Armie Hammer’s Hollywood Career Is in Freefall as Sex Scandal Explodes
February 4, 2021 6:15 PM Subscribe
After he dropped out of two high-profile projects – which Variety hears from multiple well-placed sources he was asked to leave – it’s not clear if his career can, or will, recover. “He’s not Tom Cruise,” a high-powered publicist says. “He keeps getting cast, but it’s never a hit at the box office. Who is going to fight in this day and age for a star who has this complicated of a story surrounding him?”
what's fetch?
posted by thelonius at 6:28 PM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 6:28 PM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
Maybe I'm an old fuddy duddy, but sex scandal is maybe not the right term to describe the controversy around Armie Hammer. This seems more like potential serial killer controversy.
posted by nushustu at 6:31 PM on February 4, 2021 [48 favorites]
posted by nushustu at 6:31 PM on February 4, 2021 [48 favorites]
”Fetch” is that thing that someone keeps trying to make happen, but it’s just not going to happen.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 6:32 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 6:32 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Previous Metafilter thread on Ten Long Years of Trying to Make Armie Hammer Happen, Anne Helen Petersen's article for Buzzfeed News.
Also, from writer/editor Anna Peele's twitter: "Re: Armie: I once mentioned him during an interview with a much-loved actor. The actor asked me to turn off my recorder so he could talk about how @annehelen’s Buzzfeed feature got AH exactly right."
posted by mogget at 6:33 PM on February 4, 2021 [33 favorites]
Also, from writer/editor Anna Peele's twitter: "Re: Armie: I once mentioned him during an interview with a much-loved actor. The actor asked me to turn off my recorder so he could talk about how @annehelen’s Buzzfeed feature got AH exactly right."
posted by mogget at 6:33 PM on February 4, 2021 [33 favorites]
Armie Hammer is ”fetch”.
Anne Helen Peterson in BuzzFeed: “Ten Long Years Of Trying To Make Armie Hammer Happen” (November 26, 2017)
posted by Going To Maine at 6:35 PM on February 4, 2021 [11 favorites]
Anne Helen Peterson in BuzzFeed: “Ten Long Years Of Trying To Make Armie Hammer Happen” (November 26, 2017)
[I]s Hammer truly a unique star who’s finally finding his niche — or simply a beautiful, pedigreed white man who’s been allowed, in a way that few others in Hollywood have, endless attempts to discover it?I thought that with Call Me By Your Name and Sorry To Bother You, Armie Hammer was, in fact, happening. But this might indeed end it. Before seeing this article all I had heard about was the cannibalism stuff, which seemed patently ridiculous and made me assume people were out to smear him, and it sounds like there’s much worse stuff out there. Yet the article feels kind of vague about it. Maybe that’s just Variety’s style, but I wouldn’t mind a more detailed timeline of this whole affair, and not something that assumes I’m already 50% in the know.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:35 PM on February 4, 2021 [11 favorites]
My “I’ve never eaten human flesh” tee shirt is raising questions that are answered by my shirt.
posted by neroli at 6:36 PM on February 4, 2021 [41 favorites]
posted by neroli at 6:36 PM on February 4, 2021 [41 favorites]
Here’s the thing; Hammer is STUPID rich. Like, grandson of “Arm and Hammer” baking soda money. He’s like Jamie Johnson of the Johnson and Johnson fortune. He was born into more money than he’ll ever be able to spend.
If he ain’t killed and et someone yet, he’s not gonna.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 6:43 PM on February 4, 2021 [18 favorites]
If he ain’t killed and et someone yet, he’s not gonna.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 6:43 PM on February 4, 2021 [18 favorites]
That someone tells Variety that none of their female clients will work with him now is very salient, but it really seems like the non-cannibalism stuff is going to have to come to the fore. Otherwise, the most outrageous, nonsense allegations will make the general public ignore everything else. “Oh yeah, Armie Hammer - he tweeted some bad stuff, it was sexy talk about eating people I think, that’s kind of a weird kink but ok.”
posted by Going To Maine at 6:47 PM on February 4, 2021
posted by Going To Maine at 6:47 PM on February 4, 2021
I became aware of this whole thing via the birdsite (sorta, in that annoying way that's like walking into a roomful of people having a conversation that started before you got there and you have to piece together what's going on). At the time I didn't really buy the cannibalism thing, but also kind of shrugged and immediately didn't give a shit because surely hollywood can find another vaguely handsome white guy to replace him.
posted by axiom at 6:48 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by axiom at 6:48 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
Crucial background from the Anne Helen Petersen profile at Buzzfeed in 2017.
I'm not actually a huge fan of Petersen's work and I think she tends to overinterpret things, but the profile gives a looooooot of details on Hammer as "privileged rich white douchebag" (he grew up very rich) who is kind-of mad the world won't recognize he's a movie star, and touches on a lot of the really troubling accusations that are now "surfacing" but actually were already out there in 2017.
But the point I actually want to make about Hammer is that because he is such an entitled asshole, he is routinely an absolute dick to entertainment journalists, especially women. He was harassing Petersen about this profile in the press eighteen months later (and got that harassment highlighted approvingly by Page Six, which is a very dudes-that-hate-women-friendly outlet, where men going through ugly divorces like to place their stories about their bitter, conniving wives -- see also, Brad Pitt).
As this story current stands, it should be spinnable. It's creepy AF, sure, but stars -- especially male stars -- can get away with publicly kinky sex lives IF it's consensual, and a lot of it could be muddied by talking about how "some" of the photos/texts/videos are fakes (which a few appear they may be, and "a few" is "some" and "some" can imply "most" if you do it right). A good PR team would even subtly cast him as a victim, having him apologetic and concerned and embarrassed, talking remorsefully about the failure of his marriage and how that led him to act out, while planting stories in Page Six and TMZ (which are Hammer-friendly) and (crucially) in People where "a close friend of the actor" talks about his "sense of betrayal" that women he trusted published these private pictures etc etc etc. Then he'd drop out of the public eye for a while, let paps catch him with his kids and some clean-as-a-whistle new girlfriend, and take on a small-but-challenging role in an indie film where 8 billion stories leak from set about how hardworking and pleasant he is.
But he has been SUCH A DICK for SO MANY YEARS to SO MANY ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALISTS that his PR people have not been able to sell ANY kind of spin to ANY outlets that I've seen. He's not just a dick who can't be arsed to do a PR tour properly (I mean, Johnny Depp can't, but he got away with it because he was an entertaining and weird rude dick; Hammer's just a rich guy everyone wanted to punch in high school), but he's aggressively rude to journalists trying to do their jobs asking about his movies/acting/etc., and then for any coverage that's any less than fawning, he's super angry and vengeful and holds a grudge about it -- and acts it out in public, on twitter or in televised interviews, denigrating the journalists (always women!) he's pissed at. FOR YEARS AFTERWARDS. Despite the massive power disparity between "Armie Hammer, extremely wealthy and well-connected movie star with an international platform" and "random entertainment journalist in her 20s covering the media blitz around a B-list movie for US Weekly."
It's a form of male anger women know only too well -- he's rude, he's entitled, and if he perceives himself as being even slightly disrespected by a woman, he will pursue that for YEARS and take revenge over and over again for the ego injury.
Kind-of a perfect movie-star downfall to close out the Trump era, actually.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:50 PM on February 4, 2021 [136 favorites]
I'm not actually a huge fan of Petersen's work and I think she tends to overinterpret things, but the profile gives a looooooot of details on Hammer as "privileged rich white douchebag" (he grew up very rich) who is kind-of mad the world won't recognize he's a movie star, and touches on a lot of the really troubling accusations that are now "surfacing" but actually were already out there in 2017.
But the point I actually want to make about Hammer is that because he is such an entitled asshole, he is routinely an absolute dick to entertainment journalists, especially women. He was harassing Petersen about this profile in the press eighteen months later (and got that harassment highlighted approvingly by Page Six, which is a very dudes-that-hate-women-friendly outlet, where men going through ugly divorces like to place their stories about their bitter, conniving wives -- see also, Brad Pitt).
As this story current stands, it should be spinnable. It's creepy AF, sure, but stars -- especially male stars -- can get away with publicly kinky sex lives IF it's consensual, and a lot of it could be muddied by talking about how "some" of the photos/texts/videos are fakes (which a few appear they may be, and "a few" is "some" and "some" can imply "most" if you do it right). A good PR team would even subtly cast him as a victim, having him apologetic and concerned and embarrassed, talking remorsefully about the failure of his marriage and how that led him to act out, while planting stories in Page Six and TMZ (which are Hammer-friendly) and (crucially) in People where "a close friend of the actor" talks about his "sense of betrayal" that women he trusted published these private pictures etc etc etc. Then he'd drop out of the public eye for a while, let paps catch him with his kids and some clean-as-a-whistle new girlfriend, and take on a small-but-challenging role in an indie film where 8 billion stories leak from set about how hardworking and pleasant he is.
But he has been SUCH A DICK for SO MANY YEARS to SO MANY ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALISTS that his PR people have not been able to sell ANY kind of spin to ANY outlets that I've seen. He's not just a dick who can't be arsed to do a PR tour properly (I mean, Johnny Depp can't, but he got away with it because he was an entertaining and weird rude dick; Hammer's just a rich guy everyone wanted to punch in high school), but he's aggressively rude to journalists trying to do their jobs asking about his movies/acting/etc., and then for any coverage that's any less than fawning, he's super angry and vengeful and holds a grudge about it -- and acts it out in public, on twitter or in televised interviews, denigrating the journalists (always women!) he's pissed at. FOR YEARS AFTERWARDS. Despite the massive power disparity between "Armie Hammer, extremely wealthy and well-connected movie star with an international platform" and "random entertainment journalist in her 20s covering the media blitz around a B-list movie for US Weekly."
It's a form of male anger women know only too well -- he's rude, he's entitled, and if he perceives himself as being even slightly disrespected by a woman, he will pursue that for YEARS and take revenge over and over again for the ego injury.
Kind-of a perfect movie-star downfall to close out the Trump era, actually.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:50 PM on February 4, 2021 [136 favorites]
Yeah they had me at "he kept talking about how he wanted to remove and eat one of my ribs." This guy is straight up terrifying, and anything else entitled or shitty about him seems garden variety in comparison to his clearly abusive behavior and possibly murderous intentions.
What the hell is it recently, with these extra horrifying Hollywood cases coming out: Shia LaBoeuf, Armie Hammer, and whatever Marilyn Manson's real name is? It's as though this far in this era of hardship and pressures, an extra evil box popped open and the most horrifying cases are starting to see light.
posted by erinfern at 7:00 PM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
What the hell is it recently, with these extra horrifying Hollywood cases coming out: Shia LaBoeuf, Armie Hammer, and whatever Marilyn Manson's real name is? It's as though this far in this era of hardship and pressures, an extra evil box popped open and the most horrifying cases are starting to see light.
posted by erinfern at 7:00 PM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
Surprisingly, baking soda does help with peeling fava beans, cooking them to that perfect *chef's kiss* al dente texture preferred by nine out of ten cannibals.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:00 PM on February 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:00 PM on February 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
Here’s the thing; Hammer is STUPID rich. Like, grandson of “Arm and Hammer” baking soda money.
Having never heard of the guy before this post I did some wikipedia-ing and apparently while he is rich and his grandfather, also named Armand Hammer, was on the board of directors of Church & Dwight, the company that owns the Arm and Hammer brand, the brand was actually formed and named 31 years before said grandfather was born and he didn't become involved with it until 1986 when he had already made his fortune.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 7:01 PM on February 4, 2021 [18 favorites]
Having never heard of the guy before this post I did some wikipedia-ing and apparently while he is rich and his grandfather, also named Armand Hammer, was on the board of directors of Church & Dwight, the company that owns the Arm and Hammer brand, the brand was actually formed and named 31 years before said grandfather was born and he didn't become involved with it until 1986 when he had already made his fortune.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 7:01 PM on February 4, 2021 [18 favorites]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arm_and_hammer
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 7:03 PM on February 4, 2021
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 7:03 PM on February 4, 2021
In addition to everything that's been established about his desires to harm and possibly eat human bodies, he's been on film more than once talking about "beating the shit out of" dogs. Joking/not joking about animal abuse does, sadly, not seem to be a one-off in his pattern of speech and behavior.
Separately, they are each giant red flags. As an ensemble, they paint a terrifying picture of someone who should absolutely not be the subject of fame or praise.
posted by knotty knots at 7:06 PM on February 4, 2021 [17 favorites]
Separately, they are each giant red flags. As an ensemble, they paint a terrifying picture of someone who should absolutely not be the subject of fame or praise.
posted by knotty knots at 7:06 PM on February 4, 2021 [17 favorites]
I read what I felt was a decent Rolling Stone overview by EJ Dickson of this about a week ago, referred by Remy Kassimir and Ali Macofsky (hour-plus YouTube podcast link).
posted by cgc373 at 7:10 PM on February 4, 2021
posted by cgc373 at 7:10 PM on February 4, 2021
"Armand Hammer" is already a stupid name but the fact it's not just a stupid stage name and there actually is some connection between him and the brand is making me lose my shit.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 7:10 PM on February 4, 2021 [40 favorites]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 7:10 PM on February 4, 2021 [40 favorites]
So you're telling me a guy named Armand Hammer joined the board of directors for a company that owned the brand Arm and Hammer but there was no connection between the names? Is this proof that we live in a simulation?
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:15 PM on February 4, 2021 [51 favorites]
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:15 PM on February 4, 2021 [51 favorites]
Like, grandson of “Arm and Hammer” baking soda money
Yes and no. Armie is the great-grandson of Armand Hammer, late of Occidental Petroleum, 'named after the "arm and hammer" graphic symbol of the Socialist Labor Party of America (SLP), in which his father had a leadership role'.
Great-grandad did business with Lenin himself and worked to smoothe US/Soviet relations while making a boatload of money from both sides of the Iron Curtain.
He got involved with Arm & Hammer because it was another way to push the Armand Hammer name.
His autobiography is thick, detailed, and a near-hagiography. His biography, by longtime associate Carl Blumay, is just as thick but very different; it documents a man some would call a heartless, soulless apex predator.
One always hopes these traits don't get passed down.
So you're telling me a guy named Armand Hammer joined the board of directors for a company that owned the brand Arm and Hammer but there was no connection between the names?
Yes, he absolutely did it for the lulz. And possibly narcissism.
posted by zaixfeep at 7:25 PM on February 4, 2021 [71 favorites]
Yes and no. Armie is the great-grandson of Armand Hammer, late of Occidental Petroleum, 'named after the "arm and hammer" graphic symbol of the Socialist Labor Party of America (SLP), in which his father had a leadership role'.
Great-grandad did business with Lenin himself and worked to smoothe US/Soviet relations while making a boatload of money from both sides of the Iron Curtain.
He got involved with Arm & Hammer because it was another way to push the Armand Hammer name.
His autobiography is thick, detailed, and a near-hagiography. His biography, by longtime associate Carl Blumay, is just as thick but very different; it documents a man some would call a heartless, soulless apex predator.
One always hopes these traits don't get passed down.
So you're telling me a guy named Armand Hammer joined the board of directors for a company that owned the brand Arm and Hammer but there was no connection between the names?
Yes, he absolutely did it for the lulz. And possibly narcissism.
posted by zaixfeep at 7:25 PM on February 4, 2021 [71 favorites]
Okay - the cannibalism stuff was, I believe, ultimately false. As in, the person who initially made the claim then later tweeted out a follow-up that she'd made it up.
I...don't know what to say about the other stuff.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:28 PM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
I...don't know what to say about the other stuff.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:28 PM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
Who?
posted by krisjohn at 7:29 PM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by krisjohn at 7:29 PM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
Not to make light of any of this, but this whole thing was just an outlandlishly strange way to find out "Armie Hammer" is not in fact the name of an Arm & Hammer cartoon mascot, as I had honest to god just assumed.
posted by jameaterblues at 7:35 PM on February 4, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by jameaterblues at 7:35 PM on February 4, 2021 [14 favorites]
“Oh yeah, Armie Hammer - he tweeted some bad stuff, it was sexy talk about eating people I think, that’s kind of a weird kink but ok.”
No, unfortunately, this is far too broad-minded of a take for most people. For most people, judging from Twitter, it was funny. There were jokes and memes all over. And what is it men like this are afraid of? Being laughed at.
I am glad if he gets kicked out of this little club, but I don't know if he will. He could always go to the stage, or abroad, or to Christian movies.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:36 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
No, unfortunately, this is far too broad-minded of a take for most people. For most people, judging from Twitter, it was funny. There were jokes and memes all over. And what is it men like this are afraid of? Being laughed at.
I am glad if he gets kicked out of this little club, but I don't know if he will. He could always go to the stage, or abroad, or to Christian movies.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:36 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
This is the weirdest thing today.
Also, mean girl references are fetch.
posted by firstdaffodils at 7:37 PM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
Also, mean girl references are fetch.
posted by firstdaffodils at 7:37 PM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
This guy looks so generic that if you told me that he came out of a 48 pack of white guys that you bought on special at Costco I would believe it without question.
There are plenty of handsome white dudes who can act and aren't weird creeps. Hire one of them instead.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:38 PM on February 4, 2021 [61 favorites]
There are plenty of handsome white dudes who can act and aren't weird creeps. Hire one of them instead.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:38 PM on February 4, 2021 [61 favorites]
Also, mean girl references are fetch.
No, they're 'streets ahead'...
posted by zaixfeep at 7:39 PM on February 4, 2021 [11 favorites]
No, they're 'streets ahead'...
posted by zaixfeep at 7:39 PM on February 4, 2021 [11 favorites]
"As this story current stands, it should be spinnable. It's creepy AF, sure, but stars -- especially male stars -- can get away with publicly kinky sex lives IF it's consensual, and a lot of it could be muddied by talking about how "some" of the photos/texts/videos are fakes (which a few appear they may be, and "a few" is "some" and "some" can imply "most" if you do it right). A good PR team would even subtly cast him as a victim, having him apologetic and concerned and embarrassed, talking remorsefully about the failure of his marriage and how that led him to act out, while planting stories in Page Six and TMZ (which are Hammer-friendly) and (crucially) in People where "a close friend of the actor" talks about his "sense of betrayal" that women he trusted published these private pictures etc etc etc. Then he'd drop out of the public eye for a while, let paps catch him with his kids and some clean-as-a-whistle new girlfriend, and take on a small-but-challenging role in an indie film where 8 billion stories leak from set about how hardworking and pleasant he is."
Why do I feel like he isn't finished working.
posted by firstdaffodils at 7:40 PM on February 4, 2021
Why do I feel like he isn't finished working.
posted by firstdaffodils at 7:40 PM on February 4, 2021
"No, they're 'streets ahead'..." Nah, TMZ said they were fetch, yesterday. We're making Zoolander references now, and you're next.
Thelonius is in-the-know. What's fetch?
posted by firstdaffodils at 7:41 PM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
Thelonius is in-the-know. What's fetch?
posted by firstdaffodils at 7:41 PM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
This guy looks so generic that if you told me that he came out of a 48 pack of white guys that you bought on special at Costco I would believe it without question.
Yeah, when I did a Google image search of him just now I had the same reaction. My immediate thought was "blandest of bland white dudes". My second thought was, "I wouldn't trust anyone with those eyes." Still don't know who he is, and after this post and that search I care even less than I did before.
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:41 PM on February 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
Yeah, when I did a Google image search of him just now I had the same reaction. My immediate thought was "blandest of bland white dudes". My second thought was, "I wouldn't trust anyone with those eyes." Still don't know who he is, and after this post and that search I care even less than I did before.
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:41 PM on February 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
So, unlike everyone else here, I actually have liked him in several things. I thought he was great in Reaper, Mirror Mirror (which I felt was underrated) and Man from U.N.C.L.E. And now I'm not going to be able to watch any of those things again. Ugh. Why these scumbags.
posted by rednikki at 7:44 PM on February 4, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by rednikki at 7:44 PM on February 4, 2021 [8 favorites]
It's unfortunate when you can't separate the art from the artist.
posted by firstdaffodils at 7:45 PM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by firstdaffodils at 7:45 PM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
firstdaffodils: ahh I see. I missed the TMZ ref. Please carry on while I lie down, roll over and play dead.
posted by zaixfeep at 7:46 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by zaixfeep at 7:46 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
It's okay, it's just the internet. We have to talk about this pseudo cannibal, now. Tut Tut
posted by firstdaffodils at 7:48 PM on February 4, 2021
posted by firstdaffodils at 7:48 PM on February 4, 2021
He was perfectly typecast in “Sorry Yo Bother You”, which is not only brilliant, but one of the most OAKLAND movies you will ever see.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 7:49 PM on February 4, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 7:49 PM on February 4, 2021 [19 favorites]
“He’s not Tom Cruise”
so at least he has that going for him
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:50 PM on February 4, 2021 [26 favorites]
so at least he has that going for him
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:50 PM on February 4, 2021 [26 favorites]
That Lone Ranger flick he did with Johnny Depp for Disney is just all sorts of awful.
posted by Catblack at 7:50 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Catblack at 7:50 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
We have to talk about this pseudo cannibal, now.
as opposed to actual cannibal Shia LaBoeuf
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:50 PM on February 4, 2021 [18 favorites]
as opposed to actual cannibal Shia LaBoeuf
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:50 PM on February 4, 2021 [18 favorites]
Extracted from the previous post on the blue: "Fortune's Children", a photo feature in Vanity Fair in which Armie is shown along with some fellow rich kids, at least a couple of whom are, hmm, a bit more notorious now.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:52 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:52 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Also, does Eyebrows McGee host a PR firm?
posted by firstdaffodils at 8:15 PM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by firstdaffodils at 8:15 PM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
We have to talk about this pseudo cannibal, now.
as opposed to actual cannibal Shia LaBoeuf
so ummm, just in case I might someday become absurdly famous, let me just get it on the official record that I never ate anyone (in whole or part) that I didn't kill with my bare hands in a fair fight. And anyway, that was all back in the 1980s when people would do anything on a dare. Also, I'm a fictional character.
posted by philip-random at 8:24 PM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
as opposed to actual cannibal Shia LaBoeuf
so ummm, just in case I might someday become absurdly famous, let me just get it on the official record that I never ate anyone (in whole or part) that I didn't kill with my bare hands in a fair fight. And anyway, that was all back in the 1980s when people would do anything on a dare. Also, I'm a fictional character.
posted by philip-random at 8:24 PM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
....So, I have a bit of a bias and am a little conflicted.
Call Me By Your Name is one of my favorite movies ever. Ever. It affected me profoundly, and still does. Timmy Chalamet was the biggest reason (he was astoundingly good and absolutely deserved that Best Actor Oscar nomination), but on my most recent rewatch I was realizing "oh but Armie is really good here too." And he was - in the earlier scenes he is basically channelling the smug rich dudebro that by all accounts he is, but in later scenes there is a vulnerability there, the exact kind of vulnerability that his character would have - that someone who's fallen in love would have.
I don't have it in me to dislike this film, and I don't know if I'd have it in me to dislike his character in it, or his performance in it. This isn't the first time I've run into the "separate the art from the artist" question, but it's the first time it's concerned a film I'm so close to.
But the Buzzfeed article mentioned above - which came out at about the time Call Me By Your Name was released - has this paragraph towards the end.
If he is guilty of sexual misconduct, and is tried and found guilty, so be it. (I think the cannibalism is a load of hooey.) And you can even take all his other films (none of which I've been impressed by, to be honest - I probably didn't even notice him). But please leave me Elio and Oliver and that film.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:25 PM on February 4, 2021 [10 favorites]
Call Me By Your Name is one of my favorite movies ever. Ever. It affected me profoundly, and still does. Timmy Chalamet was the biggest reason (he was astoundingly good and absolutely deserved that Best Actor Oscar nomination), but on my most recent rewatch I was realizing "oh but Armie is really good here too." And he was - in the earlier scenes he is basically channelling the smug rich dudebro that by all accounts he is, but in later scenes there is a vulnerability there, the exact kind of vulnerability that his character would have - that someone who's fallen in love would have.
I don't have it in me to dislike this film, and I don't know if I'd have it in me to dislike his character in it, or his performance in it. This isn't the first time I've run into the "separate the art from the artist" question, but it's the first time it's concerned a film I'm so close to.
But the Buzzfeed article mentioned above - which came out at about the time Call Me By Your Name was released - has this paragraph towards the end.
A post-Weinstein Hollywood isn’t just about naming and removing abusers. It’s about illuminating the processes that have, for decades, allowed Hollywood’s interior logic — about who gets second chances, who’s allowed to be a star, who’s allowed to kiss or have sex scenes, who can “handle” a big budget, what sort of stories will resonate — to endure and to excuse itself.It's entirely possible I'm clinging to this to absolve myself for still loving that movie. But this....feels right. Boycotting the films of a given actor if that actor was a fucknuckle doesn't really punish the actor as much - and it also punishes the rest of the people in the film, and does nothing to get at the root cause - the system that lets the fucknuckles get away with it if they're a straight white guy.
That doesn’t mean boycotting Call Me by Your Name, a film that operates outside that logic and deserves to be evaluated independently from its star, in the same way Hammer has repeatedly asked not to be judged by the movies he appears in. But it does call for us to interrogate the Hammer narrative built upon it — and the narratives of so many other male stars, directors, and producers who’ve been afforded not only the benefit of the doubt, but the confidence that their work is valuable, is worth investing in, is worth taking a chance on, no matter their past failures or inexperience.
If he is guilty of sexual misconduct, and is tried and found guilty, so be it. (I think the cannibalism is a load of hooey.) And you can even take all his other films (none of which I've been impressed by, to be honest - I probably didn't even notice him). But please leave me Elio and Oliver and that film.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:25 PM on February 4, 2021 [10 favorites]
That Lone Ranger flick he did with Johnny Depp for Disney is just all sorts of awful.
agrees, raises 'BUT!' finger..
the train scene is a masterclass in action editing, cinematography, and scoring. No defense of him; I guess it would have been implausible just to give the pistol to the horse. The rest is garbage tho; that scene being in that movie is like a five course meal that's inedible, except for the dinner rolls which are amazing.
Was also a fan of the Man from UNCLE subversion of the usual 1960's KGB and CIA spies doing dick-measuring contest scene. It doesn't have to match.
For the rest, sounds like Generic Handsome Actor, Infinite Monies, Has Punchable Face, Should Not Tweet. No stakes here, resume punching.
posted by bartleby at 8:33 PM on February 4, 2021 [11 favorites]
agrees, raises 'BUT!' finger..
the train scene is a masterclass in action editing, cinematography, and scoring. No defense of him; I guess it would have been implausible just to give the pistol to the horse. The rest is garbage tho; that scene being in that movie is like a five course meal that's inedible, except for the dinner rolls which are amazing.
Was also a fan of the Man from UNCLE subversion of the usual 1960's KGB and CIA spies doing dick-measuring contest scene. It doesn't have to match.
For the rest, sounds like Generic Handsome Actor, Infinite Monies, Has Punchable Face, Should Not Tweet. No stakes here, resume punching.
posted by bartleby at 8:33 PM on February 4, 2021 [11 favorites]
You can't just say "actual cannibal Shia LaBoeuf" and not include the chorus. There are laws.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:33 PM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:33 PM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
Extracted from the previous post on the blue: "Fortune's Children", a photo feature in Vanity Fair in which Armie is shown along with some fellow rich kids, at least a couple of whom are, hmm, a bit more notorious now.
I took the bait, started the photo crawl, click, click, nothing, click, click, I don't know these people, click click, OHJESUSFUCKNONOTTHESETWOFUCKWADS!
posted by Ber at 8:33 PM on February 4, 2021 [8 favorites]
I took the bait, started the photo crawl, click, click, nothing, click, click, I don't know these people, click click, OHJESUSFUCKNONOTTHESETWOFUCKWADS!
posted by Ber at 8:33 PM on February 4, 2021 [8 favorites]
"Also, does Eyebrows McGee host a PR firm?"
Naw, I just love reading celebrity gossip, not so much because I care about the celebrities, but because I find it really fascinating to watch how they manipulate their images. The "rehabilitate a gross man whose sex life is suddenly public" playbook is tried and true and rarely deviates.
IMO, it makes you a much savvier politics-watcher if you also watch celebrity gossip, because the image-building and agenda-setting and damage-control playbooks are all exactly the same, just with different media outlets.
Anyway, People Magazine is particularly interesting to watch, because it has the largest circulation by quite a bit and it has some very talented journalists, BUT it's heavily reliant on access journalism. So with big stories, you can triangulate a little bit how someone's currently perceived in Hollywood based on People's stories vs. other outlets. For example, when Brad Pitt's PR team went on a massive PR blitz and was placing pro-Pitt stories in lower-tier outlets (some of them very well-sourced!), People wasn't biting, and wasn't running any those stories, even though they clearly could have gotten on-the-record quotes from Pitt's team. Because they judged that maintaining access to Angelina Jolie was more important than carrying water for Pitt, and that Pitt would need People more than People needed Pitt. (And, indeed, I went and looked at the front page of People just now to see what Armie Hammer stories they were running, and a re-reported interview from Vogue featuring Angelina Jolie is the #3 story.)
But anyway, if you search People for Armie Hammer, they reported his statement of denial BUT included a bunch of Armie-unfriendly quotes when doing so, and they have a LOT of stories about who's being cast in his other roles and who's made a statement about him sucking, and the top two results are his ex-wife being horrified by these revelations, at MUCH greater length than they gave Armie's "side" of the story, which suggests that People currently cares more about access to Armie's barely-famous wife than Armie Hammer. Which does not bode well for Armie.
So I'd be on the lookout for an Armie Hammer scandal People cover story in the next 12 weeks or so, and it'll be very interesting to see a) who's on the cover and how they're lit (good lighting and glamour is for good celebrities; bad celebrities get ominous lighting or grainy pap shots); and b) whether Hammer's team can manage to bring People on-side for a "Armie Hammer is a complicated man who has done some screwing up buuuuuuut [a bunch of sympathetic stuff that acknowledges he fucked up but begins his rehabilitation]" or whether People reports out an interview with one or several of his exes ("My Heart Was Broken!" cover quote, subtitle "Jane Smith breaks her silence on Armie Hammer's shocking scandal" -- People is not putting "cannibalism" on the cover, although US Weekly will, I bet!) in a 5- or 6-page package, which will include a half-page and very flattering photo of whatever ex goes on the record playing with her dog or her toddler in a grassy green park, because wholesome.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:57 PM on February 4, 2021 [132 favorites]
Naw, I just love reading celebrity gossip, not so much because I care about the celebrities, but because I find it really fascinating to watch how they manipulate their images. The "rehabilitate a gross man whose sex life is suddenly public" playbook is tried and true and rarely deviates.
IMO, it makes you a much savvier politics-watcher if you also watch celebrity gossip, because the image-building and agenda-setting and damage-control playbooks are all exactly the same, just with different media outlets.
Anyway, People Magazine is particularly interesting to watch, because it has the largest circulation by quite a bit and it has some very talented journalists, BUT it's heavily reliant on access journalism. So with big stories, you can triangulate a little bit how someone's currently perceived in Hollywood based on People's stories vs. other outlets. For example, when Brad Pitt's PR team went on a massive PR blitz and was placing pro-Pitt stories in lower-tier outlets (some of them very well-sourced!), People wasn't biting, and wasn't running any those stories, even though they clearly could have gotten on-the-record quotes from Pitt's team. Because they judged that maintaining access to Angelina Jolie was more important than carrying water for Pitt, and that Pitt would need People more than People needed Pitt. (And, indeed, I went and looked at the front page of People just now to see what Armie Hammer stories they were running, and a re-reported interview from Vogue featuring Angelina Jolie is the #3 story.)
But anyway, if you search People for Armie Hammer, they reported his statement of denial BUT included a bunch of Armie-unfriendly quotes when doing so, and they have a LOT of stories about who's being cast in his other roles and who's made a statement about him sucking, and the top two results are his ex-wife being horrified by these revelations, at MUCH greater length than they gave Armie's "side" of the story, which suggests that People currently cares more about access to Armie's barely-famous wife than Armie Hammer. Which does not bode well for Armie.
So I'd be on the lookout for an Armie Hammer scandal People cover story in the next 12 weeks or so, and it'll be very interesting to see a) who's on the cover and how they're lit (good lighting and glamour is for good celebrities; bad celebrities get ominous lighting or grainy pap shots); and b) whether Hammer's team can manage to bring People on-side for a "Armie Hammer is a complicated man who has done some screwing up buuuuuuut [a bunch of sympathetic stuff that acknowledges he fucked up but begins his rehabilitation]" or whether People reports out an interview with one or several of his exes ("My Heart Was Broken!" cover quote, subtitle "Jane Smith breaks her silence on Armie Hammer's shocking scandal" -- People is not putting "cannibalism" on the cover, although US Weekly will, I bet!) in a 5- or 6-page package, which will include a half-page and very flattering photo of whatever ex goes on the record playing with her dog or her toddler in a grassy green park, because wholesome.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:57 PM on February 4, 2021 [132 favorites]
Okay, went from weirdest thing today to one of my favorite things today.
I actually hate celebrity gossip, this is the first time I've felt interested.
You just made something super annoying actually interesting.
Merci
posted by firstdaffodils at 9:05 PM on February 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
I actually hate celebrity gossip, this is the first time I've felt interested.
You just made something super annoying actually interesting.
Merci
posted by firstdaffodils at 9:05 PM on February 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
Okay - the cannibalism stuff was, I believe, ultimately false. As in, the person who initially made the claim then later tweeted out a follow-up that she'd made it up.I believe this is incorrect. After the first cannibal allegations, a doctored screenshot of some fake DMs was circulated by some of his fans showing the alleged victim admitting it was made up.
I...don't know what to say about the other stuff.
I believe two ex girlfriends have gone on the record alleging physical and emotional abuse and confirmed his cannibal fantasies so I wouldn't extend the benefit of the doubt to him.
posted by zymil at 9:12 PM on February 4, 2021 [19 favorites]
agrees, raises 'BUT!' finger..
the train scene
Holy shit. I've never seen the film (I mean, seriously, eww), but that video made me sit through the train sequence twice. If anything, having the explanation with text, low key and not interfering with the scene running the first time, then having the same scene play immediately after with just the score isolated, it really hammers home all of the fantastic breakdown of the scene.
I mean, damn, that was an education. If nothing else, this thread has given me that. And since the thread is about a child of incredible wealth and privilege turning out to have been (shocker) a loathsome arrogant man demanding the world love him... at least I got to see the youtube clip...
posted by Ghidorah at 9:15 PM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
the train scene
Holy shit. I've never seen the film (I mean, seriously, eww), but that video made me sit through the train sequence twice. If anything, having the explanation with text, low key and not interfering with the scene running the first time, then having the same scene play immediately after with just the score isolated, it really hammers home all of the fantastic breakdown of the scene.
I mean, damn, that was an education. If nothing else, this thread has given me that. And since the thread is about a child of incredible wealth and privilege turning out to have been (shocker) a loathsome arrogant man demanding the world love him... at least I got to see the youtube clip...
posted by Ghidorah at 9:15 PM on February 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
Daaaaang Eyebrows, that is some stone-cold-blooded ruthless observation there. I absolutely adore and respect it.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:27 PM on February 4, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:27 PM on February 4, 2021 [8 favorites]
IMO, it makes you a much savvier politics-watcher if you also watch celebrity gossip
Absolutely, and has been for a good long while, and especially in the modern era with the invention of the field of public relations. What's interesting with regards to celebrity journalism has been how much it's been able to envelop challenges to the ecosystem such as the usage of social media to circumvent the publicity track and its costs, with the fiction of presenting more authenticity (not for nothing before 2015, no 'big' stars would deign to be present on socmedia because what for? Now of course, even Will Smith is a youtuber). I mean, for a good while the agenda-setting did seem to favour the influencer instruments (which mainstream political journalism never seemed to learn and kept being on the backfoot with Trump's twitter activity) but now major signal-pushing is back in their court even if they don't make much money anymore, just like everyone else in media.
That said tho, us plebes can still can get overheated in the theorising, or else the various fandom tinhats wouldn't have had so much currency.
posted by cendawanita at 9:42 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
Absolutely, and has been for a good long while, and especially in the modern era with the invention of the field of public relations. What's interesting with regards to celebrity journalism has been how much it's been able to envelop challenges to the ecosystem such as the usage of social media to circumvent the publicity track and its costs, with the fiction of presenting more authenticity (not for nothing before 2015, no 'big' stars would deign to be present on socmedia because what for? Now of course, even Will Smith is a youtuber). I mean, for a good while the agenda-setting did seem to favour the influencer instruments (which mainstream political journalism never seemed to learn and kept being on the backfoot with Trump's twitter activity) but now major signal-pushing is back in their court even if they don't make much money anymore, just like everyone else in media.
That said tho, us plebes can still can get overheated in the theorising, or else the various fandom tinhats wouldn't have had so much currency.
posted by cendawanita at 9:42 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
His PR team is desperately trying to spin horrifying sexual abuse into “wah wah stop kink shaming him”.
But when every ex girlfriend and his soon to be EX WIFE (who in most scenarios would much rather him have a successful movie career because alimony), is going on record supporting the rampant abuse evidence that’s out there, you know it’s true and this guy is screwed.
If he even gets cast in so much as a budget tv ad voiceover from this point on, he’s doing too well for my liking.
posted by Jubey at 10:07 PM on February 4, 2021 [8 favorites]
But when every ex girlfriend and his soon to be EX WIFE (who in most scenarios would much rather him have a successful movie career because alimony), is going on record supporting the rampant abuse evidence that’s out there, you know it’s true and this guy is screwed.
If he even gets cast in so much as a budget tv ad voiceover from this point on, he’s doing too well for my liking.
posted by Jubey at 10:07 PM on February 4, 2021 [8 favorites]
This Variety article is so vague (fear of libel suit?) that I'm having trouble understanding what the exact accusations are. I really don't care if he has cannibal fantasies (well, I find it deeply squicky and wouldn't date him, but that's not in the offing); I do care if he's been abusing his partners. Is there a more detailed report from a reputable journalist?
(I thought at the time that the AHP stuff made him sound like the beneficiary of an unquestionably crappy dynamic in Hollywood and in broader society, and entitled, but not...evil.)
posted by praemunire at 10:16 PM on February 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
(I thought at the time that the AHP stuff made him sound like the beneficiary of an unquestionably crappy dynamic in Hollywood and in broader society, and entitled, but not...evil.)
posted by praemunire at 10:16 PM on February 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
Okay - the cannibalism stuff was, I believe, ultimately false.
His ex-girlfriend has said that cannibal fantasies were his idea of pillow talk::
"While Vucekovich, who dated Hammer from June to October, couldn’t confirm whether those specific screenshots were legitimate, she said they were no surprise. “He likes the idea of skin in his teeth,” she claims."
Setting that aside, the article I posted contains much more concerning, actually abusive stuff.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:20 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
His ex-girlfriend has said that cannibal fantasies were his idea of pillow talk::
"While Vucekovich, who dated Hammer from June to October, couldn’t confirm whether those specific screenshots were legitimate, she said they were no surprise. “He likes the idea of skin in his teeth,” she claims."
Setting that aside, the article I posted contains much more concerning, actually abusive stuff.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:20 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
...okay, I had heard the cannibal references in passing on twitter, and had assumed that it was some kind of ooh I'm so transgressive thing where he had eaten, like, a bit of skin from someone's biopsy or whatever, not actual creepy serial killer level fantasies.
posted by tavella at 10:27 PM on February 4, 2021
posted by tavella at 10:27 PM on February 4, 2021
BTW It's worth going back and reading Anne Helen Petersen's 2017 article posted above:
“Nate (Parker) had stuff in his past, which is heinous and tough to get beyond. I get that,” Hammer continued. “But that was when he was 18, and now he’s in director’s jail. At the same time, the guy who went and won an Academy Award has three cases of sexual assault against him.” (Hammer was referring to Casey Affleck, who, in 2010, settled a lawsuit brought by two women alleging sexual misconduct, and won an Oscar for his performance in Manchester by the Sea.)
Here, Hammer is once again narrativizing his career: unjust Hollywood, that’s why Armie Hammer didn’t happen. He’s even scared it’s going to happen again, as Call Me by Your Name, and the sexual dynamics within, has become shadowed by various allegations hanging over all of Hollywood, including Kevin Spacey’s harassment and abuse of young and underage men. “Given my history,” Hammer said, “I’m waiting for the other shoe to drop.”
posted by oneirodynia at 10:39 PM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
“Nate (Parker) had stuff in his past, which is heinous and tough to get beyond. I get that,” Hammer continued. “But that was when he was 18, and now he’s in director’s jail. At the same time, the guy who went and won an Academy Award has three cases of sexual assault against him.” (Hammer was referring to Casey Affleck, who, in 2010, settled a lawsuit brought by two women alleging sexual misconduct, and won an Oscar for his performance in Manchester by the Sea.)
Here, Hammer is once again narrativizing his career: unjust Hollywood, that’s why Armie Hammer didn’t happen. He’s even scared it’s going to happen again, as Call Me by Your Name, and the sexual dynamics within, has become shadowed by various allegations hanging over all of Hollywood, including Kevin Spacey’s harassment and abuse of young and underage men. “Given my history,” Hammer said, “I’m waiting for the other shoe to drop.”
posted by oneirodynia at 10:39 PM on February 4, 2021 [5 favorites]
When this stuff first was coming out, I genuinely thought it was some sort of QAnon attack since they're really into the conspiracy of Hollywood elites sacrifcing babies and drinking blood to stay young. But then there seems to be some sort of truth to the cannibalism fantasies and other stuff being revealed about him. So, ick. And I'm extra mad because I really was hoping QAnon was imploding and I'm afraid this kind of stuff will add fuel to the fire.
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 10:45 PM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 10:45 PM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
I mean, Johnny Depp can't, but he got away with it because he was an entertaining and weird rude dick; Hammer's just a rich guy everyone wanted to punch in high school
Some performers find success by lucking into exactly the right roles to suit their individual persona. Kevin Costner got early success* playing a humourless fed (The Untouchables) and a humourless DA (JFK). It was later efforts to play a medieval bandit or a fish-man that revealed the dental-floss-narrow width of his gifts.
Armie Hammer has been pretty generic and forgettable in everything I have seen him in where he wasn’t playing a rich white guy with a punchable face. I’d say his career apex was The Social Network, where he plays two rich white guys — intriguingly, both with the same punchable face.
*Of course, for many of us, the first time we saw Kevin Costner onscreen was in his minor role as the corpse in The Big Chill; another role for which he was fully capable of delivering the goods.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:52 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
Some performers find success by lucking into exactly the right roles to suit their individual persona. Kevin Costner got early success* playing a humourless fed (The Untouchables) and a humourless DA (JFK). It was later efforts to play a medieval bandit or a fish-man that revealed the dental-floss-narrow width of his gifts.
Armie Hammer has been pretty generic and forgettable in everything I have seen him in where he wasn’t playing a rich white guy with a punchable face. I’d say his career apex was The Social Network, where he plays two rich white guys — intriguingly, both with the same punchable face.
*Of course, for many of us, the first time we saw Kevin Costner onscreen was in his minor role as the corpse in The Big Chill; another role for which he was fully capable of delivering the goods.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:52 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
But, Bull Durham
posted by Windopaene at 11:01 PM on February 4, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by Windopaene at 11:01 PM on February 4, 2021 [12 favorites]
And Tin Cup: Costner plays best when he's not taken too seriously.
Which is a bit of a derail.
I find it impossible to even identify Hammer as an individual: he's just another cardboard white Hollywood dude to me. This whole story is weird and horrifying.
posted by suelac at 11:08 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Which is a bit of a derail.
I find it impossible to even identify Hammer as an individual: he's just another cardboard white Hollywood dude to me. This whole story is weird and horrifying.
posted by suelac at 11:08 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Eyebrows McGee: "People is not putting "cannibalism" on the cover"
Successful cannibalism means People on the inside, anyway.
posted by chavenet at 1:10 AM on February 5, 2021 [60 favorites]
Successful cannibalism means People on the inside, anyway.
posted by chavenet at 1:10 AM on February 5, 2021 [60 favorites]
Maybe I'm an old fuddy duddy, but sex scandal is maybe not the right term to describe the controversy around Armie Hammer. This seems more like potential serial killer controversy.
pretty sure a history of boundary-pushing, consent violations, and being a man are all (alone or together) better predictors of murder than vore fantasies
posted by inire at 2:40 AM on February 5, 2021 [6 favorites]
pretty sure a history of boundary-pushing, consent violations, and being a man are all (alone or together) better predictors of murder than vore fantasies
posted by inire at 2:40 AM on February 5, 2021 [6 favorites]
... if he perceives himself as being even slightly disrespected by a woman, he will pursue that for YEARS and take revenge over and over again for the ego injury.
Jesus, are you saying he's going to run for President?
posted by From Bklyn at 2:45 AM on February 5, 2021 [10 favorites]
Jesus, are you saying he's going to run for President?
posted by From Bklyn at 2:45 AM on February 5, 2021 [10 favorites]
Please, Hammer, don't eat 'em.
posted by emelenjr at 4:50 AM on February 5, 2021 [25 favorites]
posted by emelenjr at 4:50 AM on February 5, 2021 [25 favorites]
Sex Scandal
Euphemisms just want to retire to a nice place in the country after a thousand lifetimes of labour carrying shitty white men on their back.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 5:51 AM on February 5, 2021 [5 favorites]
Euphemisms just want to retire to a nice place in the country after a thousand lifetimes of labour carrying shitty white men on their back.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 5:51 AM on February 5, 2021 [5 favorites]
Smarmy Hammer
posted by TedW at 6:05 AM on February 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by TedW at 6:05 AM on February 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
add me to the list of people who hadn't heard about the guy until that Twitter cannibalism thing and who are perfectly OK with him going away again
posted by thelonius at 6:20 AM on February 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 6:20 AM on February 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
Is there any chance that this is all a misunderstanding that got out of hand, based initially on someone saying "eat the rich?"
posted by Spathe Cadet at 6:22 AM on February 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Spathe Cadet at 6:22 AM on February 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
I love how most people forget the film he was in that was most financially successful - and he was in that TWICE.
I'm referring to the Social Network.
I don't think that makes him a good actor.
Most of the comments from this very thread, seem to suggest he has his own reality distortion field in that his performances seem to slide from memory almost as you watch him - but I've not seen the Lone Ranger and he supposedly out-awfulled Johnny Depp in that which takes some level of skill at *something*.
posted by Faintdreams at 6:58 AM on February 5, 2021
I'm referring to the Social Network.
I don't think that makes him a good actor.
Most of the comments from this very thread, seem to suggest he has his own reality distortion field in that his performances seem to slide from memory almost as you watch him - but I've not seen the Lone Ranger and he supposedly out-awfulled Johnny Depp in that which takes some level of skill at *something*.
posted by Faintdreams at 6:58 AM on February 5, 2021
Speaking of Real Cannibal Shia Lebeouf, he doesn't know how to treat women right either.
posted by AzraelBrown at 6:59 AM on February 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by AzraelBrown at 6:59 AM on February 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
“He’s not Tom Cruise”
so at least he has that going for him
All that means is that he doesn't have a contract stipulation requiring the movie be at least 15% footage of him running.
posted by srboisvert at 7:29 AM on February 5, 2021
so at least he has that going for him
All that means is that he doesn't have a contract stipulation requiring the movie be at least 15% footage of him running.
posted by srboisvert at 7:29 AM on February 5, 2021
Some performers find success by lucking into exactly the right roles to suit their individual persona. Kevin Costner got early success* playing a humourless fed (The Untouchables) and a humourless DA (JFK). It was later efforts to play a medieval bandit or a fish-man that revealed the dental-floss-narrow width of his gifts.
To be fair he excelled at playing a very humourless fish-man.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 7:46 AM on February 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
To be fair he excelled at playing a very humourless fish-man.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 7:46 AM on February 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
Hopefully this results in higher Google results for the good Armand Hammer.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 8:12 AM on February 5, 2021
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 8:12 AM on February 5, 2021
I'm so out of it, I thought 'actual cannibal Shia LeBoeuf' was an allegation, not a dumb novelty song.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:20 AM on February 5, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:20 AM on February 5, 2021 [5 favorites]
"At the time I didn't really buy the cannibalism thing, but also kind of shrugged and immediately didn't give a shit because surely hollywood can find another vaguely handsome white guy to replace him."
This is how I feel, minus the race component. Everyone in media is expendable. There are 7+ billion people in the world and billions of them are creative, talented, and unique in the same ways as literally anyone you could ever name in entertainment history. I'll never shed a tear for anyone "cancelled" because of the content of their character or actions, everyone's only got so much bandwidth to spare on celebrities and public figures, when one steps down, the void was already filled before we noticed.
Essentially because we have way more talent than need for talent, we can raise the behavioural standards for it as arbitrarily high as you want. Jaywalk one time? Sorry, we can find someone who ain't yet. Didn't share enough in kindergarten? Yikes, we got some good kids over here instead who an act just as well.
Hell, now that I'm thinking about it, I'd be cool with a blanket cancelling of just every actor or actress who already has too much money. Like, don't even wrap up production of stuff, just sub in the new batch of actors immediately. Really ,given how many people there are to take the spotlight without opportunity, it kind of seems wrong to just let these same rich bastards get roles over and over again while so many cannot yet are just as capable, or possibly more so.
posted by GoblinHoney at 8:21 AM on February 5, 2021 [10 favorites]
This is how I feel, minus the race component. Everyone in media is expendable. There are 7+ billion people in the world and billions of them are creative, talented, and unique in the same ways as literally anyone you could ever name in entertainment history. I'll never shed a tear for anyone "cancelled" because of the content of their character or actions, everyone's only got so much bandwidth to spare on celebrities and public figures, when one steps down, the void was already filled before we noticed.
Essentially because we have way more talent than need for talent, we can raise the behavioural standards for it as arbitrarily high as you want. Jaywalk one time? Sorry, we can find someone who ain't yet. Didn't share enough in kindergarten? Yikes, we got some good kids over here instead who an act just as well.
Hell, now that I'm thinking about it, I'd be cool with a blanket cancelling of just every actor or actress who already has too much money. Like, don't even wrap up production of stuff, just sub in the new batch of actors immediately. Really ,given how many people there are to take the spotlight without opportunity, it kind of seems wrong to just let these same rich bastards get roles over and over again while so many cannot yet are just as capable, or possibly more so.
posted by GoblinHoney at 8:21 AM on February 5, 2021 [10 favorites]
the train scene is a masterclass in action editing, cinematography, and scoring.
and, oh my god, is that the incredibly brilliant Ruth Wilson in this film? Her Marisa Coulter in His Dark Materials is just riveting and layered and perfect.
Ugh, am I going to have to watch Lone Ranger now...?
posted by the sobsister at 9:09 AM on February 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
and, oh my god, is that the incredibly brilliant Ruth Wilson in this film? Her Marisa Coulter in His Dark Materials is just riveting and layered and perfect.
Ugh, am I going to have to watch Lone Ranger now...?
posted by the sobsister at 9:09 AM on February 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
" 'streets ahead" Also, can't tell if you're British, making fun of me, or like the show Community a lot. Maybe it's all three.
That's enough internet for this weekend.
posted by firstdaffodils at 10:01 AM on February 5, 2021
That's enough internet for this weekend.
posted by firstdaffodils at 10:01 AM on February 5, 2021
No, they're 'streets ahead'...
Nah, TMZ said they were fetch, yesterday.
But TMZ is streets behind; fetch never happened.*
On topic: that picture of Hammer with recent ex Courtney Vucekovich (halfway down the article) is terrifying, talk about a dead-eyed abuser.
* - [On preview, I'm assuming it's a Community reference. It's verbal wildfire, after all.]
posted by LooseFilter at 10:07 AM on February 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
Nah, TMZ said they were fetch, yesterday.
But TMZ is streets behind; fetch never happened.*
On topic: that picture of Hammer with recent ex Courtney Vucekovich (halfway down the article) is terrifying, talk about a dead-eyed abuser.
* - [On preview, I'm assuming it's a Community reference. It's verbal wildfire, after all.]
posted by LooseFilter at 10:07 AM on February 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
OK, so. Despite the eminently quotable line about his height and weight, he wasn’t actually in The Social Network twice. There was another actor, Josh something or other, and they basically deepfaked Armie Hammer’s face onto him. So. Presumably the raw footage with the other guy still exists. Why don’t they take that and deepfake the other guy’s face onto Armie Hammer’s body, and then Social Network will be all good again?
posted by kevinbelt at 10:07 AM on February 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 10:07 AM on February 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
Some performers find success by lucking into exactly the right roles to suit their individual persona. Kevin Costner got early success* playing a humourless fed (The Untouchables) and a humourless DA (JFK). It was later efforts to play a medieval bandit or a fish-man that revealed the dental-floss-narrow width of his gifts.
Because I find the Kevin Costner derail more interesting than the FPP itself (Hammer's fault, not folklore724's), I agree with your overall point and add that Costner got lucky by accidentally getting cast in some seriously terrific movies where he was not asked to stretch beyond his narrow range. My favorite of those is No Way Out, where Costner's inherent blandness is the very quality that makes the ultimate twist so effective.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:15 AM on February 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
Because I find the Kevin Costner derail more interesting than the FPP itself (Hammer's fault, not folklore724's), I agree with your overall point and add that Costner got lucky by accidentally getting cast in some seriously terrific movies where he was not asked to stretch beyond his narrow range. My favorite of those is No Way Out, where Costner's inherent blandness is the very quality that makes the ultimate twist so effective.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:15 AM on February 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
I was looking through the trending subjects and came across Armie Hammer. I will not be looking again for the rest of the day. --@DionneWarwickposted by DirtyOldTown at 10:50 AM on February 5, 2021 [16 favorites]
People is not putting "cannibalism" on the cover
I mean, that would be like waving a red flag in front of a bull.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:14 AM on February 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
I mean, that would be like waving a red flag in front of a bull.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:14 AM on February 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
(psst, when I said "mean girls references are fetch", it was in the spirit of the film: meaning they're over or never happened. It was a case in point. But good catch. Also, I literally never watch or read TMZ and wrote that material myself. 👌
Community, "trying? Coined and minted!" Relevant clip for this thread. Ok. Over)
posted by firstdaffodils at 11:14 AM on February 5, 2021
Community, "trying? Coined and minted!" Relevant clip for this thread. Ok. Over)
posted by firstdaffodils at 11:14 AM on February 5, 2021
the sobsister: The Lone Ranger flick is extremely boring. That train sequence is pretty cool, but I was surprised by how dull the film was. On the other hand, I remember hating Lone Ranger reruns in my youth. They were 90% people in homesteader houses or sheriff's offices talking, talking, talking and about 10% lame action. So maybe the film is a loving homage to the teevee show?
posted by SoberHighland at 11:48 AM on February 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by SoberHighland at 11:48 AM on February 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
Tbh, he'll probably just get an ironic role as a cannibal in some film, then start working again.
posted by firstdaffodils at 12:14 PM on February 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by firstdaffodils at 12:14 PM on February 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
I feel like recently so many things I love have been milkshake ducked. I don't particularly care about Armie Hammer but I really love the Man from Uncle movie.
posted by PussKillian at 12:22 PM on February 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by PussKillian at 12:22 PM on February 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
To Piggyback on Eyebrows McGee's god-level analysis, magazines and websites change who they cover and how they cover them. I'm not in the publishing or film industry, but my friends are!
Use Hammer as a test case and he'll be covered VERY differently in each. Here are some things I noticed:
Hollywood Reporter: Defends status quo, rehabs bad men's reputations, great pics and coverage from lower level crew members.
There is a lot of whining about the good old days. The founder had a ridiculous life involving spying on competitors, the Mob, and other unethical behavior.
People: Confessionals from people who are not criminals, baby and wedding announcements, carefully managed divorce content. Nothing too sexual or disturbing beyond a few Missing Child/domestic violence stories.
Overall it is news to comfort a suburban empty nester or someone who is planning their wedding. I can remember when they had trashy pics of people drunk or high. Also so many 1980s interviewees casually discussing drugs. No more!
PageSix: Real Housewives PR firm, the trashy side of B-list lawsuits and divorces. Some bad men rehab. All bad news about theater and newspeople is bound to be here. Snarky and conservative as hell. The polar opposite of People. If it was a person, it would be a drunk, twice divorced uncle who is sometimes funny.
Vogue: Just discovered minorities exist and are good for business! Interviews are getting a little deeper and longer. Great pics of course. If it was a person, a low level socialite who could easily befriend Ivanka Trump.
Vanity Fair: Great coverage of crazy low level royalty and con artists. Way more glam coverage of minorities and LGBT. Probably won't see a Kennedy family or Marilyn Monroe cover again anytime soon. Too many Annie Liebowitz pics.
posted by Freecola at 1:12 PM on February 5, 2021 [5 favorites]
Use Hammer as a test case and he'll be covered VERY differently in each. Here are some things I noticed:
Hollywood Reporter: Defends status quo, rehabs bad men's reputations, great pics and coverage from lower level crew members.
There is a lot of whining about the good old days. The founder had a ridiculous life involving spying on competitors, the Mob, and other unethical behavior.
People: Confessionals from people who are not criminals, baby and wedding announcements, carefully managed divorce content. Nothing too sexual or disturbing beyond a few Missing Child/domestic violence stories.
Overall it is news to comfort a suburban empty nester or someone who is planning their wedding. I can remember when they had trashy pics of people drunk or high. Also so many 1980s interviewees casually discussing drugs. No more!
PageSix: Real Housewives PR firm, the trashy side of B-list lawsuits and divorces. Some bad men rehab. All bad news about theater and newspeople is bound to be here. Snarky and conservative as hell. The polar opposite of People. If it was a person, it would be a drunk, twice divorced uncle who is sometimes funny.
Vogue: Just discovered minorities exist and are good for business! Interviews are getting a little deeper and longer. Great pics of course. If it was a person, a low level socialite who could easily befriend Ivanka Trump.
Vanity Fair: Great coverage of crazy low level royalty and con artists. Way more glam coverage of minorities and LGBT. Probably won't see a Kennedy family or Marilyn Monroe cover again anytime soon. Too many Annie Liebowitz pics.
posted by Freecola at 1:12 PM on February 5, 2021 [5 favorites]
There is no perfect way to fix this but I can see more disgraced people moving from talent-based entertainment (you need to be a decent actor, singer, etc. to be on the cover of People) on to youtube or other social media where they have more control and can literally benefit from controversy. Being an influencer will be a fall back plan instead of being in a weird Bruce Willis action movie.
"I had to do a bunch of travel/mukbang videos because the industry wanted me to apologize for being a man! WAAAH!"
posted by Freecola at 1:28 PM on February 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
"I had to do a bunch of travel/mukbang videos because the industry wanted me to apologize for being a man! WAAAH!"
posted by Freecola at 1:28 PM on February 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
I mean Tom Cruise is reportedly horrid in almost every other way but the man is actually a fairly versatile actor, and you could pick him out of a lineup of generic white dudes. Armie Hammer has neither of those qualities.
posted by aspersioncast at 1:35 PM on February 5, 2021
posted by aspersioncast at 1:35 PM on February 5, 2021
I always find the dismissal of someone's talent after they've been accused of something like this* a bit strange. It feels like it gives the vibe of "is this person good enough at their job for this to be acceptable" instead of "it doesn't matter if they are great at their job or not, what they've done is unacceptable."
* Well, usually not something exactly like this.
posted by No One Ever Does at 1:51 PM on February 5, 2021 [12 favorites]
* Well, usually not something exactly like this.
posted by No One Ever Does at 1:51 PM on February 5, 2021 [12 favorites]
I know this is shallow of me and not hugely relevant, but.....God, my eyes just slide right off of Armie Hammer. Viewing him is like listening to an old TV tuned to a dead channel with all the random static noise...holding your attention after a fashion while it's going on, but leaving zero impression once you're done watching.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:53 PM on February 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:53 PM on February 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
I couldn’t even keep the two dark haired guys with sideburns in Beverly Hills 90210 straight. I am bad at face stuff.
posted by freecellwizard at 3:12 PM on February 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by freecellwizard at 3:12 PM on February 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
For some reason, whenever I saw the name "Armie Hammer," I thought of Artie Lange.
posted by Saxon Kane at 3:32 PM on February 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Saxon Kane at 3:32 PM on February 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
..I don't think McGee is a God, but I do think they're running a low key very successful PR firm, OR, they're a sockpuppet journalist, stirring the internet pot.
posted by firstdaffodils at 4:24 PM on February 5, 2021
posted by firstdaffodils at 4:24 PM on February 5, 2021
wait, we're all burying the lede here: Armand Hammer promised? to make Al Gore President
posted by wpgr at 4:41 PM on February 5, 2021
posted by wpgr at 4:41 PM on February 5, 2021
So you're telling me a guy named Armand Hammer joined the board of directors for a company that owned the brand Arm and Hammer but there was no connection between the names? Is this proof that we live in a simulation?
You do know that the President of Nintendo of America is named Doug Bowser right?
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:47 PM on February 5, 2021 [7 favorites]
You do know that the President of Nintendo of America is named Doug Bowser right?
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:47 PM on February 5, 2021 [7 favorites]
I always find the dismissal of someone's talent after they've been accused of something like this* a bit strange. It feels like it gives the vibe of "is this person good enough at their job for this to be acceptable" instead of "it doesn't matter if they are great at their job or not, what they've done is unacceptable."
This was mentioned in that transgression essay. The writer noted how Martin Amis became uncomfortable with Nabokov's corpus after reviewing his later works which weren't so good. It retroactively coloured his impression of the man and his writing. I think people are always able to overlook things in others if they are able to "deliver the goods" and it is only once they are found to to something exceedingly terrible or they aren't able to deliver anymore that people stop overlooking things and perhaps deciding that they weren't that great to begin with.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:57 PM on February 5, 2021
This was mentioned in that transgression essay. The writer noted how Martin Amis became uncomfortable with Nabokov's corpus after reviewing his later works which weren't so good. It retroactively coloured his impression of the man and his writing. I think people are always able to overlook things in others if they are able to "deliver the goods" and it is only once they are found to to something exceedingly terrible or they aren't able to deliver anymore that people stop overlooking things and perhaps deciding that they weren't that great to begin with.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:57 PM on February 5, 2021
Surviving My Birthright: This is a revealing and inspirational memoir by Casey Hammer, sole granddaughter of the American billionaire, industrialist, art collector and philanthropist Armand Hammer. SURVIVING MY BIRTHRIGHT is a story of hope, love, and the reclamation of empowerment.
(and as I understand, describes a lot of abuse)
posted by armacy at 5:03 PM on February 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
(and as I understand, describes a lot of abuse)
posted by armacy at 5:03 PM on February 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
it is only once they are found to do something exceedingly terrible or they aren't able to deliver anymore that people stop overlooking things and perhaps deciding that they weren't that great to begin with.
See M. Night Shyamalan (by all accounts a good person and decent family man) post-Signs for me personally and post-The Village for what it seems the whole film critic class. Nolan's approaching that event horizon himself.
posted by cendawanita at 6:42 PM on February 5, 2021
See M. Night Shyamalan (by all accounts a good person and decent family man) post-Signs for me personally and post-The Village for what it seems the whole film critic class. Nolan's approaching that event horizon himself.
posted by cendawanita at 6:42 PM on February 5, 2021
From Soraya McDonald's twitter:
His publicist AND his agent dropped him?
Yeah, that man got a body in a freezer
So maybe gird yourselves for some even more alarming details or an even worse story to come out, I guess.
posted by yasaman at 7:24 PM on February 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
His publicist AND his agent dropped him?
Yeah, that man got a body in a freezer
So maybe gird yourselves for some even more alarming details or an even worse story to come out, I guess.
posted by yasaman at 7:24 PM on February 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
People: Confessionals from people who are not criminals, baby and wedding announcements, carefully managed divorce content. Nothing too sexual or disturbing beyond a few Missing Child/domestic violence stories.
Overall it is news to comfort a suburban empty nester or someone who is planning their wedding. I can remember when they had trashy pics of people drunk or high. Also so many 1980s interviewees casually discussing drugs. No more!
Of course, they also do the "People Magazine Investigates" shows (both regular and "Cults") on "murder channel" (well, that's what we call it) Investigation Discovery. Granted they probably don't make the cover, but do they feature said stories in the actual magazine as well?
posted by gtrwolf at 7:44 PM on February 5, 2021
Overall it is news to comfort a suburban empty nester or someone who is planning their wedding. I can remember when they had trashy pics of people drunk or high. Also so many 1980s interviewees casually discussing drugs. No more!
Of course, they also do the "People Magazine Investigates" shows (both regular and "Cults") on "murder channel" (well, that's what we call it) Investigation Discovery. Granted they probably don't make the cover, but do they feature said stories in the actual magazine as well?
posted by gtrwolf at 7:44 PM on February 5, 2021
yasaman, the deuxmoi instagram account got some messages (posted in their stories) saying there is career ending worse to come soon.
posted by ellieBOA at 12:15 AM on February 6, 2021
posted by ellieBOA at 12:15 AM on February 6, 2021
So I had never heard of this guy before but I’m now planning to start a business selling citric acid powder under the brand name “Navy Screwdriver.”
posted by spitbull at 3:46 AM on February 6, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 3:46 AM on February 6, 2021 [4 favorites]
I always find the dismissal of someone's talent after they've been accused of something like this* a bit strange. It feels like it gives the vibe of "is this person good enough at their job for this to be acceptable" instead of "it doesn't matter if they are great at their job or not, what they've done is unacceptable."
Or “no terrible person could be good at their job” - again a poor assumption!
posted by atoxyl at 3:54 AM on February 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
Or “no terrible person could be good at their job” - again a poor assumption!
posted by atoxyl at 3:54 AM on February 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
Armie Hammer's agent and publicist have both dropped him, which certainly sounds ominous
posted by Merus at 5:04 AM on February 6, 2021
posted by Merus at 5:04 AM on February 6, 2021
Who you play in a movie doesn't show who you really are. We know this.
Although... it is a little weird how often I see people whose go-to disbelief moment on Hammer is something approximating "He's a sexual predator? That's so jarring. I loved him in [that film where he played a thirtysomething who gradually coaxes a teenager into a sexual relationship.]"
(That's not the most charitable read of the film, obviously, but it's not a stretch either.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:47 AM on February 6, 2021 [4 favorites]
Although... it is a little weird how often I see people whose go-to disbelief moment on Hammer is something approximating "He's a sexual predator? That's so jarring. I loved him in [that film where he played a thirtysomething who gradually coaxes a teenager into a sexual relationship.]"
(That's not the most charitable read of the film, obviously, but it's not a stretch either.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:47 AM on February 6, 2021 [4 favorites]
The writer noted how Martin Amis became uncomfortable with Nabokov's corpus after reviewing his later works which weren't so good. It retroactively coloured his impression of the man and his writing.
Did Nabokov also have cannibalism fantasies? I'm sort of missing how this is a relevant comparison to Hammer...
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:14 AM on February 6, 2021
Did Nabokov also have cannibalism fantasies? I'm sort of missing how this is a relevant comparison to Hammer...
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:14 AM on February 6, 2021
HOW IT STARTED:
If he ain’t killed and et someone yet, he’s not gonna.HOW IT’S GOING:
His publicist AND his agent dropped him?posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 11:45 AM on February 6, 2021 [4 favorites]
Yeah, that man got a body in a freezer
Did Nabokov also have cannibalism fantasies? I'm sort of missing how this is a relevant comparison to Hammer...
I don't know anything about Nabokov but he wrote Lolita and I'm guessing perhaps the comparison has more to do with the writing possibly revealing that his fantasies maybe aren't just fantasies? Or that the fantasies are enough to make you reconsider a person's character or talent?
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 2:34 PM on February 6, 2021
I don't know anything about Nabokov but he wrote Lolita and I'm guessing perhaps the comparison has more to do with the writing possibly revealing that his fantasies maybe aren't just fantasies? Or that the fantasies are enough to make you reconsider a person's character or talent?
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 2:34 PM on February 6, 2021
"I always find the dismissal of someone's talent after they've been accused of something like this a bit strange."
I get it, but people have been pretty "meh" on Armie Hammer since he was first appearing on Gossip Girl. (Hence Petersen's whole article whose thesis was "stop trying to make Armie Hammer happen.") He's handsome and looks good in still photos, and he's an okay-enough actor who sometimes stumbles into roles that suit him really well, but for whatever reason, he doesn't "pop" in a leading role the way a movie star needs to. (The way Chalamet -- who isn't traditional-movie-star handsome -- absolutely does.)
He's most frequently compared to Henry Cavill -- another classically-movie-star-handsome dude who's a good-enough actor, but can't quite manage to rocket into super-star status. (I mean, yes, he's Superman and has headlined movies, but he isn't box-office gold.)
But Cavill is reputed to be the nicest guy in the world, on and off set. He's said to be easy to work with, hardworking, not a prima donna, goofy and chill. He works his butt off on the publicity circuit for his films, and entertainment journalists like him because he understands they're doing their jobs and works with them. Hammer is, well, none of those things. So it's understandable that bad reviews of Cavill in leading roles always have an undertone of "man, I really wanted this to be better and I hope they cast him in a better role for him next time" and bad reviews of Hammer in leading roles are always like, "Please just stop putting this guy in movies." And definitely understandable that people are dunking on Hammer's back catalog.
Also I really, really wanted to like "Rebecca" because I love that book and I really enjoy Lily James, but GOD Hammer's energy was weird in that movie, and they had zero chemistry, and I'm not sure the director knew what he wanted the movie to be about. I mean it's a bad movie, you can't hang it all on Hammer, but he's like a weird wooden mannequin. There are going to be forty bazillion think pieces on "Rebecca" as his last starring role before the scandal broke, because it's a about a really fucked up wealthy white dude who murders his wife and claims she manipulated him into doing it, who whisks a 20-years-younger woman into marriage after two weeks without telling her his deal, AND he may or may not have been having an affair with Lily James during filming AND the rumors of their affair really dominated the (disastrous) press tour for the movie, and Hammer just seemed to kind-of shrug about the whole thing. (But at this point if they discover Hammer actually shot an extra and sank her boat in the sea off Cornwall, nobody's going to be surprised.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:03 PM on February 6, 2021 [7 favorites]
I get it, but people have been pretty "meh" on Armie Hammer since he was first appearing on Gossip Girl. (Hence Petersen's whole article whose thesis was "stop trying to make Armie Hammer happen.") He's handsome and looks good in still photos, and he's an okay-enough actor who sometimes stumbles into roles that suit him really well, but for whatever reason, he doesn't "pop" in a leading role the way a movie star needs to. (The way Chalamet -- who isn't traditional-movie-star handsome -- absolutely does.)
He's most frequently compared to Henry Cavill -- another classically-movie-star-handsome dude who's a good-enough actor, but can't quite manage to rocket into super-star status. (I mean, yes, he's Superman and has headlined movies, but he isn't box-office gold.)
But Cavill is reputed to be the nicest guy in the world, on and off set. He's said to be easy to work with, hardworking, not a prima donna, goofy and chill. He works his butt off on the publicity circuit for his films, and entertainment journalists like him because he understands they're doing their jobs and works with them. Hammer is, well, none of those things. So it's understandable that bad reviews of Cavill in leading roles always have an undertone of "man, I really wanted this to be better and I hope they cast him in a better role for him next time" and bad reviews of Hammer in leading roles are always like, "Please just stop putting this guy in movies." And definitely understandable that people are dunking on Hammer's back catalog.
Also I really, really wanted to like "Rebecca" because I love that book and I really enjoy Lily James, but GOD Hammer's energy was weird in that movie, and they had zero chemistry, and I'm not sure the director knew what he wanted the movie to be about. I mean it's a bad movie, you can't hang it all on Hammer, but he's like a weird wooden mannequin. There are going to be forty bazillion think pieces on "Rebecca" as his last starring role before the scandal broke, because it's a about a really fucked up wealthy white dude who murders his wife and claims she manipulated him into doing it, who whisks a 20-years-younger woman into marriage after two weeks without telling her his deal, AND he may or may not have been having an affair with Lily James during filming AND the rumors of their affair really dominated the (disastrous) press tour for the movie, and Hammer just seemed to kind-of shrug about the whole thing. (But at this point if they discover Hammer actually shot an extra and sank her boat in the sea off Cornwall, nobody's going to be surprised.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:03 PM on February 6, 2021 [7 favorites]
"Or “no terrible person could be good at their job” - again a poor assumption!"
Yeah. People really need to separate the art from the artist. Of course, the work has to be valuable enough for the art to maintain interest in the first place, and there's reasonability within this (see Bill Cosby)
But, if people stopped using all inventions (daily inventions.. such as the lightbulb, or toilet), because their creators were unethical (or only ethical for their time period), their schedule and immediate culture would change, quite a lot.
People are complex.
..all expressed, this guy is uh, really complex.
Maybe they can star him in roles cannabillizing women. (note: please don't.)
", AND he may or may not have been having an affair with Lily James during filming AND the rumors of their affair really dominated the (disastrous) press tour for the movie, and Hammer just seemed to kind-of shrug about the whole thing" also, maybe this affects his path. .. I don't know, I don't know him.
posted by firstdaffodils at 3:15 PM on February 6, 2021
Yeah. People really need to separate the art from the artist. Of course, the work has to be valuable enough for the art to maintain interest in the first place, and there's reasonability within this (see Bill Cosby)
But, if people stopped using all inventions (daily inventions.. such as the lightbulb, or toilet), because their creators were unethical (or only ethical for their time period), their schedule and immediate culture would change, quite a lot.
People are complex.
..all expressed, this guy is uh, really complex.
Maybe they can star him in roles cannabillizing women. (note: please don't.)
", AND he may or may not have been having an affair with Lily James during filming AND the rumors of their affair really dominated the (disastrous) press tour for the movie, and Hammer just seemed to kind-of shrug about the whole thing" also, maybe this affects his path. .. I don't know, I don't know him.
posted by firstdaffodils at 3:15 PM on February 6, 2021
I agree with the occasional discomfort over using revelations over a public figure's bad behavior as an opportunity to dunk on their work in a way that suggests the two are somehow correlated.
That said, I will hypocritically add that I'm still kind of mad that they cast him as Marty Ginsburg.
posted by eponym at 3:16 PM on February 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
That said, I will hypocritically add that I'm still kind of mad that they cast him as Marty Ginsburg.
posted by eponym at 3:16 PM on February 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
Yeah. People really need to separate the art from the artist. Of course, the work has to be valuable enough for the art to maintain interest in the first place, and there's reasonability within this (see Bill Cosby)
I mean... they really don't need to. If watching Armie Hammer makes you think about his life off screen to the point of distraction then why watch him? Kinda ruins the movie. And take that times a thousand if what someone's done off screen reminds you of your own traumas. It's not homework we're assigned, nobody has to sit and watch an abuser on screen and think about abuse they've experienced.
Everybody's got their own messy complicated inconsistent lines with this but nobody has to give any asshole a moment of their time for the sake of art. Plenty of enjoyable things to do out there, plenty of other artists and other art.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:48 PM on February 6, 2021 [13 favorites]
I mean... they really don't need to. If watching Armie Hammer makes you think about his life off screen to the point of distraction then why watch him? Kinda ruins the movie. And take that times a thousand if what someone's done off screen reminds you of your own traumas. It's not homework we're assigned, nobody has to sit and watch an abuser on screen and think about abuse they've experienced.
Everybody's got their own messy complicated inconsistent lines with this but nobody has to give any asshole a moment of their time for the sake of art. Plenty of enjoyable things to do out there, plenty of other artists and other art.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:48 PM on February 6, 2021 [13 favorites]
I completely support this statement, alongside the statement I made, particularly second para.
Suggesting separating art from artist encourages more critical thinking about how art is and can be made.
Literally no one should endorse or support and artist that makes them uncomfortable or harms them.
It's why Bill Cosby's retained, and not making more shows involving kids saying the darndest things. Hope this clarifies. Was trying to find the middle ground.
posted by firstdaffodils at 4:03 PM on February 6, 2021
Suggesting separating art from artist encourages more critical thinking about how art is and can be made.
Literally no one should endorse or support and artist that makes them uncomfortable or harms them.
It's why Bill Cosby's retained, and not making more shows involving kids saying the darndest things. Hope this clarifies. Was trying to find the middle ground.
posted by firstdaffodils at 4:03 PM on February 6, 2021
it is a little weird how often I see people whose go-to disbelief moment on Hammer is something approximating "He's a sexual predator? That's so jarring. I loved him in [that film where he played a thirtysomething who gradually coaxes a teenager into a sexual relationship.]" (That's not the most charitable read of the film, obviously, but it's not a stretch either.)
Er, in the film you're thinking of he played a twentysomething and it was the teenager who did most of the coaxing, so I think it is a bit of a stretch.
(This is a defense of the film and not the actor currently under discussion.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:37 PM on February 6, 2021
Er, in the film you're thinking of he played a twentysomething and it was the teenager who did most of the coaxing, so I think it is a bit of a stretch.
(This is a defense of the film and not the actor currently under discussion.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:37 PM on February 6, 2021
*Of course, for many of us, the first time we saw Kevin Costner onscreen was in his minor role as the corpse in The Big Chill; another role for which he was fully capable of delivering the goods.
“…and Kevin Costner as ‘The Corpse’: 14 cases of actors getting cut entirely from notable films
posted by Guy Smiley at 6:20 PM on February 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
“…and Kevin Costner as ‘The Corpse’: 14 cases of actors getting cut entirely from notable films
posted by Guy Smiley at 6:20 PM on February 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
he wrote Lolita and I'm guessing perhaps the comparison has more to do with the writing possibly revealing that his fantasies maybe aren't just fantasies? Or that the fantasies are enough to make you reconsider a person's character or talent?
Hope this isn't too much of a derail... but there's never been (afaik) any evidence that Nabokov was a pedophile (or ephebophile, if you want to get pedantic), no more so than there is evidence that he was the exiled king of Zembla (Pale Fire). So I still don't get how "Martin Amis thought Nabokov's later books were crap, so that made him rethink his opinion of Nabokov as a novelist" is at all comparable to "Mediocre actor Armie Hammer was revealed to be a serial abuser with dangerous sexual fantasies, so that's made people even less interested in mediocre actor Armie Hammer."
posted by Saxon Kane at 7:51 PM on February 6, 2021 [8 favorites]
Hope this isn't too much of a derail... but there's never been (afaik) any evidence that Nabokov was a pedophile (or ephebophile, if you want to get pedantic), no more so than there is evidence that he was the exiled king of Zembla (Pale Fire). So I still don't get how "Martin Amis thought Nabokov's later books were crap, so that made him rethink his opinion of Nabokov as a novelist" is at all comparable to "Mediocre actor Armie Hammer was revealed to be a serial abuser with dangerous sexual fantasies, so that's made people even less interested in mediocre actor Armie Hammer."
posted by Saxon Kane at 7:51 PM on February 6, 2021 [8 favorites]
It's pretty strange when people are surprised that actors behave differently in real life than in their roles. It's like hey, this person is literally a professional liar.
posted by medusa at 5:10 AM on February 7, 2021
posted by medusa at 5:10 AM on February 7, 2021
Basically, peak white male wealthy privileged asshole who is awfully pretty.
posted by theora55 at 7:49 AM on February 7, 2021
posted by theora55 at 7:49 AM on February 7, 2021
Eyebrows McGee,
It's funny how the public can have two entirely different views of a celebrity. Out of the two UNCLE actors, I always thought Cavill had the worse reputation--specifically with regards to (young) women. I hadn't really heard anything about Hammer until recently (the stuff happening around Rebecca and now the cannibal comments). Mind you, I don't pay too much attention to celebrity gossip, but I do try to be generally aware of what's happening.
posted by sardonyx at 10:10 AM on February 7, 2021 [3 favorites]
It's funny how the public can have two entirely different views of a celebrity. Out of the two UNCLE actors, I always thought Cavill had the worse reputation--specifically with regards to (young) women. I hadn't really heard anything about Hammer until recently (the stuff happening around Rebecca and now the cannibal comments). Mind you, I don't pay too much attention to celebrity gossip, but I do try to be generally aware of what's happening.
posted by sardonyx at 10:10 AM on February 7, 2021 [3 favorites]
Anne Helen Peterson responds with Thirteen Years & Three Months of Trying to Make Armie Hammer Happen.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:17 AM on February 7, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:17 AM on February 7, 2021 [4 favorites]
Thirteen Years & Three Months of Trying to Make Armie Hammer Happen - Anne Helen Petersen's Culture Study, Feb. 7, 2017, coda to her "Ten Long Years of Trying to Make Armie Hammer Happen" BuzzFeed piece from Nov. 2017. Closing:
I’m writing this today because Hammer was dropped by his publicist and his agent earlier this week, and there are rumors ricocheting off the corners of the internet of a story, about to drop, that will mark the indubitable end of his career. But I have no faith in the end of any white male star or his enduring chances in Hollywood, and neither should you. So long as our attachment to individual stars makes us resistant to questioning the existing dynamics of power, this is the scenario we are going to reproduce. [...] Hammer could’ve just as easily have become an Academy Award winner and a demi-celebrated actor for the ages. That scenario was very much his for the taking, because until very recently, his behavior could and would’ve been covered up. Celebrities have used social media to wrest control of their images back from the gossip press, but in so doing, they have embraced the liability of permanent records of their own dumb actions.
Still, I don’t think that means we’ve entered a new age of accountability. It just means that celebrities (and their handlers) are getting smarter about the traces of bad behavior. Hammer was sloppy with the receipts the way someone accustomed to getting away with shit is sloppy, the way someone with a massive family fortune to fall back on is sloppy. Publicists will learn from this but it will teach him nothing. [...] I don’t need to be told I was prescient about Hammer. I need you to listen to the people who are telling you as much about others in Hollywood today, and remain ever cognizant of who you, yourself, are giving fifth, sixth, seventh chances to — and who, by your casual viewing choices, your casual comments, your unexamined understanding of your own “tastes,” you’ve never let happen at all.
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:19 AM on February 7, 2021 [5 favorites]
I’m writing this today because Hammer was dropped by his publicist and his agent earlier this week, and there are rumors ricocheting off the corners of the internet of a story, about to drop, that will mark the indubitable end of his career. But I have no faith in the end of any white male star or his enduring chances in Hollywood, and neither should you. So long as our attachment to individual stars makes us resistant to questioning the existing dynamics of power, this is the scenario we are going to reproduce. [...] Hammer could’ve just as easily have become an Academy Award winner and a demi-celebrated actor for the ages. That scenario was very much his for the taking, because until very recently, his behavior could and would’ve been covered up. Celebrities have used social media to wrest control of their images back from the gossip press, but in so doing, they have embraced the liability of permanent records of their own dumb actions.
Still, I don’t think that means we’ve entered a new age of accountability. It just means that celebrities (and their handlers) are getting smarter about the traces of bad behavior. Hammer was sloppy with the receipts the way someone accustomed to getting away with shit is sloppy, the way someone with a massive family fortune to fall back on is sloppy. Publicists will learn from this but it will teach him nothing. [...] I don’t need to be told I was prescient about Hammer. I need you to listen to the people who are telling you as much about others in Hollywood today, and remain ever cognizant of who you, yourself, are giving fifth, sixth, seventh chances to — and who, by your casual viewing choices, your casual comments, your unexamined understanding of your own “tastes,” you’ve never let happen at all.
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:19 AM on February 7, 2021 [5 favorites]
gtrwolf, Yes People has diversified, but they don't generally cover grisly things in the magazine. The new channels are part of their brand extension.
They don't have graphic details the way PageSix and the Enquirer do. They are known for working closely with PR firms who provide positive details on engagement rings, births, etc.
The fact that an experienced publicist won't touch him means a "tough divorce/privacy invaded" redemption story is almost impossible. There are special PR firms for crises that could swoop in.
I predict civil lawsuits coming any day now. The Variety article quoted multiple lawyers, which would be odd for a story that is not going to get even more negative and complex. Lots of projects for the next 2 years are being affected.
posted by Freecola at 4:22 PM on February 7, 2021
They don't have graphic details the way PageSix and the Enquirer do. They are known for working closely with PR firms who provide positive details on engagement rings, births, etc.
The fact that an experienced publicist won't touch him means a "tough divorce/privacy invaded" redemption story is almost impossible. There are special PR firms for crises that could swoop in.
I predict civil lawsuits coming any day now. The Variety article quoted multiple lawyers, which would be odd for a story that is not going to get even more negative and complex. Lots of projects for the next 2 years are being affected.
posted by Freecola at 4:22 PM on February 7, 2021
The internet rumors Anne Helen Petersen references are that he killed multiple people in the California desert while working in construction last year!
posted by Scram at 10:50 PM on February 7, 2021
posted by Scram at 10:50 PM on February 7, 2021
I think the rumor she is referencing is the broader rumor that something else big is going to come out. The person who posted the earlier DMs said it’s real and bad. People are getting... weirdly hyped up about it? The story about him being connected to actual murders is a specific rumor that‘s come out of the speculation but I’m not sure there’s any corroboration on that bit from anybody who would actually know something?
posted by atoxyl at 1:26 AM on February 8, 2021
posted by atoxyl at 1:26 AM on February 8, 2021
Deux Moi's instagram stories have commenters saying the timelines don't match.
posted by ellieBOA at 2:38 AM on February 8, 2021
posted by ellieBOA at 2:38 AM on February 8, 2021
I feel like he'd have been arrested by now if his publicist and agent and all these other people around him knew for a fact that he was a murderer. I mean he is the whitest white guy, but I mostly don't think even that would have the cops sit on their hands in a case this high profile.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:48 AM on February 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 4:48 AM on February 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Hope this isn't too much of a derail... but there's never been (afaik) any evidence that Nabokov was a pedophile (or ephebophile, if you want to get pedantic), no more so than there is evidence that he was the exiled king of Zembla (Pale Fire). So I still don't get how "Martin Amis thought Nabokov's later books were crap, so that made him rethink his opinion of Nabokov as a novelist" is at all comparable
It’s referencing Amis’ review of The Original of Laura (Nabokov’s last-released/unfinished book) in which he suggests - well, maybe not that Nabokov was a pedophile, but that it was a theme that he notably returned to in several books, and that in writing about it one last time badly he makes the more acclaimed books look more sordid in retrospect.
posted by atoxyl at 7:47 AM on February 8, 2021
It’s referencing Amis’ review of The Original of Laura (Nabokov’s last-released/unfinished book) in which he suggests - well, maybe not that Nabokov was a pedophile, but that it was a theme that he notably returned to in several books, and that in writing about it one last time badly he makes the more acclaimed books look more sordid in retrospect.
posted by atoxyl at 7:47 AM on February 8, 2021
atoxyl: thanks for the clarification :)
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:01 AM on February 8, 2021
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:01 AM on February 8, 2021
I never cared a single butt for Armie Hammer -- I never saw what Nicole Cliffe saw in him -- and yet now I am checking Twitter to see if the other shoe has dropped. The rumors are bad.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:22 AM on February 8, 2021
posted by Countess Elena at 9:22 AM on February 8, 2021
I have to admit I'm checking Twitter now and then for it too despite knowing I shouldn't, but holy hell does it bum me out to see how many people are both buying into the rumors and thinking it's a fantastic time to crack jokes about them.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:45 AM on February 8, 2021
posted by jason_steakums at 11:45 AM on February 8, 2021
Apparently the cops have said he's not a suspect in the straight up murder rumors, it's in the Sun though so I'm not giving them clicks. I really hope this isn't some new gross PR thing where they intentionally start horrendous false rumors just to make the real awful news seem less bad in comparison and discredit allegations people have made.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:49 PM on February 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 2:49 PM on February 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Dan Savage on Armie Hammer (mp3 link).
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:46 AM on February 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:46 AM on February 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
The story about him being connected to actual murders is a specific rumor that‘s come out of the speculation but I’m not sure there’s any corroboration on that bit from anybody who would actually know something?
so to be clear, we're talking about an uncorroborated rumor that's come out of speculation and (some) people are still willing to grant the guy at least some benefit of doubt. What is wrong with (some) people?
posted by philip-random at 8:31 AM on February 9, 2021
so to be clear, we're talking about an uncorroborated rumor that's come out of speculation and (some) people are still willing to grant the guy at least some benefit of doubt. What is wrong with (some) people?
posted by philip-random at 8:31 AM on February 9, 2021
"so to be clear, we're talking about an uncorroborated rumor that's come out of speculation and (some) people are still willing to grant the guy at least some benefit of doubt. What is wrong with (some) people?"
I'm not sure I fully understand your comment. Speculation and uncorroborated rumor is exactly why one gives someone the benefit of the doubt for something as serious as murder. Anyone can tweet something like "His publicist AND his agent dropped him? Yeah, that man got a body in a freezer" but that doesn't mean he actually killed someone.
There's no doubt at this point that he's an abusive asshole and should be reviled as such and that his career deserves to go down in flames and arrested for the abuse he's done (like the carving/branding thing). But there's still an unsubstantiated leap being made as to whether or not he's actually murdered anyone.
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 1:54 PM on February 9, 2021
I'm not sure I fully understand your comment. Speculation and uncorroborated rumor is exactly why one gives someone the benefit of the doubt for something as serious as murder. Anyone can tweet something like "His publicist AND his agent dropped him? Yeah, that man got a body in a freezer" but that doesn't mean he actually killed someone.
There's no doubt at this point that he's an abusive asshole and should be reviled as such and that his career deserves to go down in flames and arrested for the abuse he's done (like the carving/branding thing). But there's still an unsubstantiated leap being made as to whether or not he's actually murdered anyone.
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 1:54 PM on February 9, 2021
Presumably the idea is that you'd have to do something REALLY BAD to be a handsome rich white actor and get dropped this hard.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:19 AM on February 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:19 AM on February 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
I do think there are going to be further ugly revelations, but a bunch of entertainment journalists have pointed out that Armie Hammer isn't a big moneymaker for his agency. None of his movies have been big box-office hits (though a few received critical acclaim); he can't headline a movie; he's not part of a franchise like Star Wars or Mission Impossible; he's not a superhero in DC or MCU; he doesn't even have a season-long run on a TV show that pays residuals. If you're a Tom Cruise, who headlines movies and has a franchise, your agency and studios and the rest of Hollywood will stick their necks out a lot farther, and put up with a lot more bad behavior, because you make them money.
But Armie Hammer doesn't make that kind of money, and there are just so many much-less-problematic random white guy actors who can play the roles he plays, and the public will shrug -- who goes to see a J.Lo movie for Armie Hammer? NOBODY, we're all there for J.Lo. They're not going to have to suddenly recast an Avenger. They're not having to rewrite the script on a Star War spinoff to get him out. So it's a lot easier to get studios and agencies to see that he's a bad person (than, say, Johnny Depp), because their paycheck doesn't depend on ignoring that.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:39 AM on February 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
But Armie Hammer doesn't make that kind of money, and there are just so many much-less-problematic random white guy actors who can play the roles he plays, and the public will shrug -- who goes to see a J.Lo movie for Armie Hammer? NOBODY, we're all there for J.Lo. They're not going to have to suddenly recast an Avenger. They're not having to rewrite the script on a Star War spinoff to get him out. So it's a lot easier to get studios and agencies to see that he's a bad person (than, say, Johnny Depp), because their paycheck doesn't depend on ignoring that.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:39 AM on February 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'm seeing noise on twitter that supposedly deuxmoi recently posted that the LA Times exposé is not happening for various reasons. I'm not linking to anything because I don't use instagram or follow deuxmoi so all I saw on twitter were random people posting screenshots of deuxmoi's post and that seemed too many steps removed to link to a source.
Anyway, whether or not the supposed bombshell story will ever be released to the public remains to be seen.
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 8:08 PM on February 11, 2021
Anyway, whether or not the supposed bombshell story will ever be released to the public remains to be seen.
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 8:08 PM on February 11, 2021
The Independent's timeline of Hammer allegations starts with the Jan. 10 @HouseofEffie Instagram posts, and has the bulk of the developments in reporting on 1 page.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:20 PM on February 12, 2021
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:20 PM on February 12, 2021
« Older Beautiful, graceful, gender-norm-challenging dance | "I dance, as if I have a gun to my head" Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Lexica at 6:23 PM on February 4, 2021 [15 favorites]