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May 3, 2021 6:45 PM   Subscribe

Marvel Studios Celebrates The Movies.

Marvel blasts off with a megatrailer for Phase 4 of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock (107 comments total) 13 users marked this as a favorite
 
FANTASTIC FOUR
posted by nushustu at 6:53 PM on May 3 [8 favorites]


"Gavage | Definition of Gavage by Merriam-Webster" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gavage
posted by GuyZero at 6:55 PM on May 3 [9 favorites]


"Wakanda Forever" seems a good title - not sure how they will handle the loss of Chadwick Boseman, but I think Coogler's the man to do it. The title "The Marvels" makes me think they're going to have Ms Marvel start on the small screen and then shift to a feature film. I certainly hope we get more Monica Rambeau, though.

nushustu: Is that an obscure "Fantastic Four" teaser or just "Marvel Phase 4"? I took it as the latter since there's just a "Marvel Studios" logo over it and no title or date.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:08 PM on May 3


> "Wakanda Forever" seems a good title - not sure how they will handle the loss of Chadwick Boseman, but I think Coogler's the man to do it.

Shuri, I expect.
posted by metabaroque at 7:12 PM on May 3 [8 favorites]


IT BETTER BE SHURI.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:17 PM on May 3 [25 favorites]


The first Disney film I remember seeing is Bambi and even as young as I was I remember crying and then being mad they made me cry over an animated doe.

Anyways, this trailer with its hope and emphasis on human storytelling and connectedness did the same damn thing. I will, fate willing, watch them all and perhaps there will even one day be movie theatres open in my plague ridden hellhole.

Ditto Shuri.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:20 PM on May 3 [6 favorites]


rmd1023: "nushustu: Is that an obscure "Fantastic Four" teaser or just "Marvel Phase 4"?"

Not really obscure, IMO, just the actual FF logo.
posted by signal at 7:25 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]


I'm slightly p-ed off that there are no mutants in this (except the Pretender, but you know, it's complicated, plus we don't say her name). I am still hoping that they drop them into one of the movies the way they did Spider-Man, OR that they give Hickman a few billion dollars to start his own DoX-CU.
posted by signal at 7:29 PM on May 3 [4 favorites]


Oh, also, Shuri.
posted by signal at 7:30 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]


There is no way Disney will not do X-men movies. The question is just when/how
posted by emjaybee at 7:42 PM on May 3


rmd1023, they announced Fantastic Four in December. Overall, I don't care that MCU is mostly punching and explosions, I'm hyped. I miss going to the movies with people; that audience reaction for Avengers Endgame was painful to watch given what happened right after. Now it looks like Disney is making up for lost time. That's four movies in like half a year.

I too want to see some mutants; I expect they'll get through all of this content and then maybe get some X-Men movies in 2023/2024.
posted by nushustu at 7:43 PM on May 3 [3 favorites]


Also, Shuri all the time forever.

You know what they haven't announced? Any more Avengers movies. Are we just not going to do giant team-ups any more?
posted by nushustu at 7:44 PM on May 3


The worry I have with both the FF and XMen is that you're going to have to waste one movie as an origin story/setup before you can go on to more interesting things. Good for Marvel as that means more movies to watch but I'm so bored of origin stories.

Also where were they up to now? You could explain away the FFs absence to date by saying they were off-world or exploring the multiverse, but the XMen? I'd love a movie to start with Xavier in everyone's heads saying that the world had changed while they were asleep and there's now a mutant nation on Krakoa but the lack of mutants to this point is harder to explain away. Why weren't any mutants involved in Infinity War or Endgame when surely half of them were wiped out by Thanos too? And are we starting at the very beginning with barely any mutants or are there now millions of them, that have never been mentioned before, or are we post decimation and the reason no one's talked about mutants is because they all mysteriously disappeared? You almost would need an entire phase where it's just XMen, a Year of X or something.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 7:57 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]


You know what they haven't announced? Any more Avengers movies. Are we just not going to do giant team-ups any more?

I suspect these disparate films and characters will all wind up in some kind of ensemble twofer. Captain America and Iron Man are gone-gone so it will have to be something else. New Avengers? Avengers West Coast? I don't know any other team-ups apart from the seven billion X-somethings.

I'll obviously watch them all but the only thing I'm really interested in is Thor. Thing is, even the Marvel stuff I wasn't interested in up until now was all still good movies, any one of which I would watch again in a pinch.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:04 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]


Hulk, Strange, Namor, Nighthawk, Hellcat, Valkyrie. Defenders movie please.
posted by vrakatar at 8:08 PM on May 3 [9 favorites]


Shuri, the character, is awesome. Letitia Wright, the actress, is a disappointing anti-vax person.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:08 PM on May 3 [19 favorites]


Word is, The Marvels will feature Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, and Monica Rambeau, which is pretty cool.

Universal might still kinda own the rights to Namor. Arguments both ways. It's one for the lawyers.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:10 PM on May 3 [3 favorites]


You know what they haven't announced? Any more Avengers movies. Are we just not going to do giant team-ups any more?

Possibly not under such a title. Civil War sure had a lot of people in it.

Word is, The Marvels will feature Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, and Monica Rambeau, which is pretty cool.

If I’m not mistaken, the S in the Marvels logo is the one off the Spectrum costume.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:16 PM on May 3 [2 favorites]


My guess is that Dr. Strange’s multiverse stuff and the multi-timeline stuff from Endgame & the Loki D+ series is setting up how they bring mutants in.

They could do Secret Wars and have the mutants come in on one of the planet chunks that make up battleworld, or do an adaptation of that time Galactus tried to eat the Ultimate universe.

If Tom Holland’s contract is up around that time, maybe that’s when we get Miles and/or Venom in the MCU.
posted by FallibleHuman at 8:21 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]


It would be pretty easy to posit that the Snap/Blip had unforseen mutating effects on people and just start there (also affecting Monica Rambeau even). You couldn't do the Magneto-as-Holocaust-Survivor story but then, there have been tons of ethnic cleansing and similar violence since that time that would serve the same purpose.
posted by emjaybee at 8:40 PM on May 3


My partner, with tears in his eyes after watching this 3x in a row: “this is the only good thing about capitalism.”
posted by sleepingwithcats at 8:45 PM on May 3 [31 favorites]


We were crying here also.
posted by vrakatar at 8:48 PM on May 3 [4 favorites]


- I think that the easy way to bring in mutants is to say that:
--there have always been people in the MCU who have had the potential to have superpowers; this is implied by Wanda and Pietro getting their powers from the Mind Stone, and the influence of the other Infinity Stones on superpowers and whatnot (the Time Stone as the Eye of Agamotto on the mystics of Kamar-Taj, the Space Stone as the Tesseract on SHIELD/Hydra, Howard Stark's work, and Project Pegasus/Captain Marvel, among others), and other knock-on effects of there being up to three on Earth at any given time.
--the influence of the Celestials on that potential may have been bigger than was realized. They've only been mentioned in passing in the GotG movies so far, but The Eternals will goose that considerably. The comics canon has that the Celestials created three branches of humanity via genetic engineering: the Eternals, who are more or less demigods; the Deviants, who are more or less demonic types who look different from generation to generation; and baseline humans, by far the most populous type, who have the latent mutant gene but not expressed, unless it's by some external force, such as radiation (most of the superheroes of Marvel's Silver Age got it this way, even Daredevil), or some other factor, such as...
--the Infinity Stones being destroyed, which might have leaked the power that they contained into the larger universe; that could explain Wanda's power-up (and passing on some of that power to Monica Rambeau), the guy in TFATWS who suddenly recreated the super-soldier formula, etc.

Of course, that would create a whole bunch of mutants at once; the comics have already flirted with the concept, with the Inhumans releasing a whole bunch of terrigen mist at once (the stuff that turns on their powers) that subsequently activates a bunch of latent Inhumans in the general population. (I have no idea if the MCU Inhumans, either in the short-lived TV series or the Agents of SHIELD crossover, ever used that plot.) Maybe they could have a relatively small number of mutants that already exist--198, say--through cosmic rays or random chance or stray encounters with Infinity Stones, which get bolstered by the Stones' destruction. That would allow for older mutants (Magneto, Apocalypse, Mister Sinister, Professor X, Wolverine, et al.) and those who you just wouldn't want to reboot (Deadpool), while making room for new or revamped versions of other legacy characters. Or maybe Deadpool and/or others will cross over via the multiverse.

- Speaking of Eternals, just a tiny taste, but it looks nice.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:51 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]


MCU Spiderman wisely skipped the origin story, I think they could easily do that for X-Men and probably Fantastic Four (slightly less well known than X-Men, but a quick flashback or something might be sufficient versus spending a whole movie on origins).

Nakia seems like a Black Panther possibility too? Definitely a trained fighter, character we know, and of course Wakanda doesn't go by blood succession. And she's been in the field a lot.
posted by thefoxgod at 8:55 PM on May 3 [3 favorites]


I have no idea if the MCU Inhumans, either in the short-lived TV series or the Agents of SHIELD crossover, ever used that plot.
Halloween Jack


I give you fish oil.
posted by sardonyx at 8:56 PM on May 3 [6 favorites]


still kinda own the rights to Namor.

The avenging son cares little to none about surface world "copywright law", air breather! IMPERIUS REX!
posted by vrakatar at 9:03 PM on May 3 [13 favorites]


I’ve watched this a half-dozen times today. The live crowd reaction from Endgame is used perfectly, and it builds to such a flex at the end. You like movies? We’ve got two years of them waiting for you right now. You want Captain Marvel? How about three of them?! WAKANDA FOREVER!!

I am, as Spock said, “emotionally compromised.”
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:14 PM on May 3 [19 favorites]


I don't even give a crap about Marvel and this still made me cry, lol. Disney know what they're doing. I've been in bed all day after my second Pfizer dose and I'm beyond ready to go see some dumb movie in a theater one of these days.
posted by potrzebie at 9:26 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]


They have any queer heroes yet?
posted by No One Ever Does at 9:43 PM on May 3 [6 favorites]




Good to hear, thanks.
posted by No One Ever Does at 10:48 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]


I'm slightly p-ed off that there are no mutants in this (except the Pretender, but you know, it's complicated, plus we don't say her name)

Her name is Wanda, and ret-conning away her mutant origins in the comics is utter bullshit.
They don't even need to worry about the Disney/Fox split anymore. They can fix this. It's one more ret-con, literally nobody will remember it.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:54 PM on May 3


Word is, The Marvels will feature Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, and Monica Rambeau, which is pretty cool.

Yeah, the symbol from Monica Rambeau/Spectrum's suit is in the "A" of the title logo and Ms. Marvel's costume "S" is the S at the end. The Ms. Marvel Disney+ show is currently filming.

Are we just not going to do giant team-ups any more?

They seem to be seeding in a "Young Avengers" film via the Disney+ Marvel shows. Wanda's twins showed up (with powers) in WandaVision. Eli Bradley just showed up (without powers) in Falcon & The Winter Soldier. Hailee Steinfeld is playing Kate Bishop in full costume in the forthcoming Hawkeye Disney+ show. And a lot of the other teammates are rumored to be appearing in the upcoming Phase 4 films and shows, as well.

I hope this ends up being the case, if only because I love the idea of a Young Avengers existing in a world where mutants suddenly start popping up. Scared kids with powers meet...scared kids with powers! And Spider-Man's there too probably.

Also I am SO PUMPED at the placement of the Fantastic Four logo in this video, because it feels like they're implying that F4 might be a result of the events of most of these Phase 4 films, instead of a standalone thing. Marvel has a weird little multiverse/time travel throughline happening in this phase, with Loki next month, possibly the next Spider-Man movie (considering the casting of villains from non-Marvel Spidey films), then Doctor Strange 2, then this Quantumania movie. The F4 could very well fly in fully formed from another timeline (THOUGHT YOU COULD ESCAPE THE MCU, HUH EVANS?) to fix things.

But that's just me conjecturing. Really all I want is MCU Galactus. GIVE ME GALACTUSSSSS.
posted by greenland at 11:02 PM on May 3 [5 favorites]


Damn.

That "We ... are ... Groot."
posted by chavenet at 12:47 AM on May 4 [4 favorites]


The first Disney film I remember seeing is Bambi and even as young as I was I remember crying and then being mad they made me cry over an animated doe.

Relive the pathos. And then: the rematch!
posted by flabdablet at 2:55 AM on May 4


I honestly expect the MCU X-Men to be a take on Krakoa, because the way that's been going in the comics has been extremely well received, and it's radically different to the Fox X-Men series. I think you could keep the subtext, which is an important part of the story, by having mutants come into their power and yearn for Krakoa in the way that gay teens yearned for San Francisco. But the trick is that these days subtext is usually not good enough, so they'd have to put queer people of colour up on the screen and also have the subtext of X-Men standing in for any marginalised group. If Marvel were careful, they could do this.

Marvel aren't that careful, which is why I reacted to the list of upcoming films only months apart with exhaustion.
posted by Merus at 3:04 AM on May 4


From the article linked above:

Kevin Feige himself has promised that more queer characters in the Marvel Cinematic Universe are on their way.

I feel like I should point out he's been promising this from 2015 onwards, always with "it's going to happen soon" and vague hints about who it might be. In 2017 he promised two LGBTQ+ characters in upcoming movies. At least one part of that promise turned out to be a crappy director cameo in a role that doesn't have any impact on the plot whatsoever. In that time the studio also cut out overtly queer scenes with Valkyrie and have been doubling down on making sure everyone knows that Bucky is definitely not bisexual and don't you dare even think that for a second.

There might be a trans character in Eternals, but my guess is they'll be a love interest or best friend/sidekick at best.

Anyone holding out for an openly queer main hero character is going to be waiting a long time, probably for some of the old white cishet men in the board room to die off.
posted by fight or flight at 3:23 AM on May 4 [2 favorites]


I'm slightly p-ed off that there are no mutants in this (except the Pretender, but you know, it's complicated, plus we don't say her name)

Not to go off too much into a sidebar, but oh boy I hate that this has become acceptable fandom nomenclature. The X-comics treatment of Wanda as a scapegoat in Krakoa is incredibly hypocritical and borderline misogynistic, given how many of the dudes in charge have done pretty awful things, on purpose, for decades -- and now they get to do whatever they want, because something something comics.

But when a woman has her mind controlled by Doom and is forced to do terrible things with her powers, it's okay for her to become a pariah, because the mutant nation needs someone to hate (??). Despite the fact that this has happened to multiple members of the X-Men many times and everyone welcomes them back with hugs and back pats. It's literally lampshaded in Children's Crusade, when Billy asks anyone who has been fucked up by mental manipulation to raise their hands. And now the excuse is that the X-leadership "didn't know". Fuck all the way off.

And leaving aside the fact that the person who coined this nickname is fucking Exodus of all people, it feels super Not Great to see a fandom that's starting to really embrace and lift up minority fans for the first time turning on a Roma woman with vile nicknames, because a wealthy white man told them to.
posted by fight or flight at 3:34 AM on May 4 [9 favorites]


Confession: I like origin stories. I'd be content watching the same origin story retold over and over again. It's easier than keeping track of character development and changes in canon. The X-Men will always be Professor X, Cyclops, Angel, Beast, Iceman and Marvel Girl to me, and I know other stuff happened later, but I don't really care about it.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:59 AM on May 4 [2 favorites]


So excited!!
posted by ellieBOA at 4:48 AM on May 4


Using the theater-camera reaction to Endgame’s portals scene was a very clever touch. Lord knows I’ve watched such clip compilations before.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 4:52 AM on May 4 [2 favorites]


Confession: I like origin stories. I'd be content watching the same origin story retold over and over again.

But could they do something other than fight an evil version of themselves?
posted by timdiggerm at 5:37 AM on May 4 [2 favorites]


fight or flight: " it feels super Not Great to see a fandom that's starting to really embrace and lift up minority fans for the first time turning on a Roma woman with vile nicknames, because a wealthy white man told them to."

As the one who posted the original 'The Pretender' comment, I stand corrected.
posted by signal at 6:25 AM on May 4 [1 favorite]


Are we just not going to do giant team-ups any more?

The Eternals is a whole team-up in itself....
posted by Pendragon at 6:48 AM on May 4


Dammit, still no Squirrel girl movie....
posted by Pendragon at 6:49 AM on May 4 [12 favorites]



I'm slightly p-ed off that there are no mutants in this


I for one applaud them not rushing in the mutants. It's definitely better if they take their time and do it right. But just because they didn't show any doesn't mean that none will appear.

Here's an expanded look at that audience reaction to Endgame's final battle.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:55 AM on May 4 [2 favorites]


fight or flight: Anyone holding out for an openly queer main hero character is going to be waiting a long time, probably for some of the old white cishet men in the board room to die off.

Some of it is old white cishet men in the board room, but a lot of it is distribution deals in large foreign markets like China where the government is anti-gay. See this article for instance.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:15 AM on May 4 [3 favorites]


But could they do something other than fight an evil version of themselves?

No.
posted by The Bellman at 7:49 AM on May 4 [1 favorite]


Pendragon: "Dammit, still no Squirrel girl movie...."

Yes, but to be fair she needs a 6 season tv show first.
And then the movie.
posted by signal at 8:03 AM on May 4 [11 favorites]


So maybe I'm in an alternate timeline here (and some spoilers/non-spoilers for WandaVision, which I haven't seen ...), but doesn't WandaVision provide the perfect way to explain why we haven't seen mutants? I thought House of M was part of the inspiration for WandaVision?
posted by jclarkin at 8:22 AM on May 4 [1 favorite]


I'll admit that I choked up a little at the audience reaction to Endgame. I haven't been to a damn movie since February 2020 and I'm dying to go sit in a dark room with other people and get lost in a story. This is the longest I've gone without seeing a movie in a theater since probably 1970.
posted by octothorpe at 8:39 AM on May 4 [4 favorites]


You know what they haven't announced? Any more Avengers movies. Are we just not going to do giant team-ups any more?

I mean, I think that we're in a MCU now where the Avengers and SHIELD as organizations have had their moment pass. Earth is truly part of the galactic community now, and more and more of our heroes are not Terran, let alone American. I think that it's not a coincidence that Guardians of the Galaxy is at the end of the line up, as I suspect we're going to see that moniker be the supergroup that pulls all the heroes together into the giant teamups for dealing with Thanos-level threats.

And all the old heroes that stick around are going to be a lot more independent and crotchety about doing things their own way.

And yeah, I'm pretty sure they're also paving the way for a Young Avengers reveal towards the end of Phase Four.
posted by 256 at 8:49 AM on May 4


Yeah, but when are they finally going to give Howard the Duck the movie he deserves?
posted by loquacious at 8:56 AM on May 4 [4 favorites]


Squirrel Girl need a good writing team, though. Ryan North was able to make her more than a joke character and it's better to have no Squirrel Girl than bad Squirrel Girl.
posted by rikschell at 9:11 AM on May 4 [11 favorites]


>I'm slightly p-ed off that there are no mutants in this (except the Pretender, but you know, it's complicated, plus we don't say her name). I am still hoping that they drop them into one of the movies the way they did Spider-Man, OR that they give Hickman a few billion dollars to start his own DoX-CU.

I've generally felt like X-Men were at odds with being in the same universe as all the other superhero shenanigans. The stories and analogies of X-Men work better when the focus is on X-Men, ignoring the infinity other ways for people to be appreciably different than a mundane human. X-Men stories tend to lean more into bigotry, of excluded or marginalized peoples, those kinds of narratives which are very human and grounded. That loses something when it's jammed into a universal sized kitchen sink soup containing literally every idea a corporation has ownership of for nearly 100 years.

I can buy bigotry against mutants in an X-Men only universe... but things get muddy quick when that same universe has Captain America being a public Hero, plus a bunch of other humans with super powers from different unnatural sources. There are also straight up non-humans, sentient killer robots, various aliens, extra-dimensional beings, entities of power equivalent to those as gods in religions. The same fear and hate and tribal bullshit that results in bigotry against X-Men would go out the window and aim itself at all of these truly Other threats. Mutants are humans who naturally were born with superpowers, I reckon the bitterest bigot would rather make microaggressions at a mutant they're vaguely allied with than go cozying up to Literal Aliens.

The merged Marvel universe also has a host of other nonsense going on that at best muddies X-Men stories and canons, and at worst breaks it so bad you just have to deliberately ignore it. Half the people on Earth might be aliens posing as humans, or maybe it's something even crazier but maybe they change reality altogether because of some big space fight somewhere? Who knows, anything and everything will happen.

I think we've been fortunate so far that X-Men movies have not Kitchen Sink'd themselves. Can't imagine Disney won't jam in the MCU with everything else, but lol, that's going to be more awkward the longer they wait to stuff them in. Ideally* if/when Disney makes X-Men movies, they'd be in their own bubble, crossing over only through whatever metaverse portal nonsense if/when they "have" to.

*Okay, ideally Disney would release all of it's IP unilaterally into the public domain and sell off it's remaining parts to split as reparations for all of its workers since its creation... but ideally in terms of movies they'll make.
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:56 AM on May 4 [4 favorites]


I can buy bigotry against mutants in an X-Men only universe... but things get muddy quick when that same universe has Captain America being a public Hero, plus a bunch of other humans with super powers from different unnatural sources.

The arbitrariness and irrationality of hating mutants and loving Captain America is the point.
posted by straight at 10:40 AM on May 4 [13 favorites]


The arbitrariness and irrationality of hating mutants and loving Captain America is the point.

I'm thinking of all the committed racists--who may also be law enforcement officers--who also follow any number of teams/sports that could only happen with the percentage of elite Black players. That is what I'm thinking, with your observation. Like a lot of fantasy, it's the fractured mirror of our lives that make the stories endure.
posted by elkevelvet at 10:46 AM on May 4 [1 favorite]


that audience reaction for Avengers Endgame was painful to watch given what happened right after.

Sorry if it’s obvious to everyone else, but what happened right after? Is it something in the movie plot? Sorry, these movies are fun to watch but I forget them the moment they’re over.
posted by cilantro at 10:57 AM on May 4 [1 favorite]


So, I get that "celebrates the Movies" means what it means, but ... anyone else get the distinct impression that the Netflix shows have entered "and we shall never speak of this again" territory?
posted by kyrademon at 11:35 AM on May 4


anyone else get the distinct impression that the Netflix shows have entered "and we shall never speak of this again" territory

RUMOR: Marvel Has Decided Which Netflix Stars Will Join the MCU
posted by metabaroque at 11:38 AM on May 4 [1 favorite]


The Netflix shows had some inconsistent writing and pacing issues but the casting was for the most part, great.
posted by octothorpe at 11:55 AM on May 4 [3 favorites]


Also, I'm pretty sure I (and others) have mentioned this before but expecting consistent and realistic plots or action from movies based on the expansive, sprawling and wildly woolly Marvel Comic Universe is like expecting water to not be wet.

While I also grew up with the comics, I was never really a fan or someone who bought Marvel comics or superhero/mutant/whatever comics while a whole lot of my peers were way into it. (I think the only series I briefly got into was Next Men, and that was almost a DC title that they passed on, and ended up being put out by Dark Horse.)

It was pretty clear to me in the late 80s and early 90s when Marvel started fractally delaminating into a bazillion different sub-plots, side story arcs and crossovers and so on it was a bid to get fans to buy even more comics and collect more and more titles like Pokemon, and so here we are with multi-million dollar major motion pictures and people still trying to reconcile all of this hoariness as if it ever made any sort of sense or formed a solid canon in the first place.

I'm super ok with this and pretty much just whatever about it. Stuff like Thor: Ragnarok, Deadpool and Guardians of the Galaxy are fun and weird. It's cool.

But I can't understand why anyone is expecting Hamlet or any sort of fine script writing out of it at all. We're talking about some very silly and make it up as we go comic books.

Also I really want to see more of Sakaar. Can someone send Deadpool to Sakaar? Maybe having him go up against a hapless Jeff Goldblum as Grand Master and take him down? That would be lots of fun.
posted by loquacious at 12:02 PM on May 4 [3 favorites]


I seriously want to see Deadpool and Guardians of the Galaxy on Sakaar. Maybe throw the Sovereign in there fighting over something silly like stolen batteries that ended up on the trash planet. Maybe Deadpool somehow gets hold of Mjolnir and utter chaos happens. Or Mjolnir versus Yondu's arrow. Hell, get Tony Stark in there, too, stinking drunk and building stuff out of trash very badly and failing horribly and getting his ass kicked because he deserves it.
posted by loquacious at 12:09 PM on May 4 [1 favorite]


RUMOR: Marvel Has Decided Which Netflix Stars Will Join the MCU

if you had to pick just one of the Netflix characters not to cross over into the movies, which one would it be and how would you break the news to Finn Jones?
posted by logicpunk at 12:11 PM on May 4 [11 favorites]


if you had to pick just one of the Netflix characters not to cross over into the movies, which one would it be and how would you break the news to Finn Jones?


As I said, the casting was great for the most part. He was the big except to that. I couldn't get through the Iron Fist and only made it through The Defenders because of Sigourney Weaver.
posted by octothorpe at 1:10 PM on May 4 [2 favorites]


The arbitrariness and irrationality of hating mutants and loving Captain America is the point.

I am 100% down with this until we have Captain America being an asshole to mutants in order to make their whole hated underdog deal work. This is something the comics have leaned into over recent years, and that broader trend has left me barely reading comics at all.

I have friends who defend this whole thing because they feel like it's an important aspect of portraying bigotry, prejudice, showing how otherwise good people have their blind spots, etc. I get that it's important to them. The problem for me is that "Captain America is a genuinely good dude" is supposed to be the same guy in the same world as "editorial needs the X-Men and Avengers to fight again, so I guess it's time for Cap to be a dick." This happens despite all the team-ups, all the soul-bearing stories they've shared, all the times these characters have literally mind-merged or whatever.

At that point, he's not living up to "best and most morally good dude of the superhero set," because he's not even living up to the standard I set for ordinary people. He's just beating up on an oppressed group (because, again, editorial). And he's hardly the worst example of this; he's just the most egregious.

The thing is, I dearly love the Kitchen Sink element of the Marvel Universe. But watching the way these teams and groups are set up now, I'm kinda glad Steve Rogers has checked out of the MCU, because I really don't want to watch him inevitably fight the X-Men for cheap memes.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:19 PM on May 4 [4 favorites]


I've actually always thought of the 616 Captain America as a military industrial complex mouthpiece, so his being a dick to the X-Men because his government told him to seemed on brand.
He's been a dick to lots of people before, see Carol Danvers, for example.
posted by signal at 1:53 PM on May 4


Yeah, the X-men vs Avengers stuff of the past few years has been mostly bad. The comic book version of Civil War was a thousand times worse than the movie. Pretty much any good idea in comics has been poorly executed more often than not. And there's plenty of bad ideas too. The bigger the story, the more likely you are to see consistent characterization tossed aside for the sake of plot.

I don't know why I love this dumb stuff so much. Partly because you occasionally get something like Loki: Journey Into Mystery by Kieron Gillen or Thor: Ragnarok that is so good it transfigures the stuff that came before it and fools you into remembering it as better than it was.

But also you know how you watch a TV show and at first it doesn't grab you but after two seasons you are invested in the characters and the dumb plot twists start to matter and the good ones are amazing? Now imagine you've been watching that TV series off and on and had those characters living in your head since you were 10 years old.
posted by straight at 2:02 PM on May 4 [4 favorites]


Pretty much any good idea in comics has been poorly executed

the Death of Superman at the hands of Doomsday always struck me as shabby, and I was never a Superman comics reader for any number of reasons. I checked out the momentous death issue just because it felt like a big deal to someone who'd been into comic books as a kid.. On the same level of characters getting married (Peter Parker and Mary Jane, Archie Andrews).. it's like your adult brain thinks it should know better, but the kid in you can't help but look. Anyhow, the Death of Superman was handled so poorly.. it felt a bit like getting to the end of the Odyssey only instead of the big comeuppance with the suitors, Odysseus steps onto the shores of Ithaca and Poseidon shoots a venomous eel from the ocean and it bites Odysseus, The End.
posted by elkevelvet at 2:24 PM on May 4


I 100% hope they bring in the FF and Mutants via some multiverse shenanigans and we don't get a whole origin story movie for each. Everyone knows their origins already. (I'm also wary of bringing the FF in... they don't have the best cinematic track record. The MCU's gonna have some dips and slowdowns eventually, and the FF might be cinematically jinxed.)
posted by lovecrafty at 3:11 PM on May 4


The thing with the X-Men is that it's such an extended team book you can't really do an 'origin story' unless you did each one of the O.G. 5 individually.
If you look at the first X-Men movie, it has a sort of origin for Rogue and the recruitment of Wolverine and that's it, other than that we're in medias res.
Even the first X-Men comic back in the day started with the (cringey) arrival of Jean to an already existing team. And no actual origin story for the 5 until much later in the run.
posted by signal at 4:00 PM on May 4 [1 favorite]


The Netflix shows had some inconsistent writing and pacing issues but the casting was for the most part, great.

For example Elden Henson as Foggy Nelson.
posted by mikelieman at 4:40 PM on May 4 [3 favorites]


The probably didn’t include any X-men because they were busy burning any remaining copies of X of Swords.
posted by butterstick at 7:16 PM on May 4


but doesn't WandaVision provide the perfect way to explain why we haven't seen mutants? I thought House of M was part of the inspiration for WandaVision?

this hasn't been specifically replied to, but short answer is: no, not really. The bits of House of M that WV took was more on her creating a happy family alternate reality, with some allusions to the multiverse at the end, but nothing canonically definitive for mutants in MCU (if you've heard fan chatter, it turned out to be a plot feint, and the position is still, as far as MCU folks are concerned they have no idea what mutants are, yet).
posted by cendawanita at 10:00 PM on May 4


At least one mutant has already been confirmed to be joining the MCU: Kevin Feige Confirms ‘Deadpool 3’ Is an MCU Movie; Teases R-Rating and When It’s Filming
posted by exolstice at 6:24 AM on May 5


Shuri is a phenomenal character from every angle.
I was floored and disappointed to find out how much harm Letitia Wright was doing during the pandemic - I've decided to give her a pass because she's barely 27 years old and I did and said very stupid things at the same age.
YMMV
posted by Baby_Balrog at 11:28 AM on May 5


I have a very hard time criticizing a black person for being skeptical about health care promises and assurances from the United States government.
posted by straight at 11:49 AM on May 5


Letitia Wright is British-Guyanese, not American.
posted by tavella at 12:36 PM on May 5


I have a very hard time criticizing a black person for being skeptical about health care promises and assurances from the United States government.

I have no problem criticizing a Black or British-Guynanese person who posts a video disputing the COVID19 vaccine and vaccines in general along with climate change skepticism and transphobic comments.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:48 PM on May 5 [5 favorites]


Yeah...I love the character, but we could probably recast the actress if she's going to act like that IRL. Sigh.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:34 PM on May 5


I would trade it all in five times over for a vital indie film scene. Spectacle at the absolute worst. An elaborate and banal mythology about the end of empire. I wonder if people will wake up.
posted by n9 at 5:53 PM on May 5


I certainly hope we get more Monica Rambeau, though.

I, too, hope we get Nextwave.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:41 PM on May 5 [5 favorites]


I would trade it all in five times over for a vital indie film scene. Spectacle at the absolute worst. An elaborate and banal mythology about the end of empire. I wonder if people will wake up.

this is a perfect parody of that person who always shows up to tell you the thing you enjoy is bad and wrong and you should knock it off this instant. got the tone down and everything. well done.
posted by logicpunk at 8:23 PM on May 5 [12 favorites]


Don't you ever call Thor banal. Star Lord? Yeah, ok, BUT NOT THOR.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:31 PM on May 5


Spectacle at the absolute worst.

To be fair, there's a lot of bread in circuses.
posted by flabdablet at 9:51 PM on May 5


this is a perfect parody of that person who always shows up to tell you the thing you enjoy is bad and wrong

I was gonna let this thread pass because I get how many people here are into the MCU, but, seriously? There's been, what?, two comments out of 85 that expressed some displeasure with the trailer and that is still too much to handle? As if any disagreement about Disney and the state of movies today needs to be put down lest the fandom of multi-billion dollar franchise might feel even the slightest pause over a conflicting take.

There absolutely is a consensus on Metafilter that some things indeed are bad and while it might not be "wrong" to enjoy them, it certainly may well be problematic to do so. I have no opinion on movies I haven't seen, but find the trailer itself grotesquely manipulative and disingenuous for how it plays with the emotions around values Disney only glancingly honors to any substantial end, but has found ample gain in wielding those banal sentiments as if they were of monumental import in their corporate strategy.

The continuous recourse to talk of the importance of "family", the most inoffensive of values as a family can be anything and fit to all viewers in their own fashion, while hinting at more "progressive" ideals they don't actually risk dramatizing in any detail for fear of offending part of their audience at home or overseas, so they are added in winks and nods or rendered neutral and safe for the majority for the same reasons, letting the minority fandoms fanfic the hinted subtext instead. "Sisters" they say showing Danvers and Rambeau walking together as if maybe, possibly they were a couple, but that's just an "easter egg" since they couldn't just be matter of fact about it lest they lose the Chinese market and conservatives. Maybe next time though!

They draw on memories of their previous releases in the most over-saturated emotional pandering, even cutting to the audience response to really seal the deal lest one's own emotions weren't tweaked enough by the other cues. People ate this up! See! That might have been you cheering, but if not you were missing out and should also give in to our manipulations! The clips they show from the upcoming releases are almost entirely bland and cliche ridden, a motorcycle dodging through traffic, a fight on a bus! but when tied to Lee's platitudes and clips first showing the street filled with the milling masses of the generic "common man", the world which you the audience inhabit but want to dream of really being like the stars they cut to next in their "self sacrificing" mode, a deeply questionable ideology in its own right but in this heightened form further abstracting it from those masses of humanity the studio claims to love to heroic individualism that feeds dreams of escaping the crowd that is allegedly so deeply loved.

But that's Disney's "magic" saying one thing out loud while demonstrating the contrary to give the audience whatever they want without actually committing to belief in anything other than their own corporate ideology. Enjoy that if you want, no one can stop you, but don't pretend there isn't something problematic about so, so much of the work and the corporations that make it and don't act like you're standing up for important principles by swiping at dissenting opinion that doesn't fit the feedback loop. The "let people like it" mantra put before other considerations only benefits the status quo and the love of immediate pleasure unburdened by possibility ofany questioning of your "likes".
posted by gusottertrout at 12:16 AM on May 6 [8 favorites]


I was gonna let this thread pass because I get how many people here are into the MCU, but, seriously?

Yep, seriously. Most people in the thread are talking about various aspects of the MCU, what the they like, don't like etc, etc.

No one is putting Disney on a pedestal. Very few people are unaware of the manipulative aspects of this trailer/commercial. Most are just linking to have a good time talking about the aspects of the MCU or the comics they're based.

Then here you come, doing what? You're not talking about anything new or unknown. You haven't seen the movies or probably recent tv shows, so having not substantial to add.

Read the room please and move along.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:21 AM on May 6 [6 favorites]


I have seen all but the yet to be released movies, which is what I was referring to about the trailer and I would have left well enough alone if I didn't find the "let people like things" continually being wielded to ward off any dissenting perspectives, which is really gross for reasons I outlined above among others and creates a weird proprietary attitude about threads on the site, where only certain takes are welcome, even though they often tend to run counter to other claimed values the site promotes, but I guess when personal entertainment is involved that stuff goes out the window, at least until it becomes impossible to ignore like with Ray Fisher's claims against Warner Bros, then it finds a proper surrogate for blame and we get to engage in the fun again guilt free.
posted by gusottertrout at 4:48 AM on May 6 [1 favorite]


Fyi all, the Loki series will start Wednesday, June 9, two days earlier than the previously announced Friday, June 11. New episodes will appear Wednesday.

Yep, this puts Loki ahead of Thor’s day.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:12 AM on May 6 [2 favorites]


jesus that comment i was making fun of was a 'dissenting perspective' in the same way that farting in movie theater is. 'banal mythology about the end of empire?' searing take, man, can i subscribe to your academic journal?

there's a difference between being upfront about how disney's corporate hegemony could problematically influence what material makes it into the final product vs. yelling 'wake up sheeple!' The first approach acknowledges that the material is worth discussing to begin with, the second denies there's any value whatsoever.

which, fine, it's not a genre everyone likes, but the attitude that we're obligated to take the 'superheroes are stoopid' lobby seriously can fuck right off. 'liking' something can include critical engagement, but that really necessitates a baseline level of respect.
posted by logicpunk at 6:22 AM on May 6 [9 favorites]


Wait, are you telling me a corporation that makes and profits from mass entertainment is less than 100% pure and sincere in everything it does????

THIS HAS NEVER BEFORE HAPPENED IN THE HISTORY OF THE PLANET AND IS SHOCKING AND SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!!!!!

So glad there are people here smart enough to see through the lies and inform those of us who are not as perceptive.
posted by signal at 7:56 AM on May 6


Totally missed the Fantastic Four reference. Maybe I'll finally be able to show my boy a Fantastic Four movie without making excuses for why it isn't as good as the 30 year old comics I gave him.
posted by Kreiger at 8:06 AM on May 6


Ohhh, Loki appearing on Wednesday, also trumps Odin!

Woden was another name for Odin and Woden's day eventually became Wednesday.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:08 AM on May 6



Anyway the real question is how are they gonna retcon Ongebp[rot-13]'s death in TFATWS (or CAATWS) for the trilogy of Gwenpool movies directed by Emerald Fennell and will she still be somebody who read all the Marvel comics or will she be somebody who watched all the MCU movies and series?
posted by signal at 8:59 AM on May 6


Y'all realize Disney did not invent banal mass entertainment, right? I mean Thor is right there, emblematic of hundreds if not thousands of years of humans telling each other silly stories meant to entertain. Yeah, Disney is absolutely an irredeemable shitpile but it's not because they're spending money making movies about people who fly around in capes and punch each other.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 12:40 PM on May 6


I'm fairly ambivalent to modern superhero movies. I'll watch them and be entertained but I very rarely end up seeing them in the cinema because I only go to the cinema without my kids a 1-2 times a year and there are usually other things I'd rather watch. My usual go-to is seeing them once they're on Netflix, which thanks to Disney+'s existence means I haven't got the chance to see Endgame yet, although I'm satisfied with Infinity War's ending so that's OK. The thing is I like superheroes. I still buy superhero comics pretty much every week but I can more easily spare the time to read a comic book than sit through a movie and I like to support my local comic shop. It's a strange situation though where superhero movies are the most watched films of the year and I like comic books but haven't seen any of the movies.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:07 PM on May 6


Honestly the seven weeks of no programming is so pleasant to me because I'm deep in my winterfalcon nonsense, I'm even looking up fanvids! But I've completely lost my way in trying to find recs or a gathering place for them tho, unlike fanfic.
posted by cendawanita at 9:42 PM on May 6


Just to clarify my own position, I'm not interested in judging people's response to any of the movies individually, to whatever extent a given film is liked or hated, though I'm certainly interested in hearing those responses discussed in a respectful way no matter which way they fall. I've personally "liked" some of the MCU films well enough on their own terms and "disliked" others in the same fashion and hated a couple and also collected comics as a kid and intermittently have gone back to "catch up" on the what I miss, having a 20-30 comic pull list at my local comicshop as recently as 2015, back when I thought I'd have disposable income for a while.

For me it's more that I find the entirety of the concept/ideology behind Disney's MCU to have some rather serious problems that come out in all the movies and are magnified by how they and Disney are treated by fans and, more to the point, Metafilter, which, with the sheet volume of posts on Disney properties and attitude towards them, sometimes feels more like a marketing arm of the company than a site where there can be discussions of the good and the bad without causing anger.

If it was just a Disney thing, then that might not be so bad, though still irksome, but it finds correspondence in how so many discussions seem to go on the site, where individual action is increasingly seeming to be discounted due to the overwhelming nature of systemic problems, while defending the indulgences that feed that imbalance. Make a post about meat posting or a recipe site not adding new beef recipes and people will jump in to defend the consumption, make a post about climate change and there will immediately be responses on why individual actions don't matter, a post about some new shit Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, Google, or whatever company does and people will feel need to justify why they need them, but post about a billionaire and the pitchforks come out or mention unfair labor practices and the cry for "unions" still arise. These things are incompatible, we can't both feed the beast and seek to kill it without there being a troubling contradiction that mostly seems to come from how we value our own ease and pleasure.

Disney, to my eyes, plays off that very contradiction and thrives by doing so, pretending to offer moral values or even just representation while only doing it on their terms to fit the demand that only rates representation and values when put forth by the same group of corporate producers that denied the same and seek to maintain the status quo instead of actively seeking alternatives even if just in the attempt to balance the power Disney and others have. While there are certainly some reasonable excuses for some interaction with the system as it is, why people stay on Twitter or need Amazon say, the choice of entertainment is not like those and represents how deeply we've been inculcated into the ideology of neoliberalism and corporate control, as if we are entirely powerless to do even the least thing about it at all because our pleasure is so tied to the corporate product there is no alternative we're able to enjoy or even see as an option.

The linked trailer for MCU not only recognizes that, but plays up the idea of "escape", not only from the people Disney professes to love to the world of heroes, but from the system they help maintain by consuming products furthering that maintenance, where the heroic function is simply to fend off threats and, with a snap of a finger, return the idealized and unchanging status quo. It's even in the form their product line takes, a continuous story that offers no real closure or possibility to see clearly as a whole, just a flow of characters acting in ways we know they will to give us pleasures we anticipate with only slight room for surprise or sense of something profoundly new, only variations of old patterns and packaging.
posted by gusottertrout at 11:44 PM on May 6 [2 favorites]






I love being with people. It's the most incredible thing in the world.
posted by flabdablet at 8:11 AM on May 7 [2 favorites]


The world may change and evolve, but the one thing that will never change: we’re all part of one big family.
posted by flabdablet at 8:29 AM on May 7


Mod note: One pretty crappy dismissive comment removed, as well as several y'all-should-know-better replies to it. General reminder that it's okay to just skip a thread about a thing you acutely dislike and that other people clearly like. Specific requests that (a) n9, you avoid this sort of engagement in the future, and (b) folks make more of an effort to route around fight-starting comments instead of making them what the conversation is about.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:12 AM on May 7


The linked trailer for MCU not only recognizes that, but plays up the idea of "escape", not only from the people Disney professes to love to the world of heroes, but from the system they help maintain by consuming products furthering that maintenance, where the heroic function is simply to fend off threats and, with a snap of a finger, return the idealized and unchanging status quo. It's even in the form their product line takes, a continuous story that offers no real closure or possibility to see clearly as a whole, just a flow of characters acting in ways we know they will to give us pleasures we anticipate with only slight room for surprise or sense of something profoundly new, only variations of old patterns and packaging.

So, capitalism? Some version of this happens, or will happen, any time creative works and culture are commodified and then commoditized. I'm unsure why this pattern is specifically odious here, rather than being mundanely odious along with most of the other cultural activity that has been subsumed by capitalism.
posted by LooseFilter at 9:52 AM on May 7


It's even in the form their product line takes, a continuous story that offers no real closure or possibility to see clearly as a whole

Yes like comic strips and books have practiced since over a century ago. Longer, if you include other forms of serialized entertainment.
Is it really so odd that the Marvel Cinematic Universe would tell comic-book like stories?
posted by signal at 11:13 AM on May 7


Nakia seems like a Black Panther possibility too? Definitely a trained fighter, character we know, and of course Wakanda doesn't go by blood succession. And she's been in the field a lot.

Yes, this! Everyone is talking about Shuri and I'm like - NAKIA IS RIGHT THERE. I get that Shuri became the BP in the comics but movie Nakia seems like a better successor than movie Shuri.
posted by Preserver at 11:30 AM on May 7 [1 favorite]


The linked trailer for MCU not only recognizes that, but plays up the idea of "escape", not only from the people Disney professes to love to the world of heroes, but from the system they help maintain by consuming products furthering that maintenance, where the heroic function is simply to fend off threats and, with a snap of a finger, return the idealized and unchanging status quo.

Just gonna pause here and note that the "idealized and unchanging status quo" what I've been noticing with WandaVision and Captain America and the White Wolf.

Otherwise, it's...the MCU. Run by Disney. There are all sorts of problems with that, the stories, the plot, the creators, and the characters. Pointing that out, with varying levels of dismissiveness. about those who have enjoyed the ride will not win anyone an argument.

I'd recommend looking at the individual threads of the various shows or movies, you'll always find lots of disagreement about various aspects in there.

Or make a post about whatever wrong thing you think is going on, there will be no shortage of people agreeing with those issues.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:34 AM on May 7


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