Stop your messing around
June 24, 2021 9:23 AM   Subscribe

 
The levels to which Trump's supporters diminish and debase themselves remain staggering.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 9:26 AM on June 24, 2021 [10 favorites]


Praise the Lord hallelujah
posted by Melismata at 9:28 AM on June 24, 2021 [10 favorites]


Finally a partial answer to the question 'how are these jackasses not getting disbarred?'
posted by kaibutsu at 9:30 AM on June 24, 2021 [33 favorites]


Frankly, I think this was 20 years too late.

"America's mayor" my ass.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:36 AM on June 24, 2021 [70 favorites]


It's not enough. But it's a start.
I still have hope there will be more consequences.
Metafilter: kindly do not exercise your need to shit on my hope.
posted by Glinn at 9:37 AM on June 24, 2021 [34 favorites]


Took long enough.
posted by Catblack at 9:37 AM on June 24, 2021 [1 favorite]


Kinda wild that i saw him on stage Tuesday night cheering on the presumptive republican candidate for NYC mayor. I guess you dont need to be able to practice law to stand sweatily next to fascists.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:38 AM on June 24, 2021 [5 favorites]


Do Sidney Powell next.
posted by RakDaddy at 9:42 AM on June 24, 2021 [37 favorites]


I have to admit his endorsement of Sliwa made me laugh.

But yeah, he wasn’t even NYC's mayor. He was New York City's mayor for Westchester — did everything he could to make life better for commuters and worse for the City residents who were supposed to be his constituents.
posted by holborne at 9:44 AM on June 24, 2021 [11 favorites]


If memory serves I think this means he only has a couple of scenes left before the ghost of Hunter Biden says kaddish over his wasted remains
posted by theodolite at 9:44 AM on June 24, 2021 [22 favorites]


35 years to the day after Roy Cohn was disbarred.
posted by mcdoublewide at 9:45 AM on June 24, 2021 [106 favorites]


Finally a partial answer to the question 'how are these jackasses not getting disbarred?'

The real answer, sadly, is that it turns out that self-policing of professions doesn't work, because there's always the incentive to be gentle (except in the case of egregious malefactors - then you go hard in hopes that people will see them as a "lone wolf" or "rogue".) The legal profession refuses to police itself - look at the case of Aaron Persky, where the legal profession refused to sanction him, then looked on in mock horror when the public did their job and removed him from the bench. At this point, I firmly believe that the legal profession is categorically incapable of policing itself, and as such the function needs to be given to others who aren't incentivized to look the other way.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:45 AM on June 24, 2021 [36 favorites]


Do Sidney Powell next.

Alas, she is not admitted in New York.
posted by holborne at 9:47 AM on June 24, 2021


Prior to becoming the Mayor of 9/11 and the Crypt Keeper of Four Seasons Total Landscaping, the guy built his career on "tough on crime" policies that involved NYPD routinely harassing, assaulting, arresting, and traumatizing thousands black and brown teenagers, which is to say, children. The people who survived it are still carrying that shit with them.

He also happily took 100% of the credit for the decrease in crime in NYC, even though it actually started under his predecessor, David Dinkins, the first black mayor of the city.

He can go to hell. He'll fit right in.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 9:47 AM on June 24, 2021 [65 favorites]


hopefully this sends a message to him to stop his fooling around and creating problems in town, and gets him to think of his future a little bit.
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 9:47 AM on June 24, 2021 [44 favorites]


Good news about Rudy, though disbarment is still far from sedition charges. And, unfortunately, it looks like sentencing for the first of the January 6 rioters was a slap on the wrist, which is being taken as an indicator of how lenient other Trump supporters will be treated for their criminal acts.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:49 AM on June 24, 2021 [6 favorites]


Persky wasn't disciplined because he didn’t do anything to be disciplined for. He didn’t violate any ethics rules, and acted within the legal range of sentencing guidelines.
posted by holborne at 9:49 AM on June 24, 2021 [2 favorites]


well, yay.
posted by bluesky43 at 9:50 AM on June 24, 2021


(With all respect to the Specials, I'd probably go with the Propaghandi verse instead.)
posted by evidenceofabsence at 9:58 AM on June 24, 2021 [4 favorites]


Persky wasn't disciplined because he didn’t do anything to be disciplined for. He didn’t violate any ethics rules, and acted within the legal range of sentencing guidelines.

Thank you for illustrating my point. He was caught out in a pattern of routinely soft-pedaling sexual assault and abuse cases, allowing abusive "not guilty on account of the victim being a slut" defenses, and ultimately giving convicted rapist Brock Turner a sweetheart deal, showing more concern for his welfare than for the woman he raped. Furthermore, the "didn't violate any ethics rules" argument rings especially hollow given the fight in the legal profession to oppose instituting ethics rules regarding the handling of sexual assault cases which would have made his behavior unethical. So yeah - Persky was a demonstration of why the legal profession's self-policing doesn't work, and your argument of "he didn't do anything wrong according to their standards" misses how that wasn't by accident.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:04 AM on June 24, 2021 [50 favorites]


Prior to becoming the Mayor of 9/11 and the Crypt Keeper of Four Seasons Total Landscaping, the guy built his career on "tough on crime" policies that involved NYPD routinely harassing, assaulting, arresting, and traumatizing thousands black and brown teenagers, which is to say, children.

Also, during his mayoral administration, he was hit with over 20 First-Amendment-violation lawsuits - and lost all of them. That link doesn't even mention one of the most newsworthy suits, which came after that article was written.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:15 AM on June 24, 2021 [12 favorites]


Woohoo! A victory for the "words mean things" community.
posted by LegallyBread at 10:19 AM on June 24, 2021 [16 favorites]


How, without a gross interference with democracy, could the legal profession create an ethics code that allowed the censure of judges for following sentencing guidelines and the recommendations of the probation department?
posted by howfar at 10:20 AM on June 24, 2021 [2 favorites]


And, unfortunately, it looks like sentencing for the first of the January 6 rioters was a slap on the wrist, which is being taken as an indicator of how lenient other Trump supporters will be treated for their criminal acts.

That NYT article has a rather interesting spin because the judge also explicitly said this sentencing should not be viewed as a bellwether for other insurrectionists:
Lamberth said Morgan-Lloyd avoided jail time because she didn't participate in the violence and condemned those who did. He issued a warning to other defendants that he'll likely sentence them to jail time if they continue defending their behavior at the Capitol.

"Some of these defendants are not going to do what you did. They're not going to say they did anything wrong. They, to this day, would still participate in the demonstration," Lamberth said. "... I don't want to create the impression that probation is the automatic outcome here, because it's not going to be."

posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:34 AM on June 24, 2021 [16 favorites]


But yeah, he wasn’t even NYC's mayor. He was New York City's mayor for Westchester — ...

As a resident of Westchester for over 25 years, yeah, no. Rudy is not my mayor. Never was. Rudy is a total knob.

I do have a small Rudy anecdote. When he was mayor, I was at a Yankees game with some friends. We had one friend's corporate seats. We were very near where the mayor was sitting. Of course, this being baseball, we were trying the old, a beer for every hit the Yankees got. So one of my very drunk friends is walking back down the aisle after using the men's room for probably the 5th time, and Rudy is leaving early going up the aisle. My friend says, "Mr. Mayor! How are you? Hey, you have some mustard on your shirt." Rudy immediately looked down and all around his front. My friend then said, "Made you look!" and sat down with us. Everyone within earshot was laughing. Even Rudy's security was smiling. Rudy was not smiling.
posted by AugustWest at 10:37 AM on June 24, 2021 [75 favorites]




Woohoo! A victory for the "words mean things" community.


thats what you librul cucumber blergle 44thshgq!!! +!!!!chekthink!
posted by lalochezia at 10:37 AM on June 24, 2021 [10 favorites]


How, without a gross interference with democracy, could the legal profession create an ethics code that allowed the censure of judges for following sentencing guidelines and the recommendations of the probation department?

It couldn’t. But the Persky issue has a lot complexities beyond the case itself and is a derail, so I won’t continue it. That issue is Googlable for anyone interested.
posted by holborne at 10:50 AM on June 24, 2021


So you're saying Rudy can fail?
posted by mogget at 11:15 AM on June 24, 2021 [21 favorites]


How, without a gross interference with democracy, could the legal profession create an ethics code that allowed the censure of judges for following sentencing guidelines and the recommendations of the probation department?

What exactly does it say about the legal profession that the soft pedaling of sexual assault and rape is considered ethical? Again, you say "he followed the rules" while ignoring how the legal profession defined those rules in such a manner that his actions were within its remit. Which is my point - the legal profession can not be trusted to self police, because it routinely allows what should be unethical behavior out of a sense of "there but for the grace of the Bar go I." (See also: Dershowitz, Alan, career of.)

To bring this back to Rudy - the man has shown repeatedly that he should not be a lawyer, yet it has taken decades for the legal profession to actually act. People have brought up Cohn, and it's worth noting that when he finally was held to account, you had a number of lawyers (like the aforementioned Dershowitz) argue that the Bar was overstepping its bounds. The legal profession has shown that it cannot be trusted to police itself for a number of obvious reasons - and perhaps it's time to end that.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:23 AM on June 24, 2021 [22 favorites]


Maybe Rudy can get a job at Four Seasons Total Landscaping.
posted by magstheaxe at 11:24 AM on June 24, 2021 [11 favorites]


Now for all the prosecutors, DAs, and cops who have been documented lying in order to secure wrongful convictions and have done more actual harm than this bumbling idiot.
posted by eotvos at 11:36 AM on June 24, 2021 [2 favorites]


My friend says, "Mr. Mayor! How are you? Hey, you have some mustard on your shirt." Rudy immediately looked down and all around his front.

I was totally expecting you friend to then bonk Rudy in the nose with the finger he was using to point out the supposed mustard stain. But his security probably wouldn’t have found that so amusing.
posted by TedW at 11:41 AM on June 24, 2021 [9 favorites]


Oh wow I'd never seen that music video! Love the song -- deep childhood memories of listening to that with my brothers.
posted by EllaEm at 12:07 PM on June 24, 2021 [3 favorites]


First, I was expecting “I fought the law” for the theme music.

Second, I don’t hang out here as much as I used to but I am HERE for this thread.

Third, a verb (fuck you), a noun (Rudy Giuliani), and 9/11.

I arrived in New York on the day the police abuse of Abner Louima was breaking on the news. I have hated him ever since.
posted by spitbull at 12:15 PM on June 24, 2021 [8 favorites]


The British Home Secretary has asked many similar questions in the last year, except her complaints relate to lawyers and judges who defend or uphold the democratically enacted legal rights of migrants.

Yes, your orange is quite different from the apple I'm discussing. There is a vast fucking difference between lawyers who protect the rights of the dispossessed and lawyers who argue that someone isn't a rapist because their victim wasn't a virgin, and the legal profession's continued insistence otherwise is a part of why the profession has the reputation that it does.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:18 PM on June 24, 2021 [19 favorites]


Proof again that everyone that comes into Trump's orbit gets burned one way or another
posted by Ber at 12:36 PM on June 24, 2021 [1 favorite]


the opinion made for an enjoyable read. tldr: the supreme court of new york does not have the power to stop you from lying, but has the power to stop you from doing it as a new york lawyer. several opportunities for "and yet he persisted" missed.
posted by 20 year lurk at 1:02 PM on June 24, 2021 [9 favorites]


Just as an FYI, while the Specials' version is excellent, it is in fact a cover. The original is by Dandy Livingston.

My only opinion on Giuliani right now is *Nelson voice* Ha-HA!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 1:23 PM on June 24, 2021 [6 favorites]


People *around* Trump get burned, but the man himself? Unpossible. God, I bet he loves watching his lackeys suffer the sorts of consequences he’ll never face.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:23 PM on June 24, 2021 [5 favorites]


Ivanka and Jared Distance Themselves from the Former President (CNN, original reporting Wednesday morning, autoplay video)

No, Ivanka and Jared Don't Get to 'Distance Themselves' from the Former President (The Mary Sue, opinion Wednesday evening)

Ivanka and Jared Working to Distance Themselves from the Consequences of Their Own Actions (WaPo, sometimes-MeFi-fave Alexandra Petri, opinion Thursday)
posted by box at 1:36 PM on June 24, 2021 [12 favorites]




because their victim wasn't a virgin

I’m going to say one more thing because it was the second time the misinformation was repeated and it’s worth contradicting, and then I’m out: Judge Persky never said any such thing, nor did he “repeatedly soft pedal rape” or whatever the phrase was up there. Both these statements are untrue. The report of the Commission on Judicial Performance, which investigated Persky, might be interesting to those who care to read it.
posted by holborne at 2:09 PM on June 24, 2021 [2 favorites]


Mod note: One deleted. This is about Rudy Giuliani (finally) losing his law license, and relatedly the inability of the American legal profession to self-police. There's certainly space to talk about what should be in-bounds and out-of-bounds for American attorneys in defending criminals, but the British Home Secretary's shenanigans are not really on point. (John Adams is your classic example for "limits of representing criminals for high-profile attorneys" debates in the US.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 2:16 PM on June 24, 2021 [7 favorites]


I’m going to say one more thing because it was the second time the misinformation was repeated and it’s worth contradicting, and then I’m out: Judge Persky never said any such thing, nor did he “repeatedly soft pedal rape” or whatever the phrase was up there. Both these statements are untrue.

Here's the thing - "misinformation" is not a synonym for "information that I disagree with". The reality is that Persky's soft touch with abusers was well documented in the run up to the successful recall vote, and the legal community engaged in some rather atrocious behavior in defense of both Persky and their own behavior, such as insinuating that Turner's victim was unable of writing her impact statement.

Again, referring to the legal community's lack of response to Persky illustrates my point - the community cannot be trusted to self police. The recall succeeded in part because the legal community refused to perform the least of sanctions, forcing the public to perform that task with the tool they had available. And as we've seen, the fact that people like Giuliani were allowed to keep their license for years after showing they should not have it. At this point, the legal community has shown that can't be trusted to self-police.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:02 PM on June 24, 2021 [12 favorites]


> because their victim wasn't a virgin

Judge Persky never said any such thing


Note that part of what you snipped out made it pretty clear that this was not really in reference to Judge Persky:

between lawyers who protect the rights of the dispossessed and lawyers who argue that someone isn't a rapist because their victim wasn't a virgin

Lawyers in America have, 100%, argued that something was not rape for that and for many other similar reasons, and that practice is considered to be ethical by the standards of those who are responsible for policing ethics.
posted by hanov3r at 3:15 PM on June 24, 2021 [11 favorites]


I second the vote for Sidney Powell to see some consequences, but would like to see it happen to Roger Stone first.

Would anyone else support adding every remaining professional associate of Roy Cohn to the consequences list?
posted by duoshao at 3:21 PM on June 24, 2021 [6 favorites]


When people say "the ethics requirements of lawyers and judges are too lax" the argument of "this attorney was not found to have violated the current ethics requirements" is not actually a defense.

It's true that the report is "interesting," insofar as it bends over backwards to find excuses for Persky. For example, it says that the Turner sentencing was in line with the probation report, but halts that line of interrogation rather than examining whether that probation report was in line with other, similar cases. Essentially, he's not racist because he just followed the advice of some racist folks.
posted by explosion at 3:21 PM on June 24, 2021 [14 favorites]


! for consequences to Mr. Giuliani.
posted by Mutant Lobsters from Riverhead at 3:51 PM on June 24, 2021


Did Rudy at least get paid, or has his lying been all pro bono?
posted by nubs at 3:58 PM on June 24, 2021 [8 favorites]


Did Rudy at least get paid, or has his lying been all pro bono?

I think some of it has been pro se.
posted by TedW at 4:21 PM on June 24, 2021 [9 favorites]


Certainly wasn’t pro fessional
posted by orange ball at 4:28 PM on June 24, 2021 [53 favorites]


Lawyers, judges, the legal profession - as a former lawyer, I do not encourage anyone to consider it a career,

https://harvardlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/134-Harv.-L.-Rev.-F.-446.pdf

The innate conservatism of a profession bound by precedent is always an obstacle.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 4:49 PM on June 24, 2021 [6 favorites]


Certainly wasn’t pro fessional

I regret that I have but one favorite to give for that comment.
posted by TedW at 5:21 PM on June 24, 2021 [7 favorites]


… The original is by Dandy Livingston .

and Rico Rodriguez played trombone on both.
posted by scruss at 7:31 PM on June 24, 2021 [4 favorites]


Famed Emotional Support Lawyer Mike Dunford on the state's suspension decision and on why it's just but also controversial. He is in agreement that this is a _highly_ unusual step, that Giuliani's speech would have been protected had he not been acting explicitly as Trump's legal counsel, and that Giuliani did himself absolutely no favors via his responses to the panel of judges.

The Former Guy also dropped a deuce on Gab about Rudy, as one might expect, declaring Rudy the "Eliot Ness of his generation," that the election had been proven fraudulent, that New York City is out of control and in flames, and a closing command to TAKE BACK AMERICA!

I will be curious as to whether/how vigorously Giuliani fights this, i.e. whether he shows up to the hearing and tries to defend himself or if he'd rather boycott it and declare himself the victim of a PARTISAN WITCH HUNT and CONVICTED WITHOUT A TRIAL and NEVER GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT THE REAL EVIDENCE. Hanging onto my betting money until I see how tomorrow falls.
posted by delfin at 7:32 PM on June 24, 2021 [3 favorites]


I guess you dont need to be able to practice law to stand sweatily next to fascists.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:38 PM on June 24


No, but it helps!

/lawyer
posted by ZaphodB at 8:03 PM on June 24, 2021 [3 favorites]


"It's particularly concerning because - and there can be no doubt here - with the possible exception of any lies about Dominion that are found to be defamatory, all his lies would be protected speech were he not a lawyer."

This is true, but also, fuck that shit. If you're a lawyer, you have more responsibility to the truth, particularly before the court, and you can go to fucking prison on a felony charge for suborning perjury. The US's crisis of elite impunity, where nobody with money or credentials is ever held accountable, won't end until attorneys start actually policing their profession and acting like laws fucking matter. Literally nobody else will be accountable until attorneys hold themselves accountable and act like laws matter, and honestly, don't hold your breath.

""It was just politics" can't, if we're going to be a responsible, self-policing profession, be a get-out-of-jail-free card."

We are super-definitely not a responsible, self-policing profession.

Basically one person has been denied admission by the Illinois Bar in 40 years, and that person was Matt F(ucking) Hale, who literally advocated for the murder of everyone who wasn't white. This was a controversial decision by the Illinois Bar. SO controversial that 3 entire weeks of my semester of legal ethics in North Carolina was devoted to Matt Hale and why, according to my ethics professor, he should have been admitted to the bar, because wanting to commit racial genocide was JUST FREE SPEECH until he started the actual genocide. In my ethics class, where I was the only person from Illinois, everyone was just freely opining and I was like, "His murder minion literally shot a close friend of mine from high school," and everyone was like BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER, he only URGED Ben Smith to shoot random minorities, he didn't FORCE him to. (Anyway I got a shitty grade in legal ethics because I refused to back down from my stance that Matt Hale should not be admitted to the bar in Illinois, as the only person from Illinois in the room, and my professor scolded me that I was "too emotional" to be a lawyer if I thought a little murder should exclude someone from the bar.) (I not only stand the fuck by this opinion, I have gotten more forceful about it since then.)

I have talked a little bit about Glenn Greenwald's role as Matt Hale's defense attorney, who maybe carried murder messages from Hale to his followers while serving as his attorney (that maybe resulted in the murder of a federal judge's family), and who definitely lied repeatedly to the courts, and who has not been disciplined. I do not think Greenwald should be allow to practice in Illlinois or, frankly, any other state, after his blatantly false representations to the courts in Illinois. Greenwald has NEVER been a free speech advocate, and he has ALWAYS been a white supremacist, willing to use his bar admission to advance the goals of violent white supremacists and silence the speech of minorities.

I lost my train of thought here because thinking about Hale and Greenwald gets me so het up. But basically my point is, you have to be literal Hitler to be denied bar admission in the US. And if you, as an attorney admitted in the same state, say, "Hey, maybe the guys AGREEING WITH HITLER should be expelled from the bar along with mini-Hilter," you will be called a hysterical woman who shouldn't have been admitted to the Bar because of your FEELINGS about GENOCIDE that make you NOT OBJECTIVE about MASS MURDER, and honestly fuck all those guys, the day I'm "objective" about mass murder is the day I want to be thrown in jail and expelled from the Bar. Because honestly, what are we even doing here???? What is our purpose as attorneys, if we acquiesce to violence and racism and violence in the service of racism?
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:06 PM on June 24, 2021 [122 favorites]


I don't know if I've ever seen you so het up, Ms. McGee. And it's honestly awesome to witness.
posted by notoriety public at 8:11 PM on June 24, 2021 [6 favorites]


I had no idea about that and holy shit, Eyebrows, thanks for bringing it!
posted by corb at 8:14 PM on June 24, 2021 [2 favorites]


I'm just so glad that bullshit is finally being called bullshit and being given no weight.
posted by hypnogogue at 8:42 PM on June 24, 2021 [2 favorites]


Certainly wasn’t pro fessional

You're saying it was con fessional?
posted by kaibutsu at 11:23 PM on June 24, 2021 [8 favorites]


A con, certainly.
posted by flabdablet at 6:34 AM on June 25, 2021 [3 favorites]


This certainly puts the kibosh on Trump trying to defend any lawsuit by Giuliani for unpaid fees. If Trump tried to argue that he doesn't have to pay because the state appeals court has found that Rudi was unfit to practice, then he'd be conceding that what Rudi told various courts about him having won was a lie.

Nice move, Rudi...
posted by essexjan at 6:52 AM on June 25, 2021 [4 favorites]


Some wag on twitter: Oh yeah? He'll fight this all the way to the Supreme Courtyard by Marriott.
posted by joannemerriam at 11:53 AM on June 25, 2021 [17 favorites]




Bizarre parking lot settings are becoming a Giuliani family signature move.
posted by flabdablet at 1:57 PM on June 25, 2021 [8 favorites]


Hey remember when Andy Giuliani was a cute little kid? Me neither.

I have caught attorneys intentionally lying about the holding In a case they cited in open court, in front of the judge, and had the judge refuse to impose any sanctions. An attorney lied openly to another judge about the status of a related case, and I called him on it in front of a judge too. That time I got a contempt but it took months and the scumbag is still fighting because he doesn't think he should have to pay anything for lying to the court and needlessly dragging a meritless case out for years to try to force a settlement. Hell, he's still making settlement demands and the jackass has been found in contempt!

So no, the legal profession can't police itself. Unless you get caught committing a harmless and innocent accounting error in your trust account for some reason, then they come down on you like a ton of bricks.
posted by 1adam12 at 4:59 PM on June 25, 2021 [10 favorites]


My personal soundtrack for this thread is My Metrocard by Le Tigre
posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:31 AM on June 26, 2021


According to Rudi, his suspension is because he was too good at arguing that Trump won and this is all part of the plot to silence him. This is veering into Sovereign Citizen territory now.
posted by essexjan at 1:01 PM on June 26, 2021 [1 favorite]


Yeah, they would have won State if the cheating umpires hadn't stopped the game after the 9th inning.

Bizarre parking lot settings are becoming a Giuliani family signature move.

Republicans only do stunts. Misspellings, crappy production, cake decorating "mistakes," all of it is intended to be given airtime. Virality, "oh ho ho, look at the dummies this time!" and so on. Marjorie Taylor Greene and what's-her-blonde get MUCH more traffic from people who dislike them than they get from constituents or right-wing fans (if they even have any).
posted by rhizome at 3:39 PM on June 26, 2021 [3 favorites]


The US's crisis of elite impunity, where nobody with money or credentials is ever held accountable, won't end until attorneys start actually policing their profession and acting like laws fucking matter. Literally nobody else will be accountable until attorneys hold themselves accountable and act like laws matter, and honestly, don't hold your breath.

We literally have Yale Law professors arguing that the teaching of professional ethics is beneath them.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:47 PM on June 29, 2021


Rudy's license to practice in Washington, D.C., was also yanked today.
posted by hanov3r at 4:20 PM on July 7, 2021 [1 favorite]


Serves him right.
posted by flabdablet at 6:08 PM on July 7, 2021


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