The origin of COVID
May 7, 2021 7:39 AM Subscribe
Journalist Nicholas Wade, for the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists: The origin of COVID: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box at Wuhan?
“...It later turned out that the Lancet letter had been organized and drafted by Peter Daszak, president of the EcoHealth Alliance of New York. Daszak’s organization funded coronavirus research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. If the SARS2 virus had indeed escaped from research he funded, Daszak would be potentially culpable. This acute conflict of interest was not declared to the Lancet’s readers. To the contrary, the letter concluded, 'We declare no competing interests.'"
“...It later turned out that the Lancet letter had been organized and drafted by Peter Daszak, president of the EcoHealth Alliance of New York. Daszak’s organization funded coronavirus research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. If the SARS2 virus had indeed escaped from research he funded, Daszak would be potentially culpable. This acute conflict of interest was not declared to the Lancet’s readers. To the contrary, the letter concluded, 'We declare no competing interests.'"
This post was deleted for the following reason: This post will likely cause harm and the intention/aim is ambiguous. Also, the mentioned source is a known scientific racist, I do not see much productive conversation/good coming from this. -- travelingthyme
Every person who is Asian, looks Asian, or has friends who are Asian, has a conflicting interest here, because this finding of fact, even if true, is going to be the fuel for a lot more racist violence. So the conflict of interest Dr. Daszak has doesn't interest me much.
MY options and duties in regard to the virus are the same regardless of its origin: maintain physical distance, mask up, get the shot, try to help the people the pandemic is hitting harder than it's hitting me. Ascribing blame doesn't help me in any way.
FWIW, I remain convinced it has a natural origin: 1. it's happened before, with SARS-1 and MERS, and probably many prior pandemics. 2. it happens with other classes of virus all the time. 3. If there was a contamination at the Wuhan lab, that means conditions there were compromised enough to ruin all their research. Every lab test result is suspect. For months prior to that fateful month in 2019. This stuff is hard, and researchers know that bad technique places their work at risk. So no, it's still more likely to be a farmer gathering bat guano from the wrong cave.
posted by ocschwar at 7:50 AM on May 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
MY options and duties in regard to the virus are the same regardless of its origin: maintain physical distance, mask up, get the shot, try to help the people the pandemic is hitting harder than it's hitting me. Ascribing blame doesn't help me in any way.
FWIW, I remain convinced it has a natural origin: 1. it's happened before, with SARS-1 and MERS, and probably many prior pandemics. 2. it happens with other classes of virus all the time. 3. If there was a contamination at the Wuhan lab, that means conditions there were compromised enough to ruin all their research. Every lab test result is suspect. For months prior to that fateful month in 2019. This stuff is hard, and researchers know that bad technique places their work at risk. So no, it's still more likely to be a farmer gathering bat guano from the wrong cave.
posted by ocschwar at 7:50 AM on May 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
It's worth mentioning here that Nicholas Wade is a "scientific" racist, who has written a book that (among other things) argues Chinese people have a genetic propensity for conformity and deference to authority. His book was widely panned by academic and scientific reviewers, and I see no reason that his thoughts on a debunked and racialized conspiracy theory shouldn't be presumptively dismissed.
posted by rishabguha at 7:53 AM on May 7, 2021 [24 favorites]
posted by rishabguha at 7:53 AM on May 7, 2021 [24 favorites]
ocschwar: "Every person who is Asian, looks Asian, or has friends who are Asian, has a conflicting interest here, because this finding of fact, even if true, is going to be the fuel for a lot more racist violence. "
I agree with this. I also think that at this point the "lab leak" hypothesis is going to gain in volume, not just for its racist, anti-China potential but also (and maybe even more pertinent) because it would conveniently cover up the real crime, which is 99% incompetent plague response from people, governments and companies pretty much everywhere.
To wrangle an inapt metaphor, of course a person smoking in bed can be the cause of a house on fire, but if the firefighters turn up late, faff around before doing anything, forget to bring jackets and helmets, and then spray gasoline on the blaze, part of the destruction is down to them, too.
posted by chavenet at 7:58 AM on May 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
I agree with this. I also think that at this point the "lab leak" hypothesis is going to gain in volume, not just for its racist, anti-China potential but also (and maybe even more pertinent) because it would conveniently cover up the real crime, which is 99% incompetent plague response from people, governments and companies pretty much everywhere.
To wrangle an inapt metaphor, of course a person smoking in bed can be the cause of a house on fire, but if the firefighters turn up late, faff around before doing anything, forget to bring jackets and helmets, and then spray gasoline on the blaze, part of the destruction is down to them, too.
posted by chavenet at 7:58 AM on May 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
There are questions still to be asked and answered about COVID-19's origins, for the historical record, and for future pandemic preparedness......
But not by this racist asshole tho.
posted by lalochezia at 8:00 AM on May 7, 2021 [4 favorites]
But not by this racist asshole tho.
posted by lalochezia at 8:00 AM on May 7, 2021 [4 favorites]
ocschwar: you’re probably right, but I wonder how much racists care about actual facts. I mean, it seems like they mostly believe whatever outrageous bullshit conforms to their fucked up worldview.
posted by thedamnbees at 8:14 AM on May 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by thedamnbees at 8:14 AM on May 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
"Every person who is Asian, looks Asian, or has friends who are Asian, has a conflicting interest here,
I find this wording really hard to get my head around, I guess, because I've long lived in a region (and particularly a part of town) that is filled with people who are Asian, who look Asian, or have friends who are Asian. My landlord and housemate is Asian (Chinese to be specific, parents from Hong Kong). My oldest DJ friend who I still constantly argue music genres with is Asian (Chinese to be specific, parents were on the wrong side of Mao's madness back in the 1950s and got the hell out). And so on. It's never once occurred to me to wonder if they or someone they know might somehow be even remotely connected with Covid-19 and its origins. It's an absurd thought. It's insane.
But I guess that's racism, isn't it?
posted by philip-random at 8:19 AM on May 7, 2021
I find this wording really hard to get my head around, I guess, because I've long lived in a region (and particularly a part of town) that is filled with people who are Asian, who look Asian, or have friends who are Asian. My landlord and housemate is Asian (Chinese to be specific, parents from Hong Kong). My oldest DJ friend who I still constantly argue music genres with is Asian (Chinese to be specific, parents were on the wrong side of Mao's madness back in the 1950s and got the hell out). And so on. It's never once occurred to me to wonder if they or someone they know might somehow be even remotely connected with Covid-19 and its origins. It's an absurd thought. It's insane.
But I guess that's racism, isn't it?
posted by philip-random at 8:19 AM on May 7, 2021
It doesn't matter where this shit came from. As the world gets more vibrant and diverse, the diseases are going to follow suit; and as the world gets smaller due to travel, the diseases are going to spread faster.
The only thing that matters is how we respond, with science or with fear.
Science is a weapon rationalists can use against fear, and fear is a weapon the authoritarians can use against the populace.
This is the core problem with humanity.
I don't reckon we'll ever solve it, not really, because as a species we're just smart enough to survive in the world, but no smarter (because we don't need to be; and evolution doesn't favour useless expenses of resources). Only if it becomes more evolutionarily important to be rational than afraid will we truly evolve into an enlightened species.
Dunno how to get there.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:22 AM on May 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
The only thing that matters is how we respond, with science or with fear.
Science is a weapon rationalists can use against fear, and fear is a weapon the authoritarians can use against the populace.
This is the core problem with humanity.
I don't reckon we'll ever solve it, not really, because as a species we're just smart enough to survive in the world, but no smarter (because we don't need to be; and evolution doesn't favour useless expenses of resources). Only if it becomes more evolutionarily important to be rational than afraid will we truly evolve into an enlightened species.
Dunno how to get there.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:22 AM on May 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
I mean, it seems like they mostly believe whatever outrageous bullshit conforms to their fucked up worldview.
Well sure, confirmation bias is definitely a thing. What differs with fringe ideas is that as you get farther away from the norm, you have to dig all the way down to the "outrageous bullshit" layers of society to find anything that confirms your terrible beliefs.
posted by ensign_ricky at 8:26 AM on May 7, 2021
Well sure, confirmation bias is definitely a thing. What differs with fringe ideas is that as you get farther away from the norm, you have to dig all the way down to the "outrageous bullshit" layers of society to find anything that confirms your terrible beliefs.
posted by ensign_ricky at 8:26 AM on May 7, 2021
Not a virologist, so I would like someone to answer this question:
Is there any difference is our response preventing spread if it it man-made?
Like I said, not an expert, but my gut is "no" - so all that fanning the flames of this borderline-conspriract theory does is make a convinient scapegoat.
posted by Paladin1138 at 8:27 AM on May 7, 2021
Is there any difference is our response preventing spread if it it man-made?
Like I said, not an expert, but my gut is "no" - so all that fanning the flames of this borderline-conspriract theory does is make a convinient scapegoat.
posted by Paladin1138 at 8:27 AM on May 7, 2021
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posted by timdiggerm at 7:43 AM on May 7, 2021 [1 favorite]