'A guy can go out there and I mean, he can fall into a black hole'
January 20, 2022 8:59 AM Subscribe
Brookside, Alabama, a town of 1,253 just north of Birmingham, reported just 55 serious crimes to the state in the entire eight years between 2011 and 2018. But in 2018 it began building a police empire, hiring more and more officers to blanket its six miles of roads and mile-and-a-half jurisdiction on Interstate 22. By 2020 Brookside made more misdemeanor arrests than it has residents. Months of research and dozens of interviews by AL.com found that Brookside’s finances are rocket-fueled by tickets and aggressive policing. In a two-year period between 2018 and 2020 Brookside revenues from fines and forfeitures soared more than 640 percent and now make up half the city’s total income. And the police chief has called for more.
The growth has come with trouble to match. Brookside officers have been accused in lawsuits of fabricating charges, using racist language and “making up laws” to stack counts on passersby. Defendants must pay thousands in fines and fees – or pay for costly appeals to state court – and poorer residents or passersby fall into patterns of debt they cannot easily escape.
“Brookside is a poster child for policing for profit,” said Carla Crowder, the director of Alabama Appleseed Center for Law & Justice, a nonprofit devoted to justice and equity. “We are not safer because of it.”
Advocates for justice reform, cops in other jurisdictions, even Jefferson County’s top law enforcement officials, have begun to question the town’s tactics. “It’s my understanding that a guy can go out there and I mean, he can fall into a black hole,” Jefferson County District Attorney Danny Carr said of drivers getting entangled financially. “You know, we’ve had a lot of issues with Brookside.”
The reporter, John Archibald, has been one of the best for a long time, a Pulitzer winner in 2018 for his columns, and has been posting lots of followups and related stories on his Twitter account. Including some doozies, like:
Brookside police used a controversial facial recognition system;
Another Alabama county likes to put ankle monitors on people not convicted of crimes-- and make them pay for it; and
Brookside police used a racial slur against a Baptist minister and threatened him.
The Pulitzers for 2022 won't be announced for another 14-plus months, but (prediction) you can get a head start on the winners right here.
The growth has come with trouble to match. Brookside officers have been accused in lawsuits of fabricating charges, using racist language and “making up laws” to stack counts on passersby. Defendants must pay thousands in fines and fees – or pay for costly appeals to state court – and poorer residents or passersby fall into patterns of debt they cannot easily escape.
“Brookside is a poster child for policing for profit,” said Carla Crowder, the director of Alabama Appleseed Center for Law & Justice, a nonprofit devoted to justice and equity. “We are not safer because of it.”
Advocates for justice reform, cops in other jurisdictions, even Jefferson County’s top law enforcement officials, have begun to question the town’s tactics. “It’s my understanding that a guy can go out there and I mean, he can fall into a black hole,” Jefferson County District Attorney Danny Carr said of drivers getting entangled financially. “You know, we’ve had a lot of issues with Brookside.”
The reporter, John Archibald, has been one of the best for a long time, a Pulitzer winner in 2018 for his columns, and has been posting lots of followups and related stories on his Twitter account. Including some doozies, like:
Brookside police used a controversial facial recognition system;
Another Alabama county likes to put ankle monitors on people not convicted of crimes-- and make them pay for it; and
Brookside police used a racial slur against a Baptist minister and threatened him.
The Pulitzers for 2022 won't be announced for another 14-plus months, but (prediction) you can get a head start on the winners right here.
I think "ABOLISH the police" might be the one worth going for...
posted by miguelcervantes at 9:13 AM on January 20, 2022 [43 favorites]
posted by miguelcervantes at 9:13 AM on January 20, 2022 [43 favorites]
Admittedly I did not rtf already, but wouldn't the income be zeroed out by the police salaries? Ugh it's such a horrible thing I can't read it.
posted by Glinn at 9:15 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 9:15 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
I mean, I'm cool with the fire department, but I don't want to triple their budget and send them out to cruise the streets in combat gear, kicking the shit out of people they think might be fire hazards, and issuing huge fines for safety violations.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:20 AM on January 20, 2022 [27 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:20 AM on January 20, 2022 [27 favorites]
It sounds more like a gang with the support of the mayor and courts instead of a police force. Some quotes from the article:
- "...just one of the 10 Brookside vehicles is painted with police striping, but nine others bear no emblems..."
- "...officers wear gray uniforms with no Brookside insignias."
- "The names of the officers were not listed on the tickets in secretive Brookside."
- "[the city budget] did not feature a breakout of the police department."
- "Asked in December how many officers were on staff, [the police chief] refused to say, citing “security” concerns..."
posted by meowzilla at 9:24 AM on January 20, 2022 [73 favorites]
- "...just one of the 10 Brookside vehicles is painted with police striping, but nine others bear no emblems..."
- "...officers wear gray uniforms with no Brookside insignias."
- "The names of the officers were not listed on the tickets in secretive Brookside."
- "[the city budget] did not feature a breakout of the police department."
- "Asked in December how many officers were on staff, [the police chief] refused to say, citing “security” concerns..."
posted by meowzilla at 9:24 AM on January 20, 2022 [73 favorites]
Oop missed the big one:
"[The mayor and the police chief] said neither the town nor the police department relies on the revenue officers bring in. In fact, they said in November they didn’t know how that money is spent."
posted by meowzilla at 9:26 AM on January 20, 2022 [43 favorites]
"[The mayor and the police chief] said neither the town nor the police department relies on the revenue officers bring in. In fact, they said in November they didn’t know how that money is spent."
posted by meowzilla at 9:26 AM on January 20, 2022 [43 favorites]
My mind is perpetually boggled that these are the people (these rogue types of police forces, and, frankly, most cops) who are really taking away people's liberties, and yet the party that enables them is voted into office time and again by idiots who think they need to be "safer".
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:32 AM on January 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:32 AM on January 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
I'm certain this isn't just one dinky town in Alabama, of course. It's all over the South. This is just the one a Pulitzer-Prize winning journalist chose to investigate. Dirty cops who get sacrificed from other departments for being really bad (which doesn't change the department culture itself) wind up in any old Podunkville with a couple miles of Interstate to set up speed traps on. They can just pig out on travellers and the townsfolk that don't fit the appropriate racial/cultural paradigm.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:38 AM on January 20, 2022 [21 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:38 AM on January 20, 2022 [21 favorites]
and yet the party that enables them is voted into office time and again by idiots who think they need to be "safer".
I would wager that the party that enables them is voted into office again and again because they are capitalizing on the fears some people in smaller towns may have for big cities. Why, Mr. Brookside citizen, look at what's happening in places like New York! It's a place where a man can just push a woman in front of a subway! Do you want that kind of thing happening here in Brookside?
If you play to someone's fears, the fact that Brookside doesn't even have a subway might escape their mind.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:38 AM on January 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
I would wager that the party that enables them is voted into office again and again because they are capitalizing on the fears some people in smaller towns may have for big cities. Why, Mr. Brookside citizen, look at what's happening in places like New York! It's a place where a man can just push a woman in front of a subway! Do you want that kind of thing happening here in Brookside?
If you play to someone's fears, the fact that Brookside doesn't even have a subway might escape their mind.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:38 AM on January 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
I mean, Dukes of Hazzard was not in any way an exaggeration.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:41 AM on January 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:41 AM on January 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
As a European it occurs to me (rightly or wrongly) that the US has too many types of police force and would probably be better with fewer, and would also be better with more central funding.
I remember being around the MIT area in Cambridge, MA, and you could have mall cops, the campus cops, city cops and state troopers, and then the FBI, all potentially with different levels of jurisdiction.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 9:45 AM on January 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
I remember being around the MIT area in Cambridge, MA, and you could have mall cops, the campus cops, city cops and state troopers, and then the FBI, all potentially with different levels of jurisdiction.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 9:45 AM on January 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Haven’t some Florida towns been doing this for years?
posted by Melismata at 9:45 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Melismata at 9:45 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Missouri had a famous example of this, Mack's Creek, in the 1990s.
Then later we had an even more famous example, Ferguson (as well as a boatload of other communities, mostly in that same part of the state), in the 2010s.
FWIW the conservative-state solution to this was to limit city income from traffic fines to 45% (killed off the Mack's Creek problem) and now 20%. (They were talking about 12.5% back in the day but I guess that was a few percentage points too far.)
Speeding and other traffic violations are in fact an under-appreciated safety danger. In the U>S., traffic fatalities are shooting it out with firearms to see which will be the more murderous in the long term. Recent stats are 41,000 deaths due to traffic and 45,000 from firearms.
And that is not even taking account of the millions of injuries and other destruction due to traffic collisions. Many, many thousands of those injuries are serious and life-altering for the victims - some of whom are in the cars but many of whom are innocent bystanders who just happened to be caught up in the crossfire.
Regardless, the point of traffic enforcement - whether by police patrol or automated camera (which holds some promise of being more fair but has a boatload of problems of its own) - has to be improving the public safety not raising money to support the city or even the police department.
As soon as those two functions are mixed together, abuse becomes inevitable - it's like the dictionary definition of "conflict of interest."
As soon as you realize that the purpose of the activity is changing behavior to improve the public safety rather than raising $$$ - and then set up the system so that the distinction is baked into the way business is done - a lot of the problems start to solve themselves.
posted by flug at 9:46 AM on January 20, 2022 [14 favorites]
Then later we had an even more famous example, Ferguson (as well as a boatload of other communities, mostly in that same part of the state), in the 2010s.
FWIW the conservative-state solution to this was to limit city income from traffic fines to 45% (killed off the Mack's Creek problem) and now 20%. (They were talking about 12.5% back in the day but I guess that was a few percentage points too far.)
Speeding and other traffic violations are in fact an under-appreciated safety danger. In the U>S., traffic fatalities are shooting it out with firearms to see which will be the more murderous in the long term. Recent stats are 41,000 deaths due to traffic and 45,000 from firearms.
And that is not even taking account of the millions of injuries and other destruction due to traffic collisions. Many, many thousands of those injuries are serious and life-altering for the victims - some of whom are in the cars but many of whom are innocent bystanders who just happened to be caught up in the crossfire.
Regardless, the point of traffic enforcement - whether by police patrol or automated camera (which holds some promise of being more fair but has a boatload of problems of its own) - has to be improving the public safety not raising money to support the city or even the police department.
As soon as those two functions are mixed together, abuse becomes inevitable - it's like the dictionary definition of "conflict of interest."
As soon as you realize that the purpose of the activity is changing behavior to improve the public safety rather than raising $$$ - and then set up the system so that the distinction is baked into the way business is done - a lot of the problems start to solve themselves.
posted by flug at 9:46 AM on January 20, 2022 [14 favorites]
I remember being around the MIT area in Cambridge, MA, and you could have mall cops, the campus cops, city cops and state troopers, and then the FBI, all potentially with different levels of jurisdiction.
It's wild to me how many different agencies have their own police forces. Mall cops are generally "private security" and don't have any deputized powers, but you also missed the sheriff's office (county-level) and transit police that might show up in this area. And then there's the judicial police that manage (federal) courts, airport police, and Amtrak police.
Just about every US federal agency has their own police force. I have to go to DC for work occasionally, and the number of different uniforms is astounding. One of the buildings I frequent is home to the Federal Protective Service, which is a police service subordinate to the Department of Homeland Security - it's like a department to police the police buildings!
posted by backseatpilot at 10:01 AM on January 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
It's wild to me how many different agencies have their own police forces. Mall cops are generally "private security" and don't have any deputized powers, but you also missed the sheriff's office (county-level) and transit police that might show up in this area. And then there's the judicial police that manage (federal) courts, airport police, and Amtrak police.
Just about every US federal agency has their own police force. I have to go to DC for work occasionally, and the number of different uniforms is astounding. One of the buildings I frequent is home to the Federal Protective Service, which is a police service subordinate to the Department of Homeland Security - it's like a department to police the police buildings!
posted by backseatpilot at 10:01 AM on January 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
Cripes. I do wonder how things would change if the police departments who get to keep the money from seizures and fines also had to pay for the resulting lawsuits out of their own budgets. Obviously we can't rely on city and county officials to make that happen.
posted by eotvos at 10:01 AM on January 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by eotvos at 10:01 AM on January 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
I should have had this in the post: the reporter is asking for anyone who's had a run-in with Brookside police to contact him at jarchibald@al.com. So, any MeFites have Alabama roots or acquaintances, feel free to pass it on.
posted by martin q blank at 10:08 AM on January 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by martin q blank at 10:08 AM on January 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think "ABOLISH the police" might be the one worth going for...
I can literally not think of a worse, more self-defeating motto. It needs to DIAF.
I get that most people who say "abolish the police" think they're being clever, and actually mean something more nuanced, like "abolish the police and replace it with [something] which will serve most of the same legitimate crime-deterrence and investigative justice functions", but leading with "abolish" is insanely bad framing. Tucker Carlson couldn't come up with a way of getting voters to knee-jerk dismiss anything you say after that faster.
If you want to replace the police with something else, for the love of god lead with that.
Saying "hey, instead of spending $X million on armored personnel carriers for cops, we could spend that same amount on [pick your favorite initiative], and you would be safer as a result, and oh by the way here's the evidence..." at least has a shot of convincing someone who's on the fence. Which is increasingly a lot of people—but a lot of them basically go along with the status quo because they don't think there's a better solution available.
If we want people to stop voting for police states, there needs to be a coherent vision for something else, something better, but—very critically—where they still don't get mugged at the ATM or come home to find their house ransacked.
The onus is always on reformers to communicate their vision of what a post-reform society would look like; those who support the status quo just need to make people question whether it's possible. Most American voters (particularly the suburban and rural ones that you absolutely need to effect change at the Federal level) rather plainly do not believe that a society without police is workable. "Let's take away the police and see what the fuck happens! Maybe it'll be fun!" is not going to win hearts and minds.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:10 AM on January 20, 2022 [42 favorites]
I can literally not think of a worse, more self-defeating motto. It needs to DIAF.
I get that most people who say "abolish the police" think they're being clever, and actually mean something more nuanced, like "abolish the police and replace it with [something] which will serve most of the same legitimate crime-deterrence and investigative justice functions", but leading with "abolish" is insanely bad framing. Tucker Carlson couldn't come up with a way of getting voters to knee-jerk dismiss anything you say after that faster.
If you want to replace the police with something else, for the love of god lead with that.
Saying "hey, instead of spending $X million on armored personnel carriers for cops, we could spend that same amount on [pick your favorite initiative], and you would be safer as a result, and oh by the way here's the evidence..." at least has a shot of convincing someone who's on the fence. Which is increasingly a lot of people—but a lot of them basically go along with the status quo because they don't think there's a better solution available.
If we want people to stop voting for police states, there needs to be a coherent vision for something else, something better, but—very critically—where they still don't get mugged at the ATM or come home to find their house ransacked.
The onus is always on reformers to communicate their vision of what a post-reform society would look like; those who support the status quo just need to make people question whether it's possible. Most American voters (particularly the suburban and rural ones that you absolutely need to effect change at the Federal level) rather plainly do not believe that a society without police is workable. "Let's take away the police and see what the fuck happens! Maybe it'll be fun!" is not going to win hearts and minds.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:10 AM on January 20, 2022 [42 favorites]
I mean, the framing is that this brings them money and "rocket-fuels" their budget, but
posted by trig at 10:12 AM on January 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
As more tickets brought in more money, the town began to spend much more. From 2018 to 2020, spending on police rose from $79,000 to $524,000, a 560% increase. The town’s administrative expenditures rose 40% and overall spending jumped 112%, from $553,000 in 2018 to $1.2 million in 2020.They might make up half the total income, but they also make up half the total costs. Racket is right and should be the entire framing.
posted by trig at 10:12 AM on January 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
It's not just the South, for what it's worth. Rosendale WI is notorious for the speeding-ticket racket; it's not exactly on an interstate, but it's on the main drag to the Fox Cities and Green Bay from points southwest.
posted by humbug at 10:16 AM on January 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by humbug at 10:16 AM on January 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
Yeah, this feels like a gang operating under cover of authority. It's so horrifying, and so persistent. Ferguson did this to a lesser extent and got into massive trouble with the DOJ.
However what Brookside did was look at the Ferguson example as a go-by, not a warning.
posted by suelac at 10:17 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
However what Brookside did was look at the Ferguson example as a go-by, not a warning.
posted by suelac at 10:17 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
"[The mayor and the police chief] said neither the town nor the police department relies on the revenue officers bring in. In fact, they said in November they didn’t know how that money is spent."
Uh, mister Mayor and Chief "But That's Worse. You, You Do Get How That's Worse, Right?"
Just about every US federal agency has their own police force.
The USPS, the Department of Agriculture and NASA all have armed agents with arrest power.
posted by Mitheral at 10:24 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Uh, mister Mayor and Chief "But That's Worse. You, You Do Get How That's Worse, Right?"
Just about every US federal agency has their own police force.
The USPS, the Department of Agriculture and NASA all have armed agents with arrest power.
posted by Mitheral at 10:24 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yes, didn’t a post office guy detain Steve Bannon or something?
posted by Melismata at 10:27 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Melismata at 10:27 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
For those skimming (or skipping) the article, note that they’re using an Alabama law against driving for long in the left lane of an interstate to write scads of tickets from their neighboring interstate. That’s a particularly lucrative grift since Brookside is next to Birmingham, our largest city. Many folks traveling that stretch are passing through on their way into or out of Birmingham and so are more likely to flat out pay the ticket or ignore it, which gets them even more money in the long term.
I’m in a different part of the state and haven’t ever driven that stretch of interstate but I’m checking with friends to see if any of them have so I can point them in reporter’s direction.
posted by sgranade at 10:37 AM on January 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
I’m in a different part of the state and haven’t ever driven that stretch of interstate but I’m checking with friends to see if any of them have so I can point them in reporter’s direction.
posted by sgranade at 10:37 AM on January 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
For those saying that "abolish the police" must be reframed - black folk have been calling for justice and pointing out the problems with American policing ever since there has been American policing. We have begged. We have cajoled. We have appealed to a hypothetical conscience. We have demanded. We have attempted to assimilate. We have attempted to form our own communities. Every attempt has been met with the same indifference and hostility.
Telling us now that the actual problem is framing is fucking insulting.
posted by anansi at 10:40 AM on January 20, 2022 [85 favorites]
Telling us now that the actual problem is framing is fucking insulting.
posted by anansi at 10:40 AM on January 20, 2022 [85 favorites]
Just about every US federal agency has their own police force.
Here in DC, there are at least 36 separate law enforcement agencies (13 DC and 23 federal active in DC). If you consider the National Zoo Police to be separate from the Smithsonian Police, make it 37.
As to framing, I favor "unburden the police." It's the standard argument from the left: Problems occur when police are involved in many things they shouldn't be - mental health crises, minor motor vehicle offenses, etc. But for the pro-police element, the argument is that police can't fight bad guys if they're distracted by this extraneous work.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 10:51 AM on January 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
Here in DC, there are at least 36 separate law enforcement agencies (13 DC and 23 federal active in DC). If you consider the National Zoo Police to be separate from the Smithsonian Police, make it 37.
As to framing, I favor "unburden the police." It's the standard argument from the left: Problems occur when police are involved in many things they shouldn't be - mental health crises, minor motor vehicle offenses, etc. But for the pro-police element, the argument is that police can't fight bad guys if they're distracted by this extraneous work.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 10:51 AM on January 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
So part of me is having the knee-jerk reaction "defund the police".
I think we've graduated to "defenestrate the police."
posted by Mayor West at 11:02 AM on January 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
I think we've graduated to "defenestrate the police."
posted by Mayor West at 11:02 AM on January 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
Hey, let's not talk about the obvious criminal enterprise described in the article, or reforming civil forfeiture laws, or anything concrete like that. Let's just get into another argument about the semantics of police reform campaign slogans!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:13 AM on January 20, 2022 [31 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:13 AM on January 20, 2022 [31 favorites]
And there's always a riot control vehicle.
posted by El Curioso at 11:16 AM on January 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by El Curioso at 11:16 AM on January 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
Radical slogans are sort of bound to be unpopular by definition, no? Who is this kind of “the optics could be better” take even addressed to? One doesn’t see mainstream politicians using slogans like “abolish the police” much, because they already know in their role it’s not the thing to say. But American politics doesn’t really do party lines.
posted by atoxyl at 11:16 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 11:16 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Black Lives and Spatial Matters is a good book on similar situations (but less gang-like) outside St. Louis.
posted by sepviva at 11:20 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by sepviva at 11:20 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
If there’s something weird that happens with this it’s that the low-stakes environment of the internet makes it easy for people to say radical things that feel powerful to say, without really having to commitment to make anything radical happen.
posted by atoxyl at 11:20 AM on January 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 11:20 AM on January 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Well, nothing else has worked so I'm on team "abolish the police". If someone has a better solution they can convince it's actually better. Otherwise I'm sticking to my guns.
Why should the burden of ending oppression fall on the oppressed*?
*I'm not a member of an oppressed class so I have the privilege to choose to only be an ally but I try.
posted by VTX at 11:27 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Why should the burden of ending oppression fall on the oppressed*?
*I'm not a member of an oppressed class so I have the privilege to choose to only be an ally but I try.
posted by VTX at 11:27 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
"[The mayor and the police chief] said neither the town nor the police department relies on the revenue officers bring in. In fact, they said in November they didn’t know how that money is spent."
And they aren't looking because they know if they did they'd find a thinly veiled extortion scheme.
This is the end state of all policing, I think, when fines issued are accrued to the police budget but the costs of lawsuits and liability for police misconduct comes out of the general coffers.
posted by mhoye at 11:29 AM on January 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
And they aren't looking because they know if they did they'd find a thinly veiled extortion scheme.
This is the end state of all policing, I think, when fines issued are accrued to the police budget but the costs of lawsuits and liability for police misconduct comes out of the general coffers.
posted by mhoye at 11:29 AM on January 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
And there's always a riot control vehicle.
Demilitarize the police.
posted by mhoye at 11:30 AM on January 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
Demilitarize the police.
posted by mhoye at 11:30 AM on January 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
a) acab
b) demilitarize. step one, all uniforms, tactical gear, and vehicles must be barbie pink. no black, blue, green, grey faux combat bs.
c) "money from seizures and fines also had to pay for the resulting lawsuits out of their own budgets." that's union contracts mostly. federal legislation to fix it.
d) i had a long talk with a maga about 'defund the police'. he was actually receptive once i explained 'defund the police' means something like:
constrain police departments as public safety departments. they should not respond to anything the doesn't clearly require guns or investigative activity. establish other departments like 'mental health response', 'homeless assistance'...then allocate funding across those departments for high effectiveness for all orgs.
but, my friend, that makes a horrible chant, and doesn't fit on a sign.
posted by j_curiouser at 11:46 AM on January 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
b) demilitarize. step one, all uniforms, tactical gear, and vehicles must be barbie pink. no black, blue, green, grey faux combat bs.
c) "money from seizures and fines also had to pay for the resulting lawsuits out of their own budgets." that's union contracts mostly. federal legislation to fix it.
d) i had a long talk with a maga about 'defund the police'. he was actually receptive once i explained 'defund the police' means something like:
constrain police departments as public safety departments. they should not respond to anything the doesn't clearly require guns or investigative activity. establish other departments like 'mental health response', 'homeless assistance'...then allocate funding across those departments for high effectiveness for all orgs.
but, my friend, that makes a horrible chant, and doesn't fit on a sign.
posted by j_curiouser at 11:46 AM on January 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
I guess it's time to admit that induced demand also applies to "policing."
Also:
posted by klanawa at 12:03 PM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Also:
“Turn yourself in. If we have to come get ya, we’ll make you famous!”Lifted verbatim from Billy the Kid in Young Guns 2.
posted by klanawa at 12:03 PM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
this aligns with previous research i've seen from Schrody & Huston et al.
posted by glonous keming at 12:06 PM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by glonous keming at 12:06 PM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
they’re using an Alabama law against driving for long in the left lane of an interstate to write scads of tickets
In and of itself, that alone wouldn't be terrible. What makes even that part terrible is that they don't even bother making sure the people they accost are actually violating the law. I doubt they even have a mile and a half of the Interstate within their jurisdiction, but they freely admit they aren't actually following people for a mile and a half before stopping them for this violation.
There's a lot of other bizarre shit going on, like signing tickets with "Agent [initials]" and not wearing uniforms with insignia and how only one of their cars is marked in any way, but they aren't even getting the most basic part right.
posted by wierdo at 12:23 PM on January 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
In and of itself, that alone wouldn't be terrible. What makes even that part terrible is that they don't even bother making sure the people they accost are actually violating the law. I doubt they even have a mile and a half of the Interstate within their jurisdiction, but they freely admit they aren't actually following people for a mile and a half before stopping them for this violation.
There's a lot of other bizarre shit going on, like signing tickets with "Agent [initials]" and not wearing uniforms with insignia and how only one of their cars is marked in any way, but they aren't even getting the most basic part right.
posted by wierdo at 12:23 PM on January 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
John Oliver covered this in a few segments on this as well as the "civil asset forfeiture" mechanic. I believe the term of art he used was "the fuck barrel" or something? That's something catchy we can yell about!
The difference between how I was taught about police as a kid growing up with oodles of privilege, and the reality of the situation, is staggering.
posted by LegallyBread at 12:24 PM on January 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
The difference between how I was taught about police as a kid growing up with oodles of privilege, and the reality of the situation, is staggering.
posted by LegallyBread at 12:24 PM on January 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
This town is like the village of Linndale, OH on steroids. I guess we Cleveland folk should be glad they just give bs speeding tickets.
posted by greatalleycat at 12:38 PM on January 20, 2022
posted by greatalleycat at 12:38 PM on January 20, 2022
I LOVE Mr. Know-it-some's "unburden the police." Because that works across the board. I'm as much an ACAB guy as a lot of people, but I'm still empathetic to the fact that their job has to cover traffic incidents, angry armed people, angry, unarmed people, loose dogs, noise complaints, lost kids, and on and on. It's too much responsibility for one group to handle everything. Everybody on both sides agrees that half the time many of the people about whom the police are called would be better served with someone who doesn't need to carry a gun.
Unburdening the police potentially solves a lot of the problems people on the left have w/ police forces, and also has the bonus of providing better quality of life for a lot of people. AND it works for people on the right, as it shows a measure of respect to police by admitting that their jobs are HARD and it takes some of that away, allowing them to be better and more effective at actually helping people.
posted by nushustu at 1:41 PM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Unburdening the police potentially solves a lot of the problems people on the left have w/ police forces, and also has the bonus of providing better quality of life for a lot of people. AND it works for people on the right, as it shows a measure of respect to police by admitting that their jobs are HARD and it takes some of that away, allowing them to be better and more effective at actually helping people.
posted by nushustu at 1:41 PM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
abolish the police? abolish brookside! - if localities can't run uncorrupt departments then they shouldn't exist
also, how do they get to patrol a freeway that isn't inside the town limits? if it's because they're deputized by the county, which is the common practice, maybe the county needs to de-deputize them
posted by pyramid termite at 1:53 PM on January 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
also, how do they get to patrol a freeway that isn't inside the town limits? if it's because they're deputized by the county, which is the common practice, maybe the county needs to de-deputize them
posted by pyramid termite at 1:53 PM on January 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
The county is getting paid as well as the city, I'd wager...
posted by Windopaene at 2:28 PM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Windopaene at 2:28 PM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
A Rice University study found that Harris County, Texas (Houston) has 60 police agencies. That's for 4.7 million people.
posted by Bee'sWing at 3:13 PM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Bee'sWing at 3:13 PM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
(Side note: at this juncture, anyone claiming that police abolition proponents haven’t thought at length about or put forth well-developed ideas for alternatives to policing isn’t paying attention to the 2+ centuries of work, going back to the first abolitionists, doing just that. I haven’t even yet read more than two or three of the resources at the links below myself, and thus can’t really speak to the details; but it is clear that they exist.
Critical Resistance Resources for Addressing Harm, Accountability, and Healing, including many links under the following headings:
Toolkits, Reports, and Guides
Books, Zines, Journals
Articles, Essays, Statements
Workshops, Trainings, and Curricula
Multi-Media
Interpersonal Harm
Collective Accountability
Trauma and Healing
MPD150 Resources, including their #AbolitionReading Selected Articles. The first link has sub-headings (copied and pasted - apologies for the all caps):
BOOKS
WHAT IS ABOLITION? EXPLAINERS AND INTRODUCTIONS
MAKING THE CASE FOR ABOLITION
ABOLITION IN PRACTICE
ABOLITION IN PRACTICE: PART 2: SPECIFIC EXAMPLES
HOW DID WE GET HERE? HISTORY AND CONTEXT
UNREFORMABLE: ON POLICE AND PRISONS
ABOLITIONIST RESPONSES TO VIOLENCE
PRE-2020 ARTICLES (Minnesota-Specific)
PRE-2020 ARTICLES (Perspectives on Abolition)
ABOLITIONIST TOOLKITS & RESOURCE GUIDES
FURTHER READING AND RESOURCES
MPD150 Zines & Printable Resources
Defund the Police? An Abolition Curriculum
posted by eviemath at 3:32 PM on January 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
Critical Resistance Resources for Addressing Harm, Accountability, and Healing, including many links under the following headings:
Toolkits, Reports, and Guides
Books, Zines, Journals
Articles, Essays, Statements
Workshops, Trainings, and Curricula
Multi-Media
Interpersonal Harm
Collective Accountability
Trauma and Healing
MPD150 Resources, including their #AbolitionReading Selected Articles. The first link has sub-headings (copied and pasted - apologies for the all caps):
BOOKS
WHAT IS ABOLITION? EXPLAINERS AND INTRODUCTIONS
MAKING THE CASE FOR ABOLITION
ABOLITION IN PRACTICE
ABOLITION IN PRACTICE: PART 2: SPECIFIC EXAMPLES
HOW DID WE GET HERE? HISTORY AND CONTEXT
UNREFORMABLE: ON POLICE AND PRISONS
ABOLITIONIST RESPONSES TO VIOLENCE
PRE-2020 ARTICLES (Minnesota-Specific)
PRE-2020 ARTICLES (Perspectives on Abolition)
ABOLITIONIST TOOLKITS & RESOURCE GUIDES
FURTHER READING AND RESOURCES
MPD150 Zines & Printable Resources
Defund the Police? An Abolition Curriculum
The call for the abolishment of police, policing and the police state is not a new call. For centuries, Black and Indigenous people have called for the end of violence enacted on their bodies and communities by police. They have been calling for other possibilities that move us from the appearance of safety to truly safe and whole communities. In the wake of continued high profile police shootings across the United States, many people in the church pushed for an Anabaptist-oriented response and resources that helped us to move as a church into solidarity with the pain and brutality being felt and witnessed on Black, brown and Indigenous people. This curriculum is our response and invitation that we allow the Spirit to awaken our imagination to build a world where we can all be safe(r) and flourish without threats of violence.)
posted by eviemath at 3:32 PM on January 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
It's wild to me how many different agencies have their own police forces.
According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics' 2008 Census of State and Local Law Enforcement Agencies, Texas had 1,913 law enforcement agencies, the most of any state.
It always blows my mind how inefficient / challenging any sort of coordinated action in a large scale disaster must be...
"Governor we have a single representative from each Police Department on the line to talk about emergency response to the Hurricane approaching the state.....err hang on we just have to wait for a thousand or so more joining beeps here before we start........"
posted by inflatablekiwi at 3:55 PM on January 20, 2022
According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics' 2008 Census of State and Local Law Enforcement Agencies, Texas had 1,913 law enforcement agencies, the most of any state.
It always blows my mind how inefficient / challenging any sort of coordinated action in a large scale disaster must be...
"Governor we have a single representative from each Police Department on the line to talk about emergency response to the Hurricane approaching the state.....err hang on we just have to wait for a thousand or so more joining beeps here before we start........"
posted by inflatablekiwi at 3:55 PM on January 20, 2022
It always blows my mind how inefficient / challenging any sort of coordinated action in a large scale disaster must be...
Starting with the premise that law enforcement is there to help during a disaster is where you’re going wrong.
posted by mhoye at 4:05 PM on January 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
Starting with the premise that law enforcement is there to help during a disaster is where you’re going wrong.
posted by mhoye at 4:05 PM on January 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
Fair point mhoye....
posted by inflatablekiwi at 4:06 PM on January 20, 2022
posted by inflatablekiwi at 4:06 PM on January 20, 2022
Texas has 254 counties, the most of any state. It's weird.
posted by ryanrs at 4:27 PM on January 20, 2022
posted by ryanrs at 4:27 PM on January 20, 2022
At least Texas is big. New Jersey has 564 municipalities, and most have their own police departments. We have 21 counties as well, and they all have their own sheriff departments. And people here complain about their property taxes.
posted by mollweide at 6:11 PM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by mollweide at 6:11 PM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
As to framing, I favor "unburden the police."
This suggests they are an entity who have actual responsibilities, that they actually fulfil, when all they really do is beat their wives and shoot black people and dogs.
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:30 PM on January 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
This suggests they are an entity who have actual responsibilities, that they actually fulfil, when all they really do is beat their wives and shoot black people and dogs.
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:30 PM on January 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
acab abolish the police beginning with these brownshirts
posted by silby at 7:43 PM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by silby at 7:43 PM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Just about every US federal agency has their own police force
Feast your eyes on Wikipedia's "Federal law enforcement in the United States", List of agencies and units of agencies . Find your favorite obscure one!
I like:
Feast your eyes on Wikipedia's "Federal law enforcement in the United States", List of agencies and units of agencies . Find your favorite obscure one!
I like:
- The slightly counterintuitive fact that there are FBI Police
- Zoo police
- The now-gone Hoover Dam Police
- Perhaps the only police force that effectively reports to a publishing executive
Eviemath, is the reading list full of solutions that proponents of abolition have yet to present to the voters, or is the body of work itself expected to convince them?
posted by Selena777 at 7:39 AM on January 21, 2022
posted by Selena777 at 7:39 AM on January 21, 2022
Selena777, I’m not sure I understand the question? The MPD150 links might be from the… I think it was some sort of citizen’s commission in Minneapolis making recommendations, that got struck after the murder of George Floyd? Though I may be mistaken and that may be a different, unofficial group of activists. In general, there aren’t (yet) enough police abolitionists elected to political office to be able to put any proposals up for a general public vote, with some minor local exceptions / places that allow citizen initiatives.
But if you browse through the links, you’ll see that a lot of the sub-links address many of the common questions about “well, if there are no cops then what do you do about X”, for various X including domestic violence or other sexualized violence, other violent crimes, property crimes, mental health issues, etc. So they’re really about the on-the-ground practical details of what individual and public safety can look like without police. One could probably generate specific policy proposals from that fairly easily and directly?
posted by eviemath at 9:21 AM on January 21, 2022
But if you browse through the links, you’ll see that a lot of the sub-links address many of the common questions about “well, if there are no cops then what do you do about X”, for various X including domestic violence or other sexualized violence, other violent crimes, property crimes, mental health issues, etc. So they’re really about the on-the-ground practical details of what individual and public safety can look like without police. One could probably generate specific policy proposals from that fairly easily and directly?
posted by eviemath at 9:21 AM on January 21, 2022
I'm talking about the "hearts and minds of the public" factor that could potentially get abolitionists elected to political office. How is the average voter expected to get acquainted with these practical solutions and their effectiveness - beyond the slogans - to the point where they'd feel comfortable with trying them out?
posted by Selena777 at 10:02 AM on January 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Selena777 at 10:02 AM on January 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Ah, I would imagine that any individual candidate for public office has some responsibility and control over their own messaging, and would use the same communication fora as any other political candidate? Candidates that have teams working to elect them of course have an easier time with that, so any group of abolitionists who want to put their efforts into electoral politics would likely coordinate as a group to nominate and support candidates. Eg. I believe that happened in Minneapolis, which is how they ended up with a local proposal to defund their police last year.
I’ve also read various news reports about some of the anti-violence initiatives linked, or have encountered others through some of my own activism. Or Mennonites would be hearing about it through their church, per the final link. When I talk to other white folks about the issue, the main hurdle I’ve encountered isn’t lack of information though, it’s a subset of people who actively resist listening or learning anything about the justifications behind prison abolition and alternatives proposed. YMMV, of course.
posted by eviemath at 10:18 AM on January 21, 2022
I’ve also read various news reports about some of the anti-violence initiatives linked, or have encountered others through some of my own activism. Or Mennonites would be hearing about it through their church, per the final link. When I talk to other white folks about the issue, the main hurdle I’ve encountered isn’t lack of information though, it’s a subset of people who actively resist listening or learning anything about the justifications behind prison abolition and alternatives proposed. YMMV, of course.
posted by eviemath at 10:18 AM on January 21, 2022
But for someone who is actively seeking out information, there are several repositories that have organized that information in helpful ways, including though not limited to the links I gave above! :)
posted by eviemath at 10:20 AM on January 21, 2022
posted by eviemath at 10:20 AM on January 21, 2022
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posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:01 AM on January 21, 2022
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posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:01 AM on January 21, 2022
I think "Who Watches The Watchmen?" is still a good if gendered summary.
posted by lon_star at 2:46 PM on January 21, 2022
posted by lon_star at 2:46 PM on January 21, 2022
January 25: Brookside Police Chief Mike Jones resigns after AL.com report on traffic trap
and January 26:Alabama Lt. Governor requests state audit of Brookside and its police department
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 1:39 PM on January 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
and January 26:Alabama Lt. Governor requests state audit of Brookside and its police department
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 1:39 PM on January 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
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But part of me suspects that these smug assholes would say "well, if you feel like you have to, but if you take away our funding we'll have to get the money somehow, and so that's why we do the tickets...."
Can we change it to "CONTROL the police"?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:11 AM on January 20, 2022 [8 favorites]