The Limits Of Dave Chappelle And Kyrie Irving’s Free-Thinking
October 20, 2021 8:57 AM Subscribe
The Limits Of Dave Chappelle And Kyrie Irving’s Free-Thinking (Defector, alternate link from archive.org)
Until his Instagram Live appearance, the self-proclaimed voice for the voiceless had refused to explain himself before eventually communicating his convoluted rationale by way of anonymous sources. He’s not anti-vaccine per se, but he’s not into getting vaccinated, and he seems to shun masks. He’s an advocate for those who could lose jobs and freedom to mandates, but has exhibited scant regard for those who have lost the same things and more to failed efforts to contain the spread of COVID-19. One hint of legitimate insight could be found in the middle of his meandering: “It’s just about the freedom of what I want to do.” That’s a common marker of free-thinkers: extreme self-centeredness, invariably accompanied by delusions of grandeur and persecution. They mistake the regressive for the subversive. So why can’t we stop talking about these assholes?
I suspect part of the appeal is chaos. Free-thinkers offer us the double boon of escape from an increasingly miserable reality and the vicarious thrill of giving a middle finger to the smug orthodoxy. Another aspect is Kyrie’s fame and hyper-visibility as a uniquely talented NBA champion (not) playing on a team full of famous players in a major media market. Finally, there’s the inescapable fact of his race. Black people are ripe for scapegoating. Our dysfunction is amplified by an ever-present, eager, tightly focused societal gaze. Never mind that such a gaze will always reveal more about the observers than the observed. Anthony Rizzo arguably cost the Yankees home-field advantage in the playoffs by being unvaccinated; Chris Sale was one of several unvaccinated Red Sox players who may very well still be unvaccinated in the playoffs. These are big names in big markets with big contracts. No one cares much.
[...]
Unlike Kyrie Irving, Dave Chappelle has not only the popularity but also the credibility to influence discourse beyond bot-generated talking points (“the NBA let Magic Johnson play with HIV, but Kyrie can’t play without being vaccinated”). He’s a uniquely gifted comedian who has achieved the rare transcendence to sage. His routines have evolved from puerile humor sprinkled with societal insights to American Studies and Civil Rights faux-lectures sprinkled with humor. What a long, strange trip it’s been. Let me state up front: I think Dave Chappelle is a generally brilliant practitioner of his craft. It’s also true that I suffered through his latest special and came away thinking of it as an awkward eulogy for the comedian I long admired. Because Chappelle
has joined the ranks of the free-thinkers. It shouldn’t have surprised me, really. At any given Chappelle standup you might find a who’s who of prominent free-thinking charlatans—Joe Rogan, Elon Musk, Kanye West—united by obscene wealth, conceit, contempt for authority, and a belief that their free-thinking is beyond reproach. Theirs is a view of freedom that is tantamount to selective deregulation: It’s just about the freedom of what I want to do.
[...]
This discourse, in which public intellectuals empowered by social media platforms do battle with celebrities and charlatans for control of important conversations, reminds me of something the scholar Roderick Ferguson wrote: Another aspect of neoliberal strategies is the attempt to remove everyday people from history, from their right to transform the academy and the larger society. Somewhere between insular Twitter communities, academic ivory towers, free-thinking millionaires, and self-congratulatory Hollywood soirees there’s the rest of us. If there’s any dignity and relational spirit out there to still connect our struggles, or a path toward a stronger, more informed democratic society, it won’t be found in Lil Nas X’s mediocre cover of a Dolly Parton record, or her stamp of approval; it isn’t in the graffiti on AOC’s Met gala dress; it ain’t lurking in Marvel’s latest diverse casting choice; there’s no trace of it in Joe Rogan’s discussion of Ivermectin with Dr. Sanjay Gupta; it wasn’t in the shadows of Kyrie’s Instagram Live feed, and it was sadly absent from Chappelle’s Netflix special. I wish we could find a way to get popular discourse to reflect as much.
It’s just about the freedom of what I want to do.
Freedom of being an asshole without consequences, like the good old days.
The lack of consideration of consequences for others seems to be a sadly strong trait nowadays.... Of course, if they are taught to fear and dread us, are we really people at all?
posted by Jacen at 9:48 AM on October 20, 2021 [8 favorites]
Freedom of being an asshole without consequences, like the good old days.
The lack of consideration of consequences for others seems to be a sadly strong trait nowadays.... Of course, if they are taught to fear and dread us, are we really people at all?
posted by Jacen at 9:48 AM on October 20, 2021 [8 favorites]
Freedom of being an asshole without consequences, like the good old days
Except he's not really trying to get away without consequences, is he? He's said that he's okay with losing the money and not playing.
posted by Galvanic at 9:53 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
Except he's not really trying to get away without consequences, is he? He's said that he's okay with losing the money and not playing.
posted by Galvanic at 9:53 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
> Tearing Chapelle to shreds and then wondering why Black men are skeptical is...well...impressive.
I do not see any tension at all between tearing someone to shreds for the bad things they've chosen to say with their massive platform and lamenting the fact that Black men without Chappelle's fame and fortune end up getting redpilled into belief systems that do immense harm marginalized groups.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:53 AM on October 20, 2021 [35 favorites]
I do not see any tension at all between tearing someone to shreds for the bad things they've chosen to say with their massive platform and lamenting the fact that Black men without Chappelle's fame and fortune end up getting redpilled into belief systems that do immense harm marginalized groups.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:53 AM on October 20, 2021 [35 favorites]
Lil Nas X’s mediocre cover of a Dolly Parton record, or her stamp of approval
wow, rude
posted by CrystalDave at 9:53 AM on October 20, 2021 [18 favorites]
wow, rude
posted by CrystalDave at 9:53 AM on October 20, 2021 [18 favorites]
Thinking that Chappelle is the victim here is certainly a take.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 9:55 AM on October 20, 2021 [54 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 9:55 AM on October 20, 2021 [54 favorites]
I've been kind of dreading the perhaps-inevitable Chappelle FPP ever since his special got released last week or whenever. I do not know if this community is prepared to have a discussion about it that does not engage in further marginalization.
I am going to try to leave it at this: Chappelle has pretty much always had insightful, heartfelt, lacerating things to say about Black identity and experience in America. Chappelle has also *always* been shitty about women, lgbtq people, and anything related to gender. It's like his wit and insight are permanently trapped at an Andrew Dice Clay level when he ventures outside of race and only race. He has resolutely taken the zero-sum stance that any advancement for any marginalized group other than -explicitly and exclusively- cishet Black people is, by its very nature, a wound inflicted on cishet Black people.
posted by cubeb at 10:06 AM on October 20, 2021 [102 favorites]
I am going to try to leave it at this: Chappelle has pretty much always had insightful, heartfelt, lacerating things to say about Black identity and experience in America. Chappelle has also *always* been shitty about women, lgbtq people, and anything related to gender. It's like his wit and insight are permanently trapped at an Andrew Dice Clay level when he ventures outside of race and only race. He has resolutely taken the zero-sum stance that any advancement for any marginalized group other than -explicitly and exclusively- cishet Black people is, by its very nature, a wound inflicted on cishet Black people.
posted by cubeb at 10:06 AM on October 20, 2021 [102 favorites]
I do not know if this community is prepared to have a discussion about it that does not engage in further marginalization.
Spoiler alert: it is not.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 10:09 AM on October 20, 2021 [10 favorites]
Spoiler alert: it is not.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 10:09 AM on October 20, 2021 [10 favorites]
> The false consciousness argument you just deployed for Black men and its attendant destruction of their agency goes a long way towards proving my point.
All the agency in the world doesn't give you a Netflix special with which to tear down others. Your lazy attempt to deflect by suggesting that people can only 100% control their destiny or only have 100% of it controlled by others is not worth engaging with. Chappelle's decision to triple-down on harming people and some other individual's choice to do so are not equal.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:11 AM on October 20, 2021 [15 favorites]
All the agency in the world doesn't give you a Netflix special with which to tear down others. Your lazy attempt to deflect by suggesting that people can only 100% control their destiny or only have 100% of it controlled by others is not worth engaging with. Chappelle's decision to triple-down on harming people and some other individual's choice to do so are not equal.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:11 AM on October 20, 2021 [15 favorites]
"He’s a uniquely gifted comedian who has achieved the rare transcendence to sage."
I would comment, but my eyes rolled up so hard, I'm touch-typing this and kp[omh gpt mp yu[ps f/
posted by the sobsister at 10:11 AM on October 20, 2021 [14 favorites]
I would comment, but my eyes rolled up so hard, I'm touch-typing this and kp[omh gpt mp yu[ps f/
posted by the sobsister at 10:11 AM on October 20, 2021 [14 favorites]
For a piece on critical thinking, it seemed strangely willing to combine two tendencies under "left" and "liberal" that are only tangentially related: First, the culture-wars parody of the left, which is that we are all constantly staring at the monitors on our cancellation units, finger poised over the red button, ready to halt the career of anyone who steps out of a narrow orthodoxy. Second, the extremely real and immediately visible refusal of American liberalism--personified by the Democrats--to benefit its constituents in any material way.
We can pretend to be surprised if any given demographic moves toward conservatism, but only if we see the Democratic Party as somehow that group's natural home, a home that deserves their votes without having to earn them. Instead, what we've seen over the decades is that constituency consistently harmed, consistently impoverished, consistently neglected. The culture-war rhetoric is exhausting, but part of the exhaustion comes because it is a last straw; there is simply nothing else on offer to fight over. Nobody's on your side. Nobody has your best interest at heart.
I think it's pertinent that so much of the energy around the great cancellation debate is about your job. It's like our discussion of whether comedians should be cancelled, or whether we're monsters for ever denying a millionaire his rightful place on our TV screens, is a sublimation of everyone's terror over being fired, over losing everything, from some blind implacable power that regards us as nothing. There's no real chance of Chappelle suffering harm over his jokes, but if you feel embattled, if you feel at the mercy of a system that doesn't care, you can begin to think you share something with him, some risk, some connection.
Would everything about our cultural conversation still be as shitty and hateful, if we had a little confidence in the future?
posted by mittens at 10:20 AM on October 20, 2021 [44 favorites]
We can pretend to be surprised if any given demographic moves toward conservatism, but only if we see the Democratic Party as somehow that group's natural home, a home that deserves their votes without having to earn them. Instead, what we've seen over the decades is that constituency consistently harmed, consistently impoverished, consistently neglected. The culture-war rhetoric is exhausting, but part of the exhaustion comes because it is a last straw; there is simply nothing else on offer to fight over. Nobody's on your side. Nobody has your best interest at heart.
I think it's pertinent that so much of the energy around the great cancellation debate is about your job. It's like our discussion of whether comedians should be cancelled, or whether we're monsters for ever denying a millionaire his rightful place on our TV screens, is a sublimation of everyone's terror over being fired, over losing everything, from some blind implacable power that regards us as nothing. There's no real chance of Chappelle suffering harm over his jokes, but if you feel embattled, if you feel at the mercy of a system that doesn't care, you can begin to think you share something with him, some risk, some connection.
Would everything about our cultural conversation still be as shitty and hateful, if we had a little confidence in the future?
posted by mittens at 10:20 AM on October 20, 2021 [44 favorites]
Second, the extremely real and immediately visible refusal of American liberalism--personified by the Democrats--to benefit its constituents in any material way.
I don't really follow this point? The Democrats were the ones who put forth help at all during the pandemic, is my immediate thought.
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:23 AM on October 20, 2021 [5 favorites]
I don't really follow this point? The Democrats were the ones who put forth help at all during the pandemic, is my immediate thought.
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:23 AM on October 20, 2021 [5 favorites]
(But politics here is kind of a derail. Sorry I engaged with that).
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:53 AM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:53 AM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
I don't know if the left's messaging is becoming too "rigid" but I do know that people -- especially people who are used to having their egos stroked by fans and the industrial entertainment complex -- get more rigid as they get older.
It's a story as old as comedy itself: the hungry young comic starts out boring his audience but puts in the work to hone his material to cater to its sensibilities, in the process revealing what seems to have been a deep vein of latent genius. But he gets old and inflexible and begins to fall behind the zeitgeist; he gets lazy demands that the audience meet him where he's at, rather than the other way around, like it used to be. Then, when the old comedian is no longer funny, he blames the audience for forgetting how to laugh.
Dave Chappelle was a good comedian and is a great story-teller. But he is old and people who used to stand by him are beginning to tire of his detachment, hostility and self-importance. Maybe one day he can do a grievance tour with John Cleese and Jeremy Clarkson just to keep the Lambos gassed up, or whatever.
posted by klanawa at 11:11 AM on October 20, 2021 [32 favorites]
It's a story as old as comedy itself: the hungry young comic starts out boring his audience but puts in the work to hone his material to cater to its sensibilities, in the process revealing what seems to have been a deep vein of latent genius. But he gets old and inflexible and begins to fall behind the zeitgeist; he gets lazy demands that the audience meet him where he's at, rather than the other way around, like it used to be. Then, when the old comedian is no longer funny, he blames the audience for forgetting how to laugh.
Dave Chappelle was a good comedian and is a great story-teller. But he is old and people who used to stand by him are beginning to tire of his detachment, hostility and self-importance. Maybe one day he can do a grievance tour with John Cleese and Jeremy Clarkson just to keep the Lambos gassed up, or whatever.
posted by klanawa at 11:11 AM on October 20, 2021 [32 favorites]
"He’s a uniquely gifted comedian who has achieved the rare transcendence to sage."
I would comment, but my eyes rolled up so hard
You're not wrong to feel that way, but I believe the author is referring to works like "8:46", Chappelle's very well received monologue about George Floyd from last year.
posted by riruro at 11:33 AM on October 20, 2021 [5 favorites]
I would comment, but my eyes rolled up so hard
You're not wrong to feel that way, but I believe the author is referring to works like "8:46", Chappelle's very well received monologue about George Floyd from last year.
posted by riruro at 11:33 AM on October 20, 2021 [5 favorites]
He's said that he's okay with losing the money and not playing.
True, and if he's fine with that, cool, I guess. I do wonder how long his employer is going to be cool with that, though. I'm pretty sure my employer would can my butt if my refusal to get vaccinated meant that I literally could not do my job, no matter how special I was at the game (that I can't play, because I won't get vaxxed).
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:39 AM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
True, and if he's fine with that, cool, I guess. I do wonder how long his employer is going to be cool with that, though. I'm pretty sure my employer would can my butt if my refusal to get vaccinated meant that I literally could not do my job, no matter how special I was at the game (that I can't play, because I won't get vaxxed).
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:39 AM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
And having said what I said, I still think the routine linked by riruro was good and valuable, problematic though it is.
posted by klanawa at 11:47 AM on October 20, 2021
posted by klanawa at 11:47 AM on October 20, 2021
I wonder how many people involved in this discussion (and not just here on Mefi) have actually seen the special in its entirety.
posted by philip-random at 11:47 AM on October 20, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 11:47 AM on October 20, 2021 [5 favorites]
philip-random, why would I want to watch a transphobic comedy routine once I know it's transphobic? Do I somehow owe it to Dave Chappelle? Netflix? I mean, it's possible that the many, many criticisms I have read of it are inaccurate, but I'm personally fine taking the writers at their word.
posted by sagc at 11:51 AM on October 20, 2021 [47 favorites]
posted by sagc at 11:51 AM on October 20, 2021 [47 favorites]
If you're implying any of his bigotry is "better in context," the answer is no. A lot of the stuff, of which the Daphne Dorman bit is an example, actually feels crueler as a part of the whole show than what people may have seen quoted.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:55 AM on October 20, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:55 AM on October 20, 2021 [6 favorites]
If I understood correctly he has finished his current Netflix contractual obligations? At least that is how he seemed to describe it at the start of the show.
posted by Meatbomb at 12:27 PM on October 20, 2021
posted by Meatbomb at 12:27 PM on October 20, 2021
i wouldn't think Chappelle is a "free-thinker" so much as a comedian. the latest stuff, i think, beyond being explicitly from a "rich" Black comedian, is from a rich, rural, Black comedian.
It is creepy how well he predicted the news stories about his special, in the special.
What is weirder, to me, is the discussion among rural (white) dudes in my facebook feed now re-thinking their stances in support of bathroom bills and the like.
Now that Chappelle is on "their side" of the culture war, "their side" now includes political stances against anti-trans legislation?
posted by eustatic at 12:27 PM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
It is creepy how well he predicted the news stories about his special, in the special.
What is weirder, to me, is the discussion among rural (white) dudes in my facebook feed now re-thinking their stances in support of bathroom bills and the like.
Now that Chappelle is on "their side" of the culture war, "their side" now includes political stances against anti-trans legislation?
posted by eustatic at 12:27 PM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
He's said that he's okay with losing the money and not playing.
Millionaires have that luxury.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:38 PM on October 20, 2021 [9 favorites]
Millionaires have that luxury.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:38 PM on October 20, 2021 [9 favorites]
It makes me wonder if anyone watched his show, before deciding to comment.
If you have not, you are really doing yourself a disservice by agreeing that he was bigoted in his act. It's at the very least worth it to see what he says before you have someone decide for you, how you should feel and act.
posted by microm3gas at 12:38 PM on October 20, 2021 [7 favorites]
If you have not, you are really doing yourself a disservice by agreeing that he was bigoted in his act. It's at the very least worth it to see what he says before you have someone decide for you, how you should feel and act.
posted by microm3gas at 12:38 PM on October 20, 2021 [7 favorites]
microm3gas, that seems like a hard line to draw - not having an opinion on anything until you've consumed it? Is no report of the content of something good enough?
Like, if someone tells me something is hateful, is there any scenario or content where I'm allowed to trust them? Or must I subject myself to everything I might want to dismiss, just so that I know in my heart that it's really hateful?
You can read philip-random as making the limited version of this argument, where it's pundits and critics who we should criticize for talking before consuming it. Saying that criticism is worthless, though, since it's someone else telling you how to "feel and act"? That's basically the reductio ad absurdum version of the argument, but in sincerity.
posted by sagc at 12:46 PM on October 20, 2021 [16 favorites]
Like, if someone tells me something is hateful, is there any scenario or content where I'm allowed to trust them? Or must I subject myself to everything I might want to dismiss, just so that I know in my heart that it's really hateful?
You can read philip-random as making the limited version of this argument, where it's pundits and critics who we should criticize for talking before consuming it. Saying that criticism is worthless, though, since it's someone else telling you how to "feel and act"? That's basically the reductio ad absurdum version of the argument, but in sincerity.
posted by sagc at 12:46 PM on October 20, 2021 [16 favorites]
It makes me wonder if anyone watched his show, before deciding to comment.
I watched it the day after it dropped. (And - I like his earlier work, I would consider myself a 'fan' ... historically, until the last couple of years)
It was... 'not good' - left me feeling 'wrong' - he continues to punch-down and pretend he doesn't know what that means.
I won't recomend it - and I won't bother with anymore of his stuff in future... (I was hopeful that maybe he had some sort of epiphany or change of heart, but no ... more of the same)
posted by rozcakj at 12:50 PM on October 20, 2021 [16 favorites]
I watched it the day after it dropped. (And - I like his earlier work, I would consider myself a 'fan' ... historically, until the last couple of years)
It was... 'not good' - left me feeling 'wrong' - he continues to punch-down and pretend he doesn't know what that means.
I won't recomend it - and I won't bother with anymore of his stuff in future... (I was hopeful that maybe he had some sort of epiphany or change of heart, but no ... more of the same)
posted by rozcakj at 12:50 PM on October 20, 2021 [16 favorites]
not having an opinion on anything until you've consumed it? Is no report of the content of something good enough?
Like, if someone tells me something is hateful, is there any scenario or content where I'm allowed to trust them?
Well, sort of, yes. You can’t really have an opinion on something you haven’t interacted with — you can say “that’s not for me, thanks,” but you can’t say “performer does a terrible job with X,” because you don’t know; you haven’t done the work. Similarly, if you read a tweet from Person X saying “Y is bad because Z,” it’s fair to say “I trust X, so I won’t interact with Y,” and you could even tweet out “X says Y is bad,” but just tweeting “Y is bad” is how we get social media storms that turn out to be wildly overblown of full of hot takes based on faulty information.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:58 PM on October 20, 2021 [14 favorites]
Like, if someone tells me something is hateful, is there any scenario or content where I'm allowed to trust them?
Well, sort of, yes. You can’t really have an opinion on something you haven’t interacted with — you can say “that’s not for me, thanks,” but you can’t say “performer does a terrible job with X,” because you don’t know; you haven’t done the work. Similarly, if you read a tweet from Person X saying “Y is bad because Z,” it’s fair to say “I trust X, so I won’t interact with Y,” and you could even tweet out “X says Y is bad,” but just tweeting “Y is bad” is how we get social media storms that turn out to be wildly overblown of full of hot takes based on faulty information.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:58 PM on October 20, 2021 [14 favorites]
I mean, it's not like he hasn't dipped into a well of transphobia before. What's the argument there, "despite having made transphobic jokes pretty much his whole career, *this time* everybody's got it wrong"?
I've seen quotes & the transcript (and the quotes don't seem to lie), are you saying that there's something special not captured in his words that turns it around?
posted by CrystalDave at 1:00 PM on October 20, 2021 [17 favorites]
I've seen quotes & the transcript (and the quotes don't seem to lie), are you saying that there's something special not captured in his words that turns it around?
posted by CrystalDave at 1:00 PM on October 20, 2021 [17 favorites]
What. If I read a review that says "Leo is bad in this", and I say "I'm not watching that, because I heard Leo is bad in it", is that a problem?
Who are these people repeating that The Closer is bad with literally zero awareness of why it's being criticized?
Or is it a matter of citation? Because I just don't see it as being that much of a problem, as far as saying "Dave Chappelle is transphobic" vs. "Someone I trust has said that Dave Chappelle is transphobic, and I agree with their assessment."
posted by sagc at 1:00 PM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
Who are these people repeating that The Closer is bad with literally zero awareness of why it's being criticized?
Or is it a matter of citation? Because I just don't see it as being that much of a problem, as far as saying "Dave Chappelle is transphobic" vs. "Someone I trust has said that Dave Chappelle is transphobic, and I agree with their assessment."
posted by sagc at 1:00 PM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
If we haven't watched this special in which he is allegedly transphobic/gross on LGBTQI stuff, but we have watched the previous special, in which he was also transphobic/gross on LGBTQI stuff, what level of commenting are we allowed to do?
After that last special came out I happened to overhear a group of Comedy Dudebros at the bar--all white, middle aged-ish or at any rate, in their 30s. They were talking about it and somehow, ALL OF THEM loudly agreed that they thought the trans bits were cheap, shitty, and very much below Chappelle. It was like the only good thing that happened to me that whole year.
(Setting aside that I also found the Defector piece to be wildly difficult to follow--would not be surprised if it was actually just like a transcript of a text conversation or a string of tweets, which, maybe I'm just too old to consider that an "Essay".)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:02 PM on October 20, 2021 [24 favorites]
After that last special came out I happened to overhear a group of Comedy Dudebros at the bar--all white, middle aged-ish or at any rate, in their 30s. They were talking about it and somehow, ALL OF THEM loudly agreed that they thought the trans bits were cheap, shitty, and very much below Chappelle. It was like the only good thing that happened to me that whole year.
(Setting aside that I also found the Defector piece to be wildly difficult to follow--would not be surprised if it was actually just like a transcript of a text conversation or a string of tweets, which, maybe I'm just too old to consider that an "Essay".)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:02 PM on October 20, 2021 [24 favorites]
I think Dave knew he didn’t have a good set for this final special so he went for some cheap shots and controversy so we wouldn’t be taking by about how his latest outing was such garbage. Clever move really. He’d rather be canceled for being politically incorrect than have people asking if he’s lost his edge.
posted by interogative mood at 1:12 PM on October 20, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 1:12 PM on October 20, 2021 [10 favorites]
If you have not, you are really doing yourself a disservice by agreeing that he was bigoted in his act. It's at the very least worth it to see what he says before you have someone decide for you, how you should feel and act.
I think there's something pernicious about this point of view, because it sounds so reasonable--how can we really know what we disagree with, unless we engage with it? The problem is, this disagreeable material is dredged up for our consideration over and over and over, and at no point does that sentiment allow us to say, "Okay, I've heard enough, I can make a decision about how harmful this is," because tomorrow there will always be yet another iteration of it that we're not allowed to judge without engaging in it yet again. At some point, we do have to say we've heard enough. At some point, we have to be allowed to listen to our friends and trusted contacts and not expose ourselves to every horror just so we can have an opinion. If you tell me this bottle contains poison, how much am I required to drink, before I say, "Maybe drinking poison is not for me?"
Of course the act was bigoted. The Daphne Dorman story was fucking horrifying. It was one of the ugliest expressions of absolute egotism I've ever seen. Can you imagine, finding yourself in such dire straits you kill yourself, only to find a famous comedian wedging himself into your life story to make himself the true hero? I suppose I see what people are saying about him being a genuine storyteller though--he works the crowd perfectly. There's that one moment where everyone gasps at her death--that one moment they actually connect with her humanity--and then he gleefully leads them away from it, putting the spotlight back on himself, making sure you know it's all okay, because he's taking care of things...
So I would tell someone, you don't need to watch that. You don't need to put yourself through it. It's not like problematic-fave comedy, where you'll be laughing your ass off guiltily. It's just astonishingly ugly, and I'm not sure why anyone would feel a moral obligation to watch it before deciding it's not for them.
posted by mittens at 1:23 PM on October 20, 2021 [62 favorites]
I think there's something pernicious about this point of view, because it sounds so reasonable--how can we really know what we disagree with, unless we engage with it? The problem is, this disagreeable material is dredged up for our consideration over and over and over, and at no point does that sentiment allow us to say, "Okay, I've heard enough, I can make a decision about how harmful this is," because tomorrow there will always be yet another iteration of it that we're not allowed to judge without engaging in it yet again. At some point, we do have to say we've heard enough. At some point, we have to be allowed to listen to our friends and trusted contacts and not expose ourselves to every horror just so we can have an opinion. If you tell me this bottle contains poison, how much am I required to drink, before I say, "Maybe drinking poison is not for me?"
Of course the act was bigoted. The Daphne Dorman story was fucking horrifying. It was one of the ugliest expressions of absolute egotism I've ever seen. Can you imagine, finding yourself in such dire straits you kill yourself, only to find a famous comedian wedging himself into your life story to make himself the true hero? I suppose I see what people are saying about him being a genuine storyteller though--he works the crowd perfectly. There's that one moment where everyone gasps at her death--that one moment they actually connect with her humanity--and then he gleefully leads them away from it, putting the spotlight back on himself, making sure you know it's all okay, because he's taking care of things...
So I would tell someone, you don't need to watch that. You don't need to put yourself through it. It's not like problematic-fave comedy, where you'll be laughing your ass off guiltily. It's just astonishingly ugly, and I'm not sure why anyone would feel a moral obligation to watch it before deciding it's not for them.
posted by mittens at 1:23 PM on October 20, 2021 [62 favorites]
I have trans friends who were hurt and angry by his "comedy" in this special. I haven't seen it, but I'm going to take their word over some internet dude pulling the JAQing routine.
posted by Kitteh at 1:24 PM on October 20, 2021 [37 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 1:24 PM on October 20, 2021 [37 favorites]
It was a small crowd, but apparently some people at Netflix HQ staged a walkout in protest today.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:24 PM on October 20, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:24 PM on October 20, 2021 [11 favorites]
I thought the article pretty straightforwardly made the case that hot takes, grievance olympics and silo-ization are bad for building societies, and the left is just as guilty of getting into these superficial argument wars instead of doing real work. Not sure if I entirely agree, but the article was fine.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:27 PM on October 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by oneirodynia at 1:27 PM on October 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
You can’t really have an opinion on something you haven’t interacted with — you can say “that’s not for me, thanks,” but you can’t say “performer does a terrible job with X,” because you don’t know; you haven’t done the work.
.....I'm assuming that those who hold this position don't also believe that "we shouldn't take the FCC's word on the dangers of COVID, we should do our own research!"
If you are someone who believes that "you can't have an opinion about the Dave Chappelle special unless you've seen it", can you expound upon why you believe accepting the opinion of others is wise in one scenario but not another?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:27 PM on October 20, 2021 [9 favorites]
.....I'm assuming that those who hold this position don't also believe that "we shouldn't take the FCC's word on the dangers of COVID, we should do our own research!"
If you are someone who believes that "you can't have an opinion about the Dave Chappelle special unless you've seen it", can you expound upon why you believe accepting the opinion of others is wise in one scenario but not another?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:27 PM on October 20, 2021 [9 favorites]
.....I'm assuming that those who hold this position don't also believe that "we shouldn't take the FCC's word on the dangers of COVID, we should do our own research!"
As long as COVID doesn't cuss on the radio, tbh, I'm not sure the FCC will have anything to say about it at all.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:31 PM on October 20, 2021 [6 favorites]
As long as COVID doesn't cuss on the radio, tbh, I'm not sure the FCC will have anything to say about it at all.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:31 PM on October 20, 2021 [6 favorites]
please substitute CDC for FCC in my previous comment, I am sleep deprived
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:34 PM on October 20, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:34 PM on October 20, 2021 [7 favorites]
Like many other people reacting to this I'm trans and I'm a little sick of being told that I need to engage directly with transphobic content, which is extremely harmful to me, before I'm allowed to have an opinion on whether transphobia is bad.
posted by an octopus IRL at 1:35 PM on October 20, 2021 [74 favorites]
posted by an octopus IRL at 1:35 PM on October 20, 2021 [74 favorites]
If you want another thinkpiece about Chappelle and The Closer, here's one from The Atlantic.
I kinda gave up on Chappelle after feeling like Equanimity had a few too many shitty moments, and, while I was at one time a big fan of his work, I'm also not the least bit surprised that he'd double down on the shitty parts.
Despite not having watched The Closer, I've read enough reviews and listened to enough people whose opinions I trust that I feel completely qualified to identify it as transphobic content.
posted by box at 1:39 PM on October 20, 2021 [6 favorites]
I kinda gave up on Chappelle after feeling like Equanimity had a few too many shitty moments, and, while I was at one time a big fan of his work, I'm also not the least bit surprised that he'd double down on the shitty parts.
Despite not having watched The Closer, I've read enough reviews and listened to enough people whose opinions I trust that I feel completely qualified to identify it as transphobic content.
posted by box at 1:39 PM on October 20, 2021 [6 favorites]
You can’t really have an opinion on
I’m gonna stop you right there. You can. People do all the time. Treating this false and meaningless constraint (“you can’t,” “we’re not allowed to”) as a real condition is partly what fuels culture wars.
posted by sock poppet at 1:57 PM on October 20, 2021 [21 favorites]
I’m gonna stop you right there. You can. People do all the time. Treating this false and meaningless constraint (“you can’t,” “we’re not allowed to”) as a real condition is partly what fuels culture wars.
posted by sock poppet at 1:57 PM on October 20, 2021 [21 favorites]
I'll allow it
posted by elkevelvet at 2:11 PM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 2:11 PM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
Is there a single successful comedian who isn't an asshole? It seems like there is not one who can do the job and not turn out to be shitty, either on-stage or off-, or both. I used to point to Bill Cosby as a curmudgeon but who was harmless in his old age, then John Mulaney had the same feel, but now I can't name anybody.
It's turned me off of stand-up. Even if you can name some up-and-coming comics who appear to be squeaky clean, my attitude lately is "well, give them time, they'll do something to massively disappoint."
posted by nushustu at 2:45 PM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
It's turned me off of stand-up. Even if you can name some up-and-coming comics who appear to be squeaky clean, my attitude lately is "well, give them time, they'll do something to massively disappoint."
posted by nushustu at 2:45 PM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
Tig Notaro? Chelsea Peretti? Depends so much on what you mean by successful, but I don't think it's too hard to find someone who is both popular and not, like, evil.
posted by sagc at 2:46 PM on October 20, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by sagc at 2:46 PM on October 20, 2021 [18 favorites]
Dulce Sloan. Shalewa Sharpe. hmmmm...I'm starting to see what the non-asshole standups have in common.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:08 PM on October 20, 2021 [16 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 3:08 PM on October 20, 2021 [16 favorites]
i recall that when the topic of ricky gervais's humanity special, also on netflix, came up previously, there were quite a few defenses of it along the lines of "have you seen it?"
which, i sat through the first fifteen minutes of that and gave a point by point explanation of how it was transphobic. i ain't doing that shit for chappelle's most recent special.
there's a transcript instead.
and you know what? early on, that shit joking about elderly asian being beat up over covid? where's the fucking joke? what am i supposed to laugh at? and then the bit about dababy? it's not great. the shit about #metoo? and when he starts talking about trans people, which, from the transcripts, looks to be at least half of it, it's really bad. especially when he gets to the "my one trans friend" part, who he implies trans people drove to suicide, who he trashes her entire set, and then misgenders her after her death as a fucking punchline in the same way so many other dead trans people are deadnamed and misgendered in their deaths? who he'd known maybe a week? after defending jk rowling and saying he's on "team terf" and spouting their arguments, after being awfully vulgar about genitalia, which is something every tom, dick, and harry feels compelled to discuss about trans women specifically for no other reason than prurience and grotesque curiosity?
that's the show you want me to watch before having an opinion? fuck you.
"gay people are minorities until they need to be white again" my fucking non-white ass.
i don't need to read the turner diaries, mein kampf, the transsexual empire, irreversible damage, coming out straight or watch bugs bunny nips the nips to know that the content inside is fucking heinous and hateful. to demand that i subject myself to the entirety of it is bullshit.
it's hypocritical too, given that half the people demanding that seem to have not seen mignonnes and are wondering why there isn't any similar critique of it, ignoring the fact that at the time, there fucking was.
posted by i used to be someone else at 3:16 PM on October 20, 2021 [57 favorites]
which, i sat through the first fifteen minutes of that and gave a point by point explanation of how it was transphobic. i ain't doing that shit for chappelle's most recent special.
there's a transcript instead.
and you know what? early on, that shit joking about elderly asian being beat up over covid? where's the fucking joke? what am i supposed to laugh at? and then the bit about dababy? it's not great. the shit about #metoo? and when he starts talking about trans people, which, from the transcripts, looks to be at least half of it, it's really bad. especially when he gets to the "my one trans friend" part, who he implies trans people drove to suicide, who he trashes her entire set, and then misgenders her after her death as a fucking punchline in the same way so many other dead trans people are deadnamed and misgendered in their deaths? who he'd known maybe a week? after defending jk rowling and saying he's on "team terf" and spouting their arguments, after being awfully vulgar about genitalia, which is something every tom, dick, and harry feels compelled to discuss about trans women specifically for no other reason than prurience and grotesque curiosity?
that's the show you want me to watch before having an opinion? fuck you.
"gay people are minorities until they need to be white again" my fucking non-white ass.
i don't need to read the turner diaries, mein kampf, the transsexual empire, irreversible damage, coming out straight or watch bugs bunny nips the nips to know that the content inside is fucking heinous and hateful. to demand that i subject myself to the entirety of it is bullshit.
it's hypocritical too, given that half the people demanding that seem to have not seen mignonnes and are wondering why there isn't any similar critique of it, ignoring the fact that at the time, there fucking was.
posted by i used to be someone else at 3:16 PM on October 20, 2021 [57 favorites]
I think Dave knew he didn’t have a good set for this final special so he went for some cheap shots and controversy so we wouldn’t be taking by about how his latest outing was such garbage. Clever move really. He’d rather be canceled for being politically incorrect than have people asking if he’s lost his edge.
has chappelle been "cancelled"? because from what it looks like, the only person that's really been cancelled is netflix's only black trans employee.
posted by i used to be someone else at 3:22 PM on October 20, 2021 [32 favorites]
has chappelle been "cancelled"? because from what it looks like, the only person that's really been cancelled is netflix's only black trans employee.
posted by i used to be someone else at 3:22 PM on October 20, 2021 [32 favorites]
how many dudes savaged hannah gadsby's special without having seen it? it's way more fingers and toes than i and everyone in my neighborhood have, including ones not attached to any living bodies.
posted by i used to be someone else at 3:24 PM on October 20, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by i used to be someone else at 3:24 PM on October 20, 2021 [12 favorites]
Chappelle reminds me very much of a lot of hip-hop artists from the late 80s - late 90s who had important, incisive and beautifully expressed things to say about the oppression of black people in America, theft of natural resources from Africa, and the erasure of black history from global history...
...while also having absolute toxic trash takes on every other minority group and women. Seriously, the things rappers who were helping me to realize I should be proud to be black and hold my head up high were also saying things about other groups that varied from nearly comically ignorant to stuff that would not have been out of place in a discussion on Stormfront or a red pill/PUA sub-reddit.
It was like they framed life as an Oppression Olympics and while other minority groups were allowed to play, in their opinion only cishet black people who followed an Abrahamic religion were allowed on the podium.
After Chappelle's first special that featured punching down jokes, a good friend of mine (a cishet white dude) made a post to Facebook saying something similar to a few comments we've seen here: It wasn't as bad as critics were making it out to be, and we needed to watch it to see the full context of the jokes before deciding that he was being transphobic and "canceling" him.
I gave it a try and lasted until he got to the part where he decides to abuse the trans community by saying that their lives have about as much validity and authenticity as him suddenly deciding he was Chinese, and the "punchline" was him launching into a horrific caricature of Asian physiology and speech patterns.
Lost some respect for my friend that day.
So I'm going to trust the trans community and allies when they talk about the damage Chappelle is doing, and I'm not shedding a tear for a "canceled" dude who has more money and power and safety than most of us will ever have, minority though he is.
posted by lord_wolf at 3:25 PM on October 20, 2021 [39 favorites]
...while also having absolute toxic trash takes on every other minority group and women. Seriously, the things rappers who were helping me to realize I should be proud to be black and hold my head up high were also saying things about other groups that varied from nearly comically ignorant to stuff that would not have been out of place in a discussion on Stormfront or a red pill/PUA sub-reddit.
It was like they framed life as an Oppression Olympics and while other minority groups were allowed to play, in their opinion only cishet black people who followed an Abrahamic religion were allowed on the podium.
After Chappelle's first special that featured punching down jokes, a good friend of mine (a cishet white dude) made a post to Facebook saying something similar to a few comments we've seen here: It wasn't as bad as critics were making it out to be, and we needed to watch it to see the full context of the jokes before deciding that he was being transphobic and "canceling" him.
I gave it a try and lasted until he got to the part where he decides to abuse the trans community by saying that their lives have about as much validity and authenticity as him suddenly deciding he was Chinese, and the "punchline" was him launching into a horrific caricature of Asian physiology and speech patterns.
Lost some respect for my friend that day.
So I'm going to trust the trans community and allies when they talk about the damage Chappelle is doing, and I'm not shedding a tear for a "canceled" dude who has more money and power and safety than most of us will ever have, minority though he is.
posted by lord_wolf at 3:25 PM on October 20, 2021 [39 favorites]
Here is a really good post ("It was never about Dave") written by a trans employee at Netflix explaining some of the behind-the-scenes stuff. It does a nice job of explaining the issues I have (as a trans person) with the special and the resulting media frenzy around it.
The key point: it's not that we're offended. It's that giving this kind of unbridled transphobia this kind of platform does a lot of damage to a lot of vulnerable and marginalised people. And most of the folks in power lack the empathy and self-reflection to even begin to understand that, much less do anything to change it. They are a big part of the problem but they either don't think there is a problem or think they are part of the solution.
posted by contrapositive at 3:27 PM on October 20, 2021 [29 favorites]
The key point: it's not that we're offended. It's that giving this kind of unbridled transphobia this kind of platform does a lot of damage to a lot of vulnerable and marginalised people. And most of the folks in power lack the empathy and self-reflection to even begin to understand that, much less do anything to change it. They are a big part of the problem but they either don't think there is a problem or think they are part of the solution.
posted by contrapositive at 3:27 PM on October 20, 2021 [29 favorites]
in their opinion only cishet black people
Cishet black men, really. I don't want to think about how many "conscious" rappers from back in the day I now cringe to see mentioned in headlines for fear of hearing what they came out with.
In the end, a lot of marginalized people's quarrel with the patriarchy turns out to be mostly that they aren't allowed to be patriarchs. It's just very depressing to see from intelligent people who thought their way clear of a lot of other toxic bullshit.
posted by praemunire at 3:52 PM on October 20, 2021 [18 favorites]
Cishet black men, really. I don't want to think about how many "conscious" rappers from back in the day I now cringe to see mentioned in headlines for fear of hearing what they came out with.
In the end, a lot of marginalized people's quarrel with the patriarchy turns out to be mostly that they aren't allowed to be patriarchs. It's just very depressing to see from intelligent people who thought their way clear of a lot of other toxic bullshit.
posted by praemunire at 3:52 PM on October 20, 2021 [18 favorites]
I'm pretty sure there's enough recapping of the transphobic content online so that I can get the gist of the crappy stuff Chappelle said without having to watch it myself.
I also note that the entire reason Netflix is choosing this guy over employees, trans people, etc. is because he's a big seller, and if I watch it, that adds to the argument that Chappelle is so big that his moneymaking abilities dwarf the crappy things he is saying.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:09 PM on October 20, 2021 [25 favorites]
I also note that the entire reason Netflix is choosing this guy over employees, trans people, etc. is because he's a big seller, and if I watch it, that adds to the argument that Chappelle is so big that his moneymaking abilities dwarf the crappy things he is saying.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:09 PM on October 20, 2021 [25 favorites]
It's actually worse than that, allegedly the whole reason Netflix fired a pregnant Black woman was because she revealed that Netflix is losing money on the Chappelle specials, which means that Netflix is more or less subsidizing bigotry for no good reason.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 4:23 PM on October 20, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 4:23 PM on October 20, 2021 [17 favorites]
The biggest laugh in the whole special was hearing an A-list celeb with Scrooge McDuck money tell trans people to stop "punching down."
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:32 PM on October 20, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:32 PM on October 20, 2021 [9 favorites]
Some bit of promotional material I read for the show had Chappelle talking about how he tells the truth, and sometimes the truth hurts, but it's funny, and I thought, "Oh wow, a comedian telling me beforehand why I should laugh at his jokes, this has GOT to be some GREAT comedy!"
posted by Saxon Kane at 4:42 PM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Saxon Kane at 4:42 PM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
You can’t really have an opinion on something you haven’t interacted with
Snort. Yeah, maybe I’ll worry about that after folks like Chappelle (or better yet, Tucker Carlson, or innumerable other insufferable, over-privileged cis white dudes) decide that they can’t really have opinions about, say, the validity of trans-ness despite a self-reported lack of personal experience in being trans. You sort them out, then maybe we can talk about something as relatively unimportant as random internet people’s slagging a wealthy comedian’s Netflix special.
posted by eviemath at 4:44 PM on October 20, 2021 [27 favorites]
Snort. Yeah, maybe I’ll worry about that after folks like Chappelle (or better yet, Tucker Carlson, or innumerable other insufferable, over-privileged cis white dudes) decide that they can’t really have opinions about, say, the validity of trans-ness despite a self-reported lack of personal experience in being trans. You sort them out, then maybe we can talk about something as relatively unimportant as random internet people’s slagging a wealthy comedian’s Netflix special.
posted by eviemath at 4:44 PM on October 20, 2021 [27 favorites]
I've heard the new Bo Burnham special on Netflix, Inside, is delightful. I've watched about 5 minutes so far and enjoyed it.
posted by srboisvert at 4:44 PM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 4:44 PM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
I've heard the new Bo Burnham special on Netflix, Inside, is delightful. I've watched about 5 minutes so far and enjoyed it.
Oh good. After you watched that, you can watch the video linked in this post (which addresses parts of the Burnham special as springboards to its points), which was one of the most remarkable video essay journeys I have ever been on.
posted by hippybear at 7:25 PM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
Oh good. After you watched that, you can watch the video linked in this post (which addresses parts of the Burnham special as springboards to its points), which was one of the most remarkable video essay journeys I have ever been on.
posted by hippybear at 7:25 PM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
At what point does Ted Sarandos just say "fuck it" and merge Netflix with Chick-Fil-A? They could call it Chick-A-Flix, and half of the country will hate it with the heat of 100 suns while the other half rave about how much they love the new Sandlerburger.
posted by anhedonic at 8:18 PM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by anhedonic at 8:18 PM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
NBC Nightly News did a short segment tonight on the Netflix employees in Hollywood walking out.
posted by neuron at 8:29 PM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by neuron at 8:29 PM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
Elliot Page joined the walk-out today, from what I read.
posted by hippybear at 8:30 PM on October 20, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:30 PM on October 20, 2021 [7 favorites]
I read the article before coming here, and while I really, really do like Defector, there have been a couple times, this article being one of them, where I think, shit, really? (The other being Ratto's remarkably tone deaf bullshit about Naomi Osaka and press conferences, which other writers on the site seemed to echo)
I'd have liked to see an editor force England to take a minute to define "liberal orthodoxy" in the way that he spells out "free-thinker-ism." His explanation of free thinking as entitled libertarian bullshit, it feels rooted and fleshed out. The liberal orthodoxy asides? Fuck that. Explain what you mean, or accept that you're just making general hand waving motions and talking about "the left" without having put any more thought into it than your standard talk radio listener does. It's the calling card of people who think the concept of someone fighting for social justice is a great insult, or that calls for civility and treating people with dignity and respect is PC censorship.
Defector hasn't really been around long enough for me to make claims of what kind of place it is, and whether something like this has no place there, but damn, I expected better of the site. I'm not really interested in paying to support both sides bullshit, no matter how convoluted the essay structure is.
posted by Ghidorah at 9:01 PM on October 20, 2021 [10 favorites]
I'd have liked to see an editor force England to take a minute to define "liberal orthodoxy" in the way that he spells out "free-thinker-ism." His explanation of free thinking as entitled libertarian bullshit, it feels rooted and fleshed out. The liberal orthodoxy asides? Fuck that. Explain what you mean, or accept that you're just making general hand waving motions and talking about "the left" without having put any more thought into it than your standard talk radio listener does. It's the calling card of people who think the concept of someone fighting for social justice is a great insult, or that calls for civility and treating people with dignity and respect is PC censorship.
Defector hasn't really been around long enough for me to make claims of what kind of place it is, and whether something like this has no place there, but damn, I expected better of the site. I'm not really interested in paying to support both sides bullshit, no matter how convoluted the essay structure is.
posted by Ghidorah at 9:01 PM on October 20, 2021 [10 favorites]
FWIW I've worked in high schools for 25 years now and wish to confirm that not only do many young people feel like it's ok to make shitty jokes right in the faces of LGBTQ people, they actually do this everyday, often with impunity. In the last couple of years, I've heard a lot of them citing Chapelle or saying they shouldn't be canceled for their "jokes" when I call them on this. Sorry, I recognize Chapelle is trying to make some oblique point about, but all I hear in his choice of words is a teenage boy pissed off because he's been asked to stop being a bully.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:22 PM on October 20, 2021 [35 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:22 PM on October 20, 2021 [35 favorites]
I cancelled my Netflix subscription a few days ago because of this. There are things I would have liked to watch, but I couldn't have enjoyed them with a clean conscience.
And no, I'm not going to quietly crawl back and resubscribe when (the next season of Katla/the Sandman series/a hypothetical live-action BoJack Horseman remake) drops. For one, we live in an age of surveillance capitalism, and I'm sure that “people who say they're taking a moral stance but quietly renege on it” is a valuable demographic data point to be harvested by the adtech companies, so if I did so, I'd probably start seeing a lot of ads aimed at scumbags.
posted by acb at 2:53 AM on October 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
And no, I'm not going to quietly crawl back and resubscribe when (the next season of Katla/the Sandman series/a hypothetical live-action BoJack Horseman remake) drops. For one, we live in an age of surveillance capitalism, and I'm sure that “people who say they're taking a moral stance but quietly renege on it” is a valuable demographic data point to be harvested by the adtech companies, so if I did so, I'd probably start seeing a lot of ads aimed at scumbags.
posted by acb at 2:53 AM on October 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
At what point does Ted Sarandos just say "fuck it" and merge Netflix with Chick-Fil-A?
I'm half-wondering whether the doubling down on TERFiness is in the service of trying to land a JK Rowling project. Perhaps some lazily orientalist wizard-schools-in-other-countries thing or something.
posted by acb at 3:21 AM on October 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm half-wondering whether the doubling down on TERFiness is in the service of trying to land a JK Rowling project. Perhaps some lazily orientalist wizard-schools-in-other-countries thing or something.
posted by acb at 3:21 AM on October 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
I cancelled my Netflix subscription a few days ago because of this. There are things I would have liked to watch, but I couldn't have enjoyed them with a clean conscience.
I'm just going to find--cough--other ways to view that content if I want to watch.
We cancelled our Netflix subscription at the beginning of the summer: I was watching too little TV, and my husband was watching too much (it was getting in the way of his studies). And when this whole shitstorm went down, I'm like, yeah, not going to re-subscribe, thanks. But again, I have the privilege to make that choice. Not calling for everyone else to unless they want to.
posted by Kitteh at 5:44 AM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
I'm just going to find--cough--other ways to view that content if I want to watch.
We cancelled our Netflix subscription at the beginning of the summer: I was watching too little TV, and my husband was watching too much (it was getting in the way of his studies). And when this whole shitstorm went down, I'm like, yeah, not going to re-subscribe, thanks. But again, I have the privilege to make that choice. Not calling for everyone else to unless they want to.
posted by Kitteh at 5:44 AM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
Who doesn't have the privilege of being free to walk away from Netflix?
posted by acb at 6:08 AM on October 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by acb at 6:08 AM on October 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
Honestly the only reason I have Netflix is because I'm one of those weirdos who still uses their DVD service and almost never streams anything with them anyway.
Although I literally just now learned that they have a "DVD-only" plan and I may switch....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:00 AM on October 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
Although I literally just now learned that they have a "DVD-only" plan and I may switch....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:00 AM on October 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
Netflix fired a pregnant Black woman
gentle correction, Mx. Pagels-Minor is non-binary and doesn't seem to view themselves as a woman.
posted by i used to be someone else at 7:29 AM on October 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
gentle correction, Mx. Pagels-Minor is non-binary and doesn't seem to view themselves as a woman.
posted by i used to be someone else at 7:29 AM on October 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
Is there a single successful comedian who isn't an asshole?
Is Stewart Lee still okay? Oh wait you said 'successful'.
posted by fleacircus at 8:30 AM on October 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
Is Stewart Lee still okay? Oh wait you said 'successful'.
posted by fleacircus at 8:30 AM on October 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm sick of being told that I have to consume offensive, horrible content in order to be absolutely sure that it's exactly as offensive and horrible as I've been lead to believe, especially when consuming that content benefits the person who created it - my friends who protested Miss Saigon were told they couldn't have an opinion unless they went to the show, which would have cost them money and forced them to directly support the show financially "in order to have an opinion" and I think that's nonsensical. And again, I'm being told that I can't have an opinion on (even more of) Chapelle's shitty anti-LGBT views unless I make myself deeply uncomfortable and upset watching it, no matter how much of his bigotry I've been exposed to previously, no matter how many other people who have watched it have told all of us that it's not a good use of our time.
Chapelle, on the other hand, isn't expected to meet every LGBT person - even every trans person in Ohio, even every Black trans person in Ohio - before he makes horrific generalizations about all trans people, before he punches down on all of us queers. He just gets a couple million more to do a shitty show that makes queer and trans people's lives harder and then I have to hear about how I need to waste more of my life on his shit before judging that it is indeed shitty.
posted by bile and syntax at 9:37 AM on October 21, 2021 [19 favorites]
Chapelle, on the other hand, isn't expected to meet every LGBT person - even every trans person in Ohio, even every Black trans person in Ohio - before he makes horrific generalizations about all trans people, before he punches down on all of us queers. He just gets a couple million more to do a shitty show that makes queer and trans people's lives harder and then I have to hear about how I need to waste more of my life on his shit before judging that it is indeed shitty.
posted by bile and syntax at 9:37 AM on October 21, 2021 [19 favorites]
(Is Eddie Izzard an asshole? Because I love her and I will be sad. )
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 10:04 AM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 10:04 AM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
I don't necessarily think asshole, but Eddie has been... not great.
posted by oneirodynia at 12:14 PM on October 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by oneirodynia at 12:14 PM on October 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
Is there a single successful comedian who isn't an asshole?
James Acaster?
(Well, on rewatch maybe he's an asshole to Christians who hate swearing, bigoted old people and another well-known comedian).
posted by oneirodynia at 12:28 PM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
James Acaster?
(Well, on rewatch maybe he's an asshole to Christians who hate swearing, bigoted old people and another well-known comedian).
posted by oneirodynia at 12:28 PM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
they couldn't have an opinion unless they went to the show
So much this.
It never stopped the [insert-majority-incumbent-here] from of protesting things they didn't like in the past;
Catholics protesting a movie they would never see (Dogma... where is the outrage for Midnight Mass?)
Netflix for having a 'racially diverse' category
Star Wars for 'implying' that fascism is evil
Hamilton
Beauty & the Beast
The Golden Compass
The Last Temptation of Christ
Black Jesus
The First Temptation of Christ
Religulous/Bill Mayer
Fundies in the 80's obsessed with table-top RPG'sthey had never read, nor seen
Legion of Decency
[insert-literally-thousands-of-other-examples-and-groups-including-politicians-and-police-forces-calling-for-boycotts]
Why don't they have to see all of these things before they form an opinion? Well - because historically, that would have defeated the purpose of boycotting things... The money would be going to the very same people that created the 'bad thing'.
It's always goalpost moves and "rules for thee, but not for me" with the incumbents.
posted by rozcakj at 1:29 PM on October 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
So much this.
It never stopped the [insert-majority-incumbent-here] from of protesting things they didn't like in the past;
Catholics protesting a movie they would never see (Dogma... where is the outrage for Midnight Mass?)
Netflix for having a 'racially diverse' category
Star Wars for 'implying' that fascism is evil
Hamilton
Beauty & the Beast
The Golden Compass
The Last Temptation of Christ
Black Jesus
The First Temptation of Christ
Religulous/Bill Mayer
Fundies in the 80's obsessed with table-top RPG'sthey had never read, nor seen
Legion of Decency
[insert-literally-thousands-of-other-examples-and-groups-including-politicians-and-police-forces-calling-for-boycotts]
Why don't they have to see all of these things before they form an opinion? Well - because historically, that would have defeated the purpose of boycotting things... The money would be going to the very same people that created the 'bad thing'.
It's always goalpost moves and "rules for thee, but not for me" with the incumbents.
posted by rozcakj at 1:29 PM on October 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
Also, people being critical of (reactionary YouTube blowhard) without having watched all 593 hours of his video polemics.
posted by acb at 1:46 PM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by acb at 1:46 PM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
Or decrying "cultural Marxism" and critical race theory despite having spent exactly 0 seconds reading up about any of it.
Or labelling Black Lives Matter as anti-white and the black KKK without having ever listening to anything the members say.
posted by Saxon Kane at 2:41 PM on October 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
Or labelling Black Lives Matter as anti-white and the black KKK without having ever listening to anything the members say.
posted by Saxon Kane at 2:41 PM on October 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
It's funny to see this conversation here because my wife's mom was telling us about the special and said for us to get the context/understand why it wasn't so bad we would have to watch this and also his previous special.
I just kind of fixed my eyes on the middle distance while mentally making it clear to anyone in a 300 foot radius of me that I would not be doing that.
Meanwhile, she got bored of Inside after like 10 minutes she said.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 3:01 PM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
I just kind of fixed my eyes on the middle distance while mentally making it clear to anyone in a 300 foot radius of me that I would not be doing that.
Meanwhile, she got bored of Inside after like 10 minutes she said.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 3:01 PM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
If someone thinks the criticism of the material is inaccurate or misleading, it seems obvious to me that the best way they could support their point of view would be by providing a thoughtful counterpoint to the criticism. If anyone has attempted such a response, I'd be curious to see it.
posted by thedward at 4:48 PM on October 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by thedward at 4:48 PM on October 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
Is there a single successful comedian who isn't an asshole?
Ryan Hamilton has one terrific Netflix special. Nate Bargatze is also good for non-asshole laughs.
posted by LooseFilter at 5:07 PM on October 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
Ryan Hamilton has one terrific Netflix special. Nate Bargatze is also good for non-asshole laughs.
posted by LooseFilter at 5:07 PM on October 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
No, I do not have to subject myself to hateful content directed at literally harming me in order to discuss it.
posted by augustimagination at 7:32 PM on October 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by augustimagination at 7:32 PM on October 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
Is there a single successful comedian who isn't an asshole?
Nicole Byer
Paul F Tompkins
Maria Bamford
Lauren Lapkus
Tig Notaro
to name a few- it's honestly really damn easy to name successful comedians who aren't assholes, so acting like it's some sort of requirement for the job says more about your tastes in comedy than anything else.
posted by augustimagination at 8:47 PM on October 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
Nicole Byer
Paul F Tompkins
Maria Bamford
Lauren Lapkus
Tig Notaro
to name a few- it's honestly really damn easy to name successful comedians who aren't assholes, so acting like it's some sort of requirement for the job says more about your tastes in comedy than anything else.
posted by augustimagination at 8:47 PM on October 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
I canceled my Netflix subscription over their handling of this special (well, more precisely, their handling of its aftermath, including firing a trans employee). I didn't watch it because I used to admire Chappelle but anybody paying attention could see his handling of equal rights issues w.r.t. trans folk wasn't going to go anywhere but directly to the dumpster. I caught a headline the other day about how some Netflix executive (CEO? Marketing? can't recall) acknowledged that they handled it badly... and then did not say "and we're re-hiring the trans employee we terminated." Fuck them.
posted by axiom at 9:54 PM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by axiom at 9:54 PM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
I think that, after this, discussing Netflix properties casually as implicitly universal shared cultural events is the same kind of red flag as asserting a Hogwarts house one belongs to: a sign of indifference to the human rights of trans people, if not active sympathy with anti-trans/anti-woke/reactionary/traditionalist forces.
posted by acb at 2:08 AM on October 22, 2021
posted by acb at 2:08 AM on October 22, 2021
i'm not sure i'm comfortable with a hard and fast rule like that, given that netflix is a platform and would probably be better placed in the same bucket as twitter, google, facebook, apple, amazon, and microsoft, in that they're amoral and will profess to inclusivity while being somewhat lazy about it?
while i've personally moved away from directly interacting with netflix because of it (and cleaved the subscription from the high-end to the absolute lowest-tier), it remains one of the more reliable ways for members of my family who share the account i pay for to view relatively recent k-dramas.
k-dramas which are branded as "netflix originals", even if they're actually just exclusively licensed from the actual broadcast companies that produced them.
this seems to me to be a difference in kind, not degree, from the hogwarts shit.
posted by i used to be someone else at 7:13 AM on October 22, 2021 [3 favorites]
while i've personally moved away from directly interacting with netflix because of it (and cleaved the subscription from the high-end to the absolute lowest-tier), it remains one of the more reliable ways for members of my family who share the account i pay for to view relatively recent k-dramas.
k-dramas which are branded as "netflix originals", even if they're actually just exclusively licensed from the actual broadcast companies that produced them.
this seems to me to be a difference in kind, not degree, from the hogwarts shit.
posted by i used to be someone else at 7:13 AM on October 22, 2021 [3 favorites]
After reading acb's comment, I'm at the bottom of the thread and it says "Squid Game Newer >>" for me to click. Ironic.
Anyway, supporting or not supporting a company is totally A-OK, but it seems to me that a company is inherently different than a person so your example of Netflix and J.K. Rowling kind of falls off. Maybe chik-fil-a? The reason being that a company encompasses a huge collection of people and in this case content. Like I am legitimately very happy that a Korean show has become one of the most popular ever, it's a cool personal (actually real life) story of how it's creator got it made. Whoever all worked on Squid Game is probably very separate from all the people who greenlit and worked on The Closer or whatever it's called.
I'm not defending any of those people, I guess I'm containing multitudes on this. If our only power in this situation is 1.) sub or don't 2.) watch or don't if subbed 3.) write them letters/do petitions/etc. then #1 is definitely a power play, but there's also power in #2 where you're showing them that a small percent of their users want this crap.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 7:25 AM on October 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Anyway, supporting or not supporting a company is totally A-OK, but it seems to me that a company is inherently different than a person so your example of Netflix and J.K. Rowling kind of falls off. Maybe chik-fil-a? The reason being that a company encompasses a huge collection of people and in this case content. Like I am legitimately very happy that a Korean show has become one of the most popular ever, it's a cool personal (actually real life) story of how it's creator got it made. Whoever all worked on Squid Game is probably very separate from all the people who greenlit and worked on The Closer or whatever it's called.
I'm not defending any of those people, I guess I'm containing multitudes on this. If our only power in this situation is 1.) sub or don't 2.) watch or don't if subbed 3.) write them letters/do petitions/etc. then #1 is definitely a power play, but there's also power in #2 where you're showing them that a small percent of their users want this crap.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 7:25 AM on October 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
From Vulture, by Danielle Fuentes Morgan: Dave Chappelle the Comedy Relic. Kinda says it all.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:39 AM on October 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by LooseFilter at 7:39 AM on October 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
Before we start accusing people of creating "another purity test," let's be clear: Netflix's trans employees aren't calling for a boycott, and contrary to the nasty disinformation campaign from both conservative and liberal transphobes, they're not even calling for the special to be removed. From their perspective, if your personal choice is to drop Netflix entirely, that's your call, and if you still want to watch non-transphobic content on Netflix, that's also your call.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 8:13 AM on October 22, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 8:13 AM on October 22, 2021 [12 favorites]
If Netflix are too big to boycott, then, by that account, surely so are Nestlé (on one hand, their infant-formula marketing in the developing world costs lives; OTOH, they have a monopoly on, say, matcha Kit-Kats, without which one's life is quantifiably impoverished)
posted by acb at 8:43 AM on October 22, 2021
posted by acb at 8:43 AM on October 22, 2021
From Vulture, by Danielle Fuentes Morgan: Dave Chappelle the Comedy Relic. Kinda says it all.
Came here to post this. Lots of good points, including:
He’s forgotten what my students know: that comedy exists in the terrain where boundaries are recognized and then transgressed without harming people who don’t deserve it. When boundaries are transgressed and people who don’t deserve it are harmed, it’s no longer comedy — it’s horror.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:30 AM on October 22, 2021 [7 favorites]
Came here to post this. Lots of good points, including:
He’s forgotten what my students know: that comedy exists in the terrain where boundaries are recognized and then transgressed without harming people who don’t deserve it. When boundaries are transgressed and people who don’t deserve it are harmed, it’s no longer comedy — it’s horror.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:30 AM on October 22, 2021 [7 favorites]
I saw part of it and it was pretty clear why people would have a problem with it, but I also understand that the idea that "you have to see it to have a real opinion" is just trying to get cash for controversy.
posted by Selena777 at 4:46 PM on October 22, 2021
posted by Selena777 at 4:46 PM on October 22, 2021
Kara Swisher at NYT watches it so you don't have to:
"First, while Chappelle is a truly gifted comic, he really is having trouble letting go of his pique at being labeled transphobic, something that has dogged him since early in his career.
Fine, he’s irritated, especially since the ever-churning internet has allowed the transphobic label to live on and on and on. Is it fair? Maybe not completely, to some. But he spends what feels like an awful lot of time lashing out at the trans community. Given that is a group of people who have suffered, and continue to suffer, more than other marginalized groups, Chappelle comes across as defensive and mean, even as he is talking about the need for empathy.
My second conclusion: In the course of the show, his act becomes, well, unfunny. As I watched, I wanted him to move on and cover other topics. He’s just obsessed."
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:48 PM on October 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
"First, while Chappelle is a truly gifted comic, he really is having trouble letting go of his pique at being labeled transphobic, something that has dogged him since early in his career.
Fine, he’s irritated, especially since the ever-churning internet has allowed the transphobic label to live on and on and on. Is it fair? Maybe not completely, to some. But he spends what feels like an awful lot of time lashing out at the trans community. Given that is a group of people who have suffered, and continue to suffer, more than other marginalized groups, Chappelle comes across as defensive and mean, even as he is talking about the need for empathy.
My second conclusion: In the course of the show, his act becomes, well, unfunny. As I watched, I wanted him to move on and cover other topics. He’s just obsessed."
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:48 PM on October 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
Yesterday, tagged the show to watch as it popped up on suggestions. This and a podcast convinced me otherwise. What a waste of future wit.
He will get watches checking the fuss and build more views as those pile monetization that way. So grift he chooses as does anyone recommending engaging first.
posted by filtergik at 12:30 PM on October 23, 2021
He will get watches checking the fuss and build more views as those pile monetization that way. So grift he chooses as does anyone recommending engaging first.
posted by filtergik at 12:30 PM on October 23, 2021
My second conclusion: In the course of the show, his act becomes, well, unfunny. As I watched, I wanted him to move on and cover other topics. He’s just obsessed.
That echoes my feeling when I started watching Dave Chapelle's Sticks and Stones. I'd already seen the first couple of Dave Chapelle's Netflix specials, and found them funny, if too "boundary pushing for its own sake"... but still funny. But then Sticks and Stones just kind of starts with a long defensive ramble about the queer community, and it was just... not funny, and I quickly turned it off. I suppose I could try watching The Closer just to make sure, but life's too short.
Obviously the worst thing about what Chapelle is doing is the damage its causing the trans community, but he's made it clear enough that that's not his concern. You'd think though he could recognize that he stopped being funny.
posted by Alex404 at 1:04 PM on October 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
That echoes my feeling when I started watching Dave Chapelle's Sticks and Stones. I'd already seen the first couple of Dave Chapelle's Netflix specials, and found them funny, if too "boundary pushing for its own sake"... but still funny. But then Sticks and Stones just kind of starts with a long defensive ramble about the queer community, and it was just... not funny, and I quickly turned it off. I suppose I could try watching The Closer just to make sure, but life's too short.
Obviously the worst thing about what Chapelle is doing is the damage its causing the trans community, but he's made it clear enough that that's not his concern. You'd think though he could recognize that he stopped being funny.
posted by Alex404 at 1:04 PM on October 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
I don't know if Bobcat Goldthwait still counts as successful, but he certainly sounds like someone who sees through Chappelle and Netflix's defenders' bullshit:
I actually don’t believe there’s a “cancel culture.” It just reminds me of like in the 80s when a shock jock would get fined by the FCC or get in trouble with management or a sponsor. They would say, “I’m getting killed by the man,” and then that person’s fans would rally behind them, and they would end up making millions of dollars.posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 7:41 AM on October 24, 2021 [17 favorites]
When people use the term cancel culture, it’s just a way of people marginalizing marginalized groups, and it gives permission to their audience to feel like they’re the victim. No one’s freedom of speech is being taken away. All these millionaires are going to keep on making millions of dollars.
If it boils down to a millionaire and a major corporation versus people who are being murdered and have a high rate of suicide, which side do you think I’m going to be on? I’m going to be on the side of marginalized people. I’ve always considered myself an outsider, you know?
Chappelle issued a statement via Instagram, because of course he did. It reads, in part:
posted by box at 10:01 AM on October 27, 2021
"To the transgender community, I'm more than willing to give you an audience, but you will not summon me. I am not bending to anybody's demands. If you want to meet with me, I'd be more than willing to, but I have some conditions.It's going to be hard to continue to be a successful comedian when you're that bad at reading a room.
"First of all, you cannot come if you have not watched my special from beginning to end. You must come to a place of my choosing, and a time of my choosing. And thirdly, you must admit that Hannah Gadsby is not funny.
posted by box at 10:01 AM on October 27, 2021
Matt Taibbi: Cancel Culture Takes a Big "L" (Audio +Scrolling)
This is a good video if you want to hear a grown man whom some people take seriously intone, "The Arrested Development meme." as a single sentence with a deadly serious full stop, in the voice and manner that I would associate with a twenty year old high school dropout, who thinks he was too smart for school, getting to the final lines of "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening."
posted by fleacircus at 10:41 AM on October 27, 2021
This is a good video if you want to hear a grown man whom some people take seriously intone, "The Arrested Development meme." as a single sentence with a deadly serious full stop, in the voice and manner that I would associate with a twenty year old high school dropout, who thinks he was too smart for school, getting to the final lines of "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening."
posted by fleacircus at 10:41 AM on October 27, 2021
God, whatever happened to the fun Matt Taibbi of the eXile and the "worst people in the world" list? Or was he always shit and I've gotten better?
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 10:56 AM on October 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 10:56 AM on October 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
I recall reading that he’s apparently always been kind of shitty to women who work for him, which just didn’t interact quite as much or as obviously with his earlier good reporting on economic / political economy issues, which he maybe used to focus on a little better?
posted by eviemath at 11:44 AM on October 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by eviemath at 11:44 AM on October 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
Ah yes, Matt Taibbi, the misogynistic shitbag who encourages his followers to buy a book subtitled "The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters".
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:55 AM on October 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:55 AM on October 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
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"The crucial question the left needs to examine is why its messaging is becoming more rigid even as it seems less appealing to so many; why black men in particular seem increasingly susceptible to alt-right-adjacent free-thinking"
This comes after dismissing the part where Chapelle is explaining exactly that:
"As many of us know by now, the conceit of Chappelle’s latest set is a disingenuous analogy: DaBaby faced graver consequences for making off-the-cuff homophobic remarks at a show than he did for murdering a black man in Walmart. It’s the sort of out-of-context, sophistic gambit in which the most cynical members of the right delight...Chapelle promised it would get worse, and he proceeded in disingenuous fashion. He conflated transitioning with black face—a comparison that is unsound, ahistorical, counterfactual, and does disservice to both the depravity of minstrelsy and the quest of trans people (like his deceased friend Daphne Dorman) to have a human experience with some dignity. He engaged in the sort of reductive white gaze he tends to critique when he dismissed the MeToo movement as white, despite it having roots in the courage and efforts of black women. He consistently discussed being queer as a white identity, adding an inadequate disclaimer as an afterthought"
Tearing Chapelle to shreds and then wondering why Black men are skeptical is...well...impressive.
posted by Galvanic at 9:21 AM on October 20, 2021 [3 favorites]