When should you end a conversation? Probably sooner than you think
March 1, 2021 1:30 PM   Subscribe

People Literally Don’t Know When to Shut Up—or Keep Talking, Science Confirms (Scientific American): We are really bad at navigating a key transition point during one of the most basic social interactions. "Mastroianni and his colleagues found that only 2 percent of conversations ended at the time both parties desired, and only 30 percent of them finished when one of the pair wanted them to. In about half of the conversations, both people wanted to talk less, but their cutoff point was usually different. Participants in both studies reported, on average, that the desired length of their conversation was about half of its actual length. To the researchers’ surprise, they also found that it is not always the case that people are held hostage by talks: In 10 percent of conversations, both study participants wished their exchange had lasted longer. And in about 31 percent of the interactions between strangers, at least one of the two wanted to continue." When should you end a conversation? Probably sooner than you think (Science)
posted by not_the_water (262 comments total) 71 users marked this as a favorite
 
This is hilarious. I feel so seen.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:39 PM on March 1, 2021 [23 favorites]


Finding out it’s not just me is incredibly comforting.
posted by Homeskillet Freshy Fresh at 1:45 PM on March 1, 2021 [22 favorites]


We don't need conversation starters, we need conversation enders.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:51 PM on March 1, 2021 [19 favorites]


We don't need conversation starters, we need conversation enders.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
posted by GuyZero at 1:54 PM on March 1, 2021 [76 favorites]


"Why are we talking?" seems like an offensive way to start a conversation, but it's a perfectly reasonable question.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:58 PM on March 1, 2021 [9 favorites]


I know Adam, I've talked to him about these experiments for years, I had no idea it was published! He says it is not fun to talk about this at parties, because then everyone wants him to tell them scientifically when their conversation should end and when everyone is no longer interested, and it gets awkward.
posted by little onion at 2:00 PM on March 1, 2021 [66 favorites]


Isn't this a power dynamics thing? (Without reading the article)

Like the studies that show that bosses send shorter emails, and underlings send longer ones. Or people with more social power call first and people with less social power pick up the call, and people with more social power tend to hang up first and the calls they initiate tend to be longer.

Way back when I remember the telephone companies even figured out who the 'influencers' were by who was hanging up first/the length of the call, and would offer perks to people with social power if they would use their services. We used to argue whether this was, like, fair.
posted by subdee at 2:01 PM on March 1, 2021 [11 favorites]


What always annoys me in these kinds of situations is that I'll give cues that I want to end the conversation, the other party doesn't pick up on them and then after much too long I have to just say "well I need to go now" and the conversation just ends instead of there being some kind of natural transition to an ending-state which we could have had if the other person picked up on the cues.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:04 PM on March 1, 2021 [17 favorites]


The correct time to end a conversation is just before the first "well, actually" is uttered.
posted by betweenthebars at 2:05 PM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]


We don't need conversation starters, we need conversation enders.

A simple phrase I've learned from my wife, who is unquestionably a master at its use: "I'll let you go." She mainly uses it on the phone with her parents but it has wide-ranging applications.
posted by notswedish at 2:08 PM on March 1, 2021 [71 favorites]


OK, thanks. Bye.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:11 PM on March 1, 2021 [3 favorites]


This is a backdoor play to convince us that sending one word response emails is good.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:13 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]


TL;DR
posted by TedW at 2:22 PM on March 1, 2021 [7 favorites]


Nice to hear that neurotypicals have this too.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 2:33 PM on March 1, 2021 [29 favorites]


I know Adam, I've talked to him about these experiments for years,

Well, that's probably too long.
posted by aws17576 at 2:34 PM on March 1, 2021 [184 favorites]


I definitely use "I'll let you go" as "I want to go".
posted by Merus at 2:35 PM on March 1, 2021 [19 favorites]


Nice to hear that neurotypicals have this too.

More evidence for my pet theory that neurotypicals systematically overestimate how good they actually are at judging social cues.
posted by BungaDunga at 2:41 PM on March 1, 2021 [81 favorites]


I should let you go now...
posted by Splunge at 2:47 PM on March 1, 2021 [5 favorites]


"Do you smell something burning?"
posted by chavenet at 2:47 PM on March 1, 2021 [3 favorites]


"l'll let you go" works so well. Similarly, "Let me get out of your way" when someone is in my way.
posted by emelenjr at 2:48 PM on March 1, 2021 [7 favorites]


Of course, even as I am a bit cynical about this and want to see a replication, I also know that my performed form of social interaction is less “occasional long talks” as it is “many regular short talks” - something that I think the research supports.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:51 PM on March 1, 2021


" When should you end a conversation? Probably sooner than you think

I can take a hint. Bye.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:53 PM on March 1, 2021 [3 favorites]


A simple phrase I've learned from my wife, who is unquestionably a master at its use: "I'll let you go." She mainly uses it on the phone with her parents but it has wide-ranging applications.

we use this one in the Midwest a lot; you can personalize it by using a memory slot in your brain to store whatever the person said they were up to before the call happened, then say "Well, I better let you get back to your jam making / tax accounting / math studying, it's been real great talking to ya"

then, in accordance with Midwestern tradition, we keep talking for another 30-60 minutes during which one or both parties attempts this goodbye another couple-few times, but it'd be real smooth if it worked

maybe try it on your friends from Connecticut, maybe they'll actually let you go the first time thinking "wow how polite"
posted by taquito sunrise at 3:04 PM on March 1, 2021 [59 favorites]


SO LET IT BE WRITTEN. SO LET IT BE DONE!
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 3:04 PM on March 1, 2021 [3 favorites]


because then everyone wants him to tell them scientifically when their conversation should end

"About 10 seconds ago" should stop those questions real quick.
posted by star gentle uterus at 3:06 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]


No, you hang up first.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:12 PM on March 1, 2021 [3 favorites]


This is my cri de coeur.
posted by HotToddy at 3:13 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]


Neutral Janet has it. "This conversation has ended."
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:13 PM on March 1, 2021 [23 favorites]


"l'll let you go" works so well. Similarly, "Let me get out of your way" when someone is in my way.

In the most recent Pee Wee Herman movie he says something like "let me let you let me go" as a way of leaving conversations.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:25 PM on March 1, 2021 [15 favorites]


Metafilter: When should you end a conversation? Probably sooner than you think.
posted by transitional procedures at 3:28 PM on March 1, 2021 [8 favorites]


"I have spoken"
posted by mightshould at 3:32 PM on March 1, 2021 [9 favorites]


There's a role here for title cards, like in old movies: FIN.
posted by MonkeyToes at 3:40 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]


yes I think conversations go on too long too! the paper misses out some key information which
1/432
posted by lalochezia at 3:41 PM on March 1, 2021 [13 favorites]


over and out
posted by achrise at 3:44 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]


Quod dixi, dixi?
posted by ASF Tod und Schwerkraft at 3:49 PM on March 1, 2021


молчание золото
posted by clavdivs at 3:57 PM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:59 PM on March 1, 2021 [46 favorites]


END OF LINE.
posted by Foosnark at 4:04 PM on March 1, 2021 [7 favorites]


write error: Broken pipe
posted by mubba at 4:09 PM on March 1, 2021 [4 favorites]


People still talk to each other?
posted by Jody Tresidder at 4:11 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]


“This is the way.”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:21 PM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]


"Cave Johnson. We're done here."

(My teenage son says that when he wants to leave the dinner table in the middle of a conversation. Is it rude? Yes. Am I a tiny bit proud? Well, yeah.)
posted by The Bellman at 4:27 PM on March 1, 2021 [13 favorites]


This discussion should have ended by now.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 4:43 PM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]


Sadly I can't find a clip of Dan Rydell saying, "At this point, the length of this conversation is way out of proportion to my interest in it."
posted by praemunire at 4:49 PM on March 1, 2021 [10 favorites]


Well, actually...
posted by jquinby at 4:49 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]


"Oh, uhhhh..."
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:58 PM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]


I cannot stand "I'll let you go." It's so transparent and passive-aggressive. Just say, "I have to go" and own it.
posted by kokaku at 4:58 PM on March 1, 2021 [34 favorites]


I remember when you could end conversations by physically leaving in the middle of them.
posted by srboisvert at 4:59 PM on March 1, 2021 [10 favorites]


Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:59 PM on March 1, 2021 [15 favorites]


"I'll let you get back to your rat killin" is a nice Southern turn of phrase.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:59 PM on March 1, 2021 [11 favorites]


I hate text messaging. It’s a poorly constructed
conversation without social cues. 86!
posted by njohnson23 at 4:59 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]


I think that a lot of this is age related. When I was younger I would just say, I gotta go, bye. Then as one gets older, one feels the stress of correct action. Of course 'correct action' is so very variable.

And then the lover's conversation. You hang up. No YOU hang up. No you hang up. No you hang up.

I am thinking that there are people still alive, but barely so, that are still on landlines trying to hang up. May they have peace.
posted by Splunge at 5:06 PM on March 1, 2021 [5 favorites]


My parents will continue a conversation even as I literally leave the room, and then I have to decide whether to straight up walk away, lurk awkwardly in the corridor talking at a distance until they finish, or return to the room whilst still desperate for the bathroom. It feels insanely rude to just walk away mid-sentence but sometimes there is no other way out.
posted by stillnocturnal at 5:09 PM on March 1, 2021 [15 favorites]


Thanks, internet traffic, you're a genius.
posted by firstdaffodils at 5:10 PM on March 1, 2021


Then there are the ones that START UP a topic just as you are reaching for the door knob. As a way of parting? I don't know, but it feels clueless and controlling.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 5:12 PM on March 1, 2021 [14 favorites]


I'll leave you with you.
posted by haemanu at 5:24 PM on March 1, 2021


I cannot stand "I'll let you go." It's so transparent and passive-aggressive.

Yes, I was just thinking about this recently. It's always used on me by people who have called me and then talked for a really long time and I have politely listened while wanting the conversation to be over and then they say this, like they're fishing for me to beg them to keep talking at me.
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 5:32 PM on March 1, 2021 [5 favorites]


A much younger me was once giving some unsolicited advice to a southern gentleman who very effectively drawled, "Thanks for stopping by."
posted by HotToddy at 5:39 PM on March 1, 2021 [10 favorites]


People apparently have some harsh interpretations of "I'll let you go"!

In my part of the world it's "right, I'll let you get on", and the underlying tone has always seemed to me more like "I've enjoyed this, but I know you must have things to do so I won't hold you up any more." My impression is it's a politeness to indicate that you're not leaving just because you're bored of the conversation.
posted by stillnocturnal at 5:49 PM on March 1, 2021 [29 favorites]


stillnocturnal, THIS IS THE WORST. A former work person would do this. It's unfathomable!! How can someone ignore the strongest of all possible cues? I AM LITERALLY WALKING AWAY AND YOU. ARE. STILL. TALKING. Reader, I had to quit that job.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 5:54 PM on March 1, 2021 [12 favorites]


My father says, "Well, I'd better let you go."

And if anyone has ever taken offense, I am unaware of it.
posted by MrJM at 5:55 PM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]


My ex was absolutely horrible at this. She'd engage in this verbal grooming for fucking ever and then make "it's getting late" sounds and moving towards the door motions and then stand in the fucking doorway for another half hour and then by god people would come out to the fucking driveway and hover around the car and chat and then she'd be sitting in the car with the door open and chatting and ... I guess the thing is that no one wanted the conversation to end but me. One of the reasons why she's my ex.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:56 PM on March 1, 2021 [7 favorites]


As a kid, when I used to try to end conversations with my aunts that I found boring, I would never fail to have thrown back at me, "Here's your hat, what's your hurry?" with only half-feigned umbrage having been taken. They had a nose for conversation-closing like it was Limburger. And I grew to love them for their honesty.
posted by SNACKeR at 6:04 PM on March 1, 2021 [3 favorites]


There's a meme floating around which is to answer any call with "hey my battery is almost dead" which allows you to escape at any time, abruptly.
posted by maxwelton at 6:15 PM on March 1, 2021 [31 favorites]


Oh my god I was (pre COVID) surrounded by people at work who kept talking as I walked away, thinking we were done. I assumed I was just rude. (This could still be true).

One woman simply will not end a conversation at all. She will actually start repeating stuff she already said. I have to get up and walk her out of my office and firmly tell her she has to go.

She never takes offense, though, so at least we have a system now.
posted by emjaybee at 6:22 PM on March 1, 2021 [6 favorites]


This'll give me and my MIL plenty to talk about.
posted by The Potate at 6:25 PM on March 1, 2021 [3 favorites]


Yeah, I don't get what's going on in this comment thread. I use "I'll let you go" usually because earlier in the conversation, the person mentions they are up to doing something but don't want to go just yet, so we talk for a bit more, and then when I realize we are getting way too into another conversation, I remind them that they need to do something and go. I've been told that I'm a super easy conversationalist though, but I also mostly listen and pick up on cues. I'm also not afraid to say "I have to go now."
posted by yueliang at 6:32 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]


"I'll let you go" opinion differences have got to be regional? Cultural? It's something my mother, my grandparents, my aunts, etc, always said about 12 time before the midwestern goodbye ritual was complete. I view it as totally normal, and say it now because I'm succumbing to becoming-my-mother-itis.
posted by wellifyouinsist at 6:42 PM on March 1, 2021 [9 favorites]


"So, anyway..." - my mom when she wants to get off the phone
posted by brundlefly at 6:47 PM on March 1, 2021 [3 favorites]


John Hodgman noticed on his I, Claudius podcast that Augustus--the mafia don of that particular imperial family--ended conversations with a friendly "We'll talk more soon" as he got up and left. There are worse strategies.
posted by mark k at 6:49 PM on March 1, 2021 [27 favorites]


I absolutely despise the ‘Well, I’ll let you go...’ thing. It took me literally years to stop replying to this phrase with a confused ‘but... I don’t need to go?’ It’s disingenuous and passive aggressive. Just tell me that you need to go! That’s fine! Stop telling me that I need to go, it’s weird and feels like gaslighting.

And in any case, it’s already been determined that the best way to to end a conversation is to say ‘Would you excuse me? I cut my foot before and my shoe is filling up with blood.’
posted by EXISTENZ IS PAUSED at 7:01 PM on March 1, 2021 [14 favorites]


My Mom just hit me with an absolutely expert one towards the end of our weekly video call just now. "Well, did you want to say bye to the dog too?" except at that point, no one had said bye to anyone yet. Even after all these years, I still have so much to learn from her.
posted by EatTheWeek at 7:01 PM on March 1, 2021 [47 favorites]


She'd engage in this verbal grooming for fucking ever and then make "it's getting late" sounds and moving towards the door motions and then stand in the fucking doorway for another half hour and then by god people would come out to the fucking driveway and hover around the car and chat and then she'd be sitting in the car with the door open and chatting and ... I guess the thing is that no one wanted the conversation to end but me. One of the reasons why she's my ex.

This is my entire family (I live and grew up in the South). Myself included. My favorite one of these was when an acquaintance stopped by to return a book on a Sunday afternoon (pre-Covid) and we did the driveway talk for at least half an hour and finally she was like, "Do you want to go get a drink?" And we ended up hanging out for, like, another five hours.

Reader: she is now one of my best friends.
posted by thivaia at 7:09 PM on March 1, 2021 [10 favorites]


I didn't really think about the phone version of this when I read the articles because it seems so easy to announce any reason why you're getting off the phone. No one can check if it's really time to eat!

I have more trouble in person. I have a reputation as brusque and intimidating so in conversation I try really hard to leave the other person a convenient way out without seeming to end it aggressively. It doesn't work that well so maybe I am not doing as good a job as I would like. I also don't totally mind a boring conversation that goes on too long, so if I think people will read me as rude I just wait it out.

I do find that at a party I can always come up with a food related reason to dip. Need more food, gotta eat the food on my plate before it gets cold, need a drink to go with my food, my spouse is going to eat my food if I don't join him.
posted by Emmy Rae at 7:13 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]


Good talk.
posted by mikelieman at 7:25 PM on March 1, 2021 [9 favorites]


i have imparted that information i had to share and obtained that information i sought to acquire; dismissed.
posted by 20 year lurk at 7:35 PM on March 1, 2021 [7 favorites]


I invented "the question window" for some of my dearest loved ones who will ask about thirty questions in a row rapidfire never pausing to hear the whole answer to any of them. I will have been struggling along gamely trying to participate and answering Q after Q when I become aware of mounting irritability and slowly awake to the understanding that it's happening again. The question window is great because instead of getting into the weeds with a long explanation about how they're not listening or how I am not the omniscient emperor of all space and time who knows every answer, I just say: "Oh geez, wouldn't you know it, the question window closed! I know, it's a shame! Just when things were getting interesting." For the really serious cases there is also a "statement window," but it's rarely used and not many people know about it.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:47 PM on March 1, 2021 [4 favorites]


“I’ve gotta go drop the kids off at the pool” works pretty well no matter what the scenario is.
posted by TedW at 7:52 PM on March 1, 2021 [12 favorites]


If MetaFilter has taught me anything, the right way to end a conversation that has gone on too long is to walk into the next room and start shouting:

"NEW CONVERSATION! The conversation is over HERE now!"
posted by straight at 8:17 PM on March 1, 2021 [54 favorites]


I cannot stand "I'll let you go." It's so transparent and passive-aggressive. Just say, "I have to go" and own it.

This. It's also vaguely a power-grab assumption of agency. Everyone I've known who does this has other equally annoying ways of asserting themselves in conversation that make the whole thing feel transactional. I'd honestly rather someone just hang up on me.

"I'll let you get back to your rat killin"
This is how to do it.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:35 PM on March 1, 2021 [7 favorites]


If you keep hearing “Well, I’ll let you go” and it makes you angry because you weren’t ready to go, there is a nonzero chance that the conversational hostage-taker is you. If you hate hearing it, start checking for the following clues:
  • Other person’s feet are pointed toward an exit
  • Their eyes are glazing over
  • The Zoom meeting ended twenty minutes ago and we are all just talking about your failed side business
  • The other person said “I’d better get going/welp, I’m gonna be late” twenty minutes ago, but you hadn’t had a chance to recount the plot of the boring-ass movie you were describing in scene-by-scene detail
  • It’s 12:30 AM and you’ve launched into your eighth story of the night about the time everyone found out what a sexy badass you were
  • The other person has said nothing in the last hour of this phone call except “uh-huh...wow...no kidding...I see...”
Because here’s the thing: people who take conversational hostages tend to get mopey when you cut off their soporific monologues. I know this. I am related to many of them by blood or marriage.

Chalk it up to ask/guess culture if you must. We guessers are working on our assertiveness, but it can’t hurt you askers to ask yourselves if someone’s just trying to help you save face.
posted by armeowda at 8:45 PM on March 1, 2021 [65 favorites]


My dad always "really had to pee" after long phone calls with my grandma.
posted by aniola at 8:58 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]


I had the most Midwestern goodbye today, I said to my sister-in-law, "I should probably get going," and we both proceeded to attempt to exit the conversation for the next HOUR.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:03 PM on March 1, 2021 [15 favorites]


I personally would like to find more opportunities to use the "That's it for me, folks" strategy, ala George Costanza.
posted by DingoMutt at 9:03 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]


I have just straight up hit “end call” and then claimed it was my battery dying. Desperate times, man.
posted by HotToddy at 9:06 PM on March 1, 2021 [8 favorites]


The message I'm getting from this and the "Zoom interaction" thread from a couple days ago (not to mention quite a few other previous threads) is that we're all living in different universes, no human has the slightest communication style in common with any other, and no interaction method on Earth can avoid somehow managing to mortally offend somebody. Clearly, trying to converse with anyone other than myself is a fraught undertaking ultimately destined for failure. I shall therefore stop making any such attempt, and go back to making stupid jokes to please no-one but myself. I will be taking no questions at this time.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:11 PM on March 1, 2021 [28 favorites]


The best time to end a conversation is 20 minutes ago. The second best time is now.
posted by Phssthpok at 9:13 PM on March 1, 2021 [26 favorites]


> If you keep hearing “Well, I’ll let you go” and it makes you angry because you weren’t ready to go, there is a nonzero chance that the conversational hostage-taker is you.


It doesn’t make me angry because I wasn’t ready to go, it annoys me because it’s weird and confusing. If you need to go, go! No worries, buddy! Just don’t tell me I’m the one who needs to go—it’s discombobulating, like when people project their emotions onto you.
posted by EXISTENZ IS PAUSED at 9:26 PM on March 1, 2021 [14 favorites]


then, in accordance with Midwestern tradition, we keep talking for another 30-60 minutes during which one or both parties attempts this goodbye another couple-few times, but it'd be real smooth if it worked

Midwesterner here. I have lovingly and laughingly told many of my closest friends to shut the fuck up and get out of my house. It's not that I don't wish they could linger another 15 minutes, but I dislike prolonging that ambiguous, transitory moment. It gives my brain the willies. Luckily I have similarly goonish friends who understand and appreciate this approach.

Other than "I'll let you go," I like "Let me get out of your hair," possibly with a "thanks for the chat, hope your [reference to earlier discussion] [verbs] [positively], let me know how it goes" if it's someone I'm more cordial with.

I think there's a really interesting differences between talking and managing a conversation. For example - I and a bud have a conversation, and that's a talk. I and the front desk person at the doctor's have a conversation while they check me in and make sure my insurance is up-to-date - that patter is active management of the interaction. These styles seem to have their own etiquette baked in, and (going by some discussion here) a person can feel insulted if they thought they were having a talk and the conversation was actually being managed.

At the same time though, you can have really meaningful interactions if you weave them together. I have a friend with whom I call weekly, and semi-often, we'll greet each other, agree that we have nothing to discuss, and sign off (active management). And I've had brief and beautiful conversations with folks in clerk/admin type positions if I find a moment to ask about how they decorated their desk or compliment their appearance (real talk).
posted by snerson at 9:30 PM on March 1, 2021 [9 favorites]


“Well, great pâté, but I'm gonna have to motor if I wanna be ready for that funeral.”
posted by theory at 9:33 PM on March 1, 2021 [21 favorites]


I just say, "Fuck off and die". Friends and family members know I'm probably kidding, employers and government officials not so much.
posted by Chitownfats at 9:40 PM on March 1, 2021


“Sorry I have another zoom call I have to join”. This is probably the only thing I’ll miss about the pandemic when I finally get physically back to the office.
posted by piyushnz at 9:42 PM on March 1, 2021 [6 favorites]


Metafilter: [reference to earlier discussion] [verbs] [positively]
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:00 PM on March 1, 2021 [13 favorites]


I cannot stand "I'll let you go." It's so transparent and passive-aggressive. Just say, "I have to go" and own it.


See, from my point of view, the phone caller is the one who needs to end the conversation -- they're the one who started it after all. They've got me by the ear and need to let go of me.
posted by pwnguin at 10:07 PM on March 1, 2021 [5 favorites]


It's not the amount of conversation, it's the quality

which is a thing scientists cannot measure.
posted by polymodus at 10:22 PM on March 1, 2021


"I have to go" isn't sufficient, because you need to say "I want to go, and I need you to not try to prolong this conversation" which is an imposition on the other person in the conversation but I assure you it is necessary.
posted by Merus at 10:26 PM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]


'I'll let you go ...'

You, the manager and owner, are firing me from the conversation?

OK, fine! But I'm filing for unemployment.
posted by jamjam at 10:34 PM on March 1, 2021 [4 favorites]


I just say, "Fuck off and die". Friends and family members know I'm probably kidding, employers and government officials not so much.

"Smell you later!"
posted by mikelieman at 10:38 PM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]


Maybe "I'll let you go" implies not a passive-aggressive way of saying "I've had enough of this conversation", but rather "well, you must have had enough of my blathering by now, so I'll let you go and not waste any more of your time"?
posted by Crane Shot at 10:40 PM on March 1, 2021 [18 favorites]


The first mistake y'all are making is answering the phone at all. Just say your battery is dead or your phone drops calls or you don't get reception at the house. Whatever works. Send an email if you need an answer, that works fine.

If it's in person walk briskly towards an exit while making static noises and saying "I'm driving through a tunnel! You're breaking up!"

If you can't pull that one off, you'll your phone out, look at it, frown, and say "sorry, I have to take this."

Or if you like the person, a cheerful "okay, I love you, bye bye!" Like Elmira from Tiny Toons does wonders.

For everyone else there's a firm, final "Well...BYE!" Like Curly Bill in Tombstone.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 10:52 PM on March 1, 2021 [5 favorites]


“I’ll let you go” is when I realize I’ve started to ramble and I’ve kept them on the phone too long.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 10:53 PM on March 1, 2021 [8 favorites]


I think one of the big schisms in 'I’ll let you go' land is that there are two ways of parsing it. It seems that those taking umbrage read it as 'I will allow you to go', framing it as some sort of power dynamic play.

Alternately, I've always seen it as 'I will let go of you' - an acknowledgement that the person stating the phrase wishes to not overstay their conversational welcome and occupy more of the person's time than is polite/necessary. It has nothing to do with emotional projection, it's just a gracious exit.
posted by FatherDagon at 11:36 PM on March 1, 2021 [32 favorites]


It's even worse when I keep thinking of things to share ... and, without giving the person a chance to react, something else starts to spill out ... and before long they've forgotten a half-dozen related things they wanted to share ...

Afterwards I'll think *damn*. And before long enough, it happens again. Better to be hyperlexic than prolix.
posted by Twang at 11:48 PM on March 1, 2021


I move to close this thread down.
posted by biffa at 1:43 AM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]


Maybe the weird movie cliche of people hanging up the phone without saying goodbye should be more widely adopted? It saves everybody time and effort to hit the red button on a Zoom call when you just can't do it anymore.
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 2:08 AM on March 2, 2021 [6 favorites]


It reminds me of what my late grandfather used to tell hairdressers :
- how would you like your hair cut ?
- in silence.
posted by nicolin at 2:15 AM on March 2, 2021 [11 favorites]


Once I had a long, rather lonely holiday, in which in which I barely talked to anyone for a few weeks.  I came back to work, and sat with my nearby co-workers. That day we had very little actual work to do, so it was an ideal time to surf the web and shoot the shit. Which I did, with my co-worker Mary, for hours

Af first was very much back and forth, she talked, I talked, mostly about books we read or movies we watched, news, etc. When the morning talk jumped over lunch and continued into the afternoon, my subconscious kinda sorta was pinging me "hey, that's enough talk, leave it." But it felt so good to talk and connect with someone else, like stretching after weeks of no exercise. I didn't want to stop.

At one point, I noticed Mary, while still maintaining a smile because she is a nice person, opened her eyes really wide. It was just a split second, but I noticed. She was saying "Ok, ok, enough!" I finally got the hint and shut up and just surfed the web the rest of the time. I left that job not long afterwards, and Mary never did invite conversation like that with me again. I'd worn out my welcome.
posted by zardoz at 3:07 AM on March 2, 2021 [8 favorites]


See, from my point of view, the phone caller is the one who needs to end the conversation -- they're the one who started it after all. They've got me by the ear and need to let go of me.

This is how I always thought it worked, as well.

The "I'll let you go thing" is mildly offensive to me because the people who tend to use it also talk way more than I do. And the person who uses it on me probably also started the conversation (see above). Then, when they are done speaking they very handily dismiss me with this little 'polite' conversation ender (and I, stunned, having never wanted to talk to them in the first place, walk away feeling a bit like I just listened to a speech).
posted by marimeko at 3:26 AM on March 2, 2021 [10 favorites]


I'd be curious to know how different cultures handle these things. I have several German friends and I've gotten used to them abruptly ending our conversations and generally without the lingering niceties we seem to think we need in the United States. It was jarring to me initially but in time I came to realize they meant nothing by it and now I see it as a refreshing reprieve from the awkward encounters here.
posted by drstrangelove at 3:38 AM on March 2, 2021 [5 favorites]


I'll let you guys stop having the "I'll let you go" debate, I'm sure there are many other aspects of the article to discuss.
posted by eustatic at 3:56 AM on March 2, 2021 [14 favorites]


I'm from the Midwest and a super soft asker, so my go-to is to say, "Oh God, I could talk to you for another hour, but we should wrap up. Have a good rest of your [day/evening/weekend/]!" Usually works pretty well.
posted by merriment at 4:38 AM on March 2, 2021 [11 favorites]


I hate "I'll let you go"-- and yes, it might well be because I extend conversations too long.

I hear it as "you fucked up again and there's nothing you can say". I much prefer something like "I need to go now".
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 4:53 AM on March 2, 2021


People are making this too complicated. When I'm done talking to someone I just say "As you were" and hang up or walk away.
posted by drstrangelove at 5:50 AM on March 2, 2021 [5 favorites]


Maybe "I'll let you go" implies not a passive-aggressive way of saying "I've had enough of this conversation", but rather "well, you must have had enough of my blathering by now, so I'll let you go and not waste any more of your time"?

Yes, that's how it's always used on me and I still don't like it because it's presumptuous and jarring.

How much more lovely it would be if these people said, "It's been wonderful talking with you, thanks for the help/listening ear! I have to run but let's talk again soon" or something like that. I'm only too happy to end any conversation with a human, so I'll jump on that with a "Yes, thanks for calling! Bye!"
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 6:31 AM on March 2, 2021 [5 favorites]


"I'll let you go" is really relevant to the article because it's used to politely take responsibility for being the conversation hostage taker (whether true or not), as opposed to other endings which often imply to the other person that they're the one who doesn't know when to stop talking.

I'm kinda baffled at it ever being considered passive-aggressive since to me it reads as a very normal and polite conversation closer. It's like calling "goodbye" passive-aggressive because you're saying leaving is good or something.
posted by randomnity at 6:45 AM on March 2, 2021 [29 favorites]


As has been explained very thoroughly already, for those of us who did NOT want the convo to end, "I'll let you go" is baffling. Just say you want to stop talking. YOU want to go. Own it. I am not a captive animal, if I want off the phone I can go on my own.
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:00 AM on March 2, 2021 [4 favorites]


That is exactly what you are saying though. Maybe it's different if the term isn't commonly used in your area. Pretty much everyone I've ever talked to would see "I want to stop talking now" as extremely rude, but would interpret "I'll let you go" as meaning exactly that, just phrased politely.
posted by randomnity at 7:14 AM on March 2, 2021 [12 favorites]


Remote workplace, endless video conferences, we've all adopted a solid formula for ending calls early: give time back. As in "Well if nobody has any questions, I'll give you 15 minutes back in your day." And if that fails, 1-2 minutes before the end time, someone will interrupt and say something like "good chat, but we want to be respectful of your time so let's take the rest to email".
Those two formulas clearly and effectively put an end to conversations, but in a nice way that shows concern for the other person, like a pro version of "I'll let you go".
posted by Freyja at 7:26 AM on March 2, 2021 [5 favorites]


This is the most metafilter thread ever. And it started so fun.

"I'll let you go" is just a regional way to politely say goodbye. You don't have to like it, it may not feel right to you, but it's not "presumptuous" or "passive-aggressive" or rude. They are ending the conversation with a social nicety, and taking it as anything else or somehow offensive is reading waaaaay too much into it. It means "goodbye"

Seriously nitpicking other people's speech patterns is a conversation I would like to have ended half a thread ago.
posted by stillnocturnal at 7:27 AM on March 2, 2021 [29 favorites]


Or if you like the person, a cheerful "okay, I love you, bye bye!" Like Elmira from Tiny Toons does wonders.

That is doubtless a reference to Alex the parrot. When looking him up to confirm I remembered his name correctly, I spotted this unexpectedly moving note (emphasis mine):
Looking at a mirror, he said "what color", and learned "grey" after being told "grey" six times.[16] This made him the first and only non-human animal to have ever asked a question—and an existential question at that. (Apes who have been trained to use sign-language have so far failed to ever ask a single question.)[17]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:33 AM on March 2, 2021 [14 favorites]


When I'm done talking to someone I just say "As you were" and hang up or walk away.

I picked up "Semper Fi, carry on" with a crisp salute, then walking away, from R. Lee Ermey when he hosted a show called Mail Call on History Channel eons ago (post-Hitler, pre-aliens). It's even better when neither you nor your conversational partner are Marines or in the military at all.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 7:44 AM on March 2, 2021 [3 favorites]


For what it's worth, I think I started hearing "I'll let you go" maybe 20 years ago. It wouldn't surprise me if it's a regionalism which spread, but does anyone else have a timeline?
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 7:46 AM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]


I wonder what is the relationship between conversations going on way too long and ask/guess culture.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:50 AM on March 2, 2021 [6 favorites]


I've seriously, no joke, taken up Commander Sheppard's conversation ender from the Mass Effect games. "I should go."

And oh my god yes please stop fucking talking so much!

My boss has "staff meetings" every week with us. It consists of him holding forth for endless, dragging, boring, pointless, aeons on any random topic that pops into his head as he flits randomly from topic to topic. We once, no exaggeration had a theoretically hour long staff meeting that went from 2pm to 5pm. And work ended at 4:30. But he kept us for another goddamn half hour of blather.

My main coworker is an endless phone talker. I dread taking a call from him because it doesn't matter if he's called me for a brief technical thing or not he will manage to talk about everything going on with his end of the job until I can find an excuse to terminate the conversation. I think he's heard "I should go" often enough he makes up his own jokes about it.

I like talking to people, I do. But a) only to people I actually like not my boss or coworkers, and b) only for a while and then I'm peopled out for a bit.

I need to interact with people to stay human, we all do, but it's exhausting work for me and I do not leave a conversation with anyone but my partner feeling energized. I feel enervated like they were some sort of social vampire dragging out my life force with their endless firehose of words that I'm expected to respond to.

I love text messages, email, and internet interactions. You can just stop whenever you want.

And I've got enough awareness of my own antisocial tendencies that I let conversations drag on past my comfort limit simply because I don't want to be rude or seem antisocial. Plus it takes courage to use "I should go" and end a conversation. I don't want to offend people, and clearly a lot of people really enjoy hearing themselves speak.

So seriously you talky people, try to pay more attention and notice if your audience is giving off "please shut the fuck up so I can leave" vibes. It isn't that I don't like you, or that you're boring, or whatever. But I just don't want to talk as long as you do.

I should go.
posted by sotonohito at 8:04 AM on March 2, 2021 [9 favorites]


...I've gotten used to them abruptly ending our conversations and generally without the lingering niceties we seem to think we need in the United States.

Northern Europeans got the "We're done now" down without fuss.
posted by ovvl at 8:05 AM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]


What I've learned is that there are two types of people - those that can't see 'I'll let you go' as the passive-microaggression it clearly is, and those that stand to wipe.
posted by FatherDagon at 8:08 AM on March 2, 2021 [4 favorites]


I'm from the South and I've heard "let me let you go" and "I'll let you go" all my life -- so basically starting in the 90s -- but it's not quite the silver bullet some of you think. Like...I usually only bring up "I'll let you go" after the conversation has gone stale for 3-5 minutes.
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:08 AM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]


You: I'll let you go
Me: *pulls card*
Me: *the card says "oh no I've got all day!"*
You: *vaporized*
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 8:11 AM on March 2, 2021 [6 favorites]


It's gotta be a serotonin thing. Some people get their sweet sweet chemical jollies from moving their face holes where someone, anyone else can hear them babbling on and just can't stop mainlining it. And from the same interactions, some people get cortisol instead. THANKS BIOLOGY
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:16 AM on March 2, 2021 [14 favorites]


Make it so, number one.

In my ready room, number one.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:20 AM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]


Dear people who hate "I'll let you go". Please stop taking offense at it. It's a desperate attempt by people who want to escape you to frame things in such a way that they won't be punished for wanting to end a conversation. You can argue that it's not a great approach, but it's born of an urge NOT to offend and get socially smacked for being so evil and rude and bad as to want to have someone stop talking at you.

Its the socially introverted person's equivilent to a woman turning down a man making a pass at her by saying "I have a boyfriend".

We don't say "Iet's stop talking" or whatever because past experience has taught us through humiliation and embarrassment that far too often trying to directly end a conversation based on our needs and desires tends to result in the talker being upset with us. Just as many/most women have learned that directly turning down a man can result in that man becoming violently angry so they try to soften it by invoking another man.

We aren't being mean, we're responding to social conditioning that has taught us prioritzing our own comfort is always bad, so we're trying to pretend to prioritize your needs and comfort becuase maybe, just maybe, that will end this godawful endless conversation without the talker getting huffy.
posted by sotonohito at 8:37 AM on March 2, 2021 [21 favorites]


Some people get their sweet sweet chemical jollies from moving their face holes where someone, anyone else can hear them babbling on and just can't stop mainlining it. And from the same interactions, some people get cortisol instead.

I like my roommate a lot, but he seems almost physically incapable of shutting up once he gets going. Worse, he never completes a sentence when he's off on a tear. Just an endless cascade of commas. It feels like he's podcasting at us and it drains me with frightening speed. My social anxiety is partly trauma informed - my body believes an attack is imminent when someone won't let me end an interaction, because that was the case when I was small. My eyes begin darting about it search of an escape and 100% of my language skill goes toward trying to open a hole in the interaction through which I can get away. That part's not his fault really, but it's a hell of a thing to have to cope with when I'm just trying to get from the kitchen to my room.

He's a good dude. I really do like the guy, I'm flattered he's so excited to share so many of his thoughts with me, but I flat out physically can't handle the strain. I'd also be flattered if he entrusted me to hold up some 300 pound heirloom family armoire or something like that, but I still wouldn't be able to do it for as long as wants me to. Anyhow, I'm not sure if there's really anything to be done about it. Thanks for listening.
posted by EatTheWeek at 8:51 AM on March 2, 2021 [3 favorites]


Please stop taking offense at it.

Dear people who say "I'm going to let you go",

Stop trying to manage my reaction to you saying that. It being a regionalism (what region again?) doesn't protect it from falling like a lead balloon on some people. And as I've said repeatedly here, it's only used on me by people who have been talking at me for ages, and not ever by someone whose ear I am bending.

If you are using it on people who are talking without respite, they know you mean they have overstayed their welcome, and that is why it's passive-aggressive.
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 8:52 AM on March 2, 2021 [7 favorites]


I guess one person's "passive-aggressive" is another person's "conscious of the fact that most of our social codes discourage bluntly saying exactly what we mean".
posted by Crane Shot at 8:54 AM on March 2, 2021 [22 favorites]


This whole argument reads to me like one group of people angrily saying "Well! If you didn't actually want to know how I am, then you shouldn't have asked!" and the other group of people going "But... what..."
posted by rifflesby at 8:58 AM on March 2, 2021 [22 favorites]


I think more important than quibbling over regional conversation enders is thinking about whether you are really having a conversation, or instead one person is just talking at the other. I often think by talking and am aware that I can monopolize conversations, so it's on me to get better at that.

Work meetings and conversations are totally different than personal conversations and have different rules. For example if meetings run over all the time, there are ways to address that. But for casual conversations, I don't understand how you get to the closing ("I'll let you go" or whatever) without having discerned that person's attitude towards you and the conversation already. You just talked to them for too long apparently! Did they talk the whole time? Did you? Do you think they got what they hoped from the interaction? Have you ever talked to them before? There were probably a ton of clues - if you aren't great at social cues, they can be learned with practice even if it's in a more clinical/data-driven than intuitive way.

If we are going to talk to people from all around the world instead of living in isolated clumps, we have to just assume good intent and build a catalog of "this person means X when they say Y". Does "Take care" mean "You better watch yourself!" Does "Goodbye" mean "We'll never see each other again?" Does "table this" mean talk about it now or later? What the hell is "I'll revert to you" (it means "I'll respond to you later"??
posted by freecellwizard at 9:21 AM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]


"Oh my goodness, forgive me, I'm so sorry to interrupt your train of thought, but I just happened to glimpse at the clock! I'm truly sorry, I was THIS close to completely forgetting that I had/have to jump off at/by X:XX for Thing. Can we please pick up where we left off next time we connect? So sorry, again, for the abrupt sign-off! Thank you SO much, it was so great to chat with you. As always."

Or something along those lines.
posted by argonauta at 9:21 AM on March 2, 2021 [3 favorites]


Some people, in their personal lived experience, have never really had a socially safe way to exit a conversation. Perhaps they have often been held conversationally hostage by people with power over them. Even if I might find it awkward or confusing, I've learned not to begrudge them employing their learned survival habits even if I consider myself to be a safer person than they're accustomed to dealing with. My getting indignant at how their approach comes across to me isn't helpful to me or to them; recognizing that they want to stop talking when they say the social sign-off phrase they are habituated to is.
posted by NMcCoy at 9:29 AM on March 2, 2021 [9 favorites]


A few confessions from over here:
- in my wilder, less emotionally intelligent days, I used to end phone calls almost as abruptly as they do in the movies. (This is best performed with a flip-phone.)
- I've also had to resort to physically walking away from someone to get a conversation to end. For bonus points, the person in question was the prof I was TAing for at the time.
- I've been told that you can actually see the moment when I'm done engaging with the conversation and am just waiting for the other person to stop talking; however, not everyone seems able / willing to pick up on these cues.

I've had some luck with the phrase "I'm going to have to let you go now" as a mild variation of what's been discussed upstream - it adds a slight hint of having another commitment, without explicitly saying something like "I need to hang up on you now because it's videogame time."
posted by The Outsider at 9:32 AM on March 2, 2021 [3 favorites]


One of my friends has an 80-something great aunt who, when she tires of a conversation, will put on her smarmiest Church Lady smile and say "To be continuuuuuued!" and just walk away.

Being able to get away with that. There aren't a lot of things I look forward to about being old, but that sure is one.
posted by dr. boludo at 9:38 AM on March 2, 2021 [15 favorites]


“Sorry I have another zoom call I have to join”. This is probably the only thing I’ll miss about the pandemic when I finally get physically back to the office.

See, this is actually reversed for me. Conference room time was so tight that your meeting ended on time because someone else needed the room and was waiting impatiently outside. In the wold of zoom, any given meeting has near unlimited time granted to it.
posted by pwnguin at 9:42 AM on March 2, 2021 [4 favorites]


I too have an ex who was a master of the eternal driveway goodbye. He also always wanted to be the very last person to leave any party. We have a friend whose solution to this kind of prolonged social interaction was to say "OK, it's late, all of you get the fuck out of my house," which seemed to work pretty well.

In plague times the virtual nature of my interactions has been useful for getting out of unwanted conversations, because regardless of the medium the other participants aren't aware of everything that is going on in my physical proximity, and pretty much anything is a plausible excuse. Sorry, friend, my cat just brought in a live mouse and I have to catch it. Sorry, colleague, my delivery is here. Sorry, parent, my work meeting is about to start. It's been very soothing.

The mouse thing was probably true at least once.
posted by confluency at 9:55 AM on March 2, 2021 [4 favorites]


I have an elderly family member who we do not see often. We make time with them for brunch or lunch once a month or so to make sure they can catch up with us on whatever they like. Every meeting goes like this:

* We let them drive the conversation and ask a few questions (how are things with XX, etc)
* they chit-chat about random stuff of no import till we order
* chit-chat continues
* meal comes and we dig in
* they chit chat and neglect eating
* we wait forEVER for them to eat as they continue to chat
* we finally say we have to go and then pay for the meal
* on the way to our cars, they wander towards our car instead of theirs
* they drop some bomb like "I've been spending time planning my death arrangements" or "I have a complicated project that I need your help with over the next 6 months".

This thread is making me think about why that could be. We are giving all the receptiveness signals we can throughout the meal. It's crazy-making because by the time I am at my car I am WELL past social overload. I am an introverted person who has slowly learned to move to the middle, but my batteries are still drained by long interactions.
posted by freecellwizard at 10:06 AM on March 2, 2021 [12 favorites]


There's a reason "I'm going to have to let you go" is used as a euphemism for "I have decided to fire you". It disclaims the very obvious power differential in the relationship, and shifts fake agency on the receiver of the news.

I think that's what I hear when people use it to end conversations. "I have single-handedly determined the conversation should end here, and I'm going to put that in your mouth so I don't have to take any responsibility"

I have lingering trauma that is correlated with not having much agency for a couple decades of my life, and receiving bad news from people for whom the delivery of the bad news was the purpose for the conversation, and my reaction to that news irrelevant and/or irritating. This is probably coloring my perception of the phrase, but hey, that's where I am.
posted by tigrrrlily at 10:07 AM on March 2, 2021 [12 favorites]


freecellwizard, perhaps the conversation serves different purposes for you and your relative.

For you, it's an opportunity to listen to concerns they might have.

For them, it's a time for socializing and bonding. Yes, they have concerns that must be discussed, but that can be done once the social interaction they so badly need has been squeezed out of the meeting.

They may actually need the social time more than whatever otherwise quite important life concerns may have arisen.
posted by tigrrrlily at 10:12 AM on March 2, 2021 [7 favorites]


I've found having young kids to be a great excuse to end phone or Zoom conversations.

Also for being late to anything.
posted by gottabefunky at 10:26 AM on March 2, 2021 [4 favorites]


One of my friends has an 80-something great aunt who, when she tires of a conversation, will put on her smarmiest Church Lady smile and say "To be continuuuuuued!" and just walk away.

Being able to get away with that. There aren't a lot of things I look forward to about being old, but that sure is one


I will share this one with my mother, who I can tell is lately struggling with how to get out of conversations as she starts to become aware of her cognition wearing down.

It's funny/sad because our family joke was always that you could not get Grandma off the phone--once the fire alarms were blaring in my dorm room (this was in manhattan, about a week after 9/11) and she still kept saying "Oh just one more thing..." and I had to just leave the phone receiver (ha, land lines) face-up on my desk while I fled the building.

But my mother just seems to hit a point where she falls to pieces and can't quite either end the conversation OR continue it, so she just falls silent and doesn't know what to do.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:27 AM on March 2, 2021 [4 favorites]


* meal comes and we dig in
* they chit chat and neglect eating
* we wait forEVER for them to eat as they continue to chat


I had a friend like this. Brunch was interminable with him. He would just pick at his food while holding court. I could tell how long we were going to be there by how slowly the food disappeared. I eventually got more assertive about needing to wrap things up (and, come to think of it, that's about the same time period that our friendship started to go sideways) but just remembering those endless brunches makes me angry.
posted by treepour at 10:52 AM on March 2, 2021 [7 favorites]


back in the punk rock days, I had a friend who enjoyed inviting me over for a beer or whatever. But at a certain point, he'd simply say more or less out of the blue, "Okay, I'm gonna kick you out now."
posted by philip-random at 10:55 AM on March 2, 2021 [10 favorites]


"I'll let you go now..." is something we'd never say in my country. It sounds like a weird paternalistic power play. "I get to decide when you're allowed to leave." You're not the boss of me! I'm fully capable of deciding when I need to leave and then leaving!

What's wrong with "hey, was great talking but I need to go now"?

It reminds me of this other American thing, "do you want to pass me the salt?"
Not particularly, no. Why, DID YOU MAYBE WANT THE SALT?

It's like in both cases you're not allowed to ask for something directly, so you're trying to make it seem like it was the other person's idea? Which I understand if it's the result of some personal difficulty with being direct. But both of these seem fairly widespread expressions.
posted by Omnomnom at 10:56 AM on March 2, 2021 [6 favorites]


tigrrrlily TBH I'm 100% gobsmacked and baffled by the hatred many people here have for "I'll let you go" as a conversation ender. Maybe it's because I'm from the nominal South (Texas) and it's ubiquitous here.

However, if you hate it could you propose an alternative that a socially awkward person who wants to not make the endless talker huffy can use?

I think the reason it has such high usage is because it's got percieved safety from huffy talkers. If there was an alternative that seemed safe from producing bad feelings from the endless talker I'd be glad to use it, but I literally can't think of one.

My use of I should go has a pretty bad track record, apparently some endless talkers see it as an insult or a slight so despite likeing it I've largely reverted to I'll llet you go simply because here it does have the cultural connotation of a graceful attempt to end a conversation.

But seriously, not sniping or being snide, do you have an alternative you could suggest? I'd love to have more phrases I could try that might not trigger talker huffyness.
posted by sotonohito at 11:00 AM on March 2, 2021 [9 favorites]


Omnomnom Yes, both are widespread in American English.

"Can you pass the salt" and "please pass the salt" are roughly equivilent, phrasing a request as an inquiry as to whether the person can do it is a standard American English thing to add politeness to a request and make it seem less like a barked order.

All languages have softeners and they're often gramatically weird or make little objective sense. That's language for you.
posted by sotonohito at 11:08 AM on March 2, 2021 [12 favorites]


As someone terminally awkward, I appreciate any guiding social data which is delivered to me with kindness. It's possible to say "let me let you go" with cruelty. It's possible to say "okay get the fuck out of my house" with absolute unconditional love.
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:18 AM on March 2, 2021 [14 favorites]


An alternative would be: “well, I’ve got to go”, or similar, where the person wishing to end the conversation owns it.
posted by marimeko at 11:23 AM on March 2, 2021 [6 favorites]


Returning us to those situations where the person who wishes to end the conversation risks suffering social consequences for owning it, and how maybe that isn't necessarily a fair social more to have to navigate, but no one wants anyone mad at them.
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:27 AM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]


As long as no one's saying anything truly fucked up like "bless your heart," you can probably trust most people's intentions though
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:28 AM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]


This kind of reminds me of people who get their backs up about being wished "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings". Other than giving every person you converse with a questionnaire to fill out regarding their sign-off preferences, all we can really do is try to be nice and hope we get it right.
posted by Crane Shot at 11:32 AM on March 2, 2021 [10 favorites]


I don't think there is a magic phrase that will keep endless talkers from taking offense when someone wants/needs to end a conversation, but if you own up to being the one who is ending it instead of putting it on someone else (a la "I'll let you go now") maybe the upside is you'll have less endless talkers in your life. At least if you straight out say, "I need to go now," the endless talkers can't hear, "I'm just being considerate of your time," and totally ignore the signal.Unless they are a complete asshat, which plenty of people are. Unfortunately.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 11:38 AM on March 2, 2021


That’s just it though—! “I’ll let you go” *is* the “bless your heart” of conversation Enders. It is known as passive-aggressive, not a nicety.

I would never be offended by someone needing to end a conversation with me and as mentioned above, it is usually me getting out of conversations, and I’m able to do that without any issues or offending anyone by letting them know I’m pressed for time or whatever the case may be.
posted by marimeko at 11:42 AM on March 2, 2021 [3 favorites]


Everyone who's ever said "I'm going to let you go" to me was the conversational hostage taker, so I've actually never taken offense at it.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:52 AM on March 2, 2021 [3 favorites]


it is usually me getting out of conversations, and I’m able to do that without any issues or offending anyone by letting them know I’m pressed for time or whatever the case may be.

That's great! I once had a coworker get so furious with me I wanted to be done hanging out and go home that he tried to fight me! Like a physical fight with punching and stuff! I had thanked him for having me over, told him I was tired and wanted to go home, and that was unacceptable to him. The entire vibe at work changed! Folks have different experiences of similar situations!

Anyhow, I think I'd better be going.
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:54 AM on March 2, 2021 [3 favorites]


I'm just over here trying to imagine a world where "I gotta let you go" is more rude than "I don't want to talk to you any more" and shaking my head. Being passive-aggressive is bad, so just be overtly aggressive instead? Okay.

If this thread has proved anything, it's that people not only don't know when to end a conversation, they don't know HOW to end a conversation.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 11:56 AM on March 2, 2021 [14 favorites]


This kind of reminds me of people who get their backs up about being wished "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings"

Gee, thanks, that comparison to the fundie whacko "war on Christmas" crowd is not insulting at all.
posted by tigrrrlily at 12:11 PM on March 2, 2021 [6 favorites]


Huh. "I'll let you go now" is a pretty literal recognition of certain social standards when used by the person who either initiated the conversation or believed themselves to dominate it, as it signals a release from the politesse generally understood to be expected in social encounters. Conversations are generally purpose driven, to some sense, where the purpose may just be pleasure, as in an open ended conversation between friends, more purely functional, as when speaking with a someone for business or making small talk while fulfilling some other activity like serving, or tied to one's relations with acquaintances, family and friends, or, more complicatedly, engaged in due to forced proximity for some extended length of time.

In all but the first of those, the recognition that there are norms for conversational patterns that are loose and difficult to tightly define makes conversation a constant risk of being imbalanced for being somewhat expected, sometimes needed, yet also not infrequently unwanted, all to uncertain proportions. If, say, a barista asks you how your day is, while they make your coffee drink, the general expectations is the resulting conversation will continue, somewhat shallowly, just until a moment or two past the time they hand over the beverage, should you get caught up and continue the conversation beyond that, saying I'll let you get back to work, is recognition of stretching the normal bounds.

In a similar way, engaging a fellow passenger on a flight fin conversation comes from being in close contact for an extended period, where expectations over conversing are mixed, some like it, some hate it, but some brief acknowledgement of each other is common. If that is extended into a longer conversation, the difficulty is in knowing when and how to disengage when one is going to remain in close proximity for a some time to come. Saying "I'll let you get back to your book", or some equivalent, recognizes the conversation is based on courtesy that may be over-taxed at some point.

That's the hold that's being released by "letting you go", the sense of obligation to maintain a conversation for the sake of manners. Since one doesn't always know the state of the listener's interest, or may assume whatever interest there was may have lapsed, saying I'll let you go signals that awareness and allows the other person to be freed from further social debt. Of course if the person saying it didn't speak much and didn't initiate the conversation, then it may well be a passive aggressive way of saying I've had enough, but could also come from feeling an inequality of power and a lack of awareness of that from the other party. (How this all might work for written comments isn't as clear, but I'll let you go rather than dwell on it)
posted by gusottertrout at 12:25 PM on March 2, 2021 [9 favorites]


I tend to dominate conversations - I'm clergy and it's a somewhat vocational habit.
But I also host *a lot* of parties (or, at least I did, pre-Covid).
And my little family goes to bed early.

Nobody *ever* seems to know when to leave a party. I jokingly "throw" them out at 8 p.m. with a jovial and authoritative, "Humans! Jesus and I are in agreement, you're all absolutely wonderful! Now it's time for you to leave my house!"

Cue laughter, ha-ha. But it's nice when the host rings a gong and I find that most midwesterners respond positively to it.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 12:26 PM on March 2, 2021 [3 favorites]


This is one of those things where I have never considered the cultural water I am swimming in. My aunts (older White midwesterners) all use "I'm going to let you go." Sometimes they get more specific "I suppose you have studying/cooking/something else to do." What I hear is "It's time to say goodbye, I know not everyone your age wants to talk to their aunts, it's nice that you do." That's what they mean. There's no passive aggressive mystery to unravel. At minimum it means "I'm ending this conversation" and at maximum it means "I'm ending this conversation and I appreciate you spending time with me."

The classic leave-taking I admire but never attempt is what all the baby boomer farmer neighbors use when they stop by to visit: "Well, I s'pose" combined with standing up and lightly slapping their knees.
posted by Emmy Rae at 12:37 PM on March 2, 2021 [18 favorites]


I am curious about this research - to what extent were these conversations too long because people ignored obvious cues (regardless of how rude you think the cue is) along the lines of "I'm going to let you go"?

Were the conversations too long after one person said "I'm curious what the other activities are" and someone else ignored the cue? Or were they too long after one person stopped having much to say or expressing interest, and the other person, rather than realizing that meant it was over, thought it meant it was their turn to contribute more to the conversation, and then the first person tried to match that energy because obviously person #2 is feeling chatty, and 10 minutes later they are still having a conversation they both want out of? This is much more what I imagined from reading it, rather than disagreement over the meaning of a particular turn of phrase.
posted by Emmy Rae at 12:44 PM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]


that comparison to the fundie whacko "war on Christmas" crowd is not insulting at all.
Fantastic, since we're disclaiming anything less direct than "I'm done with this conversation, goodbye" in this thread, I'm heartened by your not being insulted by that person's comparison.
posted by CrystalDave at 12:45 PM on March 2, 2021 [5 favorites]



"Can you pass the salt" and "please pass the salt" are roughly equivilent, phrasing a request as an inquiry as to whether the person can do it is a standard American English thing to add politeness to a request and make it seem less like a barked order.


Oh, totally! I understand and use those expressions (in multiple languages). I was just gobsmacked at hearing "do you want to pass me that salt?" I literally had to figure out what the person meant. Like, was there a reason for me to want to get rid of the salt cellar before it explodes or something?
posted by Omnomnom at 12:53 PM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]


"they drop some bomb like "I've been spending time planning my death arrangements" or "I have a complicated project that I need your help with over the next 6 months".
This thread is making me think about why that could be. "


I mean I think they do want to do a lot of socializing with you and so drag it out, but if all their bomb-drops are things like this, they're hesitant to bring them up and procrastinate it like whoa because it's distressing to talk about or they don't want to harsh the mood. I've been told they train doctors about this, because a lot of patients treat the entire interaction like a polite conversation until the doctor is on the way out the door and then they panic and go, "WAIT BUT I HAVE A GIANT MOLE THAT SEEMS TO HAVE GAINED SENTIENCE!" and the doctor is like, "Why did you not mention that when I asked about your moles?" But it's a super-common human way to be, to engage in a lot of social smoothing and only jump into the unpleasant part when the deadline is imminent.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:06 PM on March 2, 2021 [10 favorites]


I'm just over here trying to imagine a world where "I gotta let you go" is more rude than "I don't want to talk to you any more" 

Are you saying "hey, sorry, gotta go, but I really enjoyed the conversation" is the equivalent of "I don't want to talk to you anymore" in terms of rudeness? Is it really considered rude to...need to go do other things? So rude that it's necessary to launch the polite fiction that you're freeing the other person of the burden of your conversation?

I guess I can see how that might be a cultural norm?

In my country, it is the kind of thing a person might magnanimously say to their subordinate. Someone who has the actual power to make you stay and listen to their chatter, despite your chagrin about having a lot to do. I guess that's the background context that would get my hackles up if people use that expression.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:06 PM on March 2, 2021 [4 favorites]


back in the punk rock days, I had a friend who enjoyed inviting me over for a beer or whatever. But at a certain point, he'd simply say more or less out of the blue, "Okay, I'm gonna kick you out now."

Well, in-person visits have all kinds of extra etiquette layers involved. When he grew weary of visitors, Grandfather Biscuit often turned to my grandmother (when he judged the time was right) to say, "Well, Ruth, perhaps we should go to bed and let these good folks go home."

If the hint was not taken, he'd amble off to the bedroom and return with the big alarm clock off the bedside table, which he would then ostentatiously wind up. I like to imagine him maintaining a steady eye contact with the guests while loudly cranking the dinner-plate-sized Westclox.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:21 PM on March 2, 2021 [11 favorites]


gusottertrout has it right. It's "I might be keeping you beyond your interest due to a social expectation that you will listen to me, so I am disclaiming a further demand on your time." It's actually an expectation built on relative social equality, where my neighbor or cousin feels an obligation to respond to my casual conversational gambits. (I don't often hear it used in professional contexts.) I can quite imagine some countries where people are so brusque they feel no pressure to chit-chat just because the other person is chit-chatting at them, but it works well in America.
posted by praemunire at 1:25 PM on March 2, 2021 [8 favorites]


I definitely have used "I should let you go" and I don't hear it at all in the passive aggressive way some people apparently do. At work I think the more common one is "well, I'd better get (back) to work."

The friend/social equivalent phrase common among my people here is "well, this has been really nice," which is the signal that it's time to wrap it up. But I certainly have done the midwest extended goodbye many times in my life.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:48 PM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]


"I believe I may have shit my pants" has worked for me. That's the nuclear option but the couple of beats of shocked silence is usually sufficient to extricate yourself from an excruciating barrage. Walk funny if you really want to commit to the lie. You're welcome.
posted by elkevelvet at 1:49 PM on March 2, 2021 [8 favorites]


do you want to pass me that salt

Yup, same sort of thing. I realize that no one who does it is likely to stop doing it, but I will continue to find it vaguely irritating, which is just my own little cross to bear I suppose.

I remember when someone I worked with asked a student worker (who was not used to this weird Americanism) if they'd "like to finish" doing a task, and the student worker was like "no thanks." Quite gratifying.
posted by aspersioncast at 2:03 PM on March 2, 2021 [3 favorites]


Those of y'all who enjoy weird or surreal or offputting sendoffs like elkevelvet are my people and can drop by for a chat anytime.

I mean I won't answer because then I'd get caught in a chat, but you're my people.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 2:05 PM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]


"People literally don't know how to shut up" 178 comments (14 new)

Hm, what's going on in here..
posted by firstdaffodils at 2:08 PM on March 2, 2021 [7 favorites]


I'm just over here trying to imagine a world where "I gotta let you go" is more rude than "I don't want to talk to you any more" and shaking my head. Being passive-aggressive is bad, so just be overtly aggressive instead? Okay.


There is nothing rude or aggressive about saying you need to leave a conversation. I have done so thousands of times without saying "I don't want to talk to you anymore."
posted by tiny frying pan at 2:13 PM on March 2, 2021 [7 favorites]


Dear people who hate "I'll let you go". Please stop taking offense at it. It's a desperate attempt by people who want to escape you to frame things in such a way that they won't be punished for wanting to end a conversation.

I have it used the most by people who are dominating the convo, as have others in the thread.
posted by tiny frying pan at 2:22 PM on March 2, 2021


do you want to pass me that salt

I mean, if I had someone in my life who consistently said that, I'd just say "Nah, I'm good, thanks" without looking at them or pausing my own dining, until they learned to directly ask me to pass the salt (which I'd then cheerfully do as if the previous bit had never happened).

But then again that person would likely be a friend or family member who already knew I'm a cranky old smartass, and would just roll their eyes and say "Har har, just gimme the damn salt" (which I'd then cheerfully do as if etc). And we'd both have a good laugh about it years later.
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:30 PM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]


I'd just say "Nah, I'm good, thanks" without looking at them
Ah yes, that old saw.

"Would you pass me the salt?" "Nah, I'm good"
"*Could* you pass me the salt?" "I could."
"*Will* you?" "You left it up to me, so no, since you phrased it like that"
"Could you *please* pass the salt?" "I could *do* it, but I can't be pleased to, so no"
"Pass me the salt?" "You're not my boss, you don't get to direct me like that"
[And continue until worn down]

Turns out when people have their mutually exclusive, unwritten lists of what social cues are permissible there's no winning.
posted by CrystalDave at 2:39 PM on March 2, 2021 [9 favorites]


Letting people know that something they say regularly irks other folks doesn't have to do with winning or losing. Sharing a pet peeve is simply informational. If you don't care, then continue on. These are camps with no condemnation, no jail time, no scarlet letter. So fraught here for no reason.
posted by tiny frying pan at 2:43 PM on March 2, 2021 [8 favorites]


So fraught here for no reason.

Well, this IS Metafilter...
posted by Crane Shot at 2:49 PM on March 2, 2021 [3 favorites]


There is nothing rude or aggressive about saying you need to leave a conversation. I have done so thousands of times without saying "I don't want to talk to you anymore."

Likewise. I notice you didn’t specify that you have a 100% success rate with your “thousands.” I’m not quite there either, and by my count there are still six conversations I am in the middle of.

I cannot recall the author, but I recall the mention by some writer’s daughter who wrote that her father (an avid letter-writer) would often send someone a small gift. “They’d write back to thank him, he’d write back to thank them for thanking him, and then there could be no end to the correspondence but death.”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:14 PM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]


Greg_Ace, perhaps you would like to join my mother's family at the dinner table. So as not to interrupt conversation, the item you wanted passed was muttered under your breath ("Butter." "Potatoes.") and whoever spotted the item passed it over without a word.
posted by Emmy Rae at 3:18 PM on March 2, 2021 [6 favorites]


I grew up in Ohio, and people do the long goodbyes, living room, coat, doorway, driveway. My brother was a talker, and required a forceful exit. Brother, I love you, but I have to go. No new conversation. Bye! I miss him so much.
posted by theora55 at 3:18 PM on March 2, 2021 [3 favorites]


? I have left those on-the-phone convos. They are over. I think that's 100%? Or I'm not understanding what you're saying, I'm sorry.
posted by tiny frying pan at 3:19 PM on March 2, 2021


And yeah I have had at least on-the-phone convos in the hundreds at least. Lifetime all time convos? I KNOW they are in the thousands. Not that I wanted to leave all of them! Sometimes they ended mutually, other times I'm sure someone had to "let me go." Such is life!
posted by tiny frying pan at 3:21 PM on March 2, 2021


“I’m going to let you go” is a cultural norm in many regions of the USA. Think of it as something you need to learn to interact with people from those regions. I suspect that if people were studying Let’s Go! Japan or something they would be much less inclined to find fault. Like “I felt so insulted when I found out I was supposed to take my shoes off!”

On the other hand, “are you gonna pass me that salt” sounds super rude. I’ve heard that before but am not aware of it being a regionalism; more like something old guys do to be funny the same way they joke around with waiters about not tipping them.
posted by freecellwizard at 3:48 PM on March 2, 2021 [5 favorites]


Well "s'il vous plait" is literally "if it pleases you," and "por favor" is "by your favor," so I'm not sure what the problem with "do you want...?" is. ("NO, it doesn't please me to pass you the salt!") Languages are full of means of asking for things indirectly so as to avoid the appearance of giving orders. Many of them don't make literal sense because they're actually meant to point to a meaning beyond the literal. People struggling with this seem to not be too clear on how language functions.
posted by praemunire at 4:01 PM on March 2, 2021 [12 favorites]


No one needs to learn anything to interact. We already do interact with people who do it...and some of us don't like it. The end. All I'm saying is there is no solution here, one clever trick, 10 simple list-icles. I've never been rude to anyone saying it. But it sounds rude to my ear to hear it. Happy I'm not alone.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:02 PM on March 2, 2021 [5 favorites]


Ok, as much fun as this one argument is, I'm actually still kind of amazed to think how bad we collectively are at ending a conversation. So in the majority of conversations both parties wish they had ended earlier. My guess is most people are trying to be polite, and in doing so neither party communicates this desire in a clear way. It's kind of heartwarming. All these people trying not to be rude/mean! Maybe this is why people say they hate small talk? Because a majority of the time it goes on past its useful life but no one wants to shut it down first and in doing so step on the other person's toes?
posted by Emmy Rae at 4:06 PM on March 2, 2021 [11 favorites]


Maybe cause prolonged conversations are new, evolutionary-wise? Ape ancestors were talking to each other not nearly as much as us, I'd reckon.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:11 PM on March 2, 2021


This is why I prefer to text.
posted by marimeko at 4:13 PM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]


Oh but hadn't you heard, some people can't stand texting...
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:53 PM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]


There is nothing rude or aggressive about saying you need to leave a conversation. I have done so thousands of times without saying "I don't want to talk to you anymore."

The real final word on this is that it's a cultural thing. Many Americans, primarily of the midwest or south, see any variation of "I'm gonna let you go" as a polite (albeit often ineffective) way of ending a conversation. There is no connotation of "I am dismissing you from my presence." It is an idiom not meant to be taken any more literally than "break a leg."

I'm genuinely sorry to those who find it offensive, but I guarantee the vast majority of people who would use that phrase carry no ill will and simply are signalling a willingness to end a conversation. No one is dismissing you in a passive-aggressive manner, no one wants you to break your leg.

Anyway, when I was younger my friends and I would just shout "OKAY BYE!" to signal that our business together was concluded. It was very effective.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 5:03 PM on March 2, 2021 [11 favorites]


I still think the scientists are wrong, on a philosophical level. One can totally fathom a cultural practice that conceives of and acknowledges that conversations are processes never really "end", that to conceive of dynamic relations as having a defined start and finish is a very particular value-laden assumption itself. And it leads to absurdities like trying to scientistically tell people (or people being led to believe) how long they should or shouldn't be talking, hedonistic reductionism, and so on.
posted by polymodus at 5:07 PM on March 2, 2021 [4 favorites]


 
posted by sjswitzer at 5:18 PM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]


No one is dismissing you in a passive-aggressive manner, no one wants you to break your leg.

I think people in this thread are missing the fact that–in some circles–it is very much meant to be offensive. It is akin to "bless you heart", in that it is a plausibly deniable conversational devise that sounds nice but is passive aggressive. The fact that some in this thread have either never picked up on that, or live somewhere where that simply isn't the case–doesn't change other people's experiences or make them wrong. Perhaps give the people the benefit of the doubt that they know when someone has thrown shade at them.
posted by marimeko at 5:31 PM on March 2, 2021 [4 favorites]


I'm genuinely sorry to those who find it offensive, but I guarantee the vast majority of people who would use that phrase carry no ill will and simply are signalling a willingness to end a conversation. No one is dismissing you in a passive-aggressive manner, no one wants you to break your leg.

Right, we get it. Still feels the way it feels though. Just so people know it doesn't always come across as intended. As in all human interactions! Hope this one dies out.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:31 PM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]


I’ll let you go watch this on YouTube (Relevant part starts at 1 min)
posted by stop....hammertime at 5:38 PM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]


Dear people who say "I'm going to let you go",

Stop trying to manage my reaction to you saying that. It being a regionalism (what region again?) doesn't protect it from falling like a lead balloon on some people. And as I've said repeatedly here, it's only used on me by people who have been talking at me for ages, and not ever by someone whose ear I am bending.


Well... yeah. If you've called me, you're asking for my time, you've impinged on me, interrupted whatever I was doing, and I'd expect you to do the majority if the talking (except in the rare situation that this is a scheduled call somehow?). I would not sign off with "I'll let you get back to what you were doing" (my preferred variation) because what you were doing was... calling me. You could sign off with it after telling me about whatever you phoned me up to talk about though, because it literally is you letting me go. It's not passive aggressive, it's apologetically acknowledging the undeniable reality that one party interrupted the activities of the other to talk to them about something. Even if nothing was what you/I were doing, that's still something you/I can get back to.
posted by Dysk at 6:13 PM on March 2, 2021 [5 favorites]


(And yeah, it's likely borne of an intrinsic understanding - which I realise isn't universal - that telephone conversations, particularly professional ones, are fundamentally not much fun. Also a lived experience of people not wanting me around much - I'm often apologising for the annoyance that I am aware that I can be.)
posted by Dysk at 6:22 PM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]


Re: "I'm going to let you go now"

Again, I'm a southerner, raised by southerners, who raised by southerners in the kind of WASPy southern guess culture household in which it is generally agreed that politeness is so crucial that real conversation can occur only in subtext.

"I'm going to let you go now" is pretty standard. It is generally seen as polite because the idea is that you are accommodating/empowering the other party in the conversation, whether or not that is how it reads. It is seen as hospitable. And understand that (for me, anyway), I was raised in a world in which you were expected to be unfailingly hospitable without ever troubling anyone in any context that could be perceived as "guest." Like, you were supposed to already know what the person coming to dinner wanted to drink before you fixed it, so the person wouldn't even have to ask, because you assumed the person you were hosting, if they were polite, wouldn't even want to trouble you by asking. And so the actual business of having a conversation with a person or having them into your home is a whole dance that is communicated through a lot of expressions, tone of voice and turns of phrases. Which means there are always two conversations happening at the same time, all the time, and if you can't or don't know to pick up on the cues then you miss like 80% of what's actually being said. End result of this is often a lot of confusion and implicit snobbishness and no one actually being anywhere near as hospitable as they claim to be.

That said:

The way my people use "I'm going to let you go now" is something like "I'd rather die than appear like I'm boring or taking up your time or, God forbid, rude."

Obviously (see this conversation), it backfires.
posted by thivaia at 7:25 PM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]


> Letting people know that something they say regularly irks other folks doesn't have to do with winning or losing. Sharing a pet peeve is simply informational.

Here in Ottawa, I noticed the manager at the coffeeshop will cheerfully respond "not a problem!" when I said "thank you." Then I noticed the other staffers were saying it, and I figured he'd infected them or something, before I realized this is some kind of new cultural norm in places.

I grew up in a generation/context where the usual response is "you're welcome!".

I find "not a problem!" a little irritating.

So I could rant at him: "For fucks sake, I know it's not a problem! I'm thanking you for serving me the coffee I ordered. The proper response is 'you're welcome!' ... Why can't you say 'you're welcome" like a normal human being?!?"

But I'm not going to do that.

Even though it's a pet peeve.
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:52 PM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]


"*Could* you pass me the salt?" "I could."

Stop giving me ideas, CrystalDave!
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:05 PM on March 2, 2021


The proper response is 'you're welcome!' ... Why can't you say 'you're welcome" like a normal human being?!?"

Because prescriptivism isn't welcome?
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:08 PM on March 2, 2021 [3 favorites]


Oh, yeah, "You're welcome" vs. "Not a problem" is a 5+ year old studied linguistic shift
Baby Boomers, however, get really miffed if someone says “no problem” in response to being thanked. From their perspective, saying “no problem” means that whatever they’re thanking someone for was in fact a problem, but the other person did it anyway as a personal favor. To them “You’re welcome” is the standard polite response.

“You’re welcome” means to Millennials what “no problem” means to Baby Boomers, and vice versa. The two phrases have converse meanings to the different age sets.
[...]
‘No problem’, coming from a millennial’s mouth, within the context of helping someone – whether it be holding a door open/picking up something someone may have dropped/etc. – and, naturally, being thanked for it, implies that the kind gesture was indeed, not a problem, that it was just the thing to do, that they were happy to help and that no thanks was really necessary.

While a Baby Boomer’s ‘You’re welcome’ in contrast, says something miles different, it actually highlights the fact that the person went out of their way to help someone; almost brings attention to it in a way, saying 'Yeah, I helped you, I did you this favor I accept your thanks.’ which, malicious intent or not, is strikingly different than the millennial downplay of their act of kindness for the sake of helping someone.
posted by CrystalDave at 8:12 PM on March 2, 2021 [15 favorites]


> Because prescriptivism isn't welcome?

Pretty much. Both in cases where someone's being compassionate and when someone's being cruel.

In this case he's being courteous, (and not accidentally hurtful), so it's extraordinarily inappropriate to respond to that with contempt.
posted by sebastienbailard at 8:21 PM on March 2, 2021 [3 favorites]


Man, the older I get, the more I'm amazed that any two people anywhere on earth can have any kind of interaction without World War III breaking out. I mean, I'm not even a "I'll let you go"-er, but I know at least one person who signs off that way. And since our conversations are enjoyable and amicable, even if it struck me as an odd way to end the call, I'd just let it slide. If it was an awful conversation I couldn't wait to get out of, "I'm gonna let you go" would be music to my ears.

Anyway, I'm sure I've offended at least three people today, and I've barely left the house.
posted by Crane Shot at 8:38 PM on March 2, 2021 [9 favorites]


My younger brother and I both have the tendency to drag out a conversation when we're talking to each other, but sometimes you gotta get off the phone. We used to make fun of our Midwestern US roots by saying, "Well (loud exhale), I spose," to which you were required to reply, "Yeh (loud exhale), we'd better be hittin' the road." The last decade or so, we've agreed on saying, "Tha. End." The only allowed response is, "Tha. End." Pep talks and I love yous precede it, obviously. You're welcome to it if it's useful.

Tha. End.
posted by lauranesson at 8:46 PM on March 2, 2021 [5 favorites]


> We are really bad at navigating a key transition point during one of the most basic social interactions. "

Figure 1
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:20 PM on March 2, 2021


I would doubt the sincerity of someone thanking me and expecting me to be obliged to react to their thanks a certain way. A thank you that creates an obligation seems like the opposite of thanks. Instead of insufficiently repaying a kind deed with a kind word, you're going deeper into debt by demanding something else on top of the kind deed.

Especially if my not-very-well-paying job depends on me being nice to you. Maybe you weren't a problem but you weren't actually particularly welcome.
posted by straight at 3:14 AM on March 3, 2021 [2 favorites]


Anyway, I'm sure I've offended at least three people today, and I've barely left the house.

Offended? No sir, you've made an enemy for life! Haha
posted by drstrangelove at 3:15 AM on March 3, 2021 [1 favorite]


Letting people know that something they say regularly irks other folks doesn't have to do with winning or losing. Sharing a pet peeve is simply informational. If you don't care, then continue on. These are camps with no condemnation, no jail time, no scarlet letter. So fraught here for no reason.

Being a Midwesterner and realizing only somewhat recently how many of our interactions really are passive-aggressive, reading the reactions here to the "I'll let you go" bit was quite educational.
posted by drstrangelove at 3:36 AM on March 3, 2021


But I'm not going to do that.

Even though it's a pet peeve.
posted by sebastienbailard


Okay like how cute I get it you're implying that I and others are rude....for talking about this here? I've never told anyone I know that I hate that, please don't say that, etc. We are discussing turns of phrase. As I said, if it bothers you not that some people feel this is rude, then fine. But now you know it isn't the completely sweet harmless thing that some people say. The world contains multitudes. I find it valuable to learn about each other. The way people are trying to use this like some people are shameful is bizarre and not my intention here.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:01 AM on March 3, 2021 [2 favorites]


And since our conversations are enjoyable and amicable, even if it struck me as an odd way to end the call, I'd just let it slide

Which is what I do. While silently hating it. So there is no problem. No one is winning or losing this argument, it's a ridiculous way to look at this, that one way is right and proper. Everyone is different. If you say it, you know some people don't like it. I don't know why language differences have to be an argument about rudeness here, it's disappointing.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:05 AM on March 3, 2021 [2 favorites]


I fear that you are all over-complicating this. I simply silently signal a footman, who bangs his staff upon the floor and announces that the audience has come to an end. Thus far, none have dared express offence.
posted by Comrade_robot at 5:25 AM on March 3, 2021 [8 favorites]


Wow. I have never had strong opinions on, “I will let you go,” so this to me is like seeing a discussion about cutting sandwiches diagonally turn into a fistfight. So fraught.

I can see why people on TV and on movies just hang up the phone without any sort of farewell.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:35 AM on March 3, 2021 [12 favorites]


Oh, yeah, "You're welcome" vs. "Not a problem" is a 5+ year old studied linguistic shift

Wow, I had noticed that older people are more likely to say "you're welcome" instead of the more common "no problem/no worries" but had no idea they were interpreting "no problem" as...the opposite, for some reason (assuming the article is true). I just thought they were being fussy about the proper way to reply, like those people who insist you say "well" instead of "good" when asked how you are.

Thanks to this thread I've learned 2 of my routine phrases secretly bother people! Can't wait to learn what else is on the list.
posted by randomnity at 6:55 AM on March 3, 2021 [6 favorites]


I have nothing to say.
posted by loquacious at 6:56 AM on March 3, 2021 [3 favorites]


Wow, the unfailingly polite southern / mid-western / wouldn't want to ever appear rude people in this thread who have compared the rest of us to fundamentalists, then accused us of ranting... I feel like I must have been so rude
posted by tigrrrlily at 7:38 AM on March 3, 2021 [1 favorite]


But, wait, maybe I do.

One of the things I love about learning and accepting that I'm really an introvert and I recharge my batteries with quiet and alone time is I'm no longer uncomfortable with silence - awkward or not - or ending conversations outright by expressing it, and I also really don't care how someone signals they've had enough whether it's obliquely, passive-aggressively or overt.

And as someone who can be extraordinarily talkative and even comfortable with public speaking, I've learned the many values in shutting up and actively listening. It's a skill I've had to learn, exercise and practice at.

This is a good all on it's own, but if you take that skill and weaponize it on the chaotic neutral or chaotic evil axis people will talk themselves into really awkward corners and overshare in ways that can be tactically socially useful or otherwise revealing, because if someone is secretly or not so secretly a toxic human being they will openly tell you about it and I can take notes and make decisions about how close I want them to my own lives.

A super easy example of this is many ex-coworkers describing their motivations for doing things. One really bad ex-coworker in particular that openly admitted - like this was a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do - that they liked to blast bombastic and heavy classical music because it actively drove customers away and I my verbal response was "Oh?" with the internal response of "This asshole hates his job and is stealing my lunch and tip money and he needs to get the fuck out of here."

Most people take the hint or clearly stated request that I would like to end the conversation and go back to not talking or focusing on some work or even a distraction or whatever on my laptop or phone or even doing nothing at all.

For the rest that can't I've learned I can weaponize my ability to be very talkative and awkward and straight up make someone uncomfortable that they think they're the one that wants to end the conversation. Topics like death, stranger aspects of human sexuality or emotional traumas are easy ammunition for this.

"Oh? You want to keep talking? Ok, let's talk about figging and weird buttstuff. Hey, where are you going?"
posted by loquacious at 7:40 AM on March 3, 2021 [3 favorites]


I posted earlier the exit phrases, "Good talk" and "Smell you later", but I just realized that the real exit I use most when I realize we've run out the topic-at-hand is this, "Thank you for listening." and then making my exit.
posted by mikelieman at 7:46 AM on March 3, 2021 [2 favorites]


A lot of traditional folk songs begin with an address to the audience, followed by the second line, “Come listen to my song.” The singer then recounts a tale of tragedy for a few verses, then in the wrap-up we get a repeated invocation and the warning the you’re about to hear the moral of the story — something like, “Come all you pretty fair young maids, this warning take by me...”

I might start putting, “This warning take by me,” as the third-last slide in PowerPoint presentations. I am undecided about its use in conversation. Maybe I can arrange things so that I emerge from behind a pillar and utter dark auguries before disappearing.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:05 AM on March 3, 2021 [5 favorites]


I was somewhat irritable in my last comment, so I want to clarify why. Obviously some people feel differently, but seeing a lot of negative descriptions like "passive aggressive" and "presumptuous" and "offensive" applied to what is, essentially a cultural turn of phrase for goodbye really began to wind me up in a similar way to when food threads get derailed by "I think cultural food X is gross." You're free to think that! But it makes the thread rather negative.

It's not wrong to dislike it, I dislike a lot of things, but when you start implying bad intentions by calling it things like passive aggressive that is different to "That phrase rubs me the wrong way, I prefer Y".
posted by stillnocturnal at 8:32 AM on March 3, 2021 [7 favorites]


That comment above probably being an excellent example of my not knowing when to shut up. Sigh. I need to leave the house.
posted by stillnocturnal at 8:34 AM on March 3, 2021 [1 favorite]


stillnocturnal, your comment is excellent and I agree 100%. I guess the problem is that current progressive orthodoxy holds that "intent doesn't matter" – which I don't think is true. And that makes me a bad progressive.
posted by Crane Shot at 8:38 AM on March 3, 2021 [2 favorites]


If someone's tallying up the stats on this thread, here's my data point: the only times that *I* have ever used the phrase "I'll let you go," is to end interactions with people (well, really just one very loquacious friend who restarts chatting as she puts on her shoes, again with coat, again with hand on doorknob, etc.) holding me hostage despite my directly stated desire to be done. And I definitely mean it in a passive-aggressive way.
posted by MiraK at 9:17 AM on March 3, 2021


Ok but here's my problem.

ILYG as a polite way of saying STFU I want do end this converaation is ubiquitous in the Midwest/South to the point i honestly, literally, never even considered it was even possible to see it as an insult or passive aggressive power play or whatever very bad thing the people who hate it see it as.

I think I have such a bad reaction to being told that ILYG is a horrible, awful, vile thing to say because it seems to leave me trapped.

I thought I'd been taught the magic words that could have at least the chance of letting me escape your endless talking with no real risk of stepping over social bounds and making people upset.

Now I learn that my magic words are, in fact, flat out guaranteed to upset some people.

Thus my feeling of being trapped. Either I take the painful, difficult, route of risking pissing people off with all the messy awful uncomfortable and potentially job/relationship ending problems that come from pissing people off, or I just let myself be talked to death for literally hours on end.

Is there a real set of magic words or am I just stuck?

If anyone says "I have to go now" I will tell you right now that most of the people in my region will absolutely take that as an offenseive, rude, power play. It is 100% not safe for me to use.

So, if you hate ILYG so much, please, please, tell me what universally non-offensive phrase I can use.
posted by sotonohito at 9:34 AM on March 3, 2021 [8 favorites]


If anyone says "I have to go now" I will tell you right now that most of the people in my region will absolutely take that as an offenseive, rude, power play. It is 100% not safe for me to use.

Is this genuinely the case? Because I am having a hard time imagining anyone taking offense at, for instance, "Oh, my, would you look at the time, I must hurry if I want to get dinner starting. Lovely to see you!" or "It's been so much fun chatting with you! See you on Friday at rehearsal!" or "I've missed hanging out like this with you! Wish we could keep going, but it's way past my bedtime. Good night!"

I suppose a standard formula would include the following components: (a) a warm tone of voice + smile, (b) expressing how much you enjoy their company (and optional: give them a reason you have to go and/or express desire/plans to see them again), and finally (c) direct and unambiguous adieu, such as "Bye!" or "See ya!"

I know that in areas of life where I am especially insecure or have a lot of anxiety, I tend to feel frozen due to my own anxiety-fueled false belief that there is no "correct" way to directly do or say the thing I want to do or say, and that indirect means are the only option. I suspect that's what's happening with folks who feel there is no polite way to be direct.
posted by MiraK at 11:00 AM on March 3, 2021 [2 favorites]


I'm probably terribly uncouth but I will just straight up tell someone the truth whether it is "Hi, I don't have the attention span for this conversation right now." or "Ok, I'll talk to you later. I have plans to sit on the beach alone and do nothing."

Thankfully most of my local people are also introverts and total weirdos who have similar plans.
posted by loquacious at 11:28 AM on March 3, 2021



Is there a real set of magic words or am I just stuck?


I think you're stuck, just as I am stuck thinking my cheerful "okay, 'fraid I've gotta go now" is probably cheesing off some Americans. But that's okay, isn't it? If anything, I think we can both come out of this thread feeling relieved that there's no way for us not to annoy people, so we might as well say whatever we feel most comfortable with and seems most regionally appropriate.

Besides, normal people will usually shrug off occasional annoying stuff from you and take it in the spirit it's intended. Which is lucky because we're all occasionally annoying.
posted by Omnomnom at 11:54 AM on March 3, 2021 [4 favorites]


In non-friend and non-family interactions, I've found that variations on "thanks for taking the time to talk with me" work fairly well and rarely appear to upset people. The expression of gratitude signals the end of the conversational arc without people feeling like they're being pushed out the door (I hope). And where necessary it can escalate fairly gracefully to "I really appreciate you taking the time for this conversation but I'm afraid I'm going to have to go now."

... I do think it's important to remember that phone conversations in particular are basically always an intrusion, so expressions of gratitude and/or apology are perfectly appropriate.
posted by Not A Thing at 12:45 PM on March 3, 2021 [5 favorites]


My mom will sometimes "let me" do tasks. Like, "I'll let you plant the celery starts." "I'll let you back the car out." "I'll let you move that big heavy pot out of the way." It seems to mean, "Out of the two of us here, you are probably the one who should do the thing because [you're nearer to it/better equipped to do it]/[I don't feel strong enough/skilled enough to do it]/[you're doing nothing but flapping around the kitchen ranting about nonsense whereas I'm up to my elbows in dough]." I've only noticed this recently, but she's probably done it all her life, which would make it a thing of the midwest, like "close the light."

As for "I'll let you go," it means different things in different conversational situations. It's not always a polite fib. It's not always an honest apology. It's not always kindly meant. It's not always meant as a jab. It probably has many many shades of meaning.

Here is the shade of meaning that can sometimes make me (Blabber in the below exchange) feel bad:
Blabber: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blibbity blah blah?
Hearer: blip.
Blabber: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blibbity blah blah blah blah!
Hearer: blip. bloop.
Blabber: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blibbity blah blah blah blaggitty blagomorph bleeblopablooblop Blagovich blorg and blap!
Hearer: Mmm. Okay, then! I'll let you go.

Hearer needs to let Blabber go? Has Hearer been holding Blabber against her will? No! Vice the hell versa, as is suddenly clear to Blabber, who is now covered in shame. The above is a thing that a particular cousin of mine does. About 75% of the conversation is fun, both parties talking animatedly, but then at some point she's ready to go before I am, and I never sense it in time and the above happens.

When Blabber says it out of horror over sudden realization that they've been monopolizing the conversation, "I'll let you go" has a completely different meaning:
Blabber: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blibbity blah blah?
Hearer: blip.
Blabber: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blibbity blah blah blah blah!
Hearer: blip. bloop.
Blabber: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blibbity blah blah blah blaggitty blagomorph bleeblopablooblop Blagovich blorg and blap!
Hearer: Bloo...
Blabber: Oh, geez, man, I'm sorry, it's like a million o'clock. I'll let you go. Sorry, I just love talking to you!
posted by Don Pepino at 12:50 PM on March 3, 2021 [7 favorites]


I've heard that a West Coaster can say "have a nice day" in a way that means "go eff yourself," and an East Coaster can say "go eff yourself" in a way that means "have a nice day."

Theoretically, based on my understanding of "I'll let you go" to mean "I have aged ten years and died a thousand deaths listening to your monologue about everything wrong with America today," I should prefer the West Coast. Strangely, I don't.

What I keep coming back to is this: the liberal value of embracing cultural differences is an irresistible force, and the refusal to assume good faith when we're offended is an immovable object. No one's asking you to tolerate intolerance itself, here, just annoyance.

That said, it's enough for me to know that "I'll let you go now" rankles people, and lord knows if it were truly effective the western-states side of my family wouldn't still be monologuing at me after all these years. I will continue my search for an effective exit line. I will not adopt a blunt one and brag about "just being honest!" If people want honesty, they can demonstrate same by listening at least as much as they talk.
posted by armeowda at 5:57 PM on March 3, 2021 [5 favorites]


The first time I [west australian] heard a “well, I’m gonna let you go now” was from my Mid-West USA partner over Skype. It was weird I’ll admit, because yeah he had called me and he was talking the most, but I quickly figured out it’s idiom for wrapping up convo times for Americans. We tend to say “well gotta love ya and leave ya” and I think that’s actually quite a nice way to leave conversations.
posted by honey-barbara at 8:20 PM on March 3, 2021 [5 favorites]


I've heard that a West Coaster can say "have a nice day" in a way that means "go eff yourself," and an East Coaster can say "go eff yourself" in a way that means "have a nice day."

Such is the soul of each

"I love ending the conversation with a positive note, always so good to leave at it's best-" and then you leave.
posted by firstdaffodils at 9:52 PM on March 3, 2021 [1 favorite]


The worst conversation ender for me is when someone says some obscure, inside joke that I don’t understand and then laughs hysterically as I’m walking away. Like, what’s up with that?
posted by waving at 12:42 AM on March 4, 2021


Yeah and when people walk away saying "See you later, alligator" and I can't think fast enough to come up with an animal that rhymes with a preposition of time before they're gone... :(
posted by MiraK at 6:11 AM on March 4, 2021 [1 favorite]


“In a while, crocodile” works
posted by honey-barbara at 6:52 AM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]


Yes! I've made a point of amassing an arsenal:

"Very soon, raccoon"

"Catch you tomorrow, english sparrow"

"In a week, pipsqueak"
posted by MiraK at 7:43 AM on March 4, 2021 [5 favorites]


After a smidgen, passenger pigeon.
posted by Don Pepino at 8:42 AM on March 4, 2021 [5 favorites]


In an interval, magical narwhal.
posted by MrVisible at 9:11 AM on March 4, 2021 [3 favorites]


Keep it real, baby eel
posted by marimeko at 10:26 AM on March 4, 2021 [5 favorites]


Toodle-oo, ugly gnu
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:55 AM on March 4, 2021 [3 favorites]


That's enuffalo, buffalo
posted by LindsayIrene at 12:08 PM on March 4, 2021 [6 favorites]


Until then, wren.

Hush, thrush.

Get yourself gone, swan.
posted by mark k at 12:17 PM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]


Oh my god, why is this thread still happening and people are still fighting over "I'll let you go." Geez. Fucking nightmare, why even bother talking if people are going to assume the worst
posted by yueliang at 12:36 PM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]


well I think MiraK, Don Pepino, MrVisible, marimeko, Greg_Ace, LindsayIrene, and mark k are trying to say bye to us
posted by grandiloquiet at 12:41 PM on March 4, 2021 [6 favorites]


Yueliang, I think the argument was pretty much over. But perhaps you've managed to revive it, yay! Now we can all stand at the door, coats in hands, and have at it for another round.
posted by Omnomnom at 2:41 PM on March 4, 2021 [6 favorites]


nothing more, snore snore snore
posted by Going To Maine at 3:46 PM on March 4, 2021 [3 favorites]


Time for another goodbye, I guess!
posted by yueliang at 4:10 PM on March 4, 2021


In a bit, Travis Tritt.
posted by Bob Regular at 6:16 PM on March 4, 2021 [1 favorite]


For today's trying times...

"Stay cute! Stay safe!"
posted by WalkerWestridge at 8:55 AM on March 5, 2021 [1 favorite]


What's new, cashew?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:15 AM on March 5, 2021 [1 favorite]


What's new, cashew?
Conversation finished, sautéed spinach.
posted by Don Pepino at 11:35 AM on March 5, 2021 [4 favorites]


Glad you rang up, time to hang up
posted by Crane Shot at 12:22 PM on March 5, 2021 [3 favorites]


Oh—just one more thing...
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:00 PM on March 5, 2021




Metafilter: And it started so fun. I'll let you go.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 6:40 AM on March 7, 2021 [1 favorite]


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