Wait, what?
January 4, 2022 3:22 AM Subscribe
Yeah, "no worries" is a shorter way of saying "it was but a trifle."
The Banished Words List has become such a cultural phenomenon that comedian George Carlin submitted an entry that made the annals in 1994: “baddaboom, baddabing.”
That's backwards. Everyone knows that one. If these chucklefucks can't even keep their phrases straight, how the hell can they consider themselves the experts in overuse?
posted by explosion at 3:33 AM on January 4, 2022 [15 favorites]
The Banished Words List has become such a cultural phenomenon that comedian George Carlin submitted an entry that made the annals in 1994: “baddaboom, baddabing.”
That's backwards. Everyone knows that one. If these chucklefucks can't even keep their phrases straight, how the hell can they consider themselves the experts in overuse?
posted by explosion at 3:33 AM on January 4, 2022 [15 favorites]
explosion: "That's backwards."
Citation needed
posted by chavenet at 3:37 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Citation needed
posted by chavenet at 3:37 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I agree that most of these are overused, but the explanations are often bizarre. Annoying as it is “asking for a friend” isn’t “a coy attempt to deter self-identification” but a coy admission. And I’m afraid “you’re on mute” is kind of necessary, given the variety of settings different conferencing software use and the need to mute yourself when not speaking.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:38 AM on January 4, 2022 [19 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:38 AM on January 4, 2022 [19 favorites]
All of their issues with "wait, what?" can be solved by spelling out what it means for them:
“Pardon me a moment, but I must stop you in your current explanation or story, in order to ask that you clarify the obvious glaring issue or outrageous statement you just made".
But you know, "wait, what?" is more concise, and everyone other than these chuckleheads understands it just fine. You don't want to wait, indeed.
posted by Dysk at 3:44 AM on January 4, 2022 [30 favorites]
“Pardon me a moment, but I must stop you in your current explanation or story, in order to ask that you clarify the obvious glaring issue or outrageous statement you just made".
But you know, "wait, what?" is more concise, and everyone other than these chuckleheads understands it just fine. You don't want to wait, indeed.
posted by Dysk at 3:44 AM on January 4, 2022 [30 favorites]
Citation needed
I guess the question then is when did it invert, and how did they miss that?
Because these days, it's definitely "bada bing bada boom".
posted by explosion at 3:44 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I guess the question then is when did it invert, and how did they miss that?
Because these days, it's definitely "bada bing bada boom".
posted by explosion at 3:44 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
To an Australian, that is a declaration of war.
posted by acb at 3:51 AM on January 4, 2022 [32 favorites]
posted by acb at 3:51 AM on January 4, 2022 [32 favorites]
English, somebody doin it wrong
posted by Jacen at 3:54 AM on January 4, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by Jacen at 3:54 AM on January 4, 2022 [12 favorites]
Year 2101 banished words list:
- What you say?
- All your base are belong to us.
- For great justice
If nobody puts Baby in the corner then certainly nobody puts Australian in the linguistic naughty corner.
posted by otherchaz at 4:07 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by otherchaz at 4:07 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Year 2101 banished words list:
Year 2101 set words list up the bomb:
posted by otherchaz at 4:12 AM on January 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
Year 2101 set words list up the bomb:
posted by otherchaz at 4:12 AM on January 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
English, somebody doin it wrong
The question is, who? The people using the words, the people complaining about them, or the creators of the list? Looking back over previous years, there is a mix of:
1. catchphrases-of-the-moment
2. business speak
3. slightly ornamental phrases
4. things “the kids” are saying
5. frequent phrases tied to current events
While most of the examples are correctly identified as overused, which is a good reason for anything to be pointed out, really only category 2 and 3 are real problems, because they usually are deployed to cover up a lack of content. Category 1 is definitely annoying, but railing against them are a waste of breath; yes, “Where’s the beef?” was pretty dumb, but it eventually went away, like “Qwoz!” before it. Category 5 is kind of bizarre; yes, there are massive supply chain issues because corporate profit-seeking has left us all in jeopardy. Shouldn’t we talk about it? “Supply chains! What can you do, right?” is a problem, but not the words themselves. Category 4 might as well be replaced with “we are only and resent that everything isn’t for us.” Yes, the slang of the young is super-dumb, but the proper response is to roll your aged eyeballs at them as we have done at least since the founding of Ur.
TL; DR: This is a silly list and deserves to be made fun of in a lighthearted way; I hope that was your intent, chavenet. If so, well played. (If not, I guess I’m the asshole, sorry.)
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:32 AM on January 4, 2022 [15 favorites]
The question is, who? The people using the words, the people complaining about them, or the creators of the list? Looking back over previous years, there is a mix of:
1. catchphrases-of-the-moment
2. business speak
3. slightly ornamental phrases
4. things “the kids” are saying
5. frequent phrases tied to current events
While most of the examples are correctly identified as overused, which is a good reason for anything to be pointed out, really only category 2 and 3 are real problems, because they usually are deployed to cover up a lack of content. Category 1 is definitely annoying, but railing against them are a waste of breath; yes, “Where’s the beef?” was pretty dumb, but it eventually went away, like “Qwoz!” before it. Category 5 is kind of bizarre; yes, there are massive supply chain issues because corporate profit-seeking has left us all in jeopardy. Shouldn’t we talk about it? “Supply chains! What can you do, right?” is a problem, but not the words themselves. Category 4 might as well be replaced with “we are only and resent that everything isn’t for us.” Yes, the slang of the young is super-dumb, but the proper response is to roll your aged eyeballs at them as we have done at least since the founding of Ur.
TL; DR: This is a silly list and deserves to be made fun of in a lighthearted way; I hope that was your intent, chavenet. If so, well played. (If not, I guess I’m the asshole, sorry.)
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:32 AM on January 4, 2022 [15 favorites]
Grr. That should be “we are old and” not “we are only and.” If only there was a longer edit window (note: this is a bad idea, I should be more careful).
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:48 AM on January 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:48 AM on January 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
“The description given in the list misunderstands the phrase’s usage, at least in Australian English,” Sadow says. “In Australian English, although it is used in the same place as ‘you’re welcome’, the meaning is quite different.”Yeah, nah.
“It is the speaker saying that they feel ‘no worries’, and that they think the listener should have ’no worries’.”
posted by flabdablet at 4:58 AM on January 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
So, going forward....
posted by BWA at 5:06 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by BWA at 5:06 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
nobody puts Australian in the linguistic naughty corner.
Dilligaf
posted by flabdablet at 5:10 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Dilligaf
posted by flabdablet at 5:10 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
ANECDATA
posted by thelonius at 5:31 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by thelonius at 5:31 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yeah, nah.
I think the Graun has somehow mangled Sadow's commentary: she (an Australian and linguist) appears to be paraphrasing the definition in the list, not offering her own definition? I can't make sense of the article otherwise, unless there's something else it is or I am missing.
posted by howfar at 5:48 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think the Graun has somehow mangled Sadow's commentary: she (an Australian and linguist) appears to be paraphrasing the definition in the list, not offering her own definition? I can't make sense of the article otherwise, unless there's something else it is or I am missing.
posted by howfar at 5:48 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I swear these used to be called “forbidden words.”
Is “forbidden” one of the words they banished in a previous year?
posted by Mister Moofoo at 5:52 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Is “forbidden” one of the words they banished in a previous year?
posted by Mister Moofoo at 5:52 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I work in a business that is overwrought with business-speak. If I hear one more sales rep tell a client that the engineer is going to do a deeper dive on the product I'm taking a hostage.
That phrase just kills me.
posted by Thistledown at 6:04 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
That phrase just kills me.
posted by Thistledown at 6:04 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
Given the nature of the words and phrases on the list, I'm surprised "stay safe" didn't make the cut when "no worries" did.
I have nothing against "stay safe" and I've used it quite frequently during the pandemic. I'm just getting a little tired of falling back on it when "have a good day" seems a little too brutal.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:05 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
I have nothing against "stay safe" and I've used it quite frequently during the pandemic. I'm just getting a little tired of falling back on it when "have a good day" seems a little too brutal.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:05 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
I see the #1 banished word of 2021 was “COVID-19.” How did that work out for them?
posted by ejs at 6:07 AM on January 4, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by ejs at 6:07 AM on January 4, 2022 [10 favorites]
Did "stay classy" get banished in a previous year?
I'm sure "stay fresh, cheese bags" will get its turn one of these years.
posted by acb at 6:15 AM on January 4, 2022 [14 favorites]
I'm sure "stay fresh, cheese bags" will get its turn one of these years.
posted by acb at 6:15 AM on January 4, 2022 [14 favorites]
My ongoing pet peeve at the moment is "learnings," as in "Join this zoom later where we will share key learnings."
seethe
posted by jquinby at 6:22 AM on January 4, 2022 [40 favorites]
seethe
posted by jquinby at 6:22 AM on January 4, 2022 [40 favorites]
Haven't we arrived at the future where "smell you later" replaces "goodbye" yet?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:25 AM on January 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:25 AM on January 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
the proper response is to roll your aged eyeballs at them
Unrelated side note: according to the eye doctor at my last appointment, our eyes become less flexible/more rigid as we age. Maybe cultural inflexibility/inability to learn and adapt ages one prematurely to the point that one literally can’t roll one’s eyes?
Phrases or turns of speech I, personally, think are overused:
Unrelated side note: according to the eye doctor at my last appointment, our eyes become less flexible/more rigid as we age. Maybe cultural inflexibility/inability to learn and adapt ages one prematurely to the point that one literally can’t roll one’s eyes?
Phrases or turns of speech I, personally, think are overused:
- Over-generalization/linguistically imposing one’s own perspective or desires as hegemonic. Eg. “[X] is cancelled” when one means “I refuse to have anything to do with [X] anymore”, or calling a list of words that one’s particular friend group dislikes “banished words”.
- “That being said” is the one item on the list I strongly agree is overused and annoyingly so. I started seeing it more frequently in students’ writing a few years ago. I don’t know where they got it from or why they don’t have better transitions in their linguistic toolbox. But it is related to other overused words and phrases that contradict traditional grammatical rules (but that are not slang or catchphrases of the moment - excellent taxonomy, GenjiandProust, thanks, and I completely agree with your assessment of which categories are worth getting annoyed about or upset over).
If we're doing business-speak that should be banished:
No bad dogs
True back
Myself instead of I. The longer word has to be the most correct word, right? Wrong!
posted by emelenjr at 6:29 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
No bad dogs
True back
Myself instead of I. The longer word has to be the most correct word, right? Wrong!
posted by emelenjr at 6:29 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
I think the authors of the piece are at best
being annoyingly proscriptive. Which has been a thing for a while now. By which I mean, it wasn't always a thing. When I was a younger adult (the 1980s) and first really feeling I (and my peers) might somehow be capable of having an impact on the world, the culture -- I'm pretty sure we didn't much lean toward being proscriptive, laying down the law, telling people they weren't just wrong about something in so many words, but making it official that such wrongness would no longer be tolerated. Oh, we'd ridicule or be sarcastic or just laugh at you, but this idea of saying loud and proud: here's a new rule, this (thing that annoys me/us) is no longer to be tolerated, THESE WORDS ARE NOW BANISHED ...
Well, that just sounded like a parent or teacher or priest or coach or cop or or boss or politician throwing their weight around. Who wanted to be like that?
I guess it's a social media thing.
posted by philip-random at 6:29 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
being annoyingly proscriptive. Which has been a thing for a while now. By which I mean, it wasn't always a thing. When I was a younger adult (the 1980s) and first really feeling I (and my peers) might somehow be capable of having an impact on the world, the culture -- I'm pretty sure we didn't much lean toward being proscriptive, laying down the law, telling people they weren't just wrong about something in so many words, but making it official that such wrongness would no longer be tolerated. Oh, we'd ridicule or be sarcastic or just laugh at you, but this idea of saying loud and proud: here's a new rule, this (thing that annoys me/us) is no longer to be tolerated, THESE WORDS ARE NOW BANISHED ...
Well, that just sounded like a parent or teacher or priest or coach or cop or or boss or politician throwing their weight around. Who wanted to be like that?
I guess it's a social media thing.
posted by philip-random at 6:29 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
“Unpack.” “Unpack.” “Unpack.”
I write it three times because that’s how much I hate it.
That term is brought to you by the socio/psycho community (the usual suspects!) not to help people, but to bug ME.
“Gee, I’ve got to unpack this issue, peel away the layers, and work through it.”
I swear to Christ, if you talk like this (like a tilted-headed social worker) I’m coming to get you.
In the same vein:
A problem is a problem and a goddamned pain in the ass, not a “challenge.”
posted by BostonTerrier at 6:30 AM on January 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
I write it three times because that’s how much I hate it.
That term is brought to you by the socio/psycho community (the usual suspects!) not to help people, but to bug ME.
“Gee, I’ve got to unpack this issue, peel away the layers, and work through it.”
I swear to Christ, if you talk like this (like a tilted-headed social worker) I’m coming to get you.
In the same vein:
A problem is a problem and a goddamned pain in the ass, not a “challenge.”
posted by BostonTerrier at 6:30 AM on January 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
I guess it's a social media thing.
I realize these banished lists have been around since the 70s, but trust me, you never really heard about it back then.
posted by philip-random at 6:32 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I realize these banished lists have been around since the 70s, but trust me, you never really heard about it back then.
posted by philip-random at 6:32 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
What does “open the kimono” mean? (Do I even want to know? I probably don’t.) I’ve never even heard it before (probably because it sounds like it’s likely simultaneously sexist and racist and annoying business-speak, and all of the people I talk to or things I read regularly tend to avoid at least one of those attributes, thankfully).
posted by eviemath at 6:38 AM on January 4, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 6:38 AM on January 4, 2022 [13 favorites]
@ RonButNotStupid, I was gobsmacked (careful, now...) when The Good Place brought back "Take it sleazy."
And a very hearty YES to 'learnings' @ jquinby. I'm sure there is some very precise reason why 'lessons' isn't perfect, but ooooooof.
Among the things that figuratively kill me, I can't wave a stick at Hacker News without hitting 'anti-pattern' (what it describes is indeed a pattern) and 'reason about' (make sense of). I don't hate 'code smell' to the degree that 'anti-pattern' makes me want to commit violence.
The evergreen (which may be in danger itself) is any use of an adjective in place of an adverb. Like what did 'ly' ever do to deserve this banishment?
posted by drowsy at 6:39 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
And a very hearty YES to 'learnings' @ jquinby. I'm sure there is some very precise reason why 'lessons' isn't perfect, but ooooooof.
Among the things that figuratively kill me, I can't wave a stick at Hacker News without hitting 'anti-pattern' (what it describes is indeed a pattern) and 'reason about' (make sense of). I don't hate 'code smell' to the degree that 'anti-pattern' makes me want to commit violence.
The evergreen (which may be in danger itself) is any use of an adjective in place of an adverb. Like what did 'ly' ever do to deserve this banishment?
posted by drowsy at 6:39 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
@eviemath, I have the same puzzlement/cognitive itch with "I'm over it." Because the user and subject are generally not resolved...
posted by drowsy at 6:41 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by drowsy at 6:41 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
'No Worries' is just Australian for the American 'No Problem' [banished in 1980], although Americans took up No Worries thanks to some crocodile-themed persons.
I was surprised some years back when I found myself agreeing with Miss Manners on anything, which in this case was that the proper response to "Thank You" is not "No Problem", but "You're Welcome'.
I would guess NP or NW is a proper response to "did I inconvenience you?"
posted by MtDewd at 6:42 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
I was surprised some years back when I found myself agreeing with Miss Manners on anything, which in this case was that the proper response to "Thank You" is not "No Problem", but "You're Welcome'.
I would guess NP or NW is a proper response to "did I inconvenience you?"
posted by MtDewd at 6:42 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
I was more interested in the fact that they set fire to a snowman every year.
posted by rikschell at 6:47 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 6:47 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
This jargon-hater doesn’t mind “No worries” in the least.
It’s a friendly thing. And if it’s big down there in Slip-Slap-Slop Land, so much the better.
posted by BostonTerrier at 6:49 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
It’s a friendly thing. And if it’s big down there in Slip-Slap-Slop Land, so much the better.
posted by BostonTerrier at 6:49 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
I'm just here to remind everyone that it's not okay to ubiquitously replace the verb "give" with the word "gift".
posted by skewed at 6:52 AM on January 4, 2022 [36 favorites]
posted by skewed at 6:52 AM on January 4, 2022 [36 favorites]
I think the 'no worries' thing in the USA grates, because without the ', mate' it is broken and not functional.
Without the endearment, it cuts off any temporary relationship/recognition that "You're welcome" gives to the "Thank you." Without the 'you/mate' it is like leaving a high-five hanging in the grocery line for everyone to see.
Add a mate/comrade whatever, and you have yourself a nice contribution to the thanks cycle.
posted by drowsy at 6:55 AM on January 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
Without the endearment, it cuts off any temporary relationship/recognition that "You're welcome" gives to the "Thank you." Without the 'you/mate' it is like leaving a high-five hanging in the grocery line for everyone to see.
Add a mate/comrade whatever, and you have yourself a nice contribution to the thanks cycle.
posted by drowsy at 6:55 AM on January 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
Amen @ skewed, I am of the belief that one can only re-gift.
posted by drowsy at 6:57 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by drowsy at 6:57 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Descriptivism aside, "unearned" in literary analysis deserves a place on this list as the mirror image of "worth" describing how much money a millionaire has. Bezos isn't worth (and didn't earn) any number of billion dollars; a story doesn't have to earn a line of dialogue.
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 7:08 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 7:08 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Antipatterns have always been patterns, since the term was coined. They are bad patterns to be avoided.
posted by lostburner at 7:09 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by lostburner at 7:09 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
No worries/no problem is one of those things that entitled boomers get pissed about in retail. I remember a lady going on a five minute rant about how a was disrespecting her and implying her asking me to do something was a problem. All because I didn't give the most obsequious "you're welcome" to her oh so gracious thank you.
posted by Ferreous at 7:11 AM on January 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 7:11 AM on January 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
I DON'T KNOW WHO NEEDS TO HEAR THIS, BUT...
posted by davidmsc at 7:14 AM on January 4, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by davidmsc at 7:14 AM on January 4, 2022 [13 favorites]
Am I the only one here who associates "no worries" primarily with The Lion King?
Also, if we're picking the jargon-y words we want to banish, I put in a vote for any use of "disrupt" or "disruption" in a business or marketing context. I don't want to hear another sales rep telling me that their product is "disrupting the status quo" or another job ad looking for entry-level people who will help them "disrupt the frozen yogurt paradigm" or whatever. It's stupid.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:18 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
Also, if we're picking the jargon-y words we want to banish, I put in a vote for any use of "disrupt" or "disruption" in a business or marketing context. I don't want to hear another sales rep telling me that their product is "disrupting the status quo" or another job ad looking for entry-level people who will help them "disrupt the frozen yogurt paradigm" or whatever. It's stupid.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:18 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
I feel like this usage has been migrating out of LA and it makes me want to SCREAM, curious if others have picked up on it yet: “The X of it all,” where X is…anything, but usually some kind of specific proper noun? Like, “I’ve been wondering if you’ve given any thought to the X of it all,” where as far as I can tell, the sentence could just be: “I wonder if you’ve given any thought to X.” Like, “Have you given any thought to the Metafilter of it all?” or whatever. This seems like such a weird verbal tic but I’m hearing it so much at work I’ve noticed it starting to slip into my own speech, which I guess is usually the fate of these things.
posted by Merricat Blackwood at 7:18 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Merricat Blackwood at 7:18 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I have the same puzzlement/cognitive itch with "I'm over it."
I’m not seeing the connection. “I’m over it” describes the speaker’s perspective from the speaker’s perspective rather than imposing it as universal, and is neither grammatically incorrect nor useless or pretentious filler. Did you just mean that you’ve seen an increase in use of the phrase among people you interact with over the past several years but don’t know what’s driving the trend?
posted by eviemath at 7:21 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I’m not seeing the connection. “I’m over it” describes the speaker’s perspective from the speaker’s perspective rather than imposing it as universal, and is neither grammatically incorrect nor useless or pretentious filler. Did you just mean that you’ve seen an increase in use of the phrase among people you interact with over the past several years but don’t know what’s driving the trend?
posted by eviemath at 7:21 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Wait, what? C'mon! https://youtu.be/la0dLIZU6Po
posted by tracemcjoy at 7:24 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by tracemcjoy at 7:24 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't know where I picked up "no worries" -- my best guess is from a Canadian acquaintance years ago, oddly enough -- but as a chronic people-pleaser who is terrified of causing another human even the slightest inconvenience, it's been a rhetorical staple of mine for years now. Sorry, world. (Also see: "You're good!")
posted by mykescipark at 7:34 AM on January 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by mykescipark at 7:34 AM on January 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
I don't understand why "supply chain" is on this list. "Supply chain" is not a catchphrase or slang. It's an actual thing in material requirements planning. It's like banning "spreadsheet" or "cargo container" or "forklift".
posted by SPrintF at 7:37 AM on January 4, 2022 [20 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 7:37 AM on January 4, 2022 [20 favorites]
Ha, I just googled it and the only thing I could find, in addition to a Community reference (it IS an LA studio exec thing!!)!is someone complaining about “the X of it all” in an Ask Metafilter post from 2019. Hi, cranky friends!
posted by Merricat Blackwood at 7:38 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Merricat Blackwood at 7:38 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Community reference
"No worries" is also an excellent Community episode reference, which becomes "some worries" throughout the episode for the hippy 'no worries' catchphrase guy.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:42 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
"No worries" is also an excellent Community episode reference, which becomes "some worries" throughout the episode for the hippy 'no worries' catchphrase guy.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:42 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
The gift that keeps on gifting.
posted by pipeski at 7:47 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by pipeski at 7:47 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
No mention of "content creator".
I have a pretty high tolerance for business-short hand (mix of survival instinct and immersion) so I don't mind most of these things. They can be irritating, sure, but that's about the extent of it. I genuinely think the use of "content creator" is actively harmful.
It is platforms elevating themselves above the people and their art. You don't post art online for people, you're a content creator for a platform. Ugh ugh ugh.
That being said, at the end of the day this is the new normal.
posted by slimepuppy at 7:50 AM on January 4, 2022 [10 favorites]
I have a pretty high tolerance for business-short hand (mix of survival instinct and immersion) so I don't mind most of these things. They can be irritating, sure, but that's about the extent of it. I genuinely think the use of "content creator" is actively harmful.
It is platforms elevating themselves above the people and their art. You don't post art online for people, you're a content creator for a platform. Ugh ugh ugh.
That being said, at the end of the day this is the new normal.
posted by slimepuppy at 7:50 AM on January 4, 2022 [10 favorites]
"No worries" is ideal and we are keeping it.
posted by praemunire at 7:50 AM on January 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 7:50 AM on January 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
I think the Graun has somehow mangled Sadow's commentary: she (an Australian and linguist) appears to be paraphrasing the definition in the list, not offering her own definition? I can't make sense of the article otherwise, unless there's something else it is or I am missing.
Nah, yeah. It's a bit mangled, but Sadow is summarizing both the correct and incorrect readings of 'no worries'.
“[Sadow's definition is that] It is the speaker saying that they feel ‘no worries’, and that they [the person quoted in the LSU list] think the listener should have ’no worries’.”
posted by zamboni at 7:53 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Nah, yeah. It's a bit mangled, but Sadow is summarizing both the correct and incorrect readings of 'no worries'.
“[Sadow's definition is that] It is the speaker saying that they feel ‘no worries’, and that they [the person quoted in the LSU list] think the listener should have ’no worries’.”
posted by zamboni at 7:53 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I picked up "no worries" about a decade ago from my British cow-orkers, along with "bespoke".
posted by briank at 8:06 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by briank at 8:06 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
I don't understand why people think the writers of the article don't know that "no worries" means some variation of "you're welcome," since they explicitly state that. The "don't worry" definition was, in their words, "a further bungling" of the term.
posted by pinothefrog at 8:08 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by pinothefrog at 8:08 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
This new year, in place of "no worries", I intend to start overusing "Super Easy! Barely an inconvenience!" in its place.
posted by bonehead at 8:14 AM on January 4, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 8:14 AM on January 4, 2022 [14 favorites]
Someone mentioned Lion King... Song time!
Graititous Violence
Graititous Violence! What a wonderful phrase
Graititous Violence! Ain't no passing craze
It means no worries for the rest of your days
It's our problem-free philosophy
Graititous Violence
Graititous Violence
Yeah. It's our motto!
What's a motto?
Nothing. What's a-motto with you?
Those two words will solve all your problems
Graititous Violence
(Please don't actually do any violence)
posted by Jacen at 8:28 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
Graititous Violence
Graititous Violence! What a wonderful phrase
Graititous Violence! Ain't no passing craze
It means no worries for the rest of your days
It's our problem-free philosophy
Graititous Violence
Graititous Violence
Yeah. It's our motto!
What's a motto?
Nothing. What's a-motto with you?
Those two words will solve all your problems
Graititous Violence
(Please don't actually do any violence)
posted by Jacen at 8:28 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
"No worries" seems friendlier/less formal than "you're welcome." Although I do notice I use the latter when I'm trying to be more effusive, like I want someone to know I really enjoyed doing whatever for them.
Ironically, adding"mate" or "pal" to anything usually reads as hostile in the States!
posted by emjaybee at 8:35 AM on January 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
Ironically, adding"mate" or "pal" to anything usually reads as hostile in the States!
posted by emjaybee at 8:35 AM on January 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
I saw a nice discussion once of the "no problem" vs. "you're welcome" split, by IIRC a linguist who had age/region breakdowns too.
The problem is the intuitions on what being communicated is 100% reversed. The traditionalists view "no problem" as implying the request was a problem, which gets their dander up especially in the service industry. You say "you're welcome" and move on.
The "no problem" sayers (I'm one) think the thing they are doing is not even worth a thank you; it's a way of emphasizing the triviality of the thing we did. Saying "you're welcome" implies the thing you did was in fact an imposition, and you deserved to be thanked (and something more.)
Someone pointed out the sarcastic use of "you're welcome" when you're not thanked. I think this plays into it for some of us; you use "you're welcome" when you want to make an issue of it.
posted by mark k at 8:48 AM on January 4, 2022 [13 favorites]
The problem is the intuitions on what being communicated is 100% reversed. The traditionalists view "no problem" as implying the request was a problem, which gets their dander up especially in the service industry. You say "you're welcome" and move on.
The "no problem" sayers (I'm one) think the thing they are doing is not even worth a thank you; it's a way of emphasizing the triviality of the thing we did. Saying "you're welcome" implies the thing you did was in fact an imposition, and you deserved to be thanked (and something more.)
Someone pointed out the sarcastic use of "you're welcome" when you're not thanked. I think this plays into it for some of us; you use "you're welcome" when you want to make an issue of it.
posted by mark k at 8:48 AM on January 4, 2022 [13 favorites]
I picked up “no worries” from a kind, generous Kiwi I dated many years ago - it is a FANTASTIC phrase.
I remember having an argument with my mother about “no problem” in high school - she was frustrated that I sometimes responded to “thank you” with “no problem”, and demanded that it was Not Correct, as others have noted above. I had by that point taken a little bit of both Spanish and French, and sallied right back that if “it’s nothing” is good enough for two major languages, then “no problem” could be good enough for me. Don’t Worry - You Owe Me No Cosmic Debt! Being Nice To You Has Not Caused Me Trouble! I should really look up the etymology of de nada/de rien one of these days.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 8:49 AM on January 4, 2022 [12 favorites]
I remember having an argument with my mother about “no problem” in high school - she was frustrated that I sometimes responded to “thank you” with “no problem”, and demanded that it was Not Correct, as others have noted above. I had by that point taken a little bit of both Spanish and French, and sallied right back that if “it’s nothing” is good enough for two major languages, then “no problem” could be good enough for me. Don’t Worry - You Owe Me No Cosmic Debt! Being Nice To You Has Not Caused Me Trouble! I should really look up the etymology of de nada/de rien one of these days.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 8:49 AM on January 4, 2022 [12 favorites]
"You're welcome" to me implies that yes, you did impose, your thanks is bloody well warranted, whereas "no worries" (or "no bother", "no problem" and a dozen other variations) implies that hey, no need to to thank me you weren't a meaningful imposition at all.
posted by Dysk at 8:49 AM on January 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 8:49 AM on January 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
My take is anyone taking offense at no worries/problem was looking for something to take offense at in the first place.
posted by Ferreous at 8:54 AM on January 4, 2022 [18 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 8:54 AM on January 4, 2022 [18 favorites]
skewed: “I'm just here to remind everyone that it's not okay to ubiquitously replace the verb "give" with the word "gift".”Nor is it okay to replace the noun "expense" with "spend."
posted by ob1quixote at 8:55 AM on January 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
They should add "Let's be clear."
posted by Captaintripps at 8:55 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Captaintripps at 8:55 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Efforting.
posted by Furnace of Doubt at 8:58 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Furnace of Doubt at 8:58 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
The thing I picked up from my British cow-orkers [sic, but a really nice word itself] was 'Brilliant.' Also 'Cheers!'
I think the thing with 'supply chain' is not that it's in any way lazy or a bad use of language, but they're just tried of hearing it. Maybe even bored with it.
posted by MtDewd at 9:02 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think the thing with 'supply chain' is not that it's in any way lazy or a bad use of language, but they're just tried of hearing it. Maybe even bored with it.
posted by MtDewd at 9:02 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
"Brilliant" is, well, brilliant.
On the negative side learning is the one business buzzword that I want to "correct" every time I see it. I literally feel the urge to raise my hand in seminars mention that they used the wrong word, as if I caught an embarrassing typo.
posted by mark k at 9:10 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
On the negative side learning is the one business buzzword that I want to "correct" every time I see it. I literally feel the urge to raise my hand in seminars mention that they used the wrong word, as if I caught an embarrassing typo.
posted by mark k at 9:10 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
In our household, we are bigger fans of Haroun and the Sea of Stories than of "Hakuna Matata" so we say, "but but but no problem."
posted by straight at 9:17 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by straight at 9:17 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I was one of those people who bristled at "No worries" and still do because here in the US it's a transplanted phrase so whatever context I was supposed to have to know that it means "I have no worries" and not "I'm telling you not to worry" same thing with "No problem" - worries and problems are NOT supposed to be a part of this exchange. I don't like it. Just close the loop.
Ideally it goes like this:
1. I did something for you - you owe me
2. You say "Thank you" - you acknowledge the debt
3. "You're welcome" - I clear the debt by acknowledging you were welcome to ask for and receive my help - now we're even.
1. I did something for you - you owe me
2. You say "Thank you" - you acknowledge the debt
3. I say "Oh, I'm not worried" or "no problem" - to me this doesn't at all acknowledge that any of this was ok. I know that in places where this phrase developed organically all this context comes pre-bundled I suppose but it didn't come bundled here. I only found out that it's supposed to mean "I have no worries" and not "I'm judging how much you're worried" from people talking about it online. I'm not offended by it it's just not getting the communication job done. Some of us need words to mean things, you know?
posted by bleep at 9:32 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
Ideally it goes like this:
1. I did something for you - you owe me
2. You say "Thank you" - you acknowledge the debt
3. "You're welcome" - I clear the debt by acknowledging you were welcome to ask for and receive my help - now we're even.
1. I did something for you - you owe me
2. You say "Thank you" - you acknowledge the debt
3. I say "Oh, I'm not worried" or "no problem" - to me this doesn't at all acknowledge that any of this was ok. I know that in places where this phrase developed organically all this context comes pre-bundled I suppose but it didn't come bundled here. I only found out that it's supposed to mean "I have no worries" and not "I'm judging how much you're worried" from people talking about it online. I'm not offended by it it's just not getting the communication job done. Some of us need words to mean things, you know?
posted by bleep at 9:32 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
In the context of service work who cares? They're not doing anything out of gratitude, it's to get paid. There's no debts or such, it's literally a job. Expecting some linguistic deference of clearing debt is weird.
posted by Ferreous at 9:38 AM on January 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 9:38 AM on January 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
I would never get in someone's face about it. I'm just describing why it feels wrong.
posted by bleep at 9:41 AM on January 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by bleep at 9:41 AM on January 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'm as prescriptive as the next person, but I have to say there's some awkward anger in this thread.
That said, "no worries" has spread from an inappropriate substitute for "you're welcome" to an all-purpose reply in most social intercourse.
-I was going to get a sandwich.
-No worries. [go ahead, take your time]
-Sorry, I thought it was my shift.
-No worries. [no need to apologize]
-I can't enter my PIN on this screen.
-No worries. [hold on a sec]
and on and on...
Just use the right phrase, humanity. There are many and specific ones that have developed over the decades, if not centuries, to address the specific issue or problem at hand.
Also, I have to laugh at the graphic that shows previous "banished" words that are flourishing in everyday parlance. Talk about commanding the tide to stop.
posted by the sobsister at 9:44 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
That said, "no worries" has spread from an inappropriate substitute for "you're welcome" to an all-purpose reply in most social intercourse.
-I was going to get a sandwich.
-No worries. [go ahead, take your time]
-Sorry, I thought it was my shift.
-No worries. [no need to apologize]
-I can't enter my PIN on this screen.
-No worries. [hold on a sec]
and on and on...
Just use the right phrase, humanity. There are many and specific ones that have developed over the decades, if not centuries, to address the specific issue or problem at hand.
Also, I have to laugh at the graphic that shows previous "banished" words that are flourishing in everyday parlance. Talk about commanding the tide to stop.
posted by the sobsister at 9:44 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
On the negative side learning is the one business buzzword that I want to "correct" every time I see it.
/me ugly twists in his seat.
So very much. I've been on industry-academic panels in the past few years where "learnings" are held-up to peer reviewed research as ways to disregard the research in place of "logic" and "common sense". Guess which one has lead to costly redos in even a few months. Even the best cost-benefit analysis or colourful critical path chart is garbage if the model assumptions are bad.
posted by bonehead at 9:48 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
/me ugly twists in his seat.
So very much. I've been on industry-academic panels in the past few years where "learnings" are held-up to peer reviewed research as ways to disregard the research in place of "logic" and "common sense". Guess which one has lead to costly redos in even a few months. Even the best cost-benefit analysis or colourful critical path chart is garbage if the model assumptions are bad.
posted by bonehead at 9:48 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
I understand "you're welcome" not as clearing the debt, but registering your acknowledgement of it, so that now we are explicitly not even: you owe me a (tiny) debt, and I expect you to lend a cup of sugar to me (or whatever) next time around.
"No worries" as a response to "thank you" means "this debt falls below my threshold of notability" and thus no debt is incurred. We are even and you owe nothing to me. "No worries" also implies nothing about whether or not you would be welcome to the favor again in the future, where "you're welcome" suggests we have an ongoing relationship of some kind.
posted by echo target at 9:48 AM on January 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
"No worries" as a response to "thank you" means "this debt falls below my threshold of notability" and thus no debt is incurred. We are even and you owe nothing to me. "No worries" also implies nothing about whether or not you would be welcome to the favor again in the future, where "you're welcome" suggests we have an ongoing relationship of some kind.
posted by echo target at 9:48 AM on January 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
To clarify the usage, if you thanked me for holding a door for you, I would say "no worries", but if you thanked me for helping you move to a new apartment, I would say "you're welcome".
posted by echo target at 9:52 AM on January 4, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by echo target at 9:52 AM on January 4, 2022 [10 favorites]
Used in this way, "no worries" is linguistically identical to "fuggedaboudit."
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:59 AM on January 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:59 AM on January 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
I equate "no worries" with "no problem", so if you think of a context where "no problem" is applicable, then "no worries" should too, and it's often where you're inconveniencing yourself for someone else in a spur of the moment, not something planned, and even if it's planned, sometimes I'll do a one-two "you're welcome! no worries!".
posted by numaner at 10:01 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by numaner at 10:01 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
No worries.
posted by AlSweigart at 10:07 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by AlSweigart at 10:07 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
When responding to thanks, I like to mix it up occasionally with a "nae bother pal", "nae bother hen" or even a respectful "nae bother big man"... all depending on the preferred pronouns, of course...
posted by rh at 10:09 AM on January 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by rh at 10:09 AM on January 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
Wait, what? That being said, at the end of the day, we should circle back and take a deep dive into the new normal supply chain. Asking for a friend, if you’re on mute, is it really no worries?
posted by njohnson23 at 10:15 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 10:15 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm sure there is some very precise reason why 'lessons' isn't perfect
IMHO, a lesson is ambiguous, as it can be the event or process in which one learns, as well as what one takes away from it (and, these days, is more likely to be the former than the latter), whereas a learning is specifically only what one takes away from a lesson. As such, “learnings” is an actually useful neologism.
posted by acb at 10:23 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
IMHO, a lesson is ambiguous, as it can be the event or process in which one learns, as well as what one takes away from it (and, these days, is more likely to be the former than the latter), whereas a learning is specifically only what one takes away from a lesson. As such, “learnings” is an actually useful neologism.
posted by acb at 10:23 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
What does “open the kimono” mean? (Do I even want to know? I probably don’t.) I’ve never even heard it before (probably because it sounds like it’s likely simultaneously sexist and racist and annoying business-speak, and all of the people I talk to or things I read regularly tend to avoid at least one of those attributes, thankfully).
It's analogous to "lay your cards on the table". I had a boss at work that liked to use it. The idea is that you don't hide any information from another business entity that you are partnering with. I found it really gross, racist and misogynistic. I'm really glad that I don't work for him anymore, and more glad that he isn't in a management position anymore.
posted by Quonab at 10:26 AM on January 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
It's analogous to "lay your cards on the table". I had a boss at work that liked to use it. The idea is that you don't hide any information from another business entity that you are partnering with. I found it really gross, racist and misogynistic. I'm really glad that I don't work for him anymore, and more glad that he isn't in a management position anymore.
posted by Quonab at 10:26 AM on January 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
I once deadpan offered to run the kimono up the flagpole.
Lingering bewilderment from upthread: what does "No bad dogs" mean as business jargon?
posted by clew at 10:43 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
Lingering bewilderment from upthread: what does "No bad dogs" mean as business jargon?
posted by clew at 10:43 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
I genuinely think the use of "content creator" is actively harmful.
Calling a writer or artist a content creator seems to be of a kind with calling a human being a meatbag, in being a predatory sort of reductionism.
posted by acb at 10:56 AM on January 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
Calling a writer or artist a content creator seems to be of a kind with calling a human being a meatbag, in being a predatory sort of reductionism.
posted by acb at 10:56 AM on January 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
And speaking of good doggos, the “-boi” suffix will surely get its day here.
posted by acb at 10:57 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by acb at 10:57 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
1. Wait, what?
It's a bold choice to begin a list of overused linguistic cliches with "Wait, what?" and, in the very paragraph where you explain the choice, include the also-overused phrase "I hate it."
Thanks, I hate it.
3. At the end of the day
Use of this phrase is already partly regulated by the fact that if you don't use the phrase appropriately (and sometimes even if you do), people like me will just mentally suppy "...you're another day older / and that's all you can say for the life of the poor." So what I'm saying is, it's already a risky option to drop the opening of an Andrew Lloyd Webber song into casual conversation, there should be no need to take the extra step of banishing it.
I'm absolutely not a prescriptivist, not even faintly, but I will admit I was pleased to see that "Problematic" made it onto their list in 2016 and a little disappointed to see that they haven't yet pushed back on how "Gaslighting" has been watered down to basically mean "lying and expecting to get away with it".
posted by mstokes650 at 11:00 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's a bold choice to begin a list of overused linguistic cliches with "Wait, what?" and, in the very paragraph where you explain the choice, include the also-overused phrase "I hate it."
Thanks, I hate it.
3. At the end of the day
Use of this phrase is already partly regulated by the fact that if you don't use the phrase appropriately (and sometimes even if you do), people like me will just mentally suppy "...you're another day older / and that's all you can say for the life of the poor." So what I'm saying is, it's already a risky option to drop the opening of an Andrew Lloyd Webber song into casual conversation, there should be no need to take the extra step of banishing it.
I'm absolutely not a prescriptivist, not even faintly, but I will admit I was pleased to see that "Problematic" made it onto their list in 2016 and a little disappointed to see that they haven't yet pushed back on how "Gaslighting" has been watered down to basically mean "lying and expecting to get away with it".
posted by mstokes650 at 11:00 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
I have the same puzzlement/cognitive itch with "I'm over it."
I’m not seeing the connection. “I’m over it” describes the speaker’s perspective from the speaker’s perspective rather than imposing it as universal, and is neither grammatically incorrect nor useless or pretentious filler. Did you just mean that you’ve seen an increase in use of the phrase among people you interact with over the past several years but don’t know what’s driving the trend?
Hi @eviemath, I'm just saying that more and more often I hear this phrase when people are actively upset and are in the process of getting over it in the sense I was used to: one has dealt a thing and it is behind them. Sometimes the 'over' is more like a threshold crossed than a full processing. Like "I'm fed up with it. == I'm so over it." It's not a banishment thing, just something I need to zero in on to get the gist each time.
posted by drowsy at 11:02 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I’m not seeing the connection. “I’m over it” describes the speaker’s perspective from the speaker’s perspective rather than imposing it as universal, and is neither grammatically incorrect nor useless or pretentious filler. Did you just mean that you’ve seen an increase in use of the phrase among people you interact with over the past several years but don’t know what’s driving the trend?
Hi @eviemath, I'm just saying that more and more often I hear this phrase when people are actively upset and are in the process of getting over it in the sense I was used to: one has dealt a thing and it is behind them. Sometimes the 'over' is more like a threshold crossed than a full processing. Like "I'm fed up with it. == I'm so over it." It's not a banishment thing, just something I need to zero in on to get the gist each time.
posted by drowsy at 11:02 AM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
FWIW, I am learning a bit about the place 'No worries" inhabits than I appreciated before.
And @emjaybee, I hear you. It is an art form to use 'mate/buddy/boss/chief/pal'... some people can do it, and I am mostly successful, but in the US you can hear the sleeves being rolled up in response sometimes.
posted by drowsy at 11:07 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
And @emjaybee, I hear you. It is an art form to use 'mate/buddy/boss/chief/pal'... some people can do it, and I am mostly successful, but in the US you can hear the sleeves being rolled up in response sometimes.
posted by drowsy at 11:07 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I enjoyed this take in the "No Worries" article, from the delightfully named Tiger Webb:
“In my view the compilers of the Banished Words list at LSSU are idiotically mistaken to view ‘no worries’ as misused, overused, or incorrect.”
Those who object to being told not to worry are “misunderstanding on two fairly fundamental levels”, he says.
“In this context, ‘no worries’ indicates that the person being thanked went through no trouble or difficulty; it is not an imperative from the person being thanked that the person doing the thanking should not worry."
posted by ZaphodB at 11:10 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
“In my view the compilers of the Banished Words list at LSSU are idiotically mistaken to view ‘no worries’ as misused, overused, or incorrect.”
Those who object to being told not to worry are “misunderstanding on two fairly fundamental levels”, he says.
“In this context, ‘no worries’ indicates that the person being thanked went through no trouble or difficulty; it is not an imperative from the person being thanked that the person doing the thanking should not worry."
posted by ZaphodB at 11:10 AM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
"No worries" isn't a mere substitute for "you're welcome." In fact at least in the U.S. I hear it used a lot more in the context of small social inconveniences. You: *accidentally bump into me* Oh, sorry! Me: No worries!
posted by praemunire at 11:25 AM on January 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 11:25 AM on January 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
It is interesting to read some of the responses to "you're welcome." The reticence or, at times, outright antagonism towards that phrase is something I really associate with the US and was initially really baffling to me when I first encountered it. I've met people who legitimately get pissed off at me for using it which, for a polite Canadian, is weird. I definitely don't feel we have the same baggage with the phrase (or at least I don't).
The phrase in the US, I always trip over and am unnerved by everytime, is the ubiquity of "have a blesséd day." My response is almost always a very awkward "ok?" The buddy/pal thing, like a cat being pet the wrong way, I've encountered as well in US. In my part of Canada, it is a pretty common part of speech so I have to be very careful when I speak with Americans and catch myself from saying it.
posted by Ashwagandha at 11:25 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
The phrase in the US, I always trip over and am unnerved by everytime, is the ubiquity of "have a blesséd day." My response is almost always a very awkward "ok?" The buddy/pal thing, like a cat being pet the wrong way, I've encountered as well in US. In my part of Canada, it is a pretty common part of speech so I have to be very careful when I speak with Americans and catch myself from saying it.
posted by Ashwagandha at 11:25 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I always trip over and am unnerved by everytime, is the ubiquity of "have a blesséd day." My response is almost always a very awkward "ok?"
I don’t hear it as much, but my usual response is, “I have other plans.”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:27 AM on January 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
I don’t hear it as much, but my usual response is, “I have other plans.”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:27 AM on January 4, 2022 [11 favorites]
I genuinely think the use of "content creator" is actively harmful.
It feeds the model that we're either empty mouths, consumers, or that rarest of birds, creators. In either case, we're consuming/creating fungible, homogenized "product" that has no other identifiable features. It's the extruded [fantasy] product model of industrialized intellectual property machines run for the benefits of rent-seekers. There is no aesthetic interest in the actual pink tubes of Pablum being interchanged, just in the monetization of that transaction.
I agree: "content creator" is part of the dehumanizing language used by the rights-holding classes.
[fantasy] being one of the most common inserts here, but [true crime] and [romance] fit here too, as does many genres of [beauty], [fashion], [reality], [food], [travel] and especially [kids] entertainment too.
posted by bonehead at 11:30 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
It feeds the model that we're either empty mouths, consumers, or that rarest of birds, creators. In either case, we're consuming/creating fungible, homogenized "product" that has no other identifiable features. It's the extruded [fantasy] product model of industrialized intellectual property machines run for the benefits of rent-seekers. There is no aesthetic interest in the actual pink tubes of Pablum being interchanged, just in the monetization of that transaction.
I agree: "content creator" is part of the dehumanizing language used by the rights-holding classes.
[fantasy] being one of the most common inserts here, but [true crime] and [romance] fit here too, as does many genres of [beauty], [fashion], [reality], [food], [travel] and especially [kids] entertainment too.
posted by bonehead at 11:30 AM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Add "maker" to "content creator" as a description I cannot stand. It's usage is always self-congratulatory, in my eyes. We're all "makers", sometimes in humble little ways, yes, but...
posted by maxwelton at 11:34 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by maxwelton at 11:34 AM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
The phrase in the US, I always trip over and am unnerved by everytime, is the ubiquity of "have a blesséd day." My response is almost always a very awkward "ok?"
Just say "thank you," unless the context makes it clear it's being offered in an aggressive spirit (which it definitely can be). I'm an atheist myself, but...it's not hard to accept someone else's vague well-wishes in the spirit intended?
posted by praemunire at 12:11 PM on January 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
Just say "thank you," unless the context makes it clear it's being offered in an aggressive spirit (which it definitely can be). I'm an atheist myself, but...it's not hard to accept someone else's vague well-wishes in the spirit intended?
posted by praemunire at 12:11 PM on January 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
We're all "makers", sometimes in humble little ways, yes, but...
Auden wrote a whole little poem for the Cave of Making
posted by clew at 12:20 PM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Auden wrote a whole little poem for the Cave of Making
posted by clew at 12:20 PM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
vague well-wishes in the spirit intended
Vague perhaps but there is always an overt religious element to it which, for many non-Americans in more broadly secular cultures, is unnerving as it can never be truly non-aggressive for some of us. To me when I hear it, it means "I hope you allow the Evangelical Jesus into your heart, non-believer" which I understand people don't necessarily mean but using religious language in a secular sphere is not something some non-Americans are accustomed to and in fact find deeply off-putting.
posted by Ashwagandha at 12:48 PM on January 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
Vague perhaps but there is always an overt religious element to it which, for many non-Americans in more broadly secular cultures, is unnerving as it can never be truly non-aggressive for some of us. To me when I hear it, it means "I hope you allow the Evangelical Jesus into your heart, non-believer" which I understand people don't necessarily mean but using religious language in a secular sphere is not something some non-Americans are accustomed to and in fact find deeply off-putting.
posted by Ashwagandha at 12:48 PM on January 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
Status anxiety is a hell of a drug.
posted by Coaticass at 12:51 PM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Coaticass at 12:51 PM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
Here's something that I, as a non-native speaker of English, have been wondering about.
What does it mean to start a reply with "I mean, ..."?
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:32 PM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
What does it mean to start a reply with "I mean, ..."?
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:32 PM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
It is weird that buddy/pal come across as snide, or an invitation to fight, in the U.S. I'm not sure why. Though they are more acceptable used on little kids ("hey little buddy" is ok for example).
posted by emjaybee at 1:39 PM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by emjaybee at 1:39 PM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
The phrase in the US, I always trip over and am unnerved by everytime, is the ubiquity of "have a blesséd day."
We're all "makers", sometimes in humble little ways, yes, but...
We're all "makers", sometimes in humble little ways, yes, but...
Bless the coming and going of Him.posted by zamboni at 2:04 PM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
May His passage cleanse the world.
May He keep the world for His people.
I wholehartedly agree with nixing "new normal." It's been used since 9/11 (and probably before then). Life changes - that IS the norm. Get over it.
and get off my lawn while you're at it
posted by hydra77 at 2:11 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
and get off my lawn while you're at it
posted by hydra77 at 2:11 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
have a blesséd day
Thinking about this next to the "you're welcome / no problem" stuff I'm realizing the problem with this class of interaction is it's supposed to be on automatic.
Someone suggested responding to "How are you?" with "Not much, what's up with you?" and seeing how many people even notice. Not many, I'd bet. We're not paying attention the words here.
Similarly "have a nice day" is merely processed as someone being polite. That's all. They aren't commanding me or presuming too much.
But for me personally, if I hear "have a blessed day" I need to think about what it means. It means the same thing, in fact, but I find myself interpreting literally and need to parse it and then discard that meaning in favor of the intent. Same thing, apparently, with the wrong YW/NP choice. (I know people who read into e-mail sign offs and think "Regards," "Warmest Regards," "Sincerely", etc. are communicating different things, which is certainly not the case when I sign my e-mails!)
posted by mark k at 2:13 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Thinking about this next to the "you're welcome / no problem" stuff I'm realizing the problem with this class of interaction is it's supposed to be on automatic.
Someone suggested responding to "How are you?" with "Not much, what's up with you?" and seeing how many people even notice. Not many, I'd bet. We're not paying attention the words here.
Similarly "have a nice day" is merely processed as someone being polite. That's all. They aren't commanding me or presuming too much.
But for me personally, if I hear "have a blessed day" I need to think about what it means. It means the same thing, in fact, but I find myself interpreting literally and need to parse it and then discard that meaning in favor of the intent. Same thing, apparently, with the wrong YW/NP choice. (I know people who read into e-mail sign offs and think "Regards," "Warmest Regards," "Sincerely", etc. are communicating different things, which is certainly not the case when I sign my e-mails!)
posted by mark k at 2:13 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I definitely use "no problem"/"no worries" in more of the de nada/de rein sense, at least as I understand it -- like, it was not a big deal for me to do this thing for you and I didn't mind doing it. It's more of an interaction of equals to me. "You're welcome" feels a bit more like something you say to someone who is requiring your subservience. I agree that's more a class thing (partially) than a generational thing.
posted by edencosmic at 2:41 PM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by edencosmic at 2:41 PM on January 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
People used to say "bless you" when someone sneezed. I haven't heard it as much lately, but when I do, it doesn't occur to me to think they're trying to evangelize me. It's just a thing people say, maybe without even knowing why.
posted by Crane Shot at 2:43 PM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Crane Shot at 2:43 PM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
Graititous Violence! What a wonderful phrase
I myself have derived hours of innocent pleasure from replacing "hakuna matata" with "vagina dentata." What a wonderful phrase!
You're welcome.
posted by BlueNorther at 2:46 PM on January 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
I myself have derived hours of innocent pleasure from replacing "hakuna matata" with "vagina dentata." What a wonderful phrase!
You're welcome.
posted by BlueNorther at 2:46 PM on January 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
People used to say "bless you" when someone sneezed.
When someone coughs, however, you say “Hail Satan”.
posted by acb at 2:49 PM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
When someone coughs, however, you say “Hail Satan”.
posted by acb at 2:49 PM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
Crane Shot: It's just a thing people say, maybe without even knowing why.
In my native language, I can handle that. In English, however, such things can make me bristle or confuse me because I tend to take them too literally.
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:57 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
In my native language, I can handle that. In English, however, such things can make me bristle or confuse me because I tend to take them too literally.
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:57 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
This bean is a little smaller than the rest, I'll eat it just to even things up, wait, that bean is a little larger, leveling the plating field, no worries, no beans, what's this leftover juice? Ummm.
posted by Oyéah at 2:58 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 2:58 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
And I think "no worries," or "no problem," is exactly analogous to "don't mention it," or "think nothing of it," which is the strictly U response to thanks in the UK, but makes you sound a bit like you think you're in an episode of Jeeves and Wooster. "You're welcome" was until very recently (still is in socially conservative circles) the non-U, not traditionally proper, response, because it was considered a bit crass to make it sound as if you agreed that someone owed you thanks.
posted by BlueNorther at 3:01 PM on January 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by BlueNorther at 3:01 PM on January 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
I wholehartedly agree…
posted by hydra77
Am now imagining a 77-headed buck deer, all heads nodding in agreement.
posted by eviemath at 3:15 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by hydra77
Am now imagining a 77-headed buck deer, all heads nodding in agreement.
posted by eviemath at 3:15 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Too-Ticky: Here's something that I, as a non-native speaker of English, have been wondering about.
What does it mean to start a reply with "I mean, ..."?
Nothing really. It's basically a vocal tic like "um" or "like" or how some Brits incorporate "sort of" into every sentence. I start many sentences with "I mean" for no good reason.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 3:16 PM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
What does it mean to start a reply with "I mean, ..."?
Nothing really. It's basically a vocal tic like "um" or "like" or how some Brits incorporate "sort of" into every sentence. I start many sentences with "I mean" for no good reason.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 3:16 PM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Another weird one is "yeah, no"... as in "yeah, no, I totally agree with you". Which I think I've finally figured out is shorthand for "yeah, I agree with you – no, I don't disagree with you". I guess it's good to cover all the bases!
posted by Crane Shot at 3:21 PM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Crane Shot at 3:21 PM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
"I mean" is an intensifier. It's a cue that person feels (at least somewhat) strongly about the issue. The same as "note that" or "hey motherfucker".
posted by bonehead at 3:48 PM on January 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 3:48 PM on January 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
3. At the end of the day
Use of this phrase is already partly regulated by the fact that if you don't use the phrase appropriately (and sometimes even if you do), people like me will just mentally suppy "...you're another day older / and that's all you can say for the life of the poor."
Happy birthday. PS: You are now one year closer to death
Here's something that I, as a non-native speaker of English, have been wondering about.
What does it mean to start a reply with "I mean, ..."?
Ooh, interesting question. As a native English speaker, I think I use it to add emphasis, often with an element of contrast. So "I mean, I love [X], but..." means that I both do love [X] and also have problems with it. At the same time, "I mean, what the hell?!" is basically "what the hell?!?!?!?!?!?!"
On preview: yeah, I also use it in the sense that Rock 'em Sock 'em describes. Kind of a not directly confrontational way of indicating that I disagree or think otherwise. "I mean… that's a thing, I guess?" for me generally means "I really don't understand or get that, but I'm not going to be a jerk about saying it's wrong."
posted by Lexica at 4:21 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Use of this phrase is already partly regulated by the fact that if you don't use the phrase appropriately (and sometimes even if you do), people like me will just mentally suppy "...you're another day older / and that's all you can say for the life of the poor."
Happy birthday. PS: You are now one year closer to death
Here's something that I, as a non-native speaker of English, have been wondering about.
What does it mean to start a reply with "I mean, ..."?
Ooh, interesting question. As a native English speaker, I think I use it to add emphasis, often with an element of contrast. So "I mean, I love [X], but..." means that I both do love [X] and also have problems with it. At the same time, "I mean, what the hell?!" is basically "what the hell?!?!?!?!?!?!"
On preview: yeah, I also use it in the sense that Rock 'em Sock 'em describes. Kind of a not directly confrontational way of indicating that I disagree or think otherwise. "I mean… that's a thing, I guess?" for me generally means "I really don't understand or get that, but I'm not going to be a jerk about saying it's wrong."
posted by Lexica at 4:21 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I hate almost everything and even I like "no worries," at least when used to mean "please do not worry that I might be annoyed at you, everything is good between us." I don't approve of using it to mean "you're welcome," but then again I never hear anyone using it that way so all is well in my world.
posted by HotToddy at 4:29 PM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by HotToddy at 4:29 PM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Another weird one is "yeah, no"... as in "yeah, no, I totally agree with you". Which I think I've finally figured out is shorthand for "yeah, I agree with you – no, I don't disagree with you".
As a Californian, I instinctually understand the differences between "yeah, no", "no, yeah", "yeah, no, yeah", and "no, yeah, no" but would have difficulty expressing them.
Let's see...
"Yeah, no" is kind of "I hear what you're saying, and I [disagree with the outcome/agree that what happened was wrong]".
"No, yeah" is kind of "expressing disapproval of the situation, then expressing solidarity with the speaker"
"Yeah, no, yeah" and "No, yeah, no" are basically stronger versions of the above, IME
(Incidentally, I'm currently studying Korean and am finding interesting parallels with 네, which is often translated as "yes", but is better understood along the lines of "agreed, that's correct, gotcha". So "you don't like coffee?" would be answered with "네", while in English it would probably be "No, I don't like coffee.")
Also "yeah" is (locally) pronounced more like "yah" or "y@h" (that's meant to be a schwa) (I should really learn the International Phonetic Alphabet) than like "yeeah". So it's more "yah no" and "no yah".
posted by Lexica at 4:33 PM on January 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
As a Californian, I instinctually understand the differences between "yeah, no", "no, yeah", "yeah, no, yeah", and "no, yeah, no" but would have difficulty expressing them.
Let's see...
"Yeah, no" is kind of "I hear what you're saying, and I [disagree with the outcome/agree that what happened was wrong]".
"No, yeah" is kind of "expressing disapproval of the situation, then expressing solidarity with the speaker"
"Yeah, no, yeah" and "No, yeah, no" are basically stronger versions of the above, IME
(Incidentally, I'm currently studying Korean and am finding interesting parallels with 네, which is often translated as "yes", but is better understood along the lines of "agreed, that's correct, gotcha". So "you don't like coffee?" would be answered with "네", while in English it would probably be "No, I don't like coffee.")
Also "yeah" is (locally) pronounced more like "yah" or "y@h" (that's meant to be a schwa) (I should really learn the International Phonetic Alphabet) than like "yeeah". So it's more "yah no" and "no yah".
posted by Lexica at 4:33 PM on January 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
To clarify the usage, if you thanked me for holding a door for you, I would say "no worries", but if you thanked me for helping you move to a new apartment, I would say "you're welcome".
Meanwhile, my US Southern/Midwest guess-culture-raised self would reply with "Oh, hey, not a problem at all, no worries," but I would definitely expect the favor returned if I was moving house. (Implied: I know you'd do the same for me.)
posted by lesser weasel at 4:33 PM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, my US Southern/Midwest guess-culture-raised self would reply with "Oh, hey, not a problem at all, no worries," but I would definitely expect the favor returned if I was moving house. (Implied: I know you'd do the same for me.)
posted by lesser weasel at 4:33 PM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm trying to think of actual situations in which I'd use "you're welcome" without it being half a joke, but I can't think of any! Actually pleased to help out: "No problem!" I surprised you with your favorite cookies and I'm being good-naturedly smug about it: "You are very welcome."
I used to be pretty prescriptive about language, but honestly? I don't care anymore. Language is fun; I like seeing it evolve. Some usages may bother me like an itch when I hear them, but not enough to put them on a banished words list.
posted by lesser weasel at 4:36 PM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
I used to be pretty prescriptive about language, but honestly? I don't care anymore. Language is fun; I like seeing it evolve. Some usages may bother me like an itch when I hear them, but not enough to put them on a banished words list.
posted by lesser weasel at 4:36 PM on January 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
Someone should banish ME from saying "no problemo" because I certainly haven't been able to make myself stop.
posted by euphoria066 at 4:45 PM on January 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by euphoria066 at 4:45 PM on January 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
A friend of mine worked in Bosnia for a while and while visiting her there I learned that in Bosnian it's "nema problema." I've used nothing else since, nor will I.
posted by BlueNorther at 4:57 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by BlueNorther at 4:57 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
If you’re going to make a list of terms to eliminate I’d rather we start with the full list of ableist insults in regular conversation. But the one new business phrase I want to throw into the sun is “bio-break.” As in, “we’re going to allow for 5 minutes between your video calls to acknowledge that you are a physical organism”. It’s as if you took everything I hate about work and smashed it into a cute little hyphenated monster.
posted by q*ben at 5:14 PM on January 4, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by q*ben at 5:14 PM on January 4, 2022 [10 favorites]
Haven't we arrived at the future where "smell you later" replaces "goodbye" yet?
Sadly, COVID put this one to rest. Nobody smells anything anymore!
posted by pwnguin at 5:23 PM on January 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
Sadly, COVID put this one to rest. Nobody smells anything anymore!
posted by pwnguin at 5:23 PM on January 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
It’s become wistful -
I’ll smell you thenposted by clew at 5:43 PM on January 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
Don’t know where, don’t know when…
Okay but what do we think about "enjoyed a liquidity event"?
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:34 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:34 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
No worries can occupy the same space as ‘you’re welcome’, but explicitly has a social leveling component.
An Aussie would rarely say ‘you’re welcome’ to being thanked for something in an informal setting (with formal here meaning tea with the queen).
No worries can be accompanied by a ‘cheers’ or ‘good on you’.
What a lot of people don’t understand is that in the late 1990s in QLD they commenced to respond with a variation of ‘no worries’ that was ‘too easy, Campese.’
So please understand banning these words could release that lexicographic concern.
“Too easy” still lingers, and I quite like it, if you can leave the rugby brothers on the sideline.
posted by bystander at 7:52 PM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
An Aussie would rarely say ‘you’re welcome’ to being thanked for something in an informal setting (with formal here meaning tea with the queen).
No worries can be accompanied by a ‘cheers’ or ‘good on you’.
What a lot of people don’t understand is that in the late 1990s in QLD they commenced to respond with a variation of ‘no worries’ that was ‘too easy, Campese.’
So please understand banning these words could release that lexicographic concern.
“Too easy” still lingers, and I quite like it, if you can leave the rugby brothers on the sideline.
posted by bystander at 7:52 PM on January 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
At some point I started responding to “thank you” with “sure” for friends and family, and “not at all” in work/stranger/acquaintance situations.
posted by Mister Moofoo at 10:02 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Mister Moofoo at 10:02 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Someone suggested responding to "How are you?" with "Not much, what's up with you?" and seeing how many people even notice. Not many, I'd bet.
How are y'now?
posted by flabdablet at 11:30 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
How are y'now?
posted by flabdablet at 11:30 PM on January 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
“You're welcome” sounds a bit passive-aggressive, like something someone might say if they felt that what they did was not acknowledged.
posted by acb at 1:24 AM on January 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by acb at 1:24 AM on January 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
I would think one should only “enjoy a liquidity event” in the privacy of one’s own home or in special clubs. Show consideration for others when enjoying your kinks.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:04 AM on January 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:04 AM on January 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
The latest Lexicon Valley features various Prescriptivist Jack Wagons Through The Ages, though I don’t think McWorter uses that precise lingo.
I did find it amusing that not one of the dissed usages on the “banished words list” was a word. Maybe one year “banished words list” will make the list and then like some metaphor that swallowed itself, it will vanish with a quiet “pop!” Thanks for the pointer.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 1:56 PM on January 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I did find it amusing that not one of the dissed usages on the “banished words list” was a word. Maybe one year “banished words list” will make the list and then like some metaphor that swallowed itself, it will vanish with a quiet “pop!” Thanks for the pointer.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 1:56 PM on January 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Here's one I'd like to kill with fire* :
Me : How's it going?
Them : It's going.
Annoying on a couple levels. First off. "How's it going?" is an expression. A standard greeting. A way for one human to say to another, "Hello fellow human, I acknowledge you, let us start a conversation." Nobody needs your life story.
"But wait," you say. "Why ask somebody how they're feeling if you don't want to hear their answer?" Fine, I'll give you that. But here's the thing : "It's going" tells me nothing. I would actually rather have them tell me their life story and why they're having a crap day and that their preferred brand of deodorant was discontinued or whatever. "It's going" is just kind of a needlessly snarky way of saying, "I see you're attempting to communicate with me. You fool! I shall outwit you by being a mild buzzkill!"
I once had a coworker whose only answer to "How's it going?" was always, without fail, "It's going." It annoyed me so much that eventually I just stopped asking him how it was going and would try to launch immediately into the meat of the conversation. It was awkward as hell, but I can only assume it was what he wanted.
* and yes, I know, you want to kill "kill with fire" with fire. This ain't my first rodeo.
posted by panama joe at 6:11 PM on January 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Me : How's it going?
Them : It's going.
Annoying on a couple levels. First off. "How's it going?" is an expression. A standard greeting. A way for one human to say to another, "Hello fellow human, I acknowledge you, let us start a conversation." Nobody needs your life story.
"But wait," you say. "Why ask somebody how they're feeling if you don't want to hear their answer?" Fine, I'll give you that. But here's the thing : "It's going" tells me nothing. I would actually rather have them tell me their life story and why they're having a crap day and that their preferred brand of deodorant was discontinued or whatever. "It's going" is just kind of a needlessly snarky way of saying, "I see you're attempting to communicate with me. You fool! I shall outwit you by being a mild buzzkill!"
I once had a coworker whose only answer to "How's it going?" was always, without fail, "It's going." It annoyed me so much that eventually I just stopped asking him how it was going and would try to launch immediately into the meat of the conversation. It was awkward as hell, but I can only assume it was what he wanted.
* and yes, I know, you want to kill "kill with fire" with fire. This ain't my first rodeo.
posted by panama joe at 6:11 PM on January 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think the only meaningless pleasantry of a greeting that gets me bent out of shape is "What do you say, Crane Shot?" I have no idea how to respond to that. Like, am I supposed to come up with something clever on the spot? Just say hello, don't give me homework.
posted by Crane Shot at 8:58 PM on January 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Crane Shot at 8:58 PM on January 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
"It's going" feels like a direct analogue to:
ca va?
ca va.
posted by Ferreous at 9:09 PM on January 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
ca va?
ca va.
posted by Ferreous at 9:09 PM on January 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
In Dutch, "het gaat" ("it's going") means that something is not great but also not horrible. So, in other words, that is a perfectly cromulent answer to the question "Hoe gaat het?"
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:39 AM on January 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:39 AM on January 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
MetaFilter never fails to amaze me at how many people can still be put off by what I thought were the very safest of social skills. Saying "You're welcome" when someone thanks you? Replying to "How's it going" with something non-committal between fine and bad like "It's going"? Still possible you just made an enemy instead of managing a basic a social interaction. (A previous thread revealed the sad news that "folks" is not a safe gender-neutral substitute for "guys.")
I guess there really are no foolproof rules you can substitute for actually getting to know people and listening to what language means to them. But it's discouraging to see how hard it is to be kind to strangers.
posted by straight at 10:48 AM on January 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
I guess there really are no foolproof rules you can substitute for actually getting to know people and listening to what language means to them. But it's discouraging to see how hard it is to be kind to strangers.
posted by straight at 10:48 AM on January 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
"No worries" or "it's going" are not in any way unkind. They're just not the exact traditional format some people expect/demand. That's on them.
posted by Ferreous at 1:57 PM on January 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 1:57 PM on January 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
Saying that things are “good” when asked how it’s going has become difficult for me. Today is much better then November, but it was shit compared to 2015. I see the same on talk shows nowadays where the guest usually replies that things are good and then stumbles to clarify what they mean.
posted by soelo at 2:38 PM on January 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by soelo at 2:38 PM on January 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter never fails to amaze me at how many people can still be put off by what I thought were the very safest of social skills.
So true. The aggressive snowflakiness has really led to discourse rot in mefi. So much is taboo, with people exercising veto power over perfectly rational topics.
posted by lathrop at 3:46 PM on January 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
So true. The aggressive snowflakiness has really led to discourse rot in mefi. So much is taboo, with people exercising veto power over perfectly rational topics.
posted by lathrop at 3:46 PM on January 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
Re: Thank you/You're Welcome/No Worries, etc.:
I sometimes use "no worries" and I often internally cringe when I do so because in my geographic location it is used largely by people half my age. When I use it, it is completely analogous to "Don't even mention it." as in... mostly when I seem to think someone has a huge ask of me or has seriously inconvenienced me in some way.
I can't recall saying "You're welcome" in ~15-20 years. Largely, for reasons others have mentioned about how it seems like the one saying you're welcome is acknowledging that they did something outside of the norm for person saying thank you. I am also fully aware that generation(s) older than me can sometimes get upset if one doesn't reply that way.
Instead, my reply almost always gravitates towards "My pleasure!" I have never had a complaint saying that. I think it helps that when I say it, I mean it.
Most of the last 15-20 years have been food service and I did enjoy taking care of my guests, so it really was a pleasure. (I know, many people in US find food service hell. Rightfully so. I had a lot of really great regulars, so it was really the best that one could expect from food service.)
The last 6 years or so have been tech support but for, essentially a "small" group of users (2,000?). Given the nature of their work, I know most of them surprisingly well and generally call them by their first name (the range from contract workers to people with multiple terminal degrees in multiple fields. Not sure I'll ever understand why someone would want to be a J.D. and an M.D. but good on them.)
For... I dunno... 50 - 200 of them, I'll pepper in "any time", "of course", "for you? anything", "always". Those are my peeps. We've been in the trenches together in just six short years! of dealing with some stuff.
But, largely, "my pleasure" works.
***************
Re: How's it going
I will reply "it's going", but again, it's almost always in a work relationship with someone I am really close with. When I say it, I assume they understand I am somewhere between "I am having a relatively shitty day, but don't want to talk about it or don't want to burden you with it" to "This day is fucking awful and I just want to leave. I am still here to help you if you need, but all those assholes out there? They can wait until tomorrow." I believe the same from them and I adjust accordingly. Obviously, this is a YMMV thing as someone else in the thread has a different perspective.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 6:49 PM on January 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
I sometimes use "no worries" and I often internally cringe when I do so because in my geographic location it is used largely by people half my age. When I use it, it is completely analogous to "Don't even mention it." as in... mostly when I seem to think someone has a huge ask of me or has seriously inconvenienced me in some way.
I can't recall saying "You're welcome" in ~15-20 years. Largely, for reasons others have mentioned about how it seems like the one saying you're welcome is acknowledging that they did something outside of the norm for person saying thank you. I am also fully aware that generation(s) older than me can sometimes get upset if one doesn't reply that way.
Instead, my reply almost always gravitates towards "My pleasure!" I have never had a complaint saying that. I think it helps that when I say it, I mean it.
Most of the last 15-20 years have been food service and I did enjoy taking care of my guests, so it really was a pleasure. (I know, many people in US find food service hell. Rightfully so. I had a lot of really great regulars, so it was really the best that one could expect from food service.)
The last 6 years or so have been tech support but for, essentially a "small" group of users (2,000?). Given the nature of their work, I know most of them surprisingly well and generally call them by their first name (the range from contract workers to people with multiple terminal degrees in multiple fields. Not sure I'll ever understand why someone would want to be a J.D. and an M.D. but good on them.)
For... I dunno... 50 - 200 of them, I'll pepper in "any time", "of course", "for you? anything", "always". Those are my peeps. We've been in the trenches together in just six short years! of dealing with some stuff.
But, largely, "my pleasure" works.
***************
Re: How's it going
I will reply "it's going", but again, it's almost always in a work relationship with someone I am really close with. When I say it, I assume they understand I am somewhere between "I am having a relatively shitty day, but don't want to talk about it or don't want to burden you with it" to "This day is fucking awful and I just want to leave. I am still here to help you if you need, but all those assholes out there? They can wait until tomorrow." I believe the same from them and I adjust accordingly. Obviously, this is a YMMV thing as someone else in the thread has a different perspective.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 6:49 PM on January 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Re: How's it going
I've adopted a system that I'm sure many MeFites in this thread would consider a horrible affront, but it works for me.
Q: How are you? (or 'How's it going?', or something of that nature)
A: Oh, I'd give it [n] out of 10. You?
The gist of it is that a non-committal response is usually a 7 or an 8. If I don't know you well, you're only ever going to get a 7 or an 8.
For people I do know fairly well:
A 9 is a day when I've had some particularly good luck or good news, so feel free to celebreate my good fortune, or not.
A 10 is some major life event that I'd really like you to ask me about, because I'm very excited. I'm probably going to tell you anyway.
5 or 6 is a day that's 'meh'. I'm tired, or fed up with my job or something. No need to ask. "It's going."
3 or 4 is a shitty day, and I wouldn't turn down a kind word if you have one to spare.
2 is a bereavement or something else deeply unhappy. Please chip in with some support if you feel able.
1... well, why are you asking me how I am when I'm curled up on the kitchen floor sobbing?
What works is that people seem to have an intrinsic understanding of what the numbers mean. I don't need to explain any of the above. For the most part, it's something light, but does impart a small modicum of information. Nobody has ever had to ask me to clarify, and people seem to like it. I don't do it all the time though. That would be get tiresome quickly.
posted by pipeski at 5:44 AM on January 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
I've adopted a system that I'm sure many MeFites in this thread would consider a horrible affront, but it works for me.
Q: How are you? (or 'How's it going?', or something of that nature)
A: Oh, I'd give it [n] out of 10. You?
The gist of it is that a non-committal response is usually a 7 or an 8. If I don't know you well, you're only ever going to get a 7 or an 8.
For people I do know fairly well:
A 9 is a day when I've had some particularly good luck or good news, so feel free to celebreate my good fortune, or not.
A 10 is some major life event that I'd really like you to ask me about, because I'm very excited. I'm probably going to tell you anyway.
5 or 6 is a day that's 'meh'. I'm tired, or fed up with my job or something. No need to ask. "It's going."
3 or 4 is a shitty day, and I wouldn't turn down a kind word if you have one to spare.
2 is a bereavement or something else deeply unhappy. Please chip in with some support if you feel able.
1... well, why are you asking me how I am when I'm curled up on the kitchen floor sobbing?
What works is that people seem to have an intrinsic understanding of what the numbers mean. I don't need to explain any of the above. For the most part, it's something light, but does impart a small modicum of information. Nobody has ever had to ask me to clarify, and people seem to like it. I don't do it all the time though. That would be get tiresome quickly.
posted by pipeski at 5:44 AM on January 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
"Gaslighting" has been watered down to basically mean "lying and expecting to get away with it".
It's even worse -- in my observation, it's been watered down to mean "asserting a viewpoint that I disagree with." Essentially, it's a way of passive-aggressively claiming that someone who is disagreeing with you about a situation is actually trying to hoax you.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 3:42 PM on January 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's even worse -- in my observation, it's been watered down to mean "asserting a viewpoint that I disagree with." Essentially, it's a way of passive-aggressively claiming that someone who is disagreeing with you about a situation is actually trying to hoax you.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 3:42 PM on January 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
all I know is the worst gas-lighter I've ever known accused pretty much everyone who disagreed with them of gaslighting.
posted by philip-random at 3:47 PM on January 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 3:47 PM on January 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yes, that's the thing about this diffuse new use of "gaslighting" -- it's almost a form of gaslighting itself.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 4:00 PM on January 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 4:00 PM on January 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
“If I’m not worried, I don’t want anyone telling me not to worry,” a contributor explicated.
That's not what "no worries" means to me, at least. I'm saying that I, the person who did the favour or thing, am not perturbed by having to do it/having done it. I'm not telling you not to have any worries, I'm saying that the thing you got me to do didn't cause me any.
I have similar issues with the reasoning behind most of the other words, but I don't want to dominate the thread. Needless to say, I think the authors of the piece are at best engaging in a lot of wilful misunderstanding of their topics.
posted by Dysk at 3:28 AM on January 4, 2022 [108 favorites]