King of the Gig Hustle
July 14, 2021 12:44 PM Subscribe
https://marshallbrain.com/manna1 required reading, maybe (doesn't stick the landing but the setup is valid)
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 1:09 PM on July 14, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 1:09 PM on July 14, 2021 [8 favorites]
sad that he had developed such an intense need to game and beat the system, even after he knew he couldn't win. Like a form of gambling addiction.
Right. The car theft part was sad, but it could happen to anyone and the scariest part was over in a day. The addiction to the app lasted for many years.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:14 PM on July 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
Right. The car theft part was sad, but it could happen to anyone and the scariest part was over in a day. The addiction to the app lasted for many years.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:14 PM on July 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
He did not make a bad decision in re having his kids in the car. He made exactly the same decision that many, many working people make - the kids go along because there is nowhere safe, affordable and legal to leave them. Don't want people to leave their kids in the car? Provide free or at least subsidized child care. Want your stupid organic sumac-crusted wagyu pomegranate fusion burrito or whatever at 10pm in the rain on your fucking "billionaires' row"? Guess you'll be providing child care round the clock, then.
posted by Frowner at 1:24 PM on July 14, 2021 [97 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 1:24 PM on July 14, 2021 [97 favorites]
Also, if I were a Cummins executive with the cash to invest in real estate in San Francisco, no way would my child need to save up to bring his wife to the United States, and he wouldn't be knocking back four espressos a night to drive seventy hours a week and unable to afford Obamacare either. I'm not saying that parents should provide everything to children who won't work, but that's different from buying houses instead of making sure your kid has healthcare.
This is a really upsetting story. I do not care for the "it's an addiction", "I made bad choices" stuff.
And frankly, all these people sound smart and fun. What a waste to have them killing themselves for a bunch of techbros. I mean, we could even envision a society where, eg, you could just bring your wife to the US because she is your wife and if you liked driving deliveries you could make a decent, dignified living driving deliveries. I'd probably be a dishwasher if I could make as much as I can in a pink collar job - I've had dishwashing gigs, it's soothing and you can leave work behind when you're done.
What a dumb society we have. "Oh, be sure to be a lawyer or some other wealthy professional so that you can trample and exploit people instead of being trampled and exploited, that's a life to be proud of".
posted by Frowner at 1:59 PM on July 14, 2021 [104 favorites]
This is a really upsetting story. I do not care for the "it's an addiction", "I made bad choices" stuff.
And frankly, all these people sound smart and fun. What a waste to have them killing themselves for a bunch of techbros. I mean, we could even envision a society where, eg, you could just bring your wife to the US because she is your wife and if you liked driving deliveries you could make a decent, dignified living driving deliveries. I'd probably be a dishwasher if I could make as much as I can in a pink collar job - I've had dishwashing gigs, it's soothing and you can leave work behind when you're done.
What a dumb society we have. "Oh, be sure to be a lawyer or some other wealthy professional so that you can trample and exploit people instead of being trampled and exploited, that's a life to be proud of".
posted by Frowner at 1:59 PM on July 14, 2021 [104 favorites]
https://marshallbrain.com/manna1 required reading, maybe (doesn't stick the landing but the setup is valid)
In case anyone wonders how many clicks are necessary, there are 8 chapters. It ignores entropy but so does everyone, and it is otherwise quite good.
posted by hypnogogue at 2:30 PM on July 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
In case anyone wonders how many clicks are necessary, there are 8 chapters. It ignores entropy but so does everyone, and it is otherwise quite good.
posted by hypnogogue at 2:30 PM on July 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
if I were a Cummins executive with the cash to invest in real estate in San Francisco, no way would my child need to save up to bring his wife to the United States
From the article: "His mother offered to help with money, but Fang refused out of pride and anger at being pressured."
posted by airmail at 2:45 PM on July 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
From the article: "His mother offered to help with money, but Fang refused out of pride and anger at being pressured."
posted by airmail at 2:45 PM on July 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
Not everyone has the family safety net that Fang does, and those people deserve to be able to reunite their family without killing themselves working. But in this case, it seems like there is something going on with Fang's psychology. His family offered money and he refused it. He had so many opportunities to get a stabler job from his friends and didn't take them either. I'm reminded of Pa in the Little House books, who's outwardly charming and caring, but insists on uprooting his family again and again and putting them in poverty conditions... for what.
posted by airmail at 2:50 PM on July 14, 2021 [25 favorites]
posted by airmail at 2:50 PM on July 14, 2021 [25 favorites]
I know it was impractical for Fang to refuse the offer, but as someone who dropped out of high school and college despite high expectations and was desperate to prove something to the world about my capability and worth, I also understand.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 2:52 PM on July 14, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by evidenceofabsence at 2:52 PM on July 14, 2021 [15 favorites]
Also, if I were a Cummins executive with the cash to invest in real estate in San Francisco, no way would my child need to save up to bring his wife to the United States, and he wouldn't be knocking back four espressos a night to drive seventy hours a week and unable to afford Obamacare either.
My read on the story was he refused to take money from his family:
Also he was living rent free I think? So it's not super clear where or how the lines were drawn between him and his parent's wealth. And yes, it sucks to have to buy an investor visa or whatever the 150k is for.
if you liked driving deliveries you could make a decent, dignified living driving deliveries.
Honestly, I'm not sure food delivery is profitable enough to support paying drivers properly, and I'm not sure these jobs will exist for much longer. Especially in high CoL cities like SF. The reason pizza delivery works is because the product is just so high margin they can take the hit and still come out with a 18 percent operating margin. Heck, papa johns doesn't even offer dine-in service. To underscore how profitable it is, at many points in time, you'd have been better off buying Dominos and holding than GOOG at IPO. By contrast, katsu curry does not transport or deliver well, and french fries are apparently terrible 15 minutes after frying.
posted by pwnguin at 3:19 PM on July 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
My read on the story was he refused to take money from his family:
Finding out that he actually needed some $150,000 to sponsor his family, Fang finally accepted his parents’ help. He headed to Beijing to collect his family just as a new coronavirus was rampaging through Wuhan. After six years of grasping toward the goal, he, his wife, and their three kids—ages 5, 3, and 9 months—landed in San Francisco in late February 2020
Also he was living rent free I think? So it's not super clear where or how the lines were drawn between him and his parent's wealth. And yes, it sucks to have to buy an investor visa or whatever the 150k is for.
if you liked driving deliveries you could make a decent, dignified living driving deliveries.
Honestly, I'm not sure food delivery is profitable enough to support paying drivers properly, and I'm not sure these jobs will exist for much longer. Especially in high CoL cities like SF. The reason pizza delivery works is because the product is just so high margin they can take the hit and still come out with a 18 percent operating margin. Heck, papa johns doesn't even offer dine-in service. To underscore how profitable it is, at many points in time, you'd have been better off buying Dominos and holding than GOOG at IPO. By contrast, katsu curry does not transport or deliver well, and french fries are apparently terrible 15 minutes after frying.
posted by pwnguin at 3:19 PM on July 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
To underscore how profitable it is, at many points in time, you'd have been better off buying Dominos and holding than GOOG at IPO.
Only when Dave Brandon wasn't involved. The man has the reverse Midas touch.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:22 PM on July 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
Only when Dave Brandon wasn't involved. The man has the reverse Midas touch.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:22 PM on July 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
french fries are apparently terrible 15 minutes after frying.
If you like thick, moist (aka "soggy") french fries, they travel better -- and poutine travels wonderfully. Even an hour later and having cooled, poutine is still delicious. (My SO and I have tested this many, many times, because his treat after teaching an evening class is to get poutine, and then cycle about 20 minutes home with the poutine before eating it -- and I have to do quality inspection first, obviously).
posted by jb at 4:37 PM on July 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
If you like thick, moist (aka "soggy") french fries, they travel better -- and poutine travels wonderfully. Even an hour later and having cooled, poutine is still delicious. (My SO and I have tested this many, many times, because his treat after teaching an evening class is to get poutine, and then cycle about 20 minutes home with the poutine before eating it -- and I have to do quality inspection first, obviously).
posted by jb at 4:37 PM on July 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
I could not read all of this because I am absolutely enraged that the first part is all how a dad made a decision in a situation where he was being robbed by an unknown assailant with unknown dangers. And acting like staying would have been the better decision is just goddamn bullshit, even with tiny bits of understanding. People cannot and do not control how they react in traumatic situations and one cannot judge them for that . These are base biological processes that everyone has. He could have been killed in front of his kids. His kids could have been injured or killed instead of kidnapped. Or! Or ! Or ! He could been one of the families that lived in the neighborhood and the same thing could have happened!
So anyway, couldn't get the stuff about the actual gig app because I'm so angry about the above.
posted by AlexiaSky at 6:07 PM on July 14, 2021 [18 favorites]
So anyway, couldn't get the stuff about the actual gig app because I'm so angry about the above.
posted by AlexiaSky at 6:07 PM on July 14, 2021 [18 favorites]
I read it, and I... feel sad and angry at the same time.
I never tried driving for Lyft and Uber, but I am in the same city as him. And I am single, but older, so if I owned a decent car, I would have tried to make ends meet similar to what he decided. The apps are designed to be addicting, much like playing those Zynga games, where you feel the need to check back in to game for the bonuses and watch the money roll into your account. So in a way, I enjoy the fact that I never got started.
But it's NOT a long-term strategy. And a gap in your resume doesn't look good when you're trying to find another job, unless you move up the ladder somehow.
And I can even understand how he could have chased after the phone. It was literally his lifeline, and his dopamine fix.
I guess the moral of the story is: don't tilt at windmills. You'll just end up like Don Quixote.
posted by kschang at 6:32 PM on July 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
I never tried driving for Lyft and Uber, but I am in the same city as him. And I am single, but older, so if I owned a decent car, I would have tried to make ends meet similar to what he decided. The apps are designed to be addicting, much like playing those Zynga games, where you feel the need to check back in to game for the bonuses and watch the money roll into your account. So in a way, I enjoy the fact that I never got started.
But it's NOT a long-term strategy. And a gap in your resume doesn't look good when you're trying to find another job, unless you move up the ladder somehow.
And I can even understand how he could have chased after the phone. It was literally his lifeline, and his dopamine fix.
I guess the moral of the story is: don't tilt at windmills. You'll just end up like Don Quixote.
posted by kschang at 6:32 PM on July 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
I dunno... everyone seems to have an axe to grind over this story, including Wired, which seems to be all over the place. The carjack thing is unfortunate as can be, but would barely be a 30 second story on the local news. It's just bizarre to see everyone attempt to shoehorn a whole litany of issues that aren't all that relevant.
I don't see this as some kind of child care problem. Both on the specifics of the story, nor in general. It actually seems pretty brilliant to have your kids with you if you're doing this kind of work. And it sounds like child care isn't normally an issue with Fang.
The buried lede is that the guy has a weird, unhealthy obsession dominating his life, and has a poor judgement trying to prove something. Who just happened to get robbed/carjacked.
It's sad. But I'm not finding anything to be all that angry about.
posted by 2N2222 at 7:20 PM on July 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
I don't see this as some kind of child care problem. Both on the specifics of the story, nor in general. It actually seems pretty brilliant to have your kids with you if you're doing this kind of work. And it sounds like child care isn't normally an issue with Fang.
The buried lede is that the guy has a weird, unhealthy obsession dominating his life, and has a poor judgement trying to prove something. Who just happened to get robbed/carjacked.
It's sad. But I'm not finding anything to be all that angry about.
posted by 2N2222 at 7:20 PM on July 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
if you liked driving deliveries you could make a decent, dignified living driving deliveries.
There are so many ways you can make a living doing delivery driving, you would not BELIEVE! I've worked as a point-to-point courier, no fixed route, radio dispatched and mostly delivering title documents and blueprints although also other stuff. I've also worked delivering office supplies, which is a fixed route but not a fixed list of customers, quite physical. Probably my favorite delivery job. Also worked doing specialized delivery for different companies -- auto parts is a common one, but there are a lot of others.
If you really want to do delivery for a job (and I've enjoyed it in various positions for over 20 years now), don't do the app-driven stuff. Find a company to work for, with actual pay and benefits and using their vehicles and stuff. Much better way to do it.
posted by hippybear at 8:33 PM on July 14, 2021 [19 favorites]
There are so many ways you can make a living doing delivery driving, you would not BELIEVE! I've worked as a point-to-point courier, no fixed route, radio dispatched and mostly delivering title documents and blueprints although also other stuff. I've also worked delivering office supplies, which is a fixed route but not a fixed list of customers, quite physical. Probably my favorite delivery job. Also worked doing specialized delivery for different companies -- auto parts is a common one, but there are a lot of others.
If you really want to do delivery for a job (and I've enjoyed it in various positions for over 20 years now), don't do the app-driven stuff. Find a company to work for, with actual pay and benefits and using their vehicles and stuff. Much better way to do it.
posted by hippybear at 8:33 PM on July 14, 2021 [19 favorites]
I've done the auto parts delivery, hippybear. I enjoyed it, other than the bit where being a woman was a big disadvantage that had nothing to do with the trucks or the parts.
posted by tigrrrlily at 6:53 AM on July 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by tigrrrlily at 6:53 AM on July 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
One of the propaganda appeals of driving for someone like Uber/Lyft is it is the first rung of becoming a small independent business owner. Fang seems to me to fit this to a T. Sadly for the most part there are no higher rungs and the lowest rung is actually an exploitive no future noose forever being tightened"optimised" to increase the profits to the capital holders at the expense of the mental and physical health of the workers.
But in this case, it seems like there is something going on with Fang's psychology. His family offered money and he refused it.
The strings attached to that money likely could be repurposed to build a suspension bridge across the Grand Canyon. Refusing that money seems completely sane and rational to me.
Also bringing his kids with him seems completely normal to me but then again I spent most of my life till the age of 17 tagging along with my father assisting in what ever he was doing including amongst other things renovating houses, towing cars, reclaiming waste oil, handyman services or fixing appliances. I think that is pretty common whether it's farm kids, small business owners or poor people in general. The article seems to want to pillory him for an action that is essentially no more dangerous than taking your kids grocery shopping (in a "good" neighbourhood no less) and probably less dangerous than cycling in the same community.
posted by Mitheral at 7:29 AM on July 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
But in this case, it seems like there is something going on with Fang's psychology. His family offered money and he refused it.
The strings attached to that money likely could be repurposed to build a suspension bridge across the Grand Canyon. Refusing that money seems completely sane and rational to me.
Also bringing his kids with him seems completely normal to me but then again I spent most of my life till the age of 17 tagging along with my father assisting in what ever he was doing including amongst other things renovating houses, towing cars, reclaiming waste oil, handyman services or fixing appliances. I think that is pretty common whether it's farm kids, small business owners or poor people in general. The article seems to want to pillory him for an action that is essentially no more dangerous than taking your kids grocery shopping (in a "good" neighbourhood no less) and probably less dangerous than cycling in the same community.
posted by Mitheral at 7:29 AM on July 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
I don't see this as some kind of child care problem. It actually seems pretty brilliant to have your kids with you if you're doing this kind of work.
It's really, really, REALLY unhealthy for toddlers to be strapped into their car seat for hours every day watching videos while their parent works. This is the kind of attitude espoused by people who completely fail to grasp the idea that childcare is real work. Childcare. Is. Real. Work. Just like you cannot be a computer programmer during the exact same hours as you are driving for Doordash, you cannot be a caregiver for children while you're driving for Doordash either.
Accepting that it's normal for parents to take their kids along when they have a childcare emergency one time is totally different from believing it's great for parents to take their kids with them while they drive for Doordash all day every day. This is nothing like farm kids or whatever. This is kids in a seat.
posted by MiraK at 7:53 AM on July 15, 2021 [17 favorites]
It's really, really, REALLY unhealthy for toddlers to be strapped into their car seat for hours every day watching videos while their parent works. This is the kind of attitude espoused by people who completely fail to grasp the idea that childcare is real work. Childcare. Is. Real. Work. Just like you cannot be a computer programmer during the exact same hours as you are driving for Doordash, you cannot be a caregiver for children while you're driving for Doordash either.
Accepting that it's normal for parents to take their kids along when they have a childcare emergency one time is totally different from believing it's great for parents to take their kids with them while they drive for Doordash all day every day. This is nothing like farm kids or whatever. This is kids in a seat.
posted by MiraK at 7:53 AM on July 15, 2021 [17 favorites]
I despise the term 'gig economy' and hate to see it being used as mainstream.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 7:55 AM on July 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Cardinal Fang at 7:55 AM on July 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
Also bringing his kids with him seems completely normal to me.
For me, leaving kids in the car is something you just never, ever do. I had a big fight with my ex-husband over that decades ago when he left our one-year-old in the car so he could run into McDonalds. I have twice waited in parking lots for parents to come back (in one case, it was very hot and the child was screaming - in another, a toddler had gotten out of the car seat and was wandering the parking lot - I still wonder if I should have called the police ).
But I'm not sure that's really germane to what this story was about. It seems like a bad decision made in the heat of the moment by an overly stressed parent and only tangentially related to the issues raised by the story. Of course, it's a way more exciting story, which I'm guessing is why the piece leads with it.
posted by FencingGal at 8:02 AM on July 15, 2021
For me, leaving kids in the car is something you just never, ever do. I had a big fight with my ex-husband over that decades ago when he left our one-year-old in the car so he could run into McDonalds. I have twice waited in parking lots for parents to come back (in one case, it was very hot and the child was screaming - in another, a toddler had gotten out of the car seat and was wandering the parking lot - I still wonder if I should have called the police ).
But I'm not sure that's really germane to what this story was about. It seems like a bad decision made in the heat of the moment by an overly stressed parent and only tangentially related to the issues raised by the story. Of course, it's a way more exciting story, which I'm guessing is why the piece leads with it.
posted by FencingGal at 8:02 AM on July 15, 2021
But, MiraK, he wasn't taking his kids with him all day every day. According to the story, he took them out for short periods very occasionally to give his wife a well-deserved break from the work of caring for young three children by herself (in a foreign-to-her country, isolated from her friends and extended family, mostly stuck inside their house all day during a pandemic, no less). That's a very different thing for the kids, healthwise, than having them in the car all day every day.
posted by BlueJae at 8:05 AM on July 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by BlueJae at 8:05 AM on July 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
> But, MiraK, he wasn't taking his kids with him all day every day
I know - and I did explicitly say in my comment that what happened here (an emergency one-time schlep-along a parent normally does) is very different from what 2N2222 was proposing ("It actually seems pretty brilliant to have your kids with you if you're doing this kind of work").
posted by MiraK at 8:08 AM on July 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I know - and I did explicitly say in my comment that what happened here (an emergency one-time schlep-along a parent normally does) is very different from what 2N2222 was proposing ("It actually seems pretty brilliant to have your kids with you if you're doing this kind of work").
posted by MiraK at 8:08 AM on July 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
(I'm not related to the protagonist of the article btw)
posted by Cardinal Fang at 8:14 AM on July 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Cardinal Fang at 8:14 AM on July 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Mainly, what made me object to 2N2222's comment is that they were using this proposal ("It actually seems pretty brilliant to have your kids with you if you're doing this kind of work") to claim this is not a childcare problem. This is absolutely a childcare problem. Both in this case and in the case of many gig workers, minimum wage workers, and lower-waged workers, there are so many people who are forced to bring their children along with them to their work, or leave them neglected or unsupervised or in dangerous conditions because the low waged workers cannot afford any better. The pandemic exacerbated these circumstances.
People who react to these circumstances by saying things like "It actually seems pretty brilliant to have your kids with you if you're doing this kind of work, I don't see this as some kind of childcare problem" are making the same mistake as people who say things like "It actually seems like a pretty awesome privilege to play your music at our wedding, I don't see this as some kind of unpaid work problem" - treating childcare and playing music as not real work, as if children are raised and music is made automatically by parents and musicians simply *existing* and breathing, with no skill or effort or time expended.
posted by MiraK at 8:20 AM on July 15, 2021 [10 favorites]
People who react to these circumstances by saying things like "It actually seems pretty brilliant to have your kids with you if you're doing this kind of work, I don't see this as some kind of childcare problem" are making the same mistake as people who say things like "It actually seems like a pretty awesome privilege to play your music at our wedding, I don't see this as some kind of unpaid work problem" - treating childcare and playing music as not real work, as if children are raised and music is made automatically by parents and musicians simply *existing* and breathing, with no skill or effort or time expended.
posted by MiraK at 8:20 AM on July 15, 2021 [10 favorites]
I DEFINITELY agree we have a childcare problem. As someone who has been a kid in a single parent household, has worked as an underpaid childcare provider, and is a mother, whew, do I agree that we have a childcare problem.
posted by BlueJae at 10:47 AM on July 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by BlueJae at 10:47 AM on July 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
Something is fishy about this story. I am not saying anyone is deceiving anyone, and I don't know what the angle is, but something is not right. $2,500 mortgage when he was part time at a petstore? Looks like he had a free house and a free car (Acura TL?) when he needed it, which is odd. As was not mentioning the wife and kids to friends?
This seems no different from friends I know that bartend or work in the service industry. The pay is low, people look out for each other, etc. Even the hours seem similar. That doesn't make it okay but I don't find this story unique other than he brought his kids along with him but even that's not that big of a deal.
He has friends in managerial positions at prominent startups and he's not taking the jobs despite that being a golden ticket is kind of strange.
posted by geoff. at 10:49 PM on July 15, 2021
This seems no different from friends I know that bartend or work in the service industry. The pay is low, people look out for each other, etc. Even the hours seem similar. That doesn't make it okay but I don't find this story unique other than he brought his kids along with him but even that's not that big of a deal.
He has friends in managerial positions at prominent startups and he's not taking the jobs despite that being a golden ticket is kind of strange.
posted by geoff. at 10:49 PM on July 15, 2021
I agree there’s information missing but it’s not really that fishy. He sounds like someone who doesn’t do well (for whatever reason, mental health, ADD, or otherwise) in power structures like being a student or working in an entry-level position, but not enough confidence or maybe marketable skills to start his own traditional business. That’s the seductive quality of the gig economy - no bosses but the game-like qualities of the app.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:58 AM on July 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by warriorqueen at 4:58 AM on July 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
I relate very hard to the feeling of not doing well in traditional employment and not having the skills or confidence to start a business... It's always so much easier to keep a job or business than to start anew. Whenever there's a break in my momentum, it becomes almost as hard to restart as it was the very first time to start.
posted by MiraK at 10:19 AM on July 16, 2021
posted by MiraK at 10:19 AM on July 16, 2021
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posted by BigHeartedGuy at 12:54 PM on July 14, 2021 [10 favorites]