The Siege of Ottawa - Counterprotest Today!
February 5, 2022 10:19 AM Subscribe
Fallout from the truckers occupying Canada's capitol continue, although I'm finding negligible coverage of the situation in US media. Today, a counter-protest has been scheduled for 2-5PM. Ottawa City News: Residents begin counter-protesting downtown Ottawa convoy. Globe and Mail: Nunavut Senator quits Conservative caucus over Ottawa convoy protests. Al Jazeera: Ottawa residents decry anti vaccine trucker occupation. What's it like for them? Twitter@glen_mcgregor: This was the audio landscape in a residential area of downtown Ottawa Wednesday morning. After hearing that, I wish I was close enough to join them, today. Right On, Ottawa!
Previously: Flu Trux Klan and Erin O'Toole ousted as leader of the Conservative Party of Canada
Previously: Flu Trux Klan and Erin O'Toole ousted as leader of the Conservative Party of Canada
...although I'm finding negligible coverage of the situation in US media.
That would necessarily require US media to talk about the dark money flowing from the US to back the protest, and we can’t have that.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:33 AM on February 5, 2022 [48 favorites]
That would necessarily require US media to talk about the dark money flowing from the US to back the protest, and we can’t have that.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:33 AM on February 5, 2022 [48 favorites]
I did see a rather clever tweet that pointed out that truckers are protesters, but trucks are not, and are in fact commercial property owned by companies that can be sued.
Their "one weird trick" (idling trucks and honking horns to infuriate "the libs") is going to come back to bite them in the ass.
posted by explosion at 10:35 AM on February 5, 2022 [46 favorites]
Their "one weird trick" (idling trucks and honking horns to infuriate "the libs") is going to come back to bite them in the ass.
posted by explosion at 10:35 AM on February 5, 2022 [46 favorites]
If you look at the streets closed in Toronto on Google Maps right now, you can see that there is an enormous problem. I honestly don't think anything short of military force or total capitulation by the government is going to make them move. Either ending is extremely bad. I hope whoever's writing this season has a really impressive plot twist.
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:47 AM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:47 AM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
Driver abuse, wage theft some of the most pressing issues, truckers say:
Truckers in Peel Region say the convoy protest that has gripped Ottawa for more than a week isn't addressing the real problems they face — and they're trying to shift the conversation away from COVID-19 vaccine mandates and toward stopping abuse and wage theft in the industry.
Attar Sodhi, a 37-year-old Brampton resident and truck driver, says very few of the protesters in Ottawa are South Asians, who make up more than half of the truckers operating in the Greater Toronto Area, according to some estimates. The protests are sparking debate across the country, but especially in Peel, where trucking and warehousing account for a large percentage of local jobs.
"Something else is happening behind the scenes, because the real issues are completely different," Sodhi told CBC News.
[...]
Sodhi is part of the Naujawan Support Network, a grassroots organization in Peel that aims to help international students and other young workers dealing with mistreatment and exploitation. The group has been highlighting the issue of lost wages for truck drivers and other vulnerable groups for months.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:51 AM on February 5, 2022 [27 favorites]
Truckers in Peel Region say the convoy protest that has gripped Ottawa for more than a week isn't addressing the real problems they face — and they're trying to shift the conversation away from COVID-19 vaccine mandates and toward stopping abuse and wage theft in the industry.
Attar Sodhi, a 37-year-old Brampton resident and truck driver, says very few of the protesters in Ottawa are South Asians, who make up more than half of the truckers operating in the Greater Toronto Area, according to some estimates. The protests are sparking debate across the country, but especially in Peel, where trucking and warehousing account for a large percentage of local jobs.
"Something else is happening behind the scenes, because the real issues are completely different," Sodhi told CBC News.
[...]
Sodhi is part of the Naujawan Support Network, a grassroots organization in Peel that aims to help international students and other young workers dealing with mistreatment and exploitation. The group has been highlighting the issue of lost wages for truck drivers and other vulnerable groups for months.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:51 AM on February 5, 2022 [27 favorites]
O Canada, why can't you be less like USians to your South.
posted by y2karl at 10:52 AM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by y2karl at 10:52 AM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
“People are afraid of physical violence and I think also they do not trust the police to keep them safe if they were assaulted or threatened with violence,” Burgan said.
That's because the police are part of the crowd.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 10:53 AM on February 5, 2022 [27 favorites]
That's because the police are part of the crowd.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 10:53 AM on February 5, 2022 [27 favorites]
It's not even about meekness. It's about the same thing that it ever was -- people who want to use physical force and intimidation to get their way, and the difficulty of dealing with them without responding in kind.
posted by delfin at 11:05 AM on February 5, 2022 [41 favorites]
posted by delfin at 11:05 AM on February 5, 2022 [41 favorites]
I did see a rather clever tweet that pointed out that truckers are protesters, but trucks are not, and are in fact commercial property owned by companies that can be sued
Even if the cops didn't weren't able to tow the trucks or forcibly remove the truckers couldn't they give them a whole bunch of tickets for illegal parking, blocking traffic, idling too long, disturbing the peace, etc. The owners getting a couple of thousand dollars in tickets won't make them any happier with the drivers and even if they GoFundMe to pay them that's still money going from random assholes to the City of Ottawa.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:06 AM on February 5, 2022 [25 favorites]
Even if the cops didn't weren't able to tow the trucks or forcibly remove the truckers couldn't they give them a whole bunch of tickets for illegal parking, blocking traffic, idling too long, disturbing the peace, etc. The owners getting a couple of thousand dollars in tickets won't make them any happier with the drivers and even if they GoFundMe to pay them that's still money going from random assholes to the City of Ottawa.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:06 AM on February 5, 2022 [25 favorites]
I guarantee you if these were First Nations or any POC, this would have been done and dusted, already.
posted by Kitteh at 11:07 AM on February 5, 2022 [95 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 11:07 AM on February 5, 2022 [95 favorites]
The owners getting a couple of thousand dollars in tickets won't make them any happier with the drivers and even if they GoFundMe to pay them that's still money going from random assholes to the City of Ottawa.
Instead, the City of Ottawa is paying a top-tier turd-polishing firm to spin their bed-shitting as reasonable and prudent.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:09 AM on February 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
Instead, the City of Ottawa is paying a top-tier turd-polishing firm to spin their bed-shitting as reasonable and prudent.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:09 AM on February 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
Lawsuit filed against convoy organizers, seeking damages on behalf of downtown Ottawa residents
The case is in court today as they're seeking an injunction to the nuisance. This CTV journalist is live tweeting the proceedings that started at 2pm.
posted by quoththeraven at 11:12 AM on February 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
The case is in court today as they're seeking an injunction to the nuisance. This CTV journalist is live tweeting the proceedings that started at 2pm.
posted by quoththeraven at 11:12 AM on February 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
Christ almighty, I could take about 30 seconds of that noise before I fled the city. How can they stand it themselves? Do they all have noise cancelling headphones?
posted by HotToddy at 11:15 AM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 11:15 AM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
This Twitter thread from an activist re: these fuckos outline why they're slightly more successful at organizing right now. Spoiler alert: white privilege! If you don't have to worry about being profiled, arrested, or possibly worrying about a warrant, you will be very public.
posted by Kitteh at 11:16 AM on February 5, 2022 [23 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 11:16 AM on February 5, 2022 [23 favorites]
How will they ever restore order, since the drivers won't cooperate, and the police are just standing by. Thinking of You Only Live Twice, and noting the Canadian military has a couple dozen Chinook helicopters, I'm wondering if one of those equipped with an electromagnet is powerful enough to lift a semi?
posted by Rash at 11:30 AM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Rash at 11:30 AM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Using the military against civilian protestors on home soil, no matter how aggressively they are behaving, is an end-game move where everyone loses.
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:01 PM on February 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:01 PM on February 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
I could take about 30 seconds of that noise before I fled the city.
Well there's one horn that sounds like a train. It just drones on and on. Ironically by being continuous I've learned to tune it out.
But actually things are quiet right now, at least in lowertown.
posted by aclevername at 12:18 PM on February 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
Well there's one horn that sounds like a train. It just drones on and on. Ironically by being continuous I've learned to tune it out.
But actually things are quiet right now, at least in lowertown.
posted by aclevername at 12:18 PM on February 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
The owners getting a couple of thousand dollars in tickets won't make them any happier with the drivers
Looks like the owners are the drivers. This truck for example is a Volvo. Very expensive. In this Reuters photo, the righthand truck is a Freightliner and therefore could be a fleet truck, but the lefthand and center trucks are both Western Stars, which almost certainly belong to their drivers, as do the vast majority of the trucks in this photo gallery. Fleets buy streamlined trucks for fuel economy, typically (in the US anyhow) white Freightliners. If it looks like a stereotyped five-year-old boy (a.k.a. mrs_goldfish) would fetishize it, it's independent.
posted by feral_goldfish at 12:38 PM on February 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Looks like the owners are the drivers. This truck for example is a Volvo. Very expensive. In this Reuters photo, the righthand truck is a Freightliner and therefore could be a fleet truck, but the lefthand and center trucks are both Western Stars, which almost certainly belong to their drivers, as do the vast majority of the trucks in this photo gallery. Fleets buy streamlined trucks for fuel economy, typically (in the US anyhow) white Freightliners. If it looks like a stereotyped five-year-old boy (a.k.a. mrs_goldfish) would fetishize it, it's independent.
posted by feral_goldfish at 12:38 PM on February 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Even if the cops didn't weren't able to tow the trucks or forcibly remove the truckers couldn't they give them a whole bunch of tickets for illegal parking, blocking traffic, idling too long, disturbing the peace, etc.
Pretty sure you can get your CDL yanked for operating a vehicle in an unsafe manner. Deliberately obstructing emergency services, which they obviously are, could easily be cause for that. Cite 'em for all the traffic laws they're breaking, yank their licenses, then cite them again for operating without a license. No military - just rack up civil infraction after civil infraction, calmly, and eventually tow the trucks.
posted by mrgoat at 12:42 PM on February 5, 2022 [44 favorites]
Pretty sure you can get your CDL yanked for operating a vehicle in an unsafe manner. Deliberately obstructing emergency services, which they obviously are, could easily be cause for that. Cite 'em for all the traffic laws they're breaking, yank their licenses, then cite them again for operating without a license. No military - just rack up civil infraction after civil infraction, calmly, and eventually tow the trucks.
posted by mrgoat at 12:42 PM on February 5, 2022 [44 favorites]
Time to build an oil pipeline through Ottawa.
posted by adept256 at 1:01 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 1:01 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I see cyclists in Vancouver are blocking protests. Guess they've seen Ottawa pan out and don't want a bar of it.
posted by phigmov at 1:06 PM on February 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by phigmov at 1:06 PM on February 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
Does anyone know of any counterprotests in Kelowna or how I'd find out about that? The last two weeks I've been able to hear the honking from my apartment and would like to help against these assholes
posted by Canageek at 1:14 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Canageek at 1:14 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Ottawa's pipeline is just south of town, crossing the Rideau near the airport.
One of the racking stations blew up two weeks ago. Pretty horrific.
posted by bonehead at 1:15 PM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
One of the racking stations blew up two weeks ago. Pretty horrific.
posted by bonehead at 1:15 PM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
> Lawsuit filed against convoy organizers, seeking damages on behalf of downtown Ottawa residents
r/ottawa, megathread #39:
r/ottawa, megathread #39:
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:19 PM on February 5, 2022 [9 favorites]ego_tripped·1 hr. agoits_always_sunny_c·2 hr. agoponypartyposse·2 hr. ago
Injunction was just denied. Matter adjourned until tomorrow afternoon at 1:00 pm for further arguments and submissions.
Unfortunate but the judge’s reasoning was sound. An injunction isn’t enforceable if you can’t specify who it’s enforceable against.
Is “those fuckers” not a legal term????
Only if the two words are capitalized and are preceeded with a suitable definition, or, it's in the Defined Terms Schedule/Appendix.
It's a consistent rookie drafting mistake.
Using the military against civilian protestors on home soil, no matter how aggressively they are behaving, is an end-game move where everyone loses.
Unless they're not white and then the electorate practically demands the authorities draw blood.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 1:19 PM on February 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
Unless they're not white and then the electorate practically demands the authorities draw blood.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 1:19 PM on February 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
> The owners getting a couple of thousand dollars in tickets won't make them any happier with the drivers
Some of those trucks are apparently clunkers bought for the purpose, from someone's dad on reddit.
Certainly, the uhauls are not owner-operated.
For the died-in-the-wool neonazis, I think they expect their martyrs to go down fighting for the cause, and are not motivated by potential fines.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:25 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Some of those trucks are apparently clunkers bought for the purpose, from someone's dad on reddit.
Certainly, the uhauls are not owner-operated.
For the died-in-the-wool neonazis, I think they expect their martyrs to go down fighting for the cause, and are not motivated by potential fines.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:25 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Actual trucker organizations are like, WTF, this is not us.
'90 per cent of truck drivers [are] vaccinated against COVID-19, according to the Canadian Trucking Alliance.'
"I support truckers all the time, but ... this is a totally different matter. This is a matter of security and safety," said Nachhattar Singh Chohan, the owner of a freight company in Mississauga. "We have to take care of other people too."
Truckers in Peel Region say the convoy protest that has gripped Ottawa for more than a week isn't addressing the real problems they face — and they're trying to shift the conversation away from COVID-19 vaccine mandates and toward stopping abuse and wage theft in the industry.
Attar Sodhi, a 37-year-old Brampton resident and truck driver, says very few of the protesters in Ottawa are South Asians, who make up more than half of the truckers operating in the Greater Toronto Area, according to some estimates.
"Something else is happening behind the scenes, because the real issues are completely different," Sodhi told CBC News.
posted by feral_goldfish at 1:33 PM on February 5, 2022 [24 favorites]
'90 per cent of truck drivers [are] vaccinated against COVID-19, according to the Canadian Trucking Alliance.'
"I support truckers all the time, but ... this is a totally different matter. This is a matter of security and safety," said Nachhattar Singh Chohan, the owner of a freight company in Mississauga. "We have to take care of other people too."
Truckers in Peel Region say the convoy protest that has gripped Ottawa for more than a week isn't addressing the real problems they face — and they're trying to shift the conversation away from COVID-19 vaccine mandates and toward stopping abuse and wage theft in the industry.
Attar Sodhi, a 37-year-old Brampton resident and truck driver, says very few of the protesters in Ottawa are South Asians, who make up more than half of the truckers operating in the Greater Toronto Area, according to some estimates.
"Something else is happening behind the scenes, because the real issues are completely different," Sodhi told CBC News.
posted by feral_goldfish at 1:33 PM on February 5, 2022 [24 favorites]
who will then drive the trucks. I think that's the truckers caveat to lawlessness. The u.s. and Canadian teamsters seem to have zip to say about this.
Is it legal to ride a horse in Ottawa?
"Video on social media showed someone standing on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier on Saturday, shouting "Freedom.""
Wow, that wouldn't happen here.
actually it wouldn't but I'd like to know more about u.s. influence and money behind this. While not directly related I found this interesting. 'Jimmy Hoffa’s plans for a Canadian empire', 1958. Ironically, the 'Port Huron Statement was finalized at a U.A.W. retreat, expenses covered by the U.A.W. and I see these people using civil disobience, in this case, with trucks, as some sort of platform that has very little to do with rights.
posted by clavdivs at 1:38 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Is it legal to ride a horse in Ottawa?
"Video on social media showed someone standing on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier on Saturday, shouting "Freedom.""
Wow, that wouldn't happen here.
actually it wouldn't but I'd like to know more about u.s. influence and money behind this. While not directly related I found this interesting. 'Jimmy Hoffa’s plans for a Canadian empire', 1958. Ironically, the 'Port Huron Statement was finalized at a U.A.W. retreat, expenses covered by the U.A.W. and I see these people using civil disobience, in this case, with trucks, as some sort of platform that has very little to do with rights.
posted by clavdivs at 1:38 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
r/ottawa's JamesGray: Sloly is doing work for the defund police movement, I will say that.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:50 PM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:50 PM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
Actual truckers carrying goods have been have been trapped by another branch of the "convoy" at a US border crossing.
posted by peppermind at 2:06 PM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by peppermind at 2:06 PM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
One thing (among many) that frustrates me is that any reduction in COVID restrictions over the next couple months, which were clearly coming anyway as the Omicron wave ebbs, will now be chalked up to these yahoos. And not just by the yahoos themselves.
posted by saturday_morning at 2:07 PM on February 5, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 2:07 PM on February 5, 2022 [9 favorites]
Toronto's "protest" fizzled out, thankfully. Turns out, when the police block the major highways into the downtown core, the locals can manage to use surface streets to get where they're going (these highways get shut for weekend maintenance all the time) but the out-of-towners get lost, separated, and don't make it to the protest on time. The crowd looks like a crowd in close-up shots, but as soon as you see a wide shot or view from the news helicopter you see that's it's maybe 1/10 of the crowd that would show up for the book festival that used to pedestrianize the street on the same block.
The local police have also made it very clear that no one is staying overnight.
posted by thecjm at 2:27 PM on February 5, 2022 [19 favorites]
The local police have also made it very clear that no one is staying overnight.
posted by thecjm at 2:27 PM on February 5, 2022 [19 favorites]
I don't know how paranoid this is, but I worry that the road closures in Toronto today are unsustainable — you can't keep the Gardiner and the DVP and half of the core streets closed for long, unless it's pothole season — seeing as many of the protestors apparently don't have anywhere else to be, what's to stop them from camping out in the periphery and then driving their trucks down to Queen's Park tomorrow or Monday or whenever the roads open back up?
posted by saturday_morning at 2:44 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by saturday_morning at 2:44 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
The local police have also made it very clear that no one is staying overnight.
This is the key, don't let them entrench. It's too late for Ottawa but I'm glad that if our police can't be a shining example, at least they can be a terrible warning.
I'm very worried about the complete absence of sniffer dogs that I have seen, either live or in any of the video. We know they have a fuel depot at Confederation Park but who knows what else is in those trucks??
They're going to need to separate the people from the vehicles, and worry about moving the trucks later. Make them ask nicely to get them back.
I am very angry and upset about what the future holds for Ottawa.
posted by rpfields at 2:48 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
This is the key, don't let them entrench. It's too late for Ottawa but I'm glad that if our police can't be a shining example, at least they can be a terrible warning.
I'm very worried about the complete absence of sniffer dogs that I have seen, either live or in any of the video. We know they have a fuel depot at Confederation Park but who knows what else is in those trucks??
They're going to need to separate the people from the vehicles, and worry about moving the trucks later. Make them ask nicely to get them back.
I am very angry and upset about what the future holds for Ottawa.
posted by rpfields at 2:48 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
what's to stop them from camping out in the periphery and then driving their trucks down to Queen's Park tomorrow or Monday or whenever the roads open back up?
I think if these chucklekfucks had that kind of commitment they'd be in Ottawa. This is the lightweight brigade.
posted by rodlymight at 2:50 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think if these chucklekfucks had that kind of commitment they'd be in Ottawa. This is the lightweight brigade.
posted by rodlymight at 2:50 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
→
The explosion was at Eastway Truck, a tanker manufacturer.
posted by scruss at 3:09 PM on February 5, 2022
One of the racking stations blew up two weeks ago. Pretty horrific.
The explosion was at Eastway Truck, a tanker manufacturer.
posted by scruss at 3:09 PM on February 5, 2022
According to the live tweets from the TRO hearing that took place today (and did not result in a restraining order being issued), the truckers have an agreement amongst themselves to only sound their horns for 1 minute every half hour, and only from 8 AM to 8 PM, with quiet from 8 PM to 8 AM. Oh, and they do this while driving down the streets of downtown, blocking traffic behind them who also blow their horns in a futile effort to make the truck move faster.
posted by drossdragon at 3:13 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by drossdragon at 3:13 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Some of those trucks are apparently clunkers bought for the purpose, from someone's dad on reddit.
Certainly, the uhauls are not owner-operated.
Those are the ones that might end up being the biggest pains to deal with. If you don't care about the value of your investment, you could place a truck strategically and then physically disable it, turning it into a multiple-ton roadblock. Not impossible to move, of course, but a major pain in the ass.
posted by delfin at 3:13 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Certainly, the uhauls are not owner-operated.
Those are the ones that might end up being the biggest pains to deal with. If you don't care about the value of your investment, you could place a truck strategically and then physically disable it, turning it into a multiple-ton roadblock. Not impossible to move, of course, but a major pain in the ass.
posted by delfin at 3:13 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/slj1qo/convoy_megathread_40/
Apparently, from the meeting with the Police Board, Sloly: "Not a policing problem, but a societal one"
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:16 PM on February 5, 2022
Apparently, from the meeting with the Police Board, Sloly: "Not a policing problem, but a societal one"
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:16 PM on February 5, 2022
Candid photographs of Sloly earlier in the week
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:20 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:20 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
Half-assed convoy in NZ today on Waitangi Day. Participants appear confused as to where to go and the locals are less than impressed. Also, not an actual truck to be seen. It'll be interesting to see if they try and pull something more organised for ANZAC day.
posted by phigmov at 3:28 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by phigmov at 3:28 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yes phigmov, we've just driven south out of Dunedin and there are crowds of idiots on many of the bridges, weird times. But no trucks thankfully, hopefully farmers against clean water aka groundswell stay off the roads.
Farmers have schismed along covid lines: recently met an existing client; them 'are you vaxed coz if not you can fuck off right now' I too prefer the direct approach, but many 'traditional' esp older farmers are anti vax.
posted by unearthed at 4:06 PM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
Farmers have schismed along covid lines: recently met an existing client; them 'are you vaxed coz if not you can fuck off right now' I too prefer the direct approach, but many 'traditional' esp older farmers are anti vax.
posted by unearthed at 4:06 PM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
Driving out of London, Ont. today, I accidentally got swallowed up into a copycat truckers' convoy. I could feel my IQ drop thirty points.
posted by Capt. Renault at 4:29 PM on February 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 4:29 PM on February 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
Apparently, from the meeting with the Police Board, Sloly: "Not a policing problem, but a societal one"
I mean...yes, this is a societal problem.
So is homelessness.
So is drug abuse.
So is mental illness.
How does your department approach those, Chief?
posted by saturday_morning at 4:37 PM on February 5, 2022 [26 favorites]
I mean...yes, this is a societal problem.
So is homelessness.
So is drug abuse.
So is mental illness.
How does your department approach those, Chief?
posted by saturday_morning at 4:37 PM on February 5, 2022 [26 favorites]
Some indications that a lot of this action is happening with MAGA money...
posted by suelac at 4:45 PM on February 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by suelac at 4:45 PM on February 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
but many 'traditional' esp older farmers are anti vax
A Farmer Removed His Own Skin Cancer With A Pocket Knife. This Is What Happened To His Brain.
A warning why farmers shouldn't be so braggadocious about being all self-sufficient and flippant about their health.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 4:49 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
A Farmer Removed His Own Skin Cancer With A Pocket Knife. This Is What Happened To His Brain.
A warning why farmers shouldn't be so braggadocious about being all self-sufficient and flippant about their health.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 4:49 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Apparently, from the meeting with the Police Board, Sloly: "Not a policing problem, but a societal one"
Cool that Slow Peter is now on team defund the police.
posted by rodlymight at 5:01 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Cool that Slow Peter is now on team defund the police.
posted by rodlymight at 5:01 PM on February 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
That 'convoy' heading through Dunedin (NZ) is going to be in for a surprise when they discover they can't get on the ferry without a vax certificate and a mask ....
posted by mbo at 5:22 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by mbo at 5:22 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Tim Bray was part of the bicycle counter-protest in Vancouver
posted by gwint at 5:37 PM on February 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by gwint at 5:37 PM on February 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
I had the ignorant idea that Canada was a civilized country. I guess fucking assholes are everywhere and it is not different that anywhere else. How pity. My plans to retire there vanished for certain.
posted by CRESTA at 6:03 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by CRESTA at 6:03 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Some indications that a lot of this action is happening with MAGA money...
I’d be surprised if Putin isn’t finding a way to back this, too.
I think he is implacably determined that Russia will be the utterly dominant high-latitude power in a warming world, and chaotic fecklessness in Canada as well as the US is a necessity if that vision is to be realized.
posted by jamjam at 6:12 PM on February 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
I’d be surprised if Putin isn’t finding a way to back this, too.
I think he is implacably determined that Russia will be the utterly dominant high-latitude power in a warming world, and chaotic fecklessness in Canada as well as the US is a necessity if that vision is to be realized.
posted by jamjam at 6:12 PM on February 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
Can confirm: fucking assholes are everywhere.
posted by piyushnz at 6:13 PM on February 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by piyushnz at 6:13 PM on February 5, 2022 [14 favorites]
Can confirm: fucking assholes are everywhere.
Degens from up-country as far as the eye can see.
posted by No Robots at 6:26 PM on February 5, 2022 [15 favorites]
Degens from up-country as far as the eye can see.
posted by No Robots at 6:26 PM on February 5, 2022 [15 favorites]
Instead, the City of Ottawa is paying a top-tier turd-polishing firm to spin their bed-shitting as reasonable and prudent.
This is definitely what you do when you have handled a situation well.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:54 PM on February 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
This is definitely what you do when you have handled a situation well.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:54 PM on February 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
It is not being handled well by the authorities.
There is definitely foreign influence going on. But part of it is that people are cosplaying being oppressed/ getting in on the Jan 6th "fun" that the US had.
The shit in Vancouver today and last Saturday - the majority of the people involved are from Mission, Langley, Chiliwack, Abbotsford, etc - far outside of even a loose definition of "the lower mainland."
I was driving into my old neighbourhood from Burnaby to get a haircut - I saw Trump (goddamn fucking shit) flags, "don't tred on me" snek flags, fucking confederate flags.
But the kicker were people flying Canadian flags. What a fucking disgrace. Traitors.
The standout thing for me was looking at their expressions - Glee. Joy.
They aren't protesting, they were enjoying themselves.
Good on the cyclists and others who disrupted the shit out of the protest convoy today. Last week there were disruptions to hospitals, and the goal of the counter protest was to block the convoy from doing so again.
Fucking fascist wannabes were talking over CB about how much they were going to stick it to the "libtards" but started crying once they ran into "no right/ left turns - except bicycles" on roads downtown or when counter protestors started disrupting their joyride. "Hilter" was used to describe the counter protestors.
The police were about 50/50 on doing their (limited, to not escalate) mandate and siding with the convoy shits against the counter protestors.
Weak sauce.
posted by porpoise at 7:19 PM on February 5, 2022 [22 favorites]
There is definitely foreign influence going on. But part of it is that people are cosplaying being oppressed/ getting in on the Jan 6th "fun" that the US had.
The shit in Vancouver today and last Saturday - the majority of the people involved are from Mission, Langley, Chiliwack, Abbotsford, etc - far outside of even a loose definition of "the lower mainland."
I was driving into my old neighbourhood from Burnaby to get a haircut - I saw Trump (goddamn fucking shit) flags, "don't tred on me" snek flags, fucking confederate flags.
But the kicker were people flying Canadian flags. What a fucking disgrace. Traitors.
The standout thing for me was looking at their expressions - Glee. Joy.
They aren't protesting, they were enjoying themselves.
Good on the cyclists and others who disrupted the shit out of the protest convoy today. Last week there were disruptions to hospitals, and the goal of the counter protest was to block the convoy from doing so again.
Fucking fascist wannabes were talking over CB about how much they were going to stick it to the "libtards" but started crying once they ran into "no right/ left turns - except bicycles" on roads downtown or when counter protestors started disrupting their joyride. "Hilter" was used to describe the counter protestors.
The police were about 50/50 on doing their (limited, to not escalate) mandate and siding with the convoy shits against the counter protestors.
Weak sauce.
posted by porpoise at 7:19 PM on February 5, 2022 [22 favorites]
"They did a good job of keeping the truckies (older, white, super-nasty) and the contras (younger, typical Vancouver ethnic mish-mash)." separated."
Can someone explain what "typical Vancouver ethnic mish-mash" is?
posted by clavdivs at 7:25 PM on February 5, 2022
Can someone explain what "typical Vancouver ethnic mish-mash" is?
posted by clavdivs at 7:25 PM on February 5, 2022
My favourite comment on /r/Vancouver today was someone observing that one of the freedumb shit disturbers was using a hockey stick as a flagpole - with a pristine price tag sticker still on the blade.
Poseur.
posted by porpoise at 7:25 PM on February 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
Poseur.
posted by porpoise at 7:25 PM on February 5, 2022 [10 favorites]
Tonight seemed like a shitshow in the wings in downtown Ottawa. You know the vibe when has and the sportsfans roll out onto the street with thrice as much lungpower as brainpower?
It's been like that all week.
These fuckers are so dug-in that they have pizza ovens, saunas, and bouncy castles (autoplay).
So far, it hasn't tipped over into a riot. A staff member at a local & awesome ice cream parlour was assaulted & now all the businesses in centretown are pissed.
I don't know how we get out of this one.
posted by The Outsider at 7:29 PM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
It's been like that all week.
These fuckers are so dug-in that they have pizza ovens, saunas, and bouncy castles (autoplay).
So far, it hasn't tipped over into a riot. A staff member at a local & awesome ice cream parlour was assaulted & now all the businesses in centretown are pissed.
I don't know how we get out of this one.
posted by The Outsider at 7:29 PM on February 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
clavdivs
I have no idea who the guy you linked to on twitter is, but he's not using local slang (contras? truckies?).
Also, the vast majority were asshole raised/ modded trucks and not actual, you know, truckers/ freight logistics vehicles. The dumbasses were 98%+ very white. Actual truckers are >60%++ POC.
As for "typical," scroll down to 'Ethnicity and Visible Minorities.'
posted by porpoise at 7:30 PM on February 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
I have no idea who the guy you linked to on twitter is, but he's not using local slang (contras? truckies?).
Also, the vast majority were asshole raised/ modded trucks and not actual, you know, truckers/ freight logistics vehicles. The dumbasses were 98%+ very white. Actual truckers are >60%++ POC.
As for "typical," scroll down to 'Ethnicity and Visible Minorities.'
posted by porpoise at 7:30 PM on February 5, 2022 [8 favorites]
Confederate flag in Burnaby (where Councillor Joe Keithley sits)? On it's way to Vancouver (where Joey Shithead once said Don't Turn Yer Back on Desperate Times)? Well...
Truck riot, don't buy it
Rebel flag, don't fly it
Truck riot, don't buy it
We don't want that crap
Shit in the streets
Around their trucks
They won't listen
They should have to eat it
Vaxx riot, don't buy it
We don't want that crap
Mask riot, don't buy it
We don't want that crap
No no no no
posted by house-goblin at 8:04 PM on February 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Truck riot, don't buy it
Rebel flag, don't fly it
Truck riot, don't buy it
We don't want that crap
Shit in the streets
Around their trucks
They won't listen
They should have to eat it
Vaxx riot, don't buy it
We don't want that crap
Mask riot, don't buy it
We don't want that crap
No no no no
posted by house-goblin at 8:04 PM on February 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
I live about a block away from the honking truck noise factory. The good thing is that the noise is not constant. It comes in blasts during the day. Quiet now during the night mostly. I'm sad for the folks right on those streets though. Trucks blocking the streets is totally unacceptable. Emergency vehicles can't get to anyone who is in distress. That is a direct threat to public safety.
This weekend saw a huge influx of protesters and their sympathizers on foot. I was going to go to the counterprotest but the Police told everyone to stay away for safety & resourcing reasons. I decided not to go but I walked around downtown. I have to say that for the most part they were peaceful. I got hassled once on the one hour walk in the downtown. There are probably Nazi/racist types in among them but I didn't see anything obvious.
The thing that's stupid and dangerous is the Federal Progressive Conservative party hasn't come out at least to say stop blocking the frickin' roads, stop with the horns. In fact they're egging them on. Even Doug Ford the PC Ontario premier has told the truckers to go home. There is no reason for the trucks to be here. It accomplishes absolutely nothing.
posted by storybored at 8:07 PM on February 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
This weekend saw a huge influx of protesters and their sympathizers on foot. I was going to go to the counterprotest but the Police told everyone to stay away for safety & resourcing reasons. I decided not to go but I walked around downtown. I have to say that for the most part they were peaceful. I got hassled once on the one hour walk in the downtown. There are probably Nazi/racist types in among them but I didn't see anything obvious.
The thing that's stupid and dangerous is the Federal Progressive Conservative party hasn't come out at least to say stop blocking the frickin' roads, stop with the horns. In fact they're egging them on. Even Doug Ford the PC Ontario premier has told the truckers to go home. There is no reason for the trucks to be here. It accomplishes absolutely nothing.
posted by storybored at 8:07 PM on February 5, 2022 [16 favorites]
Using the military against civilian protestors on home soil, no matter how aggressively they are behaving, is an end-game move where everyone loses.
Trudeau son of all people would know about that.
I live about a block away from the honking truck noise factory. The good thing is that the noise is not constant. It comes in blasts during the day. Quiet now during the night mostly. I'm sad for the folks right on those streets though. Trucks blocking the streets is totally unacceptable. Emergency vehicles can't get to anyone who is in distress. That is a direct threat to public safety.
I don't understand how all of you are so calm about this. If I lived there I'd have fantasies about throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails at those assholes.. I mean don't do this, there's no good outcome this, but I'd be fuming.
The thing that's stupid and dangerous is the Federal Progressive Conservative party hasn't come out at least to say stop blocking the frickin' roads, stop with the horns. In fact they're egging them on
Some media been having a lot of fun rolling their old tapes of conservative MPs clamoring for the end of the Wetʼsuwetʼen rail blockages because, and I've seen some real verbal acrobatics from conservative MPs trying to maneuver out of the corner they painted themselves into.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:38 PM on February 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
Trudeau son of all people would know about that.
I live about a block away from the honking truck noise factory. The good thing is that the noise is not constant. It comes in blasts during the day. Quiet now during the night mostly. I'm sad for the folks right on those streets though. Trucks blocking the streets is totally unacceptable. Emergency vehicles can't get to anyone who is in distress. That is a direct threat to public safety.
I don't understand how all of you are so calm about this. If I lived there I'd have fantasies about throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails at those assholes.. I mean don't do this, there's no good outcome this, but I'd be fuming.
The thing that's stupid and dangerous is the Federal Progressive Conservative party hasn't come out at least to say stop blocking the frickin' roads, stop with the horns. In fact they're egging them on
Some media been having a lot of fun rolling their old tapes of conservative MPs clamoring for the end of the Wetʼsuwetʼen rail blockages because
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:38 PM on February 5, 2022 [7 favorites]
Canberra in AU seems to be going through something similar. Clogging up the roads around the airport.
Be interesting to see how long it lasts or will they get bored and leave or will authorities just move them on?
The Vancouver approach of community defence seems like a potential option when the Police are so feckless but that would take a fair bit of organising.
posted by phigmov at 8:43 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Be interesting to see how long it lasts or will they get bored and leave or will authorities just move them on?
The Vancouver approach of community defence seems like a potential option when the Police are so feckless but that would take a fair bit of organising.
posted by phigmov at 8:43 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't understand how all of you are so calm about this. If I lived there I'd have fantasies about throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails at those assholes.
Tools and strategies for waging war against trucks are carefully explored in the classic The Pushcart War (see also its Large Object Theory of history).
posted by trig at 9:16 PM on February 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
Tools and strategies for waging war against trucks are carefully explored in the classic The Pushcart War (see also its Large Object Theory of history).
posted by trig at 9:16 PM on February 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
“The thing that's stupid and dangerous is the Federal Progressive Conservative party hasn't come out at least to say stop blocking the frickin' roads, stop with the horns. In fact they're egging them on.”
The interim leader Bergen was chastising Freeland in the House for not offering the truckers an ‘olive branch’. No suggestion, of course, as to what an olive branch might actually be, nor why they merit one.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:17 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
The interim leader Bergen was chastising Freeland in the House for not offering the truckers an ‘olive branch’. No suggestion, of course, as to what an olive branch might actually be, nor why they merit one.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:17 PM on February 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
The interim leader Bergen was chastising Freeland in the House for not offering the truckers an ‘olive branch’. No suggestion, of course, as to what an olive branch might actually be, nor why they merit one.
What is it again? Oh yeah.... We don't negotiate with terrorists.
Cause I don't know what that is if not that.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 9:23 PM on February 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
What is it again? Oh yeah.... We don't negotiate with terrorists.
Cause I don't know what that is if not that.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 9:23 PM on February 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
I assume it's freezing in Ottawa at this time of year, might be appropriate to pull out some fire hoses to clean up all that shit, 6 inches of ice covering a truck might shut them up for a bit
posted by mbo at 9:31 PM on February 5, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by mbo at 9:31 PM on February 5, 2022 [13 favorites]
If I lived there I'd have fantasies about throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails
It is factual that (some) eggs were launched and intersected with (some) vehicles. Said vehicles might cost as much as a work vehicle, but have probably never seen real work. Oversized parking lot orchids.
posted by porpoise at 9:33 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
It is factual that (some) eggs were launched and intersected with (some) vehicles. Said vehicles might cost as much as a work vehicle, but have probably never seen real work. Oversized parking lot orchids.
posted by porpoise at 9:33 PM on February 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I don't want any member of the House offering an olive branch to a group that included somebody waving a Nazi flag.
posted by house-goblin at 9:33 PM on February 5, 2022 [19 favorites]
posted by house-goblin at 9:33 PM on February 5, 2022 [19 favorites]
I don't want any member of the House offering an olive branch to a group that included somebody waving a Nazi flag.
I saw someone scoffing in a comments section a day or so go about these "imaginary" hate symbols in the crowd in Ottawa -- he said he had seen zero evidence of this and it was the MSM dividing us, etc. (I'm sure you all know the drill). I sent him links to news photos of a couple of Nazi and Confederate flags; "Two in a crowd of thousands!" I sent three more. "These are hardly any!!" A few more still. "Pshaw; a mere scattering." I finally asked directly how many was an acceptable number in a legal, peaceful demonstration.
I guess he is still doing the math because he has not yet replied.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:11 PM on February 5, 2022 [41 favorites]
I saw someone scoffing in a comments section a day or so go about these "imaginary" hate symbols in the crowd in Ottawa -- he said he had seen zero evidence of this and it was the MSM dividing us, etc. (I'm sure you all know the drill). I sent him links to news photos of a couple of Nazi and Confederate flags; "Two in a crowd of thousands!" I sent three more. "These are hardly any!!" A few more still. "Pshaw; a mere scattering." I finally asked directly how many was an acceptable number in a legal, peaceful demonstration.
I guess he is still doing the math because he has not yet replied.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:11 PM on February 5, 2022 [41 favorites]
IKR?? You shouldn't be okay with any amount of Confederate or Nazi flags, and if you see those in your "protest" and you're not going over and saying something, then you're part of the problem.
posted by Kitteh at 5:46 AM on February 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 5:46 AM on February 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
Well, we just stormed out and left our church over this. Our priest, who had previously gone on about how BLM protests were too extreme, got up and talked about how we had to support and stand up for the truck occupation because they are fighting for bodily and personal freedom, which he said is what Jesus would want. And then he asked us to pray for them.
My biggest regret is not hollering out “if you stand up with Nazis, you are no better than a Nazi” on our way out.
The hypocrisy was unbelievable.
posted by fimbulvetr at 7:46 AM on February 6, 2022 [77 favorites]
My biggest regret is not hollering out “if you stand up with Nazis, you are no better than a Nazi” on our way out.
The hypocrisy was unbelievable.
posted by fimbulvetr at 7:46 AM on February 6, 2022 [77 favorites]
I don't want to see any MP offering an "olive branch" to a bunch that allows Confederate flags to be flown.
I certainly don't want a government that will make deals with Nazis. Historically, that never ends well.
posted by bonehead at 8:03 AM on February 6, 2022 [11 favorites]
I certainly don't want a government that will make deals with Nazis. Historically, that never ends well.
posted by bonehead at 8:03 AM on February 6, 2022 [11 favorites]
good on you, fimbulvetr
posted by scruss at 8:25 AM on February 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by scruss at 8:25 AM on February 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
Tools and strategies for waging war against trucks are carefully explored in the classic The Pushcart War
Perhaps, to some extent, but their main weapon was (spoiler alert!) needles inserted in dried beans, deployed via soda-straw-blowguns which IRL would not cause punctures. I think instead, in this case, police should have been issuing 'disturbing the peace' citations, from the very first night --- why didn't that occur? Ottawa police don't actually live in Ottawa?
I do like mbo's idea about water. Even super soakers directed in through drivers' open windows.
posted by Rash at 8:39 AM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Perhaps, to some extent, but their main weapon was (spoiler alert!) needles inserted in dried beans, deployed via soda-straw-blowguns which IRL would not cause punctures. I think instead, in this case, police should have been issuing 'disturbing the peace' citations, from the very first night --- why didn't that occur? Ottawa police don't actually live in Ottawa?
I do like mbo's idea about water. Even super soakers directed in through drivers' open windows.
posted by Rash at 8:39 AM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Perhaps, to some extent, but their main weapon was (spoiler alert!) [pea-shooters] which IRL would not cause punctures.
(Yes, it was a joke)
That said -- and watching from abroad -- it feels strange that there hasn't been more citizen organization against this. The numbers I've seen for counter-protests are in the tens and low hundreds. Are people not taking it seriously, are they holding onto faith that the government will act, are they afraid, is this a strategy to help the truckers make themselves more hated, or are there other considerations?
posted by trig at 9:14 AM on February 6, 2022
(Yes, it was a joke)
That said -- and watching from abroad -- it feels strange that there hasn't been more citizen organization against this. The numbers I've seen for counter-protests are in the tens and low hundreds. Are people not taking it seriously, are they holding onto faith that the government will act, are they afraid, is this a strategy to help the truckers make themselves more hated, or are there other considerations?
posted by trig at 9:14 AM on February 6, 2022
which he said is what Jesus would want
Confederate and Nazi flags
speeding up and down residential streets blowing truck horns all day
assaulting food service workers
screaming hatred at health care workers
pissing and shitting in public spaces
what Jesus would want
posted by hangashore at 9:18 AM on February 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
Confederate and Nazi flags
speeding up and down residential streets blowing truck horns all day
assaulting food service workers
screaming hatred at health care workers
pissing and shitting in public spaces
what Jesus would want
posted by hangashore at 9:18 AM on February 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
are they afraid
I am here in ottawa and did not attend the counter protest because yes, I am afraid. Both of the "protesters" and of the lack of assured police protection. It is not a coincidence they decided to start enforcing the law the day of the counter protest.
No one from The City is willing to stand with the city's citizens.
posted by aclevername at 10:14 AM on February 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
I am here in ottawa and did not attend the counter protest because yes, I am afraid. Both of the "protesters" and of the lack of assured police protection. It is not a coincidence they decided to start enforcing the law the day of the counter protest.
No one from The City is willing to stand with the city's citizens.
posted by aclevername at 10:14 AM on February 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
A friend of mine is a priest in Toronto. She went to the counter-protest and nearly got run over. These people are without honor.
posted by suelac at 10:17 AM on February 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by suelac at 10:17 AM on February 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
Margret Atwood once said something along the lines of “Maybe we should be careful about which stories we tell”, so I hate putting this in print: It feels like everything that comes from these people in the last year or so is a probing action and the next step is a bunch of US coal rollers coming over the border in numbers enough to overwhelm it. Are border services going to start shooting at civilians? When they cross, they could blend in by stealing local plates and carry enough weaponry to travel unmolested, commandeering whatever they need. They'd probably find tons of support with local fascist dipshits and the police will declare it a national security issue and beyond the scope of local enforcement…Trudeau's problem.
posted by brachiopod at 10:33 AM on February 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by brachiopod at 10:33 AM on February 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
it feels strange that there hasn't been more citizen organization against this.
In combination with brachiopod's comment above, this is keeping a few of us up at night for sure. All it would take is a tiny percentage of bored larpers to head up north and make the current situations much worse.. that's not even touching the likelihood that there is a level of organized funding feeding into this activity.. There are people with goals, making the most of an opportunity.
I'd have to travel ~1.5 hours to attend a counter-protest, and be at work for Monday morning. If I set aside a weekend, or vacation time, to get involved it would require planning around care for pets, putting off quite a few volunteer obligations (language lessons, AGM with another group, secretary for still another group, etc). In hindsight I may come to recognize that the time to take action was (then) and I do think about that.. when is it time to take action? Meanwhile, what possesses people to drive across the country in some cases, and commit to multiple days--will we tolerate weeks of this?--occupying spaces in our cities. Have these people made arrangements for their affairs, who is feeding their dog/cat etc? Do they have no other commitments? A trip across Canada would be a major undertaking for me, I'd have to really plan my vacation time and finances. So I'm thinking a lot about all of this lately, and it's just a flavour swirl of the crisis sundae we all have before us. It wears you down, but at some point a response is by default inevitable. The famous historical example of Germany shows us what our response may end up being: peaceful resistance (often leading to death); violent resistance (often leading to death); surreptitious resistance, capitulation, resignation, conversion.. Did any of us think we'd grow old and die a peaceful death? Maybe so, but history provides many examples of rude awakenings.
posted by elkevelvet at 10:55 AM on February 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
In combination with brachiopod's comment above, this is keeping a few of us up at night for sure. All it would take is a tiny percentage of bored larpers to head up north and make the current situations much worse.. that's not even touching the likelihood that there is a level of organized funding feeding into this activity.. There are people with goals, making the most of an opportunity.
I'd have to travel ~1.5 hours to attend a counter-protest, and be at work for Monday morning. If I set aside a weekend, or vacation time, to get involved it would require planning around care for pets, putting off quite a few volunteer obligations (language lessons, AGM with another group, secretary for still another group, etc). In hindsight I may come to recognize that the time to take action was (then) and I do think about that.. when is it time to take action? Meanwhile, what possesses people to drive across the country in some cases, and commit to multiple days--will we tolerate weeks of this?--occupying spaces in our cities. Have these people made arrangements for their affairs, who is feeding their dog/cat etc? Do they have no other commitments? A trip across Canada would be a major undertaking for me, I'd have to really plan my vacation time and finances. So I'm thinking a lot about all of this lately, and it's just a flavour swirl of the crisis sundae we all have before us. It wears you down, but at some point a response is by default inevitable. The famous historical example of Germany shows us what our response may end up being: peaceful resistance (often leading to death); violent resistance (often leading to death); surreptitious resistance, capitulation, resignation, conversion.. Did any of us think we'd grow old and die a peaceful death? Maybe so, but history provides many examples of rude awakenings.
posted by elkevelvet at 10:55 AM on February 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
Peggy Blair @peggy_blair · 2hposted by sebastienbailard at 11:08 AM on February 6, 2022 [30 favorites]
Very good point made by someone in my Twitter feed. On Wednesday, Chief Sloly referred to tagging and towing as not being an "elegant solution." I heard it and made a mental note of it but didn't think about it. 1/
This is language that comes from interest-based negotiations of the type I studied at Harvard. You may have heard of the phrase "win-win" solutions. That language was developed by Roger Fisher who I studied with. 2/
An "elegant solution" is one that satisfies everyone's interests to some extent. It has to have aspects in it that are tolerable to third parties, satisfactory to the other party to the negotiations and meet your interests as effectively as possible. 3/
Tagging and towing is not an elegant solution to a negotiation. It doesn't meet the truckers interests or the demands of the protesters. 4/
But it is enforcing the law. So the use of that phrase, which slid by me the first time, indicates that Sloly sees his rule as not one of enforcement, but of finding a solution that meets the protesters' interests. 5/
Certainly, an interest-based solution is an ideal outcome. For example, when people protest an abortion clinic, one of their interests is to be able to protest while people running the clinic and patients want to have access without being harassed.6/
So maybe you can negotiate where they can stand a safe distance away. That would be an elegant solution. But there's another aspect to interest-based negotiations, which is weakening the other sides position while you strengthen your own.7/
And that is what has been missing throughout this ordeal. Tagging and towing is not an elegant solution. But it is a way to strengthen your negotiating position by showing you have a strong alternative to negotiations.8/
It is not clear to me what exactly Sloly was hoping to see as an elegant solution that would satisfy truckers' interests as well as those of the city and its residents. It's not his job, for example, to discuss vaccine mandates.9/
Yet he has referred to the issue with the truckers as being societal, and the protests not ending until there is a plan to resolve the global pandemic, and as the issue extending nationwide. 10/
Peggy Blair
His job is supposed to be first and foremost to protect the citizens of Ottawa. From his perspective, this should not be seen as a national issue. It is a local enforcement issue for which he has a number of tools. 11/
He can tag and tow, he can ticket for various infractions, he has the power to make arrests, he can block off roads, he can enforce local bylaws etc. 12/
One of the first things he announced early on in the protest was that he could not block off roads because of the Charter. This was either an ignorant or deliberate misstatement. We block off roads all the time on Canada day as one example.13/
Because of that, trucks were allowed to enter the core. Vehicles have been deliberately disabled to block off roads. Protesters have been permitted to set up refueling stations throughout the city. 14/
An area that was negotiated for parking purposes only has turned into a staging area with refueling stations and saunas. Protesters were permitted to build a structure in Confederation Park and turn it into a soup kitchen.15/
Instead of removing gas cans that were stockpiled at Confederation Park and confiscating them, the NCC was told they were removed when in fact they were simply covered by a tarp.16/
We were told that the numbers were down to 250-300 protesters and that trucks would be removed, and none of that happened. Now we are told there are approximately 5,000 protesters in the city.17/
And today the protesters issued a press release thanking the police for doing a superb job of protecting them.18/
All of which tells me that the police chief has failed to use any of the tools at his disposal that help in negotiating an exit by the protesters, and instead has taken steps to allow them to strengthen their hands.19/
I should have seen all of that coming when I heard the words "elegant solution." The elegant solution would be we won't tag and tow your truck if you leave now, which would have met the interests of the protesters and those of the city. 21/
By announcing that that tagging and towing was not an elegant solution, he was telling us loud and clear (and telling the protesters as well) that he had no intention of enforcing the law.//
Let me just add, there is nothing wrong with an interest-based approach. It's in the protestors' interest not to be arrested, charged, tagged or towed. Start there. But it is not the police chief's job to try to find a forum to negotiate their grievances.//
And as another addendum, making unilateral concessions in the hope of building a relationship with the other party only leads to demands for more concessions. That is part of interest-based negotiation training as well. ///
We had to drive into downtown Toronto yesterday - heading for right near the base of the CN Tower. Coming from the southwest that meant we were delayed over an hour with the road closures. 99% of the cars around us were just going about their usual business, but there was that 1% of neofascist assholes heading for their 'protest'. The only transport truck was just the cab, with two Canadian flags, one American flag and one Punisher flag flying from various points, plus long spikes on the hubcaps. Exactly what you'd expect. They aren't protesting anything beyond not already having their new fascist state.
Thing is, the reason we had to be in Toronto yesterday was because our son was killed in a jobsite accident last week and we were trying to get to his memorial service. Frankly, the absolute hatred I had for those assholes delaying us from mourning our son... argh, words fail me. It's been the worst week of our lives, and they were just making it worse.
posted by bcd at 11:38 AM on February 6, 2022 [68 favorites]
Thing is, the reason we had to be in Toronto yesterday was because our son was killed in a jobsite accident last week and we were trying to get to his memorial service. Frankly, the absolute hatred I had for those assholes delaying us from mourning our son... argh, words fail me. It's been the worst week of our lives, and they were just making it worse.
posted by bcd at 11:38 AM on February 6, 2022 [68 favorites]
.
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:42 AM on February 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:42 AM on February 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
our son was killed in a jobsite accident last week and we were trying to get to his memorial service
I am so, so sorry you have to navigate this bullshit while you're mourning.
posted by aclevername at 11:59 AM on February 6, 2022 [23 favorites]
I am so, so sorry you have to navigate this bullshit while you're mourning.
posted by aclevername at 11:59 AM on February 6, 2022 [23 favorites]
Ah shit, bcd. That's fucking horrendous. I'm sorry.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:07 PM on February 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:07 PM on February 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
> That said -- and watching from abroad -- it feels strange that there hasn't been more citizen organization against this. The numbers I've seen for counter-protests are in the tens and low hundreds. Are people not taking it seriously, are they holding onto faith that the government will act, are they afraid, is this a strategy to help the truckers make themselves more hated, or are there other considerations?
Factors:
1) leadership failure, apparently? if you have the interest or stomach to skim this: https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/slkquz/mackenzie_here_lets_clear_up_some_confusion_about/
https://www.metafilter.com/194285/The-Siege-of-Ottawa-Counterprotest-Today#8206025
2) the pandemic, maybe.
3) The cops have been letting the occupiers run rampant. And taking selfies with them. Do you trust them to protect us from a prospective textbook right-wing vehicular assault?
-------------
In r/ottawa, right now, you get banned for suggesting throwing eggs at the occupiers.
-------------------------
https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/slnksi/ottawa_city_councilor_doesnt_mince_words_during/
Factors:
1) leadership failure, apparently? if you have the interest or stomach to skim this: https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/slkquz/mackenzie_here_lets_clear_up_some_confusion_about/
https://www.metafilter.com/194285/The-Siege-of-Ottawa-Counterprotest-Today#8206025
2) the pandemic, maybe.
3) The cops have been letting the occupiers run rampant. And taking selfies with them. Do you trust them to protect us from a prospective textbook right-wing vehicular assault?
-------------
In r/ottawa, right now, you get banned for suggesting throwing eggs at the occupiers.
-------------------------
https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/slnksi/ottawa_city_councilor_doesnt_mince_words_during/
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:13 PM on February 6, 2022 [5 favorites]Sounds to me like the police aren’t on the side of their residents. This is making me sad.CloneasaurusRex
7 hr. ago· edited 2 hr. ago
This is why so many of us are wigging out over this so badly. If they would have started handing out fines for the persistent honking going into the night there would not have been the absolute hatred of the residents toward the convoyers we have seen over the past week. At least arrest those assholes with train horns and dismantle their devices, which are used strictly to punish and harass residents.
I think now there are legitimate grievances and legitimate reasons to protest. I have said a lot of things about the protestors I regret, and I would not have become this hateful, bile-spewing ogre had the police done the minimum from the beginning. The trust between the city and our police force is shattered.
I guess one good thing to come out of this is that the white residents of Ottawa now know what indigenous and people of colour have known for years. And it's never been "trust" between the city and the police force, it's only ever been the blind faith of white people that the cops are there for them.
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:27 PM on February 6, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:27 PM on February 6, 2022 [9 favorites]
Sloly:"Not a policing problem, but a societal one"
Is from this, I think:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/sm398m/in_response_to_cllr_meehans_questions_re_police/
/https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/slxhs3/comment/hvuro7z/
Is from this, I think:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/sm398m/in_response_to_cllr_meehans_questions_re_police/
It is clear that this is not just about incompetence but about complicit 'incompetence'. And most recently, Sloly has turned his strategy from total inaction to "paralysis by analysis" by asking for more consultation, more meetings, a formal approval that as police, they are legally allowed to arrest people for illegal actions and clear infractions of the law, coordination with other levels of government, coordination with other agencies such as NCC, etc.---------------------------------------
This way he can pretend that his hands are tied and there needs to be more done... while nothing is done to address the hostile invasion of the capital by a criminal gang totally divorced from reality.
I can't believe the citizens of Ottawa are seeing this play out right before their eyes and not firing Sloly and his whole complicit team. The Council is also for the most part incompetent with the exception of Meehan.
Watch the video:
https://youtu.be/MK131_eiG9s?t=5460Chapmandala
54m
I watched it as well; his smarmy arrogance was palpable. He needs to resign or be removed. Not in months, but right fucking now.canarchist 1h
He needs to be removed and under investigation for complicity.u/Chapmandala avatar Chapmandala.
I agree and am not holding my breath for any level of accountability besides removal from his job.
u/SidetrackedSue avatar
SidetrackedSue
Westboro
I actually started to skip over his answers and jump to the police commissioners' questions.
The quote for me was the deputy chief, though. "We can't just take the law into our own hands."
No-one was asking that OPS make up laws, they were asking them to enforce the laws that existed. Instead OPS spent a lot of time over the past week explaining to us patiently that they couldn't do their jobs and we couldn't do their jobs for them or else they'd have to do their jobs and ticket us.u/Chapmandala avatar : Chapmandala
Thoughts and prayers for his career.u/SidetrackedSue : SidetrackedSue : Westboro
I just hope there's a large flush out over the next 5 years or so.
He failed at his job at leading his officers. I suspect the institutional racism within the OPS meant that his officers simply refused to follow his commands. Leaving him to have to cover that up.
It will take a proper external review to get to the bottom of who didn't do what.
I feel there's a strong link between officers following orders from the union instead of the chief
/https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/slxhs3/comment/hvuro7z/
Scary-Tackle-7335posted by sebastienbailard at 1:26 PM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
23m
A guy I know is buddies with a few Ottawa cops. He's pretty pro trucker and anti trudeau and he was discussing how the police basically don't give a shit, they all support this because "liberals" want to defund the police so they are letting this all go down and hoping trudeau will be forced to do something. Not to mention the fact alot of people forget the police did a little sleight of hand but got caught regarding the vaccine passport being mandatory. They made it mandatory after public outcry effective the day after it was set to expire in January. Not sure if any have been let go or if they extended the deadline.
Long story short f the police.
Edit = defend to defund
In other news, 8-9 days in, ops/bylaw may have started ticketing.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:30 PM on February 6, 2022
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:30 PM on February 6, 2022
They also announced today they're not going to allow refuelling anymore — as of midnight.
So the protestors are spending the day bringing in wagons full of jerry cans.
*slow clap
posted by saturday_morning at 1:45 PM on February 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
So the protestors are spending the day bringing in wagons full of jerry cans.
*slow clap
posted by saturday_morning at 1:45 PM on February 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
Truck convoy: Watson declares state of emergency in Ottawa; People bringing 'material' supports to protesters — including gas — could be subject to arrest, police say
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:49 PM on February 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:49 PM on February 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
I don't understand how all of you are so calm about this. If I lived there I'd have fantasies about throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails at those assholes.. I mean don't do this, there's no good outcome this, but I'd be fuming.
Oh we are angry as hell, but we are also extremely vulnerable. These people are basically marauding and attacking people on the streets. The local councillors had planned community safety walks so there were safe eyes on the streets and had to cancel them because the threat of violence was so high. The main grocery stores in the centre of the city are right in the thick of all of this and you chance getting screamed at on the sidewalks if you're wearing a mask. They've also basically taken over the LRT line and are screaming at people wearing their mandatory masks. This is not something regular citizens can go out do anything about, furious as we are. We ARE, however, collecting photos and information about trucks that are involved so that the businesses that are supporting this are named and shamed.
posted by urbanlenny at 1:54 PM on February 6, 2022 [29 favorites]
Oh we are angry as hell, but we are also extremely vulnerable. These people are basically marauding and attacking people on the streets. The local councillors had planned community safety walks so there were safe eyes on the streets and had to cancel them because the threat of violence was so high. The main grocery stores in the centre of the city are right in the thick of all of this and you chance getting screamed at on the sidewalks if you're wearing a mask. They've also basically taken over the LRT line and are screaming at people wearing their mandatory masks. This is not something regular citizens can go out do anything about, furious as we are. We ARE, however, collecting photos and information about trucks that are involved so that the businesses that are supporting this are named and shamed.
posted by urbanlenny at 1:54 PM on February 6, 2022 [29 favorites]
Current r/ottawa megathread:
So according to Ford, OPS has had access to 1,500 police officers from both our own police force, and external reinforcements, and they let it get this bad. I have to really wonder what Watson's state of emergency will change, when the OPS has had more than enough manpower this entire time. At some points during the week, there were only 100-250 people down there. What stopped the OPS from actually doing anything?
dingdongmerrilyon_hiposted by sebastienbailard at 1:56 PM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
What shade by the Solicitor General. I hope this blows up in sloly's face. He should be disgraced.Doucevie
They were complicit.Dusty_Dragon
I don't know if they were or not... but it *really looks bad* doesn't it?Doucevie
It really does. Yes, they can say they were negotiating but holy fuck they were watching people commit crimes for 8 days. So yes, the optics are horrible.ottawaecyclist
They really were. Our mayor and police chief have essentially recieved a vote of non-confidence from the public and should both be made to resign. But we've been saying that for a week now.Smartest thing Watson could do right now is resign .
> Oh we are angry as hell, but we are also extremely vulnerable. These people are basically marauding and attacking people on the streets.
And if you fight back, are the cops on your side? Or are they going to help the occupiers? Or just walk away, while you get beaten, or run over? Help you pick up your teeth, after the fact? Fine you for littering?
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:12 PM on February 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
And if you fight back, are the cops on your side? Or are they going to help the occupiers? Or just walk away, while you get beaten, or run over? Help you pick up your teeth, after the fact? Fine you for littering?
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:12 PM on February 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
And if you fight back, are the cops on your side? Or are they going to help the occupiers? Or just walk away, while you get beaten, or run over? Help you pick up your teeth, after the fact? Fine you for littering?
Exactly. There have been quite a few accounts of the cops just leaving or turning their backs.
posted by urbanlenny at 2:22 PM on February 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
Exactly. There have been quite a few accounts of the cops just leaving or turning their backs.
posted by urbanlenny at 2:22 PM on February 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
bcd, I’m so sorry for your loss and also that these jerks were delaying you on the way to your son’s memorial service. That’s just unconscionable.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 2:43 PM on February 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 2:43 PM on February 6, 2022 [6 favorites]
Based on this 2 hour livestream from Queen's Park earlier today, it seems that the Toronto protest is petering out. Unfortunately for Ottawa, it seems like most of the... uh... "committed" protesters continue to head that way.
posted by clawsoon at 2:58 PM on February 6, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 2:58 PM on February 6, 2022
We ARE, however, collecting photos and information about trucks that are involved so that the businesses that are supporting this are named and shamed.
This, and information about these companies is going to major insurers as well. (Here's the link to the database if anyone has anything to contribute. We're also pressing our officials at all levels to do their jobs. I hear there will be a demonstration in front of Ottawa Police Services over the next couple of days.
On a more humorous note, there's some very entertaining disrupting/trolling of the convoy Zello channels going on, and some enterprising people are catfishing horny protestors on Tinder and sending them to police HQ. (Check out the hashtag #RamRanchResistance for the NSFW--and very rude--details.)
The Mayor has finally declared an official state of emergency. It's a necessary but not sufficient step to supporting police action.
I know it doesn't sound like much, but the civil lawfare stuff might actually have some real bite. I'm glad people are remaining mostly peaceful in light of this extreme provocation. Much as I'd like to punch a couple of Nazis myself, it would not make things better, now or for the future.
posted by rpfields at 3:21 PM on February 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
This, and information about these companies is going to major insurers as well. (Here's the link to the database if anyone has anything to contribute. We're also pressing our officials at all levels to do their jobs. I hear there will be a demonstration in front of Ottawa Police Services over the next couple of days.
On a more humorous note, there's some very entertaining disrupting/trolling of the convoy Zello channels going on, and some enterprising people are catfishing horny protestors on Tinder and sending them to police HQ. (Check out the hashtag #RamRanchResistance for the NSFW--and very rude--details.)
The Mayor has finally declared an official state of emergency. It's a necessary but not sufficient step to supporting police action.
I know it doesn't sound like much, but the civil lawfare stuff might actually have some real bite. I'm glad people are remaining mostly peaceful in light of this extreme provocation. Much as I'd like to punch a couple of Nazis myself, it would not make things better, now or for the future.
posted by rpfields at 3:21 PM on February 6, 2022 [7 favorites]
Easter came early for one lucky trucker:
u/alamgirkhan : alamgirkhanposted by sebastienbailard at 3:52 PM on February 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
You mean you accidentally dropped an egg from the 17th floor of your building, which happen to land on the hood of a truck
Canberra in AU seems to be going through something similar. Clogging up the roads around the airport. Be interesting to see how long it lasts or will they get bored and leave or will authorities just move them on?
Can confirm. They are picking different targets every day, at the moment they're heading for the Governor-General's residence in Yarralumla. I work at Parliament House and expect to see a fair bit of them in the near future. So far they've been disruptive and unpleasant but Canberra's layout isn't suited to an Ottawa-style occupation. I hope.
posted by the duck by the oboe at 3:56 PM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Can confirm. They are picking different targets every day, at the moment they're heading for the Governor-General's residence in Yarralumla. I work at Parliament House and expect to see a fair bit of them in the near future. So far they've been disruptive and unpleasant but Canberra's layout isn't suited to an Ottawa-style occupation. I hope.
posted by the duck by the oboe at 3:56 PM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Do take notes on all of this, by the way.
Because there are lots of cities in the United States where this wouldn't play similarly. Particularly for any American participants, there is an element of Insurrection Safari at work here that wouldn't be quite as easy to pull off back home. But are people taking notes as to which American cities could be similarly hogtied by massive amounts of vehicular metal, and whose police departments and mayors might be inclined to be similarly hands-off and sympathetic to Truckers Fighting The Libs?
Oh, yes.
posted by delfin at 4:27 PM on February 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
Because there are lots of cities in the United States where this wouldn't play similarly. Particularly for any American participants, there is an element of Insurrection Safari at work here that wouldn't be quite as easy to pull off back home. But are people taking notes as to which American cities could be similarly hogtied by massive amounts of vehicular metal, and whose police departments and mayors might be inclined to be similarly hands-off and sympathetic to Truckers Fighting The Libs?
Oh, yes.
posted by delfin at 4:27 PM on February 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
>The Mayor has finally declared an official state of emergency. It's a necessary but not sufficient step to supporting police action.
From the megathread, we're seeing RCMP and OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) officers who've been summoned in by the Mayor, and hopefully are eager to show our local chucklefucks how to do their jobs.
My current theory is that Mayor Watson turned on the occupiers when they made a rookie developers' error, in erecting a bouncy castle without first donating to his political campaign.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/sm7x4b/comment/hvvaxcc/
From the megathread, we're seeing RCMP and OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) officers who've been summoned in by the Mayor, and hopefully are eager to show our local chucklefucks how to do their jobs.
My current theory is that Mayor Watson turned on the occupiers when they made a rookie developers' error, in erecting a bouncy castle without first donating to his political campaign.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/sm7x4b/comment/hvvaxcc/
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:37 PM on February 6, 2022 [4 favorites]u/demps9:u/plentyofsilverfish:
also arrest and remove sloly
No I want the convoy creeps arrested and removed quicky
Judy Trinh @judyatrinh · 9m
Breaking : Ottawa Police dismantling Convoy protestors logistics camp on Conventry Roadposted by sebastienbailard at 4:49 PM on February 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
[Embedded video]
There is a long row of tow trucks at the ready to remove transport trucks
I see 30 police officers dismantling the logistics camp
Oy. This Twitter thread:
Last night two arsonists brought a full package of firestarter bricks into our building's lobby at 5AM. The building is located at Metcalfe & Lisgar.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:56 PM on February 6, 2022 [9 favorites]
Last night two arsonists brought a full package of firestarter bricks into our building's lobby at 5AM. The building is located at Metcalfe & Lisgar.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:56 PM on February 6, 2022 [9 favorites]
Old building with wood paneling. They taped the doors shut.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:58 PM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:58 PM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
All those ditched cars and trucks are potential IEDs.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:59 PM on February 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:59 PM on February 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
The Metcalfe/Lisgar building seems to have been The Algonquin on the north west corner (judging by the pavement in front of the door). We have a friend who lives in that building. SO glad it was stopped early.
posted by urbanlenny at 5:19 PM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by urbanlenny at 5:19 PM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Me most of the time: ugh, the black bloc, ugh "diversity of tactics", no thank you
Me right now: hey, Ottawa, do you have anyone in the black bloc that can slash these guys' tires?
posted by pelvicsorcery at 5:20 PM on February 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
Me right now: hey, Ottawa, do you have anyone in the black bloc that can slash these guys' tires?
posted by pelvicsorcery at 5:20 PM on February 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
Lawful actions you can take against the Occupation, without leaving your house.
posted by storybored at 5:22 PM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by storybored at 5:22 PM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Mod note: The copy/pasting from reddit is doing weird things to people's displays -- please use ctrl-shift-V to paste plain text, and try not to copy several comments in a row without removing extraneous in-between stuff.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 5:23 PM on February 6, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 5:23 PM on February 6, 2022 [15 favorites]
Everybody's against black bloc until they need some Nazis' tires slashed.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:38 PM on February 6, 2022 [21 favorites]
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:38 PM on February 6, 2022 [21 favorites]
Me right now: hey, Ottawa, do you have anyone in the black bloc that can slash these guys' tires?
There is definitely a strong "Hey, Godzilla's on our side now!" vibe in my household right now.
posted by rpfields at 5:58 PM on February 6, 2022
There is definitely a strong "Hey, Godzilla's on our side now!" vibe in my household right now.
posted by rpfields at 5:58 PM on February 6, 2022
It certainly is a strange day when you see statements from First Nations and Indigenous communities in support of police taking action to stop people from "protesting" but it has happened.
bcd Please accept my deepest condolences on your heartbreaking loss.
posted by sardonyx at 5:59 PM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
bcd Please accept my deepest condolences on your heartbreaking loss.
posted by sardonyx at 5:59 PM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
At the Toronto G20 protests that made the Black Bloc's reputation, the Black Bloc WAS the police.
So don’t hold your breath waiting for them to slash Nazi tires.
posted by jamjam at 6:00 PM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
So don’t hold your breath waiting for them to slash Nazi tires.
posted by jamjam at 6:00 PM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
(Black bloc is a tactic, not a group.)
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:18 PM on February 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:18 PM on February 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
We don't want the Black Bloc agitators. They're almost as bad as the "truckers". We want our home back.
posted by bonehead at 6:21 PM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by bonehead at 6:21 PM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
(Black bloc is a tactic, not a group.)
That’s an interesting though somewhat puzzling way to look at it, but undercover cops do seem like a group to me.
posted by jamjam at 6:30 PM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
That’s an interesting though somewhat puzzling way to look at it, but undercover cops do seem like a group to me.
posted by jamjam at 6:30 PM on February 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Imagine if the arsonists had had one jerry can.
Fire trucks and ambulances wouldn't have been able to do anything with the roads blocked.
More than 12h+ hours after the arson attempt, police, having recovered from the blue flu, finally raided the 302 Conventry site, taking away fuel cans and propane tanks, leaving trucks and bewildered would-be occupiers untouched, to whine at cameras about injustice before stumbling into the night to find warm beds.
Schadenfreude: https://mobile.twitter.com/judyatrinh/status/1490490516689072128
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:32 PM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Fire trucks and ambulances wouldn't have been able to do anything with the roads blocked.
More than 12h+ hours after the arson attempt, police, having recovered from the blue flu, finally raided the 302 Conventry site, taking away fuel cans and propane tanks, leaving trucks and bewildered would-be occupiers untouched, to whine at cameras about injustice before stumbling into the night to find warm beds.
Schadenfreude: https://mobile.twitter.com/judyatrinh/status/1490490516689072128
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:32 PM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
I really can't understand how people can be so stupid as to blow up their professional reputations around this matter.
Case in point: I'm connected to somebody via LinkedIn who is a safety professional. If you asked me to guess the guy's politics, I'd say he was likely to be a Tory (based on the specific industry he works in and a few other factors), but that's fine. I can work with people across the political spectrum, as long as everybody is being professional.
Now, I don't interact with him much these days (I've moved away from that particular industry) but I always enjoyed reading his posts. He had lots of great insights to share about keeping workers (and people in general) safe while on the job.
Over the couple of weeks, however, he has done nothing but spew right-wing conspiracy theories and repost crap from wannabe Conservative leaders, loud-mouth convoy idiots, and everybody in between.
At no point has he addressed the HUGE safety concerns about loud noises or unsecured diesel and propane storage or pollution congestion or any of the other countless safety violations these trucking idiots are creating.
I finally had to block him and off all future professional contact with him, which is a real shame because the work he did and the safety campaigns he spearheaded were important. But at this point, I would have no way of taking his judgment or his opinion seriously.
Also, why is he doing this on LinkedIn? Isn't that what Facebook is for?
posted by sardonyx at 6:35 PM on February 6, 2022 [16 favorites]
Case in point: I'm connected to somebody via LinkedIn who is a safety professional. If you asked me to guess the guy's politics, I'd say he was likely to be a Tory (based on the specific industry he works in and a few other factors), but that's fine. I can work with people across the political spectrum, as long as everybody is being professional.
Now, I don't interact with him much these days (I've moved away from that particular industry) but I always enjoyed reading his posts. He had lots of great insights to share about keeping workers (and people in general) safe while on the job.
Over the couple of weeks, however, he has done nothing but spew right-wing conspiracy theories and repost crap from wannabe Conservative leaders, loud-mouth convoy idiots, and everybody in between.
At no point has he addressed the HUGE safety concerns about loud noises or unsecured diesel and propane storage or pollution congestion or any of the other countless safety violations these trucking idiots are creating.
I finally had to block him and off all future professional contact with him, which is a real shame because the work he did and the safety campaigns he spearheaded were important. But at this point, I would have no way of taking his judgment or his opinion seriously.
Also, why is he doing this on LinkedIn? Isn't that what Facebook is for?
posted by sardonyx at 6:35 PM on February 6, 2022 [16 favorites]
Simple: they think they're gonna win.
They think they're right and are going to be receive accolades for their behaviour, not consequences. And if there are consequences, damnit, they're worth it for doing the right thing.
Honestly, the same reasoning most of us have when we cut out toxic people and stand up to shitty relatives and go to protests, etc. There is, fundamentally, the same drive running in both of us.
The big difference, of course, is that we (generally) aren't deep down some conspiracy-theory cult rabbit hole when we undertake those actions. But they believe they aren't, either.
Now, I don't know what to do about that, unfortunately, but I guess recognizing it is step one.
posted by Imperfect at 7:37 PM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
They think they're right and are going to be receive accolades for their behaviour, not consequences. And if there are consequences, damnit, they're worth it for doing the right thing.
Honestly, the same reasoning most of us have when we cut out toxic people and stand up to shitty relatives and go to protests, etc. There is, fundamentally, the same drive running in both of us.
The big difference, of course, is that we (generally) aren't deep down some conspiracy-theory cult rabbit hole when we undertake those actions. But they believe they aren't, either.
Now, I don't know what to do about that, unfortunately, but I guess recognizing it is step one.
posted by Imperfect at 7:37 PM on February 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
from the newest r/ottawa megathread:
u/VALUABLEDISCOURSE
1h
lmao the discord is tearing itself apart because one of the mods has a sensitive word warning bot and they're all screaming censorship
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:43 PM on February 6, 2022
u/VALUABLEDISCOURSE
1h
lmao the discord is tearing itself apart because one of the mods has a sensitive word warning bot and they're all screaming censorship
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:43 PM on February 6, 2022
Also, why is he doing this on LinkedIn? Isn't that what Facebook is for?
My god, so much this. I'm starting to lose track of the number of professional colleagues that I've had to ban, because they just could not stop spouting idiocy on every available channel. Like, dude, really? You've spent the last twenty five years working to improve structural stability, and you're gonna throw all of that away (including our fairly large grants) because you are so on-board with racist shitheads?
...alas, the answer is of course Yes, always Yes I Will/Must Burn Everything.
The thing that pisses me off the most is that, due to matters of industrial politics, I cannot actually confront any of these idiots. I have to just ban them quietly and remove their names from the lists of candidates.
posted by aramaic at 7:50 PM on February 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
My god, so much this. I'm starting to lose track of the number of professional colleagues that I've had to ban, because they just could not stop spouting idiocy on every available channel. Like, dude, really? You've spent the last twenty five years working to improve structural stability, and you're gonna throw all of that away (including our fairly large grants) because you are so on-board with racist shitheads?
...alas, the answer is of course Yes, always Yes I Will/Must Burn Everything.
The thing that pisses me off the most is that, due to matters of industrial politics, I cannot actually confront any of these idiots. I have to just ban them quietly and remove their names from the lists of candidates.
posted by aramaic at 7:50 PM on February 6, 2022 [5 favorites]
Judging by the terrifying stories coming from my twitter, I feel like maybe people not on the ground are underreacting. I find what's going on in Ottawa to be possibly the scariest event of the past few years, in a way eclipsing January 6.
So what I'm getting from this thread and from my twitter:
A bunch of people, mostly not truckers and if truckers the well-off kind who can afford fancy trucks of their very own, have blocked the center of the capital such that emergency services can't access large parts.
They are doing this with the complicity of the police. Average citizens are afraid to confront the truckers because they know that the police will not help them.
Members of the city government are afraid to walk around this area.
The truckers are beating and threatening people, especially women, POC and visibly queer people.
People who came with the convoy made a very serious attempt to set a residential building on fire in the middle of the city. A building full of people when fire trucks would have been delayed or unable to access the building. According to the twitter thread, people tried to burn down someone else's building too.
The government is partially complicit and partially afraid of the convoy. And yet this isn't a yellow vests situation with riots and actual fighting; the government just...doesn't want to confront them. Is the government weak or corrupt? Neither is good news.
There isn't really an exit strategy.
~~
Here in Minneapolis, there were in fact out of town nazis during the George Floyd protests. There were right-wingers shooting at people. There was a highway truck which attempted to run people down when they had blocked the highway and only by a miracle was no one killed. That was pretty milk and water stuff compared to what's happening in Ottawa, even though it was extremely scary.
~~
So what these rich white disgruntled "truckers" are taking away from the protests is that they work. The police and the government will look away while they brutalize people. This means a lot more of it and it probably means escalation.
The arson attempt was probably stupidity as much as anything if only because a massive fire where the truckers were camped out would have also been bad for them, but this kind of person is deeply, deeply stupid and that means there will be more arson attempts and god knows what else.
How long before this kind of thing turns into an actual coup attempt, and how long before it works? Remember that the cops and part of the state agree with the truckers.
The other thing: right now, people are talking about protesters on bikes who managed to turn some of the trucks in other cities. That only works if the truckers think they'll get in trouble for hitting and killing people. Right now, I bet that the cops and the city would not in fact do a goddamn thing if they ran over a raft of cyclists - and it's only a matter of time until the truckers themselves realize this.
We basically have a continent-wide army of huge fast tanks driven by stupid, malevolent rich men and we have no strategy.
We have no strategy, but a strategy will emerge. If things intensify, eventually people will get sick of being threatened and beaten and they will respond and this is completely how low level civil conflict starts.
I wish I had a suggestion about this, but the problem is that I don't have a peaceful or even violent-and-successful strategy for defeating an army of fast tanks when the fast tanks have full support of the state.
posted by Frowner at 1:57 AM on February 7, 2022 [29 favorites]
So what I'm getting from this thread and from my twitter:
A bunch of people, mostly not truckers and if truckers the well-off kind who can afford fancy trucks of their very own, have blocked the center of the capital such that emergency services can't access large parts.
They are doing this with the complicity of the police. Average citizens are afraid to confront the truckers because they know that the police will not help them.
Members of the city government are afraid to walk around this area.
The truckers are beating and threatening people, especially women, POC and visibly queer people.
People who came with the convoy made a very serious attempt to set a residential building on fire in the middle of the city. A building full of people when fire trucks would have been delayed or unable to access the building. According to the twitter thread, people tried to burn down someone else's building too.
The government is partially complicit and partially afraid of the convoy. And yet this isn't a yellow vests situation with riots and actual fighting; the government just...doesn't want to confront them. Is the government weak or corrupt? Neither is good news.
There isn't really an exit strategy.
~~
Here in Minneapolis, there were in fact out of town nazis during the George Floyd protests. There were right-wingers shooting at people. There was a highway truck which attempted to run people down when they had blocked the highway and only by a miracle was no one killed. That was pretty milk and water stuff compared to what's happening in Ottawa, even though it was extremely scary.
~~
So what these rich white disgruntled "truckers" are taking away from the protests is that they work. The police and the government will look away while they brutalize people. This means a lot more of it and it probably means escalation.
The arson attempt was probably stupidity as much as anything if only because a massive fire where the truckers were camped out would have also been bad for them, but this kind of person is deeply, deeply stupid and that means there will be more arson attempts and god knows what else.
How long before this kind of thing turns into an actual coup attempt, and how long before it works? Remember that the cops and part of the state agree with the truckers.
The other thing: right now, people are talking about protesters on bikes who managed to turn some of the trucks in other cities. That only works if the truckers think they'll get in trouble for hitting and killing people. Right now, I bet that the cops and the city would not in fact do a goddamn thing if they ran over a raft of cyclists - and it's only a matter of time until the truckers themselves realize this.
We basically have a continent-wide army of huge fast tanks driven by stupid, malevolent rich men and we have no strategy.
We have no strategy, but a strategy will emerge. If things intensify, eventually people will get sick of being threatened and beaten and they will respond and this is completely how low level civil conflict starts.
I wish I had a suggestion about this, but the problem is that I don't have a peaceful or even violent-and-successful strategy for defeating an army of fast tanks when the fast tanks have full support of the state.
posted by Frowner at 1:57 AM on February 7, 2022 [29 favorites]
i don't know the city government in ottawa well, but i assume it's somewhat left-leaning - i think the real question that arises from this is how do we make sure our police officers do not undermine the political views that we elect their bosses to uphold - the simple fact of the matter is that radical right wing demonstrators are getting a break where left wingers would be persecuted
no matter who we elect, we end up with near-fascists policing us - something needs to be done about this
posted by pyramid termite at 2:55 AM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
no matter who we elect, we end up with near-fascists policing us - something needs to be done about this
posted by pyramid termite at 2:55 AM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
> but a strategy will emerge
Roadblocks and inspections outside the city, and deploying a fuckload of those portable anti vehicle barriers in the downtown would do it, if your cops are willing to enforce laws that day.
Quebec City, Montreal, and Toronto were able to do it, although they had one hundredth? the number of trucks to deal with.
> the government just...doesn't want to confront them. Is the government weak or corrupt?
Sloly was appointed to sort out some racists.
I think Sloly and Watson discovered his cops had decided to take the week off, but Sloly wasn't willing to call in the 1500 rcmps / opp Ford pointed out he had available.
Either moral cowardice, or Sloly is an antivaxxer/right wing authoritarian co-aligned with his cops .
Or he was presented with an outside context problem, his brain locked up "we can't block roads like we do every Canada Day, that would violate the charter rights of these people I've heard about in anti-extremist briefings since I was a beat cop" and decided to let the children/neo nazis tire themselves out for a week, then swoop in.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:54 AM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Roadblocks and inspections outside the city, and deploying a fuckload of those portable anti vehicle barriers in the downtown would do it, if your cops are willing to enforce laws that day.
Quebec City, Montreal, and Toronto were able to do it, although they had one hundredth? the number of trucks to deal with.
> the government just...doesn't want to confront them. Is the government weak or corrupt?
Sloly was appointed to sort out some racists.
I think Sloly and Watson discovered his cops had decided to take the week off, but Sloly wasn't willing to call in the 1500 rcmps / opp Ford pointed out he had available.
Either moral cowardice, or Sloly is an antivaxxer/right wing authoritarian co-aligned with his cops .
Or he was presented with an outside context problem, his brain locked up "we can't block roads like we do every Canada Day, that would violate the charter rights of these people I've heard about in anti-extremist briefings since I was a beat cop" and decided to let the children/neo nazis tire themselves out for a week, then swoop in.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:54 AM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
But it was surprising to see Sloly try a policing solution after claiming this was a societal problem "like covid", as per the police board meeting, which would not admit to a policing solution.
Maybe his cops realized they'd lose their fucking pensions if a mass arson attempt was successful.
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:01 AM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Maybe his cops realized they'd lose their fucking pensions if a mass arson attempt was successful.
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:01 AM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
→
More people in Canada are killed by being hit with commercial vehicles than with bullets*.
I'm hoping that this will see restrictions on large vehicles in the core of Canadian cities. It always amazes me to see a full-sized truck and trailer unloading downtown just to stock a Tim Hortons.
---
*: sources: a) Canadian Motor Vehicle Traffic Collision Statistics: 2019, table "Fatalities In Commercial Vehicle Collisions by User Type - 2015 to 2019" (Transport Canada) - sum of rows for Pedestrians, Bicyclists, Motorcyclists and Passenger Vehicles / Other: data for 2015 to 2019 - 346, 317, 334, 283, 306; b) Statistics Canada. Table 35-10-0170-01 Number and percentage of homicide victims, by type of firearm used to commit the homicide, "Total firearms" number: data for 2015 to 2019: 180, 223, 267, 251, 262.
posted by scruss at 5:27 AM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
We basically have a continent-wide army of huge fast tanks driven by stupid, malevolent rich men and we have no strategy.
More people in Canada are killed by being hit with commercial vehicles than with bullets*.
I'm hoping that this will see restrictions on large vehicles in the core of Canadian cities. It always amazes me to see a full-sized truck and trailer unloading downtown just to stock a Tim Hortons.
---
*: sources: a) Canadian Motor Vehicle Traffic Collision Statistics: 2019, table "Fatalities In Commercial Vehicle Collisions by User Type - 2015 to 2019" (Transport Canada) - sum of rows for Pedestrians, Bicyclists, Motorcyclists and Passenger Vehicles / Other: data for 2015 to 2019 - 346, 317, 334, 283, 306; b) Statistics Canada. Table 35-10-0170-01 Number and percentage of homicide victims, by type of firearm used to commit the homicide, "Total firearms" number: data for 2015 to 2019: 180, 223, 267, 251, 262.
posted by scruss at 5:27 AM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
>I'm hoping that this will see restrictions on large vehicles in the core of Canadian cities. It always amazes me to see a full-sized truck and trailer unloading downtown just to stock a Tim Hortons.
I'd like that, but I don't think politicians could overcome the pushback from the just-in-time, rolling-warehouse crowd, because of capitalism.
I do think we'll see some anti-hate legislation.
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:31 AM on February 7, 2022
I'd like that, but I don't think politicians could overcome the pushback from the just-in-time, rolling-warehouse crowd, because of capitalism.
I do think we'll see some anti-hate legislation.
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:31 AM on February 7, 2022
Scruss, I'd be curious to know if the numbers change if you include suicide by gun [in addition to homicide].
posted by clawsoon at 5:32 AM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 5:32 AM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
The other thing my twitter alleges is that a lot of the funding for the convoy is from the right wing in the US.
You've got to wonder exactly how much harm the far right funds internationally (using private funds; let's overlook, for the moment, government initiatives). Mumsnet/TERFs get money from US evangelicals who also fund anti-gay legislation in Africa. The far right is funneling money to the convoy. Where else is this money going?
Our inability to tax the wealthy means they have huge amounts of money to manipulate the politics of other nations. This is not only bad on the face of it but means that there must be many, many employees of all these foundations who are coming to see themselves as government types.
~~
When you have all these situations (Chicago, New York, Minneapolis and now presumably Ottawa) where a formally non-conservative city government basically can't act because they can't control their police, what is that? God knows the mayor of Minneapolis is bad in himself, for instance, but the real fact is that even if he wanted to he could not stop our kill-crazy police because they don't answer to him anymore. Same in New York, as the dear departed Whelk was always pointing out.
posted by Frowner at 6:15 AM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
You've got to wonder exactly how much harm the far right funds internationally (using private funds; let's overlook, for the moment, government initiatives). Mumsnet/TERFs get money from US evangelicals who also fund anti-gay legislation in Africa. The far right is funneling money to the convoy. Where else is this money going?
Our inability to tax the wealthy means they have huge amounts of money to manipulate the politics of other nations. This is not only bad on the face of it but means that there must be many, many employees of all these foundations who are coming to see themselves as government types.
~~
When you have all these situations (Chicago, New York, Minneapolis and now presumably Ottawa) where a formally non-conservative city government basically can't act because they can't control their police, what is that? God knows the mayor of Minneapolis is bad in himself, for instance, but the real fact is that even if he wanted to he could not stop our kill-crazy police because they don't answer to him anymore. Same in New York, as the dear departed Whelk was always pointing out.
posted by Frowner at 6:15 AM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
I'm not usually a big conspiracy theory person but it does feel like this was a test of some international tactics to disrupt things, hooking up with our own homegrown racists both still here and those we have exported worldwide. Plenty of those to go around. Just like a global pandemic and the rise of Russia as an agent of voter manipulation via Facebook, things never look like what you think they will.
But at least everyone learns from it, not just the wingnuts. I was prepared to counter-protest in Toronto on Sunday but it seemed relatively under control and I let pandemic fatigue take over. It puts policing in another spotlight and I think it's good to understand what's what.
Frankly, in Toronto, it probably helps that the protest was being held at Avenue Rd. and Bloor, shopping grounds of the superrich. I was worried they'd just flee to their other homes. I can't speak to Ottawa's municipal situation but if the people I know in Ottawa are any indication overall, they might be slow to boil over but they can project manage the shit out of following up.
The financial end is really interesting. I don't know that other countries understand how unusual that amount of money was for a Canadian political action and I think it kind of set off flags even among us ordinary people, never mind actual analysts. I'd call for a Royal Commission but it's probably in line behind 23423452 other priorities.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:29 AM on February 7, 2022 [8 favorites]
But at least everyone learns from it, not just the wingnuts. I was prepared to counter-protest in Toronto on Sunday but it seemed relatively under control and I let pandemic fatigue take over. It puts policing in another spotlight and I think it's good to understand what's what.
Frankly, in Toronto, it probably helps that the protest was being held at Avenue Rd. and Bloor, shopping grounds of the superrich. I was worried they'd just flee to their other homes. I can't speak to Ottawa's municipal situation but if the people I know in Ottawa are any indication overall, they might be slow to boil over but they can project manage the shit out of following up.
The financial end is really interesting. I don't know that other countries understand how unusual that amount of money was for a Canadian political action and I think it kind of set off flags even among us ordinary people, never mind actual analysts. I'd call for a Royal Commission but it's probably in line behind 23423452 other priorities.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:29 AM on February 7, 2022 [8 favorites]
Frankly, in Toronto, it probably helps that the protest was being held at Avenue Rd. and Bloor, shopping grounds of the superrich.
I got the feeling that Bloor and Avenue being kind of a nowhere place in political terms made a difference, too. They really wanted to get to Queen's Park, but the police blocked it off. They got very rapid blowback for blocking hospitals south of Queen's Park. So a couple of blocks north of Queen's Park was left as the closest they could get, and it's kind of nothing in symbolic terms. (Unless you're against museums, I guess?)
And Ottawa was close enough, much more symbolic, much more likely to succeed, and much more fun. Might as well just head that way.
posted by clawsoon at 7:08 AM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
I got the feeling that Bloor and Avenue being kind of a nowhere place in political terms made a difference, too. They really wanted to get to Queen's Park, but the police blocked it off. They got very rapid blowback for blocking hospitals south of Queen's Park. So a couple of blocks north of Queen's Park was left as the closest they could get, and it's kind of nothing in symbolic terms. (Unless you're against museums, I guess?)
And Ottawa was close enough, much more symbolic, much more likely to succeed, and much more fun. Might as well just head that way.
posted by clawsoon at 7:08 AM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
My deepest sympathies with the people of Ottawa—this seems like a horrible situation.
I'm concerned, too, that the action at Ottawa will be used as a template for something similar in Washington DC.
Via twitter: "Do we have a date? I'm in southern Maryland and def want to help. My concern is that DC gets so congested, not going to be easy to bring supplies in once it starts."
Twitter link
posted by newdaddy at 7:23 AM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm concerned, too, that the action at Ottawa will be used as a template for something similar in Washington DC.
Via twitter: "Do we have a date? I'm in southern Maryland and def want to help. My concern is that DC gets so congested, not going to be easy to bring supplies in once it starts."
Twitter link
posted by newdaddy at 7:23 AM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
Members of the city government are afraid to walk around this area.
The truckers are beating and threatening people, especially women, POC and visibly queer people.
And yet one person who IS walking around the area, trying to get individual protesters to stop blowing their horns, lest they be included in a class action suit being filed by residents of the area, is my ward's trans/non-binary councillor Catherine McKenney (who is an amazing human and also running for mayor). I am so worried for their safety.
i don't know the city government in ottawa well, but i assume it's somewhat left-leaning
Ish, but not really. The mayor used to be an Ontario Liberal (centre-left leaning for Canada) but over his terms as mayor (this is his third) he has steadily gone further right and this is coupled with this being an amalgamated city, which gives suburban and ex-urban wards the balance of the power in the council chamber and the mayor does everything he can to shut down dissent and kneecap the urban councillors. They're good on things like LGBTQ2S+ rights but crap on socio-economic/socio-political stuff like police force defunding/dismantling. There will be no reckoning. My councillor (who I talk about above) is running for mayor but the chances that they get elected are pretty low because of the amalgamation, so we'll probably end up with another centrist business dud(e) and more police budget increases, which is how the Ontario PC Party/Mike Harris designed it when he amalgamated Ottawa and Toronto.
posted by urbanlenny at 7:34 AM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
The truckers are beating and threatening people, especially women, POC and visibly queer people.
And yet one person who IS walking around the area, trying to get individual protesters to stop blowing their horns, lest they be included in a class action suit being filed by residents of the area, is my ward's trans/non-binary councillor Catherine McKenney (who is an amazing human and also running for mayor). I am so worried for their safety.
i don't know the city government in ottawa well, but i assume it's somewhat left-leaning
Ish, but not really. The mayor used to be an Ontario Liberal (centre-left leaning for Canada) but over his terms as mayor (this is his third) he has steadily gone further right and this is coupled with this being an amalgamated city, which gives suburban and ex-urban wards the balance of the power in the council chamber and the mayor does everything he can to shut down dissent and kneecap the urban councillors. They're good on things like LGBTQ2S+ rights but crap on socio-economic/socio-political stuff like police force defunding/dismantling. There will be no reckoning. My councillor (who I talk about above) is running for mayor but the chances that they get elected are pretty low because of the amalgamation, so we'll probably end up with another centrist business dud(e) and more police budget increases, which is how the Ontario PC Party/Mike Harris designed it when he amalgamated Ottawa and Toronto.
posted by urbanlenny at 7:34 AM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
I happened to be in Victoria (British Columbia's capital) yesterday, a very nice day. While taking the dog for a walk around the legislature buildings, we came across the local version of the Freedom Truckers (or whatever they're calling themselves).
A. there weren't many trucks, no big ones at all, mostly just people in their cars and SUVs, all equipped with horns unfortunately. And there weren't even that many of them. Less than twenty lined up along the curb (only blocking one lane of traffic) with various sympathizers honking as they drove past, joining the symphony.
B. there really weren't that many people at all, less than a hundred in various clumps across the grounds of the legislature and who knows if they were all even supporters? I certainly wasn't the only one walking a nice little dog.
C. they also had a PA system set up on the legislature steps, running off a generator, playing really lame modern mid-tempo pop music. It was loud and only really served to keep people away. Every now and then, someone would step up to the mike and say, "Hey let's gather closer. Some people here have some important things to say about our freedom." And then the music would come back on ... and nobody would move any closer.
All in all it wasn't that out of the normal for a Sunday on the legislature grounds. A protest, a few placards. The only things out of the normal were the minor attempt to disrupt traffic and the f***ing noise. Which got me thinking about something I heard Noam Chomsky say a long time ago about what made for a good anarchist. "An anarchist is a good neighbour. He's there when you need him, invisible when you don't."
These freedom fighters were terrible neighbours. Fuck 'em.
posted by philip-random at 8:11 AM on February 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
A. there weren't many trucks, no big ones at all, mostly just people in their cars and SUVs, all equipped with horns unfortunately. And there weren't even that many of them. Less than twenty lined up along the curb (only blocking one lane of traffic) with various sympathizers honking as they drove past, joining the symphony.
B. there really weren't that many people at all, less than a hundred in various clumps across the grounds of the legislature and who knows if they were all even supporters? I certainly wasn't the only one walking a nice little dog.
C. they also had a PA system set up on the legislature steps, running off a generator, playing really lame modern mid-tempo pop music. It was loud and only really served to keep people away. Every now and then, someone would step up to the mike and say, "Hey let's gather closer. Some people here have some important things to say about our freedom." And then the music would come back on ... and nobody would move any closer.
All in all it wasn't that out of the normal for a Sunday on the legislature grounds. A protest, a few placards. The only things out of the normal were the minor attempt to disrupt traffic and the f***ing noise. Which got me thinking about something I heard Noam Chomsky say a long time ago about what made for a good anarchist. "An anarchist is a good neighbour. He's there when you need him, invisible when you don't."
These freedom fighters were terrible neighbours. Fuck 'em.
posted by philip-random at 8:11 AM on February 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
Kurt Phillips, founder and former lead writer of Anti-Racists Canada, and board member of Antihate.ca, has been posting daily threads of collated information on the events of each day of the anti-vax occupation of Ottawa, complete with receipts (i.e., news items, photos, videos, screencaps), as well as links to background information on the known previous misogynist, racist/white supremacist, and lawless behaviour of some of the participants. They are a good overview of the Ottawa occupation. Here are the links:
-- Day 1
-- Day 2
-- Day 3
-- Day 4
-- Day 5
-- Day 6
-- Day 7
-- Day 8
-- Day 9
-- Day 10
posted by orange swan at 9:05 AM on February 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
-- Day 1
-- Day 2
-- Day 3
-- Day 4
-- Day 5
-- Day 6
-- Day 7
-- Day 8
-- Day 9
-- Day 10
posted by orange swan at 9:05 AM on February 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
Crawford Kilian, writing for The Tyee on "Where the Convoy is Trying to Drive Canada":
"Our governments seem to have made a disastrous misjudgment — that the truckers and their supporters are an angry spasm to be endured until their energy can be cooled out and co-opted through politicking as usual. The convoy should be seen instead as a test run for more institution destabilizing efforts, increasingly well-funded and well-organized by those who seek to transform Canada."
"Where the truckers and their supporters are violating laws, they should be promptly arrested. Such arrests, continued as long as needed, would show Canada and the world that we’re serious about peace, order and good government — and public health as well."
posted by orange swan at 9:08 AM on February 7, 2022 [15 favorites]
"Our governments seem to have made a disastrous misjudgment — that the truckers and their supporters are an angry spasm to be endured until their energy can be cooled out and co-opted through politicking as usual. The convoy should be seen instead as a test run for more institution destabilizing efforts, increasingly well-funded and well-organized by those who seek to transform Canada."
"Where the truckers and their supporters are violating laws, they should be promptly arrested. Such arrests, continued as long as needed, would show Canada and the world that we’re serious about peace, order and good government — and public health as well."
posted by orange swan at 9:08 AM on February 7, 2022 [15 favorites]
Tired of doing your own research?
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:11 AM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:11 AM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
It seems inevitable that people will try this in the US. I'm interested in ideas about how to thwart it. Especially ideas that we can start preparing before it happens.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:31 AM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:31 AM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
I imagine every police force is about to order more portable steel vehicle barriers. I think I saw my first one here in Ottawa after the right-wing vehicular killing in Toronto, The driver targeted pedestrians, killing 11 and injuring 15, some critically.
I feel as though American police will send a militarized SWAT team, probably with ex-DOD light tactical vehicles , to break up a bake sale. And crucially, mayors and police chiefs do not wait more than a fucking week to declare a state of emergency, but rather, are downright eager to call in each state's national guard.
Here in Ottawa, we were not even throwing eggs, but I imagine civilian firearm ownership would play in as well.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:01 AM on February 7, 2022
I feel as though American police will send a militarized SWAT team, probably with ex-DOD light tactical vehicles , to break up a bake sale. And crucially, mayors and police chiefs do not wait more than a fucking week to declare a state of emergency, but rather, are downright eager to call in each state's national guard.
Here in Ottawa, we were not even throwing eggs, but I imagine civilian firearm ownership would play in as well.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:01 AM on February 7, 2022
I sounded a little hysterical during a family video chat yesterday, I just can't believe how quickly this got so bad and I live in Alberta. My brother in Ottawa seems fairly unconcerned about this.. I mean, to the extent he had more to say about my nieces' hockey schedules and honestly.. if you are an Ottawan and this past week doesn't have you frothing at the mouth angry I don't know what to say.
I am keeping my eyes and thoughts open to meaningful opportunities to demonstrate how utterly I am opposed to this. We need numbers to show: this is not okay, and we are prepared to fight this.
posted by elkevelvet at 10:04 AM on February 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
I am keeping my eyes and thoughts open to meaningful opportunities to demonstrate how utterly I am opposed to this. We need numbers to show: this is not okay, and we are prepared to fight this.
posted by elkevelvet at 10:04 AM on February 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
Vancouver Mayor, Kennedy Stewart had this to say last Friday on On the Coast with Gloria Macarenko:
posted by house-goblin at 10:51 AM on February 7, 2022 [32 favorites]
Kennedy Stewart: "I think it's a hate convoy. I think these people are coming to our city, that's 95% vaccinated, and they're spreading hate. They're bringing their swastikas and confederate flags. They're trying to intimidate health workers. They're trying to intimidate our very diverse population. And I'm telling ya, they should just make their point and just get out of here. We don't want them here. We're all tired from this pandemic. Everybody here in our city has been pulling together to get through this and these folks are disruptive and full of hate and they have no place in Vancouver."More at: Vancouver, Victoria mayors on local Freedom Convoys
...
Gloria Macarenko: "...Do you worry about painting everyone with the same brush?"
Kennedy Stewart: "No, in fact that's exactly what I want to do. I think if you hang out with these type of people, if you're standing beside somebody who's waving a swastika or confederate flag, or yelling hate, that's who you are too."
posted by house-goblin at 10:51 AM on February 7, 2022 [32 favorites]
I almost can't believe that a mayor of a major city just came out and said what I've been feeling for so long
I am not used to this feeling.. Never really paid attention to whoever sits as Mayor of Vancouver but today.. Kennedy Stewart gets the standing O from this Albertan
posted by elkevelvet at 11:11 AM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
I am not used to this feeling.. Never really paid attention to whoever sits as Mayor of Vancouver but today.. Kennedy Stewart gets the standing O from this Albertan
posted by elkevelvet at 11:11 AM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
and trust me, Mr. Stewart is hardly a radical. In fact, he tends to get nothing but dismissal and condemnation from my "friends'" on the more active left. Not for these particular comments, but for his more day to day failings at bringing on the revolution (or whatever).
posted by philip-random at 11:51 AM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 11:51 AM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
knowing nothing more about Stewart, that statement on the convoy is just a.. beacon.. I hope we get a little emboldening of the good kind, people stepping forward and finally calling it for what it is.
posted by elkevelvet at 11:59 AM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 11:59 AM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
I just thought of something... can you imagine those protests in Toronto if Rob Ford was mayor???
posted by WaterAndPixels at 12:54 PM on February 7, 2022
posted by WaterAndPixels at 12:54 PM on February 7, 2022
I keep seeing reference to a tweet that OPS made and then deleted. Anybody know where a screenshot can be found? Something about cooperating with the convoy?
posted by clawsoon at 1:14 PM on February 7, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 1:14 PM on February 7, 2022
Ouch, that's a disheartening counter-factual.
Better, I think, to imagine the 1941 versions of the protests:
Fighting Nazis hasn't worked, let's just give in to them.
Shortages and rationing are tyranny, let's surrender to the Nazis and get our freedom back.
The war economy is communism! Surrender to the Nazis.
We did the research, the Nazis hardly kill anybody.
Etc etc, ad nauseum
posted by house-goblin at 1:15 PM on February 7, 2022 [10 favorites]
Better, I think, to imagine the 1941 versions of the protests:
Fighting Nazis hasn't worked, let's just give in to them.
Shortages and rationing are tyranny, let's surrender to the Nazis and get our freedom back.
The war economy is communism! Surrender to the Nazis.
We did the research, the Nazis hardly kill anybody.
Etc etc, ad nauseum
posted by house-goblin at 1:15 PM on February 7, 2022 [10 favorites]
CBC: Removing trucks could be almost 'impossible,' say heavy towing experts.
Let me repeat myself: Chinooks with electromagnets, Ottawa! You have the flight hardware -- think outside the box, and use it! Done correctly, nobody (nor their property) would be harmed. But the next time, drivers will be armed with blinding lasers, like demonstrators in Hong Kong.
posted by Rash at 1:24 PM on February 7, 2022
Let me repeat myself: Chinooks with electromagnets, Ottawa! You have the flight hardware -- think outside the box, and use it! Done correctly, nobody (nor their property) would be harmed. But the next time, drivers will be armed with blinding lasers, like demonstrators in Hong Kong.
posted by Rash at 1:24 PM on February 7, 2022
How about cutting torches and portable car crushers?
posted by house-goblin at 1:30 PM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by house-goblin at 1:30 PM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
Let me repeat myself: Chinooks with electromagnets, Ottawa!
The back of my envelope suggests you're asking for either a farce or a disaster. I'm no expert, though.
posted by clawsoon at 1:31 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
The back of my envelope suggests you're asking for either a farce or a disaster. I'm no expert, though.
posted by clawsoon at 1:31 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
I've been thinking about the 2011 Stanley Cup riot in Vancouver. Everybody expected it; the media had been playing up the possibility for a week or more; people showed up specifically intending to riot. Yet the cops were totally unprepared. They let a huge crowd gather downtown, getting drunk and riled up, with minimal police presence, and then had to scramble to get their riot troops and equipment into place once the violence inevitably broke out.
I've also been remembering the Occupy Vancouver encampment later that year, which took over a public space downtown and was allowed to stay there for a month. As I recall, the police response was relatively hands-off (of course Occupy was way less disruptive and hateful and not populated by fascists). Finally a woman OD'd in one of the tents, and that became the excuse to break it up.
Basically the police response in Ottawa feels kind of familiar: the over-optimistic expectations, the lack of a backup plan, the reluctance to act once the protesters became entrenched. I can't wait for the part where they commission a report that whitewashes the whole affair.
posted by Gerald Bostock at 1:52 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
I've also been remembering the Occupy Vancouver encampment later that year, which took over a public space downtown and was allowed to stay there for a month. As I recall, the police response was relatively hands-off (of course Occupy was way less disruptive and hateful and not populated by fascists). Finally a woman OD'd in one of the tents, and that became the excuse to break it up.
Basically the police response in Ottawa feels kind of familiar: the over-optimistic expectations, the lack of a backup plan, the reluctance to act once the protesters became entrenched. I can't wait for the part where they commission a report that whitewashes the whole affair.
posted by Gerald Bostock at 1:52 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
I imagine those large long-reach jawed demolition machines they use to tear down buildings would be quite adept at picking up and crushing trucks.
posted by fimbulvetr at 1:55 PM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by fimbulvetr at 1:55 PM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
Alpha Flight has Sasquatch on call. Surely he could do some truck-moving.
posted by delfin at 2:20 PM on February 7, 2022
posted by delfin at 2:20 PM on February 7, 2022
Nominally because the truck have dumped their air brakes and the drivers plan to intimidate tow drivers who would attempt to air them back up. Which means, once again, the fricken scaredycat, protest sympathizing RCMP just has to get down there and pretend it is a Native blockade. And if they won't keep firing the bastards until you find a detachment that will.
Even if they can't get the trucks aired back up you can just winch them onto a drop deck trailer. I mean it's not like our highways are littered with highway tractors that were in accidents and couldn't be removed.
Beside if nothing else myself and a couple buddies cut up a bus with a gas axe and had it haulled off to the scrap yard in less than a week. I'd bet any of those drivers would be a lot more cooperative if that was the other option.
posted by Mitheral at 2:21 PM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
Even if they can't get the trucks aired back up you can just winch them onto a drop deck trailer. I mean it's not like our highways are littered with highway tractors that were in accidents and couldn't be removed.
Beside if nothing else myself and a couple buddies cut up a bus with a gas axe and had it haulled off to the scrap yard in less than a week. I'd bet any of those drivers would be a lot more cooperative if that was the other option.
posted by Mitheral at 2:21 PM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
According to Google, the Chinook has a 26,000 pound lift capacity. And a semi pulling an empty trailer weighs roughly 35,000 pounds.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 2:34 PM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by escape from the potato planet at 2:34 PM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
But what’s the airspeed velocity of an unladen Chinook?
posted by saturday_morning at 2:42 PM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 2:42 PM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
But what’s the airspeed velocity of an unladen Chinook?
African or European?
posted by No Robots at 2:44 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
African or European?
posted by No Robots at 2:44 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Canadian police make arrests, seize fuel (WaPo)
Ottawa police said they have launched 60 criminal investigations, issued hundreds of tickets, towed vehicles and made at least 20 arrests since Friday. They warned that anyone found to be supplying trucks with fuel could face charges. Local media on Monday still documented people carrying jerrycans of fuel to blockading vehicles.posted by box at 3:28 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Local media on Monday still documented people carrying jerrycans of fuel to blockading vehicles.
Chatter on Reddit with pictures of 20-30 people carrying full jerry cans past the police is that the police are shrugging and saying "could be water."
posted by clawsoon at 3:32 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Chatter on Reddit with pictures of 20-30 people carrying full jerry cans past the police is that the police are shrugging and saying "could be water."
posted by clawsoon at 3:32 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Nominally because the truck have dumped their air brakes and the drivers plan to intimidate tow drivers
Once you've arrested the driver, the honking immediately stops and you have all day to remove the obstruction at your leisure, without intimidation.
Oh, right. We can't arrest the drivers, for some reason.
posted by ctmf at 4:05 PM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
Once you've arrested the driver, the honking immediately stops and you have all day to remove the obstruction at your leisure, without intimidation.
Oh, right. We can't arrest the drivers, for some reason.
posted by ctmf at 4:05 PM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
The deleted tweet from OPS, from the Ottawa subreddit.
Not clear who published it or why, but it seems stunningly tone deaf. Speculation is that it was the product of a PR firm contracted by a protester group, then reposted by the police in solidarity? Perhaps as a marker of some agreement made during the Confederation Square cleanup? The "local host nation" might imply the involvement of FNs?
Reads like an "apology" note from a domestic abuser to me frankly.
posted by bonehead at 4:21 PM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Not clear who published it or why, but it seems stunningly tone deaf. Speculation is that it was the product of a PR firm contracted by a protester group, then reposted by the police in solidarity? Perhaps as a marker of some agreement made during the Confederation Square cleanup? The "local host nation" might imply the involvement of FNs?
Reads like an "apology" note from a domestic abuser to me frankly.
posted by bonehead at 4:21 PM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
My favourite solutions so far:
- A 40t crane with a bunch of float trailers. There are a bunch in town for moving construction equipment that can't move on pavement. Even better they're often owned by companies that owe a large amount of their income to the city or province for roadworks. And they're not really being used right now.
- Trenton and Petawawa have a bunch of armor "wreckers", tow trucks for tanks. They can handle 120-ton tracked vehicles apparently. Most semi's are 25-t or less. There are well established methods for calling in the military to aid civilian authorities during things like floods and the like. Don't use the military as riot control (which isn't great in Canada); clear out the protesters and use them for disaster cleanup. That's a lot less politically radioactive.
posted by bonehead at 4:28 PM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
- A 40t crane with a bunch of float trailers. There are a bunch in town for moving construction equipment that can't move on pavement. Even better they're often owned by companies that owe a large amount of their income to the city or province for roadworks. And they're not really being used right now.
- Trenton and Petawawa have a bunch of armor "wreckers", tow trucks for tanks. They can handle 120-ton tracked vehicles apparently. Most semi's are 25-t or less. There are well established methods for calling in the military to aid civilian authorities during things like floods and the like. Don't use the military as riot control (which isn't great in Canada); clear out the protesters and use them for disaster cleanup. That's a lot less politically radioactive.
posted by bonehead at 4:28 PM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
Steven Del Duca (Ontario Liberal leader, in case you've already forgotten multiple times like I have) is going with leave now or lose your truck.
posted by clawsoon at 4:45 PM on February 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 4:45 PM on February 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
Some anti-anti-vax fun courtesy of Andre Antunes and Mexican newscaster Leonardo Schwebel.
posted by clawsoon at 5:25 PM on February 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 5:25 PM on February 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
Heh, that rocks, Clawsoon!
posted by storybored at 5:37 PM on February 7, 2022
posted by storybored at 5:37 PM on February 7, 2022
Steven Del Duca (Ontario Liberal leader, in case you've already forgotten multiple times like I have)
Ah right. That guy.
The love child of Rocco Rossi and Heston Blumenthal?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:19 PM on February 7, 2022
Ah right. That guy.
The love child of Rocco Rossi and Heston Blumenthal?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:19 PM on February 7, 2022
Two suggestions I've seen on Twitter about the threat that drivers could just apply the airbrakes and lock the truck doors, keeping the keys.
1: Call in some locksmiths to cut new keys based on the vehicle's VIN, OR
2: Cage the brake chambers (YT video, 3 minutes) -- but OTOH, as I've seen some people threaten, if the truckers remove that bolt, this technique won't work?
I know nothing about trucks or cars, so I don't know if these suggestions are at least technically plausible, or complete bullshit. (Obvious operational issues arise even if either solution is a tech fix, because the fucking cops are either complicit or scared of those fuckers.)
posted by maudlin at 6:34 PM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
1: Call in some locksmiths to cut new keys based on the vehicle's VIN, OR
2: Cage the brake chambers (YT video, 3 minutes) -- but OTOH, as I've seen some people threaten, if the truckers remove that bolt, this technique won't work?
I know nothing about trucks or cars, so I don't know if these suggestions are at least technically plausible, or complete bullshit. (Obvious operational issues arise even if either solution is a tech fix, because the fucking cops are either complicit or scared of those fuckers.)
posted by maudlin at 6:34 PM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Follow-up on that bizarre OPS tweet from CTV. It was legitimate, not a hack. Chief Sloly was asked about it during the council session today. It came down very soon after he returned to the office.
posted by bonehead at 6:41 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 6:41 PM on February 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Odds on that tweet being a piece of Navigator agitprop?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:45 PM on February 7, 2022
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:45 PM on February 7, 2022
The trouble with the whole "leave or lose your truck" idea is that they were encouraged to buy old trucks, destined for the junk yard for the convoy.
What's the price of scrap metal these days? Could that be an option?
posted by peppermind at 6:57 PM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
What's the price of scrap metal these days? Could that be an option?
posted by peppermind at 6:57 PM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
"Just spoke with OPP officer who said he couldn’t express his views on the convoy/occupation because he’s in uniform, but that Justin Trudeau should “stop lying.”
"He advises the city if he sees jerrycans, but says it’s not his job to enforce."
posted by clawsoon at 7:11 PM on February 7, 2022 [7 favorites]
"He advises the city if he sees jerrycans, but says it’s not his job to enforce."
posted by clawsoon at 7:11 PM on February 7, 2022 [7 favorites]
Protesters block traffic in both directions on Ambassador Bridge linking Detroit to Windsor
Hm. I dunno if they know what happens to people who trifle with a cash cow belonging to the Moroun family.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:33 PM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
Hm. I dunno if they know what happens to people who trifle with a cash cow belonging to the Moroun family.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:33 PM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
Back in 1859 the Toronto police force were fired en masse for political violence, religious violence, and, with firefighters, assaulting a circus.
1, 2
I'm completely ok with replacing OPS with mounties once this is over.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:45 PM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
1, 2
I'm completely ok with replacing OPS with mounties once this is over.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:45 PM on February 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
While cycling to work today, along an industrial road, a pickup passed me in the opposite direction flying the Canadian flag and a second flag with "TRU---" on it. Not sure if it said Trump, or Trudeau, but I sure didn't stick around to find out. Drivers of pickups usually aren't kind to cyclists anyway, and I think that goes double for this particular driver.
I dunno if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the Vancouver police department made five arrests over the weekend, one for kicking cars??
posted by invokeuse at 9:52 PM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
I dunno if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the Vancouver police department made five arrests over the weekend, one for kicking cars??
posted by invokeuse at 9:52 PM on February 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Back in 1859 the Toronto police force were fired en masse for political violence, religious violence, and, with firefighters, assaulting a circus.
posted by clawsoon at 10:23 PM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
An inquest was launched, and in the end, the whole old system was overthrown. Every single police officer in the city was fired and a new force was created from scratch.It can be done...
posted by clawsoon at 10:23 PM on February 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
Leave now or lose your trucking license? Just an idea.
posted by UN at 11:23 PM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by UN at 11:23 PM on February 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
If ottawa tow truck drivers are in collision with the occupiers, it's only fair to let Toronto and Montréal in on the action. "You tow it, you keep it."
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:49 PM on February 7, 2022
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:49 PM on February 7, 2022
I have zero sympathy for these assclowns, but what's the legal justification for seizing fuel? Is the right for the police to seize property granted by the state of emergency or something?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 3:56 AM on February 8, 2022
posted by escape from the potato planet at 3:56 AM on February 8, 2022
I believe the fuel is being seized Because they are providing material support to illegal activities.
posted by fimbulvetr at 5:04 AM on February 8, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 5:04 AM on February 8, 2022 [8 favorites]
Seems to me like a more effective way to deal with illegal activities than seizing material support for the illegal activities would be to arrest and charge the people who are doing the illegal activities. But what do I know.
posted by saturday_morning at 5:18 AM on February 8, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 5:18 AM on February 8, 2022 [11 favorites]
You would think so. Not like police don’t have experience at kettling and mass arrests. Standing around, wringing their hands that it is impossible to do anything is just making things worse.
posted by fimbulvetr at 5:43 AM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 5:43 AM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
Leave now or lose your trucking license?
That's a provincial thing. I can't see a world where Doug Ford might do that to help the feds.
posted by bonehead at 6:00 AM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
That's a provincial thing. I can't see a world where Doug Ford might do that to help the feds.
posted by bonehead at 6:00 AM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
The charge they seem to be using for the fuel-carriers is mischief. I think they're actually using the indictable version too, which can result in jail time.
posted by bonehead at 6:01 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 6:01 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm told the Canadian side of the Ambassador Bridge between Windsor and Detroit is shut down.
posted by box at 6:11 AM on February 8, 2022
posted by box at 6:11 AM on February 8, 2022
Given the amount of funding and support coming from the USA, the occupiers have become unwitting, and probably in many cases willing, Fifth Columnists for the American extreme right. They are a threat to our democracy and our sovereignty.
The other difficulty with pulling trucking licenses is that you would have to get every province on board with it. These guys aren't just from Ontario. Ford might be convinced eventually as this is in his backyard, but could you imagine Kenny or Moe agreeing to that tactic?
posted by fimbulvetr at 6:46 AM on February 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
The other difficulty with pulling trucking licenses is that you would have to get every province on board with it. These guys aren't just from Ontario. Ford might be convinced eventually as this is in his backyard, but could you imagine Kenny or Moe agreeing to that tactic?
posted by fimbulvetr at 6:46 AM on February 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
[Ignorant European here] Would provincial authorities/employees simply ignore tickets and fines issued by local authorities? Over here if you get enough tickets issued by the local city worker or police officer and your license will likely be pulled by the state for a certain time period. Generally it happens more or less automatically in a points system – AFAIK someone would have to really go out of their way to throw a wrench in those gears of bureaucracy. Commercial trucking licenses are especially strict in that regard. Is it not like this in Canada?
In any case, I saw the horn blasting videos this morning for the first time. I feel sorry for anyone having to deal with that for even an hour.
posted by UN at 7:09 AM on February 8, 2022
In any case, I saw the horn blasting videos this morning for the first time. I feel sorry for anyone having to deal with that for even an hour.
posted by UN at 7:09 AM on February 8, 2022
Municipalities are not sovereign entities legally in Canada, they're part of the Provincial government. So ticketing applies province-wide, and is often enforced for driving offences when personal license renewals happen. Canada generally uses points systems as well.
It used to be that individuals could avoid fines and even harsher penalties (e.g., loss of license) by staying out of the province that was trying to punish them, however most provinces now will require restitution for offences ticketed in other provinces.
The system isn't perfect, but it's less imperfect than it used to be pre-internet. Commercial licensing is a bit of an jurisdictional mess, but indeed, it's generally stricter: logs of hours worked, mandatory rest periods, etc... There are pan-Canadian national requirements on CDLs too, as well as provincial ones.
posted by bonehead at 8:05 AM on February 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
It used to be that individuals could avoid fines and even harsher penalties (e.g., loss of license) by staying out of the province that was trying to punish them, however most provinces now will require restitution for offences ticketed in other provinces.
The system isn't perfect, but it's less imperfect than it used to be pre-internet. Commercial licensing is a bit of an jurisdictional mess, but indeed, it's generally stricter: logs of hours worked, mandatory rest periods, etc... There are pan-Canadian national requirements on CDLs too, as well as provincial ones.
posted by bonehead at 8:05 AM on February 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
Here's a local CBC Windsor reporter who's covering the Ambassador Bridge stuff.
The owner of the Ambassador Bridge makes a rare public statement about the protest blocking access to his bridge. Hm. Apparently quite sanguine so far.
Side note: the Ambassador Bridge is odd in that it's privately owned (whereas, say, the Bluewater Bridge is jointly and owned by Michigan DOT and Canadian federal Crown corporation). Here's a little background on the havoc the Morouns caused in Windsor. They're also really done a number on the areas in Detroit that are adjacent to the bridge. There's more, of course.
But so as not to derail, bottom line is that there's a very rich family that owns that bridge and makes a killing from bridge tolls.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:05 AM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
The owner of the Ambassador Bridge makes a rare public statement about the protest blocking access to his bridge. Hm. Apparently quite sanguine so far.
Side note: the Ambassador Bridge is odd in that it's privately owned (whereas, say, the Bluewater Bridge is jointly and owned by Michigan DOT and Canadian federal Crown corporation). Here's a little background on the havoc the Morouns caused in Windsor. They're also really done a number on the areas in Detroit that are adjacent to the bridge. There's more, of course.
But so as not to derail, bottom line is that there's a very rich family that owns that bridge and makes a killing from bridge tolls.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:05 AM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
assaulting a circus
This really needs to be its own specific violation in the criminal code.
posted by mazola at 9:12 AM on February 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
This really needs to be its own specific violation in the criminal code.
posted by mazola at 9:12 AM on February 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
There is a very long backup developing on the US side of the Bluewater Bridge (Port Huron-Sarnia crossing). At the moment it appears to be due to traffic redirected from the Ambassador Bridge but I'm sure someone is planning a demonstration up there too.
posted by Preserver at 9:24 AM on February 8, 2022
posted by Preserver at 9:24 AM on February 8, 2022
Just a note, however angry we get, it's important to remember not to wish the cops/whoever do anything to these absolute assholes that you wouldn't wish them to do to us whenever we get around to that general strike.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:29 AM on February 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:29 AM on February 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
That's a provincial thing. I can't see a world where Doug Ford might do that to help the feds.
Or a Western premier. I can't see a Western premier of any political stripe doing that.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:07 AM on February 8, 2022
Or a Western premier. I can't see a Western premier of any political stripe doing that.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:07 AM on February 8, 2022
Via Twitter:
Important context:
This is the small group of protestors blocking both the entrance to and exit from the Ambassador Bridge in Windsor, Ont. I count three transport trucks among them.
The huge line of other transport trucks are those trying to cross.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:09 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Important context:
This is the small group of protestors blocking both the entrance to and exit from the Ambassador Bridge in Windsor, Ont. I count three transport trucks among them.
The huge line of other transport trucks are those trying to cross.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:09 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Oh dear: A 20 year-old man from Akron, Ohio, is facing potential swatting-related charges after calling in a bomb threat to police in the wrong Ottawa.
posted by scruss at 11:14 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by scruss at 11:14 AM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
On the other hand, it's pretty likely that if the police ever do take any kind of significant action here, that will be used to justify even more violence and aggression towards the other kind of protestors. It will be used to shift the window of what the police can get away with even further, but be presented as fairness and balance. I think it's entirely plausible that violent tactics here will increase risks for others in the future.
posted by ssg at 11:51 AM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by ssg at 11:51 AM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
> ssg: "On the other hand, it's pretty likely that if the police ever do take any kind of significant action here, that will be used to justify even more violence and aggression towards the other kind of protestors."
Counterpoint: the only way to curtail police violence against protestors in general is to have them enact that violence against right-wing protestors and thus incur a backlash from the (small-c) conservative politicians and populace who would otherwise block police reforms.
These are both hypotheticals and I don't have enough information to judge which is more likely.
posted by mhum at 1:05 PM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Counterpoint: the only way to curtail police violence against protestors in general is to have them enact that violence against right-wing protestors and thus incur a backlash from the (small-c) conservative politicians and populace who would otherwise block police reforms.
These are both hypotheticals and I don't have enough information to judge which is more likely.
posted by mhum at 1:05 PM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
whenever we get around to that general strike
What's gonna happen first, however, is the thugs will do this in as many cities and countries as possible; there are already identified groups seeking to repeat the experience in multiple European nations.
Time to move out of the central cities if you want to live a quiet life, because these assholes are gonna try to clog up every central district they can, and they're gonna do it over, and over, and over, and over again because for them this is all just a big party and apparently there is nothing anybody can do to stop them except mutter imprecations and pay attention to whether your building lobby has been set on fire yet.
posted by aramaic at 1:07 PM on February 8, 2022
What's gonna happen first, however, is the thugs will do this in as many cities and countries as possible; there are already identified groups seeking to repeat the experience in multiple European nations.
Time to move out of the central cities if you want to live a quiet life, because these assholes are gonna try to clog up every central district they can, and they're gonna do it over, and over, and over, and over again because for them this is all just a big party and apparently there is nothing anybody can do to stop them except mutter imprecations and pay attention to whether your building lobby has been set on fire yet.
posted by aramaic at 1:07 PM on February 8, 2022
Time to move out of the central cities if you want to live a quiet life, because these assholes are gonna try to clog up every central district they can
and when they're through for a bit, they go home where you're trying to live a quiet life
i don't think there's any easy way out of this
posted by pyramid termite at 1:21 PM on February 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
and when they're through for a bit, they go home where you're trying to live a quiet life
i don't think there's any easy way out of this
posted by pyramid termite at 1:21 PM on February 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
To my mind, it's clearly the case that there is no real "fairness" or "balance" needed to justify police violence against marginalized people.
Of course there's no real fairness or balance. This isn't about reality, but about skewed perception in the media, in the political classes, among police themselves. I'm talking about what you read in the Globe & Mail, what passes for centrism. The police are definitely constrained by a certain kind of public opinion and I do think there is a risk that things get a lot worse if the police response here becomes more violent.
Counterpoint: the only way to curtail police violence against protestors in general is to have them enact that violence against right-wing protestors and thus incur a backlash from the (small-c) conservative politicians and populace who would otherwise block police reforms.
I think you'd need a few decades of that kind of violence to make a dent in how much these folks love the police and believe whatever they are told.
posted by ssg at 1:23 PM on February 8, 2022
Of course there's no real fairness or balance. This isn't about reality, but about skewed perception in the media, in the political classes, among police themselves. I'm talking about what you read in the Globe & Mail, what passes for centrism. The police are definitely constrained by a certain kind of public opinion and I do think there is a risk that things get a lot worse if the police response here becomes more violent.
Counterpoint: the only way to curtail police violence against protestors in general is to have them enact that violence against right-wing protestors and thus incur a backlash from the (small-c) conservative politicians and populace who would otherwise block police reforms.
I think you'd need a few decades of that kind of violence to make a dent in how much these folks love the police and believe whatever they are told.
posted by ssg at 1:23 PM on February 8, 2022
it is very disappointing that the police in Canada aren't doing their job. I had the romantic impression that Canada was a civilized country. I think the most disappointing aspect is that the conspiracy fascists are such a small group, there is no political reason not to get rid of them.
Time to move out of the central cities if you want to live a quiet life, because these assholes are gonna try to clog up every central district they can
Here the police have taken out the fascist anti-vaxxers exactly in the same way as they did the anarchists some years ago. Not pretty, and a bit confusing to feel relief that they did what they were supposed to do. But it works, so I feel safe living here.
posted by mumimor at 1:38 PM on February 8, 2022
Time to move out of the central cities if you want to live a quiet life, because these assholes are gonna try to clog up every central district they can
Here the police have taken out the fascist anti-vaxxers exactly in the same way as they did the anarchists some years ago. Not pretty, and a bit confusing to feel relief that they did what they were supposed to do. But it works, so I feel safe living here.
posted by mumimor at 1:38 PM on February 8, 2022
On the other hand, it's pretty likely that if the police ever do take any kind of significant action here, that will be used to justify even more violence and aggression towards the other kind of protestors.
On the other other hand, if the police continue to fail to take action, they can use the backlash against them as an excuse to come down harder on future protests. As Rock 'em Sock 'em says above: there is no real "fairness" or "balance" needed to justify police violence against marginalized people. Those who want an excuse will always concoct one.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 1:42 PM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
On the other other hand, if the police continue to fail to take action, they can use the backlash against them as an excuse to come down harder on future protests. As Rock 'em Sock 'em says above: there is no real "fairness" or "balance" needed to justify police violence against marginalized people. Those who want an excuse will always concoct one.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 1:42 PM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
I had the romantic impression that Canada was a civilized country.
Starlight tours. That should disabuse you of any romantic impressions.
posted by clawsoon at 1:45 PM on February 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
Starlight tours. That should disabuse you of any romantic impressions.
posted by clawsoon at 1:45 PM on February 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
Starlight tours. That should disabuse you of any romantic impressions.
OMG. I'm so sorry. I had no idea.
posted by mumimor at 1:49 PM on February 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
OMG. I'm so sorry. I had no idea.
posted by mumimor at 1:49 PM on February 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
another thing that's gradually dawning on me - this seems that it was a lot better planned and calculated than usual - i wonder what else is being planned
posted by pyramid termite at 1:51 PM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 1:51 PM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
The situation with police is the reverse of any kind of a 'high tide smashes all boats against the pier' situation, because the less violent police are with fascist insurgents, the more violent they will be with minorities, because the central pillar of fascism is violent suppression of minorities, and the police are easy on the fascists because they are fascist and proto-fascist themselves.
posted by jamjam at 1:53 PM on February 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by jamjam at 1:53 PM on February 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
There are many people who I grew up with who are very, very happy about these protests. They are feeling a swelling of patriotism - what a great country Canada is! Look at all the love and unity!
There aren't enough of them to elect a majority government - so far the properly conducted polls have all put support for the protests at about 1/3rd of Canadians - but, still, they're 1/3rd of Canadians.
posted by clawsoon at 2:00 PM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
There aren't enough of them to elect a majority government - so far the properly conducted polls have all put support for the protests at about 1/3rd of Canadians - but, still, they're 1/3rd of Canadians.
posted by clawsoon at 2:00 PM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Sadly the prospect of the votes of the 1/3 is enough to e.g. make Polievre the next PC leader.
posted by storybored at 2:07 PM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by storybored at 2:07 PM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
The "memorandum of understanding" calling for the Governor General, Senate and people appointed by Canada Unity to override all elected governments in Canada, which was signed by 300,000 Canadians, has been withdrawn, with the excuse that they're not lawyers and didn't realize how anti-democratic it was.
Archived version of the original memorandum.
posted by clawsoon at 2:16 PM on February 8, 2022 [8 favorites]
Archived version of the original memorandum.
posted by clawsoon at 2:16 PM on February 8, 2022 [8 favorites]
. I think the most disappointing aspect is that the conspiracy fascists are such a small group, there is no political reason not to get rid of them.
One problem is the cops are disproportionately antivaxine mandate themselves. A very vocal contingent locally completely lost their shit when they came down. It was like "How dare you enforce laws on cops". Like literal billboards decrying the loss of freedom.
posted by Mitheral at 2:19 PM on February 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
One problem is the cops are disproportionately antivaxine mandate themselves. A very vocal contingent locally completely lost their shit when they came down. It was like "How dare you enforce laws on cops". Like literal billboards decrying the loss of freedom.
posted by Mitheral at 2:19 PM on February 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
The "memorandum of understanding" calling for the Governor General, Senate and people appointed by Canada Unity to override all elected governments in Canada
What a word salad. This is to constitutional law what homeopathy is to oncology.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:32 PM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
What a word salad. This is to constitutional law what homeopathy is to oncology.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:32 PM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
I know someone who spent a fair amount of time in a campus law library and did a lot of research towards self-representation in court, they also have a tendency to send long, rambling emails interspersed with (as stated above) a word salad of copy-pasted terms and reference to legal things that don't really fit and/or add up to a whole, and that's what the MOU posted makes me think of.
The person in question almost certainly struggled in school and has had to overcome enormous challenges going back to their childhood experience, and frankly they seem unhinged much of the time. So much of this seems so very unhinged to me.. a combination of mentally ill people and the most opportunistic bastards you could ever hope to avoid.. a smattering of legitimate concerns.. but it all adds up to a toxic heap that bodes ill for the country.
posted by elkevelvet at 2:39 PM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
The person in question almost certainly struggled in school and has had to overcome enormous challenges going back to their childhood experience, and frankly they seem unhinged much of the time. So much of this seems so very unhinged to me.. a combination of mentally ill people and the most opportunistic bastards you could ever hope to avoid.. a smattering of legitimate concerns.. but it all adds up to a toxic heap that bodes ill for the country.
posted by elkevelvet at 2:39 PM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
CBC is reporting that part of the reason for the slow police response is that there are kids in up to 25% of the convoy vehicles. A friend in Ottawa reported seeing a newborn in there.
posted by peppermind at 3:24 PM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by peppermind at 3:24 PM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Peter Sloly was a deputy chief here in Toronto and was in the running to be the chief after Bill Blair. He was viewed as a reformer who would have done more to modernize the force than Mark Saunders who ended up getting the job. It was a bit of a surprise for me to see his name in relation to the convoy (in the same way it was a surprise to read this morning that one-time TTC head Andy Byford is now the head of Transport for London). Maybe this lighter approach to the convoy is in line with his policing philosophy towards protests generally. Have there been other large in protests in Ottawa while he was chief that we can compare his handling to?
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:23 PM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:23 PM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
Not sure if this video (originally from the CBC) has been posted yet. It talks about how a couple of the organizers are former police officers. The video talks about how that gives them an organizational edge against the police, but I'm guessing it gives them a psychological edge, too. Enforcing the law against other police officers seems like it's a difficult thing.
posted by clawsoon at 4:45 PM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 4:45 PM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
The "memorandum of understanding"... has been withdrawn, with the excuse that they're not lawyers and didn't realize how anti-democratic it was.
Wow, you'd think they might have run it by an actual lawyer before they put it out there...
Re the poll that showed that a third of Canadians feel that they have a lot in common with the protestors, I am aware of this one this one, from Abacus Data. It's important to note that the questions are very broad, and also that the actual data gathering took place from 31 Jan-2 Feb, so right at the beginning of the chaos, when many people thought this was just going to be a normal protest, with a weekend of noise and upheaval, and not much else. It will be interesting to see what people say after seeing how they behaved over the next ten days, and after learning more about the organizers and their funding sources.
That said, there are clearly a lot of people who are unhappy with the handling of the pandemic and associated mandates and restrictions, and our leaders need to pay attention to that. In my own circle, I'm getting very concerned about the level of polarization among my friends, most of whom are eager to see the use of overwhelming force to end this, casualties, collateral damage, and long-term consequences be damned. It's scary, and I fear that this, and its aftershocks, will be with us for a long time.
posted by rpfields at 5:34 PM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Wow, you'd think they might have run it by an actual lawyer before they put it out there...
Re the poll that showed that a third of Canadians feel that they have a lot in common with the protestors, I am aware of this one this one, from Abacus Data. It's important to note that the questions are very broad, and also that the actual data gathering took place from 31 Jan-2 Feb, so right at the beginning of the chaos, when many people thought this was just going to be a normal protest, with a weekend of noise and upheaval, and not much else. It will be interesting to see what people say after seeing how they behaved over the next ten days, and after learning more about the organizers and their funding sources.
That said, there are clearly a lot of people who are unhappy with the handling of the pandemic and associated mandates and restrictions, and our leaders need to pay attention to that. In my own circle, I'm getting very concerned about the level of polarization among my friends, most of whom are eager to see the use of overwhelming force to end this, casualties, collateral damage, and long-term consequences be damned. It's scary, and I fear that this, and its aftershocks, will be with us for a long time.
posted by rpfields at 5:34 PM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
In terms of ending it - the whole thing makes me think about Charlottesville. That too was a situation where a smart centrist mayor with no left-wing sympathies at all would still have nipped things in the bud. Unfortunately we had stupid people and fascists in charge and none of them were realistic about lack of control of the police.
Charlottesville ended up as a defeat for the right, if a partial one, but that was because of the organized and fierce counter-protest - the nazis had planned (and organized and practiced) to spread out and riot through the town, beating and probably killing people as they went. They weren't able to do this because the counter-protesters pinned them down and kept them busy, but the beating of DeAndre Harris was a little foretaste of what they intended. The cops stood by while Harris was beaten, and we know they also stood by as others were beaten and Heather Heyer was murdered.
Because of Charlottesville, a lot of people got ideas. It's not that a lot of totally new tactics came out of it, but connections were made, the idea of a mass attack on a chosen place became better understood, car attacks became much more mainstream.
It would have been infinitely better for this country as a whole if the nazis' permits had been yanked and they had been forced out of town by police. It would not have been a perfect solution with zero downsides, but what happened was a lot of terrible, terrible people were entertained and delighted by the spectacle of the right beating and killing and suddenly had a menu of actions for their own projects and areas. The extended and horrific nature of the spectacle was the problem, and cutting it short would have been better than letting it run.
Right now it looks a lot like the provincial government can't control its police - the police are rogue and fascist and the government has no interest in correcting this. Right wing people can attack a city and hurt and threaten its occupants with basically no pushback. That's the lesson everyone is learning. They're also learning that it looks pretty fun - lots of community, bouncy houses, millions in cash coming in, the pleasure of, eg, breaking into student residences to terrorize the students.
The spectacle of the cops arresting a bunch of people and the city doing the long and laborious work of confiscating the removing the trucks is a lot better than the spectacle of the city as totally unwilling to protect its citizens or else totally unable to control its cops. I really think that if folks don't want to see semi-annual attacks on cities and liberal areas - all funded by the American right - they need to find a way to end things now.
~~
As to concerns about children - we already know that no matter what the cops do, they won't treat the children of the far right as badly as they treat our children. That doesn't seem like an argument against arresting people.
posted by Frowner at 6:33 PM on February 8, 2022 [21 favorites]
Charlottesville ended up as a defeat for the right, if a partial one, but that was because of the organized and fierce counter-protest - the nazis had planned (and organized and practiced) to spread out and riot through the town, beating and probably killing people as they went. They weren't able to do this because the counter-protesters pinned them down and kept them busy, but the beating of DeAndre Harris was a little foretaste of what they intended. The cops stood by while Harris was beaten, and we know they also stood by as others were beaten and Heather Heyer was murdered.
Because of Charlottesville, a lot of people got ideas. It's not that a lot of totally new tactics came out of it, but connections were made, the idea of a mass attack on a chosen place became better understood, car attacks became much more mainstream.
It would have been infinitely better for this country as a whole if the nazis' permits had been yanked and they had been forced out of town by police. It would not have been a perfect solution with zero downsides, but what happened was a lot of terrible, terrible people were entertained and delighted by the spectacle of the right beating and killing and suddenly had a menu of actions for their own projects and areas. The extended and horrific nature of the spectacle was the problem, and cutting it short would have been better than letting it run.
Right now it looks a lot like the provincial government can't control its police - the police are rogue and fascist and the government has no interest in correcting this. Right wing people can attack a city and hurt and threaten its occupants with basically no pushback. That's the lesson everyone is learning. They're also learning that it looks pretty fun - lots of community, bouncy houses, millions in cash coming in, the pleasure of, eg, breaking into student residences to terrorize the students.
The spectacle of the cops arresting a bunch of people and the city doing the long and laborious work of confiscating the removing the trucks is a lot better than the spectacle of the city as totally unwilling to protect its citizens or else totally unable to control its cops. I really think that if folks don't want to see semi-annual attacks on cities and liberal areas - all funded by the American right - they need to find a way to end things now.
~~
As to concerns about children - we already know that no matter what the cops do, they won't treat the children of the far right as badly as they treat our children. That doesn't seem like an argument against arresting people.
posted by Frowner at 6:33 PM on February 8, 2022 [21 favorites]
Also, the government is saying to its liberal/urban/civic-minded citizens, "hey, fuck you, you won't get any sleep and maybe an arsonist will set your building on fire, we won't do anything to protect you". When I see my mayor and my governor refuse to control the cops, it tells me that they are either too stupid to value my vote and loyalty or that they actually sympathize with the fascists. This is not good for maintaining liberal governments. I cannot imagine that the people actually living through this in Ottawa feel particularly happy with or impressed with the city and provincial government right now.
posted by Frowner at 6:37 PM on February 8, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 6:37 PM on February 8, 2022 [10 favorites]
The "memorandum of understanding"... has been withdrawn, with the excuse that they're not lawyers and didn't realize how anti-democratic it was.
"Wow, you'd think they might have run it by an actual lawyer before they put it out there..."
I'm reminded of this Jimmy Hoffa qoate.
"In the old days all you needed was a handshake. Nowadays you need forty lawyers."
the bottom line is that Canadian and American truckers can slow this part of the Continent down, literally, look at the bridge situation in Michigan today. Sure, Biden and Pierre could have the military do the trucking if you arrest the drivers. They know they have the power, power to make our lives worse by going on strike. I have no doubt Americans are helping fuel this and that's sad. The only thing to curb this is to shame them by showing that their attempts to procure more rights could prevent medical, food shipments to children.
The Chinook magnet is silly and I've driven tow trucks, hauling a rig is a huge deal, I'd just conficate them but that would set of a fire storm. Canada is my closet neighbor, not Ohio and I really hope this ends soon or the truckers may shut things down but I'll wager by doing that, they will burn their bridges.
posted by clavdivs at 7:11 PM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
"Wow, you'd think they might have run it by an actual lawyer before they put it out there..."
I'm reminded of this Jimmy Hoffa qoate.
"In the old days all you needed was a handshake. Nowadays you need forty lawyers."
the bottom line is that Canadian and American truckers can slow this part of the Continent down, literally, look at the bridge situation in Michigan today. Sure, Biden and Pierre could have the military do the trucking if you arrest the drivers. They know they have the power, power to make our lives worse by going on strike. I have no doubt Americans are helping fuel this and that's sad. The only thing to curb this is to shame them by showing that their attempts to procure more rights could prevent medical, food shipments to children.
The Chinook magnet is silly and I've driven tow trucks, hauling a rig is a huge deal, I'd just conficate them but that would set of a fire storm. Canada is my closet neighbor, not Ohio and I really hope this ends soon or the truckers may shut things down but I'll wager by doing that, they will burn their bridges.
posted by clavdivs at 7:11 PM on February 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
They know they have the power, power to make our lives worse by going on strike.
That's not what's happening though. The actual number of truckers in Ottawa or blocking travel at the border is very small and not significant for transportation needs. People are just occupying Ottawa and blockading the border. It's not at all a strike.
posted by ssg at 7:20 PM on February 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
That's not what's happening though. The actual number of truckers in Ottawa or blocking travel at the border is very small and not significant for transportation needs. People are just occupying Ottawa and blockading the border. It's not at all a strike.
posted by ssg at 7:20 PM on February 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
and when they're through for a bit, they go home where you're trying to live a quiet life
Eh, I mean, not to get all "fuck you I got mine" but one of the reasons I live where I do is because I'm reasonably sure right-wing shitheads can't reach me without getting killed first, and also I know how to set a truck on fire because I spent my youth in the SHARPs, with my best friend being the Mad Bomber of Edmonton (literally; good guy, kinda weird that he carried a lead-weighted swagger stick though but I see why he did obvs).
I mean, I set off a pyrotechnic device on the grounds of the Alberta Legislature. Not a bottle rocket. Not a firecracker. It's funny, I used to think Lougheed was The Worst Guy and now I realize he was actually pretty reasonable. Oops, I guess? Probably should have saved my chemicals for these days, although realistically they'd have evaporated by now.
I do miss soap candy though.
posted by aramaic at 7:43 PM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
Eh, I mean, not to get all "fuck you I got mine" but one of the reasons I live where I do is because I'm reasonably sure right-wing shitheads can't reach me without getting killed first, and also I know how to set a truck on fire because I spent my youth in the SHARPs, with my best friend being the Mad Bomber of Edmonton (literally; good guy, kinda weird that he carried a lead-weighted swagger stick though but I see why he did obvs).
I mean, I set off a pyrotechnic device on the grounds of the Alberta Legislature. Not a bottle rocket. Not a firecracker. It's funny, I used to think Lougheed was The Worst Guy and now I realize he was actually pretty reasonable. Oops, I guess? Probably should have saved my chemicals for these days, although realistically they'd have evaporated by now.
I do miss soap candy though.
posted by aramaic at 7:43 PM on February 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm sorry " if they went on strike". They are not on strike, they are warming up to it. And the US and Canada teamsters are mum about this, that's what freaks me out.
"Detroit Bridge Closed for First Time in Decades Over Canada COVID Protest"
Do you know what a logistics fuck all it is go from the ambassador to the blue water
one day and it brought havoc. I realize alot of Canadian goods come by rail but who's going to drive if a strike is called and they won't need permission from the teamsters, they will just do it.
"Canadian Transport Minister Omar Alghabra said such blockades will have serious implications on the economy and supply chains. “I've already heard from automakers and food grocers. This is really a serious cause for concern," he said in Ottawa, the capital."
I'd wager that stunt cost millions.
posted by clavdivs at 7:59 PM on February 8, 2022
"Detroit Bridge Closed for First Time in Decades Over Canada COVID Protest"
Do you know what a logistics fuck all it is go from the ambassador to the blue water
one day and it brought havoc. I realize alot of Canadian goods come by rail but who's going to drive if a strike is called and they won't need permission from the teamsters, they will just do it.
"Canadian Transport Minister Omar Alghabra said such blockades will have serious implications on the economy and supply chains. “I've already heard from automakers and food grocers. This is really a serious cause for concern," he said in Ottawa, the capital."
I'd wager that stunt cost millions.
posted by clavdivs at 7:59 PM on February 8, 2022
I imagine a lot of SHARPs are wondering if they need to lace up again.
posted by house-goblin at 8:20 PM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by house-goblin at 8:20 PM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm sorry " if they went on strike". They are not on strike, they are warming up to it. And the US and Canada teamsters are mum about this, that's what freaks me out.
"The so-called “freedom convoy” and the despicable display of hate lead by the political Right and shamefully encouraged by elected conservative politicians does not reflect the values of Teamsters Canada, nor the vast majority of our members, and in fact has served to delegitimize the real concerns of most truck drivers today."
There are no signs that truck drivers in general are warming up to go on strike. The political beliefs of truck drivers are varied, just like in any other industry, and these truckers are definitely not representative of the whole industry.
posted by ssg at 8:47 PM on February 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
"The so-called “freedom convoy” and the despicable display of hate lead by the political Right and shamefully encouraged by elected conservative politicians does not reflect the values of Teamsters Canada, nor the vast majority of our members, and in fact has served to delegitimize the real concerns of most truck drivers today."
There are no signs that truck drivers in general are warming up to go on strike. The political beliefs of truck drivers are varied, just like in any other industry, and these truckers are definitely not representative of the whole industry.
posted by ssg at 8:47 PM on February 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
In ways your right, they have already warmed up, had a week plus of it.
And nice find. I see they put that up yesterday, wasn't there when I posted up thread. so they have said something and that's something. But I see Teamsters USA is still mum.
Still, Teamsters Canada should have delegitimized this thing from the start.
posted by clavdivs at 10:21 PM on February 8, 2022
And nice find. I see they put that up yesterday, wasn't there when I posted up thread. so they have said something and that's something. But I see Teamsters USA is still mum.
Still, Teamsters Canada should have delegitimized this thing from the start.
posted by clavdivs at 10:21 PM on February 8, 2022
I cannot imagine that the people actually living through this in Ottawa feel particularly happy with or impressed with the city and provincial government right now.
Municipal, provincial, federal, police services have all abandoned us.
Watson is retiring, which now I'm almost sad about because I would love to see him defeated by a landslide in the next municipal vote. Ford has said nothing as far as I know and Trudeau took 9 days or something to even comment and said no to military assistance.
And I was saying to my brother that I fear to go out, not just because of these "protesters" but equally so because I no longer trust the police to help me.
Somewhere on Reddit someone asked what it would take to trust the Ottawa police again, and there was a chorus of 'burn it down and start over' and I might be in this camp now too.
I feel betrayed by all of them.
posted by aclevername at 10:24 PM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Municipal, provincial, federal, police services have all abandoned us.
Watson is retiring, which now I'm almost sad about because I would love to see him defeated by a landslide in the next municipal vote. Ford has said nothing as far as I know and Trudeau took 9 days or something to even comment and said no to military assistance.
And I was saying to my brother that I fear to go out, not just because of these "protesters" but equally so because I no longer trust the police to help me.
Somewhere on Reddit someone asked what it would take to trust the Ottawa police again, and there was a chorus of 'burn it down and start over' and I might be in this camp now too.
I feel betrayed by all of them.
posted by aclevername at 10:24 PM on February 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
In Canada I don't see how there could be a trucker strike. The majority of Canadian truckers are POC, the majority of Canadian truckers support anti-covid measures. Truckers qua truckers aren't going on strike over covid, although if I were a Canadian trucker I'd be wondering about striking over, eg, pay and benefits since it looks pretty effective.
And a lot of these people in Ottawa don't seem to be "truckers" in the conventional sense - they either have fancy trucks of their own which means more money and different work than the regular ones or they bought junkers to abandon, and how many people do you know who can just, like, buy a truck for shits and giggles? These are the same well off far right men as usual, with their own deep pockets and the bankroll of probably the Kochs or someone in the background.
In the US, trucking is a terrible job and I'm not sure that there are enough long-distance truckers who can afford to be off work long enough to strike, especially given the much weaker covid rules in the US.
~~
This isn't a strike problem or a trucker problem, it's a fascist problem. All these people - if you asked them about trans people or immigration or gay marriage or indigenous land, what do you think they'd say? On my twitter, BIPOC Canadians have talked about being harassed, attacked and called slurs by these people. They broke into student residences to terrorize the students, to the point that the local university students were asking to go remote.
The problem isn't truckers, the problem is that a smallish number of rich white fascists have something like fast tanks and the bankroll to simply skip work and attack a city and now they know that the government doesn't care.
What happens when the government abandons basically 70% of Canadians? (That's what is happening here; they are saying that the 30% or less of right-wingers get to call the shots.) Either there's a de facto fascist coup because the government cannot/will not do anything to maintain its power or else there's low intensity civil conflict because the majority can't bear it anymore. Like, if this stuff goes on long enough, even peaceful and civil Canadians are going to figure out ways to fight back if only to get a little sleep. At that point, the Canadian government can either muster the cops and/or troops to protect the fascists - in which case it really is a coup, game over - or things are just horrible on a low level for a long time.
The other long term problem is that this could be the nucleus of a popular fascist movement which could escalate to sustained violence and actually force the state to surrender, at least on a local basis. You've got this group of fascists and if they're joined by more people, well, you suddenly have an army at the gates and both the state and civil society are extremely unprepared.
All this time, I have been trying to figure out how civil conflict in large, low population density countries like the US and Canada would work, and it turns out that this is how - large rolling assaults on cities led by mobs funded by millionaires and billionaires from elsewhere.
If I were a Canadian politician who wanted there to be a meaningful Canadian polity in ten years, I'd be staying up nights trying to end this thing.
posted by Frowner at 3:55 AM on February 9, 2022 [15 favorites]
And a lot of these people in Ottawa don't seem to be "truckers" in the conventional sense - they either have fancy trucks of their own which means more money and different work than the regular ones or they bought junkers to abandon, and how many people do you know who can just, like, buy a truck for shits and giggles? These are the same well off far right men as usual, with their own deep pockets and the bankroll of probably the Kochs or someone in the background.
In the US, trucking is a terrible job and I'm not sure that there are enough long-distance truckers who can afford to be off work long enough to strike, especially given the much weaker covid rules in the US.
~~
This isn't a strike problem or a trucker problem, it's a fascist problem. All these people - if you asked them about trans people or immigration or gay marriage or indigenous land, what do you think they'd say? On my twitter, BIPOC Canadians have talked about being harassed, attacked and called slurs by these people. They broke into student residences to terrorize the students, to the point that the local university students were asking to go remote.
The problem isn't truckers, the problem is that a smallish number of rich white fascists have something like fast tanks and the bankroll to simply skip work and attack a city and now they know that the government doesn't care.
What happens when the government abandons basically 70% of Canadians? (That's what is happening here; they are saying that the 30% or less of right-wingers get to call the shots.) Either there's a de facto fascist coup because the government cannot/will not do anything to maintain its power or else there's low intensity civil conflict because the majority can't bear it anymore. Like, if this stuff goes on long enough, even peaceful and civil Canadians are going to figure out ways to fight back if only to get a little sleep. At that point, the Canadian government can either muster the cops and/or troops to protect the fascists - in which case it really is a coup, game over - or things are just horrible on a low level for a long time.
The other long term problem is that this could be the nucleus of a popular fascist movement which could escalate to sustained violence and actually force the state to surrender, at least on a local basis. You've got this group of fascists and if they're joined by more people, well, you suddenly have an army at the gates and both the state and civil society are extremely unprepared.
All this time, I have been trying to figure out how civil conflict in large, low population density countries like the US and Canada would work, and it turns out that this is how - large rolling assaults on cities led by mobs funded by millionaires and billionaires from elsewhere.
If I were a Canadian politician who wanted there to be a meaningful Canadian polity in ten years, I'd be staying up nights trying to end this thing.
posted by Frowner at 3:55 AM on February 9, 2022 [15 favorites]
In my fantasy version of Canada, where everyone has good intentions and is acting in good faith, the conversation that would happen next would be "how can we help each other?" between doctors and healthcare workers who are exhausted by the pandemic and convoy protesters who are exhausted by the lockdowns.
posted by clawsoon at 5:04 AM on February 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 5:04 AM on February 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
convoy protesters who are exhausted by the lockdowns
Do the right wing extremists partying it up in the streets of Ottawa look exhausted to you? You think most of them have actually been following other government public health measures so far and not gathering in groups at each others’ homes to party all through the past two years? You think they’ve been partying in Ottawa for a week now with their expensive trucks (transport or pickup) because they’ve had tiring economic worries due to the pandemic? If so, I have a bridge to sell you. I’ll even throw in some “freedom” protesters for free.
posted by eviemath at 5:48 AM on February 9, 2022 [10 favorites]
Do the right wing extremists partying it up in the streets of Ottawa look exhausted to you? You think most of them have actually been following other government public health measures so far and not gathering in groups at each others’ homes to party all through the past two years? You think they’ve been partying in Ottawa for a week now with their expensive trucks (transport or pickup) because they’ve had tiring economic worries due to the pandemic? If so, I have a bridge to sell you. I’ll even throw in some “freedom” protesters for free.
posted by eviemath at 5:48 AM on February 9, 2022 [10 favorites]
I *did* say it was a fantasy version. :-)
posted by clawsoon at 5:58 AM on February 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 5:58 AM on February 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
Ah. I, too, wish for a world where we didn't actually have right wing extremists nor people so selfish as to be completely opposed to all public health measures during a pandemic.
posted by eviemath at 6:22 AM on February 9, 2022
posted by eviemath at 6:22 AM on February 9, 2022
these truckers are definitely not representative of the whole industry
The unemployed and the unemployable.
posted by bonehead at 7:38 AM on February 9, 2022
The unemployed and the unemployable.
posted by bonehead at 7:38 AM on February 9, 2022
part of the reason for the slow police response is that there are kids in up to 25% of the convoy vehicles
Yeah, and? I mean, that's a good reason to not, say, throw the malfeasors in jail, leaving all those children without guardians, but you can write tickets and issue fines to your hearts' content without jeopardizing the immediate safety of a single child.
posted by jackbishop at 8:17 AM on February 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
Yeah, and? I mean, that's a good reason to not, say, throw the malfeasors in jail, leaving all those children without guardians, but you can write tickets and issue fines to your hearts' content without jeopardizing the immediate safety of a single child.
posted by jackbishop at 8:17 AM on February 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
Regarding the Ambassador Bridge, police in Windsor say:
"The difficulty is in a democratic society people have the right to protest and we respect that public protest."
This is clearly becoming the go-to excuse for sympathizing cops to avoid doing anything. Why aren't our cities doing anything about this ridiculous nonsense? Why do they keep letting cops speak to the media when they say stuff like this?
posted by ssg at 8:28 AM on February 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
"The difficulty is in a democratic society people have the right to protest and we respect that public protest."
This is clearly becoming the go-to excuse for sympathizing cops to avoid doing anything. Why aren't our cities doing anything about this ridiculous nonsense? Why do they keep letting cops speak to the media when they say stuff like this?
posted by ssg at 8:28 AM on February 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
I just listened to six minutes of EDM to report on some goofus's sign:
It is a
Planned
"INjection"
Program
Since Day 1
On another's:
Trudeau
Stop Your Narrative
Your Honnesty
Will Make Us Free
posted by box at 8:50 AM on February 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
It is a
Planned
"INjection"
Program
Since Day 1
On another's:
Trudeau
Stop Your Narrative
Your Honnesty
Will Make Us Free
posted by box at 8:50 AM on February 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
They're trying again in Queen's Park.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:45 AM on February 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:45 AM on February 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
"Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing."
That has been the mantra of authoritarians from the beginning of time; Joseph Heller merely expressed it in this elegant and elemental form. But "We reject that you _can_ hold any authority over us, or that our tribe is not privileged and exempt from your oversight, and we will respond to attempts to change our behavior with pushback that escalates up to physical intimidation and force" is the driving principle behind this and every other hard-right display of troglodytism.
And that's all that this is. The hard right is being asked to change its behavior in a small way, for the health and welfare of everybody, and their response is as if the government is demanding literal child sacrifice from their families. And now we are at the stage of "we will use physical intimidation to get our way, so you go ahead and try and stop us. You don't have the will or the ability to do that."
So far, it appears that they are correct.
posted by delfin at 10:05 AM on February 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
That has been the mantra of authoritarians from the beginning of time; Joseph Heller merely expressed it in this elegant and elemental form. But "We reject that you _can_ hold any authority over us, or that our tribe is not privileged and exempt from your oversight, and we will respond to attempts to change our behavior with pushback that escalates up to physical intimidation and force" is the driving principle behind this and every other hard-right display of troglodytism.
And that's all that this is. The hard right is being asked to change its behavior in a small way, for the health and welfare of everybody, and their response is as if the government is demanding literal child sacrifice from their families. And now we are at the stage of "we will use physical intimidation to get our way, so you go ahead and try and stop us. You don't have the will or the ability to do that."
So far, it appears that they are correct.
posted by delfin at 10:05 AM on February 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
The New York Times: A picture caption with an article on Tuesday about protests by truckers in Canada against coronavirus restrictions incorrectly implied that the protest shown was in Ottawa, Canada’s capital. The image showed a protest in Toronto, not Ottawa.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:43 AM on February 9, 2022
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:43 AM on February 9, 2022
From the Beaverton: Ghost of Pierre Elliott Trudeau urges Justin to “say the line”.
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:22 PM on February 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:22 PM on February 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
that's a good reason to not, say, throw the malfeasors in jail, leaving all those children without guardians
While this is an entirely reasonable position, I note that were the convoy a group of First Nations protesters I’m sure the RCMP would have had no trouble arresting parents, with social services organizers then using “well, the parents abandoned their children via being arrested” as an excuse to take the kids and place them in non-First Nations homes.
posted by eviemath at 1:23 PM on February 9, 2022 [12 favorites]
While this is an entirely reasonable position, I note that were the convoy a group of First Nations protesters I’m sure the RCMP would have had no trouble arresting parents, with social services organizers then using “well, the parents abandoned their children via being arrested” as an excuse to take the kids and place them in non-First Nations homes.
posted by eviemath at 1:23 PM on February 9, 2022 [12 favorites]
Crap. The OCP are letting the occupation set up another camp, this time in Confederation Heights less than 1 km from my house and across the river from Carleton University.
posted by fimbulvetr at 1:45 PM on February 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by fimbulvetr at 1:45 PM on February 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
‘Next Step is Civil War’: Big Money Convoy Donor Says
In case there was any confusion or doubt about the intentions of the occupiers.
posted by fimbulvetr at 2:00 PM on February 9, 2022 [11 favorites]
In case there was any confusion or doubt about the intentions of the occupiers.
posted by fimbulvetr at 2:00 PM on February 9, 2022 [11 favorites]
For the Ambassador Bridge standoff I kind of feel like they should just let truckers that are trying to cross the border and getting massively delayed "convince" these protesters to pick a different venue.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:06 PM on February 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:06 PM on February 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
police in Windsor say
As someone who has lived experience with this particular police service, let me just say that while ACAB, the cops who are a little too extra B for other police services will always have a job waiting for them with this one.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:17 PM on February 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
As someone who has lived experience with this particular police service, let me just say that while ACAB, the cops who are a little too extra B for other police services will always have a job waiting for them with this one.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:17 PM on February 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
‘Next Step is Civil War’: Big Money Convoy Donor Says
"Break out the guns" talk is nothing new on the part of the hard right. Cranks on the legendary Free Republic message board have been "keeping their powder dry" in preparation for The Big One for decades now, for instance.
Jello Biafra's first rule of rioting also comes into play: "There's more of us, but who goes first?" The number of people who are willing to be part of an angry, short-term, physically intimidating protest (like what's happening now) is one thing. The number who will be prepared to pick up a gun and physically confront government officials is quite another, and much smaller, especially since guns-have-come-out IS a point where law enforcement and politicians will (should?) feel a need to hold a line. If protests start containing armed factions, those who are not armed will have distinct choices to make, and many will run the other way.
But the escalation being spoken of is not wrong. We are at a stage of "we are physically occupying these spaces and daring you to try to remove us." The authorities have been embarrassingly unwilling and/or unable to remove them. "Let's occupy more important spaces" follows, and while occupying them with rifles is far more intense than with trucks, there are those who will at least venture the concept.
One of the Freedom Convoy organizers, Pat King, listed as the contact to join the Alberta North portion of the convoy, is shown here in an on-site video speaking pleasantly with a member of Canadian Parliament. Regarding COVID-19 precautions, King told one Facebook livestream on December 16: “The only way this is going to be solved is with bullets.” In another video, King advised his followers to stage large gatherings in defiance of public health guidelines. And, should they be reported by their neighbours, King is heard in the video saying “those people need to be shot.”
Again, the number of anti-vax anti-mandate pro-convoy people who are predisposed to become violent is a minority amongst a minority. There's not going to be block-to-block open warfare in the streets of Alberta any time soon. But it does only take one lone nut, or a small group of nuts, to cause a truly regrettable incident.
posted by delfin at 4:19 PM on February 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
"Break out the guns" talk is nothing new on the part of the hard right. Cranks on the legendary Free Republic message board have been "keeping their powder dry" in preparation for The Big One for decades now, for instance.
Jello Biafra's first rule of rioting also comes into play: "There's more of us, but who goes first?" The number of people who are willing to be part of an angry, short-term, physically intimidating protest (like what's happening now) is one thing. The number who will be prepared to pick up a gun and physically confront government officials is quite another, and much smaller, especially since guns-have-come-out IS a point where law enforcement and politicians will (should?) feel a need to hold a line. If protests start containing armed factions, those who are not armed will have distinct choices to make, and many will run the other way.
But the escalation being spoken of is not wrong. We are at a stage of "we are physically occupying these spaces and daring you to try to remove us." The authorities have been embarrassingly unwilling and/or unable to remove them. "Let's occupy more important spaces" follows, and while occupying them with rifles is far more intense than with trucks, there are those who will at least venture the concept.
One of the Freedom Convoy organizers, Pat King, listed as the contact to join the Alberta North portion of the convoy, is shown here in an on-site video speaking pleasantly with a member of Canadian Parliament. Regarding COVID-19 precautions, King told one Facebook livestream on December 16: “The only way this is going to be solved is with bullets.” In another video, King advised his followers to stage large gatherings in defiance of public health guidelines. And, should they be reported by their neighbours, King is heard in the video saying “those people need to be shot.”
Again, the number of anti-vax anti-mandate pro-convoy people who are predisposed to become violent is a minority amongst a minority. There's not going to be block-to-block open warfare in the streets of Alberta any time soon. But it does only take one lone nut, or a small group of nuts, to cause a truly regrettable incident.
posted by delfin at 4:19 PM on February 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
Tired of waiting for the "today it's a blast, tomorrow you're truckless" rule to kick in.
posted by house-goblin at 4:48 PM on February 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by house-goblin at 4:48 PM on February 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
Packs of big rigs are driving around the city tonight, blaring their horns. I dunno if they think this gets around the court injunction or what. One group I saw on Hunt Club included a rig with a train horn.
posted by fimbulvetr at 6:10 PM on February 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 6:10 PM on February 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
Anithate.ca has a first person account of what it's been like to be in Ottawa during the siege, written by an Ottawa resident.
posted by orange swan at 6:19 PM on February 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 6:19 PM on February 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
Matt Gurney needs to be taken with a big grain of salt, but this seems ominous....
Dispatch from the Ottawa Front: Sloly is telling you all he's in trouble. Who's listening?
The idea that Ottawa needs rescuing may seem absurd, but it's not. The longer this goes on, the harder it will become to convince the protesters the leave, and the harder it will be to stop others from joining in. The Ambassador Bridge, which links Windsor to Detroit, is now blocked. Would that have happened if Ottawa had been cleared quickly and decisively?
[...]
Before I came to Ottawa, I spoke with a few people who were sympathetic to the protest: I was advised to stay away from this secondary encampment site, or at least to approach it with caution. I wasn’t feeling particularly heroic on Tuesday, but I figured it wouldn’t make sense to travel all the way from Toronto and then ignore one of the main sites. I drove over, parked my car nearby and walked the rest of the way to the parking lot.
It was clear well before I even arrived that this was something different. There was absolutely no visible police presence. Not a single uniformed officer or marked cruiser. (Note my careful phrasing there: I have no doubt this place is under watch. Just not overtly.) This site, for lack of a better term, has been fortified. There are many trucks parked in the parking lot, but some of them have been arranged to form outer walls. These walls have been augmented with wooden sawhorses and what looked to me to be stacked pallets of some kind. There was an entrance with a tent marked Reception (see photo, below). I wish I could give you a better description of the site, or tell you what was inside, but as soon as I began to approach it on foot, someone very quickly fell into step behind me. A series of others, four or five, met me before I made it to the reception tent. We chatted briefly, and I got the distinct impression that it would be way, way better for me to be somewhere else. I left.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:18 PM on February 9, 2022 [9 favorites]
Dispatch from the Ottawa Front: Sloly is telling you all he's in trouble. Who's listening?
The idea that Ottawa needs rescuing may seem absurd, but it's not. The longer this goes on, the harder it will become to convince the protesters the leave, and the harder it will be to stop others from joining in. The Ambassador Bridge, which links Windsor to Detroit, is now blocked. Would that have happened if Ottawa had been cleared quickly and decisively?
[...]
Before I came to Ottawa, I spoke with a few people who were sympathetic to the protest: I was advised to stay away from this secondary encampment site, or at least to approach it with caution. I wasn’t feeling particularly heroic on Tuesday, but I figured it wouldn’t make sense to travel all the way from Toronto and then ignore one of the main sites. I drove over, parked my car nearby and walked the rest of the way to the parking lot.
It was clear well before I even arrived that this was something different. There was absolutely no visible police presence. Not a single uniformed officer or marked cruiser. (Note my careful phrasing there: I have no doubt this place is under watch. Just not overtly.) This site, for lack of a better term, has been fortified. There are many trucks parked in the parking lot, but some of them have been arranged to form outer walls. These walls have been augmented with wooden sawhorses and what looked to me to be stacked pallets of some kind. There was an entrance with a tent marked Reception (see photo, below). I wish I could give you a better description of the site, or tell you what was inside, but as soon as I began to approach it on foot, someone very quickly fell into step behind me. A series of others, four or five, met me before I made it to the reception tent. We chatted briefly, and I got the distinct impression that it would be way, way better for me to be somewhere else. I left.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:18 PM on February 9, 2022 [9 favorites]
occupying them with rifles is far more intense than with trucks
It's already a pretty big escalation with just the trucks from a march. From infantry to armored cav.
posted by ctmf at 8:24 PM on February 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's already a pretty big escalation with just the trucks from a march. From infantry to armored cav.
posted by ctmf at 8:24 PM on February 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
mandolin conspiracy, I was just setting up a link to that article when I saw your post. I agree that the journalist needs to be viewed with some skepticism but his comments track with what I am also hearing from friends who work in the security field at senior levels. It's chilling.
I note, though, that CBC is reporting that the shutdown of the bridge in Windsor is causing reduced production at auto plants on both sides of the border. The Canadian Labour Congress issued a statement today. If those big unions get involved things could get quite interesting, at least at surface and middle levels of the protest. The other stuff is, well, other stuff, and will be with us for some time, I fear.
posted by rpfields at 8:27 PM on February 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
I note, though, that CBC is reporting that the shutdown of the bridge in Windsor is causing reduced production at auto plants on both sides of the border. The Canadian Labour Congress issued a statement today. If those big unions get involved things could get quite interesting, at least at surface and middle levels of the protest. The other stuff is, well, other stuff, and will be with us for some time, I fear.
posted by rpfields at 8:27 PM on February 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yeah, the auto industries in Detroit and Windsor, respectively, have a parts and tool and die supply chain that feeds them where there are parts made in Canada and in the U.S. that cross that border all the time, and which are the sine qua non of final assembly.
To put this in context for anyone not familiar with the area, a parts or tool and die manufacturer in Windsor that, say, the GM Hamtramck facility uses imports from, is only about 15 km away (as the crow flies, anyway). Or vice versa for the Ford Essex Engine Plant in Windsor waiting for U.S.-produced parts that might coming from Detroit. Not far, geographically.
Jam up the Ambassador Bridge, and it might as well be 1,500 km away.
Not to mention parts coming from much further away. See also: just-in-time "efficiency," yadda yadda.
Oh, also - large agricultural industry in Windsor-Essex with lots of winter greenhouse production. And so on.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:46 PM on February 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
To put this in context for anyone not familiar with the area, a parts or tool and die manufacturer in Windsor that, say, the GM Hamtramck facility uses imports from, is only about 15 km away (as the crow flies, anyway). Or vice versa for the Ford Essex Engine Plant in Windsor waiting for U.S.-produced parts that might coming from Detroit. Not far, geographically.
Jam up the Ambassador Bridge, and it might as well be 1,500 km away.
Not to mention parts coming from much further away. See also: just-in-time "efficiency," yadda yadda.
Oh, also - large agricultural industry in Windsor-Essex with lots of winter greenhouse production. And so on.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:46 PM on February 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
The NZ #clownvoy in Wellington, which aped the Canadian one, is being moved along slowly but surely.
Some interesting commentary from progressives nationwide -
* Locals (typically seen as public-sector liberals/lefties - Wellington Central is a Labour stronghold) calling for police violence against protesters is sickening
* The paradox of hating cops but sympathising with the difficult job of dealing with asshats
* Comparing/contrasting treatment of progressive protests or sit-in (particularly those concerning Landback movements) versus an asshat 'protest'
* The pity/sympathy for the void left by 40+ years of neo-liberalism that is being filled by conspiracy theorists & grifters providing a sense of community for many involved in these activities
I guess its a healthy sign of self-reflection that there are a multitude of thoughts and opinions on the protest from the 95%+ vaxxed / pro-mandate population that puts paid to the lie around the lack of freedoms & thoughtcrime the #clownvoy claims to be protesting against
posted by phigmov at 10:06 PM on February 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
Some interesting commentary from progressives nationwide -
* Locals (typically seen as public-sector liberals/lefties - Wellington Central is a Labour stronghold) calling for police violence against protesters is sickening
* The paradox of hating cops but sympathising with the difficult job of dealing with asshats
* Comparing/contrasting treatment of progressive protests or sit-in (particularly those concerning Landback movements) versus an asshat 'protest'
* The pity/sympathy for the void left by 40+ years of neo-liberalism that is being filled by conspiracy theorists & grifters providing a sense of community for many involved in these activities
I guess its a healthy sign of self-reflection that there are a multitude of thoughts and opinions on the protest from the 95%+ vaxxed / pro-mandate population that puts paid to the lie around the lack of freedoms & thoughtcrime the #clownvoy claims to be protesting against
posted by phigmov at 10:06 PM on February 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
> The hard right is being asked to change its behavior in a small way, for the health and welfare of everybody, and their response is as if the government is demanding literal child sacrifice from their families.
The hard right wants race-war, towards the mass murder of perceived enemies, and the establishment of a mayonnaise-white ethnostate. (They're also here to grift and recruit.)
But they're using the antivaxx and related lunatic fringe for cover.
If it wasn't vaccination, they'd be rallying around the pipeline. (I think the Yellow-vests did that.)
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:19 AM on February 10, 2022 [16 favorites]
The hard right wants race-war, towards the mass murder of perceived enemies, and the establishment of a mayonnaise-white ethnostate. (They're also here to grift and recruit.)
But they're using the antivaxx and related lunatic fringe for cover.
If it wasn't vaccination, they'd be rallying around the pipeline. (I think the Yellow-vests did that.)
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:19 AM on February 10, 2022 [16 favorites]
Paris police authority bans ‘freedom convoy’ Covid protests
“Freedom convoys” of motorists that have set off from half a dozen French cities in protest against the country’s coronavirus restrictions will not be allowed to enter Paris, the capital’s police authority has said.posted by mumimor at 7:45 AM on February 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
“The stated objective of these demonstrations is to ‘block the capital’ by preventing road traffic from circulating in order to further their demands … from Friday, before moving on to Brussels on Monday,” the authority said.
“Because of the risk to public order, these protests will be banned from 11 to 14 February,” it said, adding the penalties for blocking public roads included two years in prison, a fine of €4,500 and a three-year driving ban.
Convoys of cars, vans and motorbikes left Nice in the south-east, Bayonne in the south-west, Strasbourg in the north-east and Cherbourg in the north-west, among other cities, for Paris on Wednesday and Thursday, inspired by a two-week truckers’ demonstration in Canada.
In my view this (the Ottawa truckers' occupation, the nascent American and European convoys/occupations) is part and parcel of Putin's asymmetrical assaults on democracy. It's his ideas, methods, and people bankrolling, propagandizing, and footsoldiering these movements, from sympathetic oligarchs down to the useful idiots.
I don't yet see how we democratically negotiate with nihilistic, death-cult fascists. Whatever we do do (love our neighbors, educate, mass arrest, militarize, whatever) must be strong and coordinated, and regardless of nation we've seen absolutely none of that from the top anywhere.
posted by riverlife at 9:17 AM on February 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
I don't yet see how we democratically negotiate with nihilistic, death-cult fascists. Whatever we do do (love our neighbors, educate, mass arrest, militarize, whatever) must be strong and coordinated, and regardless of nation we've seen absolutely none of that from the top anywhere.
posted by riverlife at 9:17 AM on February 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
As somebody who's closely followed far-right activity in Canada for a couple of decades (I'm no "expert," but I am a...disgusted hobbyist, let's just say) some of the best investigative reporting on the Canadian far right, white nationalists, and the domestic terror threat they pose has been done by Vice. For good reason, this might seem a little counterintuitive to some people because, well, Vice and its history.
But for whatever reason, it's where Ben Makuch (in the U.S.) and Mack Lamoureux (in Canada) have found a home and have collaborated on a whole bunch of cross-border investigative pieces that were loud and clear warnings. Antihate.ca uses a lot of their reporting as a resource.
Makuch had this to say today:
Whatever funding occurred these are Canadians and one of the most Canadian things to do is think the far-right doesn't really exist in your country when there's a strong history of it.
When @MackLamoureux and I started doing this work we were frequently told it wasn't a big deal. Case and point: This is from reporting we did in 2016-2017:
The Soldiers of Odin: Inside Canada's Extremist Vigilante Group
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:20 AM on February 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
But for whatever reason, it's where Ben Makuch (in the U.S.) and Mack Lamoureux (in Canada) have found a home and have collaborated on a whole bunch of cross-border investigative pieces that were loud and clear warnings. Antihate.ca uses a lot of their reporting as a resource.
Makuch had this to say today:
Whatever funding occurred these are Canadians and one of the most Canadian things to do is think the far-right doesn't really exist in your country when there's a strong history of it.
When @MackLamoureux and I started doing this work we were frequently told it wasn't a big deal. Case and point: This is from reporting we did in 2016-2017:
The Soldiers of Odin: Inside Canada's Extremist Vigilante Group
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:20 AM on February 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
A Porno-Metal Song About Gay Cowboys Is Disrupting the Anti-Vaxx Trucker Convoy.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:04 AM on February 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:04 AM on February 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
"In the case of General Motors, it is chartering cargo planes to fly parts stuck at Canada's border over the Detroit River and into the U.S. to keep a critical truck plant going."
The Port Huron/ Sarnia bridge is not as important as parts come and go by rail.
posted by clavdivs at 1:30 PM on February 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
The Port Huron/ Sarnia bridge is not as important as parts come and go by rail.
posted by clavdivs at 1:30 PM on February 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
The Government of Ontario has effectively frozen the GoFundGo assets. Announcement here. Much surprise in the chatter that such a thing could be done.
Honestly, I think that any of these yahoos who think that Canadians are going to have more freedom after this BS than they did before will have a very rude awakening. One thing about our system is that while it can be very slow to ramp up, when it does, it does.
posted by rpfields at 4:37 PM on February 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
Honestly, I think that any of these yahoos who think that Canadians are going to have more freedom after this BS than they did before will have a very rude awakening. One thing about our system is that while it can be very slow to ramp up, when it does, it does.
posted by rpfields at 4:37 PM on February 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
Much surprise in the chatter that such a thing could be done.
I've lately been thinking about various provisions under PCMLTFA as well.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:39 PM on February 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
I've lately been thinking about various provisions under PCMLTFA as well.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:39 PM on February 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
Ottawa Citizen: Video shows officer using his cruiser like a 'carnival ride' during protest in Ottawa red zone
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:30 PM on February 10, 2022
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:30 PM on February 10, 2022
Another person to follow for commentary on this issue is Caroline Orr Bueno. She's a behavioural scientist who studies mis/disinformation, cognitive security, mediated communication & crises, and though she's American she pays quite a bit of attention to right wing extremist activity in Canada.
posted by orange swan at 7:51 PM on February 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 7:51 PM on February 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think they are about to become very familiar with Canada's
terrorism provisions, which say in part:
In Canada, section 83.01 of the Criminal Code[1] defines terrorism as an act committed "in whole or in part for a political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause" with the intention of intimidating the public "…with regard to its security, including its economic security, or compelling a person, a government or a domestic or an international organization to do or to refrain from doing any act." Activities recognized as criminal within this context include death and bodily harm with the use of violence; endangering a person’s life; risks posed to the health and safety of the public; significant property damage; and interference or disruption of essential services, facilities or systems.
This definition has been criticized for being overly broad, so it will be interesting to see how it is applied in this case. Going after the bridges was a good idea for attention but might be a bad idea in the long run, as was slow-rolling around the airports and schools today. The PM was meeting with the opposition a couple of hours ago, and there are rumours of an emergency Cabinet meeting tomorrow.
posted by rpfields at 8:07 PM on February 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
terrorism provisions, which say in part:
In Canada, section 83.01 of the Criminal Code[1] defines terrorism as an act committed "in whole or in part for a political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause" with the intention of intimidating the public "…with regard to its security, including its economic security, or compelling a person, a government or a domestic or an international organization to do or to refrain from doing any act." Activities recognized as criminal within this context include death and bodily harm with the use of violence; endangering a person’s life; risks posed to the health and safety of the public; significant property damage; and interference or disruption of essential services, facilities or systems.
This definition has been criticized for being overly broad, so it will be interesting to see how it is applied in this case. Going after the bridges was a good idea for attention but might be a bad idea in the long run, as was slow-rolling around the airports and schools today. The PM was meeting with the opposition a couple of hours ago, and there are rumours of an emergency Cabinet meeting tomorrow.
posted by rpfields at 8:07 PM on February 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
Meanwhile the NZ 'convoy' are still camping on the lawn outside parliament, the Speaker of the House has ordered the sprinklers turned on, the convoy is claiming foul, meanwhile a storm is coming in and it's going to pour
posted by mbo at 12:07 AM on February 11, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by mbo at 12:07 AM on February 11, 2022 [8 favorites]
In my view this (the Ottawa truckers' occupation, the nascent American and European convoys/occupations) is part and parcel of Putin's asymmetrical assaults on democracy. It's his ideas, methods, and people bankrolling, propagandizing, and footsoldiering these movements, from sympathetic oligarchs down to the useful idiots.
Speaking of Putin and larger geopolitical purposes behind these protests, here is a story I really did not enjoy seeing this evening: Superyacht Believed To Belong To Putin Makes Hasty Departure From Germany To Russia :
Ali Velshi shares reports of a luxury superyacht believed to be Vladimir Putin's that abruptly left port in Germany for safer waters in Russia in what some speculate is a move to [avoid] confiscation or sanctions issues in the event Russia invades Ukraine and triggers reprisals.Will Trump attempt an 'only I am the Putin whisperer' Restoration push? Or will Putin be satisfied for now to be able to grab Ukraine while Western countries are grappling with destabilizing protests?
posted by jamjam at 1:49 AM on February 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
Convoy prompts Ontario to declare state of emergency
posted by bleary at 9:13 AM on February 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
The premier of the Canadian province of Ontario declared a state of emergency on Friday in reaction to the truck blockades in Ottawa and at the US border.based on an earlier comment, it seems like he wouldn't need to push for new legislation.
Premier Doug Ford said he would push for new legislation cracking down on anyone interfering with the flow of goods and people.
posted by bleary at 9:13 AM on February 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Here is a more detailed article: Ontario declares state of emergency, threatening fines and jail time to end blockade
The province of Ontario has invoked a state of emergency and says it will use the threat of hefty fines, jail time and vehicle licence seizures to end a blockade that has crippled trade between Canada and the United States.posted by bleary at 9:27 AM on February 11, 2022
it seems like he wouldn't need to push for new legislation
Yeah, that was never the case. Most people own shoes that are smarter than Doug Ford, hence that comment from him.
The province has and always had the ability to invoke a state of emergency and issue various orders under the Emergency Management and Civil Protection Act for a variety of reasons (it did this at the beginning of the pandemic, for example, to issue stay-at-home orders). Federally, there's the Emergency Measures Act (which replaced that War Measures Act, famously invoked by Trudeau Sr. during the FLQ crisis).
The Ambassador Bridge is situated in such a way that all of the approaches to it are municipal surface streets. Even the main route to it, Huron Church Road, is a municipal street, albeit a very wide multi-laned one. The major highway leading to it, the 401, peters out into Huron Church when you hit Windsor. This is likely the reason there's been a lot of punting back and forth between the feds, the province, and the municipal government of Windsor.
There's mounting pressure from the U.S. to deal with this blockade owing to its economic impact, and it's quite likely that some of Ford's biggest corporate benefactors were bringing the heat too, because this is impacting supply chains and import/export for all sorts of businesses in Ontario.
But as all of this was unfolding, Ford was too busy snowmobiling to take calls from the feds, apparently?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:46 AM on February 11, 2022 [5 favorites]
Yeah, that was never the case. Most people own shoes that are smarter than Doug Ford, hence that comment from him.
The province has and always had the ability to invoke a state of emergency and issue various orders under the Emergency Management and Civil Protection Act for a variety of reasons (it did this at the beginning of the pandemic, for example, to issue stay-at-home orders). Federally, there's the Emergency Measures Act (which replaced that War Measures Act, famously invoked by Trudeau Sr. during the FLQ crisis).
The Ambassador Bridge is situated in such a way that all of the approaches to it are municipal surface streets. Even the main route to it, Huron Church Road, is a municipal street, albeit a very wide multi-laned one. The major highway leading to it, the 401, peters out into Huron Church when you hit Windsor. This is likely the reason there's been a lot of punting back and forth between the feds, the province, and the municipal government of Windsor.
There's mounting pressure from the U.S. to deal with this blockade owing to its economic impact, and it's quite likely that some of Ford's biggest corporate benefactors were bringing the heat too, because this is impacting supply chains and import/export for all sorts of businesses in Ontario.
But as all of this was unfolding, Ford was too busy snowmobiling to take calls from the feds, apparently?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:46 AM on February 11, 2022 [5 favorites]
Cynically pointing out that they're saying that they are merely threatening to fine and jail, not actually fining and jailing.
posted by achrise at 9:52 AM on February 11, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by achrise at 9:52 AM on February 11, 2022 [5 favorites]
Cynically pointing out
Nah, that's not cynicism based on what we know about police sympathies. Just realism.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:00 AM on February 11, 2022 [5 favorites]
Nah, that's not cynicism based on what we know about police sympathies. Just realism.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:00 AM on February 11, 2022 [5 favorites]
@EvanLSolomon of CTV's Question Period tweeted:
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:18 AM on February 11, 2022 [5 favorites]
Breaking: Sources confirm to me that
@OmarAlghabra asked Ontario Min @C_Mulroney to invoke emergency measures to deal with blockades but she refused to do it. Days later PM and Premier spoke and today @fordnation declared state of emergency. It was refused since Monday #cdnpoli
11:23 AM · Feb 11, 2022
They've coached their kids to line up holding hands to block the bridge. ffs.
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:57 AM on February 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:57 AM on February 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
As lots of people have been pointing out, "Can you imagine what would happen to indigenous protesters if they did the same thing with their kids?"
3 Windsor schools shifting to online learning Friday over protest concerns
Huh. I thought "COVID RESTRICTIONS ARE DESTROYING OUR CHILDRENS' MENTAL HEALTH THEY MUST HAVE IN PERSON LEARNING" something something.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:07 PM on February 11, 2022 [5 favorites]
3 Windsor schools shifting to online learning Friday over protest concerns
Huh. I thought "COVID RESTRICTIONS ARE DESTROYING OUR CHILDRENS' MENTAL HEALTH THEY MUST HAVE IN PERSON LEARNING" something something.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:07 PM on February 11, 2022 [5 favorites]
Hypocrisy is a virtue for the Right: not only does it signify that power and justice will be deployed unevenly, but it also highlights which truths the speaker can get away with smugly ignoring.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:30 PM on February 11, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:30 PM on February 11, 2022 [7 favorites]
The global ‘freedom movement’ is a carnival of crank and conspiracy – and very dangerous
posted by fimbulvetr at 12:57 PM on February 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
Current r/ottawa megathread:
Sloly said resources again, DRINK!posted by sebastienbailard at 1:02 PM on February 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I've been watching the OPSB livestream. It is very disheartening.
posted by fimbulvetr at 1:07 PM on February 11, 2022
posted by fimbulvetr at 1:07 PM on February 11, 2022
Court grants injunction against Ambassador Bridge blockade: Specifics being determined, injunction will come into effect at 7 p.m. Friday
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:53 PM on February 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:53 PM on February 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
Interesting to note the language in both the State of Emergency invocation and the Ambassador Bridge injunction. Both track pretty closely to the definition of terrorism in Section 83.01 of the Criminal Code.
This is going to be quite interesting when it gets going. The windmills of our system may grind slowly, but they do grind exceedingly fine.
posted by rpfields at 2:31 PM on February 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
This is going to be quite interesting when it gets going. The windmills of our system may grind slowly, but they do grind exceedingly fine.
posted by rpfields at 2:31 PM on February 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
Please please please let the powers that be start treating the far right as the domestic terrorists they are.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:50 PM on February 11, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:50 PM on February 11, 2022 [3 favorites]
Okay, I think we have reached peak convoy.
posted by rpfields at 6:06 PM on February 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by rpfields at 6:06 PM on February 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
One positive outcome that we're seeing from the events in Ottawa is that authorities elsewhere are learning from it and being much more proactive about shutting down similar occupations in their own jurisdictions before they can get entrenched. I mean, I'm sure that's no comfort to the people of Ottawa, but it is a good thing in a big picture way.
posted by orange swan at 6:11 PM on February 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 6:11 PM on February 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
A little roundup from Twitter:
Trudeau: Barrage of 911 fake calls came from US (CBC News reporter)
Chemical irritants mailed to MPs (Andy Fillmore, MP for Halifax)
Stage built, let's have a concert (Canadian Politics Press reporter)
Porta-potties, stage, no police (CTV News host)
Ambassador Bridge crowds growing after injunction begins (City News reporter)
Ain't over yet, or close to it.
posted by delfin at 7:31 PM on February 11, 2022 [4 favorites]
Trudeau: Barrage of 911 fake calls came from US (CBC News reporter)
Chemical irritants mailed to MPs (Andy Fillmore, MP for Halifax)
Stage built, let's have a concert (Canadian Politics Press reporter)
Porta-potties, stage, no police (CTV News host)
Ambassador Bridge crowds growing after injunction begins (City News reporter)
Ain't over yet, or close to it.
posted by delfin at 7:31 PM on February 11, 2022 [4 favorites]
It's uncomfortable to even watch these goons nevermind stand up to them (CTV Ottawa).
And their paramilitary wannabee organizers are staying in hotels handing out cash. This feels very sinister.
posted by anthill at 8:21 PM on February 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
And their paramilitary wannabee organizers are staying in hotels handing out cash. This feels very sinister.
posted by anthill at 8:21 PM on February 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
[The words of]James Bauder, founder of Canada Unity and creator of the convoy that has been occupying Ottawa for more than a week.
This is Pat King.
So yeah, the Sturmabteilung is here, and partying unopposed.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:34 PM on February 11, 2022
This is Pat King.
So yeah, the Sturmabteilung is here, and partying unopposed.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:34 PM on February 11, 2022
Mod note: A few deleted. Removed a sort of confused and confusing offensive holocaust comparison thing, angry response, and (earnest) apology, and would like to remind folks to restrain impulses to call on the worst things one can think of to describe other things for rhetorical emphasis. ie calling being overcharged for something (for example) "rape," calling widespread criticism a "lynching," and referring to all sorts of things as analog to the process of systematic Jewish genocide in Europe during WWII. This is not saying "don't ever refer to this history." People can absolutely discuss current events in light of past atrocities, but using horrific intensifiers to command attention and forcefully demonstrate your (however righteous) anger is in itself a type of violence, and yet also a dilution of real atrocities ... with the cumulative effect suggesting that if X, Y, and Z are like the holocaust (for example), then perhaps the holocaust was actually a somewhat ordinary event. Maybe rape is just rather annoying. Maybe lynchings were/are just expressions of disagreement. This sort of attenuation serves only one side, so please, take a minute to think before over-reaching for dramatic emphasis!
posted by taz (staff) at 1:34 AM on February 12, 2022 [18 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 1:34 AM on February 12, 2022 [18 favorites]
In NZ the storm is getting worse tonight, the Speaker of the House has declared that Barry Manlow (and anti-covid PSAs) will be played loudly all night long. Reputedly FB is now stopping the protester's live streams because of copyright issues .....
posted by mbo at 2:07 AM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by mbo at 2:07 AM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
mbo, not that I doubt your word, but I had to see that for myself:
Covid 19 Omicron outbreak: Parliament protest - Speaker Trevor Mallard plays Barry Manilow, Macarena over loud speakers to deter crowd
posted by mumimor at 2:19 AM on February 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
Covid 19 Omicron outbreak: Parliament protest - Speaker Trevor Mallard plays Barry Manilow, Macarena over loud speakers to deter crowd
posted by mumimor at 2:19 AM on February 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
I am reaching the end of my tether.
OPP officer uses police cruiser as photo booth for protesters
posted by aclevername at 2:30 AM on February 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
OPP officer uses police cruiser as photo booth for protesters
posted by aclevername at 2:30 AM on February 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
"I hope they're not honking at me thinking I've arrested you or something."Imagine being a protest sympathizer cop and getting a beat down because the crowd thought your improvised photobooth was detaining fellow travelers. The irony meter would blow right off the wall.
posted by Mitheral at 5:48 AM on February 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
Looks like the injunction is being enforced in Windsor as of this morning. No reports of Barry Manilow.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:18 AM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:18 AM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
twitch feed from Windsor
At the moment, a remnant of protesters posturing in front of a line of cops.
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:24 AM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
At the moment, a remnant of protesters posturing in front of a line of cops.
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:24 AM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Ottawa Police announce a new strategy.
I wish satire were less realistic these days.
posted by rpfields at 9:31 AM on February 12, 2022
I wish satire were less realistic these days.
posted by rpfields at 9:31 AM on February 12, 2022
This may bring a different kind of smile to your faces. "They" are on their bank accounts.
Of course, it could just be an attempt to get more money from his followers.
posted by rpfields at 9:35 AM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Of course, it could just be an attempt to get more money from his followers.
posted by rpfields at 9:35 AM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
My vote would be that it's some Alex Jones-style grifting.
But related to this, maybe?
TD Bank freezes two accounts that received money for Canada protests
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:46 AM on February 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
But related to this, maybe?
TD Bank freezes two accounts that received money for Canada protests
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:46 AM on February 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
My vote would be that it's some Alex Jones-style grifting.
It could be both...
posted by rpfields at 10:02 AM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
It could be both...
posted by rpfields at 10:02 AM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Ottawa Police announce a new strategy.
Link goes to Beaverton: "Ottawa Police announce new strategy for dealing with ‘Freedom Convoy’ protestors: Unconditional Surrender"
And, right on cue:
Police moved in. One officer told a fence dismantler that protection of the memorial was now their responsibility.
posted by clawsoon at 10:34 AM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Link goes to Beaverton: "Ottawa Police announce new strategy for dealing with ‘Freedom Convoy’ protestors: Unconditional Surrender"
And, right on cue:
Police moved in. One officer told a fence dismantler that protection of the memorial was now their responsibility.
posted by clawsoon at 10:34 AM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Call: I just spoke with Windsor’s deputy police chief, Jason Bellaire, who says he’s “never experienced anything like this” in his 27 years in the force.
Response: In 2000 the Windsor police & other forces violently overwhelmed 2000-3000 people protesting the OAS conference in Windsor.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:46 AM on February 12, 2022 [6 favorites]
Response: In 2000 the Windsor police & other forces violently overwhelmed 2000-3000 people protesting the OAS conference in Windsor.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:46 AM on February 12, 2022 [6 favorites]
Meanwhile, on the West Coast: Convoy protesters break through Surrey RCMP barricade with military vehicle as others march to US border on foot. Unfortunately, no photo or description of said 'military vehicle' in this article.
posted by Rash at 4:22 PM on February 12, 2022
posted by Rash at 4:22 PM on February 12, 2022
military-style vehicle
Probably a H3 or H2 Humvee-style civilian vehicle. I saw a couple of them (one orange, one black) with the asshats two weeks ago.
posted by porpoise at 4:50 PM on February 12, 2022
Probably a H3 or H2 Humvee-style civilian vehicle. I saw a couple of them (one orange, one black) with the asshats two weeks ago.
posted by porpoise at 4:50 PM on February 12, 2022
Oh, heck, I wonder if it was this thing in Surrey, seen a few hours ago?
It's flying a Molon labe flag, and is just a modded semi.
posted by porpoise at 5:42 PM on February 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's flying a Molon labe flag, and is just a modded semi.
posted by porpoise at 5:42 PM on February 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Oh, heck, I wonder if it was this thing in Surrey, seen a few hours ago?
"You're wearing camo in the city, dude. I can see you."
posted by clawsoon at 6:03 PM on February 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
"You're wearing camo in the city, dude. I can see you."
posted by clawsoon at 6:03 PM on February 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
Twitter news about a new integrated command centre:
Robert Fife@RobertFifeposted by sebastienbailard at 8:19 PM on February 12, 2022
This is what Ontario government sources have said was coming. @OPSChiefSloly pushed aside to allow OPP/RCMP to take charge of 16 days of chaos in downtown Ottawa.
Wtf! Locals report that occupiers are testing using handcuffs to bar the doors of the apartment building at 360 McLeod:
1
2
3
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:09 PM on February 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
1
2
3
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:09 PM on February 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
a neighbor:
As the person who called the police, took the video that's circulating and spent the next two hours watching the door I did not see any police presence. I watched them leave without interacting with security or police.posted by sebastienbailard at 9:22 PM on February 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
How is this not terrorism?
posted by mumimor at 9:26 PM on February 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 9:26 PM on February 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Catherine McKenney (they/them)@cmckenney·5h
For anyone who still thinks this illegal occupation is ‘peaceful’ and that we have the ‘resources needed’ to end/control the occupation we now have both Centretown grocers shutting their doors because they are being swarmed by thugs.posted by sebastienbailard at 9:52 PM on February 12, 2022
current reddit megathread 54
u/Draic-Kin 7mposted by sebastienbailard at 9:59 PM on February 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Bylaw just called me back about my report and told me that OPS moved them out of the red zone and do not let them in until further notice. So, only the police are allowed here, not bylaw anymore.
For anyone who still thinks this illegal occupation is 'peaceful' and that we have the 'resources needed' to end/control the occupation
Just received this note that was sent to the people who live in the condos beside 360 McLeod, confirming that people did attempt to put handcuffs on the front door of 360 McLeod and police responded to the situation #cdnpoli #ottnews (CTV)
Holy sweet fk. 2400 guns from savage arms are (I guess missing/stolen?) in a trailer that OPP is now looking for. (Police radio feed, turned out to be piles of .22 long guns, no ammo)
A law enforcement source tells me two of the occupiers attempted to arrest Ottawa Police officers yesterday. They were rebuffed, obviously, but they are "getting more bold." (freelance journalist)
posted by delfin at 8:59 AM on February 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
Just received this note that was sent to the people who live in the condos beside 360 McLeod, confirming that people did attempt to put handcuffs on the front door of 360 McLeod and police responded to the situation #cdnpoli #ottnews (CTV)
Holy sweet fk. 2400 guns from savage arms are (I guess missing/stolen?) in a trailer that OPP is now looking for. (Police radio feed, turned out to be piles of .22 long guns, no ammo)
A law enforcement source tells me two of the occupiers attempted to arrest Ottawa Police officers yesterday. They were rebuffed, obviously, but they are "getting more bold." (freelance journalist)
posted by delfin at 8:59 AM on February 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
Now, is this going to end in a climactic gun battle on the streets of Ottawa, armies for both sides lined up and dying nobly for their cause, while a somber marching band plays the Hockey Night in Canada theme in the background?
No, I don't think so. 1/6 parallels come to mind; there are lots of angry people in these standoffs who are happy to be part of a larger mob standing up for Freedooooooom, but who aren't dead-enders and who aren't planning on violence and aren't interested in the "accepting consequences" part of civil disobedience. In their minds, it's supposed to go something more like this:
1) We show up
2) ...
3) The bad guys admit their guilt, they all resign, the mandates go away, Trudeau goes to jail, WE WIN
But there _are_ dead-enders involved in this. There are people whose open intent through all of this has been "we will remain, and do whatever is necessary, until Trudeau resigns and the government becomes conservative." Who believe that "have the Governor General replace the entire government" and "common law means we can simply replace the police with our own people and arrest the old police, even though the old police don't seem to be all that interested in dispersing and arresting us" are rational responses.
The government does not want lethal showdowns, because that feeds into the persecution complex of the hard right, SEE, SEE, WE JUST WANT OUR RIGHTS BACK AND THEY'RE KILLING US! So they're handling everyone in this with kid gloves, to a seemingly irrational degree. But just like the Oregon wildlife refuge siege of yore, there's always going to be a few hard-liners who would rather go out in a blaze of glory than accept anything less than total surrender.
And so we wait.
posted by delfin at 9:30 AM on February 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
No, I don't think so. 1/6 parallels come to mind; there are lots of angry people in these standoffs who are happy to be part of a larger mob standing up for Freedooooooom, but who aren't dead-enders and who aren't planning on violence and aren't interested in the "accepting consequences" part of civil disobedience. In their minds, it's supposed to go something more like this:
1) We show up
2) ...
3) The bad guys admit their guilt, they all resign, the mandates go away, Trudeau goes to jail, WE WIN
But there _are_ dead-enders involved in this. There are people whose open intent through all of this has been "we will remain, and do whatever is necessary, until Trudeau resigns and the government becomes conservative." Who believe that "have the Governor General replace the entire government" and "common law means we can simply replace the police with our own people and arrest the old police, even though the old police don't seem to be all that interested in dispersing and arresting us" are rational responses.
The government does not want lethal showdowns, because that feeds into the persecution complex of the hard right, SEE, SEE, WE JUST WANT OUR RIGHTS BACK AND THEY'RE KILLING US! So they're handling everyone in this with kid gloves, to a seemingly irrational degree. But just like the Oregon wildlife refuge siege of yore, there's always going to be a few hard-liners who would rather go out in a blaze of glory than accept anything less than total surrender.
And so we wait.
posted by delfin at 9:30 AM on February 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
Windsor blockade cleared after police deploy radical tactic of doing literally anything (satire from The Beaverton)
Many frustrated observers have noted that the protestors immediately folded and left in the face of even a bare minimum amount of police effort. However, officers insist the situation was always challenging.posted by eviemath at 9:46 AM on February 13, 2022 [16 favorites]
“The first complicating factor you have to understand is that these convoy protestors are very, very white,” noted one Windsor Police Officer. “That immediately reduces our ‘doing anything’ options down to about zero. But it turns out that using even a small fraction of our policing powers can work against even the whitest and truck-driving-est of suspects. You learn something new every day.”
So they're handling everyone in this with kid gloves, to a seemingly irrational degree.
The Oka crisis comes to mind here. One thing people seem to forget about Oka is that for all the coverage it got, for as long as it went on ... only two people died. One was a Quebec cop (possibly shot by his own side) at the very beginning of things. The other was an older First Nations man who died of a heart attack after being hit by a rock thrown by an angry resident (not at Oka but at the related Mercier Bridge blockade). My point being -- neither of these deaths directly involved the military who were the main non-First Nations players for the bulk of the crisis. Once they moved in, most of what went on constituted a stand-off. People were hurt on both sides in various incidents but overall, it could have been much much worse. Seems to be the Canadian way of doing things ...
posted by philip-random at 10:41 AM on February 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
The Oka crisis comes to mind here. One thing people seem to forget about Oka is that for all the coverage it got, for as long as it went on ... only two people died. One was a Quebec cop (possibly shot by his own side) at the very beginning of things. The other was an older First Nations man who died of a heart attack after being hit by a rock thrown by an angry resident (not at Oka but at the related Mercier Bridge blockade). My point being -- neither of these deaths directly involved the military who were the main non-First Nations players for the bulk of the crisis. Once they moved in, most of what went on constituted a stand-off. People were hurt on both sides in various incidents but overall, it could have been much much worse. Seems to be the Canadian way of doing things ...
posted by philip-random at 10:41 AM on February 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
The Beaverton is wandering through an orchard where the trees groan with the weight of low-hanging fruit these days.
Adrian Morrow: Bill Blair, who oversaw the largest mass arrests in Canadian history at the G20 — for which Toronto Police paid $16.5-million in a class-action lawsuit — says three weeks into the blockades, he’s in “serious discussions” about what to do
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:41 AM on February 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
Adrian Morrow: Bill Blair, who oversaw the largest mass arrests in Canadian history at the G20 — for which Toronto Police paid $16.5-million in a class-action lawsuit — says three weeks into the blockades, he’s in “serious discussions” about what to do
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:41 AM on February 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
Police break up remaining protest at Windsor's Ambassador Bridge, make 12 arrests: Twelve people were arrested when officers from multiple police forces advanced on Sunday morning to clear out the remaining protesters and break up a days-long occupation near the Ambassador Bridge border crossing in Windsor, Ont.
"Of those 12 arrests, there was no violence from the protesters and the officers did not have to use use of force," said Windsor police Sgt. Steve Betteridge.
Ah, the perquisites of Blockading While White.
Can't imagine the impetus for this had anything to do with getting leaned on by a country with a $750 billion military budget.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:02 PM on February 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
"Of those 12 arrests, there was no violence from the protesters and the officers did not have to use use of force," said Windsor police Sgt. Steve Betteridge.
Ah, the perquisites of Blockading While White.
Can't imagine the impetus for this had anything to do with getting leaned on by a country with a $750 billion military budget.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:02 PM on February 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
One thing people seem to forget about Oka is that for all the coverage it got, for as long as it went on ... only two people died.
To clarify, I am neither expecting nor calling for Frank Rizzo-style cracking of skulls here. The vast majority of these protesters have been nonviolent, have not brandished weapons, have engaged in physical intimidation but refrained from actual physical contact. These standoffs should not end up with a body count.
But I use 'kid gloves' to refer to the fact that this has gone on and on and on with minimal citations, let alone arrests, let alone efforts to restore some semblance of peace for the people who have been living in congested honking hell for a couple of weeks. It's almost as if, rather than somehow being caught off guard by the truckers doing precisely what and how they said they were going to do, far too many of them are openly on the truckers' side.
And if you doubt that, imagine if these truckers had been protesting climate change, or income inequality, or native rights, or the G20, or were blockading roads calling for immediate police reform. Blockading While White, indeed.
posted by delfin at 12:19 PM on February 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
To clarify, I am neither expecting nor calling for Frank Rizzo-style cracking of skulls here. The vast majority of these protesters have been nonviolent, have not brandished weapons, have engaged in physical intimidation but refrained from actual physical contact. These standoffs should not end up with a body count.
But I use 'kid gloves' to refer to the fact that this has gone on and on and on with minimal citations, let alone arrests, let alone efforts to restore some semblance of peace for the people who have been living in congested honking hell for a couple of weeks. It's almost as if, rather than somehow being caught off guard by the truckers doing precisely what and how they said they were going to do, far too many of them are openly on the truckers' side.
And if you doubt that, imagine if these truckers had been protesting climate change, or income inequality, or native rights, or the G20, or were blockading roads calling for immediate police reform. Blockading While White, indeed.
posted by delfin at 12:19 PM on February 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
It's confirmed that the "military style vehicle" is the one spotted in Surrey - it's a surplus Oshkosh M1070 and apparently it... just went around the RCMP blockade by taking the oncoming lane, not "breaking through" it.
posted by porpoise at 12:39 PM on February 13, 2022
posted by porpoise at 12:39 PM on February 13, 2022
So the police blockaded the road by... only blocking one lane?
posted by clawsoon at 2:22 PM on February 13, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 2:22 PM on February 13, 2022
And if you doubt that, imagine if these truckers had been protesting climate change, or income inequality, or native rights, or the G20, or were blockading roads calling for immediate police reform. Blockading While White, indeed.
Not that the race of the protestors has nothing to do with it, but I can easily imagine the police cracking skulls at an all-White climate change or income inequality or G20 protest.
Those progressive protestors want society to make sacrifices in the name of a long-term gain. The truck gangs want society to stop making sacrifices and risk the long-term loss. Much less threatening to power structures; much more compatible with human psychology.
The ascendant far right is dangerous because it makes people feel good about the worst parts of themselves.
posted by saturday_morning at 2:26 PM on February 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
Not that the race of the protestors has nothing to do with it, but I can easily imagine the police cracking skulls at an all-White climate change or income inequality or G20 protest.
Those progressive protestors want society to make sacrifices in the name of a long-term gain. The truck gangs want society to stop making sacrifices and risk the long-term loss. Much less threatening to power structures; much more compatible with human psychology.
The ascendant far right is dangerous because it makes people feel good about the worst parts of themselves.
posted by saturday_morning at 2:26 PM on February 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
Ottawans have given up on the police, setting up their own convoy blockade. Similarly, the mayor has cut a deal to move trucks out of residential areas, making it more of a federal government problem.
posted by cardboard at 3:52 PM on February 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by cardboard at 3:52 PM on February 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
Counter-protesters in Edmonton also set up a convoy blockade, but they were quickly moved out of the way by police.
posted by clawsoon at 4:02 PM on February 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 4:02 PM on February 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
Via National Meme Board of Canada: One guy cursing in Patois through a megaphone did more than Doug Ford has in a week.
I want to get this guy a louder megaphone.
posted by Capt. Renault at 4:07 PM on February 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
I want to get this guy a louder megaphone.
posted by Capt. Renault at 4:07 PM on February 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
I want to get this guy a louder megaphone.
It's amazing how flustered they were by one guy with a megaphone.
I wonder how many people in Ottawa have megaphones.
posted by clawsoon at 4:15 PM on February 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's amazing how flustered they were by one guy with a megaphone.
I wonder how many people in Ottawa have megaphones.
posted by clawsoon at 4:15 PM on February 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
> Ottawans have given up on the police, setting up their own convoy blockade.
I went down to Bank and Riverside around 4, with two boxes of Tim's coffee. The crowd did a good job of thwarting the buggers.
Next time I need warmer boots or warmer weather. It was -16C. One thoughtful woman had brought a small propane camp heater for people who needed to reheat their toes.
I'm trying to find a picture on Twitter, but all that's coming up is erotic foot models.
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:40 PM on February 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
I went down to Bank and Riverside around 4, with two boxes of Tim's coffee. The crowd did a good job of thwarting the buggers.
Next time I need warmer boots or warmer weather. It was -16C. One thoughtful woman had brought a small propane camp heater for people who needed to reheat their toes.
I'm trying to find a picture on Twitter, but all that's coming up is erotic foot models.
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:40 PM on February 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
Best sign was either "Make Ottawa Boring Again!", or "_I'd_ Fuck Trudeau".
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:46 PM on February 13, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:46 PM on February 13, 2022 [6 favorites]
The GiveSendGo fundraising site has been hacked and the entire list of donors to the convoy fundraiser has been leaked. The top donor at $90,000 was Thomas M. Siebel, a technology billionaire from the San Francisco Bay Area.
posted by Rumple at 7:43 PM on February 13, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by Rumple at 7:43 PM on February 13, 2022 [13 favorites]
r/ottawa megathread 56:
OneWhoWonders 12 minutes ago:posted by sebastienbailard at 7:43 PM on February 13, 2022 [7 favorites]
I know it is already mentioned a few other times, but the GiveSendGo site was hacked and temporarily redirected to
https://givesendgone.wtf/. It's worth a check, if just to check the CSV file there that includes the names, email addresses, postal or Zip codes and all the comments that these people left when donating to the convoy (some of which are very cringe). I had to check to see if my Dad was on this list since - sigh - he is a big supporter of the convoy and has already made his way downtown to 'protest' at least a couple of times now. (He's not on this list, thankfully)
Some interesting stats from that CSV - about 92000 people donated, but only about 36000 were Canadian. The vast majority were US based (~51500) and the remainder by other countries
I get an "account suspended" message when I go to givesendgone.wft. Hopefully someone mirrored it before it disappeared.
posted by clawsoon at 7:56 PM on February 13, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 7:56 PM on February 13, 2022
Here's a link to the CSV file of all ~100,000 donors.
posted by Rumple at 8:01 PM on February 13, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by Rumple at 8:01 PM on February 13, 2022 [8 favorites]
Most of the analysis and chat will take place outside of r/ottawa, to avoid potential libel/clusterfuck events.
But ...
QuestionKindly5288:
But ...
QuestionKindly5288:
Ottawa has more data nerds than GSG had donors. The infographics will be devastating.u/00365:
Bunch of beaurocratic nerds getting their hands on juicy DATAposted by sebastienbailard at 8:22 PM on February 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
theinkthepen:
You literally could not have given this information to a more appreciative city. Going through this spreadsheet to see who was stupid enough to use their work email is the most fun I've had in days.u/QuestionKindly5288:
I'm shadow boxing and screaming "PIVOT TABLES! HEATMAPS! PARETO!"posted by sebastienbailard at 8:27 PM on February 13, 2022 [6 favorites]
What's the over/under on how many corporate boards Tom Siebel will suddenly realize he's 'too busy' to be on by the end of the month?
posted by jamjam at 8:32 PM on February 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by jamjam at 8:32 PM on February 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
There's a Prof from the medical school(!) at my university on the list ... gave 100$ with the belligerent message "These donations had better end up supporting the truckers (btw, I gave to that corrupt GFM and hope I get the money back), I will personally go to Ottawa and give the truckers in the convoy my money. They are our nation's backbone and what they're doing to remove this mandate extends across all Canadians. Our freedoms and liberties depend on it!"
posted by Rumple at 8:41 PM on February 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Rumple at 8:41 PM on February 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
Just starting to listen in #FREEDOMCONVOY2022 audio twitter space conference call thing.
r/ottawa people state "they're starting to eat each other", "they're in crisis mode", "they're advising each other to get lawyers".
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:16 PM on February 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
r/ottawa people state "they're starting to eat each other", "they're in crisis mode", "they're advising each other to get lawyers".
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:16 PM on February 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
ffs.
Sam Hersh @SamHersh01 tweet:
Sam Hersh @SamHersh01 tweet:
Actual quote from @JimWatsonOttawa on @CBCNews: "I admire the gutsiness of the people who are standing up to those who want to break the law in our city but it takes scarce police resources away from those central communities that need that coverage and protection …”posted by sebastienbailard at 9:27 PM on February 13, 2022 [6 favorites]
How extremely out of touch do you have to be to see mass grassroots mobilization against the far-right and CONDEMN it.
Residents have been forced to stand up for themselves because of your lack of leadership @JimWatsonOttawa.
October 24th, 2022 can't come soon enough.
The Frozen-themed video message on the now-removed hack site "givesendgone" were captured and can be seen here.
posted by Rumple at 10:27 PM on February 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Rumple at 10:27 PM on February 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
The top donor at $90,000 was Thomas M. Siebel, a technology billionaire from the San Francisco Bay Area.
It's a standard clause in Oracle acquisitions that Larry Ellison gets your soul as part of the deal.
Quite a few of the top donors are easily identifiable given some quick Googling -- it's seriously surprising how many are using their work emails (or even ones from charitable orgs, wtf).
posted by quizzical at 4:36 AM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's a standard clause in Oracle acquisitions that Larry Ellison gets your soul as part of the deal.
Quite a few of the top donors are easily identifiable given some quick Googling -- it's seriously surprising how many are using their work emails (or even ones from charitable orgs, wtf).
posted by quizzical at 4:36 AM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Today's profile in courage: Watson tried to negotiate a deal with coorganizer Tamara Lich, wherein the occupiers would stay in the core and not bother the peripheral neighborhoods. Because fuck the residents of the downtown core, am I right?
Lich apparently agreed, then took the agreement to the other white supremacists/ antivaxxers/ antiflouridation enthusiasts / bouncy castle entrepreneurs, etc. who didn't think that would be any fun at all, and then denounced Watson.
Evan Solomon@EvanLSolomon·9h
Lich apparently agreed, then took the agreement to the other white supremacists/ antivaxxers/ antiflouridation enthusiasts / bouncy castle entrepreneurs, etc. who didn't think that would be any fun at all, and then denounced Watson.
Evan Solomon@EvanLSolomon·9h
Apparently Lich and other “leaders” rejected this offer. So Watson elevates them to negotiating partner, confers legitimacy on them (police are already back-channeling without this desperate overture) and in return gets nothing. As I was told, The Fiasco: Ottawa Edition continuesAnnie Bergeron Oliver@AnnieClaireBO · 16h
Breaking: Mayor Watson will meet with Convoy Organizer Tamara Lich on the “conditions for them to exit residential neighbourhoods.” Watson wants evidence of this before noon February 14. This agreement “was reached through backchannel negotiations.” See correspondence belowposted by sebastienbailard at 4:59 AM on February 14, 2022
Watson apparently forgot the other card in his hand, calling in the military and having them detained at gunpoint.
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:00 AM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:00 AM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
The csv file in question, apparently:
https://web.archive.org/web/20220214025230/https://givesendgone.wtf/
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:32 AM on February 14, 2022
https://web.archive.org/web/20220214025230/https://givesendgone.wtf/
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:32 AM on February 14, 2022
No, no, no, that's not an available play, how would it look?
White mayor calls on white military to raise weapons against white citizens of a white colonizer country in the nation's capitol?
Pffft. That spits in the face of everything Canada stands for!
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:33 AM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
White mayor calls on white military to raise weapons against white citizens of a white colonizer country in the nation's capitol?
Pffft. That spits in the face of everything Canada stands for!
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:33 AM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Top twenty .edu domains in email addresses in that list:
It should be noted that Canada doesn't use .edu addresses so our education related email addresses won't be easily visually grepped like the US addresses.
posted by Mitheral at 5:35 AM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Two people in my building in the middle of queertown in downtown Toronto donated. Annoying, but not surprising. Some people do vote conservative here. Just not very many. (My building, like many residential complexes in Canada, has a postal code of its own.)
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:07 AM on February 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:07 AM on February 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
Rumblings this morning ahead of First Minister's meeting that Trudeau called - the Emergencies Act is going to be invoked
posted by nubs at 7:55 AM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by nubs at 7:55 AM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
I think a a significant proportion of those GoFundMe names are fake. My mom was briefly fooled into thinking the Freedom Convoy had a point because the epidemiologist David Fisman donated so much but that was not actually him. And as a millennial Canadian, 90210 was definitely the zip code I used anytime I needed to provide one.
posted by carolr at 7:59 AM on February 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by carolr at 7:59 AM on February 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
This is about to get very real for some folks. Lich was on Twitter late last night after the disavowal saying that her deal was at the municipal level and it still held, even though the larger protest was still on as it was against the feds. Watson keeps saying she has until noon today to show movement.
If nothing moves, this shows that even the leadership can’t control the occupation, which paves the way for federal authorities. It seems that we might finally be getting some of that coordinated strategy we want to see.
I attended a counterprotest yesterday where a few hundred residents kettled a few pickups for about nine hours and only let them go when they removed their flags and other insignia. Interestingly, one of the nastiest leaders put out an emergency call for reinforcements to come stop us and…cricket chirp. So, cracks are forming.
We live in interesting times.
posted by rpfields at 8:08 AM on February 14, 2022 [15 favorites]
If nothing moves, this shows that even the leadership can’t control the occupation, which paves the way for federal authorities. It seems that we might finally be getting some of that coordinated strategy we want to see.
I attended a counterprotest yesterday where a few hundred residents kettled a few pickups for about nine hours and only let them go when they removed their flags and other insignia. Interestingly, one of the nastiest leaders put out an emergency call for reinforcements to come stop us and…cricket chirp. So, cracks are forming.
We live in interesting times.
posted by rpfields at 8:08 AM on February 14, 2022 [15 favorites]
What a surprise there's a donor with a Correctional Service Canada email address.
posted by scruss at 8:22 AM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by scruss at 8:22 AM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think a a significant proportion of those GoFundMe names are fake.
The hacked data is from GiveSendGo, rather than GoFundMe. but some caution in interpretation with such things is always warranted, of course.
posted by eviemath at 8:22 AM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
The hacked data is from GiveSendGo, rather than GoFundMe. but some caution in interpretation with such things is always warranted, of course.
posted by eviemath at 8:22 AM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
RCMP have arrested 11 people at Coutts, seizing 13 long guns, handguns, body armour, a machete, and large quantities of ammunition. The arrests come after RCMP got word that there was a well armed group inside the protest willing to use force against the cops.
posted by nubs at 10:07 AM on February 14, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by nubs at 10:07 AM on February 14, 2022 [9 favorites]
"they're advising each other to get lawyers".
I think a significant source of problems for many of the truck drivers will be the private injunction filed by Zexi Li and her lawyer Paul Champ. From Sunday (Feb13):
posted by bonehead at 10:16 AM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
I think a significant source of problems for many of the truck drivers will be the private injunction filed by Zexi Li and her lawyer Paul Champ. From Sunday (Feb13):
Champ said his team has been collecting video evidence of specific trucks and their licence plates and is considering other legal options that could be raised at the next court hearing on Wednesday.Down the line, this might get expensive for some individuals. The total suit is for about $10M.
They include moving forward with civil contempt proceedings and asking the court to issue arrest warrants for specific people. Champ admitted that would require officers to once again step in.
posted by bonehead at 10:16 AM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
The handguns being there is an extreme offense. [Generally hand guns are only allowed in locked storage at home or range or transported directly between those places or a licenced firearms dealer or mechanic] Someone(s) are likely to permanently lose their firearms licence for restricted weapons and possibly for long guns as well.
posted by Mitheral at 10:18 AM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 10:18 AM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Can you imagine what the penalty would have been for any Black-Canadian teenager who was arrested with even a legally-processed (if not carried) handgun at the BLM protests on the Hill last summer?
posted by bonehead at 10:20 AM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 10:20 AM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
Someone(s) are likely to permanently lose their firearms licence for restricted weapons and possibly for long guns as well.
I'm honestly wondering if any of them had a firearms licence to begin with.
posted by nubs at 10:29 AM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm honestly wondering if any of them had a firearms licence to begin with.
posted by nubs at 10:29 AM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I thought it was very interesting that the Mayor of Windsor mentioned last night that it was a bomb threat to the protest site that determined the timing for the police to go hands-on.
I am sure they are getting several of those per hour at the Hill, so it is only a matter of choosing to consider one of them “credible” and they have their justification.
posted by rpfields at 10:38 AM on February 14, 2022
I am sure they are getting several of those per hour at the Hill, so it is only a matter of choosing to consider one of them “credible” and they have their justification.
posted by rpfields at 10:38 AM on February 14, 2022
Trucks moving from residential streets to the front of the Parliament buildings. While packing them in will make them harder to tow, this is good news for local residents and reduces the space for pedestrians to get into the hot zone.
posted by rpfields at 10:45 AM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by rpfields at 10:45 AM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Looks like DAVID SLABODKIN, director of the Nourish and Develop Foundation, took down the staff directory after his name came up in the GiveSendGo hack:
https://web.archive.org/web/20220214042248/https://www.tndf.ca/our-team/
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:09 AM on February 14, 2022
https://web.archive.org/web/20220214042248/https://www.tndf.ca/our-team/
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:09 AM on February 14, 2022
Can you imagine what the penalty would have been for any Black-Canadian teenager who was arrested with even a legally-processed (if not carried) handgun at the BLM protests on the Hill last summer?
Not to mention the numerous, recorded instances (usually self-recorded) of organizers and various key figures in the current occupations calling for, in no particular order: the "arrest" or outright assassination of elected officials or public health officials, a violent overthrow of the sitting government, the establishment of a white ethno-state, praising the Holocaust denial of David Irving, etc.
They've put this out there themselves, and the official response is a collective shrug.
In the GiveSendGo data dump, there are a few entries in the donation comments field that roughly say "It's wrong to say this is a racist protest we just want our freedoms," blah blah blah then a few rows down there's a call to arms of the "we must stop the globalist homosexual agenda" flavour.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:22 AM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
Not to mention the numerous, recorded instances (usually self-recorded) of organizers and various key figures in the current occupations calling for, in no particular order: the "arrest" or outright assassination of elected officials or public health officials, a violent overthrow of the sitting government, the establishment of a white ethno-state, praising the Holocaust denial of David Irving, etc.
They've put this out there themselves, and the official response is a collective shrug.
In the GiveSendGo data dump, there are a few entries in the donation comments field that roughly say "It's wrong to say this is a racist protest we just want our freedoms," blah blah blah then a few rows down there's a call to arms of the "we must stop the globalist homosexual agenda" flavour.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:22 AM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
Walking Eagle News [satire]: RCMP to take a few days off from coddling 'freedom' blockades, visit pipeline protest and blow off some steam
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:18 PM on February 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:18 PM on February 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
Trudeau takes questions on the Emergency Act
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:05 PM on February 14, 2022
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:05 PM on February 14, 2022
A little late but if your choice in your "Which Side Will The New York Times Editorial Board Support" pool was "The Fascists," congratulations!
(Yes, the link is to an NYT Opinions tweet which contains a link to the editorial, just so you can see them being pilloried in the replies. Found via CBC Pitchbot, in much the same spirit as the abovementioned Walking Eagle News.)
posted by hangashore at 1:06 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
(Yes, the link is to an NYT Opinions tweet which contains a link to the editorial, just so you can see them being pilloried in the replies. Found via CBC Pitchbot, in much the same spirit as the abovementioned Walking Eagle News.)
posted by hangashore at 1:06 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
LIVE: Truckers Emergency Meeting Twitter Audio Chat
No clear ideas how they're going to deal with losing their trucks, their insurance, their bank accounts, and having the rcmp enforce bylaw.
Oh, and tow trucks can be forced to tow these fuckers.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:26 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
No clear ideas how they're going to deal with losing their trucks, their insurance, their bank accounts, and having the rcmp enforce bylaw.
Oh, and tow trucks can be forced to tow these fuckers.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:26 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Just getting in here before the weird hot takes of the U.S. media take hold (including the NYT), i.e., "CANADA SUSPENDS CIVIL LIBERTIES."
If you're a Canadian lawyer, feel free to correct this here non-lawyer, but as I understand it, the Emergencies Act is quite literally subject to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It's right in the act itself:
"....the Governor in Council, in taking such special temporary measures, would be subject to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Canadian Bill of Rights and must have regard to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, particularly with respect to those fundamental rights that are not to be limited or abridged even in a national emergency..."
The War Measures Act it ain't, and this wasn't a "just watch me" moment. It was more of a "follow the money moment," if I followed the press conference correctly?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:36 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
If you're a Canadian lawyer, feel free to correct this here non-lawyer, but as I understand it, the Emergencies Act is quite literally subject to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It's right in the act itself:
"....the Governor in Council, in taking such special temporary measures, would be subject to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Canadian Bill of Rights and must have regard to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, particularly with respect to those fundamental rights that are not to be limited or abridged even in a national emergency..."
The War Measures Act it ain't, and this wasn't a "just watch me" moment. It was more of a "follow the money moment," if I followed the press conference correctly?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:36 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
LIVE: Truckers Emergency Meeting Twitter Audio Chat
OMG this is hilarious, they are discussing how to get around the finance regulations and have concluded that it is no big deal to just cross the border and open up a business....so far nobody has pointed out that they are conspiring to break the law.
And, of course, they are being mercilessly trolled by the #RamRanchRebellion every few minutes.
Somebody keeps asking who "Finnegan" is.
We are living in a bad Monty Python Skit.
posted by rpfields at 3:51 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
OMG this is hilarious, they are discussing how to get around the finance regulations and have concluded that it is no big deal to just cross the border and open up a business....so far nobody has pointed out that they are conspiring to break the law.
And, of course, they are being mercilessly trolled by the #RamRanchRebellion every few minutes.
Somebody keeps asking who "Finnegan" is.
We are living in a bad Monty Python Skit.
posted by rpfields at 3:51 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
I spent approximately two minutes listening to that chat. I heard this, and have transcribed it verbatim:
"I feel like we really need to circle back on how we institute a new government..."
"Yeah, yeah... attorney general, governor general, lieutenant, we can't...I don't know all the generals?"
[...]
"Look at the minds we've got doing here. It's shouldn't be too hard to take this thing over."
Then, someone popped in: "I think you need some more bukkake in here."
"GET HIM OUT OF HERE."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:57 PM on February 14, 2022 [12 favorites]
"I feel like we really need to circle back on how we institute a new government..."
"Yeah, yeah... attorney general, governor general, lieutenant, we can't...I don't know all the generals?"
[...]
"Look at the minds we've got doing here. It's shouldn't be too hard to take this thing over."
Then, someone popped in: "I think you need some more bukkake in here."
"GET HIM OUT OF HERE."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:57 PM on February 14, 2022 [12 favorites]
"I think you need some more bukkake in here."
I'm impressed they know what that means...
posted by rpfields at 4:00 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm impressed they know what that means...
posted by rpfields at 4:00 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Also: "It can't be that hard to incorporate your own insurance company."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:01 PM on February 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:01 PM on February 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
"...they are discussing how to get around the finance regulations and have concluded that it is no big deal to just cross the border and open up a business..."
OK, sure. I believe they'll find it somewhat difficult when they go to buy gas and their debit and company cards don't work.
Hey, you said you weren't leaving, and boy did you get that right.
posted by Capt. Renault at 4:02 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
OK, sure. I believe they'll find it somewhat difficult when they go to buy gas and their debit and company cards don't work.
Hey, you said you weren't leaving, and boy did you get that right.
posted by Capt. Renault at 4:02 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
"I feel like we really need to circle back on how we institute a new government..."
Do they or don't they get that this is exactly why people were angry at the MOU?
posted by clawsoon at 4:04 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Do they or don't they get that this is exactly why people were angry at the MOU?
posted by clawsoon at 4:04 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
"I need $10 million in liability and there's like 700 trucks!"
"Tamara only has a million and she's spent a lot of it on cocktails!"
"If we band together that would be like socialism."
"I want my son to grow up a pureblood, I'm not going to have the government chemically castrate him with the jab."
posted by rpfields at 4:04 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
"Tamara only has a million and she's spent a lot of it on cocktails!"
"If we band together that would be like socialism."
"I want my son to grow up a pureblood, I'm not going to have the government chemically castrate him with the jab."
posted by rpfields at 4:04 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
I tried to listen for a couple of minutes and couldn't take the emotional tension. I will continue to rely on the rest of you for summaries of the most interesting bits.
posted by clawsoon at 4:13 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 4:13 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Somebody just tried to explain insurance and the consequences of the Emergency Act for their ability to go to the US and got cut off with "We don't need any more truth!!! We've had enough truth!!!"
"We know we've got the thinkers, we know we've got the brains..."
posted by rpfields at 4:15 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
"We know we've got the thinkers, we know we've got the brains..."
posted by rpfields at 4:15 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Someone who has stated she is First Nations and not a supporter is speaking and laying out some truths - that their license plates have been recorded, likely shared with the US Dept of Homeland Security, that they will likely be unable to enter the US even if they do keep their trucks.
She gets cut off by someone else who doesn't like what she's saying. Someone else points out that they may not like it, but that it is the truth.
"I don't want to hear any other ideas about the truth" someone says. Someone else on the verge of tears asks if they can sing again...and Ram Ranch starts playing.
I can't tell who is sincere, who is a troll, and what's real in here. (rpfields and I are overlapping here I think)
posted by nubs at 4:15 PM on February 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
She gets cut off by someone else who doesn't like what she's saying. Someone else points out that they may not like it, but that it is the truth.
"I don't want to hear any other ideas about the truth" someone says. Someone else on the verge of tears asks if they can sing again...and Ram Ranch starts playing.
I can't tell who is sincere, who is a troll, and what's real in here. (rpfields and I are overlapping here I think)
posted by nubs at 4:15 PM on February 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
"What are we doing with our trucks tonight? Where's Pat King? And what's the first order of business when we get the government for ourselves?"
posted by nubs at 4:17 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by nubs at 4:17 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
She was trying to explain, in a very level tone, the powers of DHS and how they could end up barred from the U.S. and they didn't like that.
I tapped out at "We don't need any more truth!!!"
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:17 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
I tapped out at "We don't need any more truth!!!"
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:17 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
"First order of business - can we ban broccoli? I hate broccoli!"
posted by nubs at 4:18 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by nubs at 4:18 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
"We're here to talk about our charter rights, not fucking vegetables."
"But I really hate broccoli."
"Hot dogs rule."
"We're a democracy in action guys."
posted by philip-random at 4:20 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
"But I really hate broccoli."
"Hot dogs rule."
"We're a democracy in action guys."
posted by philip-random at 4:20 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
I also had to bail. Am now listening to "Mainstream Media and the Freedom Convoy," which is a serious one and pretty interesting, at least in these first few minutes.
posted by rpfields at 4:20 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by rpfields at 4:20 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
"We had no idea that this was the sort of thing that could happen!" -someone discussing the possibility of bank accounts being seized.
They believe they have the cops, just need to get the GG to dismiss Trudeau or "whatever it is she does"
"But the GG hasn't said anything since this started - maybe we should leave, can't live or work without a bank account!"
"First order of business, let's start our own bank"
posted by nubs at 4:22 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
They believe they have the cops, just need to get the GG to dismiss Trudeau or "whatever it is she does"
"But the GG hasn't said anything since this started - maybe we should leave, can't live or work without a bank account!"
"First order of business, let's start our own bank"
posted by nubs at 4:22 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
"You can't start your own bank, man."
"If you read the protocols of Zion, it's where it all starts is with this banking. I've met some really intelligent people up here and ummm ... "
posted by philip-random at 4:22 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
"If you read the protocols of Zion, it's where it all starts is with this banking. I've met some really intelligent people up here and ummm ... "
posted by philip-random at 4:22 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
"so unless you have a plan to overthrow the government tomorrow, I say we all get out of here."
posted by philip-random at 4:23 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 4:23 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
They are now suggested covering plates with duck tape and/or snow
But someone who I think was serious was saying that if they (the leadership) doesn't have a plan for overthrowing the government tomorrow, that they were leaving. And then he reveals himself as a Ram Ranch guy.
"We have the Navy!"
People have had it with all the ramming.
posted by nubs at 4:24 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
But someone who I think was serious was saying that if they (the leadership) doesn't have a plan for overthrowing the government tomorrow, that they were leaving. And then he reveals himself as a Ram Ranch guy.
"We have the Navy!"
People have had it with all the ramming.
posted by nubs at 4:24 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
"I've had it up to here with this ramming."
posted by philip-random at 4:25 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 4:25 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
"All this ramming is a huge pain in the ass lately"
posted by nubs at 4:25 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by nubs at 4:25 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
"First order of business, let's start our own bank"
Strong callback to Bible Bill Aberhart there.
posted by clawsoon at 4:25 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Strong callback to Bible Bill Aberhart there.
posted by clawsoon at 4:25 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
"If you read the protocols of Zion, it's where it all starts is with this banking. I've met some really intelligent people up here and ummm ... "
*takes a drink*
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:27 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
*takes a drink*
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:27 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
Someone asking if there is a plan to take back control of their own labour, and determining their own labour rights. I suspect this is a plant getting them to agree to labour rights.
posted by nubs at 4:27 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by nubs at 4:27 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
Sorry, it took me a minute to realize that that first twitter space was 90%trolls, hosted by trolls.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:28 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:28 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
"I told you to stop with the ramming and the fucking ranch"
posted by nubs at 4:29 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by nubs at 4:29 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
this twitter space is mostly white supremacists and associated lunatic fringe
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:30 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:30 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Someone just asked if the government was imposing marital law (as opposed to martial)
I don't know if there's anyone legit in here or if its a bunch of people trolling right now.
posted by nubs at 4:31 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
I don't know if there's anyone legit in here or if its a bunch of people trolling right now.
posted by nubs at 4:31 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
Seems like it started legit and then got completely overrun from what I've read elsewhere, so it's just trolls trolling trolls?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:42 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:42 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think so - anyone who seems serious eventually says or does something that makes me think they are just trolling in a room full of trolls, and if there is a real conversation happening somewhere, it's a bit better protected.
posted by nubs at 4:45 PM on February 14, 2022
posted by nubs at 4:45 PM on February 14, 2022
Please, please keep live-commenting when you find a new chat that doesn’t seem to be only trolls. This is the comic relief I need tonight, but I don’t have the patience to listen to them myself.
posted by eviemath at 4:46 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by eviemath at 4:46 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Buzzfeed's Paul McLeod' Twitter thread:
3h • 12 tweets • 2 min readposted by sebastienbailard at 4:47 PM on February 14, 2022
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau just started his press conference where he is expected to envoke the Emergencies Act.
“This is not a peaceful protest,” he says.
Trudeau says he has envoked the Emergencies Act for the first time ever, in order to give law enforcement more power.
Trudeau says the measures will be time limited, geographically targeted, reasonable and proportionate.
New law enforcement powers include expanded authority to impose fines or imprisonment.
The government will designate border crossings and airports as critical infrastructure.
Other tools include prohibiting using goods or funds to support the protests.
Trudeau says he is not limiting freedom of speech or the right to protest. Also, no troops: “We’re not using the Emergencies Act to call in the military."
Trudeau says that people still have the right to peacefully protest and assemble, but the protests have gone beyond that.
“The Act is to be used sparingly and as a last resort. Right now, the situation requires additional tools not held by any other… law."
“These blockades are illegal. And if you’re participating, the time to go home is now.”
Trudeau says border agents are turning away Americans trying to come up and take part in blockades.
“I know people are frustrated. I hear it. You have the right to voice your frustration, even your anger at governbment policies… but blocking streets and critical infrastructure, and depriving your neighbors of their freedom, is a totally different matter. It’s time to stop."
Of course hanging over all this is that Trudeau’s father, former PM Pierre Elliott Trudeau used the War Measures Act, a precurser to the current law, and called in the army during the October Crisis of 1970.
Whoa, the government is extending terrorist funding laws to crowdfunding campaigns.
As of today, crowdfunding companies must register with Fintrac (the government body that monitors the flow of money to monitor criminal financing) and report suspicious payments.
Banks are being empowered to freeze funds they believe is flowing to trucker blockades. They will be freed of civil liability for such freezes.
If your truck is used in blockades your corporate accounts will be frozen and your vehicle insurance will be suspended, says deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland.
• • •
Meanwhile, the New York Times just issued this: Correction: An earlier tweet incorrectly suggested that Trudeau would temporarily suspend civil liberties. We deleted the incorrect tweet.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:48 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:48 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Also, RCMP will be enforcing laws and bylaw here in Ottawa, and I think bitcoin processors may get locked down.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:49 PM on February 14, 2022
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:49 PM on February 14, 2022
"we can't be like them - we can't be cancelling vegetables"
then some woman orders a frosty, a baconator and 18 cowboys
i'm fully convinced that some of these people are you guys
posted by pyramid termite at 4:56 PM on February 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
then some woman orders a frosty, a baconator and 18 cowboys
i'm fully convinced that some of these people are you guys
posted by pyramid termite at 4:56 PM on February 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
although all this talk about you're born a christian and learning is not good ... no, you couldn't be that stupid
posted by pyramid termite at 4:58 PM on February 14, 2022
posted by pyramid termite at 4:58 PM on February 14, 2022
‘It was too easy’: How a spy from the Ram Ranch resistance infiltrated and seized anti-vax trucker chat rooms
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:01 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:01 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
They would've been better off with actual CB radios...
posted by clawsoon at 5:09 PM on February 14, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 5:09 PM on February 14, 2022
Cripes it looks like everything on the table (in the image of the second Coutts link) with the possible exception of the three hunting rifles on the left end are prohibited weapons.
posted by Mitheral at 5:19 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Mitheral at 5:19 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Reminds me of how the CIA was able to infiltrate and overthrow democratic governments in Iran and Guatemala because they were open societies and thus vulnerable to what you could call CIA trolling.
posted by clawsoon at 5:29 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 5:29 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Ok, enough rambling psychopaths ,(white supremacists/ antivaxxers/ americans). Topics: ubi, fatherless households, trump, paper ballots, fleeing the country, vaccination, voter id, oxycotin, having their bank accounts, "people from 'elite' families without consciences", and, hint-hint laying rice and canned goods against participating in lightly hinted violent uprising.
Back to the troll cast.
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:38 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Back to the troll cast.
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:38 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Further updates from Coutts - truckers are leaving the blockade, rattled by the arrests and threats of violence.
It's almost like the police doing anything is better than them doing nothing.
posted by nubs at 5:40 PM on February 14, 2022 [9 favorites]
It's almost like the police doing anything is better than them doing nothing.
posted by nubs at 5:40 PM on February 14, 2022 [9 favorites]
Paul McCloud listened in on one of the Zello channels, which seemed like it was 50% truckers and 50% rams. 100% hilarious.
I have to admit that I get sadder and sadder the more that I read it. I don't know why, exactly. Something about the trolling gave me bullying vibes.
Protesting is kind of like war, in that someone on your side is virtually guaranteed to do something you don't like. I guess counter-protesting is the same.
posted by clawsoon at 5:46 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have to admit that I get sadder and sadder the more that I read it. I don't know why, exactly. Something about the trolling gave me bullying vibes.
Protesting is kind of like war, in that someone on your side is virtually guaranteed to do something you don't like. I guess counter-protesting is the same.
posted by clawsoon at 5:46 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
→
Forgetting - or perhaps letting slip that they're vaccinated - that they can't get over the border without proof of vaccination
posted by scruss at 5:46 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
they are discussing how to get around the finance regulations and have concluded that it is no big deal to just cross the border
Forgetting - or perhaps letting slip that they're vaccinated - that they can't get over the border without proof of vaccination
posted by scruss at 5:46 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
It is actually surprisingly easy to start a bank or a mutual insurance company. But, like, you do need a few lawyers, and money to capitalize it, and to comply with a whole thicket of regulations. None of which feels like these yahoos can manage. (I mean, they probably have the cash, or could get it from selling their trucks/houses/vacation homes ... but they're not going to trust each other with cash.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:53 PM on February 14, 2022
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:53 PM on February 14, 2022
>
Forgetting - or perhaps letting slip that they're vaccinated - that they can't get over the border without proof of vaccination
They need insurance to move their trucks.
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:59 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Forgetting - or perhaps letting slip that they're vaccinated - that they can't get over the border without proof of vaccination
They need insurance to move their trucks.
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:59 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
It is actually surprisingly easy to start a bank or a mutual insurance company.
My - mostly unfounded - impression is that it's somewhat more difficult in Canada, which is why we only have five major banks (or four or six or however many it is now).
posted by clawsoon at 6:01 PM on February 14, 2022
My - mostly unfounded - impression is that it's somewhat more difficult in Canada, which is why we only have five major banks (or four or six or however many it is now).
posted by clawsoon at 6:01 PM on February 14, 2022
It is actually surprisingly easy to start a bank or a mutual insurance company.
A Schedule I bank in Canada? Ha. No.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:02 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
A Schedule I bank in Canada? Ha. No.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:02 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
A credit union or caisse populaire would be a bit easier, though.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:04 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:04 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Apparently it got easier somewhere around 2002? I'm way out of my depth here...
posted by clawsoon at 6:05 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 6:05 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
" inflitratiors in the insurrection, ah protest"
(unintelligible)
"...this is not an insurrection"
(unintelligible)
posted by clavdivs at 6:28 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
(unintelligible)
"...this is not an insurrection"
(unintelligible)
posted by clavdivs at 6:28 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Paul McCloud listened in on one of the Zello channels
posted by clawsoon at 6:43 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
There’s lots of talk of needing money. “None of us know how to use that goddamn bitcoin,” says one guy.A dream that someone had in 2008 just died.
posted by clawsoon at 6:43 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
"A Schedule I bank in Canada? Ha. No."
Yeah, doesn't have to be Schedule I. (And by "easy" I still mean "literal team of lawyers.") But starting even a little-bitty financial or insurance company (or, hey, rural utility co-op) takes these jerks trusting each other with money, which they don't.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:03 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yeah, doesn't have to be Schedule I. (And by "easy" I still mean "literal team of lawyers.") But starting even a little-bitty financial or insurance company (or, hey, rural utility co-op) takes these jerks trusting each other with money, which they don't.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:03 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm guessing it gets slightly harder if the whole reason you want to start a bank is to avoid having the government apply its laws to you...
posted by clawsoon at 7:09 PM on February 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 7:09 PM on February 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
trusting each other with money
Plus a shitload of background checks. I'm not disagreeing, but I brushed up against financial work, and lemme tell you, they look way back.
posted by valkane at 7:09 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Plus a shitload of background checks. I'm not disagreeing, but I brushed up against financial work, and lemme tell you, they look way back.
posted by valkane at 7:09 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
You know, unless you're Jared Kushner.
posted by valkane at 7:10 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by valkane at 7:10 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I was totally clean BTW. Just wanted to get that out there.
posted by valkane at 7:14 PM on February 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by valkane at 7:14 PM on February 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
these jerks trusting each other with money, which they don't
Hah. That's just it. Even if none of the above applied, if I were a fraudster, this is exactly the group I would approach with a "People's Bank For Freedom," "Freedom Convoy Credit Union," or "Caisse Populaire des Camionneurs" pitch.
I'm sure that once the ramifications of banks' responses to the federal directives under the Emergency Act start to bite, there'll be a few people ready and waiting to make such a pitch to people who find themselves recently de-banked as a result. And they'll vanish with the funds.
I was totally clean BTW.
Oh, same here. Just sayin' that if I were a grifter...
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:36 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Hah. That's just it. Even if none of the above applied, if I were a fraudster, this is exactly the group I would approach with a "People's Bank For Freedom," "Freedom Convoy Credit Union," or "Caisse Populaire des Camionneurs" pitch.
I'm sure that once the ramifications of banks' responses to the federal directives under the Emergency Act start to bite, there'll be a few people ready and waiting to make such a pitch to people who find themselves recently de-banked as a result. And they'll vanish with the funds.
I was totally clean BTW.
Oh, same here. Just sayin' that if I were a grifter...
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:36 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Fox saying violence is something the convoy should consider.
Hannity: If this turns into something else because he’s sending people in there to directly confront them, I can’t guarantee that people won’t defend themselves. -- acyn on twitter
Finally Fox has found a Caravan that they can love.
posted by valkane at 7:38 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
Hannity: If this turns into something else because he’s sending people in there to directly confront them, I can’t guarantee that people won’t defend themselves. -- acyn on twitter
Finally Fox has found a Caravan that they can love.
posted by valkane at 7:38 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
If this turns into something else because he’s sending people in there to directly confront them
Context: he's interviewing Ezra Levant here. The equivalent would be a Canadian news outlet interviewing Nick Fuentes for his thoughts on the January 6 insurrection.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:46 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Context: he's interviewing Ezra Levant here. The equivalent would be a Canadian news outlet interviewing Nick Fuentes for his thoughts on the January 6 insurrection.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:46 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Well, unsurprisingly my family's right-wing Make Canada Great Again cousin is in the GiveSendGo list. God dammit. Nice to get confirmation, at least.
Of the nominally 8.4 million dollars in the leaked dump, my gut impression of it is most are real people. How far down the fascist pipeline they are I don't know, but if you rushed to donate *after* the GoFundMe got shut down, you knew what you were donating for (if not to :D)
posted by anthill at 7:51 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Of the nominally 8.4 million dollars in the leaked dump, my gut impression of it is most are real people. How far down the fascist pipeline they are I don't know, but if you rushed to donate *after* the GoFundMe got shut down, you knew what you were donating for (if not to :D)
posted by anthill at 7:51 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
On Toronto's Metro Morning just now, the phone call to Minister of Emergency Preparedness Bill Blair just failed partway through the conversation.
Seems like his phone didn't have very good emergency preparedness...
posted by clawsoon at 4:18 AM on February 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
Seems like his phone didn't have very good emergency preparedness...
posted by clawsoon at 4:18 AM on February 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
Following the hacking, some donors in my hometown (Niagara peninsula) have been outed, and their names are making the rounds. They are, of course, the usual suspects.
So, this is trickling down to the local level well outside any protest site.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:05 AM on February 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
So, this is trickling down to the local level well outside any protest site.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:05 AM on February 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
Hannity: If this turns into something else because he’s sending people in there to directly confront them, I can’t guarantee that people won’t defend themselves. -- acyn on twitter
"If cops confront protesters for possessing illegal weapons, the protesters should use those weapons" is a helluva take, but within the range of Hannity having a normal one.
Naturally, the general response from the clownvoy is "FALSE FLAG!" and "The RCMP is planting weapons to make us seem violent and justify martial law!" and whatnot, which will mutate into "George Soros personally planted COVID-infected weapons on our trucks to FRAME US under orders from the CCP" by nightfall.
posted by delfin at 8:19 AM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
"If cops confront protesters for possessing illegal weapons, the protesters should use those weapons" is a helluva take, but within the range of Hannity having a normal one.
Naturally, the general response from the clownvoy is "FALSE FLAG!" and "The RCMP is planting weapons to make us seem violent and justify martial law!" and whatnot, which will mutate into "George Soros personally planted COVID-infected weapons on our trucks to FRAME US under orders from the CCP" by nightfall.
posted by delfin at 8:19 AM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Ottawa police chief Peter Sloly has just resigned.
posted by heatherlogan at 8:58 AM on February 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by heatherlogan at 8:58 AM on February 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
Thank god for that.
posted by aclevername at 9:42 AM on February 15, 2022
posted by aclevername at 9:42 AM on February 15, 2022
I didn't know how to read Sloly; someone in over their head? someone not in control of their department? someone in on it? someone who's seeing something no one else is?
I still don't.
posted by mazola at 10:51 AM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I still don't.
posted by mazola at 10:51 AM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Someone looking for job with less answering to media/politicians and more cracking of black/brown heads.
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:05 AM on February 15, 2022
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:05 AM on February 15, 2022
Someone looking for job with less answering to media/politicians and more cracking of black/brown heads.
I'm pretty sure Sloly has a brown head himself.
I didn't know how to read Sloly; someone in over their head? someone not in control of their department? someone in on it? someone who's seeing something no one else is?
I still don't.
when I first heard that this convoy was forming and on its way (and it took a period of days to get to Ottawa), my first thought, which I posted to Facebook, was:
THEY'RE MAD AS HELL AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE.
A reference to the famous scene in the movie Network.
Some friends immediately got mad at me for supporting the convoy, which was not the case, I was simply reporting what I felt was at the heart of things. Not the political heart. Not the assholes who were talking about overthrowing the govt, arresting Trudeau etc. More the emotional heart -- the reality that a whole bunch of Canadians (no doubt working all manner of unexamined xenophobia and covid-related disinformation and overall frustration at things-not-being-the-way-they're-supposed-to-be) were somewhat onside with the convoy. "Enough disruption of our lives, we want our normal back and we want it back now, to hell with your science if it suggests otherwise."
My next thought was, "Are they going to just let this happen?" They being whoever had the authority/responsibility of both keeping the city of Ottawa functioning and being legal about it (ie: not overreacting, not contravening the law, the charter of rights and freedoms). It's pretty clear now that whoever they were, they weren't up to it. They let the convoy go where it wanted, then entrench. They blew it.
Hindsight being hindsight, I don't doubt that we'll eventually know what actually happened, who did or didn't make decisions and why. For now, we have this FUBAR mess which didn't need to happen. Or maybe it did. Because one thing I am noticing is that pretty much NOBODY is happy about the current state of things. Trudeau's either Adolph H Jr. or he incompetently and cowardly waited way too long to do anything substantive (with variations in between these extremes).
Democracy in fucking action.
posted by philip-random at 11:24 AM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm pretty sure Sloly has a brown head himself.
I didn't know how to read Sloly; someone in over their head? someone not in control of their department? someone in on it? someone who's seeing something no one else is?
I still don't.
when I first heard that this convoy was forming and on its way (and it took a period of days to get to Ottawa), my first thought, which I posted to Facebook, was:
THEY'RE MAD AS HELL AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE.
A reference to the famous scene in the movie Network.
Some friends immediately got mad at me for supporting the convoy, which was not the case, I was simply reporting what I felt was at the heart of things. Not the political heart. Not the assholes who were talking about overthrowing the govt, arresting Trudeau etc. More the emotional heart -- the reality that a whole bunch of Canadians (no doubt working all manner of unexamined xenophobia and covid-related disinformation and overall frustration at things-not-being-the-way-they're-supposed-to-be) were somewhat onside with the convoy. "Enough disruption of our lives, we want our normal back and we want it back now, to hell with your science if it suggests otherwise."
My next thought was, "Are they going to just let this happen?" They being whoever had the authority/responsibility of both keeping the city of Ottawa functioning and being legal about it (ie: not overreacting, not contravening the law, the charter of rights and freedoms). It's pretty clear now that whoever they were, they weren't up to it. They let the convoy go where it wanted, then entrench. They blew it.
Hindsight being hindsight, I don't doubt that we'll eventually know what actually happened, who did or didn't make decisions and why. For now, we have this FUBAR mess which didn't need to happen. Or maybe it did. Because one thing I am noticing is that pretty much NOBODY is happy about the current state of things. Trudeau's either Adolph H Jr. or he incompetently and cowardly waited way too long to do anything substantive (with variations in between these extremes).
Democracy in fucking action.
posted by philip-random at 11:24 AM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
If anybody wants to listen in on the idiocy we are dealing with, there is a livestream of their Twitter space linked here. You can gawk without contaminating your own Twitter account.
posted by rpfields at 12:06 PM on February 15, 2022
posted by rpfields at 12:06 PM on February 15, 2022
Now planning to set up their own parallel economy...
posted by rpfields at 12:16 PM on February 15, 2022
posted by rpfields at 12:16 PM on February 15, 2022
I just discovered we've moved to this new thread:
https://www.metafilter.com/194412/Canadas-Protest-on-Wheels
People probably shouldn't post too many new comments to this old thread.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:22 PM on February 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
https://www.metafilter.com/194412/Canadas-Protest-on-Wheels
People probably shouldn't post too many new comments to this old thread.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:22 PM on February 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Now starting an "elites of TikTok" meme army, and planning to buy up land to keep it from Mark Zuckerberg.
posted by rpfields at 12:23 PM on February 15, 2022
posted by rpfields at 12:23 PM on February 15, 2022
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posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 10:21 AM on February 5, 2022 [28 favorites]