"[T]here Is Certainly Something Daring & Countercultural About His Song"
May 6, 2021 8:00 PM Subscribe
A historical analysis, from both musical and fashion perspectives, of Sir Mix-a-Lot's "Baby Got Back."
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- loup
This is really interesting.
It's mighty tragic to see the way white people of a certain age react to "Baby Got Back," and I say this as one of them. Knowing all the words and singing them in big groups is, guys, it's, don't.
Just the other day, I felt really old when I saw the thumbnail art for a Youtube video called "Did the Amazons Really Exist?" Compare it with the assets emphasized on the women in another ephemeral pop painting from the '80s, the poster for Amazon Women on the Moon. I think I prefer the first, inasmuch as the thickness also has value as muscular tissue. But having assets that men shout about, whatever they are, is not at all fun (unless you are on a particular job, and even then it gets old).
posted by Countess Elena at 8:33 PM on May 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
It's mighty tragic to see the way white people of a certain age react to "Baby Got Back," and I say this as one of them. Knowing all the words and singing them in big groups is, guys, it's, don't.
Just the other day, I felt really old when I saw the thumbnail art for a Youtube video called "Did the Amazons Really Exist?" Compare it with the assets emphasized on the women in another ephemeral pop painting from the '80s, the poster for Amazon Women on the Moon. I think I prefer the first, inasmuch as the thickness also has value as muscular tissue. But having assets that men shout about, whatever they are, is not at all fun (unless you are on a particular job, and even then it gets old).
posted by Countess Elena at 8:33 PM on May 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
As a white female person who was consuming media before the early 1990’s, I can attest to the fact that women’s magazines targeted at white audiences were full of both features and advertising extolling the virtues of a small posterior. And the girls in my all-white schools were absolutely savage in their criticism of anyone who was perceived to have a large one.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:17 AM on May 7, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:17 AM on May 7, 2021 [4 favorites]
If you go back to the 70's, you'll hear music gods Queen informing everyone that Fat Bottomed Girls make the rockin' world go round.
And while the funky Commodores seemed to think that lettin' it all hang out at 36-24-36 made one built like a Brick...
House
, the hard rock boys from Australia meanwhile sang the praises of 42-39-56 as being a Whole Lotta Rosie; you could say she's got it all!
posted by bartleby at 1:37 AM on May 7, 2021 [5 favorites]
And while the funky Commodores seemed to think that lettin' it all hang out at 36-24-36 made one built like a Brick...
House
, the hard rock boys from Australia meanwhile sang the praises of 42-39-56 as being a Whole Lotta Rosie; you could say she's got it all!
posted by bartleby at 1:37 AM on May 7, 2021 [5 favorites]
Two only tangentially related things, but (1) the fact that the opening bars of this song pass the Bechdel test is kind of amazing, and (2) My favourite tweet of all time - the original now long lost I think - is:
"Sir Mix-a-lot likes big butts and cannot lie. His twin brother does not like big butts and never tells the truth. You may ask one question."
Knowing all the words and singing them in big groups is, guys, it's, don't.
This is extremely true.
posted by mhoye at 6:13 AM on May 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
"Sir Mix-a-lot likes big butts and cannot lie. His twin brother does not like big butts and never tells the truth. You may ask one question."
Knowing all the words and singing them in big groups is, guys, it's, don't.
This is extremely true.
posted by mhoye at 6:13 AM on May 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
Knowing all the words and singing them in big groups is, guys, it's, don't.
That's possibly true of any song, with the exception of Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 6:45 AM on May 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
That's possibly true of any song, with the exception of Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 6:45 AM on May 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
Sir Mix-a-lot may be a one hit wonder for BGB, but he should also be known for his anti-police brutality track One Time's Got No Case.
posted by jclarkin at 7:13 AM on May 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by jclarkin at 7:13 AM on May 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
I'm rather fond of "Posse on Broadway", myself.
The historians' explanations seem to be on the right track. "Heroin chic" was indeed a thing back in the early 90s, though I'm not sure how much of that really aligns with grunge. At least at the time, "Baby Got Back" seems to be a Miami Bass-style song in spirit, despite Sir Mix-a-Lot being from the other side of the country. There were a few hit Miami Bass songs around that time, though none of them became as popular as "Baby Got Back", so it wouldn't surprise me if that subgenre was an overt influence.
posted by May Kasahara at 7:41 AM on May 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
The historians' explanations seem to be on the right track. "Heroin chic" was indeed a thing back in the early 90s, though I'm not sure how much of that really aligns with grunge. At least at the time, "Baby Got Back" seems to be a Miami Bass-style song in spirit, despite Sir Mix-a-Lot being from the other side of the country. There were a few hit Miami Bass songs around that time, though none of them became as popular as "Baby Got Back", so it wouldn't surprise me if that subgenre was an overt influence.
posted by May Kasahara at 7:41 AM on May 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
he should also be known for his anti-police brutality
Man. I was going to call out my vote for the friendliest track ever, where Sir Mix a Lot spends the whole song just saying "hi" to everyone and calling out his favorite stuff.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:41 AM on May 7, 2021 [8 favorites]
Man. I was going to call out my vote for the friendliest track ever, where Sir Mix a Lot spends the whole song just saying "hi" to everyone and calling out his favorite stuff.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:41 AM on May 7, 2021 [8 favorites]
He should also be known for all of the work he has done in the Pacific Northwest to support the local music scene during Covid.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 7:43 AM on May 7, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 7:43 AM on May 7, 2021 [13 favorites]
I tell people that it’s his support for local music behind my vote for Sir Digs a Lot as the name for the next Seattle tunnel boring machine. But I’m also one of those white boys who knows this whole song by heart.
posted by bjrubble at 8:25 AM on May 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by bjrubble at 8:25 AM on May 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
Sir Mix-A-Lot likes big butts and cannot lie. His identical twin brother hates big butts and cannot tell the truth. You can ask one question...
posted by acb at 8:33 AM on May 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by acb at 8:33 AM on May 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
Uh, so, is Mix actually one of these low key under the radar saints, and just not enough people know?
posted by mhoye at 8:48 AM on May 7, 2021
posted by mhoye at 8:48 AM on May 7, 2021
At least at the time, "Baby Got Back" seems to be a Miami Bass-style song in spirit
This tracks with where he had arrived by Return of the Bumpasaraus I think. Seems like that style really intrigued him.
posted by EatTheWeek at 9:22 AM on May 7, 2021
This tracks with where he had arrived by Return of the Bumpasaraus I think. Seems like that style really intrigued him.
posted by EatTheWeek at 9:22 AM on May 7, 2021
Unsurprised but disappointed to see another generation fail to understand just how much the “ideal” female form changes over time (not to mention place and culture). As a pear shaped white girl I was desperate for a smaller ass and narrower hips in my early 2000s youth.
posted by vanitas at 10:22 AM on May 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by vanitas at 10:22 AM on May 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
Sir Mix-A-Lot likes big butts and cannot lie. His identical twin brother hates big butts and cannot tell the truth. You can ask one question...
Flip a coin and ask one of the twins: "Which of you is lying about hating big butts?"
Let's say Good Sir Mix gets asked first.
Good Sir Mix likes big butts and always tells the truth, so he points immediately at Evil Sir Mix, who lies about everything and is probably lying about this, too.
Evil Sir Mix is done. The flop sweat starts to run. He's a good liar, but he can't protest about being called one by pointing back at Good Sir Mix. If he did, Evil Sir Mix would be admitting that he doesn't like big butts, and he can't tell the truth. About anything. But definitely not about that. He's not allowed. He starts looking around for the nearest exit.
Say Evil Sir Mix gets asked first. He's trapped again by the same double-negative. He can't point at his brother without telling the shameful truth that he hates big butts, which he can't do. Mustn't do. All he can do is sit there, a bundle of sweaty nerves. His new name is Sir Blinks-A-Lot. The good twin goes off to fame and fortune.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:25 AM on May 7, 2021 [5 favorites]
Flip a coin and ask one of the twins: "Which of you is lying about hating big butts?"
Let's say Good Sir Mix gets asked first.
Good Sir Mix likes big butts and always tells the truth, so he points immediately at Evil Sir Mix, who lies about everything and is probably lying about this, too.
Evil Sir Mix is done. The flop sweat starts to run. He's a good liar, but he can't protest about being called one by pointing back at Good Sir Mix. If he did, Evil Sir Mix would be admitting that he doesn't like big butts, and he can't tell the truth. About anything. But definitely not about that. He's not allowed. He starts looking around for the nearest exit.
Say Evil Sir Mix gets asked first. He's trapped again by the same double-negative. He can't point at his brother without telling the shameful truth that he hates big butts, which he can't do. Mustn't do. All he can do is sit there, a bundle of sweaty nerves. His new name is Sir Blinks-A-Lot. The good twin goes off to fame and fortune.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:25 AM on May 7, 2021 [5 favorites]
Sir Mix-A-Lot likes big butts and cannot lie. His identical twin brother hates big butts and cannot tell the truth. You can ask one question...
Is my butt thicc?
posted by loquacious at 10:26 AM on May 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
Is my butt thicc?
posted by loquacious at 10:26 AM on May 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
Another pear-shaped white girl here. As fun as this song was, I remember that it added to my feelings of hopelessness about my body when it was released.
It reinforced for me what I'd already gathered from catcalls by age 16, when it came out: that my body type was not widely popular among my white male peers, who were the majority of my community, and was popular among Black and brown men, who were not.
I disagree that it tracks as a response to heroin chic. That was in the ascendant at the time but really not the mainstream. The fashionable body shape at the time was still a long-legged, busty, small-waist, not-a-lot-of-hip hourglass. There was great emphasis on the bust in the 80s and into the early 90s.
The extremely thin Cosmopygian "cover girl" in the "Baby Got Back" video wasn't the fashionable shape then - she was shockingly thin by the standards of the time. She's not there as an exemplar of what was popular, but as an exaggeration of the white standard - she's there as a joke.
I fell ill with myalgic encephalomyelitis in 2004, losing fifteen pounds nearly instantly and my significant ass. So when booties became popular, I no longer had mine.
It wasn't a thing that was a great way to feel, but I felt a bit bitter that I had missed out on benefiting from my shape in the mainstream in both directions.
posted by jocelmeow at 11:21 AM on May 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
It reinforced for me what I'd already gathered from catcalls by age 16, when it came out: that my body type was not widely popular among my white male peers, who were the majority of my community, and was popular among Black and brown men, who were not.
I disagree that it tracks as a response to heroin chic. That was in the ascendant at the time but really not the mainstream. The fashionable body shape at the time was still a long-legged, busty, small-waist, not-a-lot-of-hip hourglass. There was great emphasis on the bust in the 80s and into the early 90s.
The extremely thin Cosmopygian "cover girl" in the "Baby Got Back" video wasn't the fashionable shape then - she was shockingly thin by the standards of the time. She's not there as an exemplar of what was popular, but as an exaggeration of the white standard - she's there as a joke.
I fell ill with myalgic encephalomyelitis in 2004, losing fifteen pounds nearly instantly and my significant ass. So when booties became popular, I no longer had mine.
It wasn't a thing that was a great way to feel, but I felt a bit bitter that I had missed out on benefiting from my shape in the mainstream in both directions.
posted by jocelmeow at 11:21 AM on May 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
Sir Mix-A-Lot likes big butts and cannot lie. His identical twin brother hates big butts and cannot tell the truth. You can ask one question...
Q: "Would your brother give the same answer you did about liking big butts?"
(Our model presumes bivalence. They would both say that they do like big butts. Sir Mix-a-lot does, and tells the truth that he does. Evil Sir Mix-a-lot does not, but does not tell the truth, so says that he does. Thus, they must both say that they do.)
Sir Mix-a-lot must say yes to (Q), since he always tells the truth. Evil Sir Mix-a-lot must say no to (Q), since he never tells the truth.
posted by el_lupino at 11:39 AM on May 7, 2021 [3 favorites]
Q: "Would your brother give the same answer you did about liking big butts?"
(Our model presumes bivalence. They would both say that they do like big butts. Sir Mix-a-lot does, and tells the truth that he does. Evil Sir Mix-a-lot does not, but does not tell the truth, so says that he does. Thus, they must both say that they do.)
Sir Mix-a-lot must say yes to (Q), since he always tells the truth. Evil Sir Mix-a-lot must say no to (Q), since he never tells the truth.
posted by el_lupino at 11:39 AM on May 7, 2021 [3 favorites]
By metafilter's own™ moonmilk back in 2013:
Sir Mix-a-lot likes big butts and cannot lie. His twin brother does not like big butts and cannot tell the truth. You may ask one question.posted by autopilot at 11:49 AM on May 7, 2021 [4 favorites]
I like logic puzzles, and I cannot lie (about that), but maybe not in this thread?
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:50 AM on May 7, 2021
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:50 AM on May 7, 2021
Sometimes I feel like I exist in a parallel world.
No, Metafilter, valuing women exclusively for their bodies is not empowering. There is not a single line in that song about the woman's character, humor, intelligence, good deeds, compatible perspectives, etc. She is seen as a visual object, period. The fact that he likes big butts and itty bitty waists instead of small butts and itty bitty waists is a tiny twist on the same old shit.
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 2:41 PM on May 7, 2021 [11 favorites]
No, Metafilter, valuing women exclusively for their bodies is not empowering. There is not a single line in that song about the woman's character, humor, intelligence, good deeds, compatible perspectives, etc. She is seen as a visual object, period. The fact that he likes big butts and itty bitty waists instead of small butts and itty bitty waists is a tiny twist on the same old shit.
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 2:41 PM on May 7, 2021 [11 favorites]
Seconding May Kasahara re: "Posse On Broadway."
Also, I must mention my own personal favorite Mix-A-Lot track, "My Hooptie", which anyone who's ever had a beater car can identify with.
posted by Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagoner at 2:41 PM on May 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
Also, I must mention my own personal favorite Mix-A-Lot track, "My Hooptie", which anyone who's ever had a beater car can identify with.
posted by Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagoner at 2:41 PM on May 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
My anaconda don't
My anaconda don't
[dlnm] double linked nicki minaj
posted by otherchaz at 2:54 PM on May 7, 2021
My anaconda don't
[dlnm] double linked nicki minaj
posted by otherchaz at 2:54 PM on May 7, 2021
I get your point, but
If you go back to the 70's, you'll hear music gods Queen informing everyone that Fat Bottomed Girls yt make the rockin' world go round.
This was essentially a novelty track in my California suburbs.
And while the funky Commodores seemed to think that lettin' it all hang out at 36-24-36 made one built like a Brick...House
I like how they leave room for the word "shit," but for some reason calling it out never became part of the crowd response? It would probably get played less often at weddings if it did, but like "Super Freak" I'm not sure it belongs at family events among people who don't know the words.
, the hard rock boys from Australia meanwhile sang the praises of 42-39-56 as being a Whole Lotta Rosie yt ; you could say she's got it all!
This song's lack of American significance in body positivity is directly related to it being sung in a foreign language.
posted by rhizome at 4:07 PM on May 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
If you go back to the 70's, you'll hear music gods Queen informing everyone that Fat Bottomed Girls yt make the rockin' world go round.
This was essentially a novelty track in my California suburbs.
And while the funky Commodores seemed to think that lettin' it all hang out at 36-24-36 made one built like a Brick...House
I like how they leave room for the word "shit," but for some reason calling it out never became part of the crowd response? It would probably get played less often at weddings if it did, but like "Super Freak" I'm not sure it belongs at family events among people who don't know the words.
, the hard rock boys from Australia meanwhile sang the praises of 42-39-56 as being a Whole Lotta Rosie yt ; you could say she's got it all!
This song's lack of American significance in body positivity is directly related to it being sung in a foreign language.
posted by rhizome at 4:07 PM on May 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
So beauty ideals change over time, and I've been aware for a while that larger female butts were becoming more accepted (and even esteemed). (For example, I feel like I see more ads and Instagram "influencer" types promising to tell women how to get a bigger butt, which is certainly a change from the 90s.)
But I'm slightly surprised that this change is now so complete that someone had to ask "wait, did people really think that big butts were bad once upon a time?"
Just goes to show how arbitrary beauty ideals are, of course. I still don't understand what they're for.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:51 PM on May 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
But I'm slightly surprised that this change is now so complete that someone had to ask "wait, did people really think that big butts were bad once upon a time?"
Just goes to show how arbitrary beauty ideals are, of course. I still don't understand what they're for.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:51 PM on May 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
I have a big butt, it's a family thing. My brothers have big butts too. In 1992 I lived on the Lower East Side of Manhattan. In my circles thin women were prized, but yeah I think it was still the era of the Supermodel. I kind of liked that song at first, because I did like the idea that my body type was appreciated, but then that summer men were endlessly telling my boyfriend how they noticed his girlfriend had back, like "Hey! Congrats Dude!" I wasn't even mad, just kind of WTF?!?! on so many levels.
Occasionally if I was on my own some man would tell me, almost with an air of surprise, that I had a big butt. But mostly it was a congratulatory side chat with my boyfriend, who to be fair was just as bemused as I was.
That only lasted for as long as the song was popular. It was not an empowering time.
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:47 PM on May 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
Occasionally if I was on my own some man would tell me, almost with an air of surprise, that I had a big butt. But mostly it was a congratulatory side chat with my boyfriend, who to be fair was just as bemused as I was.
That only lasted for as long as the song was popular. It was not an empowering time.
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:47 PM on May 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
Did not realize until today that My Hooptie was also S. M-A-L.
Also remembered that there was one Black student in one of the schools I attended, so my previous description of “all-white” was not 100% accurate.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:06 PM on May 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
Also remembered that there was one Black student in one of the schools I attended, so my previous description of “all-white” was not 100% accurate.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:06 PM on May 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
Just goes to show how arbitrary beauty ideals are, of course. I still don't understand what they're for.
They're for Capitalism and Patriarchy.
Capitalism first sells women the idea that their bodies are unacceptable, and then sells them the "fixes". You can't keep selling the same fixes indefinitely, the market becomes saturated at some point. So, you sell diets and diet pills and cellulite creams and then a while later you sell butt implants and butt-enhancing workout programs.
You sell men on the idea that they have to have a woman-thing who looks the right way, to enhance their own status.
Patriarchy benefits by sapping women's power as they funnel much of it into looking "right"-- it takes time and effort and money to pursue bigger/smaller body parts, straighter/curlier/longer/different colored hair, the right fashion, no body hair, lighter/tanner skin, the right makeup to cover their unacceptable faces, and always younger younger younger appearance.
What could women accomplish if they redirected this energy? What could we accomplish as a culture if we listened to what old/fat/ugly women have to say? If we valued women for something other than how they look?
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 7:12 PM on May 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
They're for Capitalism and Patriarchy.
Capitalism first sells women the idea that their bodies are unacceptable, and then sells them the "fixes". You can't keep selling the same fixes indefinitely, the market becomes saturated at some point. So, you sell diets and diet pills and cellulite creams and then a while later you sell butt implants and butt-enhancing workout programs.
You sell men on the idea that they have to have a woman-thing who looks the right way, to enhance their own status.
Patriarchy benefits by sapping women's power as they funnel much of it into looking "right"-- it takes time and effort and money to pursue bigger/smaller body parts, straighter/curlier/longer/different colored hair, the right fashion, no body hair, lighter/tanner skin, the right makeup to cover their unacceptable faces, and always younger younger younger appearance.
What could women accomplish if they redirected this energy? What could we accomplish as a culture if we listened to what old/fat/ugly women have to say? If we valued women for something other than how they look?
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 7:12 PM on May 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
P.S. I am nearly 48 and I have seen this stuff improve not a bit during my lifetime, in fact with the selfie culture it may have gotten worse.
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 7:18 PM on May 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 7:18 PM on May 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
I am going to gently put out there that an intersectional read on this is very necessary. The song is about Black women and white women, in total, are not going to see it through the same lens. That doesn't mean all Black women feel the same way about it, but they do all have a perspective that white women do not.
posted by nakedmolerats at 7:22 PM on May 7, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by nakedmolerats at 7:22 PM on May 7, 2021 [13 favorites]
At the time, he was doing a lot of interviews talking about how he made the song as a reaction to racism about body types in modeling and music videos. I can't find anything from back then, but check out this 2014 oral history of the song: "You’d see these girls in the ad: Each one was shaped like a stop sign, with big hair [and] straight up-and-down bird legs. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I was so sick of that shit. Now, Amy never said anything about all this until she realized I was so in favor of her physique. She was an actress, and she started admitting that she felt like she lost a lot of parts because of her hourglass figure. I knew for a fact that many artists felt that if they didn’t use a skinny-model-type woman in their video, then mainstream America would reject the song."
I wonder what Jonathan Coulton's excuse is.
posted by fuzz at 12:30 AM on May 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
I wonder what Jonathan Coulton's excuse is.
posted by fuzz at 12:30 AM on May 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
Steatopygia and Sarah Baartman are two subjects that must be included in this discussion...The first is a condition which evolved in Africa a very long time ago. In which African women stored unusual amounts of fat in their bodies especially on their butt. These women were able to survive much better in the hunter gatherer environment and hence were more desirable.
The second was a African woman with the condition who was tricked into becoming a freak displayed in Europe in the 19th century. (Where big butts were in style).
posted by shnarg at 2:44 AM on May 8, 2021
The second was a African woman with the condition who was tricked into becoming a freak displayed in Europe in the 19th century. (Where big butts were in style).
posted by shnarg at 2:44 AM on May 8, 2021
the fact that the opening bars of this song pass the Bechdel test is kind of amazing
IIRC only Becky is named, so it doesn't pass.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 6:49 AM on May 8, 2021
IIRC only Becky is named, so it doesn't pass.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 6:49 AM on May 8, 2021
« Older The Man of the Circular Ruins | GIANT TROLLS (no, not of the Internet variety) Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:32 PM on May 6, 2021 [14 favorites]