How I Escaped The Alt-Right
June 23, 2021 7:49 PM Subscribe
One Youtuber's trip into, and then out of, Youtube's alt-right ecosystem. (SLYT)
Huh, this guy's monorail video got fed to me by the algorithm this week.
posted by St. Oops at 10:58 PM on June 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by St. Oops at 10:58 PM on June 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think the desire to see the people/views we hate most get OWNED (don't pretend you don't love it yourself!)
I don't, and I don't.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:29 AM on June 24, 2021 [28 favorites]
I don't, and I don't.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:29 AM on June 24, 2021 [28 favorites]
The whole "Jordan Peterson DESTROYS [reasonable viewpoint/person]" genre is an unholy mishmash of the college debating tradition, hyper-partisanship, a reluctance to see people different from them as equals, and the idea that because "your guy" threw the kitchen sink of fallacies, misquotes, victim syndrome, and all-out lies against who/whatever he disagrees with, means he won and is therefore right.
posted by kersplunk at 3:27 AM on June 24, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by kersplunk at 3:27 AM on June 24, 2021 [18 favorites]
The whole "Jordan Peterson DESTROYS [reasonable viewpoint/person]" genre is an unholy mishmash of . . . hyper-partisanship . . .
Maybe so, but it's been around for basically the entirety of Youtube's existence, and I think most people would point to the mid-2010s as the start point for contemporary hyper-partisanship.
In a way, the whole thing is sort of a strange, hyperreal evolution of various debate/debunking Internet traditions that have existed since even before the Web, going back at least to Usenet.
posted by nosewings at 4:53 AM on June 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
Maybe so, but it's been around for basically the entirety of Youtube's existence, and I think most people would point to the mid-2010s as the start point for contemporary hyper-partisanship.
In a way, the whole thing is sort of a strange, hyperreal evolution of various debate/debunking Internet traditions that have existed since even before the Web, going back at least to Usenet.
posted by nosewings at 4:53 AM on June 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
but I'm still left curious as to how this person became disillusioned enough to explore the counter-arguments to begin with. What was the trigger?
I just listened to the NYTimes' podcast Rabbit Hole, and it covers this well. For the main guy whose search history they get access to, it starts with Richard Dawkins and other public atheists, then on to some self-help people, Joe Rogan, etc. He finds the "punk rock" veneer of the alt-right appealing. Worth a listen.
posted by coffeecat at 6:48 AM on June 24, 2021 [7 favorites]
I just listened to the NYTimes' podcast Rabbit Hole, and it covers this well. For the main guy whose search history they get access to, it starts with Richard Dawkins and other public atheists, then on to some self-help people, Joe Rogan, etc. He finds the "punk rock" veneer of the alt-right appealing. Worth a listen.
posted by coffeecat at 6:48 AM on June 24, 2021 [7 favorites]
It's been my consistent experience, based on admittedly self-limited sampling, that YouTube videos with DESTROYS in the title are almost always entirely a waste of my time.
posted by flabdablet at 7:18 AM on June 24, 2021 [22 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 7:18 AM on June 24, 2021 [22 favorites]
It's been my consistent experience, based on admittedly self-limited sampling, that YouTube videos with DESTROYS in the title are almost always entirely a waste of my time.
Not even the Hydraulic Press Channel uses "DESTROYS" in their titles, and if anyone has a legitimate use for that word it's them.
posted by clawsoon at 7:21 AM on June 24, 2021 [41 favorites]
Not even the Hydraulic Press Channel uses "DESTROYS" in their titles, and if anyone has a legitimate use for that word it's them.
posted by clawsoon at 7:21 AM on June 24, 2021 [41 favorites]
Oh dang I've heard of Rabbit Hole but forgot about it! Thank you for the reminder to give it a listen!
Yeah the reactionary punk thrill of not-following the sheeple seems to have been a huge driver for people toward skeptic debater culture (and eventually SJW-backlash culture -> gamergate -> alt right etc).
posted by windbox at 7:22 AM on June 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
Yeah the reactionary punk thrill of not-following the sheeple seems to have been a huge driver for people toward skeptic debater culture (and eventually SJW-backlash culture -> gamergate -> alt right etc).
posted by windbox at 7:22 AM on June 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
a reluctance to see people different from them as equals
I will happily cop to a reluctance to seeing Jordan Peterson as anywhere near an equal. There are undoubtedly many things wrong with me, but I trust and hope that being an overblown self-important poseur with clear delusions of grandeur and nary a trace of self-awareness is not among them.
posted by flabdablet at 7:25 AM on June 24, 2021 [17 favorites]
I will happily cop to a reluctance to seeing Jordan Peterson as anywhere near an equal. There are undoubtedly many things wrong with me, but I trust and hope that being an overblown self-important poseur with clear delusions of grandeur and nary a trace of self-awareness is not among them.
posted by flabdablet at 7:25 AM on June 24, 2021 [17 favorites]
Maybe so, but it's been around for basically the entirety of Youtube's existence, and I think most people would point to the mid-2010s as the start point for contemporary hyper-partisanship.
I'd point to the 90s, Gingrich and plenty of others were seeding it then. And even something like Dr. Laura or Dave Ramsey on The Money Game is more or less the same thing in quasi-non-political form, someone performing strict-father worldviews where a tribe-regarded moral authority sets a wayward softie straight through discipline, preferably with a scoldy edge.
posted by weston at 7:26 AM on June 24, 2021 [15 favorites]
I'd point to the 90s, Gingrich and plenty of others were seeding it then. And even something like Dr. Laura or Dave Ramsey on The Money Game is more or less the same thing in quasi-non-political form, someone performing strict-father worldviews where a tribe-regarded moral authority sets a wayward softie straight through discipline, preferably with a scoldy edge.
posted by weston at 7:26 AM on June 24, 2021 [15 favorites]
He briefly mentions how all the alt-right youtubers were starting to sound more and more like the religious zealots that drove him toward atheism/skeptic-tube in the first place....
I've been making that comparison for years. I've even pointed that out here on the blue a few times, and on occasion (as gently as I could) suggested to other MeFites that this was how they were coming across, whether they intended it or not.
Which begs the question "how do people not notice that at first." I suppose it's just human nature that if the zealot you're listening to happens to be saying stuff you agree with, it's easy to overlook the fact that they're a zealot.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:44 AM on June 24, 2021 [10 favorites]
I've been making that comparison for years. I've even pointed that out here on the blue a few times, and on occasion (as gently as I could) suggested to other MeFites that this was how they were coming across, whether they intended it or not.
Which begs the question "how do people not notice that at first." I suppose it's just human nature that if the zealot you're listening to happens to be saying stuff you agree with, it's easy to overlook the fact that they're a zealot.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:44 AM on June 24, 2021 [10 favorites]
The whole "Jordan Peterson DESTROYS [reasonable viewpoint/person]" genre
Fisking with moving pictures after fisking itself tragically disintermediated “that aggro accounting major in my college dorm’s day room who chose a semester of Ethical Decision Making for his sophomore year liberal arts credit.”
posted by mph at 8:04 AM on June 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
Fisking with moving pictures after fisking itself tragically disintermediated “that aggro accounting major in my college dorm’s day room who chose a semester of Ethical Decision Making for his sophomore year liberal arts credit.”
posted by mph at 8:04 AM on June 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
Hydraulic Press DESTROYS Jordan Peterson
posted by clawsoon at 8:57 AM on June 24, 2021 [37 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 8:57 AM on June 24, 2021 [37 favorites]
While I'm glad he got out of that world, I was hoping he got out of the Alt Right Youtube world by watching Korean pet Youtube. I will happily watch cat and dog reaction videos to remote control toys all day long. Or reactions of crabs to random food stuffs is also excellent.
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:29 AM on June 24, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:29 AM on June 24, 2021 [7 favorites]
Hydraulic Press DESTROYS Jordan Peterson
So Hydraulic Press guy will just put a pile of benzos and beef under it?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:57 AM on June 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
So Hydraulic Press guy will just put a pile of benzos and beef under it?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:57 AM on June 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
> Not even the Hydraulic Press Channel uses "DESTROYS" in their titles
Im-press-ive!
posted by Callisto Prime at 1:26 PM on June 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
Im-press-ive!
posted by Callisto Prime at 1:26 PM on June 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
"I think this is the absolute best way to launch chainsaws"
Beyond the press is much better value than watching "people/views we hate most get OWNED".
posted by flabdablet at 2:24 PM on June 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
Beyond the press is much better value than watching "people/views we hate most get OWNED".
posted by flabdablet at 2:24 PM on June 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
I think the desire to see the people/views we hate most get OWNED (don't pretend you don't love it yourself!)
I would agree since this is what got me to start reading MeFi over 16 years ago. It still happens here from time to time.
posted by some loser at 2:26 PM on June 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
I would agree since this is what got me to start reading MeFi over 16 years ago. It still happens here from time to time.
posted by some loser at 2:26 PM on June 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
I suppose it's just human nature that if the zealot you're listening to happens to be saying stuff you agree with, it's easy to overlook the fact that they're a zealot.
This. When you agree with what they're saying, a zealot just looks a person who's really passionate, and the zealotry becomes persuasive rather than alarming.
posted by LooseFilter at 3:06 PM on June 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
This. When you agree with what they're saying, a zealot just looks a person who's really passionate, and the zealotry becomes persuasive rather than alarming.
posted by LooseFilter at 3:06 PM on June 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
Hydraulic Press DESTROYS Jordan Peterson
I'd hold out for the Smac McCreanor interpretive dance remix.
posted by clawsoon at 3:53 PM on June 24, 2021 [7 favorites]
I'd hold out for the Smac McCreanor interpretive dance remix.
posted by clawsoon at 3:53 PM on June 24, 2021 [7 favorites]
When you agree with what they're saying, a zealot just looks a person who's really passionate
I once had a family friend unironically say "I am opposed to all forms of extremism. Except Christian extremism of course."
posted by Spiegel at 3:55 PM on June 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
I once had a family friend unironically say "I am opposed to all forms of extremism. Except Christian extremism of course."
posted by Spiegel at 3:55 PM on June 24, 2021 [4 favorites]
I think he made an interesting observation about how the YouTube algorithm radicalizes viewers and content creators. He points out that a number of YouTubers started out criticizing the religious right but as that niche was filled and the topic became stale some of them moved on to other topics in search of page views. It reminds me of an old Mitchell and Webb sketch about Richard Dawkins.
posted by interogative mood at 4:05 PM on June 24, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 4:05 PM on June 24, 2021 [6 favorites]
It reminds me of an old Mitchell and Webb sketch about Richard Dawkins
"But that's not why it sells, Richard. People like the denying, the consensus-smashing."
That sketch is right on point. Thanks for linking to it.
posted by clawsoon at 4:49 PM on June 24, 2021 [7 favorites]
"But that's not why it sells, Richard. People like the denying, the consensus-smashing."
That sketch is right on point. Thanks for linking to it.
posted by clawsoon at 4:49 PM on June 24, 2021 [7 favorites]
Hydraulic Press DESTROYS Jordan Peterson
If only we could all come together and engage with Will It Blend...
posted by zaixfeep at 6:41 PM on June 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
If only we could all come together and engage with Will It Blend...
posted by zaixfeep at 6:41 PM on June 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
"The title should be how I didn't fall into the alt-right instead" this commenter has it, but that title wouldn't be nearly as good for views...
posted by subdee at 7:54 PM on June 24, 2021
posted by subdee at 7:54 PM on June 24, 2021
"The title should be how I didn't fall into the alt-right instead" this commenter has it, but that title wouldn't be nearly as good for views...
Needing to get your regular fix of Sargon of Akkad is in pretty deep, isn't it?
posted by clawsoon at 8:11 PM on June 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
Needing to get your regular fix of Sargon of Akkad is in pretty deep, isn't it?
posted by clawsoon at 8:11 PM on June 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
If only we could all come together and engage with Will It Blend...
The Blendtec machines are indeed fine examples of the blender maker's art, but I'm pretty sure I know who'd win in a fight between a Blendtec and a 150 ton hydraulic press.
Unless, maybe, the Blendtec was nimble enough to get around the side of the machine and have a crack at the hoses. Hmmm.
posted by flabdablet at 4:40 AM on June 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
The Blendtec machines are indeed fine examples of the blender maker's art, but I'm pretty sure I know who'd win in a fight between a Blendtec and a 150 ton hydraulic press.
Unless, maybe, the Blendtec was nimble enough to get around the side of the machine and have a crack at the hoses. Hmmm.
posted by flabdablet at 4:40 AM on June 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure I want to watch the video. Can you give me a list of reasons why it'll blow my mind? Like maybe the top 10?
posted by fragmede at 2:44 PM on June 25, 2021
posted by fragmede at 2:44 PM on June 25, 2021
YouTube videos with DESTROYS in the title are almost always entirely a waste of my time.
Just found an exception. Hot damn.
posted by flabdablet at 9:15 AM on June 30, 2021
Just found an exception. Hot damn.
posted by flabdablet at 9:15 AM on June 30, 2021
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He briefly mentions how all the alt-right youtubers were starting to sound more and more like the religious zealots that drove him toward atheism/skeptic-tube in the first place, but that's about it, and this is the part that's way more fascinating to me because the "debunking puritan fundamentalist zealots" - or rather - "watching people with bad views get owned" content - seems to be the common thread for a lot of people who found themselves getting sucked into this vortex AND their ladder for escaping it.
And I can totally see how this type of "watch people with stupid views get owned by logic" content is addictive, I think the desire to see the people/views we hate most get OWNED (don't pretend you don't love it yourself!) is probably natural and unfortunately a huge part of how many people's politics have evolved in the digital age. It's just interesting to me how it ends up coming full circle for some people and not others, and I wish we had a better understanding of what those variables were.
posted by windbox at 9:45 PM on June 23, 2021 [21 favorites]