Life in a Supertall Tower: Leaks, Creaks, Breaks
February 3, 2021 5:31 PM Subscribe
432 Park, one of the wealthiest addresses in the world, faces some significant design problems Residents of the exclusive tower are now at odds with the developers, and each other, making clear that even multimillion-dollar price tags do not guarantee problem-free living. The claims include millions of dollars of water damage from plumbing and mechanical issues; frequent elevator malfunctions; and walls that creak like the galley of a ship — all of which may be connected to the building’s main selling point: its immense height.
HA HA!
posted by BlueHorse at 5:41 PM on February 3, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by BlueHorse at 5:41 PM on February 3, 2021 [15 favorites]
From an earlier article linked in this one:
But 432 Park also has an increasingly common feature in these new towers: swaths of unoccupied space. About a quarter of its 88 floors will have no homes because they are filled with structural and mechanical equipment.posted by octothorpe at 5:56 PM on February 3, 2021 [22 favorites]
The building and nearby towers are able to push high into the sky because of a loophole in the city’s labyrinthine zoning laws. Floors reserved for structural and mechanical equipment, no matter how much, do not count against a building’s maximum size under the laws, so developers explicitly use them to make buildings far higher than would otherwise be permitted.
Is there anything to say about this topic beyond savory delicious schadenfreude?
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:58 PM on February 3, 2021 [23 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:58 PM on February 3, 2021 [23 favorites]
The thing that caught my attention in this article is how few households this building is made to hold:
The finalized plans called for 147 apartments in total: 122 luxury condominium units of one to six bedrooms between floors 34 and 96, and 25 studio units on floors 28 and 29.posted by aneel at 6:00 PM on February 3, 2021 [9 favorites]
I mean, if you buy a Bugatti, it's going to be awesome but it's also going to spend a ton of time at the mechanic. When you buy a french chateau it's going to be expensive as hell to maintain and come with all sorts of hassles. Ultra luxuries aren't practical.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:05 PM on February 3, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:05 PM on February 3, 2021 [12 favorites]
*plays the saddest song on the tiniest violin*
posted by SansPoint at 6:07 PM on February 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 6:07 PM on February 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
Habitants aside I’ve always liked look of these new super tall and thin buildings. It’s pretty fresh and, I think, a nice addition to NYCs skyline. It’s really no surprise that they would sway like crazy though... that the engineers didn’t account for such an obvious outcome makes one wonder what else they didn’t account for.
posted by TurnKey at 6:08 PM on February 3, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by TurnKey at 6:08 PM on February 3, 2021 [18 favorites]
Could be repurposed as a supermax for Cheeto and his disciples
posted by aeshnid at 6:11 PM on February 3, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by aeshnid at 6:11 PM on February 3, 2021 [10 favorites]
I think New York Real Estate Investment is going to merge with New York Art Investment and the whole city will be uninhabitable sculptures.
posted by nickggully at 6:16 PM on February 3, 2021 [32 favorites]
posted by nickggully at 6:16 PM on February 3, 2021 [32 favorites]
Ripped off by a New York real estate developer?
Who'd have thought.
posted by flabdablet at 6:17 PM on February 3, 2021 [24 favorites]
Who'd have thought.
posted by flabdablet at 6:17 PM on February 3, 2021 [24 favorites]
Just build some other tall skinny towers nearby and throw some flying buttresses in between. Problem solved!
...hang on, let me fill out this patent application real quick...
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:27 PM on February 3, 2021 [16 favorites]
...hang on, let me fill out this patent application real quick...
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:27 PM on February 3, 2021 [16 favorites]
This was so savory I had to go buy a couple of beers before reading.
Seriously.
posted by aramaic at 6:36 PM on February 3, 2021 [13 favorites]
Seriously.
posted by aramaic at 6:36 PM on February 3, 2021 [13 favorites]
Some residents also railed against surging fees at the building’s private restaurant, overseen by the Michelin-star chef, Shaun Hergatt. When the building opened in late 2015, homeowners were required to spend $1,200 a year on the service; in 2021, that requirement jumps to $15,000, despite limited hours of operation because of the pandemic. And breakfast is no longer free.
Holy shit. I am laughing out loud.
posted by NoMich at 6:44 PM on February 3, 2021 [90 favorites]
Holy shit. I am laughing out loud.
posted by NoMich at 6:44 PM on February 3, 2021 [90 favorites]
“They put me in a freight elevator surrounded by steel plates and plywood, with a hard-hat operator,” she said. “That’s how I went up to my hoity-toity apartment before closing.”
my god, how did she survive. plywood
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 6:45 PM on February 3, 2021 [59 favorites]
my god, how did she survive. plywood
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 6:45 PM on February 3, 2021 [59 favorites]
147 apartments in total: 122 luxury condominium units of one to six bedrooms between floors 34 and 96, and 25 studio units on floors 28 and 29.
Are those the bunks where the indentured servants get to rest between shifts on deck?
posted by Dashy at 6:46 PM on February 3, 2021 [11 favorites]
Are those the bunks where the indentured servants get to rest between shifts on deck?
posted by Dashy at 6:46 PM on February 3, 2021 [11 favorites]
You know what?....
If the city finally got off its ass and charged a proper occupancy tax on these kinds of places, I wouldn't have a problem. The existence of buildings for rich shits isn't a problem in and of itself - it's the fact that they don't pay into the communities in which they live. Even the part-timers - oh, okay, you love New York so much you just HAD to get an apartment for the two months a year you're here? chip in a little to support that city you say you love.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:47 PM on February 3, 2021 [73 favorites]
If the city finally got off its ass and charged a proper occupancy tax on these kinds of places, I wouldn't have a problem. The existence of buildings for rich shits isn't a problem in and of itself - it's the fact that they don't pay into the communities in which they live. Even the part-timers - oh, okay, you love New York so much you just HAD to get an apartment for the two months a year you're here? chip in a little to support that city you say you love.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:47 PM on February 3, 2021 [73 favorites]
chip in a little to support that city you say you love.
"I didn't get rich by supporting people, I got rich by stepping on people."
posted by aramaic at 6:49 PM on February 3, 2021 [20 favorites]
"I didn't get rich by supporting people, I got rich by stepping on people."
posted by aramaic at 6:49 PM on February 3, 2021 [20 favorites]
I had a client who was interested in buying one of these apartments - and my advice was not to.
The lifts seemed totally inadequate for the size of the building - and with a skinny tower, the developer is tempted to skimp on the size of the lift, so any maintenance ends up being a nightmare, because it all has to go up bit by bit.
And you better be happy to furnish everything with Ikea or small items for the same reason.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 6:51 PM on February 3, 2021 [13 favorites]
The lifts seemed totally inadequate for the size of the building - and with a skinny tower, the developer is tempted to skimp on the size of the lift, so any maintenance ends up being a nightmare, because it all has to go up bit by bit.
And you better be happy to furnish everything with Ikea or small items for the same reason.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 6:51 PM on February 3, 2021 [13 favorites]
Just looks wrong, it's not the height, but the thinness, that thing must want to sing, hum, buzz, even the mass dampers sound very non-standard. Yes it's a racing car of a building.
"my god, how did she survive. plywood"
I think when she talks about steel plates she's saying, probably without understanding, that she was on an elevator car platform, rather than in a lift. I used to do lift shaft post-construction cleanup (just me, all my tools and a liftman) and a bare platform is a scary thing, and my buildings were only 30 levels.
posted by unearthed at 6:53 PM on February 3, 2021 [17 favorites]
"my god, how did she survive. plywood"
I think when she talks about steel plates she's saying, probably without understanding, that she was on an elevator car platform, rather than in a lift. I used to do lift shaft post-construction cleanup (just me, all my tools and a liftman) and a bare platform is a scary thing, and my buildings were only 30 levels.
posted by unearthed at 6:53 PM on February 3, 2021 [17 favorites]
Wind sway can cause the cables in the elevator shaft to slap aroundI feel like a bad person for having a picture in my head of someone trapped in a lift with the gigantic sound of a Primus bass solo going off above them
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 6:58 PM on February 3, 2021 [48 favorites]
As foretold on Law & Order CI...
Or at least that’s how I’m imagining it!
posted by ec2y at 7:05 PM on February 3, 2021
Or at least that’s how I’m imagining it!
posted by ec2y at 7:05 PM on February 3, 2021
those studios on 28 & 29 were indeed sold as housing for domestic staff.
and fun fact -- there was an architect named Peter Scarano who used the same "mechanical floor" switcheroo out in Brooklyn and Queens, resulting in easily-identifiable and outsized-compared-to-their-context modern condo buildings.
But whereas Peter Scarano lost his license for his shady practices, Rafael Viñoly is still an award-winning and licensed starchitect (despite also being on the Toxic Men in Architecture google doc).
Proving once again that if you're going to crime, crime bigly and in Manhattan and as a man.
posted by turbowombat at 7:11 PM on February 3, 2021 [36 favorites]
and fun fact -- there was an architect named Peter Scarano who used the same "mechanical floor" switcheroo out in Brooklyn and Queens, resulting in easily-identifiable and outsized-compared-to-their-context modern condo buildings.
But whereas Peter Scarano lost his license for his shady practices, Rafael Viñoly is still an award-winning and licensed starchitect (despite also being on the Toxic Men in Architecture google doc).
Proving once again that if you're going to crime, crime bigly and in Manhattan and as a man.
posted by turbowombat at 7:11 PM on February 3, 2021 [36 favorites]
I think when she talks about steel plates she's saying, probably without understanding, that she was on an elevator car platform, rather than in a lift.
“They put me in a freight elevator surrounded by steel plates and plywood, with a hard-hat operator,”
She's complaining about having to use the freight elevator. The office skyrise I'm in has a freight elevator that is clad in diamond-plate, since every bangs into the walls.
posted by Gorgik at 7:18 PM on February 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
“They put me in a freight elevator surrounded by steel plates and plywood, with a hard-hat operator,”
She's complaining about having to use the freight elevator. The office skyrise I'm in has a freight elevator that is clad in diamond-plate, since every bangs into the walls.
posted by Gorgik at 7:18 PM on February 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
Just build some other tall skinny towers nearby and throw some flying buttresses in between.
There's this friendly kid from the neighborhood who has this web-slinger thingy...
posted by bonehead at 7:21 PM on February 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
There's this friendly kid from the neighborhood who has this web-slinger thingy...
posted by bonehead at 7:21 PM on February 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
432 Park, one of the wealthiest addresses in the world, faces some significant design problems
You mean, aside from being hideous? Clearly its fundamental design flaws are being almost totally obscured by its superficial design flaws.
posted by tclark at 7:26 PM on February 3, 2021 [9 favorites]
You mean, aside from being hideous? Clearly its fundamental design flaws are being almost totally obscured by its superficial design flaws.
posted by tclark at 7:26 PM on February 3, 2021 [9 favorites]
I couldn't care less about the travails of those who might choose or could afford to live there...
posted by jim in austin at 7:38 PM on February 3, 2021
posted by jim in austin at 7:38 PM on February 3, 2021
I worked for a few years in a genuine early '70s sky scraper (Aon Center—formerly Standard Oil Building—in Chicago). I was only on the 37th floor, but the building was 70-something stories. My view was phenomenal, and we never had elevator issues when I was there. Overall, the building was nice, and the office was adequate but aging. Our lobby was jaw-droppingly beautiful, and we were connected to an ant-farm kind of tunnel system with all kinds of restaurants, coffee shops and stores. Very convenient in an artificial way. There was a lovely plaza outside at ground level full of trees, benches and such. So not a terrible place overall.
The water in the toilets would surge up and down during storms, and you could sometimes hear the building creak, all of which was mildly amusing. But the absolute worst part about it? You cannot open a god damned window. Not even a crack. In our building at least, there wasn't even a vent you could open to get some tiny bit of fresh air. Regulating air pressure is critical in super tall buildings. Sure, the HVAC was always circulating, but it felt like being in some artificial climate the entire time you were there. Breathing air out of ducts that were last cleaned who-knows-when. Recycled somehow, from somewhere. All that outgassing from new paint and carpeting... endlessly recycled. It's kind of gross when you think about it, even though it wasn't necessarily a BAD experience.
I cannot imagine living in a building where I can't open a window even a crack. I feel a little schadenfreude from this story, but these kinds of folks own multiple homes, and all this is minor crap for them.
posted by SoberHighland at 7:46 PM on February 3, 2021 [33 favorites]
The water in the toilets would surge up and down during storms, and you could sometimes hear the building creak, all of which was mildly amusing. But the absolute worst part about it? You cannot open a god damned window. Not even a crack. In our building at least, there wasn't even a vent you could open to get some tiny bit of fresh air. Regulating air pressure is critical in super tall buildings. Sure, the HVAC was always circulating, but it felt like being in some artificial climate the entire time you were there. Breathing air out of ducts that were last cleaned who-knows-when. Recycled somehow, from somewhere. All that outgassing from new paint and carpeting... endlessly recycled. It's kind of gross when you think about it, even though it wasn't necessarily a BAD experience.
I cannot imagine living in a building where I can't open a window even a crack. I feel a little schadenfreude from this story, but these kinds of folks own multiple homes, and all this is minor crap for them.
posted by SoberHighland at 7:46 PM on February 3, 2021 [33 favorites]
“Everybody hates each other here”
That made me smile.
posted by hypnogogue at 7:51 PM on February 3, 2021 [28 favorites]
That made me smile.
posted by hypnogogue at 7:51 PM on February 3, 2021 [28 favorites]
And you better be happy to furnish everything with Ikea or small items for the same reason.
And have nothing but condiments in your fridge.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:00 PM on February 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
And have nothing but condiments in your fridge.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:00 PM on February 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
I find it helpful to stop thinking of money and thinking of real resources. What if the thousands and thousand (millions? I don't have a sense of scale) of hours of labor by plumbers, electricians, engineers, architects, and so on, and the huge amount of actual physical materials, had been dedicated to building or repairing housing and other facilities for people who actually need it? And what if all the time spent by marketing firms, and now accountants and lawyers, had been spent doing something useful? What would the residents of the tower have lost? What would others have gained?
Now, how we achieve that transfer of resources is by moving money: tax the rich, and both transfer that money to the poor and build common resources: parks, schools, and so on.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:04 PM on February 3, 2021 [48 favorites]
Now, how we achieve that transfer of resources is by moving money: tax the rich, and both transfer that money to the poor and build common resources: parks, schools, and so on.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:04 PM on February 3, 2021 [48 favorites]
I mean, if you buy a Bugatti, it's going to be awesome but it's also going to spend a ton of time at the mechanic. When you buy a french chateau it's going to be expensive as hell to maintain and come with all sorts of hassles. Ultra luxuries aren't practical.
Yes, but if you buy a French chateau then you have a French chateau, not a buggy apartment building where you're isolated high above the city, alone and far from help, should anything go wrong with the lifts or the building in general. I don't want to live anywhere where I can't get up and down the stairs under my own power relatively quickly, I don't want to live anywhere where emergency services might be delayed by elevator problems and god knows I don't want to live anywhere which might be badly constructed enough that something would break off a hundred stories up. Also a French chateau isn't going to lose value, whereas any number of chaotic world events could mess up New York real estate as the climate crisis deepens.
If you need to repair a French chateau you get to hire cool specialized artisans who know how to repair things from 1750. if you need to repair a pricey high-rise apartment, you have to hire rip-off contractors. Let me tell you, if I somehow come into millions of dollars, it's the chateau all the way.
posted by Frowner at 8:06 PM on February 3, 2021 [61 favorites]
Yes, but if you buy a French chateau then you have a French chateau, not a buggy apartment building where you're isolated high above the city, alone and far from help, should anything go wrong with the lifts or the building in general. I don't want to live anywhere where I can't get up and down the stairs under my own power relatively quickly, I don't want to live anywhere where emergency services might be delayed by elevator problems and god knows I don't want to live anywhere which might be badly constructed enough that something would break off a hundred stories up. Also a French chateau isn't going to lose value, whereas any number of chaotic world events could mess up New York real estate as the climate crisis deepens.
If you need to repair a French chateau you get to hire cool specialized artisans who know how to repair things from 1750. if you need to repair a pricey high-rise apartment, you have to hire rip-off contractors. Let me tell you, if I somehow come into millions of dollars, it's the chateau all the way.
posted by Frowner at 8:06 PM on February 3, 2021 [61 favorites]
So, there's a city government agency that ensures the maintenance on the pendulums, supports, etc are all being done, right? Even as the building ownership collapses into lawsuits?
posted by Slackermagee at 8:10 PM on February 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Slackermagee at 8:10 PM on February 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
It’s also a lot harder to pour boiling oil on the besieging horde when you can’t open a window. Definitely new money.
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 8:13 PM on February 3, 2021 [56 favorites]
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 8:13 PM on February 3, 2021 [56 favorites]
It’s also a lot harder to pour boiling oil on the besieging horde when you can’t open a window. Definitely new money.
Whereas a French chateau is practically designed to fend off the peasantry.
I know from which one I would rather oppress the poor.
posted by madajb at 8:23 PM on February 3, 2021 [18 favorites]
Whereas a French chateau is practically designed to fend off the peasantry.
I know from which one I would rather oppress the poor.
posted by madajb at 8:23 PM on February 3, 2021 [18 favorites]
That tower looks like it was designed in Minecraft and I hate it and I'm very glad everybody who lives in it is miserable.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:40 PM on February 3, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:40 PM on February 3, 2021 [11 favorites]
122 luxury condominium units of one to six bedrooms between
I'm on the strata council (i.e., condo board) of my building, which has 144 units in only 24 floors. This is how the proletariat gets by.
posted by fatbird at 8:40 PM on February 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
I'm on the strata council (i.e., condo board) of my building, which has 144 units in only 24 floors. This is how the proletariat gets by.
posted by fatbird at 8:40 PM on February 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
Are there emergency stairs? I imagine being on an upper floor in a building like that with only elevators to get in and out and it makes me feel a little panicky. Not that my trashy small-town self would ever be allowed in that building.
posted by LindsayIrene at 9:27 PM on February 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by LindsayIrene at 9:27 PM on February 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
I WAS TOLD BY APPLECARE THAT THIS CONDO WAS A STORE OF VALUE
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:59 PM on February 3, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:59 PM on February 3, 2021 [9 favorites]
I once found a copy of the emergency procedures for the Stratosphere in Las Vegas. There are no stairs to the ground from the upper levels - instead there's a fireproof shelter at the top with outside ventilation. The theory is that, in a fire or other emergency, people can be herded into that until it's safe to use the elevators again.
posted by Hatashran at 10:32 PM on February 3, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by Hatashran at 10:32 PM on February 3, 2021 [18 favorites]
J.G. Ballard is cackling from his grave.
posted by myotahapea at 11:08 PM on February 3, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by myotahapea at 11:08 PM on February 3, 2021 [18 favorites]
So most of 2020 I lived in a 22-storey building in Sydney, NSW - basement parking, ground floor, 4 levels of parking, 16 residential - and 20 years ago I was on the management committee.
I REALLY REALLY like my building - lots of the good stuff - concrete, steel, bricks. An architect friend commented that the materials in that building would probably be sufficient to build 30 storeys to current standard
There is a tower in Australia, where the builder was too stingy to build the stairwells separate from the rubbish chute - so if there is an emergency where the rubbish catches fire - you can't use the stairwell. A client asked about that one, and I explained why I would never STAY in that building - let alone live there. The restaurant at the top is fine - the emergency access is down the stairwell unconnected to the rubbish chute.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 11:09 PM on February 3, 2021 [7 favorites]
I REALLY REALLY like my building - lots of the good stuff - concrete, steel, bricks. An architect friend commented that the materials in that building would probably be sufficient to build 30 storeys to current standard
There is a tower in Australia, where the builder was too stingy to build the stairwells separate from the rubbish chute - so if there is an emergency where the rubbish catches fire - you can't use the stairwell. A client asked about that one, and I explained why I would never STAY in that building - let alone live there. The restaurant at the top is fine - the emergency access is down the stairwell unconnected to the rubbish chute.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 11:09 PM on February 3, 2021 [7 favorites]
Just how much schadenfreude is the recommended daily maximum intake? I feel like I might overdose soon.
posted by Harald74 at 11:13 PM on February 3, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Harald74 at 11:13 PM on February 3, 2021 [7 favorites]
Capex never accountd for opex.
posted by parmanparman at 11:56 PM on February 3, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by parmanparman at 11:56 PM on February 3, 2021 [6 favorites]
So it turns out you can be too rich and too thin.
posted by chavenet at 12:04 AM on February 4, 2021 [48 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 12:04 AM on February 4, 2021 [48 favorites]
So it’s nice to have the schadenfreude moment. I think our anger and squeeing is slightly misdirected. The builders and developers who cut the corners for genuine issues the building is having. If we were reading an article that contained the same building faults - plumbing, sound issues, safety issues etc - but the clientele were working-class, there would be absolute outrage and calls for hangings of the developers/builders. Just because they are rich does not mean their complaints about the shit building aren’t warranted. I think of what would happen if a fire like the London cladding fire would break out in this building: would we blame the rich people, or the people who designed and built it?
I CAN direct my anger towards the miserably low occupancy rate of this building - in cities like London and NYC, it just feels criminal.
The schadenfreude is reserved for the woman who had to use the trade elevator, of course, and those whose minimum dinner costs at the in-house restaurant have “skyrocketed” to $15000.
posted by chronic sublime at 2:51 AM on February 4, 2021 [9 favorites]
I CAN direct my anger towards the miserably low occupancy rate of this building - in cities like London and NYC, it just feels criminal.
The schadenfreude is reserved for the woman who had to use the trade elevator, of course, and those whose minimum dinner costs at the in-house restaurant have “skyrocketed” to $15000.
posted by chronic sublime at 2:51 AM on February 4, 2021 [9 favorites]
Just because they are rich does not mean their complaints about the shit building aren’t warranted.
...but because they are rich does mean that they have a nigh-endless capacity to hire inspectors and engineers to ensure that the places they live are built to their satisfaction, and an even more endless capacity to hire attorneys to ensure that they aren't trapped by undesirable agreements about restaurants.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:08 AM on February 4, 2021 [30 favorites]
...but because they are rich does mean that they have a nigh-endless capacity to hire inspectors and engineers to ensure that the places they live are built to their satisfaction, and an even more endless capacity to hire attorneys to ensure that they aren't trapped by undesirable agreements about restaurants.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:08 AM on February 4, 2021 [30 favorites]
Just because they are rich does not mean their complaints about the shit building aren’t warranted.
Perhaps not. But it does mean that slow-walking any and all responses to those complaints is going to be tremendous fun for all involved.
If building contractors only ever ripped off people who have obscenely more wealth than the contractors do, this would act as some kind of disincentive against seeking to control obscene amounts of wealth, and would therefore serve a useful social purpose.
Of course in the real world, shonky contractors inflict far worse faults on the poor than they do on the rich. I can't get behind that at all. But this story is not about that. This story is about wannabe-upper-class dildoes having their noses rubbed in the same shit that the rest of us have to eat on the regular, and that's a fine thing.
posted by flabdablet at 4:18 AM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
Perhaps not. But it does mean that slow-walking any and all responses to those complaints is going to be tremendous fun for all involved.
If building contractors only ever ripped off people who have obscenely more wealth than the contractors do, this would act as some kind of disincentive against seeking to control obscene amounts of wealth, and would therefore serve a useful social purpose.
Of course in the real world, shonky contractors inflict far worse faults on the poor than they do on the rich. I can't get behind that at all. But this story is not about that. This story is about wannabe-upper-class dildoes having their noses rubbed in the same shit that the rest of us have to eat on the regular, and that's a fine thing.
posted by flabdablet at 4:18 AM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
Just because they are rich does not mean their complaints about the shit building aren’t warranted. I think of what would happen if a fire like the London cladding fire would break out in this buildingPersonally, there would be many thoughts and prayers.
I would possibly even tweet an emoji
posted by fullerine at 4:20 AM on February 4, 2021 [8 favorites]
Plightstyles of the rich and the famous.
posted by pie ninja at 4:21 AM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by pie ninja at 4:21 AM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
I wonder if mechanical is really using 25% of the space or it is just "allocated" 25% of the space. If the former those must be great facilities to work in. If however the developer is hoping the rules will change in the future the might have still squeezed the mechanical into the minimum volume they can managed and just have empty volumes waiting for redevelopment.
posted by Mitheral at 4:22 AM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 4:22 AM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
Welcome to Galt's Condo Tower.
posted by srboisvert at 4:59 AM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 4:59 AM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
Just because they are rich does not mean their complaints about the shit building aren’t warranted. I think of what would happen if a fire like the London cladding fire would break out in this building
Guess who probably bought the weakened regulations and crippled the state's ability to enforce them through tax deductible political donations...
posted by srboisvert at 5:01 AM on February 4, 2021 [25 favorites]
Guess who probably bought the weakened regulations and crippled the state's ability to enforce them through tax deductible political donations...
posted by srboisvert at 5:01 AM on February 4, 2021 [25 favorites]
r/nyc has a nice "Other Juicy Tales of horror from 432 park" thread
posted by lalochezia at 5:10 AM on February 4, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 5:10 AM on February 4, 2021 [11 favorites]
On further research, I must have misremembered or misread. The Stratosphere has a single staircase that goes all the way to the ground, but it's far less than a building its size should have, with the intention that most disasters will result in people taking refuge 795 feet above the ground.
Not the document I remember reading, but lots of good info:
https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/2017/04/28/Quiter_R9700197Application.pdf
posted by Hatashran at 5:29 AM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
Not the document I remember reading, but lots of good info:
https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/2017/04/28/Quiter_R9700197Application.pdf
posted by Hatashran at 5:29 AM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
I REALLY want to see what these mechanical floors / maintenance cathedrals look like.
If you look at that video of the mass damper in the building, it seems like anything that's not public facing is shitty and finished to the bare minimum.
Contrast with the system at the Taipei 101 skyscraper. They literally built a science exhibit around it.
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:36 AM on February 4, 2021 [17 favorites]
If you look at that video of the mass damper in the building, it seems like anything that's not public facing is shitty and finished to the bare minimum.
Contrast with the system at the Taipei 101 skyscraper. They literally built a science exhibit around it.
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:36 AM on February 4, 2021 [17 favorites]
I've heard that the business plan for many new apartment buildings consists of filling up as many units as possible at whatever cost except nominal rent, i.e. free months, waived fees, referral bonuses, etc., then selling the building while occupancy and rent looks great. But before maintenance for all those shiny amenities kicks in, before the true rent starts hitting occupants, before any big problems have time to surface. Then the new owners struggle along for a few years before converting everything to condos, getting rid of the amenities, and spreading out the much higher ongoing costs to individual owners.
Obviously this one skipped the rental part, but I'm happy to see the super rich can get treated just the same as us plebs. Of course, they have the money and clout to make life miserable for the developers for a while. Here's hoping for a long, protracted, and expensive fight for both sides.
Also, $1250 a month min spend for the restaurant??? Holy lolz batman. I'd love to see the contract that makes that necessary.
posted by Jobst at 6:49 AM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Obviously this one skipped the rental part, but I'm happy to see the super rich can get treated just the same as us plebs. Of course, they have the money and clout to make life miserable for the developers for a while. Here's hoping for a long, protracted, and expensive fight for both sides.
Also, $1250 a month min spend for the restaurant??? Holy lolz batman. I'd love to see the contract that makes that necessary.
posted by Jobst at 6:49 AM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
posted by acb at 6:51 AM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by acb at 6:51 AM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
...it seems like anything that's not public facing is shitty and finished to the bare minimum.
That's kinda the norm for developers, frankly. Hell, even when things are public-facing, there's no guarantee it's still not going to be bright, shiny, polished, rubbish. America is all about surface appearances, not depth.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:57 AM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
That's kinda the norm for developers, frankly. Hell, even when things are public-facing, there's no guarantee it's still not going to be bright, shiny, polished, rubbish. America is all about surface appearances, not depth.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:57 AM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
Of course, they have the money and clout to make life miserable for the developers for a while. Here's hoping for a long, protracted, and expensive fight for both sides.
Isn't it standard practice for developers to form a company just for single projects and then quickly fold? That's what suburban developers have been doing for 50 years. I know because my family home had miswired upside down electrical outlets and I grew up knowing which ones to use and which ones to never ever use. They were never fixed because the developer folded as soon as the final house sale went through. If I had to plug something in when I was at someone else's house I would always ask "Is this outlet safe?". Kids in my neighborhood understood. Kids outside my neighborhood always looked at me with an "Of course it is" face.
posted by srboisvert at 7:13 AM on February 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
Isn't it standard practice for developers to form a company just for single projects and then quickly fold? That's what suburban developers have been doing for 50 years. I know because my family home had miswired upside down electrical outlets and I grew up knowing which ones to use and which ones to never ever use. They were never fixed because the developer folded as soon as the final house sale went through. If I had to plug something in when I was at someone else's house I would always ask "Is this outlet safe?". Kids in my neighborhood understood. Kids outside my neighborhood always looked at me with an "Of course it is" face.
posted by srboisvert at 7:13 AM on February 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
I was living in Santiago, Chile when that big earthquake hit in 2010. There are lots of tall buildings in the city, and they held up incredibly well. But the elevators in all the apartment buildings across the city were out of order for two weeks.
A friend had just moved into an apartment on the 98th floor of a very tall building. Amazing views! But for two weeks, every time he had to go out to buy groceries he has to schlep them up 98 floors.
Ever since, I've been a lot less keen on the idea of living in a sky scraper...
posted by EllaEm at 7:19 AM on February 4, 2021 [17 favorites]
A friend had just moved into an apartment on the 98th floor of a very tall building. Amazing views! But for two weeks, every time he had to go out to buy groceries he has to schlep them up 98 floors.
Ever since, I've been a lot less keen on the idea of living in a sky scraper...
posted by EllaEm at 7:19 AM on February 4, 2021 [17 favorites]
that the engineers didn’t account for such an obvious outcome makes one wonder what else they didn’t account for.
my bet is that they probably did, but the architect and developer didn't care.
posted by Dr. Twist at 7:24 AM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
my bet is that they probably did, but the architect and developer didn't care.
posted by Dr. Twist at 7:24 AM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
We're not really comparing the lives of the people who live in this skyscraper to the lives of the people who lived in Grenfell, are we? The people who lived in Grenfell didn't have the resources or the connections to make their housing safe. The people who live in this skyscraper absolutely do. They can move, they can break their contracts, and it won't affect their lives much more than being an inconvenience. And they have enough money that they can influence whoever needs to be influenced to get repairs done. Or, again, they can just leave. There's a world of difference between the two situations.
posted by cooker girl at 7:26 AM on February 4, 2021 [33 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 7:26 AM on February 4, 2021 [33 favorites]
Also, my bet is that if rich people sue and win, they'll get something. Whereas it's been years since Grenfell and essentially nothing has been done and other Grenfell-like buildings have not been remediated.
posted by Frowner at 7:29 AM on February 4, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 7:29 AM on February 4, 2021 [15 favorites]
I consider myself an empathic person but this story? It ain't happenin'.
posted by tommasz at 7:35 AM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by tommasz at 7:35 AM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Isn't it standard practice for developers to form a company just for single projects and then quickly fold?
It's probably a matter of the journalist being off-handed with their terms; referring to someone as "the developer" when actually that's a firm that was hired by the shell company (inevitably named something like "432SuperTallPartners888"), which will be liquidated by the real development partners in a faux-bankruptcy ASAP.
People always tell me that malfeasance can pierce that corporate shell/bankruptcy "veil" but I gotta say I've only seen it happen once, at a jobsite in Lincoln Park Chicago, for a "developer" that was small potatoes, so I'm pretty fucking skeptical that "malfeasance" means jack shit in legal terms.
posted by aramaic at 7:43 AM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
It's probably a matter of the journalist being off-handed with their terms; referring to someone as "the developer" when actually that's a firm that was hired by the shell company (inevitably named something like "432SuperTallPartners888"), which will be liquidated by the real development partners in a faux-bankruptcy ASAP.
People always tell me that malfeasance can pierce that corporate shell/bankruptcy "veil" but I gotta say I've only seen it happen once, at a jobsite in Lincoln Park Chicago, for a "developer" that was small potatoes, so I'm pretty fucking skeptical that "malfeasance" means jack shit in legal terms.
posted by aramaic at 7:43 AM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
What happens if and when buildings like this age, go out of style, and fall into disrepair? Or, heaven forfend, when the market rate has dropped below the amount needed to maintain them? Who foots the bill for fixing or dismantling them? Who protects neighboring buildings and people in the street below?
posted by evidenceofabsence at 7:57 AM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by evidenceofabsence at 7:57 AM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
One of the funnier parts about extremely exclusive high rise views is that when you are taller than all the other buildings you get to see just how ugly most building roof tops are with all their exposed mechanicals and ventilation systems and such. The false fronts and facades don't typical work from that kind of angle.
posted by srboisvert at 8:24 AM on February 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 8:24 AM on February 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
Who protects neighboring buildings and people in the street below?
The NYC Department of Buildings. They're a unique mix of assholery and incompetence, which bodes really well for this building. I hate the DOB, even though I haven't been in the field for years now. Ignorant bastards.
posted by aramaic at 8:29 AM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
The NYC Department of Buildings. They're a unique mix of assholery and incompetence, which bodes really well for this building. I hate the DOB, even though I haven't been in the field for years now. Ignorant bastards.
posted by aramaic at 8:29 AM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
I have a notion that not caring about rich people ripping off other rich people is part of how the 2008 recession happened.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 8:38 AM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 8:38 AM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
The NYC Department of Buildings
I guess I meant "who will take care of it" as opposed to "who will, at best, occasionally issue fines and not enforce them." If recent history is any guide, we might be in trouble.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 8:49 AM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
I guess I meant "who will take care of it" as opposed to "who will, at best, occasionally issue fines and not enforce them." If recent history is any guide, we might be in trouble.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 8:49 AM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
If you look at that video of the mass damper in the building , it seems like anything that's not public facing is shitty and finished to the bare minimum.
Many ostentatious displays of wealth these days are deliberately ugly. Almost celebratory about it, strangely. The rich are in a world of their own making.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:30 AM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
Many ostentatious displays of wealth these days are deliberately ugly. Almost celebratory about it, strangely. The rich are in a world of their own making.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:30 AM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
For me the attraction to high rise living and working really wanes the longer you spend time in them IMO. You end up paying for that view in a myriad of ways.
I used to work in the Chrysler building on the 41st floor and the windows opened and it was terrifying. What was more terrifying is that we used them. If you opened one and you didn't have your files under a paperweight or in a drawer they would just get sucked out by a gust of wind and sail away. When the name partner brought his kids around a firmwide email went out advising us all to close the damn windows. It also swayed a LOT in the wind up there - you could sort of stand in the hallway and surf a bit on bad days.
During the blackout in NYC in 2003 a friend of a friend had just arrived from the UK from JFK with his giant suitcase and was on the subway when the power went out. He had to lug the thing through a filthy dark subway tunnel and then once above ground had to lug it to his friend's high rise and then he had to lug it up something like 30 flights in the dark. To an apt without running water because the water pumps were electric. Gross. No Thanks.
Those reddit posts about the elevators remind me of my current office. You do have to go down to the "concourse" (below street level) to get into the freight elevator and in the freight elevator bay on my office floor on 23 when the wall is opened up to some sort of operations panel someone has written in there in black marker "Fuck You Elevator." I will never not laugh at the sentiment.
Anyway - I certainly don't feel all that sorry for these people who can afford to fix these problems. Which does not mean that the problems should exist in the first place. I was mostly surprised that anyone actually lives there at all. Kind of assumed the whole building would be a ghost town of parked cash.
posted by rdnnyc at 9:39 AM on February 4, 2021 [13 favorites]
I used to work in the Chrysler building on the 41st floor and the windows opened and it was terrifying. What was more terrifying is that we used them. If you opened one and you didn't have your files under a paperweight or in a drawer they would just get sucked out by a gust of wind and sail away. When the name partner brought his kids around a firmwide email went out advising us all to close the damn windows. It also swayed a LOT in the wind up there - you could sort of stand in the hallway and surf a bit on bad days.
During the blackout in NYC in 2003 a friend of a friend had just arrived from the UK from JFK with his giant suitcase and was on the subway when the power went out. He had to lug the thing through a filthy dark subway tunnel and then once above ground had to lug it to his friend's high rise and then he had to lug it up something like 30 flights in the dark. To an apt without running water because the water pumps were electric. Gross. No Thanks.
Those reddit posts about the elevators remind me of my current office. You do have to go down to the "concourse" (below street level) to get into the freight elevator and in the freight elevator bay on my office floor on 23 when the wall is opened up to some sort of operations panel someone has written in there in black marker "Fuck You Elevator." I will never not laugh at the sentiment.
Anyway - I certainly don't feel all that sorry for these people who can afford to fix these problems. Which does not mean that the problems should exist in the first place. I was mostly surprised that anyone actually lives there at all. Kind of assumed the whole building would be a ghost town of parked cash.
posted by rdnnyc at 9:39 AM on February 4, 2021 [13 favorites]
I may be in the minority, but I think pencil towers like this are great. I love the look (not so much this particular one, but in general). Tall residential builds can be an effective use of space (it depends where you are building, but according to this, between 30 and 50 floors might be the sweet spot.
Which doesn't mean that I don't get a chuckle out of this. It seems that most of the apartments there were bought for investment purposes or temporary accommodation or just to show off, so my sympathies are limited.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 9:56 AM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
Which doesn't mean that I don't get a chuckle out of this. It seems that most of the apartments there were bought for investment purposes or temporary accommodation or just to show off, so my sympathies are limited.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 9:56 AM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
The building may have its problems but at least there isn't a creepy Baldwin brother spying on people in the shower.
posted by leaper at 10:26 AM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by leaper at 10:26 AM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
The absolutely incognito way "Sarina and Mikhail Abramovich" were described SENT ME
I had to actually Google aftwards to check they were talking about the same people
This was basically a commissioned hit piece --Tom Gara on Twitter
posted by box at 10:44 AM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
I had to actually Google aftwards to check they were talking about the same people
This was basically a commissioned hit piece --Tom Gara on Twitter
posted by box at 10:44 AM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
Hell, even when things are public-facing, there's no guarantee it's still not going to be bright, shiny, polished, rubbish. America is all about surface appearances, not depth.
Free-market efficiency is not a gleaming monorail winding its way past slender towers, but a shantytown choked with unregulated, smoke-belching minivans.
posted by acb at 11:26 AM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
Free-market efficiency is not a gleaming monorail winding its way past slender towers, but a shantytown choked with unregulated, smoke-belching minivans.
posted by acb at 11:26 AM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
Thanks for the video of the beautiful mass damper, JoeZydeco - I was enjoying it even before the English narration kicked in. So physics, much engineering.
posted by clew at 11:56 AM on February 4, 2021
posted by clew at 11:56 AM on February 4, 2021
...bought a high-floor, 3,500-square-foot apartment at the tower for nearly $17 million in 2016...
Note to self: If I ever have anything near $17 million to spend on property (which is, you know, more than 40 times what I might be able to afford even with a large mortgage), I think I'll hold out for a ground floor unit, maybe with a nice garden or patio. For that kind of money, there is absolutely no point in waiting for an elevator.
Heck, for that kind of money, I might even go semi-detached!
posted by jb at 12:07 PM on February 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
Note to self: If I ever have anything near $17 million to spend on property (which is, you know, more than 40 times what I might be able to afford even with a large mortgage), I think I'll hold out for a ground floor unit, maybe with a nice garden or patio. For that kind of money, there is absolutely no point in waiting for an elevator.
Heck, for that kind of money, I might even go semi-detached!
posted by jb at 12:07 PM on February 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
“Later, as he sat on his balcony eating the dog, Dr Robert Laing reflected on the unusual events that had taken place within this huge apartment building during the previous three months.”
posted by doctornemo at 12:31 PM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 12:31 PM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
The New York Times has really perfected this two-handed game with its coverage of the lives of the rich. They can speak directly to that crowd, to those who serve them, and to those who want to join them with empathy and support. At the same time these pieces are red meat for the left.
posted by doctornemo at 12:32 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 12:32 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
But before maintenance for all those shiny amenities kicks in, before the true rent starts hitting occupants, before any big problems have time to surface. Then the new owners struggle along for a few years before converting everything to condos, getting rid of the amenities, and spreading out the much higher ongoing costs to individual owners.
"All over the world, it's the same, it's the same."
This is absolutely the standard m.o. for apartment complexes in China - I have seen dozens of examples of ugly abandoned empty pools and water features. Keep it in mind when you are buying! Wherever it is! When they are pushing the new units and you are awestruck by the exercise room, and the beautiful fountains, the swimming pool, and the gazebo in the Zen garden, and... imagine to yourself what those things will be like in five years, when the units are all sold, the developers have made their money and moved on.
posted by Meatbomb at 12:35 PM on February 4, 2021 [10 favorites]
"All over the world, it's the same, it's the same."
This is absolutely the standard m.o. for apartment complexes in China - I have seen dozens of examples of ugly abandoned empty pools and water features. Keep it in mind when you are buying! Wherever it is! When they are pushing the new units and you are awestruck by the exercise room, and the beautiful fountains, the swimming pool, and the gazebo in the Zen garden, and... imagine to yourself what those things will be like in five years, when the units are all sold, the developers have made their money and moved on.
posted by Meatbomb at 12:35 PM on February 4, 2021 [10 favorites]
Shoulda gone pre-war.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:57 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:57 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
This is absolutely the standard m.o. for apartment complexes in China
Standard in the US too - I've lived in a few apartments and stayed in so many motels where the land value is not high enough for rent to be high enough for maintenance. So many filled in pools, not even take out, just filled with dirt.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:24 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Standard in the US too - I've lived in a few apartments and stayed in so many motels where the land value is not high enough for rent to be high enough for maintenance. So many filled in pools, not even take out, just filled with dirt.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:24 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
JoeZydeco: "Contrast with the system at the Taipei 101 skyscraper. They literally built a science exhibit around it."
Looks like the AI in the most recent season of WestWorld.
posted by octothorpe at 1:45 PM on February 4, 2021
Looks like the AI in the most recent season of WestWorld.
posted by octothorpe at 1:45 PM on February 4, 2021
Mitheral "if mechanical is really using 25% of the space or it is just "allocated" 25% of the space. If the former those must be great facilities to work in"..
Machine decks/floors are definitely not nice places to work in. VERY cluttered, especially as a building ages and retrofits get made. Often IME much is painted black, with pipes in diff. colours. A lot of noise; hissing, rumbling. gurgling, exposed live electrics (I've had a few shocks). Also even where there are standard floor height walking space can get low/varies due to all the ducting.
I haven't worked in tall builds for decades now but what surprised me then was how easy they were to hack/break into - as mere construction workers 'laborers' we often weren't trusted with keys, but expected to get jobs done, I was the only one in my crew sho hadn't done jail time so I learned lots of new skills, amazing how IT-based security often omits looking at physical hacking.
Hidden floors are fascinating though - if you can find them - science labs, secure banking, state-sector sites - I know of a few and they're kinda weird as undocumented for most people who build them, they're like non-spaces often with dedicated (also hidden) service shafts.
posted by unearthed at 2:16 PM on February 4, 2021 [16 favorites]
Machine decks/floors are definitely not nice places to work in. VERY cluttered, especially as a building ages and retrofits get made. Often IME much is painted black, with pipes in diff. colours. A lot of noise; hissing, rumbling. gurgling, exposed live electrics (I've had a few shocks). Also even where there are standard floor height walking space can get low/varies due to all the ducting.
I haven't worked in tall builds for decades now but what surprised me then was how easy they were to hack/break into - as mere construction workers 'laborers' we often weren't trusted with keys, but expected to get jobs done, I was the only one in my crew sho hadn't done jail time so I learned lots of new skills, amazing how IT-based security often omits looking at physical hacking.
Hidden floors are fascinating though - if you can find them - science labs, secure banking, state-sector sites - I know of a few and they're kinda weird as undocumented for most people who build them, they're like non-spaces often with dedicated (also hidden) service shafts.
posted by unearthed at 2:16 PM on February 4, 2021 [16 favorites]
...and tunnels into the Malkovich vessel?
posted by polecat at 3:15 PM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by polecat at 3:15 PM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
Leaks, Creaks, Breaks...
Come on, NYT. Just finish with the right word and we get another Todrick Hall video.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:05 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Come on, NYT. Just finish with the right word and we get another Todrick Hall video.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:05 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
> The absolutely incognito way "Sarina and Mikhail Abramovich" were described SENT ME
Who are they?
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:27 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Who are they?
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:27 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Machine decks/floors are definitely not nice places to work in. VERY cluttered, especially as a building ages and retrofits get made.
Oh I know, I've worked in them too. But never where 20% of the building was mechanical space in addition to the chases etc. that have to be on every floor. Usually it's like 10% of the space at best and half that also used for storage. Though I haven't worked in buildings over 15 stories or so.
posted by Mitheral at 6:50 PM on February 4, 2021
Oh I know, I've worked in them too. But never where 20% of the building was mechanical space in addition to the chases etc. that have to be on every floor. Usually it's like 10% of the space at best and half that also used for storage. Though I haven't worked in buildings over 15 stories or so.
posted by Mitheral at 6:50 PM on February 4, 2021
Most new condo buildings result in litigation with every single contractor and professional who ever breathed on the building (really, their insurers), while the developer's legal entity created for the project has no assets and all of the insurers claim there's no coverage. Then everyone fights, the condo boards have a rough time, and lawyers make oodles of money. Plus when there's a coverage issue, you get three sets of lawyers per party - defence counsel for the claim, coverage counsel to the insurer, and coverage counsel for the insured. More money for lawyers. Really, the lawyers win.
Source: former construction lawyer.
posted by lookoutbelow at 7:19 PM on February 4, 2021 [9 favorites]
Source: former construction lawyer.
posted by lookoutbelow at 7:19 PM on February 4, 2021 [9 favorites]
and where the identities of virtually all the buyers were concealed by shell companies.
Aren't most of the units in buildings like this bought as sinks for money laundering?
posted by mediareport at 7:30 PM on February 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
Aren't most of the units in buildings like this bought as sinks for money laundering?
posted by mediareport at 7:30 PM on February 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
I mean, the whole process of building the things has also got to offer huge opportunities for money laundering. "Look! It's the most outrageously expensive building in the country! Of *course* the flooring is goint to cost 100 times what it normally would!"
posted by mediareport at 4:20 AM on February 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by mediareport at 4:20 AM on February 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
mediareport: "Aren't most of the units in buildings like this bought as sinks for money laundering?"
That was probably my biggest surprise from the article; I didn't think that anyone actually lived in these places. I figured that they were all either owned by Wall Street capital firms for executive parties and for Russian billionaires to sinks some money.
posted by octothorpe at 4:28 PM on February 6, 2021
That was probably my biggest surprise from the article; I didn't think that anyone actually lived in these places. I figured that they were all either owned by Wall Street capital firms for executive parties and for Russian billionaires to sinks some money.
posted by octothorpe at 4:28 PM on February 6, 2021
To an apt without running water because the water pumps were electric.
This is such a thing. I grew up in tower in the park housing and every time the power goes out it's basically a public health crisis. Without a working pump there's suddenly no water and no working toilets above the ~6th floor, which is not to mention the rottng food in refeigerators, no heat in winter or air conditioning in summer, and far more stairs between residents and the ground level than many people can walk. I had fun during the 2003 blackout (so many bodegas were giving out free melting ice cream—so many!), but I spent part of it working with other folks to carry gallons of water up to my mom's elderly neighbors because they were more or less trapped. The same thing happened after hurricane Sandy.
I hope those mechanical floors are home to powerful generators that can help when the grid goes down again.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 4:52 PM on February 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
This is such a thing. I grew up in tower in the park housing and every time the power goes out it's basically a public health crisis. Without a working pump there's suddenly no water and no working toilets above the ~6th floor, which is not to mention the rottng food in refeigerators, no heat in winter or air conditioning in summer, and far more stairs between residents and the ground level than many people can walk. I had fun during the 2003 blackout (so many bodegas were giving out free melting ice cream—so many!), but I spent part of it working with other folks to carry gallons of water up to my mom's elderly neighbors because they were more or less trapped. The same thing happened after hurricane Sandy.
I hope those mechanical floors are home to powerful generators that can help when the grid goes down again.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 4:52 PM on February 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
The large tank of fuel that the generators would need is not something you generally want stored in your tower.
posted by Mitheral at 4:26 PM on February 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Mitheral at 4:26 PM on February 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
I was staying in a highrise hotel in Toronto during the 2003 blackout and they did manage to keep the elevators running using a generator although the only toilets that were functional were in the lobby.
posted by octothorpe at 5:27 AM on February 9, 2021
posted by octothorpe at 5:27 AM on February 9, 2021
I spent part of it working with other folks to carry gallons of water up to my mom's elderly neighbors because they were more or less trapped.
Stories like these are why I'm so reluctant to live much above the fourth or fifth floor, even if the views are grand - that, and growing up in a 12-floor apartment building where the elevators were regularly broken. We lived on the ground floor and I always felt so very, very lucky. (Also, we still had balcony rails, but when I got bigger I could jump over them and then we had a real backdoor!).
posted by jb at 7:42 AM on February 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Stories like these are why I'm so reluctant to live much above the fourth or fifth floor, even if the views are grand - that, and growing up in a 12-floor apartment building where the elevators were regularly broken. We lived on the ground floor and I always felt so very, very lucky. (Also, we still had balcony rails, but when I got bigger I could jump over them and then we had a real backdoor!).
posted by jb at 7:42 AM on February 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
On site back up power for essential services like elevators, fire pumps and domestic water/sewage = good. Generators 30 stories up with their attendant fuel tanks = bad.
posted by Mitheral at 11:51 AM on February 9, 2021
posted by Mitheral at 11:51 AM on February 9, 2021
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posted by automatronic at 5:35 PM on February 3, 2021 [138 favorites]