Food, Beauty, Mind
August 28, 2021 8:38 PM Subscribe
Abigail Thorn speaks about the philosophy of food and the impossible ideals we hold ourselves to in the most recent edition of her YouTube channel PhilosophyTube (which has just hit one million subscribers)
This may be a little foggy, but I thought self-discipline was supposed to be a male virtue, so if a woman is self-disciplined, it doesn't really count.
I'm not sure whether I'm getting the culture right-- I was born in 1953, so the childish, impulsive male wasn't quite as idealized when I was growing up as it was later.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 12:08 AM on August 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure whether I'm getting the culture right-- I was born in 1953, so the childish, impulsive male wasn't quite as idealized when I was growing up as it was later.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 12:08 AM on August 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
This may be a little foggy, but I thought self-discipline was supposed to be a male virtue, so if a woman is self-disciplined, it doesn't really count.
The shaping of women is full of contradiction. Self discipline is a masculine virtue, so childish impulsiveness is seen as feminine. But women need to control their bodies in order to look young and attractive, so they have to be covertly disciplined. Which again leeds to pretense being a feature of womanhood. "I just came naturally with a little squeaky voice and false eyelashes and I really prefer eating two leaves of lettuce for lunch" is the norm. The rule of contradiction applies to other aspects of traditional womanhood. She is not supposed to understand numbers or money, but she must run her household like a tight ship. She is supposed to be frail but also perform physical labour in the household, such as cleaning, or schlepping heavy stuff around. Now, as in the parody baked into the video, she is also supposed to have a succesful career while pretending to be ignorant and powerless.
posted by mumimor at 4:11 AM on August 29, 2021 [18 favorites]
The shaping of women is full of contradiction. Self discipline is a masculine virtue, so childish impulsiveness is seen as feminine. But women need to control their bodies in order to look young and attractive, so they have to be covertly disciplined. Which again leeds to pretense being a feature of womanhood. "I just came naturally with a little squeaky voice and false eyelashes and I really prefer eating two leaves of lettuce for lunch" is the norm. The rule of contradiction applies to other aspects of traditional womanhood. She is not supposed to understand numbers or money, but she must run her household like a tight ship. She is supposed to be frail but also perform physical labour in the household, such as cleaning, or schlepping heavy stuff around. Now, as in the parody baked into the video, she is also supposed to have a succesful career while pretending to be ignorant and powerless.
posted by mumimor at 4:11 AM on August 29, 2021 [18 favorites]
I've been watching Abigail on YouTube for quite a while (timespan measured in years) and I'm glad to see she's growing her audience. She does such a delightful job on her videos and they're both fun and educational. Two thumbs up!
posted by which_chick at 5:06 AM on August 29, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by which_chick at 5:06 AM on August 29, 2021 [5 favorites]
I'd like to watch this, but I understand it's a) partially about eating disorders and I can't deal with the triggers right now and b) references wolf's the beauty myth, which is well known as not being accurate about eating disorders at all (citation) Can anyone who's seen the video and knows about eating disorders let me know if Abigail is being accurate about this subject?
posted by Braeburn at 7:48 AM on August 29, 2021
posted by Braeburn at 7:48 AM on August 29, 2021
One thing that resonated with me was when she said that for a man, finishing a hearty meal is seen as a victory, while for a woman it's a defeat. It reminded me of this Food Network show, "Man vs. Food", where a guy goes around to restaurants that offer grotesque eating challenges, like the "Eat 20 of our chili dogs in less than an hour and you get your picture on the wall" sort of thing, and attempts the challenge. I'm now imagining a companion show, "Woman vs. Food", where I would go around to these restaurants, be presented with the giant platters, and say "Oh no, no thank you, I'm not really hungry." Victory!
posted by Daily Alice at 8:01 AM on August 29, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by Daily Alice at 8:01 AM on August 29, 2021 [15 favorites]
Braeburn: I don't have a transcript to verify this without rewatching the whole video, but I believe Abigail makes reference to The Beauty Myth twice, and neither time is for statistics.
posted by JDHarper at 8:48 AM on August 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
More details below--I don't think they'll be triggering but just in case I'll hide them behind this details tag.
- Once is for a pull quote about how beauty standards are used as a tool for political control (women being made to regard their own subjectivities as lesser and therefore to be less likely to organize for women's rights).
- The other is Wolf describing how she got genuine pleasure from looking down on women who "lacked the discipline" to handle it. Abigail follows this with "There is a dark, addictive pleasure to being a little fascist towards yourself."
posted by JDHarper at 8:48 AM on August 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
I appreciate that JD, thanks! I'll check this video out when I'm doing a bit better. :)
posted by Braeburn at 9:16 AM on August 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Braeburn at 9:16 AM on August 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
So good.
When she just completely lands the joke about hormones (after referencing Mary Berry earlier) I cracked up and rewound and rewatched and cracked up again.
On a serious note, I so admire her research and ability to gradually build up to complex concepts that are still easily relevant and relatable for me. The point about being one's own subject, and all the shame and judgement that goes with that, is really useful.
Thanks for posting.
posted by winesong at 12:35 PM on August 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
When she just completely lands the joke about hormones (after referencing Mary Berry earlier) I cracked up and rewound and rewatched and cracked up again.
On a serious note, I so admire her research and ability to gradually build up to complex concepts that are still easily relevant and relatable for me. The point about being one's own subject, and all the shame and judgement that goes with that, is really useful.
Thanks for posting.
posted by winesong at 12:35 PM on August 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
I'm now imagining a companion show, "Woman vs. Food",
You might find the career of Molly Schuyler, "Mom vs. Food", interesting, there. She's been a staple of the professional competitive eating circuit for ages, and specifically with a very "I'm just this petite mom who's got a talent" sort of flair.
I first heard about her when she cut Portland's Old Country Kitchen 72oz steak challenge record (which my dad had reminisced about from his younger days) from 12:53 to 6:38.
posted by CrystalDave at 10:32 PM on August 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
You might find the career of Molly Schuyler, "Mom vs. Food", interesting, there. She's been a staple of the professional competitive eating circuit for ages, and specifically with a very "I'm just this petite mom who's got a talent" sort of flair.
I first heard about her when she cut Portland's Old Country Kitchen 72oz steak challenge record (which my dad had reminisced about from his younger days) from 12:53 to 6:38.
posted by CrystalDave at 10:32 PM on August 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
I've been a fan of hers since shortly after coming out as trans myself, when I was looking for some things to understand. Her coming out video, with someone else playing pre-transition her and billed as "The Man Who Wasn't There" really hit me hard with the explanation and the insight it gave me into my own mental foofuraw. (It's at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AITRzvm0Xtg if you are interested, and is wonderful.)
As someone who's struggled with weight as well, and is doing so even more during transition and reflecting on my body image, well, this one really hit home for me.
posted by mephron at 11:41 AM on August 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
As someone who's struggled with weight as well, and is doing so even more during transition and reflecting on my body image, well, this one really hit home for me.
posted by mephron at 11:41 AM on August 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
The video mentions _Heat, Eat, Repeat_ by Nigella Lawson. There's a chapter called "Pleasures" which is about the importance of enjoying food, and protecting that pleasure from anything that opposes it.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 4:34 PM on August 31, 2021
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 4:34 PM on August 31, 2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxwSsTCavOM
Video by a fat woman pointing that a discussion of fear of being seen as fat is incomplete without a mention of actual fat people.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 2:17 AM on September 4, 2021
Video by a fat woman pointing that a discussion of fear of being seen as fat is incomplete without a mention of actual fat people.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 2:17 AM on September 4, 2021
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* the calorie is a very recent invention and it's popularization (particularly the idea that there is an allowance that you are supposed to have) imposes a completely different relationship with food than people from previous eras had
* the connection between the panopticon (the idea of a metaphorical prison where a guard might always be watching and therefore the prisoners learn to behave as if they were always being observed, planting a little policeman in their heads) and catcalling (as a constant reminder to women that they might be observed and judged at any time)
The whole thing is worth watching. Also, as with all of these videos, if you turn on closed captioning you get some making of/metacommentary at the end while the credits are rolling
posted by JDHarper at 8:49 PM on August 28, 2021 [2 favorites]