A Trip Down Crooked Old Peanut Brittle Lane
March 19, 2021 11:04 AM Subscribe
"Candyland is a masterpiece of game design that designers should be studying and dissecting as one of the best examples EVER of game design craft for specific audiences."
A rant through the history of one of the most ubiquitous and overlooked board games, but John Brieger.
Long live Candyland, fuck Chutes and Ladders forever.
(What an interesting twitter thread, thank you for posting this! I had no idea about Candyland's origins.)
posted by punchtothehead at 11:18 AM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
(What an interesting twitter thread, thank you for posting this! I had no idea about Candyland's origins.)
posted by punchtothehead at 11:18 AM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
This is a really informative mini-history! But I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing: Candyland seems like a brilliant innovation as a game for kids with Polio, and is a clever little interactive story. But, divorced from that context, it still seems like a not-very-good game that is one route for introducing kids to an interactive story. It’s not miserable, but it feels like a specific tool.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:20 AM on March 19, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 11:20 AM on March 19, 2021 [5 favorites]
On the other hand, arguably the gateway drug for Candy Crush.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:25 AM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:25 AM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yes, I think the story about the history of the game (within the article) is more interesting than the game itself. The art on the game board itself is also interesting to me. My version (1970s) had ridiculously delicious looking artwork and felt like a magical world. My current kids' version looks like a travesty.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:26 AM on March 19, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:26 AM on March 19, 2021 [12 favorites]
I used to cheat at Candyland by rearranging the cards when my parents weren't looking.
posted by sfred at 11:31 AM on March 19, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by sfred at 11:31 AM on March 19, 2021 [9 favorites]
One view holds that Candyland is not a game. It is probably better described as an exercise in counting, color recognition, and rule following. It may be a very well designed exercise for a very deserving audience, but it's still an exercise. It's no more a game than an elementary school math worksheet.
Another view holds that Candyland is an implicit game of chance: "I'll bet that the shuffle of the cards results in me getting to the end first." By the same logic one could say that "I'll bet that the hundredth flip of this coin comes up heads" is a game, albeit a very long and uninteresting one. I suppose that view is at least internally consistent, but even from that perspective the value of Candyland is in the exercise, not the "game".
posted by jedicus at 11:39 AM on March 19, 2021 [14 favorites]
Another view holds that Candyland is an implicit game of chance: "I'll bet that the shuffle of the cards results in me getting to the end first." By the same logic one could say that "I'll bet that the hundredth flip of this coin comes up heads" is a game, albeit a very long and uninteresting one. I suppose that view is at least internally consistent, but even from that perspective the value of Candyland is in the exercise, not the "game".
posted by jedicus at 11:39 AM on March 19, 2021 [14 favorites]
I appreciate Candyland's Lord Licorice for providing my child with an early introduction to queer-coded villains.
posted by an octopus IRL at 11:40 AM on March 19, 2021 [32 favorites]
posted by an octopus IRL at 11:40 AM on March 19, 2021 [32 favorites]
it still seems like a not-very-good game
So arguably Candyland is not a game - this is less a capital-C Criticism than a semantic argument - games, by some definitions, require choices. If you're not making any choices, you're not playing a game. English has a certain ambiguity here lumping together things like "card games" (where making choices is the whole point) with "schoolyard games" where the choice is whether to pretend to be a cop or a robber.
It's a good essay in that it explains clearly why Candyland succeeds at its design goals while not really being a game at all in the sense of players making choices. I think any game designer can take the basic ideas to heart - that at the core of every game is the essence of it being a passtime and that the goal-behind-the-goal is that the players should enjoy themselves first and foremost. And if reducing the choices to zero increases enjoyment, then your goal has been achieved.
Anyway, the other counters aside from this article to criticisms of Candyland is that it's a game for children to learn the basic structure of games - moving pieces, turn-taking, dealing with "loss" - rather than a game per se. And that if adults don't like a game for children, shocker! Perhaps they should play a game for adults.
posted by GuyZero at 11:45 AM on March 19, 2021 [16 favorites]
So arguably Candyland is not a game - this is less a capital-C Criticism than a semantic argument - games, by some definitions, require choices. If you're not making any choices, you're not playing a game. English has a certain ambiguity here lumping together things like "card games" (where making choices is the whole point) with "schoolyard games" where the choice is whether to pretend to be a cop or a robber.
It's a good essay in that it explains clearly why Candyland succeeds at its design goals while not really being a game at all in the sense of players making choices. I think any game designer can take the basic ideas to heart - that at the core of every game is the essence of it being a passtime and that the goal-behind-the-goal is that the players should enjoy themselves first and foremost. And if reducing the choices to zero increases enjoyment, then your goal has been achieved.
Anyway, the other counters aside from this article to criticisms of Candyland is that it's a game for children to learn the basic structure of games - moving pieces, turn-taking, dealing with "loss" - rather than a game per se. And that if adults don't like a game for children, shocker! Perhaps they should play a game for adults.
posted by GuyZero at 11:45 AM on March 19, 2021 [16 favorites]
I used to cheat at Candyland by rearranging the cards when my parents weren't looking.
Learning the Kobayashi Maru solution early I see.
posted by GuyZero at 11:46 AM on March 19, 2021 [27 favorites]
Learning the Kobayashi Maru solution early I see.
posted by GuyZero at 11:46 AM on March 19, 2021 [27 favorites]
It's really one of the few games that's fair to kids and parents. The parents don't have to fein being dumb to let their kids win, and I think kids notice that and respect its honesty. Setbacks or advancements are purely chance and that's a valuable lesson. I mean, it's arguably as good a model of reality as the closed-system market dynamics of a lot of the popular board games nowadays.
posted by St. Oops at 11:46 AM on March 19, 2021 [37 favorites]
posted by St. Oops at 11:46 AM on March 19, 2021 [37 favorites]
Oh the other meta-lesson that we can learn from Candyland is the importance of writing solid lore for your game setting. Even if your mechanics suck (or don't exist!), great lore will get people into it. And on the flip side, the best mechanics in the world won't get people to buy a dull looking game.
posted by GuyZero at 11:48 AM on March 19, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 11:48 AM on March 19, 2021 [8 favorites]
The version I own has a spinner on it rather than cards. The spinner wheel is great because - A) no cards to shuffle and lose; and B) it brings in an element of control over your own situation.
So that makes it more of a 'game' to those who say it isn't.
posted by hydra77 at 11:56 AM on March 19, 2021
So that makes it more of a 'game' to those who say it isn't.
posted by hydra77 at 11:56 AM on March 19, 2021
It's really one of the few games that's fair to kids and parents. The parents don't have to fein being dumb to let their kids win, and I think kids notice that and respect its honesty.
As a first grader, aged 6, I had to be pulled out of class for speech therapy. I distinctly remember the teacher using Candyland as an icebreaker on our first meeting. It'll always a hold a special place in my heart for that reason alone.
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:05 PM on March 19, 2021 [17 favorites]
As a first grader, aged 6, I had to be pulled out of class for speech therapy. I distinctly remember the teacher using Candyland as an icebreaker on our first meeting. It'll always a hold a special place in my heart for that reason alone.
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:05 PM on March 19, 2021 [17 favorites]
This thread makes Candyland make a lot more sense to me.
I had viewed primarily as a tool to teach good sportsmanship, since as has been noted, the outcome is entirely random and predetermined once the game starts, so everyone gets a chance to be winners and losers and deal accordingly. Playing with my kid the most interesting part was discussing and dissecting the lore, characters and how disgusting it would actually be to traverse a landscape made of sweets.
posted by subocoyne at 12:09 PM on March 19, 2021 [4 favorites]
I had viewed primarily as a tool to teach good sportsmanship, since as has been noted, the outcome is entirely random and predetermined once the game starts, so everyone gets a chance to be winners and losers and deal accordingly. Playing with my kid the most interesting part was discussing and dissecting the lore, characters and how disgusting it would actually be to traverse a landscape made of sweets.
posted by subocoyne at 12:09 PM on March 19, 2021 [4 favorites]
The version I own has a spinner on it rather than cards.
So it becomes a game of darts rather than a game of cards. Which, sure, why not.
Again to argue semantics, darts is more akin to a sport than a game*, so Candyland-with-a-spinner could be classified the same way.
* ask several nerds all to draw a venn diagram of the overlap of sports and games and then have them all reveal them at once and stand back as the recriminations and fighting begins.
posted by GuyZero at 12:11 PM on March 19, 2021 [6 favorites]
So it becomes a game of darts rather than a game of cards. Which, sure, why not.
Again to argue semantics, darts is more akin to a sport than a game*, so Candyland-with-a-spinner could be classified the same way.
* ask several nerds all to draw a venn diagram of the overlap of sports and games and then have them all reveal them at once and stand back as the recriminations and fighting begins.
posted by GuyZero at 12:11 PM on March 19, 2021 [6 favorites]
Candyland is one of the few games my four year old nephew can actually understand and play without a lot of 'No, that's not how you do that'. It may be simple and entirely luck-based, but it has a demographic for which that is ideal. Even my eight-year-old niece finds it too babyish, but that's fine, it's not for her.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:12 PM on March 19, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 12:12 PM on March 19, 2021 [6 favorites]
A spinner is supposed to be random, like a die (though kids love to try and cheat with it), but harder to lose track of (especially if you can incorporate it into the board itself). Maybe it FEELS more like you have agency. And cards are hard for little kids to shuffle. Cards are good for ensuring equal distribution, but that doesn't really matter with Candyland.
It does work well as an exercise in learning how board games work without requiring any actual thought or strategy, and for some kids that makes it boring pretty quickly. The style and setting are really great, though. Who wouldn't love to be transported to a Candy Land?
(I don't think it's correct to say there's no chance involved in Candyland, though. The chance comes through the shuffle and the gradual reveal. Dice or a spinner make no fundamental difference to the working of the game, Albert.)
posted by rikschell at 12:14 PM on March 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
It does work well as an exercise in learning how board games work without requiring any actual thought or strategy, and for some kids that makes it boring pretty quickly. The style and setting are really great, though. Who wouldn't love to be transported to a Candy Land?
(I don't think it's correct to say there's no chance involved in Candyland, though. The chance comes through the shuffle and the gradual reveal. Dice or a spinner make no fundamental difference to the working of the game, Albert.)
posted by rikschell at 12:14 PM on March 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
jedicus and GuyZero do you consider the card game War to be a game?
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:15 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:15 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
To me, all sports are games. But not all games are sports.
posted by Splunge at 12:16 PM on March 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Splunge at 12:16 PM on March 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
I got so bored of Candyland when my kids were that age that I invented the "go fish" variant. Each player gets 5 cards and asks one of the other players "Do you have any yellow?" Then uses those and any yellow in their own hand to move that many yellow squares. It goes much more quickly.
They're right about the lore, though. My kids kept designating a "Queen Frostine" among their LEGO figures and other toys for years after they stopped playing Candyland.
posted by straight at 12:19 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
They're right about the lore, though. My kids kept designating a "Queen Frostine" among their LEGO figures and other toys for years after they stopped playing Candyland.
posted by straight at 12:19 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
My son does not consider War to be a game (and I don't disagree). You have to add slaps, ala Egyptian Rat Screw to make it a game. Without that it's more of an exercise, like trying to run the deck (flip a card and say Ace, then flip the next card and say Two, continue flipping and calling cards up to King, then repeat three more times; shuffle and start over if the card you flip is the card you say).
posted by rikschell at 12:23 PM on March 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by rikschell at 12:23 PM on March 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
jedicus and GuyZero do you consider the card game War to be a game?
Just to be clear, I'm not particularly married to any specific definition of "game", but such definitions do exist.
Anyway, no, War doesn't have any choices, so it's not a game in that sense. Like Candyland, it has the form of card game and can teach children how card games work structurally while relieving them of having to actually decide anything. It's good practice for comparing values and counting. If you feel like you have pretty solid counting skills, you're probably ready to find a new game.
posted by GuyZero at 12:26 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
Just to be clear, I'm not particularly married to any specific definition of "game", but such definitions do exist.
Anyway, no, War doesn't have any choices, so it's not a game in that sense. Like Candyland, it has the form of card game and can teach children how card games work structurally while relieving them of having to actually decide anything. It's good practice for comparing values and counting. If you feel like you have pretty solid counting skills, you're probably ready to find a new game.
posted by GuyZero at 12:26 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
The weird thing is, I don't remember anything about Candyland having a "backstory" when we played it as kids. It struck me as more of a "gateway to board games" kind of thing - it was more about something to do to pass the time, it was a luck-of-the-draw kind of thing, and maybe you'd win and maybe you wouldn't but if you lost you wouldn't die or anything and you can always try again. It sort of was teaching social skills.
As for War, half the fun of playing that with my brother and grandfather was that we would all inexplicably speak at each other in gibberish the whole time.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:28 PM on March 19, 2021 [8 favorites]
As for War, half the fun of playing that with my brother and grandfather was that we would all inexplicably speak at each other in gibberish the whole time.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:28 PM on March 19, 2021 [8 favorites]
Yeah, War is an interesting study as well. My friends 12 year old spends countless hours playing it. I think it fills a similar level of not talking down to the less skilled player and not making one impose handicaps on the skilled player to make it interesting.
posted by Jacen at 12:32 PM on March 19, 2021
posted by Jacen at 12:32 PM on March 19, 2021
My version (1970s) had ridiculously delicious looking artwork and felt like a magical world. My current kids' version looks like a travesty.
Strongly agree, The_Vegetables! A quick Google image search tells me that I had the 1978 version as a kid and I was obsessed with those illustrations. The later redesigns aren't nearly as delightful.
posted by merriment at 12:35 PM on March 19, 2021 [5 favorites]
Strongly agree, The_Vegetables! A quick Google image search tells me that I had the 1978 version as a kid and I was obsessed with those illustrations. The later redesigns aren't nearly as delightful.
posted by merriment at 12:35 PM on March 19, 2021 [5 favorites]
As a kid with a much younger sibling and no neighborhood friends, I would play War with my stuffed animals. Nothing like losing to Raggedy Anne for the ol self esteem.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:35 PM on March 19, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:35 PM on March 19, 2021 [12 favorites]
I remember playing so much War with my brother and cousins when I was a kid. They were 5+ years older than me so they were being pretty kind to play it.
Egyptian Rat Screw
I played this a lot during junior high school. I'm a bit surprised that it's called the same thing in other places though, it always felt like a made up game and name to me. I've tried playing it with my kids but even though they ought to have faster reflexes than me those years of practice means I have to go easy on them to keep things close.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:36 PM on March 19, 2021
Egyptian Rat Screw
I played this a lot during junior high school. I'm a bit surprised that it's called the same thing in other places though, it always felt like a made up game and name to me. I've tried playing it with my kids but even though they ought to have faster reflexes than me those years of practice means I have to go easy on them to keep things close.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:36 PM on March 19, 2021
And if reducing the choices to zero increases enjoyment, then your goal has been achieved.
There was a Ferry Halim Orisinal game that you could act to play - fan, basket, falling flowers - but was even more comforting if you didn’t act but merely watched. It was awfully suggestive of coming to terms with death, so.
Not one of the ones that’s been ported to iOS, evidently.
posted by clew at 12:38 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
There was a Ferry Halim Orisinal game that you could act to play - fan, basket, falling flowers - but was even more comforting if you didn’t act but merely watched. It was awfully suggestive of coming to terms with death, so.
Not one of the ones that’s been ported to iOS, evidently.
posted by clew at 12:38 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
I once read an essay by a tabletop gamer who introduced his three-year-old daughter to the concept of making strategic choices by playing Candyland with a variant rule set. Instead of drawing one card and moving to the dictated color, each player drew two cards and had to choose one to obey and one to discard. I like that.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:40 PM on March 19, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:40 PM on March 19, 2021 [20 favorites]
Candyland.
We have the card version.
AKA the "fuck you go back to start and lose" edition
AKA the "you don't even have to be there to take your turn since you have no choice about anything" edition.
AKA the "I'm a game designer who can't look past these issues and leech all of the fun out of a very small child trying to play" edition.
We don't play candyland in this house anymore.
TLDR - Candy = good. Candyland = BAD
posted by Lord_Pall at 12:46 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
We have the card version.
AKA the "fuck you go back to start and lose" edition
AKA the "you don't even have to be there to take your turn since you have no choice about anything" edition.
AKA the "I'm a game designer who can't look past these issues and leech all of the fun out of a very small child trying to play" edition.
We don't play candyland in this house anymore.
TLDR - Candy = good. Candyland = BAD
posted by Lord_Pall at 12:46 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
I learned Egyptian Rat Screw in the late 80's in high school youth group in Ohio. My son learned the same game (or close variant) at camp in North Carolina in middle school 5-ish years ago under the name "E.R.S." but no one knew what the letters stood for! Oral traditions are so cool and crazy.
posted by rikschell at 12:51 PM on March 19, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 12:51 PM on March 19, 2021 [6 favorites]
A very first game that the adults in my family enjoyed a lot more than Candyland was Go Away Monster. It's typically cooperative rather than competitive; You are all working to furnish a bedroom by drawing pieces out of a sack one at a time, but some of the pieces are not the furniture, they are monsters who are shaped like the furniture. And whoever draws the monster then has to shout, GO AWAY MONSTER! It teaches a lot of the same turn-taking, pattern matching, and element of chance that Candyland teaches. But it's cooperative rather than competitive, which I vastly prefer in games for children because my children are very competitive, It's much faster than Candyland, and watching toddlers draw monsters and shout GO AWAY MONSTER! is the most adorable thing in the universe.
My younger two kids started playing Go Away Monster at about 18 months, because even very small toddlers can understand the basics of the game, especially if they have an older sibling or cousin or playmate who's modeling it for them. We had gotten it for my oldest when he was three, and my middle child, who was 18 months at the time, watched with fascination for about three rounds and then plopped down in my lap and demanded to play too. To our surprise, he was totally able to do it with just a very little coaching about whose turn it was. Similarly, with my youngest, who had a pretty significant speech delay, wanting to play that game with her older brothers made GO AWAY MONSTER! her first three word phrase.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:05 PM on March 19, 2021 [24 favorites]
My younger two kids started playing Go Away Monster at about 18 months, because even very small toddlers can understand the basics of the game, especially if they have an older sibling or cousin or playmate who's modeling it for them. We had gotten it for my oldest when he was three, and my middle child, who was 18 months at the time, watched with fascination for about three rounds and then plopped down in my lap and demanded to play too. To our surprise, he was totally able to do it with just a very little coaching about whose turn it was. Similarly, with my youngest, who had a pretty significant speech delay, wanting to play that game with her older brothers made GO AWAY MONSTER! her first three word phrase.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:05 PM on March 19, 2021 [24 favorites]
I used to cheat at Candyland by rearranging the cards when my parents weren't looking.
Doesn’t... everybody do this?
posted by Mchelly at 1:08 PM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
Doesn’t... everybody do this?
posted by Mchelly at 1:08 PM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
I once read an essay by a tabletop gamer who introduced his three-year-old daughter to the concept of making strategic choices by playing Candyland with a variant rule set. Instead of drawing one card and moving to the dictated color, each player drew two cards and had to choose one to obey and one to discard. I like that.
The version of Candyland which I just started playing with my 4yo son last weekend includes this as a variant rule.
I have also imagined a War variant in which each player gets exactly half the deck and is allowed to stack it however they want before starting, and again after a player has run out their deck.
posted by gauche at 1:09 PM on March 19, 2021 [5 favorites]
The version of Candyland which I just started playing with my 4yo son last weekend includes this as a variant rule.
I have also imagined a War variant in which each player gets exactly half the deck and is allowed to stack it however they want before starting, and again after a player has run out their deck.
posted by gauche at 1:09 PM on March 19, 2021 [5 favorites]
If you say Candyland three times while standing in front of a mirror, you wind up having to play the game three times.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:12 PM on March 19, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:12 PM on March 19, 2021 [7 favorites]
I used to cheat at Candyland by rearranging the cards when my parents weren't looking.
Doesn’t... everybody do this?
posted by Mchelly
And so begins the slippery slope to robbing the bank in Monopoly.
posted by Splunge at 1:15 PM on March 19, 2021 [15 favorites]
Doesn’t... everybody do this?
posted by Mchelly
And so begins the slippery slope to robbing the bank in Monopoly.
posted by Splunge at 1:15 PM on March 19, 2021 [15 favorites]
When I play Chutes and Ladders, War, or Candyland with the kids, I can’t help but think of it as just an algorithm that we’re all executing together. Despite myself, I spend the whole time designing programs in my head which would let you play the game 10,000 times per second and never again have to shuffle or spin or count spaces on a board.
Especially Chutes and Ladders. Especially that one.
posted by lostburner at 1:17 PM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
Especially Chutes and Ladders. Especially that one.
posted by lostburner at 1:17 PM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
Setbacks or advancements are purely chance and that's a valuable lesson.
One day when my niece Peaches was five or six, she was playing Snakes & Ladders with my dad and was very much ahead of him. She told him sagely and kindly that he "should practice at home with Grandma". Then she landed on square 99 and took that long ride on the snake down to square one, and he won after all.
I'm sure valuable lessons were learned that day.
posted by orange swan at 1:25 PM on March 19, 2021 [11 favorites]
One day when my niece Peaches was five or six, she was playing Snakes & Ladders with my dad and was very much ahead of him. She told him sagely and kindly that he "should practice at home with Grandma". Then she landed on square 99 and took that long ride on the snake down to square one, and he won after all.
I'm sure valuable lessons were learned that day.
posted by orange swan at 1:25 PM on March 19, 2021 [11 favorites]
i love it. mostly because the structure is simple enough to get at the real point: how to be gracious at a win, and be cheerful/courteous at a loss. it's an amazing pedogologic (sp?) tool and i loved watching all of my children evolve through it. that's the fun part for an adult.
posted by j_curiouser at 1:41 PM on March 19, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by j_curiouser at 1:41 PM on March 19, 2021 [8 favorites]
I was just thinking the other day about taking away all the choices does make the game seem fairer to a small child who can't really strategize. It also made me think of Chutes and Ladders, which also has no choices, but (the version I had growing up) was decorated with art intent on teaching kids to make good choices.
posted by ckape at 1:54 PM on March 19, 2021
posted by ckape at 1:54 PM on March 19, 2021
Egyptian Rat Screw
I played this a lot during junior high school.
I think I learned this at CTY?
We had the 1978 version, too. Honestly, I don't remember any backstory. When you have many children of many different ages running around an apartment, a game that can include some of the younger ones can be very helpful.
posted by praemunire at 1:55 PM on March 19, 2021
I played this a lot during junior high school.
I think I learned this at CTY?
We had the 1978 version, too. Honestly, I don't remember any backstory. When you have many children of many different ages running around an apartment, a game that can include some of the younger ones can be very helpful.
posted by praemunire at 1:55 PM on March 19, 2021
I once read an essay by a tabletop gamer who introduced his three-year-old daughter to the concept of making strategic choices by playing Candyland with a variant rule set. Instead of drawing one card and moving to the dictated color, each player drew two cards and had to choose one to obey and one to discard. I like that.
Mod-ability is a big thing Candyland has going for it. Once the kids have learned the base boardgame lessons of turn-taking, moving a piece to a place, sportsmanship and so on, and are ready for something a little chewier -- well, you've already got a board and some pawns and some cards, as well as a simple and straightforward premise that can handle alterations and additions that a more complex game maybe couldn't. Perfect for mixing things up Calvinball-style.
posted by rifflesby at 2:02 PM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
Mod-ability is a big thing Candyland has going for it. Once the kids have learned the base boardgame lessons of turn-taking, moving a piece to a place, sportsmanship and so on, and are ready for something a little chewier -- well, you've already got a board and some pawns and some cards, as well as a simple and straightforward premise that can handle alterations and additions that a more complex game maybe couldn't. Perfect for mixing things up Calvinball-style.
posted by rifflesby at 2:02 PM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
i love it. mostly because the structure is simple enough to get at the real point: how to be gracious at a win, and be cheerful/courteous at a loss.
The real point is to teach predestination, so that the children will grow to be fearsome warriors against the heresy of voluntarism
posted by thelonius at 2:19 PM on March 19, 2021 [19 favorites]
The real point is to teach predestination, so that the children will grow to be fearsome warriors against the heresy of voluntarism
posted by thelonius at 2:19 PM on March 19, 2021 [19 favorites]
The real point is to teach the Law of Attraction and sell six year-olds copies of The Secret.
posted by GuyZero at 2:21 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 2:21 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
Ha, joke's on you: There is no free will and the universe is deterministic, so Candyland is as much a game as any other in this world in which no decisions can actually be made.
posted by General Malaise at 2:37 PM on March 19, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by General Malaise at 2:37 PM on March 19, 2021 [18 favorites]
This is fascinating. Thanks!
I'm not going to claim candyland isn't a game. But, it belongs to special class of games where no decisions are made. Like slot machines and scratch-off lottery tickets, which are also probably interesting if you're a five year old who finally has a fair chance to beat your parents at something.
posted by eotvos at 2:39 PM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm not going to claim candyland isn't a game. But, it belongs to special class of games where no decisions are made. Like slot machines and scratch-off lottery tickets, which are also probably interesting if you're a five year old who finally has a fair chance to beat your parents at something.
posted by eotvos at 2:39 PM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
Gambling is a game in so far as the player gets to choose how much to wager.
Candyland has the same decision framework I suppose. We can quote the great philosopher WOPR on this topic: "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."
posted by GuyZero at 2:48 PM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
Candyland has the same decision framework I suppose. We can quote the great philosopher WOPR on this topic: "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."
posted by GuyZero at 2:48 PM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
Who played Candyland by drawing the cards in the default order? Presumably the same losers who never learned how to draw two cards but only reveal or fully grab the one you want. Candyland is only deterministic if you play it like a goober, I think real kids are much more likely to implement elements that make it more fun anyway. I think the same applies to most of your standard board games. Monopoly is a super shitty game where the point is not to have fun but to acquire a bloodthirst for bourgeoisie bones. The more interesting meta-game is either cheating as the banker, or watching the banker to catch their inevitable cheating. Anyone playing a game of Monopoly by the rule book is not your friend, nor your family, they are an antagonist.
posted by GoblinHoney at 2:51 PM on March 19, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by GoblinHoney at 2:51 PM on March 19, 2021 [4 favorites]
I used to cheat at Candyland by rearranging the cards when my parents weren't looking.
I used to do this with my baby cousins, because the older one tended to be lucky and the younger one would lose it when her sister won again and again.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:51 PM on March 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
I used to do this with my baby cousins, because the older one tended to be lucky and the younger one would lose it when her sister won again and again.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:51 PM on March 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
Scratch-off tickets are interesting in whether they can be considered a game. The player does make a decision, their wager, but the expected outcome is deeply negative. If you make choices but the outcome is extremely predictable, is it still a game?
What's weird about things we label games is that as long as there are a lot of decisions we'll call something a game even if there's no meaningful outcome. D&D is universally called a game and involves a lot of choices, but the outcome is completely irrelevant.
posted by GuyZero at 2:55 PM on March 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
What's weird about things we label games is that as long as there are a lot of decisions we'll call something a game even if there's no meaningful outcome. D&D is universally called a game and involves a lot of choices, but the outcome is completely irrelevant.
posted by GuyZero at 2:55 PM on March 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
No, Candyland, (nor War), is really a "game", as there are no decisions at all. It is a decent tool for introducing some gaming concepts, like, "taking turns" to very young kids. Also, being a good winner/loser, because it wasn't your mistakes in play that led to the win/loss, which makes it easier for kids to understand the concept. But, there are so many better kids games. They just don't have the legacy and distribution that Candyland has...
posted by Windopaene at 2:56 PM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Windopaene at 2:56 PM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
It is a decent tool for introducing some gaming concepts, like, "taking turns" to very young kids.
And colors. Kids young enough to play Candyland don't always know their numbers well enough to roll dice.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:09 PM on March 19, 2021 [4 favorites]
And colors. Kids young enough to play Candyland don't always know their numbers well enough to roll dice.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:09 PM on March 19, 2021 [4 favorites]
It is interesting that both Monopoly and Candyland are board games that both were designed by women, are generally played outside of their originally intended purpose, and are declared "not fun" by a significant proportion of the population, but one for being too fair and the other for being not fair enough.
posted by subocoyne at 3:10 PM on March 19, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by subocoyne at 3:10 PM on March 19, 2021 [7 favorites]
The modern Candyland includes cards for each of the lands which can be devastating. If you're playing it straight, I recommend removing those. Definitely going to try the "pick 2 cards and choose 1 and discard 1" method with my 5 year old tonight.
I learned Egyptian Rat Screw in high school but we (in 1999) called it Egyptian Rat Fuck.
posted by sleeping bear at 3:33 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
I learned Egyptian Rat Screw in high school but we (in 1999) called it Egyptian Rat Fuck.
posted by sleeping bear at 3:33 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
Back in the late 70’s, Backgammon was the rage and half the people in the company cafeteria were playing it at lunch. I kept suggesting that we should sit at the table and play Candyland, as sort of a statement to those following the fad.
posted by njohnson23 at 3:33 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 3:33 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
> Setbacks or advancements are purely chance and that's a valuable lesson. I mean, it's arguably as good a model of reality as the closed-system market dynamics of a lot of the popular board games nowadays.
I disagree with this so strongly -- both in terms of teaching a philosophy of how to think about interacting with the real world, and in terms of games that are fun to play and teach something useful. "Results are determined purely by chance" is not an accurate or helpful mental model for nearly any real world situation.
There's some parallel universe where the ubiquitous childhood game is not monopoly but chinatown, where 12 year olds learn to make the best of the hand they are dealt by making the most win-win exchanges with their fellow players, or learning the hilarious differences in how prices get set when there's one seller and two competing buyers vs two competing sellers and only one buyer.
posted by are-coral-made at 3:49 PM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
I disagree with this so strongly -- both in terms of teaching a philosophy of how to think about interacting with the real world, and in terms of games that are fun to play and teach something useful. "Results are determined purely by chance" is not an accurate or helpful mental model for nearly any real world situation.
There's some parallel universe where the ubiquitous childhood game is not monopoly but chinatown, where 12 year olds learn to make the best of the hand they are dealt by making the most win-win exchanges with their fellow players, or learning the hilarious differences in how prices get set when there's one seller and two competing buyers vs two competing sellers and only one buyer.
posted by are-coral-made at 3:49 PM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
Back in the late 70’s, Backgammon was the rage and half the people in the company cafeteria were playing it at lunch.
No joke, when I got my first real job after university I asked my father if he had any advice and his advice was to not get pulled into playing bridge at lunch.
Reader, this advice was easier to follow than I anticipated.
posted by GuyZero at 3:52 PM on March 19, 2021 [10 favorites]
No joke, when I got my first real job after university I asked my father if he had any advice and his advice was to not get pulled into playing bridge at lunch.
Reader, this advice was easier to follow than I anticipated.
posted by GuyZero at 3:52 PM on March 19, 2021 [10 favorites]
Definitely going to try the "pick 2 cards and choose 1 and discard 1" method with my 5 year old tonight.
I think the next step after that would be that you keep the cards you use, and can trade in three of the same color for a free turn.
I learned Egyptian Rat Screw in high school but we (in 1999) called it Egyptian Rat Fuck.
Same here (except '93), 'screw' felt like an obvious bowdlerization and we were Quentin Tarantino fans. Side note: I watched this video recently and was surprised to learn there were a lot of rules we didn't know about -- we only slapped for pairs!
posted by rifflesby at 4:11 PM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
I think the next step after that would be that you keep the cards you use, and can trade in three of the same color for a free turn.
I learned Egyptian Rat Screw in high school but we (in 1999) called it Egyptian Rat Fuck.
Same here (except '93), 'screw' felt like an obvious bowdlerization and we were Quentin Tarantino fans. Side note: I watched this video recently and was surprised to learn there were a lot of rules we didn't know about -- we only slapped for pairs!
posted by rifflesby at 4:11 PM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
I have 4 kids, so I have played a lot of Candyland over the years. My youngest had a crush on Queen Frostine when he was about 3. He pitched an absolute fit if somebody else drew her card. I became very adept at finding her and slipping her back in the pile so he would draw her. One of the other boys had a thing for Princess Lolly.
One year the kids all got a hand held electronic game for Christmas. This would have been about 2003. One of them got this Candyland game, which they still quote to this day!
posted by Biblio at 4:28 PM on March 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
One year the kids all got a hand held electronic game for Christmas. This would have been about 2003. One of them got this Candyland game, which they still quote to this day!
posted by Biblio at 4:28 PM on March 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
The art on the game board itself is also interesting to me. My version (1970s) had ridiculously delicious looking artwork and felt like a magical world. My current kids' version looks like a travesty.
Lord yes, this. And the game itself seems somehow smaller and denuded, as well. Chutes and Ladders have suffered the same fate. Today’s versions are pale pretenders.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:33 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
Lord yes, this. And the game itself seems somehow smaller and denuded, as well. Chutes and Ladders have suffered the same fate. Today’s versions are pale pretenders.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:33 PM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
It's interesting seeing the exact same "is it a game?" discussion applied to Candyland as is to (kinetic) visual novels, which have all the trappings of computer games but no decisions.
posted by one for the books at 5:15 PM on March 19, 2021
posted by one for the books at 5:15 PM on March 19, 2021
My four year old loves CandyLand and I'm fine with that. I can do something else while "playing" with her as it requires exactly zero thought on my part and every game is a little different, which she likes. In terms of meeting expectations, it's a great game.
Sometimes she wants to play Hi-Ho Cherry-o, which I hate with a passion.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 5:30 PM on March 19, 2021
Sometimes she wants to play Hi-Ho Cherry-o, which I hate with a passion.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 5:30 PM on March 19, 2021
SARTRE: Ahh, that's where you're wrong Camus. The game may "merely exist" but the players do not. (single link Existential Comics)
posted by otherchaz at 5:56 PM on March 19, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by otherchaz at 5:56 PM on March 19, 2021 [9 favorites]
SLAP!
And now I get all the comments, because the top and bottom comments were the same, right? I think I'm getting the hang of Metafilter Rat Bowdlerization.
posted by adekllny at 6:21 PM on March 19, 2021 [19 favorites]
And now I get all the comments, because the top and bottom comments were the same, right? I think I'm getting the hang of Metafilter Rat Bowdlerization.
posted by adekllny at 6:21 PM on March 19, 2021 [19 favorites]
Turns out we played the 1955 version, which must have been a hand-me-down from someone else. I mostly remember the ice cream bar being my favorite card- it looked absolutely delicious.
posted by oneirodynia at 8:18 PM on March 19, 2021
posted by oneirodynia at 8:18 PM on March 19, 2021
rifflesby: "Side note: I watched this video recently and was surprised to learn there were a lot of rules we didn't know about -- we only slapped for pairs!"
That's what we played, what the video calls "Beggar my neighbor" (though I'm pretty certain the "honor" you paid in our game was, A=1, J=2, Q=4, K=3) and slapping pairs only. We called it Slapjack, even though it obviously had nothing to do with slapping jacks. Is there a name for that game?
posted by team lowkey at 10:14 PM on March 19, 2021
That's what we played, what the video calls "Beggar my neighbor" (though I'm pretty certain the "honor" you paid in our game was, A=1, J=2, Q=4, K=3) and slapping pairs only. We called it Slapjack, even though it obviously had nothing to do with slapping jacks. Is there a name for that game?
posted by team lowkey at 10:14 PM on March 19, 2021
My favorite game has always been Candyland, BECAUSE it requires no choices. Choices make me very anxious. Thanks for the Existential Comics link, and I am with Team Camus on this one.
posted by mermayd at 9:42 AM on March 20, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by mermayd at 9:42 AM on March 20, 2021 [5 favorites]
A very first game that the adults in my family enjoyed a lot more than Candyland was Go Away Monster. Yes! I like to play Hoot Owl, Hoot with my niblings for the same reason; it’s just enough interest for everyone and you’re working towards a common goal.
In re: Egyptian Rat Screw- that’s what we called it growing up in Alaska and some friends and I played alllll the time when waiting around for stuff in high school. I can destroy absolutely anyone at it, still, at 41 damn years old.
In the Beforetimes, one day a week I had about 90 minutes to kind of babysit a bunch of 7th and 8th graders between the end of school and the start an honor orchestra. I taught them all how to play, watched as they built their skills and then stepped in every week to slaughter the tribute of their choice just before rehearsal started. It was pretty great.
posted by charmedimsure at 1:06 PM on March 20, 2021
In re: Egyptian Rat Screw- that’s what we called it growing up in Alaska and some friends and I played alllll the time when waiting around for stuff in high school. I can destroy absolutely anyone at it, still, at 41 damn years old.
In the Beforetimes, one day a week I had about 90 minutes to kind of babysit a bunch of 7th and 8th graders between the end of school and the start an honor orchestra. I taught them all how to play, watched as they built their skills and then stepped in every week to slaughter the tribute of their choice just before rehearsal started. It was pretty great.
posted by charmedimsure at 1:06 PM on March 20, 2021
I have never been beaten at egyptian rat screw, and none of my cousins or childhood friends will play me any more. :(
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:38 PM on March 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:38 PM on March 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
oneirodynia, I'm getting a 403 Forbidden when I click on your "1955 version" link.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:40 AM on March 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Thorzdad at 9:40 AM on March 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
I worked on two video game adaptations of Candyland in the late 90s. It's a great game for teaching you the mechanics of games—how to take turns, drawing a card, moving a token along the board. But there is no strategy in Candyland, there isn't anything you can do to improve your chances of winning or lessen the chances of losing. It's exceedingly deterministic.
It's a great experience for the target audience but I wouldn't call it a great game. There are no competitive Candyland tournaments. "Oh man, she's using the Princess Lolly Gambit! Can he counter with Lord Licorice's Lament?"
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:37 AM on March 21, 2021
It's a great experience for the target audience but I wouldn't call it a great game. There are no competitive Candyland tournaments. "Oh man, she's using the Princess Lolly Gambit! Can he counter with Lord Licorice's Lament?"
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:37 AM on March 21, 2021
Also, let's not forget Landyland, by Cheapass games. Finally, a use for all those extra land cards from Magic: The Gathering.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 1:53 PM on March 21, 2021
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 1:53 PM on March 21, 2021
The Candyland board has a menacing tone. It looks like two children (Hansel & Gretel perhaps) being lured to their demise as they follow a trail of candy to the witch's house.
posted by cazoo at 9:08 PM on March 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by cazoo at 9:08 PM on March 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
Several years ago I attended a panel on game design at GenCon, and one of the panelists (whose name I can't remember) claimed to have fixed Candyland.
He said that prior to his going to work at Hasbro, the final space on the board was purple, which resulted in much frustration when the lead player -- who probably was a small child -- never drew the proper color, allowing another player to come from behind and win. So he changed the last space to a rainbow, signifying that any card could be the winning one.
Wikipedia's entry on the game confirms that the game changed in this way in 2004, but also that this frustration seemed to result more from a misinterpretation of the rules.
posted by Gelatin at 5:25 AM on March 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
He said that prior to his going to work at Hasbro, the final space on the board was purple, which resulted in much frustration when the lead player -- who probably was a small child -- never drew the proper color, allowing another player to come from behind and win. So he changed the last space to a rainbow, signifying that any card could be the winning one.
Wikipedia's entry on the game confirms that the game changed in this way in 2004, but also that this frustration seemed to result more from a misinterpretation of the rules.
posted by Gelatin at 5:25 AM on March 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
oneirodynia, I'm getting a 403 Forbidden when I click on your "1955 version" link.
Hmm, that's strange, I can still see it. Here's another photo of the 1955 board.
posted by oneirodynia at 5:14 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
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posted by kaibutsu at 11:07 AM on March 19, 2021 [38 favorites]