Pence Quid Pro Quo
February 5, 2022 6:55 AM Subscribe
Pence rebukes Trump: ‘I had no right to overturn the election’ — After Trump said at a recent rally that he’s considering pardons for those arrested for involvement in the Jan. 6 riots, Pence described it as a “dark day.”, Meridith McGraw, POLITICO, 02/04/2022: In a speech to the conservative Federalist Society on Friday, former Vice President Mike Pence rebuked his one time boss, Donald Trump, decrying the notion that he could have overturned the election results on the 45th president’s behalf.
“Our Founders were deeply suspicious of consolidated power in the nation’s capital and were rightly concerned with foreign interference if presidential elections were decided in the capital,” Pence said. “But there are those in our party who believe that as the presiding officer over the joint session of Congress, I possessed unilateral authority to reject electoral college votes. And I heard this week, President Trump said I had the right to ‘overturn the election’. President Trump is wrong…I had no right to overturn the election.”
...
“Under the Constitution, I had no right to change the outcome of our election. And Kamala Harris will have no right to overturn the election when we beat them in 2024,” he said in his address [to cheers & applause].
“Our Founders were deeply suspicious of consolidated power in the nation’s capital and were rightly concerned with foreign interference if presidential elections were decided in the capital,” Pence said. “But there are those in our party who believe that as the presiding officer over the joint session of Congress, I possessed unilateral authority to reject electoral college votes. And I heard this week, President Trump said I had the right to ‘overturn the election’. President Trump is wrong…I had no right to overturn the election.”
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“Under the Constitution, I had no right to change the outcome of our election. And Kamala Harris will have no right to overturn the election when we beat them in 2024,” he said in his address [to cheers & applause].
“Under the Constitution, I had no right to change the outcome of our election"
After a year's worth of reflection, he's determined the election is decided. A man of strong conviction! Now I know what Mother sees in you.
And Kamala Harris will have no right to overturn the election when we beat them in 2024
Always the projection with these people. Translation: We'll ensure next time, the outcome won't hinge on questionable power of just the VP.
posted by 2N2222 at 7:16 AM on February 5, 2022 [26 favorites]
After a year's worth of reflection, he's determined the election is decided. A man of strong conviction! Now I know what Mother sees in you.
And Kamala Harris will have no right to overturn the election when we beat them in 2024
Always the projection with these people. Translation: We'll ensure next time, the outcome won't hinge on questionable power of just the VP.
posted by 2N2222 at 7:16 AM on February 5, 2022 [26 favorites]
sorry but who gives a shit, fuck pence
I mean, yeah, fuck pence. Always. Til the end of time.
That said, it’s kind of interesting that the Man-With-No-Spine, who is highly beholden to the evangelical far-right, seems to feel free to openly speak out counter to the Trumpverse narrative. And he was applauded for it.
I’d say he was declaring himself done with politics if it weren’t for the part about winning in ‘24. I can’t see him actually running against Trump for the ‘24 nod, but this does seem to indicate there is a not-insubstantial part of the GOP who are wanting to move away from the unconstitutional nonsense of the Trump crowd.
Perhaps he’s positioning himself as leader of a splinter GOP? In any case, I really hope he has solid security surrounding him, because Trump’s brownshirts are not going to take this well.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:24 AM on February 5, 2022 [12 favorites]
I mean, yeah, fuck pence. Always. Til the end of time.
That said, it’s kind of interesting that the Man-With-No-Spine, who is highly beholden to the evangelical far-right, seems to feel free to openly speak out counter to the Trumpverse narrative. And he was applauded for it.
I’d say he was declaring himself done with politics if it weren’t for the part about winning in ‘24. I can’t see him actually running against Trump for the ‘24 nod, but this does seem to indicate there is a not-insubstantial part of the GOP who are wanting to move away from the unconstitutional nonsense of the Trump crowd.
Perhaps he’s positioning himself as leader of a splinter GOP? In any case, I really hope he has solid security surrounding him, because Trump’s brownshirts are not going to take this well.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:24 AM on February 5, 2022 [12 favorites]
"I mean, Adolf is a great guy and I love the man, but he's just not mein Führer, if you know what I mean."
posted by briank at 7:28 AM on February 5, 2022 [47 favorites]
posted by briank at 7:28 AM on February 5, 2022 [47 favorites]
Separating himself from Trump in order to test the waters for his own run for office?
posted by rip at 7:34 AM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by rip at 7:34 AM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Dems are in a bad situation. Anything that splinters the Republican vote is good news for anyone who doesn't like whatever Fascist the GOP wants to run in the general.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:39 AM on February 5, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:39 AM on February 5, 2022 [9 favorites]
Translation: We'll ensure next time, the outcome won't hinge on questionable power of just the VP.
This is strategic. The subtext here is that the GOP is ensuring the outcome won't hinge on the VP because they are going to subvert the election at county election boards, secretaries of state, and state legislatures. They fully intend to allow legislatures to send their preferred slate of electors to Congress, regardless of what the outcome of the popular vote is in their state, based on some wingnut legal theories that got routed around during the election-related lawsuits last year. Clarence Thomas (of course) was on board with this reasoning.
So, sure, Harris can't overturn the election, because it will have been overturned before it gets to Congress for certifying.
posted by suelac at 7:52 AM on February 5, 2022 [28 favorites]
This is strategic. The subtext here is that the GOP is ensuring the outcome won't hinge on the VP because they are going to subvert the election at county election boards, secretaries of state, and state legislatures. They fully intend to allow legislatures to send their preferred slate of electors to Congress, regardless of what the outcome of the popular vote is in their state, based on some wingnut legal theories that got routed around during the election-related lawsuits last year. Clarence Thomas (of course) was on board with this reasoning.
So, sure, Harris can't overturn the election, because it will have been overturned before it gets to Congress for certifying.
posted by suelac at 7:52 AM on February 5, 2022 [28 favorites]
There is no stopping the avalanche of mendacity coming from the right.
posted by Catblack at 8:11 AM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Catblack at 8:11 AM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
The line "And Kamala Harris will have no right to overturn the election when we beat them in 2024" is the point of his speech.
They're going to declare victory, no matter what happens; and this is a preemptive measure to cut off an escape route for democracy.
posted by ook at 8:14 AM on February 5, 2022 [17 favorites]
They're going to declare victory, no matter what happens; and this is a preemptive measure to cut off an escape route for democracy.
posted by ook at 8:14 AM on February 5, 2022 [17 favorites]
He's distancing himself. He'd grab power if he thought he could (I didn't hear Pence complaining about the undemocratic electoral college that gave him the vice presidency despite losing by three million votes) but he didn't think Trump could likely pull off a coup. He didn't like Trump, but he'd ally with him because he thought he'd get something out of it. But after all that time being around that level of incompetency firsthand, he knew how to play his cards.
The investigation must be progressing if he's speaking out.
posted by AlSweigart at 8:15 AM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
The investigation must be progressing if he's speaking out.
posted by AlSweigart at 8:15 AM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
It might be worth emphasizing that he said this at a gathering of the Federalist Society, because they're one of an increasingly small set of conservative groups who are more committed to their own bullshit than they are to Trumpism.
posted by box at 8:27 AM on February 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by box at 8:27 AM on February 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
Oh, and Trump issued one of the stupid 'statements' that he's been using since he got kicked off Twitter, because of course he did.
posted by box at 8:33 AM on February 5, 2022
posted by box at 8:33 AM on February 5, 2022
It might be worth emphasizing that he said this at a gathering of the Federalist Society...
Isn’t the Federalist Society the group largely responsible for the current makeup of SCOTUS?
posted by Thorzdad at 8:40 AM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Isn’t the Federalist Society the group largely responsible for the current makeup of SCOTUS?
posted by Thorzdad at 8:40 AM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Well once Harris decides our next president we should really review this right of the VP.
Or not. We could just have Democratic presidents from here to the horizon.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 8:40 AM on February 5, 2022
Or not. We could just have Democratic presidents from here to the horizon.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 8:40 AM on February 5, 2022
Eugene Lee Yang on twitter, January 7 2021:
Rats abandoning ship in the eleventh hour are still fucking rats.
posted by obfuscation at 8:54 AM on February 5, 2022 [9 favorites]
Rats abandoning ship in the eleventh hour are still fucking rats.
posted by obfuscation at 8:54 AM on February 5, 2022 [9 favorites]
Isn’t the Federalist Society the group largely responsible for the current makeup of SCOTUS?
Exactly. They got what they wanted from Trump, a court sure to send us back before the 14th amendment, a radical conservative majority for the next 40 years. Now they can wash their hands of him and his distasteful demeanor. The most important thing to keep in mind about Pence and Cheney and Romney and all these allegedly courageous anti trump conservatives is that they loved his policies but hated his haircut (as a synecdoche for his whole rude and uncivilized demeanor). Which is ironic because they wouldn't have gotten the policies done without the hair and its appeal to the voters
posted by dis_integration at 9:01 AM on February 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
Exactly. They got what they wanted from Trump, a court sure to send us back before the 14th amendment, a radical conservative majority for the next 40 years. Now they can wash their hands of him and his distasteful demeanor. The most important thing to keep in mind about Pence and Cheney and Romney and all these allegedly courageous anti trump conservatives is that they loved his policies but hated his haircut (as a synecdoche for his whole rude and uncivilized demeanor). Which is ironic because they wouldn't have gotten the policies done without the hair and its appeal to the voters
posted by dis_integration at 9:01 AM on February 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
I yield to very few in my distaste and dislike for Pence and everything he stands for, but on Jan. 6, he showed me something when, after his Secret Service detail took him down to the parking garage in order to protect him, he refused to get into the armored limousine that was waiting for him, and in which he would indeed have been safer from the crowd that was chanting for his death because, as he explained to the head of his detail ‘I trust you, but if I get into that car, I might be driven out of here and not be able to certify the election'.
Who is prepared to say where we might be right now if he hadn’t had the serious guts it took to ignore considerations of personal safety and do his duty as he saw it?
He had everything to gain politically and personally, and no one could have blamed him for getting in that car and staying safe, but that’s not what he chose to do.
posted by jamjam at 9:38 AM on February 5, 2022 [29 favorites]
Who is prepared to say where we might be right now if he hadn’t had the serious guts it took to ignore considerations of personal safety and do his duty as he saw it?
He had everything to gain politically and personally, and no one could have blamed him for getting in that car and staying safe, but that’s not what he chose to do.
posted by jamjam at 9:38 AM on February 5, 2022 [29 favorites]
he’s got nothing left to lose
Trump's mob of Jan 6 attackers were explicitly trying to kill Mike Pence. It's remarkable to me that hasn't produced a more significant change in his position. This mild acknowledgment of how American democracy works, purely for his own self defense, is not particularly impressive.
posted by Nelson at 9:38 AM on February 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
Trump's mob of Jan 6 attackers were explicitly trying to kill Mike Pence. It's remarkable to me that hasn't produced a more significant change in his position. This mild acknowledgment of how American democracy works, purely for his own self defense, is not particularly impressive.
posted by Nelson at 9:38 AM on February 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
Rats abandoning ship in the eleventh hour are still fucking rats.
I thought they were swimming rats?
posted by clawsoon at 9:45 AM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
I thought they were swimming rats?
posted by clawsoon at 9:45 AM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
We need an aerosolized mRNA vaccine like the computer virus in Independence Day that both blows up the Death Pancakes and turns Trumpublicans into milksop liberals and milksop liberals into young Jeff Goldbum*.
*But only the guys in the latter case.
posted by y2karl at 9:48 AM on February 5, 2022
*But only the guys in the latter case.
posted by y2karl at 9:48 AM on February 5, 2022
What's a Death Pancake?
posted by Rash at 9:51 AM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Rash at 9:51 AM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
A pox on all their various houses, yachts, summer houses, ski chalets, lake houses, pied-a-terres, and secret hide-aways.
It's mendacious assholes all the way down.
posted by From Bklyn at 10:03 AM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's mendacious assholes all the way down.
posted by From Bklyn at 10:03 AM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
What's a Death Pancake?
*very heavy sigh* $20, same as in town
posted by Spathe Cadet at 10:04 AM on February 5, 2022 [57 favorites]
*very heavy sigh* $20, same as in town
posted by Spathe Cadet at 10:04 AM on February 5, 2022 [57 favorites]
Oh, and Trump issued one of the stupid 'statements' that he's been using since he got kicked off Twitter, because of course he did.
Interesting that he revised it, lengthening it, because the first one of his that I saw was shorter and better reflective of Trump's mindset.
"He won't say it in public because he is WEAK!"
Well, of course he is. That's the entire reason that Trump chose him in the first place; Pence was weak and compliant and incapable of pushback against whatever fell out of Trump's mouth on a given day. He was cognizant of that when he took the job, and it's why he took a thankless job that few others would have wanted. He was useful to Trump as long as he parroted Trump's line, and disposable the moment that he didn't -- which the "Hang Mike Pence" troops on 1/6 made abundantly clear to him once more.
Trump's worldview is that, bluntly, might makes right. Rules and invoices and laws have no meaning if they cannot be enforced. An army of loyal dupes backing you gives you power over your party, power over political entities, power over anyone who gets in your way. It has to burn Trump's ass that, in his mind, he'd be POTUS now if only those around him had the guts to agree with him on that -- that he was Emperor, that he could simply sweep the Electoral Count Act aside and declare victory, and that if they followed his instructions and acted out his coup, they would face no consequences. That is strength to him. Following the Constitution and the system and acknowledging an authority that is not Trump? Weakness.
So, yes, Pence showed some courage on 1/6 by standing up to his Secret Service detail. But only up to a point; he had a decision between remaining hidden on the Capitol grounds (WITH a heavily armed Secret Service detail backing him up) and following the Constitution when the time came, or participating (even passively) in a coup attempt. A scheme whose "legal grounding" every credible legal scholar on the planet and even Dan Quayle were laughing at, but that Powell and the Minnesota Pillow Humper were filling Trump's ear with. A conspiracy that, given that an angry mob was storming the Capitol at that moment, might well rise quickly even further into armed insurrection, considerable bloodshed, and some major, major, major criminal charges for the leading conspirators if it all went to hell -- which, given Trump and his crew's general level of competence, it very well could've.
Some Trumpoids are mocking Pence online now, claiming that "now he'll never, ever get a single vote for President." Well, DUH! Trumpoids were never going to support him instead of Trump, without Trump's direct say-so, and when would Donald Trump EVER say the words "I no longer desire power; let my lapdog have it instead?" The NeverTrumpers aren't about to embrace Trump's Wormtongue as their figurehead going forward, one act of self-preservation that happened to reject the Stupid Coup as an option does not erase years of collaboration. The Democrats certainly wouldn't and shouldn't embrace Pence, an open theocrat and, without Trump propping him up, a complete nonentity.
And, yes, some of the 1/6 nuts were actively trying to murder him, and many others simply calling for the first group to hurry up and do it if he wouldn't bend to Trump's will. That doesn't leave your mind easily. But he's also conscious that every step he takes in public opposition to Trump makes him MORE of a target, MORE of a betrayer, MORE of a Deep State Soros Puppet and therefore Active and Valid Target in the eyes of the nutjobs. Make no mistake; he would not be making even this one statement of firm opposition to the Stupid Coup unless his internal calculations were telling him that the alternative, and the shitstorm to come related to it, was far worse.
So let's watch him try to watch his hands clean. This is just a step along a path.
posted by delfin at 10:17 AM on February 5, 2022 [13 favorites]
Interesting that he revised it, lengthening it, because the first one of his that I saw was shorter and better reflective of Trump's mindset.
"He won't say it in public because he is WEAK!"
Well, of course he is. That's the entire reason that Trump chose him in the first place; Pence was weak and compliant and incapable of pushback against whatever fell out of Trump's mouth on a given day. He was cognizant of that when he took the job, and it's why he took a thankless job that few others would have wanted. He was useful to Trump as long as he parroted Trump's line, and disposable the moment that he didn't -- which the "Hang Mike Pence" troops on 1/6 made abundantly clear to him once more.
Trump's worldview is that, bluntly, might makes right. Rules and invoices and laws have no meaning if they cannot be enforced. An army of loyal dupes backing you gives you power over your party, power over political entities, power over anyone who gets in your way. It has to burn Trump's ass that, in his mind, he'd be POTUS now if only those around him had the guts to agree with him on that -- that he was Emperor, that he could simply sweep the Electoral Count Act aside and declare victory, and that if they followed his instructions and acted out his coup, they would face no consequences. That is strength to him. Following the Constitution and the system and acknowledging an authority that is not Trump? Weakness.
So, yes, Pence showed some courage on 1/6 by standing up to his Secret Service detail. But only up to a point; he had a decision between remaining hidden on the Capitol grounds (WITH a heavily armed Secret Service detail backing him up) and following the Constitution when the time came, or participating (even passively) in a coup attempt. A scheme whose "legal grounding" every credible legal scholar on the planet and even Dan Quayle were laughing at, but that Powell and the Minnesota Pillow Humper were filling Trump's ear with. A conspiracy that, given that an angry mob was storming the Capitol at that moment, might well rise quickly even further into armed insurrection, considerable bloodshed, and some major, major, major criminal charges for the leading conspirators if it all went to hell -- which, given Trump and his crew's general level of competence, it very well could've.
Some Trumpoids are mocking Pence online now, claiming that "now he'll never, ever get a single vote for President." Well, DUH! Trumpoids were never going to support him instead of Trump, without Trump's direct say-so, and when would Donald Trump EVER say the words "I no longer desire power; let my lapdog have it instead?" The NeverTrumpers aren't about to embrace Trump's Wormtongue as their figurehead going forward, one act of self-preservation that happened to reject the Stupid Coup as an option does not erase years of collaboration. The Democrats certainly wouldn't and shouldn't embrace Pence, an open theocrat and, without Trump propping him up, a complete nonentity.
And, yes, some of the 1/6 nuts were actively trying to murder him, and many others simply calling for the first group to hurry up and do it if he wouldn't bend to Trump's will. That doesn't leave your mind easily. But he's also conscious that every step he takes in public opposition to Trump makes him MORE of a target, MORE of a betrayer, MORE of a Deep State Soros Puppet and therefore Active and Valid Target in the eyes of the nutjobs. Make no mistake; he would not be making even this one statement of firm opposition to the Stupid Coup unless his internal calculations were telling him that the alternative, and the shitstorm to come related to it, was far worse.
So let's watch him try to watch his hands clean. This is just a step along a path.
posted by delfin at 10:17 AM on February 5, 2022 [13 favorites]
We need an aerosolized mRNA vaccine like the computer virus in Independence Day that both blows up the Death Pancakes and turns Trumpublicans into milksop liberals and milksop liberals into young Jeff Goldbum*.
Hmmm...y’mean like repurposed chemtrails? I’m kinda surprised the q-nut fringe hasn’t jumped on that yet.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:42 AM on February 5, 2022
Hmmm...y’mean like repurposed chemtrails? I’m kinda surprised the q-nut fringe hasn’t jumped on that yet.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:42 AM on February 5, 2022
Pence was disloyal at exactly the right time’: author Jonathan Karl [*] on the Capitol attack – A new book, Betrayal, dissects the final, authoritarian spasm of the Trump presidency, and Karl warns: ‘We came close to losing it all’, David Smith in Washington, The Guardian, Sun 14 Nov 2021:
posted by cenoxo at 11:23 AM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
…“He didn’t have the authority to throw out these electoral votes. But what if he did? It would have been chaos. What would Pelosi have done? How does it end? How do you get out of that? Eventually it wouldn’t have stood but how? The constitution’s not going to help you at that point. He’s basically stopping the last step in the certification of an election and that step is required for Biden to become president. So what if Pence just stopped it?”…(*ABC News chief White House correspondent.)
posted by cenoxo at 11:23 AM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Sometimes you wake up and read things you weren't sure you ever would. Wow.
posted by firstdaffodils at 11:59 AM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by firstdaffodils at 11:59 AM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
While I don't wish to watch Pence's full remarks, one could.
posted by box at 12:12 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by box at 12:12 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
An observation about the "conservative Federalist Society". I just finished rereading Ron Chernow's biography of George Washington and Jon Meacham's biography of Thomas Jefferson to more fully understand who the Federalists were in the days of our founding fathers. According to those authors the Federalists were those who favored centralized government with strong powers. They included George Washington, Alexander Hamilton and Madison (later switched position). On the other Jefferson and Monroe took the position of the very early Republicans who favored popular government and feared the establishment of a National Bank, assuming Revolutionary War debts of the states, etc. for fear of leading to monarchy. Basically, a centralized industrialized economy v. a decentralized (states rights) agrarian society. My intention is not to debate the details of the Federalist positions, but rather to understand how what was once viewed as a liberal position evolved into a conservative one. It seems to me that party alignment changed significantly after the Civil War. Eg. Republicans Lincoln and Grant (13th, 14th and 15th amendments) did not support states rights, but rather centralized federal government oversight regarding these matters. The labels we give political parties have evolved over the years.
posted by curiousme123 at 12:27 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by curiousme123 at 12:27 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Pence is going nowhere. Too principled* for the GOP, too tainted by Trump for anyone else. The only thing he should be doing is praying he doesn't get assassinated by right-wing extremists for daring to contradict their beloved leader.
* A low bar, height measured in millimeters.
posted by tommasz at 2:18 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by tommasz at 2:18 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
but rather to understand how what was once viewed as a liberal position evolved into a conservative one.
Because the Federalist Society is, despite what they may claim, not really pulling from the Federalism of the US Founding Fathers. Their real ideas and positions derive from the New Federalism of Nixon and Reagan, whose intent was to actually reduce the power of the Federal government and hand more power back to the states.
Largely because the labor rights and civil rights won during the first half of the 20th century were often given teeth by the passing of Federal laws and decisions of Federal judges - which conservatives viewed as the Federal government overstepping its bounds and "forcing" a liberal agenda on the nation as a whole. So if you plant judges in the courts who will rule that states can't be forced to follow federal guidelines on things like job safety or equal access to voting, then states (and the companies who operate in those states) are much freer to discriminate at will. Thus the conservative Federalist Society.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:14 PM on February 5, 2022 [13 favorites]
Because the Federalist Society is, despite what they may claim, not really pulling from the Federalism of the US Founding Fathers. Their real ideas and positions derive from the New Federalism of Nixon and Reagan, whose intent was to actually reduce the power of the Federal government and hand more power back to the states.
Largely because the labor rights and civil rights won during the first half of the 20th century were often given teeth by the passing of Federal laws and decisions of Federal judges - which conservatives viewed as the Federal government overstepping its bounds and "forcing" a liberal agenda on the nation as a whole. So if you plant judges in the courts who will rule that states can't be forced to follow federal guidelines on things like job safety or equal access to voting, then states (and the companies who operate in those states) are much freer to discriminate at will. Thus the conservative Federalist Society.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:14 PM on February 5, 2022 [13 favorites]
I never in my entire life had the idea that I would applaud Dan Quayle participation in anything, but appears that his efforts to push Mike Pence to open up has some merits.
posted by CRESTA at 6:13 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by CRESTA at 6:13 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
The whole Dan Quayle involvement seems like the script writers bringing back an old character to goose ratings during sweeps.
posted by jmauro at 9:29 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by jmauro at 9:29 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
There just is no bravery in this latest statement, to me. He already didn't overturn the election (whether you think he could have or not). This statement is saying "Trump is saying I'm a traitor to him. But I didn't betray him, I was just powerless!"
"I didn't commit a crime because I had no way to do so" is not a statement of ethics.
posted by agentofselection at 9:36 PM on February 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
"I didn't commit a crime because I had no way to do so" is not a statement of ethics.
posted by agentofselection at 9:36 PM on February 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
Trump's operation is 'in a meltdown' as 'walls close in' and Pence revolts: former GOP lawmaker, Raw Story, John Wright, February 05, 2022:
…"I think what you're seeing is, the Trump operation is in sort of a meltdown," [former GOP Congresswoman Barbara] Comstock told CNN on Saturday. "Of course, Mike Pence is right — Donald Trump was wrong — and he basically also called him un-American, and he did it in front of conservative Federalist Society members who gave him a standing ovation."posted by cenoxo at 10:31 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Comstock noted that Florida GOP Gov. Ron DeSantis, a potential 2024 presidential candidate, also appeared at the event and was spotted speaking with former Trump White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany — "who has turned over apparently, reportedly, a lot of her documents to the (House Jan. 6) committee."
"You have Mike Pence staff meeting with the committee, talking to them, turning over documents now while the (National) Archive(s) documents are being turned over," Comstock said.
"The walls are closing in on Trump, and I think this was a desperate audience-of-one resolution from the RNC," Comstock said, referring to the Republican National Committee's censure of Reps. Adam Kinzinger (R-IL) and Liz Cheney (R-WY), which referred to the Capitol insurrection as "legitimate political discourse."
"Let's not call it the Republican Party," Comstock said of the RNC. "It's 168 members who obviously are intimidated by Donald Trump."…
whatever one can say about the segregated undemocratic swamp that someone like pence comes from, they had some ideals of right-doing that were incompatible with trumpism or "might makes right." in fact, they were probably taught, explicitly, that the meek shall inherit the earth. as a non-christian, i have no fuckin idea, but i feel like that's a main part of the whole jesus thing.
but here's the thing: take the long view. the usa is going to try to be around for more than one or two more generations. what about when some generation comes of age who grew up on "lock her up" instead of "turn the other cheek" ? i'll take a bible belt lunatic over a trumpy lunatic seven days a week. but we'll be fresh out come 2050.
posted by wibari at 10:36 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
but here's the thing: take the long view. the usa is going to try to be around for more than one or two more generations. what about when some generation comes of age who grew up on "lock her up" instead of "turn the other cheek" ? i'll take a bible belt lunatic over a trumpy lunatic seven days a week. but we'll be fresh out come 2050.
posted by wibari at 10:36 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Any Republican that doesn't completely denounce current Republicanism is still part of the problem
posted by Jacen at 1:32 AM on February 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Jacen at 1:32 AM on February 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
Trump operation is in sort of a meltdown
Ah that old familiar friend, the weekly "Trump camp in meltdown, Trump increasingly isolated". By this point Trump must've achieved a plasma state of matter, and also retreated to the void.
I wonder how many of these we'll get right up until he reads the oath of office again
posted by dis_integration at 6:03 AM on February 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
Ah that old familiar friend, the weekly "Trump camp in meltdown, Trump increasingly isolated". By this point Trump must've achieved a plasma state of matter, and also retreated to the void.
I wonder how many of these we'll get right up until he reads the oath of office again
posted by dis_integration at 6:03 AM on February 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
My prediction is that state legislatures and election officials will decide that votes for Joseph Biden for President are made under duress- somehow caused by the 5G chip which was planted along with Covid vaccines. The only way to correct this state of affairs will be to choose alternate slates of electors to certify Trump as the victor.
posted by coldhotel at 6:22 AM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by coldhotel at 6:22 AM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
~Trump operation is in sort of a meltdown
~Ah that old familiar friend, the weekly "Trump camp in meltdown, Trump increasingly isolated". By this point Trump must've achieved a plasma state of matter, and also retreated to the void.
I wonder how many of these we'll get right up until he reads the oath of office again
It’s like they forgot that Trump’s preferred management style is one of disorganization and strife among the staff. Appearing to be in meltdown = working as intended.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:44 AM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
~Ah that old familiar friend, the weekly "Trump camp in meltdown, Trump increasingly isolated". By this point Trump must've achieved a plasma state of matter, and also retreated to the void.
I wonder how many of these we'll get right up until he reads the oath of office again
It’s like they forgot that Trump’s preferred management style is one of disorganization and strife among the staff. Appearing to be in meltdown = working as intended.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:44 AM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Too little, too late... but better than nothing. Hopefully comments such as these can damage Trump's character so much moving forward that he won't even do well in the primaries... one can only hope.
posted by JeffKelly68 at 8:35 AM on February 6, 2022
posted by JeffKelly68 at 8:35 AM on February 6, 2022
It's a dangerous, false hope. This isn't some polite debate; the country is at risk of falling to people who are trying to end democracy.
posted by Nelson at 8:58 AM on February 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 8:58 AM on February 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
i'll take a bible belt lunatic over a trumpy lunatic seven days a week. but we'll be fresh out come 2050.
Evangelicals would launch strategic nukes into the Middle East to bring about Apocalypse. A Trumper would launch strategic nukes into the Middle East to secure oil pipelines. A pox on all of them.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:46 AM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Evangelicals would launch strategic nukes into the Middle East to bring about Apocalypse. A Trumper would launch strategic nukes into the Middle East to secure oil pipelines. A pox on all of them.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:46 AM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
^ "Let's not call it the Republican Party," Comstock said of the RNC. "It's 168 members who obviously are intimidated by Donald Trump.”
Trump's GOP: Party Further Tightens Tie to Former President – Party leaders at the Republican National Committee's winter meeting this past week left no doubt that the GOP is choosing to serve Donald Trump and his political interests before the next presidential election., Sam Metz & Steve Peoples, Associated Press, Feb. 5, 2022:
Trump's GOP: Party Further Tightens Tie to Former President – Party leaders at the Republican National Committee's winter meeting this past week left no doubt that the GOP is choosing to serve Donald Trump and his political interests before the next presidential election., Sam Metz & Steve Peoples, Associated Press, Feb. 5, 2022:
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — In 2016, Donald Trump overtook the Republican National Committee through a shock and awe campaign that stunned party leaders. In 2020, the party was obligated to support him as the sitting Republican president. Heading into 2024, however, the Republican Party has a choice.posted by cenoxo at 7:25 PM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
The RNC, which controls the party’s rules and infrastructure, is under no obligation to support Trump again. In fact, the GOP’s bylaws specifically require neutrality should more than one candidate seek the party’s presidential nomination.
But as Republican officials from across the country gathered in Utah this week for the RNC’s winter meeting, party leaders devoted considerable energy to disciplining Trump’s rivals and embracing his grievances. As the earliest stages of the next presidential contest take shape, their actions made clear that choosing to serve Trump and his political interests remains a focus for the party.
“If President Trump decides he’s running, absolutely the RNC needs to back him, 100%,” said Michele Fiore, an RNC committeewoman who has represented Nevada since 2018. “We can change the bylaws.”…
RNC Should Take a Lesson from Mike Pence, by THE EDITORS, National Review, February 5, 2022:
posted by cenoxo at 9:35 PM on February 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
The Republican National Committee has voted to formally censure Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for “actions in their positions as members of the January 6th Select Committee not befitting Republican members of Congress.” This is both morally repellent and politically self-destructive.More in the editorial.
The action of the mob on January 6 was an indefensible disgrace. It is deserving of both political accountability and criminal prosecution. Aspects of it are also fit subjects for a properly conducted congressional inquiry. It is wrong to minimize or excuse what happened that day.
Republicans who did nothing to encourage the mob — and there are many such Republicans — need not wear a hair shirt over January 6, but when they choose to talk about it, they should tell the unsparing truth. We commend the example of Mike Pence, who told a Federalist Society gathering, “I heard this week that President Trump said I had the right to overturn the election. President Trump is wrong. I had no right to overturn the election. The presidency belongs to the American people, and the American people alone.”…
posted by cenoxo at 9:35 PM on February 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
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posted by jmauro at 7:10 AM on February 5, 2022 [28 favorites]