What happens when your favorite thing goes viral?
October 27, 2021 1:35 AM Subscribe
No Children, a 2002 song by The Mountain Goats is having a moment on TikTok. TV's Wonder Woman approves and other long time Mountain Goats fans are working through their feelings. John Darnielle, singer and songwriter in the band, seems to be letting it all wash over him.
I was at that Boston show (which was magical, people were really ecstatic to attend live music again) and he was fantastically bemused when he brought this up. I'm of the two minds: like most Mountain Goats evangelicals, I'm psyched that the songs are out there circulating, however, I have to echo what I said on Twitter:
"I feel like nothing captures 2021 more than the fact that there are viral Tik Tok Dances to "No Children""
posted by HunterFelt at 2:44 AM on October 27, 2021 [17 favorites]
"I feel like nothing captures 2021 more than the fact that there are viral Tik Tok Dances to "No Children""
posted by HunterFelt at 2:44 AM on October 27, 2021 [17 favorites]
It's a fantastic song. Not sure if the kids like it or if it's just that a 20 second clip of it sounds hilariously over-the-top in its misery.
It turns out the real curse of Gen-X irony is that later generations take it literally and just assume we were idiots...
posted by TheophileEscargot at 4:01 AM on October 27, 2021 [20 favorites]
It turns out the real curse of Gen-X irony is that later generations take it literally and just assume we were idiots...
posted by TheophileEscargot at 4:01 AM on October 27, 2021 [20 favorites]
... this is insane/ fascinating, and great - the variety of people doing this, going along with this? Tok toking this? Participating. I can't get away from the impact the lyrics have on me just as lyrics - I have certainly thought almost exactly that, if not said it at a certain point in my own life - and yet a good 3/4s of the participants seem thrilled to be doing this to this one particular song - which isn't wrong or anything it's just jarring: the first one (to me) seemed right on the money - pretty damn obscure - some guy in a puffy jacket in a walk-in freezer has a moment listening to "No Children" feels a sympathetic vibration build and gets it out by doing this TikTok ... which then... others ... copy/ pay tribute to? Fantastic - I have no idea what's going on, but it's fantastic. The cats are kind of great but I think my 'favorite' is the woman walking through some warehouse, expressionless, and then re-creates the pantomime behind ... a dryer of some kind? - Also the view through the cat-door to a TV set?
It ticks so many boxes for me - so many details describing so many different lives, different ways of living ones life - of feeling and expressing. In a way as open and democratic as Vine and Livejournal sometimes were: as facebook and instagram absolutely are not. (It reminds me also of the TikTok thing were some guy is "introducing" his girlfriend and an extended narrative gets spun out from there - there's a 'naive' vitality there that's pretty great.)
posted by From Bklyn at 4:59 AM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
It ticks so many boxes for me - so many details describing so many different lives, different ways of living ones life - of feeling and expressing. In a way as open and democratic as Vine and Livejournal sometimes were: as facebook and instagram absolutely are not. (It reminds me also of the TikTok thing were some guy is "introducing" his girlfriend and an extended narrative gets spun out from there - there's a 'naive' vitality there that's pretty great.)
posted by From Bklyn at 4:59 AM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
Ah I guess this is my cue to begin my yearly binge of Mountain Goats albums. I don’t really get TikTok much (aside from the videos that echo old Vines etc) but this is pretty fantastic! My wife uses it, I’ll have to tell her to let me know if she comes across any of these.
posted by bxvr at 5:55 AM on October 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by bxvr at 5:55 AM on October 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
This one is my favorite variation. Look at that grumpy kitty face!
posted by JDHarper at 6:03 AM on October 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by JDHarper at 6:03 AM on October 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
What if your favorite thing is viruses?
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:27 AM on October 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:27 AM on October 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
It turns out the real curse of Gen-X irony is that later generations take it literally and just assume we were idiots...
To be fair, after many years of MG fandom, I still feel like I don't perfectly grasp JD's relationship with irony.
I was initially surprised by this phenomenon, because "This Year" is a fairly straightforward song and easy to adopt as a teen anthem, whereas "No Children" is a song about damaged people going through some seriously dark but adult experiences, but perhaps the superficial wholesomeness of the instrumentation carries the young people along. I think JD's attitude is (unsurprisingly) very sensible: happy that younger people are giving the song a moment, but not invested in securing adoration from Today's Young People.
posted by praemunire at 6:59 AM on October 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
To be fair, after many years of MG fandom, I still feel like I don't perfectly grasp JD's relationship with irony.
I was initially surprised by this phenomenon, because "This Year" is a fairly straightforward song and easy to adopt as a teen anthem, whereas "No Children" is a song about damaged people going through some seriously dark but adult experiences, but perhaps the superficial wholesomeness of the instrumentation carries the young people along. I think JD's attitude is (unsurprisingly) very sensible: happy that younger people are giving the song a moment, but not invested in securing adoration from Today's Young People.
posted by praemunire at 6:59 AM on October 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
I’m old enough to remember when it was on NPR, when it was a hipster wedding song, and when it was used to title tragic gifs on tumblr. Every generation gets the “No Children” they deserve.
posted by betweenthebars at 7:05 AM on October 27, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by betweenthebars at 7:05 AM on October 27, 2021 [19 favorites]
"This Year" is a fairly straightforward song and easy to adopt as a teen anthem, whereas "No Children" is a song about damaged people going through some seriously dark but adult experiences
I think honestly the pandemic was a seriously damaging and dark experience that people had whether or not they were adults? So it's not surprising to me that teens would relate to the song on its own terms and don't need to be tricked by its superficial anthem-ness.
I mean, if you're a teen who's been stuck with a parent, for example, with whom you are NOT getting along, 24/7 for 2 years, with the grim specter of death outside your door every day...would the line "I am drowning, there is no sign of land/ you are coming down with me/ hand in unlovable hand/ and I hope you die" really feel that unrelatable?
If anything I would argue that the superficial part of the song is how it's "about" divorce. It's about self-loathing, mutually assured destruction, the tension of public (our friends) and private (we're pretty sure they're all wrong) and none of this is exclusive to adults getting divorced.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:05 AM on October 27, 2021 [40 favorites]
I think honestly the pandemic was a seriously damaging and dark experience that people had whether or not they were adults? So it's not surprising to me that teens would relate to the song on its own terms and don't need to be tricked by its superficial anthem-ness.
I mean, if you're a teen who's been stuck with a parent, for example, with whom you are NOT getting along, 24/7 for 2 years, with the grim specter of death outside your door every day...would the line "I am drowning, there is no sign of land/ you are coming down with me/ hand in unlovable hand/ and I hope you die" really feel that unrelatable?
If anything I would argue that the superficial part of the song is how it's "about" divorce. It's about self-loathing, mutually assured destruction, the tension of public (our friends) and private (we're pretty sure they're all wrong) and none of this is exclusive to adults getting divorced.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:05 AM on October 27, 2021 [40 favorites]
If anything I would argue that the superficial part of the song is how it's "about" divorce. It's about self-loathing, mutually assured destruction, the tension of public (our friends) and private (we're pretty sure they're all wrong) and none of this is exclusive to adults getting divorced.
Yeah, that's my take on it as well. No Children is about these darker aspects of all human relationships, not just romantic ones, not just marriages on their way to divorce. Just about everyone goes through a No Children phase at some point in their life in a relationship (romantic or not) with someone they have intense love for and intense antipathy for.
Also, I think No Children and the next song from the record, See America Right, should really be seen as a single two-parter song.
posted by tclark at 7:23 AM on October 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
Yeah, that's my take on it as well. No Children is about these darker aspects of all human relationships, not just romantic ones, not just marriages on their way to divorce. Just about everyone goes through a No Children phase at some point in their life in a relationship (romantic or not) with someone they have intense love for and intense antipathy for.
Also, I think No Children and the next song from the record, See America Right, should really be seen as a single two-parter song.
posted by tclark at 7:23 AM on October 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
I am Downy. There is no sign of lint. Your clothing down with me. Part of in my huggable plan. And I hold their dye.
posted by interogative mood at 7:48 AM on October 27, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 7:48 AM on October 27, 2021 [18 favorites]
Now I'm just listening to the Mountain Goats and thinking about how many of their songs are probably for people who dealt with the dark realities of the pandemic now.
Best Ever Death Metal Band out of Denton could use some love, and it certainly vibes with how the working class feels right now: "when you punish someone for dreaming their dream / don't expect them to thank or forgive you."
posted by deadaluspark at 7:51 AM on October 27, 2021 [18 favorites]
Best Ever Death Metal Band out of Denton could use some love, and it certainly vibes with how the working class feels right now: "when you punish someone for dreaming their dream / don't expect them to thank or forgive you."
posted by deadaluspark at 7:51 AM on October 27, 2021 [18 favorites]
Just wait til they listen to Oceanographer's Choice
[cat in skeleton custom] RUNS THRU HIM WITH A BROADSWORD
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 7:52 AM on October 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
[cat in skeleton custom] RUNS THRU HIM WITH A BROADSWORD
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 7:52 AM on October 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
A good friend of mine has seen every Mountain Goats show in the Chicago area for probably 15 years. He tells me that audience members at these shows have been getting younger, on average, and considerably more queer, the last several years. So some of this may be an ephemeral TikTok thing, but a fair bit of seems to be a new wave of younger fans.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:53 AM on October 27, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:53 AM on October 27, 2021 [7 favorites]
This song cuts deep. I've been playing this song at open mics around the Boston area for years. It does well in Irish pubs. I remember playing it for a much younger roommate, who had moved in with us to keep in the closet from his very Catholic, military family. He had only ever seen it on Moral Oral and was blown away that it wasn't just a comedy song. It's so over the top. I was married soon after, and divorced soon after that.
Tallahassee is one of my favorite records, up there with Cursive's Domestica. Both concept albums about failing, alcoholic marriages. I don't know why I'm like this, but that's my taste. And I think I've always needed records that energetically and beautifully express the highs and lows of relationship turmoil and even not-quite-physical abuse. Nice to see the kids are still not quite all right.
PS, I'd suggest Game Shows Touch Our Lives
posted by es_de_bah at 7:54 AM on October 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
Tallahassee is one of my favorite records, up there with Cursive's Domestica. Both concept albums about failing, alcoholic marriages. I don't know why I'm like this, but that's my taste. And I think I've always needed records that energetically and beautifully express the highs and lows of relationship turmoil and even not-quite-physical abuse. Nice to see the kids are still not quite all right.
PS, I'd suggest Game Shows Touch Our Lives
posted by es_de_bah at 7:54 AM on October 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
PS, my friend who loves The Mountain Goats is a professional artist/illustrator who also did this series of awesome ink drawings of tMG related stuff.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:58 AM on October 27, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:58 AM on October 27, 2021 [7 favorites]
I wouldn't say I am particularly a Mountain Goats fan, but Deuteronomy 2:10 always brings me to to tears.
posted by tavella at 8:05 AM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by tavella at 8:05 AM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
The real dangerous trend will be when the kids start doing a choreographed dance routine to Foreign Object
(stolen from a Tweet I can't find any more, sorry twitter person)
posted by JDHarper at 8:13 AM on October 27, 2021 [9 favorites]
(stolen from a Tweet I can't find any more, sorry twitter person)
posted by JDHarper at 8:13 AM on October 27, 2021 [9 favorites]
Well, that's not exactly 'Love, Love, Love, ' is it?
posted by mojohand at 8:16 AM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by mojohand at 8:16 AM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
oh heck, Phineas X Jones! We used to run in publishing/radio/illustration circles together. I am glad to see that dude's okay and still going to tMG shows.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:40 AM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:40 AM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
I think JD's attitude is (unsurprisingly) very sensible: happy that younger people are giving the song a moment, but not invested in securing adoration from Today's Young People.
As DirtyOldTown said, he doesn’t need to invest in it, he gets it anyway because his number one theme is “young people going through hard times.” What makes this a little stranger is that it’s TikTok, which seems like an alien world even to those of use merely twenty years younger than John Darnielle.
Doesn’t particularly surprise me that it’s this song, though.
posted by atoxyl at 8:47 AM on October 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
As DirtyOldTown said, he doesn’t need to invest in it, he gets it anyway because his number one theme is “young people going through hard times.” What makes this a little stranger is that it’s TikTok, which seems like an alien world even to those of use merely twenty years younger than John Darnielle.
Doesn’t particularly surprise me that it’s this song, though.
posted by atoxyl at 8:47 AM on October 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
Darnielle was in his mid-30s when he signed to 4AD and made this album, after ten years of being a cult lo-fi musician with a day job as a CNA so, you know, the Mountain Goats have had many careers.
posted by atoxyl at 9:31 AM on October 27, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 9:31 AM on October 27, 2021 [5 favorites]
I just like that he isn’t joining TikTok. That’s the right choice.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:50 AM on October 27, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 9:50 AM on October 27, 2021 [6 favorites]
I made it through that era when people thought bluegrass covers of AC/DC were just the greatest thing ever; I can handle this
posted by thelonius at 9:53 AM on October 27, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 9:53 AM on October 27, 2021 [6 favorites]
If anything I would argue that the superficial part of the song is how it's "about" divorce. It's about self-loathing, mutually assured destruction, the tension of public (our friends) and private (we're pretty sure they're all wrong) and none of this is exclusive to adults getting divorced.
And the superficially cheery stumbling through decisions that are clearly bad, in a situation where nothing is a "right" choice, as the world burns down and you both know everything is fucked up and won't get better, but you gotta move forward anyway, so... might as well put a faux cheery smile as you march down the road to hell, I guess!
I am absolutely in no way surprised the kids today would fucking love this song. I can say, I love it, and I have never been divorced; I loved it immediately when I found it the first time on Community ten years ago. (Or maybe a Community fanvid.)
posted by sciatrix at 9:58 AM on October 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
And the superficially cheery stumbling through decisions that are clearly bad, in a situation where nothing is a "right" choice, as the world burns down and you both know everything is fucked up and won't get better, but you gotta move forward anyway, so... might as well put a faux cheery smile as you march down the road to hell, I guess!
I am absolutely in no way surprised the kids today would fucking love this song. I can say, I love it, and I have never been divorced; I loved it immediately when I found it the first time on Community ten years ago. (Or maybe a Community fanvid.)
posted by sciatrix at 9:58 AM on October 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
I saw tMG in 2006-ish and he introduced this song with a speech I will approximate:
"This is a song you're gonna need at some time in your life. If you've already needed it, I'm sorry. If you haven't needed it yet, believe me, you're gonna."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:08 AM on October 27, 2021 [9 favorites]
"This is a song you're gonna need at some time in your life. If you've already needed it, I'm sorry. If you haven't needed it yet, believe me, you're gonna."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:08 AM on October 27, 2021 [9 favorites]
On a macro level, it does bum me out a little that every single piece of culture is susceptible to being ground into a fine paste as grist for the meme mill. On a micro level, I think this particular TikTok fad is introducing folks to music they might not have heard otherwise and is making some fans. Probably best to emulate John Darnielle's generous response to it.
I don't have a leg to stand on here, anyhow, since I was personally introduced to this song by repeated references to the lyrics on Tumblr.
(Also, what are the odds of three friends of Phineas congregating in one MetaFilter post?!? Chicago is the smallest town [but there is no Chicago cabal]).
posted by merriment at 10:19 AM on October 27, 2021
I don't have a leg to stand on here, anyhow, since I was personally introduced to this song by repeated references to the lyrics on Tumblr.
(Also, what are the odds of three friends of Phineas congregating in one MetaFilter post?!? Chicago is the smallest town [but there is no Chicago cabal]).
posted by merriment at 10:19 AM on October 27, 2021
what are the odds of three friends of Phineas congregating in one MetaFilter post?!? Chicago is the smallest town
The irony being that Phineas is like Eeyore in human form and would never accept that he has friends all over.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:37 AM on October 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
The irony being that Phineas is like Eeyore in human form and would never accept that he has friends all over.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:37 AM on October 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
The irony being that Phineas is like Eeyore in human form and would never accept that he has friends all over.
LOL the truth of this.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:38 AM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
LOL the truth of this.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:38 AM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
Somehow this makes much sense: "Darnielle was in his mid-30s when he signed to 4AD and made this album, after ten years of being a cult lo-fi musician with a day job as a CNA"
posted by firstdaffodils at 10:41 AM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by firstdaffodils at 10:41 AM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
In conclusion, John Darnielle is a land of contrasts. If you need an upbeat No Children chaser about happy, functional relationships, try Weekend In Western Illinois, Song for an Old Friend, or Going to Utrecht1.
1 Okay technically the couple depicted in the "Going to..." series is not particularly happy or functional but I guess they have their moments.
posted by dephlogisticated at 10:47 AM on October 27, 2021
1 Okay technically the couple depicted in the "Going to..." series is not particularly happy or functional but I guess they have their moments.
posted by dephlogisticated at 10:47 AM on October 27, 2021
For what it's worth, there are hundreds of great Mountain Goats live shows on archive.org -- I was just listening to this show from February, but they go back to the 90s. Lots of great banter between songs, too.
posted by silentbicycle at 11:12 AM on October 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by silentbicycle at 11:12 AM on October 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
Somehow this makes much sense: "Darnielle was in his mid-30s when he signed to 4AD and made this album, after ten years of being a cult lo-fi musician with a day job as a CNA"
Lo-fi music brought some interesting people out of obscurity. Robert Pollard was a 36 year-old fourth grade teacher when Propeller became an unexpected hit and Guided by Voices took off.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:42 AM on October 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
Lo-fi music brought some interesting people out of obscurity. Robert Pollard was a 36 year-old fourth grade teacher when Propeller became an unexpected hit and Guided by Voices took off.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:42 AM on October 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
The kids are making hand dances for the mountain goats? What goes around comes around, I guess. [In which John covers 'the sign' by Ace of Bass, with hand dancing.]
posted by kaibutsu at 12:04 PM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by kaibutsu at 12:04 PM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
TikTok? Pfeh! I discovered this song and the Mountain Goats from a Metafilter post 15-ish years ago linking to a video of a comedian's ukulele cover by someone who didn't realize it was a cover.
posted by suetanvil at 1:52 PM on October 27, 2021
posted by suetanvil at 1:52 PM on October 27, 2021
One comment on twitter I quite liked about the whole thing, specifically the song, was along the lines of a reaction to saying the song was about a couple going through a divorce, that in all honesty, divorce between this couple is the most positive, but by no means only, possible outcome.
I mean, “if I found the strength to walk out” doesn’t exactly sound like a sealed deal. I can just see this going on forever, and the couple drinking themselves to death is probably the next rung down on positive possible outcomes.
Basically, none more bleak, is what I’m saying.
posted by Ghidorah at 1:55 PM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
I mean, “if I found the strength to walk out” doesn’t exactly sound like a sealed deal. I can just see this going on forever, and the couple drinking themselves to death is probably the next rung down on positive possible outcomes.
Basically, none more bleak, is what I’m saying.
posted by Ghidorah at 1:55 PM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
Man I listened to this song at top volume as I sped away from the house I shared with my abuser for the last time. Hearing the worst/best part of it it over and over on TokTok now a decade later is quite a trip.
posted by twelve cent archie at 2:19 PM on October 27, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by twelve cent archie at 2:19 PM on October 27, 2021 [14 favorites]
No Children is about these darker aspects of all human relationships, not just romantic ones, not just marriages on their way to divorce.
Well, yeah, I always thought of it as "our song" for me and the first Biglaw firm I worked at. But...most kids don't have friends in common with their parents even in the pandemic, nor are they acting together to drive all those friends away. The song really assumes the semi-permanent, even if profoundly wrongheaded, social commitments of adult life. Indeed, I'd say it makes very little sense when it's read as about someone you're stuck with involuntarily, like a teen's parent. It's about making your bed with someone, lying in it, and then setting it on fire with cigarette ash.
he gets it anyway because his number one theme is “young people going through hard times.”
Not in a while, really, although the early songs with enduring popularity of course are. Probably not since Get Lonely (2006!!!!). Which makes sense, since he is now a couple of decades away from being that person.
posted by praemunire at 3:46 PM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
Well, yeah, I always thought of it as "our song" for me and the first Biglaw firm I worked at. But...most kids don't have friends in common with their parents even in the pandemic, nor are they acting together to drive all those friends away. The song really assumes the semi-permanent, even if profoundly wrongheaded, social commitments of adult life. Indeed, I'd say it makes very little sense when it's read as about someone you're stuck with involuntarily, like a teen's parent. It's about making your bed with someone, lying in it, and then setting it on fire with cigarette ash.
he gets it anyway because his number one theme is “young people going through hard times.”
Not in a while, really, although the early songs with enduring popularity of course are. Probably not since Get Lonely (2006!!!!). Which makes sense, since he is now a couple of decades away from being that person.
posted by praemunire at 3:46 PM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
he gets it anyway because his number one theme is “young people going through hard times.”
Not in a while, really, although the early songs with enduring popularity of course are.
I mean, he has an entire album called Transcendental Youth, and beyond that, a song he only does live called "You Were Cool."
I first saw tMG play the Echo Lounge in Atlanta in 2002. A bandmate had gotten a copy of All Hail West Texas and my friends and I all became huge fans, so we went to see him play. There were maybe thirty people there and I distinctly remember John coming out on stage alone, sitting on a stool, checking his guitar with a couple strums, then blinking into the stage lights with "Hi, we're the Mountain Goats." I thought that was cool. Afterward he sold merch from the stage and that is how we got ahold of the then brand new Tallahassee.
The drive home is burned in my memory—it's 2 AM, there's three or four of us in my car, we've got the CD on and I'm cresting the hill on 212 heading into Monticello and that is when track 7 kicks in and after the first chorus we all gape at each other. I hope you die / I hope we both die. It was the greatest thing we'd ever heard. Why didn't he play THIS one?
I went from a fan to an obsessed fan that morning. Tracking the progress of each subsequent album, front and center every time he came through town. I remember the early audiences being kind of bro-y. Dudes in ballcaps who shouted for him to play "The Monkey Song." I think The Sunset Tree started to shift that. And the fact that his music was spreading. I remember being super happy for him when I heard "Cotton" in an episode of Weeds. Good for him.
My partner and I went to see him on a between-record tour, I'm not sure which ones. Maybe All Eternals Deck had come out? But we both noticed a shift in the audience. Those dudes in ballcaps were gone. The audience was way younger. He played "You Were Cool" and we looked at each other like "this is a little on the nose, yeah?" But the new kids were rapt. No more good-natured heckling and shouting out for him to do "Alpha Incipiens!" A lot more earnest shouting along. I didn't hate it, it was just something I noticed. "Good for him," I thought, "his audience isn't aging out of slumming it at the hip venue, he'll probably be able to stick around for longer." Glad I've been right.
posted by Maaik at 4:12 PM on October 27, 2021 [18 favorites]
Not in a while, really, although the early songs with enduring popularity of course are.
I mean, he has an entire album called Transcendental Youth, and beyond that, a song he only does live called "You Were Cool."
I first saw tMG play the Echo Lounge in Atlanta in 2002. A bandmate had gotten a copy of All Hail West Texas and my friends and I all became huge fans, so we went to see him play. There were maybe thirty people there and I distinctly remember John coming out on stage alone, sitting on a stool, checking his guitar with a couple strums, then blinking into the stage lights with "Hi, we're the Mountain Goats." I thought that was cool. Afterward he sold merch from the stage and that is how we got ahold of the then brand new Tallahassee.
The drive home is burned in my memory—it's 2 AM, there's three or four of us in my car, we've got the CD on and I'm cresting the hill on 212 heading into Monticello and that is when track 7 kicks in and after the first chorus we all gape at each other. I hope you die / I hope we both die. It was the greatest thing we'd ever heard. Why didn't he play THIS one?
I went from a fan to an obsessed fan that morning. Tracking the progress of each subsequent album, front and center every time he came through town. I remember the early audiences being kind of bro-y. Dudes in ballcaps who shouted for him to play "The Monkey Song." I think The Sunset Tree started to shift that. And the fact that his music was spreading. I remember being super happy for him when I heard "Cotton" in an episode of Weeds. Good for him.
My partner and I went to see him on a between-record tour, I'm not sure which ones. Maybe All Eternals Deck had come out? But we both noticed a shift in the audience. Those dudes in ballcaps were gone. The audience was way younger. He played "You Were Cool" and we looked at each other like "this is a little on the nose, yeah?" But the new kids were rapt. No more good-natured heckling and shouting out for him to do "Alpha Incipiens!" A lot more earnest shouting along. I didn't hate it, it was just something I noticed. "Good for him," I thought, "his audience isn't aging out of slumming it at the hip venue, he'll probably be able to stick around for longer." Glad I've been right.
posted by Maaik at 4:12 PM on October 27, 2021 [18 favorites]
We all know that the best way to listen to No Children is as the encore to a live show while you're singing along at the top of your lungs with a roomful of other people. But I'm not going to get bugged that people like something I like in the wrong way...
...but I also just learned that there's a show in NYC, tonight, that I'm not at, and that bums me out.
posted by goingonit at 5:09 PM on October 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
...but I also just learned that there's a show in NYC, tonight, that I'm not at, and that bums me out.
posted by goingonit at 5:09 PM on October 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
I mean, if you're a teen who's been stuck with a parent, for example, with whom you are NOT getting along, 24/7 for 2 years, with the grim specter of death outside your door every day...would the line "I am drowning, there is no sign of land/ you are coming down with me/ hand in unlovable hand/ and I hope you die" really feel that unrelatable?
Or if you know, you're like the unwilling spectator to the screaming matches, the late night lockouts, and petty squabbles over child support.
posted by pwnguin at 6:20 PM on October 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
Or if you know, you're like the unwilling spectator to the screaming matches, the late night lockouts, and petty squabbles over child support.
posted by pwnguin at 6:20 PM on October 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
The Great Algorithm has not seen fit to serve me any of these things and I only found out about it a few days ago, but I'm loving this thread. This whole thing is pretty weird, though I guess not as weird than that time TikTok got everyone extremely into sea shanties for like five minutes. Last week was the first local Mountain Goats show I wasn't at in a long time, I hope someday I'll be at a show singing next to TikTok kids.
posted by jameaterblues at 6:49 PM on October 27, 2021
posted by jameaterblues at 6:49 PM on October 27, 2021
Not in a while, really, although the early songs with enduring popularity of course are. Probably not since Get Lonely (2006!!!!). Which makes sense, since he is now a couple of decades away from being that person.
I’d say it’s still a major theme, just more often addressed in retrospect (and only sometimes autobiographical but it was a theme before it was explicitly autobiographical). I’d also namecheck Transcendental Youth, which I think is probably still the best album they’ve done since the 00s. And two of the three books Darnielle has written.
(The last few albums definitely feel more like veteran musicians just enjoying the craft of making music, but even Goths has a song or two obliquely about being a druggie kid in Portland in the 80s.)
posted by atoxyl at 6:52 PM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
I’d say it’s still a major theme, just more often addressed in retrospect (and only sometimes autobiographical but it was a theme before it was explicitly autobiographical). I’d also namecheck Transcendental Youth, which I think is probably still the best album they’ve done since the 00s. And two of the three books Darnielle has written.
(The last few albums definitely feel more like veteran musicians just enjoying the craft of making music, but even Goths has a song or two obliquely about being a druggie kid in Portland in the 80s.)
posted by atoxyl at 6:52 PM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
Please keep posting those fave MG links.. I support the youth and their ticky tocky, but we're a Gen X (and older) dominated nerd site so feed us the old people links!
posted by latkes at 9:56 PM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by latkes at 9:56 PM on October 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
Good lord, I’m 38 and the Mountain Goats are one of the top “I was obsessed with them as a teen” bands I can think of among my peers. Everything about JD’s music is calibrated to appeal to sensitive youngs, it’s so silly to think of it as strictly grownup music.
posted by cakelite at 10:10 PM on October 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by cakelite at 10:10 PM on October 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
Yeah, I came to MG late in life somehow - if I'd known their work in MY period where i needed this song, I would have had it on nonstop for about two years - but I would have LOVED them as a teen, I wouldn't have needed to see it through the lense of a parental divorce to be able to enjoy it, people aren't that literal and teens love dramatic shit?
posted by ominous_paws at 11:53 PM on October 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by ominous_paws at 11:53 PM on October 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
Please keep posting those fave MG links
You got it, friend!
Most other musicians I like best when they're sticking squarely to their lane, but Darnielle is one of the increasingly rare guys who I enjoy just as much when they're not playing music. He's such an omnivore and his knowledge and appreciation for music of all types (particularly death metal) is a joy to behold. To that end, I really love this piece, the origins of which are murky to me—clearly this extended essay on the virtues of Spandau Ballet was broadcast somewhere (is that Swedish?), but why? I have no explanation and at this point I feel that my life is better without one.
A bit more recently, Vice had him sit down and give his opinions on contemporary music and I'm imagining that the producer of the segment either A) thought it would be a funny gotcha to get an old dad to listen to hip hop, or B) knew exactly what they were doing and wanted John to wax philosophical about Panic at the Disco, as he naturally would.
This next one is unfortunately a Spotify link so be aware. John sat down with my favorite Carly Rae Jepsen collaborator Jack Antonoff on an episode of the Duet podcast and they took turns discussing songs they associate with painful times in their lives and I really appreciated what both of them brought to the table. Very thoughtful discussion.
My favorite Mountain Goats show I attended was in Atlanta right between two significant events: Jandek playing their first ever live show and the Mountain Goats heading to Prairie Sun Studios to track what would become The Sunset Tree. They were still touring as a guitar and bass duo with Peter Peter Hughes, and they played a couple of new songs that would wind up on that album. John Vanderslice opened, and it felt pretty momentous when the full band joined the Goats for two encores which included one of Vanderslice's songs from his old MK ULTRA days and a great (GREAT) rendition of a Furniture Huschle song. They sounded amazing as a full band. Shades of things to come.
posted by Maaik at 5:07 AM on October 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
You got it, friend!
Most other musicians I like best when they're sticking squarely to their lane, but Darnielle is one of the increasingly rare guys who I enjoy just as much when they're not playing music. He's such an omnivore and his knowledge and appreciation for music of all types (particularly death metal) is a joy to behold. To that end, I really love this piece, the origins of which are murky to me—clearly this extended essay on the virtues of Spandau Ballet was broadcast somewhere (is that Swedish?), but why? I have no explanation and at this point I feel that my life is better without one.
A bit more recently, Vice had him sit down and give his opinions on contemporary music and I'm imagining that the producer of the segment either A) thought it would be a funny gotcha to get an old dad to listen to hip hop, or B) knew exactly what they were doing and wanted John to wax philosophical about Panic at the Disco, as he naturally would.
This next one is unfortunately a Spotify link so be aware. John sat down with my favorite Carly Rae Jepsen collaborator Jack Antonoff on an episode of the Duet podcast and they took turns discussing songs they associate with painful times in their lives and I really appreciated what both of them brought to the table. Very thoughtful discussion.
My favorite Mountain Goats show I attended was in Atlanta right between two significant events: Jandek playing their first ever live show and the Mountain Goats heading to Prairie Sun Studios to track what would become The Sunset Tree. They were still touring as a guitar and bass duo with Peter Peter Hughes, and they played a couple of new songs that would wind up on that album. John Vanderslice opened, and it felt pretty momentous when the full band joined the Goats for two encores which included one of Vanderslice's songs from his old MK ULTRA days and a great (GREAT) rendition of a Furniture Huschle song. They sounded amazing as a full band. Shades of things to come.
posted by Maaik at 5:07 AM on October 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
The drive home is burned in my memory—it's 2 AM, there's three or four of us in my car, we've got the CD on and I'm cresting the hill on 212 heading into Monticello and that is when track 7 kicks in and after the first chorus we all gape at each other. I hope you die / I hope we both die. It was the greatest thing we'd ever heard. Why didn't he play THIS one?
My mom grew up in Monticello. I can totally picture this scene.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:33 AM on October 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
My mom grew up in Monticello. I can totally picture this scene.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:33 AM on October 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
But...most kids don't have friends in common with their parents even in the pandemic, nor are they acting together to drive all those friends away. The song really assumes the semi-permanent, even if profoundly wrongheaded, social commitments of adult life. Indeed, I'd say it makes very little sense when it's read as about someone you're stuck with involuntarily, like a teen's parent. It's about making your bed with someone, lying in it, and then setting it on fire with cigarette ash.
I'm reminded of a guy who worked on a video game about a giant unstoppable cylinder that crushes everything in its path. He was upset at reviewers saying "It's clearly a symbol of this." or "It obviously evokes that." And he was all, It's explicitly not about "this"! The story is very clear that it's not about "that"! But, dude, that is a potent symbol and no amount of words are gonna keep people from thinking of whatever they're most afraid of.
If a song has even one line that really resonates, it doesn't matter if the rest of the song matches your life or not. You're gonna crank that sucker up and do a crazy dance.
posted by straight at 11:31 AM on October 28, 2021 [6 favorites]
I'm reminded of a guy who worked on a video game about a giant unstoppable cylinder that crushes everything in its path. He was upset at reviewers saying "It's clearly a symbol of this." or "It obviously evokes that." And he was all, It's explicitly not about "this"! The story is very clear that it's not about "that"! But, dude, that is a potent symbol and no amount of words are gonna keep people from thinking of whatever they're most afraid of.
If a song has even one line that really resonates, it doesn't matter if the rest of the song matches your life or not. You're gonna crank that sucker up and do a crazy dance.
posted by straight at 11:31 AM on October 28, 2021 [6 favorites]
a video game about a giant unstoppable cylinder that crushes everything in its path
I thought you were just making shit up until I googled and found this trailer.
posted by pwnguin at 3:13 PM on October 28, 2021
I thought you were just making shit up until I googled and found this trailer.
posted by pwnguin at 3:13 PM on October 28, 2021
I've been a big fan since Sweden and Nothing for Juice (plus some of the earlier singles). All Hail West Texas was about the end for me, though I still listen to new stuff. I love, love, love the Protein Source, Bitter Melon Farm, and Ghana trilogy. That was the apex for me. I have way too much to say about The Mountain Goats.
All I will add is that I never really liked "No Children" and am still surprised by its popularity. (Once it got popular the first time, I shouldn't be surprised it got popular again. But I am!)
This Year is a much better breakup song, imo.
And the best, best, best Mountain Goats ever is My Favorite Things live. (Or maybe "The Sign")
posted by mrgrimm at 3:32 PM on October 28, 2021
All I will add is that I never really liked "No Children" and am still surprised by its popularity. (Once it got popular the first time, I shouldn't be surprised it got popular again. But I am!)
This Year is a much better breakup song, imo.
And the best, best, best Mountain Goats ever is My Favorite Things live. (Or maybe "The Sign")
posted by mrgrimm at 3:32 PM on October 28, 2021
I mean, I'd argue that No Children is fundamentally not a breakup song.
posted by augustimagination at 7:13 PM on October 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by augustimagination at 7:13 PM on October 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
I am incredulous that one could hear a song like No Children and then say they fail to understand what it is that people enjoy about it or why a lot of people like it at once
posted by Maaik at 8:29 PM on October 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Maaik at 8:29 PM on October 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
Just to add to the love, I will submit Young Caesar 2000 as perhaps the best song about tweenage angst and unearned privilege.
When work is annoying, I often find myself humming under my breath: "As sure as flowers grow along the western wall..."
posted by kaibutsu at 10:27 PM on October 28, 2021
When work is annoying, I often find myself humming under my breath: "As sure as flowers grow along the western wall..."
posted by kaibutsu at 10:27 PM on October 28, 2021
I am incredulous that one could hear a song like No Children and then say they fail to understand what it is that people enjoy about it or why a lot of people like it at once
In the year of our lord 2021 no less!
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:06 AM on October 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
In the year of our lord 2021 no less!
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:06 AM on October 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
And for folks saying you can't understand "No Children" unless you're an adult going through a divorce, JD's songs are not autobiographical. He was, for example, never a death metal loving teenager in Denton, TX. And neither was I. But we can all still relate to that song, too.
posted by hydropsyche at 8:13 AM on October 29, 2021
posted by hydropsyche at 8:13 AM on October 29, 2021
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posted by Ghidorah at 1:49 AM on October 27, 2021 [29 favorites]