Joe Manchin's Dirty Empire
October 16, 2021 7:06 PM Subscribe
Welp, asshole.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:03 PM on October 16, 2021
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:03 PM on October 16, 2021
I just feel like capitalism is like so efficient and effective
posted by glaucon at 9:21 PM on October 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by glaucon at 9:21 PM on October 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
This is why the Senate exists, and always has been
posted by moorooka at 9:38 PM on October 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by moorooka at 9:38 PM on October 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
The purpose of a system is what it does.
posted by kaibutsu at 11:13 PM on October 16, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by kaibutsu at 11:13 PM on October 16, 2021 [15 favorites]
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair
posted by jim in austin at 5:14 AM on October 17, 2021 [31 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 5:14 AM on October 17, 2021 [31 favorites]
Amazing what people will turn a blind eye to for money, isn't it?
I think it depends how cynical one is. I would like to be amazed, but I am not. It's weird to say this, but this is lightweight compared to the Australian National Party.
Once a government makes even a bullshit centrist not-really-decarbonisation plan public, big carbon assets become less valuable, to the point of strandedness, which means a big proportion of that 'value' can ("should/must" if you're a resource economist) be diverted to buying pollies.
posted by pompomtom at 5:44 AM on October 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
I think it depends how cynical one is. I would like to be amazed, but I am not. It's weird to say this, but this is lightweight compared to the Australian National Party.
Once a government makes even a bullshit centrist not-really-decarbonisation plan public, big carbon assets become less valuable, to the point of strandedness, which means a big proportion of that 'value' can ("should/must" if you're a resource economist) be diverted to buying pollies.
posted by pompomtom at 5:44 AM on October 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
Here’s what I don’t understand.
Do people think the dems stand a chance in the senatorial midterms? Do we think that we’ll have control of the house and senate in late 2022? Do we think there’s even a good chance that we lose one?
Because if not, THIS IS IT. 2024 is another ballgame. There is no long game here about climate legislation or hard-to-derail renewable infrastructure. None.
Why aren’t we being creative? Why isn’t the white house flexing its serious muscles, LBJ style.
“Hey Manchin, we’ll buy your shares or give you controlling interest in an electrical program in WV that we build (within the limits of climate-appropriateness).. We will guarantee employment to EVERY miner and coalworker in your state if any of these businesses close. If not we’ll use:
i) Defense production Act
ii) Military order - perhaps we send a bunch of marines there
iiii) Executive Order
iii) Some other mechanism
To forcibly set up a competitor to your interests in your state. Also, we’ll ruinously audit all of your companies, and all the shells you've set up for your families"
I mean, if the climate emergency is REAL, this is it. It would be so cheap to buy this retrogressive fossil-shit out of his direct interests, employ ppl, and bully him out of his indirect ones with larger energy companies. this is 1.5tn of spend on climate that is on the line here. We could buy this fuck and his family lock stock and barrel $1B cash, and employ all the people for another $10B.
posted by lalochezia at 5:46 AM on October 17, 2021 [33 favorites]
Do people think the dems stand a chance in the senatorial midterms? Do we think that we’ll have control of the house and senate in late 2022? Do we think there’s even a good chance that we lose one?
Because if not, THIS IS IT. 2024 is another ballgame. There is no long game here about climate legislation or hard-to-derail renewable infrastructure. None.
Why aren’t we being creative? Why isn’t the white house flexing its serious muscles, LBJ style.
“Hey Manchin, we’ll buy your shares or give you controlling interest in an electrical program in WV that we build (within the limits of climate-appropriateness).. We will guarantee employment to EVERY miner and coalworker in your state if any of these businesses close. If not we’ll use:
i) Defense production Act
ii) Military order - perhaps we send a bunch of marines there
iiii) Executive Order
iii) Some other mechanism
To forcibly set up a competitor to your interests in your state. Also, we’ll ruinously audit all of your companies, and all the shells you've set up for your families"
I mean, if the climate emergency is REAL, this is it. It would be so cheap to buy this retrogressive fossil-shit out of his direct interests, employ ppl, and bully him out of his indirect ones with larger energy companies. this is 1.5tn of spend on climate that is on the line here. We could buy this fuck and his family lock stock and barrel $1B cash, and employ all the people for another $10B.
posted by lalochezia at 5:46 AM on October 17, 2021 [33 favorites]
Because if not, THIS IS IT.
No more chance of cashing in, personally, after this term? Is that what you're saying?
posted by pompomtom at 6:04 AM on October 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
No more chance of cashing in, personally, after this term? Is that what you're saying?
posted by pompomtom at 6:04 AM on October 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
This article in The Atlantic about the American Gentry doesn't mention him by name, but it did a lot to aid my understanding of Joe Manchin.
posted by box at 6:18 AM on October 17, 2021
posted by box at 6:18 AM on October 17, 2021
Also, we’ll ruinously audit all of your companies, and all the shells you've set up for your familiesThat would be mightily unpopular with a lot of senators both Democrat and Republican.
posted by fullerine at 6:19 AM on October 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
My guess is that if Biden et al are struggling to make things happen that you or I would, too, and that assuming a simple lack of boldness or creativity is a bit too simple.
There really is no Democratic, let alone solidly progressive, majority in either chamber. Sinema and Manchin are useful for committee appointments, judicial and cabinet appointments and cutting down on endless Senate investigations of Hunter Biden. Otherwise, not much.
posted by argybarg at 6:45 AM on October 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
There really is no Democratic, let alone solidly progressive, majority in either chamber. Sinema and Manchin are useful for committee appointments, judicial and cabinet appointments and cutting down on endless Senate investigations of Hunter Biden. Otherwise, not much.
posted by argybarg at 6:45 AM on October 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
A lot of assumptions here that Manchin is in the game *solely* to enrich himself combined with doing some form of public service for the state of WV, and can therefore be "bought" to do something better if the White House just aggressively puts a higher bid and better options for him on the table. But he's not only in it for himself; this is his family, his friends, his friends of friends - this his entire personal and professional network. This is his life, his "business community" of "good people who have helped each other out over the years/decades". They golf, have dinner parties, vacation together, do holidays together. He is entrenched.
Like a tech/finance company that does some volunteer work and spouts corporate social responsibility pablum and promotes diversity initiatives for PR purposes, "Helping working West Virginians" is an annoying little part of his job that he has to perform to do his real job, which is enriching his circle of people and being a servant to power and business. This is all business, he is a business guy, this is his world. This is what it means to be a corporate democrat (or effectively any republican). You're not just here to make money, you're here to make your entire network money, and they are your BFFs 4 Life and you would never fuck them over.
posted by windbox at 6:48 AM on October 17, 2021 [27 favorites]
Like a tech/finance company that does some volunteer work and spouts corporate social responsibility pablum and promotes diversity initiatives for PR purposes, "Helping working West Virginians" is an annoying little part of his job that he has to perform to do his real job, which is enriching his circle of people and being a servant to power and business. This is all business, he is a business guy, this is his world. This is what it means to be a corporate democrat (or effectively any republican). You're not just here to make money, you're here to make your entire network money, and they are your BFFs 4 Life and you would never fuck them over.
posted by windbox at 6:48 AM on October 17, 2021 [27 favorites]
I don't give a shit about Joe Manchin or his friends, so I guess my question is, why can't the Democrats wield a stick here, or ever? How is it that Trump was able to intimidate his people into falling in line, and the democratic party is just forced to watch people like Manchin and Sinema blast diarrhea all over any attempt to make progress? I have no love for Trump, but I sure wish Joe Biden had his ability to strike fear. He might actually get something done.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:14 AM on October 17, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:14 AM on October 17, 2021 [8 favorites]
I don't give a shit about Joe Manchin or his friends, so I guess my question is, why can't the Democrats wield a stick here, or ever? How is it that Trump was able to intimidate his people into falling in line, and the democratic party is just forced to watch people like Manchin and Sinema blast diarrhea all over any attempt to make progress?
a) Eh, I don't think him (and Sinema) don't give a shit that you don't give a shit. They give a shit about their rich friends and family and that's about it
b) Because at the end of the day there wasn't REALLY much "fear" being stricken by Trump to the R's. Sure, they were annoyed by how crass and embarrassing he was from an "ugh this guy really isn't the best PR for looking professional, but the frothing masses like him so we'll roll with it" standpoint, and that's kind of the extent of it. I don't think there's actually that much fear-striking or stick-beating in the republican party! They're an otherwise *extremely* solid coalition of Business Dudes doin' Business, and Trump was, at the end of the day, on that team. Kayfabe over "civility" regardless.
I also have no love for Trump, and I sure as hell have no love for the Republican party, but I am envious of how solid their coalition is and how easily they will unify over a common goal, which is just pure profit. Would be nice if Dems could unify as an opposition party on a common goal of working people and marginalized people! But instead we have a significant enough number of them still on Team Profit, putting a D next to their name anyway while doing some moderately successful Corporate Social Responsibility PR.
posted by windbox at 9:22 AM on October 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
a) Eh, I don't think him (and Sinema) don't give a shit that you don't give a shit. They give a shit about their rich friends and family and that's about it
b) Because at the end of the day there wasn't REALLY much "fear" being stricken by Trump to the R's. Sure, they were annoyed by how crass and embarrassing he was from an "ugh this guy really isn't the best PR for looking professional, but the frothing masses like him so we'll roll with it" standpoint, and that's kind of the extent of it. I don't think there's actually that much fear-striking or stick-beating in the republican party! They're an otherwise *extremely* solid coalition of Business Dudes doin' Business, and Trump was, at the end of the day, on that team. Kayfabe over "civility" regardless.
I also have no love for Trump, and I sure as hell have no love for the Republican party, but I am envious of how solid their coalition is and how easily they will unify over a common goal, which is just pure profit. Would be nice if Dems could unify as an opposition party on a common goal of working people and marginalized people! But instead we have a significant enough number of them still on Team Profit, putting a D next to their name anyway while doing some moderately successful Corporate Social Responsibility PR.
posted by windbox at 9:22 AM on October 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
Biden and Shumer have no stick to wield against Manchin. He can become a Republican and be reelected with 70% of the vote if they push him too hard.
As Windbox says from an unsympathetic perspective, business/rich people Democrats exist. They have been an indispensable aspect of victory of every Democrat President and Democratic Congressional majority. This doesn't mean that elections can't be won without them (a Sanders nomination in 2020 could have been a great test!) but it means that there is no evidence that they can. Business/rich Democrats are also the social, professional and family sea in which most progressive Democrats swim, and if they entered office young, where their spouses and (out of office) they have to work if they want the personal trappings of American prosperity ... which smart people, however personally left wing, overwhelmingly do.
Also - Trump got Republicans in Congress to do only the things that Republicans in Congress already wanted to do: confirm Federalist Society judges, confirm pro-business regulators, and cut some taxes. His signature initiatives that weren't already in the Republican playbook went nowhere.
posted by MattD at 9:32 AM on October 17, 2021 [10 favorites]
As Windbox says from an unsympathetic perspective, business/rich people Democrats exist. They have been an indispensable aspect of victory of every Democrat President and Democratic Congressional majority. This doesn't mean that elections can't be won without them (a Sanders nomination in 2020 could have been a great test!) but it means that there is no evidence that they can. Business/rich Democrats are also the social, professional and family sea in which most progressive Democrats swim, and if they entered office young, where their spouses and (out of office) they have to work if they want the personal trappings of American prosperity ... which smart people, however personally left wing, overwhelmingly do.
Also - Trump got Republicans in Congress to do only the things that Republicans in Congress already wanted to do: confirm Federalist Society judges, confirm pro-business regulators, and cut some taxes. His signature initiatives that weren't already in the Republican playbook went nowhere.
posted by MattD at 9:32 AM on October 17, 2021 [10 favorites]
I’m not convinced Trump made Republicans fall in line. Falling in line is what Republicans do. If you don’t like falling in line, you don’t get far in the party to begin with.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:57 AM on October 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:57 AM on October 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Trump's electoral coattails were iffy, and his legislative accomplishments were feeble. There was a tax cut and what else? He was elected to piss off the Left and get judicial appointments, and both happened.
This idea that there is some magic Gumption & Pluck that elected officials lack but which we would easily exercise is at best a silly fantasy to indulge in.
posted by argybarg at 10:48 AM on October 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
This idea that there is some magic Gumption & Pluck that elected officials lack but which we would easily exercise is at best a silly fantasy to indulge in.
posted by argybarg at 10:48 AM on October 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
Here's what you do, if you're a national Democrat with any real power. You use that real power to dig up anything that even looks halfway shady about Heather Bresch, Manchin's daughter, and her involvement in the Epipen price fixing. You have a friendly WV democrat hand deliver one copy of it to Manchin, and tell him that if he even looks at Joe Biden funny the other copy gets leaked to the press.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:46 PM on October 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:46 PM on October 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Bill McKibben on Manchin's wreck of Biden's bill.
posted by doctornemo at 1:57 PM on October 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by doctornemo at 1:57 PM on October 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
I don’t think the press publishing details of Manchin’s daughter’s involvement in price fixing would have an effect on anything.
posted by argybarg at 3:45 PM on October 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by argybarg at 3:45 PM on October 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Why isn’t the white house flexing its serious muscles, LBJ style.
89th United States Congress
January 3, 1965
Senate: 68 Democrats, 32 Republicans
House: 295 Democrats, 140 Republicans
117th United States Congress
January 3, 2021
Senate: 48 Democrats, 50 Republicans, 2 Independents
House: 233 Democrats, 195 Republicans, 1 Independent
posted by kirkaracha at 8:06 PM on October 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
89th United States Congress
January 3, 1965
Senate: 68 Democrats, 32 Republicans
House: 295 Democrats, 140 Republicans
117th United States Congress
January 3, 2021
Senate: 48 Democrats, 50 Republicans, 2 Independents
House: 233 Democrats, 195 Republicans, 1 Independent
posted by kirkaracha at 8:06 PM on October 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
Biden and Shumer have no stick to wield against Manchin. He can become a Republican and be reelected with 70% of the vote if they push him too hard.
Eh, Manchin's barely above water at 42% approval right now, which is far below the state's Governor and Republican Senator. I get the feeling he's toast if he runs again against an actual Republican, but I think he's set to retire anyway.
I'm also still not entirely sure Manchin and Sinema still aren't lightening rods for a larger group of Democratic Senators who aren't on board with the bill but don't want to make their opposition public. I'm also not entirely both Senators, particularly Sinema, aren't angling for an even more lucrative career as a lobbyist when they leave the Senate.
Do people think the dems stand a chance in the senatorial midterms? Do we think that we’ll have control of the house and senate in late 2022? Do we think there’s even a good chance that we lose one?
Because if not, THIS IS IT. 2024 is another ballgame. There is no long game here about climate legislation or hard-to-derail renewable infrastructure. None.
That's when the left gets blamed for the loss for pushing Biden to be too ambitious with his agenda. Or maybe I'm being too pessimissic; maybe they'll just blame AOC et. al.
89th United States Congress
January 3, 1965
Senate: 68 Democrats, 32 Republicans
House: 295 Democrats, 140 Republicans
117th United States Congress
January 3, 2021
Senate: 48 Democrats, 50 Republicans, 2 Independents
House: 233 Democrats, 195 Republicans, 1 Independent
I guess it depends how seriously the powers that be in the Democratic party take the idea that climate change is an existential threat, not to mention the slow death wrot by the continued fraying of the American healthcare system and safety net.
Still, I kind of fear your right that there isn't much they can do absent super extraordinary measures like sicing the FBI on the Manchin family. Even that might not be enough. The Senate is working as designed, after all. Do you feel your populist passions have cooled sufficiently yet?
The time for Democrats to act to make structural changes to the US economy was when they had huge majorities from 2008 to 2010. Obviously that didn't happen for numerous reasons, so now here we are.....
posted by eagles123 at 8:18 PM on October 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Eh, Manchin's barely above water at 42% approval right now, which is far below the state's Governor and Republican Senator. I get the feeling he's toast if he runs again against an actual Republican, but I think he's set to retire anyway.
I'm also still not entirely sure Manchin and Sinema still aren't lightening rods for a larger group of Democratic Senators who aren't on board with the bill but don't want to make their opposition public. I'm also not entirely both Senators, particularly Sinema, aren't angling for an even more lucrative career as a lobbyist when they leave the Senate.
Do people think the dems stand a chance in the senatorial midterms? Do we think that we’ll have control of the house and senate in late 2022? Do we think there’s even a good chance that we lose one?
Because if not, THIS IS IT. 2024 is another ballgame. There is no long game here about climate legislation or hard-to-derail renewable infrastructure. None.
That's when the left gets blamed for the loss for pushing Biden to be too ambitious with his agenda. Or maybe I'm being too pessimissic; maybe they'll just blame AOC et. al.
89th United States Congress
January 3, 1965
Senate: 68 Democrats, 32 Republicans
House: 295 Democrats, 140 Republicans
117th United States Congress
January 3, 2021
Senate: 48 Democrats, 50 Republicans, 2 Independents
House: 233 Democrats, 195 Republicans, 1 Independent
I guess it depends how seriously the powers that be in the Democratic party take the idea that climate change is an existential threat, not to mention the slow death wrot by the continued fraying of the American healthcare system and safety net.
Still, I kind of fear your right that there isn't much they can do absent super extraordinary measures like sicing the FBI on the Manchin family. Even that might not be enough. The Senate is working as designed, after all. Do you feel your populist passions have cooled sufficiently yet?
The time for Democrats to act to make structural changes to the US economy was when they had huge majorities from 2008 to 2010. Obviously that didn't happen for numerous reasons, so now here we are.....
posted by eagles123 at 8:18 PM on October 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
I don't give a shit about Joe Manchin or his friends, so I guess my question is, why can't the Democrats wield a stick here, or ever? How is it that Trump was able to intimidate his people into falling in line
So many thoughts:
a) Trump the candidate wasn't particularly interested in the long term viability of the Republican party, its values, or respecting its establishment, which heightens his credibility when his team threatens to 'primary' people blocking his agenda. Manchin, by declaring he does not intend to run for re-election, is presumably immune to this form of pressure. Also, primarying a House Rep is more effective than a Senator, due to the difference in term length.
b) You could try sending the IRS and the FBI to Manchin's house, but not only would this precipitate a constitutional crisis, but it would be counter productive if you actually need his vote. Imagine how corrupt you would look by launching a probe into a political opponent, and then calling off the investigation when they vote 'correctly.' And if you don't call off prosecution, you absolutely don't have his vote. This kind of suggestion is exactly why, after J. Edgar Hoover, FBI directors are now limited to a single 10 year term.
c) In 2017, The GOP had 52 senators, and 224 representatives. Stronger majorities substantially reduce bargaining power of holdouts. The only Trump era legislation I can recall was the tax plan, where some Rs voted against it yet it still passed. If you want a strong national agenda you need strong national support, which hasn't materialized.
d) I'm not sure Republicans actually fell in line to achieve his agenda so much as President Trump's agenda changed so often it's hard to remember was supposed to achieve beyond 'Making America Great Again.' He appointed a bunch of judges, but you can't attach riders to an up/down confirmation vote, and any GOP member passing an opportunity to overturn Roe might as well not run for re-election. Trump failed to repeal Obamacare, he failed to drain any swamps, the wall was never built, and he publicly complained when congress sanctioned Russia with a veto proof 98-2 majority.
e) Relatedly, many of the things Trump considers 'wins' required no input from Congress. The muslim ban, deportations, revoking DACA, firing most of the democrats in the DoJ, torpedoing the TPP, a completely counterproductive trade war with china; none of this required congressional horsetrading. It seems like the man who's face is on the cover of The Art of the Deal was actually a pretty loathe to negotiate legislation.
f) There are plenty of opponents to trump within the GOP. Many of the Senator's names you will recognize as the people who voted against repealing ACA, or voting against confirmations.
posted by pwnguin at 10:57 PM on October 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
So many thoughts:
a) Trump the candidate wasn't particularly interested in the long term viability of the Republican party, its values, or respecting its establishment, which heightens his credibility when his team threatens to 'primary' people blocking his agenda. Manchin, by declaring he does not intend to run for re-election, is presumably immune to this form of pressure. Also, primarying a House Rep is more effective than a Senator, due to the difference in term length.
b) You could try sending the IRS and the FBI to Manchin's house, but not only would this precipitate a constitutional crisis, but it would be counter productive if you actually need his vote. Imagine how corrupt you would look by launching a probe into a political opponent, and then calling off the investigation when they vote 'correctly.' And if you don't call off prosecution, you absolutely don't have his vote. This kind of suggestion is exactly why, after J. Edgar Hoover, FBI directors are now limited to a single 10 year term.
c) In 2017, The GOP had 52 senators, and 224 representatives. Stronger majorities substantially reduce bargaining power of holdouts. The only Trump era legislation I can recall was the tax plan, where some Rs voted against it yet it still passed. If you want a strong national agenda you need strong national support, which hasn't materialized.
d) I'm not sure Republicans actually fell in line to achieve his agenda so much as President Trump's agenda changed so often it's hard to remember was supposed to achieve beyond 'Making America Great Again.' He appointed a bunch of judges, but you can't attach riders to an up/down confirmation vote, and any GOP member passing an opportunity to overturn Roe might as well not run for re-election. Trump failed to repeal Obamacare, he failed to drain any swamps, the wall was never built, and he publicly complained when congress sanctioned Russia with a veto proof 98-2 majority.
e) Relatedly, many of the things Trump considers 'wins' required no input from Congress. The muslim ban, deportations, revoking DACA, firing most of the democrats in the DoJ, torpedoing the TPP, a completely counterproductive trade war with china; none of this required congressional horsetrading. It seems like the man who's face is on the cover of The Art of the Deal was actually a pretty loathe to negotiate legislation.
f) There are plenty of opponents to trump within the GOP. Many of the Senator's names you will recognize as the people who voted against repealing ACA, or voting against confirmations.
posted by pwnguin at 10:57 PM on October 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
89th United States CongressYeah, but don't forget that LBJ had to pass legislation against the interests of the Southern Democrats.
January 3, 1965
Senate: 68 Democrats, 32 Republicans
House: 295 Democrats, 140 Republicans
The comparison is good, it just proves the opposite you imply. LBJ had to twist the arms of dozens of Democratic Senators instead of just two.
posted by kmt at 11:43 PM on October 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
I don't give a shit about Joe Manchin or his friends, so I guess my question is, why can't the Democrats wield a stick here, or ever? How is it that Trump was able to intimidate his people into falling in line
The Democrats don't have a stick to wave. Manchin is aware that he is the 50th senator required to create a tie. He cannot be threatened with a primary challenger because another Democrat would be unelectable in West Virginia. He cannot be threatened with withdrawing support or being thrown out of the caucus, because his vote is needed not just once but repeatedly. Democrats appear to have no other leverage on him on this issue, where his personal views are not aligned to broader Democrat norms.
Republicans do fall into line a lot on some issues. But the equivalent to Manchin is Susan Collins or previously John McCain. They sometimes did not fall into line.
posted by plonkee at 6:28 AM on October 18, 2021 [3 favorites]
The Democrats don't have a stick to wave. Manchin is aware that he is the 50th senator required to create a tie. He cannot be threatened with a primary challenger because another Democrat would be unelectable in West Virginia. He cannot be threatened with withdrawing support or being thrown out of the caucus, because his vote is needed not just once but repeatedly. Democrats appear to have no other leverage on him on this issue, where his personal views are not aligned to broader Democrat norms.
Republicans do fall into line a lot on some issues. But the equivalent to Manchin is Susan Collins or previously John McCain. They sometimes did not fall into line.
posted by plonkee at 6:28 AM on October 18, 2021 [3 favorites]
I also have no love for Trump, and I sure as hell have no love for the Republican party, but I am envious of how solid their coalition is and how easily they will unify over a common goal, which is just pure profit. Would be nice if Dems could unify as an opposition party on a common goal of working people and marginalized people! But instead we have a significant enough number of them still on Team Profit, putting a D next to their name anyway while doing some moderately successful Corporate Social Responsibility PR.
Pretty sure we had something like that, but Clinton took the republican dare to excise the "Loony Left" and set whatever progressive wing there was adrift for the next few decades. I don't hold out any hope that any progress will be made on climate...at least not until some climate disaster or crop failure gets folks attention for real. And then the solution will be so draconian, it'll either have to be implemented by force or we'll find it "too expensive" and a lot folks will suffer and die.
If I was 15 (like my kid) I'd wanna blow something up.
posted by black8 at 3:17 PM on October 18, 2021
Pretty sure we had something like that, but Clinton took the republican dare to excise the "Loony Left" and set whatever progressive wing there was adrift for the next few decades. I don't hold out any hope that any progress will be made on climate...at least not until some climate disaster or crop failure gets folks attention for real. And then the solution will be so draconian, it'll either have to be implemented by force or we'll find it "too expensive" and a lot folks will suffer and die.
If I was 15 (like my kid) I'd wanna blow something up.
posted by black8 at 3:17 PM on October 18, 2021
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This wasn't surprising to see - it's pretty obvious what Machin's angle is based on what he's opposed to in the Build Back Better plan, but it's also good to see the Intercept doing good work to get all the dirty details.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 8:38 PM on October 16, 2021 [8 favorites]