A Death In Cryptoland
June 2, 2021 2:43 AM Subscribe
When the young CEO of Canada’s largest cryptocurrency exchange is reported to have died while honeymooning in India, it sets off a cataclysmic chain of events that would leave about 76,000 people out of a quarter of a billion dollars and a trail of conspiracy theories around whether Gerald Cotten is dead or alive.
1 - Upon checking into a luxury resort in India, Gerald Cotten complains to staff he’s feeling ill. He and his wife are taken to a hospital and within 24 hours the young CEO is declared dead. A month passes before word gets out to customers that QuadrigaCX’s CEO is gone — along with their money.
2 - QuadrigaCX collapses and there’s widespread panic. An online sleuth searches for answers through a tangle of websites, hidden identities and a trail of emails. He uncovers a pattern of deception that predates his exchange, linking Gerry to a shadowy underworld of fraudsters.
3 - Gerald Cotten and his business partner, Michael Patryn, launch QuadrigaCX on Boxing Day, 2013. There’s hype in the budding Bitcoin community and the small exchange seems to have a meteoric rise. But cracks begin to appear, problems with the banks, a software bug, and delays in paying back customers. Meanwhile, online rumours of a criminal past dog Michael Patryn.
4 - Despite Michael Patryn’s denials that he’s a fraudster named Omar Dhanani, customers’ aren’t buying it. They’re demanding proof. A mugshot. A secret service agent, a felon-turned podcaster, and a childhood friend tell the story of Omar, the man Michael insists he’s not.
Interestingly, this CBC podcast got pipped to the post by two weeks by Aaron Lammer's Exit Scam, which covers the exact same subject, but with a more indie production. I haven't listened to either but clearly it's a hot topic.
posted by adrianhon at 4:06 AM on June 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by adrianhon at 4:06 AM on June 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
For anyone else who isn't particularly a fan of podcasts and would rather read an article about this: Here's one in Vanity Fair.
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 4:15 AM on June 2, 2021 [30 favorites]
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 4:15 AM on June 2, 2021 [30 favorites]
I'll add this (and Exit Scam, thanks Adrianhon) to my podcast list! This is a very interesting topic to me.
posted by Braeburn at 4:30 AM on June 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Braeburn at 4:30 AM on June 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
What's that you say? Crypto at the heart of another scam? I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!
posted by Thorzdad at 4:44 AM on June 2, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 4:44 AM on June 2, 2021 [18 favorites]
CBC also published this as a longform essay.
posted by oulipian at 5:11 AM on June 2, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by oulipian at 5:11 AM on June 2, 2021 [9 favorites]
a felon-turned podcaster
It's podcasts all the way down.
posted by gwint at 6:23 AM on June 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
It's podcasts all the way down.
posted by gwint at 6:23 AM on June 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
The BBC's The Missing Cryptoqueen is another great podcast on the subject of scams in cryptocurrency, though it's not about the scam in this FPP.
posted by msbrauer at 6:29 AM on June 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by msbrauer at 6:29 AM on June 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
During this research, QCX-INT also found a handful of websites linked to Cotten that offered a proxy service that would reroute a user's internet connection so that their IP address would be hidden — websites with names like Cloakedproxy.com and HowdoIhidemyip.com. It appears he was creating sites that helped other people disguise themselves in the digital space.
Kind of ironic that services like these are now pretty normalized and ads run everywhere about using them for general security/privacy reasons and even to watch Netflix in other countries. I'm sure running a VPN service still has it's potential issues, but it seems way more legit and stable than running a crypto-currency exchange.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:45 AM on June 2, 2021
Kind of ironic that services like these are now pretty normalized and ads run everywhere about using them for general security/privacy reasons and even to watch Netflix in other countries. I'm sure running a VPN service still has it's potential issues, but it seems way more legit and stable than running a crypto-currency exchange.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:45 AM on June 2, 2021
So did they exhume Cotten's body?
posted by slater at 7:09 AM on June 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by slater at 7:09 AM on June 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
What's that you say? Crypto at the heart of another scam? I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!
Yes, one would have never seen such malfeasance if they had just stuck to using cash, credit cards, or checks!
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 7:10 AM on June 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yes, one would have never seen such malfeasance if they had just stuck to using cash, credit cards, or checks!
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 7:10 AM on June 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yes, one would have never seen such malfeasance if they had just stuck to using cash, credit cards, or checks!You misspelled “the regulated banking sector”. The reason why these are so common in the cryptocurrency space is that scammers can go a lot further before they hit an audit. Every so often something like a Madoff scam happens but it’s less common because it’s harder to do and the various regulatory requirements make it more likely that someone will go to jail – that’s why cryptocurrency became so popular in the first place.
posted by adamsc at 7:32 AM on June 2, 2021 [17 favorites]
"We should've dug deeper than a grave."
posted by praemunire at 7:38 AM on June 2, 2021
posted by praemunire at 7:38 AM on June 2, 2021
Kind of ironic that services like these are now pretty normalized and ads run everywhere about using them for general security/privacy reasons and even to watch Netflix in other countries. I'm sure running a VPN service still has it's potential issues, but it seems way more legit and stable than running a crypto-currency exchange.
The risk awareness that VPN consumers should probably do more often is being aware that the security and privacy benefits are provisional and probabilistic more than anything inherent. It's still routing all your internet traffic through a private entity, and that private entity can pretty much look at everything just as an ISP can for non-VPN traffic. They could archive all the data, analyze it, sell it, or more; if a malicious actor did run a VPN, they get a lot of access. Adds things like being aware where a VPN provider is hosted, and who's running it. Perception of trust is important. (I'm remembering a year or more ago, the VPN provider Private Internet Access got acquired by a company who was previously known for including spyware in its offerings, and obviously took a trust hit from it.)
To rerail, learning a crypto guy's behind a VPN provider would be an immediate disqualifier to ever using it, because scamming practically (even if not letter-of-law literally) criminal behavior in crypto stories happen like clockwork.
posted by Drastic at 7:41 AM on June 2, 2021 [5 favorites]
The risk awareness that VPN consumers should probably do more often is being aware that the security and privacy benefits are provisional and probabilistic more than anything inherent. It's still routing all your internet traffic through a private entity, and that private entity can pretty much look at everything just as an ISP can for non-VPN traffic. They could archive all the data, analyze it, sell it, or more; if a malicious actor did run a VPN, they get a lot of access. Adds things like being aware where a VPN provider is hosted, and who's running it. Perception of trust is important. (I'm remembering a year or more ago, the VPN provider Private Internet Access got acquired by a company who was previously known for including spyware in its offerings, and obviously took a trust hit from it.)
To rerail, learning a crypto guy's behind a VPN provider would be an immediate disqualifier to ever using it, because scamming practically (even if not letter-of-law literally) criminal behavior in crypto stories happen like clockwork.
posted by Drastic at 7:41 AM on June 2, 2021 [5 favorites]
I have a feeling that, if I invented a currency named scam-o-coin, there would be enough people embracing it that I would be an instant millionaire and would only need to figure out how to sneak out the back door.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:47 AM on June 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:47 AM on June 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
One of these days "Satoshi" "Nakamoto" is going to cash out and I am going to laugh for weeks.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:10 AM on June 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:10 AM on June 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
I have a feeling that, if I invented a currency named scam-o-coin, there would be enough people embracing it that I would be an instant millionaire and would only need to figure out how to sneak out the back door.
too late
posted by Dr. Twist at 8:53 AM on June 2, 2021 [10 favorites]
too late
posted by Dr. Twist at 8:53 AM on June 2, 2021 [10 favorites]
Its A Bold Strategy Cotten, Lets See If It Pays Off For Him
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 8:54 AM on June 2, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 8:54 AM on June 2, 2021 [5 favorites]
One of these days "Satoshi" "Nakamoto" is going to cash out and I am going to laugh for weeks.Isn't he in jail?
posted by fullerine at 8:57 AM on June 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
One of these days "Satoshi" "Nakamoto" is going to cash out and I am going to laugh for weeks.
One of these days "Satoshi" "Nakamoto" is going to be revealed as an NSA/government intelligence project and I am going to laugh for weeks.
posted by star gentle uterus at 9:19 AM on June 2, 2021 [8 favorites]
One of these days "Satoshi" "Nakamoto" is going to be revealed as an NSA/government intelligence project and I am going to laugh for weeks.
posted by star gentle uterus at 9:19 AM on June 2, 2021 [8 favorites]
A Ponzi scheme could cause health hazards, if certain investors are owed and not paid out promptly. But perhaps they misspelled Crohn's on his death certificate as Coin's?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:00 AM on June 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:00 AM on June 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
That dude is, like, 1000% not actually dead.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:34 AM on June 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by jacquilynne at 10:34 AM on June 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
if I invented a currency named scam-o-coin, there would be enough people embracing it that I would be an instant millionaire
If you're going to do that, please do it on a modern blockchain that doesn't waste electricity.
posted by flabdablet at 10:56 AM on June 2, 2021
If you're going to do that, please do it on a modern blockchain that doesn't waste electricity.
posted by flabdablet at 10:56 AM on June 2, 2021
The problem with cryptocurrency is that it is untraceable and stored electronically, which invites unbelievable levels of cybercrime and fraud.
It is like trying to run a gold trading business that operates through the mail. You are just asking to have your mail deliveries stolen and delivery and storage companies taken over by criminals.
posted by eye of newt at 12:02 PM on June 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
It is like trying to run a gold trading business that operates through the mail. You are just asking to have your mail deliveries stolen and delivery and storage companies taken over by criminals.
posted by eye of newt at 12:02 PM on June 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
this is a fatuous contribution and I'm not directing this at eye of newt specifically
but it just struck me that the 'cyber' prefix seems kind of quaint all of a sudden.
posted by elkevelvet at 1:33 PM on June 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
but it just struck me that the 'cyber' prefix seems kind of quaint all of a sudden.
posted by elkevelvet at 1:33 PM on June 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
So the gist of what they are saying is that the CEO was the only one with the private keys, so all the coins are stuck/lost forever. Have any coins moved from that wallet since? I'd imagine multiple people and orgs are watching that wallet and would sound the alarm the second 0.00000001 moves from it.
Dead/not dead I don't see how they could get any value from these funds without immediately showing that they were lying?
posted by mincus at 1:46 PM on June 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
Dead/not dead I don't see how they could get any value from these funds without immediately showing that they were lying?
posted by mincus at 1:46 PM on June 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
The problem with cryptocurrency is that it is untraceable
It's really not.
Cryptocurrency can be made difficult to trace, but there's absolutely no reason why a legitimate business could not make its cryptocurrency acceptance public keys well-known so that any amount sent their way remained forever provably sent their way; the public ledger created by a blockchain is effectively a global shoebox full of payment receipts that can't go missing. If I'm operating a legitimate business that accepts cryptocurrency payments, my direct reputational interest is served by not playing silly buggers with my cryptocurrency account keys, and maintaining a stable payment target address over time.
There is nothing inherent in cryptocurrency payments per se that makes them more fraud-prone than any other kind of direct electronic funds transfer. In particular, the way transactions get raised is much safer with a cryptocurrency than with, for example, a debit card. With a debit card, I essentially hand over the keys to my account and invite the vendor to take whatever they think is right from it at any time from then into the distant future. With cryptocurrency it's the payer, not the payee, who gets to decide the existence and size of every transaction. If you "steal" my cryptocurrency public key, the only thing you can do with that is pay me.
If people would rather insert a trusted intermediary payment processor like Visa or PayPal, in order to provide some post-payment grace period during which refunds are available from the payment processor should the vendor fail to deliver satisfactorily, there's no reason at all why the transactions in and out of the intermediary couldn't be done using cryptocurrency every bit as safely and traceably and provably and easily than could be done with dollars. Probably cheaper too.
I have dealt with many legitimate businesses that run an ordering model where I place an order and then log onto my own bank's website and push funds directly into the business's account, no credit card provider or payment processor involved, and then they process my order and ship me the goods. Working this way with a business I have reason to trust typically saves me about two percent in transaction processing fees. There's no reason at all why those transactions would be any less safe if done using cryptocurrency instead of bank transfers.
Cryptocurrencies vs dollars doesn't need to make any difference to the safety of dealing with legitimate businesses. If people are having money stolen from them it's because they're trusting in dodgy businesses (MtGox and Lehman Brothers both spring to mind), not because cryptocurrency is inherently unsafe.
posted by flabdablet at 1:59 PM on June 2, 2021 [7 favorites]
It's really not.
Cryptocurrency can be made difficult to trace, but there's absolutely no reason why a legitimate business could not make its cryptocurrency acceptance public keys well-known so that any amount sent their way remained forever provably sent their way; the public ledger created by a blockchain is effectively a global shoebox full of payment receipts that can't go missing. If I'm operating a legitimate business that accepts cryptocurrency payments, my direct reputational interest is served by not playing silly buggers with my cryptocurrency account keys, and maintaining a stable payment target address over time.
There is nothing inherent in cryptocurrency payments per se that makes them more fraud-prone than any other kind of direct electronic funds transfer. In particular, the way transactions get raised is much safer with a cryptocurrency than with, for example, a debit card. With a debit card, I essentially hand over the keys to my account and invite the vendor to take whatever they think is right from it at any time from then into the distant future. With cryptocurrency it's the payer, not the payee, who gets to decide the existence and size of every transaction. If you "steal" my cryptocurrency public key, the only thing you can do with that is pay me.
If people would rather insert a trusted intermediary payment processor like Visa or PayPal, in order to provide some post-payment grace period during which refunds are available from the payment processor should the vendor fail to deliver satisfactorily, there's no reason at all why the transactions in and out of the intermediary couldn't be done using cryptocurrency every bit as safely and traceably and provably and easily than could be done with dollars. Probably cheaper too.
I have dealt with many legitimate businesses that run an ordering model where I place an order and then log onto my own bank's website and push funds directly into the business's account, no credit card provider or payment processor involved, and then they process my order and ship me the goods. Working this way with a business I have reason to trust typically saves me about two percent in transaction processing fees. There's no reason at all why those transactions would be any less safe if done using cryptocurrency instead of bank transfers.
Cryptocurrencies vs dollars doesn't need to make any difference to the safety of dealing with legitimate businesses. If people are having money stolen from them it's because they're trusting in dodgy businesses (MtGox and Lehman Brothers both spring to mind), not because cryptocurrency is inherently unsafe.
posted by flabdablet at 1:59 PM on June 2, 2021 [7 favorites]
My impression is the money is probably already gone -- that Quadriga was more of a ponzie scheme / slush fund for Cotten's personal expenses than an actual cryptocurrency exchange. So there isn't anything to watch now, because the dirty transactions already happened.
posted by jacquilynne at 2:03 PM on June 2, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 2:03 PM on June 2, 2021 [5 favorites]
What's that you say? Crypto at the heart of another scam? I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!
Well...
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:36 PM on June 2, 2021
Well...
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:36 PM on June 2, 2021
If I was any of these dudes I'd be researching ways to disappear, posthaste from the get-go.
Quadriga was more of a ponzie scheme / slush fund for Cotten's personal expenses than an actual cryptocurrency exchange
Yeah, I'd do my embezzling before I made the leap to (hopefully!) anonymity.
posted by rhizome at 5:55 PM on June 2, 2021
Quadriga was more of a ponzie scheme / slush fund for Cotten's personal expenses than an actual cryptocurrency exchange
Yeah, I'd do my embezzling before I made the leap to (hopefully!) anonymity.
posted by rhizome at 5:55 PM on June 2, 2021
Cryptocurrency scam stories have really taken the place of EVE:Online betrayal stories, haven’t they?
posted by gauche at 5:59 PM on June 2, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by gauche at 5:59 PM on June 2, 2021 [9 favorites]
My understanding is that most of the QuadrigaCX money was gambled away or used to buy houses and cars for Cotten and his wife. I hate to be a killjoy but if Cotten faked his death, he left his wife behind in Canada to have essentially all their assets returned to satisfy some portion of the company's customers. She reportedly agreed to return $12 million dollars of assets to QuadrigaCX as part of their bankruptcy proceedings. Not much of an exit scam.
posted by muddgirl at 7:36 PM on June 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by muddgirl at 7:36 PM on June 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
In particular, the way transactions get raised is much safer with a cryptocurrency than with, for example, a debit card. With a debit card, I essentially hand over the keys to my account and invite the vendor to take whatever they think is right from it at any time from then into the distant future.
I disagree. A central authority like a bank may have some ways to reverse a fraudulent transaction, or otherwise charge it back to party breaking a contract.
A cryptocurrency doesn't offer any sort of reversibility when things go wrong.
I'm not saying a bank or similar authority can always do it, but with a cryptocurrency by design you can never do it.
posted by edd at 6:27 AM on June 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
I disagree. A central authority like a bank may have some ways to reverse a fraudulent transaction, or otherwise charge it back to party breaking a contract.
A cryptocurrency doesn't offer any sort of reversibility when things go wrong.
I'm not saying a bank or similar authority can always do it, but with a cryptocurrency by design you can never do it.
posted by edd at 6:27 AM on June 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
You can if you choose to involve a central authority in your transactions. If for example Paypal decided tomorrow that it was going to process payments denominated in Stellar lumens as well as in all the national currencies it already supports, it would be able to do so while offering exactly the same entitlements and obligations to its counterparties as it does as present.
Or you can choose to perform your cryptocurrency transactions directly in a manner more akin to cash transactions, where the only way to get a payment back is to persuade the recipient to give it back. And if you do that, the fact that the blockchains do provide a permanent, searchable, public record of all transactions will actually help you if you need to enlist legal machinery in support of that persuasion; cryptocurrency is safer than physical cash in this mode.
And, as I said, there's an entire class of fraudulent transactions that cannot happen with cryptocurrencies because the only way to initiate a cryptocurrency transaction is for the holder of the private key to do it; there is no way for a vendor to do an equivalent of a fraudulent Visa card double-dip.
Swings and roundabouts.
posted by flabdablet at 6:54 AM on June 3, 2021
Or you can choose to perform your cryptocurrency transactions directly in a manner more akin to cash transactions, where the only way to get a payment back is to persuade the recipient to give it back. And if you do that, the fact that the blockchains do provide a permanent, searchable, public record of all transactions will actually help you if you need to enlist legal machinery in support of that persuasion; cryptocurrency is safer than physical cash in this mode.
And, as I said, there's an entire class of fraudulent transactions that cannot happen with cryptocurrencies because the only way to initiate a cryptocurrency transaction is for the holder of the private key to do it; there is no way for a vendor to do an equivalent of a fraudulent Visa card double-dip.
Swings and roundabouts.
posted by flabdablet at 6:54 AM on June 3, 2021
Paypal decided tomorrow that it was going to process payments denominated in Stellar lumens
We REALLY need a standard way to annotate "actual cryptocurrency" vs. "made up cryptocurrency and/or money from my favorite sci-fi universe".
posted by The Tensor at 1:33 PM on June 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
We REALLY need a standard way to annotate "actual cryptocurrency" vs. "made up cryptocurrency and/or money from my favorite sci-fi universe".
posted by The Tensor at 1:33 PM on June 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
forgive my ignorance.. are Stellar lumens bogus? I'm new to crypto, it all looks a bit bogus right now.. I'd guess BitCoin and Ethereum are legitimate currencies, as far as it goes? What makes a currency legitimate (or not)? I reached Episode 3 (Cryptoqueen, great recommendation upthread btw!) and this appears to have been a scam from the get-go (not even a blockchain foundation to it).
posted by elkevelvet at 1:56 PM on June 3, 2021
posted by elkevelvet at 1:56 PM on June 3, 2021
What makes a currency legitimate (or not)?
Whether or not you can pay taxes with it, traditionally. Failing that, can you pay rent & bills with it? Failing that, can you buy groceries with it?
[...]
Failing that, how many people have a vested financial interest in getting you to use it?
But as cryptocurrency goes, Stellar lumens are more-or-less Ethereum-tier, maybe one under there depending on who you ask. Less-blatantly-a-scam than a *lot* of them (going by cryptocurrency scoring), but not the biggest dog out there.
posted by CrystalDave at 2:04 PM on June 3, 2021
Whether or not you can pay taxes with it, traditionally. Failing that, can you pay rent & bills with it? Failing that, can you buy groceries with it?
[...]
Failing that, how many people have a vested financial interest in getting you to use it?
But as cryptocurrency goes, Stellar lumens are more-or-less Ethereum-tier, maybe one under there depending on who you ask. Less-blatantly-a-scam than a *lot* of them (going by cryptocurrency scoring), but not the biggest dog out there.
posted by CrystalDave at 2:04 PM on June 3, 2021
Stellar is also leading the pack when it comes to not wasting resources. Stellar's consensus mechanism isn't based on proof-of-work or any flavour of proof-of-consumption, so it doesn't burn stupid amounts of energy nor cause shortages of GPUs or hard drives, and nor does it rely on any variant of the potentially oligarchy-promoting proof-of-stake, and its transactions settle fast (seconds) and cost very close to nothing each.
And that is why I've chosen to confine the cryptocurrency branch of my own recreational gambling habit to this particular protocol's native coin. I think the design is the best available, and I think that in the fullness of time people might well figure that out and drive up the value of my holdings accordingly.
Bitcoin is the absolute worst of the energy-sucking proof-of-work currencies because its token price is currently so absurdly high. Ethereum isn't far behind. Neither is a thing I want anything to do with. But the complete disconnect between what people are prepared to pay for these things and any kind of real-world usability as an actual means of exchange is enough to convince me that Number Go Up is indeed an irrational expectation widespread enough to have an excellent chance of becoming self-sustaining.
Lots more altcoins are actually implemented on the Ethereum blockchain using an Ethereum smart contract schema called ERC-20. All of these inherit Ethereum's currently ridiculous energy consumption. Stellar was designed to allow anybody to issue their own currencies on it at any time, and the process for doing so is less fiddly than Ethereum's, so with any luck all the ERC-20 alts will shrivel and die as we all join hands and march singing into the Stellar sunlit uplands.
Cryptocurrency is too interesting an idea to be permanently saddled with its currently mostly well deserved reputation as a criminally wasteful energy sink.
posted by flabdablet at 2:39 PM on June 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
And that is why I've chosen to confine the cryptocurrency branch of my own recreational gambling habit to this particular protocol's native coin. I think the design is the best available, and I think that in the fullness of time people might well figure that out and drive up the value of my holdings accordingly.
Bitcoin is the absolute worst of the energy-sucking proof-of-work currencies because its token price is currently so absurdly high. Ethereum isn't far behind. Neither is a thing I want anything to do with. But the complete disconnect between what people are prepared to pay for these things and any kind of real-world usability as an actual means of exchange is enough to convince me that Number Go Up is indeed an irrational expectation widespread enough to have an excellent chance of becoming self-sustaining.
Lots more altcoins are actually implemented on the Ethereum blockchain using an Ethereum smart contract schema called ERC-20. All of these inherit Ethereum's currently ridiculous energy consumption. Stellar was designed to allow anybody to issue their own currencies on it at any time, and the process for doing so is less fiddly than Ethereum's, so with any luck all the ERC-20 alts will shrivel and die as we all join hands and march singing into the Stellar sunlit uplands.
Cryptocurrency is too interesting an idea to be permanently saddled with its currently mostly well deserved reputation as a criminally wasteful energy sink.
posted by flabdablet at 2:39 PM on June 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
This opens up a fascinating discussion on payment conventions in general.. perhaps one of the most valuable parts to the cryptocurrency topic: it exposes the systems that we largely ignore, because they just "are." This is my money, here is my bank, this is how it works.
a) It's legitimate when I can use it to pay for the things I want and/or need to do (taxes, groceries, etc.)
b) A lot of people have a vested financial interest in how or whether I use any number of 'conventional' banking tools presently. Quite apart from the question of the US$ in global trade.. I can't help but think we are about to tip over the edge, where the standard we've been used to (I'd guess all of us here, all of our lives) will change in our lifetimes.
posted by elkevelvet at 2:41 PM on June 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
a) It's legitimate when I can use it to pay for the things I want and/or need to do (taxes, groceries, etc.)
b) A lot of people have a vested financial interest in how or whether I use any number of 'conventional' banking tools presently. Quite apart from the question of the US$ in global trade.. I can't help but think we are about to tip over the edge, where the standard we've been used to (I'd guess all of us here, all of our lives) will change in our lifetimes.
posted by elkevelvet at 2:41 PM on June 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
The world is full of interesting ideas that fall fatally short of being practicable. Just ask R. Buckminster Fuller.
posted by acb at 3:20 AM on June 4, 2021
posted by acb at 3:20 AM on June 4, 2021
The world is also full of interesting solutions awaiting the discovery of matching problems. Just look at lasers.
posted by flabdablet at 4:09 AM on June 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 4:09 AM on June 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
The world is also full of interesting solutions awaiting the discovery of matching problems. Just look at lasers.
With my remaining eye, you mean?
posted by notoriety public at 10:33 AM on June 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
With my remaining eye, you mean?
posted by notoriety public at 10:33 AM on June 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
Just look at lasers.
Or leaded gas!
posted by notoriety public at 10:35 AM on June 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Or leaded gas!
posted by notoriety public at 10:35 AM on June 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
All this led to diving in more - the next investment palace desiderata for crypto-folk is now to be “DeFi” -
-clearly it’s the billionaires world we just (temporarily) live in it. Billionaires are betting on this stuff and investing their non taxable debt into these currently stratospheric packages -one, they then have the ‘settlers advantage’ on the next century, or two, it all collapses and the public is on the hook for the collapse of their ‘side businesses’ which are then insolvent.
posted by infinite intimation at 4:53 PM on June 8, 2021
The Total Value Locked (TVL) in DeFi protocols on Terra is more than $SOL, $AVAX, $ONT, $NEO, $FTM & $ZIL COMBINED. While $LUNA still has a market cap about 1/10 of these other blockchains, it has managed to attract far more capital into its ecosystem.
$BTC $ETH $MIR $ANC $UST
-clearly it’s the billionaires world we just (temporarily) live in it. Billionaires are betting on this stuff and investing their non taxable debt into these currently stratospheric packages -one, they then have the ‘settlers advantage’ on the next century, or two, it all collapses and the public is on the hook for the collapse of their ‘side businesses’ which are then insolvent.
posted by infinite intimation at 4:53 PM on June 8, 2021
Incredibly, I think everything is much easier and without conspiracy theories
posted by igor4btc at 4:58 AM on June 15, 2021
posted by igor4btc at 4:58 AM on June 15, 2021
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Maybe Elon Musk can make it happen in five.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 3:57 AM on June 2, 2021 [29 favorites]