Whatever Kind Of Mood You're In Tonight
September 2, 2021 6:31 PM Subscribe
On Strong Songs Kirk Hamilton, “takes listeners inside a piece of music, breaking it down and figuring out what makes it work.” In this episode Kirk tackles Billy Joel's magnum opus, “Scenes From an Italian Restaurant”
“Pull up a table and join Kirk for a long look into one of Joel's most enduring songs, the seven-and-a-half minute, five course musical meal that is ‘Scenes from an Italian Restaurant.’ The centerpiece on Joel's breakthrough 1977 album The Stranger, Italian Restaurant has got it all: schmaltzy sax, hard rock rhythms, love, heartbreak, and a pair of harmonized clarinets.”Other Highlights:
- “Dancing Queen” by ABBA
- “Babylon Sisters” by Steely Dan
- “So What” by Miles Davis
- “Like a Prayer” by Madonna
- “Africa” by Toto
WOW.
I had not heard of Kirk or Strong Songs, but on your recommendation, I have just downloaded a bunch of episodes - Kate Bush and Elton John and "Satisfied" from Hamilton and of course "Scenes from an Italian Restaurant."
I love "Scenes," and I could probably do a good three-minute ad lib on what makes it great, but between your post and punchtothehead's comment, I'm most interested to hear what Kirk has to say.
I am really looking forward to checking these out, and I hope to be able to come back and comment intelligently once I have.
Thank you so much for posting this, ob1quixote!
posted by kristi at 7:25 PM on September 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
I had not heard of Kirk or Strong Songs, but on your recommendation, I have just downloaded a bunch of episodes - Kate Bush and Elton John and "Satisfied" from Hamilton and of course "Scenes from an Italian Restaurant."
I love "Scenes," and I could probably do a good three-minute ad lib on what makes it great, but between your post and punchtothehead's comment, I'm most interested to hear what Kirk has to say.
I am really looking forward to checking these out, and I hope to be able to come back and comment intelligently once I have.
Thank you so much for posting this, ob1quixote!
posted by kristi at 7:25 PM on September 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
The recent episode about Fingertips, by They Might Be Giants, which I thought I knew everything about, has really got me back into TMBG in a huge way. Kirk is the greatest.
posted by kpmcguire at 7:32 PM on September 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by kpmcguire at 7:32 PM on September 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
I've long been a fan of Song Exploder, and this seems like a lovely complement. The great thing about Song Exploder is that they interview the musicians, but it's a bit thin on analysis of 'classics,' as about half the time the musicians are interested in promoting new work. (But SE is still flipping amazing, especially for getting deep into the wide variety of creative processes that people go through.)
posted by kaibutsu at 7:42 PM on September 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by kaibutsu at 7:42 PM on September 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
I've always wanted to make an album of goth covers so I can just name it "A Bottle of Dread, A Bottle of Spite"
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:57 PM on September 2, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:57 PM on September 2, 2021 [19 favorites]
Looking forward to digging into this, but for now I'll just say that this is what the phrase "Strong Songs" will always bring to mind for me.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:00 PM on September 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:00 PM on September 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
My friends and I all loved River of Dreams when it came out in high school, and my uncle did not approve so he hooked me up with the Stranger and 52nd St, so I could hear the real deal, I guess. Anyway, loved the albums, named my first car after Eddie of Brenda and Eddie, memorized all the words (in retrospect, SFAIR was not meant to be a karaoke tune I don't think...oh well...).
As a high school kid listening to the narrator reminisce about the cool kids in SFAIR and how things didn't quite go their way, what I remember being intrigued about were all the little hints about the *narrator's* life and why was he/she also just meeting up again with whomever, why hadn't they stayed together, etc. There's a whole nother story on top of Brenda and Eddie and I was soooooo curious about *that* one.
posted by Tandem Affinity at 9:13 PM on September 2, 2021 [5 favorites]
As a high school kid listening to the narrator reminisce about the cool kids in SFAIR and how things didn't quite go their way, what I remember being intrigued about were all the little hints about the *narrator's* life and why was he/she also just meeting up again with whomever, why hadn't they stayed together, etc. There's a whole nother story on top of Brenda and Eddie and I was soooooo curious about *that* one.
posted by Tandem Affinity at 9:13 PM on September 2, 2021 [5 favorites]
Thanks for this. I don't do podcasts but it's nice to have a pleasant counterpoint to the Billy Joel Sucks post the other day.
posted by one for the books at 9:19 PM on September 2, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by one for the books at 9:19 PM on September 2, 2021 [11 favorites]
This was SUCH a treat! xoxo, A Billy Joel Fan.
posted by simonelikenina at 9:52 PM on September 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by simonelikenina at 9:52 PM on September 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
Thank you so much for this, Obi-Wan. 16 year old me came for the nostalgia of the Billy Joel album I loved in high school. The much older musically curious me stayed for Kirk’s brilliant explanation of the Purdie shuffle on the Steely Dan Babylon Sisters episode. This man has a gift for explaining musical concepts to otherwise ignorant lovers of music like me. As punchtothehead notes, his unassuming enthusiasm shines through. Just wonderful.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 12:12 AM on September 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Turtles all the way down at 12:12 AM on September 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
Rick Beato’s what makes this song great series is rather good too. He’ll also do quite engaging quick analysis on a rundown of a given streaming chart every now and again- in less depth, but sometimes it’s fun to see him quickly get to grips with the musical bones of a thing.
This one “professional musicians react” is also kind of fun and IMO a bit more beginner friendly in terms of the musical analysis.
posted by aesop at 3:29 AM on September 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
This one “professional musicians react” is also kind of fun and IMO a bit more beginner friendly in terms of the musical analysis.
posted by aesop at 3:29 AM on September 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
Thank you so much for introducing me to this podcast. It's everything I wanted Song Exploder to be, but wasn't. I'm about 20 minutes into it and really digging it. Italian Restaurant is just such a great song, but the spin through the hits from The Stranger at the top of the episode reminded me what a killer album it is.
Rick Beato’s what makes this song great series is rather good too
I generally like Beato, but his grumpy-grandpa shtick tends to grate on me. I get that the business of YouTube sort of demands that you have a gimmick, but "shitting on everything new" is a real hack bit.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:26 AM on September 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
Rick Beato’s what makes this song great series is rather good too
I generally like Beato, but his grumpy-grandpa shtick tends to grate on me. I get that the business of YouTube sort of demands that you have a gimmick, but "shitting on everything new" is a real hack bit.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:26 AM on September 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
When he talks about "stop time" I thought of the Beatles "A Day in the Life."
posted by Obscure Reference at 5:49 AM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Obscure Reference at 5:49 AM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
I never got the “grumpy grandpa” vibe from Beato. If anything, his series lead me to give a relisten to songs I’d written off as awful.
posted by explosion at 5:58 AM on September 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by explosion at 5:58 AM on September 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
I don't want to derail this thread, but when you've got videos about how auto-tune has "ruined" music and complaining about hi-hats being too loud in modern pop hits ... you're a grumpy grandpa, no matter how much love you spread for classic rock.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:11 AM on September 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 6:11 AM on September 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
Trivia: It was originally "Scenes From the Basement Of An Italian Restaurant", but the label suits thought that was too dark, and made him totally rewrite it.
posted by thelonius at 6:37 AM on September 3, 2021
posted by thelonius at 6:37 AM on September 3, 2021
Rick Beato is stuck on music made by males from the 1970s and 80s. I welcome this link to On Strong Songs with Kirk Hamilton to check out.
posted by Bee'sWing at 7:15 AM on September 3, 2021
posted by Bee'sWing at 7:15 AM on September 3, 2021
Thanks for the link, I suddenly love this guy!
My son's guitar teacher can go on and on like this about any song, grabbing a keyboard or guitar or maraca to illustrate a point. IT'S AMAZING.
Even when you don't love the song under discussion, it's simply fantastic to listen to someone knowledgable lead you through it. Really opens up the work, whether or not it's your jam.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:19 AM on September 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
My son's guitar teacher can go on and on like this about any song, grabbing a keyboard or guitar or maraca to illustrate a point. IT'S AMAZING.
Even when you don't love the song under discussion, it's simply fantastic to listen to someone knowledgable lead you through it. Really opens up the work, whether or not it's your jam.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:19 AM on September 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
Looking forward to listening to this, thanks!
Interestingly, I listened to the "Born to Run" album in its entirety for the first time the other night. I've been a Billy Joel fan my entire life, but only know Springsteen's radio hits. I was struck by how reminiscent "Scenes from an Italian Restaurant" is of some of the deeper cuts on "Born to Run." It came out two years later than Springsteen's album, so who knows if the similarities are intentional or coincidental.
I think one of the fairer critiques of Billy Joel is that he doesn't really have his own style but is rather a pastiche of other styles (Streetlife Serenader being a country album, Nylon Curtain a Beatles album, Innocent Man a doo-wop album, etc.). So I'm curious if Italian Restaurant was a bit of Billy absorbing some of Bruce. I see that "Born to Run" is referenced in the podcast, so I'm interested to hear their take on it.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:30 AM on September 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
Interestingly, I listened to the "Born to Run" album in its entirety for the first time the other night. I've been a Billy Joel fan my entire life, but only know Springsteen's radio hits. I was struck by how reminiscent "Scenes from an Italian Restaurant" is of some of the deeper cuts on "Born to Run." It came out two years later than Springsteen's album, so who knows if the similarities are intentional or coincidental.
I think one of the fairer critiques of Billy Joel is that he doesn't really have his own style but is rather a pastiche of other styles (Streetlife Serenader being a country album, Nylon Curtain a Beatles album, Innocent Man a doo-wop album, etc.). So I'm curious if Italian Restaurant was a bit of Billy absorbing some of Bruce. I see that "Born to Run" is referenced in the podcast, so I'm interested to hear their take on it.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:30 AM on September 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'd love to hear Kirk Hamilton discuss Yoko Kanno's work.
"Three, two, one, let's jam!"
posted by humbug at 7:34 AM on September 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
"Three, two, one, let's jam!"
posted by humbug at 7:34 AM on September 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
When he talks about "stop time" I thought of the Beatles "A Day in the Life."
You're in luck!
posted by PussKillian at 7:35 AM on September 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
You're in luck!
posted by PussKillian at 7:35 AM on September 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
Also, during my time as a performer in New York (opera mostly), I auditioned for exactly two Broadway shows. One of them was Movin' Out, the Billy Joel jukebox musical. They were looking for an understudy for the guy who plays and sings all the songs (everyone else is dancers).
The requested audition pieces were the hard piano solo from Italian Restaurant (right before the first Brender and Eddie verse) and the intro to Angry Young Man.
I went to an open call with about 200 guys, many of whom were professional Piano Men from Long Island who did Billy Joel cover shows at local bars. The vibe was almost impossible to describe -- scores of nerdy Italian or Jewish guys ready for their moment to shine. I'll never forget it.
I did ok - didn't get a callback.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:36 AM on September 3, 2021 [18 favorites]
The requested audition pieces were the hard piano solo from Italian Restaurant (right before the first Brender and Eddie verse) and the intro to Angry Young Man.
I went to an open call with about 200 guys, many of whom were professional Piano Men from Long Island who did Billy Joel cover shows at local bars. The vibe was almost impossible to describe -- scores of nerdy Italian or Jewish guys ready for their moment to shine. I'll never forget it.
I did ok - didn't get a callback.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:36 AM on September 3, 2021 [18 favorites]
I think one of the fairer critiques of Billy Joel is that he doesn't really have his own style but is rather a pastiche of other styles
Honestly this is what I love about Joel, and about guys like Adam Schlesinger and, of course, Weird Al. They have an ear for what makes other music work and can apply that to original compositions. It's not a skill everyone has.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:43 AM on September 3, 2021 [8 favorites]
Honestly this is what I love about Joel, and about guys like Adam Schlesinger and, of course, Weird Al. They have an ear for what makes other music work and can apply that to original compositions. It's not a skill everyone has.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:43 AM on September 3, 2021 [8 favorites]
I'm 30 minutes in and holy cow, this is awesome.
I have two teenage sons. One plays piano and clarinet, and the other plays guitar and saxophone. Both are music theory nerds. Can't wait to share this with them.
posted by martin q blank at 8:15 AM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
I have two teenage sons. One plays piano and clarinet, and the other plays guitar and saxophone. Both are music theory nerds. Can't wait to share this with them.
posted by martin q blank at 8:15 AM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
The episode about "Satisfied" from Hamilton is SOOO GOOOOOD. Really increased my enjoyment of the song which I didn't think was even possible.
posted by rogerroger at 9:08 AM on September 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by rogerroger at 9:08 AM on September 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
It's interesting how the song works with different interpretations. He posits that the whole thing is a conversation between two friends. I always saw it as multiple conversations between multiple people -- like with each transition (e.g. Richie Cannata's sax solo), the camera moves around the restaurant to another table where another conversation is happening. First the couple deciding on wine, then the two friends catching up ("things are ok with me these days"), then the people reminiscing about Brender and Eddie and the good old days, and finally a return to the table near the street where the initial couple is still talking about wine.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:18 AM on September 3, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:18 AM on September 3, 2021 [6 favorites]
martin q blank: I have two teenage sons. One plays piano and clarinet, and the other plays guitar and saxophone.
If only you had a third kid who played drums...
Any chance your spouse is interested in learning?
posted by wenestvedt at 9:42 AM on September 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
If only you had a third kid who played drums...
Any chance your spouse is interested in learning?
posted by wenestvedt at 9:42 AM on September 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
Any chance your spouse is interested in learning?
ha. neither she nor I have an ounce of musical talent. no idea where the kids got it from, but I'm glad they did.
posted by martin q blank at 9:44 AM on September 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
ha. neither she nor I have an ounce of musical talent. no idea where the kids got it from, but I'm glad they did.
posted by martin q blank at 9:44 AM on September 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
Good thing I hadn't wanted to accomplish anything today.
posted by MtDewd at 10:33 AM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by MtDewd at 10:33 AM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
Drumming explained: thump, pop, sizzle.
This has become my favorite podcast and I can't recommend it highly enough. Scroll through his archive, pick a song you love. You're likely to love that song even more by the end of the episode.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 10:59 AM on September 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
This has become my favorite podcast and I can't recommend it highly enough. Scroll through his archive, pick a song you love. You're likely to love that song even more by the end of the episode.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 10:59 AM on September 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
So I finished this, and my takeaway was honestly ... I've never noticed how good the bass work is in this track and how hard it works to propel the whole thing. I might argue that it's showing a good bit of disco influence, which would make sense for a working bassist in the late 70s.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:22 AM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by uncleozzy at 11:22 AM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
Thank you very much for this post! I hadn't heard of this podcast before, and now I've listened to three episodes so far ("Fingertips", "A Day in the Life", and "The Chain & Dreams") and am hooked.
posted by theatro at 1:03 PM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by theatro at 1:03 PM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
Holy cats, this was fantastic. Definitely going to check out the others.
Obligatory SFAIR memory: Drunkenly sitting in my car with my bud Sue P (RIP, good friend) in the parking lot of the Black Goose restaurant in Rye, NY, circa 1991 or 1992. We were maybe 24 or 25. After a night of barhopping. Popped this cassette in and Sue and I sang this song, word for word, at full screaming volume. Good times.
Thanks for this great post!
posted by sundrop at 1:12 PM on September 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
Obligatory SFAIR memory: Drunkenly sitting in my car with my bud Sue P (RIP, good friend) in the parking lot of the Black Goose restaurant in Rye, NY, circa 1991 or 1992. We were maybe 24 or 25. After a night of barhopping. Popped this cassette in and Sue and I sang this song, word for word, at full screaming volume. Good times.
Thanks for this great post!
posted by sundrop at 1:12 PM on September 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
Beato doesn't do much from the last decade in his "What Makes This Song Great" series, but he covers more from the 90s and 00s than earlier. And the artist he has expressed the most admiration for is Joni Mitchell. That said, he does very few female artists. It's kinda wearing. I'm looking forward to diving into Strong Songs.
posted by Quasirandom at 1:14 PM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Quasirandom at 1:14 PM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
It's interesting how the song works with different interpretations.
The cinematic interpretation I grew up with: it's the present-day, long-divorced Brenda and Eddie dining and reminiscing in the restaurant, and their story in the 'ballad' portion is like a flashback in a movie. (Not Joel's intention.) Man, I wish this podcast had transcripts.
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:36 PM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
The cinematic interpretation I grew up with: it's the present-day, long-divorced Brenda and Eddie dining and reminiscing in the restaurant, and their story in the 'ballad' portion is like a flashback in a movie. (Not Joel's intention.) Man, I wish this podcast had transcripts.
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:36 PM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
When he's performed live the band is drinking wine around a table, so that puts a whole 'nuther spin on it.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:42 PM on September 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:42 PM on September 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
I saw this just in time for my six hour drive today. I started off with “Satisfied” — so good! Thank you, ob1quixote.
posted by Songdog at 1:55 PM on September 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Songdog at 1:55 PM on September 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
Kirk can sure play a lot of instruments.
This one has him on: flute, clarinet, alto and tenor sax, melodica, whistle, vocals, xylophone, shaker, shells, promotional coffee mug, acoustic and electric guitar, ukulele, piano, bass, drums, and wine glasses.
posted by MtDewd at 1:58 PM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
This one has him on: flute, clarinet, alto and tenor sax, melodica, whistle, vocals, xylophone, shaker, shells, promotional coffee mug, acoustic and electric guitar, ukulele, piano, bass, drums, and wine glasses.
posted by MtDewd at 1:58 PM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
Thanks - also a fan of songexploder so looking forward to checking this out.
On a side note, my brain keeps parsing "Kirk Hamilton" as "Kirk Cameron", and now I am wondering what his version of a podcast called "Strong songs" would be be about.
posted by piyushnz at 4:05 PM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
On a side note, my brain keeps parsing "Kirk Hamilton" as "Kirk Cameron", and now I am wondering what his version of a podcast called "Strong songs" would be be about.
posted by piyushnz at 4:05 PM on September 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
Probably his original hymns about evolution being false.
I enjoyed this very much, thanks.
posted by bq at 5:15 PM on September 3, 2021
I enjoyed this very much, thanks.
posted by bq at 5:15 PM on September 3, 2021
I listened to the "You Can Call Me Al" episode this afternoon, and it was so great. This guy is awesome!
posted by wenestvedt at 6:31 PM on September 3, 2021
posted by wenestvedt at 6:31 PM on September 3, 2021
This is definitely a quality podcast but the uncut enthusiasm made me cringe. Regardless, I listened the whole way through. Content creation is tough and I’m glad this is out there for people to enjoy.
My main criticism is that this song is sad clown as heck. He should have said that. Then I would have liked it more and patreoned maybe.
Phil Ramone is a G though. Tom toms are way too dead but in a good way
posted by dagosto at 9:00 PM on September 3, 2021
My main criticism is that this song is sad clown as heck. He should have said that. Then I would have liked it more and patreoned maybe.
Phil Ramone is a G though. Tom toms are way too dead but in a good way
posted by dagosto at 9:00 PM on September 3, 2021
Listened to a few now, definitely going to become a new favorite for me.
posted by aesop at 12:15 AM on September 4, 2021
posted by aesop at 12:15 AM on September 4, 2021
I quite enjoy Strong Songs so far, after listening to several episodes. Hamilton is maybe a bit too enthusiastic at times, the Wuthering Heights episode is kinda funny for it as it is relatively new to him and that shows at times, but he does do something that many similar podcasts don't in trying to provide at least some semblance of a overall emotional logic to the pieces he covers, to varying degrees.
The lack of that can make a lot of the other podcasts fail to do what they claim, even as that doesn't mean they aren't doing something worthwhile and valuable. Beato's podcast, for example, doesn't really tell you at all why a song if great, he just picks songs he thinks are exceptional and isolates the constituent details to allow the listener to hear them better, while saying stuff like "That's great!" or "In the pocket!". The focus on detail is welcome and useful, it gives the listener a chance to sort out the complexity of the song to hear the underlying elements, but things like simply listing chord changes and individual performers isn't itself revealing of why this song instead of that song is saying something more to the listener. You could provide the same break down of elements for any song, listing whatever chord changes and highlighting performance elements, but if you aren't providing a more cohesive conception of the whole, you aren't entirely answering the question of why a particular song is great, especially for the untrained listener.
Focusing on detail can certainly be part of why a song appeals to some, the better trained or more experienced listeners perhaps even more so, but there is something more to how all the details fit together to form an exceptional emotionally cohesive experience than that which is more where the real "why" of a song being great lies. Hamilton does this more than any of the other podcasters and most popular writers on songs do, but even he sort of lets that ball drop sometimes by getting too caught up in going from this detail to the next without stepping back and offering some suggestion on why those elements work with each other meaningfully in this instance, where just copying that pattern wouldn't work in others. Why, for example, Babylon Sisters is of special significance but, say, Glamour Profession from the same album with the same personnel isn't.
Even that being the case though, the way Hamilton digs into the songs gives the interested listener a much better path to answering that question for themselves by the way he follows the detailed flow of the song, suggesting why a given element stands out. So, for example, when he draws attention to the jarring sharpness in the entrance of the back up singers' "Babylon sisters shake it", it can help crystalize how that fits into a larger logic of the song. (Hamilton may be avoiding this question more purposefully here as the "narrator" of the song has some, um, questionable attitudes that may be hard to sell as being part of a strong song.)
With Scenes from an Italian Restaurant, Hamilton gives a read of the overall method of the song by linking it to a five course meal and drawing out how different elements, like the New Orleans sax lick, fit to the lyrics and the mood conveyed. That a fine hook to hang the podcast's path through the song on. He also places welcome emphasis on the physicality of the music, which is often such a vital element of the logic of a song.
But that still leaves the question of what the overall logic in why the whole takes the structure it does beyond "five course meal" and why the Brenda and Eddie section is a part of it in terms of a deeper logic. I don't mean some strict interpretation of what it has to "mean", that kind of reading is often as limiting as enriching, but just a greater sense of why the story of Brenda and Eddie is fit into the story of an Italian restaurant or, beyond it exciting a live audience, what the totality this five course meal of a song provides. He likens the Brenda and Eddie part to Born to Run, but isn't it more Glory Days and doesn't that element of nostalgia provide a different kind of read to the emotions? Not of the present, but in relating the past?
But, as I said, I dig the podcast for how it approaches its songs and, at least, giving some better window into their logic and find Hamilton to be a generally compelling host who is interested in putting the pieces together, just, perhaps, allowing the excitement of describing the detail and flow from his vantage point of clear expertise forget other considerations as they may be self evident to him or not even something considered due to the same.
Anyway, the tldr summary: Thanks for the post, I really enjoy the podcast!
posted by gusottertrout at 1:52 AM on September 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
The lack of that can make a lot of the other podcasts fail to do what they claim, even as that doesn't mean they aren't doing something worthwhile and valuable. Beato's podcast, for example, doesn't really tell you at all why a song if great, he just picks songs he thinks are exceptional and isolates the constituent details to allow the listener to hear them better, while saying stuff like "That's great!" or "In the pocket!". The focus on detail is welcome and useful, it gives the listener a chance to sort out the complexity of the song to hear the underlying elements, but things like simply listing chord changes and individual performers isn't itself revealing of why this song instead of that song is saying something more to the listener. You could provide the same break down of elements for any song, listing whatever chord changes and highlighting performance elements, but if you aren't providing a more cohesive conception of the whole, you aren't entirely answering the question of why a particular song is great, especially for the untrained listener.
Focusing on detail can certainly be part of why a song appeals to some, the better trained or more experienced listeners perhaps even more so, but there is something more to how all the details fit together to form an exceptional emotionally cohesive experience than that which is more where the real "why" of a song being great lies. Hamilton does this more than any of the other podcasters and most popular writers on songs do, but even he sort of lets that ball drop sometimes by getting too caught up in going from this detail to the next without stepping back and offering some suggestion on why those elements work with each other meaningfully in this instance, where just copying that pattern wouldn't work in others. Why, for example, Babylon Sisters is of special significance but, say, Glamour Profession from the same album with the same personnel isn't.
Even that being the case though, the way Hamilton digs into the songs gives the interested listener a much better path to answering that question for themselves by the way he follows the detailed flow of the song, suggesting why a given element stands out. So, for example, when he draws attention to the jarring sharpness in the entrance of the back up singers' "Babylon sisters shake it", it can help crystalize how that fits into a larger logic of the song. (Hamilton may be avoiding this question more purposefully here as the "narrator" of the song has some, um, questionable attitudes that may be hard to sell as being part of a strong song.)
With Scenes from an Italian Restaurant, Hamilton gives a read of the overall method of the song by linking it to a five course meal and drawing out how different elements, like the New Orleans sax lick, fit to the lyrics and the mood conveyed. That a fine hook to hang the podcast's path through the song on. He also places welcome emphasis on the physicality of the music, which is often such a vital element of the logic of a song.
But that still leaves the question of what the overall logic in why the whole takes the structure it does beyond "five course meal" and why the Brenda and Eddie section is a part of it in terms of a deeper logic. I don't mean some strict interpretation of what it has to "mean", that kind of reading is often as limiting as enriching, but just a greater sense of why the story of Brenda and Eddie is fit into the story of an Italian restaurant or, beyond it exciting a live audience, what the totality this five course meal of a song provides. He likens the Brenda and Eddie part to Born to Run, but isn't it more Glory Days and doesn't that element of nostalgia provide a different kind of read to the emotions? Not of the present, but in relating the past?
But, as I said, I dig the podcast for how it approaches its songs and, at least, giving some better window into their logic and find Hamilton to be a generally compelling host who is interested in putting the pieces together, just, perhaps, allowing the excitement of describing the detail and flow from his vantage point of clear expertise forget other considerations as they may be self evident to him or not even something considered due to the same.
Anyway, the tldr summary: Thanks for the post, I really enjoy the podcast!
posted by gusottertrout at 1:52 AM on September 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
And of course the very next episode I choose, Bjork's Hyperballad does pretty much what I was asking for, so I'm definitely going to keep listening.
posted by gusottertrout at 4:17 AM on September 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by gusottertrout at 4:17 AM on September 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Really digging this. As a musician, I sometimes skip past the basic theory bits (1-4-5 chords, blues structure, etc), but he points out at least a few details I hadn't heard in every episode I've listened to so far, even songs I've heard a thousand times.
I was fascinated by the one on Jeff Buckley's "Last Goodbye," for example - that is an intricate and subtle piece of work. And the vocal harmonies on the chorus of Toto's "Africa" are amazing. The backstory of "I Will Always Love You," and how stunning Whitney Houston's singing is on her version.
His analyses often lead me to notice even more cool details or connections he doesn't touch on. I almost wish it was a conversation, not a podcast, and that the episodes were even longer. I'll definitely hear those songs in a new way now.
posted by El Curioso at 12:15 PM on September 7, 2021
I was fascinated by the one on Jeff Buckley's "Last Goodbye," for example - that is an intricate and subtle piece of work. And the vocal harmonies on the chorus of Toto's "Africa" are amazing. The backstory of "I Will Always Love You," and how stunning Whitney Houston's singing is on her version.
His analyses often lead me to notice even more cool details or connections he doesn't touch on. I almost wish it was a conversation, not a podcast, and that the episodes were even longer. I'll definitely hear those songs in a new way now.
posted by El Curioso at 12:15 PM on September 7, 2021
Thanks for this, never knew the song. As stated in the other thread I never gave Billy Joel much attention but now I'm in a Deep Dive of his work and you might even say I'm a fan!
posted by Rash at 7:57 PM on September 7, 2021
posted by Rash at 7:57 PM on September 7, 2021
I was going to post the podcast to fanfare, but I'm unable since I'm unable to add it to their "feed". Probably because I just listen via the webpage on a computer and have never done otherwise for a podcast of any sort.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:27 AM on September 8, 2021
posted by gusottertrout at 1:27 AM on September 8, 2021
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Kirk is like the sort of shy guy who comes to a party at your house and hangs out with you in the kitchen while you do food stuff, and you ask the right question and he just comes alive. He's so enthusiastic and curious, and I have learned so, so much about music - especially music theory, which was always my weak spot - from the podcast.
I've listened to a few of the episodes repeatedly - the I Will Always Love You episode is a real gem. I think one of the biggest benefits of Strong Songs isn't the dissection of songs I know and love, though; the episodes that I've learned the most from are the ones about songs or musicians who I didn't know or didn't like. I've always enjoyed and loved music, but Strong Songs has made me respect musicians and their work, their ingenuity, so much more.
Because of Kirk I've started playing piano again, and I got super into jazz, and I've become absolutely unabashed in my love for ABBA, who have reunited after 40 years to release an album. A+ podcast, A+ person.
posted by punchtothehead at 6:44 PM on September 2, 2021 [17 favorites]