How Washington Got Hooked on Flying Saucers
May 24, 2021 12:23 PM Subscribe
The threat narrative was a brilliant bit of framing, turning a story of poltergeist hunters battling a cabal of demon-believers into a national security issue.
But the real story isn’t disclosure, and it’s stranger than any UFO sighting. Behind the creamy pages of high-end magazines and the marble columns of the Capitol, the media elite and Congress are being played by a small, loosely connected group of people with bizarre ideas about science. It’s easy to dismiss UFOs as a fantasy or a fad, but the money, the connections, and the power wielded by a group of UFO believers—embedded in the defense industry and bent on supplanting material science with a pseudoscientific mysticism straight from the History Channel’s Ancient Aliens—poses a danger to America more real than a flying saucer.
But the real story isn’t disclosure, and it’s stranger than any UFO sighting. Behind the creamy pages of high-end magazines and the marble columns of the Capitol, the media elite and Congress are being played by a small, loosely connected group of people with bizarre ideas about science. It’s easy to dismiss UFOs as a fantasy or a fad, but the money, the connections, and the power wielded by a group of UFO believers—embedded in the defense industry and bent on supplanting material science with a pseudoscientific mysticism straight from the History Channel’s Ancient Aliens—poses a danger to America more real than a flying saucer.
Bigelow leveraged his friendship with Democratic Nevada Senator Harry Reid, who thought Bigelow to be “brilliant” and who received tens of thousands in campaign donations from him
Same as it ever was. Not all that different from taking money from the guy with the big congregation selling bullshit stories, I guess.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:44 PM on May 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
Same as it ever was. Not all that different from taking money from the guy with the big congregation selling bullshit stories, I guess.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:44 PM on May 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
I read this article the other day. It's mega snarky. There have been numerous articles lately about the recent UFO wave of reporting, basically saying it's not what it appears to be for various reasons.
posted by Liquidwolf at 12:45 PM on May 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Liquidwolf at 12:45 PM on May 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
The idea that tic tacs are products of human technology seems a far scarier propositon to me than aliens. Especially as they allegedly have been detected moving that fast underwater. If not aliens and not ours, than whose? There is something to lose sleep over.
posted by y2karl at 1:06 PM on May 24, 2021
posted by y2karl at 1:06 PM on May 24, 2021
I recently had to walk back a retweet I posted, re ufos, when one of my friends kindly pointed me towards sources about what a lunatic fringe that poster belonged to. I’m not at my system, and can’t remember his name, but he’s one of the main proponents of the theory that recently released DOD files on ufos say things they don’t really say. He also claims to have been a lead ufo researcher for the US government, but there’s no record of that being a true statement either. It’s bugging me that I can’t remember his name.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:07 PM on May 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:07 PM on May 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
I recently had to walk back a retweet I posted, re ufos, when one of my friends kindly pointed me towards sources about what a lunatic fringe that poster belonged to. I’m not at my system, and can’t remember his name, but he’s one of the main proponents of the theory that recently released DOD files on ufos say things they don’t really say. He also claims to have been a lead ufo researcher for the US government, but there’s no record of that being a true statement either. It’s bugging me that I can’t remember his name.
Luis Elizondo?
posted by Liquidwolf at 1:16 PM on May 24, 2021
Do you remember "the flying rods" everyone was seeing in new digital phptography?
The imagery turned out to be the tracers of birds in flight. The new technology picked up more than the old. So anyway, my immediate family has a guy discussing UFOs harvesting a certain kind of water out of storm clouds. There is Gordon Cooper's book "Leap of Faith" which discusses a pair of engineers watching a UFO relatively close up on the Malad River in northern Utah. They designed copies of what they saw, and Cooper flew them, tethered in a barn in Tremonton, Utah. My dad insisted on me reading the book, while saying the Air Force Blue Book had nothing. It is all interesting, but until...The last time I was followed for a long time by a light in the rearview, out in the middle of the road out to Delta, in a March, it turned out to be Jupiter, low on the eastern horizon.
posted by Oyéah at 1:39 PM on May 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
The imagery turned out to be the tracers of birds in flight. The new technology picked up more than the old. So anyway, my immediate family has a guy discussing UFOs harvesting a certain kind of water out of storm clouds. There is Gordon Cooper's book "Leap of Faith" which discusses a pair of engineers watching a UFO relatively close up on the Malad River in northern Utah. They designed copies of what they saw, and Cooper flew them, tethered in a barn in Tremonton, Utah. My dad insisted on me reading the book, while saying the Air Force Blue Book had nothing. It is all interesting, but until...The last time I was followed for a long time by a light in the rearview, out in the middle of the road out to Delta, in a March, it turned out to be Jupiter, low on the eastern horizon.
posted by Oyéah at 1:39 PM on May 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
The threat narrative was a brilliant bit of framing, turning a story of poltergeist hunters battling a cabal of demon-believers into a national security issue. ... UFOs, newly relevant as a security threat, are only the vanguard of a larger effort to undo the failure of Stargate and elevate spirit over matter. It’s bad science and dangerous as government policy, the kind of magical thinking that leads to lunacy and disaster.
So, Trump-level politics but for DoDefense. Nice.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:41 PM on May 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
So, Trump-level politics but for DoDefense. Nice.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:41 PM on May 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
The New Yorker recently covered some of this history too.
posted by diogenes at 1:45 PM on May 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 1:45 PM on May 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
If the Pentagon is suddenly speaking up about UFOs, then what is it doing right now that it doesn't want us to see?
This type of thinking is common on /r/conspiracy -- basically, it amounts to EVERYTHING in the news is a distraction from (insert very bad scary thing that is being covered up). Epstein is a distraction from COVID, COVID is a distraction from UFOs, UFOs are a distraction from Reptilians, Reptilians are a distraction from...and so on and so on and so on...
posted by davidmsc at 1:53 PM on May 24, 2021 [18 favorites]
This type of thinking is common on /r/conspiracy -- basically, it amounts to EVERYTHING in the news is a distraction from (insert very bad scary thing that is being covered up). Epstein is a distraction from COVID, COVID is a distraction from UFOs, UFOs are a distraction from Reptilians, Reptilians are a distraction from...and so on and so on and so on...
posted by davidmsc at 1:53 PM on May 24, 2021 [18 favorites]
The thing I most appreciated in the New Yorker article hits right at the top, with people talking about UFOs in the late '40s. How do we know potential alien visits aren't a potential threat? Because if they're advanced enough to travel all the way here and operate like this, they absolutely could've and would have wrecked us if they cared to do so. They haven't, so there's not a lot of reason to consider them a threat.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:55 PM on May 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:55 PM on May 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
I mean, it comes back to the Fermi Paradox, right? Maybe they're sticklers for the Prime Directive, but no human civilization ever has been toward a quote-endquote less advanced society. (Even in Trek, it seems to be honored more in the breach.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:04 PM on May 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:04 PM on May 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
Ultimately the problem with trying to guess much of anything about aliens is that we have only ourselves as a frame of reference. We're completely speculating about everything from evolutionary paths to cultural values and norms, and any given alien species might think those concepts are silly nonsense to begin with.
But, going with what we've got? It's super worth studying whatever we can, but I'm not seeing a reason to panic. Not if it really is aliens, anyway.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:16 PM on May 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
But, going with what we've got? It's super worth studying whatever we can, but I'm not seeing a reason to panic. Not if it really is aliens, anyway.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:16 PM on May 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
I'm pretty sure if there were advanced intelligent life in the universe they would have us blocked already.
posted by srboisvert at 2:37 PM on May 24, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 2:37 PM on May 24, 2021 [13 favorites]
Bigelow leveraged his friendship with Democratic Nevada Senator Harry Reid, who thought Bigelow to be “brilliant” and who received tens of thousands in campaign donations from him.LOL
Reid and two other senators moved to expand the Skinwalker Ranch investigation into a fully funded government program, despite the Pentagon’s complete lack of interest in UFOs or space spooks, mandating that the military research “aerial threats” at a cost of $22 million over five years. Bigelow, the only bidder, received the contract to research these “threats.”You can almost admire the transparent corruption and grift except it's our money these Senators are giving away to their campaign donors.
posted by star gentle uterus at 2:41 PM on May 24, 2021 [14 favorites]
This excellent article helps expose these UFO-promoters for who they are: A new kind of anti-science fundamentalist, not aligned with anything anyone could recognize as progressive in research or politics. The whole science fiction, fantasy drift of our culture is deeply reactionary. There is no "science" in science fiction, and belief in advanced civilizations brings us no closer to having an advanced civilization on earth.
posted by Modest House at 3:14 PM on May 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Modest House at 3:14 PM on May 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
"There is no "science" in science fiction, and belief in advanced civilizations brings us no closer to having an advanced civilization on earth."
....ok, then? I wasn't aware this was the sole, stated purpose of buying in to the idea that in an infinitely large universe, we aren't the only sentient life.
posted by jordantwodelta at 3:30 PM on May 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
....ok, then? I wasn't aware this was the sole, stated purpose of buying in to the idea that in an infinitely large universe, we aren't the only sentient life.
posted by jordantwodelta at 3:30 PM on May 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
mega snarky - indeed. The author snarls at everything that moves.
It's not "Tom DeLonge of Blink-182," but "fading rock star Tom DeLonge of Blink-182."
The folks the author doesn't like are "Team Space Ghost."
And sloshing snark in all directions: "The Huffington Post was exactly the kind of second-tier pop culture media like Rolling Stone, Politico, and Joe Rogan’s podcast that TTSA courted at first, lacking connections at more elite publications."
Which is a curious style for the topic. Is the goal to dissuade UFO fans by humiliating them, or just to score points by mockery?
posted by doctornemo at 3:38 PM on May 24, 2021 [8 favorites]
It's not "Tom DeLonge of Blink-182," but "fading rock star Tom DeLonge of Blink-182."
The folks the author doesn't like are "Team Space Ghost."
And sloshing snark in all directions: "The Huffington Post was exactly the kind of second-tier pop culture media like Rolling Stone, Politico, and Joe Rogan’s podcast that TTSA courted at first, lacking connections at more elite publications."
Which is a curious style for the topic. Is the goal to dissuade UFO fans by humiliating them, or just to score points by mockery?
posted by doctornemo at 3:38 PM on May 24, 2021 [8 favorites]
I don’t understand how anyone with a working bullshit meter thinks, huh, that video is weird, maybe it IS aliens. Like, aliens visiting the earth and being hidden by the government is right up there with homeopathic remedies and ghostbusters. Men In Black is just a movie ...
posted by freecellwizard at 3:58 PM on May 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by freecellwizard at 3:58 PM on May 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
doctornemo, Jason Colavito has been in this business for a very long time, and has been smeared a few times for his troubles; I think if you've been, say, reviewing Ancient Aliens for more than a few episodes, you're going to start to have a bone to pick with people who maybe aren't so aware of how utterly stupid this all is.
His blog is well worth a read; he's got an book about James Dean coming relatively soon that should be interesting.
Count me in who as a person who is extremely skeptical of anything coming out of Bigelow and Tom DeLonge's work.
posted by sagc at 4:04 PM on May 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
His blog is well worth a read; he's got an book about James Dean coming relatively soon that should be interesting.
Count me in who as a person who is extremely skeptical of anything coming out of Bigelow and Tom DeLonge's work.
posted by sagc at 4:04 PM on May 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
The author snarls at everything that moves.
I agree with you, doctornemo. The style is a heavy-handed attempt to copy the once fresh-seeming putdown style of early 21st century journalism. But the substance of the story is worth pondering, despite the half-baked jabs and japes.
posted by Modest House at 4:21 PM on May 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
I agree with you, doctornemo. The style is a heavy-handed attempt to copy the once fresh-seeming putdown style of early 21st century journalism. But the substance of the story is worth pondering, despite the half-baked jabs and japes.
posted by Modest House at 4:21 PM on May 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
That snark leads the author to miss all kinds of key bits of the story.
For example, "The threat narrative was a brilliant bit of framing, turning a story of poltergeist hunters battling a cabal of demon-believers into a national security issue." The threat is actually a major way for the military to look at UFOs. Because unidentified things flying around US airspace *is* a potential threat.
Or seeing this as an act of religious fanaticism nigh unto theocracy misses the well known fact that many, many pilots (among others) report having seen UFOs, but were told not to share because of professional and personal discipline.
Zeroing in on (and mocking) the beliefs of a handful of men misses outside forces which shaped their beliefs. Think of the New Age movement coming out of the 1960s, for example, or how bad info persuaded the Pentagon that the USSR was already into psychic warfare. I'm amazed the author doesn't dive into how the Discovery and Hitler cable channels and Oprah have been churning out paranormal stuff, or that we're in a new and enormous wave of folk interest in weird topics from cryptid hunts to paranormal romance. Established religions and new religious movements are absent from the discussion.
In short, the author's climactic description of evil plans is much scarier if you aren't thinking how much of this is already happening:
the deeper transformation its advocates want to bring about: Puthoff and his colleagues seek to delegitimize material science in favor of a magical, neo-medieval view of reality founded on spirit—or, in their terms, “consciousness” and psychic powers.
If he wants us to see the Pentagram leading the country into a Jacque Vallee theocracy... he'll need more evidence than some media buzz.
posted by doctornemo at 4:24 PM on May 24, 2021 [11 favorites]
For example, "The threat narrative was a brilliant bit of framing, turning a story of poltergeist hunters battling a cabal of demon-believers into a national security issue." The threat is actually a major way for the military to look at UFOs. Because unidentified things flying around US airspace *is* a potential threat.
Or seeing this as an act of religious fanaticism nigh unto theocracy misses the well known fact that many, many pilots (among others) report having seen UFOs, but were told not to share because of professional and personal discipline.
Zeroing in on (and mocking) the beliefs of a handful of men misses outside forces which shaped their beliefs. Think of the New Age movement coming out of the 1960s, for example, or how bad info persuaded the Pentagon that the USSR was already into psychic warfare. I'm amazed the author doesn't dive into how the Discovery and Hitler cable channels and Oprah have been churning out paranormal stuff, or that we're in a new and enormous wave of folk interest in weird topics from cryptid hunts to paranormal romance. Established religions and new religious movements are absent from the discussion.
In short, the author's climactic description of evil plans is much scarier if you aren't thinking how much of this is already happening:
the deeper transformation its advocates want to bring about: Puthoff and his colleagues seek to delegitimize material science in favor of a magical, neo-medieval view of reality founded on spirit—or, in their terms, “consciousness” and psychic powers.
If he wants us to see the Pentagram leading the country into a Jacque Vallee theocracy... he'll need more evidence than some media buzz.
posted by doctornemo at 4:24 PM on May 24, 2021 [11 favorites]
sagc, I appreciate the extra background.
If people (who?) have attacked Colavito (how?), I can see how this could make him bitter, as a person. So now I see this article less as persuasion and more as a defensive argument.
I think if you've been, say, reviewing Ancient Aliens for more than a few episodes, you're going to start to have a bone to pick with people who maybe aren't so aware of how utterly stupid this all is.
Does that mean the author will be ticked off not only with "Team Spaceghost" but the millions of people who love stories about the akashic record, amorous werewolves, touch-happy angels, ghosts and ghost hunters?
posted by doctornemo at 4:41 PM on May 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
If people (who?) have attacked Colavito (how?), I can see how this could make him bitter, as a person. So now I see this article less as persuasion and more as a defensive argument.
I think if you've been, say, reviewing Ancient Aliens for more than a few episodes, you're going to start to have a bone to pick with people who maybe aren't so aware of how utterly stupid this all is.
Does that mean the author will be ticked off not only with "Team Spaceghost" but the millions of people who love stories about the akashic record, amorous werewolves, touch-happy angels, ghosts and ghost hunters?
posted by doctornemo at 4:41 PM on May 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
I mean, kinda? He's written books debunking several of those subjects, and makes persuasive arguments that they do often work hand-in-hand with more overtly conservative conspiratorial thinking.
I also like Arthur from the former Ferretbrain's reviews of various counterculture/conspiracy/UFO books - he's very good at tracing just how these ideas have been evolved, who's benefited from them, and just how incestuous this community is.
posted by sagc at 4:52 PM on May 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
I also like Arthur from the former Ferretbrain's reviews of various counterculture/conspiracy/UFO books - he's very good at tracing just how these ideas have been evolved, who's benefited from them, and just how incestuous this community is.
posted by sagc at 4:52 PM on May 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
Fran Blanche's reaction includes a great Carl Sagan Flatland reference that I think is worth a gander.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 5:01 PM on May 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 5:01 PM on May 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
I keep recommending this in all these UFO threads but if anyone is interested in the weird history of the exploitation of the UFO phenomenon during the Cold War and beyond, check out Mirage Men. It's critical but open minded and get into much deeper territory, and it's not automatically dismissive and cranky like this article.
posted by Liquidwolf at 5:02 PM on May 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Liquidwolf at 5:02 PM on May 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
You say interdimensional space demons; I say self-aware AI's using backdoors in their simulation. Or maybe then we'd be the AI's?
posted by eagles123 at 5:14 PM on May 24, 2021
posted by eagles123 at 5:14 PM on May 24, 2021
Silly, thought it was a post Warsaw Pact screaming liquid shark skin Doppler box supersonic drone-o-marine liquid cooled jetpack.
like season 4, ep.1 of 'The Expanse' when the whirling razornados went ripping I said: 'What the Fuck is that'
"ibid"
that's good writing.
posted by clavdivs at 5:21 PM on May 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
like season 4, ep.1 of 'The Expanse' when the whirling razornados went ripping I said: 'What the Fuck is that'
"ibid"
that's good writing.
posted by clavdivs at 5:21 PM on May 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
Sometimes I wish I was an extraterrestrial visiting Earth so I could nonchalantly point to some of these videos and say "Nope, that's not us. Transphasic hyperwarp gigaspace drives glow purple and pulse at 87.45Hz and it's the wrong time of year for the transports to arrive anyway. It's probably some camera distortion".
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:32 PM on May 24, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:32 PM on May 24, 2021 [6 favorites]
Mick West has provided the most comprehensive debunkings of these "UFO" sightings I've found so far.
The Pyramid UFOs, featured on 60 Minutes, are just the result of the camera aperture shape on the nightvision camera and the camera being out of focus. The aliens are flashing FAA mandated landing lights and are in the flight path of LAX.
He's covered most of the released videos on his channel at this playlist.
posted by interogative mood at 5:33 PM on May 24, 2021 [21 favorites]
The Pyramid UFOs, featured on 60 Minutes, are just the result of the camera aperture shape on the nightvision camera and the camera being out of focus. The aliens are flashing FAA mandated landing lights and are in the flight path of LAX.
He's covered most of the released videos on his channel at this playlist.
posted by interogative mood at 5:33 PM on May 24, 2021 [21 favorites]
Thanks, sagc.
Like I've said in other UFO threads, I think the UFO tent is broad enough to cover a wide (and wild) range of politics.
posted by doctornemo at 6:44 PM on May 24, 2021
Like I've said in other UFO threads, I think the UFO tent is broad enough to cover a wide (and wild) range of politics.
posted by doctornemo at 6:44 PM on May 24, 2021
Look, I just want to see some aliens before I die. :(
posted by pelvicsorcery at 7:40 PM on May 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by pelvicsorcery at 7:40 PM on May 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
I've tried to develop a theory about why ufology exists and is attractive to so many people by comparing it to ancient mythologies. The idea is that it is a way for humans to explain the origins of the earth and life, and to provide a framework for concepts like fate. In other words, early humans came up with the Titans, Yahweh and others like them, but, to satisfy the same needs, we modern humans have conjured up extraterrestrials. The parallels work fairly well with the ancient alien concept and I think modern day visitations fit the fate and other mysteries of life ideas. I think it would be a fascinating perspective to explore and wish I had the background in psychology and comparative religions to flesh it out properly.
posted by double bubble at 9:03 PM on May 24, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by double bubble at 9:03 PM on May 24, 2021 [6 favorites]
Zeroing in on (and mocking) the beliefs of a handful of men misses outside forces which shaped their beliefs. Think of the New Age movement coming out of the 1960s, for example, or how bad info persuaded the Pentagon that the USSR was already into psychic warfare. I'm amazed the author doesn't dive into how the Discovery and Hitler cable channels and Oprah have been churning out paranormal stuff, or that we're in a new and enormous wave of folk interest in weird topics from cryptid hunts to paranormal romance. Established religions and new religious movements are absent from the discussion.
This is a key insight. Part of the greatness of Close Encounters of the Third Kind is that it captures the folk character of the UFO movement.
I think the closest 19th & 20th Century parallel to the UFO movement is spiritualism, which welled up from the bottom and had many progressive and positive aspects, including abolitionism, concern for women's rights, and opposition to the ongoing genocide the US committed against Native Americans.
posted by jamjam at 9:37 PM on May 24, 2021 [7 favorites]
This is a key insight. Part of the greatness of Close Encounters of the Third Kind is that it captures the folk character of the UFO movement.
I think the closest 19th & 20th Century parallel to the UFO movement is spiritualism, which welled up from the bottom and had many progressive and positive aspects, including abolitionism, concern for women's rights, and opposition to the ongoing genocide the US committed against Native Americans.
posted by jamjam at 9:37 PM on May 24, 2021 [7 favorites]
Jason Colavito has been in this business for a very long time
It strikes me that there's even a weird level of symbiosis here: without UFO enthusiasts....would Jason Colavito even exist? By definition, debunkers require something to debunk.
posted by gimonca at 4:23 AM on May 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
It strikes me that there's even a weird level of symbiosis here: without UFO enthusiasts....would Jason Colavito even exist? By definition, debunkers require something to debunk.
posted by gimonca at 4:23 AM on May 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
This article itself has a bizarre aftertaste. There's no direct takedown of the military footage that's gotten so much media coverage. Instead, there are a lot of so-and-so-knew-so-and-so connections traced between people, sometimes in a very tenuous way, and where the common thread might only be that they're persons the writer would perceive as being ideological opponents. Those opponents are then gathered together into an "invisible college" that, apparently, we're supposed to be afraid of. The term pre-dates both the participants and the debunkers, but the author wields it as a way to demonize people he, for whatever reason, want to frame as a danger. They're in the government! They don't want you to know!
There might have been a pro-UFO report with no solid basis that was suppressed as an embarrassment. Harry Reid may have wasted taxpayer money chasing after nothing. But the narrative arc of the whole article? There's the same structure here that you see in Pizzagate.
posted by gimonca at 4:25 AM on May 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
There might have been a pro-UFO report with no solid basis that was suppressed as an embarrassment. Harry Reid may have wasted taxpayer money chasing after nothing. But the narrative arc of the whole article? There's the same structure here that you see in Pizzagate.
posted by gimonca at 4:25 AM on May 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
The Mick West videos linked by interrogative mood earlier are superb. Not just because of the work that went into them -- you get the good info right away. They're simple and easy to understand--and more interesting than the UFO narrative itself in many cases. It's very satisfying to watch them.
And, you might even become a better photographer, if that's something you like.
(And, the narrator doesn't spend half an hour droning on about how smart he is and how stupid his opponents are. I don't have time for that.)
posted by gimonca at 4:44 AM on May 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
And, you might even become a better photographer, if that's something you like.
(And, the narrator doesn't spend half an hour droning on about how smart he is and how stupid his opponents are. I don't have time for that.)
posted by gimonca at 4:44 AM on May 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
>There's no direct takedown of the military footage that's gotten so much media coverage.
Well, that's a different genre, no? For example, it is helpful to have someone debunking the arguments made by global warming deniers, but it is also helpful to have someone tracing and making clear the money and political connections that explain why these arguments are so prominent. The UFO/UAP videos that have had so much press lately have been pretty conclusively debunked already - seconding the recommendation for Mike West's YouTube channel - but we keep seeing them, so the real question naturally becomes why is that?
Side note, two things tend to get blurred together in these threads. There are (1)people talking as though UFOs must be extraterrestrials on Earth and there are (2) people talking as though recent UFOs might be drones doing strange things, either drones from 'China' or drones from some US black op or something. The first has all sorts of familiar problems, the other may be plausible. The thing is, there isn't any evidence in these videos for either one - so far all the prominent videos are just camera artefacts or commercial airlines.
posted by Ktm1 at 5:05 AM on May 25, 2021 [5 favorites]
Well, that's a different genre, no? For example, it is helpful to have someone debunking the arguments made by global warming deniers, but it is also helpful to have someone tracing and making clear the money and political connections that explain why these arguments are so prominent. The UFO/UAP videos that have had so much press lately have been pretty conclusively debunked already - seconding the recommendation for Mike West's YouTube channel - but we keep seeing them, so the real question naturally becomes why is that?
Side note, two things tend to get blurred together in these threads. There are (1)people talking as though UFOs must be extraterrestrials on Earth and there are (2) people talking as though recent UFOs might be drones doing strange things, either drones from 'China' or drones from some US black op or something. The first has all sorts of familiar problems, the other may be plausible. The thing is, there isn't any evidence in these videos for either one - so far all the prominent videos are just camera artefacts or commercial airlines.
posted by Ktm1 at 5:05 AM on May 25, 2021 [5 favorites]
I'm amazed the author doesn't dive into how the Discovery and Hitler cable channels and Oprah have been churning out paranormal stuff, or that we're in a new and enormous wave of folk interest in weird topics from cryptid hunts to paranormal romance.
My dad in his retirement spends far too much time watching Fox News and the "History" Channel, which means Ancient Aliens.
Before the election he told me Trump was going to reveal new weapons technology from aliens, and new "Med Beds" (also from aliens) that could heal anything. Apparently this is some Qanon bullshit that floats around a photo of the high tech medical bed from the Matt Damon movie Elysium.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:16 AM on May 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
My dad in his retirement spends far too much time watching Fox News and the "History" Channel, which means Ancient Aliens.
Before the election he told me Trump was going to reveal new weapons technology from aliens, and new "Med Beds" (also from aliens) that could heal anything. Apparently this is some Qanon bullshit that floats around a photo of the high tech medical bed from the Matt Damon movie Elysium.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:16 AM on May 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
There's no direct takedown of the military footage that's gotten so much media coverage.
Debunkers note that two of the most famous radar footage examples happened shortly after the radar software had received a major update.
(I'm paraphrasing from a vaguely remembered section of the New Yorker article.)
It does seem plausible that "looking" at things through complex software could result in the occasional bug that results in odd effects like "it was moving impossibly fast."
posted by diogenes at 5:24 AM on May 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Debunkers note that two of the most famous radar footage examples happened shortly after the radar software had received a major update.
(I'm paraphrasing from a vaguely remembered section of the New Yorker article.)
It does seem plausible that "looking" at things through complex software could result in the occasional bug that results in odd effects like "it was moving impossibly fast."
posted by diogenes at 5:24 AM on May 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
The point isn't that the 'takedown' evidence doesn't exist, it does, it's excellent, and it's linked from this discussion. The point was about the author's choices and direction.
posted by gimonca at 6:05 AM on May 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by gimonca at 6:05 AM on May 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
The Pyramid UFOs, featured on 60 Minutes, are just the result of the camera aperture shape on the nightvision camera and the camera being out of focus.
I remember watching a television program in the 1990s which pointed out that pyramid or diamond-shaped UFOs only started appearing after the introduction of consumer camcorders with a similarly-shaped aperture and lousy autofocus. Combine bokeh with a high altitude airplane just after sunset and boom...instant UFO.
The aliens are flashing FAA mandated landing lights and are in the flight path of LAX.
On the other hand, that's really considerate of the aliens to follow our human regulations. The last thing we need is an accident in such a busy airspace.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:06 AM on May 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
I remember watching a television program in the 1990s which pointed out that pyramid or diamond-shaped UFOs only started appearing after the introduction of consumer camcorders with a similarly-shaped aperture and lousy autofocus. Combine bokeh with a high altitude airplane just after sunset and boom...instant UFO.
The aliens are flashing FAA mandated landing lights and are in the flight path of LAX.
On the other hand, that's really considerate of the aliens to follow our human regulations. The last thing we need is an accident in such a busy airspace.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:06 AM on May 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
I've tried to develop a theory about why ufology exists and is attractive to so many people by comparing it to ancient mythologies...
double bubble, have you checked out Jung's odd little book on UFOs? You might find it useful.
posted by doctornemo at 7:42 AM on May 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
double bubble, have you checked out Jung's odd little book on UFOs? You might find it useful.
posted by doctornemo at 7:42 AM on May 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
Apparently this is some Qanon bullshit that floats around a photo of the high tech medical bed from the Matt Damon movie Elysium.
Fleebnork, there's also a countermovement within the Q-verse. Looks like some believe UFOs are now just a distraction.
posted by doctornemo at 7:47 AM on May 25, 2021
Fleebnork, there's also a countermovement within the Q-verse. Looks like some believe UFOs are now just a distraction.
posted by doctornemo at 7:47 AM on May 25, 2021
My god, it’s full of bokeh!
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 7:55 AM on May 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 7:55 AM on May 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
The level of "snark" is completely justified as is the absence of a "takedown" debunking. I don't know if it is due to the waxing and waning of some sort of cultural cycle but we seem to be in an environment where irrational and destructive thought patterns are at a high level and acceptance of and tolerance for them is as well. The last time I felt this queasy was back during the ritual satanic abuse/daycare panic in the 80s. I used to enjoy the Art Bell kind of kookiness but now I realize to some extent I was taking for granted that the vast majority of people were "in on the joke." I come to realize that there is no joke and something about human cognition just wants to believe fantastical shit the way a compulsive gambler wants to believe in luck instead of statistics.
posted by Pembquist at 10:23 AM on May 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Pembquist at 10:23 AM on May 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
Pembquist, do you see this very recent spate of interest in UFOs as the problem, or do you see it as a symptom of a broader social embrace of what you call "irrational and destructive thought patterns"?
posted by doctornemo at 9:12 AM on May 26, 2021
posted by doctornemo at 9:12 AM on May 26, 2021
doctornemo, that sounds exactly like what I’m looking for. How have I never heard of this book?!?! Thank you! (This is why I love this place)
posted by double bubble at 9:50 AM on May 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by double bubble at 9:50 AM on May 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
Doctornemo I see it as a symptom of a broader social embrace in general and specifically as an example of the corrupting influence of the ready market for confabulation in the face of a rising desire for explanations that are not moored in evidence or fact but rather serve principally to soothe the anxiety provoked by change.
I have observed, within myself and others, a sort of cognitive bias wherein a more complicated and unusual explanation is somehow more satisfying and gains more traction than a more pedestrian one, a this is often so even when the more complex requires leaps of faith to bridge an absence of anything resembling theory or fact, even to the point of requiring undue skepticism of the patently obvious. I believe that this human trait can act as rocket fuel for the campaigns, (political, financial, whatever,) of mendacious actors. Indulging in credulity for the sake of eyeballs as a journalist or political currency as an institution is hazardous to our society's health.
posted by Pembquist at 11:39 AM on May 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
I have observed, within myself and others, a sort of cognitive bias wherein a more complicated and unusual explanation is somehow more satisfying and gains more traction than a more pedestrian one, a this is often so even when the more complex requires leaps of faith to bridge an absence of anything resembling theory or fact, even to the point of requiring undue skepticism of the patently obvious. I believe that this human trait can act as rocket fuel for the campaigns, (political, financial, whatever,) of mendacious actors. Indulging in credulity for the sake of eyeballs as a journalist or political currency as an institution is hazardous to our society's health.
posted by Pembquist at 11:39 AM on May 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
Fantasy that's simple and powerful, good at soothing some anxieties while stoking others?
posted by doctornemo at 12:52 PM on May 26, 2021
posted by doctornemo at 12:52 PM on May 26, 2021
Project Blue Book started a few years before the first flew the US (i.e. a control sample was obtained) and ended about the time the really knew what they wanted about the SR-71 A.
The SR-72 takes to the skies in a couple years.
Probably just a coincidence.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 3:58 PM on May 27, 2021
The SR-72 takes to the skies in a couple years.
Probably just a coincidence.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 3:58 PM on May 27, 2021
Fantasy that's simple and powerful, good at soothing some anxieties while stoking others?
I don't think I would use the word "simple" but I do think the word "simplifying" would be good. I would say that what happens is that a vague miasma of dread is reduced and focused to something coherent and understandable. Not necessarily simple, (conspiracy theories are often quite baroque,) but certainly easier to understand and tolerate than the eternal absurdities of life.
Maybe one way to look at it, especially with regard to "stoking", is not so much that new anxieties are produced but rather by giving a focus to what is otherwise a sort of generalized sense of anxiety the prospect of a solution is dangled, perhaps a solution thwarted by malevolent forces, unjust forces; the desire for the destruction or punishment of these forces then is easily stoked by constant recursion along the train of thought that produces the simplifying fantasy. What was once a diffuse sense of things being wrong with no acceptable explanation is replaced by a schema(?) with a prospect for a utopian resolution, often with powerful echoes of purification and moral redemption.
When I read this I realize integrating the UFO phenomena into this line of though is maybe not as clear as say the ascendance of Hitler and the Jews can be. I believe it to be the same thing though. When I think of the times I have wished dearly for there to be a god it is always in times of grief or fear. The desire for the workings of the universe to be at the behest of some entity with agency grows with the strain of reconciling the disparate couplets of desire and thwarting, living and the prospect of death, fairness and its total absence, etc. etc. How many times have people demanded that there be a point to a loss? Meaning in "sacrifice?" A reason beyond pure randomness? To me this suggests strongly that the motivation for rejecting the, (often straight forward,) factual explanation of any phenomena, be it you lost the war because your economy was exhausted and on the verge of collapse or the UFO's you see are flights into LAX combined with your imagination, and instead turn toward the fantastic, (International Jewry etc, aliens/malign state actors/mystery,) is the same though less direct. One seems akin to a spiritual explanation of 500 year tsunamis while the other is more of a distraction from malaise. Both fulfill the need to construct meaning and that is what makes them powerful and potentially dangerous.
posted by Pembquist at 6:08 PM on May 27, 2021
I don't think I would use the word "simple" but I do think the word "simplifying" would be good. I would say that what happens is that a vague miasma of dread is reduced and focused to something coherent and understandable. Not necessarily simple, (conspiracy theories are often quite baroque,) but certainly easier to understand and tolerate than the eternal absurdities of life.
Maybe one way to look at it, especially with regard to "stoking", is not so much that new anxieties are produced but rather by giving a focus to what is otherwise a sort of generalized sense of anxiety the prospect of a solution is dangled, perhaps a solution thwarted by malevolent forces, unjust forces; the desire for the destruction or punishment of these forces then is easily stoked by constant recursion along the train of thought that produces the simplifying fantasy. What was once a diffuse sense of things being wrong with no acceptable explanation is replaced by a schema(?) with a prospect for a utopian resolution, often with powerful echoes of purification and moral redemption.
When I read this I realize integrating the UFO phenomena into this line of though is maybe not as clear as say the ascendance of Hitler and the Jews can be. I believe it to be the same thing though. When I think of the times I have wished dearly for there to be a god it is always in times of grief or fear. The desire for the workings of the universe to be at the behest of some entity with agency grows with the strain of reconciling the disparate couplets of desire and thwarting, living and the prospect of death, fairness and its total absence, etc. etc. How many times have people demanded that there be a point to a loss? Meaning in "sacrifice?" A reason beyond pure randomness? To me this suggests strongly that the motivation for rejecting the, (often straight forward,) factual explanation of any phenomena, be it you lost the war because your economy was exhausted and on the verge of collapse or the UFO's you see are flights into LAX combined with your imagination, and instead turn toward the fantastic, (International Jewry etc, aliens/malign state actors/mystery,) is the same though less direct. One seems akin to a spiritual explanation of 500 year tsunamis while the other is more of a distraction from malaise. Both fulfill the need to construct meaning and that is what makes them powerful and potentially dangerous.
posted by Pembquist at 6:08 PM on May 27, 2021
I unfortunately absolutely understand the clear frustration this topic seems to have pulled from this writer. In my reading of this though I see it less as merely trying to snark, and more as drawing a stark contrast in the reverence this topic elicits from the media (find something else that gets newscasters that giddy to speak about). Interviews are covering something complex by only interviewing known grifters, not pressing them at all... all because they were broken clocks. This MAY BE a national security issue… empowering, inauthentically interviewing mind control demon ghost hunter grifters (as the gullible q/trump kakistocracratic nexus displayed) is also dangerous to the nation. The uncritical nature of this coverage (which as always is opaque and contains so little of value) is highlighting and focusing on 5 people with deeply questionable involvement in a set of interests and they are not being open about that.
It seems worth noting the coverage of these grifters. This is not the ‘hah they always laughed but looks at the ‘Pentagon’ taking this seriously now - uncritical- ‘national security makes you someone to listen to’ - from Jake Tapper, WaPo, to Hannity of the perpetually professionally infuriated. This is not new to the world of national defence... check the authors Twitter, the military industrial complex taking these things seriously is not new, despite the current messaging.
For my work I stay up to date on current research, researchers and science communicators in many areas of anthropology (both physical and social), in aid of this, using a variety of social media I follow many people who practice anthropology- professors, grad students, researchers - and the amount of abuse, vitriolic certitudes, and straight up accusations of ‘hiding truth’ has always been present (Anthropology of course has roots in extremely problematic history - current operators are not even close to the old ways - Anthropology has evolved into one of the most progressive and expansive disciplines) - but the past ~12 years has exploded (certain regions of study endure differential hostility).
The Q adjacent white supremacy regime which has been given places at so many tables of discourse recently, a regime which is right next door to the white supremacy of the “aliens built everything older than the earliest thing a human with white skin built" - A message that Discovery, History and a variety of other channels put millions into brainwashing people about, in data-free ‘beautiful imagining’ of the past that steam rolls, reburies, deletes and continues to erase indigenous ingenuity.
There are millions of dollars of funding going into promoting (with slick media production dollars) the industry that is like white supremacist recruitment drugs - giving the praise for all ‘Civ’ (the evolution of 'complex' human societies) to aliens while all the ‘life actually kinda difficult and never works out easy’ downsides to ownership by what they might describe as the ‘deep state’/ufo-ners of the modern global mixed world (aka the same Capitalism that has been the product of human projects in empire).
I was recently watching a movie by Inuit activists (it's called angry Inuit) - this is like when ‘environmental activists’ went to the mat to kill the source of livelihood for indigenous hunters. There may be an issue there in all this... but that doesn't mean we have to credulously listen to the exact same people who are speaking with one face in these interviews, while saying very extreme things in other contexts (the media groups which are currently spending millions to create mass/widespread misunderstanding of what archaeology and anthropology have discovered.
More on the Q adjacency and grifter nature of the crux of this. There were issues with "entrenched powers in government for the past many decades" ... Q people got to take that and own it... and it was mutated into a sick bigoted vision of lost cause white exclusivity. They took over the government for 4 years, and implanted likeminded people in the courts for the next generation. They are now erasing indigenous action, history, the military, and science. Will we really just watch this time?
posted by infinite intimation at 3:13 AM on June 2, 2021
It seems worth noting the coverage of these grifters. This is not the ‘hah they always laughed but looks at the ‘Pentagon’ taking this seriously now - uncritical- ‘national security makes you someone to listen to’ - from Jake Tapper, WaPo, to Hannity of the perpetually professionally infuriated. This is not new to the world of national defence... check the authors Twitter, the military industrial complex taking these things seriously is not new, despite the current messaging.
For my work I stay up to date on current research, researchers and science communicators in many areas of anthropology (both physical and social), in aid of this, using a variety of social media I follow many people who practice anthropology- professors, grad students, researchers - and the amount of abuse, vitriolic certitudes, and straight up accusations of ‘hiding truth’ has always been present (Anthropology of course has roots in extremely problematic history - current operators are not even close to the old ways - Anthropology has evolved into one of the most progressive and expansive disciplines) - but the past ~12 years has exploded (certain regions of study endure differential hostility).
The Q adjacent white supremacy regime which has been given places at so many tables of discourse recently, a regime which is right next door to the white supremacy of the “aliens built everything older than the earliest thing a human with white skin built" - A message that Discovery, History and a variety of other channels put millions into brainwashing people about, in data-free ‘beautiful imagining’ of the past that steam rolls, reburies, deletes and continues to erase indigenous ingenuity.
There are millions of dollars of funding going into promoting (with slick media production dollars) the industry that is like white supremacist recruitment drugs - giving the praise for all ‘Civ’ (the evolution of 'complex' human societies) to aliens while all the ‘life actually kinda difficult and never works out easy’ downsides to ownership by what they might describe as the ‘deep state’/ufo-ners of the modern global mixed world (aka the same Capitalism that has been the product of human projects in empire).
I was recently watching a movie by Inuit activists (it's called angry Inuit) - this is like when ‘environmental activists’ went to the mat to kill the source of livelihood for indigenous hunters. There may be an issue there in all this... but that doesn't mean we have to credulously listen to the exact same people who are speaking with one face in these interviews, while saying very extreme things in other contexts (the media groups which are currently spending millions to create mass/widespread misunderstanding of what archaeology and anthropology have discovered.
More on the Q adjacency and grifter nature of the crux of this. There were issues with "entrenched powers in government for the past many decades" ... Q people got to take that and own it... and it was mutated into a sick bigoted vision of lost cause white exclusivity. They took over the government for 4 years, and implanted likeminded people in the courts for the next generation. They are now erasing indigenous action, history, the military, and science. Will we really just watch this time?
Watkins is a popular figure in conspiracy circles and his embrace of aliens signals a wider shift in conspiracy culture. QAnon and alien conspiracies were already merging in 2019. When Trump caught COVID-19, a fringe theory said he was an immortal extraterrestrial shapeshifter who caught the disease as an elaborate ruse to throw the deep state off his trail. YouTube personality David Wilcox is selling salvation via UFO at $333.33 a pop.It is so hard to separate the natural interest in this topic... obviously it is super interesting, and has so much inside it with so many implications for basically all of existence... the nature of the universe, of life... but honestly at this time... it is impossible to ignore the vested interests and what they have stood for, how much the 'masses' of Q followers are not representative of some 'overturning of tyranny' they have been brainwashed to believe, but rather represent the desires of entrenched powers to restore their power to use 'lost cause white majoritarianism' to attempt to maintain power.
posted by infinite intimation at 3:13 AM on June 2, 2021
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posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:43 PM on May 24, 2021 [24 favorites]