Live Shopping is the Next Big Thing. Here’s Why.
November 14, 2021 8:21 AM Subscribe
In China, live shopping is already a standard form of retail. Typical live shopping events last around three hours, while special events can go on around the clock. This is the future that awaits American retail. The live shopping format generated $60 billion in sales globally in 2019 – with China far in the lead. Yet only $1 billion of those transactions took place in the U.S. Now, the format is estimated to hit $25 billion in the U.S. alone by 2023. Social media platforms are all in – and so are major retailers. Walmart is hosting live shopping events on TikTok. Facebook’s Live Shopping Fridays now feature brands ranging from Sephora to Abercrombie & Fitch. Instagram has a dedicated “Live” hub inside its Shopping section and ran a 10-day live shopping event with partners such as Peloton and Aveda. And Amazon launched Amazon Live.
Humans have created some of the most amazing, life-changing technology in the last quarter century. It depresses me that we use it mostly to buy more shit.
posted by nushustu at 8:31 AM on November 14, 2021 [80 favorites]
posted by nushustu at 8:31 AM on November 14, 2021 [80 favorites]
This sure reads like an advertorial.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 8:33 AM on November 14, 2021 [72 favorites]
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 8:33 AM on November 14, 2021 [72 favorites]
I do not want to live on the same planet as the person who wrote this.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:34 AM on November 14, 2021 [56 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:34 AM on November 14, 2021 [56 favorites]
Quick skim-of-the-arcticle summary for folks like me who hadn't heard this term of art before:
This seems to be a 21st century update of HSN/QVC et al, where you watch hosts in a TV studio talk up the benefits of some product, and if they sell you on it, you can call em right up and place an order for it. The new twist is that these hosts are modern "influencers" who run their own streaming channels from their homes, instead of cable-TV network employees. Outside of that, it seems functionally identical to the old patterns.
posted by JmacDotOrg at 8:34 AM on November 14, 2021 [54 favorites]
This seems to be a 21st century update of HSN/QVC et al, where you watch hosts in a TV studio talk up the benefits of some product, and if they sell you on it, you can call em right up and place an order for it. The new twist is that these hosts are modern "influencers" who run their own streaming channels from their homes, instead of cable-TV network employees. Outside of that, it seems functionally identical to the old patterns.
posted by JmacDotOrg at 8:34 AM on November 14, 2021 [54 favorites]
Can I use this ‘live shopping’ thing to buy pitchforks? Torches? A sharpener for my guillotine?
posted by armoir from antproof case at 8:40 AM on November 14, 2021 [69 favorites]
posted by armoir from antproof case at 8:40 AM on November 14, 2021 [69 favorites]
Oh wow I think I just discovered my very own influencer possibility
posted by armoir from antproof case at 8:42 AM on November 14, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by armoir from antproof case at 8:42 AM on November 14, 2021 [12 favorites]
I don’t just want these people to get off my lawn - I want them to get off everyone else’s lawns, too.
posted by Ryvar at 8:48 AM on November 14, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by Ryvar at 8:48 AM on November 14, 2021 [20 favorites]
4. Live shopping creates FOMO and closes the sale.
The fact is, most brands don’t compete only on products. So even the most original innovations eventually get copied and adopted by competitors. From a differentiation aspect, then, live shopping events are indispensable. They’re an opportunity to build something completely different, and with that, drive up value.
Consider limited-edition releases, for example. Scarcity is something that the live shopping format does exceptionally well. Offering a limited run of, say, 100 sneakers and a limited time to buy them creates a real fear of missing out.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 8:49 AM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
The fact is, most brands don’t compete only on products. So even the most original innovations eventually get copied and adopted by competitors. From a differentiation aspect, then, live shopping events are indispensable. They’re an opportunity to build something completely different, and with that, drive up value.
Consider limited-edition releases, for example. Scarcity is something that the live shopping format does exceptionally well. Offering a limited run of, say, 100 sneakers and a limited time to buy them creates a real fear of missing out.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 8:49 AM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
At first, I thought this was about a service that Amazon briefly offered where you would be in one-on-one communication with a personal shopper in another city while they went into whatever physical store you wanted them to. I don't think it lasted long. It was expensive for the consumer, while probably not being that profitable for Amazon. I briefly considered doing one of these virtual shopping trips in Tokyo, but I decided that I didn't need more debt in my life.
posted by LindsayIrene at 8:52 AM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by LindsayIrene at 8:52 AM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
Oh hey it's a real life example of my comment from the other day about how life in capitalism exacerbates mental health problems!
As if my depression weren't bad enough this morning, this makes me absolutely want to die.
posted by deadaluspark at 8:57 AM on November 14, 2021 [30 favorites]
As if my depression weren't bad enough this morning, this makes me absolutely want to die.
posted by deadaluspark at 8:57 AM on November 14, 2021 [30 favorites]
Meanwhile, dumping grounds for fast fashion continue to grow in the Chilean desert.
posted by Brian B. at 9:01 AM on November 14, 2021 [40 favorites]
posted by Brian B. at 9:01 AM on November 14, 2021 [40 favorites]
I’ll take ‘Brian B bringing out the punchline like a boss’ for $400, Alex
posted by armoir from antproof case at 9:05 AM on November 14, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by armoir from antproof case at 9:05 AM on November 14, 2021 [10 favorites]
If Sweetwater does this with guitars and gear, I'll end up declaring bankruptcy.
posted by Ber at 9:05 AM on November 14, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by Ber at 9:05 AM on November 14, 2021 [12 favorites]
This sure reads like an advertorial.
What, you think the Chief Business Officer of a company that “partner[s] with premium brands to create innovative digital products and services that drive customer engagement and business value” has an agenda when he tells you that this digital service that drives customer engagement and business value “can rival an episode of Ted Lasso?”
posted by ejs at 9:06 AM on November 14, 2021 [22 favorites]
What, you think the Chief Business Officer of a company that “partner[s] with premium brands to create innovative digital products and services that drive customer engagement and business value” has an agenda when he tells you that this digital service that drives customer engagement and business value “can rival an episode of Ted Lasso?”
posted by ejs at 9:06 AM on November 14, 2021 [22 favorites]
i know have you ever considered buying an ultra-personalized, influencer recommended, limited edition of being launched into the sun
posted by lalochezia at 9:07 AM on November 14, 2021 [41 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 9:07 AM on November 14, 2021 [41 favorites]
A future designed by people who never look up from their screens.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:11 AM on November 14, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 9:11 AM on November 14, 2021 [9 favorites]
I have been sticking to the stupid one-liners because I woke up this morning well rested and super positive about the day ahead of me (even though it includes shopping in store, which usually I hate) because if instead of being a joker I stopped to think about the profound weight this whole live shopping thing carries, I think I would be squarely in the deadaluspark corner. I am going to LOVE shopping brick and mortar today.
but seriously. deadaluspark if you need someone to talk to, please feel free to memail me
posted by armoir from antproof case at 9:12 AM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
but seriously. deadaluspark if you need someone to talk to, please feel free to memail me
posted by armoir from antproof case at 9:12 AM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
I don’t just want these people to get off my lawn - I want them to get off everyone else’s lawns, too.
Motion activated yard sprinklers are a quiet plus of the 21st century.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 9:14 AM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
Motion activated yard sprinklers are a quiet plus of the 21st century.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 9:14 AM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
The Economist had a big article about this phenomenon back in January.
Amazon has been something similar for a few years now, particularly with events like Black Friday sales. Not quite the same - there's not the social media tie, the video production. But the idea of a communal event of limited sales is not entirely new. It hasn't worked very well so far, maybe because it's missing the virality.
The big difference with the Chinese version is the scale and effectiveness of the events. It's a major phenomenon. Hard to see if it will work in the US too. China's Internet is in many ways mobile-first, shopping through your phone is often the only way you buy things online there. Also phone systems have much better integrated mobile payment systems than we have in the US. Buying something on US TikTok seems awkward; buying something on Chinese Douyin apparently doesn't.
(Every time I see something like this I think back to a MIT Media Lab project back in the late 90s. The idea was to augment a TV show with ads. So you could watch Kim Kardashian do whatever she does and then click on the screen to buy the dress she is wearing. The idea made me ill at the time and still kind of does. But the spirit of that is undeniably powerful.)
posted by Nelson at 9:20 AM on November 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
Amazon has been something similar for a few years now, particularly with events like Black Friday sales. Not quite the same - there's not the social media tie, the video production. But the idea of a communal event of limited sales is not entirely new. It hasn't worked very well so far, maybe because it's missing the virality.
The big difference with the Chinese version is the scale and effectiveness of the events. It's a major phenomenon. Hard to see if it will work in the US too. China's Internet is in many ways mobile-first, shopping through your phone is often the only way you buy things online there. Also phone systems have much better integrated mobile payment systems than we have in the US. Buying something on US TikTok seems awkward; buying something on Chinese Douyin apparently doesn't.
(Every time I see something like this I think back to a MIT Media Lab project back in the late 90s. The idea was to augment a TV show with ads. So you could watch Kim Kardashian do whatever she does and then click on the screen to buy the dress she is wearing. The idea made me ill at the time and still kind of does. But the spirit of that is undeniably powerful.)
posted by Nelson at 9:20 AM on November 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
I know someone who's been doing this for years in connection with her online store for selling hand-crafted dinosaur hoodies. If I remember correctly, it got started as a way of showing a Facebook group composed of people who'd bought custom-made hoodies a pile of stuff she had ready to ship. And, sure, I guess it's weird to see major brands doing this, but on a small scale involving a genuinely kind and fun person, it seemed like a reasonable way to build a little business with a personal touch and a shared sense of fun.
posted by Wobbuffet at 9:27 AM on November 14, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by Wobbuffet at 9:27 AM on November 14, 2021 [14 favorites]
I read the article three times and I still have no idea what live shopping is or how it works differently from advertising for a sale at an online stores. Even the text under the heading "What is live shopping in practice?" tells me exactly nothing other than how fun and engaging it is. It reads more like advertising copy than an informational piece.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:29 AM on November 14, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:29 AM on November 14, 2021 [18 favorites]
Facebook's newsroom article on "Live Shopping Fridays" has screenshots that help visualize it. The events run by the person I know have looked basically the same as that since probably mid to late 2017.
posted by Wobbuffet at 9:42 AM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Wobbuffet at 9:42 AM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
Barf.
This feels like a "bread and circus" social control mixed with wealth concentration/ "entrepreneurship." The government might be into the former, but isn't the latter counter to the current policy/ slogan of "common prosperity?"
Or is the conspicuous consumption contributing to the perception of common prosperity (and throw the masses a billionaire or two every so often for the spectacle/ fear)?
posted by porpoise at 9:43 AM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
This feels like a "bread and circus" social control mixed with wealth concentration/ "entrepreneurship." The government might be into the former, but isn't the latter counter to the current policy/ slogan of "common prosperity?"
Or is the conspicuous consumption contributing to the perception of common prosperity (and throw the masses a billionaire or two every so often for the spectacle/ fear)?
posted by porpoise at 9:43 AM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
the hilarious thing is, a friend of mine thinks that i'd be perfect for it, but it's essentially an IG Live/Twitter Spaces/Clubhouse/Twitch channel, but the person/influencer yapping away (and it doesn't even have to be relentlessly selling you things) talking about things you can get, only the main difference is instead of the typical chat replies of, "omg that's so cute, i wish i have one," you can immediately click to buy whatever that is. that's basically it. It's basically an Amazon affiliate link + the storytime section of a recipe blog in a live video format. ETA: another analogy: it's a virtual tupperware party.
posted by cendawanita at 9:43 AM on November 14, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 9:43 AM on November 14, 2021 [18 favorites]
Consider limited-edition releases, for example. Scarcity is something that the live shopping format does exceptionally well. Offering a limited run of, say, 100 sneakers and a limited time to buy them creates a real fear of missing out.
As an added bonus, you could up the price on each additional pair, so the slower you are the more you pay. Or, even better, do an old biz-school demonstration of sunk cost -- each pair is subject to bidding, with the winning bidder getting the shoes. The second-highest bid, however, loses their money and gets nothing. This creates a race to the top that frequently beggars description -- I've known a prof who did this with a $100 bill, starting the bid at $1. His class ended up bidding above $2000 in a desperate frenzy to not lose money.
Everything is terrible, and sometimes I fear I am not terrible enough.
posted by aramaic at 9:44 AM on November 14, 2021 [28 favorites]
As an added bonus, you could up the price on each additional pair, so the slower you are the more you pay. Or, even better, do an old biz-school demonstration of sunk cost -- each pair is subject to bidding, with the winning bidder getting the shoes. The second-highest bid, however, loses their money and gets nothing. This creates a race to the top that frequently beggars description -- I've known a prof who did this with a $100 bill, starting the bid at $1. His class ended up bidding above $2000 in a desperate frenzy to not lose money.
Everything is terrible, and sometimes I fear I am not terrible enough.
posted by aramaic at 9:44 AM on November 14, 2021 [28 favorites]
So “live shopping” doesn’t mean physically going into a store and buying something? I’m too old for this shit.
posted by TedW at 9:47 AM on November 14, 2021 [49 favorites]
posted by TedW at 9:47 AM on November 14, 2021 [49 favorites]
Maximize the amount of profit that can be squeezed out of each individual. With each transaction, the capitalists take a cut. And if you're buying from home -- from an apartment you're renting, on a TV you bought on credit (probably online) -- and the seller is selling from their home studio -- with all the gear they've had to purchase on credit -- then that's even less overhead for them in the form of employees and retail outlets. And if it's marketed as entertainment, hell, they might even convince people to pay monthly subscription fee to get access -- effectively paying to advertise to ourselves.
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:47 AM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:47 AM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
I read the article three times and I still have no idea what live shopping is or how it works differently from advertising for a sale at an online stores.
Imagine some influencer on youtube, gushing about some random makeup or sweater, and how awesome it is in a live stream. "Buy it now!!!" and look just like that awesome person. Or maybe a gamer celeb with a collection of new-in-box graphics cards (the ones with all the shortages) - but now you're in a race to buy one of the handful available against other viewers of the live stream. And uh, don't look at the prices, or you might miss out on this opportunity!
Now imagine an icepick, and inserting it slowly into your temple and giving a good wiggle, and you're where I'm at right now. After COP 26... this. We're fucking doomed as a species, aren't we.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 9:53 AM on November 14, 2021 [14 favorites]
Imagine some influencer on youtube, gushing about some random makeup or sweater, and how awesome it is in a live stream. "Buy it now!!!" and look just like that awesome person. Or maybe a gamer celeb with a collection of new-in-box graphics cards (the ones with all the shortages) - but now you're in a race to buy one of the handful available against other viewers of the live stream. And uh, don't look at the prices, or you might miss out on this opportunity!
Now imagine an icepick, and inserting it slowly into your temple and giving a good wiggle, and you're where I'm at right now. After COP 26... this. We're fucking doomed as a species, aren't we.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 9:53 AM on November 14, 2021 [14 favorites]
Gross. No matter how clean the energy gets, as a human race we are going to need to get back to a place where buying as little as possible and reusing as long as possible is socially valued, and overconsumption is looked down upon. This is going on the wrong direction.
posted by freecellwizard at 9:56 AM on November 14, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by freecellwizard at 9:56 AM on November 14, 2021 [19 favorites]
"We're fucking doomed as a species, aren't we."
Insert "always has been" meme.
In a way, Nietzsche was right, we have to leave behind certain aspects of our humanity to grow beyond what we are now, at our own peril. (Obviously I'm not speaking to the same changes Nietzsche was, the fuckin loon) It's very likely already too late.
posted by deadaluspark at 9:57 AM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
Insert "always has been" meme.
In a way, Nietzsche was right, we have to leave behind certain aspects of our humanity to grow beyond what we are now, at our own peril. (Obviously I'm not speaking to the same changes Nietzsche was, the fuckin loon) It's very likely already too late.
posted by deadaluspark at 9:57 AM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
The critics here may want to consider their late-stage capitalist ennui a little bit. I suspect consumerism feels quite different to an average middle class Chinese person, the first of their generation with enough wealth and access to enjoy shopping for luxuries as a social experience.
I still hate advertising. And consumption is a problem for the environment; the last thing we need is the 1.4B people of China to go down the same disposable consumer path we have in the US and Europe. But you might get some more insight if you consider why this is such a phenomenon instead of just saying "those people are bad".
posted by Nelson at 10:02 AM on November 14, 2021 [9 favorites]
I still hate advertising. And consumption is a problem for the environment; the last thing we need is the 1.4B people of China to go down the same disposable consumer path we have in the US and Europe. But you might get some more insight if you consider why this is such a phenomenon instead of just saying "those people are bad".
posted by Nelson at 10:02 AM on November 14, 2021 [9 favorites]
As for what's happening in China and the people there, I have no comment, but as for the people who are planning to do it the United States, they suck.
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:04 AM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:04 AM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
That article about fashion waste in Chile gave me flashbacks to Dollar-a-Pound.
Re: the main article, I am so embarrassed for our species. I’m not an ascetic monk or anything, but there is just so much that revolves around consumerism that I just can’t get my head around it.
In college I had a friend who claimed that smoking pot wasn’t just hanging around stoned, but you had to be continuously smoking, that it was the act of packing the next bowl. I feel like we’re getting to the point that consumerism isn’t just having too much stuff, but literally always being engaged in the act of shopping to the exclusion of all other pursuits.
posted by snofoam at 10:05 AM on November 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
Re: the main article, I am so embarrassed for our species. I’m not an ascetic monk or anything, but there is just so much that revolves around consumerism that I just can’t get my head around it.
In college I had a friend who claimed that smoking pot wasn’t just hanging around stoned, but you had to be continuously smoking, that it was the act of packing the next bowl. I feel like we’re getting to the point that consumerism isn’t just having too much stuff, but literally always being engaged in the act of shopping to the exclusion of all other pursuits.
posted by snofoam at 10:05 AM on November 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
There must be a lot of examples of social shopping online. I don't have time to find it this morning. But I'd be grateful if someone here felt like doing the work and could find and post some Chinese examples. Here's a start; Alibaba explaining to Westerners how to do social marketing. But that's kinda meta, I'd love to just watch some actual examples. Ideally with English subtitles but that's not really necessary.
posted by Nelson at 10:06 AM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Nelson at 10:06 AM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
I’m bookmarking this article in case I accidentally ingest poison and need to force myself to vomit.
posted by snofoam at 10:09 AM on November 14, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 10:09 AM on November 14, 2021 [9 favorites]
There was another thread recently where this came up as well, but I forget which one. Anyway, a fair chunk of that fast fashion / so much clothing for sale ends up in landfills in Africa (eg. Ghana, in this article).
posted by eviemath at 10:10 AM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 10:10 AM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
Geez, the people posting fantasy horror short stories to the Metafilter front page are getting out of hand.
posted by clawsoon at 10:14 AM on November 14, 2021 [34 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 10:14 AM on November 14, 2021 [34 favorites]
I think this is QVC for younger people, but it's yet to be seen if the influencers can shake off the stigma to the point where this is normal. That being said, if you don't have to leave the house to get much of anything anymore and work dress codes are pretty common and not much fun, the demand for clothing just might decrease.
posted by Selena777 at 10:20 AM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Selena777 at 10:20 AM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
This seems perfect for MLM scams. People getting into the influencer game already know that their chances of success are slim, so they probably won't even notice when 99.9% of them lose money buying product in hope of selling it in livestreams.
posted by clawsoon at 10:21 AM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 10:21 AM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
“A new life awaits you in the Off-world colonies. The chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure.”
posted by clavdivs at 10:21 AM on November 14, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 10:21 AM on November 14, 2021 [15 favorites]
Quite a few MLMs already do this, clawsoon, which doesn't bode well for making it seem less sketchy.
posted by Selena777 at 10:25 AM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 10:25 AM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
Count me as another poster who, for a looooong minute, went "But isn't live shopping just shopping in person? It is, isn't it? ISN'T IT"
I get the gist of the service, I just don't understand the why. (Maybe I am too old.)
posted by Kitteh at 10:25 AM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
I get the gist of the service, I just don't understand the why. (Maybe I am too old.)
posted by Kitteh at 10:25 AM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
I read the headline and went, "...but I went live shopping this morning. Got in my car, drove to the wholesale club about 10 miles down the highway, and stocked up on some things so I don't have to go back there until after the first of the year."
Then I read the article and I still don't get it. I remember QVC but I didn't really get that either, even though I'm an older Gen Xer and was there when it started.
The "influencer economy" part was also kind of strange to me. In the group of people I generally spend time with, mostly my age but some a bit younger, "influencers" are mocked and made fun of. No one can believe that anyone a) can make money doing that and b) that anyone takes them seriously. But...are we the ones living in an alternate reality? Are "influencers" influential enough that people will watch a live stream of them and buy stuff?
I guess I shouldn't be too surprised. I remember when Instagram was a place to share photos with your friends and maybe connect with people who had similar interests. Now it's just SkyMall.
posted by ralan at 10:33 AM on November 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
Then I read the article and I still don't get it. I remember QVC but I didn't really get that either, even though I'm an older Gen Xer and was there when it started.
The "influencer economy" part was also kind of strange to me. In the group of people I generally spend time with, mostly my age but some a bit younger, "influencers" are mocked and made fun of. No one can believe that anyone a) can make money doing that and b) that anyone takes them seriously. But...are we the ones living in an alternate reality? Are "influencers" influential enough that people will watch a live stream of them and buy stuff?
I guess I shouldn't be too surprised. I remember when Instagram was a place to share photos with your friends and maybe connect with people who had similar interests. Now it's just SkyMall.
posted by ralan at 10:33 AM on November 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
Thanks, I hate it.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:36 AM on November 14, 2021 [16 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:36 AM on November 14, 2021 [16 favorites]
This concept is absolutely fantastic.
posted by glonous keming at 10:41 AM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by glonous keming at 10:41 AM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
I sell bees.
posted by os tuberoes at 10:41 AM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by os tuberoes at 10:41 AM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
Spare me from ever being brainwashed enough to follow some insta-celebre-nope and buy what they're hawking. If I sound condescending, so be it. It just seems like such a waste of human talent and energy. All frittered away, rather like Marie Antoinette inventing her three-foot hairstyle so all the jealous courtiers could rush to copy it. Give or take screens and the scale of the copying, that serves as a decent, if rough, analogy.
I just wonder at what point "shopping" becomes "hoarding".
posted by Armed Only With Hubris at 10:42 AM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
I just wonder at what point "shopping" becomes "hoarding".
posted by Armed Only With Hubris at 10:42 AM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: Think of it as a hyper-personalized QVC
posted by Ranucci at 11:17 AM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Ranucci at 11:17 AM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
This seems perfect for MLM scams.
The descriptions sound like what Luluroe people did, working their way through products on live video.
posted by doctornemo at 11:18 AM on November 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
The descriptions sound like what Luluroe people did, working their way through products on live video.
posted by doctornemo at 11:18 AM on November 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
I don't think we hate this because "we're too old," but because most of us are old enough that we're smart (or at least experienced) enough to hate it. I hated QVC/HSN when I was younger, as well, and it's only gotten stronger as I've gotten older. It's too bad that we seem to need to live so long before we build up immunity to this kind of thing, and even worse that so many of us never do.
posted by lhauser at 11:20 AM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by lhauser at 11:20 AM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Reading this after diving into COP26 news was not what I needed, if I'm trying to boost my hopes for the future.
posted by doctornemo at 11:24 AM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 11:24 AM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
So it's a virtual Tupperware party.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:43 AM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:43 AM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
"Scarcity is something that the live shopping format does exceptionally well."
Addiction, artificially generated scarcity, influencers, a big whiff of MLMs, nostalgia for consumerism - what's not to dread?
posted by doctornemo at 11:44 AM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
Addiction, artificially generated scarcity, influencers, a big whiff of MLMs, nostalgia for consumerism - what's not to dread?
posted by doctornemo at 11:44 AM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
The failure of education to include media awareness and advertising strategies (to inoculate those exposed) is a real failure of education to keep up with technology, and that's a lag that started 50 or more years ago.
posted by hippybear at 1:00 PM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 1:00 PM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
The failure of education to include media awareness and advertising strategies (to inoculate those exposed) is a real failure of education to keep up with technology, and that's a lag that started 50 or more years ago.
My Grade 6 English class did a whole unit on advertising, exploring different techniques and how they worked. When I got to university and took my first rhetoric course, I found some of it already familiar due to that unit.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:24 PM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
My Grade 6 English class did a whole unit on advertising, exploring different techniques and how they worked. When I got to university and took my first rhetoric course, I found some of it already familiar due to that unit.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:24 PM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
My Grade 6 English class did a whole unit on advertising
I wonder how common this is, really, though. I worked in an elementary school for 5 years in the early 90s and there was NO media literacy education at all until I started trying to incorporate it from my meager position as a reading lab educational aide. I was mildly successful, but it really should be something in a spiral curriculum that begins early and continues.
posted by hippybear at 1:28 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
I wonder how common this is, really, though. I worked in an elementary school for 5 years in the early 90s and there was NO media literacy education at all until I started trying to incorporate it from my meager position as a reading lab educational aide. I was mildly successful, but it really should be something in a spiral curriculum that begins early and continues.
posted by hippybear at 1:28 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
The failure of education to include media awareness and advertising strategies
I started working on information literacy in higher education back in the 1990s. (The ALA was on it in the 1980s!) It was always an uphill slog. Far too many faculty dismissed it as a library issue, or something that "kids these days" would just be good at, or something they just didn't have time to do. I added digital literacy, which brought up similar frames of resistance, except "IT" for "library." I mentioned media literacy throughout, which usually mystified folks.
Only after the 2016 election did information literacy get a jolt of interest. And still, too little, too late.
posted by doctornemo at 1:33 PM on November 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
I started working on information literacy in higher education back in the 1990s. (The ALA was on it in the 1980s!) It was always an uphill slog. Far too many faculty dismissed it as a library issue, or something that "kids these days" would just be good at, or something they just didn't have time to do. I added digital literacy, which brought up similar frames of resistance, except "IT" for "library." I mentioned media literacy throughout, which usually mystified folks.
Only after the 2016 election did information literacy get a jolt of interest. And still, too little, too late.
posted by doctornemo at 1:33 PM on November 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
Thanks, I hate it.
We've secretly replaced Ron Popeil with a TikTok influencer, let's see if anyone notices the difference.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 1:34 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
We've secretly replaced Ron Popeil with a TikTok influencer, let's see if anyone notices the difference.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 1:34 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
4. Live shopping creates FOMO
The comment I want to make is just holding down the "a" key until "aaaaaaa..." fills the screen.
Missing out on the fear of missing out is possibly the *best* thing about online shopping.
posted by surlyben at 1:48 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
The comment I want to make is just holding down the "a" key until "aaaaaaa..." fills the screen.
Missing out on the fear of missing out is possibly the *best* thing about online shopping.
posted by surlyben at 1:48 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
So, I too was pretty grossed out by the article itself but tried to come up with a situation in which this would be awesome for me, and I think I nailed it. If I could find an influencer with decent taste and discernment, who was (crucially) about the same size and shape as me and liked basically the same styles of clothes, and I could just watch her go into the clothing and/or shoe store of her choice, try on clothes and/or shoes, and show how they fit and say how quality the workmanship and materials feel with links to buy those items, I would pay real money for that service. I order so much stuff I never end up wearing much because it fits a little weird or the material is scratchy. I don't like going to clothing stores in person for a ton of reasons, but I do hate the waste of shipping things back and forth and knowing that many of my online clothing returns just get thrown out. But I do occasionally need new clothes, and this would be really useful. I'd probably spend more on higher quality, more durable clothes if I had a better sense that they wouldn't end up being an albatross in the back of my closet.
Is this a thing? Can it be a thing???
posted by potrzebie at 1:58 PM on November 14, 2021 [12 favorites]
Is this a thing? Can it be a thing???
posted by potrzebie at 1:58 PM on November 14, 2021 [12 favorites]
Thanks, I hate it.
Also:
Remember when shopping was fun? People would spend an entire weekend at the mall, just looking around and shooting the breeze.
If your idea of 'fun' is spending an entire weekend at the mall, I really can do nothing to help you, you're on your own.
posted by signal at 2:03 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Also:
Remember when shopping was fun? People would spend an entire weekend at the mall, just looking around and shooting the breeze.
If your idea of 'fun' is spending an entire weekend at the mall, I really can do nothing to help you, you're on your own.
posted by signal at 2:03 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Sidenote: I posted 'Thanks, I hate it' before reading the thread and realizing it had already been posted twice.
Great minds hate alike, I guess.
posted by signal at 2:06 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Great minds hate alike, I guess.
posted by signal at 2:06 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
>>My Grade 6 English class did a whole unit on advertising
>I wonder how common this is, really, though.
I totally did not mean to imply "My school did it, therefore every school probably does." I meant it more as, "My school did it and I found it useful, so I agree that it's something more schools should do."
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:27 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
>I wonder how common this is, really, though.
I totally did not mean to imply "My school did it, therefore every school probably does." I meant it more as, "My school did it and I found it useful, so I agree that it's something more schools should do."
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:27 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
I read that entire article and I don’t actually understand what live shopping is. Is it like Twitch, but the streamer is hyping a product and responding to feedback? Is it watching someone shop for a particular event? Humans love narrative so I have no doubt people will eat up shopping when tied with a narrative, but I guess I’m waiting for The New Yorker’s 10,000 word long read on the topic.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:29 PM on November 14, 2021
posted by Going To Maine at 3:29 PM on November 14, 2021
What boggles my mind more than the existence of this atrocity is the people who would willingly subject themselves to it.
I read the whole article of drivel and still had no idea what the hell they were yarking on about until I read the thread here.
posted by fimbulvetr at 3:29 PM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
I read the whole article of drivel and still had no idea what the hell they were yarking on about until I read the thread here.
posted by fimbulvetr at 3:29 PM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
"Is it like Twitch, but the streamer is hyping a product and responding to feedback?"
I believe so. It sounds like a haul video, except they're showing you stuff you can buy through them.
posted by Selena777 at 3:31 PM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
I believe so. It sounds like a haul video, except they're showing you stuff you can buy through them.
posted by Selena777 at 3:31 PM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
(Something can be enjoyable without being the only thing on earth you find enjoyable.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 3:33 PM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 3:33 PM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
One of my kids just got a part time job doing this with a friend of hers, so I am biased the other way. There’s very little overhead - the business is run from home and with rented storage - and the virtual selling is basically an interactive store front so you can see the pretty items and talk to someone and then buy them. Sales patter and cute merchandising is standard retail, not something new, only they’re doing it in a virtual space to buyers who are comfortable with their phones.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 3:56 PM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 3:56 PM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
Years ago my partner and I were on holiday in Istanbul, and we took a ferry out to some of the islands in the sea of Marmara. These two young men got on, and with the captive audience of ferry passengers started doing a sales pitch for some vegetable peelers they were selling out of backpacks. It was incredible. They had demo props, they did sleight of hand tricks, they had jokes that actually got laughs, they cut cucumbers into intricate patterns, it was easily the best sales patter I've ever seen. They made a stack of money on this boat selling plastic peelers.
Now bearing in mind that neither my partner or I spoke any Turkish, that we already owned a number of vegetable peelers at home, that we can get identical ones for pocket change anywhere, that we were hardly going to take space in our bags for a Turkish plastic vegetable peeler: I still have a bit of regret that we didn't get one. That's how entertaining it was.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 3:59 PM on November 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
Now bearing in mind that neither my partner or I spoke any Turkish, that we already owned a number of vegetable peelers at home, that we can get identical ones for pocket change anywhere, that we were hardly going to take space in our bags for a Turkish plastic vegetable peeler: I still have a bit of regret that we didn't get one. That's how entertaining it was.
Live shopping is the next evolution of what it means to truly connect with a consumer. Fans come back to it frequently – and not just when they want to research or buyI think it's a bit different; it's an evolution of sales as market entertainment, it's the 'step right up ladies and gentlemen' effect of showiness. I don't like that I get it, but I appreciate that a good sales pitch is fun.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 3:59 PM on November 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
2. Live shopping taps into the influencer economy. Yeah, do not want. The article is really about ways to use social pressure to make people buy more stuff. Buying too much stuff is killing the climate. There are vast mounds of used clothing that will never be recycled, and being mostly plastic, will not compost. I hate Good (hyped) Friday, Cyber (same) Monday, etc. I don't trust influencers to help me source sustainably produced clothing that will wear well, in non-goofy styles, ideally cut for overweight me.
posted by theora55 at 4:16 PM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 4:16 PM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'll tell you, I actually did used to love shopping. Not so much roaming the mall, but once I was old enough to move to a city, I really could happily spend a day hitting the thrift store, the record store, the used book store, etc. Between 1997 and about 2005, there was a huge, terrific thrift store less than a mile from my house and I probably went there at least once a week. There was a great little multi-vendor vintage/antique space a couple miles away and even though that was too expensive for real shopping I could happily browse for an hour or so.
And the reason this was more fun than the mall and more fun than "live shopping"? Chance. If I went to the mall I knew more or less what I'd find. If I went to the thrift store I might find nothing, I might find an vintage Dior dress (true facts!) or a really good pan or just look at a bunch of weird old toys. The used bookstore, ditto, maybe it would be a pointless day or maybe I'd walk out with a stack of books I'd been searching for. And then who knew what might happen? Would I run into a friend, would I see a weird altercation, would the really mean bookstore clerk be there? Would I see cute people? Would I hear an interesting and totally unknown to me song at the record store? And for a basically introverted person, it was a pleasant way to be around people but not actually, like, be around people.
Now, I freely admit that you can't live on thrifting alone, because sometimes you need brown shoes in a size 10 and all there is at the thrift store is lizard pumps in an 8. But anyway, I never shop for fun anymore - the thrift store is closed, there are a couple of actual vinyl record stores that I keep meaning to check out but first I really need to get my record player fixed, the used bookstores near the university were gentrified out of existence and replaced by condos and the nation's oldest science fiction bookstore got burned down after the police murdered George Floyd.
My point being that if you expect me to replace those living, textured, get-out-of-the-house-but-not-too-much experiences with sitting in front of my computer while some heavily styled blond tries to persuade me to buy a powder-coated seventies-style air fryer in a contemporary mauve, you have another think coming.
posted by Frowner at 5:41 PM on November 14, 2021 [24 favorites]
And the reason this was more fun than the mall and more fun than "live shopping"? Chance. If I went to the mall I knew more or less what I'd find. If I went to the thrift store I might find nothing, I might find an vintage Dior dress (true facts!) or a really good pan or just look at a bunch of weird old toys. The used bookstore, ditto, maybe it would be a pointless day or maybe I'd walk out with a stack of books I'd been searching for. And then who knew what might happen? Would I run into a friend, would I see a weird altercation, would the really mean bookstore clerk be there? Would I see cute people? Would I hear an interesting and totally unknown to me song at the record store? And for a basically introverted person, it was a pleasant way to be around people but not actually, like, be around people.
Now, I freely admit that you can't live on thrifting alone, because sometimes you need brown shoes in a size 10 and all there is at the thrift store is lizard pumps in an 8. But anyway, I never shop for fun anymore - the thrift store is closed, there are a couple of actual vinyl record stores that I keep meaning to check out but first I really need to get my record player fixed, the used bookstores near the university were gentrified out of existence and replaced by condos and the nation's oldest science fiction bookstore got burned down after the police murdered George Floyd.
My point being that if you expect me to replace those living, textured, get-out-of-the-house-but-not-too-much experiences with sitting in front of my computer while some heavily styled blond tries to persuade me to buy a powder-coated seventies-style air fryer in a contemporary mauve, you have another think coming.
posted by Frowner at 5:41 PM on November 14, 2021 [24 favorites]
Responding directly to your point theora55, while the article linked is definitely a marketing-oriented glossy advertorial sort, what makes an 'influencer' in live shopping is incredibly loose. These are all micro-level sellers, in their respective niches, like plus-size persons who've tried some stuff they'd like to recommend, and getting a cut from the affiliate links (the local Amazon-like here calls them ambassador programs). As mentioned, it's a Tupperware party, or a street vendor, but virtually.
Kinda like what potrzebie is looking for: I'd probably spend more on higher quality, more durable clothes if I had a better sense that they wouldn't end up being an albatross in the back of my closet.
I follow plus-size and fat advocates, and as Americans they're still at the, 'ocassionally i talk about brands that fit my plus-size body but that's part of my life that i talk on twitter,' but it's basically that, expanded. That's the positive outcome. The negative one is yes, the proto-version you've seen is like those LuLaRoe ladies in their FB lives.
I'm not really compelled to defend the capitalist model or whatever, i am amused by the level of outrage though. The FPP makes as though it's a new lucrative income stream but it's been a landscape filled with micro-sellers imo. Viewers drop in and out as well. It's also not as unusual and bizarre as it's presented, likely it's already been practiced by demographics more familiar to similar practices in the west.
posted by cendawanita at 5:42 PM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
Kinda like what potrzebie is looking for: I'd probably spend more on higher quality, more durable clothes if I had a better sense that they wouldn't end up being an albatross in the back of my closet.
I follow plus-size and fat advocates, and as Americans they're still at the, 'ocassionally i talk about brands that fit my plus-size body but that's part of my life that i talk on twitter,' but it's basically that, expanded. That's the positive outcome. The negative one is yes, the proto-version you've seen is like those LuLaRoe ladies in their FB lives.
I'm not really compelled to defend the capitalist model or whatever, i am amused by the level of outrage though. The FPP makes as though it's a new lucrative income stream but it's been a landscape filled with micro-sellers imo. Viewers drop in and out as well. It's also not as unusual and bizarre as it's presented, likely it's already been practiced by demographics more familiar to similar practices in the west.
posted by cendawanita at 5:42 PM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
As Marcus Johnson, host of eMarketer’s Behind the Numbers podcast, recently said on his show, “I’ve never walked into a store and thought, ‘Alright, where are the black items under $50 in a medium?’”
Mr. Johnson and I are very different people.
posted by Johnny Assay at 6:11 PM on November 14, 2021 [15 favorites]
Mr. Johnson and I are very different people.
posted by Johnny Assay at 6:11 PM on November 14, 2021 [15 favorites]
I don’t just want these people to get off my lawn - I want them to get off everyone else’s lawns, too.
I'd actually strongly consider paying for a service that insured I'd never have to interact with anyone who found this article, service, or the participating brands appealing ever again.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:33 PM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'd actually strongly consider paying for a service that insured I'd never have to interact with anyone who found this article, service, or the participating brands appealing ever again.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:33 PM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm not really compelled to defend the capitalist model or whatever, i am amused by the level of outrage though. The FPP makes as though it's a new lucrative income stream but it's been a landscape filled with micro-sellers imo. Viewers drop in and out as well. It's also not as unusual and bizarre as it's presented, likely it's already been practiced by demographics more familiar to similar practices in the west.
I don't have any real problem with the micro-sellers, such as someone knitting amusing hats and showing people what ones are currently available as part of their twitch stream of them knitting, or someone passing on the shops they found helpful and non-degrading for plus-size clothing in their personal style with affiliate links to what they're showing off.
That however, is not how you build a $25 billion industry in the US.
Referring to the fine article, "Live shopping is fun; it’s engaging, and, most of all, for viewers, it’s addictive entertainment. For those who grew up long after QVC got famous on cable TV, live shopping is retail’s answer to Netflix and Twitch. Live shopping allows you to tune in to a maker, an influencer, a celebrity, or just a funny random person, and hang out."
That is aiming for parasocial relationships run through the late-capitalism machine on maximum exploit, and makes me think much more of say, Alex Jones flogging water filters and dodgy supplements to hordes of qanon cultists than it does virtual tupperware parties with actual friends.
Plus the ecological cost of MOAR BUY MAX NOW that is literally setting the planet on fire, of course.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 6:47 PM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
I don't have any real problem with the micro-sellers, such as someone knitting amusing hats and showing people what ones are currently available as part of their twitch stream of them knitting, or someone passing on the shops they found helpful and non-degrading for plus-size clothing in their personal style with affiliate links to what they're showing off.
That however, is not how you build a $25 billion industry in the US.
Referring to the fine article, "Live shopping is fun; it’s engaging, and, most of all, for viewers, it’s addictive entertainment. For those who grew up long after QVC got famous on cable TV, live shopping is retail’s answer to Netflix and Twitch. Live shopping allows you to tune in to a maker, an influencer, a celebrity, or just a funny random person, and hang out."
That is aiming for parasocial relationships run through the late-capitalism machine on maximum exploit, and makes me think much more of say, Alex Jones flogging water filters and dodgy supplements to hordes of qanon cultists than it does virtual tupperware parties with actual friends.
Plus the ecological cost of MOAR BUY MAX NOW that is literally setting the planet on fire, of course.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 6:47 PM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
Absolutely co-signed on taking advantage of the parasocial aspect, but just based on what's happening in Asia, where the model is relatively matured, the hype is *massively* overblown. As it is anyway, even China's youths are moving away from this whole nonsense as a celebration of consumerism (South China Morning Post piece). Likely the ecology is just micro-bubbles forever -- as it is the more popular streams on shopee (a local Amazon) are utterly random people sharing ghost stories. It's a bit like twitch because i think twitch is associated more with gaming, and ppl are more on mobile here and shopping apps are basically a one-stop service.
posted by cendawanita at 6:57 PM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by cendawanita at 6:57 PM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
The only way anything like this could possibly work for me is it is some crafts-person selling their own handiwork. Quilters, knitters, woodworkers, etc…. Everything else would just seem to be a con job.
posted by Ignorantsavage at 7:55 PM on November 14, 2021
posted by Ignorantsavage at 7:55 PM on November 14, 2021
This "live shopping" article about "live shopping" needs to be liberally salted with "live shopping," a two-word phrase encompassing the interesting and fascinating phenomenon "live shopping."
posted by user92371 at 8:00 PM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by user92371 at 8:00 PM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
The environmental issues and capitalism issues and parasocial relationships on social media issues are all quite important and valid. And we can talk about them without the whole hating-on-Walmart-shoppers style cultural disdain, hey?
Eg. we can keep in mind that tv shopping network shows were, for a long time in the pre-internet days, where someone needing kitchen utensils or other home goods that were usable by differently abled folks, who maybe didn’t have good fine motor skills, had significantly below average strength, had a hand tremor, had limited mobility, etc. could actually find and purchase such tools. (It was here on Metafilter, in fact, that I read an article about the advertising for such items that used typically abled people to avoid stigma, which came off very oddly for those of us who didn’t understand what was going on at the time.) And we can listen to and hear our fellow Mefites who are explaining a real, valid need that this current online equivalent can fill in some cases.
Which is not to say that probably the majority of tv shopping items then or “live shopping” products now aren’t just junk that no one truly needs. But it is to say that a blanket prejudice against users of such services can overlap uncomfortably with some fairly indefensible other types of prejudice.
This, for example:
I'd actually strongly consider paying for a service that insured I'd never have to interact with anyone who found this article, service, or the participating brands appealing ever again.
Considering some of the other comments in the thread, you’ll be deactivating your Metafilter account imminently, then?
posted by eviemath at 8:17 PM on November 14, 2021 [15 favorites]
Eg. we can keep in mind that tv shopping network shows were, for a long time in the pre-internet days, where someone needing kitchen utensils or other home goods that were usable by differently abled folks, who maybe didn’t have good fine motor skills, had significantly below average strength, had a hand tremor, had limited mobility, etc. could actually find and purchase such tools. (It was here on Metafilter, in fact, that I read an article about the advertising for such items that used typically abled people to avoid stigma, which came off very oddly for those of us who didn’t understand what was going on at the time.) And we can listen to and hear our fellow Mefites who are explaining a real, valid need that this current online equivalent can fill in some cases.
Which is not to say that probably the majority of tv shopping items then or “live shopping” products now aren’t just junk that no one truly needs. But it is to say that a blanket prejudice against users of such services can overlap uncomfortably with some fairly indefensible other types of prejudice.
This, for example:
I'd actually strongly consider paying for a service that insured I'd never have to interact with anyone who found this article, service, or the participating brands appealing ever again.
Considering some of the other comments in the thread, you’ll be deactivating your Metafilter account imminently, then?
posted by eviemath at 8:17 PM on November 14, 2021 [15 favorites]
Shopping via TV/computer is one of the few things I remember from educational films about "the future" from my childhood, that actually happened.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:28 PM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:28 PM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
Live shopping creates FOMO
Steam used to have sales around the holidays where every day they would reveal a few games that would be on sale at a drastically reduced price for 24 hours. I'd be visiting family for Thanksgiving and every day stop to check the Steam website to see what the sale was that day. I bought more than one game that I haven't yet played.
But they stopped doing it. They'll still have a big sale for a week or two, but all the deals are announced the first day and last the whole sale. And the discounts are not quite as deep as they used to be. And I hardly pay attention to it.
But I can't believe Valve made this change to make my life better. It must be more profitable to do it this way. So maybe the FOMO stuff doesn't really scale. Maybe the market of people who have time to sit and watch the show to get the really big limited-time discounts is much smaller than the market of people who will just buy some stuff if you offer it on a website at a pretty good price.
posted by straight at 9:03 PM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
Steam used to have sales around the holidays where every day they would reveal a few games that would be on sale at a drastically reduced price for 24 hours. I'd be visiting family for Thanksgiving and every day stop to check the Steam website to see what the sale was that day. I bought more than one game that I haven't yet played.
But they stopped doing it. They'll still have a big sale for a week or two, but all the deals are announced the first day and last the whole sale. And the discounts are not quite as deep as they used to be. And I hardly pay attention to it.
But I can't believe Valve made this change to make my life better. It must be more profitable to do it this way. So maybe the FOMO stuff doesn't really scale. Maybe the market of people who have time to sit and watch the show to get the really big limited-time discounts is much smaller than the market of people who will just buy some stuff if you offer it on a website at a pretty good price.
posted by straight at 9:03 PM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'd actually strongly consider paying for a service that insured I'd never have to interact with anyone who found this article, service, or the participating brands appealing ever again.
Considering some of the other comments in the thread, you’ll be deactivating your Metafilter account imminently, then?
Perhaps that would not be necessary. As an ethnic Chinese person who finds the best 直播帶貨 content engaging to watch, I would gladly go out of my way to avoid interacting with the first poster. In fact, judging by the replies in this thread, those of us who find "Live Shopping" useful in some way may be the ones who should consider deactivation.
Another poster above asked for good examples to watch. I wanted to contribute, in no small part because that poster was one of the few here who tried to learn in good faith. But honestly, I don't have the motivation or mental energy to dive into this topic in an obviously hostile environment.
Just google 薇娅 and 李佳琦 for two of the most successful examples in China.
posted by fatehunter at 9:09 PM on November 14, 2021 [18 favorites]
Considering some of the other comments in the thread, you’ll be deactivating your Metafilter account imminently, then?
Perhaps that would not be necessary. As an ethnic Chinese person who finds the best 直播帶貨 content engaging to watch, I would gladly go out of my way to avoid interacting with the first poster. In fact, judging by the replies in this thread, those of us who find "Live Shopping" useful in some way may be the ones who should consider deactivation.
Another poster above asked for good examples to watch. I wanted to contribute, in no small part because that poster was one of the few here who tried to learn in good faith. But honestly, I don't have the motivation or mental energy to dive into this topic in an obviously hostile environment.
Just google 薇娅 and 李佳琦 for two of the most successful examples in China.
posted by fatehunter at 9:09 PM on November 14, 2021 [18 favorites]
i love how this is turning into a culture war fight
think of how engaged we are right now!
posted by glonous keming at 9:16 PM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
think of how engaged we are right now!
posted by glonous keming at 9:16 PM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
Thanks for calling out the bullshit here, fatehunter. I'm sorry it's been so hurtful to you. Metafilter likes to pretend it's all accepting but there's an orthodoxy. Enjoying shopping is apparently beyond the pale.
posted by Nelson at 10:05 PM on November 14, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 10:05 PM on November 14, 2021 [8 favorites]
I'm a little reminded of Daniel Miller's take on the ethics of consumption. As an anthropologist who's studied both consumption (books on shopping, consumerism, etc.) and social media (he helped organize a series of books on social media in England, Chile, Trinidad, industrial and rural China, Italy, Turkey, Brazil, and India--all free online), his main point about the ethics of consumption in that short video is how often he sees fellow critics of consumption turn around and enjoy the heck out of it in some domain or other. And he's like yeah he's an avid consumer too. I imagine many people do better by some measure, but to keep his own position straight on what he says vs. what he does, his priority as a critic is something like access to consumption--a concern for wealth/class divisions worldwide, people with disabilities, and so on--because that's a frame of reference for aiming at sustainability that is also fair. I'm sure there are other positions that are reasonable too, like for sure I get the parasociality critique--I just suspect a common case for this might be more like moving typical sales floor interactions and in-store events online.
posted by Wobbuffet at 10:23 PM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Wobbuffet at 10:23 PM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
on the bright side, if this turns the entire business of social media "influencers" into a punchline the way QVC is, all the better!
posted by wibari at 10:31 PM on November 14, 2021
posted by wibari at 10:31 PM on November 14, 2021
i mean, are the regular AskMetafilter questions on shopping recommendations more ethical just because we live in a strictly text-based forum?
posted by cendawanita at 10:39 PM on November 14, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 10:39 PM on November 14, 2021 [9 favorites]
A better article on live shopping, profiling Viya (薇娅 Wei Ya), from Bloomberg. The World's Livestream Queen Can Sell Anything. It's entertainment, not just shopping.
The live, online shopping extravaganza the 34-year-old hosts most nights for her fans across China is part variety show, part infomercial, part group chat.I thought the Economist article posted by Nelson was also good. China doesn't have the vast array of shopping malls that the US does, so online shopping is more attractive.
... Alibaba’s technology allows the audience to watch a live stream, chat with other viewers, and select and pay for a product—all at the same time. There’s no friction between entertainment and buying, which is the whole point.
According to Bain, a consultancy, America has 3.3 times as much physical shop floor per person as China does. Bernstein, a broker, reckons that America’s 330m people have 30 times as many malls as 1.4bn Chinese do.posted by russilwvong at 10:58 PM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
The West’s finest shops are as dazzling as ordering on Amazon is drab. They also represent legacy investments that retailers are loth to undermine. As a result, neither retailers nor their customers have had much of an incentive to shun them—at least before covid-19.
Not so in China. Like everyone else in the world, Chinese still buy most things in physical shops. Especially outside big cities, though, many of these are shabby. Some sell fake goods. So China’s nascent middle class, armed with smartphones and broadband internet, finds online shopping both more rewarding and comfier than in the West, says Marc-André Kamel of Bain.
... Live-streaming has boomed as covid-19 confined Chinese to their living rooms while many captivating alternatives, like Netflix, remained banned in the country.
Joseph Heath on consumerism:
This brings us then to the liberal critique of consumerism. The most distinctive feature of the liberal strategy is that it refrains entirely from criticizing people’s preferences. The problem with consumerism, according to this view, is not that people have been tricked into wanting something that they should not want. The problem with consumerism is that it is a form of collectively self-defeating behaviour.posted by russilwvong at 11:04 PM on November 14, 2021 [9 favorites]
... Suppose that both neighbors are working a standard week, and driving modest sedans. However, by putting in a bit of overtime, it is possible for each to buy a more expensive car, say an SUV. Suppose further that the extra status associated with being the only one to own such a vehicle is of greater value than the foregone leisure time, and that the humiliation associated with being the only one not to own such a vehicle is worse than the loss of leisure. ...
Both neighbors will decide to work harder, either to get the extra status, or just to avoid the humiliation. As a result, they will wind up right back where they started – both driving the same type of car, both having the same relative status – except that now they will be working harder in order to maintain their lifestyle. Thus the outcome produced through status competition is inferior, from both of the participants’ perspectives, to the situation that initially obtained.
... The key advantage of the liberal critique is that it is not paternalistic, and so does not purport to tell people what they should and should not find valuable. As a result, it remains neutral among controversial conceptions of the good, and is therefore able to serve as an appropriate basis for public action. What sort of action is contemplated here? Historically, the most common has been to impose special ‘sumptuary’ taxes on luxury goods, or goods that form a part of conspicuous consumption complexes. A more far-reaching solution to the problem of overwork is simply to impose a more progressive income tax.
I first encountered this kind of thing on IG, but IG is mostly a marketing platform these days anyway.
So, there are two mega-app shopping platforms in the Philippines--one of them is Alibaba backed. There are montly events.. 10/10, 11/11... They buy time on local networks for evening TV events and hire international celebrities. Then, the apps themselves allow sellers to do their own livestreams. These range from QVC style, to some poor person sleeping at their computer waiting for someone to watch. Online buying is essentially unregulated, so it is the wild west in many ways.
I do remember the Chinese government cracking down on some of this behavior in the past few months as part of them trying to limit the size of the tech giants.
posted by joelr at 12:43 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
So, there are two mega-app shopping platforms in the Philippines--one of them is Alibaba backed. There are montly events.. 10/10, 11/11... They buy time on local networks for evening TV events and hire international celebrities. Then, the apps themselves allow sellers to do their own livestreams. These range from QVC style, to some poor person sleeping at their computer waiting for someone to watch. Online buying is essentially unregulated, so it is the wild west in many ways.
I do remember the Chinese government cracking down on some of this behavior in the past few months as part of them trying to limit the size of the tech giants.
posted by joelr at 12:43 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think it is possible to find this article totally repellent and also acknowledge that in some circumstances seeing someone show products online could be useful.
posted by snofoam at 2:25 AM on November 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 2:25 AM on November 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
These range from QVC style, to some poor person sleeping at their computer waiting for someone to watch.
Does your local Twitter*/FB space also have the occasional viral posts about some poor seller who's had zero views and we should help them out by watching their stream? I never partake but no one can resist pulling for a little guy hence those posts going viral.
*Malaysians call ours 'twitterjaya', jaya being a common suffix to a housing project/neighbourhood/city
posted by cendawanita at 2:47 AM on November 15, 2021
Does your local Twitter*/FB space also have the occasional viral posts about some poor seller who's had zero views and we should help them out by watching their stream? I never partake but no one can resist pulling for a little guy hence those posts going viral.
*Malaysians call ours 'twitterjaya', jaya being a common suffix to a housing project/neighbourhood/city
posted by cendawanita at 2:47 AM on November 15, 2021
I'm glad I read the actual article because I learned something, but I do also wonder if a different, less spammily written article would have gotten a very different reaction. The SEO-driven writing style, the boosterism, and the talk about FOMO and "engagement" are all things that set off folks' burn-it-to-the-ground reaction here—and I include myself in that.
Weirdly, I wonder if something more ambivalent, something that talked about consumerism and about real risks and benefits to real users, would have prompted people to talk more positively about the phenomenon. Maybe not "I love it" but at least "I, too, am ambivalent" and maybe "Jeez, this is fascinating."
posted by nebulawindphone at 5:22 AM on November 15, 2021 [8 favorites]
Weirdly, I wonder if something more ambivalent, something that talked about consumerism and about real risks and benefits to real users, would have prompted people to talk more positively about the phenomenon. Maybe not "I love it" but at least "I, too, am ambivalent" and maybe "Jeez, this is fascinating."
posted by nebulawindphone at 5:22 AM on November 15, 2021 [8 favorites]
Remember when shopping was fun? People would spend an entire weekend at the mall, just looking around and shooting the breeze.
Someone else pointed this line out upthread, but for me, it stuck out because, of course we hung out at the mall, there was no where else to go! I can't speak for anyone else, but the hours spent at the mall were spent because the burbs had almost no public places to hang out with friends. The only good thing about the mall is that it had places to sit down and it was free to be there. Sure, you could go shopping, but shit, if I had money, I wouldn't have been at the mall, oddly enough.
Another beauty: There’s nothing more infectious than seeing a person who loves the same types of things as you gush about a product that you can buy right then and there. It’s an instant connection – from one enthusiast to the other.
All I can hear is the high pitched wail of the crushing weight of loneliness that this work all the time, still never have enough to make ends meet, gotta keep hustling bullshit of a world has brought us to. We work so much that chances to socialize fade away, replaced by texts and seeing photos of each other, and ever so slowly, we move from photos of our friends, chats with our friends to listening to complete strangers, to looking at photos of their lives, to watching videos of them living the lives we wish we had, and we barely ever noticed it (I am aware of the irony of posting this on a text only message board, thanks).
They're really just not going to stop until every possible action in human life is monetized, are they?
posted by Ghidorah at 6:09 AM on November 15, 2021 [15 favorites]
Someone else pointed this line out upthread, but for me, it stuck out because, of course we hung out at the mall, there was no where else to go! I can't speak for anyone else, but the hours spent at the mall were spent because the burbs had almost no public places to hang out with friends. The only good thing about the mall is that it had places to sit down and it was free to be there. Sure, you could go shopping, but shit, if I had money, I wouldn't have been at the mall, oddly enough.
Another beauty: There’s nothing more infectious than seeing a person who loves the same types of things as you gush about a product that you can buy right then and there. It’s an instant connection – from one enthusiast to the other.
All I can hear is the high pitched wail of the crushing weight of loneliness that this work all the time, still never have enough to make ends meet, gotta keep hustling bullshit of a world has brought us to. We work so much that chances to socialize fade away, replaced by texts and seeing photos of each other, and ever so slowly, we move from photos of our friends, chats with our friends to listening to complete strangers, to looking at photos of their lives, to watching videos of them living the lives we wish we had, and we barely ever noticed it (I am aware of the irony of posting this on a text only message board, thanks).
They're really just not going to stop until every possible action in human life is monetized, are they?
posted by Ghidorah at 6:09 AM on November 15, 2021 [15 favorites]
nebulawindphone: "… I do also wonder if a different, less spammily written article would have gotten a very different reaction. The SEO-driven writing style, the boosterism, and the talk about FOMO and "engagement" are all things that set off folks' burn-it-to-the-ground reaction here—and I include myself in that. "
Hard same.
posted by signal at 6:22 AM on November 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
Hard same.
posted by signal at 6:22 AM on November 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
Considering some of the other comments in the thread, you’ll be deactivating your Metafilter account imminently, then?
I'll make an exception for MeFites. They're always good people.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:28 AM on November 15, 2021
I'll make an exception for MeFites. They're always good people.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:28 AM on November 15, 2021
NYT has an article about this today, as well: Why the Internet Is Turning Into QVC
posted by msbrauer at 6:47 AM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by msbrauer at 6:47 AM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm too old to use Live Shopping as well but it's really interesting to read about it:
* New Oriental (新东方), the educational service company whose business model was cut off at the knees by the recent government edicts to ban cram schools, announced recently that they are going to Live Shop their way out of their massive financial losses.
* Dong Mingzhu (董明珠), the chairwoman of Gree Electrics and arguably the most famous business woman in China, had a couple of massive Live Shopping events last year that made headlines. Imagine the head of GE doing that.
* Li Jiaqi (李佳琦) often has guest stars in his studio who are the biggest names in the entertainment industry, but the audience favorite is 金靖，a comedienne whose onscreen chemistry with Li inspired a lot of shippers ('CP fans').
posted by of strange foe at 8:12 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
* New Oriental (新东方), the educational service company whose business model was cut off at the knees by the recent government edicts to ban cram schools, announced recently that they are going to Live Shop their way out of their massive financial losses.
* Dong Mingzhu (董明珠), the chairwoman of Gree Electrics and arguably the most famous business woman in China, had a couple of massive Live Shopping events last year that made headlines. Imagine the head of GE doing that.
* Li Jiaqi (李佳琦) often has guest stars in his studio who are the biggest names in the entertainment industry, but the audience favorite is 金靖，a comedienne whose onscreen chemistry with Li inspired a lot of shippers ('CP fans').
posted by of strange foe at 8:12 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Shopping Is A Feeling
doing some kind of streetwear or other merch line seems to already be de rigueur for big streamers and youtubers. It's when someone's 'influencer' status isn't derivative of some other following that it tends to be deemed 'cringe.'
(Cue the Matt Christman rant on the devolution of judgment and taste to 'cringe' or 'based' in that milieu.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:06 AM on November 15, 2021
doing some kind of streetwear or other merch line seems to already be de rigueur for big streamers and youtubers. It's when someone's 'influencer' status isn't derivative of some other following that it tends to be deemed 'cringe.'
(Cue the Matt Christman rant on the devolution of judgment and taste to 'cringe' or 'based' in that milieu.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:06 AM on November 15, 2021
Wow the reactions in this thread seem completely over the top to me. I've had friends in MLMs (sigh) and they have been doing this kind of thing for a while, but the pandemic dialed it up. Other than that I've seen it in small/tiny businesses like the dinosaur one mentioned above.
To me it reads like the pop up shop or "special shopping days for members" equivalent for online sales, or a shopping network sort of equivalent. I suppose people could get sucked in -- I mean, people get sucked in all the time -- but given that online shopping sites already have the "also recommended for you" "people who bought this also bought this" and the crazy kind of remarketing that means when I buy almost anything online, I get offered that thing again or the next thing in an ad (unless I'm using blockers etc.), it seems...kind of tame, in a North American urban context.
Sitting through 3 hours to find the one thing that may or may not appeal to me seems kind of the opposite of quick impulse online shopping.
I can see my rural family really enjoying these events and maybe spending more. On the other hand it might keep them from doing an overnight shopping blitz after driving 5 hours each way.
As for buying habits, I agree with buying less. I'm usually a thrift shop/second hand person but over the pandemic I was knocked out of my comfort zone. I ended up spending more on high quality goods (indigenous made boots for example, for my child that has grown *4 shoe sizes* since the first week of lockdown) and while I'm not quite sure of the net carbon impact what with boxing and shipping, with thrifting it usually means checking things out fairly regularly - like once a month on the way to pottery class - to find the things I want/that fit me and in this case it was research, order, done. There aren't always obvious answers.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:51 AM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
To me it reads like the pop up shop or "special shopping days for members" equivalent for online sales, or a shopping network sort of equivalent. I suppose people could get sucked in -- I mean, people get sucked in all the time -- but given that online shopping sites already have the "also recommended for you" "people who bought this also bought this" and the crazy kind of remarketing that means when I buy almost anything online, I get offered that thing again or the next thing in an ad (unless I'm using blockers etc.), it seems...kind of tame, in a North American urban context.
Sitting through 3 hours to find the one thing that may or may not appeal to me seems kind of the opposite of quick impulse online shopping.
I can see my rural family really enjoying these events and maybe spending more. On the other hand it might keep them from doing an overnight shopping blitz after driving 5 hours each way.
As for buying habits, I agree with buying less. I'm usually a thrift shop/second hand person but over the pandemic I was knocked out of my comfort zone. I ended up spending more on high quality goods (indigenous made boots for example, for my child that has grown *4 shoe sizes* since the first week of lockdown) and while I'm not quite sure of the net carbon impact what with boxing and shipping, with thrifting it usually means checking things out fairly regularly - like once a month on the way to pottery class - to find the things I want/that fit me and in this case it was research, order, done. There aren't always obvious answers.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:51 AM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
whether something is "over the top" could really depend on your mood at a given moment.. on the one hand, an article might provoke some hand-wavey "oh, there has always been propaganda and manipulation in politics" and that's not wrong, but it seems to miss some of the way networked technologies are refining and shaping approaches to manipulation. I guess there will always be room for "nothing new to see here" and "oh shit oh shit oh shit"
posted by elkevelvet at 10:59 AM on November 15, 2021
posted by elkevelvet at 10:59 AM on November 15, 2021
So it’s like home shopping channel but you can talk to them real-time?
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:26 AM on November 15, 2021
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:26 AM on November 15, 2021
No I’ve got it. Like vegetable blender demo people at health food fairs.
Yes? Did I get it? What do I win?
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:33 AM on November 15, 2021
Yes? Did I get it? What do I win?
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:33 AM on November 15, 2021
So it’s like home shopping channel but you can talk to them real-time parasocial.
(So, no, probably not. You can talk at them in real time, and with the other chatters.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:43 PM on November 15, 2021
(So, no, probably not. You can talk at them in real time, and with the other chatters.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:43 PM on November 15, 2021
Frowner's comment about rejoicing in the hunt for treasures in great thrift stores/secondhand bookstores/second hand record stores/vintage clothing places and antique malls ABSOLUTELY hit a cord.
Yes, shopping is fun for lots of people, but it's not about buying heavily marked up cheap crap from Amazon, it's about finding the one album/book/coat that you'd otherwise not ever see.
posted by jrochest at 1:26 PM on November 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
Yes, shopping is fun for lots of people, but it's not about buying heavily marked up cheap crap from Amazon, it's about finding the one album/book/coat that you'd otherwise not ever see.
posted by jrochest at 1:26 PM on November 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
There's a fairly popular Twitch streamer that does this. He and his partner own a few video game stores in Seattle, and (at least when I was watching last year) every Wednesday him and one of the staff go through a bunch of random trade-ins and bargain bin junk they've gotten. Subscribers to his channel can call dibs on anything they see; he whips up an invoice (off-stream), you send him a Paypal (I assume) and your mailing address if he doesn't already have it, and done: you've bought yourself a video game from a live stream. On the other nights he streams, he'll do a handful of shopping sprees for long-time viewers who've racked up enough Twitch channel points. Basically, you have five minutes to ask for whatever games, accessories, systems, merch, etc. you want to buy, and he'll grab it for you live while wearing a headcam.
Sure, you could also just go into the store like most people do and not bother with all the rigamarole, but because he already has a big community of Twitch viewers who watch him fix old Gameboys and sort through trade-ins, it's more than just a QVC thing, but another way to interact with what seems like a cool local game shop (even if it's not actually local to you). The point isn't necessarily to buy stuff, it's to hang out after-hours at the store; being able to buy a random copy of EA College Football 2016 or whatever is just a plus.
I have no idea how that particular balance of community and commerce translates to a large retailer, but I'm sure at least some of them will try to figure it out.
posted by chrominance at 2:25 PM on November 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
Sure, you could also just go into the store like most people do and not bother with all the rigamarole, but because he already has a big community of Twitch viewers who watch him fix old Gameboys and sort through trade-ins, it's more than just a QVC thing, but another way to interact with what seems like a cool local game shop (even if it's not actually local to you). The point isn't necessarily to buy stuff, it's to hang out after-hours at the store; being able to buy a random copy of EA College Football 2016 or whatever is just a plus.
I have no idea how that particular balance of community and commerce translates to a large retailer, but I'm sure at least some of them will try to figure it out.
posted by chrominance at 2:25 PM on November 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
Can I use this ‘live shopping’ thing to buy pitchforks? Torches? A sharpener for my guillotine?
How about a wee catapult for the heads?
posted by kirkaracha at 4:26 PM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
How about a wee catapult for the heads?
posted by kirkaracha at 4:26 PM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
We got the guillotine (you better run)
[The Coup, of course]
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:35 PM on November 15, 2021
[The Coup, of course]
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:35 PM on November 15, 2021
So, yet another way to use the cult of personality, high-charisma hucksters, and the tendency of humans to get excited and overenthusiastic about, well, just about anything if it's hyped enough, all to separate the vulnerable and gullible into parting with their money. I hate advertising with a passion; to me this is yet another assault on society that only causes harm being lauded because it makes rich people richer and poor people poorer.
(I blame my 6th grade curriculum, which included a semester-long segment on recognizing and resisting sales and persuasion techniques. Unlike my fellow classmates, who only paid enough attention to pass the tests, once I started seeing the Fnords, I never stopped.)
posted by Blackanvil at 10:29 AM on November 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
(I blame my 6th grade curriculum, which included a semester-long segment on recognizing and resisting sales and persuasion techniques. Unlike my fellow classmates, who only paid enough attention to pass the tests, once I started seeing the Fnords, I never stopped.)
posted by Blackanvil at 10:29 AM on November 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
Hey folks I haven't bothered to read any of the discussion but I'm here to snark on people who enjoy this social phenomenon without understanding their motivations or cultural background. Also I have an entirely original thought: does this remind anyone else of Home Shopping? Please admire me as I posture my superiority here on metafilter dot com.
posted by Nelson at 10:58 AM on November 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 10:58 AM on November 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
Part of the issue here is I think the framing. You know what I’ve watched a lot of lately? Board game reviews by Shut Up & Sit Down and No Pun Included. I’m watching because the jokes are good and I have parasocial relationships with the producers, but I also know my tastes in games are quite different. I also watched a fair amount of SUSD's AwSHUX convention, which at its most basic was board game designers hawking their products with playthroughs and demos. Their preview coverage - which consisted of members of the SUSD team basically hyping a bunch of games (with the big spoken caveat that they hadn't tried these but they sounded cool).
In other words, I don’t think I like this idea as presented in the article’s marketing hype speak, but realistically I’m probably open to it in the specific case of my niche interests.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:46 AM on November 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
In other words, I don’t think I like this idea as presented in the article’s marketing hype speak, but realistically I’m probably open to it in the specific case of my niche interests.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:46 AM on November 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
It doesn't seem so much like the Netflix and Twitch of retail, but Onlyfans (multichannel/host?). I've only read the article, and it sounds like in general it would be better called "Live Selling."
posted by rhizome at 6:44 PM on November 16, 2021
posted by rhizome at 6:44 PM on November 16, 2021
In addition to a couple of the videos linked in the comment, and Chinese streamers (that I googled later), there's also this Bloomberg video (that is based off of the article linked upthread), if you want to have a sense of what's going on.
I think it's worth reiterating that 'superapps' is de riguer in Asia, to an extent that's unimaginable to America. That particular factor is also how live shopping can develop as a niche in terms of user habits. I'm not sure if it's replicable without big brands in the West, which I can see why it's unnerving. The ecosystem difference here is why I personally am a bit more ambivalent about it, because it's not just big fishes, so in terms of marketing it's just not geared to be monopolistic in products (just network/platform access -- but this isn't unique to China, where private spaces are being taken as defacto public forums, just more visibly regulated/censored). I rarely need to see these big sellers, because I don't care for them. I find my faux-personal shoppers elsewhere. The ecosystem allows for niches to develop (even if not necessarily flourish).
There's a Malaysian movie on Netflix called Sa Balik Baju which is an anthology piece. One is about a laid off journalist who got into live shopping lingerie (as a seller) because she wanted to reach out to more people the way she couldn't in print media about positive body messages. The movie's just so-so, but if it's available in your market it's a pretty entertaining fictional look at the work from the small fishes, not these big glossy accounts that're capturing the attention of Western brands.
posted by cendawanita at 7:33 PM on November 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
I think it's worth reiterating that 'superapps' is de riguer in Asia, to an extent that's unimaginable to America. That particular factor is also how live shopping can develop as a niche in terms of user habits. I'm not sure if it's replicable without big brands in the West, which I can see why it's unnerving. The ecosystem difference here is why I personally am a bit more ambivalent about it, because it's not just big fishes, so in terms of marketing it's just not geared to be monopolistic in products (just network/platform access -- but this isn't unique to China, where private spaces are being taken as defacto public forums, just more visibly regulated/censored). I rarely need to see these big sellers, because I don't care for them. I find my faux-personal shoppers elsewhere. The ecosystem allows for niches to develop (even if not necessarily flourish).
There's a Malaysian movie on Netflix called Sa Balik Baju which is an anthology piece. One is about a laid off journalist who got into live shopping lingerie (as a seller) because she wanted to reach out to more people the way she couldn't in print media about positive body messages. The movie's just so-so, but if it's available in your market it's a pretty entertaining fictional look at the work from the small fishes, not these big glossy accounts that're capturing the attention of Western brands.
posted by cendawanita at 7:33 PM on November 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
I also want to add, there's a generational shift here and not just geography. I saw it first via fandom, but what I consider to be 'monetizing your life' seems to be the norm now. But the friction is both infrastructural AND cultural. The culture part is the generational - younger people acts like it's a given that a side hustle is necessary. This is a reflection of the economic downturn but also democratization of internet access. Early internet WERE populated by people whose lives were subsidised by other means (actual jobs etc) so a lot of internet activity is performed and presented as a hobby, a pastime, something that runs on gift economy. But more people who are online now aren't just presenting their works 'just to share'. Most of it is just a low-key promotional activity. Even if you're not suited to the whole behaviour, you suck it up, and you add links to your patreon, your ko-fi, your venmo/cashapp.
(There's also just different cultural attitudes about money, period, if I go by earlier AskMes about bicultural wedding norms and the sheer amount of scandalized replies from the Western mefites that Asians would be 'so rude' and ask for money?? Directly?? The nerve!)
The second is infrastructural, and it goes back to the superapps thing. Part of the cultural hesitation over the explicit monetization what you're doing (instead of just a simple blogpost about this cute cup you got and a shy link with clear indication that it's an affiliate link) is also the friction in having to get the money. You have to use paypal or venmo or whatever, but outside the app. It just feels 'not done' to get money this way. Even if you're just a third-party in this case as a live seller, the friction of the second needed to swap apps/browser window is real.
Like I said, I saw it first in fandom, and quite tellingly in the Chinese media fansubbing community. The norms between the anime fansubbers of the 90s and the 00s and the fansubbers now? Where the norms include explicitly gating the fansubs UNTIL you show proof of purchase of a media you actually can't understand? And an honour system of not providing competing fansubs? There's a cultural exchange between Western pop fandom and Asian fandoms in this regard, I'm sure of it, because it used to be it's enough that I (the fan) pay you (unpaid) attention. Now it's all about performing explicit capitalist support (stream your faves 24/7 when the single drops; buy every brand they promote; watch every show in real time that they're on).
posted by cendawanita at 7:54 PM on November 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
(There's also just different cultural attitudes about money, period, if I go by earlier AskMes about bicultural wedding norms and the sheer amount of scandalized replies from the Western mefites that Asians would be 'so rude' and ask for money?? Directly?? The nerve!)
The second is infrastructural, and it goes back to the superapps thing. Part of the cultural hesitation over the explicit monetization what you're doing (instead of just a simple blogpost about this cute cup you got and a shy link with clear indication that it's an affiliate link) is also the friction in having to get the money. You have to use paypal or venmo or whatever, but outside the app. It just feels 'not done' to get money this way. Even if you're just a third-party in this case as a live seller, the friction of the second needed to swap apps/browser window is real.
Like I said, I saw it first in fandom, and quite tellingly in the Chinese media fansubbing community. The norms between the anime fansubbers of the 90s and the 00s and the fansubbers now? Where the norms include explicitly gating the fansubs UNTIL you show proof of purchase of a media you actually can't understand? And an honour system of not providing competing fansubs? There's a cultural exchange between Western pop fandom and Asian fandoms in this regard, I'm sure of it, because it used to be it's enough that I (the fan) pay you (unpaid) attention. Now it's all about performing explicit capitalist support (stream your faves 24/7 when the single drops; buy every brand they promote; watch every show in real time that they're on).
posted by cendawanita at 7:54 PM on November 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
That Bloomberg video is mind-blowing!
Part of the cultural hesitation over the explicit monetization what you're doing (instead of just a simple blogpost about this cute cup you got and a shy link with clear indication that it's an affiliate link) is also the friction in having to get the money. You have to use paypal or venmo or whatever, but outside the app. It just feels 'not done' to get money this way. Even if you're just a third-party in this case as a live seller, the friction of the second needed to swap apps/browser window is real.
At the end of the video they mention Amazon incorporating some selling features in Amazon Live, but it was vague and probably nothing close to what's going on over there. None of the Western stuff seemed actually relevant and their mention sounded perfunctory. Those Chinese shopping screens looked pretty dense with Stuff, which if it's not Bejeweled is probably unlikely to be popular over here, criticized as confusing and busy (damn that was snooty). We'll see! I hope the West can figure out a way to do it. There's gotta be a way to combine boring videochat with amazon affiliate links in an independent way.
posted by rhizome at 1:26 AM on November 17, 2021
Part of the cultural hesitation over the explicit monetization what you're doing (instead of just a simple blogpost about this cute cup you got and a shy link with clear indication that it's an affiliate link) is also the friction in having to get the money. You have to use paypal or venmo or whatever, but outside the app. It just feels 'not done' to get money this way. Even if you're just a third-party in this case as a live seller, the friction of the second needed to swap apps/browser window is real.
At the end of the video they mention Amazon incorporating some selling features in Amazon Live, but it was vague and probably nothing close to what's going on over there. None of the Western stuff seemed actually relevant and their mention sounded perfunctory. Those Chinese shopping screens looked pretty dense with Stuff, which if it's not Bejeweled is probably unlikely to be popular over here, criticized as confusing and busy (damn that was snooty). We'll see! I hope the West can figure out a way to do it. There's gotta be a way to combine boring videochat with amazon affiliate links in an independent way.
posted by rhizome at 1:26 AM on November 17, 2021
Shira Ovide of the NYT has a very brief newsletter about the phenomenon that’s chock-full of links to related stories: “Why the Internet Is Turning Into QVC”
posted by Going To Maine at 1:52 PM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Going To Maine at 1:52 PM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
I have a non-rigorous semi-General Theory of the Internet that says we keep getting old business models reimplemented online portrayed as the True Promise of the internet because most of the people in management or other decision-making positions went to college when those models were the only thing you had to be taught. YouTube et al are commercial-interrupt oriented for monetization because the people who set those models into motion got their Mass Media, Radio TV Film, Marketing, Advertising, and Business Administration degrees before 1995 (and really probably everybody before 2005). Viable Internet Business is always defined in those historical terms, it is the discourse.
I'm optimistic about the possibilities of Live Shopping, but at the same time, for the above reasons I expect it to fail in the West. Too much territory-protection, zero-sum marketing mentalities, and plain old greed. That's our discourse.
posted by rhizome at 3:03 PM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm optimistic about the possibilities of Live Shopping, but at the same time, for the above reasons I expect it to fail in the West. Too much territory-protection, zero-sum marketing mentalities, and plain old greed. That's our discourse.
posted by rhizome at 3:03 PM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
The word is 'serendipity' and I really miss it. Thank goodness there are sti decent thrift stores in the dc burbs.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:43 AM on November 18, 2021
posted by aspersioncast at 10:43 AM on November 18, 2021
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