rich ideological texts of whiteness and domesticity!
October 20, 2021 4:34 PM Subscribe
The Ideological Battlefield of the "Mamasphere." Anne Helen Petersen interviews Kathryn Jezer-Morton - currently writing her PhD dissertation on the topic - about "momfluencers" and the rise, growth, and transmogrification of mommy-blogging.
"I’m not a mom but I like to know what the moms are up to. You should too, regardless of your identity, because “the moms” — meaning, the moms embodying and directing ideals of femininity and domesticity and parenting — have a lot of power, and power demands attention."
Jezer-Morton has her own newly-started substack - Mothers under The Influence - and in 2019 wrote a piece for the NYT, "Did Moms Exist Before Social Media?" (archive link.)
Jezer-Morton has her own newly-started substack - Mothers under The Influence - and in 2019 wrote a piece for the NYT, "Did Moms Exist Before Social Media?" (archive link.)
The first edition of your newsletter is about a mom influencer who really drew out the announcement of the gender/name of her fourth child. You assumed it was a means of boosting engagement — and I remember you tweeting about this, and I totally agreed with you. But then, because you have an established relationship with her from previous interviews….you just asked her what was going on? And her response was much more complicated (and much less, in some ways). I think there’s a real reticence to 1) ask people what they’re doing with their online performance and representation and 2) trust them to have any sort of objectivity (or even transparency or ‘honesty’) when it comes to describing their thought processes or motivations.
I get it, but I also think that it sometimes assumes that all of these moms are afflicted with some sort of false consciousness — it can feel really infantilizing, or misogynistic, or as so common with women in the public sphere, both. How do you think through these tensions in your own analysis? What’s lost when we don’t take momfluencers seriously?
Fuck, what a great question from a great interview.
posted by sciatrix at 5:40 PM on October 20, 2021 [21 favorites]
I get it, but I also think that it sometimes assumes that all of these moms are afflicted with some sort of false consciousness — it can feel really infantilizing, or misogynistic, or as so common with women in the public sphere, both. How do you think through these tensions in your own analysis? What’s lost when we don’t take momfluencers seriously?
Fuck, what a great question from a great interview.
posted by sciatrix at 5:40 PM on October 20, 2021 [21 favorites]
AHP often mentions being angry at people whose writing she likes because they’re so good. I’m feeling that way about AHP’s entire oeuvre these days. She is on a whole cultural observation tear.
posted by migurski at 6:41 PM on October 20, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by migurski at 6:41 PM on October 20, 2021 [13 favorites]
As someone who was professionally involved with mommy bloggers: fuck yeah this piece was great. I was hoping it was posted. I may have more thoughts when I haven’t just worked 3 13 hr days in a row.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:22 PM on October 20, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 7:22 PM on October 20, 2021 [5 favorites]
I was a Dooce reader back when there were dinosaurs. The charcuteries look exhausting.
The moms with young kids in my life all echo this stuff in their own social media postings. The chalkboard, letterboard, whateverboard... the twee knockoff Anne Geddes newborn photo shoots. I'll say this for all of it - we will look back on this age of Edison bulbs and sponcon and be able to fix the point in time as clearly as an avocado colored fridge could do for its own time. Or my bowl haircut in my kindergarten school picture.
posted by sockshaveholes at 7:37 PM on October 20, 2021 [14 favorites]
The moms with young kids in my life all echo this stuff in their own social media postings. The chalkboard, letterboard, whateverboard... the twee knockoff Anne Geddes newborn photo shoots. I'll say this for all of it - we will look back on this age of Edison bulbs and sponcon and be able to fix the point in time as clearly as an avocado colored fridge could do for its own time. Or my bowl haircut in my kindergarten school picture.
posted by sockshaveholes at 7:37 PM on October 20, 2021 [14 favorites]
Mo[m]etize with momfluence.co! (Deals are made with brands. Big-ticket items will probably get taken back. No wonder the kitchens get renovated all the time.)
Looks like unpaid-intern gig labor as advertising shops, is the practical problem.
posted by clew at 8:24 PM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
Looks like unpaid-intern gig labor as advertising shops, is the practical problem.
posted by clew at 8:24 PM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
Lots of things come to mind after reading this. One is how when I was pregnant I read a lot of buzzfeed lists of "things I wish someone told me about being pregnant" or "things no one ever tells you about parenting" or whatever. And they were so incredibly repetitive. Almost none of it was new to me. There are even waves - there was a wave of everyone talking about the first poop after you give birth. The lists always end with people who never knew how much they would love their baby.
I'm not sure the connection exactly. Just that once a performance (even of the negative or non-picture perfect) parts of motherhood has a moment, it is everywhere. Like the letterboards.
posted by Emmy Rae at 8:46 PM on October 20, 2021 [8 favorites]
I'm not sure the connection exactly. Just that once a performance (even of the negative or non-picture perfect) parts of motherhood has a moment, it is everywhere. Like the letterboards.
posted by Emmy Rae at 8:46 PM on October 20, 2021 [8 favorites]
I don't see condemnation in that interview. I see threads of a really interesting analysis (a framework, as MonkeyToes said), as befits a good scholar; not 'HAHA MOMS AMIRITE' or shooting fish in a barrel.
posted by theatro at 9:24 PM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by theatro at 9:24 PM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
I kept copying blocks of text from the interview into the comment box so I could write about them, but it all become so unwieldy that I gave up.
Thanks for this, it is very interesting and immensely quotable.
posted by Alex404 at 12:12 AM on October 21, 2021
Thanks for this, it is very interesting and immensely quotable.
posted by Alex404 at 12:12 AM on October 21, 2021
What concerns me with these things is examination of social media content like this (especially normative!) is it's always incredibly critical of feminine art, finding some way to suggest a certain lack of deserving, or malice in any power they have. I am not blind to the professional Instagram mothers hiding the network and wealth supporting their product... but I think about how we excuse some things but not others.
It's a good question to consider and I think there are basically two separate but deeply related issues involved in this. The first is in, essentially, how much people can trust those that influence to do so responsibly, or in how they themselves may be responding to outside forces, as with the algorithm elements of the discussion. These are absolutely vital questions that need to be asked because the dynamics of wealth and power have a logic of their own that can effect women as well as men, and women are every bit as capable of attaining and wielding that power when given a fair chance, so as the culture transitions to new forms of social interaction and power, there must be attention paid to where that is going and what influence the "pleasures" of it may have.
At the same time though the history of patriarchal society should indeed make people cautious over who is asking those questions, how the questions are being raised and what the base level assumptions are behind them. There is absolutely good reason to distrust how women will be treated by media for a long history of abuse in those hands. That too is a method of managing and creating power that informs the dynamics of the entire social media system, among other things, all other things really.
One of the dangers of a transitional period is in seeing the rise of some new pleasures, formerly ignored, get attention and reveling in those newly visible interests while allowing one's shared appreciation for those things blind us to how they can be manipulated like all other interests towards something that has potentially harmful social consequence. Those "questioning" trends are not any different, their interests are as informed by social forces and desires for reactionary or liberating ideals. Anyone interested in how pleasure, power, and responsibility intersect needs to not only pay attention to the people being examined, like the moms, and those questioning them, but themselves as well to make sure they aren't letting their enjoyments reinforce harmful power structures. From the interview it sounds like Petersen and Jezer-Morton are doing exactly that.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:15 AM on October 21, 2021 [8 favorites]
It's a good question to consider and I think there are basically two separate but deeply related issues involved in this. The first is in, essentially, how much people can trust those that influence to do so responsibly, or in how they themselves may be responding to outside forces, as with the algorithm elements of the discussion. These are absolutely vital questions that need to be asked because the dynamics of wealth and power have a logic of their own that can effect women as well as men, and women are every bit as capable of attaining and wielding that power when given a fair chance, so as the culture transitions to new forms of social interaction and power, there must be attention paid to where that is going and what influence the "pleasures" of it may have.
At the same time though the history of patriarchal society should indeed make people cautious over who is asking those questions, how the questions are being raised and what the base level assumptions are behind them. There is absolutely good reason to distrust how women will be treated by media for a long history of abuse in those hands. That too is a method of managing and creating power that informs the dynamics of the entire social media system, among other things, all other things really.
One of the dangers of a transitional period is in seeing the rise of some new pleasures, formerly ignored, get attention and reveling in those newly visible interests while allowing one's shared appreciation for those things blind us to how they can be manipulated like all other interests towards something that has potentially harmful social consequence. Those "questioning" trends are not any different, their interests are as informed by social forces and desires for reactionary or liberating ideals. Anyone interested in how pleasure, power, and responsibility intersect needs to not only pay attention to the people being examined, like the moms, and those questioning them, but themselves as well to make sure they aren't letting their enjoyments reinforce harmful power structures. From the interview it sounds like Petersen and Jezer-Morton are doing exactly that.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:15 AM on October 21, 2021 [8 favorites]
What concerns me with these things is examination of social media content like this (especially normative!) is it's always incredibly critical of feminine art, finding some way to suggest a certain lack of deserving, or malice in any power they have. I am not blind to the professional Instagram mothers hiding the network and wealth supporting their product... but I think about how we excuse some things but not others.
I mean sure, that's a danger.
I think though there's a history and an element here that you may be missing and that the piece touches on but maybe doesn't explore thoroughly (which is fine!)
The original mommy bloggers were expressing their experience in opposition, essentially, to the cultural narrative. Third wave feminism was in a sense responding to second wave feminism and so some of the dialogue around parenting was shifting from "she can make the bacon and bring it home and fry it up in a pan" to whether women choosing to step out of employment outside the home was a regression to lessened economic power for women or forward to recognition of the value of that unpaid labour.
Also remember that women have been confronting a lot of narratives about motherhood. I think for white middle class women the ghost in the closet so to speak is the "angel of the house" -- the person who sublimates her own personal goals and dreams into creating not just a nominally functional household but a serene, ultimately functional household.
We all know publications like Ms. have historically had a very hard time funding themselves because Rubbermaid and Kraft and P&G and SUV companies and Target do not have any real interest in putting advertising pages up next to columns that are questioning the need for women to have beautiful linens, organize their pantry shelves on weekends into matching containers, and ensure their family units are productive (and busy!) enough to buy XYZ - driving there in their safe, luxury vehicle. And maintaining a household that can afford all of that without also demanding raises to minimum wage for their front-line and manufacturing workers.
Mommy bloggers in their original form were documenting their "real" (caution: all narrative is constructed) experience in trying to navigate those waters, against the narratives presented in traditional, advertiser-funded publications. Because blogging was not originally a visual medium in the way that Instagram or Tik Tok are now, it was presenting a lot of women's interior lives. The reason Dooce is both held up and villified as the OG sell out (Ree Drummond actually carved the path but she was a marketing professional before she started Pioneer Woman) is because she came into her audience by being real about her PPD etc., but then worked so hard to transform her narrative into a lifestyle brand that she was talking to HGTV at one point.
Is that wrong? No, like, there is nothing morally wrong with individual women going through the process of monetizing their brands.
However is there a very sick system? There is. Because what happened was that as print media and media advertising was collapsing, the advertisers, assisted by VERY VERY slick and predatory PR companies, took their budgets and invested probably like 10-15% of what they were spending in advertising into wooing mommy bloggers.
I was present, professionally and personally, for that, and it was pretty disgusting. In magazines -- NOT that magazines were pure, but -- there was at least some editorial distance, as in, writers did not accept money to write about how the Ford SUV made their family trip possible! Particularly I have to say at the start of the 00s there was still a lot of editorial control about whether reviewers and writers were accepting stuff directly from companies. (Of course the people writing the paycheques were, but there was at least some degree of separation.)
But once the companies realized it was cheaper and easier to just go to the bloggers directly and offer them first goods and then cash to present their products, they went. to. town. And so a medium which had been interior and connective and community building suddenly became about who could get the most swag at BlogHer and who would land the best deal and it became, from my point of view, a really fast race to the bottom editorially.
So now you have women supporting their families by crafting the narrative of the easy breezy Covergirl Family, shot in pale peach and washed out greys, the children posed, etc.
And you might say, why shouldn't women profit? Well, it's a great question. I mean, why not? Except...and here's where I have my opinion, these women are not sending their kids to school and sitting down with an editor and going out and interviewing others and examining trends or research and then developing a narrative, biased or not. They are literally turning their own families into the narrative, all the time.
And like, ok, For me personally that is horrific but maybe it's ok, I don't know. But I do know that the algorithm which promotes them, the money that funds their drive to continue to craft a PARTICULAR narrative, which includes clean and tidy and colour coordinated pantries and jeans with the trendy rise level whether that's low or high rise, the gleaming new car, the $3500 car tent, etc., is BIG CORPORATE DOLLARS.
And where I came from, you at least knew you were buying your magazine from A COMPANY, not like, "following your friend."
Are people fooled? I think they are not fully fooled, but it does fuel the you-must-go-farther, you-are-not-good-enough narrative that is rightly critiqued in media, but comes across as petty and personal and "putting women down" when the critique is tied to a single individual. And P&G and GM and Kraft and Amazon know that. So they continue to provide the prizes in the race to the Most Authentic (and Beautiful) Lifestyle.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:55 AM on October 21, 2021 [59 favorites]
I mean sure, that's a danger.
I think though there's a history and an element here that you may be missing and that the piece touches on but maybe doesn't explore thoroughly (which is fine!)
The original mommy bloggers were expressing their experience in opposition, essentially, to the cultural narrative. Third wave feminism was in a sense responding to second wave feminism and so some of the dialogue around parenting was shifting from "she can make the bacon and bring it home and fry it up in a pan" to whether women choosing to step out of employment outside the home was a regression to lessened economic power for women or forward to recognition of the value of that unpaid labour.
Also remember that women have been confronting a lot of narratives about motherhood. I think for white middle class women the ghost in the closet so to speak is the "angel of the house" -- the person who sublimates her own personal goals and dreams into creating not just a nominally functional household but a serene, ultimately functional household.
We all know publications like Ms. have historically had a very hard time funding themselves because Rubbermaid and Kraft and P&G and SUV companies and Target do not have any real interest in putting advertising pages up next to columns that are questioning the need for women to have beautiful linens, organize their pantry shelves on weekends into matching containers, and ensure their family units are productive (and busy!) enough to buy XYZ - driving there in their safe, luxury vehicle. And maintaining a household that can afford all of that without also demanding raises to minimum wage for their front-line and manufacturing workers.
Mommy bloggers in their original form were documenting their "real" (caution: all narrative is constructed) experience in trying to navigate those waters, against the narratives presented in traditional, advertiser-funded publications. Because blogging was not originally a visual medium in the way that Instagram or Tik Tok are now, it was presenting a lot of women's interior lives. The reason Dooce is both held up and villified as the OG sell out (Ree Drummond actually carved the path but she was a marketing professional before she started Pioneer Woman) is because she came into her audience by being real about her PPD etc., but then worked so hard to transform her narrative into a lifestyle brand that she was talking to HGTV at one point.
Is that wrong? No, like, there is nothing morally wrong with individual women going through the process of monetizing their brands.
However is there a very sick system? There is. Because what happened was that as print media and media advertising was collapsing, the advertisers, assisted by VERY VERY slick and predatory PR companies, took their budgets and invested probably like 10-15% of what they were spending in advertising into wooing mommy bloggers.
I was present, professionally and personally, for that, and it was pretty disgusting. In magazines -- NOT that magazines were pure, but -- there was at least some editorial distance, as in, writers did not accept money to write about how the Ford SUV made their family trip possible! Particularly I have to say at the start of the 00s there was still a lot of editorial control about whether reviewers and writers were accepting stuff directly from companies. (Of course the people writing the paycheques were, but there was at least some degree of separation.)
But once the companies realized it was cheaper and easier to just go to the bloggers directly and offer them first goods and then cash to present their products, they went. to. town. And so a medium which had been interior and connective and community building suddenly became about who could get the most swag at BlogHer and who would land the best deal and it became, from my point of view, a really fast race to the bottom editorially.
So now you have women supporting their families by crafting the narrative of the easy breezy Covergirl Family, shot in pale peach and washed out greys, the children posed, etc.
And you might say, why shouldn't women profit? Well, it's a great question. I mean, why not? Except...and here's where I have my opinion, these women are not sending their kids to school and sitting down with an editor and going out and interviewing others and examining trends or research and then developing a narrative, biased or not. They are literally turning their own families into the narrative, all the time.
And like, ok, For me personally that is horrific but maybe it's ok, I don't know. But I do know that the algorithm which promotes them, the money that funds their drive to continue to craft a PARTICULAR narrative, which includes clean and tidy and colour coordinated pantries and jeans with the trendy rise level whether that's low or high rise, the gleaming new car, the $3500 car tent, etc., is BIG CORPORATE DOLLARS.
And where I came from, you at least knew you were buying your magazine from A COMPANY, not like, "following your friend."
Are people fooled? I think they are not fully fooled, but it does fuel the you-must-go-farther, you-are-not-good-enough narrative that is rightly critiqued in media, but comes across as petty and personal and "putting women down" when the critique is tied to a single individual. And P&G and GM and Kraft and Amazon know that. So they continue to provide the prizes in the race to the Most Authentic (and Beautiful) Lifestyle.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:55 AM on October 21, 2021 [59 favorites]
I see a lot more "cutting women down" in the impossible expectations that the successful momfluencers are normalizing. It’s just women offscreen being cut down.
posted by clew at 7:33 AM on October 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by clew at 7:33 AM on October 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
I could go on and on too but some additional thoughts:
- the women doing the labour are self-employed, so there is no pension, no minimum wage, no oversight on the amount of child labour involved, and no support or severance when things go wrong and your audience turns on you or all the corporations pull their funding because you revealed you're [x unacceptable thing. Like getting divorced.]
- if you think it's not child labour, it really is. I've seen the behind the scenes and it can get very ugly.
- I can't speak to specific people but I can say that I have seen the family lives behind some big influencers and there is as big a reality gap, if not bigger, than in celebrity culture. For one, the presented lifestyle is sponsored and so it is often way more affluent than the reality. You get the luxury vacation but you can't actually pay for the next; you have high-end furniture but you are chasing down invoices to pay the mortgage.
I know a blogger who wrote a breezy gift guide about how much the family loved XYZ products 3 weeks after her child found her husband dead of suicide/overdose. She wrote it because she had to pay the bills.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:39 AM on October 21, 2021 [40 favorites]
- the women doing the labour are self-employed, so there is no pension, no minimum wage, no oversight on the amount of child labour involved, and no support or severance when things go wrong and your audience turns on you or all the corporations pull their funding because you revealed you're [x unacceptable thing. Like getting divorced.]
- if you think it's not child labour, it really is. I've seen the behind the scenes and it can get very ugly.
- I can't speak to specific people but I can say that I have seen the family lives behind some big influencers and there is as big a reality gap, if not bigger, than in celebrity culture. For one, the presented lifestyle is sponsored and so it is often way more affluent than the reality. You get the luxury vacation but you can't actually pay for the next; you have high-end furniture but you are chasing down invoices to pay the mortgage.
I know a blogger who wrote a breezy gift guide about how much the family loved XYZ products 3 weeks after her child found her husband dead of suicide/overdose. She wrote it because she had to pay the bills.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:39 AM on October 21, 2021 [40 favorites]
Metafilter: a human sized heteronormative dollhouse.
posted by eustatic at 8:02 AM on October 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by eustatic at 8:02 AM on October 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
Are people fooled? I think they are not fully fooled
This is one of the more fascinating aspects of the influencer culture boom. While there is certainly a wide spectrum of responses in any audience for such things that covers flat out belief and strong emotional attachment to the narratives presented to casual browsing of the pictures and ideas as a time killer, there is also notably a large segment of the audiences for these that knows exactly what the deal is and engages with it as a semi-professional endeavor and may critique it as such.
Some of this audience wants to be influencers themselves, so engaging with other blogs can build their brand or provide ideas to use, while others, particularly younger people who've been on the internet for most of their lives just understand how it all works and judge it through that lens of success and failure, though not necessarily digging into it as a social or systemic critique, more as understanding influencing as another branch of the entertainment industry.
posted by gusottertrout at 8:16 AM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
This is one of the more fascinating aspects of the influencer culture boom. While there is certainly a wide spectrum of responses in any audience for such things that covers flat out belief and strong emotional attachment to the narratives presented to casual browsing of the pictures and ideas as a time killer, there is also notably a large segment of the audiences for these that knows exactly what the deal is and engages with it as a semi-professional endeavor and may critique it as such.
Some of this audience wants to be influencers themselves, so engaging with other blogs can build their brand or provide ideas to use, while others, particularly younger people who've been on the internet for most of their lives just understand how it all works and judge it through that lens of success and failure, though not necessarily digging into it as a social or systemic critique, more as understanding influencing as another branch of the entertainment industry.
posted by gusottertrout at 8:16 AM on October 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
To back up what warriorqueen is saying, the podcast Under the Influence is a recent look at the reality of influencer labor and lived experience from a woman who is pro-influencer enough to spend a considerable chunk of the podcast actively considering attempting to become one before deciding, very explicitly, that the necessary costs are too high--and the labor demanded of her children to pose for the necessary photographs is a big piece of that decision.
No matter what you think of the women who work as influencers--and it is work, often very hard work--I think it is naive to assume that this is an industry that isn't rife with exploitation and big, big profits, with individual influencers involved in all possible dimensions.
posted by sciatrix at 8:19 AM on October 21, 2021 [9 favorites]
No matter what you think of the women who work as influencers--and it is work, often very hard work--I think it is naive to assume that this is an industry that isn't rife with exploitation and big, big profits, with individual influencers involved in all possible dimensions.
posted by sciatrix at 8:19 AM on October 21, 2021 [9 favorites]
I don't know much about this, but it seems to me that the "mamasphere" contains two very different ideas.
One, in which a mother is a struggling writer on the internet. Pre or post search engine optimization.
Second, in which the mother is an uncompensated advertising creative worker, film editor, location scout, art director, production assistant, director, and actor.
The amount of labor required for the second seems overwhelmingly enormous, which may be driving this wistfulness for the time when one was merely an uncompensated writer for Google, rather than an uncompensated production crew for Instagram.
posted by eustatic at 8:24 AM on October 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
One, in which a mother is a struggling writer on the internet. Pre or post search engine optimization.
Second, in which the mother is an uncompensated advertising creative worker, film editor, location scout, art director, production assistant, director, and actor.
The amount of labor required for the second seems overwhelmingly enormous, which may be driving this wistfulness for the time when one was merely an uncompensated writer for Google, rather than an uncompensated production crew for Instagram.
posted by eustatic at 8:24 AM on October 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
The amount of labor required for the second seems overwhelmingly enormous, which may be driving this wistfulness for the time when one was merely an uncompensated writer for Google, rather than an uncompensated production crew for Instagram.
Mmmm.
I had two reasonably well-trafficked (for their niches) blogs during that time. One was an infertility blog in the days of infertility blogs. It was there really to connect with the other people with those blogs, especially the big six, and that group of women saved my spirit at a truly difficult time.
The other was a blog about being neurodivergent, which I kept for I think a decade. That one had less traffic than a mainstream blog but put me in a touch with a lot of people, including researchers and writers, in an area that's like 1% of the population relevant.
Both were labour but they were "third spaces" for me and not about being paid. I didn't really care about Google; because I was working in the content field professionally I used to mess around with my stats and play around a bit with content, until I de-indexed them because my child was getting old enough to read and ultimately retired them.
I think one thing I'm sad about is that now that gets framed as "uncompensated writer for Google" when it was creative, connective, and reflective. Never really made a dime on it and couldn't care less.
Way back a whole 15 years ago, I don't think I had the expectation that everything I loved to do would pay off. And yes that is to some degree privilege although I was also working full time...but it's a privilege I hope we can maintain for humanity.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:39 AM on October 21, 2021 [9 favorites]
Mmmm.
I had two reasonably well-trafficked (for their niches) blogs during that time. One was an infertility blog in the days of infertility blogs. It was there really to connect with the other people with those blogs, especially the big six, and that group of women saved my spirit at a truly difficult time.
The other was a blog about being neurodivergent, which I kept for I think a decade. That one had less traffic than a mainstream blog but put me in a touch with a lot of people, including researchers and writers, in an area that's like 1% of the population relevant.
Both were labour but they were "third spaces" for me and not about being paid. I didn't really care about Google; because I was working in the content field professionally I used to mess around with my stats and play around a bit with content, until I de-indexed them because my child was getting old enough to read and ultimately retired them.
I think one thing I'm sad about is that now that gets framed as "uncompensated writer for Google" when it was creative, connective, and reflective. Never really made a dime on it and couldn't care less.
Way back a whole 15 years ago, I don't think I had the expectation that everything I loved to do would pay off. And yes that is to some degree privilege although I was also working full time...but it's a privilege I hope we can maintain for humanity.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:39 AM on October 21, 2021 [9 favorites]
I am a guy, but I remember learning a lot by reading blogs by mothers - many of which were simply lost when the platform closed up shop, or were wiped when the writer buttoned.
For example, I want to say that there was one called The Major Fall The Minor Lift or something, but on my phone I can't find it -- only a music blog with the same name -- and I wish I could re-read it because I have hazy memories about some good writing from a perspective that was new to me.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:51 AM on October 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
For example, I want to say that there was one called The Major Fall The Minor Lift or something, but on my phone I can't find it -- only a music blog with the same name -- and I wish I could re-read it because I have hazy memories about some good writing from a perspective that was new to me.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:51 AM on October 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
I loved this interview. I have long had a knee-jerk negative reaction to this slice of the internet, I think maybe stemming from some feelings that MonkeyToes describes well upthread. Everything about this type of blogging makes me feel alienated from my gender in a really uncomfortable way, and I've always found it easier not to engage. I'm wondering now if it might actually be more useful to sit with that discomfort instead. Thanks for this post.
posted by eirias at 12:23 PM on October 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by eirias at 12:23 PM on October 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
I miss blogs in general. The memory holing of the blog years is erasure of a kind that Gen Xers have come to just sort of shrug at, because that kind of thing happens to us over and over.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:28 PM on October 21, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:28 PM on October 21, 2021 [8 favorites]
What a great interview. I also loved the article about the letterboards! As a nonmom, I find this stuff by turns anthropologically fascinating and horrifying, and I echo eirias' gender trouble feelings. I was intrigued by Jezer-Morton's passing comment about the white Christian mamasphere and the Black Christian mamasphere being relatively non-overlapping, and now I'm curious what kind of femininity and affective expertise is being constructed in the Black mamasphere, or even what the dynamics of precarity are among influencers of color.
posted by All hands bury the dead at 12:39 PM on October 21, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by All hands bury the dead at 12:39 PM on October 21, 2021 [9 favorites]
one called The Major Fall The Minor Lift or something
Yes, that was a blog I think written by Alex Balk who later did some stuff for Deadspin and the Gawker empire when it was still an okay thing. He was an exceptional writer. No idea what he's doing now.
Of course there were also non-mommy blogs then too, about young women having fun, occasionally reviewing music, and living life without children attached. My personal favorite was Catherine's Pita. Blog really were an amazing reading source back in the olden days.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:16 PM on October 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
Yes, that was a blog I think written by Alex Balk who later did some stuff for Deadspin and the Gawker empire when it was still an okay thing. He was an exceptional writer. No idea what he's doing now.
Of course there were also non-mommy blogs then too, about young women having fun, occasionally reviewing music, and living life without children attached. My personal favorite was Catherine's Pita. Blog really were an amazing reading source back in the olden days.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:16 PM on October 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
She started her Master’s degree after having her second child, when she realized that 1) writing for lifestyle media was not sustainable but 2) she still wanted to be a writer and researcher, and a PhD would help her figure out how to develop an expertise in something she very much wanted to write about. She’s worked full-time through the process and doesn’t plan to look for a job in academia,
oh my god, this is exactly why I want to do PhDs. I had to stop reading here to just enjoy finding out that someone else has actually done this - I get the most ridiculous looks when I say something like that in real life.
posted by bashing rocks together at 9:21 PM on October 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
oh my god, this is exactly why I want to do PhDs. I had to stop reading here to just enjoy finding out that someone else has actually done this - I get the most ridiculous looks when I say something like that in real life.
posted by bashing rocks together at 9:21 PM on October 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
Mommy blogger isn't cutting anyone down by existing, any more than Ms. Banner is, by not mentioning that her lifestyle has an immense background support on *that*. Or a Kincaid painting is setting people up to fail because chocolate box cottages are thin on the ground. Does the art, with its unseen photo assistants, PAs and probable nannies set an impossible standard? Sure, but they aren't inventing it, just monetizing it.
I think you have some good points. But for me, I would rather create something and then sell it, rather than collaborate with a brand to create something. For me there is a very significant difference between writing a piece about my kids needing tutoring post-pandemic (something I wouldn't do personally right now, but is a pretty important story right now) and then selling it, and having an ad appear next to it, and collaborating with a brand in order to come up with a story that will demonstrate the power of Sylvan Tutoring. Even if my kids have never been to Sylvan.
And...although there have been artists who have included products in their art as part of a sponsorship deal - Rockwell comes to mind - I personally don't think Kincaid's paintings would be the same if he'd included Pottery Barn or written a caption underneath about how investing in TD Bank Mutual Funds has made his dream of owning a cottage closer to reality.
What made me sad for my influencer friend wasn't that she had to work three weeks later. It's that her blog, which originally documented her actual experience, never mentioned any of that and instead had gifts for the whole family, which no longer existed. I don't think she owed anyone her pain, but I also know that had she shared it, she would have received pushback from brands that wouldn't have wanted to be associated with addiction and mental illness.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:00 AM on October 22, 2021 [6 favorites]
I think you have some good points. But for me, I would rather create something and then sell it, rather than collaborate with a brand to create something. For me there is a very significant difference between writing a piece about my kids needing tutoring post-pandemic (something I wouldn't do personally right now, but is a pretty important story right now) and then selling it, and having an ad appear next to it, and collaborating with a brand in order to come up with a story that will demonstrate the power of Sylvan Tutoring. Even if my kids have never been to Sylvan.
And...although there have been artists who have included products in their art as part of a sponsorship deal - Rockwell comes to mind - I personally don't think Kincaid's paintings would be the same if he'd included Pottery Barn or written a caption underneath about how investing in TD Bank Mutual Funds has made his dream of owning a cottage closer to reality.
What made me sad for my influencer friend wasn't that she had to work three weeks later. It's that her blog, which originally documented her actual experience, never mentioned any of that and instead had gifts for the whole family, which no longer existed. I don't think she owed anyone her pain, but I also know that had she shared it, she would have received pushback from brands that wouldn't have wanted to be associated with addiction and mental illness.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:00 AM on October 22, 2021 [6 favorites]
I finally had a chance to listen to the podcast Sciatrix referenced about, which I thought was an episode of CBC's Under the Influence but is its own podcast and I really have been enjoying listening to it, thank you!
posted by warriorqueen at 7:09 AM on October 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 7:09 AM on October 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
Oh, wonderful! I vaguely thought I had heard about it from here but maybe not. I was really impressed with the care the host takes to try to understand where everyone is coming from in the industry and the lived realities of working within it.
posted by sciatrix at 7:28 AM on October 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by sciatrix at 7:28 AM on October 24, 2021 [2 favorites]
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The white mamasphere is a place where a fundamental ideology of white supremacy — that whiteness is raceless, and all other races are racialized — is still pretty much completely hegemonic. See also: Seyward Darby's Sisters in Hate: American Women on the Front Lines of White Nationalism.
I wonder if the next phase we’ll see is “real talk,” which used to be the purview of all mommyblogs, becoming a mark of privilege. And now I want part 2 of AHP's interview with Kathryn Jezer-Morton, the one that starts with this question.
Anyway, relevant to many of my interests. Thanks for posting this, soundguy99.
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:29 PM on October 20, 2021 [15 favorites]