"Now we're talking about memorization, and the trick looks like this"

February 1, 2021 4:13 PM

Penn & Teller's famous "Nail Gun" trick, as performed on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, and then years later on Penn & Teller: Fool Us, synced up for your amazement. [single link YouTube]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta (42 comments total)

It's very cool to see it synced like that. Makes it more evident that he doesn't need to memorize one super long sequence but rather memorize the monologue and smaller nail gun sequences. Say some words, nail, nail, air, nail, more words, air, air, nail, etc.

But that is so nerve-wracking to watch...
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 4:44 PM on February 1, 2021 [1 favorite]

I would have thought the gun was still gimmicked, but that's amazing to watch them do that.
posted by drewbage1847 at 4:54 PM on February 1, 2021 [4 favorites]

I would be surprised if the nail gun didn't have some kind of visual or other indicator of nails in the chamber for him to abort or adjust the trick if he messes up. I'd also be surprised if there weren't cues within the memorized patter that remind him of what the current/next sequence is.

Grifters, hucksters and magicians all seem best at their work when they can deliver a script so consistently.
posted by BrotherCaine at 5:01 PM on February 1, 2021 [3 favorites]

And musicians, actors, and performers of all sorts... That's kind of the point. But it was especially fun to see it demonstrated this way - thanks for the post.
posted by PhineasGage at 5:04 PM on February 1, 2021 [3 favorites]

The comments at YT are interesting. Apparently P and T are into super safe magic and the commenters mostly think the nail gun is harmless and the nails are coming from somewhere else.
posted by Fukiyama at 5:09 PM on February 1, 2021 [2 favorites]

But on the other hand P&T are into telling the audience exactly how they do a trick and still making an amazing performance. One of my favourite moments watching P&T live was a beautiful act that was preceded only with, "this next one is done with some thread."
posted by WaylandSmith at 5:14 PM on February 1, 2021 [11 favorites]

Yes, Penn spells out the whole thing at the end: he explicitly says that memorizations acts are lies and that performing dangerous tricks is morally wrong.
posted by neroli at 5:15 PM on February 1, 2021 [22 favorites]

One of my favorite Penn and Teller tricks is the find your card on the beach gag (starts at about 2:30) because it was the first time that I realized street magic could be performance art, it didn't just have to be close up tricks and gimmicked props. Like the nail gun, they tell you exactly what they did or didn't do (maybe??) and I'm still impressed.

"The only secret of magic is that I'm willing to work harder on it than you think it's worth."
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 5:22 PM on February 1, 2021 [12 favorites]

Don't watch the pattern of nails.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:28 PM on February 1, 2021 [1 favorite]

Well, one thing I did not see him do was hold his hand near the metal layer under the board while he was firing at his hand. And one way to do this safely would be to rig up some kind of enabling mechanism which must be engaged for a nail to be advanced to the firing position. So my theory is that there is some kind of proximity-based control, perhaps related to whatever that stage magician's misdirection-seeming bit about the board being on metal, so the nails won't go in so far, was really about. (Although I'm sure they do phony misdirection things too sometimes; that could be a red herring.)
posted by thelonius at 5:30 PM on February 1, 2021 [3 favorites]

If you slow it down, on the left side (the newer one), on the close up, you can see it happen
posted by RustyBrooks at 5:31 PM on February 1, 2021

The pattern, order, and appearance of nails is the same in both panels. The "air gun" is really a magnet pulling the same nails out of the board. It never fires anything.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:33 PM on February 1, 2021 [24 favorites]

Best YT comment notes that the real magic here was that many nails fired without the damned thing jamming up.
posted by jquinby at 5:34 PM on February 1, 2021 [29 favorites]

There's also an air compressor on stage but it never runs, right?
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:24 PM on February 1, 2021 [3 favorites]

There's also an air compressor on stage but it never runs, right?

That isn't itself suspicious, if they had it filled up before you could probably shoot that number nails without it refilling. But anyway, like the nailgun it's a non-functioning prop
posted by RustyBrooks at 6:32 PM on February 1, 2021 [3 favorites]

That isn't itself suspicious, if they had it filled up before you could probably shoot that number nails without it refilling.

My compressor is twice that size and it doesn't go anywhere near that long with a framing nailer without cycling. Maybe with a finish gun or stapler, but not a framing gun.

The nails are 100% coming UP from the board. I don't even think it's possible to set up a framing gun to leave that much nail sticking up from a board. The max adjustment is more like +3/4".
posted by jwest at 7:47 PM on February 1, 2021 [6 favorites]

My favorite is their Cup-And-Balls routine.

https://youtu.be/8osRaFTtgHo

The "transparent" version is much more impressive to me, because you can see the large number of right-in-front-of-you-passes.
posted by ®@ at 8:01 PM on February 1, 2021 [4 favorites]

But on the other hand P&T are into telling the audience exactly how they do a trick and still making an amazing performance. One of my favourite moments watching P&T live was a beautiful act that was preceded only with, "this next one is done with some thread."

This episode of This American Life has a great segment with Teller talking about developing that trick.
posted by calamari kid at 8:03 PM on February 1, 2021 [9 favorites]

Another point of evidence for the nails coming up from the board is that if the table was metal as claimed, and that was the reason the nails were sticking up instead of flush, I'm almost certain that the metal nail hitting the metal table would make a different sound than that. Probably something much more resonant and ping-y.
posted by Aleyn at 8:04 PM on February 1, 2021 [2 favorites]

I like how there are a bunch of explanations for how he didn't have to memorize the pattern (at least one of which is probably true) even though the videos demonstrate that he did thoroughly, perfectly memorize a pattern. (Or it could have been written on the board -- they never showed it to us.)
posted by paper chromatographologist at 8:23 PM on February 1, 2021 [7 favorites]

Would pulling nails out of the belt actually do what is supposedly happening? I would expect each time you fire it would push the magazine down to the next nail.
posted by ckape at 8:36 PM on February 1, 2021 [2 favorites]

Another point of evidence for the nails coming up from the board is that if the table was metal as claimed, and that was the reason the nails were sticking up instead of flush, I'm almost certain that the metal nail hitting the metal table would make a different sound than that. Probably something much more resonant and ping-y.

Exactly. Anyone who has used a nail gun and hit metal, whether it's another nail or a plate, can tell you the nail doesn't just 'ping', it creates a big messy, folded over thing that you then have to step away and pull out with a hammer or wrecking bar. Not good for jobsite efficiency.
posted by jwest at 8:37 PM on February 1, 2021 [2 favorites]

The pattern, order, and appearance of nails is the same in both panels. The "air gun" is really a magnet pulling the same nails out of the board. It never fires anything.

Ooh, that's clever!

Personally, I never understood the idea that learning the trick makes it less interesting. Different strokes for different folks, but for me, I think magic tricks are neat, but what I think is really neat is how they're done.
posted by Bugbread at 9:27 PM on February 1, 2021 [16 favorites]

Misdirection...

It's all about the memorization.
posted by Windopaene at 9:56 PM on February 1, 2021 [3 favorites]

I always think the quality of Penn's dialogue is under-appreciated in their performances. He is doing the work of a top of the line researcher, journalist, editor all in one. There is always an apparent truth being told. But then the already polished narrative is used as a structure to precisely choreograph each action, misdirection and gag. Then, if you take apart the whole performance: watch it over and over again - there is a complementary truth hidden within.

For the nail gun trick, the inner truth seems to be that you can come right out and tell people what an unsafe-looking activity is actually low risk - and how it would be crazy for things to be planned otherwise. But they still won't believe you!
posted by rongorongo at 12:43 AM on February 2, 2021 [6 favorites]

One of my favourite moments watching P&T live was a beautiful act that was preceded only with, "this next one is done with some thread."

There’s an interesting backstory to this one that Penn didn’t want to use it in the show - too artsy, “too Cirque du Soleil” - until they came up with the idea of that up-front reveal (which actually makes the illusion more impressive).
posted by atoxyl at 2:01 AM on February 2, 2021 [1 favorite]

(in at least one version I’ve seen, Penn unceremoniously cuts the thread at the end which is presumably playing off of this stylistic tension)
posted by atoxyl at 2:05 AM on February 2, 2021 [1 favorite]

The best thing about that nail gun act, in both versions, is the little shrug from Teller when Penn loses track of the nails. "Hey, don't ask me."
posted by chavenet at 2:07 AM on February 2, 2021 [12 favorites]

Teller's silent communication is always the best part of their acts, for me.
posted by Quasirandom at 7:28 AM on February 2, 2021 [9 favorites]

I’ve heard Penn use that line about how dangerous tricks are wrong because the audience is complicit in the danger before. It might have come from Houdini originally. There is a profound moral truth there that reminds me of that last shot of the Wolf of Wallstreet, the camera turned on the audience, rapt with attention.
posted by macrael at 8:14 AM on February 2, 2021 [3 favorites]

I want to second the podcast about developing the ball and thread trick. Here's the red ball trick, performed. It's good but not my favorite of Teller's work. The podcast is amazing though. Penn talks in great detail about what makes a good trick for their act. Sure it's the magic, but it's also the story telling and the gags and the balance of apparent risk and professional, repeatable safe magic. Penn has a very clear idea what makes a good Penn and Teller act and it took a long, long time to get this one to that point.

The funniest part of the podcast is that Penn really is as big an asshole as his stage persona. He talks at great length about how he hated this trick. That he respected Teller for trying to develop it, and offered support where he could (over years of develpoment) but was very direct and frank about why he hated the trick. It's not the kind of thing you say on a podcast if you gave a fuck about not hurting your performance partner's feelings. It seems particularly cruel given the silent innocence of Teller's act; all the way to the gag at the end where Penn kicks the puppy ball off the stage.

But they've been working together for 45 years, so presumably they've figured each other out. They sure do put on a hell of a show. I hope I get to catch it live again before their inevitable retirement.
posted by Nelson at 8:34 AM on February 2, 2021 [4 favorites]

It's not the kind of thing you say on a podcast if you gave a fuck about not hurting your performance partner's feelings.

It didn’t really come off that way to me. There’s a part where they read (or paraphrase?) from an email Penn sent Teller about it and I thought he was pretty respectful and magnanimous in not wanting to definitely veto the piece, though I doubt either would ever actually go ahead with a trick without the other’s approval. It is funny though how serious he is about it not being his style of magic, when it seems like it really is Teller’s style. And it’s an interesting insight into how they work together, given that they are well known to be “cordial but not close” outside of that work.
posted by atoxyl at 5:09 PM on February 2, 2021 [3 favorites]

Yeah, I totally came away with the opposite reaction. I've always thought that Penn was a jerk, so I was surprised to hear so much warmth towards Teller. This passage:

He's not saying this outright, but it's implicit-- this is beautiful. This is mystifying. This is entertaining. People will love it. It's really important to me. All those five things are true. So it's very, very uncomfortable.

I never really pictured Penn as someone who would be made so uncomfortable just thinking about hurting Teller's feelings.
posted by Bugbread at 5:53 PM on February 2, 2021 [2 favorites]

1985 - Penn & Teller - YouTube (youtube.com)

Teller Reveals His Secrets

More trouble than the trick was worth? To you, probably. But not to magicians.

posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:01 PM on February 2, 2021 [2 favorites]

I had a patient who was a retired magician. (He had once been a lawyer but didn't like practicing law.) He was getting on in years and had a little bit of a tremor and wasn't as mentally sharp as he once was. Always carried a deck of cards and always wanted to show me a trick. He would start doing the trick and I would think "He's not going to be able to pull this off" but, of course, he always did pull it off. The tremor and the forgetfulness were a ruse and I fell for it about a half dozen times. He is no longer with us, alas.
posted by neuron at 9:44 PM on February 2, 2021 [11 favorites]

With regards to the nail gun trick, given our theory about how it is done - it is fascinating to see that Penn perform it with exactly the consistency that would be necessary if it were to be a live nail gun and a precise show of memory. That consistency will take a massive effort - and will be noticed by nobody at all apart from somebody who takes the trouble to compare the performances - as done here. And by Teller, of course!

I want to second the podcast about developing the ball and thread trick. Here's the red ball trick, performed.
I note that the podcast goes on to talk about David Copperfied's vanishing of the statue of liberty performed back in the 1980s. They discuss a really interesting theory about how that was done - but also mention Copperfield insistence that he deliberately employed people to spread false theories about the trick's mechanism at the time. (So a big hello to Penn and Teller if you are among us).
posted by rongorongo at 11:08 PM on February 2, 2021 [2 favorites]

The segment on the David Copperfield vanishing trick was surprising to me for a few reasons.

1. It was presented as something that has been forgotten by the people who were old enough to have experienced it first-hand, and only people who were into magic remember it.

Really? I was never big into magic -- not any more than any other random kid -- but I totally remember the David Copperfield Statue of Liberty trick. I just figured everyone my age did.

2. It was done by slowly rotating the stage.

I really enjoy trying to figure out magic tricks. However, I am terrible at it. I'll come up with some kind of possible solution to how a trick was done, and then I'll go on YouTube and see the exact same trick and a tutorial of how to do it, and I'm always wrong. But the rotating stage trick is how I always imagined the Statue of Liberty disappearance was done. I can't believe I actually figured out a trick correctly for once!
posted by Bugbread at 11:56 PM on February 2, 2021 [5 favorites]

That consistency will take a massive effort - and will be noticed by nobody at all apart from somebody who takes the trouble to compare the performances - as done here. And by Teller, of course!

One thing Teller points out (I think) in that podcast is that a unique constraint of magic as an art form is that the execution has to be nearly perfect or it’s nothing. I imagine many of their tricks are performed with this level of consistency because that’s part of what it is to be a professional stage magician.
posted by atoxyl at 12:12 AM on February 3, 2021 [4 favorites]

Teller talking about the ball trick is the source of one of my favorite quotes ("Sometimes magic is just someone spending more time on something than anyone else might reasonably expect")
posted by ckape at 6:08 AM on February 3, 2021 [4 favorites]

Metafilter: someone spending more time on something than anyone else might reasonably expect.
posted by jquinby at 7:16 AM on February 3, 2021 [9 favorites]

(It looks like Disney has been up to the same sort of trick!)
posted by rongorongo at 10:30 AM on February 7, 2021

I've seen that about Disney before. Hand drawn animation is so labor-intensive that it was not uncommon to reuse basic sketches. Timing out natural looking movements is a lot of work. I recall similar things being done with dance scenes in Sleeping Beauty and Snow White but I might be mixing up which movies/scenes they were reusing.
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 3:35 PM on February 7, 2021