An Annoying, Self-Absorbed Cadre of Entitled Young Hollywood Hotshots
April 3, 2021 2:50 AM Subscribe
We all know it, but nonetheless it’s shocking to discover that the people we watched in our youth don’t stay that age forever — they keep getting older, like everyone does. But for fans of [Emilio] Estevez, that realization may be even more poignant. For years, he seemed permanently young, part of the Brat Pack, a very Gen X thing that, in retrospect, was truly a stupid thing — and, besides, none of them liked being lumped in that group, anyway. But despite the family he was born in and the younger brother he came of age with, Estevez always seemed hard to define or pin down. And because of that, he never could fully shed the Brat Pack straightjacket. In the process, he has aged before our eyes without us really taking it in. from Emilio Estevez and the Scourge of the ‘Brat Pack’ Straitjacket [Mel Magazine]
From the magazine's series on "Mis-Leading Men", "a regular feature where we look back at the actors who ruled Hollywood for one brief shining moment."
John Cusack Was Once King of the Romantic Comedy Because He Was All Wrong for the Role
Wherever You Find Him, You’ve Got a Friend in Jason Segel
Ted Danson Was Never Sam Malone. That’s Why He Was Such a Great Sam Malone.
The Hayden Christensen Comeback Is Upon Us
Johnny Depp and the Lie of the Heroic Misfit
Albert Brooks Mastered the Art of Disappointment
Dennis Quaid Would Never Let Us Down
Vince Vaughn Has Charted the Sad Trajectory of Entitled White Dudes Since ‘Swingers’
The Eternal Babyface of Matthew Broderick
From the magazine's series on "Mis-Leading Men", "a regular feature where we look back at the actors who ruled Hollywood for one brief shining moment."
John Cusack Was Once King of the Romantic Comedy Because He Was All Wrong for the Role
Wherever You Find Him, You’ve Got a Friend in Jason Segel
Ted Danson Was Never Sam Malone. That’s Why He Was Such a Great Sam Malone.
The Hayden Christensen Comeback Is Upon Us
Johnny Depp and the Lie of the Heroic Misfit
Albert Brooks Mastered the Art of Disappointment
Dennis Quaid Would Never Let Us Down
Vince Vaughn Has Charted the Sad Trajectory of Entitled White Dudes Since ‘Swingers’
The Eternal Babyface of Matthew Broderick
Not to derail this with my obvious importantance, but Ted Danson is my 13th cousin twice removed. I'm practically Hollywood royalty.
posted by krisjohn at 3:32 AM on April 3, 2021 [31 favorites]
posted by krisjohn at 3:32 AM on April 3, 2021 [31 favorites]
I always thought he was more talented than Charlie. And I’m intrigued by the possibility of a third Young Guns movie.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:32 AM on April 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:32 AM on April 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
The John Cusack one stings a bit. It really is ridiculous that there is no room for moderately profitable small movies like Grosse Point Blank. It wasn’t a tent pole, it wasn’t the beginning of an expanded universe, or obviously Oscar bait, it was just a thoroughly enjoyable movie made by people who knew they were making something fun.
Hearing that he’s in the video on demand grind-em-out-for-paycheck rut rather than aging gracefully into an actor up for serious roles makes me realize that, by now, Lloyd Dobbler would probably be rushing from gig job to gig job trying to make ends meet. Cusack deserved better, but then again, I think we all did.
posted by Ghidorah at 4:34 AM on April 3, 2021 [61 favorites]
Hearing that he’s in the video on demand grind-em-out-for-paycheck rut rather than aging gracefully into an actor up for serious roles makes me realize that, by now, Lloyd Dobbler would probably be rushing from gig job to gig job trying to make ends meet. Cusack deserved better, but then again, I think we all did.
posted by Ghidorah at 4:34 AM on April 3, 2021 [61 favorites]
Vince Vaughn Has Charted the Sad Trajectory of Entitled White Dudes Since ‘Swingers’
I can't remember where I read it, but someone once described Vaughn as looking like the Greek God of Hangovers.
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:18 AM on April 3, 2021 [24 favorites]
I can't remember where I read it, but someone once described Vaughn as looking like the Greek God of Hangovers.
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:18 AM on April 3, 2021 [24 favorites]
These are interesting and fun different reflections - I appreciate that each has more of a thesis statement than the usual 'where are they now'. But this part of the Emilio Estevez piece made me pause:
However, it sounds like he definitely had a blast on the set of his dad’s movie Apocalypse Now, reportedly losing his virginity at 14.
Like, at the time I know the 'show business adjacent boychild loses virginity to groupie passed over by an older cast member, later brags about it' was a thing that happened, but it's a little jarring to see it in a modern day retrospective without any reflection that it's pretty fucked up.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:26 AM on April 3, 2021 [26 favorites]
However, it sounds like he definitely had a blast on the set of his dad’s movie Apocalypse Now, reportedly losing his virginity at 14.
Like, at the time I know the 'show business adjacent boychild loses virginity to groupie passed over by an older cast member, later brags about it' was a thing that happened, but it's a little jarring to see it in a modern day retrospective without any reflection that it's pretty fucked up.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:26 AM on April 3, 2021 [26 favorites]
> by now, Lloyd Dobbler would probably be rushing from gig job to gig job trying to make ends meet.
Say Anything was a friend from university's favourite movie. She was always pining for a sequel and I would always tell her that she was almost certainly better off without one.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:40 AM on April 3, 2021 [6 favorites]
Say Anything was a friend from university's favourite movie. She was always pining for a sequel and I would always tell her that she was almost certainly better off without one.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:40 AM on April 3, 2021 [6 favorites]
Seeing The Public, and knowing that it was a total labor of love for Estevez, who wrote it, directed it, produced it, stars in it, and gives himself most of the best lines, has complicated my feelings about the guy. As a Gen-X person who went through some tough situations and went on to work in an urban public library, this seems like something I would like, and yet I thought it was very mediocre. As well-intentioned as it is, I don't think it passes the Bechdel test, there's only one character that's even close to fully developed, and there's a segment played for comedy, with people asking for a photograph of Jesus or a life-size globe, that felt a lot like punching down.
posted by box at 7:52 AM on April 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 7:52 AM on April 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
Re-watching Cheers via streaming, the first season is really great. There's a few stale jokes but the writing is sharp and like the article says Sam doesn't really come across as the character the writers were trying to write - he's a sweet dude and his womanizing comes off as a little forced.
posted by GuyZero at 8:04 AM on April 3, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 8:04 AM on April 3, 2021 [7 favorites]
Emilio Estevez and
ctrl-f: Repo Man = zero hits.
What happened to Emilio is that very, very early in his career he stopped being in f***ing great movies. I don't think it's any more mysterious than that. Not saying it's ever been easy to find f***ing great movies to be part of in Hollywood but that, for me, is part of the work, particularly if you come from showbiz loyalty.
posted by philip-random at 8:17 AM on April 3, 2021 [15 favorites]
ctrl-f: Repo Man = zero hits.
What happened to Emilio is that very, very early in his career he stopped being in f***ing great movies. I don't think it's any more mysterious than that. Not saying it's ever been easy to find f***ing great movies to be part of in Hollywood but that, for me, is part of the work, particularly if you come from showbiz loyalty.
posted by philip-random at 8:17 AM on April 3, 2021 [15 favorites]
I always thought he was more talented than Charlie.
It might be a bit of a challenge to find a Charlie Sheen movie where he's not obviously and repeatedly outclassed by his co-stars. Between that and his incredibly shitty behavior, he deserves the Brat Pack label much more than his brother, who got some decent indie cred from Repo Man and is generally watchable in just about anything, even movies that I don't like. (His part in St. Elmo's Fire seems to have little to do with any of the overheated drama of the other characters.)
It looks like an interesting series of pieces, and I'll probably get through most if not all of them, although some of them seem a bit unnecessary, such as the one on Depp. (Although maybe it is, given that there are still people on social media defending him.) And a lot of people are reconsidering Say Anything..., it seems; if anyone brings up the boom-box scene, it's usually to the effect of "Ew, no, dude, that's just creepy" in the manner of this classic Onion piece. I was an instant fan of Cusack's after The Sure Thing, but that faded with one questionable choice after another (two Savage Steve Holland movies in a row?).
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:39 AM on April 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
It might be a bit of a challenge to find a Charlie Sheen movie where he's not obviously and repeatedly outclassed by his co-stars. Between that and his incredibly shitty behavior, he deserves the Brat Pack label much more than his brother, who got some decent indie cred from Repo Man and is generally watchable in just about anything, even movies that I don't like. (His part in St. Elmo's Fire seems to have little to do with any of the overheated drama of the other characters.)
It looks like an interesting series of pieces, and I'll probably get through most if not all of them, although some of them seem a bit unnecessary, such as the one on Depp. (Although maybe it is, given that there are still people on social media defending him.) And a lot of people are reconsidering Say Anything..., it seems; if anyone brings up the boom-box scene, it's usually to the effect of "Ew, no, dude, that's just creepy" in the manner of this classic Onion piece. I was an instant fan of Cusack's after The Sure Thing, but that faded with one questionable choice after another (two Savage Steve Holland movies in a row?).
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:39 AM on April 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
two Savage Steve Holland movies in a row?
YOU TAKE THAT BACK. YOU TAKE IT BACK RIGHT NOW.
(The questionable choices point is true overall, but I take issue with this vicious slander).
posted by fedward at 8:49 AM on April 3, 2021 [10 favorites]
YOU TAKE THAT BACK. YOU TAKE IT BACK RIGHT NOW.
(The questionable choices point is true overall, but I take issue with this vicious slander).
posted by fedward at 8:49 AM on April 3, 2021 [10 favorites]
Sadly, I think that Lloyd Dobbler now owns a crossfit gym and spends a lot of time discussing conspiracy theories on the internet.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:02 AM on April 3, 2021 [27 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:02 AM on April 3, 2021 [27 favorites]
Vaughn's last time on screen of "True Detective" season two rattled me. His arguments with his victims, his family, his life all while paddling sand et cetera ... I hadn't seen a moment that captures hallucinatory self hate and ghosts so vividly and realistically.
Although season two was my least favorite of the three seasons, Vaughn's performance was on.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 9:20 AM on April 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
Although season two was my least favorite of the three seasons, Vaughn's performance was on.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 9:20 AM on April 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
Indeed, in films like Benny & Joon and What’s Eating Gilbert Grape, he depicts young men who simply lack the tools to function in “normal” society.
The last thing my first real girlfriend and I did together before she dumped me was go to see Benny & Joon in the theatre (she loved it, I hated it but pretended I didn't), so I always had a personal dislike of this phase of Depp's persona.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:36 AM on April 3, 2021 [7 favorites]
The last thing my first real girlfriend and I did together before she dumped me was go to see Benny & Joon in the theatre (she loved it, I hated it but pretended I didn't), so I always had a personal dislike of this phase of Depp's persona.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:36 AM on April 3, 2021 [7 favorites]
Emilio Estevez and
ctrl-f: Repo Man = zero hits.
Yeah really WTF? He's always Otto first and foremost, to me.
What happened to Emilio is that very, very early in his career he
stopped being in f***ing great movies.
Maybe, but so what? Didn'y y'all see The Way? Great stuff, even though he's obviously not Otto anymore.
As for Vince Vaughn, the less said, the better. Not a fan.
posted by Rash at 9:38 AM on April 3, 2021 [6 favorites]
ctrl-f: Repo Man = zero hits.
Yeah really WTF? He's always Otto first and foremost, to me.
What happened to Emilio is that very, very early in his career he
stopped being in f***ing great movies.
Maybe, but so what? Didn'y y'all see The Way? Great stuff, even though he's obviously not Otto anymore.
As for Vince Vaughn, the less said, the better. Not a fan.
posted by Rash at 9:38 AM on April 3, 2021 [6 favorites]
You will never ever convince me that Grosse Pointe Blank isn't the sequel to Say Anything. The names and the backstory have been changed (improved) for intellectual property purposes, but that's Lloyd Dobbler.
I don't want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought, or processed. You know, as a career, I don't want to do that.
He left himself almost no choice but to join the army and become a hitman, only to eventually realize that he's still just selling something processed.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:56 AM on April 3, 2021 [26 favorites]
I don't want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought, or processed. You know, as a career, I don't want to do that.
He left himself almost no choice but to join the army and become a hitman, only to eventually realize that he's still just selling something processed.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:56 AM on April 3, 2021 [26 favorites]
Broderick is far and away the best thing in Netflix's Daybreak series.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:05 AM on April 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by soundguy99 at 10:05 AM on April 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
Vince Vaughn showed up as a Funkhouser (RIP Bob Einstein) in the most recent season of Curb Your Enthusiasm ("Curb").
posted by stevil at 10:17 AM on April 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by stevil at 10:17 AM on April 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
What happened to Emilio is that very, very early in his career he
stopped being in f***ing great movies.
And now my memory has just jogged in not very pleasant way. I've been reminded of Emilio's flirtation with being an auteur, which did not go very well at all.
posted by philip-random at 10:28 AM on April 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
stopped being in f***ing great movies.
And now my memory has just jogged in not very pleasant way. I've been reminded of Emilio's flirtation with being an auteur, which did not go very well at all.
posted by philip-random at 10:28 AM on April 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
I liked The Way; it was a very earnest and well-meaning movie. And apparently it encouraged even more people to walk the Camino.
posted by suelac at 11:00 AM on April 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by suelac at 11:00 AM on April 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
The more you ctrl-f, the less intelligent you are.
posted by thelonius at 12:22 PM on April 3, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 12:22 PM on April 3, 2021 [9 favorites]
He was already in his mid-twenties when he was in Breakfast Club so it's not surprising that he's older than you think he should be.
posted by octothorpe at 12:25 PM on April 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 12:25 PM on April 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
Had to look up Steve Guttenburg after seeing him crop up in Cocaine Decor twitter thread about '3 Men & A Baby'. Seemed to be all over the place in the 80's.
posted by phigmov at 12:35 PM on April 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by phigmov at 12:35 PM on April 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
Last year my boyfriend and I were walking with my dog and an older man smiled at her while walking past us (which is not unsurprising, she's very beautiful and it happens all the time). Suddenly my dog found a huge piece of bread on the sidewalk and gobbled it down super fast; I yelled "NOOOOOOOOOO" and the older man turned around and laughed. My boyfriend, mid-30s, loved the Mighty Ducks as a kid, was like "Holy shit I think that's Emilio Estevez!!!" but I was skeptical. Definitely didn't match the image I had of him in my head. Anyway, older man went into the same donut store that we were heading to and my boyfriend struck up a conversation with him via mentioning my dog (ever the wing-woman). Turns out: my boyfriend has excellent Emilio-dar and Emilio Estevez is a dog person.
posted by thebots at 12:38 PM on April 3, 2021 [37 favorites]
posted by thebots at 12:38 PM on April 3, 2021 [37 favorites]
I lost my fondness for Cusack after reading the story about a crew member on The Thin Red Line who rubbed him the wrong way so he ended every scene he could by shitting his pants and walking off the set naked from the waist down, leaving the poor working stiff to clean up his soiled pants.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:28 PM on April 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:28 PM on April 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
ctrl-f: Repo Man = zero hits.
All this shows is that your ctrl-F is broken, because Repo Man appears in the text and there's a photo from it.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 4:05 PM on April 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
All this shows is that your ctrl-F is broken, because Repo Man appears in the text and there's a photo from it.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 4:05 PM on April 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
@DirtyOldTown: [citation needed]
posted by krisjohn at 4:28 PM on April 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by krisjohn at 4:28 PM on April 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
This is one of many links recounting Cusack's repeated pants pooping, but to be fair, I can't find one confirming that it was intended to ruin a specific PA's life.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:19 PM on April 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:19 PM on April 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
Although here is a reference on AskMe from a MeFite who has heard the same thing.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:33 PM on April 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:33 PM on April 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
YOU TAKE THAT BACK. YOU TAKE IT BACK RIGHT NOW.
Shan't. Better Off Dead was fine, if a bit self-consciously quirky in spots; One Crazy Summer was like Savage Steve wanted to remake the first film with less originality and more people that you've heard of, to see if it made more money. (It did, but not a lot.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:41 PM on April 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
Shan't. Better Off Dead was fine, if a bit self-consciously quirky in spots; One Crazy Summer was like Savage Steve wanted to remake the first film with less originality and more people that you've heard of, to see if it made more money. (It did, but not a lot.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:41 PM on April 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
One Crazy Summer is entirely worth it for Bobcat Goldthwait's monologue about the day kid who got picked on.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:07 PM on April 3, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:07 PM on April 3, 2021 [6 favorites]
his shows is that your ctrl-F is broken, because Repo Man appears in the text and
I was referring to this thread, though I can see how that's not clear.
posted by philip-random at 8:42 PM on April 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
I was referring to this thread, though I can see how that's not clear.
posted by philip-random at 8:42 PM on April 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
One Crazy Summer also has an elaborate build-up just to get to a single set piece of a fire-breathing Godzilla destroying a city. I will always love it for how strained the setup was and how great the set piece still was, even under that strain. Did it make any sense? No. Was it still damned funny? Yes.
posted by fedward at 8:54 PM on April 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by fedward at 8:54 PM on April 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
Seconding Emilio's Repo Man and the Way.
He's an organic farmer; grows his own food.
Re: Apocalypse Now ~ that movie was an unbelievable confluence of extremes on every level. If you can track down the documentary Hearts of Darkness, do. Made from home movies filmed by Eleanor Coppola during the movie shoot. Not only did Emilio come of age there, check out Sophia Coppola's younger age adventures!
I love Emilio Estevez and his dad's pretty cool too!
posted by Mesaverdian at 12:23 PM on April 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
He's an organic farmer; grows his own food.
Re: Apocalypse Now ~ that movie was an unbelievable confluence of extremes on every level. If you can track down the documentary Hearts of Darkness, do. Made from home movies filmed by Eleanor Coppola during the movie shoot. Not only did Emilio come of age there, check out Sophia Coppola's younger age adventures!
I love Emilio Estevez and his dad's pretty cool too!
posted by Mesaverdian at 12:23 PM on April 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
Speaking of his dad... I just noticed that Emilio turns 59 in may. That's the same age Martin Sheen was when The West Wing started airing.
And now I haz a worst case of teh olds.
posted by mce at 7:48 AM on April 5, 2021 [5 favorites]
And now I haz a worst case of teh olds.
posted by mce at 7:48 AM on April 5, 2021 [5 favorites]
Martin Sheen is exceptional in Grace and Frankie. I've never liked RepoMan that much, so the Sheen brothers are much less talented than their father in my opinion.
That Vince Vaughan article is shitty, even if Vince Vaughan is a terrible person in real life.
I personally feel that movies can be 'un-PC', if they have a point to make, in the same way that superhero movies can kill lots of people, if they have a point to make. Why is 'un-PCness' worse than archetypical superhero movies destroying buildings and killing people? Talk about a messed up value scale.
Of course, the same is not true of real life Vince Vaughan. He can be judged for anything he says or does.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:13 AM on April 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
That Vince Vaughan article is shitty, even if Vince Vaughan is a terrible person in real life.
I personally feel that movies can be 'un-PC', if they have a point to make, in the same way that superhero movies can kill lots of people, if they have a point to make. Why is 'un-PCness' worse than archetypical superhero movies destroying buildings and killing people? Talk about a messed up value scale.
Of course, the same is not true of real life Vince Vaughan. He can be judged for anything he says or does.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:13 AM on April 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
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posted by fairmettle at 3:03 AM on April 3, 2021