That means the showrunner is Miranda Priestly, you dick
April 20, 2021 3:00 PM Subscribe
The time for Hollywood’s "White Male Genius" is over. "Well, ma’am, I wanted to say, he’s a grown-ass man in his 40s who puts more salad on the floor than in his mouth. And me, a woman half his age, getting paid less hourly than what she made as an intern out of college, shouldn’t have to be living proof of how society silently bends around white men with no protest."
It's a little sad you can't just accept her point of view and that you feel the need to judge her experiences by your own yardstick rather than by her own standards as an industry professional. She's writing to a specific audience and she's trying to be cagey enough to not destroy her own career. She gave enough details of things that are obviously outside a showrunner's assistant's job description (cleaning up the producer's salad) and being cut out and ignored and insulted for asking questions. The network itself admitted the showrunner was known to act unprofessionally. And still you want to hedge as if maybe she wasn't treated that bad?!
posted by rikschell at 3:46 PM on April 20, 2021 [47 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 3:46 PM on April 20, 2021 [47 favorites]
If your job role is explained to you by referencing anything in The Devil Wears Prada, that is a huge red flag. It seems from this person's narrative that this is the gatekeeping one must get through in order to make Hollywood entertainment. So any woman or person of color who gets through needs to have pleased (and/or not threatened) the "White Male Genius". Ugh.
I REALLY want to know what show this was.
posted by rogerroger at 3:47 PM on April 20, 2021 [10 favorites]
I REALLY want to know what show this was.
posted by rogerroger at 3:47 PM on April 20, 2021 [10 favorites]
Then, very candidly, she said I wasn’t the first person to have issues with this showrunner. He’s a specific type of personality, she said, and a lot of people don’t mesh with it.
Fuck this. I am so fucking tired of hearing that sentence. Just replace "showrunner" with your Important Male Genius role of choice. Why do these dicks always always get all the credit? They are never the sole reason a project is successful -- if anything they're usually a hindrance that must be managed out of the way. If they didn't have a steady stream of people to exploit, abuse and steal from they wouldn't have gotten anywhere at all.
posted by Stoof at 3:56 PM on April 20, 2021 [53 favorites]
Fuck this. I am so fucking tired of hearing that sentence. Just replace "showrunner" with your Important Male Genius role of choice. Why do these dicks always always get all the credit? They are never the sole reason a project is successful -- if anything they're usually a hindrance that must be managed out of the way. If they didn't have a steady stream of people to exploit, abuse and steal from they wouldn't have gotten anywhere at all.
posted by Stoof at 3:56 PM on April 20, 2021 [53 favorites]
FTA: "Once, the showrunner’s wife instructed me to clean up the mess Kyle left after he had inhaled two salads for lunch. There I was, the only person of color in the house, cleaning up chopped pieces of lettuce and dressing on my hands and knees."
I guarantee-damn-tee that this is not in the job description of "showrunner's assistant", that it's not in the job description of anybody but "janitorial and maintenance staff", and that's all I need to know about how fucking horribly she was treated.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:03 PM on April 20, 2021 [41 favorites]
I guarantee-damn-tee that this is not in the job description of "showrunner's assistant", that it's not in the job description of anybody but "janitorial and maintenance staff", and that's all I need to know about how fucking horribly she was treated.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:03 PM on April 20, 2021 [41 favorites]
I REALLY want to know what show this was.
We know it’s a multi-season network drama. And it’s run by a white man. And he’s a privileged asshole.
What do you mean, that doesn’t narrow it down?
posted by Monochrome at 4:04 PM on April 20, 2021 [56 favorites]
We know it’s a multi-season network drama. And it’s run by a white man. And he’s a privileged asshole.
What do you mean, that doesn’t narrow it down?
posted by Monochrome at 4:04 PM on April 20, 2021 [56 favorites]
I was really hoping to come here and find a lot more speculation about which show it might be. For her protection she can't name names, but damn, I really wanna direct my hate at the specific bastard, I guess?
posted by wellifyouinsist at 4:05 PM on April 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by wellifyouinsist at 4:05 PM on April 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
I guarantee-damn-tee that this is not in the job description of "showrunner's assistant", that it's not in the job description of anybody but "janitorial and maintenance staff", and that's all I need to know about how fucking horribly she was treated.
I'm skeptical that these jobs have job descriptions, which is a hallmark of abusive employers who don't want you to get any idea of your value.
"Duties as assigned..."
posted by rhizome at 4:07 PM on April 20, 2021 [14 favorites]
I'm skeptical that these jobs have job descriptions, which is a hallmark of abusive employers who don't want you to get any idea of your value.
"Duties as assigned..."
posted by rhizome at 4:07 PM on April 20, 2021 [14 favorites]
After re-reading the piece, my takeaway is that she got offered a position as a production assistant, and took it without understanding what that meant, and got a front row seat to the sausage factory. The reality is that PAs are the lowest rung on the Hollywood cursus honorum, doing the low level work needed to keep the production moving. And while it is a routinely abused job as well - many directors/producers/showrunners treat PAs as disposable because there's always a fresh young face to take that spot, her comments on some of the tasks she was given don't reflect well on her - for example, she talked about being asked to catalog all the locations in every scene, something that's important because locations cost money to shoot at, and thus need to be collected and reviewed to keep in budget - and it's the PA who does the compilation. It seemed like she thought she'd be brought into the writers' room right away, which...that's not how the industry works.
Again, PAs do get a lot of abuse and mistreatment - the salad incident is inexcusable - but at the same time, PAs are by definition meant to handle the tedious work of production, and thinking that you're above that work is going to hurt your career.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:36 PM on April 20, 2021 [23 favorites]
Again, PAs do get a lot of abuse and mistreatment - the salad incident is inexcusable - but at the same time, PAs are by definition meant to handle the tedious work of production, and thinking that you're above that work is going to hurt your career.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:36 PM on April 20, 2021 [23 favorites]
If you're an employee, remember that HR is on the company's side. They're only on the employee's side if something is also the company's side.
posted by rmd1023 at 4:43 PM on April 20, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by rmd1023 at 4:43 PM on April 20, 2021 [7 favorites]
Not that I know much about Hollywood production, but if Nancy got a promotion to staff writer and Anon was the new PA, was Nancy thrown back down the ladder when she says "Nancy was back—and in charge of everything I’d been doing. Here I was thinking I was the new Nancy, when Nancy never stopped being Nancy. " Also, why the hell did they even ask Anon's opinion at all, much less for a few weeks?
"We know it’s a multi-season network drama. And it’s run by a white man. And he’s a privileged asshole.
What do you mean, that doesn’t narrow it down?"
I think THIS narrows it down, though:
"One of the lead characters on this show is a woman of color. Something the showrunner never acknowledged to me, or discussed with me, or integrated into the show’s plot. My clown ass thought he would actually say, “Hey, as a Black woman, what was your experience with so and so?” And include it into the scripts. Nope. They know it looks horrible. Imagine that headline: “Show about Black girl fires only Black girl.”
So what show is this?
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:46 PM on April 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
"We know it’s a multi-season network drama. And it’s run by a white man. And he’s a privileged asshole.
What do you mean, that doesn’t narrow it down?"
I think THIS narrows it down, though:
"One of the lead characters on this show is a woman of color. Something the showrunner never acknowledged to me, or discussed with me, or integrated into the show’s plot. My clown ass thought he would actually say, “Hey, as a Black woman, what was your experience with so and so?” And include it into the scripts. Nope. They know it looks horrible. Imagine that headline: “Show about Black girl fires only Black girl.”
So what show is this?
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:46 PM on April 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
Any take that boils down to “maybe the author deserved what happened to them” is punching gown and a bad take, IMO.
posted by FallibleHuman at 4:48 PM on April 20, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by FallibleHuman at 4:48 PM on April 20, 2021 [20 favorites]
Specifically, because if you hire someone that’s enthusiastic and in a role for the first time, it’s your job as a manager to coach them and provide them with direction.
Not freeze them out like a goddamn coward and then fire them months later when they show more spine than you ever have.
posted by FallibleHuman at 4:51 PM on April 20, 2021 [14 favorites]
Not freeze them out like a goddamn coward and then fire them months later when they show more spine than you ever have.
posted by FallibleHuman at 4:51 PM on April 20, 2021 [14 favorites]
It speaks to my cynicism that I would immediately assume that if you're working in a desirable industry like entertainment (or fashion, for that matter) then anything with "assistant" in the title is going to include things like picking up chopped lettuce strewn about by manbabies and other tasks that have nothing to do with the creative work, because the movers and shakers in that industry think you should feel lucky to have the chance to pick up their lettuce, gods that they are. I would bet anything that this writer was also aware of this trope, was wary of it, and only joined because she was assured this would be different. And then it wasn't. So they basically lied to her to bring her in expressly for the purpose of shitting all over her. It is fucking sadistic.
posted by Anonymous at 4:53 PM on April 20, 2021
posted by Anonymous at 4:53 PM on April 20, 2021
As I explained to my female client, "Your husband is a privileged white old male dude. Your opinions don't matter. He thinks that he's a clever dick, and that he can't be clever without being a dick. Condolences."
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 4:59 PM on April 20, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 4:59 PM on April 20, 2021 [7 favorites]
anything with "assistant" in the title is going to include things like picking up chopped lettuce strewn about by manbabies and other tasks that have nothing to do with the creative work
I agree with the latter, but the former is referring to people who have at least one housekeeper at home and who know that the profession of janitor exists (not to mention the craft services/catering company). This is a culture that is being perpetuated, not a natural way to adapt to the vagaries of a movie/TV production schedule.
posted by rhizome at 5:01 PM on April 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
I agree with the latter, but the former is referring to people who have at least one housekeeper at home and who know that the profession of janitor exists (not to mention the craft services/catering company). This is a culture that is being perpetuated, not a natural way to adapt to the vagaries of a movie/TV production schedule.
posted by rhizome at 5:01 PM on April 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
You make the only woman of colour on a production team clean up food from the floor and make her sit silent in meetings when one of the characters is a woman of colour? And you lie to her about her position and give her meaningless tasks that you make sure she knows are meaningless?
And somehow the person experiencing this is at fault for reasons?
posted by lesbiassparrow at 5:02 PM on April 20, 2021 [29 favorites]
And somehow the person experiencing this is at fault for reasons?
posted by lesbiassparrow at 5:02 PM on April 20, 2021 [29 favorites]
This article is angry and sad, but I think it suffers from an incomplete setup - like I'm supposed to know the legitimate responsibilities of 'showrunner' versus 'showrunner's assistant' so I can judge and agree her responsibilities were terrible.
She told you what happened. She told you how she was treated. She told you what she witnessed. She told you she was on her hands and knees picking up salad. If you need more than that to "judge," that's on you.
posted by tzikeh at 5:04 PM on April 20, 2021 [21 favorites]
She told you what happened. She told you how she was treated. She told you what she witnessed. She told you she was on her hands and knees picking up salad. If you need more than that to "judge," that's on you.
posted by tzikeh at 5:04 PM on April 20, 2021 [21 favorites]
The Nancy thing is a bit strange - I think probably because the author is fudging things in order to maintain their anonymity.
The way TV works is that there will be a Writer’s Assistant and a Showrunner’s assistant. The former will always work in the writer’s room, taking detailed notes of every idea that is being pitched and helping build the structure of the season. The Writer’s Assistant is the most prestigious non-writing job, and good showrunners will often welcome the Writer’s Asst to pitch ideas, jokes, etc. You can think of the Writer’s Assistant as the assistant to the writers room as a whole. The Showrunner’s assistant is the hands-on assistant to the showrunner. This is a less prestigious job than Writer Assistant, more prestigious than Writer’s PA. This job can entail more or less whatever the showrunner wants it to entail (reading a book and writing coverage, setting meetings, taking calls), but personal duties like picking up dry cleaning (or, uh, cleaning the boss’s house) are NOT part of their duties.
It is very odd to me that Nancy was apparently promoted to staff writer and then demoted to writer’s assistant... I think it’s more likely she was promoted from Showrunner’s asst to writer’s assistant and then demoted again once production began.
At any rate, the central points of this essay are very clear and all too common — personal disrespect, making black women do menial tasks white men wouldn’t be asked to do, white guys creating a show about black woman but not including the only black woman present in the creative conversation, etc. Showrunners are functionally CEOs of the shows they run, and that often goes to their head. And the mix of creative people having the job of running a multimillion business (a TV show) based on their qualification being unrelated to their ability to run a business (that qualification, of course, is the act of having sold a show), leads to an ugly mix.
posted by lewedswiver at 5:06 PM on April 20, 2021 [9 favorites]
The way TV works is that there will be a Writer’s Assistant and a Showrunner’s assistant. The former will always work in the writer’s room, taking detailed notes of every idea that is being pitched and helping build the structure of the season. The Writer’s Assistant is the most prestigious non-writing job, and good showrunners will often welcome the Writer’s Asst to pitch ideas, jokes, etc. You can think of the Writer’s Assistant as the assistant to the writers room as a whole. The Showrunner’s assistant is the hands-on assistant to the showrunner. This is a less prestigious job than Writer Assistant, more prestigious than Writer’s PA. This job can entail more or less whatever the showrunner wants it to entail (reading a book and writing coverage, setting meetings, taking calls), but personal duties like picking up dry cleaning (or, uh, cleaning the boss’s house) are NOT part of their duties.
It is very odd to me that Nancy was apparently promoted to staff writer and then demoted to writer’s assistant... I think it’s more likely she was promoted from Showrunner’s asst to writer’s assistant and then demoted again once production began.
At any rate, the central points of this essay are very clear and all too common — personal disrespect, making black women do menial tasks white men wouldn’t be asked to do, white guys creating a show about black woman but not including the only black woman present in the creative conversation, etc. Showrunners are functionally CEOs of the shows they run, and that often goes to their head. And the mix of creative people having the job of running a multimillion business (a TV show) based on their qualification being unrelated to their ability to run a business (that qualification, of course, is the act of having sold a show), leads to an ugly mix.
posted by lewedswiver at 5:06 PM on April 20, 2021 [9 favorites]
Multi-season drama, "one of the lead characters on this show is a woman of color," and it was the author's "favorite show of the year" when she'd first gotten the call about the job. (Her opinion was solicited re: storyline direction and character development, which also makes me think the show had been on the air for one season.) And: I was told to go through every single script and count every location for every scene—a daunting, unnecessary task that took forever to complete. I was then made to organize the timelines of all the scripts, which jump around like crazy. Of course, I completed both tasks in record time, only to learn Peter had rewritten the majority of the scripts.
If we're speculating: Fox's Sleepy Hollow unraveled fairly fast, as I recall, and Mark Goffman left after Season 2.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:06 PM on April 20, 2021 [17 favorites]
If we're speculating: Fox's Sleepy Hollow unraveled fairly fast, as I recall, and Mark Goffman left after Season 2.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:06 PM on April 20, 2021 [17 favorites]
If this had happened where I live she would have a decent case for constructive dismissal. i've seen it for far less than this.
posted by bonehead at 5:07 PM on April 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 5:07 PM on April 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
Hey, as a Black woman, what was your experience with so and so?
Every diversity sensitivity training I've ever sat through has told me never to do this.
posted by Hatashran at 5:08 PM on April 20, 2021 [6 favorites]
Every diversity sensitivity training I've ever sat through has told me never to do this.
posted by Hatashran at 5:08 PM on April 20, 2021 [6 favorites]
This article was written aimed at an audience familiar with TV writing rooms. If you're not in her audience, it doesn't mean her argument is incomplete. It just means not everyone is talking to you specifically.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:09 PM on April 20, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:09 PM on April 20, 2021 [19 favorites]
Every diversity sensitivity training I've ever sat through has told me never to do this.
Do you work in a job where you are a white man and you have to write words for a Black woman to say? Because if not, your experience does not apply in this instance.
posted by tzikeh at 5:22 PM on April 20, 2021 [24 favorites]
Do you work in a job where you are a white man and you have to write words for a Black woman to say? Because if not, your experience does not apply in this instance.
posted by tzikeh at 5:22 PM on April 20, 2021 [24 favorites]
What is going on in this thread? Is it International Act Like A Dick To Black Women Day?
posted by medusa at 5:55 PM on April 20, 2021 [40 favorites]
posted by medusa at 5:55 PM on April 20, 2021 [40 favorites]
Coming on the heels of the Scott Rudin post from a few weeks ago, Anonymous' story is absolutely believable, and Sleepy Hollow is a great guess based on how poorly the co-lead, Nicole Beharie, was treated. I hope it's not, though, because that was years ago, and I want this writer to make good on her promise: "I’ll take this white man’s world and burn it to the ground."
posted by gladly at 6:28 PM on April 20, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by gladly at 6:28 PM on April 20, 2021 [6 favorites]
It could be almost any show. When starting to speculate, my first thoughts jumped to Arrowverse programs, including the Flash, which has a Black lead actress who sounds like she hasn't been treated well. Who knows what went on at The Rookie, but one of of its Black actresses left after experiencing more than terrible working conditions. It could also very easily be (and probably is) a show that nobody has ever mentioned as being run by a racist, sexist tyrant--as I said, almost any show.
posted by sardonyx at 6:40 PM on April 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 6:40 PM on April 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
I read the article partly seeking clues to identify the show.
It reminded me of recent articles about Nadria Tucker 's dismissal from CW's Superman & Lois, but the details don't really align.
posted by cheshyre at 7:08 PM on April 20, 2021
It reminded me of recent articles about Nadria Tucker 's dismissal from CW's Superman & Lois, but the details don't really align.
posted by cheshyre at 7:08 PM on April 20, 2021
I am 99.9% sure this is a streamer. The article says "the showrunner was officially done writing," and it reads like there wasn't a writer's room, just the showrunner writing in isolation. Network TV has writer's rooms, some streamers just depend on one solo writer, and it sounds like this was the latter.
posted by rednikki at 7:14 PM on April 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by rednikki at 7:14 PM on April 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
Does anyone know of an article that can give a basic background in the language here? E.g., I'm not entirely sure what a showrunner is. Sort of like a producer but for TV shows instead of movies?
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:18 PM on April 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:18 PM on April 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
Let's just burn Hollywood to the ground and, I dunno, I guess I was about to say "start over" but I'm not sure that's the best plan either.
posted by aramaic at 7:35 PM on April 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 7:35 PM on April 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
We could just start by not insisting that some jobs are just meant to be awful and that's that, and move on from there.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 7:39 PM on April 20, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by lesbiassparrow at 7:39 PM on April 20, 2021 [19 favorites]
Sympathy would be very "thoughts and prayers" here, so: there's an inherent conflict in the more glamorous industries between jobs being available at all, and jobs on the lower rungs being shitty. There's more people to want to work in something they've heard of than there are jobs in making that thing, and some people are willing to do anything to get their foot in the door. For structural reasons, the people who can sacrifice the most tend to be white and well-off, so they tend to get these kind of jobs.
You can have regulations that these kind of jobs cannot exist, but that increases the pressure on the Good Jobs and inspires the accusation that this is pulling up the ladder and making it impossible for the next generation of talent to get started. (Nintendo is subject to the same kind of forces, and their Glassdoor is full of complaints about how hard it is to move up.) Or you don't have regulation, and you have assholes in charge who make shitty positions. (Unfortunately "get rid of the assholes in charge" is harder than it seems because an asshole who's gotten in charge has learned how to hide their assholishness from people who notice assholes.)
I think it is a hard problem - certainly I'm all in favour of all jobs being safe and at least relatively fulfilling, but I can see how an army of young people willing to do anything to be able to work on their favourite thing is ripe for abuse.
posted by Merus at 8:07 PM on April 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
You can have regulations that these kind of jobs cannot exist, but that increases the pressure on the Good Jobs and inspires the accusation that this is pulling up the ladder and making it impossible for the next generation of talent to get started. (Nintendo is subject to the same kind of forces, and their Glassdoor is full of complaints about how hard it is to move up.) Or you don't have regulation, and you have assholes in charge who make shitty positions. (Unfortunately "get rid of the assholes in charge" is harder than it seems because an asshole who's gotten in charge has learned how to hide their assholishness from people who notice assholes.)
I think it is a hard problem - certainly I'm all in favour of all jobs being safe and at least relatively fulfilling, but I can see how an army of young people willing to do anything to be able to work on their favourite thing is ripe for abuse.
posted by Merus at 8:07 PM on April 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
I think it is a hard problem - certainly I'm all in favour of all jobs being safe and at least relatively fulfilling, but I can see how an army of young people willing to do anything to be able to work on their favourite thing is rip
Which is almost certainly one of the reasons "Hollywood" is pretty heavily unionized (in general, compared to a lot of other industries.)
posted by soundguy99 at 8:13 PM on April 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
Which is almost certainly one of the reasons "Hollywood" is pretty heavily unionized (in general, compared to a lot of other industries.)
posted by soundguy99 at 8:13 PM on April 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
Over the past few years I've read a number of MetaTalk threads where people make a lot of noise about how terrible Metafilter is about issues like racial discrimination. While I didn't doubt their experience at all, I was surprised every time because I hadn't actually encountered it personally - I assumed just because I don't read every article and thread so I happened to miss the bad stuff. But now, having read TFA and the resulting comments, I've finally seen what those folks were talking about and I really am saddened at some commenters' rationalizations. And I say that as a white male American who's technically an "old", so if I can see it....
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:43 PM on April 20, 2021 [34 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:43 PM on April 20, 2021 [34 favorites]
I mean, I get how "Show business is an abusive industry, film at eleven" is a reaction people could have, but like - that's part of the problem, innit? It's an abusive industry. Abusive industries are bad, generally. They are especially bad if you are anything other than a straight white cis man. Dismissing these stories because people "know what they are getting into" or w/e is just a way to feel smug. It also provides cover for it to continue being an abusive industry because well, everyone knows it is, so if you get into it, you should be prepared to be abused, and there's absolutely no broader social responsibility to stop the abuse, because etc.
Like, come on, I know there's at least two brain cells floating around the website, let's rub them together and come up with some fresh reactions.
posted by a power-tie-wearing she-capitalist at 9:03 PM on April 20, 2021 [22 favorites]
Like, come on, I know there's at least two brain cells floating around the website, let's rub them together and come up with some fresh reactions.
posted by a power-tie-wearing she-capitalist at 9:03 PM on April 20, 2021 [22 favorites]
Which is almost certainly one of the reasons "Hollywood" is pretty heavily unionized (in general, compared to a lot of other industries.)
Yeah, but there’s a pretty bright line between who gets to be in a union and who doesn’t. Writers are unionized; PAs aren’t.
posted by mr_roboto at 9:10 PM on April 20, 2021 [8 favorites]
Yeah, but there’s a pretty bright line between who gets to be in a union and who doesn’t. Writers are unionized; PAs aren’t.
posted by mr_roboto at 9:10 PM on April 20, 2021 [8 favorites]
N-thing that “Hollywood is bad” is not a useful take here. My brother had a job very similar to this, and had a personal story of workplace abuse pretty similar to this one. Now, he’s white (and his boss was a woman) but that didn’t stop him from emailing me this story with a “this is an awful racist Hollywood story” header. Systematic abuse of PAs sucks, but don’t for a second think that race didn’t factor in this woman’s experience; sometimes one just get to experience multiple flavors of awful at once.
posted by q*ben at 9:36 PM on April 20, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by q*ben at 9:36 PM on April 20, 2021 [11 favorites]
Interesting to read non-production people's take on this. As someone who has cleaned up my fair share of other people's lunches on set (and was expected to do it with a smile on my face), it read more to me that she thought this was some kind of big creative dream break when really that's not the job she actually signed up for. The Devil Wears Prada reference is a pretty big red flag for shitty work environment, but "have a pulse and do whatever needs to be done with a good attitude no matter how dumb to keep this ship sailing" is pretty much how any production job I've ever worked with "assistant" in the title has gone. And generally assistant is a seen-but-not-heard type of deal as you are there solely to support your lead or team, creative opinions/decisions are not usually part of the job. I'm not super familiar with TV production specifically so the office drama is a little inside baseball to me, but timelining scripts and cataloguing locations sounds like the kind of extremely-boring-but-extremely-important tasks that would get assigned to an assistant for something in pre-pro. Generally when I was a PA it was mostly go-for'ing, heavy lifting, getting coffee, and cleaning up the messes of people with day rates higher than me so I guess digging through scripts sounds like the kind of unglamorous, tedious "creative" work we actually do on jobs.
But yeah I definitely feel her frustration and rage at dumbasses, it's not uncommon to encounter shitty people and shitty behavior, mostly because everything is extremely high stakes because everything is extremely expensive and you get one shot at it. The other people on set may or may not remember that time you were an asshole but they'll definitely remember if you fuck your job up and throw the production off. Lots of sins can be forgiven if you deliver despite X Y and Z going wrong. And it's always the people at the bottom who will have to take the brunt of whatever dumb stressful thing is happening on set that day. And anything but the most positive "I'm on it right now" kind of attitude would see you replaced with someone who would.
I always go out of my way to be nice to assistants because I was once them and I think that is how the majority of people conduct themselves. But you couldn't pay me enough to go work in Hollywood, union or no.
posted by bradbane at 10:35 PM on April 20, 2021 [21 favorites]
But yeah I definitely feel her frustration and rage at dumbasses, it's not uncommon to encounter shitty people and shitty behavior, mostly because everything is extremely high stakes because everything is extremely expensive and you get one shot at it. The other people on set may or may not remember that time you were an asshole but they'll definitely remember if you fuck your job up and throw the production off. Lots of sins can be forgiven if you deliver despite X Y and Z going wrong. And it's always the people at the bottom who will have to take the brunt of whatever dumb stressful thing is happening on set that day. And anything but the most positive "I'm on it right now" kind of attitude would see you replaced with someone who would.
I always go out of my way to be nice to assistants because I was once them and I think that is how the majority of people conduct themselves. But you couldn't pay me enough to go work in Hollywood, union or no.
posted by bradbane at 10:35 PM on April 20, 2021 [21 favorites]
Joe in Australia, see this page at the Producers Guild of America (Code of Credits: Television Series, Primary Credit: Executive Producer) and this job title glossary at Media Match. [Example: A Show Runner is a television industry term referring to the person who is responsible for the day-to-day operation of a television series — although such persons generally are credited as an executive producer. Unlike films, where directors are typically in creative control of a production, in episodic television the showrunner usually outranks the director.]
From the brief Breaking Down the Multifaceted Role of a Showrunner: The showrunner is the key individual (or individuals) responsible for nearly every aspect of your favorite program [...] Perhaps the best way to illustrate who a showrunner is and what they do is to look at some notable examples:
Ava DuVernay (When They See Us)
Michael Schur (The Good Place, Parks and Recreation)
Phoebe Waller-Bridge (Fleabag)
Mike Judge (King of the Hill, Silicon Valley)
Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa (Glee, Riverdale)
Lee Daniels (Empire)
Matt and Ross Duffer (Stranger Things)
Shonda Rhimes (Grey’s Anatomy)
J.J. Abrams (Alias, Lost)
Kenya Barris (Black-ish)
Peter Berg (Friday Night Lights)
Dan Harmon (Community, Rick and Morty)
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:55 PM on April 20, 2021 [7 favorites]
From the brief Breaking Down the Multifaceted Role of a Showrunner: The showrunner is the key individual (or individuals) responsible for nearly every aspect of your favorite program [...] Perhaps the best way to illustrate who a showrunner is and what they do is to look at some notable examples:
Ava DuVernay (When They See Us)
Michael Schur (The Good Place, Parks and Recreation)
Phoebe Waller-Bridge (Fleabag)
Mike Judge (King of the Hill, Silicon Valley)
Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa (Glee, Riverdale)
Lee Daniels (Empire)
Matt and Ross Duffer (Stranger Things)
Shonda Rhimes (Grey’s Anatomy)
J.J. Abrams (Alias, Lost)
Kenya Barris (Black-ish)
Peter Berg (Friday Night Lights)
Dan Harmon (Community, Rick and Morty)
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:55 PM on April 20, 2021 [7 favorites]
FTA: "Once, the showrunner’s wife instructed me to clean up the mess Kyle left after he had inhaled two salads for lunch. There I was, the only person of color in the house, cleaning up chopped pieces of lettuce and dressing on my hands and knees."
I guarantee-damn-tee that this is not in the job description of "showrunner's assistant", that it's not in the job description of anybody but "janitorial and maintenance staff", and that's all I need to know about how fucking horribly she was treated.
This is not the job of maintenance/janitorial staff either. They are not personal vacuums for selfish assholes. The job of maintenance/janitorial is to care for and clean a facility based on the normal wear and tear of daily human use. I would expect a human to clean up after themselves if they dropped salad on the floor while eating, with the only exception being babies who seem to own the job of throwing food on the floor.
posted by archimago at 4:14 AM on April 21, 2021 [21 favorites]
I agree with everything in the article except this:
“But Peter had no awareness of how he was treating me.”
Yes, he fucking did.
posted by Merricat Blackwood at 4:34 AM on April 21, 2021 [11 favorites]
“But Peter had no awareness of how he was treating me.”
Yes, he fucking did.
posted by Merricat Blackwood at 4:34 AM on April 21, 2021 [11 favorites]
Anyone else reading that get the strong impression that “Nancy” decided she didn’t need competition from this woman, and proceeded to sabotage her position? Not saying the Old Boy Network didn’t cause problems, but there is generally plenty of room for backstabbing in the lower ranks to curry favor with the boss. (Isn’t this what the boss wants? Watching his peons wrestle for position while he looks on benevolently and anoints the winner to be his new toady?)
posted by caution live frogs at 6:08 AM on April 21, 2021
posted by caution live frogs at 6:08 AM on April 21, 2021
It's a little sad you can't just accept her point of view
Oh come on. Finding this article quite incomprehensible is not the same as denying the atrocious racism and misogyny this woman was subjected to! I wish I had the faintest idea what was happening in the first half of the article, but I don't. Like, what exactly was the dream job she thought she was getting? how did she land the role? was she never in contact with HR when she was hired? what was communicated to her when she was hired? what was in her contract ito termination/at-will employment, etc.? was there ever an official job description? who is this Nancy? why did she think she was supposed to be the "new Nancy" (and what does that even mean)? what is the actual distance between her official job title/job description and the actual content of her job as she described, given that she was hired for minimum wage, which I, as a total outsider to Hollywood, interpret as an indicator that the job is more about cleaning up spilled salad than writing the show?
If anyone who understood more of it can explain it a bit more, or point to other explanations online, I'd be truly grateful.
posted by MiraK at 6:35 AM on April 21, 2021 [18 favorites]
Oh come on. Finding this article quite incomprehensible is not the same as denying the atrocious racism and misogyny this woman was subjected to! I wish I had the faintest idea what was happening in the first half of the article, but I don't. Like, what exactly was the dream job she thought she was getting? how did she land the role? was she never in contact with HR when she was hired? what was communicated to her when she was hired? what was in her contract ito termination/at-will employment, etc.? was there ever an official job description? who is this Nancy? why did she think she was supposed to be the "new Nancy" (and what does that even mean)? what is the actual distance between her official job title/job description and the actual content of her job as she described, given that she was hired for minimum wage, which I, as a total outsider to Hollywood, interpret as an indicator that the job is more about cleaning up spilled salad than writing the show?
If anyone who understood more of it can explain it a bit more, or point to other explanations online, I'd be truly grateful.
posted by MiraK at 6:35 AM on April 21, 2021 [18 favorites]
What is the white male genius a genius at?
Making masterpieces of media? No, there are too many WMGs and too few masterpieces.
Making lots of money? Maybe, but there are going to be eyeballs on a show regardless of quality. I'm not convinced that the WMG takes their shows above the average return all that often.
posted by Slackermagee at 7:21 AM on April 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
Making masterpieces of media? No, there are too many WMGs and too few masterpieces.
Making lots of money? Maybe, but there are going to be eyeballs on a show regardless of quality. I'm not convinced that the WMG takes their shows above the average return all that often.
posted by Slackermagee at 7:21 AM on April 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
Oh come on. Finding this article quite incomprehensible is not the same as denying the atrocious racism and misogyny this woman was subjected to!
Of course it is not the same. But it serves everyone in any intersection of privilege and good fortune when witnessing a victim story to keep a very sharp eye on the deep structures that contribute to focusing on technical minutia. Because that technical minutia is, yes, often interesting in its own right (proverbial sausage-making tends to be unpleasant sure, but there's a lot of neat details in the evolution of the processes!) but focus on it is frequently weaponized as a smokescreen to minimize or outright dismiss the actual victimization.
Now, the sausage-making involved in show-business productions would make a great basis for a post or posts! (Seriously great. Someone knowledgeable could curate a hell of a post on this is how "showrunning" has evolved before and after "showrunner" became part of the popular lexicon; here's the unsung labor of every production, etc. I'd appreciate that kind of labor too!)
But this ain't that, so there's really not much "oh come on" in pushback happening in response to treating this as that. No one here may be intentionally weaponizing anything, but it's still good practice to avoid zardozing guns around.
posted by Drastic at 7:56 AM on April 21, 2021 [7 favorites]
Of course it is not the same. But it serves everyone in any intersection of privilege and good fortune when witnessing a victim story to keep a very sharp eye on the deep structures that contribute to focusing on technical minutia. Because that technical minutia is, yes, often interesting in its own right (proverbial sausage-making tends to be unpleasant sure, but there's a lot of neat details in the evolution of the processes!) but focus on it is frequently weaponized as a smokescreen to minimize or outright dismiss the actual victimization.
Now, the sausage-making involved in show-business productions would make a great basis for a post or posts! (Seriously great. Someone knowledgeable could curate a hell of a post on this is how "showrunning" has evolved before and after "showrunner" became part of the popular lexicon; here's the unsung labor of every production, etc. I'd appreciate that kind of labor too!)
But this ain't that, so there's really not much "oh come on" in pushback happening in response to treating this as that. No one here may be intentionally weaponizing anything, but it's still good practice to avoid zardozing guns around.
posted by Drastic at 7:56 AM on April 21, 2021 [7 favorites]
My issue is that a) she suffered abuse as a production assistant, which is unacceptable, and b) she also showed an unawareness of how production works. Her account of things like the salad incident shows how abusive Hollywood is to the lower rung positions, especially when minorities and women hold those positions, and because PA is how you get your foot in the door, this in turn impacts the number of minorities and women at higher levels of the industry. And yes, our cultural coddling of the 'genius' pof white men lays a role in all of this. She got shat on, and that is wrong.
At the same time, she also was handed important (if tedious) preproduction tasks such as listing out all the locations every scene takes place in (this impacts things from creating budgets to setting up the actual shooting schedule) and defining the chronological timeline for the scripts (necessary to maintain continuity, as scenes filmed weeks or months apart may be chronologically only minutes apart, and teams need to be aware of this to avoid continuity errors,) and called them makework. That makes me ask how well she understood the industry she was trying to break into.
The thing is, both parts can coexist! It's quite possible for the author to both be subjected to abuse that nobody should have to be subjected to, and also not be a good fit for the job for reasons unrelated to that abuse.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:03 AM on April 21, 2021 [16 favorites]
At the same time, she also was handed important (if tedious) preproduction tasks such as listing out all the locations every scene takes place in (this impacts things from creating budgets to setting up the actual shooting schedule) and defining the chronological timeline for the scripts (necessary to maintain continuity, as scenes filmed weeks or months apart may be chronologically only minutes apart, and teams need to be aware of this to avoid continuity errors,) and called them makework. That makes me ask how well she understood the industry she was trying to break into.
The thing is, both parts can coexist! It's quite possible for the author to both be subjected to abuse that nobody should have to be subjected to, and also not be a good fit for the job for reasons unrelated to that abuse.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:03 AM on April 21, 2021 [16 favorites]
Because that technical minutia is, yes, often interesting in its own right ... but focus on it is frequently weaponized as a smokescreen to minimize or outright dismiss the actual victimization.
The point of writing the article IS to describe technical "minutiae" i.e. the particulars of this situation. This writer might as well have posted a tweet saying, verbatim, "Hollywood is racist and misogynistic," and those of us unfamiliar with industry lingo would have been almost as up to speed as we are now. IDK, I disliked the implication that being unable to understand the article constituted an unwillingness to acknowledge the reality of racism and misogyny in Hollywood, is all.
posted by MiraK at 8:05 AM on April 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
The point of writing the article IS to describe technical "minutiae" i.e. the particulars of this situation. This writer might as well have posted a tweet saying, verbatim, "Hollywood is racist and misogynistic," and those of us unfamiliar with industry lingo would have been almost as up to speed as we are now. IDK, I disliked the implication that being unable to understand the article constituted an unwillingness to acknowledge the reality of racism and misogyny in Hollywood, is all.
posted by MiraK at 8:05 AM on April 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
Like, what exactly was the dream job she thought she was getting? how did she land the role? was she never in contact with HR when she was hired? what was communicated to her when she was hired? what was in her contract ito termination/at-will employment, etc.? was there ever an official job description? who is this Nancy? why did she think she was supposed to be the "new Nancy" (and what does that even mean)? what is the actual distance between her official job title/job description and the actual content of her job as she described, given that she was hired for minimum wage, which I, as a total outsider to Hollywood, interpret as an indicator that the job is more about cleaning up spilled salad than writing the show?
These are all interesting questions about how showbiz works, but I don't see how most of this is relevant to how she was treated. Why does it matter how she got the job? What would communicating with HR when she was hired have done to change things? Would it matter that her contract was at-will, given that at-will employment provides cover for all kinds of abusive and discriminatory terminations? Is making a Black woman pick up spilled salad ok if the job is minimum wage? Is freezing out the only Black person on the writing staff acceptable if the distance from the job description to how she was treated is small?
posted by Mavri at 8:16 AM on April 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
These are all interesting questions about how showbiz works, but I don't see how most of this is relevant to how she was treated. Why does it matter how she got the job? What would communicating with HR when she was hired have done to change things? Would it matter that her contract was at-will, given that at-will employment provides cover for all kinds of abusive and discriminatory terminations? Is making a Black woman pick up spilled salad ok if the job is minimum wage? Is freezing out the only Black person on the writing staff acceptable if the distance from the job description to how she was treated is small?
posted by Mavri at 8:16 AM on April 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
A lot of the arguments in this thread boil down to 'she should have known better,' and I don't feel like that is a good look myself.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 8:26 AM on April 21, 2021 [23 favorites]
posted by lesbiassparrow at 8:26 AM on April 21, 2021 [23 favorites]
I don't see how most of this is relevant to how she was treated.
Exactly. I am totally gobsmacked at the comments here that imply that the treatment she received is acceptable. I am even more blown away by people saying that she must be ignorant of the industry. When someone suffers mistreatment, it's not a good look to say "oh well how stupid of her she's so dumb."
This is not the job of maintenance/janitorial staff either. They are not personal vacuums for selfish assholes.
And yes to this a million times. I'm over here honestly fuming at the fact that people seem to think it's someone's job to clean up the shit they leave all over the floor.
Stop throwing your fucking salad etc on the floor. Pick up after your own selves.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 8:33 AM on April 21, 2021 [13 favorites]
Exactly. I am totally gobsmacked at the comments here that imply that the treatment she received is acceptable. I am even more blown away by people saying that she must be ignorant of the industry. When someone suffers mistreatment, it's not a good look to say "oh well how stupid of her she's so dumb."
This is not the job of maintenance/janitorial staff either. They are not personal vacuums for selfish assholes.
And yes to this a million times. I'm over here honestly fuming at the fact that people seem to think it's someone's job to clean up the shit they leave all over the floor.
Stop throwing your fucking salad etc on the floor. Pick up after your own selves.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 8:33 AM on April 21, 2021 [13 favorites]
There are many, many comments that attest to how this is just the way the industry works: lots of shitty people in positions of authority, with ridiculous expectations of those 'beneath' them not to mention rampant abusiveness.
If it's so common, then surely we need more articles like the one posted? How the hell will things change otherwise? Some of the semi-insider comments here are interesting and all, but on the tail of the Chauvin ruling it all seems a bit.. besides the point. There are long-standing, shitty situations that seem impossible to change, but change does happen. I will never be part of this industry, but as one more casual armchair commenter I can only say I'd hope things get better for people like the author. And at least the author is doing more than nothing--or worse, accepting that "that's the way it works"--to effect change.
posted by elkevelvet at 8:36 AM on April 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
If it's so common, then surely we need more articles like the one posted? How the hell will things change otherwise? Some of the semi-insider comments here are interesting and all, but on the tail of the Chauvin ruling it all seems a bit.. besides the point. There are long-standing, shitty situations that seem impossible to change, but change does happen. I will never be part of this industry, but as one more casual armchair commenter I can only say I'd hope things get better for people like the author. And at least the author is doing more than nothing--or worse, accepting that "that's the way it works"--to effect change.
posted by elkevelvet at 8:36 AM on April 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
Is freezing out the only Black person on the writing staff acceptable if the distance from the job description to how she was treated is small?
Here's the thing - she wasn't part of the writing staff, because PAs - even ones assigned to the showrunner - are not part of the writers' room. And this is where having some understanding of how production works is important, because it helps to evaluate the claims made.
A lot of the arguments in this thread boil down to 'she should have known better,' and I don't feel like that is a good look myself.
With regards to the abuse, no, "she should have known better" is not acceptable. The fact that PAs are treated as chew toys in Hollywood is utterly unacceptable. But on the same token, there is also a sense that she didn't really understand the position she took. And again, both parts can be true - she can be subject to unacceptable abuse and also not have understood her role.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:41 AM on April 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
Here's the thing - she wasn't part of the writing staff, because PAs - even ones assigned to the showrunner - are not part of the writers' room. And this is where having some understanding of how production works is important, because it helps to evaluate the claims made.
A lot of the arguments in this thread boil down to 'she should have known better,' and I don't feel like that is a good look myself.
With regards to the abuse, no, "she should have known better" is not acceptable. The fact that PAs are treated as chew toys in Hollywood is utterly unacceptable. But on the same token, there is also a sense that she didn't really understand the position she took. And again, both parts can be true - she can be subject to unacceptable abuse and also not have understood her role.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:41 AM on April 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
Here's the thing - she wasn't part of the writing staff, because PAs - even ones assigned to the showrunner - are not part of the writers' room.
The entire first two paragraphs are about how she was "in the room" and then she wasn't. Rules lawyering about whether she belonged there or shouldn't have been there in the first place doesn't change what happened. She was in, and then she was frozen out. And that was part of a pattern of behavior.
posted by Mavri at 8:47 AM on April 21, 2021 [11 favorites]
The entire first two paragraphs are about how she was "in the room" and then she wasn't. Rules lawyering about whether she belonged there or shouldn't have been there in the first place doesn't change what happened. She was in, and then she was frozen out. And that was part of a pattern of behavior.
posted by Mavri at 8:47 AM on April 21, 2021 [11 favorites]
As a mediocre middle-aged white man who is not wealthy, I feel like I missed my chance somewhere along the line.
posted by LarryC at 9:21 AM on April 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by LarryC at 9:21 AM on April 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
I mean, I guess I'd say that I would prefer that my entertainment not be produced by someone who has no causative disabilities but cannot eat a salad at a business lunch without spilling all over the rug. I've been present at a number of business functions as a secretary and was not always treated with courtesy (and did in fact have to do some of the clean-up) but none of the attendees assumed that they could eat like wild animals and I'd go down on my hands and knees to pick up.
I've had a series of pink collar jobs all my life. Cleaning up after other capable adults tends to feel degrading. Good bosses minimize this by, eg, throwing their own trash in the trash, eating neatly using professional manners, attending to minor spills themselves rather than leaving a spattered table, etc.
My bets are that if she had been treated with courtesy and fairness she wouldn't have written this article even if the job had proved disappointing and that the wealthy white child of a Hollywood luminary who got some kind of intro job would not have been treated this way.
posted by Frowner at 10:14 AM on April 21, 2021 [16 favorites]
I've had a series of pink collar jobs all my life. Cleaning up after other capable adults tends to feel degrading. Good bosses minimize this by, eg, throwing their own trash in the trash, eating neatly using professional manners, attending to minor spills themselves rather than leaving a spattered table, etc.
My bets are that if she had been treated with courtesy and fairness she wouldn't have written this article even if the job had proved disappointing and that the wealthy white child of a Hollywood luminary who got some kind of intro job would not have been treated this way.
posted by Frowner at 10:14 AM on April 21, 2021 [16 favorites]
I don't see how most of this is relevant to how she was treated.
As someone in the middle of employee evaluations some of it is relevant to the question about meaningful work.
Assignment of meaningful work and denial of it is a major sign of abuse by bosses. Withholding of work in an attempt to get people to quit is apparently illegal behaviour, even in California. It's pretty clear from her description that this was happening as their relationship deteriorated, but if she was mistakenly thinking that the work she was given was just make-work to get rid of her, when in fact it was actual meaningful work in the view of her boss, then that's a problem too.
There's multiple dysfunctions here. Her bosses were abusive pricks, and vindictive ones. They probably were skirting the edge of employment law, assuming this is California, assuming she wouldn't rock the boat on pain of being blackballed from every working again (more coersion). But they also failed to communicate and train her properly in understanding the value her work did have, even it it didn't look that way at first glance. This stated the cascade of shit she documents.
They likely significantly failed her in not communicating the importance of the work she may have mistakenly been given the impression that was meaningless either: the indexing of locations, the scanning of a novel, that sort of thing. While she may have been quick to jump to conclusions, I would also put that mostly at the feet of her bosses for failing her again in communicating why this work was important and contextualizing it for her. "Hey could you parse out the locations in this weeks script? We need it for costing, so keep an eye on that would you?" That's all you need to do.
In short, these people failed her in multiple ways. Sure she might have had a few wrong impressions, but those could have been quickly fixed with better communications. And indeed that's another way they let her down, in my professional opinion as a team lead for more than a decade.
posted by bonehead at 10:20 AM on April 21, 2021 [20 favorites]
As someone in the middle of employee evaluations some of it is relevant to the question about meaningful work.
Assignment of meaningful work and denial of it is a major sign of abuse by bosses. Withholding of work in an attempt to get people to quit is apparently illegal behaviour, even in California. It's pretty clear from her description that this was happening as their relationship deteriorated, but if she was mistakenly thinking that the work she was given was just make-work to get rid of her, when in fact it was actual meaningful work in the view of her boss, then that's a problem too.
There's multiple dysfunctions here. Her bosses were abusive pricks, and vindictive ones. They probably were skirting the edge of employment law, assuming this is California, assuming she wouldn't rock the boat on pain of being blackballed from every working again (more coersion). But they also failed to communicate and train her properly in understanding the value her work did have, even it it didn't look that way at first glance. This stated the cascade of shit she documents.
They likely significantly failed her in not communicating the importance of the work she may have mistakenly been given the impression that was meaningless either: the indexing of locations, the scanning of a novel, that sort of thing. While she may have been quick to jump to conclusions, I would also put that mostly at the feet of her bosses for failing her again in communicating why this work was important and contextualizing it for her. "Hey could you parse out the locations in this weeks script? We need it for costing, so keep an eye on that would you?" That's all you need to do.
In short, these people failed her in multiple ways. Sure she might have had a few wrong impressions, but those could have been quickly fixed with better communications. And indeed that's another way they let her down, in my professional opinion as a team lead for more than a decade.
posted by bonehead at 10:20 AM on April 21, 2021 [20 favorites]
My bets are that if she had been treated with courtesy and fairness she wouldn't have written this article even if the job had proved disappointing and that the wealthy white child of a Hollywood luminary who got some kind of intro job would not have been treated this way.
Yeah, I've a similar distribution of quatloo chips here. Further stack on the spaces involving any speculation that "Nancy" was very much the last clause, thus old-Nancy position turning out to be elevated above the position even when in the position. Basically, wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a situation where she was quickly being shuttled along the "started from the bottom" future-bio gloss trajectory that good family connections get white folks.
posted by Drastic at 10:26 AM on April 21, 2021
Yeah, I've a similar distribution of quatloo chips here. Further stack on the spaces involving any speculation that "Nancy" was very much the last clause, thus old-Nancy position turning out to be elevated above the position even when in the position. Basically, wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a situation where she was quickly being shuttled along the "started from the bottom" future-bio gloss trajectory that good family connections get white folks.
posted by Drastic at 10:26 AM on April 21, 2021
She was in, and then she was frozen out. And that was part of a pattern of behavior.
But that's the point: as other posters who have worked in the industry (or at least claim to) have noted, maybe she misunderstood what her position actually entailed, and that being "in the room" in her role is not actually being part of the writing process. NoxAeternum is right, there may be two things being conflated here: genuine abusive mistreatment, and a misunderstanding leading to a belief that the job was greater than it was and therefore frustration that she was not being given the work and ability to participate that she mistakenly believed was part of it.
posted by star gentle uterus at 10:28 AM on April 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
But that's the point: as other posters who have worked in the industry (or at least claim to) have noted, maybe she misunderstood what her position actually entailed, and that being "in the room" in her role is not actually being part of the writing process. NoxAeternum is right, there may be two things being conflated here: genuine abusive mistreatment, and a misunderstanding leading to a belief that the job was greater than it was and therefore frustration that she was not being given the work and ability to participate that she mistakenly believed was part of it.
posted by star gentle uterus at 10:28 AM on April 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
>The entire first two paragraphs are about how she was "in the room" and then she wasn't.
*Are* they about that? I wish the article was written/edited in such a way that I could have figured this out. Though of course there was the excellent point made upthread that the intended audience is not me, it's people who're familiar with show business (and therefore its lingo). It's likely I wasn't meant to understand it.
> Multi-season drama, "one of the lead characters on this show is a woman of color," and it was the author's "favorite show of the year" when she'd first gotten the call about the job.
I'm wondering if this was Person Of Interest... ugh, I would hate to "lose" this show to feeling disgusted with the showrunners. Evidence for: Jonathan Nolan was the showrunner (iird JJ abrams was a secondary showrunner also). Evidence against: there were two women, not one, among the main writers.
> We know it’s a multi-season network drama. And it’s run by a white man. And he’s a privileged asshole. What do you mean, that doesn’t narrow it down?
QFT
posted by MiraK at 10:53 AM on April 21, 2021
*Are* they about that? I wish the article was written/edited in such a way that I could have figured this out. Though of course there was the excellent point made upthread that the intended audience is not me, it's people who're familiar with show business (and therefore its lingo). It's likely I wasn't meant to understand it.
> Multi-season drama, "one of the lead characters on this show is a woman of color," and it was the author's "favorite show of the year" when she'd first gotten the call about the job.
I'm wondering if this was Person Of Interest... ugh, I would hate to "lose" this show to feeling disgusted with the showrunners. Evidence for: Jonathan Nolan was the showrunner (iird JJ abrams was a secondary showrunner also). Evidence against: there were two women, not one, among the main writers.
> We know it’s a multi-season network drama. And it’s run by a white man. And he’s a privileged asshole. What do you mean, that doesn’t narrow it down?
QFT
posted by MiraK at 10:53 AM on April 21, 2021
I. For more background on the industry and the events as related in the essay, with lots of quotes from industry professionals on their own career progression:
Staffing Season: How Staffed Television Writers Land and Keep Their Jobs
Inside the Writer's Room: So what do writers’ rooms look like, and how are their hierarchies laid out? Writers' PAs, Writers' Assistants, Script Coordinators, and overlap
Hollywood assistants have always been underpaid, but this is different, at screenwriter John August's blog; "Decision-makers — people in their 40s and 50s — imagine these jobs as being filled by their younger selves. What are they complaining about? they ask. I was an underpaid assistant, too! These decision-makers are making two fundamental mistakes. First, they’re assuming that assistants are pretty much exactly like, well, me in 1994: white Americans just out of college with no kids and little debt who often have parents that can help out with expenses.
Second, these decision-makers are ignoring how much has changed since they were assistants two decades ago. A non-exhaustive list:
Los Angeles has gotten much more expensive.
Assistants stay assistants longer than they used to.
Owning a car is still essential, and costs more.
Medical insurance is pricier.
Short seasons make it harder to advance.
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:58 AM on April 21, 2021 [13 favorites]
Staffing Season: How Staffed Television Writers Land and Keep Their Jobs
Inside the Writer's Room: So what do writers’ rooms look like, and how are their hierarchies laid out? Writers' PAs, Writers' Assistants, Script Coordinators, and overlap
Hollywood assistants have always been underpaid, but this is different, at screenwriter John August's blog; "Decision-makers — people in their 40s and 50s — imagine these jobs as being filled by their younger selves. What are they complaining about? they ask. I was an underpaid assistant, too! These decision-makers are making two fundamental mistakes. First, they’re assuming that assistants are pretty much exactly like, well, me in 1994: white Americans just out of college with no kids and little debt who often have parents that can help out with expenses.
Second, these decision-makers are ignoring how much has changed since they were assistants two decades ago. A non-exhaustive list:
Los Angeles has gotten much more expensive.
Assistants stay assistants longer than they used to.
Owning a car is still essential, and costs more.
Medical insurance is pricier.
Short seasons make it harder to advance.
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:58 AM on April 21, 2021 [13 favorites]
II. FWIW, I read the piece as, the author was hired as a Writer's Assistant (and assisting the main writer, the showrunner, at that: "got a call about assisting the showrunner") after Nancy was promoted to staff writer. She was treated as a Writer's Assistant initially: On my first day, I was in awe. I sat around with the showrunner Peter* and producer Kyle*, discussing potential storylines for characters I knew and loved so much. My predecessor, Nancy*, now promoted to staff writer, frantically took notes on everything discussed. They listened to my pitches and answered my questions. They said I made fair points and had a good eye.
When Nancy returns from vacation, the author was essentially demoted to Production Assistant, Office, and still attached to the showrunner. She was still expected to be in the writer's room most of the time, just doing a lower-level job with greatly reduced opportunities for advancement. (Maybe Nancy's promotion didn't really work out?) There isn't creative input on scripts/show development, any writing tasks, or the possibility of getting to work on your own script for the show, in a PA job description.
Right before filming began, the author was let go; she wasn't wanted as a PA on set, having worked on the set of a single film. She points out that employment history was known and not a detractor in hiring her for the original [writing-related] job, and that if she'd known she was really being hired as an office PA only, as a limited-time gig, she would've expected a fixed end date and been able to make plans.
When "HR" agrees to a larger compensation package, it's an acknowledgement of the bait-and-switch and mistreatment.
How Staffed Television Writers Land and Keep Their Jobs, linked above, excerpts COMMUNITY’s staff writer Tim Saccardo's 2017 Reddit AMA (Ask Me Anything): I was hired as a writers assistant in season 2… It’s a rough job but an amazing opportunity to learn from the best and become intimately familiar with a show. You’re also part of the staff in a way and get to contribute to scripts when the situation calls for it.
After a while, I was given a script of my own to write and eventually was promoted to the writing staff. So, in a way, my writers assistant job ended up being like an extended interview/trial where the writers and producers got to see that I was good at writing the show and also wasn’t a dick that would be terrible to be in a room with all day (and sometimes all night…)”
The same is true for Amy Berg, co-executive producer of EUREKA. In an interview with i09, she said she worked as an assistant to Kevin Kopelow and Heath Seifert (the writing team behind KENAN & KELL and ALL THAT) “…for a couple months before they saw fit to promote me to writer.”
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:58 AM on April 21, 2021 [15 favorites]
When Nancy returns from vacation, the author was essentially demoted to Production Assistant, Office, and still attached to the showrunner. She was still expected to be in the writer's room most of the time, just doing a lower-level job with greatly reduced opportunities for advancement. (Maybe Nancy's promotion didn't really work out?) There isn't creative input on scripts/show development, any writing tasks, or the possibility of getting to work on your own script for the show, in a PA job description.
Right before filming began, the author was let go; she wasn't wanted as a PA on set, having worked on the set of a single film. She points out that employment history was known and not a detractor in hiring her for the original [writing-related] job, and that if she'd known she was really being hired as an office PA only, as a limited-time gig, she would've expected a fixed end date and been able to make plans.
When "HR" agrees to a larger compensation package, it's an acknowledgement of the bait-and-switch and mistreatment.
How Staffed Television Writers Land and Keep Their Jobs, linked above, excerpts COMMUNITY’s staff writer Tim Saccardo's 2017 Reddit AMA (Ask Me Anything): I was hired as a writers assistant in season 2… It’s a rough job but an amazing opportunity to learn from the best and become intimately familiar with a show. You’re also part of the staff in a way and get to contribute to scripts when the situation calls for it.
After a while, I was given a script of my own to write and eventually was promoted to the writing staff. So, in a way, my writers assistant job ended up being like an extended interview/trial where the writers and producers got to see that I was good at writing the show and also wasn’t a dick that would be terrible to be in a room with all day (and sometimes all night…)”
The same is true for Amy Berg, co-executive producer of EUREKA. In an interview with i09, she said she worked as an assistant to Kevin Kopelow and Heath Seifert (the writing team behind KENAN & KELL and ALL THAT) “…for a couple months before they saw fit to promote me to writer.”
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:58 AM on April 21, 2021 [15 favorites]
When I was in collage, I was a production intern (not an assistant) on an unnamed film connected to an unnamed film producer/convicted sex criminal. The film was being shot on location. I was part of the location office staff, so I wasn't even on set. I thought I might want to go into film, so I was pretty excited, though I'd been warned in advance that my job would not be glamorous. I was not prepared, forever, for the expectation that a portion of my day that would be spent on my hands in knees in the bushes outside the production office, rain or shine, picking up the cigarette butts left there by my superiors (which was everybody). I didn't quit until I overheard the production manager (a woman) call me a mouthbreathing fat cow within earshot of me while I tried to remove the invidvual pieces of cheese from the pasta she'd have me order. That was when I decided I never wanted to work in the film business. I've never regretted that choice.
posted by thivaia at 11:38 AM on April 21, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by thivaia at 11:38 AM on April 21, 2021 [18 favorites]
Apparently women of color have even faced trouble at Abigail Disney’s production company, which was founded specifically to give equal voice to projects by women and POC. (At least Disney is acknowledging the problem, which I guess is a step in the right direction.)
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:12 PM on April 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:12 PM on April 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
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I don't disagree with the premise, I just have no knowledge of the insider workings of a Hollywood tv production to even judge how outlandishly she was treated.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:33 PM on April 20, 2021 [12 favorites]