Dubai Is A Parody Of The 21st Century
August 15, 2021 5:39 PM Subscribe
Dubai Is A Parody Of The 21st Century : "The worst of urban planning and capitalism, plus some slavery for good measure. Welcome to Dubai, everyone."
I saw this.
- Burj Khalifa does have a connection to the municipal sewage system. Not all buildings do in Dubai, but we carry trash away in trucks so I don't know the difference -- especially in a city with extremely low labor costs.
- The lack of public transportation into ultra wealthy enclaves doesn't make sense since a lot of those houses probably are never occupied. Also ultra wealthy real estate never really makes sense. The real problem isn't a few thousand billionaire homes but the extreme wealth disparity and lack of a middle class or affordable housing. Not new to the 21st century.
- When you have as much wealth as Dubai -- spending it becomes not an abstract concept but a real question. Where do you put trillions? Having massive infrastructure projects like skyscrapers brings international engineers and a diversity of talent from across the globe. Much like Henry Ford's idea that trade keeps the world peace, having a lot of wealthy countries invested in your prosperity keeps Dubai relevant. I'd rather they spend it on buildings than nukes.
- Slavery is a real issue.
This seems to be more akin to shaming celebrities like Britney Spears for not being the right kind of wealthy. Can anyone but the Western world do anything right?
posted by geoff. at 6:11 PM on August 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
- Burj Khalifa does have a connection to the municipal sewage system. Not all buildings do in Dubai, but we carry trash away in trucks so I don't know the difference -- especially in a city with extremely low labor costs.
- The lack of public transportation into ultra wealthy enclaves doesn't make sense since a lot of those houses probably are never occupied. Also ultra wealthy real estate never really makes sense. The real problem isn't a few thousand billionaire homes but the extreme wealth disparity and lack of a middle class or affordable housing. Not new to the 21st century.
- When you have as much wealth as Dubai -- spending it becomes not an abstract concept but a real question. Where do you put trillions? Having massive infrastructure projects like skyscrapers brings international engineers and a diversity of talent from across the globe. Much like Henry Ford's idea that trade keeps the world peace, having a lot of wealthy countries invested in your prosperity keeps Dubai relevant. I'd rather they spend it on buildings than nukes.
- Slavery is a real issue.
This seems to be more akin to shaming celebrities like Britney Spears for not being the right kind of wealthy. Can anyone but the Western world do anything right?
posted by geoff. at 6:11 PM on August 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
we carry trash away in trucks so I don't know the difference
There's an immense difference between trash and sewage from a sanitation standpoint. I would think the difference is so immense that it would be self-evident.
a lot of those houses probably are never occupied.
Except for the housekeepers, handypeople, and other service workers.
spending it becomes not an abstract concept but a real question. Where do you put trillions?
Presuming that the money had to have been spent on prestige projects and massive infrastructure for political/strategic reasons, the video already proposed alternatives that would have been superior, and I'm pretty sure I can think of twenty more things off the top of my head that would have been superior.
Can anyone but the Western world do anything right?
I'm pretty sure the UAE isn't the hill you really want to die on to make this point.
posted by tclark at 6:35 PM on August 15, 2021 [77 favorites]
There's an immense difference between trash and sewage from a sanitation standpoint. I would think the difference is so immense that it would be self-evident.
a lot of those houses probably are never occupied.
Except for the housekeepers, handypeople, and other service workers.
spending it becomes not an abstract concept but a real question. Where do you put trillions?
Presuming that the money had to have been spent on prestige projects and massive infrastructure for political/strategic reasons, the video already proposed alternatives that would have been superior, and I'm pretty sure I can think of twenty more things off the top of my head that would have been superior.
Can anyone but the Western world do anything right?
I'm pretty sure the UAE isn't the hill you really want to die on to make this point.
posted by tclark at 6:35 PM on August 15, 2021 [77 favorites]
When it starts going underwater due to burning the fossil fuels that made Dubai rich in the first place, it will truly become a parody of the 21st century.
posted by meowzilla at 6:39 PM on August 15, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by meowzilla at 6:39 PM on August 15, 2021 [18 favorites]
Dubai got rich off shipping. It's not a petro-state.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:55 PM on August 15, 2021
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:55 PM on August 15, 2021
- When you have as much wealth as Dubai -- spending it becomes not an abstract concept but a real question. Where do you put trillions?
- Slaves
Well, I can think of where to start redistributing all that money and it's also wildly easy to think of better uses of that money.
posted by GoblinHoney at 7:25 PM on August 15, 2021 [15 favorites]
- Slaves
Well, I can think of where to start redistributing all that money and it's also wildly easy to think of better uses of that money.
posted by GoblinHoney at 7:25 PM on August 15, 2021 [15 favorites]
Does anybody know much about Adam Something (the videographer/youtuber) and his background/ v? I'd like to share this with urban planners that I know, but I'd like to be able to cite somebody that actually works in the field, and not just an armchair planner.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 7:26 PM on August 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by LeRoienJaune at 7:26 PM on August 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
They have never presented any credentials or indicated a professional background in the subjects they cover. They are masters of the YouTube algorithm though— incredible channel growth in like 6 months.
posted by interogative mood at 9:40 PM on August 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 9:40 PM on August 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
The poem is fucking awful:
I am the power that lifts the world’s head proudly skywards, surpassing limits and expectations.
Rising gracefully from the desert and honouring the city with a new glow. I am an extraordinary union of engineering and art, with every detail carefully considered and beautifully crafted.
I am the life force of collective aspirations and the aesthetic union of many cultures. I stimulate dreams, stir emotions and awaken creativity.
I am the magnet that attracts the wide-eyed tourist, eagerly catching their postcard moment, the centre for the world’s finest shopping, dining and entertainment and home for the world’s elite.
I am the heart of the city and its people; the marker that defines Emaar’s ambition and Dubai’s shining dream. More than just a moment in time, I define moments for the future generations.
I am Burj Khalifa
'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
posted by adept256 at 10:13 PM on August 15, 2021 [8 favorites]
I am the power that lifts the world’s head proudly skywards, surpassing limits and expectations.
Rising gracefully from the desert and honouring the city with a new glow. I am an extraordinary union of engineering and art, with every detail carefully considered and beautifully crafted.
I am the life force of collective aspirations and the aesthetic union of many cultures. I stimulate dreams, stir emotions and awaken creativity.
I am the magnet that attracts the wide-eyed tourist, eagerly catching their postcard moment, the centre for the world’s finest shopping, dining and entertainment and home for the world’s elite.
I am the heart of the city and its people; the marker that defines Emaar’s ambition and Dubai’s shining dream. More than just a moment in time, I define moments for the future generations.
'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
posted by adept256 at 10:13 PM on August 15, 2021 [8 favorites]
When you have as much wealth as Dubai -- spending it becomes not an abstract concept but a real question. Where do you put trillions?
The UAE and its neighbors also have some of the highest per capita greenhouse gas emissions per capita of any country on earth. It turns out that stuff like air conditioning the outdoors, building an indoor ski resort in the desert, and treating aviation as a key part of your economy uses a lot of energy. There are some real consequences to the choice to put trillions in the middle of an extremely hot desert (and yes, we can say the same thing about certain land use choices in the US).
posted by zachlipton at 10:48 PM on August 15, 2021 [20 favorites]
The UAE and its neighbors also have some of the highest per capita greenhouse gas emissions per capita of any country on earth. It turns out that stuff like air conditioning the outdoors, building an indoor ski resort in the desert, and treating aviation as a key part of your economy uses a lot of energy. There are some real consequences to the choice to put trillions in the middle of an extremely hot desert (and yes, we can say the same thing about certain land use choices in the US).
posted by zachlipton at 10:48 PM on August 15, 2021 [20 favorites]
My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
But see also:
posted by rongorongo at 11:29 PM on August 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
But see also:
My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel, I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel.from Sheikh Rashid Bin Saeed Al Maktoum - who ruled Dubai from 1958 until his death in 1990. Notably this quote is often incorrectly attributed to his third son - and current ruler - Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al Maktoum. The essence of Dubai governance has been about how to try to diversify from the oil that brought a wave of money but which is seen as transient.
posted by rongorongo at 11:29 PM on August 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
A friend of mine has a boyfriend in the UAE who is from Egypt and yes, the slavery thing is accurate. After awhile his old hotel job stopped paying him entirely, he had to live at the place with a roommate, I think they stopped feeding him....but they did let him use his vacation time to go home for a month. The heck? He couldn't quit or else he'd fuck up his visa or whatever they do for that sort of thing over there.
I am happy to report that he did finally get a job that will actually give him money and treat him well, but I was like, seriously?! He can't even quit a job that isn't paying him?! at the time.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:37 PM on August 15, 2021 [7 favorites]
I am happy to report that he did finally get a job that will actually give him money and treat him well, but I was like, seriously?! He can't even quit a job that isn't paying him?! at the time.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:37 PM on August 15, 2021 [7 favorites]
Where to put trillions? May i suggest a measly 25 billion goal?
mods, delete if this is too much of a derail
posted by DreamerFi at 12:53 AM on August 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
mods, delete if this is too much of a derail
posted by DreamerFi at 12:53 AM on August 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
Henry Ford's idea that trade keeps the world peace
oh man...
posted by acb at 1:14 AM on August 16, 2021 [12 favorites]
oh man...
posted by acb at 1:14 AM on August 16, 2021 [12 favorites]
I saw this, thanks for posting. One of my plans for 2020 was to go to Dubai as part of a book project.
Dubai in itself seems to be a terrible, anachronistic place, but what worries me is how it fascinates and inspires stupid rich people all over the world, who seem to think it is an ideal city.
posted by mumimor at 2:12 AM on August 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
Dubai in itself seems to be a terrible, anachronistic place, but what worries me is how it fascinates and inspires stupid rich people all over the world, who seem to think it is an ideal city.
posted by mumimor at 2:12 AM on August 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
I once (over a decade ago) had five hours or so at Dubai airport between Australia and London. I went to catch up on the internet and found that a lot of it was blocked in the country (Flickr, for one). At that point any desire to spend time in this fantastic future-city went out the window.
posted by acb at 2:21 AM on August 16, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by acb at 2:21 AM on August 16, 2021 [8 favorites]
Btw, the author's video on why monorails are a bad idea is also eye-opening.
posted by acb at 2:54 AM on August 16, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by acb at 2:54 AM on August 16, 2021 [8 favorites]
> seriously?! He can't even quit a job that isn't paying him?!
Slavery in Dubai works like this: a lot of "workers" from south Asian countries reserve their spot on relatively highly paid Dubai construction or domestic help jobs by paying - or promising to pay - large amounts of money to go-betweens who arrange visas for them. These middle men are poised to take family assets as collateral if the "worker" defaults on that initial loan, and there are loads of times when the "workers'" spouses and elderly parents are harassed to within an inch of their life by collection operations... so the "worker" cannot quit their job no matter how bad it gets. On the Dubai end, employers usually confiscate workers' passports until the contract is finished so it's not like they can leave even if they want to risk it. And of course they're forced to work in hellish conditions, doing hard physical labor in high heat without enough water, sleeping in atrocious conditions, having their pay withheld for arbitrary reasons, etc.
But then there are many actual people who DO endure the slavery and successfully make it out of there with cash on hand after two or three decades spent in the Gulf... more cash than they believe they would have earned if they'd stayed home. That's what entices people to keep signing up for these gigs.
posted by MiraK at 6:08 AM on August 16, 2021 [22 favorites]
Slavery in Dubai works like this: a lot of "workers" from south Asian countries reserve their spot on relatively highly paid Dubai construction or domestic help jobs by paying - or promising to pay - large amounts of money to go-betweens who arrange visas for them. These middle men are poised to take family assets as collateral if the "worker" defaults on that initial loan, and there are loads of times when the "workers'" spouses and elderly parents are harassed to within an inch of their life by collection operations... so the "worker" cannot quit their job no matter how bad it gets. On the Dubai end, employers usually confiscate workers' passports until the contract is finished so it's not like they can leave even if they want to risk it. And of course they're forced to work in hellish conditions, doing hard physical labor in high heat without enough water, sleeping in atrocious conditions, having their pay withheld for arbitrary reasons, etc.
But then there are many actual people who DO endure the slavery and successfully make it out of there with cash on hand after two or three decades spent in the Gulf... more cash than they believe they would have earned if they'd stayed home. That's what entices people to keep signing up for these gigs.
posted by MiraK at 6:08 AM on August 16, 2021 [22 favorites]
acb: "Btw, the author's video on why monorails are a bad idea is also eye-opening."
Aw, it's not for you. It's more of a Shelbyville idea.
posted by chavenet at 6:56 AM on August 16, 2021 [25 favorites]
Aw, it's not for you. It's more of a Shelbyville idea.
posted by chavenet at 6:56 AM on August 16, 2021 [25 favorites]
I've spent time in Dubai twice on the way to stay with friends in Oman. The scale of the excess there is just overwhelming, and it doesn't take long to notice the caste system that keeps that excess in place.
posted by TheKaijuCommuter at 8:20 AM on August 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by TheKaijuCommuter at 8:20 AM on August 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
I might have been dreaming but I think he mentioned in one of his videos that his background is in theater? Probably dreaming.
Anyway I don't care. Anyone who spends that much time clowning Elon Musk is cool beans.
posted by klanawa at 8:49 AM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
Anyway I don't care. Anyone who spends that much time clowning Elon Musk is cool beans.
posted by klanawa at 8:49 AM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
And Las Vegas is a parody of USA's Horatio Alger capitalism.
posted by ohshenandoah at 9:03 AM on August 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by ohshenandoah at 9:03 AM on August 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Does anybody know much about Adam Something (the videographer/youtuber) and his background/ v?
Fans of Well There's Your Problem will find Adam's video covers familiar territory, albeit at a much faster pace.
posted by stannate at 9:14 AM on August 16, 2021
Fans of Well There's Your Problem will find Adam's video covers familiar territory, albeit at a much faster pace.
posted by stannate at 9:14 AM on August 16, 2021
He can't even quit a job that isn't paying him?!
Abu Dhabi's temporary people - a 2019 conversation between ABC Radio National's Sarah Kanowski and author Deepak Unnikrishnan, born in Abu Dhabi to Indian parents living there as guest workers - is well worth the 47 minute listening time.
posted by flabdablet at 9:18 AM on August 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
Abu Dhabi's temporary people - a 2019 conversation between ABC Radio National's Sarah Kanowski and author Deepak Unnikrishnan, born in Abu Dhabi to Indian parents living there as guest workers - is well worth the 47 minute listening time.
posted by flabdablet at 9:18 AM on August 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
And Horatio Alger was a pedophile.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:19 AM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:19 AM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
When you have as much wealth as Dubai -- spending it becomes not an abstract concept but a real question. Where do you put trillions?
If they have trillions to spend on vanity luxury development just for the sake of development why do they need slave labor?
Beyond actually paying people for their work, give me a few hours and I could come up with a list of about a thousand projects that could put a real dent in trillions.
They could be investing in and funding a whole bunch of pure research projects, like improving solar power efficiency and production techniques. Or battery research. Or more efficient desalination. Or fusion. Or anti viral medications. Or effective farming for desert environments.
Then they could invest some more in funding actual infrastructure projects like solar plants, solar powered desalination plants, manufacturing plants to produce solar cells, batteries, better reverse osmosis filters for desalination.
I suspect that the reason that they don't do these things is because it's not as tangible and visibly luxurious as building the world's biggest mall, hotel or skyscraper or whatever using and abusing cheap imported labor.
It's a lot easier to siphon money around to favored people to manage projects and maximize those gifts or grafts by turning a blind eye to slavery and labor abuses.
Why not the worlds largest library? What about a free university? How about the world's largest free food garden?
I can think of so many ways to spend that kind of money I'm going to have to cut myself off and walk away before I get dizzy and fritter away my work day.
posted by loquacious at 10:01 AM on August 16, 2021 [25 favorites]
If they have trillions to spend on vanity luxury development just for the sake of development why do they need slave labor?
Beyond actually paying people for their work, give me a few hours and I could come up with a list of about a thousand projects that could put a real dent in trillions.
They could be investing in and funding a whole bunch of pure research projects, like improving solar power efficiency and production techniques. Or battery research. Or more efficient desalination. Or fusion. Or anti viral medications. Or effective farming for desert environments.
Then they could invest some more in funding actual infrastructure projects like solar plants, solar powered desalination plants, manufacturing plants to produce solar cells, batteries, better reverse osmosis filters for desalination.
I suspect that the reason that they don't do these things is because it's not as tangible and visibly luxurious as building the world's biggest mall, hotel or skyscraper or whatever using and abusing cheap imported labor.
It's a lot easier to siphon money around to favored people to manage projects and maximize those gifts or grafts by turning a blind eye to slavery and labor abuses.
Why not the worlds largest library? What about a free university? How about the world's largest free food garden?
I can think of so many ways to spend that kind of money I'm going to have to cut myself off and walk away before I get dizzy and fritter away my work day.
posted by loquacious at 10:01 AM on August 16, 2021 [25 favorites]
Also I'm almost certain that Adam Something is ZeFrank using an alt so he can rant and swear about things that isn't nature being metal or freaky animals doing it.
It's not just the accent. The cadence, writing style and idioms are really, really close to ZeFrank.
posted by loquacious at 10:16 AM on August 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
It's not just the accent. The cadence, writing style and idioms are really, really close to ZeFrank.
posted by loquacious at 10:16 AM on August 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
The series Mike Looks at the Map covered a lot of the same complaints about the lack of urban planning in his own quirky style in Dubai: An Absolute Mess!
posted by peeedro at 10:52 AM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by peeedro at 10:52 AM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
Al Jazeera: Detainee says China has secret jail for Uighurs – in Dubai
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:57 AM on August 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:57 AM on August 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
Also I'm almost certain that Adam Something is ZeFrank using an alt
I had a similar thought about his overall affect (and I don't think you were being entirely serious about this)... but I think it's simpler than that. It's hard to overstate how deeply ZeFrank's "video voice" shaped the way people speak in modern video. I hear bits of him all the time from a wide variety of Youtubers and other online creators -- including ones significantly too young to have actually been around when he was prolific.
posted by bluemilker at 11:02 AM on August 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
I had a similar thought about his overall affect (and I don't think you were being entirely serious about this)... but I think it's simpler than that. It's hard to overstate how deeply ZeFrank's "video voice" shaped the way people speak in modern video. I hear bits of him all the time from a wide variety of Youtubers and other online creators -- including ones significantly too young to have actually been around when he was prolific.
posted by bluemilker at 11:02 AM on August 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
The series Mike Looks at the Map covered a lot of the same complaints about the lack of urban planning in his own quirky style in Dubai: An Absolute Mess! yt
Hey it works (no it doesn't) for the multitude of US cities he mentioned! I don't get the fatalism, but I do get that it's terrible urban design.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:03 AM on August 16, 2021
Hey it works (no it doesn't) for the multitude of US cities he mentioned! I don't get the fatalism, but I do get that it's terrible urban design.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:03 AM on August 16, 2021
I had a similar thought about his overall affect (and I don't think you were being entirely serious about this)... but I think it's simpler than that.
I'm mildly but not entirely serious. I want to believe because it would be hilarious. Also I would like to hear ZeFrank rant about stupid people doing stupid things.
"Be-cauuuuse this is how the o-li-garch dooo."
posted by loquacious at 11:12 AM on August 16, 2021 [11 favorites]
I'm mildly but not entirely serious. I want to believe because it would be hilarious. Also I would like to hear ZeFrank rant about stupid people doing stupid things.
"Be-cauuuuse this is how the o-li-garch dooo."
posted by loquacious at 11:12 AM on August 16, 2021 [11 favorites]
Hey it works (no it doesn't) for the multitude of US cities he mentioned!
More I think of it, the US gets pissy about Dubai because it's takes US urban planning and pushes it up 3 notches. Instead of spending billions on highways and sewers, they blew off the sewers and just run poop trucks on the highway? How dare we not think of that first!
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:36 AM on August 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
More I think of it, the US gets pissy about Dubai because it's takes US urban planning and pushes it up 3 notches. Instead of spending billions on highways and sewers, they blew off the sewers and just run poop trucks on the highway? How dare we not think of that first!
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:36 AM on August 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Liking Dubai is a useful indicator to me, not as strong as MAGA hat but probably someone who does not share my values.
posted by Meatbomb at 11:50 AM on August 16, 2021 [16 favorites]
posted by Meatbomb at 11:50 AM on August 16, 2021 [16 favorites]
https://www.metafilter.com/192343/Dubai-Is-A-Parody-Of-The-21st-Century#8136324
Have you been to Branson, MO?
posted by Windopaene at 12:03 PM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
Have you been to Branson, MO?
posted by Windopaene at 12:03 PM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
Liking Dubai is a useful indicator to me, not as strong as MAGA hat but probably someone who does not share my values.
Yeah, there's no way I could live in Dubai. It's basically a greatest hits list of everything I loath about modern civilization - kleptocracy, hyperconsumerism, patriarchal oppression, fundamental religious rule and so much more.
I hate cars and freeways and everything they entail and from everything I've seen about car culture and infrastructure in Dubai it's like LA but a lot worse, and you're mainly going from one air conditioned retail/consumer space to another.
I'm also queer/GSM so everything about being in Dubai is basically total nightmare fuel.
I also have a big fat mouth with no filter or tact when it comes to speaking up about injustice and inequality. I'd probably get disappeared within 24 hours.
This is even before we get to the climate and weather. I've had enough extreme desert heat in my life.
I'd be sincerely freaking the fuck out just being stuck in the airport on a layover because I'm like 50% cannabis by volume. Even if I wasn't holding any I'm pretty sure a drug sniffing dog would rat me out anyway and they'd find some crumb of something in my shoe or pockets or something.
posted by loquacious at 12:45 PM on August 16, 2021 [12 favorites]
Yeah, there's no way I could live in Dubai. It's basically a greatest hits list of everything I loath about modern civilization - kleptocracy, hyperconsumerism, patriarchal oppression, fundamental religious rule and so much more.
I hate cars and freeways and everything they entail and from everything I've seen about car culture and infrastructure in Dubai it's like LA but a lot worse, and you're mainly going from one air conditioned retail/consumer space to another.
I'm also queer/GSM so everything about being in Dubai is basically total nightmare fuel.
I also have a big fat mouth with no filter or tact when it comes to speaking up about injustice and inequality. I'd probably get disappeared within 24 hours.
This is even before we get to the climate and weather. I've had enough extreme desert heat in my life.
I'd be sincerely freaking the fuck out just being stuck in the airport on a layover because I'm like 50% cannabis by volume. Even if I wasn't holding any I'm pretty sure a drug sniffing dog would rat me out anyway and they'd find some crumb of something in my shoe or pockets or something.
posted by loquacious at 12:45 PM on August 16, 2021 [12 favorites]
Liking Dubai is a useful indicator to me, not as strong as MAGA hat but probably someone who does not share my values.
Back when I lived in London and used Tinder, Dubai selfies were an automatic swipe left.
posted by acb at 1:14 PM on August 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
Back when I lived in London and used Tinder, Dubai selfies were an automatic swipe left.
posted by acb at 1:14 PM on August 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
So are we finally noticing that the reason Dubai has "trillions of dollars" is because of slave labor? What would those projects really cost if they paid a fair wage?
posted by Wetterschneider at 1:31 PM on August 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Wetterschneider at 1:31 PM on August 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
That monorail video is really bad. It's basic premise is that what we have now is great, so we should never change anything. Right now, monorail switches are slow, so we should expect in a future where we adopted monorails, those switches should also be slow. That's nonsense.
I don't really care whether trains use one or two rails. I just want more trains. I just object to these nonsensical arguments.
posted by Quonab at 1:54 PM on August 16, 2021
I don't really care whether trains use one or two rails. I just want more trains. I just object to these nonsensical arguments.
posted by Quonab at 1:54 PM on August 16, 2021
Instead of spending billions on highways and sewers, they blew off the sewers and just run poop trucks on the highway? How dare we not think of that first!
I mean, at least Chicago bothered to make the river run the other direction...
especially in a city with extremely low labor costs.
[...]
- Slavery is a real issue.
Um.
posted by nickmark at 1:55 PM on August 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
I mean, at least Chicago bothered to make the river run the other direction...
especially in a city with extremely low labor costs.
[...]
- Slavery is a real issue.
Um.
posted by nickmark at 1:55 PM on August 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
This is timely. My 12 year old wants to go to UAE for our next big family trip. We had a stop over there on our way to India when he was five and all he remembers is the monorail and the Burj Khalifa. The slavery thing is easy to explain why we’re not going there. He actually has a distant cousin who’s been enslaved there for decades. I tried explaining what’s not cool about the carbon foot print stuff and the indoor ski resort. But really it’s just the gilded glitz for no purpose that so horrible. Like if I’m not impressed by that (and I’m not), there’s nothing else in Dubai but horror.
Worst tourists I’ve ever seen in Dubai. It seems like maybe a cheap discount vacation option from Europe or something. Like the European equivalent of Americans who go to Ensenada.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 2:01 PM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
Worst tourists I’ve ever seen in Dubai. It seems like maybe a cheap discount vacation option from Europe or something. Like the European equivalent of Americans who go to Ensenada.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 2:01 PM on August 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
I don't really care whether trains use one or two rails. I just want more trains. I just object to these nonsensical arguments.
Well the tracks cost money, so if you want more trains (like he does), then mono rail is not the way to go.
If you have to spend way more on tracks you get less trains. Like what problem is monorails solving?
Don't get caught up in Musk style bullshit, just because something is newer doesn't make it better.
posted by Iax at 2:34 PM on August 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
That monorail video yt is really bad. It's basic premise is that what we have now is great, so we should never change anything.
I understand his argument to be that monorails primary selling point is that they are “cool” or “futuristic” but that when building transit systems we should look at flexibility, efficiency, cost and scalability. When you compare those things the answer is almost always some kind of train.
posted by interogative mood at 3:37 PM on August 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
I understand his argument to be that monorails primary selling point is that they are “cool” or “futuristic” but that when building transit systems we should look at flexibility, efficiency, cost and scalability. When you compare those things the answer is almost always some kind of train.
posted by interogative mood at 3:37 PM on August 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
Yeah, a few years ago ryanrs totally destroyed monorails for me by talking about track switching options and costs with comparing train switches and crossings to monorail switches and how you can't make a monorail track that has a cross-track section.
Monorails as we know them are actually really dumb. This is also why maglev trains will likely never be anything more than a linear single track, a-to-b and back again option because they're just monorails with even more parts.
Show me a monorail switching yard and depot where you can make up and sort a thousand boxcars into 10 different trains over a mile long.
posted by loquacious at 8:20 PM on August 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
Monorails as we know them are actually really dumb. This is also why maglev trains will likely never be anything more than a linear single track, a-to-b and back again option because they're just monorails with even more parts.
Show me a monorail switching yard and depot where you can make up and sort a thousand boxcars into 10 different trains over a mile long.
posted by loquacious at 8:20 PM on August 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
It's basic premise is that what we have now is great, so we should never change anything.
No, its basic premise is that compatibility with existing systems is a valuable resource, and that innovation solely for innovation's sake is often pointless and expensive to a completely counterproductive extent.
If there is no actual problem with existing two-rail train and tram technology that monorails solve (and I've never seen a monorail proponent identify one other than an aesthetic preference), and building new monorail track and rolling stock involves way more expenditure per passenger trip than building new two-rail track and rolling stock (which it indisputably does, always and everywhere), then the monorail option is the worse one and we should just build more two-rail trains and trams instead. The End.
There is nothing incorrect or objectionable about this line of argument as far as I can tell, but you do need to get past the rising hackles brought on by an unfortunately fashionable sneering and supercilious presentation style to see through to that.
posted by flabdablet at 12:27 AM on August 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
No, its basic premise is that compatibility with existing systems is a valuable resource, and that innovation solely for innovation's sake is often pointless and expensive to a completely counterproductive extent.
If there is no actual problem with existing two-rail train and tram technology that monorails solve (and I've never seen a monorail proponent identify one other than an aesthetic preference), and building new monorail track and rolling stock involves way more expenditure per passenger trip than building new two-rail track and rolling stock (which it indisputably does, always and everywhere), then the monorail option is the worse one and we should just build more two-rail trains and trams instead. The End.
There is nothing incorrect or objectionable about this line of argument as far as I can tell, but you do need to get past the rising hackles brought on by an unfortunately fashionable sneering and supercilious presentation style to see through to that.
posted by flabdablet at 12:27 AM on August 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
No, its basic premise is that compatibility with existing systems is a valuable resource, and that innovation solely for innovation's sake is often pointless and expensive to a completely counterproductive extent.
This is an interesting comment because nearly every single train-based transit system in the US is designed as a unique one-off and this has been recently identified as a major reason US transit costs are so high. Their advice to cut over 10% off the cost of the average US transit project is basically: copy the people who know what they are doing, and we are looking at you "Phoenix, LA, NYC, Dallas, Seattle and everywhere else that is currently extending their train-based transit."
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:31 AM on August 17, 2021
This is an interesting comment because nearly every single train-based transit system in the US is designed as a unique one-off and this has been recently identified as a major reason US transit costs are so high. Their advice to cut over 10% off the cost of the average US transit project is basically: copy the people who know what they are doing, and we are looking at you "Phoenix, LA, NYC, Dallas, Seattle and everywhere else that is currently extending their train-based transit."
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:31 AM on August 17, 2021
I appreciated this video, because it is easy to get caught up in how the working engineers who made all of this impossible stuff executed it, as opposed to whether it makes any damn sense or is morally justifiable at all.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:54 AM on August 17, 2021
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:54 AM on August 17, 2021
Really appreciated the top video, just the level of bitter snark I need right now.
The parts about urban planning in Dubai remind me very much of the planning, or lack of, in new and rich parts of China I've been to. Completely inhospitable at the ground level, and designed mostly for the cars of rich people. I realize the same principles underlie much new development going on in American suburbs, but for me those areas are avoidable tbh. In China the scale of development and the general lack of any check on developers made it seem inescapable to me.
I will say that at least China is fully committed to modernizing both their intercity rail network and their urban public transportation (when it isn't being flooded -- not exclusively a Chinese problem tho).
posted by viborg at 9:44 AM on August 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
The parts about urban planning in Dubai remind me very much of the planning, or lack of, in new and rich parts of China I've been to. Completely inhospitable at the ground level, and designed mostly for the cars of rich people. I realize the same principles underlie much new development going on in American suburbs, but for me those areas are avoidable tbh. In China the scale of development and the general lack of any check on developers made it seem inescapable to me.
I will say that at least China is fully committed to modernizing both their intercity rail network and their urban public transportation (when it isn't being flooded -- not exclusively a Chinese problem tho).
posted by viborg at 9:44 AM on August 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Worst tourists I’ve ever seen in Dubai. It seems like maybe a cheap discount vacation option from Europe or something. Like the European equivalent of Americans who go to Ensenada.
Dubai seems to take everything that is horrible about Los Vegas and amplify it. Can't imagine it not being afflicted with the worst tourists.
posted by ocschwar at 5:07 PM on August 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
I've heard nice things about Oman. Some friends from the UK have traveled there every year for the past 10 years, and say it's a wonderful place to get to know the gulf without going to Dubai.
posted by chaz at 7:33 PM on August 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by chaz at 7:33 PM on August 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
I liked AdamSomething's skewering of Elon Musk's Starship to Earth. In lots of ways Elon Musk and Sheikh Mohammed Maktoum are similar characters: people whose colossal wealth happens to make their techno-dreams realisable and of consequence for everybody else. Also, people who don't really have to engage much with such niceties as design reviews, critical media or public perception. Many of us can feel intuitively uncomfortable about such schemes - but it takes proper design and engineering analysis to be informed enough to fully see their flaws through all the bullshit.
posted by rongorongo at 2:02 AM on August 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by rongorongo at 2:02 AM on August 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
I lied. He studied Humanities -- Sociology and Cultural Studies -- at an Eastern European university with a year at Heidelberg.
posted by klanawa at 12:59 PM on August 18, 2021
posted by klanawa at 12:59 PM on August 18, 2021
Architect Belinda Carr, a Dubai native, responds to this video. Some of the comments on her video are also interesting, including at least one person disagreeing with her who also claims to be a Dubai native. I think in her haste to defend her native city, she is... incautious, perhaps, in how she responds to the criticisms of human rights abuses. Nevertheless it's interesting to see a different take. A few months ago she also made a video on growing up during Dubai's construction boom.
posted by biogeo at 7:59 PM on August 23, 2021
posted by biogeo at 7:59 PM on August 23, 2021
people whose colossal wealth happens to make their techno-dreams realisable and of consequence for everybody else. Also, people who don't really have to engage much with such niceties as design reviews, critical media or public perception.
I refer to this as inflicting themselves. On the public, society...whatever.
posted by rhizome at 10:27 PM on August 30, 2021
I refer to this as inflicting themselves. On the public, society...whatever.
posted by rhizome at 10:27 PM on August 30, 2021
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posted by awfurby at 6:08 PM on August 15, 2021 [7 favorites]