Still the Most Magical Place on Earth?
January 15, 2021 2:34 AM Subscribe
Changes are afoot at Disney's theme parks. Disneyland Resort Annual Passes are being discontinued, Disneyworld Magical Express airport transfer buses are ending in 2022, and veteran Imagineers Joe Rohde and Kevin Rafferty are retiring.
Wild. I had lot of friends in school as well as a sibling who were regular pass holders back when it was just plain old Disneyland, and they would sometimes do stuff like go there just to do homework and/or hang out.
The pass used to be a insanely good deal that didn't really have any blackout dates, but as I understand it the program (along with locals-only ticket discounts) was initially started because they were having issues with ticket sales and flagging attendance.
Then the program became ridiculously expensive. In the beginning it was only something like 3-4x the cost of a single park ticket for a year without many or any blackout dates at all, and it became so expensive you had to justify going about a dozen or two different times and negotiating the complicated blackout date calendars to make it worth it.
If you were ever wondering how the weird Disneyland Videodrome nightclub worked and actually managed to get enough people in it willing to hang out and dance to music videos the affordability of the annual pass was part of that. Kids weren't dropping the price of a daily ticket to go hang out there, many of them had passes.
On the other hand we also abused the hell out of the park's re-entry hand stamp program by either pooling our money for one valid ticket or having someone with an annual pass go in, find copies of the paper tickets on the ground, exit the park, get a hand stamp and then we'd use clear packing tape to capture and pick up the UV ink of the fresh hand stamp and transfer the stamp to as many people as possible and then use the discarded tickets with a hand stamp to enter.
Long before UV LEDs, battery powered black lights or even car power AC inverters were commonly available we had a totally illicit system where we had a large night club style blacklight tube light powered by a very irritated UPS battery/inverter where we'd charge it up, unplug it and leave it powered on and beeping the "power lost" alarm so we could plug in the blacklight and make sure the hand stamp transfers looked legit.
I remember sometimes it would take multiple waves of people entering and exiting to get fresh stamps to get everyone in because the tape impression of the hand stamp was only good for a few transfers, and it could take a while to find valid discarded tickets for the crew, but once you had a few people in the process went much faster because then you had multiple people with multiple fresh hand stamps and tickets.
I have no idea how we weren't caught doing that so many times. I can't imagine that bunch of alternative/grunge/goth teenagers loitering around in the parking lot smoking cloves and then messing around with a blacklight and tape blended in very well or did not look suspicious as fuck. I know they changed the UV reactive ink to something that was more of a stain or dye instead of the oily stuff they originally used that made it so easy to copy the hand stamp.
If you've ever wondered why the re-entry system is so strict and complicated today or why they're generally so thorough about searching bags every time, well, that's probably on us and the other resourceful teenagers of the 80s and 90s. I haven't been in years but last time I was there they had countermeasures like fingerprint scanners or requiring ID that matched a ticket holder or something and added a bunch of other security measures to the tickets themselves.
On the other hand I remember a friend had a photo of himself sitting in broad daylight one of the main street plazas wearing a tie dye suit complete with top hot with a tail coat while smoking a fat joint and holding a nitrous/whippet balloon in the other because he was just exactly that particular kind of a fancy pants deadhead.
posted by loquacious at 5:57 AM on January 15, 2021 [69 favorites]
The pass used to be a insanely good deal that didn't really have any blackout dates, but as I understand it the program (along with locals-only ticket discounts) was initially started because they were having issues with ticket sales and flagging attendance.
Then the program became ridiculously expensive. In the beginning it was only something like 3-4x the cost of a single park ticket for a year without many or any blackout dates at all, and it became so expensive you had to justify going about a dozen or two different times and negotiating the complicated blackout date calendars to make it worth it.
If you were ever wondering how the weird Disneyland Videodrome nightclub worked and actually managed to get enough people in it willing to hang out and dance to music videos the affordability of the annual pass was part of that. Kids weren't dropping the price of a daily ticket to go hang out there, many of them had passes.
On the other hand we also abused the hell out of the park's re-entry hand stamp program by either pooling our money for one valid ticket or having someone with an annual pass go in, find copies of the paper tickets on the ground, exit the park, get a hand stamp and then we'd use clear packing tape to capture and pick up the UV ink of the fresh hand stamp and transfer the stamp to as many people as possible and then use the discarded tickets with a hand stamp to enter.
Long before UV LEDs, battery powered black lights or even car power AC inverters were commonly available we had a totally illicit system where we had a large night club style blacklight tube light powered by a very irritated UPS battery/inverter where we'd charge it up, unplug it and leave it powered on and beeping the "power lost" alarm so we could plug in the blacklight and make sure the hand stamp transfers looked legit.
I remember sometimes it would take multiple waves of people entering and exiting to get fresh stamps to get everyone in because the tape impression of the hand stamp was only good for a few transfers, and it could take a while to find valid discarded tickets for the crew, but once you had a few people in the process went much faster because then you had multiple people with multiple fresh hand stamps and tickets.
I have no idea how we weren't caught doing that so many times. I can't imagine that bunch of alternative/grunge/goth teenagers loitering around in the parking lot smoking cloves and then messing around with a blacklight and tape blended in very well or did not look suspicious as fuck. I know they changed the UV reactive ink to something that was more of a stain or dye instead of the oily stuff they originally used that made it so easy to copy the hand stamp.
If you've ever wondered why the re-entry system is so strict and complicated today or why they're generally so thorough about searching bags every time, well, that's probably on us and the other resourceful teenagers of the 80s and 90s. I haven't been in years but last time I was there they had countermeasures like fingerprint scanners or requiring ID that matched a ticket holder or something and added a bunch of other security measures to the tickets themselves.
On the other hand I remember a friend had a photo of himself sitting in broad daylight one of the main street plazas wearing a tie dye suit complete with top hot with a tail coat while smoking a fat joint and holding a nitrous/whippet balloon in the other because he was just exactly that particular kind of a fancy pants deadhead.
posted by loquacious at 5:57 AM on January 15, 2021 [69 favorites]
wierdo: Yes, Brightline has an agreement to open a station in Disney Springs, supposedly due to be completed in 2022 (that's as of a news story from Nov 2020, i.e. post-COVID). So perhaps this is the basis for getting rid of the Magical Express!
posted by adrianhon at 6:15 AM on January 15, 2021
posted by adrianhon at 6:15 AM on January 15, 2021
A Reddit posted made an interesting point here about Disney: they can scale up like nobody else, but they don't gracefully scale down.
And their costs are like few other businesses: with the example of a nighttime show that cost $150 million to design & execute, they need to show it over and over, to huge crowds, to justify that kind of spending.
I understand temporary COVID-driven changes. I am kind of amazed that Magical Express buses are going away (though getting dumped at that mall -- instead of your resort -- is bogus). And I am flabbergasted that Annual Passes are going away.
Has Disney finally discovered just how much the market will bear?
posted by wenestvedt at 6:26 AM on January 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
And their costs are like few other businesses: with the example of a nighttime show that cost $150 million to design & execute, they need to show it over and over, to huge crowds, to justify that kind of spending.
I understand temporary COVID-driven changes. I am kind of amazed that Magical Express buses are going away (though getting dumped at that mall -- instead of your resort -- is bogus). And I am flabbergasted that Annual Passes are going away.
Has Disney finally discovered just how much the market will bear?
posted by wenestvedt at 6:26 AM on January 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
As east coasters, we usually visit Disney World, and always make use of the Magical Express. It'll be a real difference to visit without it. What's really magical is that you can just forget about your luggage as soon as you drop it at the airport. Not having to wait at the carousel or lug your bags to a bus or train or rental car is really nice. That'd be a big loss.
That said, we visited Disneyland when we were in LA at the end of summer (the last week in August, 2019), and it was just such a better experience that I'm sort of soured on WDW in general. Sure, you've got your Epcot and your DHS and the resorts, but damn if it wasn't nice to pay like $85 a night for a regular motel room, walk across the street, and enjoy the parks for like 12 hours a day. Our daughter was 5 at the time, and she just went at it, absolutely wore us out. I don't think she could have done that at WDW where the end of the day is waiting on line for a bus or the monorail and traveling back to the hotel.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:29 AM on January 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
That said, we visited Disneyland when we were in LA at the end of summer (the last week in August, 2019), and it was just such a better experience that I'm sort of soured on WDW in general. Sure, you've got your Epcot and your DHS and the resorts, but damn if it wasn't nice to pay like $85 a night for a regular motel room, walk across the street, and enjoy the parks for like 12 hours a day. Our daughter was 5 at the time, and she just went at it, absolutely wore us out. I don't think she could have done that at WDW where the end of the day is waiting on line for a bus or the monorail and traveling back to the hotel.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:29 AM on January 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
That train station sounds amazing, and would make a lot of sense. I wonder if there will be internal Disney busses originating from Disney Springs that will take you to your resort, or if the new arrivals will have to struggle their suitcases on the regular resort busses.
I will miss Magical Express deeply, because with the included baggage transfer it meant you could get off the plane, get onto the happy bus and vacation was started. You can easily forget something small going away (they're taking away complimentary Magicbands) but Magical Express has been around since 1999 or 2000 I think. That's a LONG time.
If you've ever wondered why the re-entry system is so strict and complicated today or why they're generally so thorough about searching bags every time, well, that's probably on us and the other resourceful teenagers of the 80s and 90s.
Nah, not just you (well, maybe a bit), but the legions of adults on the Disney Parks internet communities who constantly scheme on ways to break the system to their benefit every single time.
posted by kimberussell at 6:32 AM on January 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
I will miss Magical Express deeply, because with the included baggage transfer it meant you could get off the plane, get onto the happy bus and vacation was started. You can easily forget something small going away (they're taking away complimentary Magicbands) but Magical Express has been around since 1999 or 2000 I think. That's a LONG time.
If you've ever wondered why the re-entry system is so strict and complicated today or why they're generally so thorough about searching bags every time, well, that's probably on us and the other resourceful teenagers of the 80s and 90s.
Nah, not just you (well, maybe a bit), but the legions of adults on the Disney Parks internet communities who constantly scheme on ways to break the system to their benefit every single time.
posted by kimberussell at 6:32 AM on January 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
Charging for Magic Bands reminds me of TicketMaster charging extra for selling you a ticket, when in fact they are the only way to get a ticket.
I mean, Disney are the ones setting the rules on how to get into the park and stuff, and they created the system, and now they want an extra vig just so you can actually follow the rules? WTH, Mouse House?!
posted by wenestvedt at 6:52 AM on January 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
I mean, Disney are the ones setting the rules on how to get into the park and stuff, and they created the system, and now they want an extra vig just so you can actually follow the rules? WTH, Mouse House?!
posted by wenestvedt at 6:52 AM on January 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
They're keeping the annual passes for Disney World though, presumably because they have a lot more real estate to work with. (And maybe because they also know DeSantis won't lift a finger to impose restrictions)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:53 AM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:53 AM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
I have been watching COVID-era Disney parks news in horrified fascination. I am not any more of a Disney movies fan than anyone else who grew up with a pile of those clamshell VHS tapes - I still haven't seen Soul, or the newest season of The Mandalorian, or most of the recent feature animations, actually. But I am (was?) a huuuuuuuuge Disney parks fan, to the point that in 2018 I visited every single Disney park on the PLANET. I was a passholder for the Florida park for...I think two years, even though I didn't live there, because I was traveling a lot for work and flights were cheap and I did the math on how many days I needed to visit to make it worthwhile and the math was favorable. I don't even like running, but I built from Couch to 5K and did a half marathon on both coasts to get the special medal (pro tip: if they ever bring those races back, being backstage is neat, but Disneyland's races are way better because you run through actual neighborhoods in Anaheim and it's more like a normal race with people bringing out signs and their school marching bands and stuff. Running on those big endless boring highways inside Walt Disney World is bleak if you aren't fast.). I'm an Imagineering junkie and a sucker for wandering around a park figuring out how they do all those hiding-the-queue tricks and forced perspective and subtle background music fades. I have an endless capacity for watching fireworks synchronized to music and light-up parades.
But I'm not in a hurry to go back, post-COVID. I'm sure a bunch of stuff will rebound as people start revenge traveling in...what, 2022 at this point? But it's not super clear how many things will be permanent cuts that were convenient to make because of COVID. Cast Members have been treated terribly and the talent pool has just been annihilated. A lot of the incredibly talented musicians and performers who made places like Epcot neat to just hang around were cut loose with no warning.
There's almost no benefit to staying in one of the overpriced themed Disney-owned hotels at this point. The seamless "Disney bubble" for Orlando visits might be gone forever, and say what you like about the cost and the corporateness, but if you're looking for a really easy vacation, it doesn't get easier than checking your bags at your home airport and having them turn up in your hotel room later that day, and not having to arrange your transportation because it's all already taken care of for you. Disney has a real knack for not reading the writing on the wall about customer experience and they've kept charging premium prices for a clearly subpar lodging and entertainment experience, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of that continue post-pandemic. I'm sure the passholder program will come back once the pandemic-based capacity limits are lifted (and the park is, you know, open), but I'm sure it'll be a seriously degraded program in terms of value. A lot of the rides are only okay. The real appeal of a Disney park, for me, has always been 1) the imagineered environment, 2) the entertainment, especially those huge night spectaculars, and 3) the awesome people who work there. I don't even like roller coasters, guys.
I was looking forward to taking our niblings on their first big Disney World trip, but now I'm pretty lukewarm on the idea. We'll see how they rebound, but at this point all I really want is to eventually see the Star Wars land in Disneyland (because it really is SUCH a less overwhelming park to visit than the one in Florida). I feel pretty done with the US parks.
(None of this applies to the Asian parks, by the way, especially Tokyo Disney Resort, which is the absolute best artificial environment on Earth and importantly is not actually operated by Disney.)
posted by bowtiesarecool at 7:00 AM on January 15, 2021 [17 favorites]
But I'm not in a hurry to go back, post-COVID. I'm sure a bunch of stuff will rebound as people start revenge traveling in...what, 2022 at this point? But it's not super clear how many things will be permanent cuts that were convenient to make because of COVID. Cast Members have been treated terribly and the talent pool has just been annihilated. A lot of the incredibly talented musicians and performers who made places like Epcot neat to just hang around were cut loose with no warning.
There's almost no benefit to staying in one of the overpriced themed Disney-owned hotels at this point. The seamless "Disney bubble" for Orlando visits might be gone forever, and say what you like about the cost and the corporateness, but if you're looking for a really easy vacation, it doesn't get easier than checking your bags at your home airport and having them turn up in your hotel room later that day, and not having to arrange your transportation because it's all already taken care of for you. Disney has a real knack for not reading the writing on the wall about customer experience and they've kept charging premium prices for a clearly subpar lodging and entertainment experience, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of that continue post-pandemic. I'm sure the passholder program will come back once the pandemic-based capacity limits are lifted (and the park is, you know, open), but I'm sure it'll be a seriously degraded program in terms of value. A lot of the rides are only okay. The real appeal of a Disney park, for me, has always been 1) the imagineered environment, 2) the entertainment, especially those huge night spectaculars, and 3) the awesome people who work there. I don't even like roller coasters, guys.
I was looking forward to taking our niblings on their first big Disney World trip, but now I'm pretty lukewarm on the idea. We'll see how they rebound, but at this point all I really want is to eventually see the Star Wars land in Disneyland (because it really is SUCH a less overwhelming park to visit than the one in Florida). I feel pretty done with the US parks.
(None of this applies to the Asian parks, by the way, especially Tokyo Disney Resort, which is the absolute best artificial environment on Earth and importantly is not actually operated by Disney.)
posted by bowtiesarecool at 7:00 AM on January 15, 2021 [17 favorites]
There's almost no benefit to staying in one of the overpriced themed Disney-owned hotels at this point.
Yes! I was saying that to my husband last week. We are also big WDW fans (although we've been going less and less as the prices have skyrocketed even for 2 adults sans kids) and while we'll definitely go back to once we're comfortable with it, we might end up picking an offsite hotel, renting a car, and finally seeing what Universal's been up to for the last decade or so. I haven't stayed off-property since 1998.
posted by kimberussell at 7:10 AM on January 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yes! I was saying that to my husband last week. We are also big WDW fans (although we've been going less and less as the prices have skyrocketed even for 2 adults sans kids) and while we'll definitely go back to once we're comfortable with it, we might end up picking an offsite hotel, renting a car, and finally seeing what Universal's been up to for the last decade or so. I haven't stayed off-property since 1998.
posted by kimberussell at 7:10 AM on January 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Disney has a real knack for not reading the writing on the wall about customer experience and they've kept charging premium prices for a clearly subpar lodging and entertainment experience, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of that continue post-pandemic
Yeah, a decade or more ago, my friends and I would all go to WDW for a week in September every year, when crowds would thin out and prices were low, and it was a great experience. We spent a ton of money on food and drink and had a blast because the experience was seamless and easy.
We tried to do it in 2018, and the prices were so much higher and the experience so much worse (materially; not just because we were trying to entertain small kids, too) that it didn't seem worth it anymore. We were supposed to go again at the end of last year, but obviously that didn't pan out, and honestly I'm not too cheesed about it.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:12 AM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yeah, a decade or more ago, my friends and I would all go to WDW for a week in September every year, when crowds would thin out and prices were low, and it was a great experience. We spent a ton of money on food and drink and had a blast because the experience was seamless and easy.
We tried to do it in 2018, and the prices were so much higher and the experience so much worse (materially; not just because we were trying to entertain small kids, too) that it didn't seem worth it anymore. We were supposed to go again at the end of last year, but obviously that didn't pan out, and honestly I'm not too cheesed about it.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:12 AM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
The Disney parks mean so much to me that the impact of a pandemic on them is literally, not kidding, something I used to have nightmares about.
But I've never been to the Tokyo ones, and when the time comes, I think that shall be our first big adventure.
Staying on-site at WDW is OK if (A) it's the Swan *and* (B) Epcot is your favorite park. I have nothing but praise for the staff of the Swan, and that's as of right about a year ago. The Swan is also within walking distance of DHS, which paid off for us w/r/t Galaxy's Edge.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 7:15 AM on January 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
But I've never been to the Tokyo ones, and when the time comes, I think that shall be our first big adventure.
Staying on-site at WDW is OK if (A) it's the Swan *and* (B) Epcot is your favorite park. I have nothing but praise for the staff of the Swan, and that's as of right about a year ago. The Swan is also within walking distance of DHS, which paid off for us w/r/t Galaxy's Edge.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 7:15 AM on January 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
The last time I was at WDW I was ten and we stayed at the Caribbean Beach Resort which at the time was the lowest price Disney hotel. We were right across the street from the back of World Showcase but to get to EPCOT we still had to take a 30min bus ride all the way to the other side of the park.
I knew from the paperback guide to Walt Disney World my parents got that the Swan and the Dolphin had friggin' boats that went directly into EPCOT and it really ticked me off that they got their own special entrance and we had to sit on a smelly bus in traffic. And our stay package included a character breakfast, but we weren't in an important enough hotel to have our own character breakfast on site--we had to go to the Grand Floridian Resort which was just a whole 'nother level of opulence with it's own monorail station.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:32 AM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I knew from the paperback guide to Walt Disney World my parents got that the Swan and the Dolphin had friggin' boats that went directly into EPCOT and it really ticked me off that they got their own special entrance and we had to sit on a smelly bus in traffic. And our stay package included a character breakfast, but we weren't in an important enough hotel to have our own character breakfast on site--we had to go to the Grand Floridian Resort which was just a whole 'nother level of opulence with it's own monorail station.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:32 AM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Wow - I stayed at the Dolphin with my sister when I was in college (many years ago) and they definitely did not offer a boat to sail right into a park at that time. That would have been SWEET. We rode a bus like any other chump. We also saw Penn Gillette on a pay phone in the lobby, which was a bonus, and also tells you how long ago this was.
posted by 41swans at 7:42 AM on January 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by 41swans at 7:42 AM on January 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
We always stayed at the Poly, on the monorail line. Loved the tiki-kitsch and, man, the drinks in the bar were killer. It’s been quite awhile since we were last there, though. That bus from the airport will definitely be missed.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:45 AM on January 15, 2021
posted by Thorzdad at 7:45 AM on January 15, 2021
So Disney Springs is the old Lake Buena Vista Shopping Village / Pleasure Island location? That was always a nexus for the busses between the hotels and parks. Back in the day those nearby hotels had special privledges since they were on the grounds but not Disney-operated hotels, but they had the first busses from the rooms to the parks since they were not on the monorail. (TraveLodge for life, yo!)
If they can also streamline the airport transfer, that seems like a win. Right now you have to locate the Magical Express checkin area and then sort yourself into the correct bus for the correct resort area. One check-in line, one train, more cars in motion, figure it out when you get to the lake. Kind of makes sense.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:50 AM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
If they can also streamline the airport transfer, that seems like a win. Right now you have to locate the Magical Express checkin area and then sort yourself into the correct bus for the correct resort area. One check-in line, one train, more cars in motion, figure it out when you get to the lake. Kind of makes sense.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:50 AM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yeah, a decade or more ago, my friends and I would all go to WDW for a week in September every year, when crowds would thin out and prices were low, and it was a great experience.
Pandemic theme park is actually a great experience. I've not been to Disney, but I've been to others, and 25% capacity is exactly the sweet spot. Short lines! Double riding (riding without getting off) and triple riding and we even pulled a quadruple! And I don't personally feel that a theme park with no lines is any more dangerous than the grocery store check out line.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:01 AM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
So Disney Springs is the old Lake Buena Vista Shopping Village / Pleasure Island location?
Yes.
posted by mmascolino at 8:05 AM on January 15, 2021
Yes.
posted by mmascolino at 8:05 AM on January 15, 2021
I was also taken to WDW when I was four. I have vague memories of walking through the airport heading for a bus and then suddenly some guy approached us and the next thing I knew we were being driven to the hotel and I remember my parents telling him that they really appreciated running into him and the same guy later drove us back to the airport.
Did limo drivers hang around the airport concourse in the 1980s looking for Disney-bound families, or was this some random encounter with him being generous?
I have more memories from the early 1990s trip. We rode a bus from the airport to an Alamo car rental center and then waited for what seemed liked forever before getting a car which my dad then drove to our hotel. This was also around the time that there had been a series of highly publicized random highway shootings in Miami, and not knowing how far that was from Orlando left me feeling kinda terrified while riding in the back seat.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:07 AM on January 15, 2021
Did limo drivers hang around the airport concourse in the 1980s looking for Disney-bound families, or was this some random encounter with him being generous?
I have more memories from the early 1990s trip. We rode a bus from the airport to an Alamo car rental center and then waited for what seemed liked forever before getting a car which my dad then drove to our hotel. This was also around the time that there had been a series of highly publicized random highway shootings in Miami, and not knowing how far that was from Orlando left me feeling kinda terrified while riding in the back seat.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:07 AM on January 15, 2021
triple riding and we even pulled a quadruple
I rode Smuggler's Run three times in a row at Disneyland when we were there, while my wife and daughter were changing after a particularly damp Splash Mountain experience. It was glorious. Single Rider line FTW.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:39 AM on January 15, 2021
I rode Smuggler's Run three times in a row at Disneyland when we were there, while my wife and daughter were changing after a particularly damp Splash Mountain experience. It was glorious. Single Rider line FTW.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:39 AM on January 15, 2021
Pandemic theme park is actually a great experience. I've not been to Disney, but I've been to others, and 25% capacity is exactly the sweet spot. Short lines!
This probably describes the Disney World experience in July when they re-opened...but they had increased admission limits enough to totally fill the reduced ride capacity by October. No FastPasses, either, so every park other than MK was going to make you waaaaait for the top couple of rides.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:40 AM on January 15, 2021
This probably describes the Disney World experience in July when they re-opened...but they had increased admission limits enough to totally fill the reduced ride capacity by October. No FastPasses, either, so every park other than MK was going to make you waaaaait for the top couple of rides.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:40 AM on January 15, 2021
All this talk of Tokyo Disneyland and Disneysea suggests I should do a post about them! I'll say this for now: I'd heard the hype and I was expecting to be disappointed. Instead, I was absolutely gobsmacked by the reality. I must've spent the entire day with my mouth hanging open at the sheer scale and ambition of the place.
posted by adrianhon at 8:48 AM on January 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by adrianhon at 8:48 AM on January 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
(This is truly tangential but for anyone considering a trip to Tokyo Disney in the After Times, you want to check out TDR Explorer, the best English-language source of info! There's a lot more English signage and maps and stuff than there used to be, but it's definitely an intense park to visit without a plan. Who knows when it'll be legal/a good idea to visit if you don't already live in Japan, though.)
posted by bowtiesarecool at 8:53 AM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by bowtiesarecool at 8:53 AM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I have a house in Orange, close enough that not hearing the daily 9:30PM fireworks was what really made it clear that 2020 would be like other.
I had passes, and some years it would have cost me close to $100k if I had to pay full price all the time. And some people literally go every day. The are lots of distraught people in the OC subreddit, I can't even imagine the Disney specific ones.
I've not been to Disney, but I've been to others, and 25% capacity is exactly the sweet spot. Short lines!
At 25% capacity, they could raise prices to the mid to high four figures in Anaheim the day they re-open, and probably still not meet demand. Hell, pre-Covid they probably could have just doubled tickets to ~$250/day and not really put a dent in how many people were in the park.
I'm not sure, if this pass thing happens long term, it will move the needle enough, but Disney and Anaheim has a very precarious relationship in the political sense. If the local voters literally can't afford to enter the park, that relationship might evolve into outright hostility, and the those close votes might swing drastically the other way out of the Mouse's favor.
posted by sideshow at 9:03 AM on January 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
I had passes, and some years it would have cost me close to $100k if I had to pay full price all the time. And some people literally go every day. The are lots of distraught people in the OC subreddit, I can't even imagine the Disney specific ones.
I've not been to Disney, but I've been to others, and 25% capacity is exactly the sweet spot. Short lines!
At 25% capacity, they could raise prices to the mid to high four figures in Anaheim the day they re-open, and probably still not meet demand. Hell, pre-Covid they probably could have just doubled tickets to ~$250/day and not really put a dent in how many people were in the park.
I'm not sure, if this pass thing happens long term, it will move the needle enough, but Disney and Anaheim has a very precarious relationship in the political sense. If the local voters literally can't afford to enter the park, that relationship might evolve into outright hostility, and the those close votes might swing drastically the other way out of the Mouse's favor.
posted by sideshow at 9:03 AM on January 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
It's interesting how different locales treat the whole idea of "getting to the park" so differently. Both Tokyo Disneyland and Disneyland Paris are accessible by regular rail service, not even their own bespoke spur. I understand with being in a Florida swamp that Disneyworld wouldn't have any sort of decent transit options, but Disneyland? Santa Monica to Disneyland just using mass transit takes about as long as it takes to go from NYC to DC on Amtrak, to travel roughly the same distance from the centre of Paris to Disneyland Paris. That Paris to the park train ride? Under 40 minutes.
posted by thecjm at 9:23 AM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by thecjm at 9:23 AM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
thecjm: Ooof, that reminds me of the time I was doing some work with Imagineering and they asked me to be at Disneyland before it opened. I couldn't drive and didn't think to just get a cab, so I ended up taking a series of buses and trains from central LA at an ungodly hour in the morning. I was so tired by the afternoon I was almost falling asleep on my feet.
posted by adrianhon at 9:33 AM on January 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by adrianhon at 9:33 AM on January 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
I expect Disney to recreate Magical Express with its own service, renegotiate with Mears, or contract with another company. Not only is it a major selling point for the Disney Experience™, it's also a major practical consideration for the cruise lines. Getting a cab or rideshare from Orlando International to Disney World isn't too heinously expensive. Doing the same for the hour long drive from the airport to Port Canaveral could easily be over $100.
And of course, Disney wants you to be in its transportation ecosystem and staying at its hotels. If you take a bus from the airport, you don't have a car. If you don't have a car, it's much easier to stay on property for the whole trip.
posted by jedicus at 9:36 AM on January 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
And of course, Disney wants you to be in its transportation ecosystem and staying at its hotels. If you take a bus from the airport, you don't have a car. If you don't have a car, it's much easier to stay on property for the whole trip.
posted by jedicus at 9:36 AM on January 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
If the local voters literally can't afford to enter the park, that relationship might evolve into outright hostility...
Oh, like a pro sports stadium partially paid for with tax dollars? I hear ya.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:46 AM on January 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Oh, like a pro sports stadium partially paid for with tax dollars? I hear ya.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:46 AM on January 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
I was so tired by the afternoon I was almost falling asleep on my feet.
Yeah, I'm a life long bus rider and the thought of going from Santa Monica to Anaheim on transit sounds exhausting. I think we might even be underestimating how long it would take with transfers, because you might even be crossing 3+ transit systems in the process, and the bus service in OC has always sucked and has apparently only gotten worse lately, while LA's MTA has improved a lot with all the new subways and light rail.
I used to have some bus commutes to work that exceeded 2+ hours each way and god forbid you miss a transfer because it might add 30-60 minutes to it.
This also reminds me of the trope and meme of SoCal locals having friends or family visit from out of state and having totally impossible ideas about all the things they'd like to see or do in a single day or weekend. Stuff like go to the beach, then Disneyland, and then Hollywood and then go to Griffith Observatory or a museum all in the same day and not being able to understand that this meant that they might be spending 90% of their day in a car stuck in freeway traffic, and if they were really lucky they might be able to spend 10 minutes at each stop for a bathroom break before you had to be back on the road.
Come to think of it even as a local I don't think I ever visited Disneyland by transit even once. Someone always had a car, or we'd get dropped off by someone's parents or something.
posted by loquacious at 9:48 AM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I'm a life long bus rider and the thought of going from Santa Monica to Anaheim on transit sounds exhausting. I think we might even be underestimating how long it would take with transfers, because you might even be crossing 3+ transit systems in the process, and the bus service in OC has always sucked and has apparently only gotten worse lately, while LA's MTA has improved a lot with all the new subways and light rail.
I used to have some bus commutes to work that exceeded 2+ hours each way and god forbid you miss a transfer because it might add 30-60 minutes to it.
This also reminds me of the trope and meme of SoCal locals having friends or family visit from out of state and having totally impossible ideas about all the things they'd like to see or do in a single day or weekend. Stuff like go to the beach, then Disneyland, and then Hollywood and then go to Griffith Observatory or a museum all in the same day and not being able to understand that this meant that they might be spending 90% of their day in a car stuck in freeway traffic, and if they were really lucky they might be able to spend 10 minutes at each stop for a bathroom break before you had to be back on the road.
Come to think of it even as a local I don't think I ever visited Disneyland by transit even once. Someone always had a car, or we'd get dropped off by someone's parents or something.
posted by loquacious at 9:48 AM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Oh, like a pro sports stadium partially paid for with tax dollars? I hear ya.
And there is a reason why that's virtually impossible to pull off in Los Angeles, and not much easier in Orange County. Although Arte got somewhat of a sweetheart deal when he officially purchased the land around Angel Stadium (also in Anaheim).
Angel Stadium effectively has it's own train stop, which is extremely against the rules (no public transit money to solely help a private business) up in Los Angeles, so I guess that's one form of tax payer support that OC gets but LA does not.
posted by sideshow at 11:25 AM on January 15, 2021
And there is a reason why that's virtually impossible to pull off in Los Angeles, and not much easier in Orange County. Although Arte got somewhat of a sweetheart deal when he officially purchased the land around Angel Stadium (also in Anaheim).
Angel Stadium effectively has it's own train stop, which is extremely against the rules (no public transit money to solely help a private business) up in Los Angeles, so I guess that's one form of tax payer support that OC gets but LA does not.
posted by sideshow at 11:25 AM on January 15, 2021
I couldn't drive and didn't think to just get a cab, so I ended up taking a series of buses and trains from central LA at an ungodly hour in the morning.
If you actually meant "Downtown" instead of "Central", the Metro 460 would have gotten you directly there without any transfers in about 90 mins.
posted by sideshow at 11:31 AM on January 15, 2021
If you actually meant "Downtown" instead of "Central", the Metro 460 would have gotten you directly there without any transfers in about 90 mins.
posted by sideshow at 11:31 AM on January 15, 2021
Yeah, I'm a life long bus rider and the thought of going from Santa Monica to Anaheim on transit sounds exhausting.
You've got the stupid PCH there. Take away one lane and you have plenty of room for a transit line to make that short trip.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:59 AM on January 15, 2021
You've got the stupid PCH there. Take away one lane and you have plenty of room for a transit line to make that short trip.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:59 AM on January 15, 2021
And of course, Disney wants you to be in its transportation ecosystem and staying at its hotels. If you take a bus from the airport, you don't have a car. If you don't have a car, it's much easier to stay on property for the whole trip.
The Disney experts that I have seen suggest that while this was the true impetus for the creation of Magical Express, the now ubiquitousness of Uber/Lyft means people now can easily leave the Disney bubble without renting a car.
posted by mmascolino at 12:00 PM on January 15, 2021
The Disney experts that I have seen suggest that while this was the true impetus for the creation of Magical Express, the now ubiquitousness of Uber/Lyft means people now can easily leave the Disney bubble without renting a car.
posted by mmascolino at 12:00 PM on January 15, 2021
You've got the stupid PCH there. Take away one lane and you have plenty of room for a transit line to make that short trip.
It's not really a short trip from Santa Monica to Anaheim, and it's also not the most direct route since there's Palo Verde Point and Long Beach Harbor and a whole bunch of crowded beach towns with high traffic going on and a number of points where there's only one lane to take away.
No one I knew ever took PCH for long distance traveling unless they're just cruising and not in a hurry. The PCH route through LA County to Orange County is a huge clusterfuck and a slog. I've cruised it with friends before all the way from Ventura and Malibu to south OC and it can take like 4-5+ hours even with average traffic.
The fastest transit way from Santa Monica to Anaheim might be a well timed MTA bus and hopping on Amtrak or the commuter train from LA directly to Santa Ana or Anaheim and then catching an OC bus to Disneyland, but there is the MTA intercity runs or taking the rail to Long Beach and over to Anaheim.
Ugh I'm having PTSD flashbacks to being stuck in someone's old beater of a car with no AC in 100+ F heat in totally gridlocked traffic where it probably adds 30+ F to the heat from all the overheating cars and smoking hot asphalt and concrete.
LA/OC is fucking insane and I don't miss it.
posted by loquacious at 2:13 PM on January 15, 2021
It's not really a short trip from Santa Monica to Anaheim, and it's also not the most direct route since there's Palo Verde Point and Long Beach Harbor and a whole bunch of crowded beach towns with high traffic going on and a number of points where there's only one lane to take away.
No one I knew ever took PCH for long distance traveling unless they're just cruising and not in a hurry. The PCH route through LA County to Orange County is a huge clusterfuck and a slog. I've cruised it with friends before all the way from Ventura and Malibu to south OC and it can take like 4-5+ hours even with average traffic.
The fastest transit way from Santa Monica to Anaheim might be a well timed MTA bus and hopping on Amtrak or the commuter train from LA directly to Santa Ana or Anaheim and then catching an OC bus to Disneyland, but there is the MTA intercity runs or taking the rail to Long Beach and over to Anaheim.
Ugh I'm having PTSD flashbacks to being stuck in someone's old beater of a car with no AC in 100+ F heat in totally gridlocked traffic where it probably adds 30+ F to the heat from all the overheating cars and smoking hot asphalt and concrete.
LA/OC is fucking insane and I don't miss it.
posted by loquacious at 2:13 PM on January 15, 2021
You've got the stupid PCH there. Take away one lane and you have plenty of room for a transit line to make that short trip.
Besides going almost 90 degrees in the wrong direction, the part of PCH in Santa Monica wouldn't get you half way there if it did happen to go East vs mostly South like it does in real life.
Unless you consider the Palos Verdes/Torrence part still "real" PCH. At that point, might as well just use the 10/5 as your hypothetical, since those are the direct roads anyway, and guess what, that's how somebody would get from Santa Monica to Anaheim right now.
posted by sideshow at 2:29 PM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Besides going almost 90 degrees in the wrong direction, the part of PCH in Santa Monica wouldn't get you half way there if it did happen to go East vs mostly South like it does in real life.
Unless you consider the Palos Verdes/Torrence part still "real" PCH. At that point, might as well just use the 10/5 as your hypothetical, since those are the direct roads anyway, and guess what, that's how somebody would get from Santa Monica to Anaheim right now.
posted by sideshow at 2:29 PM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Disney's Aulani is someplace I really want to visit because of the care that Joe Rohde put into it. He was raised in Hawaii - more details on that and his work on Aulani here.
posted by kimberussell at 3:58 PM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by kimberussell at 3:58 PM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
. The seamless "Disney bubble" for Orlando visits might be gone forever, and say what you like about the cost and the corporateness, but if you're looking for a really easy vacation, it doesn't get easier than checking your bags at your home airport and having them turn up in your hotel room later that day, and not having to arrange your transportation because it's all already taken care of for you.
It's funny, because that's almost exactly why I have always avoided the Magic Express.
I feel like collecting luggage, renting a car and driving to the park allows me to kind of ease my way into Disney.
I don't think I could go straight from a crowded plane to a Disney bus. You spend enough time on them when you're at the park!
posted by madajb at 4:26 PM on January 15, 2021
It's funny, because that's almost exactly why I have always avoided the Magic Express.
I feel like collecting luggage, renting a car and driving to the park allows me to kind of ease my way into Disney.
I don't think I could go straight from a crowded plane to a Disney bus. You spend enough time on them when you're at the park!
posted by madajb at 4:26 PM on January 15, 2021
The Disney experts that I have seen suggest that while this was the true impetus for the creation of Magical Express, the now ubiquitousness of Uber/Lyft means people now can easily leave the Disney bubble without renting a car.
Most of the onsite resorts don't let you into the parking lot without a room or a dining reservation.
Kind of surprising Disney lets ride-share on the property without taking a cut.
posted by madajb at 4:29 PM on January 15, 2021
Most of the onsite resorts don't let you into the parking lot without a room or a dining reservation.
Kind of surprising Disney lets ride-share on the property without taking a cut.
posted by madajb at 4:29 PM on January 15, 2021
Kimberussell, Aulani is really neat! It's a very different experience though - while there was some cool stuff to do and experience there, we used it more like a normal hotel on vacation. There's too many amazing things nearby to spend all your time lazing on the beach. They did have a really cool art tour, snorkeling aquarium, and I am embarrassed by how much of my vacation time I spent in the lazy river, so I hope you get there at some point!
posted by bowtiesarecool at 5:16 PM on January 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by bowtiesarecool at 5:16 PM on January 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
I was just thinking about Disney today, wondering what they'll do about Trump in the Hall of Presidents and will it say he's been impeached twice when I found this story in The Hill.
posted by Avalow at 10:51 PM on January 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Avalow at 10:51 PM on January 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
The Disney park blogger rumor mill suggests that the Hall may be repurposed into a full-time Muppet attraction. They discontinued the Muppet live show at the Hall last year, and official Muppet social media was teasing something.
It would fit the Disney playbook to avoid controversy by basically de-politicizing the Hall as much as possible while also shitcanning as few animatronics as possible. ("Many people are saying" that the Hillary animatronic was literally reskinned into the Trump one when the election didn't go the way the Mouse clearly expected.)
So I envision a sort of Muppet version of American history with a few recognizable, uncontroversial, and likely dead Presidentamatronics still involved, reacting exasperatedly to Muppet antics a la the humans of the Muppet movies. I'm not kidding.
We can also expect Pirates, Splash Mountain, and the like to suddenly contain more mutton-chopped old guys standing ramrod straight. On that one, I might be kidding.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 1:29 AM on January 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
It would fit the Disney playbook to avoid controversy by basically de-politicizing the Hall as much as possible while also shitcanning as few animatronics as possible. ("Many people are saying" that the Hillary animatronic was literally reskinned into the Trump one when the election didn't go the way the Mouse clearly expected.)
So I envision a sort of Muppet version of American history with a few recognizable, uncontroversial, and likely dead Presidentamatronics still involved, reacting exasperatedly to Muppet antics a la the humans of the Muppet movies. I'm not kidding.
We can also expect Pirates, Splash Mountain, and the like to suddenly contain more mutton-chopped old guys standing ramrod straight. On that one, I might be kidding.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 1:29 AM on January 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
Well one of the animatronics in Spaceship Earth in EPCOT is a repurposed William Howard Taft, so why not?
(He’s the Egyptian guy holding the scroll for the Pharoah in case you were wondering.)
posted by Guernsey Halleck at 2:51 AM on January 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
(He’s the Egyptian guy holding the scroll for the Pharoah in case you were wondering.)
posted by Guernsey Halleck at 2:51 AM on January 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
I think a Muppets show where Hall of Presidents is would be a lot of fun - I wish Disney would do more with the Muppets in the parks.
We can also expect Pirates, Splash Mountain, and the like to suddenly contain more mutton-chopped old guys standing ramrod straight.
I'd like to see the Trump animatronic dunked into the well in Pirates.
posted by kimberussell at 9:07 AM on January 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
We can also expect Pirates, Splash Mountain, and the like to suddenly contain more mutton-chopped old guys standing ramrod straight.
I'd like to see the Trump animatronic dunked into the well in Pirates.
posted by kimberussell at 9:07 AM on January 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
I would be so here for a Muppets takeover. The partially outdoor show they were doing in that area was such a delight to stumble across and I honestly don't remember the last time I sat through the Hall of Presidents. (Don't touch my precious Carousel of Progress, though. I need that hokey song to keep living on.)
posted by bowtiesarecool at 9:50 AM on January 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by bowtiesarecool at 9:50 AM on January 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
LA Times: Disneyland killed its annual pass program. Why, and what comes next?
posted by chrchr at 7:39 PM on January 16, 2021
posted by chrchr at 7:39 PM on January 16, 2021
Unless you consider the Palos Verdes/Torrence part still "real" PCH. At that point, might as well just use the 10/5 as your hypothetical, since those are the direct roads anyway, and guess what, that's how somebody would get from Santa Monica to Anaheim right now.
Well since we are talking transit, then a more direct route following north south close to the beach makes more sense than following the existing freeways which pass through nothing of interest to a transit rider (in my opinion). And loquacious isn't kidding - with the current routes it's a 3 hour transit ride.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:46 PM on January 16, 2021
Well since we are talking transit, then a more direct route following north south close to the beach makes more sense than following the existing freeways which pass through nothing of interest to a transit rider (in my opinion). And loquacious isn't kidding - with the current routes it's a 3 hour transit ride.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:46 PM on January 16, 2021
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
As an aside, Brightline did get the benefit of being able to issue tax exempt bonds for their project, but the parent railroad is the only entity on the hook for repayment.
posted by wierdo at 5:00 AM on January 15, 2021