban President Trump following yesterday's failed coup
I can't even tell what's real any more.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [76 favorites]
I can't even tell what's real any more.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [76 favorites]
Man, these threads would be a whole lot shorter if more people used Preview and scrolled up a comment or two before posting. How many times does one need to read the same thing twice, thrice, ad infinitum?
posted by y2karl at 3:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 3:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
Daniel Dale responds to the apparently permanent Trump Twitter ban: !!!
But hey, Cameo will still let Gavin McInnes fash out and make money on their platform.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
But hey, Cameo will still let Gavin McInnes fash out and make money on their platform.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Tumblr, perhaps? He’s only about as bad as dd/lg
posted by Countess Elena at 3:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Countess Elena at 3:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Trending topics are stupid and harmful, but THANK YOU TWITTER is trending, and that’s at least correct.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 3:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
Reddit have also removed the 'sane' Trump subreddit.
posted by MattWPBS at 3:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by MattWPBS at 3:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
Insider News
@insidernews
New footage shows what it was like inside the Trump mob at the Capitol
This is really disturbing. The terrorists walk right past the Capital Police to enter the Capital Building....
posted by bluesky43 at 3:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
@insidernews
New footage shows what it was like inside the Trump mob at the Capitol
This is really disturbing. The terrorists walk right past the Capital Police to enter the Capital Building....
posted by bluesky43 at 3:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
More good (as in "WTF why only now?!" good) news:
UPDATE: The Proud Boys have been banned from @stripe.posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 3:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [36 favorites]
Thank you to everyone who reached out. You made this happen. I’m the face of corporate indifference, you showed them the power of a community.
❤️🖤✊
For the record, the vast majority of Republican Senators did not vote to sustain the objections and less than a majority of Republican House members did as well. Many of them said some odious shit on the way to doing the right thing in some small way, but it weren't no majority in either chamber.
Sorry to inform you but your "record" is incorrect.
139 House Republican members voted to sustain the objections which is two-thirds of Republicans in the House. That's right 66% of House Republicans voted for the coup.
posted by JackFlash at 3:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [46 favorites]
Sorry to inform you but your "record" is incorrect.
139 House Republican members voted to sustain the objections which is two-thirds of Republicans in the House. That's right 66% of House Republicans voted for the coup.
posted by JackFlash at 3:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [46 favorites]
I see that Donald Trump Jr isn’t banned yet....
posted by interogative mood at 3:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 3:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
I feel like this month is turning into ‘a very special episode’ of “The West Wing” ...
posted by New Frontier at 3:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by New Frontier at 3:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
I have to imagine he’s feeling increasingly isolated right about now.
posted by notoriety public at 3:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [54 favorites]
posted by notoriety public at 3:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [54 favorites]
Have we finally reached: SURELY THIS??
posted by scottatdrake at 3:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [26 favorites]
posted by scottatdrake at 3:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [26 favorites]
The President of the United States of America has been banned from multiple social media platforms for repeatedly using the platforms to spread disinformation, foment civil unrest, and incite violent insurrection against the United States government.
He still has nuclear weapons. Please, for the love of God, do not let him use them.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
He still has nuclear weapons. Please, for the love of God, do not let him use them.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
I have to imagine he’s feeling increasingly isolated right about now.
I saw "increasingly isolated" in two separate media pieces yesterday and I practically screamed. I thought Maggie H had used up the entire lifetime quota of that phrase all the way back in 2017.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
I saw "increasingly isolated" in two separate media pieces yesterday and I practically screamed. I thought Maggie H had used up the entire lifetime quota of that phrase all the way back in 2017.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
Incidentally, the @POTUS account is still up and working fine. Its most recent activity appears to have been retweet of an @WhiteHouse tweet on December 23 about the lighting of the National Christmas Tree. The obvious next move is for the President to move to that account.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Going To Maine at 3:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Jokes aside, this is fully in keeping with my belief in deplatforming. While its damn near impossible to deplatform Trump completely, just these accounts gone from FB and Twitter has already diminished the noise from his gaping maw by a significant degree. For lesser actors like the PB, more so. I mean it's not the only tool in fighting fascism but it does do some damage.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [34 favorites]
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [34 favorites]
He still has nuclear weapons. Please, for the love of God, do not let him use them.
At this point, that would be like him walking over to a cameraman on The Apprentice and telling him to shoot everyone in the limo. No one is going to allow Donald Trump to launch a nuke.
posted by valkane at 3:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
At this point, that would be like him walking over to a cameraman on The Apprentice and telling him to shoot everyone in the limo. No one is going to allow Donald Trump to launch a nuke.
posted by valkane at 3:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
It is with gravity and careful consideration that I say
posted by cortex at 3:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [315 favorites]
posted by cortex at 3:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [315 favorites]
I mean, LiveJournal is still really big in Russia...
All joking aside, Trump being removed from Twitter is extremely welcome news. The hour is unbelievably late, but I'm glad, nonetheless.
posted by merriment at 3:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
All joking aside, Trump being removed from Twitter is extremely welcome news. The hour is unbelievably late, but I'm glad, nonetheless.
posted by merriment at 3:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
Lisa Murkowski says Trump should resign and if the Republicans don’t do something she’s not sure she can be one anymore.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 4:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Big Al 8000 at 4:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
You love to see it.
posted by SansPoint at 4:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 4:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Hmm, seems like we all should get image tags back, for reasons for fairness.
posted by sideshow at 4:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by sideshow at 4:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
if only for about 144 seconds
posted by philip-random at 4:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 4:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Never has social media censorship been so clearly right thing to do and yet so likely to precipitate a nuclear launch
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
LiveJournal, surely.
posted by acb at 4:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by acb at 4:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Honestly the best thing about the Twitter ban is that it's a huge blow to his perceived power, which does affect his actual ability to exercise power.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 4:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
If the bombs are flying, pls to temporarily re-enable the img tag.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
No one is going to allow Donald Trump to launch a nuke.
I really hope that's true, but I can't believe it unless someone actually steps up (at the risk of their own life?) and stops him.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:04 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
I really hope that's true, but I can't believe it unless someone actually steps up (at the risk of their own life?) and stops him.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:04 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
The other 25th Amendment option: Democratic momentum builds for potential fast-track impeachment next week includes this:
So far it's looking like a single charge of incitement of insurrection: House Democrats' draft of a new article of impeachment.
(I never used to follow CNN at all before this week. Suddenly I'm finding that's where I can get decent, succinct updates.)
posted by kristi at 4:05 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
She said the House would "preserve every option," including legislation to establish a commission under the 25th Amendment that could recommend Trump's removal in addition to impeachment.So impeachment could start Monday, but they're ALSO looking at a way for Congress to invoke the 25th, which would solve the problem of Pence refusing. And depending on what that option involves (I have no expertise on the 25th Amendment), it might also solve the problem of the 2/3s of the Senate needed to remove from office.
"It is the hope of Members that the President will immediately resign. But if he does not, I have instructed the Rules Committee to be prepared to move forward with Congressman Jamie Raskin's 25th Amendment legislation and a motion for impeachment," Pelosi said. "Accordingly, the House will preserve every option -- including the 25th Amendment, a motion to impeach or a privileged resolution for impeachment."
House Democrats plan to introduce their impeachment resolution on Monday, when the House next comes into session.
So far it's looking like a single charge of incitement of insurrection: House Democrats' draft of a new article of impeachment.
(I never used to follow CNN at all before this week. Suddenly I'm finding that's where I can get decent, succinct updates.)
posted by kristi at 4:05 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
Mod note: Hey now, we don't use img tags at metafil-- wait, what? Oh, um, carry on. Great GIF. Love it.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 4:05 PM on January 8, 2021 [39 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 4:05 PM on January 8, 2021 [39 favorites]
If we’re going to compare now to the West Wing can we do the episode where Leo MacGarry gives orders to the military for two hours because I still have concerns over what doors were opened Wednesday.
End result is good but that will not always be the case.
posted by Slackermagee at 4:05 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
End result is good but that will not always be the case.
posted by Slackermagee at 4:05 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
I’m glad to be with you, MetaFilter; here at the end of dumb tweets
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:06 PM on January 8, 2021 [58 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:06 PM on January 8, 2021 [58 favorites]
Apple gives Parler 24 hours to institute moderation or get kicked from the app store.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:07 PM on January 8, 2021 [53 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:07 PM on January 8, 2021 [53 favorites]
He still has nuclear weapons. Please, for the love of God, do not let him use them.
The process of the US President ordering a nuclear strike is a lot more involved than pushing a button. He'd need to connect to a secure switchboard, organise a conference call, read the correct reply to an authentication code from a card (not sure how that compares to the cognitive test he allegedly “aced”) and either select a plan from a binder of existing nuclear strike plans (which, I understand, have not been converted to picture-book form for Presidents who don't like to read) or give the military time to draft a new one to his request, at each step of the way there is more potential for someone to say “hang on, we shouldn't be nuking Ottawa” or whatever and to pull the plug on the mad king.
posted by acb at 4:08 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
The process of the US President ordering a nuclear strike is a lot more involved than pushing a button. He'd need to connect to a secure switchboard, organise a conference call, read the correct reply to an authentication code from a card (not sure how that compares to the cognitive test he allegedly “aced”) and either select a plan from a binder of existing nuclear strike plans (which, I understand, have not been converted to picture-book form for Presidents who don't like to read) or give the military time to draft a new one to his request, at each step of the way there is more potential for someone to say “hang on, we shouldn't be nuking Ottawa” or whatever and to pull the plug on the mad king.
posted by acb at 4:08 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
Is this where we gather in the forest with fire and sing Yub Nub?
posted by sektah at 4:09 PM on January 8, 2021 [43 favorites]
posted by sektah at 4:09 PM on January 8, 2021 [43 favorites]
You best start believing in walled gardens, Parler. You're in one.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:09 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:09 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
No Yub Nub until we have a new president.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [23 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [23 favorites]
Not yet, we still have to (metaphorically) blow up Trump Tower.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 4:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Big Al 8000 at 4:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Trump killing Gab and Parler via huge AWS bills will be amazing.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 4:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 4:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
Yub Nub is reserved for Inauguration Day.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
I'm sorry I prematurely posted a Yub Nub after the election
posted by jason_steakums at 4:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 4:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
Truly, there is No Tweet for Anything
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
so wait. If Pence doesn't want to invoke the 25th because he's too much of a fucking coward to either deal with the backlash (and, I think, genuinely terrified of being President?), then who is President if Congress invokes? Still Pence? Or Pelosi?
posted by schadenfrau at 4:11 PM on January 8, 2021
posted by schadenfrau at 4:11 PM on January 8, 2021
So I told my wife, and she's like "cortex put an image in your thread?" and I'm like "Yeah, but it really has nothing to do with me" and she's like "Hmmph, well it should!"
posted by valkane at 4:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by valkane at 4:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
Election Yub Nub forgiven. I also sang along.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
He'd need to connect to a secure switchboard, organize a conference call, read the correct reply to an authentication code from a card
Oh shit. Who knew? The authentication code is:
Person
Woman
Man
Camera
TV
posted by JackFlash at 4:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [36 favorites]
Oh shit. Who knew? The authentication code is:
Person
Woman
Man
Camera
TV
posted by JackFlash at 4:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [36 favorites]
schadenfrau: Congress can't unilaterally invoke the 25th Amendment. They can instead impeach and convict.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
The obvious next move is for the President to move to @POTUS
You can’t circumvent a Twitter suspension, enforcement action, or anti-spam challenge.
This includes any behavior intended to evade any Twitter remediation, such as creating a new account or repurposing an already-existing account. - Twitter help
posted by Lanark at 4:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
You can’t circumvent a Twitter suspension, enforcement action, or anti-spam challenge.
This includes any behavior intended to evade any Twitter remediation, such as creating a new account or repurposing an already-existing account. - Twitter help
posted by Lanark at 4:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
I'm looking forward to Trump joining LiveJournal. I mean, it is owned by the Russians.
posted by SansPoint at 4:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 4:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Mod note: i apologize for anyone seeing a broken image on Chrome, in the future I will look into making my once-a-year image tag shitpost with a locally hosted file so there's no ssl friction when i abuse my power
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [149 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [149 favorites]
Sanspoint, which “it” is owned by the Russians?
Kidding, they both are!
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
Kidding, they both are!
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
There's a tweet interview for everything
But after his election in 2016, Trump told 60 Minutes correspondent Lesley Stahl, that as president he would use the platform differently.
"I'm going to do very restrained, if I use it at all, I'm going to do very restrained," Trump said. "I find it tremendous. It's a modern form of communication."
posted by lalochezia at 4:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
But after his election in 2016, Trump told 60 Minutes correspondent Lesley Stahl, that as president he would use the platform differently.
"I'm going to do very restrained, if I use it at all, I'm going to do very restrained," Trump said. "I find it tremendous. It's a modern form of communication."
posted by lalochezia at 4:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
If Trump comes to livejournal he will be absolutely savaged by the Oh No They Didn’t community. End ha!
posted by supercrayon at 4:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 4:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
(cortex, my wife just laughed her ass off over your mod note.)
posted by valkane at 4:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by valkane at 4:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
It's so wonderful. Except that I really want to watch the twitter meltdown that he'd be having in response to being banned from Twitter.
Plus some as-yet-not-coherently formed thoughts about how the role of the US President is so seemingly, frighteningly, dysfunctionally untouchable... I was gobsmacked when I discovered how much immunity serving Presidents have from prosecution and that seems to trickle down to so many other things: Like the fact Twitter refused to ban him for most of his term because they claimed it was in the public interest to keep his tweets visible, even when they contravened their own rules. They only do it now he's finally on his way out and it's obvious the tide is turned. The way so much of the media stepped back from calling him out on so many things, until he lost the election and then suddenly - poof! - spell broken and it was like they suddenly felt able to point out the Emperor was stark bollock naked. Like I said, my thoughts are incoherent and I've no idea how much of that is constitutional, or inherent respect for the role regardless of who holds it, or a kind of collective madness, or fear.
posted by penguin pie at 4:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
Plus some as-yet-not-coherently formed thoughts about how the role of the US President is so seemingly, frighteningly, dysfunctionally untouchable... I was gobsmacked when I discovered how much immunity serving Presidents have from prosecution and that seems to trickle down to so many other things: Like the fact Twitter refused to ban him for most of his term because they claimed it was in the public interest to keep his tweets visible, even when they contravened their own rules. They only do it now he's finally on his way out and it's obvious the tide is turned. The way so much of the media stepped back from calling him out on so many things, until he lost the election and then suddenly - poof! - spell broken and it was like they suddenly felt able to point out the Emperor was stark bollock naked. Like I said, my thoughts are incoherent and I've no idea how much of that is constitutional, or inherent respect for the role regardless of who holds it, or a kind of collective madness, or fear.
posted by penguin pie at 4:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
*sentimental montage of screenshots of Trump’s tweets set to “I Will Remember You”*
posted by brundlefly at 4:17 PM on January 8, 2021 [27 favorites]
posted by brundlefly at 4:17 PM on January 8, 2021 [27 favorites]
If Pence doesn't want to invoke the 25th because he's too much of a fucking coward to either deal with the backlash (and, I think, genuinely terrified of being President?), then who is President if Congress invokes?
Congress doesn't have the power to initiate the process as described in the 25th Amendment. Censure or Impeachment are Congress's remedy.
posted by tclark at 4:17 PM on January 8, 2021
Congress doesn't have the power to initiate the process as described in the 25th Amendment. Censure or Impeachment are Congress's remedy.
posted by tclark at 4:17 PM on January 8, 2021
It looks like @POTUS has been purged. I'm not seeing any tweets there.
posted by SansPoint at 4:17 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 4:17 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
y trump like russia?
insoviet russia, law ALWAYS protect YOU
posted by lalochezia at 4:18 PM on January 8, 2021
in
posted by lalochezia at 4:18 PM on January 8, 2021
I submit it's possible to believe these folks had absolutely horrible intentions and were racist (either overtly or by casting a blind eye), but had absolutely zero plan.
They had zero plan, but they did have a goal: Revolution.
It’s pretty clear there was magical thinking involved — that seizing the physical plant of government was equivalent to seizing the government, as if the levers of power were tangible objects. I’d say they thought they were storming the Bastille, but I can’t imagine their collective knowledge of history extends beyond Ancient Aliens, so it was probably more like winning capture the flag.
This is important because they didn’t just trespass for a sit-in, or to vent, or “be heard”. They trespassed to seize the government, which is sedition.
posted by Toecutter at 4:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
They had zero plan, but they did have a goal: Revolution.
It’s pretty clear there was magical thinking involved — that seizing the physical plant of government was equivalent to seizing the government, as if the levers of power were tangible objects. I’d say they thought they were storming the Bastille, but I can’t imagine their collective knowledge of history extends beyond Ancient Aliens, so it was probably more like winning capture the flag.
This is important because they didn’t just trespass for a sit-in, or to vent, or “be heard”. They trespassed to seize the government, which is sedition.
posted by Toecutter at 4:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
Don Junior going apocalyptic about his father’s Twitter deletion. There literally isn’t enough popcorn in the world right now.....
posted by inflatablekiwi at 4:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [24 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 4:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [24 favorites]
East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 , that was my understanding, too, but there's a post above with a statement from Pelosi that talks about Rep Raskin's bill that would open up a Congressional committee (or something?) under the 25th.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:19 PM on January 8, 2021
posted by schadenfrau at 4:19 PM on January 8, 2021
I Have No Clout, and I Must Tweet
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [39 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [39 favorites]
*sentimental montage of screenshots of Trump’s tweets set to “I Will Remember You”*
Sad!
posted by saturday_morning at 4:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Sad!
posted by saturday_morning at 4:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
A couple of hours ago, Elie Mystal, who often appears on MSNBC, had a similar reaction as me, of utter disbelief over that video of the mob where the woman got shot and killed. Among the tweets in his thread:
I can't get over this video, you guys. I can't even express the *depths* of racism in a society that allows one group of people to punch the window out behind the ear of a cop, but allows other cops to shoot an unarmed black man in the back 7 times.posted by cashman at 4:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [126 favorites]
I just can't.
...
one America where the cops *walk away* from an armed mob of white people threatening government officials, and another one where they shoot unarmed Black children to death, IS UNACCEPTABLE.
I don't want "unity" or "healing" or "comity." I WANT JUSTICE. I WANT FAIRNESS.
Point of order!
Case law has shown Yub Nub drums, chanting, hooting, and some whistling is allowable early if it is "not indecorous". The full-throated choir and orchestra must of course be reserved for the inauguration.
posted by Celsius1414 at 4:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
Case law has shown Yub Nub drums, chanting, hooting, and some whistling is allowable early if it is "not indecorous". The full-throated choir and orchestra must of course be reserved for the inauguration.
posted by Celsius1414 at 4:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
It looks like @POTUS has been purged. I'm not seeing any tweets there.
I'm seeing plenty - scroll down, lots of RTs of @WhiteHouse tweets.
posted by penguin pie at 4:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm seeing plenty - scroll down, lots of RTs of @WhiteHouse tweets.
posted by penguin pie at 4:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Congress doesn't have the power to initiate the process as described in the 25th Amendment. Censure or Impeachment are Congress's remedy.
It depends on if you think Pence is holding off because he's a coward or because he doesn't see a point in invoking the 25th without having the majority of the cabinet on board. Creating an alternative commission is a way to bypass the cabinet in the latter scenario.
posted by bassooner at 4:20 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
It depends on if you think Pence is holding off because he's a coward or because he doesn't see a point in invoking the 25th without having the majority of the cabinet on board. Creating an alternative commission is a way to bypass the cabinet in the latter scenario.
posted by bassooner at 4:20 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Don Jr goes apocalyptic about everything.
posted by SoberHighland at 4:20 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by SoberHighland at 4:20 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
The official Twitter blogpost is actually really scary:
This determination is based on a number of factors, including:posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 4:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [84 favorites]*President Trump’s statement that he will not be attending the Inauguration is being received by a number of his supporters as further confirmation that the election was not legitimate and is seen as him disavowing his previous claim made via two Tweets (1, 2) by his Deputy Chief of Staff, Dan Scavino, that there would be an “orderly transition” on January 20th.As such, our determination is that the two Tweets above are likely to inspire others to replicate the violent acts that took place on January 6, 2021, and that there are multiple indicators that they are being received and understood as encouragement to do so.
*The second Tweet may also serve as encouragement to those potentially considering violent acts that the Inauguration would be a “safe” target, as he will not be attending.
* The use of the words “American Patriots” to describe some of his supporters is also being interpreted as support for those committing violent acts at the US Capitol.
*The mention of his supporters having a “GIANT VOICE long into the future” and that “They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!” is being interpreted as further indication that President Trump does not plan to facilitate an “orderly transition” and instead that he plans to continue to support, empower, and shield those who believe he won the election.
*Plans for future armed protests have already begun proliferating on and off-Twitter, including a proposed secondary attack on the US Capitol and state capitol buildings on January 17, 2021
Or then again, they coulda just said "He's a piece of shit, and we don't want him as a customer."
posted by valkane at 4:23 PM on January 8, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by valkane at 4:23 PM on January 8, 2021 [20 favorites]
The really fun part is going to be when he bounces from account to account getting his entire family banned.
"...and nothing of value was lost."
posted by tonycpsu at 4:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
"...and nothing of value was lost."
posted by tonycpsu at 4:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
It’s pretty clear there was magical thinking involved — that seizing the physical plant of government was equivalent to seizing the government, as if the levers of power were tangible objects. I’d say they thought they were storming the Bastille, but I can’t imagine their collective knowledge of history extends beyond Ancient Aliens, so it was probably more like winning capture the flag.
That ties in with the idea that his 2016 victory was engineered by chaos magick involving Pepe memes and such, as documented in books like Dark Star Rising.
posted by acb at 4:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
That ties in with the idea that his 2016 victory was engineered by chaos magick involving Pepe memes and such, as documented in books like Dark Star Rising.
posted by acb at 4:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
I wanted to see Junior imploding so I went to go look up his twitter, which I've never done. The google autocomplete suggestion was "donald trump twitter junior"
posted by phunniemee at 4:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 4:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
Getting his entire family banned from the United States is what I’m hoping for.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [23 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [23 favorites]
So, penalties for acts of terrorism against the USA range from being hunted down across the world and killed to having all social media accounts suspended, based on a sliding scale of melanin and net worth.
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 4:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [53 favorites]
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 4:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [53 favorites]
This is Just to Say
I have banned
the orange
that was on
the twitter
and which
you were probably
hoping
to impeach
Forgive me
he was odious
a nazi
and a loser
posted by Behemoth, in no. 302-bis, with the Browning at 4:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [96 favorites]
I have banned
the orange
that was on
the twitter
and which
you were probably
hoping
to impeach
Forgive me
he was odious
a nazi
and a loser
posted by Behemoth, in no. 302-bis, with the Browning at 4:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [96 favorites]
The President of the United States of America has been banned from multiple social media platforms for repeatedly using the platforms to spread disinformation, foment civil unrest, and incite violent insurrection against the United States government.
At the rate he’s going, the only site to which he’ll be able to post his ravings is kijiji.
kijesus ...
posted by New Frontier at 4:26 PM on January 8, 2021
At the rate he’s going, the only site to which he’ll be able to post his ravings is kijiji.
kijesus ...
posted by New Frontier at 4:26 PM on January 8, 2021
I thought his plan was to go to the inauguration in disguise and then at the right moment push Joe out of the way, grab the bible and be sworn in. And then he'd be president again!
Just go in there and grab Joe's swearing in.
It makes no less sense than anything else he's done.
posted by Grangousier at 4:27 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
Just go in there and grab Joe's swearing in.
It makes no less sense than anything else he's done.
posted by Grangousier at 4:27 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
Congress can't unilaterally invoke the 25th Amendment.
Regarding the 25th I think they'll be stretching this part:
or of such other body as Congress may by law provide,
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
posted by yyz at 4:27 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
Regarding the 25th I think they'll be stretching this part:
or of such other body as Congress may by law provide,
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
posted by yyz at 4:27 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
The sound of all the rats running off the sinking ship (that they helped launch, steer, etc) is creating a minor sonic boom heard all the way down here in Chile. Must be deafening around D.C.
posted by signal at 4:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by signal at 4:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
or of such other body as Congress may by law provide
Doesn't this imply having to pass a law? one that can be filibustered in the senate, and would be subject to veto by the president?
posted by saturday_morning at 4:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Doesn't this imply having to pass a law? one that can be filibustered in the senate, and would be subject to veto by the president?
posted by saturday_morning at 4:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
One good thing about Trump not being reelected, at least he’ll never have to touch a Bible again.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
Yeah, but they can’t pass a law without going through the President. (Congress has never previously established “such other body”).
posted by Huffy Puffy at 4:30 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 4:30 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
@banalplay:: Thread of Trump bangers. Post screenshots of your favs to preserve
posted by Going To Maine at 4:31 PM on January 8, 2021
posted by Going To Maine at 4:31 PM on January 8, 2021
It depends on if you think Pence is holding off because he's a coward or because he doesn't see a point in invoking the 25th without having the majority of the cabinet on board. Creating an alternative commission is a way to bypass the cabinet in the latter scenario.
Outside of wonkish circles (like here), it's hard to say something like this without getting shouted down for "making excuses" or "being naive", but, well, yeah. Is Pence likely a coward who's somehow okay with letting his boss off the hook for trying to have him assassinated? I'm leaning there, but it's just as possible that he's a smart coward who's either aiming for an alternative commission who'll slam dunk the 25th or wants as many Cabinet members as possible to resign before seeking a majority vote.
But now I need to put back on my "regular person" hat and act as though the Constitution doesn't have any relevance.
posted by blerghamot at 4:31 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Outside of wonkish circles (like here), it's hard to say something like this without getting shouted down for "making excuses" or "being naive", but, well, yeah. Is Pence likely a coward who's somehow okay with letting his boss off the hook for trying to have him assassinated? I'm leaning there, but it's just as possible that he's a smart coward who's either aiming for an alternative commission who'll slam dunk the 25th or wants as many Cabinet members as possible to resign before seeking a majority vote.
But now I need to put back on my "regular person" hat and act as though the Constitution doesn't have any relevance.
posted by blerghamot at 4:31 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
"Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Reddit, and YouTube took more action against Trump and held him accountable in just 24 hours than the @GOP has in 4.5 years." -- Trinity
posted by valkane at 4:32 PM on January 8, 2021 [95 favorites]
posted by valkane at 4:32 PM on January 8, 2021 [95 favorites]
Have LinkedIn said anything about banning Trump?
posted by SansPoint at 4:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 4:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
I’ve not heard of “Republicans for the Rule of Law” until now but they apparently have the same pro commercial producers on tap as The Lincoln Project. This effort deftly cuts between Trump’s January 6 speech and rioters on the grounds of Congress affirming their intentions for the camera: The President Did This.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
The google autocomplete suggestion was "donald trump twitter junior"
I propose that this be his name henceforth.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
I propose that this be his name henceforth.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Re:LinkedIn Oh no, I want to see people linked to Donnie when hiring.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:35 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:35 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
The sound of all the rats running off the sinking ship (that they helped launch, steer, etc) is creating a minor sonic boom heard all the way down here in Chile.
The last time these guys ran the ratlines, most of them ended up in Argentina. I don't think the government will be as welcoming this time around.
posted by JackFlash at 4:35 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
The last time these guys ran the ratlines, most of them ended up in Argentina. I don't think the government will be as welcoming this time around.
posted by JackFlash at 4:35 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
If he took to MySpace, that would be a real digital Total Landscaping moment.you can imagine Rudy rallying all the troops to join him and the President at myspace.ac
posted by Sauce Trough at 4:36 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
Thanks, Twitter, Facebook and all the other tech companies and VCs out there today taking a courageous, principled stand at precisely the moment it costs you nothing to do, requires zero courage and is far too late to change anything.
posted by mhoye at 4:36 PM on January 8, 2021 [115 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 4:36 PM on January 8, 2021 [115 favorites]
Have LinkedIn said anything about banning Trump?
A couple of days ago Twitch banned Trump and I was legitimately confused. What the hell does Trump do on Twitch?
I asked my 13 year-old son and he barely looked up from his game to say, "Orange is sus".
posted by The Bellman at 4:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [130 favorites]
A couple of days ago Twitch banned Trump and I was legitimately confused. What the hell does Trump do on Twitch?
I asked my 13 year-old son and he barely looked up from his game to say, "Orange is sus".
posted by The Bellman at 4:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [130 favorites]
Every time I look at something coming off his twitter.
#lol
posted by popcassady at 4:40 PM on January 8, 2021
#lol
posted by popcassady at 4:40 PM on January 8, 2021
Is he on LibraryThing though?
posted by jquinby at 4:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by jquinby at 4:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
“Sus” being shorthand for Suspicious in the game Among Us.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
That ties in with the idea that his 2016 victory was engineered by chaos magick involving Pepe memes and such, as documented in books like Dark Star Rising.
There are people on the left who viewed 2016 in much the same light; e.g., Elizabeth Sandifer (though I haven't followed her in a while).
posted by nosewings at 4:42 PM on January 8, 2021
There are people on the left who viewed 2016 in much the same light; e.g., Elizabeth Sandifer (though I haven't followed her in a while).
posted by nosewings at 4:42 PM on January 8, 2021
IANAL, and as such I'm not sure about that last part. Is there in fact no equivalent body that could be convened? I don't imagine such a body necessarily has to be explicitly derived from the "Creation of Alternative Congressional Body to Ascertain Use of the 25th Amendment Act of 1973". Could there be other umbrellas of legislative convening that could cover such a case? Something equivalent to duties of the House Judiciary Committee?or of such other body as Congress may by law provideYeah, but they can’t pass a law without going through the President. (Congress has never previously established “such other body”).
posted by Brak at 4:43 PM on January 8, 2021
Apparently Aleksandr Dugin started out in chaos magick, broadly influenced by Genesis P. Orridge and the like.
posted by acb at 4:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by acb at 4:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
@bellman PogChamp LUL
posted by Elmore at 4:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Elmore at 4:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think this is the episode where Trumpy the Klown escapes to a shack and hijacks the emergency broadcasting system.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Everybody's making defunct social media platform jokes and here I thought I was over them already and then somebody knocked me on my ass with a Xanga reference out of nowhere
posted by jason_steakums at 4:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 4:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
Is he on LibraryThing though?
After his "Simon and Shuster is Orwellian" comments, I'm kinda waiting on Hawley to pop on Goodreads complaining about how Homage to Catalonia contains too many dead fascists.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
After his "Simon and Shuster is Orwellian" comments, I'm kinda waiting on Hawley to pop on Goodreads complaining about how Homage to Catalonia contains too many dead fascists.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
Everybody's making defunct social media platform jokes and here I thought I was over them already and then somebody knocked me on my ass with a Xanga reference out of nowhere
Gonna be the hot new thing on ICQ.
posted by mhoye at 4:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
Gonna be the hot new thing on ICQ.
posted by mhoye at 4:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
"In permanently suspending Trump's account (and his 88.7 Million followers) Twitter has deprived Trump of a major avenue for monetizing the presidency after he leaves office. Those howls of rage you hear coming from the White House are about $$$, not free speech." -- Susan Hennessey
posted by valkane at 4:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [66 favorites]
posted by valkane at 4:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [66 favorites]
Have LinkedIn said anything about banning Trump?
There's always a craigslist Rants and Raves page for him.
posted by jgirl at 4:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Probably, the best analysis I have read about the Riot on the Hill.
posted by - at 4:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by - at 4:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Bannon’s Youtube: shut down. And Pelosi said Trump should be prosecuted. This is starting to look like an avalanche.
posted by holborne at 4:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by holborne at 4:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Gonna be the hot new thing on ICQ.
"uh-oh!"
posted by jason_steakums at 4:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [20 favorites]
"uh-oh!"
posted by jason_steakums at 4:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [20 favorites]
The last time these guys ran the ratlines, most of them ended up in Argentina. I don't think the government will be as welcoming this time around.
The sad irony of the analogy of the Nazi ratlines is that Israel is one of the few countries where Trump is extremely popular.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 4:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
The sad irony of the analogy of the Nazi ratlines is that Israel is one of the few countries where Trump is extremely popular.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 4:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Looking forward to logging on to irc.donaldjtrump.com and getting the latest on alt.politics.donald.j.trump
posted by SansPoint at 4:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 4:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
Apparently Aleksandr Dugin started out in chaos magick, broadly influenced by Genesis P. Orridge and the like.
Really?
posted by albion moonlight at 4:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Really?
posted by albion moonlight at 4:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
The real irony will be when he turns to TikTok.
posted by interogative mood at 4:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 4:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
One good thing about Trump not being reelected, at least he’ll never have to touch a Bible again.
Shouldn't he have burst into flames the previous times? Maybe that's where the orange comes from.
posted by zengargoyle at 4:53 PM on January 8, 2021
Shouldn't he have burst into flames the previous times? Maybe that's where the orange comes from.
posted by zengargoyle at 4:53 PM on January 8, 2021
Or so Gary Lachman claims in Dark Star Rising. (Not sure if he connects Dugin and Orridge directly—it has been a while since I read it—but he cites Orridge as a founder of Chaos Magick in the 70s and Dugin as having come up from that milieu, and through that to provocations such as “National Bolshevism”, a deliberately trollish precursor of his more recent ideology.)
Also, I think Michael Moorcock may have been mentioned.
posted by acb at 4:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Also, I think Michael Moorcock may have been mentioned.
posted by acb at 4:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
"Google has suspended Parler from the Play Store until it better polices its app. Earlier today, Apple gave Parler an ultimatum to improve its moderation in 24 hours or face removal from App Store." -- Jack Nikas
posted by valkane at 4:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [34 favorites]
posted by valkane at 4:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [34 favorites]
I'm shaking. It's literally unthinkable that a group of black people could do anything close to any of that and not have it be an absolutely slaughter
I share your sadness and anger.
My family and friends and I have been discussing how there is no way the air would not have been full of bullets if that had been a group of black people, no matter how few cops were at the barriers.
How do we know this? Because when cops have a single unarmed black person outnumbered, they fire volleys of bullets at him (usually it's a male, but they'll do it to black women too) if he makes any move that could even vaguely be seen as threatening and if he has anything in his hand that they can later claim they thought was a weapon.
Conservatives, moderates and even a heartbreaking number of progressives will then say that you can't blame the cops because they were scared and their lives were in danger and he wasn't obeying commands, of course he's going to get shot.
If it had been a group of black people, I feel the outnumbered police would have been of the "If I'm going to hell, I'm taking some of you with me" or "If we drop a few at the front, maybe the rest will back off" mindset.
And they often won't even set up any kind of barrier or perimeter and give us a chance to de-escalate or explain the situation or make demands(!!!) like they did for these folks, they'll just roll up on us and start shooting (Tamir Rice, John Crawford).
We know they think we have a superhumanly high tolerance for pain. We know they think our children look like adults once they're over the height of 5 feet. We're the poster children for dehumanization.
And so we know for a rock solid fact that be it in the workplace, in the safety of our own homes, if we're "being too loud" in public spaces, when we're dealing with cops etc etc etc, we simply do not get the benefit of the doubt, the opportunities to explain, and the mulligans that Wednesday's terrorists got.
And I think the consequences for the insurrection are, ironically, going to fall most heavily on us going forward. I expect the police to be present in ludicrously larger numbers than they already have been, with all kinds of weapons and tactics at their disposal, for every BLM protest going forward.
posted by lord_wolf at 4:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [143 favorites]
I share your sadness and anger.
My family and friends and I have been discussing how there is no way the air would not have been full of bullets if that had been a group of black people, no matter how few cops were at the barriers.
How do we know this? Because when cops have a single unarmed black person outnumbered, they fire volleys of bullets at him (usually it's a male, but they'll do it to black women too) if he makes any move that could even vaguely be seen as threatening and if he has anything in his hand that they can later claim they thought was a weapon.
Conservatives, moderates and even a heartbreaking number of progressives will then say that you can't blame the cops because they were scared and their lives were in danger and he wasn't obeying commands, of course he's going to get shot.
If it had been a group of black people, I feel the outnumbered police would have been of the "If I'm going to hell, I'm taking some of you with me" or "If we drop a few at the front, maybe the rest will back off" mindset.
And they often won't even set up any kind of barrier or perimeter and give us a chance to de-escalate or explain the situation or make demands(!!!) like they did for these folks, they'll just roll up on us and start shooting (Tamir Rice, John Crawford).
We know they think we have a superhumanly high tolerance for pain. We know they think our children look like adults once they're over the height of 5 feet. We're the poster children for dehumanization.
And so we know for a rock solid fact that be it in the workplace, in the safety of our own homes, if we're "being too loud" in public spaces, when we're dealing with cops etc etc etc, we simply do not get the benefit of the doubt, the opportunities to explain, and the mulligans that Wednesday's terrorists got.
And I think the consequences for the insurrection are, ironically, going to fall most heavily on us going forward. I expect the police to be present in ludicrously larger numbers than they already have been, with all kinds of weapons and tactics at their disposal, for every BLM protest going forward.
posted by lord_wolf at 4:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [143 favorites]
On Monday, they need to pass "Creation of Alternative Congressional Body to Ascertain Right to Use of the 45th President's Twitter Account and 25th Amendment Act of 1973". He would totally sign it.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
Good news, everyone! A pundit on PBS Newshour earlier declared that the Republican Party has been destroyed.
I'm sure it will go down in history with the Confederacy, Nazism, Communism, and the metric system as things that the United States defeated and which will never rear their ugly heads again.
posted by XMLicious at 4:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
I'm sure it will go down in history with the Confederacy, Nazism, Communism, and the metric system as things that the United States defeated and which will never rear their ugly heads again.
posted by XMLicious at 4:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
Trump monetizing the Internet post-term, you say?
Parker Molloy: Trump's going to start an OnlyFans, isn't he
posted by delfin at 4:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
Parker Molloy: Trump's going to start an OnlyFans, isn't he
posted by delfin at 4:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
I mean, I suppose an actual billionaire would have the resources to launch a new social network.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
Oh, don't forget to dust off your Hayes Modem and dial into TrumpBBS! 1-900-DJTRUMP! With support up to 9600 baud!
posted by SansPoint at 4:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 4:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
Onlyfans! $5 a pop to see the pee tape.
posted by mrgoat at 4:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by mrgoat at 4:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
I hope someone has confiscated the White House passenger pigeons.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
Man - between finding out his Twitter’s been deleted AND that he’s been using his dishwasher wrong all these years - Trump must be fucking furious.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 5:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [44 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 5:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [44 favorites]
Prediction. Someone will start collecting funds to create a conservative phone hardware/os/software marketplace. They will pocket most of the funds and release a video featuring a shitty burner with a reskinned android OS. It will never get beyond this stage.
posted by cmfletcher at 5:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [42 favorites]
posted by cmfletcher at 5:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [42 favorites]
Poor Donnie got his twitters cut off.
posted by The Potate at 5:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by The Potate at 5:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
He keeps throwing the Big Mac wrappers in the dishwasher, but they never get clean.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
Parker Molloy: Trump's going to start an OnlyFans, isn't he
computer end simulation and delete program
posted by mhoye at 5:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [61 favorites]
computer end simulation and delete program
posted by mhoye at 5:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [61 favorites]
I mean, I suppose an actual billionaire would have the resources to launch a new social network.
Can you imagine the kinds of devs that would apply for that, though? Like, corporeal engineers' disease in pudgy male Caucasian fleshsacks.
EDIT: just men, obvs.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 5:04 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Can you imagine the kinds of devs that would apply for that, though? Like, corporeal engineers' disease in pudgy male Caucasian fleshsacks.
EDIT: just men, obvs.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 5:04 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Ryan McCarthy on Twitter:
Trump was calling Senators to get them to overturn the election *WHILE* the Capitol was on lockdown and Congress members were hiding from the mob.
Put differently: During a deadly attack on Congress by his supporters (and apparently before members of Congress were truly safe), Trump was still trying to overturn the results of a free and fair election
Senators mentioned in the tweet: Lee of Utah and Tuberville of Alabama
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:06 PM on January 8, 2021 [28 favorites]
Trump was calling Senators to get them to overturn the election *WHILE* the Capitol was on lockdown and Congress members were hiding from the mob.
Put differently: During a deadly attack on Congress by his supporters (and apparently before members of Congress were truly safe), Trump was still trying to overturn the results of a free and fair election
Senators mentioned in the tweet: Lee of Utah and Tuberville of Alabama
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:06 PM on January 8, 2021 [28 favorites]
Now would be a great time for someone to release an "official" Parler APK filled to the brim with spyware, accompanied by instructions on how to sideload the app and root (aka disable all protections) your Android device.
posted by meowzilla at 5:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [16 favorites]
posted by meowzilla at 5:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [16 favorites]
Note: messenger pigeons. Passenger pigeons are extinct. (Unless I was being ironic and was talking about 19th century pre-AOL technology).
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Here's a frightening tnought.
Remember how one morning, a couple of years ago, we all got a test message on our phones from a Presidential Alert messaging system?
[INCOMING MESSAGE]
HELLO THIS IS PRESEDINT FOR LIFE DONALD TRUMP. STOP YELLING AT MY WINDOW. I WILL NEVER LOG OFF
posted by delfin at 5:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [24 favorites]
Remember how one morning, a couple of years ago, we all got a test message on our phones from a Presidential Alert messaging system?
[INCOMING MESSAGE]
HELLO THIS IS PRESEDINT FOR LIFE DONALD TRUMP. STOP YELLING AT MY WINDOW. I WILL NEVER LOG OFF
posted by delfin at 5:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [24 favorites]
I can't get daily users of our computer lab to remember how to print but I can almost guarantee some of them will soon learn how to sideload fuckin Parler like it's no big deal
posted by jason_steakums at 5:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 5:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
Geoff Bennet, @NBCNews, White House Correspondent, currently covering the Biden presidential transition, tweeted:
Wow. Included in Twitter’s statement, explaining why it banned Trump: “Plans for future armed protests have already begun proliferating on and off-Twitter, including a proposed secondary attack on the US Capitol and state capitol buildings on January 17, 2021."
&
Twitter says it won’t suspend @POTUS / @WhiteHouse, “but will take action to limit their use. However, these accounts will be transitioned over to the new administration in due course and will not be suspended by Twitter unless absolutely necessary to alleviate real-world harm.”
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
Wow. Included in Twitter’s statement, explaining why it banned Trump: “Plans for future armed protests have already begun proliferating on and off-Twitter, including a proposed secondary attack on the US Capitol and state capitol buildings on January 17, 2021."
&
Twitter says it won’t suspend @POTUS / @WhiteHouse, “but will take action to limit their use. However, these accounts will be transitioned over to the new administration in due course and will not be suspended by Twitter unless absolutely necessary to alleviate real-world harm.”
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
Dave Brown
@dave_brown24
This is the first time a sitting president has been banned from Twitter going back to 1812
posted by Gorgik at 5:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [70 favorites]
@dave_brown24
This is the first time a sitting president has been banned from Twitter going back to 1812
posted by Gorgik at 5:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [70 favorites]
People are going too far back for the lulz. Dude has never really moved on from the 80's. He's totally going to start messaging everyone with pagers.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:17 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:17 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
Bannon’s Youtube: shut down. And Pelosi said Trump should be prosecuted. This is starting to look like an avalanche.
The big risk with an avalanche: Trump being blamed for all of the violence, poverty, and health problems in America, with the claim that if he's put in prison, we have no more problems.
We've noted for years that he's a symptom, not the cause. A whole lot of people are going to try to ignore that.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [27 favorites]
The big risk with an avalanche: Trump being blamed for all of the violence, poverty, and health problems in America, with the claim that if he's put in prison, we have no more problems.
We've noted for years that he's a symptom, not the cause. A whole lot of people are going to try to ignore that.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [27 favorites]
"Someone will start collecting funds to create a conservative phone hardware/os/software marketplace. They will pocket most of the funds and release a video featuring a shitty burner with a reskinned android OS. It will never get beyond this stage."
I'm intrigued by your ideas and would like to invest all of my BitCoin.
posted by Floydd at 5:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
I'm intrigued by your ideas and would like to invest all of my BitCoin.
posted by Floydd at 5:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
Trump's gonna find it hard to pivot to crypto without being able to shill it on Twitter.
posted by BungaDunga at 5:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by BungaDunga at 5:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
As a non-joke, he could start his own Mastodon instance for mere pennies. Never be censored or punished for any reason because he owns it. Each operating server has its own code of conduct, terms of service, and moderation policies. Accessible from any browser. And given his popularity in some quarters, it could work...
posted by jim in austin at 5:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 5:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
I think it's good that Parler is getting taken down, but I wish it had been done before they coordinated their second attack.
posted by corb at 5:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by corb at 5:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
Zeynep Tufekci - sociologist:
Besides the obvious: Thinking how friends in Sri Lanka had told me how they begged Twitter & Facebook to act on accounts instigating ethnic cleansing but often couldn't even get any response and what a coincidence everyone acts one day after Democrats get a legislative trifecta.
posted by adamvasco at 5:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [73 favorites]
Besides the obvious: Thinking how friends in Sri Lanka had told me how they begged Twitter & Facebook to act on accounts instigating ethnic cleansing but often couldn't even get any response and what a coincidence everyone acts one day after Democrats get a legislative trifecta.
posted by adamvasco at 5:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [73 favorites]
Now seems like a good time to take a few million dollars off of heartbroken cognitive dissonant Trump supporters' hands.
Hold on, let me record and edit a quick crowdfunding video and I'll be right back.
posted by signal at 5:22 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
Hold on, let me record and edit a quick crowdfunding video and I'll be right back.
posted by signal at 5:22 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
The big risk with an avalanche
I get you, but I'd rather have e.g. Trump die of old age in prison and us have an uphill battle to make systemic change than have Trump get off without consequences and us have an uphill battle to make systemic change anyway.
posted by cortex at 5:23 PM on January 8, 2021 [35 favorites]
I get you, but I'd rather have e.g. Trump die of old age in prison and us have an uphill battle to make systemic change than have Trump get off without consequences and us have an uphill battle to make systemic change anyway.
posted by cortex at 5:23 PM on January 8, 2021 [35 favorites]
Let this be a lesson to all politicians who parasitize bandwidth that should rightfully have been used for cat pictures.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 5:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by thatwhichfalls at 5:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
We've noted for years that he's a symptom, not the cause.
He's also a powerful symbol, and social annihilation of that powerful symbol will send an inspiring message to all of the good people left in our country.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 5:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
He's also a powerful symbol, and social annihilation of that powerful symbol will send an inspiring message to all of the good people left in our country.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 5:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
William Turton of Bloomberg believes he ran into (a now unmasked*) zip-tie guy at a hotel.
*I gotta love the irony here - the one time in modern American history people wouldn't take a second look at someone in a mask.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 5:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [23 favorites]
*I gotta love the irony here - the one time in modern American history people wouldn't take a second look at someone in a mask.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 5:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [23 favorites]
I think it's good that Parler is getting taken down
They are just getting booted from the App Stores and will still be accessible to those with the app already or via the web. But yeah, let them slowly die on the vine of no updates or bug fixes for their mobile apps.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 5:25 PM on January 8, 2021
They are just getting booted from the App Stores and will still be accessible to those with the app already or via the web. But yeah, let them slowly die on the vine of no updates or bug fixes for their mobile apps.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 5:25 PM on January 8, 2021
Andy Borowitz earlier today:
The poetic justice of Trump supporters’ objection to masks making them easier to identify and arrest is indescribably sublime.posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [91 favorites]
Having a battle over abstractions is hard. (Metaphorically) kicking the snot out of a once-powerful bully makes that battle easier.
posted by argybarg at 5:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by argybarg at 5:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
They could very easily just update one of the webhooks, allowing legit apps to patch, but breaking existing parler instances.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 5:27 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 5:27 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
I think it's good that Parler is getting taken down, but I wish it had been done before they coordinated their second attack.
In all real seriousness, the last time we were under a terrorist attack of this magnitude, we shut down all plane travel and shut it down hard. Maybe we shut down (in stages) Facebook, Twitter, Parler, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, Zoom, etc. until the threat has cleared? It might be extreme to shut down communication networks to stop the neo-Nazi terrorist threat we are facing, but we can re-enable things once that white supremacist threat has been controlled and we can figure out what the hell is going on.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
In all real seriousness, the last time we were under a terrorist attack of this magnitude, we shut down all plane travel and shut it down hard. Maybe we shut down (in stages) Facebook, Twitter, Parler, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, Zoom, etc. until the threat has cleared? It might be extreme to shut down communication networks to stop the neo-Nazi terrorist threat we are facing, but we can re-enable things once that white supremacist threat has been controlled and we can figure out what the hell is going on.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
All my thumbs up to everyone pointing out that PoC of the United States behaving in any way remotely like the Putschisten^ would result in something similar to 1960 South Africa's Sharpeville massacre.
Except, of course, that the dead would be carrying the same sort of government-issued ID as the Putschisten, ID which is supposed to represent equality under the law derived from the Constitution, which is also supposedly going to be used by the repentant Republicans and the Democrats and the national police to fix all of this stuff, perhaps through litigation appealed up to the court of final appeal in which a serial gang rapist will sit in judgement over the case having been installed by Trump and the Nazis and the same Constitution, rather than Apartheid passbooks.
posted by XMLicious at 5:30 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Except, of course, that the dead would be carrying the same sort of government-issued ID as the Putschisten, ID which is supposed to represent equality under the law derived from the Constitution, which is also supposedly going to be used by the repentant Republicans and the Democrats and the national police to fix all of this stuff, perhaps through litigation appealed up to the court of final appeal in which a serial gang rapist will sit in judgement over the case having been installed by Trump and the Nazis and the same Constitution, rather than Apartheid passbooks.
posted by XMLicious at 5:30 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
I wonder how Trump will feel about having to send a scan of his driver's license to Parler.
posted by clawsoon at 5:30 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 5:30 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
They are just getting booted from the App Stores and will still be accessible to those with the app already
Unless Apple + Google revoke Parler's app signing keys, which would kill existing installs also. (Don't know about Android, but that's certainly within Apple's capabilities on iOS; they were threatening Epic with it on their Game Store showdown.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 5:31 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
Unless Apple + Google revoke Parler's app signing keys, which would kill existing installs also. (Don't know about Android, but that's certainly within Apple's capabilities on iOS; they were threatening Epic with it on their Game Store showdown.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 5:31 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
"For unexplained reasons, the White House did not lower flags to half-staff today in honor of the Capitol Police officer, Brian Sicknick, who died last night from injuries he sustained while on duty responding to the pro-Trump mob. The Capitol did lower flags today." -- Kaitlan Collins
"I think we all know the reason." -- Marc E. Elias
posted by valkane at 5:35 PM on January 8, 2021 [62 favorites]
"I think we all know the reason." -- Marc E. Elias
posted by valkane at 5:35 PM on January 8, 2021 [62 favorites]
As a non-joke, he could start his own Mastodon instance for mere pennies. Never be censored or punished for any reason because he owns it. Each operating server has its own code of conduct, terms of service, and moderation policies. Accessible from any browser. And given his popularity in some quarters, it could work...
Lol. Who would set it up? Barron or Rudy?
posted by leotrotsky at 5:36 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Lol. Who would set it up? Barron or Rudy?
posted by leotrotsky at 5:36 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
The internal struggle must be intense right now for potential 2024 GOP candidates in the Senate who want to pick up Trump's support but also don't want to have to run against him in 2024. They could stop him from running again by convicting, leaving the field open for themselves... but then they'll lose all his supporters... WHAT TO DO
posted by clawsoon at 5:36 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 5:36 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
Has Trump's MetaFilter account been suspended?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:37 PM on January 8, 2021 [39 favorites]
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:37 PM on January 8, 2021 [39 favorites]
Josh Wingrove reports that Trump tweeted under the @POTUS account...and that those messages were removed by Twitter less than 2 minutes later.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 5:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [31 favorites]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 5:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [31 favorites]
Has Trump's MetaFilter account been suspended?
Pshaw. Like he'd read something with this many words and no pictures.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [24 favorites]
Pshaw. Like he'd read something with this many words and no pictures.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [24 favorites]
"I gotta love the irony here - the one time in modern American history people wouldn't take a second look at someone in a mask."
One day this will be a central case study in psychology textbooks, how the cultural associations of "wearing a mask to avoid getting Covid" became so overwhelmingly liberal that conservatives preferred to commit felonies unmasked to avoid looking weak/liberal/effeminate, and how people can be brainwashed against their own clear interests (felonious or disease-avoiding) with tribal identity.
I feel like every weird thing from history where I was like, "But WHY would people DO that? HOW do you convince people to engage in weirdly suicidal tasks obviously destined to failure? How can you convince such large numbers of people to be so incredibly irrational when it's clearly against their own interests?" I'm now like, "Oh, yep, no, now I get it."
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [86 favorites]
One day this will be a central case study in psychology textbooks, how the cultural associations of "wearing a mask to avoid getting Covid" became so overwhelmingly liberal that conservatives preferred to commit felonies unmasked to avoid looking weak/liberal/effeminate, and how people can be brainwashed against their own clear interests (felonious or disease-avoiding) with tribal identity.
I feel like every weird thing from history where I was like, "But WHY would people DO that? HOW do you convince people to engage in weirdly suicidal tasks obviously destined to failure? How can you convince such large numbers of people to be so incredibly irrational when it's clearly against their own interests?" I'm now like, "Oh, yep, no, now I get it."
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [86 favorites]
PayPal and Shopify remove Trump-related accounts: Official MAGA merchandise is no longer for sale through Shopify from Trump-associated stores, and an account that supported Trump supporters who traveled to DC is deactivated.
posted by clawsoon at 5:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [23 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 5:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [23 favorites]
"Twitter removes the accounts of Michael Flynn, Sidney Powell and other high-profile supporters of President Trump that promoted the QAnon conspiracy theory." -- NBC
posted by valkane at 5:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by valkane at 5:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
Why don't they just institute a required review/approval for @POTUS and @WhiteHouse tweets?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
"Why don't they just institute a required review/approval for @POTUS and @WhiteHouse tweets?"
That involves SO much more liability for Twitter.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
That involves SO much more liability for Twitter.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
trump is such a weasel, he's gonna try his mealy mouthed kids' accounts next. Ban the whole crime family.
posted by bluesky43 at 5:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by bluesky43 at 5:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
One day this will be a central case study in psychology textbooks, how the cultural associations of "wearing a mask to avoid getting Covid" became so overwhelmingly liberal that conservatives preferred to commit felonies unmasked to avoid looking weak/liberal/effeminate, and how people can be brainwashed against their own clear interests (felonious or disease-avoiding) with tribal identity.
Heh. Conversely, if you look at various neo-Nazi groups in their pre-pandemic organizing, they were very much all about the masks/gaiters. Punisher/totenkopf motifs were quite popular (not that they still aren't popular, but there was less-than-expected masking happening for reasons related to their anti-mask posturing).
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
Heh. Conversely, if you look at various neo-Nazi groups in their pre-pandemic organizing, they were very much all about the masks/gaiters. Punisher/totenkopf motifs were quite popular (not that they still aren't popular, but there was less-than-expected masking happening for reasons related to their anti-mask posturing).
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
In the Elle piece w/ Rep. Susan Wild [Rep. Susan Wild On The 'Sheer Panic' She Felt In That Viral Photo, linked upthread], she credits Rep. Jason Crow for getting her through a panic attack on Wednesday. The rep from Colorado is a decorated Army Ranger and veteran who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, sworn in for his second term on Jan. 3rd; in the photo, Wild's in the red jacket, Crow is holding her hand; a Crow tweet about the image, thanking the journalists behind the photos, locked in too ("Amid violence in our Capitol, they captured history").
After Wild loses her right shoe when they were rushed off the floor to a committee room: Rep. Crow somehow managed to track down my shoe. Not only was he my personal hero that day, but he also assisted Capitol police with the evacuation and suggested we remove our Congressional pins so we wouldn’t be identified as members of Congress if we encountered perpetrators. Interestingly, one of my African American colleagues, also a brand-new member of Congress, felt safer keeping his pin on.“I don’t want to take it off," he told me, "because I don’t want the police not to know that I’m a member."
[Emphasis mine.]
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [172 favorites]
After Wild loses her right shoe when they were rushed off the floor to a committee room: Rep. Crow somehow managed to track down my shoe. Not only was he my personal hero that day, but he also assisted Capitol police with the evacuation and suggested we remove our Congressional pins so we wouldn’t be identified as members of Congress if we encountered perpetrators. Interestingly, one of my African American colleagues, also a brand-new member of Congress, felt safer keeping his pin on.“I don’t want to take it off," he told me, "because I don’t want the police not to know that I’m a member."
[Emphasis mine.]
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [172 favorites]
Rolling Stone has Rep. Crow's first-hand account. After seeing the Capitol Police "taking furniture and stacking it and barricading it against the door.": I immediately got into Ranger mode, as I say. I’m going to do everything I can, I’m going to take as much action as I can. I did a double-check of all the doors, made sure they were locked. Escorted the more senior members away from the doors, moving them into a defensive position. Asked folks to take off their member pins so that if the mobs break down the doors, the members would be harder to identify. I took a pen out of my pocket to possibly use as a weapon. [...] It was horrifying. I’ve seen riots before. I’ve witnessed riots when I was in the military in Iraq and Afghanistan. I know what mobs and riots are capable of. This is the first time in 15 years I was truly afraid for my life and safety in this way.
I’ve been asked a couple of times: “How does this compare to combat?” I’ve been in some pretty heavy combat in my time in Iraq and Afghanistan. It’s very different. That was my job then. You train for it, you expect it, and you’re ready for it. Never in a million years did I think I’d be in a situation like that in the U.S. Congress, in the U.S. Capitol, on the floor of the House of Representatives. I’m still trying to process that. [...] This was a catastrophic security failure. If this were a military operation, the officers in charge of that operation would’ve been relieved of command on the spot. There has got to be accountability here. It never should’ve happened. Nobody can reconcile the way that we treated Black Lives Matter protesters from this summer with armored vehicles and cordons of National Guard troops on the steps of the Lincoln Monument, with the fact that in a matter of half an hour, this mob was able to breach the shrine of democracy and heart of government and take it over the way they did.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [167 favorites]
I’ve been asked a couple of times: “How does this compare to combat?” I’ve been in some pretty heavy combat in my time in Iraq and Afghanistan. It’s very different. That was my job then. You train for it, you expect it, and you’re ready for it. Never in a million years did I think I’d be in a situation like that in the U.S. Congress, in the U.S. Capitol, on the floor of the House of Representatives. I’m still trying to process that. [...] This was a catastrophic security failure. If this were a military operation, the officers in charge of that operation would’ve been relieved of command on the spot. There has got to be accountability here. It never should’ve happened. Nobody can reconcile the way that we treated Black Lives Matter protesters from this summer with armored vehicles and cordons of National Guard troops on the steps of the Lincoln Monument, with the fact that in a matter of half an hour, this mob was able to breach the shrine of democracy and heart of government and take it over the way they did.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [167 favorites]
"Public pressure to get private companies to exclude speech meant to bring down American democracy is not censorship. It is patriotism." -- Rick Hasen
posted by valkane at 5:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [29 favorites]
posted by valkane at 5:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [29 favorites]
I'm now like, "Oh, yep, no, now I get it."
Do you, though? 'Cause, I really, deeply don't. What I mean here is that I see the phenomenon, but I don't have anything like a sense that I understand it. If you do, then in all seriousness, please explain it to me.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 5:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
Do you, though? 'Cause, I really, deeply don't. What I mean here is that I see the phenomenon, but I don't have anything like a sense that I understand it. If you do, then in all seriousness, please explain it to me.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 5:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
Any Trump-run Mastodon instance would be Fediblocked so fast that your head would spin.
posted by SansPoint at 5:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 5:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
"The president tweeted this from the @POTUS account but the tweets have already been taken down by Twitter." -- Yahshar Ali
I'll save you the click. It's crazy talk.
posted by valkane at 5:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
I'll save you the click. It's crazy talk.
posted by valkane at 5:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
@BarronJohn1946: Hello I am brand new to Twitter, what are you guys up to
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:51 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:51 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
It was horrifying. I’ve seen riots before. I’ve witnessed riots when I was in the military in Iraq and Afghanistan. I know what mobs and riots are capable of. This is the first time in 15 years I was truly afraid for my life and safety in this way.
It sounds pretty bad. Fortunately there was one person in Washington who could have faced them down, stopped it all, and sent the assailants reeling.
There's always atweet public statement to a roomful of governors.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
It sounds pretty bad. Fortunately there was one person in Washington who could have faced them down, stopped it all, and sent the assailants reeling.
There's always a
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
> It's so wonderful. Except that I really want to watch the twitter meltdown that he'd be having in response to being banned from Twitter.
I'm sure somebody's working on an edit of "The Bunker" as I type this.
posted by at by at 5:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'm sure somebody's working on an edit of "The Bunker" as I type this.
posted by at by at 5:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
I just remembered that the Biden administration is going to have very robust counterterrorism asset forfeiture abilities to go along with fighting against white supremacist terrorism and oh boy could that get interesting for any members of the right-wing donor class who decided to dip their toes into helping build these groups.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 5:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
Deplatformapalooza has been a Friday night delight, for real.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [32 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [32 favorites]
oh fuck I just remembered Trump has that presidential alert thing where he can send messages directly to all our phones--@chinchillazilla
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
Has Trump's MetaFilter account been suspended?
Do we really think he'd pay five dollars?
posted by mollweide at 5:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [77 favorites]
Do we really think he'd pay five dollars?
posted by mollweide at 5:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [77 favorites]
Lol. Who would set it up? Barron or Rudy?
Rudy Giuliani, Tsar™ of teh Cyber.
I was going to try to link to an article about that time where he was saying something about Stormy Daniels and tried to claim that he never looks at pornography, and every manager of every pornography website on the entire internet piped up to say, “Oh, no, he looks at porn all the time, here are the logs—I mean we save all of that stuff for infomerchant political blackmail purposes, obviously, but here it is for free”.
But, if you search for his name and “pornography”, there are so many other Rudy Giuliani porn-related scandals that I couldn't find a link in the first several pages of search results.
America's Mayor.
posted by XMLicious at 5:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
Hillary Clinton checks off another item on her to-do list.
posted by orange swan at 5:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [82 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 5:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [82 favorites]
One joke going around South America today is that the US coup failed because there was no US Embassy in Washington DC providing logistical support.
posted by adamvasco at 5:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [102 favorites]
posted by adamvasco at 5:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [102 favorites]
Google Play app store just banned Parler. between that and the Apple ban, the app is functionally cut off.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
The tech companies making all these changes today should announce its part of Operation Warp Speed: Episode 2 - The Cleansing
and yes I know they really shouldn’t do this to prevent confusion on vaccine delivery, but goddamn it’s fun to see something good actually approaching figurative warp speed for once
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
and yes I know they really shouldn’t do this to prevent confusion on vaccine delivery, but goddamn it’s fun to see something good actually approaching figurative warp speed for once
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
If this were a military operation, the officers in charge of that operation would’ve been relieved of command on the spot.
If they hadn't offered their resignations first. This is an absolute and complete failure on their part and they need to own that.
posted by corb at 6:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
If they hadn't offered their resignations first. This is an absolute and complete failure on their part and they need to own that.
posted by corb at 6:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
The second Tweet may also serve as encouragement to those potentially considering violent acts that the Inauguration would be a “safe” target, as he will not be attending.
Honestly, this is the first thing I thought of when I saw that tweet, that he was telling his henchmen (including the ones in the official security services) that they can attack without much collateral damage.
posted by dirigibleman at 6:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
Honestly, this is the first thing I thought of when I saw that tweet, that he was telling his henchmen (including the ones in the official security services) that they can attack without much collateral damage.
posted by dirigibleman at 6:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
Any Trump-run Mastodon instance would be Fediblocked so fast that your head would spin.
I'm pretty sure Trump would have little to no interest in the potential loss of the meager viewership of the Fediverse...
posted by jim in austin at 6:03 PM on January 8, 2021
I'm pretty sure Trump would have little to no interest in the potential loss of the meager viewership of the Fediverse...
posted by jim in austin at 6:03 PM on January 8, 2021
@clawsoon: Official MAGA merchandise is no longer for sale through Shopify from Trump-associated stores, and an account that supported Trump supporters who traveled to DC is deactivated.
Oh dear, I hope you can still buy a Trumpy Bear!
posted by macrone at 6:05 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Oh dear, I hope you can still buy a Trumpy Bear!
posted by macrone at 6:05 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
oh fuck I just remembered Trump has that presidential alert thing where he can send messages directly to all our phone
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH don't mention that on Twitter!
I love that as predicted, he moved back to POTUS, and still got taken down anyway, muahahahah.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:07 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH don't mention that on Twitter!
I love that as predicted, he moved back to POTUS, and still got taken down anyway, muahahahah.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:07 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
Only a million accounts to go. Deplatform all bigots and let them whisper their filth to each other in the sewers. Let the 30% of America that deserves no voice have no voice.
posted by snofoam at 6:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 6:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
>Has Trump's MetaFilter account been suspended?
>Do we really think he'd pay five dollars?
Recall that Trump illegally paid for Donny Jr's Boy Scout membership by taking $7 out of his private charity account. New York State shut down his charity for illegal self-dealing and banned him starting a new one, so I'm guessing Donald would be hard strapped for a MetaFilter account.
Kind of astounding that he is so cheap he steals $7 from a charity.
posted by JackFlash at 6:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
>Do we really think he'd pay five dollars?
Recall that Trump illegally paid for Donny Jr's Boy Scout membership by taking $7 out of his private charity account. New York State shut down his charity for illegal self-dealing and banned him starting a new one, so I'm guessing Donald would be hard strapped for a MetaFilter account.
Kind of astounding that he is so cheap he steals $7 from a charity.
posted by JackFlash at 6:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
I could not help looking at the forum that /r/the_donald moved to, and here's the 4th post in the thread.
dankbob_memepants_ 398 points 2 hours ago +405 / -7 (edited)posted by joeyh at 6:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
What Twitter did is literally a threat to national security. What if China sent a fucking nuke our way rn and he couldn't tell us?
Am I the only one who feels like all these suspensions, take-downs, etc are kind of like turning the kitchen lights on and watching the roaches scuttle behind the walls? I mean they're still there, just not in plain sight...for the moment.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [29 favorites]
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [29 favorites]
What Twitter did is literally a threat to national security. What if China sent a fucking nuke our way rn and he couldn't tell us?
Gettin' all DEW-ey eyed.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Gettin' all DEW-ey eyed.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
‘I Will Not Be Censored,’ Yells Trump Chaining Himself To Phone Displaying Twitter Homepage - The Onion
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
omg, Jayden X just doesn’t know when to quit. He’s uploaded more (post-shooting, safe to see) videos to his Twitter account (scroll down): Unseen Footage!!1! “She was just going through a window! No weapon! None. No violence towards that guy! And she just got shot!”
The bewildered outrage. He sounds very young.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
The bewildered outrage. He sounds very young.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
FOURTH-DEGREE BURN ALERT: Gollum has lost his precious.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
> Thanks, Twitter, Facebook and all the other tech companies and VCs out there today taking a courageous, principled stand at precisely the moment it costs you nothing to do, requires zero courage and is far too late to change anything.
At the moment they're far more invested in pandering to the incoming administration's media and utility regulation bodies to care about collateral damage.
posted by at by at 6:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
At the moment they're far more invested in pandering to the incoming administration's media and utility regulation bodies to care about collateral damage.
posted by at by at 6:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
Has anyone checked Chaturbate tonight?
...Just in case.
posted by delfin at 6:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
...Just in case.
posted by delfin at 6:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
What Twitter did is literally a threat to national security. What if China sent a fucking nuke our way rn and he couldn't tell us?
Considering it took him two and a half hours to respond to an invasion of the U.S. Capital, I'm guessing it would be all over but for the bouncing rubble by the time Trump got around to it.
posted by JackFlash at 6:22 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
Considering it took him two and a half hours to respond to an invasion of the U.S. Capital, I'm guessing it would be all over but for the bouncing rubble by the time Trump got around to it.
posted by JackFlash at 6:22 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
Am I the only one who feels like all these suspensions, take-downs, etc are kind of like turning the kitchen lights on and watching the roaches scuttle behind the walls? I mean they're still there, just not in plain sight...for the moment.
Vice is not my preferred source but this article is a good little roundup of some research showing that deplatforming works.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:22 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
Vice is not my preferred source but this article is a good little roundup of some research showing that deplatforming works.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:22 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
Has anyone checked Chaturbate tonight?
...Just in case.
Oh, is that where the Q-anon Shaman is hanging out? Asking for a friend.
posted by Catblack at 6:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
...Just in case.
Oh, is that where the Q-anon Shaman is hanging out? Asking for a friend.
posted by Catblack at 6:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
The fact that they haven't jumped to the Fediverse is telling - they don't want a platform for free speech; they want an outreach platform that draws in people who aren't already part of their community.
Mastodon has plenty of instances full of absolutely vile content, including illegal content, that nobody else is going near. The larger Fediverse has plenty of other options, if Mastodon's twitter-esque setup isn't quite to their taste. Of course, they all come with the same problem: Someone has to pay for hosting, and a whole lot of other people are going to block contact with them.
They don't want an isolated chatroom for talking with each other; they want to believe they represent the mainstream, that they are Most People and their detractors are a tiny handful of people, some of whom are at the top tiers of the conspiracy trying to hold them down.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [25 favorites]
Mastodon has plenty of instances full of absolutely vile content, including illegal content, that nobody else is going near. The larger Fediverse has plenty of other options, if Mastodon's twitter-esque setup isn't quite to their taste. Of course, they all come with the same problem: Someone has to pay for hosting, and a whole lot of other people are going to block contact with them.
They don't want an isolated chatroom for talking with each other; they want to believe they represent the mainstream, that they are Most People and their detractors are a tiny handful of people, some of whom are at the top tiers of the conspiracy trying to hold them down.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [25 favorites]
"Has Trump's MetaFilter account been suspended?
Pshaw. Like he'd read something with this many words and no pictures."
That's not fair. There's a picture in this very thread!
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 6:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
Pshaw. Like he'd read something with this many words and no pictures."
That's not fair. There's a picture in this very thread!
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 6:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
KING DONALD
A tweet, a tweet! My kingdom for a tweet!
CATESBY
Withdraw, my lord, I’ll help you to a tweet.
KING DONALD
Slave, I have set my life upon a cast,
And I will stand the hazard of the die.
I think there be six Bidens in the field;
Five have I ‘sulted today in stead of him.
A tweet, a tweet! My kingdom for a tweet!
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
A tweet, a tweet! My kingdom for a tweet!
CATESBY
Withdraw, my lord, I’ll help you to a tweet.
KING DONALD
Slave, I have set my life upon a cast,
And I will stand the hazard of the die.
I think there be six Bidens in the field;
Five have I ‘sulted today in stead of him.
A tweet, a tweet! My kingdom for a tweet!
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
Shouldn't he have burst into flames the previous times?
Ah, the Trumpster fire...
posted by y2karl at 6:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Ah, the Trumpster fire...
posted by y2karl at 6:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
They don't want an isolated chatroom for talking with each other
Being in a room with no cucks increases the odds that you are the cuck.
posted by phunniemee at 6:30 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
Being in a room with no cucks increases the odds that you are the cuck.
posted by phunniemee at 6:30 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
"What happened to POTUS?" -- Rudy W. Giuliani
Seriously, you can't make this shit up.
posted by valkane at 6:32 PM on January 8, 2021 [16 favorites]
Seriously, you can't make this shit up.
posted by valkane at 6:32 PM on January 8, 2021 [16 favorites]
Now he's trying to use @TeamTrump. Report the fuck out of that shit.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
"What happened to POTUS?" -- Rudy W. Giuliani
Seriously, you can't make this shit up.
Posted at 9:11pm.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 6:36 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
Seriously, you can't make this shit up.
Posted at 9:11pm.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 6:36 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
> Now he's trying to use @TeamTrump. Report the fuck out of that shit.
It blinked out while I was looking at it. Glorious.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
It blinked out while I was looking at it. Glorious.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
Now he's trying to use @TeamTrump. Report the fuck out of that shit.
In the 10 second window between me loading the page and reloading it, the TeamTrump twitter is suspended. They really are taking evading his ban seriously.
posted by tclark at 6:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
In the 10 second window between me loading the page and reloading it, the TeamTrump twitter is suspended. They really are taking evading his ban seriously.
posted by tclark at 6:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
Twitter' s reporting options are such garbage. Where is "despot clings to power"? Where is "Organized virus disinformation"?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [29 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [29 favorites]
The ultimate proof of their failure: no one here has even thought to suggest Quibi.
posted by PhineasGage at 6:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by PhineasGage at 6:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
What did he say?
posted by Countess Elena at 6:41 PM on January 8, 2021
posted by Countess Elena at 6:41 PM on January 8, 2021
Lies, damn lies. And let’s not be too curious, curiosity about what the ranting man said helped get us into this mess.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:42 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:42 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
The ultimate proof of their failure: no one here has even thought to suggest Quibi.
How about Orkut? Or Google Wave?
posted by Foosnark at 6:42 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
How about Orkut? Or Google Wave?
posted by Foosnark at 6:42 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
> Why don't they just institute a required review/approval for @POTUS and @WhiteHouse tweets?
They pretty much are.
posted by at by at 6:43 PM on January 8, 2021
They pretty much are.
posted by at by at 6:43 PM on January 8, 2021
He's claiming Twitter is coordinating with Democrats and the Radical Left to silence conservatives.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:43 PM on January 8, 2021
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:43 PM on January 8, 2021
Judging by the trending topics on Twitter, a lot of people will be looking for a service named "Parlor."
(Heh.)
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [16 favorites]
(Heh.)
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [16 favorites]
The ultimate proof of their failure: no one here has even thought to suggest Quibi.
Fun fact, a Scaramucci is 1,584 Quibis
posted by jason_steakums at 6:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
Fun fact, a Scaramucci is 1,584 Quibis
posted by jason_steakums at 6:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
Giuliani is at it too....if you want a sewer of gibberish, go look@his twitter. I need eyebleach.
posted by lalochezia at 6:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by lalochezia at 6:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
"Now that Twitter has booted Trump, the next 24 hours will be devoted exclusively to people who don't understand the First Amendment explaining the First Amendment to people who do.
And election Twitter gets a well-needed day off." -- Matt Blaze
posted by valkane at 6:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [33 favorites]
And election Twitter gets a well-needed day off." -- Matt Blaze
posted by valkane at 6:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [33 favorites]
"Judging by the trending topics on Twitter, a lot of people will be looking for a service named "Parlor.""
Parlor is the site started by Via Getty
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 6:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [49 favorites]
Parlor is the site started by Via Getty
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 6:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [49 favorites]
Tomorrow is going to be the first time in four years that I do not begin my day by reporting the President of the United States for hate speech, harassment, disinformation, or inciting violence on Twitter.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [37 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [37 favorites]
One Weird Trick for stopping Trump burner accounts
posted by Rhaomi at 6:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [65 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 6:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [65 favorites]
Lincoln Project’s Rick Wilson: Trump’s Life About to Become "A Burning Hell" | Amanpour and Company
cued to the point where he is asked what's likely to be discussed at the Republican Party's traditional post-election-loss retreat ...
"Here's the shocking terrible thing. Not one of them gives a damn. They have decided, they've made a political calculus, that for at least the next twenty years, there are still enough angry white dudes fifty-five and over to sustain them ... "
posted by philip-random at 6:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [18 favorites]
cued to the point where he is asked what's likely to be discussed at the Republican Party's traditional post-election-loss retreat ...
"Here's the shocking terrible thing. Not one of them gives a damn. They have decided, they've made a political calculus, that for at least the next twenty years, there are still enough angry white dudes fifty-five and over to sustain them ... "
posted by philip-random at 6:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [18 favorites]
TBH, I actually hope that Twitter brings back his account at some point -- though in some kind of frozen form without the ability to post -- if only for the historical record. We need to preserve these primary sources because it won't be too long before we're going to get people who simply can't believe that an actual president was actually broadcasting such wild shit out into the world. Plus it also breaks a ton of the replies & quote tweets dunking on him (like the "there's always a tweet" stuff).
posted by mhum at 6:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by mhum at 6:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
I had never bothered to check what the main Russian social media apps are. There are a few like VKontakte. He could rebrand as tRUmp.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:51 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:51 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
"We should all congratulate Melania Trump for her successful campaign against cyberbullying." - @mslizzhang
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 6:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [80 favorites]
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 6:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [80 favorites]
mhum, his tweets were already archived.
posted by unknowncommand at 6:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by unknowncommand at 6:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
Judging by the trending topics on Twitter, a lot of people will be looking for a service named "Parlor."
A friend works for Parlor.io and the number of complaints from the befuddled they get to their support inbox over the last few weeks...
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
A friend works for Parlor.io and the number of complaints from the befuddled they get to their support inbox over the last few weeks...
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Jonathan Livengood: Do you, though? 'Cause, I really, deeply don't. What I mean here is that I see the phenomenon, but I don't have anything like a sense that I understand it. If you do, then in all seriousness, please explain it to me.
I'd say this, as a long-time follower of far-right activity (although I'm far, far from being an expert): It's syncretism of all sorts bullshit, bigotry, and greed, so it's ultimately just fascism we've seen before, repackaged in ways that seem novel in some respects, but still have traces of what's come before so people can rightfully invoke "warnings from history/never again." Rather than really enagaging with the nuances of any particular strand of it, or get into their "logic" (which doesn't exist in various components of it while other components have very, very cold, precise logic -- see, for example, the "6MWE"-wearing crowd that was at the Capitol and various state legislatures/governor's residences the other day), it's important to understand at what points it, as a movement, coalesces in a grab for power.
And then stomp on it like you would a roach in the kitchen.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
I'd say this, as a long-time follower of far-right activity (although I'm far, far from being an expert): It's syncretism of all sorts bullshit, bigotry, and greed, so it's ultimately just fascism we've seen before, repackaged in ways that seem novel in some respects, but still have traces of what's come before so people can rightfully invoke "warnings from history/never again." Rather than really enagaging with the nuances of any particular strand of it, or get into their "logic" (which doesn't exist in various components of it while other components have very, very cold, precise logic -- see, for example, the "6MWE"-wearing crowd that was at the Capitol and various state legislatures/governor's residences the other day), it's important to understand at what points it, as a movement, coalesces in a grab for power.
And then stomp on it like you would a roach in the kitchen.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
I think this is the first time I've let out a sigh for the past two days. Nowhere near done and the fight will be long and hard but for the moment some kind of actions are being taken. Just need a moment to breathe, energize, and get back into the fray. I send love and hugs to all of you here.
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 6:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 6:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
Lincoln Project’s Rick Wilson: Trump’s Life About to Become "A Burning Hell" | Amanpour and Company
If I had the rest of my life to try, I couldn't give two shits about the Lincoln Project. Couldn't give one shit. Couldn't give half a shit. These are people who got everything they ever wanted and complained about the box it came in. All they ever did was fundraise off of liberals to finance second tier conservative horseshit. Fuck them forever. Please do not link them for any reason ever.
God damn.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [47 favorites]
If I had the rest of my life to try, I couldn't give two shits about the Lincoln Project. Couldn't give one shit. Couldn't give half a shit. These are people who got everything they ever wanted and complained about the box it came in. All they ever did was fundraise off of liberals to finance second tier conservative horseshit. Fuck them forever. Please do not link them for any reason ever.
God damn.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [47 favorites]
"Amused by those tut-tutting that private companies like Twitter are "silencing" the President of the United States, who can hold public press conferences at will even without Twitter is "totalitarianism" or harming free speech. The 1st Amendment deals with GOVERNMENT restraining speech, not private enterprises. Declaring what amounts to a civil right to be on Twitter is akin to declaring that every American has a constitutional right to a TV or radio show. We don't. Private companies can give us airtime or take it away at will." -- Joy Ann Reid
posted by valkane at 6:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [25 favorites]
posted by valkane at 6:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [25 favorites]
Do you ever think maybe Twitter should just ban everyone?
posted by oulipian at 6:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [35 favorites]
posted by oulipian at 6:54 PM on January 8, 2021 [35 favorites]
A friend works for Parlor.io and the number of complaints from the befuddled they get to their support inbox over the last few weeks...
posted by clawsoon at 6:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Journey into SaaSland with Parlor’s very own children’s book, “An Adventure in SaaSland!”I already feel terrorized.
posted by clawsoon at 6:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
when the apocalypse comes, the only account left for Keith Richards to reply to will be @dril.
posted by delfin at 6:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by delfin at 6:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
I would thank everyone to remember that there are a huge chunk of people living in Washington, DC, including a number of MeFites and myself, and remind folks to please not talk about the horrid things that could happen here, because they in fact are.
posted by aspersioncast at 6:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [32 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 6:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [32 favorites]
Vice is not my preferred source but this article is a good little roundup of some research showing that deplatforming works.
Thanks for the link.
My concern at this point is not the ability to provide platforms to radicalize more people who might be susceptible to a 'red pill' but rather our ability to see what the already radicalized mob may be up to next. (Acknowledging that when we had the chance, we clearly didn't pay enough attention.)
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Thanks for the link.
My concern at this point is not the ability to provide platforms to radicalize more people who might be susceptible to a 'red pill' but rather our ability to see what the already radicalized mob may be up to next. (Acknowledging that when we had the chance, we clearly didn't pay enough attention.)
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
This thread on paramilitary-ish Capitol invaders, by John Scott-Railton, successfully identified one of two men carrying zip-ties (Man #2).
Video and photo evidence led him and others to a live mask-less interview with Man #1 (and his mom?)* later Wednesday night from the Grand Hyatt.
He's likely from Tennessee, likely to have appeared at such rallies before. If you're from Tennessee or know people from Tennessee, pass along this video clip and direct them to JSR's twitter direct messages for help with the identification.
* starts at 15:30 in this original version of the video
posted by pjenks at 6:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [21 favorites]
Video and photo evidence led him and others to a live mask-less interview with Man #1 (and his mom?)* later Wednesday night from the Grand Hyatt.
He's likely from Tennessee, likely to have appeared at such rallies before. If you're from Tennessee or know people from Tennessee, pass along this video clip and direct them to JSR's twitter direct messages for help with the identification.
* starts at 15:30 in this original version of the video
posted by pjenks at 6:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [21 favorites]
Do you ever think maybe Twitter should just ban everyone?
Honestly, as terrible as Facebook is, Twitter genuinely feels like a more toxic platform. Its immediacy exacerbates things. It feels more in your face.
posted by Apocryphon at 6:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
Honestly, as terrible as Facebook is, Twitter genuinely feels like a more toxic platform. Its immediacy exacerbates things. It feels more in your face.
posted by Apocryphon at 6:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
"Breaking WaPo: Mitch McConnell is circulating a memo to Republican senators that outlines how a potential Senate trial would work for Trump — proceedings that would all but certainly occur after he leaves the White House." -- Kyle Griffin
posted by valkane at 7:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by valkane at 7:01 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
A new plague sweeps the world. The well off isolate themselves behind their computer screens, working and socializing in cyberspace. The United States President is a shambolic relic incapable of meaningfully exercising his office. The legislature, even more shambolic, is incapable of properly exercising oversight. But when the President riles up a nasty fandom into IRL raiding the symbolic objection to his replacement, even killing a cop, that's too much for the reigning megacorps, who place him under an interdict. He clumsily attempts to evade one megacorp, resulting in a short game of whack-a-mole across their system.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [53 favorites]
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [53 favorites]
"Free Speech Is Under Attack! Censorship is happening like NEVER before! Don’t let them silence us. Sign up at http://DONJR.COM to stay connected! If I get thrown off my social platforms I’ll let you know my thoughts and where I end up."
not fake.
posted by valkane at 7:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
not fake.
posted by valkane at 7:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
(Apologies. My last post was not as clear as I intended: My concern at this point is not reducing access to platforms that might resulting in radicalizing more people who might be susceptible to a 'red pill' but rather our ability to see what the already radicalized mob may be up to next. Thx.)
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 7:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 7:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
I’m very concerned at the sudden coordination of online companies taking this stuff down. Of course they’re worried about legislation, but they’re massive. It’s not impossible they are not just worried about hosting planning but know of planning already underway.
This is wild. This day will be in a book or movie at some point.
posted by glaucon at 7:05 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
This is wild. This day will be in a book or movie at some point.
posted by glaucon at 7:05 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
http://DONJR.COM
what is a target of LOIC/HOIC in 2021?
posted by lalochezia at 7:05 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
what is a target of LOIC/HOIC in 2021?
posted by lalochezia at 7:05 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Do we have to post his garbage message here? Just leave it alone and mention where people can find it if they want to see the poison.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 7:07 PM on January 8, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 7:07 PM on January 8, 2021 [18 favorites]
I can’t believe he went with .COM when he could’ve taken it right into the DONJR.ZONE
posted by oulipian at 7:07 PM on January 8, 2021 [48 favorites]
posted by oulipian at 7:07 PM on January 8, 2021 [48 favorites]
"Twitter tells @b_fung that it has banned Trump’s @teamtrump campaign account because the president tried tweeting there tonight after his own account was banned and his attempted tweets were swiftly deleted from the government @POTUS account." -- Daniel Dale
posted by valkane at 7:08 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by valkane at 7:08 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
A new plague sweeps the world. The well off isolate themselves behind their computer screens, working and socializing in cyberspace. The United States President is a shambolic relic incapable of meaningfully exercising his office. The legislature, even more shambolic, is incapable of properly exercising oversight. But when the President riles up a nasty fandom into IRL raiding the symbolic objection to his replacement, even killing a cop, that's too much for the reigning megacorps, who place him under an interdict. He clumsily attempts to evade one megacorp, resulting in a short game of whack-a-mole across their system.
I did enjoy cyberpunk when I was younger.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:08 PM on January 8, 2021 [18 favorites]
I did enjoy cyberpunk when I was younger.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:08 PM on January 8, 2021 [18 favorites]
Nothing projects strength like spending your night throwing a tantrum and unsuccessfully trying to sneak back onto Twitter over and over again
posted by jason_steakums at 7:08 PM on January 8, 2021 [66 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:08 PM on January 8, 2021 [66 favorites]
It’s not impossible they are not just worried about hosting planning but know of planning already underway.
Twitter's official risk assessment explicitly mentioned that the ban was related to information they have about violence planned against both state and federal government buildings on Jan 17 and Jan 20.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 7:09 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
Twitter's official risk assessment explicitly mentioned that the ban was related to information they have about violence planned against both state and federal government buildings on Jan 17 and Jan 20.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 7:09 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
our ability to see what the already radicalized mob may be up to next
The worst closed fascist chatrooms seem to get infiltrated fairly regularly- they really are quite limited in their ability to vet people. So researchers and antifascist activists do get in. Any vaguely open platform like Parler is going to be straightforward to monitor.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
The worst closed fascist chatrooms seem to get infiltrated fairly regularly- they really are quite limited in their ability to vet people. So researchers and antifascist activists do get in. Any vaguely open platform like Parler is going to be straightforward to monitor.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
The Trump campaign digital director Gary Coby just had his account suspended by Twitter after he changed his Twitter name to "Donald Trump" and tweeted from his account.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [44 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [44 favorites]
It is fascinating to see a private corporation playing such an enormous role in the political sphere. I can't think of another time in U.S. history when this was the case.
posted by PhineasGage at 7:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by PhineasGage at 7:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
oh tender lols
Vincent Adultman had a better disguise than that
posted by Countess Elena at 7:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
Vincent Adultman had a better disguise than that
posted by Countess Elena at 7:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump [blog.twitter.com]
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 7:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 7:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
The fact that the President of the United States is spending his Friday night logging into whatever accounts he can get his hands on so he can post about how the mods are unfair before getting banned.. it's just.. I feel like I'm having some kind of awful dream in 2004
posted by theodolite at 7:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [102 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 7:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [102 favorites]
A new plague sweeps the world. The well off isolate themselves behind their computer screens, working and socializing in cyberspace. The United States President is a shambolic relic incapable of meaningfully exercising his office. The legislature, even more shambolic, is incapable of properly exercising oversight. But when the President riles up a nasty fandom into IRL raiding the symbolic objection to his replacement, even killing a cop, that's too much for the reigning megacorps, who place him under an interdict. He clumsily attempts to evade one megacorp, resulting in a short game of whack-a-mole across their system.
Ding ding ding. Winner winner deplatform dinner.
And still, nobody's going to ask Jack Dorsey, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk (or even Bill Gates), much less the mega-wealthy who are smart enough to stay the hell out of the public eye to be taxed at a level that would a.) be a rounding error on their personal wealth, and b.) would provide enough tax revenue to fully fund something approaching universal health care in the U.S., among other certain basics provided by other countries as SOP.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
Ding ding ding. Winner winner deplatform dinner.
And still, nobody's going to ask Jack Dorsey, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk (or even Bill Gates), much less the mega-wealthy who are smart enough to stay the hell out of the public eye to be taxed at a level that would a.) be a rounding error on their personal wealth, and b.) would provide enough tax revenue to fully fund something approaching universal health care in the U.S., among other certain basics provided by other countries as SOP.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
It is almost inevitable that Trump will demand to post via @GOP or similar. I hope he burns the whole thing to the ground on his way out.
posted by jedicus at 7:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by jedicus at 7:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
Hm... If I was Trump and wanted to keep using Twitter, I'd just put out a press release whenever I had something to say, with something like: Press Release. If you support Trump, at 10:15pm today tweet: "[Trump tweet text here]". Unless they start banning anyone or anything quoting Trump, there's pretty much nothing Twitter could do.
posted by chortly at 7:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by chortly at 7:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
It's too bad Twitter isn't seen as an American Institution or he'd get ten years right off the bat.
posted by valkane at 7:12 PM on January 8, 2021
posted by valkane at 7:12 PM on January 8, 2021
Though this has been a terrible week, (and as aspersioncast points out, some mefites are still too close to danger for anyone to be relieved yet), I hope you all can join me in some small measure of joy that right now the Donald is impotent and seething and pissed off and has no outlet at all for his frustration.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [36 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [36 favorites]
Good grief, this is like the time that teen Tweeted from her family's smart fridge because her mom had confiscated all of her other electronics.
posted by merriment at 7:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [76 favorites]
posted by merriment at 7:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [76 favorites]
It is fascinating to see a private corporation playing such an enormous role in the political sphere. I can't think of another time in U.S. history when this was the case.
First clearest example off the top of my head, I believe Dole overthrew the Hawaiian monarchy.
posted by aniola at 7:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [52 favorites]
First clearest example off the top of my head, I believe Dole overthrew the Hawaiian monarchy.
posted by aniola at 7:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [52 favorites]
The worst closed fascist chatrooms seem to get infiltrated fairly regularly- they really are quite limited in their ability to vet people. So researchers and antifascist activists do get in. Any vaguely open platform like Parler is going to be straightforward to monitor.
I'm lighting a candle that this is not only correct but that going forward we all pay better attention.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 7:15 PM on January 8, 2021
I'm lighting a candle that this is not only correct but that going forward we all pay better attention.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 7:15 PM on January 8, 2021
I hope someone releases a video of him raging like a maniac, covered in Big Mac sauce
posted by glaucon at 7:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by glaucon at 7:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Reverse IP - Websites on the same IP Address [as donjr.com]
parent-fool-tool.••• [no website]
topautoosat.••• [under construction]
www.huobi.••• [cryptocurrency]
2789de.••• [porn]
You'd think a billionaire family could afford a web hosting account that provides its own IP address. TLDs are censored because there's nothing good in sending them traffic either.
posted by at by at 7:17 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
parent-fool-tool.••• [no website]
topautoosat.••• [under construction]
www.huobi.••• [cryptocurrency]
2789de.••• [porn]
You'd think a billionaire family could afford a web hosting account that provides its own IP address. TLDs are censored because there's nothing good in sending them traffic either.
posted by at by at 7:17 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
FBI focuses on whether some Capitol rioters intended to harm lawmakers or take hostages (WaPo, Jan. 8, 2021) ... Some rioters, for instance, were photographed carrying zip ties, a plastic version of handcuffs, and one man was arrested allegedly carrying a pistol on the Capitol grounds. “We’re not looking at this as a grand conspiracy, but we are interested in learning what people would do with things like zip ties,” said a law enforcement official, who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the investigation.
[can't rule out a clutch of misunderstood Harry Tuttles, intent on bundling errant cables; no wonder they beelined for the offices]
Article: One possibility being pursued by investigators is that some who burst into the building may be current or former law enforcement officers, or current and former military personnel, people familiar with the investigation said. Some who participated in the larger pro-Trump protest this week do work in law enforcement. Chris West, the sheriff of Canadian County in Oklahoma, for example, held a news conference Friday to dispute that he was the person pictured on social media who claimed he was inside the Capitol, according to a Fox affiliate there. West told reporters that though he did come to rally in D.C. as an “individual” and Trump supporter, he never set foot in the Capitol building and thought he was walking from Liberty Square in the direction of the Capitol when the violence began.
They all intended to "harm lawmakers." Being under attack by a mob of domestic terrorists is harmful.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:17 PM on January 8, 2021 [28 favorites]
[can't rule out a clutch of misunderstood Harry Tuttles, intent on bundling errant cables; no wonder they beelined for the offices]
Article: One possibility being pursued by investigators is that some who burst into the building may be current or former law enforcement officers, or current and former military personnel, people familiar with the investigation said. Some who participated in the larger pro-Trump protest this week do work in law enforcement. Chris West, the sheriff of Canadian County in Oklahoma, for example, held a news conference Friday to dispute that he was the person pictured on social media who claimed he was inside the Capitol, according to a Fox affiliate there. West told reporters that though he did come to rally in D.C. as an “individual” and Trump supporter, he never set foot in the Capitol building and thought he was walking from Liberty Square in the direction of the Capitol when the violence began.
They all intended to "harm lawmakers." Being under attack by a mob of domestic terrorists is harmful.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:17 PM on January 8, 2021 [28 favorites]
I know we’re all enjoying the Trump Twitter meltdown, but this is worth a note....
Breaking: Computers with Access to Classified Material Stolen from Capitol (Sofrep)
A SOFREP source inside the Pentagon has confirmed that several classified SECRET laptops were stolen from the Capitol Building during Wednesday’s chaotic events. According to the source, who spoke to SOFREP under the condition of anonymity, some of the computers were left open and logged into the government’s classified network known as the SIPRNet.
SIPRNet, or the Secret Internet Protocol Router Network, is, simply put, the Department of Defense’s classified version of the civilian internet. It is a network of secure computers and servers that allows users from the Department of Defense, the Department of State, and other government bodies to transmit classified information.
On Thursday, following the breach of the Capitol building, the SIPRNet was shut down for a portion of the day before an update was pushed out, according to several SOFREP sources.
posted by rambling wanderlust at 7:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [29 favorites]
Breaking: Computers with Access to Classified Material Stolen from Capitol (Sofrep)
A SOFREP source inside the Pentagon has confirmed that several classified SECRET laptops were stolen from the Capitol Building during Wednesday’s chaotic events. According to the source, who spoke to SOFREP under the condition of anonymity, some of the computers were left open and logged into the government’s classified network known as the SIPRNet.
SIPRNet, or the Secret Internet Protocol Router Network, is, simply put, the Department of Defense’s classified version of the civilian internet. It is a network of secure computers and servers that allows users from the Department of Defense, the Department of State, and other government bodies to transmit classified information.
On Thursday, following the breach of the Capitol building, the SIPRNet was shut down for a portion of the day before an update was pushed out, according to several SOFREP sources.
posted by rambling wanderlust at 7:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [29 favorites]
Extinction bursts can be entertaining as fuck.
posted by medusa at 7:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by medusa at 7:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
An Onlyfans account makes sense - hear me out - you have to pay before you see the premium content.
posted by adept256 at 7:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 7:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
The images and stories coming out about the riot are really chilling. Someone upthread linked or made the 9/11 comparison, and it is apt. But this could be far worse in the long haul.
posted by vrakatar at 7:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 7:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
Though this has been a terrible week, (and as aspersioncast points out, some mefites are still too close to danger for anyone to be relieved yet), I hope you all can join me in some small measure of joy that right now the Donald is impotent and seething and pissed off and has no outlet at all for his frustration.
@kashanacauley Happy schadenfreude night to all who observe.
posted by Celsius1414 at 7:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
@kashanacauley Happy schadenfreude night to all who observe.
posted by Celsius1414 at 7:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
Donald Trump began the day with a Twitter account.
Donald Trump ended the day without a Twitter account.
Joe Biden takes office in 12 days.
Goodnight. -- Marc E. Elias
posted by valkane at 7:23 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
Donald Trump ended the day without a Twitter account.
Joe Biden takes office in 12 days.
Goodnight. -- Marc E. Elias
posted by valkane at 7:23 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
SILENCED ALL MY LIFE!!!
posted by moonlight on vermont at 7:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [23 favorites]
posted by moonlight on vermont at 7:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [23 favorites]
Rush Limbaugh’s Twitter account has been deactivated
posted by glaucon at 7:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [90 favorites]
posted by glaucon at 7:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [90 favorites]
Do you ever think maybe Twitter should just ban everyone?
Works for me!
(Regardless of its utility, I've had an aesthetic issue with the platform since its Day 1 because: sounds dumb.)
posted by Rash at 7:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
Works for me!
(Regardless of its utility, I've had an aesthetic issue with the platform since its Day 1 because: sounds dumb.)
posted by Rash at 7:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
we all pay better attention.
Um. Lots of people have been pointing out for years but especially over the last 72 hours that 1) whoever this "we" is who have not been paying attention, it is overwhelmingly white and male and financially stable if not wealthy and 2) "we" do not need to pay better attention nearly as much as "they" who actually have some power and authority need to take this shit that the "not we's" have been paying attention to forever fucking seriously.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [31 favorites]
Um. Lots of people have been pointing out for years but especially over the last 72 hours that 1) whoever this "we" is who have not been paying attention, it is overwhelmingly white and male and financially stable if not wealthy and 2) "we" do not need to pay better attention nearly as much as "they" who actually have some power and authority need to take this shit that the "not we's" have been paying attention to forever fucking seriously.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:26 PM on January 8, 2021 [31 favorites]
"Rush Limbaugh’s Twitter account has been deactivated"
OH MY GOD THIS MAKES ME SO HAPPY
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 7:27 PM on January 8, 2021 [36 favorites]
OH MY GOD THIS MAKES ME SO HAPPY
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 7:27 PM on January 8, 2021 [36 favorites]
Can't help thinking of the time when I was 17 that my dumbass friend got his fake ID confiscated at the door and then he went home and grabbed his other fake ID and went back to the same bar and got it confiscated again
posted by saturday_morning at 7:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [64 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 7:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [64 favorites]
"Extinction bursts can be entertaining as fuck."
Yeah I gotta say that having handled giant man-babies freaking out when they're banned and engaging in just this kind of behavior (trying to make a dozen new accounts, screaming censorship, doubtless sending abusive e-mails/contact form messages to twitter), watching Trump do it is kinda cracking me up.
Presidents -- they're just like us! (For values of "us" that == "giant man-babies who have never had anything worse in their entire lives happen than someone telling them to STFU and cannot believe there are consequences for failing to follow the rules")
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
Yeah I gotta say that having handled giant man-babies freaking out when they're banned and engaging in just this kind of behavior (trying to make a dozen new accounts, screaming censorship, doubtless sending abusive e-mails/contact form messages to twitter), watching Trump do it is kinda cracking me up.
Presidents -- they're just like us! (For values of "us" that == "giant man-babies who have never had anything worse in their entire lives happen than someone telling them to STFU and cannot believe there are consequences for failing to follow the rules")
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
"I only posted to Parler IRONICALLY" will be the "I was just following orders" of this decade.
posted by delfin at 7:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by delfin at 7:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
Does Parler have any nice accounts? Like dog_rates or museum social media? Does the platform have any purpose other than evil?
posted by Countess Elena at 7:31 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 7:31 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
I know this is so low on the ladder of information about Parler, but just for my edification, how is it supposed to be pronounced? Par-LAY or Par-LER
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 7:33 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 7:33 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
This whole situation fills me with such glee. I'm honored to be here amongst all of you on this, the schadenfreudiest of days (so far).
posted by Gray Duck at 7:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by Gray Duck at 7:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
So, can the FCC start doing some of this too? Banning Limbaugh's radio show would be awesome.
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 7:35 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 7:35 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
Just because everyone needs a break:
"Hannity tonight devoted an entire segment of his show to trying to debunk a satirical tweet alleging he lost his lifetime pasta pass at Olive Garden " -- Aaron Rupar
posted by valkane at 7:35 PM on January 8, 2021 [69 favorites]
"Hannity tonight devoted an entire segment of his show to trying to debunk a satirical tweet alleging he lost his lifetime pasta pass at Olive Garden " -- Aaron Rupar
posted by valkane at 7:35 PM on January 8, 2021 [69 favorites]
Rush Limbaugh’s Twitter account has been deactivated
It's like all my Christmases have come at once. Crossing my fingers that I get fame, riches, and a dog of my own by tomorrow.
Hey, is the Great Reset I've been hearing about? I think it's going pretty good so far.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:36 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
It's like all my Christmases have come at once. Crossing my fingers that I get fame, riches, and a dog of my own by tomorrow.
Hey, is the Great Reset I've been hearing about? I think it's going pretty good so far.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:36 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
I’m very concerned at the sudden coordination of online companies taking this stuff down.
There is nothing sinister or reassuring about the timing. The Dems won the Senate, giving them the trifecta, and now they are free to stand up to whatever they want without fear of being kneecapped by repeal of section 230.
It's pure, mundane capitalist self interest.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:37 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
There is nothing sinister or reassuring about the timing. The Dems won the Senate, giving them the trifecta, and now they are free to stand up to whatever they want without fear of being kneecapped by repeal of section 230.
It's pure, mundane capitalist self interest.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:37 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
If I was Trump and wanted to keep using Twitter, I'd just put out a press release whenever I had something to say, with something like: Press Release. If you support Trump, at 10:15pm today tweet: "[Trump tweet text here]". Unless they start banning anyone or anything quoting Trump, there's pretty much nothing Twitter could do.He doesn't seem to be very smart, does he?
posted by moonbiter at 7:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
As a negotiated settlement we should at least let POTUS upload his messages to data.gov. But only if they are encoded in .BMD3 files - Nintendo GameCube’s proprietary model format on even date days, and .SAC – Seismic Analysis Code earthquake seismology data format on odd days. Ever third Tweet needs to be encoded in the Zune Playlist (ZPL) format.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
It is fascinating to see a private corporation playing such an enormous role in the political sphere. I can't think of another time in U.S. history when this was the case.
Yellow journalism starting the Spanish-American war, maybe?
posted by clawsoon at 7:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
Yellow journalism starting the Spanish-American war, maybe?
posted by clawsoon at 7:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
I know this is so low on the ladder of information about Parler, but just for my edification, how is it supposed to be pronounced? Par-LAY or Par-LER
I have wondered this myself. It seems like that might be Job One for a branding consultant: making sure people can figure out what the company is called. (I'm coming for you, Mondelez.)
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
I have wondered this myself. It seems like that might be Job One for a branding consultant: making sure people can figure out what the company is called. (I'm coming for you, Mondelez.)
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
Is it... is it possible Limbaugh buttoned rather than got banned?
posted by gwint at 7:42 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by gwint at 7:42 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
no one will call it Parlay, except maybe Cajuns, who are pretty much Trump fans, so who knows
posted by Countess Elena at 7:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 7:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Claudia Conway reports on her TikTok account that her father George walked out on them this morning and has said he wants nothing to do with her or her mom anymore.
posted by interogative mood at 7:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [33 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 7:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [33 favorites]
It is fascinating to see a private corporation playing such an enormous role in the political sphere. I can't think of another time in U.S. history when this was the case.
That may be the case because many of them are insulated behind several layers of lobbying firms, PACs, shell companies and other obfuscating layers, while they enact their will on the political sphere.
posted by JDC8 at 7:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
That may be the case because many of them are insulated behind several layers of lobbying firms, PACs, shell companies and other obfuscating layers, while they enact their will on the political sphere.
posted by JDC8 at 7:44 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
this is important
LEGO Capitol Invasion
posted by philip-random at 7:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [24 favorites]
LEGO Capitol Invasion
posted by philip-random at 7:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [24 favorites]
So I went to Donnie Jr's web site so you don't have to.
It's just a page flacking Jr's book for $29.99. But here's the kicker. For an extra $10 he will sign it.
It's just astounding the cheapness of this family. Pimping autographs for $10 a pop like a broke-ass ex-baseball player at a sports convention.
posted by JackFlash at 7:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [20 favorites]
It's just a page flacking Jr's book for $29.99. But here's the kicker. For an extra $10 he will sign it.
It's just astounding the cheapness of this family. Pimping autographs for $10 a pop like a broke-ass ex-baseball player at a sports convention.
posted by JackFlash at 7:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [20 favorites]
The real question that I'm sure is on everyone's mind is when will Club Penguin ban Trump?
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 7:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 7:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
> Pimping autographs for $10 a pop like a broke-ass ex-baseball player at a sports convention.
You think he's writing those autographs himself, rather than having copies of his signature printed and pasted in?
posted by at by at 7:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
You think he's writing those autographs himself, rather than having copies of his signature printed and pasted in?
posted by at by at 7:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
Is it... is it possible Limbaugh buttoned rather than got banned?
Twitter confirmed to USA TODAY that the account wasn't suspended but "deactivated by the owner."
posted by clawsoon at 7:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
Twitter confirmed to USA TODAY that the account wasn't suspended but "deactivated by the owner."
posted by clawsoon at 7:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
So the jsrailton threads that were hunting zip guy tie have almost certainly found him. It was really some spectacular crowdsourced OSINT work.
posted by tavella at 7:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by tavella at 7:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [18 favorites]
no one will call it Parlay, except maybe Cajuns, who are pretty much Trump fans, so who knows
In my defense, I am Canadian and bilingual and sometimes give the benefit of the doubt to French words in English contexts. I recall once being in Milwaukee and asking someone for directions only to receive a blank stare when I didn't realize that Beloit had the same vowel sounds as exploit.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:51 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
In my defense, I am Canadian and bilingual and sometimes give the benefit of the doubt to French words in English contexts. I recall once being in Milwaukee and asking someone for directions only to receive a blank stare when I didn't realize that Beloit had the same vowel sounds as exploit.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:51 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
I'd bet he was told not to show.
Adams was upset in 1801, did not attend Jeffersons swearing in though he was mourning his son.
isn't the 't' soft in Beloit?
posted by clavdivs at 7:52 PM on January 8, 2021
Adams was upset in 1801, did not attend Jeffersons swearing in though he was mourning his son.
isn't the 't' soft in Beloit?
posted by clavdivs at 7:52 PM on January 8, 2021
I'd bet he was told not to show.
President-elect Joe Biden said President Donald Trump's decision to skip his inauguration is "one of the few things he and I have ever agreed on."
posted by clawsoon at 7:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [45 favorites]
President-elect Joe Biden said President Donald Trump's decision to skip his inauguration is "one of the few things he and I have ever agreed on."
posted by clawsoon at 7:55 PM on January 8, 2021 [45 favorites]
Okay, I've been irreverent enough tonight. Here's a serious and, I hope, sobering thought.
Donald Trump could get on national TV tonight and come completely clean, admitting that the election was fair, declaring that he'd knowingly been stringing everyone along since November, proclaiming Dominion's complete innocence, regretting the loss of life and requesting that his followers back down and refrain from further violence.
And it wouldn't matter enough to stop further violent unrest.
A large chunk of them would declare that it was faked; it was a body double, it was a clone, it was CGI, it was a Disneyworld animatronic figure, the audio was hacked and dubbed over Trump's actual speech. Or that Trump was coerced; there were guns pointed at him or at his family's heads offscreen, there were threats of murdering millions of True American Patriots if he didn't submit, all of the world powers at once threatened to nuke America unless he stepped down now.
Others will declare that it was all an elaborate headfake. The third letter of each word he spoke refers to a Q drop from 2018 that references a court case from 1844 that lays out the route to a hidden, forgotten law that will enable Trump to arrest all of the libs at once, hold military tribunals and become Emperor Trump, and all they need to do is follow the clues.
Others are already furious at Trump for the quarter-hearted concession he has already offered, but are too far committed to stop now. Trump faltered, but he showed how weak the system truly is, and the door is open for Real American Patriots[tm] to step in and seize the government via force of arms and strength of will.
Others will reject every "news source" that even hints that the Trumpublican Coup has failed and turn to OANN, or Newsmax, or remote message boards, or anyone else they can find to support the worldview they cherish -- that the crossroads are here, the final battle has come, they're going to win because God is on their side, and it's time to wipe the unbeliever off the map once and for all.
This is not to suggest that we are going to see mass bloodshed, in DC or anywhere else, necessarily. (Those crazy enough to plan mass destruction are rarely sane enough to pull it off.) Having been caught with their pants not just down but held hostage once, various LEO agencies will not be as likely to range from helpless to complicit the next time.
But in terms of sheer demoralization, in terms of showing how vulnerable American institutions are, Trump has already won. He has set in motion a situation in which a violent mob raged against a democratic process they disliked -- and disrupted it successfully -- AND most of the participants walked away unimpeded, at least temporarily.
They have tested their ability to shove aside nonlethal resistance, and with one notable exception who engaged the wrong people, they advanced successfully through it. The next time will -- MUST -- involve a far stiffer response, a level of force that intimidates wannabe revolutionaries into standing back. Not "shoot without provocation," not "gun down the hordes if they step forward," but a display of sheer, offputting this-is-not-to-be-trifled-with firepower.
And that, in and of itself, is sad. But it will be necessary.
posted by delfin at 7:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [61 favorites]
Donald Trump could get on national TV tonight and come completely clean, admitting that the election was fair, declaring that he'd knowingly been stringing everyone along since November, proclaiming Dominion's complete innocence, regretting the loss of life and requesting that his followers back down and refrain from further violence.
And it wouldn't matter enough to stop further violent unrest.
A large chunk of them would declare that it was faked; it was a body double, it was a clone, it was CGI, it was a Disneyworld animatronic figure, the audio was hacked and dubbed over Trump's actual speech. Or that Trump was coerced; there were guns pointed at him or at his family's heads offscreen, there were threats of murdering millions of True American Patriots if he didn't submit, all of the world powers at once threatened to nuke America unless he stepped down now.
Others will declare that it was all an elaborate headfake. The third letter of each word he spoke refers to a Q drop from 2018 that references a court case from 1844 that lays out the route to a hidden, forgotten law that will enable Trump to arrest all of the libs at once, hold military tribunals and become Emperor Trump, and all they need to do is follow the clues.
Others are already furious at Trump for the quarter-hearted concession he has already offered, but are too far committed to stop now. Trump faltered, but he showed how weak the system truly is, and the door is open for Real American Patriots[tm] to step in and seize the government via force of arms and strength of will.
Others will reject every "news source" that even hints that the Trumpublican Coup has failed and turn to OANN, or Newsmax, or remote message boards, or anyone else they can find to support the worldview they cherish -- that the crossroads are here, the final battle has come, they're going to win because God is on their side, and it's time to wipe the unbeliever off the map once and for all.
This is not to suggest that we are going to see mass bloodshed, in DC or anywhere else, necessarily. (Those crazy enough to plan mass destruction are rarely sane enough to pull it off.) Having been caught with their pants not just down but held hostage once, various LEO agencies will not be as likely to range from helpless to complicit the next time.
But in terms of sheer demoralization, in terms of showing how vulnerable American institutions are, Trump has already won. He has set in motion a situation in which a violent mob raged against a democratic process they disliked -- and disrupted it successfully -- AND most of the participants walked away unimpeded, at least temporarily.
They have tested their ability to shove aside nonlethal resistance, and with one notable exception who engaged the wrong people, they advanced successfully through it. The next time will -- MUST -- involve a far stiffer response, a level of force that intimidates wannabe revolutionaries into standing back. Not "shoot without provocation," not "gun down the hordes if they step forward," but a display of sheer, offputting this-is-not-to-be-trifled-with firepower.
And that, in and of itself, is sad. But it will be necessary.
posted by delfin at 7:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [61 favorites]
Is it... is it possible Limbaugh buttoned rather than got banned?
Twitter confirmed to USA TODAY that the account wasn't suspended but "deactivated by the owner."
I cannot do better than to quote srboisvert's immortal assessment of the Chicago Tribune endorsing Obama in 2008 after a 161-year run of supporting Republicans:
Twitter confirmed to USA TODAY that the account wasn't suspended but "deactivated by the owner."
I cannot do better than to quote srboisvert's immortal assessment of the Chicago Tribune endorsing Obama in 2008 after a 161-year run of supporting Republicans:
Flag endorses wind direction.posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [50 favorites]
Beloit was named to be reminiscent of Detroit and is pronounced the same.
posted by Slinga at 7:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Slinga at 7:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
Day-TWAAH?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [26 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [26 favorites]
when will Club Penguin ban Trump?
I too would like to see Trump kicked off Linux
posted by oulipian at 8:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
I too would like to see Trump kicked off Linux
posted by oulipian at 8:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
Ben Garrison, whose pro-Trump cartoons were so over-the-top that I assumed for a long time that he was a satirist, suspended from Twitter.
posted by clawsoon at 8:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 8:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [20 favorites]
I sort of wish Twitter had taken a page from The Office and set up the equivalent of www.trumpthoughts.gov.www/trumpthoughts
posted by Superilla at 8:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Superilla at 8:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
no one will call it Parlay, except maybe Cajuns, who are pretty much Trump fans, so who knows
HI! Cajun here. Born in Lafayette, Louisiana. Grew up in Lake Charles, Louisiana. My family was expelled from Acadia (now Nova Scotia) as a consequence of the Great Upheaval--you can find an early version of my family name at memorials there.
(Currently in Ohio--went to school at Miami University. Met a girl. You know the rest...)
Very much not a Trump/GOP fan. Please don't generalize about that!
That said: the relationship between pronunciation and written words among Cajuns is tenuous at best. The first time I took her to Louisiana, I had fun listening to my Midwest-raised wife try to read a map.
posted by MrGuilt at 8:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [55 favorites]
HI! Cajun here. Born in Lafayette, Louisiana. Grew up in Lake Charles, Louisiana. My family was expelled from Acadia (now Nova Scotia) as a consequence of the Great Upheaval--you can find an early version of my family name at memorials there.
(Currently in Ohio--went to school at Miami University. Met a girl. You know the rest...)
Very much not a Trump/GOP fan. Please don't generalize about that!
That said: the relationship between pronunciation and written words among Cajuns is tenuous at best. The first time I took her to Louisiana, I had fun listening to my Midwest-raised wife try to read a map.
posted by MrGuilt at 8:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [55 favorites]
McConnell floats memo on procedures for second impeachment.
TL/DR: Mitch’s obstruction game is strong.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 8:06 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
TL/DR: Mitch’s obstruction game is strong.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 8:06 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
Time to re-read Marx's "18th Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte", which I highly recommend to anyone who is willing to read a dense but not-at-all dry 19th century historical and political text and has a couple hours to burn. I re-read it in 2016 after Trump's election, which was November 9, one day after 18th of Brumaire in calendar of the French Republic.
Louis Bonaparte, nephew of Napoleon, executed a self-coup in 1851, the last year of his democratically elected term. Marx paints him and his cohorts as populist buffoons, and his supporters as the lumpenproletariat. Marx finds the entire period from his legal rise to power in 1848 to the coup of 1851 to be a tragicomedy, finding much to ridicule, whence one of Marx's more well-known aphorisms, "all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice...the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce."
I had thought that 2016 was the farce. That the tragedy had been the arc of the American political landscape following the Civil Rights era. Maybe it was Nixon, or Reagan, or W. Bush. But it was quickly apparent in 2017, and even more in 2020 with 300,000 dead, that 2016 was just more tragedy.
It would be callous to find the events of the past 48 hours farcical. But at the very least I can laugh like hell as I picture Trump somewhere with Rudy, bumbling around right now, debasing himself to anyone who will still answer his phone calls (when he dials the correct number), covered in flop sweat and chugging Diet Coke, wondering what he's going to do without a Twitter account.
posted by Room 101 at 8:07 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
Louis Bonaparte, nephew of Napoleon, executed a self-coup in 1851, the last year of his democratically elected term. Marx paints him and his cohorts as populist buffoons, and his supporters as the lumpenproletariat. Marx finds the entire period from his legal rise to power in 1848 to the coup of 1851 to be a tragicomedy, finding much to ridicule, whence one of Marx's more well-known aphorisms, "all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice...the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce."
I had thought that 2016 was the farce. That the tragedy had been the arc of the American political landscape following the Civil Rights era. Maybe it was Nixon, or Reagan, or W. Bush. But it was quickly apparent in 2017, and even more in 2020 with 300,000 dead, that 2016 was just more tragedy.
It would be callous to find the events of the past 48 hours farcical. But at the very least I can laugh like hell as I picture Trump somewhere with Rudy, bumbling around right now, debasing himself to anyone who will still answer his phone calls (when he dials the correct number), covered in flop sweat and chugging Diet Coke, wondering what he's going to do without a Twitter account.
posted by Room 101 at 8:07 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
Others will reject every "news source" that even hints that the Trumpublican Coup has failed and turn to OANN, or Newsmax, or remote message boards, or anyone else they can find to support the worldview they cherish -- that the crossroads are here, the final battle has come, they're going to win because God is on their side, and it's time to wipe the unbeliever off the map once and for all.
In 1992, Pat Buchanan pounded the podium at the RNC and demanded a "cultural cleansing of America." Those were his verbatim words. He got a standing ovation.
It's been a long road to get here, and Trump was but a symptom -- hopefully an apotheosis. But we'll see.
In the Lincoln Project's United States of America, the terror will be back firmly where it belongs -- in the evangelical churches, ICE, CBP, and the police proper. The difference will be in rhetoric, tone, and means of action, but not in the outcome. Reagan was happy to let people die of a virus he would refuse to speak the name of in public until 1986. Trump is just another step on that journey.
Whether enough people have decided that they're tired and want to find a better path remains to be seen. If this was the wake-up call that it was the Donner Party all along, so be it. Just turn back before winter really sets in.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:08 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
In 1992, Pat Buchanan pounded the podium at the RNC and demanded a "cultural cleansing of America." Those were his verbatim words. He got a standing ovation.
It's been a long road to get here, and Trump was but a symptom -- hopefully an apotheosis. But we'll see.
In the Lincoln Project's United States of America, the terror will be back firmly where it belongs -- in the evangelical churches, ICE, CBP, and the police proper. The difference will be in rhetoric, tone, and means of action, but not in the outcome. Reagan was happy to let people die of a virus he would refuse to speak the name of in public until 1986. Trump is just another step on that journey.
Whether enough people have decided that they're tired and want to find a better path remains to be seen. If this was the wake-up call that it was the Donner Party all along, so be it. Just turn back before winter really sets in.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:08 PM on January 8, 2021 [17 favorites]
just for my edification, how is it supposed to be pronounced? Par-LAY or Par-LER
Nah-tsee
posted by aspersioncast at 8:09 PM on January 8, 2021 [98 favorites]
Nah-tsee
posted by aspersioncast at 8:09 PM on January 8, 2021 [98 favorites]
The President of the United States has been permanently banned from Twitter for repeatedly breaking the TOS against violence.
The President of the United States, who has the world's most powerful bully pulpit and can hold a major nationwide press conference at any time, is spending his Friday evening hamfistedly trying to evade that ban and being blocked at every step by (presumably) anonymous interns.
The PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES, during a GLOBAL PANDEMIC, has tried to whine-tweet about the banhammer from FIVE DIFFERENT ACCOUNTS, all of them *poofed* within minutes.
A senior campaign staffer (to the COMMANDER IN CHIEF) changed his avatar and display name to the President's for him to use. Then publicly tweeted it to another staffer instead of walking down the hall (of the G*DDAMNED WEST WING of the WHITE HOUSE in WASHINGTON D.C.)... and was summarily banned.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is fighting a TWITTER BAN harder than the CORONAVIRUS
I know there was an attempted coup a few days ago, and the man still has the nuclear codes, and the world is terrifying, but maybe that explains why I can barely type this from laughing so goddamn hard.
posted by Rhaomi at 8:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [177 favorites]
The President of the United States, who has the world's most powerful bully pulpit and can hold a major nationwide press conference at any time, is spending his Friday evening hamfistedly trying to evade that ban and being blocked at every step by (presumably) anonymous interns.
The PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES, during a GLOBAL PANDEMIC, has tried to whine-tweet about the banhammer from FIVE DIFFERENT ACCOUNTS, all of them *poofed* within minutes.
A senior campaign staffer (to the COMMANDER IN CHIEF) changed his avatar and display name to the President's for him to use. Then publicly tweeted it to another staffer instead of walking down the hall (of the G*DDAMNED WEST WING of the WHITE HOUSE in WASHINGTON D.C.)... and was summarily banned.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is fighting a TWITTER BAN harder than the CORONAVIRUS
I know there was an attempted coup a few days ago, and the man still has the nuclear codes, and the world is terrifying, but maybe that explains why I can barely type this from laughing so goddamn hard.
posted by Rhaomi at 8:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [177 favorites]
I'm enjoying the sudden wave of deplatforming &c but it feels like just a matter of time before AOC gets her magic lasso around Elon Musk's ankle and makes us all take our wishes back.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 8:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 8:12 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
The people who created Parler intended for it to be pronounced "par-LAY", as it was indeed named after the French verb "to talk". However, a majority of the users didn't know that and have been calling it "PAR-ler".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
He also tried tweeting from @TheDonaldDotWin.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
MrGuilt, I'm so sorry. Ugh, that was gross of me. I get flip when I'm tired and, for the third night, I seem to be doomscrolling until I start nodding. I think I will get to bed early.
Not sure why McConnell's obstructing. He loathes Trump by now. I read (but can't cite) that he never wants to talk to Trump again.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Not sure why McConnell's obstructing. He loathes Trump by now. I read (but can't cite) that he never wants to talk to Trump again.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'm just now realizing that this is the long-awaited twitter meltdown.
posted by glonous keming at 8:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by glonous keming at 8:15 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
maybe that explains why I can barely type this from laughing so goddamn hard.
My reaction is more SMH than LOL, TBH.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:15 PM on January 8, 2021
My reaction is more SMH than LOL, TBH.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:15 PM on January 8, 2021
>The Dems won the Senate, giving them the trifecta
I was musing about this yesterday; I'm a Gen Xer and since 1968 the Dems have had the trifecta for 8 of these 40+ years: 1977-1980, 1993-94, 2009-2010
GOP had it 2003-2006 ("hey let's invade Iraq, it'll be a cakewalk!") & 2017-2018 ("everybody gets tax cuts, the deficit doesn't matter on our watch!"). . .
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
I was musing about this yesterday; I'm a Gen Xer and since 1968 the Dems have had the trifecta for 8 of these 40+ years: 1977-1980, 1993-94, 2009-2010
GOP had it 2003-2006 ("hey let's invade Iraq, it'll be a cakewalk!") & 2017-2018 ("everybody gets tax cuts, the deficit doesn't matter on our watch!"). . .
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
TL/DR: Mitch’s obstruction game is strong.
I don't care.
The point is not to succeed in cutting his term short at this point, though if something can cut it short, that would be a godsend. The point is to be in plain view, condemning what has happened and declaring: This will not stand, and forcing those on the other side to go on record defending who he is and what he and his mob have done.
The point is for Democrats to thunder into microphones that the only choice is to vote to condemn sedition -- or to embrace it. And if it is after January 20th, it is to embrace sedition after its ringleader has left office and their implicit loyalty to him has ended.
And if Dems won't shout that at the top of their lungs, they need to go, too.
posted by delfin at 8:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [47 favorites]
I don't care.
The point is not to succeed in cutting his term short at this point, though if something can cut it short, that would be a godsend. The point is to be in plain view, condemning what has happened and declaring: This will not stand, and forcing those on the other side to go on record defending who he is and what he and his mob have done.
The point is for Democrats to thunder into microphones that the only choice is to vote to condemn sedition -- or to embrace it. And if it is after January 20th, it is to embrace sedition after its ringleader has left office and their implicit loyalty to him has ended.
And if Dems won't shout that at the top of their lungs, they need to go, too.
posted by delfin at 8:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [47 favorites]
I heard he’s currently looking into courier pigeon and semaphore communication options (though his insistence on using confederate flags for that is a roadblock). Interpretative dance Tik-toks also being considered.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 8:16 PM on January 8, 2021
posted by inflatablekiwi at 8:16 PM on January 8, 2021
As a perfect B-plot, while this absurdity is going on the brain trust at TheDonald is trying to recover from the removal of Parler from the App Store by teaching each other how to manually install it as a progressive web app. Except now they're super suspicious that this very common webdev term contains the word "progressive."
posted by Rhaomi at 8:17 PM on January 8, 2021 [42 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 8:17 PM on January 8, 2021 [42 favorites]
"Except now they're super suspicious that this very common webdev term contains the word 'progressive.'"
That's like when people get mad at the term "homo sapien"
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 8:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
That's like when people get mad at the term "homo sapien"
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 8:19 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
"Mr President, if we can get these thought control chips into everyone's arms before inauguration day they will rally to your cause when you press this button! All you have to do is step up the vaccination program..."
posted by thatwhichfalls at 8:20 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by thatwhichfalls at 8:20 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
I was thinking more about how, in yesterday's thread, cashman talked about their religious family members, and the media, leap-frogging over actually talking about racism and white supremacy and other horrible things and
I replied by saying that in similar situations I remark that loving your enemy does not mean that they stop being your enemy or that you let them commit genocide or do other bad things; and that allowing someone to commit genocide or overthrow a democratic government is not an expression of love.
The further thought this brought up is how Nazi German SS troopers who murdered Jews developed psychological problems. It's not just a platitude; unless you're a sociopath then doing evil really, actually does fuck you up morally and psychologically, even if intellectually or peer-pressuratively you've decided that murder or genocide or fascist dictatorship is the objectively or subjectively best thing, and so stopping your enemy from doing evil things is genuinely the best way to love them.
The ostensibly-idealistic bad guy Thanos in the MCU crying as he's murdering people (like his own adopted daughter... later deus ex machina resurrected yay no consequences) and committing genocide to stop Malthusian blah blah blah, because it hurts him more than it hurts them, is sort of a caricature of this principle, since it has to be super-over-hyped and exaggerated to have emotional impact and character depth for the modern blockbuster-moviegoing psyche.
I also constantly think of the Human Rights Watch 2019 report of a tear-down of a government phone app used by Chinese state security forces in Xinjiang province in the course of the Uyghur genocide, from which it's clear that every minute action of front-line génocidaires is scrutinized and measured like those of a Walmart cashier, plus they also have to physically confront and do violence to the victims and other “law enforced” people and personally be the hands committing the genocide.
And right now, of course, as a nation we are reaping what we have sown again and again, because we damaged ourselves morally and psychologically through being the democratic leader of the “Free World” fomenting and funding right-wing terrorism, overthrowing democratically-elected governments to ensure that no variation of communism could be freely chosen nor any “American interest” opposed, and by doing things like put monarchs such as the Shah of Iran in power, and then selling weapons to both sides of the Iran-Iraq War while funding and training Nicaraguan death squads in the same transaction.
So rung by rung we are slipping lower on the ladder of what America could be, and it is the best way to love our fellow citizens and fœderati, even our political opponents, by doing whatever it takes to stop the country from slipping to the next lower rung. Because even if they think they want to live in an America with a resurgence of concentration camps or lynchings, or what some of them may or may not imagine to be non-lynching hangings and beheadings with the scaffolds they set up at their little 1776 parties on Wednesday, they don't, and if they find themselves there they'll regret it: it really actually is the all-around best thing for us, for their potential victims, and for them, for us to do whatever it takes to stop the leopards from eating their faces.
posted by XMLicious at 8:20 PM on January 8, 2021 [62 favorites]
when they encounter evil, they try to see the god in people, their humanityand
appeal to their humanity and give them credit for any little thing they've done(I may be paraphrasing incorrectly, go ahead and read what they wrote if your browser can handle another ~1.4 kilocomment thread.)
I replied by saying that in similar situations I remark that loving your enemy does not mean that they stop being your enemy or that you let them commit genocide or do other bad things; and that allowing someone to commit genocide or overthrow a democratic government is not an expression of love.
The further thought this brought up is how Nazi German SS troopers who murdered Jews developed psychological problems. It's not just a platitude; unless you're a sociopath then doing evil really, actually does fuck you up morally and psychologically, even if intellectually or peer-pressuratively you've decided that murder or genocide or fascist dictatorship is the objectively or subjectively best thing, and so stopping your enemy from doing evil things is genuinely the best way to love them.
The ostensibly-idealistic bad guy Thanos in the MCU crying as he's murdering people (like his own adopted daughter... later deus ex machina resurrected yay no consequences) and committing genocide to stop Malthusian blah blah blah, because it hurts him more than it hurts them, is sort of a caricature of this principle, since it has to be super-over-hyped and exaggerated to have emotional impact and character depth for the modern blockbuster-moviegoing psyche.
I also constantly think of the Human Rights Watch 2019 report of a tear-down of a government phone app used by Chinese state security forces in Xinjiang province in the course of the Uyghur genocide, from which it's clear that every minute action of front-line génocidaires is scrutinized and measured like those of a Walmart cashier, plus they also have to physically confront and do violence to the victims and other “law enforced” people and personally be the hands committing the genocide.
And right now, of course, as a nation we are reaping what we have sown again and again, because we damaged ourselves morally and psychologically through being the democratic leader of the “Free World” fomenting and funding right-wing terrorism, overthrowing democratically-elected governments to ensure that no variation of communism could be freely chosen nor any “American interest” opposed, and by doing things like put monarchs such as the Shah of Iran in power, and then selling weapons to both sides of the Iran-Iraq War while funding and training Nicaraguan death squads in the same transaction.
So rung by rung we are slipping lower on the ladder of what America could be, and it is the best way to love our fellow citizens and fœderati, even our political opponents, by doing whatever it takes to stop the country from slipping to the next lower rung. Because even if they think they want to live in an America with a resurgence of concentration camps or lynchings, or what some of them may or may not imagine to be non-lynching hangings and beheadings with the scaffolds they set up at their little 1776 parties on Wednesday, they don't, and if they find themselves there they'll regret it: it really actually is the all-around best thing for us, for their potential victims, and for them, for us to do whatever it takes to stop the leopards from eating their faces.
posted by XMLicious at 8:20 PM on January 8, 2021 [62 favorites]
You'd think a billionaire family could afford a web hosting account that provides its own IP address. TLDs are censored because there's nothing good in sending them traffic either.
You are reverse looking up a CloudFlare IP address. Not to get into all the technical details, but you might as well be saying Person A is as bad as Person B because they both live in domiciles that include indoor plumbing.
posted by sideshow at 8:22 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
You are reverse looking up a CloudFlare IP address. Not to get into all the technical details, but you might as well be saying Person A is as bad as Person B because they both live in domiciles that include indoor plumbing.
posted by sideshow at 8:22 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
McConnell floats memo on procedures for second impeachment.
As much as I'd like to see Trump removed from office before Jan. 20, there's also a part of me that would relish the trial of Donald Trump being presided over by Kamala Harris.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:22 PM on January 8, 2021 [25 favorites]
"What’s unclear is whether Chief Justice John Roberts would preside over the trial because Trump will no longer be president of the United States at 1 p.m. Jan. 20, the earliest a trial could start without consent from all 100 senators."The point being that the Constitution prescribes that the CJ presides only in Senate trials of the President. In impeachment trials for anyone else, the usual Senate presiding officer (the Vice President, or in their absence, the President Pro Tem) presides over the trial.
As much as I'd like to see Trump removed from office before Jan. 20, there's also a part of me that would relish the trial of Donald Trump being presided over by Kamala Harris.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:22 PM on January 8, 2021 [25 favorites]
That's like when people get mad at the term "homo sapien"
Or someone who gets mad about "forced diversity" in a comment thread about morphological diversity among insects.
This is a thing I saw once.
posted by brundlefly at 8:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
Or someone who gets mad about "forced diversity" in a comment thread about morphological diversity among insects.
This is a thing I saw once.
posted by brundlefly at 8:24 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
yeah, he's a twit. Access to the world's stage and nada. thought that last night, if he were to use his offical lines of communication, a charge of treason would likely follow, unless he cried, apologized, resigned, gave all his money away...Naw, I think he's on lockdown.
posted by clavdivs at 8:27 PM on January 8, 2021
posted by clavdivs at 8:27 PM on January 8, 2021
It's wild that so many of us even now, see no danger and are yukking it up because this madman got his twitter account suspended.
These two things are not mutually inclusive.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [42 favorites]
These two things are not mutually inclusive.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [42 favorites]
Right now I wish I had a Teamsters sound truck to park near the White House.
Got a delicious Songbird & Randy Rainbow playlist..
posted by ocschwar at 8:31 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Got a delicious Songbird & Randy Rainbow playlist..
posted by ocschwar at 8:31 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
I think the tone tonight is just a release valve. It’s the uneasy laugh you make after the jump scare in a slasher movie, knowing full well that it’s going to be pure ugly from here on out, even after the credits roll.
posted by mochapickle at 8:31 PM on January 8, 2021 [75 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 8:31 PM on January 8, 2021 [75 favorites]
Yeah I am frankly fucking terrified and also finding a lot of this hilarious. And I'm about 6 miles from the Capitol building.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:33 PM on January 8, 2021 [41 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 8:33 PM on January 8, 2021 [41 favorites]
"Victory at Sea”, Al.
posted by clavdivs at 8:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 8:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think the tone tonight is just a release valve. It’s the uneasy laugh you make after the jump scare in a slasher movie, knowing full well that it’s going to be pure ugly from here on out, even after the credits roll.
^^^ 100% this.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 8:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [21 favorites]
^^^ 100% this.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 8:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [21 favorites]
For myself, humor is a coping mechanism. Don't think for once that I've been smiling while typing out my jokes. They're all, "this is so horrible and so absurd and how the fuck is this happening what the fuck is this new nonsense oh my god did they really say that ok that's bizarre and funny and I have to make a joke to keep from crying and panicking." There's a reason it's called "gallows humor." We're not yukking it up. We're keeping ourselves alive.
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 8:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [32 favorites]
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 8:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [32 favorites]
Laughter is also cathartic and a common response to highly charged, stressful situations.
There is no need to tone police.
posted by Ahmad Khani at 8:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [71 favorites]
There is no need to tone police.
posted by Ahmad Khani at 8:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [71 favorites]
> The people who created Parler intended for it to be pronounced "par-LAY", as it was indeed named after the French verb "to talk". However, a majority of the users didn't know that and have been calling it "PAR-ler".
It's pronounced with a trailing "r" mostly out of contempt for the French rather than ignorance.
posted by at by at 8:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
It's pronounced with a trailing "r" mostly out of contempt for the French rather than ignorance.
posted by at by at 8:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'm wondering how many TV networks have received calls today about airing a Special Presidential Address this weekend and decided not to pre-empt their karaoke contest show for it. I assume that it's happened, as I am probably not smarter than the entire loyal White House staff, and further that everyone took a pass, because Fox hasn't announced anything.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:40 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
>
Ah, this does not seem accurate to me. The first thing that comes to mind is J. P. Morgan—not the bank, the individual person John Pierpont Morgan—keeping the US Treasury afloat through what was essentially a personal loan of specie. (¡Free Silver!) Also, as clawsoon says, Rosebud.
After white supremacy, a sort of East India Company transformed into a ubiquitous omnipresence of industrial and corporate interests in society is #2 on the list of American values.
>
No! Not Rush Hudson Limbaugh III, 2020 Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient!
>
Aww no fun
posted by XMLicious at 8:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
It is fascinating to see a private corporation playing such an enormous role in the political sphere. I can't think of another time in U.S. history when this was the case.
Ah, this does not seem accurate to me. The first thing that comes to mind is J. P. Morgan—not the bank, the individual person John Pierpont Morgan—keeping the US Treasury afloat through what was essentially a personal loan of specie. (¡Free Silver!) Also, as clawsoon says, Rosebud.
After white supremacy, a sort of East India Company transformed into a ubiquitous omnipresence of industrial and corporate interests in society is #2 on the list of American values.
>
Rush Limbaugh’s Twitter account has been deactivated
No! Not Rush Hudson Limbaugh III, 2020 Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient!
>
Twitter confirmed to USA TODAY that the account wasn't suspended but "deactivated by the owner."
Aww no fun
posted by XMLicious at 8:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Everyone: Impeach!
McConnell: but what if we ...didn’t?
McConnell’s memo notes that the Senate, which is scheduled to hold pro-forma sessions until Jan. 19, the day before Biden is to take the oath of office, cannot conduct any business during those pro-forma meetings without unanimous consent.
The GOP leader notes that would preclude the Senate from acting on any articles of impeachment received from the House until Biden is president, raising an implicit question about the point of such an exercise.
“It would require the consent of all 100 senators to conduct any business of any kind during the scheduled pro forma sessions prior to January 19, and therefore the consent of all 100 senators to begin acting on any articles of impeachment during those sessions,” the memo states.
posted by Jawn at 8:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
McConnell: but what if we ...didn’t?
McConnell’s memo notes that the Senate, which is scheduled to hold pro-forma sessions until Jan. 19, the day before Biden is to take the oath of office, cannot conduct any business during those pro-forma meetings without unanimous consent.
The GOP leader notes that would preclude the Senate from acting on any articles of impeachment received from the House until Biden is president, raising an implicit question about the point of such an exercise.
“It would require the consent of all 100 senators to conduct any business of any kind during the scheduled pro forma sessions prior to January 19, and therefore the consent of all 100 senators to begin acting on any articles of impeachment during those sessions,” the memo states.
posted by Jawn at 8:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
To quote Senator Collins: I think Trump has learned his lesson.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
agreed.
remember, no matter how nuts this is, every action he makes at this point corners him more. The impeachment articles are being drawn, and unlike last time, this time, actual R congresscritter lives were threatened. He's been officially deplatformed, along with the main lines of communications the Nazis have. Now, we have to keep up the pressure on our congresscritters (i'm writing mine right now, even though Debbie Lesko is a fucking monster). The more pressure is put on them from constituents to impeach, convict, and then prevent this orange haired douchefuck from ever holding office again, the more likely we are to see R defections.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 8:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
remember, no matter how nuts this is, every action he makes at this point corners him more. The impeachment articles are being drawn, and unlike last time, this time, actual R congresscritter lives were threatened. He's been officially deplatformed, along with the main lines of communications the Nazis have. Now, we have to keep up the pressure on our congresscritters (i'm writing mine right now, even though Debbie Lesko is a fucking monster). The more pressure is put on them from constituents to impeach, convict, and then prevent this orange haired douchefuck from ever holding office again, the more likely we are to see R defections.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 8:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
Well, it's just further proof they are still more concerned about the future of the party over the future of the country and are kindly concerned with how Trump's downfall will look in the history books.
You chose poorly you fuckwit.
posted by deadaluspark at 8:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
You chose poorly you fuckwit.
posted by deadaluspark at 8:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Grindr is trending on my twitter; do they have one to many messaging?
posted by Mitheral at 8:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 8:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
I think the tone tonight is just a release valve. It’s the uneasy laugh you make after the jump scare in a slasher movie, knowing full well that it’s going to be pure ugly from here on out, even after the credits roll.
For sure. Everything about the megathreads from joking to doomsaying to obsessively following minute details of every single story to presenting our theories about why we're so certain things work this way (until like 6 hours later when we've got another theory) to sniping at each other is all about coping with these four years and change of horrible things lurking just around the corner.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [16 favorites]
For sure. Everything about the megathreads from joking to doomsaying to obsessively following minute details of every single story to presenting our theories about why we're so certain things work this way (until like 6 hours later when we've got another theory) to sniping at each other is all about coping with these four years and change of horrible things lurking just around the corner.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [16 favorites]
However, a majority of the users didn't know that and have been calling it "PAR-ler".
I assumed it was that because (A) I can't imagine a bunch of MAGA types pronouncing it in French, and (B) the precedent set by Twitter, Flickr, Tumblr, Grindr, Pixlr, Dopplr, etc.
posted by Foosnark at 8:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
I assumed it was that because (A) I can't imagine a bunch of MAGA types pronouncing it in French, and (B) the precedent set by Twitter, Flickr, Tumblr, Grindr, Pixlr, Dopplr, etc.
posted by Foosnark at 8:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
On the sudden avalanche of tech companies blocking and pulling plugs on the Trumpster Fire: I'm starting to wonder if the FBI went to Big Tech and said they need to act. Or, given the amount of stuff the tech companies can see when they care to look, it may alternately be the other way around. The coincidence of this happening while there's an increase of calls for violence can't be ignored or dismissed. (Apologies if this has already been said & discussed, I know it's not rocket science.)
I absolutely think social media & others are doing this to show they don't need to be regulated (ha ha, right), but I also think this is probably some very active effort to put firehoses into action, too.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:51 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
I absolutely think social media & others are doing this to show they don't need to be regulated (ha ha, right), but I also think this is probably some very active effort to put firehoses into action, too.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:51 PM on January 8, 2021 [15 favorites]
Yes, everything is horrible and he still has all the power in the world and nobody is going to stop him from wreaking havoc if he wants to....but for once, something "bad" happened to him that bothers him. That may be the worst thing EVER that happens to him since I think odds are nil that he'll ever suffer anything worse than losing an election and having Twitter taken away from him. (Sadly, catching the virus didn't count.) Those two things may be the only punishment this Karma Houdini ever gets in the world.
The Twitter ban (and it's actually effective! They are banning everything he tries!) may be a small thing, BUT I'M GONNA FUCKING ENJOY THIS WIN, TINY AS IT IS. Happy schaudenfreude night, everyone. Can we make this a holiday?
Also, as long as he's distracted trying to get back onto Twitter...y'know, let's keep the whack a mole going.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [39 favorites]
The Twitter ban (and it's actually effective! They are banning everything he tries!) may be a small thing, BUT I'M GONNA FUCKING ENJOY THIS WIN, TINY AS IT IS. Happy schaudenfreude night, everyone. Can we make this a holiday?
Also, as long as he's distracted trying to get back onto Twitter...y'know, let's keep the whack a mole going.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [39 favorites]
Well I predicted this fucker would still be tweeting long after he left office, so maybe I should revisit that Politico failed predictions thread from oh god was it only last week oh fuck time is broken where is my mask (descend into zalgoscript).
posted by aspersioncast at 8:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 8:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
Olivia Nuzzi
@Olivianuzzi
Senior Trump admin official: “The legacy of the Trump administration is going to be that the president sparked an insurrection and people died because he tried his best to not abide by the Constitution... Nothing else is even going to be a side note.”
posted by jgirl at 8:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [52 favorites]
If you haven't already been checking @parlertakes on twitter, you might wish to. From what I can gather there, Trump is actively using Parler now (or at least someone claiming to be him). Apparently the web browser version works better than the app version. Can a tech person explain how, if an app is no longer supported by apple/googleplay, what recourse is there for the browser version?
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 8:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 8:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm sure it will go down in history with the Confederacy, Nazism, Communism, and the metric system as things that the United States defeated and which will never rear their ugly heads again.
Uh, one of those things is not like the others.
mhum, his tweets were already archived.
Out of band archives don't help for inline quotes/responses to Trump tweets. All that shows up is "This tweet is unavailable". That would be the benefit of bringing his account back in six months or whatever after the tweets aren't temporally relevant.
It is fascinating to see a private corporation playing such an enormous role in the political sphere. I can't think of another time in U.S. history when this was the case.
Fox News - remember before they pissed him off people would get on the Fox morning show just to pitch policy to Trump.
Standard Oil
"Hannity tonight devoted an entire segment of his show to trying to debunk a satirical tweet alleging he lost his lifetime pasta pass at Olive Garden "
Is it the existence of the card or the loss thereof that he is debunking?
You think he's writing those autographs himself, rather than having copies of his signature printed and pasted in?
I'd say autopen but those are kinda spendy so there is probably some poor unpaid intern signing them by hand.
posted by Mitheral at 8:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
Uh, one of those things is not like the others.
mhum, his tweets were already archived.
Out of band archives don't help for inline quotes/responses to Trump tweets. All that shows up is "This tweet is unavailable". That would be the benefit of bringing his account back in six months or whatever after the tweets aren't temporally relevant.
It is fascinating to see a private corporation playing such an enormous role in the political sphere. I can't think of another time in U.S. history when this was the case.
Fox News - remember before they pissed him off people would get on the Fox morning show just to pitch policy to Trump.
Standard Oil
"Hannity tonight devoted an entire segment of his show to trying to debunk a satirical tweet alleging he lost his lifetime pasta pass at Olive Garden "
Is it the existence of the card or the loss thereof that he is debunking?
You think he's writing those autographs himself, rather than having copies of his signature printed and pasted in?
I'd say autopen but those are kinda spendy so there is probably some poor unpaid intern signing them by hand.
posted by Mitheral at 8:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
If Trump wants to spend his Friday night playing whackamole against Twitter, that's one more night shaved off the clock with him not doing something more dangerous.
It's not perfect, but I'll take it. And yeah, it is funny.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [38 favorites]
It's not perfect, but I'll take it. And yeah, it is funny.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [38 favorites]
Senior Trump Administration Official should uh maybe rank hundreds of thousands dead at at least "side note" level
posted by jason_steakums at 8:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [33 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 8:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [33 favorites]
what recourse is there for the browser version?
The site is hosted using Amazon Web Services, and could be shut down.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
The site is hosted using Amazon Web Services, and could be shut down.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
The browser version should work fine, if one exists. When Tumblr was removed from Apple, you could still use it through a web browser, although "browser tumblr on a phone" is a horrible experience.
Apps removed from Google Play can still be sideloaded to Android systems... if you trust the source.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
Apps removed from Google Play can still be sideloaded to Android systems... if you trust the source.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
...they are still more concerned about the future of the party over the future of the country and are kindly concerned with how Trump's downfall will look in the history books.
It will probably look something like,
美国将阴茎击落，结束了。posted by XMLicious at 9:00 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
if an app is no longer supported by apple/googleplay, what recourse is there for the browser version?
Well it's just a web page. Unless Apple/Google want to get into the DNS blocking game it'll resolve like any other web page. I don't use any web site apps (facebook/imgur/reddit/etc.) instead just using the web interfaces via Firefox on Android. And the web hosting company can also shut them down.
posted by Mitheral at 9:01 PM on January 8, 2021
Well it's just a web page. Unless Apple/Google want to get into the DNS blocking game it'll resolve like any other web page. I don't use any web site apps (facebook/imgur/reddit/etc.) instead just using the web interfaces via Firefox on Android. And the web hosting company can also shut them down.
posted by Mitheral at 9:01 PM on January 8, 2021
>if an app is no longer supported by apple/googleplay, what recourse is there for the browser version
the phone apps are often "browser versions" packaged into an app via various methods.
As above, what matters is the Amazon-hosted server these Parler apps are talking to.
Note that Parler.app is still available on my iPhone's AppStore as I write this.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 9:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
the phone apps are often "browser versions" packaged into an app via various methods.
As above, what matters is the Amazon-hosted server these Parler apps are talking to.
Note that Parler.app is still available on my iPhone's AppStore as I write this.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 9:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
but the backdrops peel and the sets give way
and the cast is eaten by the play.
posted by vrakatar at 9:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
and the cast is eaten by the play.
posted by vrakatar at 9:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
> From what I can gather there, Trump is actively using Parler now (or at least someone claiming to be him).
The screenshot is of a Parler account called @theDonaldJTrump saying "Now that I have been UNFAIRLY removed from Twitter, I will incite my next riots from here on PARLER!"
My money's on satire... but people there are liking it all the same, so how much does it matter?
posted by reductiondesign at 9:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
The screenshot is of a Parler account called @theDonaldJTrump saying "Now that I have been UNFAIRLY removed from Twitter, I will incite my next riots from here on PARLER!"
My money's on satire... but people there are liking it all the same, so how much does it matter?
posted by reductiondesign at 9:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
Yeah, Apple hasn't yanked the iphone version yet, they gave a 24-hour ultimatum to install proper moderation or else.
posted by rifflesby at 9:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by rifflesby at 9:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
I just glad an adult is going to be president.
future of the party over the future of the country
for example Devos resignation. I predicted that. I'm sure she's outraged. while the truth maybe rebuilding the party, Alot of Michigan republicans are trumping out and that's just the start.
or
避孕套, '整个手套'.
posted by clavdivs at 9:06 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
future of the party over the future of the country
for example Devos resignation. I predicted that. I'm sure she's outraged. while the truth maybe rebuilding the party, Alot of Michigan republicans are trumping out and that's just the start.
or
避孕套, '整个手套'.
posted by clavdivs at 9:06 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
My letter to my Congresscritters:
***
To Representative Lesko, and Senators Kelly and Sinema,
On January 6th, your lives were threatened as you attempted to count the votes. Regardless of whether you intended to object, or you believed the election fair, your lives were threatened by a mob that was spurned on by the President. This mob
- Overwhelmed Capitol police
- Vandalized the Capitol complex
- Killed at least one Capitol police officer
The mob must be prosecuted, and so must the man who urged his followers to "March down to the capital and be strong", and whose personal attorney gave a speech about "trial by combat" before the mob marched.
They had their trial by combat, and were chased out of DC and into hiding by various law enforcement agencies. However, unless the head of the snake is cut off and prevented from ever holding public office again, your lives - regardless of how often you vote with him or against him - are not safe, because you are democratically elected officials. His followers abhore democracy and rule of the majority, and want to impose minority rule via force.
Do not let yourselves be deceived. I have dealt with people whose narcissism is far less obvious than this man, and the traits were the same - no matter how long you are loyal to the narcissist, the narcissist will dispose of you when they no longer need you. This means your life, as Congresspeople, is in danger, because you are dutifully elected in a democracy. His followers want a dictatorship for life - something our forefathers fought against. They died so we could be free. Their great grandchildren fought in the Civil War against a secession done solely to impose a fascistic form of government.
Do not let their sacrifice be in vain. Do not let yourself be deceived this man has 'learned his lesson'. He is now more dangerous being cornered. Cut off the head of the snake before it bites you, because when it bites next time, there will be more bloodshed.
I implore you three, for the sake of our democracy, impeach, convict, and prevent Donald J Trump from ever holding office again. Please protect yourselves by voting for this and ensuring he cannot access the levers of power again.
The last time he whipped a mob into a frenzy. Please do not give this man an opportunity for a 'next time'.
***
Feel free to use it as a template and modify it to fit your style. Mine can run a little verbose.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 9:07 PM on January 8, 2021 [38 favorites]
***
To Representative Lesko, and Senators Kelly and Sinema,
On January 6th, your lives were threatened as you attempted to count the votes. Regardless of whether you intended to object, or you believed the election fair, your lives were threatened by a mob that was spurned on by the President. This mob
- Overwhelmed Capitol police
- Vandalized the Capitol complex
- Killed at least one Capitol police officer
The mob must be prosecuted, and so must the man who urged his followers to "March down to the capital and be strong", and whose personal attorney gave a speech about "trial by combat" before the mob marched.
They had their trial by combat, and were chased out of DC and into hiding by various law enforcement agencies. However, unless the head of the snake is cut off and prevented from ever holding public office again, your lives - regardless of how often you vote with him or against him - are not safe, because you are democratically elected officials. His followers abhore democracy and rule of the majority, and want to impose minority rule via force.
Do not let yourselves be deceived. I have dealt with people whose narcissism is far less obvious than this man, and the traits were the same - no matter how long you are loyal to the narcissist, the narcissist will dispose of you when they no longer need you. This means your life, as Congresspeople, is in danger, because you are dutifully elected in a democracy. His followers want a dictatorship for life - something our forefathers fought against. They died so we could be free. Their great grandchildren fought in the Civil War against a secession done solely to impose a fascistic form of government.
Do not let their sacrifice be in vain. Do not let yourself be deceived this man has 'learned his lesson'. He is now more dangerous being cornered. Cut off the head of the snake before it bites you, because when it bites next time, there will be more bloodshed.
I implore you three, for the sake of our democracy, impeach, convict, and prevent Donald J Trump from ever holding office again. Please protect yourselves by voting for this and ensuring he cannot access the levers of power again.
The last time he whipped a mob into a frenzy. Please do not give this man an opportunity for a 'next time'.
***
Feel free to use it as a template and modify it to fit your style. Mine can run a little verbose.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 9:07 PM on January 8, 2021 [38 favorites]
I linked the same article above once before, sorry.
It’s been stressful here.
posted by jgirl at 9:08 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
It’s been stressful here.
posted by jgirl at 9:08 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
> Yeah, Apple hasn't yanked the iphone version yet, they gave a 24-hour ultimatum to install proper moderation or else.
I'd like to know what's going to qualify as "proper moderation". Parler isn't working at a scale where they can suddenly hire a moderation team on a Friday evening and have everybody trained and working 24/7 shift rotations by Saturday evening. Yes, there are offshore contractors that can be hired and assigned that quickly, but I'm skeptical Parler has the cash. Pretty sure Apple intends to shut them down tomorrow night, the ultimatum is just a fig leaf.
posted by at by at 9:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'd like to know what's going to qualify as "proper moderation". Parler isn't working at a scale where they can suddenly hire a moderation team on a Friday evening and have everybody trained and working 24/7 shift rotations by Saturday evening. Yes, there are offshore contractors that can be hired and assigned that quickly, but I'm skeptical Parler has the cash. Pretty sure Apple intends to shut them down tomorrow night, the ultimatum is just a fig leaf.
posted by at by at 9:11 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Yeah, Apple hasn't yanked the iphone version yet, they gave a 24-hour ultimatum to install proper moderation or else.
posted by rifflesby at 9:03 PM on January 8 [+] [!]
I freely admit not spending a lot of time creating social media platforms, but developing, deploying, and staffing such a feature on 24 hours notice seems a bit not-doable?
posted by StarkRoads at 9:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by rifflesby at 9:03 PM on January 8 [+] [!]
I freely admit not spending a lot of time creating social media platforms, but developing, deploying, and staffing such a feature on 24 hours notice seems a bit not-doable?
posted by StarkRoads at 9:13 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Published in October of 2016 Robert Strauss' book, Worst. President. Ever.: James Buchanan, the POTUS Rating Game, and the Legacy of the Least of the Lesser Presidents, managed to precede a legacy that would render its title debatable. I wonder if future editions will reflect this in some way or if there might be a sequel in the works as we speak.
posted by Ignorantsavage at 9:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Ignorantsavage at 9:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
The good news is that zip tie guy #1 is not actually ex-military or a cop, just a better cosplayer than usual; he's a bartender. And it appears they may have taken the zip ties from the Capitol police. Or have been given them, which goes back to alarming but because of the USCP cooperation not because of zip-tie guy, who is a bartender.
On the other hand, even if they didn't come with the zip-ties, the fact they picked them up sure does suggest they fit with existing plans to capture Congresspeople. And zip tie guy #2 (previously identified) *is* ex-military.
posted by tavella at 9:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
On the other hand, even if they didn't come with the zip-ties, the fact they picked them up sure does suggest they fit with existing plans to capture Congresspeople. And zip tie guy #2 (previously identified) *is* ex-military.
posted by tavella at 9:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
I wonder if future editions will reflect this in some way or if there might be a sequel in the works as we speak.
Worst President Ever II: Worster Presidenter: The Worstpresidenting
posted by XMLicious at 9:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
My 6 year old daughter was a better liar about how how glue-slime got all over the cat than the dude with the zip ties was about how he came to get them.
posted by sideshow at 9:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [36 favorites]
posted by sideshow at 9:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [36 favorites]
My money's on satire... but people there are liking it all the same, so how much does it matter?
My biggest anxiety right this second is that a whole bunch of wingnuts, provocateurs and sarcastic accounts pretending to be the president will incite the next wave of violence.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
My biggest anxiety right this second is that a whole bunch of wingnuts, provocateurs and sarcastic accounts pretending to be the president will incite the next wave of violence.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:28 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
zip ties
dude has an amazon sales history or card on that purchase, he's going down a lot harder.
posted by j_curiouser at 9:32 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
dude has an amazon sales history or card on that purchase, he's going down a lot harder.
posted by j_curiouser at 9:32 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
Just a polite note that "congresscritter" is dehumanizing. They may be bad and they may be evil but they're people.
posted by uleekunkel at 9:32 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by uleekunkel at 9:32 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
They may be bad and they may be evil but they're people.
Look, I'm having a VERY hard time believing this about the little Goblin that is Ted Cruz.
posted by deadaluspark at 9:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [36 favorites]
Look, I'm having a VERY hard time believing this about the little Goblin that is Ted Cruz.
posted by deadaluspark at 9:34 PM on January 8, 2021 [36 favorites]
I just wish people would stop equating them with reptiles. Reptiles have spines.
posted by philip-random at 9:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 9:38 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
As an example of how out of step we are with the general web. If you link to this thread on Facebook it desperately grabs the the largest image on the page for the preview, cortex's Ha Ha image. [screenshot]
I freely admit not spending a lot of time creating social media platforms, but developing, deploying, and staffing such a feature on 24 hours notice seems a bit not-doable?
It should be noted that Parler does have a moderation system in place (though unlikely the staffing levels to meet Apple/Google requirements). They use it mostly to delete comments/ban users who troll Parler.
posted by Mitheral at 9:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
I freely admit not spending a lot of time creating social media platforms, but developing, deploying, and staffing such a feature on 24 hours notice seems a bit not-doable?
It should be noted that Parler does have a moderation system in place (though unlikely the staffing levels to meet Apple/Google requirements). They use it mostly to delete comments/ban users who troll Parler.
posted by Mitheral at 9:39 PM on January 8, 2021 [6 favorites]
There's actually a picture of a USCP officer with a neon green duffel bag, and a later picture of it half empty with zip ties, so it's not impossible that part is true. It would explain why they were holding bunches of them rather than having them in a pocket or loop attachment.
posted by tavella at 9:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by tavella at 9:43 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
Just a polite note that "congresscritter" is dehumanizing.
Huh I'm sure it's a flawed analogy but this feels a little like when some busybody in Berkeley would yell at me for putting some random small bit of rubbish off the street into their trash bin, the closest trash receptacle.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [29 favorites]
Huh I'm sure it's a flawed analogy but this feels a little like when some busybody in Berkeley would yell at me for putting some random small bit of rubbish off the street into their trash bin, the closest trash receptacle.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [29 favorites]
uleekunkel: "Just a polite note that "congresscritter" is dehumanizing. They may be bad and they may be evil but they're people."
fwiw I always read it as folksy and almost endearing, like calling them "rascals" or "scamps". It conjures up the image of a gruff yet spirited newspaper columnist from the 1970s who is savvy enough to know they'll usually be disappointed by their reps but still genuinely believes in the value of democracy. YMMV
posted by Rhaomi at 9:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [31 favorites]
fwiw I always read it as folksy and almost endearing, like calling them "rascals" or "scamps". It conjures up the image of a gruff yet spirited newspaper columnist from the 1970s who is savvy enough to know they'll usually be disappointed by their reps but still genuinely believes in the value of democracy. YMMV
posted by Rhaomi at 9:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [31 favorites]
I swear to god if this devolves into another argument about people are people so why should it be that you and I should get along so awfully that I will go straight to goddamn bed, which I'm going to do anyway.
(good night y'all, and thanks)
posted by aspersioncast at 9:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [34 favorites]
(good night y'all, and thanks)
posted by aspersioncast at 9:47 PM on January 8, 2021 [34 favorites]
Rush Limbaugh is dying. He is also wealthy. He could leave his job and spending what time he has left with his loved ones in a setting that would keep him comfortable and his guests comfortable too. Palliative care for him. Fine dining for his family. Good weather in some part of the world.
Instead, he's still broadcasting. Because he has no loved ones. All he has is the dittos coming in from callers. For the sake of the dittos, he's willing to continue goading the nation into a civil war.
Narcissism is a powerful drug. I don't understand it, but then again, ASD ensures I never will.
posted by ocschwar at 9:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [45 favorites]
Instead, he's still broadcasting. Because he has no loved ones. All he has is the dittos coming in from callers. For the sake of the dittos, he's willing to continue goading the nation into a civil war.
Narcissism is a powerful drug. I don't understand it, but then again, ASD ensures I never will.
posted by ocschwar at 9:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [45 favorites]
I freely admit not spending a lot of time creating social media platforms, but developing, deploying, and staffing such a feature on 24 hours notice seems a bit not-doable?
When it comes to fascists, it seems hard to give a fuck.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
When it comes to fascists, it seems hard to give a fuck.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
There's actually a picture of a USCP officer with a neon green duffel bag, and a later picture of it half empty with zip ties, so it's not impossible that part is true. It would explain why they were holding bunches of them rather than having them in a pocket or loop attachment.
That is incredibly disturbing and chilling.
posted by glaucon at 9:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
That is incredibly disturbing and chilling.
posted by glaucon at 9:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Did you just put Depeche Mode in my head and then logoff? Goddammit, that’ll be in my brain for days, you monster.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [22 favorites]
I would be willing to stop using the term “congresscritter” for particular people if I was genuinely convinced that a critter-designee was offended by it rather than regarding it as a gender-neutral term of endearment. There are a relatively small finite number of congresscritters, so producing such evidence does not seem like a challenge.
posted by XMLicious at 9:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 9:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
We are all just critters.
Adds some perspective
posted by Windopaene at 9:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
Adds some perspective
posted by Windopaene at 9:52 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
Humans: the rational critter. Or not.
posted by XMLicious at 9:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 9:53 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
What must it be like to be Trump at this moment? Everything you've tried to gain the next 4 years as president has failed. You've already played your last, best, most desperate card, organizing and inciting your base to insurrection, which, had it worked, would have probably seen many if not all Democratic senators and representatives and probably Pence dead and you would have declared martial law, to "restore order", and would have been, effectively, king, but it failed with only 5 casualties (America was so lucky! Five people dying is terrible, but it could have easily been so much worse.) And now you've got eleven days until the Presidential shield preventing indictments drops. State AGs are waiting in the wings with handcuffs at the ready. You haven't got sufficient control of the armed forces to effectively wield miliary power. You might try to slink off into the night and disappear, but you're surrounded by a Secret Service detail that won't let you have a moment alone. WTF do you do next?
Maybe you try to cut some kind of a deal, like Spiro Agnew, to voluntarily resign, in exchange for freedom from prosecution? That'd be what I'd do if I were plopped into this situation. I don't think Trump's ego will permit him to resign though, even under those terms, and I don't see such offers being floated (but, we wouldn't see such offers until they were a fait accompli.)
What are the other desperate moves available? Ask a foreign government for help in exchange for state secrets? What form would that help take? A flight to Russia, exile?
The walls are closing in.
posted by smcameron at 9:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
Maybe you try to cut some kind of a deal, like Spiro Agnew, to voluntarily resign, in exchange for freedom from prosecution? That'd be what I'd do if I were plopped into this situation. I don't think Trump's ego will permit him to resign though, even under those terms, and I don't see such offers being floated (but, we wouldn't see such offers until they were a fait accompli.)
What are the other desperate moves available? Ask a foreign government for help in exchange for state secrets? What form would that help take? A flight to Russia, exile?
The walls are closing in.
posted by smcameron at 9:57 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
The Apple/Google app thing seems a little lame - doesn't pulling the app just mean its not available to new installs? If they revoked the apps dev/app certificate that might be a big-deal. Also people could just goto the mobile version of the website (its what I do for twitter/facebook so as to avoid their apps pulling telemetry from my device) ?
Ideally AWS (or their host, who people seem to think is AWS) would pull their site hosting. Or their DNS registrar would revoke their entry, or their SSLprovider would revoke the site certificate (wouldn't stop the site but it would be completely insecure) and of course if they had a CDN like Akamai or Cloudflare they would get pulled too (Cloudflare front many other odious websites so they seem unlikely to do that).
Regardless, it'll be interesting to see if this big-tech thing spreads or if it will be a localised thing.
posted by phigmov at 9:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Ideally AWS (or their host, who people seem to think is AWS) would pull their site hosting. Or their DNS registrar would revoke their entry, or their SSLprovider would revoke the site certificate (wouldn't stop the site but it would be completely insecure) and of course if they had a CDN like Akamai or Cloudflare they would get pulled too (Cloudflare front many other odious websites so they seem unlikely to do that).
Regardless, it'll be interesting to see if this big-tech thing spreads or if it will be a localised thing.
posted by phigmov at 9:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Mod note: As a courtesy to the next mod on duty I'm going to ask everyone start to restrain your going-off-on-off-topic-tangents impulses, even though it's been a lot of fun reading y'all riffing about Trump being banned from Twitter. Thank you and good night!
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 9:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [26 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 9:58 PM on January 8, 2021 [26 favorites]
Little CongressCritter: I Was So Mad, by Mercer Mayer
posted by clawsoon at 10:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 10:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
The good news is that zip tie guy #1 is not actually ex-military or a cop, just a better cosplayer than usual; he's a bartender.
Do we have a source on this?
posted by corb at 10:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Do we have a source on this?
posted by corb at 10:02 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Ideally AWS (or their host, who people seem to think is AWS) would pull their site hosting.
Not yet. AWS is hideously expensive. Before pulling service, AWS needs to give, um, friends of mine, the time to post lots and lots of video footage on Parler to run up a tab so that Rebecca Mercer's money moves over to Jeff Bezos's bank account.
posted by ocschwar at 10:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
Not yet. AWS is hideously expensive. Before pulling service, AWS needs to give, um, friends of mine, the time to post lots and lots of video footage on Parler to run up a tab so that Rebecca Mercer's money moves over to Jeff Bezos's bank account.
posted by ocschwar at 10:03 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
> The walls are closing in.
Which is why with every late night push notification or WaPo pop-up on my phone for the past few weeks, I've half-expected to see he has escaped earthly justice with a coronary or a massive stroke.
posted by onehalfjunco at 10:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Which is why with every late night push notification or WaPo pop-up on my phone for the past few weeks, I've half-expected to see he has escaped earthly justice with a coronary or a massive stroke.
posted by onehalfjunco at 10:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
@monteiro: This concludes Bean Dad week.
posted by deludingmyself at 10:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [31 favorites]
posted by deludingmyself at 10:10 PM on January 8, 2021 [31 favorites]
I thought it was still Infrastructure Week
posted by jason_steakums at 10:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 10:14 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
I guess Trump’s campaign email provider just cut him off, too?
This is really looking to me (zero pro knowledge) like the FBI or some other feds making a lot of calls. Maybe using words like “liability” and “culpability.”
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
This is really looking to me (zero pro knowledge) like the FBI or some other feds making a lot of calls. Maybe using words like “liability” and “culpability.”
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:21 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
I just wish people would stop equating them with reptiles. Reptiles have spines.
Pretty sure it's a matter of established fact that Ted Cruz is actually three roach-filled skinsuits in a tall overcoat.
posted by flabdablet at 10:22 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
Pretty sure it's a matter of established fact that Ted Cruz is actually three roach-filled skinsuits in a tall overcoat.
posted by flabdablet at 10:22 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
corb, the brief summation is here, the bartender came bit from people scraping his FB, before he deleted it in a panic. The whole set of threads is worth reading if you have time, though. It was amazing to watch it bounce back and forth as people picked up details and went on trawls through pictures and video, or Nashville activists chiming in with pictures from Trumpista demonstrations where he had been.
The full identify of zip tie guy #2 has also been released, in a collaboration with Ronan Farrow's team at the New Yorker. He's retired Air Force Lt. Colonel Larry Brock.
posted by tavella at 10:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [24 favorites]
The full identify of zip tie guy #2 has also been released, in a collaboration with Ronan Farrow's team at the New Yorker. He's retired Air Force Lt. Colonel Larry Brock.
posted by tavella at 10:25 PM on January 8, 2021 [24 favorites]
-The good news is that zip tie guy #1 is not actually ex-military or a cop, just a better cosplayer than usual; he's a bartender.
-Do we have a source on this?
Linked upthread; Twitter, no mainstream news outlets yet. Summary.
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:27 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
-Do we have a source on this?
Linked upthread; Twitter, no mainstream news outlets yet. Summary.
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:27 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
He's retired Air Force Lt. Colonel Larry Brock.
Which means he's almost certainly collecting a military pension. Which means his actions are governed by the UCMJ. Which means he committed treason under military law, the penalty for which is death.
posted by mightygodking at 10:27 PM on January 8, 2021 [42 favorites]
Which means he's almost certainly collecting a military pension. Which means his actions are governed by the UCMJ. Which means he committed treason under military law, the penalty for which is death.
posted by mightygodking at 10:27 PM on January 8, 2021 [42 favorites]
If this was a movie, I would guess that it means the FBI were going to track down all of these people similar to tracking terror cells. I would love to see all these nazis see consequences for planning to overthrow the government. But this is not a movie. Even though arrests are happening, at the moment it's just been those who were physically at the Capitol. How likely is it to spread out to arrests to those who weren't there but were involved via online activities? Perhaps an impossible question to answer at this point but if someone has historical knowledge that could be put to use here, maybe I can get a sense of what might happen in the coming weeks with regard to the FBI and these domestic terrorists.
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 10:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 10:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
maybe the social media whack-a-mole, and behind-the-scenes efforts to dragoon viable twitter credentials out of his remaining cabinet members and/or principal officers of executive departments in the dead of night, will be enough to push more of them into supporting a 25th amendment option. or if not, maybe the next desperate gambit, whatever it may be, will.
it appears (wikipedia, citing 5 usc 101) pompeo, mnuchin, rosen, bernhardt, perdue, ross, scalia, azar, carson, brouilette & wilkie remain (with miller, bradbury, zais and wolf acting). the more who resign, the fewer it takes to get to the majority that amendment requires. as it stands, 6 (or, if acting principal officers count, 8).
pretty sure that, if congress had by law provided such other body to effect the amendment, it would be evident in the public record.
posted by 20 year lurk at 10:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
it appears (wikipedia, citing 5 usc 101) pompeo, mnuchin, rosen, bernhardt, perdue, ross, scalia, azar, carson, brouilette & wilkie remain (with miller, bradbury, zais and wolf acting). the more who resign, the fewer it takes to get to the majority that amendment requires. as it stands, 6 (or, if acting principal officers count, 8).
pretty sure that, if congress had by law provided such other body to effect the amendment, it would be evident in the public record.
posted by 20 year lurk at 10:29 PM on January 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
> pretty sure that, if congress had by law provided such other body to effect the amendment, it would be evident in the public record.
Raskin reintroduces 25th amendment legislation establishing independent commission on presidential capacity.
posted by smcameron at 10:37 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
Raskin reintroduces 25th amendment legislation establishing independent commission on presidential capacity.
posted by smcameron at 10:37 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
Before pulling service, AWS needs to give, um, friends of mine, the time to post lots and lots of video footage on Parler to run up a tab so that Rebecca Mercer's money moves over to Jeff Bezos's bank account.
They'll rack Parler up a bill so big Timnit Gebru will write a paper about it.
...oops, her name gets virtually no search hits on MeFi, so that's too obscure a reference I guess. Timnit Gebru is the (WoC) AI ethicist (specifically “co-leader of Google's Ethical Artificial Intelligence team”, which is consequently neither ethical nor intelligent, discuss...) who was fired from Google last month after she wrote a paper mostly pointing out how n-dimensional language learning models are trained far further than is really necessary—the fireable offense being also measuring how much global heating emissions this causes.
posted by XMLicious at 10:45 PM on January 8, 2021 [19 favorites]
AWS is hideously expensive.
Not really. Most of the websites you visit, including one MetaFilter.com, run on top of AWS.
posted by sideshow at 10:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
Not really. Most of the websites you visit, including one MetaFilter.com, run on top of AWS.
posted by sideshow at 10:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
yeah. raskin rocks (my rep!), but a representative having introduced legislation and "congress by law [having] provide[d]" differ significantly, not least in that, for legislation to become law requires passage in both houses, at least one of which is determinedly in recess until after the inauguration, and then _the_president's_signature_. my point is that it congress has not already, by law, so provided. It's Raining Florence Henderson's idea above is promising, but would still require the senate.
posted by 20 year lurk at 10:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by 20 year lurk at 10:49 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
I would hope that the FBI and other agencies would be, at a minimum, as effective as the vengeful University of Minnesota President, Walter Bruininks. After winning the 2003 national ice hockey tournament students decided to riot. Bruininks, who holds the record for second-largest Walleye caught in the state, made sure that all camera footage was gone over with a fine-tooth comb to expulse students involved in the riot. It took a chunk of time and money but there would be consequences. This was done without OSINT and crowd-sourcing. I would hope that all that black budget gets you better results than a modest midwestern university.
posted by jadepearl at 10:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by jadepearl at 10:50 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
AWS certified it professional here ... AWS is cheap if engineered correctly and horribly cost prohibitive if it's not. Any better on the competency of the parker folks when it comes to efficient systems architecture?
Also AWS inefficiencies would allow for more plausible grift.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 10:51 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
Also AWS inefficiencies would allow for more plausible grift.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 10:51 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
The point with AWS is that because it's designed to handle lightning-strike spikes in traffic or storage with metered billing, unless Parler has calibrated their balance of technical and billing options very finely and planned for all eventualities, it's possible to trigger continuous lightning strikes and set up a sort of “draining Lake Peigneur” effect on their bank accounts.
posted by XMLicious at 10:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 10:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [9 favorites]
@monteiro: This concludes Bean Dad week
@JamesHamblin:: This concludes the first week of 2021.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 10:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
@JamesHamblin:: This concludes the first week of 2021.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 10:59 PM on January 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
Shark Week or Insurrection Week - not sure which pumps up my adrenaline more.
posted by PhineasGage at 11:04 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by PhineasGage at 11:04 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
There's actually a picture of a USCP officer with a neon green duffel bag, and a later picture of it half empty with zip ties, so it's not impossible that part is true. It would explain why they were holding bunches of them rather than having them in a pocket or loop attachment.
That is incredibly disturbing and chilling.
That's actually a relief. If the zip ties were stolen from the USCP in the chaos, that means there was not a premeditated plot where the zip ties were brought in.
posted by ocschwar at 11:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
That is incredibly disturbing and chilling.
That's actually a relief. If the zip ties were stolen from the USCP in the chaos, that means there was not a premeditated plot where the zip ties were brought in.
posted by ocschwar at 11:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [11 favorites]
Maybe we could get one last infrastructure week - to remember the good times.
posted by onehalfjunco at 11:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by onehalfjunco at 11:16 PM on January 8, 2021 [7 favorites]
and then _the_president's_signature_.
Yes, but we know he doesn't read stuff, so there's a still a chance it'd work. We could just slip the bill into a stack of pardons that he's signing.
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
Yes, but we know he doesn't read stuff, so there's a still a chance it'd work. We could just slip the bill into a stack of pardons that he's signing.
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:18 PM on January 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
For fuck's sake, I clicked "The Capitol mob desecrated a historical workplace — and left behind some disturbing artifacts" at the Washington Post (cached link), wanting to read about architecture and art restoration and junk, and this is how it opens: It was after the House had reconvened Wednesday night, and after Rep. Andy Kim (D-N.J.) had voted to certify the Arizona vote for President-elect Joe Biden, that he decided to take a walk. He exited the House chamber through doors with bashed-out glass windows. He walked to the middle of the Rotunda and looked around at the remnants of the riot that had engulfed the Capitol hours earlier. There were American flags and splinters of historic furniture scattered with gloves and cigarette butts and the powdery residue left behind by fire extinguishers. [...] Kim was overwhelmed with sadness at the desecration of what he considers the most beautiful building in the country. “Under that great dome was just ransacked, just garbage and debris everywhere, all of it all over the statues, all over the floor,” he says. “It was really painful to see this room and this building that I love so much hurting.”
So he got a trash bag, and started to pick it up.
Congressman Kim, suit and tie, glasses and mask, on his knees, picking up water bottles, car keys, hate flags, clothes, cigarette butts, the odd piece of body armor. You learn something unspecified but terrible happened to the photo of Rep. John Lewis displayed outside of Rep. Steny Hoyer's office. There's a bust of President Zachary Taylor, "smeared with what appeared to be blood." Metal benches, in pieces. Several historically-significant art pieces, covered in “corrosive gas agent residue,” are headed to the Smithsonian. The body armor bore a manufacturing label only a few weeks old. Kim kept cleaning. He cleaned the Rotunda, Statuary Hall, the crypt. It was 1 a.m. I'm not crying, it's just been raining. On my face. And my neck.
Close: Many members of the Capitol’s janitorial staff are people of color, and it did not go unnoticed by people scrolling through photos of the destruction online that Black and Latino custodians — plus one first-generation Korean American congressman — were the ones picking up a mess left behind by a mostly White group that included, among others, a man carrying a gigantic Confederate flag. That didn’t enter Rep. Kim’s thoughts until later. He thought of his parents, and how they came to this country.
“When I see the Capitol defaced, I see the values and the opportunities that gave my family a chance in this country disrespected,” he says. “This building is bigger than all of us. It deserves our respect.”
AP News: ‘What else could I do?’ NJ Rep. Kim helps clean up Capitol. A University of Chicago graduate and Rhodes Scholar, Kim served from 2013 until 2015 as the Iraq director for the Obama administration’s National Security Council. Before that, he was the Iraq director at the Pentagon within the defense secretary’s office. He also previously served as a civilian adviser to generals David Petraeus and John Allen in Afghanistan. The son of Korean immigrant parents, he became the first Asian American to represent New Jersey in Congress after he was elected in 2018. AP video
NBC: Behind the viral photo of Rep. Andy Kim cleaning up at midnight after riots. “It’s a room that I love so much. ... It pained me so much to see it in this kind of condition,” the New Jersey Democrat said.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [146 favorites]
So he got a trash bag, and started to pick it up.
Congressman Kim, suit and tie, glasses and mask, on his knees, picking up water bottles, car keys, hate flags, clothes, cigarette butts, the odd piece of body armor. You learn something unspecified but terrible happened to the photo of Rep. John Lewis displayed outside of Rep. Steny Hoyer's office. There's a bust of President Zachary Taylor, "smeared with what appeared to be blood." Metal benches, in pieces. Several historically-significant art pieces, covered in “corrosive gas agent residue,” are headed to the Smithsonian. The body armor bore a manufacturing label only a few weeks old. Kim kept cleaning. He cleaned the Rotunda, Statuary Hall, the crypt. It was 1 a.m. I'm not crying, it's just been raining. On my face. And my neck.
Close: Many members of the Capitol’s janitorial staff are people of color, and it did not go unnoticed by people scrolling through photos of the destruction online that Black and Latino custodians — plus one first-generation Korean American congressman — were the ones picking up a mess left behind by a mostly White group that included, among others, a man carrying a gigantic Confederate flag. That didn’t enter Rep. Kim’s thoughts until later. He thought of his parents, and how they came to this country.
“When I see the Capitol defaced, I see the values and the opportunities that gave my family a chance in this country disrespected,” he says. “This building is bigger than all of us. It deserves our respect.”
AP News: ‘What else could I do?’ NJ Rep. Kim helps clean up Capitol. A University of Chicago graduate and Rhodes Scholar, Kim served from 2013 until 2015 as the Iraq director for the Obama administration’s National Security Council. Before that, he was the Iraq director at the Pentagon within the defense secretary’s office. He also previously served as a civilian adviser to generals David Petraeus and John Allen in Afghanistan. The son of Korean immigrant parents, he became the first Asian American to represent New Jersey in Congress after he was elected in 2018. AP video
NBC: Behind the viral photo of Rep. Andy Kim cleaning up at midnight after riots. “It’s a room that I love so much. ... It pained me so much to see it in this kind of condition,” the New Jersey Democrat said.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:41 PM on January 8, 2021 [146 favorites]
Andy Kim’s story resonates with me so much — it felt like our Capitol, the embodiment of democracy, was being defiled. Those images of Congress being trashed made me want to cry as well.
Wednesday must have been traumatic for Congresspeople, especially the ones who care abotu Democracy.
posted by ichomp at 11:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
Wednesday must have been traumatic for Congresspeople, especially the ones who care abotu Democracy.
posted by ichomp at 11:46 PM on January 8, 2021 [14 favorites]
Loved seeing these photos of Kim cleaning. And the emotion behind it is even more heart-breaking. But my first thought when seeing these images was "why aren't you wearing gloves?". Worried he could catch something, or get cut by glass...
posted by greenhornet at 11:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by greenhornet at 11:48 PM on January 8, 2021 [12 favorites]
Yeah, Apple hasn't yanked the iphone version yet, they gave a 24-hour ultimatum to install proper moderation or else.
Not even that. They have 24 hours to have a plan to improve moderation. Even that is a pretty big task for 24 hours, but I don't think Apple is expecting all posts to be moderated by tomorrow.
If I'm Apple, I'll settle for an "immediate improvement" section guaranteeing flag response within a certain time, and post removal guidelines that will be followed, and then a couple more sections for short term and long term actions for a more active surveillance of content that does not wait for flags. With reasonable dates, that I will then hold them to.
On the other hand, I'm not Apple, and maybe it's a CYA exercise just to be able to say they "took action". I doubt that though, because there wasn't even huge pressure on them to do even this, compared to the ban-trump-from-twitter outcry. They just did it.
posted by ctmf at 11:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Not even that. They have 24 hours to have a plan to improve moderation. Even that is a pretty big task for 24 hours, but I don't think Apple is expecting all posts to be moderated by tomorrow.
If I'm Apple, I'll settle for an "immediate improvement" section guaranteeing flag response within a certain time, and post removal guidelines that will be followed, and then a couple more sections for short term and long term actions for a more active surveillance of content that does not wait for flags. With reasonable dates, that I will then hold them to.
On the other hand, I'm not Apple, and maybe it's a CYA exercise just to be able to say they "took action". I doubt that though, because there wasn't even huge pressure on them to do even this, compared to the ban-trump-from-twitter outcry. They just did it.
posted by ctmf at 11:56 PM on January 8, 2021 [2 favorites]
Oh, don't forget to dust off your Hayes Modem and dial into TrumpBBS! 1-900-DJTRUMP! With support up to 9600 baud!
Two bits! No parity!
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
Two bits! No parity!
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
You learn something unspecified but terrible happened to the photo of Rep. John Lewis displayed outside of Rep. Steny Hoyer's office.
Those evil pieces of shit.
posted by supercrayon at 12:10 AM on January 9, 2021 [21 favorites]
Those evil pieces of shit.
posted by supercrayon at 12:10 AM on January 9, 2021 [21 favorites]
Nobody's mentioned Bebo yet.
Or Usenet.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:17 AM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Or Usenet.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:17 AM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Those evil pieces of shit.
...had serious concerns about the orderly removal of confederate statues from public places, one would speculate.
posted by StarkRoads at 12:17 AM on January 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
...had serious concerns about the orderly removal of confederate statues from public places, one would speculate.
posted by StarkRoads at 12:17 AM on January 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
Doubt it was even that deep. Yo, this is that guy Libruls love, let's make them mad for the lolz. Both, of course, but nobody was thinking that hard that day.
posted by ctmf at 12:22 AM on January 9, 2021
posted by ctmf at 12:22 AM on January 9, 2021
I want the confederate coward banner and other traitor garbage given the same legal status as Nazi stuff has in Germany.
posted by maxwelton at 12:22 AM on January 9, 2021 [35 favorites]
posted by maxwelton at 12:22 AM on January 9, 2021 [35 favorites]
Waiting for the ads for the Trump Party Line!!! to appear.
posted by gtrwolf at 12:24 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by gtrwolf at 12:24 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Looking at the cabinet, there are three left of the original line-up of senate confirmed members. Ben Carson, Wilbur Ross and Steve Mnuchin. So a black guy survives this movie, but at the price of his soul.
But man, look at that picture, 14 of 17 didn't last the full term. The Best People, replaced by loyalists without senate confirmation. If staff turnover is a measure of dysfunction, well, tick that box.
posted by adept256 at 12:27 AM on January 9, 2021 [21 favorites]
But man, look at that picture, 14 of 17 didn't last the full term. The Best People, replaced by loyalists without senate confirmation. If staff turnover is a measure of dysfunction, well, tick that box.
posted by adept256 at 12:27 AM on January 9, 2021 [21 favorites]
As a perfect B-plot, while this absurdity is going on the brain trust at TheDonald is trying to recover from the removal of Parler from the App Store by teaching each other how to manually install it as a progressive web app.
Next time: how to avoid tearing the skin off your thumbs when changing the jumpers on your RS-232 card so that you can dial in to TrumpBBS at the correct parity.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:35 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
Next time: how to avoid tearing the skin off your thumbs when changing the jumpers on your RS-232 card so that you can dial in to TrumpBBS at the correct parity.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:35 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
An Air Force Combat Veteran Breached the Senate, New Yorker, Ronan Farrow; January 9, 2021.
Photo: The retired Air Force officer Larry Rendall Brock, Jr., wearing a combat helmet, in the Senate chamber. Photograph by Win McNamee / Getty.
posted by cenoxo at 12:37 AM on January 9, 2021
Photo: The retired Air Force officer Larry Rendall Brock, Jr., wearing a combat helmet, in the Senate chamber. Photograph by Win McNamee / Getty.
posted by cenoxo at 12:37 AM on January 9, 2021
Stop Pretending "This Is Not Who We Are"
(NYTimes Opinion Video; Lindsay Crouse, Adam Westbrook, and Sanya Dosani)
The Eisner-winning cartoonist Roger Langridge made this point two days ago.
And while I'm posting:
It's been said here and elsewhere that a second impeachment would bar Trump from standing for future office. But why would a second impeachment have this effect when the first one didn't? What exactly is it that has to happen to trigger the ban and why would it happen this time round when it didn't before?
posted by Paul Slade at 12:37 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
(NYTimes Opinion Video; Lindsay Crouse, Adam Westbrook, and Sanya Dosani)
The Eisner-winning cartoonist Roger Langridge made this point two days ago.
And while I'm posting:
It's been said here and elsewhere that a second impeachment would bar Trump from standing for future office. But why would a second impeachment have this effect when the first one didn't? What exactly is it that has to happen to trigger the ban and why would it happen this time round when it didn't before?
posted by Paul Slade at 12:37 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Can't resist pointing out that Langridge is a fellow New Zealander, whose work I've been following since student newspapers in the 1980s.
Sorry about Chris Liddell. I'm doing my best to ruin the PR campaign he's running back here in NZ to rehabilitate himself.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:47 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Sorry about Chris Liddell. I'm doing my best to ruin the PR campaign he's running back here in NZ to rehabilitate himself.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:47 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
And to answer your question, it is a successful impeachment that would prevent Trump running again. It is because the first one died in the Senate that a second one might do it... if it doesn't die in the Senate.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:49 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:49 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
second impeachment
It's not that it's the second impeachment, but a successful one would do it. He was acquitted the first time around.
posted by porpoise at 12:50 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
It's not that it's the second impeachment, but a successful one would do it. He was acquitted the first time around.
posted by porpoise at 12:50 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
My apologies to cortex. I just flagged the Nelson Muntz image above without realising it was a moderator who'd posted it. Now let us never speak of this again.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:50 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 12:50 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
Loved seeing these photos of Kim cleaning. And the emotion behind it is even more heart-breaking. But my first thought when seeing these images was "why aren't you wearing gloves?". Worried he could catch something, or get cut by glass...
That and, it seemed weird to me because isn’t this a crime scene? Shouldn’t that stuff be photographed and gathered as evidence? Or maybe I’ve watched too much CSI.
posted by JenMarie at 1:02 AM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
That and, it seemed weird to me because isn’t this a crime scene? Shouldn’t that stuff be photographed and gathered as evidence? Or maybe I’ve watched too much CSI.
posted by JenMarie at 1:02 AM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
That's actually a relief. If the zip ties were stolen from the USCP in the chaos, that means there was not a premeditated plot where the zip ties were brought in.
Even if this is the case, they still picked them up, while hunting elected representatives. Why bother if there was no intention of using them? These are not people who deserve any benefit of the doubt whatsoever at this moment.
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
Even if this is the case, they still picked them up, while hunting elected representatives. Why bother if there was no intention of using them? These are not people who deserve any benefit of the doubt whatsoever at this moment.
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
Pelosi Wants To Prevent "Unhinged" Trump From Launching A Nuclear Strike. Here's The Reality — Presently, there are few roadblocks in place that can prevent a president from launching a nuclear strike., The War Zone, Joseph Trevithick, January 8, 2021.
posted by cenoxo at 1:11 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by cenoxo at 1:11 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
It is very dumb, and everything in the country is still completely nuts, but the permabanning of the President has fundamentally relaxed me in a way that the election of Joe Biden did not.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:12 AM on January 9, 2021 [26 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 1:12 AM on January 9, 2021 [26 favorites]
My apologies to cortex. I just flagged the Nelson Muntz image above without realising it was a moderator who'd posted it. Now let us never speak of this again.
Just hand over the IMG tag and my lips are sealed. Bidding starts in one hour.
posted by cenoxo at 1:16 AM on January 9, 2021
Just hand over the IMG tag and my lips are sealed. Bidding starts in one hour.
posted by cenoxo at 1:16 AM on January 9, 2021
But why would a second impeachment have this effect when the first one didn't?
* loses his 200k+ pension for the rest of his life
* loses his 1 million dollar/year travel allowance
* loses lifetime full secret service detail
* loses his ability to run in 2024
* forces senators to vote in favor of the insurrectionist
Apart from all that, I think you're right he needs to be impeached AND convicted.
posted by adept256 at 1:20 AM on January 9, 2021 [67 favorites]
* loses his 200k+ pension for the rest of his life
* loses his 1 million dollar/year travel allowance
* loses lifetime full secret service detail
* loses his ability to run in 2024
* forces senators to vote in favor of the insurrectionist
Apart from all that, I think you're right he needs to be impeached AND convicted.
posted by adept256 at 1:20 AM on January 9, 2021 [67 favorites]
> It is very dumb, and everything in the country is still completely nuts, but the permabanning of the President has fundamentally relaxed me in a way that the election of Joe Biden did not.The relaxation you feel is the realization that Twitter is more powerful than the Houses of Congress combined.
posted by runcifex at 1:25 AM on January 9, 2021 [30 favorites]
he needs to be impeached AND convicted.
Thank you. That's the point I hadn't grasped.
posted by Paul Slade at 1:36 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Thank you. That's the point I hadn't grasped.
posted by Paul Slade at 1:36 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
The relaxation you feel is the realization that Twitter is more powerful than the Houses of Congress combined.
I thought this earlier today, but I don’t really believe it. Congress can move the machinery of this country, and can wage war, and Twitter just can’t do that. The President could easily get a new policy megaphone by calling into Fox or Newsmax or whatever, or doing an old fashioned press release. It’s just this one particular, stupid channel turned off, this one spigot shut. I’ve had four years of being told that Rs wouldn’t do something because there might be a mesn tweet, and that garbage excuse is gone now. It’s all just suddenly a bit slower. That’s a real change, and one that will produce a thousand ripples but it’s not the same kind of power. One positive impact of the banning (hopefully) is that it will help us to stop mistaking immediate response for meaningful response.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:45 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
I thought this earlier today, but I don’t really believe it. Congress can move the machinery of this country, and can wage war, and Twitter just can’t do that. The President could easily get a new policy megaphone by calling into Fox or Newsmax or whatever, or doing an old fashioned press release. It’s just this one particular, stupid channel turned off, this one spigot shut. I’ve had four years of being told that Rs wouldn’t do something because there might be a mesn tweet, and that garbage excuse is gone now. It’s all just suddenly a bit slower. That’s a real change, and one that will produce a thousand ripples but it’s not the same kind of power. One positive impact of the banning (hopefully) is that it will help us to stop mistaking immediate response for meaningful response.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:45 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
I know this was just answered, but I want it to be super clear because it’s confusing:
The first impeachment was successful. Trump was impeached.
However, that is only the first step to removing him from office. Impeachment results in documents being sent to the Senate, which then holds a trial and either convicts or acquits him. Conviction requires a 2/3 majority vote by the members of the Senate.
Trump was acquitted on a vote along party lines.
If he had been convicted, the Senate could then have voted to prevent him ever holding office again. That would have only required a simple majority.
It is possible, but unlikely, that Trump would be convicted if he were impeached and tried again. Certainly some Republican senators are now very upset with him.
I’m not sure if we have a clear answer on whether or not he can be tried after he leaves office for an impeachment that occurred before he left.
posted by danielparks at 1:49 AM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
The first impeachment was successful. Trump was impeached.
However, that is only the first step to removing him from office. Impeachment results in documents being sent to the Senate, which then holds a trial and either convicts or acquits him. Conviction requires a 2/3 majority vote by the members of the Senate.
Trump was acquitted on a vote along party lines.
If he had been convicted, the Senate could then have voted to prevent him ever holding office again. That would have only required a simple majority.
It is possible, but unlikely, that Trump would be convicted if he were impeached and tried again. Certainly some Republican senators are now very upset with him.
I’m not sure if we have a clear answer on whether or not he can be tried after he leaves office for an impeachment that occurred before he left.
posted by danielparks at 1:49 AM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
A soft impeachment (he gets sedated at Camp David) is not great. It leaves him lots of tools to play with later and allows him to form some sort of Lost Cause Myth of Trumpist. Remember having an exterior force humble the cult leader is one of the things that leads to cult dissolution, when they see the leader can't God his way out of everything.
posted by benzenedream at 1:49 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 1:49 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
I don’t think that it’s all that likely that Trump will get convicted this time either. If he does, the Democrats lose an advantage if he’s banned from running for federal office. As it is the threat of Trump running in 2024 is going to be tearing the Republicans apart for the next four years. If he does run in 2024 I believe that will hand Biden four more years. However, I was wrong about the possibility of him being elected in 2016 and I could be wrong again.
posted by rdr at 1:51 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by rdr at 1:51 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
I also worry that every single one of those young men who invaded the capitol are going to grow up to become Trumpist werewolves now that they've had a taste of success.
posted by benzenedream at 1:51 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 1:51 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
The President could easily get a new policy megaphone by calling into Fox or Newsmax or whatever, or doing an old fashioned press release
Those wouldn't scratch his narcissistic itch the way racking up likes and retweets from Russian bots does.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 1:52 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Those wouldn't scratch his narcissistic itch the way racking up likes and retweets from Russian bots does.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 1:52 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
I want the confederate coward banner and other traitor garbage given the same legal status as Nazi stuff has in Germany.
We can do that, it wouldn't be nothing, but note that the measures East Germany and West Germany took have not been enough, by far. There's a documentary by German public television network ZDF Treffpunkt Kiosk “Meeting Point Kiosk” (½ hr but the English subtitles and audio have been taken down, unfortunately) about the culture of places we might call convenience stores in the U.S. except that some of them serve alcohol and have small spaces to sit down, which when I watched it a couple-three years ago seemed to pretty much all be about white Germans saying extremely racist stuff in front of the frequently PoC, first or second-generation immigrant owners and employees of the establishments, while expecting them to be just fine with it. Also the video from an FPP I made for a documentary a bit less than a year ago, “Back to the Future? - Weimar Today”, about contemporary German politics, is in English and still working.
Similarly, on banning Trump from office by impeachment or other means—remember that it's already in the Fourteenth Amendment that
...so Trump, and all the Putschisten off-duty cops and military who showed their IDs (via the last collapse-megathread), and all the GOP fuckers who openly collaborated, who count as fitting that list of federal and state officers; but within a decade of the end of the Civil War Congress had given most ex-Confederates pardons on this count in exchange for a pinky swear that they didn't mean it and/or note from their mom.No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
So we tried this one already, if we're still playing ancien régime.
(Plus, like, the way this all kinda started—so countless many beginnings—is “Russia if you're listening...” Trump literally committing treason on international television, following the constitutional definition to a T by literally levying fucking war against the United States of America, participating in a Russian military cyberattack against a former Secretary of State explicitly to obtain records from her service to the federal government, and no one did anything.)
Speaking of ancien régime... was there ever any real security/safety reason to not at least allow data URI images of some limited size on MeFi, at least? Pretty please?
It's a brave new world and all, y'know. How many goodly creatures are there here, how beauteous mankind is. We need some gifs of them.
posted by XMLicious at 1:55 AM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
It's really horrifying to see so many people cheering capital for its power to censor people...
Total Black Mirror moment.
posted by - at 2:01 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Total Black Mirror moment.
posted by - at 2:01 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
(sigh) a private company saying they don't want to do business with an individual is not censorship.
posted by valkane at 2:06 AM on January 9, 2021 [139 favorites]
posted by valkane at 2:06 AM on January 9, 2021 [139 favorites]
Do you mean that episode about a goddamn digital clown winning office for being a total asshole on the internet? Good news, that episode just came to an end.
posted by adept256 at 2:08 AM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 2:08 AM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
I mean, Congress has the sole power to declare war and impeach a president, but Twitter has the de facto power to destroy people's mind collectively with impunity. The entities like Google, Amazon, Facebook, and Twitter etc. are already more powerful than most of the nation-states on the earth.
(A derail into the power of surveillance capitalism is how these techbro companies merely lack a navy, and Elon Musk can provide them with one just in time, but let's not go there.)
Just how many autocrat operatives still roam free on social media is not something that I'd be able to estimate. All enabled with state of the art psychological weapons as a service.
"Return on investment for shareholders? We've played our parts in overthrowing democracies and enabling genocides for less."
posted by runcifex at 2:11 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
(A derail into the power of surveillance capitalism is how these techbro companies merely lack a navy, and Elon Musk can provide them with one just in time, but let's not go there.)
Just how many autocrat operatives still roam free on social media is not something that I'd be able to estimate. All enabled with state of the art psychological weapons as a service.
"Return on investment for shareholders? We've played our parts in overthrowing democracies and enabling genocides for less."
posted by runcifex at 2:11 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
If you really think the first time any of these companies have engaged in censorship of free speech is to wound Donald Trump you have really not been paying attention.
You are more likely to be silenced on Twitter for calling someone a Nazi vs being a Nazi and calling for the death of Jews. Silencing the most powerful autocrat in the world is not a free speech problem.
posted by benzenedream at 2:13 AM on January 9, 2021 [63 favorites]
You are more likely to be silenced on Twitter for calling someone a Nazi vs being a Nazi and calling for the death of Jews. Silencing the most powerful autocrat in the world is not a free speech problem.
posted by benzenedream at 2:13 AM on January 9, 2021 [63 favorites]
I'm fine when Metafilter bans people too. And no company is required to be an acomplice to further terrorist attacks.
I mean, what will poor DJT do, with only *three* networks willing to broadcast his every word? The horror!
posted by tavella at 2:17 AM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
I mean, what will poor DJT do, with only *three* networks willing to broadcast his every word? The horror!
posted by tavella at 2:17 AM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
Meanwhile on Scottish Twitter...
@KnutCrosswords
@KnutCrosswords
Ayrshire Hotelier Has a Spot of Bother on Social Mediaposted by Buntix at 2:19 AM on January 9, 2021 [28 favorites]
> The good news is that zip tie guy #1 is not actually ex-military or a cop, just a better cosplayer than usual; he's a bartender. And it appears they may have taken the zip ties from the Capitol police.
The bad news is that his cosplay included a taser and pepper spray.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:19 AM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
The bad news is that his cosplay included a taser and pepper spray.
...Dan Kois - https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/01/was-there-a-plan-for-hostages-or-killings-at-the-capitol.html
These are the same guys who, when the windows of the Capitol were broken and entry secured, went in first with what I’d call military-ish precision. They moved with purpose, to the offices of major figures like Nancy Pelosi and then to the Senate floor. What was that purpose? It wasn’t to pose for photos. It was to use those flex cuffs on someone.
...
They went into the Capitol, as Congress was counting electoral votes, equipped to take hostages—to physically seize officials, and presumably to take lives. The prospect is terrifying. But just because it seems unthinkable doesn’t mean we shouldn’t think hard about what almost happened. Don’t dismiss the zip-tie guys as “LARPers” or “weekend warriors.” First of all, given the well-documented overlap between ex-military, law enforcement, and right-wing militias, it’s entirely possible these guys were weekday warriors using their training in service of extracurricular interests. (One of the Twitter sleuths who are now trying to track them down sure seems to think they’re ex-military.) More importantly, the long awful course of history reminds us how slippery the slope is from playacting as a strike force to actually behaving as a strike force. Once the zip ties go on, it doesn’t matter whether you’re a “real” terrorist or not.
...
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:19 AM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
Well now I've finally heard of #FreetheNipple. This changes everything.
posted by valkane at 2:20 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by valkane at 2:20 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
If the zip ties were stolen from the USCP in the chaos, that means there was not a premeditated plot where the zip ties were brought in.
The flexi-cuff idea was floated before the assault. They're easily available online, but you can't just buy these at Wal-Mart. Buying such a thing is evidence of premeditation. Law enforcement should sort this out, but I'm not going to dismiss this amid a massive amount of pro-lynching propaganda, let alone the gallows they set up. It's like the Gretchen Whitmer kidnap plot: you don't get to say "just kidding" the moment you're caught.
posted by netowl at 2:27 AM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
The flexi-cuff idea was floated before the assault. They're easily available online, but you can't just buy these at Wal-Mart. Buying such a thing is evidence of premeditation. Law enforcement should sort this out, but I'm not going to dismiss this amid a massive amount of pro-lynching propaganda, let alone the gallows they set up. It's like the Gretchen Whitmer kidnap plot: you don't get to say "just kidding" the moment you're caught.
posted by netowl at 2:27 AM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
It's really horrifying to see so many people cheering capital for its power to censor people...
I'm not super happy that our virtual public spaces are owned by corporations with no oversight or accountability -- but, given that they are, I'm at least glad that they decided to take the least-bad option in this case.
I mean, look at it from Twitter's perspective. On Wednesday, Trump's general promotion of lawlessness -- much of which occurred on Twitter -- led to an attack on the US Capitol. People died. And both you and I know that Trump wasn't about to keep quiet, even after that. He's constitutionally incapable of contrition. Likewise, you and I both know that the same sort of people who stormed the Capitol on Wednesday are planning Part 2 on January 20. So if Twitter allowed Trump to keep Tweeting, they could end up on the hook for, say, the assassination of the incoming US President. Given that horrifying possibility, what other reasonable choice is there?
posted by nosewings at 2:27 AM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
I'm not super happy that our virtual public spaces are owned by corporations with no oversight or accountability -- but, given that they are, I'm at least glad that they decided to take the least-bad option in this case.
I mean, look at it from Twitter's perspective. On Wednesday, Trump's general promotion of lawlessness -- much of which occurred on Twitter -- led to an attack on the US Capitol. People died. And both you and I know that Trump wasn't about to keep quiet, even after that. He's constitutionally incapable of contrition. Likewise, you and I both know that the same sort of people who stormed the Capitol on Wednesday are planning Part 2 on January 20. So if Twitter allowed Trump to keep Tweeting, they could end up on the hook for, say, the assassination of the incoming US President. Given that horrifying possibility, what other reasonable choice is there?
posted by nosewings at 2:27 AM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
(sigh) a private company saying they don't want to do business with an individual is not censorship.
Functionally, twitter bans and other social media platform bans are censorship, but by powerful non-state actors, and aren't technically First Amendment infringements. So censorship, but not state censorship.
In this case it happens to be censorship I'm completely in favor of, much like the existing restrictions on neo-Nazis in modern Germany.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:28 AM on January 9, 2021 [23 favorites]
Functionally, twitter bans and other social media platform bans are censorship, but by powerful non-state actors, and aren't technically First Amendment infringements. So censorship, but not state censorship.
In this case it happens to be censorship I'm completely in favor of, much like the existing restrictions on neo-Nazis in modern Germany.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:28 AM on January 9, 2021 [23 favorites]
I'm not weeping over Trump being banned from Twitter or anything, but - is right that “it's not the government, so it's not really censorship” doesn't cut it anymore.
China doesn't have the same concept of freedom of speech, so they don't even bother with the fig leaf, but if they wanted to they could very easily pretend that it's simply the ardent wish of private companies to follow the government's guidelines for administering responsible public discussion which result in what we call censorship there.
It's the same way the US government gets around those pesky constitutional restrictions on dragnet or otherwise-illegal searches: well shucks, private companies all do it, they all conduct constant intrusive ubiquitous automated surveillance of citizens after getting them to press the button on clickwrap contracts and then sell the resulting databases, so the government can't very well just not buy the databases or not get in the game now can they...
posted by XMLicious at 2:32 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
China doesn't have the same concept of freedom of speech, so they don't even bother with the fig leaf, but if they wanted to they could very easily pretend that it's simply the ardent wish of private companies to follow the government's guidelines for administering responsible public discussion which result in what we call censorship there.
It's the same way the US government gets around those pesky constitutional restrictions on dragnet or otherwise-illegal searches: well shucks, private companies all do it, they all conduct constant intrusive ubiquitous automated surveillance of citizens after getting them to press the button on clickwrap contracts and then sell the resulting databases, so the government can't very well just not buy the databases or not get in the game now can they...
posted by XMLicious at 2:32 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
-, if you're ironically parroting slashdot techbro talking points you're not doing a good job at it. If you want to talk about "capital censoring people" maybe start a new FPP about how surveillance companies reinforce white supremacy and marginalize marginalized people by automation.
The fucking digital means of production are still in the hands of people as powerful as Trump or worse. Let's not pretend otherwise.
posted by runcifex at 2:36 AM on January 9, 2021 [48 favorites]
The fucking digital means of production are still in the hands of people as powerful as Trump or worse. Let's not pretend otherwise.
posted by runcifex at 2:36 AM on January 9, 2021 [48 favorites]
If the zip ties were stolen from the USCP in the chaos, that means there was not a premeditated plot where the zip ties were brought in.
Even if it was not premeditated what do you think would have happened if the seditionist mob rounded a corner in the Capitol and ran into Pelosi and her staff?
posted by PenDevil at 2:36 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
Even if it was not premeditated what do you think would have happened if the seditionist mob rounded a corner in the Capitol and ran into Pelosi and her staff?
posted by PenDevil at 2:36 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
I've seen Trump tweets you people wouldn't believe. Covfefe on blast off the West Wing of White House. I watched Q-Anon glitter in the dark near the Capital House. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to switch to Parlor.
posted by srboisvert at 2:43 AM on January 9, 2021 [36 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 2:43 AM on January 9, 2021 [36 favorites]
XMLicious: Speaking of ancien régime... was there ever any real security/safety reason to not at least allow data URI images of some limited size on MeFi, at least?
Most common image formats supported by data URI images allow embedding arbitrary text blocks which can include scripting that will bypass validation, so: probably, yeah.
I was a fly on the wall for the XSS attack proof of concept/demonstration that lead to the img tag getting banned (mathowie would occasionally chat with some of us in the #mefi troll brigade about site security in the early 00s), so I'm 95% certain the original reason wasn't data URI images, but they could still be a feasible attack vector even if the execution is somewhat more complicated than bog-standard XSS. [/derail]
posted by Ryvar at 2:50 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Most common image formats supported by data URI images allow embedding arbitrary text blocks which can include scripting that will bypass validation, so: probably, yeah.
I was a fly on the wall for the XSS attack proof of concept/demonstration that lead to the img tag getting banned (mathowie would occasionally chat with some of us in the #mefi troll brigade about site security in the early 00s), so I'm 95% certain the original reason wasn't data URI images, but they could still be a feasible attack vector even if the execution is somewhat more complicated than bog-standard XSS. [/derail]
posted by Ryvar at 2:50 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
US diplomats draft memo calling on Pompeo to denounce Trump -- CNN
"It is critical that we communicate to the world that in our system, no one -- not even the President -- is above the law or immune from public criticism," the memo states."
posted by valkane at 2:52 AM on January 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
"It is critical that we communicate to the world that in our system, no one -- not even the President -- is above the law or immune from public criticism," the memo states."
posted by valkane at 2:52 AM on January 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
Six Republican lawmakers among rioters as police release photos of wanted -- Independent
"Tennessee state lawmaker Terri Lynn Weaver told the Tennessean that she was “in the thick of it” during the rally before the storming of the Capitol. She said there was “Just a whole heck of a lot of patriots here". She later tweeted a picture of the mob at the base of the Capitol, saying: “Epic and historic day gathering with fellow Patriots from all over the nation DC.”
posted by valkane at 2:56 AM on January 9, 2021 [34 favorites]
"Tennessee state lawmaker Terri Lynn Weaver told the Tennessean that she was “in the thick of it” during the rally before the storming of the Capitol. She said there was “Just a whole heck of a lot of patriots here". She later tweeted a picture of the mob at the base of the Capitol, saying: “Epic and historic day gathering with fellow Patriots from all over the nation DC.”
posted by valkane at 2:56 AM on January 9, 2021 [34 favorites]
This is global versus local optimisation. Globally, sure private companies shouldn't be able to effectively censor people, and the decision of who and what to censor (remember the nymwars?) shouldn't be decided by the war between some techbro's wallet and his conscience. That's a 10 year project at best to improve.
Locally, it's better that the attack is impeded, and I imagine that many a congressperson has already reported that some death threats in her DMs are coming from within DC. If I'm Dorsey, I'm definitely not assuming that every congressperson is going to live through this, and I have a draft of my deposition in development in case it happens.
At the moment, it's fair for people to focus on the immediate response to the ongoing attack until it's over.
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 3:02 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Locally, it's better that the attack is impeded, and I imagine that many a congressperson has already reported that some death threats in her DMs are coming from within DC. If I'm Dorsey, I'm definitely not assuming that every congressperson is going to live through this, and I have a draft of my deposition in development in case it happens.
At the moment, it's fair for people to focus on the immediate response to the ongoing attack until it's over.
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 3:02 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
> Even if it was not premeditated what do you think would have happened if the seditionist mob rounded a corner in the Capitol and ran into Pelosi and her staff?
Zip-tie bartender guy, aka, Eric Munchel, formerly of Doc Ford's Rum Bar & Grille, Nashville, Tennessee, has a previous history of premeditated violence even before he was hunting for politicians in their offices and the Senate chambers.
https://patch.com/georgia/sandysprings/two-arrested-for-beating-man-and-woman-at-roswell-road-apartment
He was carrying a taser and had pepper spray in his ballistic plate carrier, even before his fellow criminals forced entry into the Capitol Building while attacking a police officer who died from his wounds.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:15 AM on January 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
Zip-tie bartender guy, aka, Eric Munchel, formerly of Doc Ford's Rum Bar & Grille, Nashville, Tennessee, has a previous history of premeditated violence even before he was hunting for politicians in their offices and the Senate chambers.
https://patch.com/georgia/sandysprings/two-arrested-for-beating-man-and-woman-at-roswell-road-apartment
Last month, Sandy Springs Police arrested two men on battery charges and a May incident at the Falls of Sandy Springs apartments on Roswell Road.And there's apparently some violent rhetoric and posing with a weapon on his social media, which he's taken down.
Eric Munchel and Jeremy Martine are accused of going to the complex at 5555 Roswell Road and assaulting a man and woman after accusing them of a previous robbery of a female acquaintance.
He was carrying a taser and had pepper spray in his ballistic plate carrier, even before his fellow criminals forced entry into the Capitol Building while attacking a police officer who died from his wounds.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:15 AM on January 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
I'm not weeping over Trump being banned from Twitter or anything, but - is right that “it's not the government, so it's not really censorship” doesn't cut it anymore.
A private entity has come to the conclusion that it doesn’t want to publish the idle muses of a head of state anymore. Why should it be forced to do so? Forcing companies to mandatorily carry the thoughts of a head of state is oppression.
posted by the cydonian at 3:19 AM on January 9, 2021 [42 favorites]
A private entity has come to the conclusion that it doesn’t want to publish the idle muses of a head of state anymore. Why should it be forced to do so? Forcing companies to mandatorily carry the thoughts of a head of state is oppression.
posted by the cydonian at 3:19 AM on January 9, 2021 [42 favorites]
"The fucking digital means of production are still in the hands of people as powerful as Trump or worse. Let's not pretend otherwise."
I fully agree with you, and that's exactly the problem i was pointing at.
posted by - at 3:23 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
I fully agree with you, and that's exactly the problem i was pointing at.
posted by - at 3:23 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Isn't Trump repeatedly trying to twit from alternate Twitter accounts some sort of evidence (for his impeachment or other charges) that he has intentions to incite something? Like hes the president, if he has a real valid message to get out to the public, can't his office just issue a press release? Bypassing official streams of communication seems to show intent to distribute content that wouldn't be acceptable to the official streams because it's to incite an uprising against the law. He's such an asshole.
posted by WeekendJen at 3:35 AM on January 9, 2021 [53 favorites]
posted by WeekendJen at 3:35 AM on January 9, 2021 [53 favorites]
It's not that I don't find the twitter derail interesting, I'm just more interested in another issue: yesterday, or was it the day before? We are still doing Trump time which is weird. Well, whenever: McConnell said something like "allowing the losers to take over the election would start an evil spiral". How is it not the same if one allows Trump and his hench-people to get away with sedition? This is an extremely serious crime.
Even if it is a very good Biden administration and they do all the right things (which they can't and won't), how can democracy live on with that stain?
Also, isn't it absolutely necessary that Justice Roberts presides over the trial, to avoid creating the image that top democrats are prosecuting political opponents? I mean, the MAGA hats will say that anyway, but shouldn't Congress control this the best they can?
The deplatforming has been a nice beginning to my day. I will go take a walk in the woods. But there are still huge challenges ahead, and I really wonder if the US government is up to those challenges. And I wonder what will happen if they are not.
posted by mumimor at 3:42 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
Even if it is a very good Biden administration and they do all the right things (which they can't and won't), how can democracy live on with that stain?
Also, isn't it absolutely necessary that Justice Roberts presides over the trial, to avoid creating the image that top democrats are prosecuting political opponents? I mean, the MAGA hats will say that anyway, but shouldn't Congress control this the best they can?
The deplatforming has been a nice beginning to my day. I will go take a walk in the woods. But there are still huge challenges ahead, and I really wonder if the US government is up to those challenges. And I wonder what will happen if they are not.
posted by mumimor at 3:42 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
I mean, I've seen the whole "it's bad that Twitter is banning Trump because it empowers Twitter to ban even more" thing quite a lot on Twitter today, and I keep wracking my brain to try to figure out what else to do that is better.
There is no national movement right now capable of, eg, expropriating the tech companies.
Further violence between now and the 21st isn't IMO going to provide some kind of terrific opening for the left - it will, like 9/11, make things a lot worse because there's no real possibility of a fast and massive left response and every possibility of an authoritarian state response*.
We know that Trump's tweets make things a lot worse, as do the tweets of all these far right people. Twitter and Facebook have a reach that Parler doesn't yet. Setting up on a new platform is in fact a barrier, as we've seen with, eg, Tumblr and LiveJournal. Tumblr and Livejournal communities weren't in fact substantially replicated on other platforms even though in theory this could have happened. Internet communities are fragile and can't just be replicated elsewhere instantly.
I mean, yes, this is a very bad spot. We're getting the bans, etc, because many of the very wealthy have decided that the actual, total collapse of the US system is both dangerous to them and psychically unpleasant and many others have decided that whatever happens, Trump isn't going to hold the presidency and they'll be reckoning with the democrats**. This isn't happening because it's a victory for the left.
And at the same time, it feels like our options are really few. Like, I guess the other obvious option is to let everything run and hope that people can mount a massive, armed counterdemostration on the 21st, so that the inauguration will be a spectacle of two armed groups battling it out in DC and (as long as the cops don't come in on the fascist side) the left will win. First off, I'm not 100% sure that a left victory under those circumstances would lead to any less bad outsomes and second, I'm not sure we'd win. When it's numbers and not too many guns, I have a lot of faith in antifa tactics. I'm not totally sure that a head to head conflict with a lot of guns and a feeling that there's permission to use them is as winnable right now. I'm not sure that such a spectacle would do anything more than create support for even further authoritarian measures than the ones we're getting now. Right now at least the focus is on the far right, meaning that hopefully while all this stuff will be used against the left eventually there will be some kind of sweep of the right as well.
I guess it kind of comes down to whether you feel that escalated far right violence in the next couple of weeks makes some kind of opening for the left. I feel like the example of 9/11 argues that it does not - that the kind of national crisis that makes everyone panic and yearn for a strongman is bad for the left and makes things a lot harder.
So on balance, I think deplatforming at scale is the best option to minimize bloodshed and further authoritarian response, including that against the left. It's not "the best option" in some kind of absolute sense, but it's what we have.
*Also, I think a lot of this is just out of our hands. Another thing I've seen on twitter is "don't call for aggressive sanctions against these guys, you're just justifying anti-terrorism". But the thing is, we're going to get anti-terrorism response. It's not something that a small percentage of left-wing people control through our tweets. Most people are scared, whether for their money, their lives or the perceived future of the republic, and they're scared about something that actually happened really publicly and recently. That's the driver of the response, not whether a small percentage of the percentage of Americans who use twitter say the most correctly radical things.
Also also, I think that people on the left may tend to underestimate how scared and distressed average, relatively non-political people are and particularly how scared and distressed they'd be if something worse happens. If you're of the left you probably don't have much of a sentimental attachment to Congress or the capitol building, but a lot of other people do and it's viscerally scary and disturbing to them. Similarly, although I found 9/11 disturbing, it really didn't throw me because it wasn't out of line with what I knew of world events - but remember how it really fucking threw a lot of people who were not especially politically engaged? Not bad people, just people who were not especially interested in our godawful political times?
posted by Frowner at 3:48 AM on January 9, 2021 [43 favorites]
There is no national movement right now capable of, eg, expropriating the tech companies.
Further violence between now and the 21st isn't IMO going to provide some kind of terrific opening for the left - it will, like 9/11, make things a lot worse because there's no real possibility of a fast and massive left response and every possibility of an authoritarian state response*.
We know that Trump's tweets make things a lot worse, as do the tweets of all these far right people. Twitter and Facebook have a reach that Parler doesn't yet. Setting up on a new platform is in fact a barrier, as we've seen with, eg, Tumblr and LiveJournal. Tumblr and Livejournal communities weren't in fact substantially replicated on other platforms even though in theory this could have happened. Internet communities are fragile and can't just be replicated elsewhere instantly.
I mean, yes, this is a very bad spot. We're getting the bans, etc, because many of the very wealthy have decided that the actual, total collapse of the US system is both dangerous to them and psychically unpleasant and many others have decided that whatever happens, Trump isn't going to hold the presidency and they'll be reckoning with the democrats**. This isn't happening because it's a victory for the left.
And at the same time, it feels like our options are really few. Like, I guess the other obvious option is to let everything run and hope that people can mount a massive, armed counterdemostration on the 21st, so that the inauguration will be a spectacle of two armed groups battling it out in DC and (as long as the cops don't come in on the fascist side) the left will win. First off, I'm not 100% sure that a left victory under those circumstances would lead to any less bad outsomes and second, I'm not sure we'd win. When it's numbers and not too many guns, I have a lot of faith in antifa tactics. I'm not totally sure that a head to head conflict with a lot of guns and a feeling that there's permission to use them is as winnable right now. I'm not sure that such a spectacle would do anything more than create support for even further authoritarian measures than the ones we're getting now. Right now at least the focus is on the far right, meaning that hopefully while all this stuff will be used against the left eventually there will be some kind of sweep of the right as well.
I guess it kind of comes down to whether you feel that escalated far right violence in the next couple of weeks makes some kind of opening for the left. I feel like the example of 9/11 argues that it does not - that the kind of national crisis that makes everyone panic and yearn for a strongman is bad for the left and makes things a lot harder.
So on balance, I think deplatforming at scale is the best option to minimize bloodshed and further authoritarian response, including that against the left. It's not "the best option" in some kind of absolute sense, but it's what we have.
*Also, I think a lot of this is just out of our hands. Another thing I've seen on twitter is "don't call for aggressive sanctions against these guys, you're just justifying anti-terrorism". But the thing is, we're going to get anti-terrorism response. It's not something that a small percentage of left-wing people control through our tweets. Most people are scared, whether for their money, their lives or the perceived future of the republic, and they're scared about something that actually happened really publicly and recently. That's the driver of the response, not whether a small percentage of the percentage of Americans who use twitter say the most correctly radical things.
Also also, I think that people on the left may tend to underestimate how scared and distressed average, relatively non-political people are and particularly how scared and distressed they'd be if something worse happens. If you're of the left you probably don't have much of a sentimental attachment to Congress or the capitol building, but a lot of other people do and it's viscerally scary and disturbing to them. Similarly, although I found 9/11 disturbing, it really didn't throw me because it wasn't out of line with what I knew of world events - but remember how it really fucking threw a lot of people who were not especially politically engaged? Not bad people, just people who were not especially interested in our godawful political times?
posted by Frowner at 3:48 AM on January 9, 2021 [43 favorites]
I think it's better to judge these things on a case-by-case basis. Twitter banning Trump is a good thing. Reddit killing hateful subs is good. FB arbitrarily silencing lefty voices & groups, only because they want to court Republicans, is bad. If any of the major platforms have unfairly banned right wingers, who weren't advocating hate & violence, that would be bad too. Though AFAIK any conservative who just talks about tax breaks hasn't been affected at all.
I think it's an important debate to have. But Twitter banning the president isn't the ground to have it on because there were clear reasons why it happened. To be worried about that specific ban is essentially taking a stance that there shouldn't be moderation at all.
And it plays into the right wing's co-opting of the free speech debate. They protest incessantly when hateful posts and people get cut off. And are silent (or approving) when the same happens to non-violent posts from the left. In their own groups, subreddits, and forums, they relentlessly censor dissenting voices. It's obvious what their goal is.
posted by Teegeeack AV Club Secretary at 3:49 AM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
I think it's an important debate to have. But Twitter banning the president isn't the ground to have it on because there were clear reasons why it happened. To be worried about that specific ban is essentially taking a stance that there shouldn't be moderation at all.
And it plays into the right wing's co-opting of the free speech debate. They protest incessantly when hateful posts and people get cut off. And are silent (or approving) when the same happens to non-violent posts from the left. In their own groups, subreddits, and forums, they relentlessly censor dissenting voices. It's obvious what their goal is.
posted by Teegeeack AV Club Secretary at 3:49 AM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
The good news is that zip tie guy #1 is not actually ex-military or a cop, just a better cosplayer than usual; he's a bartender.
Sorry; this is way upthread, but – they identified him? I saw the Twitter thread last night, where they had connected the photo to an interview with a MAGA goon in a hotel lobby – but I missed the part where he had been identified. Anyone have a link?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 3:53 AM on January 9, 2021
Sorry; this is way upthread, but – they identified him? I saw the Twitter thread last night, where they had connected the photo to an interview with a MAGA goon in a hotel lobby – but I missed the part where he had been identified. Anyone have a link?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 3:53 AM on January 9, 2021
> The word "functionally" in this sentence must have biceps like Dwayne Johnson.
Eh, we're arguing definitions but agreed on facts.
I wonder if the leader of the free world™ has remembered he's got the James S. Brady Press Briefing Room down the hall, or if he even has the balls to go stand in front of justifiably angry journalists.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:54 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Eh, we're arguing definitions but agreed on facts.
I wonder if the leader of the free world™ has remembered he's got the James S. Brady Press Briefing Room down the hall, or if he even has the balls to go stand in front of justifiably angry journalists.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:54 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
> Sorry; this is way upthread, but – they identified him? I saw the Twitter thread last night, where they had connected the photo to an interview with a MAGA goon in a hotel lobby – but I missed the part where he had been identified. Anyone have a link?
https://twitter.com/sparrowmedia/status/1347754757042167811
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:56 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
https://twitter.com/sparrowmedia/status/1347754757042167811
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:56 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Personally, if this ends up with a neutered or weaker social media, or the breakup of the big companies, or their replacement with new companies, to me that's all positive.
posted by signal at 4:00 AM on January 9, 2021 [30 favorites]
posted by signal at 4:00 AM on January 9, 2021 [30 favorites]
I imagine this is the fantasy (SLYT) that's playing on a loop in these guys' heads.
posted by duoshao at 4:03 AM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by duoshao at 4:03 AM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
developing, deploying, and staffing such a feature on 24 hours notice seems a bit not-doable?
I'm guessing Apple has warned them about this in the past. Plus it's apparently published in their policies.
posted by duoshao at 4:31 AM on January 9, 2021
I'm guessing Apple has warned them about this in the past. Plus it's apparently published in their policies.
posted by duoshao at 4:31 AM on January 9, 2021
There is no 'free speech debate'.
Free speech is when governments don't tell you what you can say. Private companies can do what they like.
The argument that too few very large private companies have acquired too much power over the channels of communication is a perfectly valid one. But it's a completely different argument.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 4:46 AM on January 9, 2021 [64 favorites]
Free speech is when governments don't tell you what you can say. Private companies can do what they like.
The argument that too few very large private companies have acquired too much power over the channels of communication is a perfectly valid one. But it's a completely different argument.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 4:46 AM on January 9, 2021 [64 favorites]
A private entity has come to the conclusion that it doesn’t want to publish the idle muses of a head of state anymore. Why should it be forced to do so? Forcing companies to mandatorily carry the thoughts of a head of state is oppression.
All the more oppressive and totalitarian is twisting the tender arm of a gentle benevolent C corporation registered in Delaware—Delaware, where the state butterfly is the Eastern tiger swallowtail, can you image anything more pure and free?—to make it publish the tweets of a straw man.
Why it makes me want to throw my Braveheart sword in the air and scream about freedom! Or get greased up 300-style and beat up some members of the Kardashian family because they were totally about to invade my peninsula!
posted by XMLicious at 4:51 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
I skimmed the Twitter statement, and it was typical Americanese corporate gobbledygook to me; i.e., if anyone could truly offer a justification the rationale for a ban, it would also solve the riddle of neoliberal ideology. I think it is lame that the fate of a nation hinges on whether their president should or should not be moderated by a media corporation. Since it's a structural problem, leftists shouldn't be too invested either way on how the morons at Twitter run their website, there are bigger hills for us to die on.
posted by polymodus at 4:56 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by polymodus at 4:56 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Here's the thing about the debate on whether Twitter banning Trump is censorship or not... It hinges on whether it's a private company exercising its right to deny a problematic customer access to its service or a piece of the public information infrastructure denying someone access.
And the problem is: it's both. Twitter is part of the infrastructure now and it's a corporation. That's a huge problem.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:59 AM on January 9, 2021 [19 favorites]
And the problem is: it's both. Twitter is part of the infrastructure now and it's a corporation. That's a huge problem.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:59 AM on January 9, 2021 [19 favorites]
The only thing I know for sure about Twitter banning Trump is that Trump hates it. For now, that's enough for me.
posted by mmoncur at 5:04 AM on January 9, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by mmoncur at 5:04 AM on January 9, 2021 [19 favorites]
Here's the thing about the debate on whether Twitter banning Trump is censorship or not
If someone comes into my house and starts making racist or threatening remarks, I throw them out permanently.
If this is only OK because my house isn't very large, then we have a problem.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 5:05 AM on January 9, 2021 [29 favorites]
If someone comes into my house and starts making racist or threatening remarks, I throw them out permanently.
If this is only OK because my house isn't very large, then we have a problem.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 5:05 AM on January 9, 2021 [29 favorites]
Don't misread me above though. I'm not arguing he shouldn't be banned. I'm arguing we should break up Twitter.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
[As a courtesy to the next mod on duty I'm going to ask everyone start to restrain your going-off-on-off-topic-tangents impulses, even though it's been a lot of fun reading y'all riffing about Trump being banned from Twitter. Thank you and good night!]
In view of this, maybe we should let the twitter discussion cool down and just let the thread rest until the next news item or what-have-you? It sort of feels like every point of view about the subject has gotten a good airing.
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:11 AM on January 9, 2021 [21 favorites]
In view of this, maybe we should let the twitter discussion cool down and just let the thread rest until the next news item or what-have-you? It sort of feels like every point of view about the subject has gotten a good airing.
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:11 AM on January 9, 2021 [21 favorites]
I know that the hardcore MAGA assholes are not going to give up once Trump is out of office, but I think there were also a lot of hateful people that were highly motivated by the “winning” and the feeling it gave them to have their hateful views praised and reinforced constantly. They were addicted to feeling good about their hate, and were fundamentally selfish people not actually committed to a cause. They were there to party, at rallies or on motorboat flotillas. They are not going to stick around for the losing or put in effort. The more we can suppress messages of hate and turn off this pleasure spigot, the more likely they are to give up and go back to being horrible people quietly.
posted by snofoam at 5:15 AM on January 9, 2021 [64 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 5:15 AM on January 9, 2021 [64 favorites]
In view of this, maybe we should let the twitter discussion cool down and just let the thread rest until the next news item or what-have-you? It sort of feels like every point of view about the subject has gotten a good airing.
seconded - otherwise we'll force the mods to start deleting comments, and then BAM instant dystopia -_-
posted by inire at 5:15 AM on January 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
seconded - otherwise we'll force the mods to start deleting comments, and then BAM instant dystopia -_-
posted by inire at 5:15 AM on January 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
Andy Ratto: The biggest self-own is when Twitter bans a bunch of Nazi or fash to see who complains about it.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 5:18 AM on January 9, 2021 [30 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 5:18 AM on January 9, 2021 [30 favorites]
At the moment, it's fair for people to focus on the immediate response to the ongoing attack until it's over.
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin
The order of business for the next 11 days remains:
1. Survive.
2. Remove Trump.
3. Everything else.
posted by Pouteria at 5:26 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin
The order of business for the next 11 days remains:
1. Survive.
2. Remove Trump.
3. Everything else.
posted by Pouteria at 5:26 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
Also also, I think that people on the left may tend to underestimate how scared and distressed average, relatively non-political people are and particularly how scared and distressed they'd be if something worse happens.
I hear what you're saying but, like, kids in cages, Ahmaud Arbery was hunted down in killed in February by Nazis who may or may not be convicted, Nazis have been carrying out ISIS-style vehicle-ramming attacks against protesters, including some by cops, all year, but now... some Nazis took dumps on some very important desks in Washington, D.C., so maybe some action can be taken against Nazis now.
I know I'm preaching to the choir but if I were in one of the groups targeted by Nazis—and the rest of society—for special attention, instead of being my white cis male hetero self, I would not exactly be holding my breath in the expectation that “something must be done!” and reactions that sound suspiciously like simply getting revenge on Trump and Nazis would make me any safer.
So I guess I'm pretty much agreeing with you... best option is to
minimize bloodshed and further authoritarian response, including that against the leftwith my concern just that most of the things being discussed in the media and in our threads here seem rather iffy in regards to actually trying to accomplish those things.
posted by XMLicious at 5:27 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
I know that the hardcore MAGA assholes are not going to give up once Trump is out of office, but I think there were also a lot of hateful people that were highly motivated by the “winning” and the feeling it gave them to have their hateful views praised and reinforced constantly.
Completely agree --- there is a seductive pageantry around being the winner, and I think it's more powerful than people like to assume. And to some folks there's a punishing demoralization around being the loser, and that can also be powerful, and useful.
To me it makes me think of things like Guy Fawkes Day as shrewd propaganda, and, you know? perhaps it's something for the US to consider. Every year in the dark of winter, a robust celebration of a day when clumsy ignominious fascists tried to take over the government and failed. The inescapable brilliance and racket of fireworks overhead telling the Trumpists that they are losing losers who lost, year after year after year, and it's all paid for with their municipal tax dollars. The unchecked, hours-long jubilation of all the people they arrogantly thought they would rule, or who in their delusion they believed would welcome them as saviors, all outside in the dead of winter celebrating their failure and stupidity! Again, just like they did last year, and the year before that! "Daddy, why can't we go out and watch the fireworks? Come on, let's watch them!"
posted by Chef Flamboyardee at 5:34 AM on January 9, 2021 [79 favorites]
Completely agree --- there is a seductive pageantry around being the winner, and I think it's more powerful than people like to assume. And to some folks there's a punishing demoralization around being the loser, and that can also be powerful, and useful.
To me it makes me think of things like Guy Fawkes Day as shrewd propaganda, and, you know? perhaps it's something for the US to consider. Every year in the dark of winter, a robust celebration of a day when clumsy ignominious fascists tried to take over the government and failed. The inescapable brilliance and racket of fireworks overhead telling the Trumpists that they are losing losers who lost, year after year after year, and it's all paid for with their municipal tax dollars. The unchecked, hours-long jubilation of all the people they arrogantly thought they would rule, or who in their delusion they believed would welcome them as saviors, all outside in the dead of winter celebrating their failure and stupidity! Again, just like they did last year, and the year before that! "Daddy, why can't we go out and watch the fireworks? Come on, let's watch them!"
posted by Chef Flamboyardee at 5:34 AM on January 9, 2021 [79 favorites]
Hawley's donors and Jack Danforth are turning against him. If he resigns, MO senate vacancies are done by gubernatorial appointment and we're currently lead by sentient fencepost Mike Parson. God help us he doesn't appoint Eric Greitens. Happy Saturday!
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:40 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:40 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
If this is only OK because my house isn't very large, then we have a problem.
In this analogy, have you spent the last many years doing everything in your power to make your house the de facto public meeting space for your community?
posted by solotoro at 5:40 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
In this analogy, have you spent the last many years doing everything in your power to make your house the de facto public meeting space for your community?
posted by solotoro at 5:40 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
If you're of the left you probably don't have much of a sentimental attachment to Congress or the capitol building, but a lot of other people do and it's viscerally scary and disturbing to them.
I consider myself to be 'of the left' - and speaking for myself, you couldn't be more viscerally wrong with your claim that I "don't have much of a sentimental attachment to Congress or the Capitol Building". On the contrary - my support for those entities, and the ideals which they represent, is precisely what fueled my horror at seeing a mob attempt to obstruct Congressional functions, and destroy the historic artifacts within that building.
So yes, I found the events of Wednesday to be "viscerally scary and disturbing" as well, even though I am "of the left".
There is a dangerous narrative that liberals don't care about some of our government structures for some reason, and that is grossly unfair. We may have different ideas about what the government should be doing, but that doesn't mean that we don't care about it - on the contrary, we care deeply enough to want to try to shape it, because that's what we believe as Americans that we are supposed to be doing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:41 AM on January 9, 2021 [125 favorites]
I consider myself to be 'of the left' - and speaking for myself, you couldn't be more viscerally wrong with your claim that I "don't have much of a sentimental attachment to Congress or the Capitol Building". On the contrary - my support for those entities, and the ideals which they represent, is precisely what fueled my horror at seeing a mob attempt to obstruct Congressional functions, and destroy the historic artifacts within that building.
So yes, I found the events of Wednesday to be "viscerally scary and disturbing" as well, even though I am "of the left".
There is a dangerous narrative that liberals don't care about some of our government structures for some reason, and that is grossly unfair. We may have different ideas about what the government should be doing, but that doesn't mean that we don't care about it - on the contrary, we care deeply enough to want to try to shape it, because that's what we believe as Americans that we are supposed to be doing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:41 AM on January 9, 2021 [125 favorites]
Oh, but see, just there you made the dangerous assertion that you are "liberal," which means you are even more of an enemy to those "of the left" than people who are "of the right." I don't understand this breed of activism that seems to hate Pelosi just as much as they hate Trump, maybe more.
posted by rikschell at 5:47 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 5:47 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Mod note: Please, please, please don't start up all the left vs the Left vs the leftists vs the liberals, etc., fucking etc. We (mods) are still not over the trauma of all that from the bad old megathreads, and it's seriously not going to go anywhere non-awful. We'll be deleting and/or censoring more of that.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:53 AM on January 9, 2021 [102 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 5:53 AM on January 9, 2021 [102 favorites]
Since it's a structural problem, leftists shouldn't be too invested either way on how the morons at Twitter run their website, there are bigger hills for us to die on.
Since it's a structural problem, leftists shouldn't be too invested either way on the problem of the machine guns this manufacturer is selling to right wing militias, there are bigger hills for us to die on.
posted by Anonymous at 6:00 AM on January 9, 2021
Since it's a structural problem, leftists shouldn't be too invested either way on the problem of the machine guns this manufacturer is selling to right wing militias, there are bigger hills for us to die on.
posted by Anonymous at 6:00 AM on January 9, 2021
In this analogy, have you spent the last many years doing everything in your power to make your house the de facto public meeting space for your community?
this is a fair point for normal people but doesn't apply to trump. he chose to become the twitter president and adopt it as his primary comms channel - twitter enabled it (passively and actively) but it was his choice to use it as much as he did, despite the plethora of other comms channels available to a president and a high-profile rich person.
he, more so than almost anyone else on twitter, has a huge range of options for communicating with his fans, which is why all the censorship talk rings so hollow to me - and, from the trumpists, reminiscent of 'white person says they're being oppressed because their unearned privilege is being dialed back to a normal level'. oh no, i only have access to the methods of communication employed by every previous president and a level of reach that is merely thousands of times greater than the average american rather than millions of times. SILENCED, i tell you.
or maybe it's the equivalent of his relationships with banks over the years (owing them enough money that they can't act against him). he made twitter important enough to himself as president that he's now got not only trumpists but purported free speech advocates arguing that he shouldn't be kicked off it despite, uh, everything. you gotta hand it to him, he's got a method and it works.
correction: you do not, under any circumstances, 'gotta hand it to him'
posted by inire at 6:03 AM on January 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
this is a fair point for normal people but doesn't apply to trump. he chose to become the twitter president and adopt it as his primary comms channel - twitter enabled it (passively and actively) but it was his choice to use it as much as he did, despite the plethora of other comms channels available to a president and a high-profile rich person.
he, more so than almost anyone else on twitter, has a huge range of options for communicating with his fans, which is why all the censorship talk rings so hollow to me - and, from the trumpists, reminiscent of 'white person says they're being oppressed because their unearned privilege is being dialed back to a normal level'. oh no, i only have access to the methods of communication employed by every previous president and a level of reach that is merely thousands of times greater than the average american rather than millions of times. SILENCED, i tell you.
or maybe it's the equivalent of his relationships with banks over the years (owing them enough money that they can't act against him). he made twitter important enough to himself as president that he's now got not only trumpists but purported free speech advocates arguing that he shouldn't be kicked off it despite, uh, everything. you gotta hand it to him, he's got a method and it works.
correction: you do not, under any circumstances, 'gotta hand it to him'
posted by inire at 6:03 AM on January 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
I hear what you're saying but, like, kids in cages, Ahmaud Arbery was hunted down in killed in February by Nazis who may or may not be convicted, Nazis have been carrying out ISIS-style vehicle-ramming attacks against protesters, including some by cops, all year, but now... some Nazis took dumps on some very important desks in Washington, D.C., so maybe some action can be taken against Nazis now.
It would be interesting to know who pays attention to what and how much knowledge is out there. My impression, based on chatting with reasonably well-informed and good people at work, has been that there are a lot of not-especially-political people who don't really know too much, even now, about white supremacist terrorism in the US. In particular, I think there are a lot of people who don't have a framework - they see isolated bad events happening elsewhere and those are just isolated bad events. This is partly because of racism and the perpetual "innocence" of white people, but it's also partially because of the lack of organized ways for people to understand and engage with the world.
I assume that this is at least in part because everyday life is hard enough and there are relatively few effective channels for action (even though this is changing) so people do feel that there's no particular reason to pay attention.
But I'd say that the riot at the Capitol does speak to a narrative that people do already have about government stability. People who don't have a lot of context (or who have bad context) for other events have a pretty consistent, baked-in context for this one, and therefore it's going to upset them a lot more.
It feels to me like the problem is still a problem of organizing and that doesn't change what is happening right this moment because it's a long game.
posted by Frowner at 6:03 AM on January 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
It would be interesting to know who pays attention to what and how much knowledge is out there. My impression, based on chatting with reasonably well-informed and good people at work, has been that there are a lot of not-especially-political people who don't really know too much, even now, about white supremacist terrorism in the US. In particular, I think there are a lot of people who don't have a framework - they see isolated bad events happening elsewhere and those are just isolated bad events. This is partly because of racism and the perpetual "innocence" of white people, but it's also partially because of the lack of organized ways for people to understand and engage with the world.
I assume that this is at least in part because everyday life is hard enough and there are relatively few effective channels for action (even though this is changing) so people do feel that there's no particular reason to pay attention.
But I'd say that the riot at the Capitol does speak to a narrative that people do already have about government stability. People who don't have a lot of context (or who have bad context) for other events have a pretty consistent, baked-in context for this one, and therefore it's going to upset them a lot more.
It feels to me like the problem is still a problem of organizing and that doesn't change what is happening right this moment because it's a long game.
posted by Frowner at 6:03 AM on January 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
Of course, the "people" who lack the framework are almost certainly mostly white people. Not exclusively, but mostly.
posted by Frowner at 6:07 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 6:07 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
We've got pretty good evidence over the last four years that every time you shake up the right-wingers and force them to move platforms, a bunch of people never move on. Similarly, they got rid of Richard Spencer by forcing him to continually change his plans, and the same approach would have eventually done the same to Milo Yiannopoulos if the pro-pedophilia remarks hadn't seen his support network abruptly cut him off. (This approach did make it so he couldn't recover from that blow.)
I'm not particularly concerned about the censorship argument of deplatforming like this. The harm of censorship is that some group has made the decision for you about whether or not a debate can take place, instead of it being amongst the electorate where it belongs. It's not censorship if you're stopping people from disputing the results of a debate that's already happened (e.g. an election, or anti-discrimination laws); that is in fact respecting the democratic process. For Trump, the debate is "instead of liberal democracy, Trump should be an autocrat," which is not a debate you can have in a liberal framework because one of the two sides is trying to smash that framework! It is not a threat to liberal principles to say "this is a threat to our liberal principles" and ban the fuckers.
(I agree that the censorship sidebar is bad and pre-emptively consent to this whole paragraph being modded away, but: obviously private corporations are capable of censorship, if they have the ability to decide what is and is not in the public sphere. Walmart is probably in this space; I'd argue Facebook's algorithm is having this effect because for a large swathe of the electorate, Facebook is the only venue where they have political discussion. Twitter, probably not, by virtue of how much on Twitter migrates to other venues. Corporate America as a whole, when they move together, can censor.)
posted by Merus at 6:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
I'm not particularly concerned about the censorship argument of deplatforming like this. The harm of censorship is that some group has made the decision for you about whether or not a debate can take place, instead of it being amongst the electorate where it belongs. It's not censorship if you're stopping people from disputing the results of a debate that's already happened (e.g. an election, or anti-discrimination laws); that is in fact respecting the democratic process. For Trump, the debate is "instead of liberal democracy, Trump should be an autocrat," which is not a debate you can have in a liberal framework because one of the two sides is trying to smash that framework! It is not a threat to liberal principles to say "this is a threat to our liberal principles" and ban the fuckers.
(I agree that the censorship sidebar is bad and pre-emptively consent to this whole paragraph being modded away, but: obviously private corporations are capable of censorship, if they have the ability to decide what is and is not in the public sphere. Walmart is probably in this space; I'd argue Facebook's algorithm is having this effect because for a large swathe of the electorate, Facebook is the only venue where they have political discussion. Twitter, probably not, by virtue of how much on Twitter migrates to other venues. Corporate America as a whole, when they move together, can censor.)
posted by Merus at 6:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
It wasn't treason,
They had a reason--Trump.
It was T-reason.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:10 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
They had a reason--Trump.
It was T-reason.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:10 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
In this analogy, have you spent the last many years doing everything in your power to make your house the de facto public meeting space for your community?
That's the point. Twitter is not public space.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 6:30 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
That's the point. Twitter is not public space.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 6:30 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Can’t believe how much play “We didn’t mean to burn down the Reichstag” is getting. The fuckers were using world like revolution right up until the old snake oil salesmen didn’t commit the actual troops to support their efforts.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:32 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:32 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
Bars have bouncers. You can kick people out of public spaces too.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:32 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:32 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
That asshole has used Twitter to end run normalcy for years. It allows him to ratchet the news cycle down to seconds rather than the normal 24 hours. That combined with no filter is the trick...that’s it. This removes that ability from him and forces him to use the official and somewhat robust communications channels of oh...the most powerful person on the planet.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:35 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:35 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
Tampa Bay man seen carrying lectern at U.S. Capitol riot arrested in Pinellas County, WFLA 8; Jan 9, 2021:
posted by cenoxo at 6:36 AM on January 9, 2021 [50 favorites]
VIDEOSmile and wave, boys, just smile and wave.
PINELLAS COUNTY, Fla. (WFLA) — The Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office inmate search shows that the man seen carrying a lectern through the U.S. Capitol during a riot Wednesday has been arrested.
The man smiling and waving at the camera has been identified as 36-year-old Adam Johnson of Parrish in Manatee County. 8 On Your Side has learned Johnson is married to a local physician and is a father of five.
The arrest report says Johnson was booked in the Pinellas County Jail around 9 p.m. Friday. He remains there on a US Marshal warrant....
posted by cenoxo at 6:36 AM on January 9, 2021 [50 favorites]
Twitter was rapidly losing users and their market cap was plummeting in 2015-2016. Trumpist engagement was probably the main thing that kept them afloat. It would probably have been better for all of us if they'd simply shut him down then and/or failed entirely (although with that much VC money floating around they'd probably just have pulled a MySpace).
If someone really wants to re-hash the well-trodden social media censorship/de-platforming argument could they make a different thread about it?
posted by aspersioncast at 6:38 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
If someone really wants to re-hash the well-trodden social media censorship/de-platforming argument could they make a different thread about it?
posted by aspersioncast at 6:38 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
if 70% of the social platforms ban Trump we reach herd immunity
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:42 AM on January 9, 2021 [87 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:42 AM on January 9, 2021 [87 favorites]
Adam Christian Johnson, the man captured in viral photo carrying Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s lectern from House chambers, has been arrested. miamiherald (link works in Europe)
posted by Lanark at 6:45 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Lanark at 6:45 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
I kinda wish these arrests had waited until after That Guy loses the ability to pardon. What, was the statute of limitations just a fortnight for these assholes?
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 6:52 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 6:52 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
If the arrests help to slow and deter the next planned attack, I don’t think it is a bad thing... The risk of some of these losers getting pardoned is significantly less than loosing our country.
posted by rambling wanderlust at 6:58 AM on January 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by rambling wanderlust at 6:58 AM on January 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
Any delay would be a propaganda boost for the MAGAs. And they've got laptops to recover.
Serious question: If the some of the Capitol Police did in fact wave them in as is purportedly shown in those videos, does that give the rioters a defense against unlawful entry charges?
posted by hydrophonic at 7:00 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Serious question: If the some of the Capitol Police did in fact wave them in as is purportedly shown in those videos, does that give the rioters a defense against unlawful entry charges?
posted by hydrophonic at 7:00 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
let everything run and hope that people can mount a massive, armed counterdemostration on the 21st, so that the inauguration will be a spectacle of two armed groups battling it out in DC
But doesn’t that mean that we’ve devolved into a hot civil war?
That’s what I’m afraid of happening, and I thought that that was one of the reasons why counter-protestors were told to stay home on 1/6 — to stop a literal battle/massacre from breaking out. I don’t think it’s likely but I think it’s a reasonable possibility that we’ll still devolve into a shooting war on/around the Inauguration; that’s certainly what the qmob & co are planning when they say that 1/6 was just a warmup to their actual big day. And because the insurrection was successful inasmuch as they got control of the Capitol, got their martyr and their murder, and practically all left and are now roaming free, their momentum is very high going into the Inauguration.
Judging from the timelines leading up to the US Civil War and the violence in Germany leading up to WWII, I think it’s actually probable at this point that we’ll have a hot civil war sometime in the next 10 years or so, and I find that terrifying.
I am someone who has been paying attention and has been very politically involved, but a hostile force successfully taking over the Capitol, with the apparent goal of murdering congresspeople (and VP) and installing a dictator, launches us into a whole new context as far as I’m concerned, and yes, I find it viscerally horrifying.
If you haven’t already, listen to It Could Happen Here, a brilliant and prescient podcast. Or don’t, it’s a very scary listen.
posted by rue72 at 7:04 AM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
But doesn’t that mean that we’ve devolved into a hot civil war?
That’s what I’m afraid of happening, and I thought that that was one of the reasons why counter-protestors were told to stay home on 1/6 — to stop a literal battle/massacre from breaking out. I don’t think it’s likely but I think it’s a reasonable possibility that we’ll still devolve into a shooting war on/around the Inauguration; that’s certainly what the qmob & co are planning when they say that 1/6 was just a warmup to their actual big day. And because the insurrection was successful inasmuch as they got control of the Capitol, got their martyr and their murder, and practically all left and are now roaming free, their momentum is very high going into the Inauguration.
Judging from the timelines leading up to the US Civil War and the violence in Germany leading up to WWII, I think it’s actually probable at this point that we’ll have a hot civil war sometime in the next 10 years or so, and I find that terrifying.
I am someone who has been paying attention and has been very politically involved, but a hostile force successfully taking over the Capitol, with the apparent goal of murdering congresspeople (and VP) and installing a dictator, launches us into a whole new context as far as I’m concerned, and yes, I find it viscerally horrifying.
If you haven’t already, listen to It Could Happen Here, a brilliant and prescient podcast. Or don’t, it’s a very scary listen.
posted by rue72 at 7:04 AM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
I've been reviewing a fair bit of the breach footage, and so far the only "waving in" I've seen is CP standing along hallway walls waving insurgents along, which is glorious because (a) the insurgents are happily complying with these directions and (b) the direction they're being waved along in has clear and obvious Exit signs.
posted by flabdablet at 7:05 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 7:05 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
MeFi - during these dark times you all have made me laugh out loud more than once. Once again, thank you!
posted by bluesky43 at 7:06 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by bluesky43 at 7:06 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
One Scaramucci left for Trump, straight from the horses mouth. Of course it would be great if it was less than that...
posted by Gray Duck at 7:10 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by Gray Duck at 7:10 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
which is glorious
There is nothing "glorious" about police politely directing people towards an exit when those people just attempted a murder spree of an entire branch of government as part of a coup. Only a fraction of a percent of them have even been identified, let alone arrested. It is profoundly scary in a way that a lot of people, especially white people, may take a long time (if ever) to truly comprehend.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 7:12 AM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
There is nothing "glorious" about police politely directing people towards an exit when those people just attempted a murder spree of an entire branch of government as part of a coup. Only a fraction of a percent of them have even been identified, let alone arrested. It is profoundly scary in a way that a lot of people, especially white people, may take a long time (if ever) to truly comprehend.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 7:12 AM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
Grant Stern
@grantstern
At what point does Parler just rename their app Evidence?
8:51 PM · Jan 8, 2021
posted by bluesky43 at 7:13 AM on January 9, 2021 [32 favorites]
@grantstern
At what point does Parler just rename their app Evidence?
8:51 PM · Jan 8, 2021
posted by bluesky43 at 7:13 AM on January 9, 2021 [32 favorites]
Of course, the "people" who lack the framework are almost certainly mostly white people. Not exclusively, but mostly.
I spent most of last year sat on my bum looking at a screen watching Tiger King or Queen's Gambit. Remember Tiger King? It was a good year for streaming. By far the show I remember the most didn't even have a name though. Let's call it White Supremacy. I think it's the most important reality show I've ever seen.
I watched a man die, have the life squashed out of him. It took forever. I'll never forget that. And the protests! So much brutality. Just unbelievable. White Supremacy is a hell of a spectacle.
And this last episode? When the Whites are protesting? I'm looking at my skin and wondering... is there anything I'm not allowed to do?
If you watched the White Supremacy show in 2020 and you didn't develop a 'framework' to explain all this injustice, get off my fucking planet you fucking nazi.
posted by adept256 at 7:13 AM on January 9, 2021 [42 favorites]
I spent most of last year sat on my bum looking at a screen watching Tiger King or Queen's Gambit. Remember Tiger King? It was a good year for streaming. By far the show I remember the most didn't even have a name though. Let's call it White Supremacy. I think it's the most important reality show I've ever seen.
I watched a man die, have the life squashed out of him. It took forever. I'll never forget that. And the protests! So much brutality. Just unbelievable. White Supremacy is a hell of a spectacle.
And this last episode? When the Whites are protesting? I'm looking at my skin and wondering... is there anything I'm not allowed to do?
If you watched the White Supremacy show in 2020 and you didn't develop a 'framework' to explain all this injustice, get off my fucking planet you fucking nazi.
posted by adept256 at 7:13 AM on January 9, 2021 [42 favorites]
If nothing else it really illustrates that there are two systems of policing. One for the in group, one for the out group.
posted by Slackermagee at 7:14 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Slackermagee at 7:14 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
The Houston Chronicle is calling for Ted Cruz to resign.
Editorial: Resign, Senator Cruz. Your lies cost lives.
posted by bluesky43 at 7:20 AM on January 9, 2021 [55 favorites]
Editorial: Resign, Senator Cruz. Your lies cost lives.
posted by bluesky43 at 7:20 AM on January 9, 2021 [55 favorites]
> The Apple/Google app thing seems a little lame - doesn't pulling the app just mean its not available to new installs? If they revoked the apps dev/app certificate that might be a big-deal. Also people could just goto the mobile version of the website (its what I do for twitter/facebook so as to avoid their apps pulling telemetry from my device) ? Ideally AWS (or their host, who people seem to think is AWS) would pull their site hosting. Or their DNS registrar would revoke their entry, or their SSLprovider would revoke the site certificate (wouldn't stop the site but it would be completely insecure) and of course if they had a CDN like Akamai or Cloudflare they would get pulled too (Cloudflare front many other odious websites so they seem unlikely to do that).
Let's run down the scenarios. Assume for now that no matter what happens, the Parler website will continue to exist and provide social media service.
• Apple and Google pull the app: No new app installs, no app updates. Every time somebody replaces their phone, they can't move or reinstall the app onto it. No immediate impact, but as time grinds on the app becomes less relevant because fewer people can use it. Eventually -- probably within two years -- it will be incompatible with current OSes and userbase will plummet into irrelevance.
• Apple and Google pull the app/dev cert: Immediate removal.
(In either of the above two scenarios, Android users will continue to be able to sideload the app but the means for doing so will be inaccessible to the average user. Depending on what happens there will be a small ecology of predatory services offering to bundle and sideload the app onto the user's phone for a small fee, which is pretty much guaranteed to include malware/spyware of some kind.)
The following scenarios are considerably less likely, because these services tend to be doctrinarily content-neutral, short of knowingly facilitating a small list of things that are illegal pretty much everywhere, such as child porn (Parler is awful in all kinds of ways but I suspect even they would proactively shut down and report to the authorities any accounts posting child porn). I'm putting these in order of likelihood although I have extremely scant experience and no expertise in corporate IT relationships so take "order of likelihood" with a grain of salt and swig of bourbon.
• AWS pulls site hosting: Immediate shutdown. Spinning up again on another service will be near-impossible since the data is effectively lost. Even if Amazon allows Parler a copy of the data, they have to find another distributed data service. While plenty will rush in to fill the gap they're unlikely to be able to match AWS's services at AWS's scale and are guaranteed to be more expensive. Parler will have to start more or less from scratch after an extended period of downtime, possibly even restrict video and image posting to get expenses down.
• CDN bans Parler: Transfer to new CDN. A big scramble by Parler's team but a relatively minor service disruption from the users' points of view. Potentially affects mobile apps depending on how they've been built, but should be unlikely.
• SSL provider revokes certificate: Dramatic user disruption. Presumably the site will find a new provider and actual uptime would not be affected much. The site should require all users to re-login but that depends on how they've configured things -- this often ends up resulting in a permanent loss of a minority of users. Any mobile apps could potentially be rendered useless until they're updated -- if Google and Apple's bans on the apps continue, the app is permanently dead if it can't handle cert updates.
• DNS registrar revokes entry: Immediate shutdown. Site data will be unaffected. Restarting will require a new domain name and PR campaign to call users back. Any mobile apps are rendered useless etc etc.
posted by at by at 7:22 AM on January 9, 2021 [22 favorites]
Let's run down the scenarios. Assume for now that no matter what happens, the Parler website will continue to exist and provide social media service.
• Apple and Google pull the app: No new app installs, no app updates. Every time somebody replaces their phone, they can't move or reinstall the app onto it. No immediate impact, but as time grinds on the app becomes less relevant because fewer people can use it. Eventually -- probably within two years -- it will be incompatible with current OSes and userbase will plummet into irrelevance.
• Apple and Google pull the app/dev cert: Immediate removal.
(In either of the above two scenarios, Android users will continue to be able to sideload the app but the means for doing so will be inaccessible to the average user. Depending on what happens there will be a small ecology of predatory services offering to bundle and sideload the app onto the user's phone for a small fee, which is pretty much guaranteed to include malware/spyware of some kind.)
The following scenarios are considerably less likely, because these services tend to be doctrinarily content-neutral, short of knowingly facilitating a small list of things that are illegal pretty much everywhere, such as child porn (Parler is awful in all kinds of ways but I suspect even they would proactively shut down and report to the authorities any accounts posting child porn). I'm putting these in order of likelihood although I have extremely scant experience and no expertise in corporate IT relationships so take "order of likelihood" with a grain of salt and swig of bourbon.
• AWS pulls site hosting: Immediate shutdown. Spinning up again on another service will be near-impossible since the data is effectively lost. Even if Amazon allows Parler a copy of the data, they have to find another distributed data service. While plenty will rush in to fill the gap they're unlikely to be able to match AWS's services at AWS's scale and are guaranteed to be more expensive. Parler will have to start more or less from scratch after an extended period of downtime, possibly even restrict video and image posting to get expenses down.
• CDN bans Parler: Transfer to new CDN. A big scramble by Parler's team but a relatively minor service disruption from the users' points of view. Potentially affects mobile apps depending on how they've been built, but should be unlikely.
• SSL provider revokes certificate: Dramatic user disruption. Presumably the site will find a new provider and actual uptime would not be affected much. The site should require all users to re-login but that depends on how they've configured things -- this often ends up resulting in a permanent loss of a minority of users. Any mobile apps could potentially be rendered useless until they're updated -- if Google and Apple's bans on the apps continue, the app is permanently dead if it can't handle cert updates.
• DNS registrar revokes entry: Immediate shutdown. Site data will be unaffected. Restarting will require a new domain name and PR campaign to call users back. Any mobile apps are rendered useless etc etc.
posted by at by at 7:22 AM on January 9, 2021 [22 favorites]
Bluesky43, that link is hiding behind a paywall for me. Got another source?
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 7:26 AM on January 9, 2021
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 7:26 AM on January 9, 2021
Gosh, if the self-centered sagas of all these wannabe revolutionaries — starting from the Donald and working wanking their way down — weren’t so comic, they’d be tragic.
Which they are.
posted by cenoxo at 7:29 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Which they are.
posted by cenoxo at 7:29 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
I just clicked the link I posted and it was ok. I'm not a subscriber so I dunno. Sorry! Maybe clear out your cookies or try another browser?
posted by bluesky43 at 7:29 AM on January 9, 2021
posted by bluesky43 at 7:29 AM on January 9, 2021
The Apple/Google app thing seems a little lame - doesn't pulling the app just mean its not available to new installs?
Preventing new installations is actually hugely important at this particular moment. How many of Trump's former eighty-million-plus Twitter followers do you think would have already installed Parler before Twitter booted him?
Also does it seem weird to anyone else that a far-right-wing Twitter-mimic chose the French word "to speak" for their name? Or was that animosity so 2003 or something?
posted by heatherlogan at 7:30 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
Preventing new installations is actually hugely important at this particular moment. How many of Trump's former eighty-million-plus Twitter followers do you think would have already installed Parler before Twitter booted him?
Also does it seem weird to anyone else that a far-right-wing Twitter-mimic chose the French word "to speak" for their name? Or was that animosity so 2003 or something?
posted by heatherlogan at 7:30 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
Here's the thing about the debate on whether Twitter banning Trump is censorship or not... It hinges on whether it's a private company exercising its right to deny a problematic customer access to its service or a piece of the public information infrastructure denying someone access.
Trump is the president of the United States. He is the head of government. The First Amendment right to free speech protects people from being compelled to speech by the government. People demanding Twitter be forced to publish Trump's lies are arguing that Twitter should be compelled to publish speech by the government. They are arguing for the destruction of the First Amendment.
If he were a private citizen, you might have to get to the argument you are making. But right now... this is complete slavery is freedom level fascist propaganda.
posted by Zalzidrax at 7:35 AM on January 9, 2021 [37 favorites]
Trump is the president of the United States. He is the head of government. The First Amendment right to free speech protects people from being compelled to speech by the government. People demanding Twitter be forced to publish Trump's lies are arguing that Twitter should be compelled to publish speech by the government. They are arguing for the destruction of the First Amendment.
If he were a private citizen, you might have to get to the argument you are making. But right now... this is complete slavery is freedom level fascist propaganda.
posted by Zalzidrax at 7:35 AM on January 9, 2021 [37 favorites]
Google cache of the Houston Chronicle Ted Cruz article.
posted by cenoxo at 7:36 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by cenoxo at 7:36 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
Seth Abramson
@SethAbramson
(THREAD) Media has yet to do a deep dive on precisely what Trump *said* in his January 6 speech in DC—a speech now called an "incitement to insurrection," and the basis for an article of impeachment coming Monday. This thread unpacks the speech.
/well worth a read
posted by bluesky43 at 7:38 AM on January 9, 2021 [44 favorites]
@SethAbramson
(THREAD) Media has yet to do a deep dive on precisely what Trump *said* in his January 6 speech in DC—a speech now called an "incitement to insurrection," and the basis for an article of impeachment coming Monday. This thread unpacks the speech.
/well worth a read
posted by bluesky43 at 7:38 AM on January 9, 2021 [44 favorites]
Censorship
I was wondering what Metafilter was going to argue about today.
posted by Melismata at 7:39 AM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
I was wondering what Metafilter was going to argue about today.
posted by Melismata at 7:39 AM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
Free Speech debates make me really want to ban Free Speech debates.
posted by srboisvert at 7:42 AM on January 9, 2021 [44 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 7:42 AM on January 9, 2021 [44 favorites]
Don't forget that Twitter has policies that allow them to ban "problematic customers" and they exercise those policies every day and they have openly admitted for YEARS that TRUMP VIOLATED THOSE POLICIES LONG AGO but until now THEY HAD A SPECIAL EXEMPTION FROM THE RULES FOR TRUMP because he was the President.
Accounts that did nothing but re-tweeet Trump tweets have literally been banned for content because they didn't have that exemption.
So expecting them not to ban him now is expecting a private company to maintain a special exemption to their rules for a government actor. I'm pretty sure that's not what the First Amendment covers.
posted by mmoncur at 7:44 AM on January 9, 2021 [26 favorites]
Accounts that did nothing but re-tweeet Trump tweets have literally been banned for content because they didn't have that exemption.
So expecting them not to ban him now is expecting a private company to maintain a special exemption to their rules for a government actor. I'm pretty sure that's not what the First Amendment covers.
posted by mmoncur at 7:44 AM on January 9, 2021 [26 favorites]
1. Messaging on impeachment should be “we are enforcing the law as we are responsible lawmakers” instead of “this is so beyond the pale we have to do something”. Obviously both are true but I think if the impeachment is framed the first way it undercuts the R’s ridiculous “law and order” branding. We can also frame this as “we are now in control and can do what we want” which is a position of strength that will cause a lot of cognitive dissonance in our opponents I believe. Getting Trump out of a 2024 election cycle is a big win and we should be able to pick up a few R senators just from that angle.
2. Comparisons between BLM and the enforcement against the insurrection are apt but I think counterproductive and only lead to simplistic false equivalences. We need people to think about BLM protests (which did in fact have right-wing terrorist agitators) totally separately from this insurrection, otherwise any legitimate goals of BLM will be undermined. Also, the Republican Terrorists’ goal here is to start a race war. Setting up these two protests against one another further perpetuates that narrative.
posted by The Ted at 7:46 AM on January 9, 2021 [18 favorites]
2. Comparisons between BLM and the enforcement against the insurrection are apt but I think counterproductive and only lead to simplistic false equivalences. We need people to think about BLM protests (which did in fact have right-wing terrorist agitators) totally separately from this insurrection, otherwise any legitimate goals of BLM will be undermined. Also, the Republican Terrorists’ goal here is to start a race war. Setting up these two protests against one another further perpetuates that narrative.
posted by The Ted at 7:46 AM on January 9, 2021 [18 favorites]
There is nothing "glorious" about police politely directing people towards an exit when those people just attempted a murder spree of an entire branch of government as part of a coup.
Given the degree to which the dipshit rabble outnumbered both the police and the organized murder contigent, leveraging the willingness of obvious marks to be conned yet again struck me as good, creative peacekeeping work. I would certainly rather see this kind of tactic being normal police practice than the reflexive reach for weapons that typifies so much US police culture.
From what I've seen so far of this invasion, the CP conducted themselves professionally and appropriately within the constraints imposed on them by the obvious lack of any realistic security plan. Much more so than police at any of the recent BLM events who were deployed in great numbers. And yes of course there are obvious reasons why that difference is what it is and of course the foulness of those reasons should be uncontroversial, but that doesn't change my view that police working smarter, not busting heads harder, is good to see as a first response and should be the standard of behaviour expected of police forces everywhere.
If you can frustrate a fuckwit's murderous intent simply by inducing them to walk out an exit they haven't even worked out is an exit, especially when doing so involves getting their face captured by a security camera, how is that not a good result?
posted by flabdablet at 7:50 AM on January 9, 2021 [27 favorites]
Given the degree to which the dipshit rabble outnumbered both the police and the organized murder contigent, leveraging the willingness of obvious marks to be conned yet again struck me as good, creative peacekeeping work. I would certainly rather see this kind of tactic being normal police practice than the reflexive reach for weapons that typifies so much US police culture.
From what I've seen so far of this invasion, the CP conducted themselves professionally and appropriately within the constraints imposed on them by the obvious lack of any realistic security plan. Much more so than police at any of the recent BLM events who were deployed in great numbers. And yes of course there are obvious reasons why that difference is what it is and of course the foulness of those reasons should be uncontroversial, but that doesn't change my view that police working smarter, not busting heads harder, is good to see as a first response and should be the standard of behaviour expected of police forces everywhere.
If you can frustrate a fuckwit's murderous intent simply by inducing them to walk out an exit they haven't even worked out is an exit, especially when doing so involves getting their face captured by a security camera, how is that not a good result?
posted by flabdablet at 7:50 AM on January 9, 2021 [27 favorites]
@acosta
DC bus stops now feature signs posted by the FBI seeking information about participants in the Capitol insurrection.
posted by bluesky43 at 7:51 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
DC bus stops now feature signs posted by the FBI seeking information about participants in the Capitol insurrection.
posted by bluesky43 at 7:51 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
Media has yet to do a deep dive on precisely what Trump *said* in his January 6 speech in DC—a speech now called an "incitement to insurrection," and the basis for an article of impeachment coming Monday. This thread unpacks the speech.I really do hope that the coup triggers a prosecution of Trump's rhetoric, and in doing so we set off a new venue of legal scholarship looking into the criminalization of stochastic terrorism. People know that they can say certain things that will instigate certain actions and if they keep saying it it will become an incitement to crime. They do it with intent and play with the fig leaf of lying about how they didn't really mean this or that.
We haven't prosecuted anyone formally for this because of worries around free speech, but, like, pornography, people know what dog whistle politics look like and they know that it can have corrosive effects and we need to address it as such.
posted by bl1nk at 7:52 AM on January 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
Don't forget that Twitter has policies that allow them to ban "problematic customers" and they exercise those policies every day and they have openly admitted for YEARS that TRUMP VIOLATED THOSE POLICIES LONG AGO but until now THEY HAD A SPECIAL EXEMPTION FROM THE RULES FOR TRUMP because he was the President.
This. There have been tons of comments here on MetaFilter about how it will be a great relief when he is finally banned. And now it happened a scaramucci before expected and people take out the stupid free speech guns, here, on this site?
Getting Trump out of a 2024 election cycle is a big win and we should be able to pick up a few R senators just from that angle.
Maybe? Anyway, I like the other consequences for Trump too: no secret service, no pension, no travel allowance. He will be exposed as the fraud he always was. Bigly!
posted by mumimor at 7:52 AM on January 9, 2021 [19 favorites]
This. There have been tons of comments here on MetaFilter about how it will be a great relief when he is finally banned. And now it happened a scaramucci before expected and people take out the stupid free speech guns, here, on this site?
Getting Trump out of a 2024 election cycle is a big win and we should be able to pick up a few R senators just from that angle.
Maybe? Anyway, I like the other consequences for Trump too: no secret service, no pension, no travel allowance. He will be exposed as the fraud he always was. Bigly!
posted by mumimor at 7:52 AM on January 9, 2021 [19 favorites]
If you can frustrate a fuckwit's murderous intent simply by inducing them to walk out an exit they haven't even worked out is an exit, how is that not a good result?
They didn't frustrate anybody's murderous intent, they let everybody who had realized they weren't going to be able to murder anybody out of the building, and now many of them will likely never face consequences for the attempted murders.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 7:55 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
They didn't frustrate anybody's murderous intent, they let everybody who had realized they weren't going to be able to murder anybody out of the building, and now many of them will likely never face consequences for the attempted murders.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 7:55 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
2 Seattle police officers being investigated for involvement in Capitol attack.
posted by JimInLoganSquare at 7:57 AM on January 9, 2021 [29 favorites]
posted by JimInLoganSquare at 7:57 AM on January 9, 2021 [29 favorites]
To zalzidrax and anyone else-- I missed the edit window by about ten seconds to add it but it's two comments below: I'm not against the ban on Trump and I don't think it's censorship. I'm arguing to break up Twitter.
I've been dancing on @realdonaldtrump's grave all night. Don't get it twisted. It's going to haunt me all day I didn't out that in the same comment because it makes it easy for people to take it exactly backwards.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:59 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
I've been dancing on @realdonaldtrump's grave all night. Don't get it twisted. It's going to haunt me all day I didn't out that in the same comment because it makes it easy for people to take it exactly backwards.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:59 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
they let everybody who had realized they weren't going to be able to murder anybody out of the building
True, but that happened well after the This Way To The Egress sequence that tickled my funny bone. The events I'm talking about were really early on, just a few minutes after the initial forced entry.
posted by flabdablet at 8:00 AM on January 9, 2021
True, but that happened well after the This Way To The Egress sequence that tickled my funny bone. The events I'm talking about were really early on, just a few minutes after the initial forced entry.
posted by flabdablet at 8:00 AM on January 9, 2021
Alex Jones says he paid $500,000 for rally that led to Capitol riot
Mr Jones pushed the conspiracy theory that antifa was responsible for Trump supporters attacking the US Capitol
He...claims the White House asked him to lead the march to the Capitol. In his words, the Secret Service was supposed to pull him out of the front row of Donald Trump's speech about a half hour before it ended and move him to the march starting point.
However, due to the large numbers of people who were still arriving even as Mr Trump spoke, Mr Jones ended up stuck between the group of people watching the president's speech and a second group that was already marching on the Capitol building.
posted by bluesky43 at 8:05 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
Mr Jones pushed the conspiracy theory that antifa was responsible for Trump supporters attacking the US Capitol
He...claims the White House asked him to lead the march to the Capitol. In his words, the Secret Service was supposed to pull him out of the front row of Donald Trump's speech about a half hour before it ended and move him to the march starting point.
However, due to the large numbers of people who were still arriving even as Mr Trump spoke, Mr Jones ended up stuck between the group of people watching the president's speech and a second group that was already marching on the Capitol building.
posted by bluesky43 at 8:05 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
Breaking up one Internet company doesn’t do anything. Platforms are membership. You can prevent them from acquiring other companies, but whatever the next hot thing is will just get a bazillion users. Napster went down, but streaming didn’t.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:07 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:07 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Comparisons between BLM and the enforcement against the insurrection are apt but I think counterproductive and only lead to simplistic false equivalences
I see what you're saying, but we are where we are today precisely because we continue to avoid discussing the literal and metaphorical elephant in the room, namely how the right-wing want to maintain racism in our society, in one important way, specifically: by making police unaccountable for their brutality and murder of Black people. The BLM protests over the summer were a peaceful response to several of those events, met with more acts of brutality and murder by LEO. The act of insurrection by white supremacists is as much a counter-response to that, as much as it is also a story about Trump inciting a mob to help overthrow the government and install him as a de facto dictator. I don't think you can make comparisons, but you cannot disconnect the two issues. Racism -- against Black people, by white Americans -- is at the very heart of this act of treachery.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:07 AM on January 9, 2021 [28 favorites]
I see what you're saying, but we are where we are today precisely because we continue to avoid discussing the literal and metaphorical elephant in the room, namely how the right-wing want to maintain racism in our society, in one important way, specifically: by making police unaccountable for their brutality and murder of Black people. The BLM protests over the summer were a peaceful response to several of those events, met with more acts of brutality and murder by LEO. The act of insurrection by white supremacists is as much a counter-response to that, as much as it is also a story about Trump inciting a mob to help overthrow the government and install him as a de facto dictator. I don't think you can make comparisons, but you cannot disconnect the two issues. Racism -- against Black people, by white Americans -- is at the very heart of this act of treachery.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:07 AM on January 9, 2021 [28 favorites]
That Houston Chronicle editorial is a thing of angry beauty.
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 8:07 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 8:07 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
Alex Jones is full of shit.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:08 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:08 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
I read "Worst. President. Ever." It was very good and I have felt sorry for the author and its timing ever since.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:08 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:08 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Why are we quoting anything Alex Jones says?
posted by PhineasGage at 8:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
posted by PhineasGage at 8:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
Jane Mayer, The New Yorker, interviews a Proud Boy who participated on Wednesday. Scary, interesting, and yet another illustration of the level and quality of thought involved on their side.
posted by AwkwardPause at 8:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by AwkwardPause at 8:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
Alex Jones is full of shit.
Agreed but it also points to the pre-meditation and orchestration of this riot by Trump and his supporters. It's evidence.
posted by bluesky43 at 8:10 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
Agreed but it also points to the pre-meditation and orchestration of this riot by Trump and his supporters. It's evidence.
posted by bluesky43 at 8:10 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
I really don't know what the solution is for Twitter having an insane, irresponsible amount of power is. But a third rate game show host authoritarian just used it to become the most powerful person on earth for four years, so I'm interested in exploring remedies.
There is something deeply, deeply weird and unsettling that being deplatformed off of Twitter was a far, far more profound check on Trump's power than being impeached for criminal misconduct by the United States House of Representatives.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:12 AM on January 9, 2021 [80 favorites]
There is something deeply, deeply weird and unsettling that being deplatformed off of Twitter was a far, far more profound check on Trump's power than being impeached for criminal misconduct by the United States House of Representatives.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:12 AM on January 9, 2021 [80 favorites]
2 Seattle police officers being investigated for involvement in Capitol attack.
To the credit of the acting police chief Adrian Diaz, he has promised that those officers will be fired, if it is determined they participated in the riot. Getting rid of dirty cops is something that the disgraced former chief Carmen Best deliberately failed at.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:12 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
To the credit of the acting police chief Adrian Diaz, he has promised that those officers will be fired, if it is determined they participated in the riot. Getting rid of dirty cops is something that the disgraced former chief Carmen Best deliberately failed at.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:12 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
So the bar for "what does it take for a cop to get fired?" has been set at "literal treason." Good to know!
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:14 AM on January 9, 2021 [39 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:14 AM on January 9, 2021 [39 favorites]
> To the credit of the acting police chief Adrian Diaz, he has promised that those officers will be fired, if it is determined they participated in the riot.
That "if" is carrying a lot of water, being contingent on a police force's own recognizance.
posted by at by at 8:17 AM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
That "if" is carrying a lot of water, being contingent on a police force's own recognizance.
posted by at by at 8:17 AM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
Breaking up one Internet company doesn’t do anything. Platforms are membership. You can prevent them from acquiring other companies, bu5 whatever the next hot thing is will just get a bazillion users. Napster went down, but streaming didn’t.
Yeah, exactly; not to derail but I genuinely don't understand what "breaking up Twitter" means.
AFAIK the arguments for "breaking up", say, Facebook, are that they've come to dominate at least partly by engaging in monopolistic practices like buying potential competitors Instagram and WhatsApp and other social media sites & apps that they've then shut down. You break them up because they're stifling competition. And in theory we could force them to divest themselves of other social media companies and not buy new social media companies.
Twitter has done much less of that, AFAICT, so what is there to "break up"?
Insisting that they enforce their policies in a coherent fashion and have much stricter policies for hate speech and harassment and etc is certainly a thing that should be looked at, but that's not "breaking up" anything.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:19 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
Yeah, exactly; not to derail but I genuinely don't understand what "breaking up Twitter" means.
AFAIK the arguments for "breaking up", say, Facebook, are that they've come to dominate at least partly by engaging in monopolistic practices like buying potential competitors Instagram and WhatsApp and other social media sites & apps that they've then shut down. You break them up because they're stifling competition. And in theory we could force them to divest themselves of other social media companies and not buy new social media companies.
Twitter has done much less of that, AFAICT, so what is there to "break up"?
Insisting that they enforce their policies in a coherent fashion and have much stricter policies for hate speech and harassment and etc is certainly a thing that should be looked at, but that's not "breaking up" anything.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:19 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
I also wish comeuppance for bad cops, but I don't know that couching it in har-har-har-our-penal-system-is-a-murderous-hellscape is the best way to express that.
Benefit of the doubt though, and I'll assume you're just saying they should be at the mercy of the system they help uphold. Kinda gross still though.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:21 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Benefit of the doubt though, and I'll assume you're just saying they should be at the mercy of the system they help uphold. Kinda gross still though.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:21 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
To me 'breaking up' the social media platforms looks a lot like Mastodon and the Fediverse.
Get back to something like a website and email setup, with different providers having the ability to supply access to the protocols.
posted by MattWPBS at 8:23 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Get back to something like a website and email setup, with different providers having the ability to supply access to the protocols.
posted by MattWPBS at 8:23 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Technology has moved past that unfortunately. More critically, people want the social aspects of global communication platforms AND the ability to instantly self post. Which makes them hard to moderate prior to posting.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:26 AM on January 9, 2021
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:26 AM on January 9, 2021
Should we break Twitter up? Or regulate it more? I don't know. But it's deeply unbalanced that getting kicked off of Twitter may have done more to end Trump than anything Congress could manage. Arguably, it's done more to shut him up than losing reelection.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:27 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:27 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Also does it seem weird to anyone else that a far-right-wing Twitter-mimic chose the French word "to speak" for their name?
I assumed they didn't know it's French and instead took the term from the Pirates of the Caribbean movie.
posted by Mitheral at 8:30 AM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
I assumed they didn't know it's French and instead took the term from the Pirates of the Caribbean movie.
posted by Mitheral at 8:30 AM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
Why are we quoting anything Alex Jones says?
The folks at the Knowledge Fight podcast did a fairly deep dive into what Jones' involvement/actions were the day of. There's a fair bit of daylight between what Jones says had the money to do or not. What we do know is that he's been winding people up about various bogus grievances and conspiracy bullshit for years and years so his incitement predates January 2021 by quite a bit. It didn't happen overnight.
He was early to the social media deplatforming parade and subject to legal action by parents of children killed at Sandy Hook, against whom Jones was literally deploying his followers. It never should have come to that, and it just goes to show that it's always been possible for the companies in question to take action:
...a Facebook spokesperson said: “More content from the same pages has been reported to us – upon review, we have taken it down for glorifying violence, which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanising language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies.”
The spokesperson noted that, despite the focus on Jones’s role in spreading conspiracy theories around events such as the 9/11 attacks and Sandy Hook school shooting, “none of the violations that spurred today’s removals were related to this”.
It took them a hell of a long time to get to "Surely, this."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:30 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
The folks at the Knowledge Fight podcast did a fairly deep dive into what Jones' involvement/actions were the day of. There's a fair bit of daylight between what Jones says had the money to do or not. What we do know is that he's been winding people up about various bogus grievances and conspiracy bullshit for years and years so his incitement predates January 2021 by quite a bit. It didn't happen overnight.
He was early to the social media deplatforming parade and subject to legal action by parents of children killed at Sandy Hook, against whom Jones was literally deploying his followers. It never should have come to that, and it just goes to show that it's always been possible for the companies in question to take action:
...a Facebook spokesperson said: “More content from the same pages has been reported to us – upon review, we have taken it down for glorifying violence, which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanising language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies.”
The spokesperson noted that, despite the focus on Jones’s role in spreading conspiracy theories around events such as the 9/11 attacks and Sandy Hook school shooting, “none of the violations that spurred today’s removals were related to this”.
It took them a hell of a long time to get to "Surely, this."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:30 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
Exactly. So now let's never speak of Alex Jones again?
posted by PhineasGage at 8:32 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by PhineasGage at 8:32 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
Nationalize / utility-ize big tech? "The Congress shall have power...To establish Post Offices and post Roads"
Maybe someone needs to define what a post road is in the digital age. A way of delivering messages, right?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:34 AM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
Maybe someone needs to define what a post road is in the digital age. A way of delivering messages, right?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:34 AM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
I remember when Australia's publicly owned Telecom ran an efnet server. Efnet was a text-chat network, pre-smartphones. A sort of proto-twitter. It's been around since the 80s, it's not like an innovation Twitter invented. For a while in Australia it was hosted by the government itself.
Something to think about. Also, as much as I delight in Trump's ban, I would like Twitter itself to go away. They didn't invent anything, they just popularized something as old as the internet itself. We can use something else! And I wish it wouldn't dominate the conversation here. It's important, but we're nitpicking.
posted by adept256 at 8:36 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Something to think about. Also, as much as I delight in Trump's ban, I would like Twitter itself to go away. They didn't invent anything, they just popularized something as old as the internet itself. We can use something else! And I wish it wouldn't dominate the conversation here. It's important, but we're nitpicking.
posted by adept256 at 8:36 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
MetaFilter: It's important, but we're nitpicking.
posted by mazola at 8:40 AM on January 9, 2021 [27 favorites]
posted by mazola at 8:40 AM on January 9, 2021 [27 favorites]
Chris Hayes: “It is entirely possible that there were people in that crowd, looking to apprehend, possibly harm, and possibly murder the leaders of the political class that the President, and people like Mo Brooks, and even to a certain extent Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley, have told them have betrayed them."
Jan. 8, 2021
/harrowing video
posted by bluesky43 at 8:48 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
Jan. 8, 2021
/harrowing video
posted by bluesky43 at 8:48 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
We wouldn’t want Russia as they’ll continue to use him effectively in destabilizing the US. But North Korea seems nice this time of year.
The Trump Ryugyong?
posted by Thorzdad at 8:49 AM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
The Trump Ryugyong?
posted by Thorzdad at 8:49 AM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
has anybody said this yet? If so, please ignore.
One of the things right of centre types tend to accuse so-called progressives of is lacking in common sense. We get so bound up in our correct "policies" we end up not just letting Hitler invade Poland, we tell him what road to take and provide him with a free hot lunch.
It's common fucking sense to take Trump's social media access away. He's been driving drunk in an armoured truck on the info-super-highway wreaking havoc for years. Fuck his rights. Take away his license permanently. I don't care who does it.
and then we can turn Facebook, Twitter etc into public utilities -- I'm all in favour of that
posted by philip-random at 8:52 AM on January 9, 2021 [28 favorites]
One of the things right of centre types tend to accuse so-called progressives of is lacking in common sense. We get so bound up in our correct "policies" we end up not just letting Hitler invade Poland, we tell him what road to take and provide him with a free hot lunch.
It's common fucking sense to take Trump's social media access away. He's been driving drunk in an armoured truck on the info-super-highway wreaking havoc for years. Fuck his rights. Take away his license permanently. I don't care who does it.
and then we can turn Facebook, Twitter etc into public utilities -- I'm all in favour of that
posted by philip-random at 8:52 AM on January 9, 2021 [28 favorites]
“Breaking up” a closed silo platform would mean turning it into a protocol, allowing adversarial interoperability and busting lock-in. Doing it to Twitter would result in something like Mastodon. Doing it to Facebook (the platform) would involve engineering a way to allow per-post protection levels to operate across platforms (presumably using some sort of cryptographic protocol).
posted by acb at 8:54 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by acb at 8:54 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
If I could interview anyone on earth right now, I might choose Mike Pence. Imagine your boss and other members of your political party encouraging a violent mob to storm your workplace and murder you and your family, and *still* being opposed to active efforts to remove him from his position of power. Pence's canine devotion to Trump has always been morbidly fascinating to me, and it seems as though he's still clinging to...what? I guess if you're a high-level Republican it's party over country, your own family, your own life and probably God.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:00 AM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:00 AM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
Hey I want to go back to this:
• AWS pulls site hosting: Immediate shutdown. Spinning up again on another service will be near-impossible since the data is effectively lost. Even if Amazon allows Parler a copy of the data, they have to find another distributed data service. While plenty will rush in to fill the gap they're unlikely to be able to match AWS's services at AWS's scale and are guaranteed to be more expensive. Parler will have to start more or less from scratch after an extended period of downtime, possibly even restrict video and image posting to get expenses down.
While on a gut level I agree that this unlikely to happen, is this something we can collectively call for or otherwise help to facilitate? Because this is something I would very much like to facilitate.
posted by DingoMutt at 9:00 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
• AWS pulls site hosting: Immediate shutdown. Spinning up again on another service will be near-impossible since the data is effectively lost. Even if Amazon allows Parler a copy of the data, they have to find another distributed data service. While plenty will rush in to fill the gap they're unlikely to be able to match AWS's services at AWS's scale and are guaranteed to be more expensive. Parler will have to start more or less from scratch after an extended period of downtime, possibly even restrict video and image posting to get expenses down.
While on a gut level I agree that this unlikely to happen, is this something we can collectively call for or otherwise help to facilitate? Because this is something I would very much like to facilitate.
posted by DingoMutt at 9:00 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Fuck his rights. Take away his license permanently. I don't care who does it.
It's like swatting a fly. I loathe to take life, but also, fuck you, fly.
posted by dmh at 9:02 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
It's like swatting a fly. I loathe to take life, but also, fuck you, fly.
posted by dmh at 9:02 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
The AWS acceptable use policy says, in part, that:
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 9:05 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
Prohibited activities or content include:(emphasis added)
Illegal, Harmful or Fraudulent Activities. Any activities that are illegal, that violate the rights of others, or that may be harmful to others, our operations or reputation, including disseminating, promoting or facilitating child pornography, offering or disseminating fraudulent goods, services, schemes, or promotions, make-money-fast schemes, ponzi and pyramid schemes, phishing, or pharming.
...
Offensive Content. Content that is defamatory, obscene, abusive, invasive of privacy, or otherwise objectionable, including content that constitutes child pornography, relates to bestiality, or depicts non-consensual sex acts.
...
If you become aware of any violation of this Policy, you will immediately notify us and provide us with assistance, as requested, to stop or remedy the violation. To report any violation of this Policy, please follow our abuse reporting process.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 9:05 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
Pence's canine devotion to Trump
No no no, I will not have that said about dogs. I smirked when someone said his face was like the underside of a stingray, but he's more like one of those things that cling under a shark's maw. Always swimming close, lest he becomes dinner.
posted by adept256 at 9:06 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
No no no, I will not have that said about dogs. I smirked when someone said his face was like the underside of a stingray, but he's more like one of those things that cling under a shark's maw. Always swimming close, lest he becomes dinner.
posted by adept256 at 9:06 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
I am not a dog person, but all the same I apologize for comparing Pence's parasitic relationship to Donald Trump to the loyalty and friendship members of that noble species have to and with human beings.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
Pence's canine devotion to Trump has always been morbidly fascinating to me, and it seems as though he's still clinging to...what? I guess if you're a high-level Republican it's party over country, your own family, your own life and probably God.
My theory is that he is just really, really stupid. Also, he probably doesn't quite know yet what went on in the same detail as the rest of us do. Remember, he was taken to safety very early on. And he doesn't seem to me to be someone who spends a lot of time looking at different news sorces. If Fox News isn't telling him he could have been murdered, he won't know till someone else tells him, and that might not be for days.
posted by mumimor at 9:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
My theory is that he is just really, really stupid. Also, he probably doesn't quite know yet what went on in the same detail as the rest of us do. Remember, he was taken to safety very early on. And he doesn't seem to me to be someone who spends a lot of time looking at different news sorces. If Fox News isn't telling him he could have been murdered, he won't know till someone else tells him, and that might not be for days.
posted by mumimor at 9:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
Nationalize / utility-ize big tech? "The Congress shall have power...To establish Post Offices and post Roads"
Maybe someone needs to define what a post road is in the digital age. A way of delivering messages, right?
A government-run messageboard will be constrained from approximately any moderation at all. Virulent racism is protected speech; Twitter could choose to ban it because it's a private company. The government can't make it illegal to say certain things, and it also can't condition government benefits based on most stuff you say. A free GovFilter would be required to host nearly every kind of speech out there that isn't literally illegal.
posted by BungaDunga at 9:10 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
Maybe someone needs to define what a post road is in the digital age. A way of delivering messages, right?
A government-run messageboard will be constrained from approximately any moderation at all. Virulent racism is protected speech; Twitter could choose to ban it because it's a private company. The government can't make it illegal to say certain things, and it also can't condition government benefits based on most stuff you say. A free GovFilter would be required to host nearly every kind of speech out there that isn't literally illegal.
posted by BungaDunga at 9:10 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
Confederate Battle Flag an Unnerving Sight in Capitol (NYT)
Amid the images and videos that emerged from Wednesday’s rampage, the sight of a man casually carrying the Confederate battle flag outside the Senate floor was a piercing reminder of the persistence of white supremacism more than 150 years after the end of the Civil War.
posted by bluesky43 at 9:11 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Amid the images and videos that emerged from Wednesday’s rampage, the sight of a man casually carrying the Confederate battle flag outside the Senate floor was a piercing reminder of the persistence of white supremacism more than 150 years after the end of the Civil War.
posted by bluesky43 at 9:11 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
I think Pence is angry enough at Trump, but he doesn't want the GOP to take the L. He must think that if Trump can be wrestled under control for the next twelve days and we can have a normal swearing in, everything can be swept under the rug.
I'm so scared about the inauguration day. But then, I think, after reading what I have, that it was the Capitol Police that were unprepared and/or complicit, not the National Guard, and they will be in the city. I read they are planning to use nonlethal force. I hope they change their mind, or at least use the hard shit, like rubber bullets and tear gas.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:11 AM on January 9, 2021
I'm so scared about the inauguration day. But then, I think, after reading what I have, that it was the Capitol Police that were unprepared and/or complicit, not the National Guard, and they will be in the city. I read they are planning to use nonlethal force. I hope they change their mind, or at least use the hard shit, like rubber bullets and tear gas.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:11 AM on January 9, 2021
"it's bad that Twitter is banning Trump because it empowers Twitter to ban even more" thing quite a lot on Twitter today, and I keep wracking my brain to try to figure out what else to do that is better.
You don't have to wrack your brain. The first step is very simple and could be done tomorrow. Remove their Section 230 exemption that immunizes them from all the laws that everyone else has to follow, like CNN or the New York Times.
Zuckerberg and Dorsey have been lying for years, saying it's just too hard to moderate their platforms, yet last night we found out they can do it in literally two minutes, over and over. They haven't wanted to do it because it will cost them money, both in labor and in advertising. Trump has been good for them. It's made them fabulously rich.
It's astonishing that we have given this power to billionaire capitalists and then have to beg and beg them for years to do even the minimum. This isn't some natural law that exists. It is a power given to them, not by constitutional amendment, because it has nothing to do with the First Amendment. It is a power given to the billionaire capitalists by our Congress through millions of dollars of lobbyist money. Time to take the power back and put them on an equal footing with every other form of the free press. No more begging Zuckerberg and Dorsey.
posted by JackFlash at 9:12 AM on January 9, 2021 [47 favorites]
You don't have to wrack your brain. The first step is very simple and could be done tomorrow. Remove their Section 230 exemption that immunizes them from all the laws that everyone else has to follow, like CNN or the New York Times.
Zuckerberg and Dorsey have been lying for years, saying it's just too hard to moderate their platforms, yet last night we found out they can do it in literally two minutes, over and over. They haven't wanted to do it because it will cost them money, both in labor and in advertising. Trump has been good for them. It's made them fabulously rich.
It's astonishing that we have given this power to billionaire capitalists and then have to beg and beg them for years to do even the minimum. This isn't some natural law that exists. It is a power given to them, not by constitutional amendment, because it has nothing to do with the First Amendment. It is a power given to the billionaire capitalists by our Congress through millions of dollars of lobbyist money. Time to take the power back and put them on an equal footing with every other form of the free press. No more begging Zuckerberg and Dorsey.
posted by JackFlash at 9:12 AM on January 9, 2021 [47 favorites]
I'm surprised and disappointed that there has been so little discussion of the fact that so much of Twitter's power explicitly comes from the media's obsession with reporting on whatever meaningless nonsense politicians and celebrities vomit forth on the platform. Media have given Twitter most of its power and influence and they could easily withdraw it if their reporters, editors, and owners were more concerned with responsibility and ethics than they are with profit.
posted by ElKevbo at 9:14 AM on January 9, 2021 [95 favorites]
posted by ElKevbo at 9:14 AM on January 9, 2021 [95 favorites]
re: Houston Chronicle
I fully support the piece. But it should be pointed out, Houston Chronicle rates as having a Left-Center Bias at MediaBiasFactCheck (a great source by the way). In other words, it's unlikely that the piece is going to have much penetration into the wilds of the hearts and minds of hard-right Texas.
But what do I know? I've never been within a thousand miles of Texas.
posted by philip-random at 9:16 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
I fully support the piece. But it should be pointed out, Houston Chronicle rates as having a Left-Center Bias at MediaBiasFactCheck (a great source by the way). In other words, it's unlikely that the piece is going to have much penetration into the wilds of the hearts and minds of hard-right Texas.
But what do I know? I've never been within a thousand miles of Texas.
posted by philip-random at 9:16 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
> If Fox News isn't telling him he could have been murdered, he won't know till someone else tells him, and that might not be for days.
If true, that would be some real "They're saying Boo-urns!"-style shit.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:16 AM on January 9, 2021
If true, that would be some real "They're saying Boo-urns!"-style shit.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:16 AM on January 9, 2021
ElKevbo flagged for Fantastic Comment.
posted by PhineasGage at 9:17 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by PhineasGage at 9:17 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
2 Seattle police officers being investigated for involvement in Capitol attack.
As a NW resident, this comes as no surprise, the Seattle PD is a den of Nazis.
posted by maxwelton at 9:18 AM on January 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
As a NW resident, this comes as no surprise, the Seattle PD is a den of Nazis.
posted by maxwelton at 9:18 AM on January 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
So if we had a government run Twitter, who would control it right now? I mean NPRs doing an ok job right now, but they are sure having to play a lot of both siderism. You likely need a combination of state and independent information sources.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:18 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:18 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Media have given Twitter most of its power and influence and they could easily withdraw it if their reporters, editors, and owners were more concerned with responsibility and ethics than they are with profit.
True enough, but I think this is also a function of how Trump operated. He'd have a press conference, announce that "I'm going to do this thing" eliciting reactions of horror; then walk back the thing in another press conference or release after being corralled by relatively sane people in the administration; then announce later on twitter "I'm totally doing the thing" or at least complain about how he wasn't allowed to do the thing that he really wanted to do.
posted by LionIndex at 9:23 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
True enough, but I think this is also a function of how Trump operated. He'd have a press conference, announce that "I'm going to do this thing" eliciting reactions of horror; then walk back the thing in another press conference or release after being corralled by relatively sane people in the administration; then announce later on twitter "I'm totally doing the thing" or at least complain about how he wasn't allowed to do the thing that he really wanted to do.
posted by LionIndex at 9:23 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
As a NW resident, this comes as no surprise, the Seattle PD is a den of Nazis.
It doesn't stop at Seattle PD, as we have seen with how little the cops around here give a flying fuck about our governor. They hang out calling him "King Inslee." I have very little doubt cops wouldn't come to his aid in a scenario where terrorists were holding him hostage.
posted by deadaluspark at 9:23 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
It doesn't stop at Seattle PD, as we have seen with how little the cops around here give a flying fuck about our governor. They hang out calling him "King Inslee." I have very little doubt cops wouldn't come to his aid in a scenario where terrorists were holding him hostage.
posted by deadaluspark at 9:23 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Could we maybe treat this thread as an active information-source thread instead of a pontificating about social media thread?
posted by Think_Long at 9:24 AM on January 9, 2021 [61 favorites]
posted by Think_Long at 9:24 AM on January 9, 2021 [61 favorites]
Because it would literally take tens of thousands of people to staff that at human rates of speed. You would still be waiting to post comments from two days ago on a site as low traffic as our home here in the blue, let alone a global platform. The math is hard.?
Sounds like an even more lucrative jobs program than the TSA.
/S
posted by deadaluspark at 9:24 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Sounds like an even more lucrative jobs program than the TSA.
/S
posted by deadaluspark at 9:24 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
This morning’s episode of NPR On The Media was fantastic and went from whether “coup” is appropriate to a deep discussion of the relationship of this week to the Lost Cause (including whether it’s facile to draw parallels), and then a lengthy discussion of the song “The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down” by the Band. Highly recommended. On The Media is consistently amazing actually.
posted by freecellwizard at 9:25 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by freecellwizard at 9:25 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
According to Fox News the “Patriots” shirts that read “Die Pence. Die” were actually German and correctly translated said “The Pence. The” no one who German could be an evil man.
posted by interogative mood at 9:25 AM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 9:25 AM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
> Twitter's power explicitly comes from the media's obsession with reporting on whatever meaningless nonsense politicians and celebrities vomit forth on the platform
What motivates the media to do that? Because, as a group, we are obsessed with that bullshit and it makes them a shitton of money through advertising. Until we can figure out a way to, for lack of a better term, "Butlerian Jihad" the modern advertising-media complex, we will be unable to change the downward trajectory of human existence in the modern disinformation age.
This is not something that will happen overnight, and I don't have any answers, but until we, as a civilization, can come to terms with this, we are doomed to continue this current path of exponentially-expanding reality-schisms, at increasing war with ourselves, with the poorest and least fortunate forever falling into the widening gaps and bearing the highest costs.
posted by glonous keming at 9:25 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
What motivates the media to do that? Because, as a group, we are obsessed with that bullshit and it makes them a shitton of money through advertising. Until we can figure out a way to, for lack of a better term, "Butlerian Jihad" the modern advertising-media complex, we will be unable to change the downward trajectory of human existence in the modern disinformation age.
This is not something that will happen overnight, and I don't have any answers, but until we, as a civilization, can come to terms with this, we are doomed to continue this current path of exponentially-expanding reality-schisms, at increasing war with ourselves, with the poorest and least fortunate forever falling into the widening gaps and bearing the highest costs.
posted by glonous keming at 9:25 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Didn't Trump have like 88 million Twitter followers
Well, that's a little on-the-nose.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 9:27 AM on January 9, 2021 [49 favorites]
Well, that's a little on-the-nose.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 9:27 AM on January 9, 2021 [49 favorites]
I also think making it easy for stupid people to log in was a great tragedy,
The problem with this attitude was that even before it was "easy for stupid people to log in" plenty of people who had no troubles handling the technology to log in were plenty stupid and spouting off all kinds of racist dogshit long before the Eternal September.
Old internet was just full of white dudes, is that really something to desire to go back to?
posted by deadaluspark at 9:29 AM on January 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
The problem with this attitude was that even before it was "easy for stupid people to log in" plenty of people who had no troubles handling the technology to log in were plenty stupid and spouting off all kinds of racist dogshit long before the Eternal September.
Old internet was just full of white dudes, is that really something to desire to go back to?
posted by deadaluspark at 9:29 AM on January 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
So if we had a government run Twitter, who would control it right now?
Not to mention who might control it later. Regimes change and seek their own levels of surveillance and control: don’t let the pendulum swing too far.
posted by cenoxo at 9:29 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
Not to mention who might control it later. Regimes change and seek their own levels of surveillance and control: don’t let the pendulum swing too far.
posted by cenoxo at 9:29 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
if an app is no longer supported by apple/googleplay, what recourse is there for the browser version?
As others have pointed out, the solution is to go after their hosting provider, which in this case is Amazon / AWS. Depending on how the site is designed, it might not be very easy for it to run on anything other than AWS. (There are ways you can design a website to be portable across cloud hosts, but it's not trivial and I'm betting whoever developed Parler didn't do it. Time will tell, I guess.)
It becomes a sort of whack-a-mole game of chasing down increasingly seedy web hosts until they have no place left to go. Which is exactly what has happened to Stormfront, 8chan, and other explicitly white nationalist sites: they've been slowly pushed off most mainstream web hosts and (last I checked) were running on some overseas web hosting because nobody in the US would touch them.
I'd love to see them driven all the way back to text-only posts on Usenet.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:29 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
As others have pointed out, the solution is to go after their hosting provider, which in this case is Amazon / AWS. Depending on how the site is designed, it might not be very easy for it to run on anything other than AWS. (There are ways you can design a website to be portable across cloud hosts, but it's not trivial and I'm betting whoever developed Parler didn't do it. Time will tell, I guess.)
It becomes a sort of whack-a-mole game of chasing down increasingly seedy web hosts until they have no place left to go. Which is exactly what has happened to Stormfront, 8chan, and other explicitly white nationalist sites: they've been slowly pushed off most mainstream web hosts and (last I checked) were running on some overseas web hosting because nobody in the US would touch them.
I'd love to see them driven all the way back to text-only posts on Usenet.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:29 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
I'd love to see them driven all the way back to text-only posts on Usenet.
Don't do that to those of use who still happen to use Usenet. It's bad enough in there as it is.
posted by deadaluspark at 9:30 AM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
Don't do that to those of use who still happen to use Usenet. It's bad enough in there as it is.
posted by deadaluspark at 9:30 AM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
CNN Disturbing video shows officer crushed against door by mob
They arent holding back in the analysis: "This is the cost of the president's lies."
posted by Lanark at 9:33 AM on January 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
They arent holding back in the analysis: "This is the cost of the president's lies."
posted by Lanark at 9:33 AM on January 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
There's Nothing Like This On Our Side
In response to the news that Twitter has permanently banned Donald Trump from its platform, Conor Friedersdorf tweeted:posted by tonycpsu at 9:33 AM on January 9, 2021 [52 favorites]A thought exercise for *this is an easy question* folks on the left: if Peter Thiel were CEO of Twitter or Facebook, would you still think *removing a politician who acts very badly has no at least concerning implications beyond the case in question*? Of course not.[...] This takes me back to a pointless thought exercise we were occasionally encouraged to engage in during the Trump years: Someone would ask, If Trump were a Democrat, would Democrats have embraced him? And we were all expected to nod sagely and say, Yes, that could have happened. Trump was never ideologically pure. Democrats might just as easily have embraced a populist demagogue like Trump.
Except that we wouldn't have embraced Trump or someone like him. We never do.
Over the years, Democrats have had the opportunity to embrace far less dangerous demagogues than Trump -- Alan Grayson, Michael Avenatti -- and we passed. The Democratic mainstream rejects conspiracy theories -- for instance, that 9/11
was an inside job.
So you can't ask Friedersdorf's question as an abstraction. The answer depends on the specific behavior of the politcian, and the politician's fan base. Trump's Twitter feed has been Rwandan radio for some time now, and he has a large following eager to burn the government down. Until there's something comparable on our side, Friedersdorf's question is moot.
CNN Disturbing video shows officer crushed against door by mob
Blue lives...
I just can't even bring myself to mock them anymore. They're so completely off the fucking rails it feels like they need to be locked up permanently because I don't know what the fuck else to do with people that completely out of touch with reality and who have so few scruples.
Like, literally EVERYTHING they say they support they turn on the second it inconveniences them.
posted by deadaluspark at 9:38 AM on January 9, 2021 [19 favorites]
Blue lives...
I just can't even bring myself to mock them anymore. They're so completely off the fucking rails it feels like they need to be locked up permanently because I don't know what the fuck else to do with people that completely out of touch with reality and who have so few scruples.
Like, literally EVERYTHING they say they support they turn on the second it inconveniences them.
posted by deadaluspark at 9:38 AM on January 9, 2021 [19 favorites]
McKayliegh's statement the other day began, "I speak on behalf of the White House," and did not mention the President at any time and I am left genuinely concerned that Alexander Haig might not even be in charge of the White House right now.
posted by dances with hamsters at 9:39 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by dances with hamsters at 9:39 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
Agreed but it also points to the pre-meditation and orchestration of this riot by Trump and his supporters
I think this is a really important point. As a private citizen, if I planned a large rally, then stood up on a stage before a rally, and said "Come on, guys, let's take the capitol!" and everyone cheered and started doing it and then four people were dead, I would absolutely be arrested.
posted by corb at 9:41 AM on January 9, 2021 [47 favorites]
I think this is a really important point. As a private citizen, if I planned a large rally, then stood up on a stage before a rally, and said "Come on, guys, let's take the capitol!" and everyone cheered and started doing it and then four people were dead, I would absolutely be arrested.
posted by corb at 9:41 AM on January 9, 2021 [47 favorites]
Until there's something comparable on our side, Friedersdorf's question is moot.
Not only that, but white nationalists like Peter Thiel and Joel Kaplan are executives with massive amounts of power in the company, and who have already used that power to suppress leftist speech while promoting violent conservative rhetoric on the platform. They're a big part of the reason why it got so bad in the first place!
But then again, Friedersdorf's one of the "cancel culture" flagbearers, and right now the general consensus among that crew seems to be that this coup is ultimately the fault of "wokeness" and BLM.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 9:44 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
Not only that, but white nationalists like Peter Thiel and Joel Kaplan are executives with massive amounts of power in the company, and who have already used that power to suppress leftist speech while promoting violent conservative rhetoric on the platform. They're a big part of the reason why it got so bad in the first place!
But then again, Friedersdorf's one of the "cancel culture" flagbearers, and right now the general consensus among that crew seems to be that this coup is ultimately the fault of "wokeness" and BLM.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 9:44 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
Nobody's mentioned Bebo yet.
Or Usenet.
It's been a while in thread time so apologies if this came up already, but...
Livejournal.
posted by subdee at 9:47 AM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Or Usenet.
It's been a while in thread time so apologies if this came up already, but...
Livejournal.
posted by subdee at 9:47 AM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Like, literally EVERYTHING they say they support they turn on the second it inconveniences them.
I watched the whole of that Jayden X video, at several points the camera man tries to sweet talk a way through the security line with a bunch of lies "I wouldn't want you guys to get hurt, just let us through we are going to be peaceful, we just want to stage a sit in", when that fails to work, the mob switches tactics and just rams their way through.
They say one thing and then do the exact opposite a heartbeat later.
posted by Lanark at 9:50 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
I watched the whole of that Jayden X video, at several points the camera man tries to sweet talk a way through the security line with a bunch of lies "I wouldn't want you guys to get hurt, just let us through we are going to be peaceful, we just want to stage a sit in", when that fails to work, the mob switches tactics and just rams their way through.
They say one thing and then do the exact opposite a heartbeat later.
posted by Lanark at 9:50 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
It’s ok to not post if we don’t have new information. I think I’ve got a handle on Section 230 now.
posted by kerf at 9:50 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by kerf at 9:50 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
Here's the link for the On the Media episode mentioned upstream. I put it on my list for later today, so thanks for that.
Breaking the Myth
posted by bluesky43 at 9:51 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Breaking the Myth
posted by bluesky43 at 9:51 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
What kind of bozo would believe that lie tho???? You gotta be grasping for any straw.
posted by subdee at 9:54 AM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by subdee at 9:54 AM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Sounds like an even more lucrative jobs program than the TSA
I laughed, but on the other hand? A federal jobs guarantee for a vast army of admins and mods, fact checking and screening the vast digital cesspit for lies and abuse kind of ticks a lot of boxes for me. A Works-From-Home Progress program for the vast numbers of us who clearly have way too much time on our hands. The FBI deputizes Snopes or something, and then hires by the thousands. We would probably need to live in a fundamentally different sort of culture for this to really work and not go horribly but geez, if we already have this vast digital surveillance apparatus that tracks our every move and tries to shape our desires non stop, we might as well get some use out of it as a nation and a people.
For instance: Postmates always seems to know when I'm feeling sad or stressed enough to give a coupon code some extra consideration. Certainly I use my phone differently in such times, it can't be hard to spot. What if I got a text from one of the thousands of dedicated counselors at the Federal Bureau of Men Really Dealing With Their Shit Finally instead of the option to have several pounds of nachos delivered? I never really thought about the vast quantities of hot and cold running data that our lives generate as a means of production for the community to seize, and no doubt I'm not realizing some grim implications in my excitement but damn, the panopticon is already built, so I'd rather have in hands accountable to us, and operated with a greater vision than selling me sneakers at any minute of the day.
posted by EatTheWeek at 9:56 AM on January 9, 2021 [18 favorites]
I laughed, but on the other hand? A federal jobs guarantee for a vast army of admins and mods, fact checking and screening the vast digital cesspit for lies and abuse kind of ticks a lot of boxes for me. A Works-From-Home Progress program for the vast numbers of us who clearly have way too much time on our hands. The FBI deputizes Snopes or something, and then hires by the thousands. We would probably need to live in a fundamentally different sort of culture for this to really work and not go horribly but geez, if we already have this vast digital surveillance apparatus that tracks our every move and tries to shape our desires non stop, we might as well get some use out of it as a nation and a people.
For instance: Postmates always seems to know when I'm feeling sad or stressed enough to give a coupon code some extra consideration. Certainly I use my phone differently in such times, it can't be hard to spot. What if I got a text from one of the thousands of dedicated counselors at the Federal Bureau of Men Really Dealing With Their Shit Finally instead of the option to have several pounds of nachos delivered? I never really thought about the vast quantities of hot and cold running data that our lives generate as a means of production for the community to seize, and no doubt I'm not realizing some grim implications in my excitement but damn, the panopticon is already built, so I'd rather have in hands accountable to us, and operated with a greater vision than selling me sneakers at any minute of the day.
posted by EatTheWeek at 9:56 AM on January 9, 2021 [18 favorites]
I guess if you're a high-level Republican it's party over country, your own family, your own life and probably God.
In Pence's own words, he's a Christian, a Republican and an American, in that order; he's clearly not honest about the order of the first two.
1/6 will be a bigger deal for the United States, downstream, than 9/11 ever has been because we did this to ourselves, literally. This is us, there is no them. (And when the 'them' in the cultural imagination is actually part of 'us', the kind of war that starts is paradoxically called 'civil'. I am not confident about the course of this republic over the next few years, at all.)
posted by LooseFilter at 10:00 AM on January 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
In Pence's own words, he's a Christian, a Republican and an American, in that order; he's clearly not honest about the order of the first two.
1/6 will be a bigger deal for the United States, downstream, than 9/11 ever has been because we did this to ourselves, literally. This is us, there is no them. (And when the 'them' in the cultural imagination is actually part of 'us', the kind of war that starts is paradoxically called 'civil'. I am not confident about the course of this republic over the next few years, at all.)
posted by LooseFilter at 10:00 AM on January 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
Maybe we could persuade Cortex to put up a perma-post re: Section 230, and then anytime the topic comes up again a mod could just comment with a direct link, sort of like that old prison routine about numbering the jokes.
posted by PhineasGage at 10:00 AM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by PhineasGage at 10:00 AM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
Remember the phone call just a half-Scaramucci ago that was clearly an impeachable offense?
It seemed obvious that it wasn't a phone call in a vacuum. Even besides Zelinsky. There were more. And even more to come, I'm sure.
posted by Dashy at 10:01 AM on January 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
It seemed obvious that it wasn't a phone call in a vacuum. Even besides Zelinsky. There were more. And even more to come, I'm sure.
posted by Dashy at 10:01 AM on January 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
Rule 51 of the internet: everything was once a Simpson's joke.
posted by mazola at 10:03 AM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by mazola at 10:03 AM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
There were also approximately 40 "style of the time" comments re. Elizabeth and her towel onion but that was at least 15 years ago, on Thursday.
posted by phunniemee at 10:05 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 10:05 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
What if I got a text from one of the thousands of dedicated counselors at the Federal Bureau of Men Really Dealing With Their Shit Finally instead of the option to have several pounds of nachos delivered?
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
(just in case)
posted by LooseFilter at 10:06 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
(just in case)
posted by LooseFilter at 10:06 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
McKayliegh's statement the other day began, "I speak on behalf of the White House," and did not mention the President at any time and I am left genuinely concerned that Alexander Haig might not even be in charge of the White House right now.
I haven't mentioned this hypothesis but what if on Jan 6, while Pence, McConnell, and Pelosi were waiting for the building to be secured from the terrorists Donald Trump sent to drag them out and hang, they get on a conference call with "a majority of [either] the principal officers of the executive departments" and Amendment 25 clause 4'd him right then and there. Pelosi's call to the Pentagon could have been to confirm that Pence had the football.
There's zero proof confirming this, but there's nothing happening that has disproven the hypothesis either.
Maybe I'm just trying to be hopeful, at a horrible, horrible juncture.
posted by mikelieman at 10:11 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
I haven't mentioned this hypothesis but what if on Jan 6, while Pence, McConnell, and Pelosi were waiting for the building to be secured from the terrorists Donald Trump sent to drag them out and hang, they get on a conference call with "a majority of [either] the principal officers of the executive departments" and Amendment 25 clause 4'd him right then and there. Pelosi's call to the Pentagon could have been to confirm that Pence had the football.
There's zero proof confirming this, but there's nothing happening that has disproven the hypothesis either.
Maybe I'm just trying to be hopeful, at a horrible, horrible juncture.
posted by mikelieman at 10:11 AM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
the panopticon is already built, so I'd rather have in hands accountable to us
posted by EatTheWeak
I won't be seconding this, I'm afraid.
posted by Rumple at 10:11 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by EatTheWeak
I won't be seconding this, I'm afraid.
posted by Rumple at 10:11 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
60 Minutes has learned that last month President Trump called a GA Secretary of State investigator and told them they would be a hero if they found evidence of vote fraud.
posted by bluesky43 at 10:12 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by bluesky43 at 10:12 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
Mod note: Hey everybody! Hi! Please apply the brakes firmly and promptly in here because this thread has been a hard-to-sift mess all morning and it's taking two mods just to catch up with it. If there's an interesting discussion to be had about twitter and large scale corporate media and Section 230 that sounds like the job for a well-sourced post specifically about it, so either someone get on that or don't, but let's drop it in here because this feels like a lot of pent-up energy coming out on whatever topic is available and we need to not do that non-stop for the next two weeks.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:13 AM on January 9, 2021 [69 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:13 AM on January 9, 2021 [69 favorites]
Members of Several Well-Known Hate Groups Identified at Capitol Riot
A ProPublica-FRONTLINE review of the insurrection found several noted hardcore nativists and white nationalists who also participated in the 2017 white power rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.
posted by bluesky43 at 10:13 AM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
A ProPublica-FRONTLINE review of the insurrection found several noted hardcore nativists and white nationalists who also participated in the 2017 white power rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.
posted by bluesky43 at 10:13 AM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
the panopticon is already built, so I'd rather have in hands accountable to us
posted by EatTheWeak
Yeah, I've been meaning to check with the mods about changing the embarrassing screen name I chose in my 20s, actually - thanks for the reminder
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:14 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by EatTheWeak
Yeah, I've been meaning to check with the mods about changing the embarrassing screen name I chose in my 20s, actually - thanks for the reminder
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:14 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
I created a Free Speech Censorship thread for "I have concerns about tech" discussions that are not about the actual coup attempt and ongoing Trumpist takeover attempts.
FREE SPEECH OVER HERE --->
GET YOUR FREE SPEECH OVER HERE --->
posted by benzenedream at 10:18 AM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
FREE SPEECH OVER HERE --->
GET YOUR FREE SPEECH OVER HERE --->
posted by benzenedream at 10:18 AM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
Yeah, I've been meaning to check with the mods about changing the embarrassing screen name I chose in my 20s, actually - thanks for the reminder
My handle may be puerile, but I'm mainly just grateful that as far as I know the Brothers Chaps haven't been milkshake ducked.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:20 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
My handle may be puerile, but I'm mainly just grateful that as far as I know the Brothers Chaps haven't been milkshake ducked.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:20 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
One thing that struck me and I haven't seen mentioned, speaking of the emotional power of the material presence of the Capitol itself, is in the iconic picture of the Son-of-Brooklyn-Judge-Fur-Man on the bench, the white marble bust to his right is of ... Richard Nixon. I was a little surprised that he still maintains a bust in the Capitol building.
posted by Rumple at 10:26 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Rumple at 10:26 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Forbes Magazine, who have had a history with Trump exaggerating his wealth and power, are putting all potential future employers of Trump's surrogates and spokespeople on MF'ing notice.
A Truth Reckoning: Why We’re Holding Those Who Lied For Trump Accountable
Let it be known to the business world: Hire any of Trump’s fellow fabulists above, and Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie.
posted by PenDevil at 10:27 AM on January 9, 2021 [72 favorites]
A Truth Reckoning: Why We’re Holding Those Who Lied For Trump Accountable
Let it be known to the business world: Hire any of Trump’s fellow fabulists above, and Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie.
posted by PenDevil at 10:27 AM on January 9, 2021 [72 favorites]
Let it be known to the business world: Hire any of Trump’s fellow fabulists above, and Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie.
Let's be real though, Forbes should be doing this anyway. With all corporations. This is capitalism after all. Acting like Trump is some aberration and not where the whole fucking system is headed is naivety on a grand scale.
Press secretaries like Joe Lockhart, Ari Fleischer and Jay Carney, who left the White House with their reputations in various stages of intact, made millions taking their skills — and credibility — to corporate America. Trump’s liars don’t merit that same golden parachute.
Uhm, none of those people deserved the same golden parachute either what the fuck. Especially Ari fucking Fleischer.
posted by deadaluspark at 10:29 AM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
Let's be real though, Forbes should be doing this anyway. With all corporations. This is capitalism after all. Acting like Trump is some aberration and not where the whole fucking system is headed is naivety on a grand scale.
Press secretaries like Joe Lockhart, Ari Fleischer and Jay Carney, who left the White House with their reputations in various stages of intact, made millions taking their skills — and credibility — to corporate America. Trump’s liars don’t merit that same golden parachute.
Uhm, none of those people deserved the same golden parachute either what the fuck. Especially Ari fucking Fleischer.
posted by deadaluspark at 10:29 AM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
According to Fox News the “Patriots” shirts that read “Die Pence. Die” were actually German and correctly translated said “The Pence. The” no one who German could be an evil man.
Based on the replies, I think we have to stop with subtle Simpsons references. That episode is 27 years old and that fact just freaks me out.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 10:30 AM on January 9, 2021 [41 favorites]
Based on the replies, I think we have to stop with subtle Simpsons references. That episode is 27 years old and that fact just freaks me out.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 10:30 AM on January 9, 2021 [41 favorites]
From the Washington Posts reporting on two arrests:
posted by mumimor at 10:32 AM on January 9, 2021 [19 favorites]
Chansley, who also goes by Jake Angeli and is associated with QAnon, was charged Friday with entering restricted grounds and disrupting Capitol business in Washington. A Capitol Police arrest affidavit said an agent confirmed Chansley’s identification by media reports, citing his attire, tattoos on his arms and left side of his torso, and photographs Chansley posted on a Facebook page. The defendant was also identified by law enforcement through public databases, including his Arizona driver’s license photo, said Capitol Police Special Agent James Soltes.(My bold) Looks pretty damning to me. I guess Trump could defend himself by claiming he can't be accountable for how any clown interprets his speeches, but is that true when you are the president? And there are thousands of clowns who interpret your speech that way. Anyway, Trump's council is a party old drunk, so it probably doesn't matter.
Chansley called the FBI on Thursday to speak to law enforcement, Soltes wrote, and confirmed he was the man wearing the headdress on the dais. “CHANSLEY stated that he came as a part of a group effort, with other ‘patriots’ from Arizona, at the request of the President that all ‘patriots’ come to D.C. on January 6, 2021,” Soltes wrote.
posted by mumimor at 10:32 AM on January 9, 2021 [19 favorites]
There's one thing I saw yesterday that I my thoughts keep coming back to, like I'm staring at some trompe l'oeil painting or a physics toy where a ball rolls uphill.
Mike Solan, President of the Seattle Police Officers Guild and a profoundly disingenuous shitbag, tweeted to boost a claim that BLM activists were involved in the Capitol attack. Specifically, he retweeted a claim from Andy Ngô, a not-quite-journalist and profoundly disingenuous shitbag, that a known "extreme BLM activist" was in the thick of the action: John Sullivan, aka Activist John, was filming right next to Ashli Babbitt when she was shot (and you may have seen his footage; there appear to be two videos of that event floating around, and one of them is his).
If you're looking for confirmation that Antifa was there, playing some no-doubt-nefarious role in the violence, here's the proof! Here's a previous video of John Sullivan at a BLM protest calling for a left-wing revolution. Here's a photo of him arrested at the Capitol. Open and shut case.
Except every player in this story is pretending to be something they're not. John Sullivan's involvement with the BLM protest communities requires paragraphs to lay out, but the short version is he's a suspected infiltrator/provocateur/grifter who was, months ago, publicly declared a persona non grata by trusted members of the protest communities in Utah, Portland, and Seattle. Andy is not the straight-shooting journalist he pretends to be, but this has not stopped him from booking gigs in venues such as Joe Rogan's show and the US House of Representatives. Mike is not a public servant trying to bring the truth to light. It's all a smokescreen, and John and Andy and Mike all know it. But they also know it works: Their intended audience will now pick up and spread this proof that antifascists were behind the attack, despite there being absolutely zero actual antifascists in the entire story.
It just takes too much effort, too much context, to dissect and expose the lies; a lie travels half way around the world while the truth is still putting on its pants, and all that. WaPo (cw: article contains video of the shooting, non-autoplaying) even described John Sullivan initially as "a liberal activist who shoots video at a range of protests" before later updating it to the slightly better "a controversial self-described liberal activist who shoots video at a range of protests". For people who want to believe the story they're peddling, it looks like proof, but it's... it's all just reality-laundering. And it builds on, reinforces, and stiches together other similar lies and... god damn it's all so fucking exhausting. I don't know what to do with it, other than some basic steps like the City of Seattle pushing Solan out.
posted by kprincehouse at 10:39 AM on January 9, 2021 [105 favorites]
Mike Solan, President of the Seattle Police Officers Guild and a profoundly disingenuous shitbag, tweeted to boost a claim that BLM activists were involved in the Capitol attack. Specifically, he retweeted a claim from Andy Ngô, a not-quite-journalist and profoundly disingenuous shitbag, that a known "extreme BLM activist" was in the thick of the action: John Sullivan, aka Activist John, was filming right next to Ashli Babbitt when she was shot (and you may have seen his footage; there appear to be two videos of that event floating around, and one of them is his).
If you're looking for confirmation that Antifa was there, playing some no-doubt-nefarious role in the violence, here's the proof! Here's a previous video of John Sullivan at a BLM protest calling for a left-wing revolution. Here's a photo of him arrested at the Capitol. Open and shut case.
Except every player in this story is pretending to be something they're not. John Sullivan's involvement with the BLM protest communities requires paragraphs to lay out, but the short version is he's a suspected infiltrator/provocateur/grifter who was, months ago, publicly declared a persona non grata by trusted members of the protest communities in Utah, Portland, and Seattle. Andy is not the straight-shooting journalist he pretends to be, but this has not stopped him from booking gigs in venues such as Joe Rogan's show and the US House of Representatives. Mike is not a public servant trying to bring the truth to light. It's all a smokescreen, and John and Andy and Mike all know it. But they also know it works: Their intended audience will now pick up and spread this proof that antifascists were behind the attack, despite there being absolutely zero actual antifascists in the entire story.
It just takes too much effort, too much context, to dissect and expose the lies; a lie travels half way around the world while the truth is still putting on its pants, and all that. WaPo (cw: article contains video of the shooting, non-autoplaying) even described John Sullivan initially as "a liberal activist who shoots video at a range of protests" before later updating it to the slightly better "a controversial self-described liberal activist who shoots video at a range of protests". For people who want to believe the story they're peddling, it looks like proof, but it's... it's all just reality-laundering. And it builds on, reinforces, and stiches together other similar lies and... god damn it's all so fucking exhausting. I don't know what to do with it, other than some basic steps like the City of Seattle pushing Solan out.
posted by kprincehouse at 10:39 AM on January 9, 2021 [105 favorites]
To the credit of the acting [Seattle] police chief Adrian Diaz, he has promised that those officers will be fired, if it is determined they participated in the riot. Getting rid of dirty cops is something that the disgraced former chief Carmen Best deliberately failed at.
Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of weasel room in what Diaz said. Also even if he fires them, they'll just go get hired at some other department. Like I'm definitely glad if they get fired but it's gonna take criminal charges to make any real difference. Same as all the other horrific stuff cops do.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:40 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of weasel room in what Diaz said. Also even if he fires them, they'll just go get hired at some other department. Like I'm definitely glad if they get fired but it's gonna take criminal charges to make any real difference. Same as all the other horrific stuff cops do.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:40 AM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Matter-of-fact and chilling: "Trump’s Legacy: Voters Who Reject Democracy and Any Politics but Their Own." This doesn't end January 20th. Whether or not Winston Churchill really said it, "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
posted by PhineasGage at 10:45 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by PhineasGage at 10:45 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
This comment by nakedmolerats is very true and I thought it was worth repeating.
I gently suggest that if you are white or you see white people minimizing that some/most of the rioters were just jokers milling around with no real plan, to consider that part of white supremacy is the privilege to assume the best of white intentions. Just as a lot of white people who end up BBQ Becky swear that they're not racist, they might even be liberals, they had a really good reason to call the cops on THAT Black person; we are also culturally encouraged to believe that "most white people are mostly good" and that "my cousin/friend/coworker says racist stuff but they'd never do this." If you are white there is a good chance you are unconsciously minimizing, and that's not a personal accusation, but it is the water we swim in.
posted by theora55 at 10:47 AM on January 9, 2021 [23 favorites]
I gently suggest that if you are white or you see white people minimizing that some/most of the rioters were just jokers milling around with no real plan, to consider that part of white supremacy is the privilege to assume the best of white intentions. Just as a lot of white people who end up BBQ Becky swear that they're not racist, they might even be liberals, they had a really good reason to call the cops on THAT Black person; we are also culturally encouraged to believe that "most white people are mostly good" and that "my cousin/friend/coworker says racist stuff but they'd never do this." If you are white there is a good chance you are unconsciously minimizing, and that's not a personal accusation, but it is the water we swim in.
posted by theora55 at 10:47 AM on January 9, 2021 [23 favorites]
Of course, the "people" who lack the framework are almost certainly mostly white people. Not exclusively, but mostly.
Frowner, if you're mostly around BIPOC people who are fairly civically engaged and/or well-educated — as most Mefites are, I suspect — you wouldn't really have a lot of contact with non-white people who "lack the framework". But I see it a fair bit in both American and Canadian relatives raised outside of North America, who despite being Black like me, have a really un-nuanced understanding of racism. You say white supremacy and they think KKK or police brutality — the idea of structural racism creating disadvantages that aren't about a very undistilled kind of hatred isn't something that's fully fleshed out for them. They talk about racism all the time, but also can't seem to connect their lived experiences that aren't about first-degree racism to institutionalized racism.
Some of this probably comes from the homogeneity of their worlds; everyone they're close to is from their diaspora, and almost everyone they know, regardless of race, is socioeconomically similar. Unlike university-educated middle-class BIPOC people, they're not living in a world where institutional racism is a glass wall; for them, it's an opaque barrier.
They are also extremely ahistorical when it comes to any societal forces that aren't specifically about anti-Black racism. Capitalism? Political ideology? No, just racism. What's intersectionality? Voting? Why bother when voting never changes anything? Do I blame them for being this way? Not really. But I am sick of being treated like some naive bougie ivory tower nincompoop because I'm able to articulate that this is structural rather than just harping about Karens and bad cops.
I can't speak directly to the dynamics of other diasporic groups because anti-black racism is its own sort of thing, but I hear similar issues from other POC friends. Their immigrant relatives can acknowledge their own experiences of discrimination to an extent, but whether they have the locally-relevant cultural and political literacy to connect this to something more nuanced and multifacted than just racism is another story altogether.
You guys either ignore the existence of people like this or are quick to tell people like me that we're patronizing or must be lying (or worse, are fake BIPOC). I get it, what I wrote would make many, if not most white liberals extraordinarily uncomfortable. But it's the careful, cautious left-leaning crowd that really needs stand up and take note of BIPOC folks for whom the framework doesn't resonate. There's a lot more of them out there than you think, and without being able to engage them in an intersectional rethink of democratic society, the left is done for.
posted by blerghamot at 10:52 AM on January 9, 2021 [82 favorites]
Frowner, if you're mostly around BIPOC people who are fairly civically engaged and/or well-educated — as most Mefites are, I suspect — you wouldn't really have a lot of contact with non-white people who "lack the framework". But I see it a fair bit in both American and Canadian relatives raised outside of North America, who despite being Black like me, have a really un-nuanced understanding of racism. You say white supremacy and they think KKK or police brutality — the idea of structural racism creating disadvantages that aren't about a very undistilled kind of hatred isn't something that's fully fleshed out for them. They talk about racism all the time, but also can't seem to connect their lived experiences that aren't about first-degree racism to institutionalized racism.
Some of this probably comes from the homogeneity of their worlds; everyone they're close to is from their diaspora, and almost everyone they know, regardless of race, is socioeconomically similar. Unlike university-educated middle-class BIPOC people, they're not living in a world where institutional racism is a glass wall; for them, it's an opaque barrier.
They are also extremely ahistorical when it comes to any societal forces that aren't specifically about anti-Black racism. Capitalism? Political ideology? No, just racism. What's intersectionality? Voting? Why bother when voting never changes anything? Do I blame them for being this way? Not really. But I am sick of being treated like some naive bougie ivory tower nincompoop because I'm able to articulate that this is structural rather than just harping about Karens and bad cops.
I can't speak directly to the dynamics of other diasporic groups because anti-black racism is its own sort of thing, but I hear similar issues from other POC friends. Their immigrant relatives can acknowledge their own experiences of discrimination to an extent, but whether they have the locally-relevant cultural and political literacy to connect this to something more nuanced and multifacted than just racism is another story altogether.
You guys either ignore the existence of people like this or are quick to tell people like me that we're patronizing or must be lying (or worse, are fake BIPOC). I get it, what I wrote would make many, if not most white liberals extraordinarily uncomfortable. But it's the careful, cautious left-leaning crowd that really needs stand up and take note of BIPOC folks for whom the framework doesn't resonate. There's a lot more of them out there than you think, and without being able to engage them in an intersectional rethink of democratic society, the left is done for.
posted by blerghamot at 10:52 AM on January 9, 2021 [82 favorites]
The Seth Abramson thread that bluesky43 linked further up is still ongoing four hours later (tweet #150 at present), and definitely should be read.
Communications professor and attorney breaking down what Trump's speech included, the interpretation of it, and why it is a repeating incitement to violence.
posted by MattWPBS at 10:57 AM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
Communications professor and attorney breaking down what Trump's speech included, the interpretation of it, and why it is a repeating incitement to violence.
posted by MattWPBS at 10:57 AM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
Mod note: Please, no more Simpsons references. They will be removed promptly. Thanks!
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 11:06 AM on January 9, 2021 [51 favorites]
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 11:06 AM on January 9, 2021 [51 favorites]
Christ, Churchill was an asshole. The point to Democracy is that the average voter averages out and we achieve group wisdom. This is why Republicans are into voter suppression: they don't want to answer to the people.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:07 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:07 AM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
blerghamot, great comment, well stated and very welcome. In my reply I hope you understand that I was referring to the 'mostly white' who in the last 12 months, or perhaps their entire life, have somehow wrapped their brain in a blind-spot to the sea of racism they swim and thrive in.
posted by adept256 at 11:08 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 11:08 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
> I have to imagine he’s feeling increasingly isolated right about now.
"Increasingly isolated" AND "at the most isolated"!
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
"Increasingly isolated" AND "at the most isolated"!
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:09 AM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Can one have a long dark night of the soul if one has no soul?
posted by at by at 11:12 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by at by at 11:12 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
I gently suggest that if you are white or you see white people minimizing that some/most of the rioters were just jokers milling around with no real plan, to consider that part of white supremacy is the privilege to assume the best of white intentions.
Please also remember this when we hear, "Sure, I forced my way into the Capitol wearing body armor and carrying weapons, and yeah, our side murdered a cop, but those totally weren't MY zip-ties and I was only holding onto them for safe keeping. I didn't want anyone to do anything extreme."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:13 AM on January 9, 2021 [21 favorites]
Please also remember this when we hear, "Sure, I forced my way into the Capitol wearing body armor and carrying weapons, and yeah, our side murdered a cop, but those totally weren't MY zip-ties and I was only holding onto them for safe keeping. I didn't want anyone to do anything extreme."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:13 AM on January 9, 2021 [21 favorites]
Christ, Churchill was an asshole. The point to Democracy is
he also said democracy is the worst system ... except for all the others.
posted by philip-random at 11:20 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
he also said democracy is the worst system ... except for all the others.
posted by philip-random at 11:20 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Christ, Churchill was an asshole.
Well it's certainly possible that is true, but not on the basis of the "five minute" quote above, which there is no evidence he ever said.
posted by biffa at 11:25 AM on January 9, 2021
Well it's certainly possible that is true, but not on the basis of the "five minute" quote above, which there is no evidence he ever said.
posted by biffa at 11:25 AM on January 9, 2021
BTW, something I've wanted to ask since Wednesday: is it significant that the flags behind Trump has those gold fringes or what they are called. And/or is it normal during presidential rallies?
posted by mumimor at 11:26 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 11:26 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
The Seth Abramson thread that bluesky43 linked further up is still ongoing four hours later (tweet #150 at present), and definitely should be read.
The thing to watch for with Abramson though, is that while most of his analysis is solid, he asserts things as simple fact too easily and it's often his most salacious bits of analysis - starting around #24 there's a run on a thing Trump said about how the police, military, etc should basically let the mob do what they want to do (march on the Capitol, but said with a thin veneer of deniability) which is already horrifying but then Abramson asserts that "There's simply *no other logical explanation* for what Trump says here other than that he wants soldiers and cops to "come up [to the Capitol] with us"—and imminently." which is absolutely a possibility and a terrifying one but it's irresponsibly inflaming fears past reason imo to lay on the "no other logical explanation" stuff and take supposition as fact and base further supposition on it. And there are a lot of little things like that sprinkled throughout this and all of his analysis - suppositions built on each other four or five deep because he takes his own guesses as fact.
He does get a lot right and it's not that the things he gets wrong are out of the realm of possibility, but he tries to get you to switch off critical thinking at points because he's a little too into stringing together a nice tidy story out of a mess with many unknowns and it's important to watch out.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:27 AM on January 9, 2021 [33 favorites]
The thing to watch for with Abramson though, is that while most of his analysis is solid, he asserts things as simple fact too easily and it's often his most salacious bits of analysis - starting around #24 there's a run on a thing Trump said about how the police, military, etc should basically let the mob do what they want to do (march on the Capitol, but said with a thin veneer of deniability) which is already horrifying but then Abramson asserts that "There's simply *no other logical explanation* for what Trump says here other than that he wants soldiers and cops to "come up [to the Capitol] with us"—and imminently." which is absolutely a possibility and a terrifying one but it's irresponsibly inflaming fears past reason imo to lay on the "no other logical explanation" stuff and take supposition as fact and base further supposition on it. And there are a lot of little things like that sprinkled throughout this and all of his analysis - suppositions built on each other four or five deep because he takes his own guesses as fact.
He does get a lot right and it's not that the things he gets wrong are out of the realm of possibility, but he tries to get you to switch off critical thinking at points because he's a little too into stringing together a nice tidy story out of a mess with many unknowns and it's important to watch out.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:27 AM on January 9, 2021 [33 favorites]
WaPo is reporting that Trump made a second personal call to Georgia.
This call wasn't to the Georgia Secretary of State, a political electee. It's much worse. This was directly to the chief elections investigator, in an attempt to subvert the election. This is direct interference with an investigation.
If that isn't obstruction of justice, nothing is. But of course we already knew Republicans didn't care when they gave him a pass for trying to twist Comey's arm to help Michael Flynn.
posted by JackFlash at 11:28 AM on January 9, 2021 [58 favorites]
This call wasn't to the Georgia Secretary of State, a political electee. It's much worse. This was directly to the chief elections investigator, in an attempt to subvert the election. This is direct interference with an investigation.
If that isn't obstruction of justice, nothing is. But of course we already knew Republicans didn't care when they gave him a pass for trying to twist Comey's arm to help Michael Flynn.
posted by JackFlash at 11:28 AM on January 9, 2021 [58 favorites]
In commenting about the well-equipped guys with the flex-i-cuffs, Malcolm Nance said something about how the best way to hide an organized operation was within another larger, chaotic event. And I can't help but think about Erik Prince's mercenaries for hire, especially since he owes Trump now thanks to the pardons issued to the 4 Blackwater goons. Prince's loyalty has been understood ever since his mysterious meetings in the Seychelles before the 2016 elections. His involvement comports with sister Betsy DeVos' resignation. If he's got Academi (the re-branded Blackwater) guys lined up for something nefarious, especially given what they might have learned during the attack on the Capitol, that could be real trouble.
posted by carmicha at 11:28 AM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
posted by carmicha at 11:28 AM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
is it significant that the flags behind Trump has those gold fringes
Yes, but only in the same way the flag is shaped like a Q. Only for delusional people.
posted by adept256 at 11:30 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Yes, but only in the same way the flag is shaped like a Q. Only for delusional people.
posted by adept256 at 11:30 AM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
During all the discussions around BLM and defund the police, I learned that it is actually not possible for many mayors in large cities to reign cops in, that various laws and flat out intimidation protect cops from any meaningful reform.
I wonder if any of those mayors could meet with Biden and his team about fixing this situation? Especially now that it's clear these cops aren't just abusing the locals but involved with domestic terrorism?
posted by emjaybee at 11:32 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
I wonder if any of those mayors could meet with Biden and his team about fixing this situation? Especially now that it's clear these cops aren't just abusing the locals but involved with domestic terrorism?
posted by emjaybee at 11:32 AM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
I hope they change their mind, or at least use the hard shit, like rubber bullets and tear gas.
I know that the joke about travel restrictions forcing the US to run this year's coup at home has been making the rounds, but seeing undoubtedly heartfelt comment like that does rather resonate with the US's long history of failed attempts to impose democracy by force elsewhere. It would be sad to watch it fail to impose it that way internally as well.
The legitimacy of any government rests solely on the consent of the governed. Faux News and an assortment of Republican dingleberries have been doing their damnedest to undermine that consent since Election Night and succeeding in that endeavour to a dangerous extent, but luckily it remains the case that a pretty substantial majority of Americans are not total rubes and do understand that the election result is legitimate.
The optics of consent matter. So If Biden's inauguration event is run by people who know their jobs, what we will see is a huge approving crowd, a crowd way too big for Stop The Steal marks to achieve critical mass within it, and the rubber bullets and tear gas won't ever be needed.
John Sullivan's involvement with the BLM protest communities requires paragraphs to lay out, but the short version is he's a suspected infiltrator/provocateur/grifter who was, months ago, publicly declared a persona non grata by trusted members of the protest communities in Utah, Portland, and Seattle.
I've been looking over the guy's YouTube channel (not going to link, but his YouTube handle is Jayden X) and getting a really really strong Nightcrawler vibe.
posted by flabdablet at 11:32 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
I know that the joke about travel restrictions forcing the US to run this year's coup at home has been making the rounds, but seeing undoubtedly heartfelt comment like that does rather resonate with the US's long history of failed attempts to impose democracy by force elsewhere. It would be sad to watch it fail to impose it that way internally as well.
The legitimacy of any government rests solely on the consent of the governed. Faux News and an assortment of Republican dingleberries have been doing their damnedest to undermine that consent since Election Night and succeeding in that endeavour to a dangerous extent, but luckily it remains the case that a pretty substantial majority of Americans are not total rubes and do understand that the election result is legitimate.
The optics of consent matter. So If Biden's inauguration event is run by people who know their jobs, what we will see is a huge approving crowd, a crowd way too big for Stop The Steal marks to achieve critical mass within it, and the rubber bullets and tear gas won't ever be needed.
John Sullivan's involvement with the BLM protest communities requires paragraphs to lay out, but the short version is he's a suspected infiltrator/provocateur/grifter who was, months ago, publicly declared a persona non grata by trusted members of the protest communities in Utah, Portland, and Seattle.
I've been looking over the guy's YouTube channel (not going to link, but his YouTube handle is Jayden X) and getting a really really strong Nightcrawler vibe.
posted by flabdablet at 11:32 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
The Seth Abramson thread that bluesky43 linked further up is still ongoing four hours later (tweet #150 at present), and definitely should be read.
The thing to watch for with Abramson though, is that while most of his analysis is solid, he asserts things as simple fact too easily and it's often his most salacious bits of analysis -
I agree but the breakdown of how the speech is a classic use of fascist, authoritarian moves to rile up the crowd and direct their anger is a super interesting part of Abramson's analysis.
posted by bluesky43 at 11:33 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
The thing to watch for with Abramson though, is that while most of his analysis is solid, he asserts things as simple fact too easily and it's often his most salacious bits of analysis -
I agree but the breakdown of how the speech is a classic use of fascist, authoritarian moves to rile up the crowd and direct their anger is a super interesting part of Abramson's analysis.
posted by bluesky43 at 11:33 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
Pence is such an enigma to me. It's hard to understand how someone who appears so obtuse can rise to such a prestigious position.
Please don't get me wrong -- I've met plenty of accomplished folks in business and media to know that accomplished people aren't necessarily intelligent. It's not that I think they're stupid. Not at all. They're just not as obviously on fire as some of the characters I've encountered in computer science or law, who seem to be running on a kind of crazy brain ambrosia.
So I get that intelligence is not the end-all be-all of accomplishment. I can see that with my own eyes. But it takes something, right? Some energy or drive, some communicative or performative skill, some vision, sheer pig-headed persistence perhaps. Myself, I've had to learn to see those things in people (and I blame engineer's disease for blinding me to all these wonderful qualities when I was younger & dumber). But with Pence I don't see that either.
Until this Friday a coworker (quite a bit older and coming from a background that's much more conservative and more religious [in a European context] than mine) told me how impressed he was by the way Pence handled things after the Capitol invasion. You could tell he almost admired him. FWIW, he also thought Trump was "dangerous, nuts", so it's not like he's generally lost his marbles.
I don't know what he saw. Perhaps he'd had a few drinks or perhaps it was the momentousness of the occasion. But it did get me thinking whether he saw something in Pence that I don't. Perhaps where I see stolid obtuseness and slavering subservience, my coworker sees a sense of duty, aversion to self-promotion, something like that. I don't know. So many worlds.
posted by dmh at 11:35 AM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
Please don't get me wrong -- I've met plenty of accomplished folks in business and media to know that accomplished people aren't necessarily intelligent. It's not that I think they're stupid. Not at all. They're just not as obviously on fire as some of the characters I've encountered in computer science or law, who seem to be running on a kind of crazy brain ambrosia.
So I get that intelligence is not the end-all be-all of accomplishment. I can see that with my own eyes. But it takes something, right? Some energy or drive, some communicative or performative skill, some vision, sheer pig-headed persistence perhaps. Myself, I've had to learn to see those things in people (and I blame engineer's disease for blinding me to all these wonderful qualities when I was younger & dumber). But with Pence I don't see that either.
Until this Friday a coworker (quite a bit older and coming from a background that's much more conservative and more religious [in a European context] than mine) told me how impressed he was by the way Pence handled things after the Capitol invasion. You could tell he almost admired him. FWIW, he also thought Trump was "dangerous, nuts", so it's not like he's generally lost his marbles.
I don't know what he saw. Perhaps he'd had a few drinks or perhaps it was the momentousness of the occasion. But it did get me thinking whether he saw something in Pence that I don't. Perhaps where I see stolid obtuseness and slavering subservience, my coworker sees a sense of duty, aversion to self-promotion, something like that. I don't know. So many worlds.
posted by dmh at 11:35 AM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
Churchill, a colonialist asshole to be sure, also said that "democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried." So he had a complicated if ultimately supportive relationship with democracy, at least within England. (I was going to say Great Britain, but I'm not sure how he felt about Irish democracy.)
More relevant to the discussion at hand, the quote that Churchill probably didn't say: "You can depend on Americans to do the right thing when they have exhausted every other possibility."
posted by clawsoon at 11:36 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
More relevant to the discussion at hand, the quote that Churchill probably didn't say: "You can depend on Americans to do the right thing when they have exhausted every other possibility."
posted by clawsoon at 11:36 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
BTW, something I've wanted to ask since Wednesday: is it significant that the flags behind Trump has those gold fringes or what they are called.
i think it means that they're under admiralty law, which means he's out to sea
or something
posted by pyramid termite at 11:37 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
i think it means that they're under admiralty law, which means he's out to sea
or something
posted by pyramid termite at 11:37 AM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
the US's long history of failed attempts to impose democracy by force elsewhere
Yeah, that's what they were doing.
posted by biffa at 11:38 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
Yeah, that's what they were doing.
posted by biffa at 11:38 AM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
how impressed he was by the way Pence handled things after the Capitol invasion.
Pence's remarks once Congress reconvened were appropriately solemn and fitting. If that was all I knew of Pence, I'd probably find him admirable too.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 11:40 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Pence's remarks once Congress reconvened were appropriately solemn and fitting. If that was all I knew of Pence, I'd probably find him admirable too.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 11:40 AM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Probably not related, but Pakistans power grid went down. Statements are that a plant went offline and the breakers in the system flipped.
posted by Lord_Pall at 11:43 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Lord_Pall at 11:43 AM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
I agree but the breakdown of how the speech is a classic use of fascist, authoritarian moves to rile up the crowd and direct their anger is a super interesting part of Abramson's analysis.
Oh absolutely! I think Abramson has a solid core to a lot of his analysis but he just gets so sloppy though because he always has to go the extra mile and tries to say that things that are possibly true are definitely true. And I get the impulse because a ton of us do that here (I'm guilty of it too!), it's a coping tactic to act like you've got some amount of control of a terrifying reality because you understand it. But divorcing the reading of tea leaves from the actual analysis would make things much better because it's so easy to get swept up as a reader and let the latter lend credence to the former.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:43 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
Oh absolutely! I think Abramson has a solid core to a lot of his analysis but he just gets so sloppy though because he always has to go the extra mile and tries to say that things that are possibly true are definitely true. And I get the impulse because a ton of us do that here (I'm guilty of it too!), it's a coping tactic to act like you've got some amount of control of a terrifying reality because you understand it. But divorcing the reading of tea leaves from the actual analysis would make things much better because it's so easy to get swept up as a reader and let the latter lend credence to the former.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:43 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
Metafilter: it's a coping tactic to act like you've got some amount of control of a terrifying reality because you understand it.
posted by PhineasGage at 11:45 AM on January 9, 2021 [23 favorites]
posted by PhineasGage at 11:45 AM on January 9, 2021 [23 favorites]
Pence looks like Race Bannon and old white dudes all loved Jonny Quest growing up
posted by emjaybee at 11:48 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 11:48 AM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
tries to say that things that are possibly true are definitely true.
My take was that it was impossible for him to do this intricate analysis without the accompanying horror, leading to hyperbole. But I see what you mean. Abramson's is a really brilliant analysis.
posted by bluesky43 at 11:48 AM on January 9, 2021
My take was that it was impossible for him to do this intricate analysis without the accompanying horror, leading to hyperbole. But I see what you mean. Abramson's is a really brilliant analysis.
posted by bluesky43 at 11:48 AM on January 9, 2021
There are copycat riots in Copenhagen and one other Danish town tonight -- they claim to be anti-corona-restrictions, but have clearly learnt from the US (and I guess the riots in Michigan were about stay-at-home orders, too). It's a small group, but they are violent, and do the military cos-play thing.
posted by mumimor at 11:51 AM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 11:51 AM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
Pence looks like Race Bannon and old white dudes all loved Jonny Quest growing up
this comment resembles me, but I got over the Race B admiration before I turned eleven. The Beatles were far cooler.
posted by philip-random at 11:52 AM on January 9, 2021
this comment resembles me, but I got over the Race B admiration before I turned eleven. The Beatles were far cooler.
posted by philip-random at 11:52 AM on January 9, 2021
Armed gathering at Kentucky Capitol even as the legislature passes Republican nonsense bills. When will these people see that they are not safe from the creature they helped to create?
posted by Countess Elena at 11:53 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 11:53 AM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
There seems to be little uncertainty about what went missing, or at least wahat is admitted to have gone missing
At least 3 computing devices have been reported as missing.
Senator Jeff Merkley, a Democrat from Oregon, posted a video to Twitter, showing his ransacked office and sharing that intruders “stole the laptop.
Representative James Clyburn, Democrat from South Carolina, said that an iPad went missing from his office.
And a spokesman for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said on Twitter Friday that “a laptop only used for presentations” was stolen from a conference room.
There were also pictures of at least one open and presumably unlocked screen.
Regardless of how much they want to downplay this, the laptop has to have at least access that could be leveraged, It’s highly unlikely that this laptop was sitting there with no files, or file access, or any other useful information to somebody looking for leverage or retribution.”
As carmicha implicated upthread this is definitely the methodology of possibly trained operatives using the clowns as cover.
posted by adamvasco at 11:53 AM on January 9, 2021 [21 favorites]
At least 3 computing devices have been reported as missing.
Senator Jeff Merkley, a Democrat from Oregon, posted a video to Twitter, showing his ransacked office and sharing that intruders “stole the laptop.
Representative James Clyburn, Democrat from South Carolina, said that an iPad went missing from his office.
And a spokesman for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said on Twitter Friday that “a laptop only used for presentations” was stolen from a conference room.
There were also pictures of at least one open and presumably unlocked screen.
Regardless of how much they want to downplay this, the laptop has to have at least access that could be leveraged, It’s highly unlikely that this laptop was sitting there with no files, or file access, or any other useful information to somebody looking for leverage or retribution.”
As carmicha implicated upthread this is definitely the methodology of possibly trained operatives using the clowns as cover.
posted by adamvasco at 11:53 AM on January 9, 2021 [21 favorites]
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
posted by clawsoon at 11:55 AM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 11:55 AM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
ಠ_ಠ
posted by cortex at 11:56 AM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by cortex at 11:56 AM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
"Stop with the useless memes already!" - cortex
posted by clawsoon at 11:59 AM on January 9, 2021 [23 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 11:59 AM on January 9, 2021 [23 favorites]
“Lost Lost Causes,” Blair McClendon, n+1 Magazine, 09 January 2021
posted by ob1quixote at 12:05 PM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 12:05 PM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
Has someone swept the capital for cyberattack vectors, eg rogue devices planted in the network, even in unassuming places like a USB port in an exhibit screen in the public area?
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 12:06 PM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 12:06 PM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Don’t quote me, boy, I ain’t said shit.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:08 PM on January 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:08 PM on January 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
re: sweeping the capital.
Yeah, I imagine that was one of the reasons for the recess.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:09 PM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
Yeah, I imagine that was one of the reasons for the recess.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:09 PM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
Wait, John Sullivan, exposed fake liberal activist, is the same guy posting on YouTube and Twitter as (definitely not liberal) Jayden X? I owe someone an apology.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 12:12 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by TWinbrook8 at 12:12 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
That Blair McClendon essay has a great closing line.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:18 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:18 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
"EFNet is a specific IRC network administered mostly in the US"
Uh, well, kinda, not really. There were plenty of servers linked from other nations, too, back in the day before EFnet split into two. I'd rattle off a few of the server names, but I'm old now.
posted by Jubal Kessler at 12:25 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Uh, well, kinda, not really. There were plenty of servers linked from other nations, too, back in the day before EFnet split into two. I'd rattle off a few of the server names, but I'm old now.
posted by Jubal Kessler at 12:25 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Here in Eugene, OR we just drove through downtown and there is a gathering of frothing trump cultists at the courthouse. We just passed about 15 people dressed all in black marching two by two to join the rest of the cultists.
Even if nothing comes of it, I'm sitting here right now outside the restaurant we'd come to pick up brunch from and just reflecting on the fact that living free from terror of possible immediate physical threat and simultaneous overthrow of democracy is something I'd apparently taken for granted back in the day.
posted by DingoMutt at 12:27 PM on January 9, 2021 [59 favorites]
Even if nothing comes of it, I'm sitting here right now outside the restaurant we'd come to pick up brunch from and just reflecting on the fact that living free from terror of possible immediate physical threat and simultaneous overthrow of democracy is something I'd apparently taken for granted back in the day.
posted by DingoMutt at 12:27 PM on January 9, 2021 [59 favorites]
Until this Friday a coworker (quite a bit older and coming from a background that's much more conservative and more religious [in a European context] than mine) told me how impressed he was by the way Pence handled things after the Capitol invasion. You could tell he almost admired him.
Pence was surrounded by a setting defiled by hatred, feces and rejection of all fundamental and small-d democratic principles. He was responding to elected representatives who were attempting to justify the feces-smearers' actions and hold up their aim as just. All he had to do was not urinate on the floor to seem like a goddamned statesman.
posted by delfin at 12:36 PM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
Pence was surrounded by a setting defiled by hatred, feces and rejection of all fundamental and small-d democratic principles. He was responding to elected representatives who were attempting to justify the feces-smearers' actions and hold up their aim as just. All he had to do was not urinate on the floor to seem like a goddamned statesman.
posted by delfin at 12:36 PM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
I skimmed the Twitter statement, and it was typical Americanese corporate gobbledygook to me
The thing about corporate gobbelygook is it's a language, it's just not English. They said, "We banned Trump on purpose, not by accident, and we feel like we can defend that if you're stupid enough to sue a company with a lot of expensive lawyers and unlimited money." You're not the intended receiver of the message.
posted by ctmf at 12:37 PM on January 9, 2021 [44 favorites]
The thing about corporate gobbelygook is it's a language, it's just not English. They said, "We banned Trump on purpose, not by accident, and we feel like we can defend that if you're stupid enough to sue a company with a lot of expensive lawyers and unlimited money." You're not the intended receiver of the message.
posted by ctmf at 12:37 PM on January 9, 2021 [44 favorites]
Reading the Seth Abramson thread and my main takeaway so far is: Abramson keeps using "masterful" to describe Trump's propagandizing where the more appropriate word would be "effective".
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:39 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:39 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
Maybe he means masterful in the plantation sense.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:40 PM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:40 PM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
Reading the Seth Abramson thread and my main takeaway so far is: Abramson keeps using "masterful" to describe Trump's propagandizing where the more appropriate word would be "effective".
Seth Abramson has just finished getting his ass handed to him up and down law twitter for his spewing bullshit. I think he's doing the typical angry white man thing of turning into the proverbial ironic goat fucker like many before him.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 12:41 PM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
Seth Abramson has just finished getting his ass handed to him up and down law twitter for his spewing bullshit. I think he's doing the typical angry white man thing of turning into the proverbial ironic goat fucker like many before him.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 12:41 PM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
I think if Seth ever stops talking, he will cease to exist.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 12:42 PM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 12:42 PM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Even if nothing comes of it, I'm sitting here right now outside the restaurant we'd come to pick up brunch from and just reflecting on the fact that living free from terror of possible immediate physical threat and simultaneous overthrow of democracy is something I'd apparently taken for granted back in the day.
That was the part that startled me on Wednesday.
I expected chaos. I expected violent outbreaks... later on, when Proud Boys could isolate people n-on-one. I expected a lackluster response in defending the ones in that equation. That's the America I recognize.
But a gathering of rich white millionaires, many of whom were notorious CHUDs? That should have been the safest square mile in the whole geographic region.
That is one of the messages; no one and no place will ever be immune again.
posted by delfin at 12:43 PM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
That was the part that startled me on Wednesday.
I expected chaos. I expected violent outbreaks... later on, when Proud Boys could isolate people n-on-one. I expected a lackluster response in defending the ones in that equation. That's the America I recognize.
But a gathering of rich white millionaires, many of whom were notorious CHUDs? That should have been the safest square mile in the whole geographic region.
That is one of the messages; no one and no place will ever be immune again.
posted by delfin at 12:43 PM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
But a gathering of rich white millionaires, many of whom were notorious CHUDs?
They were safe. They're telling their enemies they aren't even safe WITHIN that square mile, and telling insufficiently pure chuds like Pence they can be kicked out of the club; what have you done for me LATELY.
Thing is, insufficiently pure is a ratcheting and constantly changing standard and everyone, eventually, will be insufficiently pure. The best move in that game is not to play.
posted by ctmf at 12:50 PM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
They were safe. They're telling their enemies they aren't even safe WITHIN that square mile, and telling insufficiently pure chuds like Pence they can be kicked out of the club; what have you done for me LATELY.
Thing is, insufficiently pure is a ratcheting and constantly changing standard and everyone, eventually, will be insufficiently pure. The best move in that game is not to play.
posted by ctmf at 12:50 PM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
It just takes too much effort, too much context, to dissect and expose the lies; a lie travels half way around the world while the truth is still putting on its pants, and all that. WaPo (cw: article contains video of the shooting, non-autoplaying) even described John Sullivan initially as "a liberal activist who shoots video at a range of protests" before later updating it to the slightly better "a controversial self-described liberal activist who shoots video at a range of protests". For people who want to believe the story they're peddling, it looks like proof, but it's... it's all just reality-laundering. And it builds on, reinforces, and stiches together other similar lies and... god damn it's all so fucking exhausting. I don't know what to do with it, other than some basic steps like the City of Seattle pushing Solan out.
Not that it solves the problem, completely, but that’s what Google-bombing was designed for. So that every time someone googles “John Sullivan activist”, the very first link that comes up describes him clearly and unequivocally as a false-flag provocateur who uses his persona to undermine liberal activism.
posted by darkstar at 12:51 PM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
Not that it solves the problem, completely, but that’s what Google-bombing was designed for. So that every time someone googles “John Sullivan activist”, the very first link that comes up describes him clearly and unequivocally as a false-flag provocateur who uses his persona to undermine liberal activism.
posted by darkstar at 12:51 PM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
During all the discussions around BLM and defund the police, I learned that it is actually not possible for many mayors in large cities to reign cops in, that various laws and flat out intimidation protect cops from any meaningful reform.
I wonder if any of those mayors could meet with Biden and his team about fixing this situation? Especially now that it's clear these cops aren't just abusing the locals but involved with domestic terrorism?
Some local Chicago twitter journo/activists types have already filed a FOIA request for all Chicago Police who asked for and got time off overlapping with the Capital attack. I think this is something every city and town should do.
posted by srboisvert at 12:56 PM on January 9, 2021 [46 favorites]
I wonder if any of those mayors could meet with Biden and his team about fixing this situation? Especially now that it's clear these cops aren't just abusing the locals but involved with domestic terrorism?
Some local Chicago twitter journo/activists types have already filed a FOIA request for all Chicago Police who asked for and got time off overlapping with the Capital attack. I think this is something every city and town should do.
posted by srboisvert at 12:56 PM on January 9, 2021 [46 favorites]
BREAKING: WV Delegate Derrick Evans announces resignation from House of Delegates
Evans, who faces charges for his involvement in the Capitol insurrection, resigned from his state's House of Delegates.
posted by bluesky43 at 12:56 PM on January 9, 2021 [58 favorites]
Evans, who faces charges for his involvement in the Capitol insurrection, resigned from his state's House of Delegates.
posted by bluesky43 at 12:56 PM on January 9, 2021 [58 favorites]
Evans, who faces charges for his involvement in the Capitol insurrection, resigned from his state's House of Delegates.
I'm kind of gob smacked he did it. I can only hope the other Republicans in the WV legislature told him either resign or they'd toss him out.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 12:58 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
I'm kind of gob smacked he did it. I can only hope the other Republicans in the WV legislature told him either resign or they'd toss him out.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 12:58 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
Maybe it's time to stop the ritual, baseless complaining that Speaker Pelosi is too moderate or doesn't know what she is doing: Pelosi calls Trump "deranged, unhinged, dangerous" and says he should be prosecuted and House to vote on impeachment as early as Monday.
posted by PhineasGage at 12:59 PM on January 9, 2021 [38 favorites]
posted by PhineasGage at 12:59 PM on January 9, 2021 [38 favorites]
“Pro-Trump dark money groups organized the rally that led to deadly Capitol Hill riot,” Brian Schwartz, CNBC, 09 January 2021
America First Policies, which is also a 501(c)(4) that does not disclose its donors, is chaired by Linda McMahon, a longtime Trump ally and former head of the Small Business Administration.posted by ob1quixote at 1:06 PM on January 9, 2021 [18 favorites]
⋮
Beyond Women for America First, there were other outside groups involved in encouraging people to go to the rally.
NBC News reported that the policy arm of the Republican Attorneys General Association, the Rule of Law Defense Fund, sent out robocalls encouraging people to march on the U.S. Capitol.
Pence was surrounded by a setting defiled by hatred, feces and rejection of all fundamental and small-d democratic principles. He was responding to elected representatives who were attempting to justify the feces-smearers' actions and hold up their aim as just. All he had to do was not urinate on the floor to seem like a goddamned statesman.
If there is one big thing I have learned since the Pandemic began it is that the bar for leadership in America is set appalling low. Lower than I ever imagined. All you have to do is not become a slobbering raving loon the moment something real happens and you will be hailed as a great leader even if you are consistently screwing things up. A lot of Democratic leadership has been terrible during this pandemic. Huge lethal mistakes that would be absolutely damming in any other country. Yet they are still regarded as good strong leaders. It does help to have a Trump as a continuum anchor on the terrible side but I think it has always been true. That's how both Giuliani and GWB got hailed as great leaders on 9/11 despite not being great at all.
posted by srboisvert at 1:13 PM on January 9, 2021 [22 favorites]
If there is one big thing I have learned since the Pandemic began it is that the bar for leadership in America is set appalling low. Lower than I ever imagined. All you have to do is not become a slobbering raving loon the moment something real happens and you will be hailed as a great leader even if you are consistently screwing things up. A lot of Democratic leadership has been terrible during this pandemic. Huge lethal mistakes that would be absolutely damming in any other country. Yet they are still regarded as good strong leaders. It does help to have a Trump as a continuum anchor on the terrible side but I think it has always been true. That's how both Giuliani and GWB got hailed as great leaders on 9/11 despite not being great at all.
posted by srboisvert at 1:13 PM on January 9, 2021 [22 favorites]
Um, we have a slobbering raving loon running the country and we still have a large number of people thinking he's a great leader. Literally, there is no bar.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:25 PM on January 9, 2021 [23 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:25 PM on January 9, 2021 [23 favorites]
those totally weren't MY zip-ties and I was only holding onto them for safe keeping.
I feel like a lot of people are going to get away with "I thought I was just going to a sit in or something! The not-me minority ruined it for us all." Even the zip tie thing has a plausible "I was just trying to look like a badass, it's cosplay" defense.
But not everyone. Someone hit the cop with a fire extinguisher, and more than one person left the building with a laptop that does not belong to them with a conspicuous red "approved for processing up to SECRET" sticker on it. Mental state and intention excuses aren't going to work for them.
posted by ctmf at 1:26 PM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
I feel like a lot of people are going to get away with "I thought I was just going to a sit in or something! The not-me minority ruined it for us all." Even the zip tie thing has a plausible "I was just trying to look like a badass, it's cosplay" defense.
But not everyone. Someone hit the cop with a fire extinguisher, and more than one person left the building with a laptop that does not belong to them with a conspicuous red "approved for processing up to SECRET" sticker on it. Mental state and intention excuses aren't going to work for them.
posted by ctmf at 1:26 PM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
I just took a read through the Fox News comments on the impeachment story. Most of the comments, and all of the most-favourited comments, are angry about the impeachment attempt. I'm sure that Republican senators are picking up that sentiment via whatever feelers they have out, too. Looks like we've got yet another case of, "We were about to agree with you that Trump is bad, but then you went and did *this*, so it's your fault if we still support him."
posted by clawsoon at 1:30 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 1:30 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
Members of Several Well-Known Hate Groups* Identified at Capitol Riot (ProPublica Jan. 9, 2021) A ProPublica-FRONTLINE review of the insurrection found several noted hardcore nativists and white nationalists who also participated in the 2017 white power rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. [...] So far, police have arrested more than 80 people in connection with the attack, including at least one Proud Boy, Nick Ochs. They have seized pipe bombs and Molotov cocktails and arrested at least six people on illegal firearms charges, including one Maryland man who was captured in the visitors’ center of the Capitol. More arrests are expected.
*Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, the Groyper Army, a Boogaloo Bois group called the Last Sons of Liberty, possibly DC Under Siege (group leader was interviewed outside the building during the siege, seemed to allude to members within), and two groups described as 'now defunct': the Rise Above Movement (a Southern California white supremacist group) and Anticom ("members posted a vast trove of bomb-making manuals to a private online chatroom" in 2017). Yesterday I linked to the story about the attack on Berlinda Nibo; organizers of that Stop the Steal LA rally claimed 15 'patriotic' groups were in attendance. It also kind of squares with the reports of what went on in the Capitol once the mob got inside: some hunted politicians; some prayed; some vandalized the joint while taking selfies and souvenirs. Multiple groups (with some overlap) equipped with different agendas -- with unwitting, designated cannon fodder. The article highlights one militia group's teamwork:
As the crowds ringing the Capitol swelled on Wednesday, a small group of men clad in body armor shuffled toward the doors at the center of the building’s east-facing facade. The eight men, whose movements were captured on video, were identified by ProPublica and FRONTLINE as members of the Oath Keepers, a long-standing militia group that has pledged to ignite a civil war on behalf of Trump. Members of the group joined the protesters and insurrectionists flooding into the Capitol. Footage from later in the day shows Oath Keepers dragging a wounded comrade out of the building.
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:34 PM on January 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
*Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, the Groyper Army, a Boogaloo Bois group called the Last Sons of Liberty, possibly DC Under Siege (group leader was interviewed outside the building during the siege, seemed to allude to members within), and two groups described as 'now defunct': the Rise Above Movement (a Southern California white supremacist group) and Anticom ("members posted a vast trove of bomb-making manuals to a private online chatroom" in 2017). Yesterday I linked to the story about the attack on Berlinda Nibo; organizers of that Stop the Steal LA rally claimed 15 'patriotic' groups were in attendance. It also kind of squares with the reports of what went on in the Capitol once the mob got inside: some hunted politicians; some prayed; some vandalized the joint while taking selfies and souvenirs. Multiple groups (with some overlap) equipped with different agendas -- with unwitting, designated cannon fodder. The article highlights one militia group's teamwork:
As the crowds ringing the Capitol swelled on Wednesday, a small group of men clad in body armor shuffled toward the doors at the center of the building’s east-facing facade. The eight men, whose movements were captured on video, were identified by ProPublica and FRONTLINE as members of the Oath Keepers, a long-standing militia group that has pledged to ignite a civil war on behalf of Trump. Members of the group joined the protesters and insurrectionists flooding into the Capitol. Footage from later in the day shows Oath Keepers dragging a wounded comrade out of the building.
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:34 PM on January 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
Capitol Police to enhance security at Jan. 6 session to certify election; Efforts come ahead of protests that could be violent (Roll Call, Dec. 31, 2020) Amid tensions surrounding the presidential election results, the Capitol Police plan to bolster security when Congress convenes in a joint session next week to count the Electoral College votes and certify Joe Biden's victory in the 2020 presidential election. [...] Eva Malecki, a Capitol Police spokesperson, said the department “has comprehensive security plans in place and we continuously monitor and assess new and emerging threats, with the overall goal of keeping those within the Capitol Complex safe and secure.” [...] When the planned objection is raised, the joint session will be suspended and each chamber will meet separately to debate the objection and vote on whether to count the electoral votes in question, according to the Congressional Research Service.
Capitol riot: What our Hill reporters and photographers saw (Roll Call, Jan. 6, 2021) [Photojournalist Caroline] Brehman hid in a balcony area over Statuary Hall, peeking out occasionally to see crowds of protesters streaming through the room, which has a center walkway set off with metal stanchions. “They surprisingly stayed within the stanchions, through the chaos,” Brehman said. “It was bizarre.” At the other end of the building, photographer Tom Williams was roaming the second floor outside the House chamber. He saw a crowd at the top of an outdoor flight of steps normally used only by members during votes. They were trying to push the door, and police were holding them back. [...]
Meanwhile, on the Senate side, reporters in the press gallery offices were hustled into the chamber seating area moments after Pence was evacuated, and they were locked in. [...] Shortly after the recess was called, Grassley also was escorted from the chamber, and the senators were locked in, Cioffi said. A veteran Capitol officer stood at the president’s podium and told members to take their seats and clear the aisles. “Members were on their phones, relaying their safety,” Tully-McManus said. “Usually in the chamber, [Majority Leader Mitch] McConnell doesn’t have his [security] detail. It’s presumed to be a safe place. This time, McConnell’s detail was right next to him, up on him, blocking him from whatever would come.”
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:35 PM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Capitol riot: What our Hill reporters and photographers saw (Roll Call, Jan. 6, 2021) [Photojournalist Caroline] Brehman hid in a balcony area over Statuary Hall, peeking out occasionally to see crowds of protesters streaming through the room, which has a center walkway set off with metal stanchions. “They surprisingly stayed within the stanchions, through the chaos,” Brehman said. “It was bizarre.” At the other end of the building, photographer Tom Williams was roaming the second floor outside the House chamber. He saw a crowd at the top of an outdoor flight of steps normally used only by members during votes. They were trying to push the door, and police were holding them back. [...]
Meanwhile, on the Senate side, reporters in the press gallery offices were hustled into the chamber seating area moments after Pence was evacuated, and they were locked in. [...] Shortly after the recess was called, Grassley also was escorted from the chamber, and the senators were locked in, Cioffi said. A veteran Capitol officer stood at the president’s podium and told members to take their seats and clear the aisles. “Members were on their phones, relaying their safety,” Tully-McManus said. “Usually in the chamber, [Majority Leader Mitch] McConnell doesn’t have his [security] detail. It’s presumed to be a safe place. This time, McConnell’s detail was right next to him, up on him, blocking him from whatever would come.”
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:35 PM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
From what I can tell, Pence isn't upset that Donald Trump incited an invasion of the U.S. Capital to overthrow democracy or that a mob threatened the lives of him and his family.
It seems Pence is only upset that Trump said mean things about him "After all the things I've done for him."
It's all very weird. I don't know how his brain works.
posted by JackFlash at 1:36 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
It seems Pence is only upset that Trump said mean things about him "After all the things I've done for him."
It's all very weird. I don't know how his brain works.
posted by JackFlash at 1:36 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Capitol attackers have long threatened violence in rural American west
When the full story of the 6 January storming of the US Capitol building is told, historians will have to make sense of what might seem an odd footnote. The two most prominent rightwing militia groups that participated in the mob onslaught on Congress – the Three Percenters, based in Idaho, and the Oath Keepers, based in Nevada – cut their teeth in obscure corners of the American west, where for close to a decade they have threatened violence against federal employees and institutions that steward the nation’s public lands.posted by mumimor at 1:37 PM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
“The mob violence that swarmed the halls of the Capitol building and other government offices flows from a series of smaller armed insurrections by domestic terrorists across the west,” says Erik Molvar, executive director of the Western Watersheds Project, a non-profit that advocates for environmental regulation of public lands.
Seems like those groups should now be classified the same as Al Qaeda, with the same scrutiny and punishment. Like should have happened after Oklahoma City.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:44 PM on January 9, 2021 [37 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:44 PM on January 9, 2021 [37 favorites]
We will never be able to quantify it, exactly, but there is no doubt in my mind that the Bundy-led Malheure occupation gave carte blanche license to a lot of these militants. Followed by more recent protests where armed right-wing protesters pushed their way into state houses.
The appalling lack of consequences for most of the participants in those events is about as loud a signal as possible that “it’s okay if armed militants want to force their way into government buildings”, because nothing is going to happen to you, and you’ll get a huge PR boost from the effort.
All the more reason that these people be arrested swiftly, and their arrests be widely broadcast.
posted by darkstar at 1:48 PM on January 9, 2021 [73 favorites]
The appalling lack of consequences for most of the participants in those events is about as loud a signal as possible that “it’s okay if armed militants want to force their way into government buildings”, because nothing is going to happen to you, and you’ll get a huge PR boost from the effort.
All the more reason that these people be arrested swiftly, and their arrests be widely broadcast.
posted by darkstar at 1:48 PM on January 9, 2021 [73 favorites]
We will never be able to quantify it, exactly, but there is no doubt in my mind that the Bundy-led Malheure occupation gave carte blanche license to a lot of these militants. Followed by more recent protests where armed right-wing protesters pushed their way into state houses.
I think it's overcorrection. Ever since Ruby Ridge and Waco, the feds have treated right wing lunatics with kid gloves.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 1:53 PM on January 9, 2021 [32 favorites]
I think it's overcorrection. Ever since Ruby Ridge and Waco, the feds have treated right wing lunatics with kid gloves.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 1:53 PM on January 9, 2021 [32 favorites]
While we're debating the freedom of speech, note that Trump's new team at the Department of Defense is internally but officially calling Wednesday's insurrection "the January 6, 2021 First Amendment Protests".
posted by nicwolff at 1:58 PM on January 9, 2021 [26 favorites]
posted by nicwolff at 1:58 PM on January 9, 2021 [26 favorites]
From the latest Letters from an American by the always excellent historian Heather Cox Richardson:
This daily newsletter is so informative. Hooray for helpful historians!
posted by kristi at 1:59 PM on January 9, 2021 [27 favorites]
By Friday night, 57% of Americans told Reuters they wanted Trump removed from office immediately. Nearly 70% of Americans disapprove of Trump’s actions before the riot. Only 12% of Americans approved of the rioters; 79% of Americans described the rioters as “criminals” or “fools.” Five percent called them “patriots.”From the same article, something I haven't noticed (sorry if I missed it) in these threads:
Reuters photographer Jim Bourg, who was inside the building, told reporters he overheard three rioters in “Make America Great Again” caps plotting to find Vice President Mike Pence and hang him as a “traitor”; other insurrectionists were shouting the same.Also succinct specifics about who requested National Guard help and who refused to send it, and lots of other details. Richardson tends to link to sources.
This daily newsletter is so informative. Hooray for helpful historians!
posted by kristi at 1:59 PM on January 9, 2021 [27 favorites]
Is it normal for the Department of Defense to call events like this "First Amendment protests"?
posted by clawsoon at 2:05 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 2:05 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
By Friday night, 57% of Americans told Reuters they wanted Trump removed from office immediately. Nearly 70% of Americans disapprove of Trump’s actions before the riot. Only 12% of Americans approved of the rioters; 79% of Americans described the rioters as “criminals” or “fools.” Five percent called them “patriots.”
But the people who are likely to approve of the riots are the same people who weren't picking up the phone for polls before the election and probably aren't picking up the phone for them now. It's really hard to believe that 5%.
posted by saturday_morning at 2:07 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
But the people who are likely to approve of the riots are the same people who weren't picking up the phone for polls before the election and probably aren't picking up the phone for them now. It's really hard to believe that 5%.
posted by saturday_morning at 2:07 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
From Alexandra Petri: I see no choice but to resign from this Death Star as it begins to explode
posted by Otherwise at 2:27 PM on January 9, 2021 [38 favorites]
posted by Otherwise at 2:27 PM on January 9, 2021 [38 favorites]
Pence is such an enigma to me. It's hard to understand how someone who appears so obtuse can rise to such a prestigious position.
Based on the VP debates, is say he's quite good at being "on message." He or his staff create a set of bullet points and he delivers them -- whether or not they're relèvent to the question at hand. If those point are crafted to the audience he wants, they see him as being their guy.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 2:28 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Based on the VP debates, is say he's quite good at being "on message." He or his staff create a set of bullet points and he delivers them -- whether or not they're relèvent to the question at hand. If those point are crafted to the audience he wants, they see him as being their guy.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 2:28 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
It seems Pence is only upset that Trump said mean things about him "After all the things I've done for him."
In no way do I want to sound as if I think there is anything positive about Mike Pence -- he sucks -- but even politicians are not generally capable of the "turn on a dime" Trump-style betrayals. Ted Cruz is, obviously. But normal people need a little time to justify, even to themselves, why they are going to screw over a close associate. If you've been working closely with Trump you should know better, but you won't, because we just don't function that way. Every person Trump screws over is going to make the sad pikachu face because they never think it'll happen to them.
(Edited to add rest of comment because I keep getting cut off when I do it from the big thread, sorry mods!)
posted by grandiloquiet at 2:28 PM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
In no way do I want to sound as if I think there is anything positive about Mike Pence -- he sucks -- but even politicians are not generally capable of the "turn on a dime" Trump-style betrayals. Ted Cruz is, obviously. But normal people need a little time to justify, even to themselves, why they are going to screw over a close associate. If you've been working closely with Trump you should know better, but you won't, because we just don't function that way. Every person Trump screws over is going to make the sad pikachu face because they never think it'll happen to them.
(Edited to add rest of comment because I keep getting cut off when I do it from the big thread, sorry mods!)
posted by grandiloquiet at 2:28 PM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
I just took a read through the Fox News comments on the impeachment story. Most of the comments, and all of the most-favourited comments, are angry about the impeachment attempt. I'm sure that Republican senators are picking up that sentiment via whatever feelers they have out, too. Looks like we've got yet another case of, "We were about to agree with you that Trump is bad, but then you went and did *this*, so it's your fault if we still support him."
Hopefully that'll be a comfort to said Republican senators if, come Jan 17 or 20 or whenever, Trump riles up the troops again and this time said senators don't manage to make it out of the Capitol before the next militia mob finds them. (Please note that I'm definitely NOT hoping for or recommending this, just saying that this might not be the best time to base your next moves on what's most favorited in a comments section).
posted by gtrwolf at 2:38 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Hopefully that'll be a comfort to said Republican senators if, come Jan 17 or 20 or whenever, Trump riles up the troops again and this time said senators don't manage to make it out of the Capitol before the next militia mob finds them. (Please note that I'm definitely NOT hoping for or recommending this, just saying that this might not be the best time to base your next moves on what's most favorited in a comments section).
posted by gtrwolf at 2:38 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
I am just guessing here, but Trump threw out Esper to install Christopher C. Miller who is a Trump loyalist installed just after he lost the election. If Miller has the final word at the moment, the language about "First Amendment Protests" is more evidence for a coup attempt.
Per the current edit of WikiPedia:
In December 2020, it was reported that Miller had ordered the Pentagon to postpone 40 meetings with the incoming Joe Biden administration. Miller said that this was a "mutually agreed-upon holiday pause" with the Biden transition, but the Biden transition team said no such agreement had been made. Miller's decision to halt cooperation with the incoming administration came in the wake of President Donald Trump's refusal to concede in the election, refusals by various Trump administration political appointees to cooperate, and claims of fraud by the Trump administration. In January 2021, all ten living former defense secretaries raised alarm in an open letter against a military coup to overturn the election results, warning officials who would participate and specifically naming Miller, that they would face grave consequences if they violated the constitution.
On January 6, 2021 as rioters, allegedly Trump supporters, began breeching security at the US Capital, Acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller repeatedly denied requests by Republican Maryland Governor Hogan to deploy Maryland National Guard response teams to secure the Capital.
On January 3rd the letter from the 10 living former SecDefs, including Cheney, reads in part:
Given these factors, particularly at a time when U.S. forces are engaged in active operations around the world, it is all the more imperative that the transition at the Defense Department be carried out fully, cooperatively and transparently. Acting defense secretary Christopher C. Miller and his subordinates — political appointees, officers and civil servants — are each bound by oath, law and precedent to facilitate the entry into office of the incoming administration, and to do so wholeheartedly. They must also refrain from any political actions that undermine the results of the election or hinder the success of the new team.
I hope I am wrong, but everything points to the United States currently being in the middle of real, organized, currently unsuccessful coup d'etat. If that's the case, and Miller doesn't get perp walked at 12:01pm on Jan 20th, this year could be even longer than the last.
Perhaps all the timing behind Twitter, Google, and Apple shutting down lines of communication is evidence that various three letter agencies have the proof they need to proceed with prosecution once the inauguration is a done deal, but nobody is tipping their hand just yet. As a country we need to consider changes to Executive powers, because if you can't arrest a President in the middle of a coup, we live in a dictatorship instead of a democracy.
posted by nicoffeine at 2:40 PM on January 9, 2021 [65 favorites]
Per the current edit of WikiPedia:
In December 2020, it was reported that Miller had ordered the Pentagon to postpone 40 meetings with the incoming Joe Biden administration. Miller said that this was a "mutually agreed-upon holiday pause" with the Biden transition, but the Biden transition team said no such agreement had been made. Miller's decision to halt cooperation with the incoming administration came in the wake of President Donald Trump's refusal to concede in the election, refusals by various Trump administration political appointees to cooperate, and claims of fraud by the Trump administration. In January 2021, all ten living former defense secretaries raised alarm in an open letter against a military coup to overturn the election results, warning officials who would participate and specifically naming Miller, that they would face grave consequences if they violated the constitution.
On January 6, 2021 as rioters, allegedly Trump supporters, began breeching security at the US Capital, Acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller repeatedly denied requests by Republican Maryland Governor Hogan to deploy Maryland National Guard response teams to secure the Capital.
On January 3rd the letter from the 10 living former SecDefs, including Cheney, reads in part:
Given these factors, particularly at a time when U.S. forces are engaged in active operations around the world, it is all the more imperative that the transition at the Defense Department be carried out fully, cooperatively and transparently. Acting defense secretary Christopher C. Miller and his subordinates — political appointees, officers and civil servants — are each bound by oath, law and precedent to facilitate the entry into office of the incoming administration, and to do so wholeheartedly. They must also refrain from any political actions that undermine the results of the election or hinder the success of the new team.
I hope I am wrong, but everything points to the United States currently being in the middle of real, organized, currently unsuccessful coup d'etat. If that's the case, and Miller doesn't get perp walked at 12:01pm on Jan 20th, this year could be even longer than the last.
Perhaps all the timing behind Twitter, Google, and Apple shutting down lines of communication is evidence that various three letter agencies have the proof they need to proceed with prosecution once the inauguration is a done deal, but nobody is tipping their hand just yet. As a country we need to consider changes to Executive powers, because if you can't arrest a President in the middle of a coup, we live in a dictatorship instead of a democracy.
posted by nicoffeine at 2:40 PM on January 9, 2021 [65 favorites]
because they never think it'll happen to them.
I don't agree with that whole theory, but same root cause. They don't think it will happen to them, so they don't seriously think through "what if" scenarios on a regular basis. When it does happen, it comes as a shock and the easiest thing to do is nothing.
That they don't have some strategic aide full-time planning out "what if Trump turns on us" actions in advance is really really poor ORM.
posted by ctmf at 2:42 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
I don't agree with that whole theory, but same root cause. They don't think it will happen to them, so they don't seriously think through "what if" scenarios on a regular basis. When it does happen, it comes as a shock and the easiest thing to do is nothing.
That they don't have some strategic aide full-time planning out "what if Trump turns on us" actions in advance is really really poor ORM.
posted by ctmf at 2:42 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm trying to find some numbers:
1. how many people attended the speech?
2. how many people marched from the speech to the capitol?
3. How many people crossed the fence line but did not enter the capitol?
4. How many people entered the capitol?
posted by rebent at 2:53 PM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
1. how many people attended the speech?
2. how many people marched from the speech to the capitol?
3. How many people crossed the fence line but did not enter the capitol?
4. How many people entered the capitol?
posted by rebent at 2:53 PM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
So the old man with the sign that says "equal rights for whites" wants to be treated like blacks are? Hoo-kay.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 2:54 PM on January 9, 2021 [31 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 2:54 PM on January 9, 2021 [31 favorites]
living free from terror of possible immediate physical threat and simultaneous overthrow of democracy is something I'd apparently taken for granted
We all had - that complacency is a big part of what got us to this.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:55 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
We all had - that complacency is a big part of what got us to this.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:55 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Lost in the insurrection fracas.
Newly seated Rep. Mary Miller (R-Ill.) issued an apology on Friday for saying that Adolf "Hitler was right" about the value of influencing a nation's youth.
Miller of course has not resigned because it is no problem being a nazi in the Republican party.
A sharp knife is needed to cut out the rot in the USA. Hopefully it is not too late.
posted by adamvasco at 2:58 PM on January 9, 2021 [31 favorites]
Newly seated Rep. Mary Miller (R-Ill.) issued an apology on Friday for saying that Adolf "Hitler was right" about the value of influencing a nation's youth.
Miller of course has not resigned because it is no problem being a nazi in the Republican party.
A sharp knife is needed to cut out the rot in the USA. Hopefully it is not too late.
posted by adamvasco at 2:58 PM on January 9, 2021 [31 favorites]
Just reflecting on the cognitive dissonance in the arguments used among the alt-right to dismiss the significance of this event, but who said Benghazi was cause to disqualify Clinton from office.
posted by darkstar at 3:05 PM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 3:05 PM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
Cognitive dissonance is for when you try to resolve beliefs that result in conflicting outcomes. If you're faking it, there's no cognitive dissonance to contend with.
posted by tclark at 3:07 PM on January 9, 2021 [41 favorites]
posted by tclark at 3:07 PM on January 9, 2021 [41 favorites]
As a NW resident, this comes as no surprise, the Seattle PD is a den of Nazis.
SPD union president Mike Solan apparently wrote tweets that appear to blame Black Lives Matter for the attack on the Capitol. Several people (including the previous police chief) have called on him to apologize or resign.
A little closer to home, the SPD officer who lives down the street from me in an affluent Seattle suburb now seems to have an Idaho license plate on his huge pickup truck. I don't know when that happened.
posted by Slothrup at 3:09 PM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
SPD union president Mike Solan apparently wrote tweets that appear to blame Black Lives Matter for the attack on the Capitol. Several people (including the previous police chief) have called on him to apologize or resign.
A little closer to home, the SPD officer who lives down the street from me in an affluent Seattle suburb now seems to have an Idaho license plate on his huge pickup truck. I don't know when that happened.
posted by Slothrup at 3:09 PM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
I am just guessing here, but Trump threw out Esper to install Christopher C. Miller
>
Newly seated Rep. Mary Miller (R-Ill.) issued an apology on Friday for saying that Adolf "Hitler was right"
Also Stephen fucking Miller in general ...
Can we maybe enact a law to deny anyone named Miller from having anything to do with politics?
posted by philip-random at 3:19 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
>
Newly seated Rep. Mary Miller (R-Ill.) issued an apology on Friday for saying that Adolf "Hitler was right"
Also Stephen fucking Miller in general ...
Can we maybe enact a law to deny anyone named Miller from having anything to do with politics?
posted by philip-random at 3:19 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
More on noted piece of shit Mike Solan, and more still.
posted by StarkRoads at 3:22 PM on January 9, 2021
posted by StarkRoads at 3:22 PM on January 9, 2021
Hey now... I resemble that remark.
Not all Miller's are bad
posted by Windopaene at 3:24 PM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Not all Miller's are bad
posted by Windopaene at 3:24 PM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Another question that I'm having trouble finding the answer to:
Chris Hayes said that Ashli Babbitt was shot when jumping through a window, into the Capitol Speaker Gallery. Were there people in the Speaker Gallery? Was she shot while trying to breach the room Pense was hiding in?
posted by rebent at 3:26 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Chris Hayes said that Ashli Babbitt was shot when jumping through a window, into the Capitol Speaker Gallery. Were there people in the Speaker Gallery? Was she shot while trying to breach the room Pense was hiding in?
posted by rebent at 3:26 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Not all Miller's are bad
Only the ones who hoard grain.
posted by clawsoon at 3:28 PM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
Only the ones who hoard grain.
posted by clawsoon at 3:28 PM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
Can we maybe enact a law to deny anyone named Miller from having anything to do with politics?
The phone book of my community growing up had about two pages' worth of people named John Miller. I think that law would be too broad.
posted by The Potate at 3:31 PM on January 9, 2021
The phone book of my community growing up had about two pages' worth of people named John Miller. I think that law would be too broad.
posted by The Potate at 3:31 PM on January 9, 2021
Chris Hayes said that Ashli Babbitt was shot when jumping through a window, into the Capitol Speaker Gallery. Were there people in the Speaker Gallery? Was she shot while trying to breach the room Pense was hiding in?
As far as I can see from the descriptions now available, the Congress members and press who were in the speaker gallery could not be brought to a safe area, and were told to wear gas masks and shelter in place.
Pence was the first person to be taken to a safe space right at the beginning.
posted by mumimor at 3:31 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
As far as I can see from the descriptions now available, the Congress members and press who were in the speaker gallery could not be brought to a safe area, and were told to wear gas masks and shelter in place.
Pence was the first person to be taken to a safe space right at the beginning.
posted by mumimor at 3:31 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Radio host Farai Chideya points out that it's not just the conservative media that helped create this, the white liberal side of journalism has been complicit as well:
So many times when I tried to cover racial resentment or white nationalism my editors — and yes, I’ll name @NateSilver538 here — acted like they were protecting the truth from me. Instead they prevented Americans from learning the truth. This has had costs. To all of us. I’m naming Nate here because we had a follow up call and he took no responsibility for his actions or patronizing attitude. I hope he’s treating his current staff and the news itself better.posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 3:41 PM on January 9, 2021 [92 favorites]
I have mixed feelings about naming names. Black women are often painted as Bitter Bettys when we do. Instead we are Black Cassandras, foretelling what lies ahead but not being believed. Believe Black Women. Believe Black Women Journalists. Telling the truth requires the frisson of multiple perspectives in major media newsrooms. When we are frozen out, the entire enterprise goes off the rails. We’d never be here today — I truly believe this — if Black and POC reporters and editors had the authority and roles needed to shape the coverage of 2016.
Let’s not forget that Les Moonves of CBS said twice on earnings calls that Trump was bad for America and good for CBS. I don’t know one Black female CEO who would say that, or could keep her job if it was leaked. This is not an effing drill. We will be in a proxy civil war for years, I think. With domestic terrorism driven by white nationalism, and casualties of what’s being called “conspirituality” — the messianic devotion to conspiracies.
Who among us who covered 2016 and are still in journalism are willing to reflect, take responsibility, and do better? Because we really need better right now.
Who among us who covered 2016 and are still in journalism are willing to reflect, take responsibility, and do better? Because we really need better right now.
Oh joy. Yet another "Media Soul Searching" exercise.
Because the last 157 of them went so well.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 3:49 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Oh joy. Yet another "Media Soul Searching" exercise.
Because the last 157 of them went so well.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 3:49 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
mumimor > ...is it significant that the flags behind Trump has those gold fringes or what they are called. And/or is it normal during presidential rallies?
As explained in the article excerpt below, any fringe on an American flag is purely decorative and has no legal authority or significance. If American flags at Trump’s rallies have gold fringes, they may be trying to appeal to ultra conservative members of his base.
Wikipedia > Tax protester conspiracy arguments > Conspiracy, arguments in general:
posted by cenoxo at 3:50 PM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
As explained in the article excerpt below, any fringe on an American flag is purely decorative and has no legal authority or significance. If American flags at Trump’s rallies have gold fringes, they may be trying to appeal to ultra conservative members of his base.
Wikipedia > Tax protester conspiracy arguments > Conspiracy, arguments in general:
Claims made in support of the income tax conspiracy include:For more information, see Wikipedia’s Tax Protester article.• The gold fringe around the United States flag, as displayed in all courts, designates them as Admiralty courts, which cannot hear other kinds of cases, or signal that the court is operating under maritime lawNo court has ever upheld this argument, as neither the presence (or absence) of a flag (or of any other standard or element of decor), nor the fringe on a flag (which has no heraldic or vexillological significance), has any bearing whatsoever on the jurisdiction of a court. In United States v. Greenstreet, the United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas noted:Defendant Greenstreet's response to Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment identifies this Court as an 'Admiralty Court' without further discussing his allegation. If his reference is to be construed as a jurisdictional challenge, his motion is denied. Others have attempted to persuade the judiciary that fringe on a United States flag denotes a court of admiralty. In light of the fact that this Court has such a flag in its courtroom, the issue is addressed. The concept behind the theory the proponent asserts is that if a courtroom is adorned with a flag which happens to be fringed around the edges, such decor indicates that the court is one of admiralty jurisdiction exclusively. To think that a fringed flag adorning the courtroom somehow limits this Court's jurisdiction is frivolous … Unfortunately for Defendant Greenstreet, decor is not a determinant for jurisdiction."
posted by cenoxo at 3:50 PM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
Oh joy. Yet another "Media Soul Searching" exercise.
Because the last 157 of them went so well.
Right, because the real problem here is that a Woman of Color is pointing out problems and asking for (apparently the 158th time) that someone be accountable. Did you even bother to read anything before your quote?
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 3:53 PM on January 9, 2021 [73 favorites]
Because the last 157 of them went so well.
Right, because the real problem here is that a Woman of Color is pointing out problems and asking for (apparently the 158th time) that someone be accountable. Did you even bother to read anything before your quote?
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 3:53 PM on January 9, 2021 [73 favorites]
Chris Hayes said that Ashli Babbitt was shot when jumping through a window, into the Capitol Speaker Gallery. Were there people in the Speaker Gallery? Was she shot while trying to breach the room Pense was hiding in?
She was actually trying to jump through a door into a corridor, although I'm not sure where that corridor led to. Rioters had broken out the large glass panes of the doors, which as far as I could see had been barricaded from the other side with furniture. She jumped up into the opening and was shot from someone holding a gun in a doorway just beyond.
This is from the 40 minute "Jayden-X" video which I forced myself to watch. Aside from whoever was holding the gun (you could only see the gun itself sticking through the door), there were some people farther down the corridor.
posted by Preserver at 3:57 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
She was actually trying to jump through a door into a corridor, although I'm not sure where that corridor led to. Rioters had broken out the large glass panes of the doors, which as far as I could see had been barricaded from the other side with furniture. She jumped up into the opening and was shot from someone holding a gun in a doorway just beyond.
This is from the 40 minute "Jayden-X" video which I forced myself to watch. Aside from whoever was holding the gun (you could only see the gun itself sticking through the door), there were some people farther down the corridor.
posted by Preserver at 3:57 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
This long essay by historian Timothy Snyder is a beautifully written and pretty dispiriting look at where the Republican Party might be going. An excerpt:
Trump’s coup attempt of 2020-21, like other failed coup attempts, is a warning for those who care about the rule of law and a lesson for those who do not. His pre-fascism revealed a possibility for American politics. For a coup to work in 2024, the breakers will require something that Trump never quite had: an angry minority, organized for nationwide violence, ready to add intimidation to an election. Four years of amplifying a big lie just might get them this. To claim that the other side stole an election is to promise to steal one yourself. It is also to claim that the other side deserves to be punished.posted by theodolite at 4:03 PM on January 9, 2021 [34 favorites]
This visual guide from the Guardian is a good primer on roughly what was happening in each part of the Capitol over the course of the afternoon.
posted by Happy Dave at 4:03 PM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by Happy Dave at 4:03 PM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
Forgive my ignorance but amendments to the constitution override the original document right?
Does this mean that section 3 of the 14th amendment (the one mentioned above that bars anyone who "having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof" from holding any further office) overrides the President's ability to pardon such crimes?
(even if they pardon themself)
posted by mbo at 4:11 PM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Does this mean that section 3 of the 14th amendment (the one mentioned above that bars anyone who "having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof" from holding any further office) overrides the President's ability to pardon such crimes?
(even if they pardon themself)
posted by mbo at 4:11 PM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Mod note: Belatedly finished cleaning up a thing from earlier in the thread re: Simpson's joke about "Die, Bart, Die", please PLEASE let it be.
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:12 PM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:12 PM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
Specifically, the corridor Babbitt was trying to get into leads to the "Speakers Lobby," with multiple access doors to the House floor. See the bottommost map in Bellingcat's Journey of Ashli Babbitt article. Although I haven't seen it discussed and so may be mistaken, I believe at this time most of the House floor was evacuated, but in the gallery (balcony) were still Jayapal and a number of other representatives.
Incidentally, Jayapal's account is pretty harrowing:
posted by chortly at 4:13 PM on January 9, 2021 [69 favorites]
Incidentally, Jayapal's account is pretty harrowing:
There were a number of congresswomen up there in the gallery: Val Demings, Abigail Spanberger, Lisa Blunt Rochester, Sheila Jackson Lee, Terri Sewell...She adds more details in that interview, particularly about the intersections of race, gender, and politics, that are worth reading too.
Then we started getting alerts on our phone that security had been breached. And we began hearing the noises, perhaps even before people on the floor could hear them. We could hear the insurrectionists coming in. Then we saw the Speaker and the leadership being taken off the floor; there was a brief suspension of proceedings, but by then we were seeing all the social-media posts of what was happening outside. And the noise was getting louder and louder.
Before we knew it, everyone on the floor below us had been removed, and … we were still there. And it didn’t look like anyone was coming to get us.
The Capitol police with us seemed very confused about who had the key to the doors. They were closed, but we weren’t sure if they were locked, and we were yelling, “Lock the doors! Lock the doors!” We heard shots being fired, presumably into the chamber.
They told us to take off our masks to put on the gas masks that were under our seats. I just got a knee replaced five weeks ago, and I had a cane. My concern was would I be able to get up and down quickly enough if we needed to get out. Capitol police had barricades up against the doors, and the police were in a half-circle around those barricades with their guns drawn. We were kind of waving and saying, “Hey, how about us? How do we get out of here?” I don’t know how long it was, maybe an hour and a half, until we were finally ushered out and taken down the stairs to a secure location — which was another challenge with my knee. I basically had to hang on to Mikie Sherrill to get down six flights of stairs.
I’m quarantining now because I am convinced that where we ended up, in the secured room — where there were over 100 people and many were Republicans not wearing masks — was a superspreader event.
posted by chortly at 4:13 PM on January 9, 2021 [69 favorites]
These Black Capitol Police Officers Describe Fighting Off "Racist Ass Terrorists"
Two Black officers told BuzzFeed News that their chief and other upper management left them totally unprepared and were nowhere to be found on the day.
posted by bluesky43 at 4:13 PM on January 9, 2021 [78 favorites]
Two Black officers told BuzzFeed News that their chief and other upper management left them totally unprepared and were nowhere to be found on the day.
posted by bluesky43 at 4:13 PM on January 9, 2021 [78 favorites]
Look is there any way we can just remove the original Simpsons reference because it has caused an incessant string of comments like this, including my own.
100% reading comprehension fail on my part. Apologies everyone.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:14 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
100% reading comprehension fail on my part. Apologies everyone.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:14 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
BREAKING: GOP Sen. Pat Toomey says "I do think the president committed an impeachable offense"
/the link had a Fox News video but no way am I gonna link that shit.
posted by bluesky43 at 4:15 PM on January 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
/the link had a Fox News video but no way am I gonna link that shit.
posted by bluesky43 at 4:15 PM on January 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
Does this mean that section 3 of the 14th amendment (the one mentioned above that bars anyone who "having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof" from holding any further office) overrides the President's ability to pardon such crimes?
I've been thinking about something along these lines for a couple days. For whatever my opinion is worth, I think it would not rule out a pardon but it would prevent even a pardon from allowing a person who has engaged in insurrection to serve in public office without the consent of Congress.
One thing that I'm especially curious about: How is it determined whether someone has engaged in insurrection? Notice that the amendment does not require that the person have been convicted of engaging in insurrection. There is no specification of the legal standard! So, suppose the House passed a resolution -- not impeachment articles but simply a resolution -- asserting that Trump had engaged in insurrection. Then the amendment says that if the House is right, Trump isn't allowed to be President. Could the House then sue on that basis with the remedy being that Trump is barred from serving unless or until Congress authorizes?
Regardless, it seems to me that the Congress should pass a bill in the new session, when the Democrats have a tie-break majority, naming a bunch of people as insurrectionists and hence, laying the foundation for barring them from public service in the future.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 4:21 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
I've been thinking about something along these lines for a couple days. For whatever my opinion is worth, I think it would not rule out a pardon but it would prevent even a pardon from allowing a person who has engaged in insurrection to serve in public office without the consent of Congress.
One thing that I'm especially curious about: How is it determined whether someone has engaged in insurrection? Notice that the amendment does not require that the person have been convicted of engaging in insurrection. There is no specification of the legal standard! So, suppose the House passed a resolution -- not impeachment articles but simply a resolution -- asserting that Trump had engaged in insurrection. Then the amendment says that if the House is right, Trump isn't allowed to be President. Could the House then sue on that basis with the remedy being that Trump is barred from serving unless or until Congress authorizes?
Regardless, it seems to me that the Congress should pass a bill in the new session, when the Democrats have a tie-break majority, naming a bunch of people as insurrectionists and hence, laying the foundation for barring them from public service in the future.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 4:21 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
Congress can’t declare people guilty of crimes; bills of attainder are flatly unconstitutional. Also, Congress removed the disqualification in 1898.
(As everyone knows, the proper place to discuss TV shows is in FanFare.)
posted by Huffy Puffy at 4:32 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
(As everyone knows, the proper place to discuss TV shows is in FanFare.)
posted by Huffy Puffy at 4:32 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
at least within England. (I was going to say Great Britain, but I'm not sure how he felt about Irish democracy.)
Ireland is a different island from Great Britain.
posted by biffa at 4:33 PM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
Ireland is a different island from Great Britain.
posted by biffa at 4:33 PM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
Ireland is a different island from Great Britain.
Ah, yes. Of course. Hence "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and..."
My dumb.
posted by clawsoon at 4:37 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Ah, yes. Of course. Hence "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and..."
My dumb.
posted by clawsoon at 4:37 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Also, Congress removed the disqualification in 1898.
posted by nobody at 4:46 PM on January 9, 2021
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the disability imposed by section three of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States heretofore incurred is hereby removed.Did this really nullify the entire requirement moving forward, or just for those who had "[t]heretofore incurred" its disqualification?
posted by nobody at 4:46 PM on January 9, 2021
Congress can’t declare people guilty of crimes; bills of attainder are flatly unconstitutional. Also, Congress removed the disqualification in 1898.
But neither of those applies here. It's not a question of criminality. The amendment doesn't say anything about being convicted of any crime. So, it's an open question what it means for someone to count as an insurrectionist under the amendment. That's what I'm saying should be tested in court. Also, the disqualification in 1898 doesn't matter here because that is a statute, which cannot overrule an amendment. The function of that act was to formally readmit people who were barred, as the amendment requires. But that act cannot undo the force of the amendment with respect to insurrections that hadn't then occurred.
Also, I don't appreciate the swipe about discussing a TV show. I'm perfectly happy to be corrected or to carry on a discussion, but I don't need that kind of condescension, thanks.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 4:47 PM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
But neither of those applies here. It's not a question of criminality. The amendment doesn't say anything about being convicted of any crime. So, it's an open question what it means for someone to count as an insurrectionist under the amendment. That's what I'm saying should be tested in court. Also, the disqualification in 1898 doesn't matter here because that is a statute, which cannot overrule an amendment. The function of that act was to formally readmit people who were barred, as the amendment requires. But that act cannot undo the force of the amendment with respect to insurrections that hadn't then occurred.
Also, I don't appreciate the swipe about discussing a TV show. I'm perfectly happy to be corrected or to carry on a discussion, but I don't need that kind of condescension, thanks.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 4:47 PM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
Bellingcat synced up the four different views of the Ashli Babbitt shooting here.
Content warning for obvious reasons, but you can see there's still people moving around the far end of the corridor.
posted by MattWPBS at 4:52 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Content warning for obvious reasons, but you can see there's still people moving around the far end of the corridor.
posted by MattWPBS at 4:52 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Important note I've kept forgetting to mention—everyone should work on polishing their best “true-true of the bigly sad” of the past few days and years to tell the kids, to pass down to our descendants, to tell Halle Berry when she comes in a giant techno-catamaran to rescue them from their lives of subsistence farming and depredations by cannibal warlords.
Ha, I tried to find an image of the techno-catamaran to link to but the search results are all clogged up because evidently all the rich people have named their yachts “Cloud Atlas” during the past decade and posted copious photos online. FML.
posted by XMLicious at 4:55 PM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Ha, I tried to find an image of the techno-catamaran to link to but the search results are all clogged up because evidently all the rich people have named their yachts “Cloud Atlas” during the past decade and posted copious photos online. FML.
posted by XMLicious at 4:55 PM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
[If already posted in fast-moving thread please remove]
"[I]nstead of being honored by the supporters of a man who likes to call himself the "law and order" president, Black Capitol officers found themselves under attack."
A distillation of 400+ years. We must and shall overcome.
posted by riverlife at 4:56 PM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
"[I]nstead of being honored by the supporters of a man who likes to call himself the "law and order" president, Black Capitol officers found themselves under attack."
A distillation of 400+ years. We must and shall overcome.
posted by riverlife at 4:56 PM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
Remember the mysterious sudden resignation of the U.S. Attorney in Georgia last week?
Turns out, not unexpectedly, that Trump forced him out because he wasn't pursuing voter fraud allegations in Georgia to Trump's satisfaction. The unanswered question is who did the dirty deed. Presumably it would be Acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen, a known Trump toady.
Sounds like more obstruction of justice.
posted by JackFlash at 4:59 PM on January 9, 2021 [36 favorites]
Turns out, not unexpectedly, that Trump forced him out because he wasn't pursuing voter fraud allegations in Georgia to Trump's satisfaction. The unanswered question is who did the dirty deed. Presumably it would be Acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen, a known Trump toady.
Sounds like more obstruction of justice.
posted by JackFlash at 4:59 PM on January 9, 2021 [36 favorites]
And remember all the hoopla about this yesterday:
Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski calls on President Trump to resign, questions her future as a Republican
And people giving her kudos for finally doing the right thing? And the lectures about welcoming the ex-Trumpers?
Well, not so fast. When directly asked today whether she would consider caucusing with the Democrats she said:
"No. No. Absolutely, unequivocally not."
So her "crisis of conscience" is just a big fat nothing. She's sticking fast with the Republicans even if she doesn't wear the badge in public.
posted by JackFlash at 5:14 PM on January 9, 2021 [49 favorites]
Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski calls on President Trump to resign, questions her future as a Republican
And people giving her kudos for finally doing the right thing? And the lectures about welcoming the ex-Trumpers?
Well, not so fast. When directly asked today whether she would consider caucusing with the Democrats she said:
"No. No. Absolutely, unequivocally not."
So her "crisis of conscience" is just a big fat nothing. She's sticking fast with the Republicans even if she doesn't wear the badge in public.
posted by JackFlash at 5:14 PM on January 9, 2021 [49 favorites]
So it turns out the 14th amendment section 3 question is more complex than I had thought; it was applied most recently in 1917. Here’s a PDF which explains the history and application.
For the President, it would probably be a challenge of the electors in Congress, like we just had.
For appointed federal officers, you’d need to get the Attorney General to bring a court case in DC, and it is apparently extremely difficult to do so if you’re not the AG.
For Congress, the specific house would decide if it were offered before the member was sworn in (but it could still be decided by a majority after). If a challenge is brought after the member is seated, it takes 2/3 to expel.
This is that guy’s opinion, but he provides backstory and examples.
Also, I made a FanFare post earlier this afternoon as a place to make jokes but then my link comment got deleted, so I was trying to sneakily bring it back. Timing!
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:16 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
For the President, it would probably be a challenge of the electors in Congress, like we just had.
For appointed federal officers, you’d need to get the Attorney General to bring a court case in DC, and it is apparently extremely difficult to do so if you’re not the AG.
For Congress, the specific house would decide if it were offered before the member was sworn in (but it could still be decided by a majority after). If a challenge is brought after the member is seated, it takes 2/3 to expel.
This is that guy’s opinion, but he provides backstory and examples.
Also, I made a FanFare post earlier this afternoon as a place to make jokes but then my link comment got deleted, so I was trying to sneakily bring it back. Timing!
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:16 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Apparently (I don't have a WaPo account so can't confirm but its mentioned in passing in this article and was spotted on twitter (for what thats worth)) Babbit had been part of a National Guard unit which practiced to secure the White House - so she knew what she was doing and where she was going (you could argue any tourist who wandered around the building beforehand probably did too). It'll be interesting to see the background (financial & occupational) for those ID'd and subsequently arrested to see what the potential mix of 'yahoo following the mob' vs 'potentially deadly serious threat' is over the coming months. Even the zip-tie thing is being explained away but you have to wonder if they were opportunistically taken, why? Presumably not to tidy cables when they got home.
posted by phigmov at 5:18 PM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by phigmov at 5:18 PM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
Kieran Healy: "In summary, the theory is that these are not the brightest guys, and things got out of hand. Trump and the White House et al knew there were genuinely dangerous people in their MAGA/Q mob. The MAGA people they were in communication with (as per Acosta’s tweet) were likely more on the leading edge of the rank and file, rather than the true loons. They thought things would go as protests outside the Capitol usually go, and as their rallies usually go. The crowd would serve as a loud prop. The really dangerous people would be diluted by the rank and file and kept out by the Capitol Police in any case. There would be a great deal of immediate drama and a great deal immediately at stake....What he [Trump] envisioned, I think, was a mass of adoring supporters at the very gates of the Capitol, expressing their love and loyalty for him, and together, they would make Congress capitulate to their will."
posted by dhruva at 5:36 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by dhruva at 5:36 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
What he [Trump] envisioned, I think, was a mass of adoring supporters at the very gates of the Capitol, expressing their love and loyalty for him, and together, they would make Congress capitulate to their will.
Bullshit.
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 5:39 PM on January 9, 2021 [95 favorites]
Bullshit.
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 5:39 PM on January 9, 2021 [95 favorites]
Even the zip-tie thing is being explained away but you have to wonder if they were opportunistically taken, why?
To prevent them from being used on the protestors themselves? (Just a guess, based on Untitled Goose Game...)
posted by unknowncommand at 5:44 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
To prevent them from being used on the protestors themselves? (Just a guess, based on Untitled Goose Game...)
posted by unknowncommand at 5:44 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Complete bullshit. There were pipe bombs, molotov cocktails, and a shitload of concealed carry. He egged people on to hunt down Pence. He wanted the True Patriots to go in, kill a bunch of people, and stop the confirmation. People specifically went after Pence and Pelosi and those in the possible chain of command if Trump was removed. He wanted enough chaos/death that there would be no clear succession chain and oops guess what I guess we're stuck with Trump.
You don't need to have a written plan for a coup. You can just thrash around and destroy enough pillars of the government that you're the last one standing in the power vacuum.
posted by benzenedream at 5:45 PM on January 9, 2021 [81 favorites]
You don't need to have a written plan for a coup. You can just thrash around and destroy enough pillars of the government that you're the last one standing in the power vacuum.
posted by benzenedream at 5:45 PM on January 9, 2021 [81 favorites]
Also, Congress removed the disqualification in 1898.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the disability imposed by section three of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States heretofore incurred is hereby removed.
So it's a whole thing to pass a constitutional amendment, but you can just pass a law to line item veto it after the fact? How does that square with needing the 21st Amendment?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 5:46 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the disability imposed by section three of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States heretofore incurred is hereby removed.
So it's a whole thing to pass a constitutional amendment, but you can just pass a law to line item veto it after the fact? How does that square with needing the 21st Amendment?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 5:46 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Pence has not ruled out 25th Amendment, source says.
posted by glonous keming at 5:48 PM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
Vice President Mike Pence has not ruled out an effort to invoke the 25th Amendment and wants to preserve the option in case President Donald Trump becomes more unstable, a source close to the vice president says.I was gonna selectively quote this but the entire story is literally 4 sentences so I just pasted in the whole thing.
The source said there is some concern inside Pence's team that there are risks to invoking the 25th Amendment or even to an impeachment process, as Trump could take some sort of rash action putting the nation at risk.
For now, the source said Pence and his advisers hope to provide a bridge to the next administration and do as much as possible to assist President-elect Joe Biden's team in preparing for dealing with the coronavirus pandemic.
But, the source cautioned, it has become clear this week that it is necessary to keep the 25th Amendment option on the table based on Trump's actions.
posted by glonous keming at 5:48 PM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
So... Kieran Healy (who I had never heard of) is apparently just saying that is his personal theory about what happened.
posted by wondermouse at 5:48 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by wondermouse at 5:48 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
"Newly seated Rep. Mary Miller (R-Ill.) issued an apology on Friday for saying that Adolf "Hitler was right" about the value of influencing a nation's youth.
Miller of course has not resigned because it is no problem being a nazi in the Republican party."
Illinois politics blogs are calling her "Heil Mary." I'm not suuuuuuuper hopeful she can be shamed into resigning -- but there's a lot of pressure, including from the establishment wing of the state GOP. Unfortunately, the Trumpist wing is a lot better-funded (thanks, Tom Ricketts and Dick Uihlein and Bruce Rauner). If she were in the statehouse I think the party would probably expel her, but in terms of the US Congressional delegation, there are five Republicans, of whom three are full-on Trumpists (Davis, Bost, Miller), one is a coward and quisling (LaHood), and only one is objecting to Trump (Kinzinger). Notably, Kinzinger is the only GOP Congressperson representing the northern part of the state (i.e., Chicago and its suburbs). Miller's husband serves in the Illinois statehouse, which is a point of leverage. But state GOP party leadership is in considerable disarray; the elected reps in rural parts of the state and the big-money donors lead hard Trumpist. The leadership is considerably more centrist and Chicago-oriented, buuuuuuut four years of Trump has all but wiped out the GOP in the Chicago suburbs, and a lot of their long-tenured, centrist-ish leadership has lost their seats because of suburban disgust at Trump. And a significant number of the rest of them are about to be indicted by the feds for bribery. (As are a significant number of democrats, we're equal-opportunity corrupt.)
Illinois's losing a seat from the 2020 census, though, and it's going to be a downstate seat. Miller just made it hiiiiiiiiiiiiiighly likely her district is the one that disappears if she refuses to resign, because her statehouse GOP colleagues aren't going to be all that motivated to protect her after this bullshit.
(Also Mary Miller grew up in NAPERVILLE, she knows better than to fucking quote Hitler.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:50 PM on January 9, 2021 [39 favorites]
Miller of course has not resigned because it is no problem being a nazi in the Republican party."
Illinois politics blogs are calling her "Heil Mary." I'm not suuuuuuuper hopeful she can be shamed into resigning -- but there's a lot of pressure, including from the establishment wing of the state GOP. Unfortunately, the Trumpist wing is a lot better-funded (thanks, Tom Ricketts and Dick Uihlein and Bruce Rauner). If she were in the statehouse I think the party would probably expel her, but in terms of the US Congressional delegation, there are five Republicans, of whom three are full-on Trumpists (Davis, Bost, Miller), one is a coward and quisling (LaHood), and only one is objecting to Trump (Kinzinger). Notably, Kinzinger is the only GOP Congressperson representing the northern part of the state (i.e., Chicago and its suburbs). Miller's husband serves in the Illinois statehouse, which is a point of leverage. But state GOP party leadership is in considerable disarray; the elected reps in rural parts of the state and the big-money donors lead hard Trumpist. The leadership is considerably more centrist and Chicago-oriented, buuuuuuut four years of Trump has all but wiped out the GOP in the Chicago suburbs, and a lot of their long-tenured, centrist-ish leadership has lost their seats because of suburban disgust at Trump. And a significant number of the rest of them are about to be indicted by the feds for bribery. (As are a significant number of democrats, we're equal-opportunity corrupt.)
Illinois's losing a seat from the 2020 census, though, and it's going to be a downstate seat. Miller just made it hiiiiiiiiiiiiiighly likely her district is the one that disappears if she refuses to resign, because her statehouse GOP colleagues aren't going to be all that motivated to protect her after this bullshit.
(Also Mary Miller grew up in NAPERVILLE, she knows better than to fucking quote Hitler.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:50 PM on January 9, 2021 [39 favorites]
Yes and I am saying it is my personal theory that his theory is bullshit. Minimizing, poorly informed, deflectionist bullshit.
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 5:50 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 5:50 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
everyone should work on polishing their best “true-true of the bigly sad” of the past few days and years to tell the kids
Kids in this house are paying attention and have been since the day they heard older kids talking about Sandy Hook on the bus. They connect that to this in ways I don't but they are not wrong. One is black and the other two feel it deeply. They don't want kids of their own unless things get fixed. I didn't either. Oops.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 5:50 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Kids in this house are paying attention and have been since the day they heard older kids talking about Sandy Hook on the bus. They connect that to this in ways I don't but they are not wrong. One is black and the other two feel it deeply. They don't want kids of their own unless things get fixed. I didn't either. Oops.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 5:50 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Someone posted the same link I did while I was still typing it, so never mind.
posted by gtrwolf at 5:51 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by gtrwolf at 5:51 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Congress removed the disqualification in 1898.
So I share in the skepticism of highly doubting that the Congress of 1898, as it was opening its maw to swallow recently-rebellious fragments of the Spanish Empire like our “insular possession” Puerto Rico and the O.G. multi-decade occupation against Islamic insurgency Annexation of the Philippines (Iraq II also being Annexation of the Philippines II, US-Afghanistan-quagmire being Annexation of the Philippines III, the latter two having the additional distinction of being simultaneous land wars in Asia)—most notably involving installing American generals as military governors of the hapless heathens and savages of these places and giving them command of comparatively vast resources for “peacetime”—passed a law saying that insurrection against the United States of America by its own officers and officials was completely kosher now.
But even if that's what happened, I hope that everyone can see that right now, our present government-thing affirming that “the post-Civil-War rules about insurrections and Black people having rights totally still count” is way, way more important than taking some specific action against Trump.
posted by XMLicious at 5:52 PM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
The source said there is some concern inside Pence's team that there are risks to invoking the 25th Amendment or even to an impeachment process, as Trump could take some sort of rash action putting the nation at risk.
Oh so the entire administration is an abusive household, fun
posted by jason_steakums at 5:53 PM on January 9, 2021 [28 favorites]
Oh so the entire administration is an abusive household, fun
posted by jason_steakums at 5:53 PM on January 9, 2021 [28 favorites]
Also, the sergeant at arms was likely in on the coup:
posted by benzenedream at 5:54 PM on January 9, 2021 [60 favorites]
Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.), a trusted Pelosi ally who chairs the committee in charge of Capitol security logistics, said Sund misled her about the security preparations for the Jan. 6. session.He lied to congresspeople about the preparations, let his officers get overwhelmed, and left Congress scrambling to save their lives. I'd be very surprised if there was no coordination between Sund and the MAGAhats or Trump.
Lofgren told reporters Thursday that the Capitol Police chief assured her that all contingencies were in place and "there was no doubt they were completely able to keep us secure in the Capitol." The National Guard was at the ready, Lofgren said Sund told her.
"We were told it was all in place, it was all a go," she said. "It was just not true. They had not been called."
posted by benzenedream at 5:54 PM on January 9, 2021 [60 favorites]
So it's a whole thing to pass a constitutional amendment, but you can just pass a law to line item veto it after the fact? How does that square with needing the 21st Amendment?
It worked in this case, to remove the disability "heretofore incurred", only because the Fourteenth Amendment specifically authorizes Congress to do so:
It worked in this case, to remove the disability "heretofore incurred", only because the Fourteenth Amendment specifically authorizes Congress to do so:
Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.posted by Not A Thing at 5:55 PM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
The source said there is some concern inside Pence's team that there are risks to invoking the 25th Amendment or even to an impeachment process, as Trump could take some sort of rash action putting the nation at risk.
I don't understand this. He already did take some sort of rash action putting the nation at risk. He will probably take another action that puts us at risk regardless. This is like those congress members who are saying they shouldn't impeach Trump now because it will inflame his supporters. Dudes, they are already inflamed, hence the insurrection.
posted by wondermouse at 5:58 PM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
I don't understand this. He already did take some sort of rash action putting the nation at risk. He will probably take another action that puts us at risk regardless. This is like those congress members who are saying they shouldn't impeach Trump now because it will inflame his supporters. Dudes, they are already inflamed, hence the insurrection.
posted by wondermouse at 5:58 PM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
Illinois's losing a seat from the 2020 census, though, and it's going to be a downstate seat. Miller just made it hiiiiiiiiiiiiiighly likely her district is the one that disappears if she refuses to resign, because her statehouse GOP colleagues aren't going to be all that motivated to protect her after this bullshit.
Eyebrows, I love the thoroughly inside-baseball level of your knowledge of Illinois politics. This particular tidbit of it is delicious.
posted by notoriety public at 5:59 PM on January 9, 2021 [29 favorites]
Eyebrows, I love the thoroughly inside-baseball level of your knowledge of Illinois politics. This particular tidbit of it is delicious.
posted by notoriety public at 5:59 PM on January 9, 2021 [29 favorites]
Democratic congressman Jim Cooper of Tennessee has accused Capitol Police (USCP) of potentially being complicit in allowing hundreds of rioters to breach the US Capitol (The Independent). (Cooper has repped Tennessee's fifth district since 2003.)
[Rep. Tim] Ryan said he’d had conversations with security as recently as the night before, and had been assured that nobody would be allowed near the Capitol, and that the national guard, D.C. metro police and SWAT teams were to be engaged; House Democrat probing any 'inside' support from police amid Capitol riot (The Hill) (Ryan, representing Ohio, also has been in Congress since 2003.)
Yesterday, House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn told SiriusXM that rioters “went where you won’t find my name, but they found where I was supposed to be,” noting that they found his unmarked office, in which he says he does most of his work, while seeming to pass over his ceremonial one. “So something else was going on untoward here,” Clyburn said. (Democrats Investigate Capitol Security Failings, Vox) (South Carolina's Clyburn, in office since '93; these are all veteran politicians very familiar with the USCP and the workings of the Capitol building's security.)
The Capitol police force and the possible culpability of some of its members puts a different slant on an anecdote in this February 2020 article, "Rep. Jason Crow opens up about what it was like for a rookie politician to argue an impeachment trial, face death threats, and not lose hope." A few hours after the U.S. Senate voted to acquit President Trump, bringing a swift end to the third impeachment trial in American history, a pair of armed police officers escorted Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado for the last time back to his Capitol Hill apartment. As one of the seven House impeachment managers, Crow had spent the last three weeks making the case to senators, and to the American people, that Trump should be removed from office. He had stood in the white-hot center of our politics. The scrutiny, he’d expected. The death threats, not so much. Hence the security detail.
Now, with the trial over, the Capitol Police officers would report back to their regular posts, and Crow would return to his life as just one of 435 members in the House of Representatives. As they said goodbye, one of the officers told Crow, “Don’t forget about us.”
Crow's one of the "Gang of Nine" squad, freshman Democratic reps with military or intelligence agency backgrounds; most signed on to this Sept. 24, 2019 op-ed "Seven freshman Democrats: These allegations are a threat to all we have sworn to protect" (cached link) in the Washington Post re: Trump's Ukraine extortion ("we call on our colleagues in Congress to consider the use of all congressional authorities available to us, including the power of 'inherent contempt' and impeachment hearings, to address these new allegations, find the truth and protect our national security"). On the evening of the 24th, Pelosi announced that six committees of the House of Representatives would begin a formal impeachment inquiry into President Trump.
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:02 PM on January 9, 2021 [44 favorites]
[Rep. Tim] Ryan said he’d had conversations with security as recently as the night before, and had been assured that nobody would be allowed near the Capitol, and that the national guard, D.C. metro police and SWAT teams were to be engaged; House Democrat probing any 'inside' support from police amid Capitol riot (The Hill) (Ryan, representing Ohio, also has been in Congress since 2003.)
Yesterday, House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn told SiriusXM that rioters “went where you won’t find my name, but they found where I was supposed to be,” noting that they found his unmarked office, in which he says he does most of his work, while seeming to pass over his ceremonial one. “So something else was going on untoward here,” Clyburn said. (Democrats Investigate Capitol Security Failings, Vox) (South Carolina's Clyburn, in office since '93; these are all veteran politicians very familiar with the USCP and the workings of the Capitol building's security.)
The Capitol police force and the possible culpability of some of its members puts a different slant on an anecdote in this February 2020 article, "Rep. Jason Crow opens up about what it was like for a rookie politician to argue an impeachment trial, face death threats, and not lose hope." A few hours after the U.S. Senate voted to acquit President Trump, bringing a swift end to the third impeachment trial in American history, a pair of armed police officers escorted Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado for the last time back to his Capitol Hill apartment. As one of the seven House impeachment managers, Crow had spent the last three weeks making the case to senators, and to the American people, that Trump should be removed from office. He had stood in the white-hot center of our politics. The scrutiny, he’d expected. The death threats, not so much. Hence the security detail.
Now, with the trial over, the Capitol Police officers would report back to their regular posts, and Crow would return to his life as just one of 435 members in the House of Representatives. As they said goodbye, one of the officers told Crow, “Don’t forget about us.”
Crow's one of the "Gang of Nine" squad, freshman Democratic reps with military or intelligence agency backgrounds; most signed on to this Sept. 24, 2019 op-ed "Seven freshman Democrats: These allegations are a threat to all we have sworn to protect" (cached link) in the Washington Post re: Trump's Ukraine extortion ("we call on our colleagues in Congress to consider the use of all congressional authorities available to us, including the power of 'inherent contempt' and impeachment hearings, to address these new allegations, find the truth and protect our national security"). On the evening of the 24th, Pelosi announced that six committees of the House of Representatives would begin a formal impeachment inquiry into President Trump.
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:02 PM on January 9, 2021 [44 favorites]
It worked in this case, to remove the disability "heretofore incurred", only because the Fourteenth Amendment specifically authorizes Congress to do so:
Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
This for sure seems open to challenge, it depends if you read that clause of the 14th as giving Congress the ability to blanket remove the disability for everyone by a single 2/3 vote, or remove it on a case-by-case basis which seems much more reasonable.
Wikipedia just makes it seems like Congress has their cake and eats it too if they want to enforce it against the left, surprise surprise:
Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
This for sure seems open to challenge, it depends if you read that clause of the 14th as giving Congress the ability to blanket remove the disability for everyone by a single 2/3 vote, or remove it on a case-by-case basis which seems much more reasonable.
Wikipedia just makes it seems like Congress has their cake and eats it too if they want to enforce it against the left, surprise surprise:
In 1898, the Congress enacted a general removal of the Section 3 limitation.posted by jason_steakums at 6:04 PM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
[...]
Section 3 was used to prevent Socialist Party of America member Victor L. Berger, convicted of violating the Espionage Act for his anti-militarist views, from taking his seat in the House of Representatives in 1919 and 1920.
What he [Trump] envisioned, I think, was a mass of adoring supporters at the very gates of the Capitol, expressing their love and loyalty for him, and together, they would make Congress capitulate to their will.
One of the things that haunts me is that if the crowd had broken through the first barricades but then sat peacefully surrounding the Capitol without going in, the media would have 100% reported it as a significant 'thousands of Americans protest voting irregularities' worthy of being taken seriously. Frankly, it took their violence and lawlessness to change the narrative juuuuust enough that some media are alllllmost willing to tar Cruz and Hawley with the same negative brush as Trump.
posted by Mchelly at 6:05 PM on January 9, 2021 [39 favorites]
One of the things that haunts me is that if the crowd had broken through the first barricades but then sat peacefully surrounding the Capitol without going in, the media would have 100% reported it as a significant 'thousands of Americans protest voting irregularities' worthy of being taken seriously. Frankly, it took their violence and lawlessness to change the narrative juuuuust enough that some media are alllllmost willing to tar Cruz and Hawley with the same negative brush as Trump.
posted by Mchelly at 6:05 PM on January 9, 2021 [39 favorites]
Because reality needs to be more circular, Jason Crow also represents the district containing Columbine High School. If there's anyone who can be proud that their representative kept a cool head under these circumstances, it's them.
posted by Riki tiki at 6:20 PM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by Riki tiki at 6:20 PM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
It appears that Amazon is kicking Parler off AWS effective around the end of the day Sunday.
posted by Juffo-Wup at 6:20 PM on January 9, 2021 [74 favorites]
posted by Juffo-Wup at 6:20 PM on January 9, 2021 [74 favorites]
Buzzfeed now reporting that Amazon has decided to stop hosting Parler on AWS. The ban goes into effect Sunday. No comment from anyone at Parler.
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:20 PM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:20 PM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
that the national guard, D.C. metro police and SWAT teams were to be engaged
"I just forgot to call those three agencies that I always call for any important high security events, which is my job that I have done successfully hundreds of times before."
C'mon, I'm all for the incompetence hypothesis but this strains credulity. All these people need to be investigated for collaboration ASAP.
posted by benzenedream at 6:22 PM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
"I just forgot to call those three agencies that I always call for any important high security events, which is my job that I have done successfully hundreds of times before."
C'mon, I'm all for the incompetence hypothesis but this strains credulity. All these people need to be investigated for collaboration ASAP.
posted by benzenedream at 6:22 PM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
One of the things that haunts me is that if the crowd had broken through the first barricades but then sat peacefully surrounding the Capitol without going in, the media would have 100% reported it as a significant 'thousands of Americans protest voting irregularities' worthy of being taken seriously.
Except for the media that's already on Team Trump, I highly doubt it. CNN, for one, has used the words "baseless" or "unfounded" in every single story about alleged voting fraud.
posted by Crane Shot at 6:25 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Except for the media that's already on Team Trump, I highly doubt it. CNN, for one, has used the words "baseless" or "unfounded" in every single story about alleged voting fraud.
posted by Crane Shot at 6:25 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Incidentally, Apple has banned Parler from the iOS App Store. Like I predicted, the 24-hour warning was purely Apple covering their own ass in the matter rather than an indication they expected Parler to change to their satisfaction. Existing installations will continue to work until Amazon kicks Parler, but Parler can no longer update the app and fresh installs are no longer possible. This may also mean that if Parler successfully moves to a new host, the Parler app will be incompatible, and therefore permanently incapacitated.
posted by at by at 6:28 PM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by at by at 6:28 PM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
Okay... so, we're at five years after Trump publicly committing the constitutional definition of treason with zero consequences, Gianforte in Montana physically attacking a reporter to avoid answering a question and still getting elected and still getting seated in the Senate, all of the Nazis simply making up whatever they feel like whenever they want to... like, pedo-Satanism is a material topic in our political discourse... and any litigation is, again, going to be appealed up to a Supreme Court wherein one of the sitting justices is a serial gang rapist: not even the Nazis who put him there will take any outcome seriously because they know what they did and they did it on purpose.
Hence all of this earnest Comic Book Guy from The Android's Dungeon dithering over what the rules technically say or don't say pretty much seems like a mime pretending they're stuck in a box to me.
Our government-thing can say whatever it wants and we should not be limiting our expectations of our civil servants based on technicalities from another century; no pomp and circumstance and veneration of hallowed legal texts now is going to put Humpty Dumpty back together.
I enjoy dithering over technicalities but now is not the time; now doing so is just minutely aligning the deck chairs on the Titanic, like a British royal etiquette specialist laying out the flatware with a ruler for a state dinner with Trump where he's simply going to ask for a burnt steak with ketchup and sexually harass the Queen.
posted by XMLicious at 6:30 PM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
Hence all of this earnest Comic Book Guy from The Android's Dungeon dithering over what the rules technically say or don't say pretty much seems like a mime pretending they're stuck in a box to me.
Our government-thing can say whatever it wants and we should not be limiting our expectations of our civil servants based on technicalities from another century; no pomp and circumstance and veneration of hallowed legal texts now is going to put Humpty Dumpty back together.
I enjoy dithering over technicalities but now is not the time; now doing so is just minutely aligning the deck chairs on the Titanic, like a British royal etiquette specialist laying out the flatware with a ruler for a state dinner with Trump where he's simply going to ask for a burnt steak with ketchup and sexually harass the Queen.
posted by XMLicious at 6:30 PM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
He lied to congresspeople about the preparations, let his officers get overwhelmed, and left Congress scrambling to save their lives. I'd be very surprised if there was no coordination between Sund and the MAGAhats or Trump.
This is honestly my greatest fear. One of the foundations of our society is that the elected civilian government makes the calls. I'm not worried about some magadipshits storming a building and cosplaying revolutionaries because, so long as the contingencies are followed and the people are saved, the US Capitol building could be burned to the ground for all I care. Power exists with the people, not the building.
If, on the other hand, the civilian government loses control over the police, I don't know what we'll do. It seems like some police forces are just itching for an excuse to pull the trigger and it's what keeps me up at night. Mayors and councils left powerless in the face of what basically is an occupying force.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 6:31 PM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
This is honestly my greatest fear. One of the foundations of our society is that the elected civilian government makes the calls. I'm not worried about some magadipshits storming a building and cosplaying revolutionaries because, so long as the contingencies are followed and the people are saved, the US Capitol building could be burned to the ground for all I care. Power exists with the people, not the building.
If, on the other hand, the civilian government loses control over the police, I don't know what we'll do. It seems like some police forces are just itching for an excuse to pull the trigger and it's what keeps me up at night. Mayors and councils left powerless in the face of what basically is an occupying force.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 6:31 PM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
Illinois politics blogs are calling her "Heil Mary."
"I hate Illinois Nazis"
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:34 PM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
"I hate Illinois Nazis"
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:34 PM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
Also, the sergeant at arms was likely in on the coup:
That linked article says absolutely nothing about any possible knowledge or evidence about the sergeant at arms being in on anything. Speculate all you want, but I think it does a disservice to your fellow MeFites who may be looking for information and informed opinion to editorialize like this when linking. Please do not do this.
I'd be very surprised if there was no coordination between Sund and the MAGAhats or Trump.
Maybe there was, maybe there wasn't. There should absolutely be a deep and thorough investigation.
But.
Partly what makes me wary about this kind of . . . well, conspiratorial speculation . . . is that, speaking as a middle aged white guy, it doesn't need to be a conspiracy.
When what you've got is a middle aged white guy looking at a bunch of mostly other middle aged white guys and women - the white bourgeoisie - saying they're all coming to a rally, the automatic kneejerk reaction is going to be "Eh. No Big Deal. Sure, they might get a little rowdy, but millions of them get a little rowdy every Sunday at NFL games, and nobody dies or anything. Those aren't the kind of people who riot, because they're just like ME, and I wouldn't riot. It's those Other People who get all worked up and break shit. No need to put on a ton of extra security."
IOW, we can get this kind of result from systemic racists being casually systemically racist, no plotting or collaboration needed.
At least at the higher levels, the people doing the planning and prep work. On the ground . . . yeah, I'm more inclined to suspect that some of the officers on duty that day are at least sympathetic enough to the MAGAhats to have intentionally pulled back or let them in or directed them or etc.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:34 PM on January 9, 2021 [30 favorites]
That linked article says absolutely nothing about any possible knowledge or evidence about the sergeant at arms being in on anything. Speculate all you want, but I think it does a disservice to your fellow MeFites who may be looking for information and informed opinion to editorialize like this when linking. Please do not do this.
I'd be very surprised if there was no coordination between Sund and the MAGAhats or Trump.
Maybe there was, maybe there wasn't. There should absolutely be a deep and thorough investigation.
But.
Partly what makes me wary about this kind of . . . well, conspiratorial speculation . . . is that, speaking as a middle aged white guy, it doesn't need to be a conspiracy.
When what you've got is a middle aged white guy looking at a bunch of mostly other middle aged white guys and women - the white bourgeoisie - saying they're all coming to a rally, the automatic kneejerk reaction is going to be "Eh. No Big Deal. Sure, they might get a little rowdy, but millions of them get a little rowdy every Sunday at NFL games, and nobody dies or anything. Those aren't the kind of people who riot, because they're just like ME, and I wouldn't riot. It's those Other People who get all worked up and break shit. No need to put on a ton of extra security."
IOW, we can get this kind of result from systemic racists being casually systemically racist, no plotting or collaboration needed.
At least at the higher levels, the people doing the planning and prep work. On the ground . . . yeah, I'm more inclined to suspect that some of the officers on duty that day are at least sympathetic enough to the MAGAhats to have intentionally pulled back or let them in or directed them or etc.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:34 PM on January 9, 2021 [30 favorites]
Chuck Tingle is on the ball as always: Pounded in the Butt by the Handsome Physical Mamifestation of Tromp’s Twitter Ban That Should’ve Come Sooner but Fine Now That it’s Here High Five.
posted by ActionPopulated at 6:35 PM on January 9, 2021 [48 favorites]
posted by ActionPopulated at 6:35 PM on January 9, 2021 [48 favorites]
This may also mean that if Parler successfully moves to a new host, the Parler app will be incompatible, and therefore permanently incapacitated.
I work in the industry and have no reason to think this is the case if they move hosts. As long as they have the same domain name, which Amazon doesn't control, it's like moving but keeping your phone number. Everyone can still reach you without even knowing something's different.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 6:36 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
I work in the industry and have no reason to think this is the case if they move hosts. As long as they have the same domain name, which Amazon doesn't control, it's like moving but keeping your phone number. Everyone can still reach you without even knowing something's different.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 6:36 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
So long as the app references the domain name, not a hardcoded IP, and the paths to various API endpoints don't change (and I see no reason why this would not be the case) the already-installed apps will just keep working. I want them shut down too but this is a social problem, so requires a social solution (shaming anyone who will accept their money).
posted by Alterscape at 6:40 PM on January 9, 2021
posted by Alterscape at 6:40 PM on January 9, 2021
Day 1 vs. Day 1,448
(Photo 1 + Photo 2)
We knew from the first it had to end, but not like this.
posted by cenoxo at 6:40 PM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
(Photo 1 + Photo 2)
We knew from the first it had to end, but not like this.
posted by cenoxo at 6:40 PM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1347991059616444421posted by sebastienbailard at 6:40 PM on January 9, 2021 [106 favorites]
Steve Vladeck @steve_vladeck
Please pass this Parler message along to any insurrectionists you may know.WH Office of Pardon Attorney @WHPardonAttny 1 hour ago 889
We do not have a lot of time to act.
POTUS is strongly considering PARDONING all of the patriots who #stormthecapitol
BUT we need to get him the right information so he can do it in the next week and a half.
IF YOU WOULD LIKE A PARDON please respond below with just the following information
1. Your name
2. Your city
3. What crimes you think you need to be pardoned for and the briefest explanation of why you think you need the pardon (Eg: trespassing -entered the capitol; theft - stole art from the capitol; assault; etc. etc.)
The President needs this list by TUESDAY before the House can vote to impeach again.
Please share to anyone who may need it, we are trying to stay off the MSM so that the left does not learn of the President's plan.
Best, Rosalind
No question in my mind that the Capitol Police were complicit. Someone in one of these megathreads, a veteran, pointed out that if this were a military context, leadership would be fired immediately or forced to resign. Given that the police fancy themselves paramilitary, and given that Wednesday was a siege the likes of which Washington hasn't seen since the days of Dolley Madison, and given the Clyburn interview linked above about how they found his unmarked office (the location of which would be known to security)... Yes, bias and systemic racism, and also complicit.
posted by basalganglia at 6:41 PM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by basalganglia at 6:41 PM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
are each bound by oath, law and precedent to facilitate the entry into office of the incoming administration, and to do so wholeheartedly.
It’s important to read between the lines here. That, to me, says “we know you’re fucking slow walking it and stop it right the fuck now.”
posted by corb at 6:41 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
It’s important to read between the lines here. That, to me, says “we know you’re fucking slow walking it and stop it right the fuck now.”
posted by corb at 6:41 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Like I predicted, the 24-hour warning was purely Apple covering their own ass
Well like I said upthread, they only asked Parler for a plan, which could have even been a good-faith attempt to let them fix themselves and stay.
AP: Parler CEO John Matze complained on his site of being scapegoated. “Standards not applied to Twitter, Facebook or even Apple themselves, apply to Parler.” He said he “won’t cave to politically motivated companies and those authoritarians who hate free speech.”
That's not an acceptable plan.
posted by ctmf at 6:42 PM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Well like I said upthread, they only asked Parler for a plan, which could have even been a good-faith attempt to let them fix themselves and stay.
AP: Parler CEO John Matze complained on his site of being scapegoated. “Standards not applied to Twitter, Facebook or even Apple themselves, apply to Parler.” He said he “won’t cave to politically motivated companies and those authoritarians who hate free speech.”
That's not an acceptable plan.
posted by ctmf at 6:42 PM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Hopefully that pardon offer (if real) is an FBI honeypot.
posted by cenoxo at 6:44 PM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by cenoxo at 6:44 PM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
It must have been some wit trolling people on Parler.
Although with this administration, who knows?
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:46 PM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Although with this administration, who knows?
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:46 PM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
AP: Parler CEO John Matze complained on his site of being scapegoated. “Standards not applied to Twitter, Facebook or even Apple themselves, apply to Parler.” He said he “won’t cave to politically motivated companies and those authoritarians who hate free speech.”
Matze doesn't seem to be familiar with the rules of late stage capitalism. Twitter and Facebook can push back against Apple and they might have some effect on Apple's behavior. Apple will barely notice leaving Parler as roadkill.
posted by rdr at 6:51 PM on January 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
Matze doesn't seem to be familiar with the rules of late stage capitalism. Twitter and Facebook can push back against Apple and they might have some effect on Apple's behavior. Apple will barely notice leaving Parler as roadkill.
posted by rdr at 6:51 PM on January 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
If there’s a processing fee, the Poor Donald posted it under a code name.
posted by cenoxo at 6:53 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by cenoxo at 6:53 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
When what you've got is a middle aged white guy looking at a bunch of mostly other middle aged white guys and women - the white bourgeoisie - saying they're all coming to a rally, the automatic kneejerk reaction is going to be "Eh. No Big Deal. Sure, they might get a little rowdy, but millions of them get a little rowdy every Sunday at NFL games, and nobody dies or anything. Those aren't the kind of people who riot, because they're just like ME, and I wouldn't riot. It's those Other People who get all worked up and break shit. No need to put on a ton of extra security."
I totally agree that White Privilege contributed to the tepid response, and assumed the same, until it came out that Sund and others lied about the preparations to people who can hold them accountable, in easily verifiable ways (where were the SWAT teams...?)
It's possible that the head of the capitol police regularly bullshits congresspeople with a "yeah yeah you're secure, we got all the agencies" and then doesn't follow through with those agencies based on their whim. Lofgren seems very sharp and I trust her recounting of the conversation.
This is all speculation on my part and I should have worded the claim of Sund's involvment as such.
posted by benzenedream at 6:56 PM on January 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
I totally agree that White Privilege contributed to the tepid response, and assumed the same, until it came out that Sund and others lied about the preparations to people who can hold them accountable, in easily verifiable ways (where were the SWAT teams...?)
It's possible that the head of the capitol police regularly bullshits congresspeople with a "yeah yeah you're secure, we got all the agencies" and then doesn't follow through with those agencies based on their whim. Lofgren seems very sharp and I trust her recounting of the conversation.
This is all speculation on my part and I should have worded the claim of Sund's involvment as such.
posted by benzenedream at 6:56 PM on January 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
Maybe time for another plea that we try to keep this thread (and the next and the next, until Jan 20) focused on actual, verified news and information - with links, please! - and only then include our speculations and opinions thereof.
posted by PhineasGage at 7:02 PM on January 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
posted by PhineasGage at 7:02 PM on January 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
From Reuters: Pence plans to attend the inauguration
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 7:40 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 7:40 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
Pence plans to attend the inauguration
Actually kind of brave of him, considering there's a very real chance of more violence there, and the MAGA crowd hate him about as much as they hate Biden.
posted by nosewings at 7:50 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
Actually kind of brave of him, considering there's a very real chance of more violence there, and the MAGA crowd hate him about as much as they hate Biden.
posted by nosewings at 7:50 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
Trump in August: "Fuck you, TikTok"
TikTok yesterday: "No, sir. Fuck you."
posted by JackFlash at 7:51 PM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
TikTok yesterday: "No, sir. Fuck you."
posted by JackFlash at 7:51 PM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
Parler getting kicked off AWS is a hell of a killing blow for it.
They're not going to be able to spin up anywhere in time and make all the necessary changes, even if they can find the compute power for it.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 7:55 PM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
They're not going to be able to spin up anywhere in time and make all the necessary changes, even if they can find the compute power for it.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 7:55 PM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
Perhaps worth noting that Amazon's announced impending suspension of Parler (mentioned upthread) was preceded by agitation by Amazon employees, specifically Amazon Employees for Climate Justice.
posted by Not A Thing at 8:12 PM on January 9, 2021 [67 favorites]
posted by Not A Thing at 8:12 PM on January 9, 2021 [67 favorites]
Eh, Stormfront & the Chans/Kuns found homes. Its a setback but not necessarily fatal. Depending on their technical resources they may already be enacting resiliency plans to relocate. Still lets hope it stays down long enough for their client base to disperse or just get the message that they're unwanted/pariahs.
posted by phigmov at 8:15 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by phigmov at 8:15 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Trump may be banned from most social media but there is plenty of crazy to go around, like this completely batshit letter from the chairman of the Nye County (Nevada) Republican Party.
posted by PhineasGage at 8:22 PM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
posted by PhineasGage at 8:22 PM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
I just had a prolonged facebook chat with a relative on that very blog post. She's not very engaged in the nitty gritty of civics and didn't know what to believe. I think the most useful example I gave was this kind of thing is the modern propaganda equivalent of a chain letter.
posted by tclark at 8:27 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by tclark at 8:27 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Tumblr's ariaste brings us a recap of news and reactions to the events of the 6th. Audio needed for full appreciation.
Most of them I'd seen, but Nicholas Cage was new to me.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:33 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
Most of them I'd seen, but Nicholas Cage was new to me.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:33 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
I coulnd't help taking a quick glance at that website with the .win TLD. In the Parler thread I got a big laugh out of one upvoted strategy to get back at Amazon:
"Order all kinds of clothing items on Amazon Prime that can be returned. Then return them as wrong size so you don't pay return shipping. Order bulky, heavy items and then return them as defective so they don't charge you return shipping. Keep doing this until they ban your account."
Sticking it to the man, Prime style.
posted by glonous keming at 8:35 PM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
"Order all kinds of clothing items on Amazon Prime that can be returned. Then return them as wrong size so you don't pay return shipping. Order bulky, heavy items and then return them as defective so they don't charge you return shipping. Keep doing this until they ban your account."
Sticking it to the man, Prime style.
posted by glonous keming at 8:35 PM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
Trump may be banned from most social media but there is plenty of crazy to go around, like this completely batshit letter from the chairman of the Nye County (Nevada) Republican Party.
Remember the plot of Matrix:Revolutions, where Agent Smith was taking over all the sentient programs with the matrix? That's what is happening to the Republican Party right now. By 2022 if you want votes from anyone who considers themselves a Republican, you're going to need to look like you fully buy in to QAnon and the Stolen 2020 Election.
posted by dry white toast at 8:37 PM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
Remember the plot of Matrix:Revolutions, where Agent Smith was taking over all the sentient programs with the matrix? That's what is happening to the Republican Party right now. By 2022 if you want votes from anyone who considers themselves a Republican, you're going to need to look like you fully buy in to QAnon and the Stolen 2020 Election.
posted by dry white toast at 8:37 PM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
completely batshit letter from the chairman of the Nye County (Nevada) Republican Party
The GOP has completely lost itself in Trump's insane lies. It is breathtaking and scary. I imagine this must be what people felt like in early 1930s Germany.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:38 PM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
The GOP has completely lost itself in Trump's insane lies. It is breathtaking and scary. I imagine this must be what people felt like in early 1930s Germany.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:38 PM on January 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
Eh, Stormfront & the Chans/Kuns found homes.
true, but they were websites. I mean Parler is technically a website but its main engagement (correct me if I am wrong, please) is via apps. These apps can no longer be updated which means changing where they store their content is a thing they can't do. The apps are effectively killed by this, they were only un-updateable before. People who may not really use a lot of websites that much will have to learn to use websites. Parler can make a nice responsive website, but it's definitely making all their members learn some new stuff.
posted by jessamyn at 8:40 PM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
true, but they were websites. I mean Parler is technically a website but its main engagement (correct me if I am wrong, please) is via apps. These apps can no longer be updated which means changing where they store their content is a thing they can't do. The apps are effectively killed by this, they were only un-updateable before. People who may not really use a lot of websites that much will have to learn to use websites. Parler can make a nice responsive website, but it's definitely making all their members learn some new stuff.
posted by jessamyn at 8:40 PM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
Maybe time for another plea that we try to keep this thread (and the next and the next, until Jan 20) focused on actual, verified news and information - with links, please! - and only then include our speculations and opinions thereof.
Seconding. Please. I come here as I am unable to watch network news. ( I don't want to) I can't speak for others but honestly, I am scared and confused. For me dealing with mental health issues, citing means consistency of purpose and mutual caring which is important for me right now. A lot of you are seeing for others who, for one reason or the other, can't see to clearly right now. If we're a community we've got to care for each other the best ways we can.
For it is important that awake people be awake,
or a breaking line may discourage them back to sleep;
the signals we give — yes or no, or maybe —
should be clear: the darkness around us is deep.
posted by goalyeehah at 8:44 PM on January 9, 2021 [35 favorites]
Seconding. Please. I come here as I am unable to watch network news. ( I don't want to) I can't speak for others but honestly, I am scared and confused. For me dealing with mental health issues, citing means consistency of purpose and mutual caring which is important for me right now. A lot of you are seeing for others who, for one reason or the other, can't see to clearly right now. If we're a community we've got to care for each other the best ways we can.
For it is important that awake people be awake,
or a breaking line may discourage them back to sleep;
the signals we give — yes or no, or maybe —
should be clear: the darkness around us is deep.
posted by goalyeehah at 8:44 PM on January 9, 2021 [35 favorites]
sanity is a delicate and fragile thing
posted by brambleboy at 8:47 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by brambleboy at 8:47 PM on January 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
The GOP has completely lost itself in Trump's insane lies. It is breathtaking and scary. I imagine this must be what people felt like in early 1930s Germany.
In February will they just go full alt-reality? Like have their own separate inauguration for anti-president Trump in Avingnon-a-lago?
posted by leotrotsky at 9:03 PM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
In February will they just go full alt-reality? Like have their own separate inauguration for anti-president Trump in Avingnon-a-lago?
posted by leotrotsky at 9:03 PM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
I expect them to analyze the footage of the inauguration, look for differences from Trump's inauguration, and declare that Biden's was therefore fake and not valid and Trump is still president.
I also expect some breathtakingly bizarre Gematria analyses of the press releases about the event.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:10 PM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
I also expect some breathtakingly bizarre Gematria analyses of the press releases about the event.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:10 PM on January 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
"The GOP has completely lost itself in Trump's insane lies. It is breathtaking and scary. I imagine this must be what people felt like in early 1930s Germany."
"In February will they just go full alt-reality? Like have their own separate inauguration for anti-president Trump in Avingnon-a-lago?"
That would require planning and the current disruption of their main social media networks makes that a lot harder to do. Not impossible, but more difficult. :)
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 9:10 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
"In February will they just go full alt-reality? Like have their own separate inauguration for anti-president Trump in Avingnon-a-lago?"
That would require planning and the current disruption of their main social media networks makes that a lot harder to do. Not impossible, but more difficult. :)
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 9:10 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
I sincerely hope that deplatforming Parler is one of the things that disrupts what was potentially a much more violent coup on the 19th/20th. I expect some form of terrorism though.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 9:17 PM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 9:17 PM on January 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
Heather Caygle:
NEWS: Speaker Pelosi and top Dems held two hour call tonight weighing impeachment options.
TOP line: No decision made
BUT several Dems raised concerns about hampering Biden admin w/ Senate trial
If Pelosi, Clyburn et al. ultimately decide not to impeach...I have no words. It is a moral fucking imperative.
posted by Gadarene at 9:20 PM on January 9, 2021 [35 favorites]
NEWS: Speaker Pelosi and top Dems held two hour call tonight weighing impeachment options.
TOP line: No decision made
BUT several Dems raised concerns about hampering Biden admin w/ Senate trial
If Pelosi, Clyburn et al. ultimately decide not to impeach...I have no words. It is a moral fucking imperative.
posted by Gadarene at 9:20 PM on January 9, 2021 [35 favorites]
Love it, Nandini Jammi (ex Sleeping Giants) & Brianna Wu are trying to encourage Gitlabs to drop the Parler code-repo and/or license. Nothing like a thorough cleansing.
posted by phigmov at 9:28 PM on January 9, 2021 [39 favorites]
posted by phigmov at 9:28 PM on January 9, 2021 [39 favorites]
I feel like a lot of people are going to get away with "I thought I was just going to a sit in or something! The not-me minority ruined it for us all."
That's my suspicion too, unfortunately. Like Eric Munchel (zip tie guy #1), when they were tracking him down they found him being let in through an entrance door that USCP were *literally holding open*. That wouldn't save him if he was BLM or any left wing protestor, but he's white and right wing so they'll run right through that open door of deniability. It's not even a matter of how friendly the prosecutors will be, we've seen over the years that juries often do it too. Though at least there's the hope that a DC jury may be less friendly than some.
If there's any electronic trail of threats and plans, they may get treated more harshly, but Larry Brock (zip tie guy #2, retired AF Lt. Col) was identified and reported to the FBI over 48 hours ago and is giving interviews to the New Yorker yet hasn't been arrested yet. So I'm pretty sure his laptop and phone are already in a river somewhere. Some stuff will still be able to be tracked to him, but it makes it harder.
posted by tavella at 9:28 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
That's my suspicion too, unfortunately. Like Eric Munchel (zip tie guy #1), when they were tracking him down they found him being let in through an entrance door that USCP were *literally holding open*. That wouldn't save him if he was BLM or any left wing protestor, but he's white and right wing so they'll run right through that open door of deniability. It's not even a matter of how friendly the prosecutors will be, we've seen over the years that juries often do it too. Though at least there's the hope that a DC jury may be less friendly than some.
If there's any electronic trail of threats and plans, they may get treated more harshly, but Larry Brock (zip tie guy #2, retired AF Lt. Col) was identified and reported to the FBI over 48 hours ago and is giving interviews to the New Yorker yet hasn't been arrested yet. So I'm pretty sure his laptop and phone are already in a river somewhere. Some stuff will still be able to be tracked to him, but it makes it harder.
posted by tavella at 9:28 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Can't pardon yourself from street justice. Part of the reason the legal system exists is so people don't feel like they have to enact their own justice.
Luckily for him, most of the violent types are on his side. But I wonder if he'll lie awake at night wondering when any of the mob people he owes money to, or any of the hundreds of millions he's wronged are going to come looking for him. Might be safer in jail as king of a prison gang.
posted by ctmf at 9:33 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Luckily for him, most of the violent types are on his side. But I wonder if he'll lie awake at night wondering when any of the mob people he owes money to, or any of the hundreds of millions he's wronged are going to come looking for him. Might be safer in jail as king of a prison gang.
posted by ctmf at 9:33 PM on January 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Except every player in this story is pretending to be something they're not. John Sullivan's involvement with the BLM protest communities requires paragraphs to lay out...
It just takes too much effort, too much context, to dissect and expose the lies;
In America, if you're explaining, you're losing.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:41 PM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
It just takes too much effort, too much context, to dissect and expose the lies;
In America, if you're explaining, you're losing.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:41 PM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
Does anyone have any assuring news to share right now?
Very terrified of the next 10 days.
posted by ichomp at 9:47 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Very terrified of the next 10 days.
posted by ichomp at 9:47 PM on January 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
assuring news: i tried to explain what a flash-bang is to a 5-year-old and failed.
posted by 20 year lurk at 9:49 PM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by 20 year lurk at 9:49 PM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
ichomp, I do.
Coworker of mine was watching Fox because she didn't understand what was up with Parler and all of that, and apparently the CEO's wife was on there and she said, "We're toast if Amazon drops us,"
This was as Amazon announced it was deplatforming Parler.
Parler being completely deplatformed means there will be a disconnect between the MAGA-facebook types who were just clowning around, wanted to show loyalty to Dear Leader, and those full bore white supremacists who hide in the middle of that crowd for cover. Let's hope that disconnect makes planning something big and terrorist-y harder for the 19th/20th
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 9:51 PM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
Coworker of mine was watching Fox because she didn't understand what was up with Parler and all of that, and apparently the CEO's wife was on there and she said, "We're toast if Amazon drops us,"
This was as Amazon announced it was deplatforming Parler.
Parler being completely deplatformed means there will be a disconnect between the MAGA-facebook types who were just clowning around, wanted to show loyalty to Dear Leader, and those full bore white supremacists who hide in the middle of that crowd for cover. Let's hope that disconnect makes planning something big and terrorist-y harder for the 19th/20th
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 9:51 PM on January 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
One of the foundations of our society is that the elected civilian government makes the calls.
I hate the FTFY thing, so it's with the greatest affection and respect that I overtly re-write,
† Raven Rock: The Story of the U.S. Government's Secret Plan to Save Itself—While the Rest of Us Die by Garrett Graff; see also the television documentary series released last month based on it (US-cable-provider-locked unfortunately, cw: clips of 9/11 attacks)One of the foundations of our society is thatthe elected civilian government₊the former Halliburton CEO with a severe cardiac condition who has obtained an ostensibly title-only position by nominating himself when asked to form a Vice Presidential Candidate Selection Committee takes over during national emergencies, when George W. Bush doesn't feel like picking up the phone from Vladimir Putin and has Condi Rice do it instead, and/₊ makes the ₊tough/₊ calls ₊like using the literal-actual-DEFCON-3 Continuity of Government resources intended to ensure reliability of federal operations in case of a nuclear war to bring his daughter back from her scuba diving vacation in Bonaire, in the Leeward Antilles in the Caribbean, while all civilian airspace is closed.†/₊
All the multi-billion/trillion-dollar measures for securing Washington, D.C. went just as badly on 9/11 as they did on Wednesday; yet another reason why it's kind of baffling how widespread the surprise has been.
For example, evidently in 2001 in the hardened enclave beneath the White House the stereo system only had a single channel, so it wasn't possible to hold a conference call and for a (lucky-to-be-among-the-chosen-few) staffer to simultaneously monitor what was happening on television. See also Rudy's Bunker, the 13 million dollar emergency command center for New York City... constructed in the World Trade Center, while the fire departments didn't all have working radio systems.
From the television documentary linked to above:
E pluribus unum, but what a unum.The truly demoralizing truth is that the massive Continuity of Government project, which redistributed incredible amounts of wealth away from social projects like education and health care and infrastructure and the betterment of lives of American citizens, is it created this hulking rusting infrastructure that never actually worked at any moment. It was completely incompetent and unnecessary.—interview with author Jared Yates Sexton
posted by XMLicious at 9:52 PM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
Self-pardon is a short and certain road to full on tyranny and violence of the worst possible kind.
Any society that allows it cannot expect to survive long, and doesn't deserve to.
The presidential pardon power should be revoked completely. It is just waaaay to open to abuse, even without the possibility of self-pardon.
posted by Pouteria at 9:56 PM on January 9, 2021 [21 favorites]
Any society that allows it cannot expect to survive long, and doesn't deserve to.
The presidential pardon power should be revoked completely. It is just waaaay to open to abuse, even without the possibility of self-pardon.
posted by Pouteria at 9:56 PM on January 9, 2021 [21 favorites]
"The presidential pardon power should be revoked completely. It is just waaaay to open to abuse, even without the possibility of self-pardon."
Henceforth the Presidential Pardon shall be limited to the Thanksgiving Day Turkey.
Seriously though, they should have gotten rid of it the moment Ford suggested pardoning Nixon. Probably earlier but I don't know the history of Presidential pardons.
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 10:01 PM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
Henceforth the Presidential Pardon shall be limited to the Thanksgiving Day Turkey.
Seriously though, they should have gotten rid of it the moment Ford suggested pardoning Nixon. Probably earlier but I don't know the history of Presidential pardons.
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 10:01 PM on January 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
At the very least have it expire during a lame duck period.
posted by Marticus at 10:02 PM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
posted by Marticus at 10:02 PM on January 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
Oakland vows to 'root out' cops who endorse violent takeover
posted by benzenedream at 10:02 PM on January 9, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 10:02 PM on January 9, 2021 [18 favorites]
I do think there might be enough Justices with sufficient foresight and self-preservation to realize that allowing self-pardon means that a president can have some or all of them all killed and then pardon the killers and himself. And that the ongoing decay of the American system makes that no longer a possibility confined to thrillers. I'm not certain of it, of course.
posted by tavella at 10:04 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by tavella at 10:04 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
According to a video by Igor Bobic of the rioters and notes from a WaPo reporter inside the chamber, a single Black USCP officer led the mob away from the unsealed Senate door just in time.
He appears to intend to block the hallway but sees the door is unsecured, pushes the lead rioter to anger him and induces the mob to chase away from the unsecured door and toward USCP backup. The video is from 2:14pm and the Senate chamber door was sealed at 2:15.
posted by shesdeadimalive at 10:08 PM on January 9, 2021 [163 favorites]
He appears to intend to block the hallway but sees the door is unsecured, pushes the lead rioter to anger him and induces the mob to chase away from the unsecured door and toward USCP backup. The video is from 2:14pm and the Senate chamber door was sealed at 2:15.
posted by shesdeadimalive at 10:08 PM on January 9, 2021 [163 favorites]
That dude is a fucking hero.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:18 PM on January 9, 2021 [68 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 10:18 PM on January 9, 2021 [68 favorites]
Ok. Now I'm tearing up.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:18 PM on January 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:18 PM on January 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
The presidential pardon power should be revoked completely.
Amen. Seriously... we can just SAY “presidents cannot pardon themselves” whenever we want, even retroactively after the 21st; the whole point of the Trumpocalypse, from Trump's perspective, was for there to be no rules, and he got what he wanted. Tabula rasa.
Different time scale now that we've crossed the streams—logarithmic anti-Scaramuccis—but we are to the United States of America as the Holy Roman Empire or the Sultanate of Rûm was to the SPQR.
Maybe this is the assuring news ichomp is looking for: we are the founding generations, anew. We can make what we will among the ruins.
It's hardly going to be all fun and games but if we seize the day we can right so many wrongs and make so many good things.
There are all sorts of complicated ways in which we need to be careful, but we can handle it. We just have to stop seeing ourselves as a failed version of what twentieth-century America, or aughts or 2010s America, thought twenty-first-century America was going to be like, instead look at what is, and move forward.
posted by XMLicious at 10:22 PM on January 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
Agreed, but we will have to fight for every inch. The RNC appears to be currently completely on board with Trump's actions.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/01/07/nation/rnc-greets-trump-with-enthusiasm-day-after-he-ignited-capitol-riot/
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:41 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
RNC greets Trump with enthusiasm day after he ignited Capitol riot(-washington post live blog)
Updated January 7, 2021, 6:57 p.m.
President Trump briefly called in to the Republican National Committee’s winter meeting Thursday morning — and received a loud and overwhelmingly enthusiastic reception when RNC Chair Ronna McDaniel put him on speakerphone, according to people in the room.
“We love you!” some in the room yelled.
Addressing RNC members by phone as they held a private, members-only breakfast at the Ritz-Carlton on Amelia Island in Florida, Trump said he had heard that the news media had falsely reported he would not be speaking. He told the RNC members he wanted to speak, was sorry to miss the event, and looked forward to seeing them in person.
Trump made no mention of Wednesday’s violence at the US Capitol, according to the people present, who were not authorized to speak publicly about the president’s remarks. Trump had originally intended to deliver a longer speech but was not scheduled to address the event Thursday night.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/01/07/nation/rnc-greets-trump-with-enthusiasm-day-after-he-ignited-capitol-riot/
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:41 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
Let's hope that disconnect makes planning something big and terrorist-y harder for the 19th/20th
The militias - who are the ones you're really worried about if you're worrying about inauguration attacks - don't need Parler to communicate with each other. Remember, there were two distinct groups who invaded the Capitol - the first and larger group were just dumb assholes caught up in the moment who just wandered around breaking and stealing things and taking selfies, and the second smaller group were the guys with zipcuffs and weapons and pipe bombs who were clearly planning to kill people. That second smaller group is who you're worried about, and Parler being down doesn't really stop them - they've got Facebook groups (many of which have not been banned) and web forums and email lists.
posted by mightygodking at 10:49 PM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
The militias - who are the ones you're really worried about if you're worrying about inauguration attacks - don't need Parler to communicate with each other. Remember, there were two distinct groups who invaded the Capitol - the first and larger group were just dumb assholes caught up in the moment who just wandered around breaking and stealing things and taking selfies, and the second smaller group were the guys with zipcuffs and weapons and pipe bombs who were clearly planning to kill people. That second smaller group is who you're worried about, and Parler being down doesn't really stop them - they've got Facebook groups (many of which have not been banned) and web forums and email lists.
posted by mightygodking at 10:49 PM on January 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
"they should have gotten rid of it the moment Ford suggested pardoning Nixon. Probably earlier..."
As a question, good. earlier, Nixon was the one hounding Ford with circumlocution from the ole' guys. Besides, Ford being president didn't mean the nightmare of a trial would end in anything but stagnation and grand standing. (never mind the truth) I think at one point Rumsfeld got tired of it. But on Day 22 of his presidency, Ford sat with Becker to discuss what a pardon is, all the relevant questions, a discussion never to have taken place before, even then he had not made up his mind to pardon such crimes. But the answer lied in United States v. Burdick. In short, a pardon is an act of grace as did Justice Marshall say in 1833.
One power of pardon is in civil strife, if one side is held and tried, the president can pardon them, then send in troops as a causus belli. Crazy, right? Is it a blanket forgiveness for crimes? Alexander Hamilton wrote that in times of insurrection and rebellion, those rebels could be forgave to preserve the Commonwealth. Ford did the same to end Watergate and shut the door on Vietnam and it worked. Remember, President Carter pardoned the gunmen who attacked Congress in 1954, wounding 4 members and the people who evaded the draft. Not popular but just.
So the real question on pardon which perhaps is not, since he can't give himself a pardon nor will Biden give (sorry to project that notion from The Elect) would a pardon of trump be seen as an act of grace 2 or 20 years from now.
cricket's and double crickets.
Its like an episode of 'The Office' and someone is moved into the spoon room.
But I can't see the big board.
"Yyeeaahh, bout that."
posted by clavdivs at 11:06 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
As a question, good. earlier, Nixon was the one hounding Ford with circumlocution from the ole' guys. Besides, Ford being president didn't mean the nightmare of a trial would end in anything but stagnation and grand standing. (never mind the truth) I think at one point Rumsfeld got tired of it. But on Day 22 of his presidency, Ford sat with Becker to discuss what a pardon is, all the relevant questions, a discussion never to have taken place before, even then he had not made up his mind to pardon such crimes. But the answer lied in United States v. Burdick. In short, a pardon is an act of grace as did Justice Marshall say in 1833.
One power of pardon is in civil strife, if one side is held and tried, the president can pardon them, then send in troops as a causus belli. Crazy, right? Is it a blanket forgiveness for crimes? Alexander Hamilton wrote that in times of insurrection and rebellion, those rebels could be forgave to preserve the Commonwealth. Ford did the same to end Watergate and shut the door on Vietnam and it worked. Remember, President Carter pardoned the gunmen who attacked Congress in 1954, wounding 4 members and the people who evaded the draft. Not popular but just.
So the real question on pardon which perhaps is not, since he can't give himself a pardon nor will Biden give (sorry to project that notion from The Elect) would a pardon of trump be seen as an act of grace 2 or 20 years from now.
cricket's and double crickets.
Its like an episode of 'The Office' and someone is moved into the spoon room.
But I can't see the big board.
"Yyeeaahh, bout that."
posted by clavdivs at 11:06 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Forbes.com: A Truth Reckoning: Why We’re Holding Those Who Lied For Trump Accountable
As American democracy rebounds, we need to return to a standard of truth when it comes to how the government communicates with the governed. The easiest way to do that, from where I sit, is to create repercussions for those who don’t follow the civic norms. Trump’s lawyers lie gleefully to the press and public, but those lies, magically, almost never made it into briefs and arguments – contempt, perjury and disbarment keep the professional standards high.posted by darkstar at 11:11 PM on January 9, 2021 [29 favorites]
So what’s the parallel in the dark arts of communication? Simple: Don’t let the chronic liars cash in on their dishonesty. Press secretaries like Joe Lockhart, Ari Fleischer and Jay Carney, who left the White House with their reputations in various stages of intact, made millions taking their skills — and credibility — to corporate America. Trump’s liars don’t merit that same golden parachute.
Let it be known to the business world: Hire any of Trump’s fellow fabulists above, and Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie. We’re going to scrutinize, double-check, investigate with the same skepticism we’d approach a Trump tweet. Want to ensure the world’s biggest business media brand approaches you as a potential funnel of disinformation? Then hire away.
(Too bad that Forbes’ Chief Content Officer gives liars like Ari Fleischer props for “credibility”. But it is notable that they view Trump’s cadre as so much worse than that lying dirtbag.)
posted by darkstar at 11:16 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 11:16 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
That second smaller group is who you're worried about, and Parler being down doesn't really stop them - they've got Facebook groups (many of which have not been banned) and web forums and email lists.
That’s true. But the hard-core militants and would-be murderers rely on the other, larger group of alt-right Q cultists and assorted idiots being there, so they can hide in their numbers and try to maintain the plausible deniability that they are just protesters, rather than militant insurrectionists. De-platforming the filthy casuals strips the hard-core militants of their cover and undermines the deception that militant violence is supported by a broader movement.
posted by darkstar at 11:25 PM on January 9, 2021 [38 favorites]
That’s true. But the hard-core militants and would-be murderers rely on the other, larger group of alt-right Q cultists and assorted idiots being there, so they can hide in their numbers and try to maintain the plausible deniability that they are just protesters, rather than militant insurrectionists. De-platforming the filthy casuals strips the hard-core militants of their cover and undermines the deception that militant violence is supported by a broader movement.
posted by darkstar at 11:25 PM on January 9, 2021 [38 favorites]
The militias - who are the ones you're really worried about if you're worrying about inauguration attacks - don't need Parler to communicate with each other.yeah, whenever you see a large antifa infodump it's often from a Discord type service that allows people to make completely private invite-only groups out of the public eye. more public services serve as feeder pipelines and propaganda distributors. so the immediate ability to conduct mayhem will not be compromised, but the ability to radicalize new people may be.
posted by Sauce Trough at 11:35 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
At the very least have it expire during a lame duck period.
posted by Marticus
Seriously... we can just SAY “presidents cannot pardon themselves” whenever we want,...
posted by XMLicious
Another option is to remove the pardon power entirely from the president and give it to an independent body, who must publish full reasons for granting or denying them.
Pardons per se are not so much the problem, as who grants them and the lack of transparency.
--------------
I do think there might be enough Justices with sufficient foresight and self-preservation to realize that allowing self-pardon means that a president can have some or all of them all killed and then pardon the killers and himself.
posted by tavella
You'd think and hope so.
--------------
De-platforming the filthy casuals strips the hard-core militants of their cover and undermines the deception that militant violence is supported by a broader movement.
posted by darkstar
Reducing the signal-noise ratio would help a lot.
posted by Pouteria at 11:36 PM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Marticus
Seriously... we can just SAY “presidents cannot pardon themselves” whenever we want,...
posted by XMLicious
Another option is to remove the pardon power entirely from the president and give it to an independent body, who must publish full reasons for granting or denying them.
Pardons per se are not so much the problem, as who grants them and the lack of transparency.
--------------
I do think there might be enough Justices with sufficient foresight and self-preservation to realize that allowing self-pardon means that a president can have some or all of them all killed and then pardon the killers and himself.
posted by tavella
You'd think and hope so.
--------------
De-platforming the filthy casuals strips the hard-core militants of their cover and undermines the deception that militant violence is supported by a broader movement.
posted by darkstar
Reducing the signal-noise ratio would help a lot.
posted by Pouteria at 11:36 PM on January 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
And holy cats, but that letter linked above, from the Republican Central Committee Chairman of Nye County, Nevada is totally koo-koo bananas!
posted by darkstar at 11:37 PM on January 9, 2021 [26 favorites]
So, what comes next? I don’t have the particulars but I can give you milestones to watch for as the coming days unfold:High. On his own. Supply.
1. Expect the emergency broadcast system to be activated. The FCC just recently released a memorandum speaking to the requirements under Federal law to send messages from the president to the public. See this link
2. Expect confusion. We are in a battle for our republic against elites that are attempting the very coup that they are accusing Trump of doing. In battle, there will be disinformation but know that plans are being fulfilled.
3. Expect high profile arrests to take place over the next 12 days and at any time. You may wake one morning to find someone in high office is no longer there.
4. Expect this to be a bumpy ride to the very end. This is not a television show where things are resolved in 45 minutes.
5. Expect more bombshell evidence to be released between now and Jan. 20th.
6. Expect some sort of internet blackout or outage: Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and Gmail are likely going to be affected. If you don’t have alternate forms of communication established now, it would be a good idea to start forming them even if it’s just checking on your nextdoor neighbors.
7. Expect Trump to be inaugurated on Jan 20th!
8. Expect the executive order from 2018 and/or the Insurrection Act to be enacted. This DOES NOT mean martial law. Remember that we have been under a state of emergency since 2018 which gives the president many powers to act.
... As the days unfold, let’s maintain communications among ourselves and try to help our neighbor to understand what is happening. Turn off the television as they have demonstrated they are clearly only falsifying the media to maintain control over your thinking. Do not despair but pray for our country, for Trump and his supporters, and for a national repentance to be stirred nationwide.
The next 12 days will be something to tell the grandchildren! It’s 1776 all over again!
posted by darkstar at 11:37 PM on January 9, 2021 [26 favorites]
The next 12 days will be something to tell the grandchildren!
Well, that much is true.
posted by Pouteria at 11:41 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
Well, that much is true.
posted by Pouteria at 11:41 PM on January 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
U.S. taxpayers to pay Capitol siege tab as government shuns insurance (Reuters, Jan. 7, 2021) Taxpayers will pay for damages because federal agencies rarely carry insurance, industry and policy sources said. “Taxpayers will be on the hook for repairs to the Capitol,” said Stephen Ellis, president of Taxpayers for Common Sense, a U.S. budget watchdog group. [...] In terms of repair and cleanup expenses, the federal government has long considered insurance not worth the expense.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:41 PM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:41 PM on January 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
CNN"s Jake Tapper tweeted today: The big tell is the WH flag is not at half staff in memory of Capitol Police Officer Sicknick.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:41 PM on January 9, 2021 [28 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:41 PM on January 9, 2021 [28 favorites]
from the Forbes article:
posted by Sauce Trough at 11:45 PM on January 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
Let it be known to the business world: Hire any of Trump’s fellow fabulists above, and Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie. We’re going to scrutinize, double-check, investigate with the same skepticism we’d approach a Trump tweet. Want to ensure the world’s biggest business media brand approaches you as a potential funnel of disinformation? Then hire away.... This isn’t cancel culture, which is a societal blight.thank you Forbes, but fuck you. Making a list of bad people and working your socials to keep them away from places where they can do harm is 100% cancel culture. Don't pretend that the purity of your capitalist hearts makes it somehow something else.
posted by Sauce Trough at 11:45 PM on January 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
Reducing the signal-noise ratio would help a lot.
Er, that would be increasing the ratio.
posted by Pouteria at 11:45 PM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Er, that would be increasing the ratio.
posted by Pouteria at 11:45 PM on January 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
High. On his own. Supply.
Also, welcome to Dominion's defendant list.
posted by ctmf at 11:46 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Also, welcome to Dominion's defendant list.
posted by ctmf at 11:46 PM on January 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
I'm not sure it would make any sense for the government to have insurance. Be just as easy to have an account for that, and simulate insurance by putting some money in it every year. It's not like the government is going to be bankrupted if the rare cost exceeds the account balance like a family or a business would. Why involve third-party profiteering?
posted by ctmf at 11:52 PM on January 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 11:52 PM on January 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
(just to clarify, not calling out Forbes or anyone for being a cancel warrior. It's just that stanky "we're doing this thing that the people we don't like do but we'll call it something else because we're not those people we don't like you know" tone that can fuck off.)
posted by Sauce Trough at 11:54 PM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by Sauce Trough at 11:54 PM on January 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
I suppose it was inevitable that a return of the megathread would entail a return of Meredith. Via NYT:
Man With Assault Rifle Charged With Threatening Pelosi, Officials Sayposted by p3t3 at 12:11 AM on January 10, 2021 [11 favorites]
"..he traveled to Washington for the pro-Trump rally on Wednesday and sent a text message saying he would put “a bullet in her noggin on Live TV,” the federal authorities said.
Federal agents said the man, Cleveland Grover Meredith Jr., had been staying at a Holiday Inn in Washington and had weapons in his camper-style trailer, including a Glock handgun, a pistol, a Tavor X95 assault rifle and hundreds of rounds of ammunition.
The Republican party, putting people in a trance since 1980.
Pompeo stays in Trump's corner as some Republicans distance themselves (NBC, Jan. 9, 2021) The secretary of state, who is thought to have political ambitions of his own, defended the president from his personal Twitter account on Saturday.
Rep. Peter Meijer (R–Mich.), the Republican successor to the retiring Libertarian Justin Amash, was sworn in last Sunday; Meijer gave an interview to Reason ("nation's leading libertarian magazine") Friday about the attack. Excerpt: ... I had colleagues who, when it came time to recognize reality and vote to certify Arizona and Pennsylvania in the Electoral College, they knew in their heart of hearts that they should've voted to certify, but some had legitimate concerns about the safety of their families. They felt that that vote would put their families in danger.
The Maricopa County, AZ Republican Committee voted to censure Cindy McCain on Saturday, the Arizona Republic reported, citing her support for “leftist causes" like gay marriage, larger government and “others that run counter to Republican values." (The Hill, Jan. 9, 2021) The committee also said she “failed” to support conservative candidates and has “supported globalist policies and candidates," including Democrats such as President-elect Joe Biden, the newspaper reported. The resolution passed by a 4-1 margin among 1,400 attendees, according to local NBC affiliate 12 News. The Arizona Republican Party said on Twitter that it will vote on a similar resolution when it meets on Jan. 23
Cindy McCain's Twitter response, also Jan. 9: I am a proud lifelong Republican and will continue to support candidates who put country over party and stand for the rule of law.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:20 AM on January 10, 2021 [16 favorites]
Pompeo stays in Trump's corner as some Republicans distance themselves (NBC, Jan. 9, 2021) The secretary of state, who is thought to have political ambitions of his own, defended the president from his personal Twitter account on Saturday.
Rep. Peter Meijer (R–Mich.), the Republican successor to the retiring Libertarian Justin Amash, was sworn in last Sunday; Meijer gave an interview to Reason ("nation's leading libertarian magazine") Friday about the attack. Excerpt: ... I had colleagues who, when it came time to recognize reality and vote to certify Arizona and Pennsylvania in the Electoral College, they knew in their heart of hearts that they should've voted to certify, but some had legitimate concerns about the safety of their families. They felt that that vote would put their families in danger.
The Maricopa County, AZ Republican Committee voted to censure Cindy McCain on Saturday, the Arizona Republic reported, citing her support for “leftist causes" like gay marriage, larger government and “others that run counter to Republican values." (The Hill, Jan. 9, 2021) The committee also said she “failed” to support conservative candidates and has “supported globalist policies and candidates," including Democrats such as President-elect Joe Biden, the newspaper reported. The resolution passed by a 4-1 margin among 1,400 attendees, according to local NBC affiliate 12 News. The Arizona Republican Party said on Twitter that it will vote on a similar resolution when it meets on Jan. 23
Cindy McCain's Twitter response, also Jan. 9: I am a proud lifelong Republican and will continue to support candidates who put country over party and stand for the rule of law.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:20 AM on January 10, 2021 [16 favorites]
Ah, well, Cindy McCain will also want to stop supporting Pence, then, because he has explicitly stated that he’s a Republican before he’s an American.
posted by darkstar at 12:23 AM on January 10, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 12:23 AM on January 10, 2021 [6 favorites]
I don't like living in interesting times.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:26 AM on January 10, 2021 [76 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 12:26 AM on January 10, 2021 [76 favorites]
The financial cost isn't even rounding error.
I'm gravely concerned that we've lost our standing in our own eyes and those of our allies. And more than that, deliberately wounded our own integrity and civic values, while letting white supremacists score a propaganda win.
The RNC hasn't even blinked atthis coup attempt these shenanigans, is cheering him, rather. The tear gas hadn't cleared and Republican representatives and senators still saw fit to challenge the legitimacy of the election, claiming fraud and unspecifiable irregularities of the Electoral College.
In the same way earthquakes have foreshocks and aftershocks, we're going to see more violence, further coup attempts, more systematic lying, further claims of illegitimacy.
Maybe Romney will walk away. Certainly some rank-and-file Republican voters will be disgusted.
bedtime reading: American Exceptionalism Is Getting You Killed - America is exceptionally fucked - Indi Samarajiva - 1 day ago·7 min read
previously: I Lived Through A Stupid Coup. America Is Having One Now
You’ve already lost. This is what Americans need to understand
Indi Samarajiva - Nov 11, 2020
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:29 AM on January 10, 2021 [96 favorites]
I'm gravely concerned that we've lost our standing in our own eyes and those of our allies. And more than that, deliberately wounded our own integrity and civic values, while letting white supremacists score a propaganda win.
The RNC hasn't even blinked at
In the same way earthquakes have foreshocks and aftershocks, we're going to see more violence, further coup attempts, more systematic lying, further claims of illegitimacy.
Maybe Romney will walk away. Certainly some rank-and-file Republican voters will be disgusted.
bedtime reading: American Exceptionalism Is Getting You Killed - America is exceptionally fucked - Indi Samarajiva - 1 day ago·7 min read
...
The fact is that the central myth of America — that it is an old, strong, and prosperous democracy — is not true. None of it is true, but the fact that this has become a quasi-religious belief makes it impossible to fix anything without also melting American brains. People would rather die than believe that America sucks. So they’re dying.
Let me unwind these myths as gently as I can (not very gently).
American democracy was founded by black people just 55 years ago.
Your democracy is shit
American democracy is only 55 years old and it was founded by black people. Modern democracy is one person, one vote, and America only got universal franchise in 1965, after 56 other countries. American democracy isn’t old at all, it’s very young, which explains a lot. The fact that your founders are black people like Rosa Parks and John Lewis, of course, completely short-circuits many American brains.
American democracy is also not very good, built as it is on a centuries old voter suppression system. Literally nobody else waits for hours to vote. In most countries the popular vote winner wins. Nobody waits for two months to seat the President. Your democracy is honestly quite shit, as you may have noticed, because it’s on fire.
...
previously: I Lived Through A Stupid Coup. America Is Having One Now
You’ve already lost. This is what Americans need to understand
Indi Samarajiva - Nov 11, 2020
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:29 AM on January 10, 2021 [96 favorites]
for those seeking moral clarity in these confusing times, I give you Kellyanne Conway
(warning: collllooossssalll chutzpah)
posted by Sauce Trough at 12:46 AM on January 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
(warning: collllooossssalll chutzpah)
posted by Sauce Trough at 12:46 AM on January 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
I've been linking people to the Stupid Coup piece since November, and it's become only more relevant.
posted by tavella at 12:46 AM on January 10, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by tavella at 12:46 AM on January 10, 2021 [7 favorites]
I don't like living in interesting times.
posted by kirkaracha
I have lived interesting and boring times. I will take boring every time, because you get to choose how to relieve the boredom.
posted by Pouteria at 12:53 AM on January 10, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha
I have lived interesting and boring times. I will take boring every time, because you get to choose how to relieve the boredom.
posted by Pouteria at 12:53 AM on January 10, 2021 [18 favorites]
> Does anyone have any assuring news to share right now?
Unless it's a head fake, it looks like Miller is committed to the peaceful transition of power to Biden.
https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Releases/Release/Article/2465382/statement-by-acting-secretary-of-defense-christopher-miller-on-yesterdays-viole/
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:56 AM on January 10, 2021 [15 favorites]
Unless it's a head fake, it looks like Miller is committed to the peaceful transition of power to Biden.
https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Releases/Release/Article/2465382/statement-by-acting-secretary-of-defense-christopher-miller-on-yesterdays-viole/
Immediate ReleaseI had to go look for it, because I personally needed the reassurance.
Statement by Acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller on Yesterday’s Violence at the Capitol
Jan. 7, 2021
“Yesterday’s violence at the Capitol was reprehensible and contrary to the tenets of the United States Constitution. In the midst of this tragedy, I was proud of the professionalism of our Department of Defense personnel. I want to specifically recognize the service of the District of Columbia National Guard. They performed with honor, integrity, and alacrity to protect people and property from unlawful acts.
“Our Republic may have been disrupted yesterday, but the resolve of our legislators to conduct the people’s business did not waver. Due to their efforts, supported by local and federal law enforcement and the National Guard, the attempts of those who tried to stop our government from functioning failed.
“I strongly condemn these acts of violence against our democracy. I, and the people I lead in the Department of Defense, continue to perform our duties in accordance with our oath of office, and will execute the time-honored peaceful transition of power to President-elect Biden on January 20.”
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:56 AM on January 10, 2021 [15 favorites]
American Exceptionalism Is Getting You Killed - America is exceptionally fucked
Well, yes.
I mean, a number of other countries are well fucked, and I wouldn't say the UK is less fucked than the USA, but Trump's reign of terror has wiped away a lot of illusions. I remember at the start of the horror ride people were talking wisely about the Adults in the Room, the Deep State that would take care to ensure that no norms were broken. I should remember it, because I was one of them. We now know that there aren't any Adults, and if a Deep State exists it certainly doesn't care about things like democracy or even national security: it's probably just like the British Deep State, which is mostly concerned with wealth, social position, and dynastic continuity. I think it would be impossible to exaggerate the harm Trump's Party has done to the USA: both the immediate deaths and impoverishment; and also the accelerated decline which has done in four years that which might not have been done in forty. Exceptionally fucked, indeed.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:01 AM on January 10, 2021 [22 favorites]
Well, yes.
I mean, a number of other countries are well fucked, and I wouldn't say the UK is less fucked than the USA, but Trump's reign of terror has wiped away a lot of illusions. I remember at the start of the horror ride people were talking wisely about the Adults in the Room, the Deep State that would take care to ensure that no norms were broken. I should remember it, because I was one of them. We now know that there aren't any Adults, and if a Deep State exists it certainly doesn't care about things like democracy or even national security: it's probably just like the British Deep State, which is mostly concerned with wealth, social position, and dynastic continuity. I think it would be impossible to exaggerate the harm Trump's Party has done to the USA: both the immediate deaths and impoverishment; and also the accelerated decline which has done in four years that which might not have been done in forty. Exceptionally fucked, indeed.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:01 AM on January 10, 2021 [22 favorites]
Although what alarm bells would be ringing if Trump dismissed Miller as Defense Secretary on Monday? The only difference now is that he wouldn't be able to do it on Twitter.
posted by meowzilla at 1:06 AM on January 10, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by meowzilla at 1:06 AM on January 10, 2021 [3 favorites]
Unless it's a head fake, it looks like Miller is committed to the peaceful transition of power to Biden
Thank you for that, genuinely.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:23 AM on January 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
Thank you for that, genuinely.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:23 AM on January 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
Trump's going to be REALLY mad at Miller because he said the shibboleth. Even some of the most reasonable Republicans still have yet to publicly utter the phrase "President-elect Biden".
posted by mmoncur at 1:45 AM on January 10, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by mmoncur at 1:45 AM on January 10, 2021 [7 favorites]
cruising linkedin to look at the Parler employee listings .. don't know how much top-level software talent they have there to get them them through this.
if they're like any other startup then they are 150% busy just trying to keep the lights on, never mind having to switch the lights from electric to gas while their restless userbase is migrating to 1stamendment.kz.
posted by Sauce Trough at 1:45 AM on January 10, 2021 [8 favorites]
if they're like any other startup then they are 150% busy just trying to keep the lights on, never mind having to switch the lights from electric to gas while their restless userbase is migrating to 1stamendment.kz.
posted by Sauce Trough at 1:45 AM on January 10, 2021 [8 favorites]
Andrew Caballero-Reynolds's photo of the gallows (second pic) the terrorists (chanting "Hang Mike Pence") put up on Wednesday. (Snopes has a picture of a different noose, made of stolen camera cable.)
This Getty Images archive had photographs I hadn't seen in articles, like Congress staffers barricade themselves after Trump supporters stormed inside the US Capitol 1, 2; Congress staffer holds his hands up while Capitol Police Swat team check everyone in the room 1, 2; & Protesters demonstrate in front of Trump International Hotel & Tower in NYC Wednesday night, holding individual letter signs spelling out "TRUMP IS GUILTY".
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:50 AM on January 10, 2021 [26 favorites]
This Getty Images archive had photographs I hadn't seen in articles, like Congress staffers barricade themselves after Trump supporters stormed inside the US Capitol 1, 2; Congress staffer holds his hands up while Capitol Police Swat team check everyone in the room 1, 2; & Protesters demonstrate in front of Trump International Hotel & Tower in NYC Wednesday night, holding individual letter signs spelling out "TRUMP IS GUILTY".
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:50 AM on January 10, 2021 [26 favorites]
Your Republicans have set forces into play they cannot possibly understand and certainly cannot control. And they don’t even want to. To them, chaos is a ladder.
https://indica.medium.com/i-lived-through-a-coup-america-is-having-one-now-437934b1dac3
Until the leopards of chaos start eating their faces.
posted by Pouteria at 2:06 AM on January 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
https://indica.medium.com/i-lived-through-a-coup-america-is-having-one-now-437934b1dac3
Until the leopards of chaos start eating their faces.
posted by Pouteria at 2:06 AM on January 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
Could Visa, Mastercard, etc. decline to process payments at Trump properties?
posted by jointhedance at 2:19 AM on January 10, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by jointhedance at 2:19 AM on January 10, 2021 [17 favorites]
There's nothing more hilariously fitting for Mike Pence, a man who supported all of Trump's most viciously cruel decisions and willingly ate his shit for four full years in hopes of endearing himself to the Republican base for future political benefit, than for him to suddenly find in the last few weeks of his term as Vice President that he is now considered toxic by a huge chunk of that base for not debasing himself further.
*chef's kiss*
It's perfect.
posted by mediareport at 2:30 AM on January 10, 2021 [46 favorites]
*chef's kiss*
It's perfect.
posted by mediareport at 2:30 AM on January 10, 2021 [46 favorites]
Could Visa, Mastercard, etc. decline to process payments at Trump properties?
Or donations through his websites? Sorry, folks, cash or check only.
posted by jointhedance at 2:31 AM on January 10, 2021 [5 favorites]
Or donations through his websites? Sorry, folks, cash or check only.
posted by jointhedance at 2:31 AM on January 10, 2021 [5 favorites]
if they're like any other startup then they are 150% busy just trying to keep the lights on
May not be too big of a problem for them, they were apparently spending $300,000 a month on AWS [buzzfeed] and were being funded by the Mercers [theverge].
That does also set them apart from web sites like Stormfront that could probably be moved to a single dedicated server in a cupboard in St Petersburg without impacting service too much. For the amount of traffic and storage $300k is likely to represent then they're going to need a lot of serious hardware and load balancing. There's a good chance that they are at the point where any service that could handle it will be big enough that they have to ban them to keep the rest of their customer base.
posted by Buntix at 2:37 AM on January 10, 2021 [11 favorites]
May not be too big of a problem for them, they were apparently spending $300,000 a month on AWS [buzzfeed] and were being funded by the Mercers [theverge].
That does also set them apart from web sites like Stormfront that could probably be moved to a single dedicated server in a cupboard in St Petersburg without impacting service too much. For the amount of traffic and storage $300k is likely to represent then they're going to need a lot of serious hardware and load balancing. There's a good chance that they are at the point where any service that could handle it will be big enough that they have to ban them to keep the rest of their customer base.
posted by Buntix at 2:37 AM on January 10, 2021 [11 favorites]
A recap of some of the good news, for those who need some:
Biden and Harris won, and it’s official! Harris is the first woman to serve as Veep, and the first POC to serve in that role. She is already an inspiration to millions of Americans.
The Biden Administration will implement several positive laws and regulations, as well as overturning several bad ones. It will begin to stabilize our foreign policy, and re-establish our relationship with allies. Biden’s Cabinet will be composed of competent people who actually want government to work, replacing the corrupt, unethical, and/or incompetent assholes Trump had installed.
Ossoff and Warnock won their Senate races, tipping control of the Senate to the Democrats. McConnell will no longer be setting the agenda.
With Biden in the White House and Dems controlling the Senate, a lot of other appointments, including judges, can be made. Justice Breyer can now retire and be replaced by a Biden appointment, most likely to be Ketanji Brown Jackson, a solid liberal and the first Black woman on the high court, if she’s chosen.
The Trumpist Insurrection failed. And though it damaged our national psyche and a police officer was killed, the Representatives and Senators were spared. Dozens of Trumpists were arrested on the day of the insurrection, and several more are being tracked down and arrested in the coming days.
A lot of people have been shocked out of their complacency about the threat posed by the white supremacist alt-right. The insurrection will likely turn off a generation of moderates from identifying with Republicans, and will likely continue to exacerbate fault lines within the Republican party..
In twelve days, Trump will no longer be President. He will have lost the popular vote twice, and may well go down in history as the only President to have been impeached twice, as well. And he will NEVER AGAIN be able to post his lies and rabble-rousing demagoguery on Twitter or Facebook.
Twitter has just deleted thousands of Q cultist accounts. Reddit has banned the r/donaldtrump forum. Discord has banned the pro-Trump server “The Donald”. Twitch, Shopify, TikTok and others are more aggressive about deleting Trump propaganda.
Thanks to Google and Apple, the Parler app looks like it’s going to be defunct, depriving the alt-reality idiots of one of their major comms networks.
The Covid vaccine is completed and is being distributed. Millions have received it already, including most health care workers and nursing home residents. Probably by the end of Summer, we will all have had the opportunity to receive it.
Jacob Wohl will soon be going to prison. Martin Shkreli is still in prison. Neither are likely to receive a pardon.
And on a personal note, my stepmom recovered from Covid, I rekindled a couple of friendships that I’d let atrophy for a decade, and, after a lot of stressing over it, I was finally able to fix my car’s evap problem — at an unexpectedly negligible cost — and get it to pass emissions and registered for two more years with no problem.
Amid the storm and stress, there are still lots of reasons to feel better about the year ahead!
posted by darkstar at 2:39 AM on January 10, 2021 [167 favorites]
Biden and Harris won, and it’s official! Harris is the first woman to serve as Veep, and the first POC to serve in that role. She is already an inspiration to millions of Americans.
The Biden Administration will implement several positive laws and regulations, as well as overturning several bad ones. It will begin to stabilize our foreign policy, and re-establish our relationship with allies. Biden’s Cabinet will be composed of competent people who actually want government to work, replacing the corrupt, unethical, and/or incompetent assholes Trump had installed.
Ossoff and Warnock won their Senate races, tipping control of the Senate to the Democrats. McConnell will no longer be setting the agenda.
With Biden in the White House and Dems controlling the Senate, a lot of other appointments, including judges, can be made. Justice Breyer can now retire and be replaced by a Biden appointment, most likely to be Ketanji Brown Jackson, a solid liberal and the first Black woman on the high court, if she’s chosen.
The Trumpist Insurrection failed. And though it damaged our national psyche and a police officer was killed, the Representatives and Senators were spared. Dozens of Trumpists were arrested on the day of the insurrection, and several more are being tracked down and arrested in the coming days.
A lot of people have been shocked out of their complacency about the threat posed by the white supremacist alt-right. The insurrection will likely turn off a generation of moderates from identifying with Republicans, and will likely continue to exacerbate fault lines within the Republican party..
In twelve days, Trump will no longer be President. He will have lost the popular vote twice, and may well go down in history as the only President to have been impeached twice, as well. And he will NEVER AGAIN be able to post his lies and rabble-rousing demagoguery on Twitter or Facebook.
Twitter has just deleted thousands of Q cultist accounts. Reddit has banned the r/donaldtrump forum. Discord has banned the pro-Trump server “The Donald”. Twitch, Shopify, TikTok and others are more aggressive about deleting Trump propaganda.
Thanks to Google and Apple, the Parler app looks like it’s going to be defunct, depriving the alt-reality idiots of one of their major comms networks.
The Covid vaccine is completed and is being distributed. Millions have received it already, including most health care workers and nursing home residents. Probably by the end of Summer, we will all have had the opportunity to receive it.
Jacob Wohl will soon be going to prison. Martin Shkreli is still in prison. Neither are likely to receive a pardon.
And on a personal note, my stepmom recovered from Covid, I rekindled a couple of friendships that I’d let atrophy for a decade, and, after a lot of stressing over it, I was finally able to fix my car’s evap problem — at an unexpectedly negligible cost — and get it to pass emissions and registered for two more years with no problem.
Amid the storm and stress, there are still lots of reasons to feel better about the year ahead!
posted by darkstar at 2:39 AM on January 10, 2021 [167 favorites]
Is the dam starting to crack? Listen to the end (only a minute long):
https://twitter.com/i/status/1347627956508577792
posted by Pouteria at 3:04 AM on January 10, 2021 [10 favorites]
https://twitter.com/i/status/1347627956508577792
posted by Pouteria at 3:04 AM on January 10, 2021 [10 favorites]
Statement by Acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller on Yesterday’s Violence at the Capitol
Jan. 7, 2021
Miller is covering his behind, because the coup failed. He is also lying. It is well know that it took hours before the National Guard came in to support the Capitol Police, because the DoJ either ignored or denied the requests until frigging Pence called.
This is still good news, because it means he has realized the end is near for the Trumpists, and he doesn't want to go to jail. But he supported the violent Trumpist coup-attempt.
It was mentioned above that some Democrats are worried about impeachment because it may distract from Biden's agenda. Have they lost their minds? That is the way abused people talk, and I get it, but they need to look at the reality: Biden has at least two years to get out the vaccine and rebuild the economy. If he does it right, he'll get two more. The senate can spend two weeks spelling out the consequences for sedition. It's not like the administration has to sit on their hands and watch in the meantime.
posted by mumimor at 3:15 AM on January 10, 2021 [25 favorites]
Jan. 7, 2021
Miller is covering his behind, because the coup failed. He is also lying. It is well know that it took hours before the National Guard came in to support the Capitol Police, because the DoJ either ignored or denied the requests until frigging Pence called.
This is still good news, because it means he has realized the end is near for the Trumpists, and he doesn't want to go to jail. But he supported the violent Trumpist coup-attempt.
It was mentioned above that some Democrats are worried about impeachment because it may distract from Biden's agenda. Have they lost their minds? That is the way abused people talk, and I get it, but they need to look at the reality: Biden has at least two years to get out the vaccine and rebuild the economy. If he does it right, he'll get two more. The senate can spend two weeks spelling out the consequences for sedition. It's not like the administration has to sit on their hands and watch in the meantime.
posted by mumimor at 3:15 AM on January 10, 2021 [25 favorites]
Or donations through his websites? Sorry, folks, cash or check only.
Barter. Just like chickens and grain and stuff.
posted by brundlefly at 3:15 AM on January 10, 2021 [7 favorites]
Barter. Just like chickens and grain and stuff.
posted by brundlefly at 3:15 AM on January 10, 2021 [7 favorites]
"Is the dam starting to crack? Listen to the end (only a minute long):
https://twitter.com/i/status/1347627956508577792"
If you don't/can't watch the video, it's essentially someone being upset because people keep saying that information will be released and things will be happening and nothing's happening. Frustration at being told to wait when in two weeks it won't matter anymore. "If you say you're going to release it, just release it."
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 3:31 AM on January 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
https://twitter.com/i/status/1347627956508577792"
If you don't/can't watch the video, it's essentially someone being upset because people keep saying that information will be released and things will be happening and nothing's happening. Frustration at being told to wait when in two weeks it won't matter anymore. "If you say you're going to release it, just release it."
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 3:31 AM on January 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
because the DoJ either ignored or denied the requests until frigging Pence called
Worse, re Miller personally: per Gov Hogan, it wasn't wasn't Acting SecDef who called to authorize the Guard 90 minutes later, it was Ryan McCarthy, the Secretary of the Army.
That makes me assume that Trump/Miller stuck with the seditious plan all the way through and Pence/McCarthy decided to do the right thing, even though it was contrary to the chain of command. That's worrisome itself, but not as bad as the alternative.
When you find yourself hoping the military circumvented civilian control... well, that's pretty fucked.
posted by bcd at 3:31 AM on January 10, 2021 [23 favorites]
Worse, re Miller personally: per Gov Hogan, it wasn't wasn't Acting SecDef who called to authorize the Guard 90 minutes later, it was Ryan McCarthy, the Secretary of the Army.
That makes me assume that Trump/Miller stuck with the seditious plan all the way through and Pence/McCarthy decided to do the right thing, even though it was contrary to the chain of command. That's worrisome itself, but not as bad as the alternative.
When you find yourself hoping the military circumvented civilian control... well, that's pretty fucked.
posted by bcd at 3:31 AM on January 10, 2021 [23 favorites]
Miller is covering his behind, because the coup failed. He is also lying. It is well know that it took hours before the National Guard came in to support the Capitol Police, because the DoJ either ignored or denied the requests until frigging Pence called.
My takeaway that, Miller (having doubled back across the Rubicon and) having pledged to follow Biden, Miller would find it harder to order his subordinates to undermine or attack Congress and Biden.
Certainly, it's less reassuring that it could be.
Also, I wonder if an FBI team or Secret Service team has started hanging out in Miller's office in order to keep an eye on him.
Anyway, maybe he'll start cooperating with Biden's transition team again.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:34 AM on January 10, 2021
My takeaway that, Miller (having doubled back across the Rubicon and) having pledged to follow Biden, Miller would find it harder to order his subordinates to undermine or attack Congress and Biden.
Certainly, it's less reassuring that it could be.
Also, I wonder if an FBI team or Secret Service team has started hanging out in Miller's office in order to keep an eye on him.
Anyway, maybe he'll start cooperating with Biden's transition team again.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:34 AM on January 10, 2021
> Harris is the first woman to serve as Veep, and the first POC to serve in that role.
Minor correction: Harris is the second person of color to serve as the vice president. Hoover’s vice president, Charles Curtis, was a member of Kaw Nation.
> When you find yourself hoping the military circumvented civilian control... well, that's pretty fucked.
For what it’s worth, the Secretary of the Army is a civilian, so this was not an instance of circumvented civilian control. Or, maybe I’m wrong and the Secretary didn’t have the authority?
posted by danielparks at 3:56 AM on January 10, 2021 [20 favorites]
Minor correction: Harris is the second person of color to serve as the vice president. Hoover’s vice president, Charles Curtis, was a member of Kaw Nation.
> When you find yourself hoping the military circumvented civilian control... well, that's pretty fucked.
For what it’s worth, the Secretary of the Army is a civilian, so this was not an instance of circumvented civilian control. Or, maybe I’m wrong and the Secretary didn’t have the authority?
posted by danielparks at 3:56 AM on January 10, 2021 [20 favorites]
Now, I finally got down to reading the buzzfeed article linked above: These Black Capitol Police Officers Describe Fighting Off "Racist Ass Terrorists". If you haven't read it, read it.
A couple of quotes that stood out to me:
The discussion about wether this was a planned coup-attempt or just a bunch of idiots milling about, albeit incited by Trump, seems disingenuous to me, and even more so after reading this. I'm sorry, I don't want to offend any MeFites, so maybe I should say naive instead. And this is why I've been pushing back at the notion that Trump is somehow impaired all the way back to 2015. Trump is not intelligent, like Obama is, obviously. But he is not a demented tool in the hands of Steve Miller either. He had good reason to imagine he could get away with scaring the Republicans in Congress into supporting a coup, because his experience from the last four years told him so. And very good reason to believe that even if he failed, there would be no consequences. He can still believe that, as things are going. So he tried.
Trump performs the way he does because it appeals to his base. A large number of Republicans like idiots as presidents, which is not something Trump found out, we have seen it with Reagan and Bush II as well, and perhaps even Nixon.
It seems from this article that the rioters and maybe even some officials expected the Capitol Police to go along with the coup. If they had done so, keeping back the National Guard for a couple of hours would have at the very best led to senior congress members taken as hostages. This was a pure Reichstag Fire situation, including the ridiculous attempt to blame it on the antifa. I would look very closely at the congress members who were too stupid to not stick to their script, those who blamed it on antifa right after the mob had waved the confederate flag within the Capitol.
(And as far as I remember, we here on the Blue had already seen indications that some Proud Boys would dress up as antifa some time ago?)
The officers in the article are American heroes, I hope they will be given all the medals.
And in this light, Hawley's fist bump takes on a much more odious smell.
/rant
Sorry, I'm so angry
posted by mumimor at 4:04 AM on January 10, 2021 [107 favorites]
A couple of quotes that stood out to me:
“I found out what they were planning when a friend of mine screenshot me an Instagram story from the Proud Boys saying, ‘We’re breaching the capitol today, guys. I hope y’all ready.’” The officer, who asked to remain anonymous out of fear of retaliation from his superiors, told BuzzFeed News that it was just a sign of the chaos that was to come, which saw officers regularly finding themselves unprepared and then outmanned and overpowered by the mob.and
The officer said that while the department’s upper management had been telling them to prepare for Wednesday’s storming of the Capitol like they would for any other protest, that Instagram post sent a clear message: this wasn’t going to be just some kind of free speech protest, this was going to be a fight.
“That was a heavily trained group of militia terrorists that attacked us,” said the officer, who has been with the department for more than a decade. “They had radios, we found them, they had two-way communicators and earpieces. They had bear spray. They had flash bangs ... They were prepared. They strategically put two IEDs, pipe bombs in two different locations. These guys were military trained. A lot of them were former military,” the veteran said, referring to two suspected pipe bombs that were found outside the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee and the Republican National Committee.But read the whole thing.
The officer even described coming face to face with police officers from across the country in the mob. He said some of them flashed their badges, telling him to let them through, and trying to explain that this was all part of a movement that was supposed to help.
“You have the nerve to be holding a blue lives matter flag, and you are out there fucking us up,” he told one group of protestors he encountered inside the Capitol. “[One guy] pulled out his badge and he said, ‘we’re doing this for you.’ Another guy had his badge. So I was like, ‘well, you gotta be kidding.’”
The discussion about wether this was a planned coup-attempt or just a bunch of idiots milling about, albeit incited by Trump, seems disingenuous to me, and even more so after reading this. I'm sorry, I don't want to offend any MeFites, so maybe I should say naive instead. And this is why I've been pushing back at the notion that Trump is somehow impaired all the way back to 2015. Trump is not intelligent, like Obama is, obviously. But he is not a demented tool in the hands of Steve Miller either. He had good reason to imagine he could get away with scaring the Republicans in Congress into supporting a coup, because his experience from the last four years told him so. And very good reason to believe that even if he failed, there would be no consequences. He can still believe that, as things are going. So he tried.
Trump performs the way he does because it appeals to his base. A large number of Republicans like idiots as presidents, which is not something Trump found out, we have seen it with Reagan and Bush II as well, and perhaps even Nixon.
It seems from this article that the rioters and maybe even some officials expected the Capitol Police to go along with the coup. If they had done so, keeping back the National Guard for a couple of hours would have at the very best led to senior congress members taken as hostages. This was a pure Reichstag Fire situation, including the ridiculous attempt to blame it on the antifa. I would look very closely at the congress members who were too stupid to not stick to their script, those who blamed it on antifa right after the mob had waved the confederate flag within the Capitol.
(And as far as I remember, we here on the Blue had already seen indications that some Proud Boys would dress up as antifa some time ago?)
The officers in the article are American heroes, I hope they will be given all the medals.
And in this light, Hawley's fist bump takes on a much more odious smell.
/rant
Sorry, I'm so angry
posted by mumimor at 4:04 AM on January 10, 2021 [107 favorites]
>
Can't you just hear the pain in the voice of chief content officer and editor of Forbes, and writer on business, philanthropy, and food Randall Lane? Why I bet it was completely excruciating, and disarrayed his trendy chapeau, for their web site to pop up a dialog box and offer me the opportunity to claim I'm a resident of California so that some meager fraction of my personal data that got away from their lawyers won't be re-sold to every advertiser and government intelligence agency and Russian troll farm who can pay their price. Because they love facts so much, y'know.
┈┈┈┈
Just to be clear, I'm not saying above that we should give up on going through the motions of legal filings and appealing things up to SerialgangrapistCOTUS,† it's just that we shouldn't dress in brightly-colored uniforms and line up in neat formations vulnerable to enfilading fire, by debating amongst ourselves which eighteenth or nineteenth-century precedents and laws we should confine ourselves to in choosing where to meet the “enemies, foreign and domestic” for conflict, while said enemies are figuratively (and perhaps literally, depending on how things go) employing twenty-first century “full-spectrum dominance of the battlespace” advanced military doctrine and also CIA-taught ISIS/mujāhidīn asymmetrical warfare tactics and also state-plus-crime-syndicate-sponsored computational propaganda campaigns via botnet, et cetera.
Particularly, as Pouteria says, if we respond to Trump pardoning himself or pardoning insurrectionists in this environment by shrugging and saying “well gee, he's totally got us according to my copy of the 1910 second edition of Black's Law Dictionary, current to the era when the KKK was still allowed to torture Black WWI veterans to death in public for wearing their military uniforms off-base... so maybe the paperwork we're filing at the UN—a process which our own Bush II administration designated initiating as a potential terrorist act, by the way (IIRC), back when the rules we're trying to play by supposedly mattered more than in the ‘post-truth era’—maybe the UN paperwork will get us somewhere when it finally reaches the top level of the right committee around August 2026...” then as rightly put in the comment above
† Gods bless the memory of Notorious RBG but it's like not-even-Voldemort broke the fourth wall and corrupted the legitimacy of the Ministry of Magic by essentially tattooing “written by the white-cis-hetero-Patriarchy a.k.a. J. K. Rowling” on everyone's forehead in... invisible ink, uh, bought in Diagon Alley, uh... hit the end of my Harry Potter knowledge
>
How about when Republicans and all of the Democrats except for Barbara Lee decided to do exactly what Osama bin Laden wanted them to do and embarked on an odyssey of killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims, because “Islamic terrorist group” as we know for certain now really actually is just a stupid propaganda term, and those groups spend most of their time murdering Muslims... so doing the same thing ourselves was not outsmarting them but was charging at the toréador's cape, like we've just spent a few years doing for Vladimir Putin?
Or when Russia subsequently cyberattacked the government and elections of and physically invaded Georgia (the other Georgia) and your husband said, “in the twenty-first century nations don't invade other nations”? Maybe just a few seconds' worth of lapse of pride in being a Republican at that point, if nothing more recent comes to mind? Maybe sabotaging the prospects for the average American to get the sort of medical treatments that kept your husband alive longer, after his last vote just barely held a shambles of a system together?
But no, by all means, don't damage the brand by being honest or really standing for the rule of law or anything, not in the face of a Republican tyrant and his lackies whose entire gimmick is saying that everyone is full of shit while also being full of shit themselves all the time.
┈┈┈┈
IA archives of Iris Gambol's photo links: ①, ②, ③, ④,
Forbes.com: A Truth Reckoning [...] lies-upon-lies, repeated frequently and fervently, provided the kindling, the spark, the gasoline. [...] In this time of transition – and pain – reinvigorating democracy requires a reckoning. A truth reckoning. [...] As American democracy rebounds, we need to return to a standard of truth...
“And so, because Black Lives Matter, we here at Forbes are going to openly and courageously begin talking plainly about America's original sin, white supremacy, constantly, in all its despicable pathetic horror, while incisively detailing how the wealth management and broader business communities and industries of the United States have historically benefited and continue to benefit from it, because that's in our journalistic wheelhouse. Not.”
“It's super bad that white supremacists did those bad things and stuff, but we're totally into golden parachutes sewn from gilded human probably-not-white skin, just not for the wrong people, and not in any cancel-culturey way.”
“And also we have our custom Italian sports cars upholstered in the same human skin. Can't give that up, natch, any more than the post-US is going to switch to electric cars in the main.”
As someone in the business of facts, it’s been especially painful...
Can't you just hear the pain in the voice of chief content officer and editor of Forbes, and writer on business, philanthropy, and food Randall Lane? Why I bet it was completely excruciating, and disarrayed his trendy chapeau, for their web site to pop up a dialog box and offer me the opportunity to claim I'm a resident of California so that some meager fraction of my personal data that got away from their lawyers won't be re-sold to every advertiser and government intelligence agency and Russian troll farm who can pay their price. Because they love facts so much, y'know.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying above that we should give up on going through the motions of legal filings and appealing things up to SerialgangrapistCOTUS,† it's just that we shouldn't dress in brightly-colored uniforms and line up in neat formations vulnerable to enfilading fire, by debating amongst ourselves which eighteenth or nineteenth-century precedents and laws we should confine ourselves to in choosing where to meet the “enemies, foreign and domestic” for conflict, while said enemies are figuratively (and perhaps literally, depending on how things go) employing twenty-first century “full-spectrum dominance of the battlespace” advanced military doctrine and also CIA-taught ISIS/mujāhidīn asymmetrical warfare tactics and also state-plus-crime-syndicate-sponsored computational propaganda campaigns via botnet, et cetera.
Particularly, as Pouteria says, if we respond to Trump pardoning himself or pardoning insurrectionists in this environment by shrugging and saying “well gee, he's totally got us according to my copy of the 1910 second edition of Black's Law Dictionary, current to the era when the KKK was still allowed to torture Black WWI veterans to death in public for wearing their military uniforms off-base... so maybe the paperwork we're filing at the UN—a process which our own Bush II administration designated initiating as a potential terrorist act, by the way (IIRC), back when the rules we're trying to play by supposedly mattered more than in the ‘post-truth era’—maybe the UN paperwork will get us somewhere when it finally reaches the top level of the right committee around August 2026...” then as rightly put in the comment above
Any society that allows it cannot expect to survive long, and doesn't deserve to.
† Gods bless the memory of Notorious RBG but it's like not-even-Voldemort broke the fourth wall and corrupted the legitimacy of the Ministry of Magic by essentially tattooing “written by the white-cis-hetero-Patriarchy a.k.a. J. K. Rowling” on everyone's forehead in... invisible ink, uh, bought in Diagon Alley, uh... hit the end of my Harry Potter knowledge
>
Cindy McCain's Twitter response, also Jan. 9: I am a proud lifelong Republican and will continue to support candidates who put country over party and stand for the rule of law.
How about when Republicans and all of the Democrats except for Barbara Lee decided to do exactly what Osama bin Laden wanted them to do and embarked on an odyssey of killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims, because “Islamic terrorist group” as we know for certain now really actually is just a stupid propaganda term, and those groups spend most of their time murdering Muslims... so doing the same thing ourselves was not outsmarting them but was charging at the toréador's cape, like we've just spent a few years doing for Vladimir Putin?
Or when Russia subsequently cyberattacked the government and elections of and physically invaded Georgia (the other Georgia) and your husband said, “in the twenty-first century nations don't invade other nations”? Maybe just a few seconds' worth of lapse of pride in being a Republican at that point, if nothing more recent comes to mind? Maybe sabotaging the prospects for the average American to get the sort of medical treatments that kept your husband alive longer, after his last vote just barely held a shambles of a system together?
But no, by all means, don't damage the brand by being honest or really standing for the rule of law or anything, not in the face of a Republican tyrant and his lackies whose entire gimmick is saying that everyone is full of shit while also being full of shit themselves all the time.
IA archives of Iris Gambol's photo links: ①, ②, ③, ④,
posted by Mogur at 12:42 PM on January 8, 2021 [8 favorites]