no british justice

January 30, 2022 5:17 AM

Today marks the 50th anniversary of Bloody Sunday. On this day in 1972, British Army troops opened fire on a peaceful civil march organised by the Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association against Operation Demetrius, a British Army operation of internment without trial of people suspected of being members of the IRA. During the shooting, the British troops killed 13 unarmed civilians and injured 15 more as they fled or tried to save each other. (Note: some links may contain graphic images or descriptions of death and injuries.)

Following the massacre, investigations by the British government at first cleared the British authorities of blame (claiming that they had been shooting at armed and violent citizens), but later reports, published 38 years after the event, would find that the troops were "unjustified" in their actions, leading to a formal apology from the sitting PM, David Cameron.

To this day, despite ongoing pleas from the families of those killed, only one soldier has been formally charged with murder, but the case was dropped when the evidence was deemed inadmissible.

Today's anniversary will be marked by a March for Justice and other commemorative events.

(Bloody Sunday previously and again on the Blue.)

posted by fight or flight (24 comments total)

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(14 killed, one died months later)
posted by lalochezia at 5:29 AM on January 30, 2022 [4 favorites]

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posted by whatevernot at 5:38 AM on January 30, 2022

only one soldier has been formally charged with murder, but the case was dropped when the evidence was deemed inadmissible.

The current British government is working on plans to end Troubles prosecutions in what amounts to an amnesty.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:09 AM on January 30, 2022 [1 favorite]

The old divides are closing, but the flags in Derry show that some unionists are in no mood to move on.
posted by adamvasco at 8:23 AM on January 30, 2022 [1 favorite]

.

Previously, the BBC put together an eight part series called "Spotlight On The Troubles" which feels extensive in terms of history, the various factions, and with a steady hand; of course in such an environment there's always going to be a bias, and a perception of bias, depending on your views. And yes, Bloody Sunday is part of this narrative.

I found it a sobering and educational watch. It's still available on iPlayer at the link above.
posted by ewan at 9:08 AM on January 30, 2022 [6 favorites]

..............
posted by clavdivs at 9:20 AM on January 30, 2022

All this discussion of cover-ups of UK state killings rings a bell but it took me a minute...oh yeah, here it is:

For those of us who were in London in July 2005, the events of that month are unforgettable. But that was 17 years ago, and younger people may be completely unaware of them. In light of this week's political events, that awful time is worth revisiting.

(Original source.)
posted by viborg at 9:23 AM on January 30, 2022 [13 favorites]

Thanks for making this post. I'm from Northern Ireland and this is one of those events that looms large over our history but gets strangely little attention in Britain. That is improving though.

I can firmly second the documentary series recommended by ewan above. It's a tough watch in parts though and there were a few episodes where I need to pause and take a break before coming back to it.
posted by knapah at 10:03 AM on January 30, 2022 [7 favorites]

History Extra podcast episode from yesterday.
posted by doctornemo at 10:31 AM on January 30, 2022

A quick plug for the excellent, heartbreaking film about the massacre ,Bloody Sunday dir. by Paul Greengrass.
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:36 AM on January 30, 2022 [5 favorites]

I had no idea Paul greengrass directed that he also directed 9/11 which was the scariest horror movie I've ever seen cuz it was done so well and so quietly without showing preference for either side, just the facts.
posted by markbrendanawitzmissesus at 10:52 AM on January 30, 2022

To paraphrase Marx, British justice is to justice what British cuisine is to cuisine.
posted by acb at 11:24 AM on January 30, 2022 [10 favorites]

I listened to a podcast episode by The Derry Journal newspaper, where they interview family members of the people who were killed on Bloody Sunday, and put it in context, including clips from their archives. It’s heartbreaking.
posted by Kattullus at 1:20 PM on January 30, 2022

I am not defending what happened on Bloody Sunday but hey, there were many many British and Irish deaths caused by the Irish Paramilitary groups too.

I know colonialism and imperialism told you that brown stuff on the bottom of their boots was chocolate but it's really not. And I know that being tricked into licking shit off the bottom of a boot is embarrassing but if you own your mistake you can at least stop repeatedly chowing down on it in the future.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 2:21 PM on January 30, 2022 [6 favorites]

For what it's worth, there's a term for the rhetorical move that I shot a fox... pulled there: it's called "whataboutery". It was actually coined to discuss the Trouble in Northern Ireland right around the time of Bloody Sunday, although it's now used in other circumstances. Whataboutery describes the moral dodge that all sides use when faced with evidence of their own wrongdoing. Instead of discussing the topic at hand, they point to some bad thing that some other party in the conflict did, as if that somehow negates their misdeeds. It's gross, and it's a barrier to honest discussion.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:22 PM on January 30, 2022 [17 favorites]

I am not defending what happened on Bloody Sunday but hey, there were many many British and Irish deaths caused by the Irish Paramilitary groups too.

Which justified the arrest and internment without trial of nearly 2000 people suspected of links to such groups (many on spurious evidence), and the murder of unarmed civilians protesting that policy?

Can we not engage in whataboutism here, please?
posted by andraste at 2:23 PM on January 30, 2022 [11 favorites]

Mod note: I deleted a comment but left several thoughtful responses explaining why it was a problem. I also deleted a couple responses that went for namecalling as against the rules. Hopefully the thread can move on without the "whataboutism." Please refer to our guidelines for constructive ways to participate in tough conversations.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 2:38 PM on January 30, 2022 [4 favorites]

Ugh, Troubles, not Trouble. I can't type for shit.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:22 PM on January 30, 2022

For those curious about the history and events of the Troubles I can recommend The Troubles Podcast. It is nonpartisan and covers a lot - major events (including the Miami Showband Massacre, Birmingham pub bombs, assassination of Lord Mountbatten, Brighton hotel bombing, Omagh bombing, the hunger strikes and of course the Good Friday Agreement); People of the Troubles; infighting within groups; and the sadly necessary Why is there Rioting in Northern Ireland in 2021? It's delivered very calmly and factually.
posted by andraste at 6:57 PM on January 30, 2022 [2 favorites]

"When some kind stranger you met later in life inquired who your family were or which street you came from, you always answered, “We’re a Bloody Sunday family”, and everyone knew what that meant. Derry’s most unlucky and tragic members-only club. I wasn’t even the only Bloody Sunday relative in my class at school, so wide was the reach of Derry’s aching open wound."

From a great piece by Aoife Moore in The Irish Examiner, 'Choosing not to hate over Bloody Sunday as hate eats at your heart'.
posted by o seasons o castles at 2:07 AM on January 31, 2022 [2 favorites]

I'm from Northern Ireland and this is one of those events that looms large over our history but gets strangely little attention in Britain. That is improving though.

This is true. I think it started because we didn't want to admit that the people bombing the mainland had legitimate grievances. Which is also the reason why the state came down so heavily on nationalists, particularly before the Anglo-Irish agreement. In the mainland UK I reckon it would be commonplace to think that the Troubles were probably evenly balanced on both sides. On reflection, that feels unlikely given that one side had all the power of a modern armed state to back it up, and the other side had fundraising from America and very little of anything from Dublin. But beyond that, I will do what all good mainland British people do, and keep well away from commenting on politics in Northern Ireland, for fear of getting something dangerously wrong.

If you are looking for more recent British documentaries on Northern Ireland, anything with comedian Patrick Kielty is excellent. His father was murdered by paramilitary gunmen and so he is interested in the intergenerational legacy of the Troubles. (In case it's not obvious from his name, he grew up in the nationalist community.)
posted by plonkee at 6:23 AM on January 31, 2022 [2 favorites]

If you are looking for more recent British documentaries on Northern Ireland, anything with comedian Patrick Kielty is excellent. His father was murdered by paramilitary gunmen and so he is interested in the intergenerational legacy of the Troubles. (In case it's not obvious from his name, he grew up in the nationalist community.)

Agreed. All of his documentaries have been pretty solid. I'm from the same part of NI as him, though younger, and it's been good to see him engaging with the issues, talking to loyalists, promoting integrated education and so on, rather than just taking the easy option of staying out of it all.
posted by knapah at 1:47 PM on January 31, 2022 [1 favorite]

The mainland?

Ugh. Found one.

The mainland starts at Calais. Britain is just another island, with a perfectly good name. Use it.

The ignorance is wilful, by the way. It's really not so complicated. Those crazy Irish and their incomprehensible and intractable conflicts.

I'm sure you know what gerrymandering means, but do you know where it comes from? Never met a Brit who did.
posted by AillilUpATree at 2:47 PM on January 31, 2022 [3 favorites]

"The word gerrymander (originally written Gerry-mander; a portmanteau of the name Gerry and the animal salamander) was used for the first time in the Boston Gazette (1803–16)—not to be confused with the original Boston Gazette (1719–1798)—on 26 March 1812 in Boston, Massachusetts, United States."

-- Wikipedia
posted by pwnguin at 4:59 PM on January 31, 2022 [3 favorites]