"A person cannot consent to what amounts to fraud and torture"
December 8, 2021 4:17 AM Subscribe
Bill C-4 will make conversion therapy illegal in Canada once the formality of royal assent has been completed. After a couple of earlier failures to get the bill through Parliament and some intra-party strong-arming by Conservative leader Erin O'Toole, it passed both the House and the Senate with unanimous consent. Bill C-4 goes beyond the government’s previous attempts at a ban by making it a crime to make anyone undergo conversion therapy, regardless if they consent.
That was a key demand from survivors and advocates, who said the government’s previous bills still allowed for conversion therapy to be provided to adults who consented. Advocates have said a person cannot consent to what amounts to fraud and torture.
Like the previous bills, C-4 also makes it a crime to remove a child from Canada for the purpose of conversion therapy, promote or advertise the practice, and receive financial “or other material benefit” from providing conversion therapy.
It also allows courts to order that advertisements for conversion therapy be removed.
Social conservatives will still subject their children to conversion therapy, but under the veneer of church camps, wellness retreats, therapy, etc. The next legal fight is going to be waged around what counts as conversion therapy when it's not being openly called that
posted by thecjm at 7:02 AM on December 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by thecjm at 7:02 AM on December 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
You don't often see unanimity in Canada's Parliament. Let's take a moment to enjoy a spot of good news.
posted by elkevelvet at 7:21 AM on December 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 7:21 AM on December 8, 2021 [13 favorites]
Thecjm is making a very good point - there are tons of good laws on the books that do little to no good due to poor enforcement. Still, a step in the right direction and a rare moment of ethical action from the conservative party.
posted by LegallyBread at 7:36 AM on December 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by LegallyBread at 7:36 AM on December 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
nubs: I was really, really shocked that the Cons voted in favour; I suspect that the rift between the Red Tories and the social conservatives is only deepened by this in in the end
It feels like O'Toole has either blown up the party with this or gotten a Stephen-Harper-like keep-your-mouth-shut grip on it. I guess time will tell.
Either way, a positive step to recognize the reality of something that has hurt a lot of people.
posted by clawsoon at 8:04 AM on December 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
It feels like O'Toole has either blown up the party with this or gotten a Stephen-Harper-like keep-your-mouth-shut grip on it. I guess time will tell.
Either way, a positive step to recognize the reality of something that has hurt a lot of people.
posted by clawsoon at 8:04 AM on December 8, 2021 [3 favorites]
there are tons of good laws on the books that do little to no good due to poor enforcement
Is this one of those instances where the court will have to make an is-it-or-isn't-it decision when someone brings a case related to bible camp crypto conversion therapy? That could decide whether the law has any real force, or is just so much paper, no?
posted by klanawa at 9:59 AM on December 8, 2021
Is this one of those instances where the court will have to make an is-it-or-isn't-it decision when someone brings a case related to bible camp crypto conversion therapy? That could decide whether the law has any real force, or is just so much paper, no?
posted by klanawa at 9:59 AM on December 8, 2021
It feels like O'Toole has either blown up the party with this or gotten a Stephen-Harper-like keep-your-mouth-shut grip on it. I guess time will tell.
There's a lot of disgruntled people on the left who are sick of the Liberals posturing while doing nothing and the NDP basically saying nothing about their BC branch brutalizing the indigenous population. If the conservatives can keep their batshittery under wraps until the next election they probably think enough lefties will feel safe enough to end up staying home in disgust to return the conservatives to power. I'm pretty sure O'Toole has figured this out and is just telling everyone to shut the fuck up until after the election.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 10:53 AM on December 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
There's a lot of disgruntled people on the left who are sick of the Liberals posturing while doing nothing and the NDP basically saying nothing about their BC branch brutalizing the indigenous population. If the conservatives can keep their batshittery under wraps until the next election they probably think enough lefties will feel safe enough to end up staying home in disgust to return the conservatives to power. I'm pretty sure O'Toole has figured this out and is just telling everyone to shut the fuck up until after the election.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 10:53 AM on December 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
Proper.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 12:11 PM on December 8, 2021
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 12:11 PM on December 8, 2021
If the conservatives can keep their batshittery under wraps
The thing is we've had 2 elections where they've clearly shown that they cannot. Harper's super power was being able to keep that crowd under control and this is a power that his replacements do not have. It is a moot point anyways as O'Toole likely won't make it to the next election regardless. When Trudeau inevitably steps down as leader after winning the next election with a minority government (I think it is extremely unlikely for any of the parties to get a majority in the current state they are in), depending on who the Liberals have as their new leader, the Tories then may stand a chance then. But the knives are out for O'Toole and the more socially conservative supporters, who are increasingly the ones pulling the strings, will likely push for a leader that represents their fringe concerns. The more they focus on their divisive talking points, which are increasingly minority views in the rest of Canada, their hyper regional focus on the Prairies and devotion to the tar sands the more they will not align as a party for the population base of Quebec and Ontario which they absolutely need to win a minority.
posted by Ashwagandha at 1:26 PM on December 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
The thing is we've had 2 elections where they've clearly shown that they cannot. Harper's super power was being able to keep that crowd under control and this is a power that his replacements do not have. It is a moot point anyways as O'Toole likely won't make it to the next election regardless. When Trudeau inevitably steps down as leader after winning the next election with a minority government (I think it is extremely unlikely for any of the parties to get a majority in the current state they are in), depending on who the Liberals have as their new leader, the Tories then may stand a chance then. But the knives are out for O'Toole and the more socially conservative supporters, who are increasingly the ones pulling the strings, will likely push for a leader that represents their fringe concerns. The more they focus on their divisive talking points, which are increasingly minority views in the rest of Canada, their hyper regional focus on the Prairies and devotion to the tar sands the more they will not align as a party for the population base of Quebec and Ontario which they absolutely need to win a minority.
posted by Ashwagandha at 1:26 PM on December 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Looks like the PPC remains committed to being dickheads.
I mean, uh, protecting women, children, gays and lesbians from radical trans activists. How strong and manly of them.
posted by clawsoon at 2:02 PM on December 9, 2021
I mean, uh, protecting women, children, gays and lesbians from radical trans activists. How strong and manly of them.
posted by clawsoon at 2:02 PM on December 9, 2021
The more they focus on their divisive talking points, which are increasingly minority views in the rest of Canada, their hyper regional focus on the Prairies and devotion to the tar sands the more they will not align as a party for the population base of Quebec and Ontario which they absolutely need to win a minority.
From where I sit it seems that it all comes down to the left being kingmakers in this election and neither party wanting to accept it. The NDP won't trash the BC branch come hell or high water, while the Liberals in fucking government won't call off the RCMP. Meanwhile the left are left shrugging their shoulders because it doesn't matter who they vote for, enforcing white hegemony is the order of the day no matter how many days of fucking mourning for dead indigenous kids killed by colonialism. Look at all the shit going down with the NDP in the Scarborough riding. To me it's basically a microcosm of all that's wrong in Canadian politics.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 7:15 AM on December 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
From where I sit it seems that it all comes down to the left being kingmakers in this election and neither party wanting to accept it. The NDP won't trash the BC branch come hell or high water, while the Liberals in fucking government won't call off the RCMP. Meanwhile the left are left shrugging their shoulders because it doesn't matter who they vote for, enforcing white hegemony is the order of the day no matter how many days of fucking mourning for dead indigenous kids killed by colonialism. Look at all the shit going down with the NDP in the Scarborough riding. To me it's basically a microcosm of all that's wrong in Canadian politics.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 7:15 AM on December 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
I try to keep up with the political news, but I still miss things. What's going on with the NDP in Scarborough?
Honestly, I think O'Toole is doing a better job of riding herd on his members that he gets credit for. People who are against him, are being dealt with, even if indirectly, all while he's playing the good guy. It's a nice bit of dancing and weaving.
posted by sardonyx at 11:13 AM on December 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
Honestly, I think O'Toole is doing a better job of riding herd on his members that he gets credit for. People who are against him, are being dealt with, even if indirectly, all while he's playing the good guy. It's a nice bit of dancing and weaving.
posted by sardonyx at 11:13 AM on December 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
I try to keep up with the political news, but I still miss things. What's going on with the NDP in Scarborough?
The local rank and file of the party had been coalescing around D. Tyler Robinson as the candidate for Scarborough Central. Neethan Shan basically parachuted himself into the riding (which he doesn't even live in), barely bothered to show up to NDP meetings, had Robinson barred from accessing the tools necessary to contact the voters in the primary, and had the party apparatus basically hold the BIPOC victory fund over their head like the sword of Damocles.
Neethan Shan being a guy who has used the words "the blacks" unironically and assigned the black history month work to the black female executives because they were black.
A fair amount of the black community in Scarborough is pissed and a couple have quit the party over it.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 2:04 PM on December 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
The local rank and file of the party had been coalescing around D. Tyler Robinson as the candidate for Scarborough Central. Neethan Shan basically parachuted himself into the riding (which he doesn't even live in), barely bothered to show up to NDP meetings, had Robinson barred from accessing the tools necessary to contact the voters in the primary, and had the party apparatus basically hold the BIPOC victory fund over their head like the sword of Damocles.
Neethan Shan being a guy who has used the words "the blacks" unironically and assigned the black history month work to the black female executives because they were black.
A fair amount of the black community in Scarborough is pissed and a couple have quit the party over it.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 2:04 PM on December 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
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posted by nubs at 6:56 AM on December 8, 2021 [6 favorites]