The Einstein of Palmistry
December 28, 2021 1:40 PM Subscribe
Christmas movie season may be coming to an end, but watching movies of sheer romantic exuberance needn't be as Tollywood has you covered. The trailer for the upcoming release Radhe Shyam promises all that and then a bit more. (The trailer is in Telugu with some English, but the sheer excess of it speaks for itself.)
If romance isn't your thing, then maybe check out the trailer for the upcoming RRR, S.S. Rajamouli's first movie since the Bāhubali films. (The trailer is also mostly in Telugu, but you should get the gist of it without much problem.)
If romance isn't your thing, then maybe check out the trailer for the upcoming RRR, S.S. Rajamouli's first movie since the Bāhubali films. (The trailer is also mostly in Telugu, but you should get the gist of it without much problem.)
What did I just watch? There is this subtle patina of unreality to it. The color, the content… But… It definitely caught my interest. What happened?
posted by njohnson23 at 4:28 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 4:28 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
Well, that was more intense than many full movies. The vibrant colours and visual quality are insane!
posted by greenhornet at 4:52 PM on December 28, 2021
posted by greenhornet at 4:52 PM on December 28, 2021
njohnson23: You might have been uncanny valley-ed by the enormous amount of almost good CGI.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 4:55 PM on December 28, 2021
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 4:55 PM on December 28, 2021
Each of those trailers packs at least half a dozen plots into one; the audience gets great value for their money. Are there musical numbers, as well? Thanks for sharing, gusottertrout!
posted by Atrahasis at 4:57 PM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Atrahasis at 4:57 PM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
Joakim - Actually, I had the feeling I was watching something that was trying to look like CGI, kind of like the opposite of uncanny valley.
posted by njohnson23 at 5:51 PM on December 28, 2021
posted by njohnson23 at 5:51 PM on December 28, 2021
That RRR trailer gave us some bad vibes - all of the violence is extremely cartoony and over the top EXCEPT the two scenes of women being assaulted. Suddenly the violence got a lot more realistic.
posted by thecjm at 7:26 PM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by thecjm at 7:26 PM on December 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
Genre? Who cares! Pour them all in the punch and garnish with dance numbers, it’s fabulous.
Also: “flirtationship” is a great word.
posted by sixswitch at 8:29 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
Also: “flirtationship” is a great word.
posted by sixswitch at 8:29 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
So a quick search for context tells me that Telugu is the fourth most frequently spoken language in India, associated with the Telugu people in southeastern India. Are there other Bollywood films in Telugu, or is this a relatively new thing? Is there a good source for background on the directors of the films whose trailers are linked? Other context on the films, actors, etc.? Based on thecjm‘s comment I haven’t watched the second trailer and probably won’t, but the first one is definitely beautiful. And clearly full of symbolism that I don’t understand the significance of. I know that the specific hand positions and other aspects of dance in eg. Bollywood movies in general carry lots of meaning (though I don’t yet know what the meaning is). Is there a similar common set of symbology to any of the other aspects of cinematography in Bollywood films in general or Tollywood films in particular? (Eg. I’m vaguely aware that Western cinema has its own traditions along these lines, with newer films referring back to classic films in particular ways that one doesn’t need to know to enjoy a movie but that can add layers of depth and meaning when done well by a good filmmaker. The first trailer looks like it may be in that sort of category of film, but for Bollywood rather than Hollywood?)
posted by eviemath at 8:07 AM on December 29, 2021
posted by eviemath at 8:07 AM on December 29, 2021
Are there other Bollywood films in Telugu, or is this a relatively new thing?
I absolutely loved the Telugu film Baahubali - - an epic done right!
(It is really all one movie, but released in two parts: The Beginning (2015) and The Conclusion (2017). Here is the original trailer.)
posted by fairmettle at 9:53 AM on December 29, 2021
I absolutely loved the Telugu film Baahubali - - an epic done right!
(It is really all one movie, but released in two parts: The Beginning (2015) and The Conclusion (2017). Here is the original trailer.)
posted by fairmettle at 9:53 AM on December 29, 2021
The emotional trajectory of this is giving me Fanaa vibes!
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 11:46 AM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 11:46 AM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
thecjm, I hadn't watched the RRR trailer until now - holy shit are you on point. Sobering to think about this more generally. I know that I often feel shocked by violence against women and children in movies: a big part of this is that what's shown is often realistic, in as far as types of violence that are prevalent in the real world for real women and children. There are moments when violence against men feels shocking like this also, but I haven't thought about how I may feel that less often because violence against/between men is so frequently portrayed as Heroic Battle. Thanks for the food for thought.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 11:59 AM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 11:59 AM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
So a quick search for context tells me that Telugu is the fourth most frequently spoken language in India, associated with the Telugu people in southeastern India. Are there other Bollywood films in Telugu, or is this a relatively new thing? Is there a good source for background on the directors of the films whose trailers are linked?
Definitely not a new thing and not really "Bollywood", though all movies from India often get labeled as such outside the country. Telugu films are generally from "Tollywood" the film industry based in Hyderabad and has been producing films roughly as long as the Hindi language center "Bollywood" based in Mumbai. Other languages/locales also have film produced, the Tamil "Kollywood" being maybe the next best known, but there's also Kannada, Malayalam, Bengali films and so on.
But Tollywood has really come into their own as a major film making center in the post 90's era, where before that Bollywood was seen as the more dominant, in recent history Tollywood has become every bit as notable or more to the larger film world for some of the directors and stars that have come from there and for developing higher levels of craft/artistry on the production end.
The director of Radhe Shyam is Radha Krishna Kumar and a relative newcomer, having only directed one film prior to this, Jil, which was a hit but know nothing about myself. SS Rajamouli directed RRR and he's a major director with some of his movies getting worldwide notice for their originality and imaginative style. Baahubali's been mentioned but is hardly the only other of his movies worth looking up. Eega, where a murdered man seeks vengeance in his reincarnated form as a housefly, is maybe the easiest to get for anyone, but the others I've seen are pretty great as well, but do sometimes have an occasional reference that is more India specific. RRR is based on two real historical figures, Alluri Sitarama Raju and Komaram Bheem who lived at the same time and would gain renown for fighting against oppression, the former against the British and the latter against the Nizam. The movie imagines a meet up in the time before they achieved their fame where they join together to fight.
Regarding the violence in that second trailer, I think it's entirely fair to opt out from wanting to see that kind of depiction, but I think the intent is sorta the opposite of the suggestion, whether it works for someone or not. The choice to show violence against women and children as more "realistic" and brutal is to keep it from being "fun" for the audience as opposed to that where an oppressor is attacked. In Indian cinema and in that of some other countries the way violence is filmed can be quite different than US cinema for varying within the film from grim to exciting and how that is understood as coming from a separate film history of sorts. But that of course doesn't mean anyone here has to accept it if they find it troublesome.
posted by gusottertrout at 12:49 PM on December 29, 2021 [5 favorites]
Definitely not a new thing and not really "Bollywood", though all movies from India often get labeled as such outside the country. Telugu films are generally from "Tollywood" the film industry based in Hyderabad and has been producing films roughly as long as the Hindi language center "Bollywood" based in Mumbai. Other languages/locales also have film produced, the Tamil "Kollywood" being maybe the next best known, but there's also Kannada, Malayalam, Bengali films and so on.
But Tollywood has really come into their own as a major film making center in the post 90's era, where before that Bollywood was seen as the more dominant, in recent history Tollywood has become every bit as notable or more to the larger film world for some of the directors and stars that have come from there and for developing higher levels of craft/artistry on the production end.
The director of Radhe Shyam is Radha Krishna Kumar and a relative newcomer, having only directed one film prior to this, Jil, which was a hit but know nothing about myself. SS Rajamouli directed RRR and he's a major director with some of his movies getting worldwide notice for their originality and imaginative style. Baahubali's been mentioned but is hardly the only other of his movies worth looking up. Eega, where a murdered man seeks vengeance in his reincarnated form as a housefly, is maybe the easiest to get for anyone, but the others I've seen are pretty great as well, but do sometimes have an occasional reference that is more India specific. RRR is based on two real historical figures, Alluri Sitarama Raju and Komaram Bheem who lived at the same time and would gain renown for fighting against oppression, the former against the British and the latter against the Nizam. The movie imagines a meet up in the time before they achieved their fame where they join together to fight.
Regarding the violence in that second trailer, I think it's entirely fair to opt out from wanting to see that kind of depiction, but I think the intent is sorta the opposite of the suggestion, whether it works for someone or not. The choice to show violence against women and children as more "realistic" and brutal is to keep it from being "fun" for the audience as opposed to that where an oppressor is attacked. In Indian cinema and in that of some other countries the way violence is filmed can be quite different than US cinema for varying within the film from grim to exciting and how that is understood as coming from a separate film history of sorts. But that of course doesn't mean anyone here has to accept it if they find it troublesome.
posted by gusottertrout at 12:49 PM on December 29, 2021 [5 favorites]
Oh, it's also worth noting that due to the wide variety of languages, some films, like RRR, are shot in multiple languages at once, when the demand is expected in different centers, so RRR was shot in both Telugu and Hindi, while others can get multiple "remakes" in different languages if the movie proves to be a hit, sometimes even up to nine different remade versions or some where they'll shoot the movie with different sets of actors for different markets as opposed to the more common dubbing for mild hits to play in the various markets. It's all pretty complicated with such a diverse audience.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:16 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by gusottertrout at 1:16 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
Thanks for the background! And for gently clearing up my confusion and ignorance in not knowing about the different film centres or threads. That was pretty Western/colonialist of me; I apologize. Looks like I have a lot of interesting new search terms to go poke around with to learn more!
posted by eviemath at 2:46 PM on December 29, 2021
posted by eviemath at 2:46 PM on December 29, 2021
gusottertrout, your point about the choice of how to depict violence is very well taken. Thanks also for the history background for RRR!
Showing scenes of violence against women/children is not something I think is inherently troublesome - I just got to thinking how it often seems intended to communicate the kind of seriousness you describe, and, complementarily, how infrequently I see filmmakers choose to portray “unfun” violence against men. For example, I wondered whether I would react with the same level of flinch to those two tiny clips in the RRR trailer if they showed the same violence being inflicted on male characters - might my brain flinch less because I imagine those male characters might get to avenge themselves in Heroic Battle? Thoughts to chew on and learn more about.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 4:03 PM on December 29, 2021
Showing scenes of violence against women/children is not something I think is inherently troublesome - I just got to thinking how it often seems intended to communicate the kind of seriousness you describe, and, complementarily, how infrequently I see filmmakers choose to portray “unfun” violence against men. For example, I wondered whether I would react with the same level of flinch to those two tiny clips in the RRR trailer if they showed the same violence being inflicted on male characters - might my brain flinch less because I imagine those male characters might get to avenge themselves in Heroic Battle? Thoughts to chew on and learn more about.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 4:03 PM on December 29, 2021
It really is an interesting question because it isn't something really discussed much exactly, at least from what I can tell being an outsider to the various film cultures beyond the US. But it does often encompass how violence is handled against men too, just not to the same degree and all of it is potentially problematic depending on how one might frame questions about the choices.
In Indian film, given the long running times and insertions of musical numbers as part of the movie/music industry, the two historically being completely intertwined, the so-called Masala movie came to be, where a movie might basically cover a wide range of genres within a single feature, comedy, romance, action, musical, and others, shifting tone within the film as each element came to the fore, so a movie might start out as a light comedic romance, then after the intermission, shift to violent action before kinda tying up all the various strands into some sort of ending. At its best this can be really interesting and even carry along audiences not used to the method, but for other films it can really throw off those same audiences for the wild shifts in tone and has led to many considering commercial Indian filmmaking as sub-par for not fitting the more dominant US conventional style.
It is partly that difference that got me interested in Indian filmmaking, because it often eschews convention as we typically might think of it and how it shares some resemblance to movies made in the 1930s here in the US, when genres hadn't fully hardened into their current form and the music industry was more dependent on movies than it would later become. In India there was virtually no distinction between the movie and music industries at all, music was sold through movies and could effectively finance a film getting made just to have a way to promote the songs in some cases. Even though the singers and composers weren't seen, the actors would lip synch and dance to the songs, the music would sell from that exposure, maintaining something closer to a tin pan alley concept of popular music than what happened in the West.
That helped create the tonal shifts, where the action sold the film, but the romance sold the song and once you start shifting tone, then shifting the way the violence is filmed in different parts of the film makes more sense I think. There was a somewhat analogous trend in Hong Kong filmmaking for different reasons, where the martial arts films would sometimes have both "fun" violence and brutal violence mixed to capture different moods or meaning for the scenes even when the whole film was action oriented. It too can be pretty jarring at times, even when you know it's a thing, but obviously some people really come to terms with it and appreciate that element. It's a difference in convention that can carry different associations depending on where you come from in viewing the films.
One of the reasons I posted the trailers, besides enjoying them, is that there is this weird blind spot for commercial filmmaking from outside the US and England, where people might be more likely to be able to name "arthouse" movies from other countries than the popular movies aimed at wide audiences, but the latter informs the former and in today's world seems more available to be seen and appreciated. The Korean film industry has been getting some notice in that regard and others could follow so getting to know something about them seems worthwhile, even if just to see what else exists beyond Hollywood's borders.
posted by gusottertrout at 4:47 PM on December 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
In Indian film, given the long running times and insertions of musical numbers as part of the movie/music industry, the two historically being completely intertwined, the so-called Masala movie came to be, where a movie might basically cover a wide range of genres within a single feature, comedy, romance, action, musical, and others, shifting tone within the film as each element came to the fore, so a movie might start out as a light comedic romance, then after the intermission, shift to violent action before kinda tying up all the various strands into some sort of ending. At its best this can be really interesting and even carry along audiences not used to the method, but for other films it can really throw off those same audiences for the wild shifts in tone and has led to many considering commercial Indian filmmaking as sub-par for not fitting the more dominant US conventional style.
It is partly that difference that got me interested in Indian filmmaking, because it often eschews convention as we typically might think of it and how it shares some resemblance to movies made in the 1930s here in the US, when genres hadn't fully hardened into their current form and the music industry was more dependent on movies than it would later become. In India there was virtually no distinction between the movie and music industries at all, music was sold through movies and could effectively finance a film getting made just to have a way to promote the songs in some cases. Even though the singers and composers weren't seen, the actors would lip synch and dance to the songs, the music would sell from that exposure, maintaining something closer to a tin pan alley concept of popular music than what happened in the West.
That helped create the tonal shifts, where the action sold the film, but the romance sold the song and once you start shifting tone, then shifting the way the violence is filmed in different parts of the film makes more sense I think. There was a somewhat analogous trend in Hong Kong filmmaking for different reasons, where the martial arts films would sometimes have both "fun" violence and brutal violence mixed to capture different moods or meaning for the scenes even when the whole film was action oriented. It too can be pretty jarring at times, even when you know it's a thing, but obviously some people really come to terms with it and appreciate that element. It's a difference in convention that can carry different associations depending on where you come from in viewing the films.
One of the reasons I posted the trailers, besides enjoying them, is that there is this weird blind spot for commercial filmmaking from outside the US and England, where people might be more likely to be able to name "arthouse" movies from other countries than the popular movies aimed at wide audiences, but the latter informs the former and in today's world seems more available to be seen and appreciated. The Korean film industry has been getting some notice in that regard and others could follow so getting to know something about them seems worthwhile, even if just to see what else exists beyond Hollywood's borders.
posted by gusottertrout at 4:47 PM on December 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
Thank you for all of that context, gusottertrout! I’ve never heard the name “masala film”, or the history - the variety and scope of emotions and storylines is something that I’ve loved about many of the contemporary Indian movies I’ve seen. There is so, so much to learn and enjoy in popular culture from other places - what makes people laugh/cry/dance/be transfixed in the ways media transfixes us. Are there any gems you’d recommend, Tollywood, Bollywood, or otherwise?
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 7:48 PM on December 29, 2021
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 7:48 PM on December 29, 2021
This whole conversation is reminding me of a song I discovered when working in East Africa and missing the pop music from South Asia - Tum Jo Aaye, from Once Upon A Time In Mumbai. I’ve never even seen the movie, and the clips accompanying the song suggest that it’s about a rocky relationship between a starlet and a mob boss, but it’s still one of the most beautiful love songs I’ve ever heard.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 7:56 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 7:56 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
There's so many good ones to choose from, both the acclaimed more arty but still commercial Bollywood high points to some more resolutely commercial flicks that haven't yet found their audience and I haven't even seen a huge amount of Indian films so far.
Picking one though I'll stick with some connection to the main link and offer Pournami, which I really dig. It's in Telugu and stars Prabhas, who's also the star of Radhe Shyam and is exactly the kind of film that has a wild shift in tone from the first half to the second. It starts more as a comedy with some promise of romance but hint of mystery as a young girl is pressed upon to continue the family tradition of a dance performed once every twelve years to appease Shiva and prevent drought, the girl, Trisha, disappears for reasons unknown and the tradition is passed on to her sister, Charmy who is not at all prepared and may not be worthy. A mysterious man comes to the household to ostensibly start a "rock and roll" dance studio and butts heads with Charmy in broad comedic fashion before winning her trust, while the second half of the movie reveals the tale of the man and the missing sister in a story of fairly brutal violence as the complicating factor of the landlord's interests in seeing Charmy fail also come to light.
The broad comedy is really broad, slapstick like,and the violence harsh, but the movie tied together by its lovely musical numbers, including a musical fight scene and the climatic dance scene at the end that just kills me every time I think of it. The movie isn't all that well known, though it was a hit when it came out, but I think it's a good example of a mass audience film that could have found an even wider audience. But then I might be weird, so no guarantees I guess. But the link is free on Youtube and has English subs, so maybe worth checking out.
(Here's one song from it if you want a teaser.)
posted by gusottertrout at 8:24 PM on December 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
Picking one though I'll stick with some connection to the main link and offer Pournami, which I really dig. It's in Telugu and stars Prabhas, who's also the star of Radhe Shyam and is exactly the kind of film that has a wild shift in tone from the first half to the second. It starts more as a comedy with some promise of romance but hint of mystery as a young girl is pressed upon to continue the family tradition of a dance performed once every twelve years to appease Shiva and prevent drought, the girl, Trisha, disappears for reasons unknown and the tradition is passed on to her sister, Charmy who is not at all prepared and may not be worthy. A mysterious man comes to the household to ostensibly start a "rock and roll" dance studio and butts heads with Charmy in broad comedic fashion before winning her trust, while the second half of the movie reveals the tale of the man and the missing sister in a story of fairly brutal violence as the complicating factor of the landlord's interests in seeing Charmy fail also come to light.
The broad comedy is really broad, slapstick like,and the violence harsh, but the movie tied together by its lovely musical numbers, including a musical fight scene and the climatic dance scene at the end that just kills me every time I think of it. The movie isn't all that well known, though it was a hit when it came out, but I think it's a good example of a mass audience film that could have found an even wider audience. But then I might be weird, so no guarantees I guess. But the link is free on Youtube and has English subs, so maybe worth checking out.
(Here's one song from it if you want a teaser.)
posted by gusottertrout at 8:24 PM on December 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
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posted by Oyéah at 2:31 PM on December 28, 2021