P.J. O'Rourke, (1947-2022)
February 15, 2022 3:15 PM Subscribe
"Giving money and power to politicians is a lot like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys..."
(previously - cw for cancers)
. for the writing style that I enjoyed, but * for the ways I felt he enabled the both-sides-are-equally bad in false-dichotomy ways.
"She's wrong about absolutely everything, but she's wrong within normal parameters.." - PJO'R, 2016, endorsing HRC on Wait, Wait.
posted by Mutant Lobsters from Riverhead at 3:19 PM on February 15, 2022 [16 favorites]
. for the writing style that I enjoyed, but * for the ways I felt he enabled the both-sides-are-equally bad in false-dichotomy ways.
"She's wrong about absolutely everything, but she's wrong within normal parameters.." - PJO'R, 2016, endorsing HRC on Wait, Wait.
posted by Mutant Lobsters from Riverhead at 3:19 PM on February 15, 2022 [16 favorites]
.
posted by HandfulOfDust at 3:23 PM on February 15, 2022
posted by HandfulOfDust at 3:23 PM on February 15, 2022
.
posted by doctornemo at 3:25 PM on February 15, 2022
posted by doctornemo at 3:25 PM on February 15, 2022
* to a man who thought he was funnier than he actually was.
posted by hwyengr at 3:25 PM on February 15, 2022 [24 favorites]
posted by hwyengr at 3:25 PM on February 15, 2022 [24 favorites]
He was from that generation of intellectual conservatives that recognized Trump as dangerous and refused to support him.
posted by ShakeyJake at 3:27 PM on February 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by ShakeyJake at 3:27 PM on February 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
He was from that generation of intellectual conservatives that recognized Trump as dangerous and refused to support him.
But seemingly not how their various flavors of genteel country club fascism greased the skips for Trump.
O'Rourke consistently struck me as smug, thoughtless, and thoroughly shielded from any real world consequences of his glib politics.
posted by ryanshepard at 3:36 PM on February 15, 2022 [72 favorites]
But seemingly not how their various flavors of genteel country club fascism greased the skips for Trump.
O'Rourke consistently struck me as smug, thoughtless, and thoroughly shielded from any real world consequences of his glib politics.
posted by ryanshepard at 3:36 PM on February 15, 2022 [72 favorites]
RIP. he was the best, the last Conservative with which you disagreed, but admired him nonetheless. I miss the pre-politicized days when you could like someone you thought was wrong.
posted by Keith Talent at 3:46 PM on February 15, 2022 [16 favorites]
posted by Keith Talent at 3:46 PM on February 15, 2022 [16 favorites]
.
I can spare that much. O'Rourke was one of several writers I got ahold of when I was much too young to understand them, mostly grizzled old columnists with chips on their shoulder about women. I learned things from him, bad things, but it was learning nevertheless. For example, this book is full of jokes that I now realize I still have to memory. It's part of how I learned what men thought of women. Was it wrong about that?
posted by Countess Elena at 3:48 PM on February 15, 2022 [25 favorites]
I can spare that much. O'Rourke was one of several writers I got ahold of when I was much too young to understand them, mostly grizzled old columnists with chips on their shoulder about women. I learned things from him, bad things, but it was learning nevertheless. For example, this book is full of jokes that I now realize I still have to memory. It's part of how I learned what men thought of women. Was it wrong about that?
posted by Countess Elena at 3:48 PM on February 15, 2022 [25 favorites]
"The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it."
The man was one of the founding fathers of glibertarianism.
So however funny he may have seemed at one point or another (and honestly he got so UNfunny after Bush II was "elected" that I have can't help but have visions of a smoke-filled back room where it's pointed out to O'Rourke that nice career he's got there, it would be a shame if it all went poof because he continues to make fun of his Glibertarian pals who are now running the country so maybe he better just shut the fuck up and stick to mocking the Democrats from now on), he laid the groundwork for a LOT of dangerous bullshit.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:51 PM on February 15, 2022 [32 favorites]
The man was one of the founding fathers of glibertarianism.
So however funny he may have seemed at one point or another (and honestly he got so UNfunny after Bush II was "elected" that I have can't help but have visions of a smoke-filled back room where it's pointed out to O'Rourke that nice career he's got there, it would be a shame if it all went poof because he continues to make fun of his Glibertarian pals who are now running the country so maybe he better just shut the fuck up and stick to mocking the Democrats from now on), he laid the groundwork for a LOT of dangerous bullshit.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:51 PM on February 15, 2022 [32 favorites]
yes, a shit from the DC Blob. but, 'parliament of whores' was pretty funny (in 1995) and got me engaged with US politics, so...
.
posted by j_curiouser at 3:54 PM on February 15, 2022
.
posted by j_curiouser at 3:54 PM on February 15, 2022
"She's wrong about absolutely everything, but she's wrong within normal parameters.." - PJO'R, 2016, endorsing HRC on Wait, Wait.
THANK you. I knew I had a favorite PJ O'Rourke quote where something ran counter to his usual position, but I could NOT dredge it up.
posted by The Tensor at 3:56 PM on February 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
THANK you. I knew I had a favorite PJ O'Rourke quote where something ran counter to his usual position, but I could NOT dredge it up.
posted by The Tensor at 3:56 PM on February 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
.
I can spare that much. O'Rourke was one of several writers I got ahold of when I was much too young to understand them, mostly grizzled old columnists with chips on their shoulder about women. I learned things from him, bad things, but it was learning nevertheless. For example, this book is full of jokes that I now realize I still have to memory. It's part of how I learned what men thought of women. Was it wrong about that?
This is a marvelously subtle and thoughtful remark.
posted by clockzero at 4:00 PM on February 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
I can spare that much. O'Rourke was one of several writers I got ahold of when I was much too young to understand them, mostly grizzled old columnists with chips on their shoulder about women. I learned things from him, bad things, but it was learning nevertheless. For example, this book is full of jokes that I now realize I still have to memory. It's part of how I learned what men thought of women. Was it wrong about that?
This is a marvelously subtle and thoughtful remark.
posted by clockzero at 4:00 PM on February 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'll reiterate a previous comment: PJ identified as conservative to tease people, but his political scope ranged cross-platform; and the times when he actually did lean conservative, he wasn't as funny.
posted by ovvl at 4:01 PM on February 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by ovvl at 4:01 PM on February 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
PJ O'Rourke was that rarest of creatures: a conservative comedian who was actually funny. He could punch all the way down and make you laugh despite yourself. There was a kind of evil genius to it. We're very fortunate there aren't more of him.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:03 PM on February 15, 2022 [28 favorites]
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:03 PM on February 15, 2022 [28 favorites]
Some of his books have not aged well (and maybe he didn’t either), but Modern Manners has aged exquisitely.
.
posted by box at 4:07 PM on February 15, 2022
.
posted by box at 4:07 PM on February 15, 2022
He was from that generation of intellectual conservatives that recognized Trump as dangerous and refused to support him.
Most of the people who now support Trump will say this about themselves in twenty years when yet another, even worse, guy gets the R nomination.
posted by traveler_ at 4:08 PM on February 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
Most of the people who now support Trump will say this about themselves in twenty years when yet another, even worse, guy gets the R nomination.
posted by traveler_ at 4:08 PM on February 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
I could never reconcile National Lampoon O'Rourke with what came later.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 4:17 PM on February 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 4:17 PM on February 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
I miss the pre-politicized days when you could like someone you thought was wrong.
Things were never pre-politicized, but a lot of us were comfortable ignoring the consequences of our politics. Today, a lot of us want that comfortable ignorance back.
posted by mhoye at 4:17 PM on February 15, 2022 [32 favorites]
Things were never pre-politicized, but a lot of us were comfortable ignoring the consequences of our politics. Today, a lot of us want that comfortable ignorance back.
posted by mhoye at 4:17 PM on February 15, 2022 [32 favorites]
* to a man who thought he was funnier than he actually was.
This. Without even getting into O'Rourke's politics, his humor always came across as elitist. While listening to Wait Wait Don't Tell Me, I always pictured him sitting around in a bathrobe holding a highball in his hand and smoking a cigar because that's just how he sounded. His jokes were always awkward, his perspective was outdated and not at all grounded in reality (just listen to some of his made up news stories in the Bluff the Listener segment and you'll know what I mean) and all too often he'd punch down for no other reason than to punch down.
Maybe his earlier work was better, but his later career never gave me any incentive to investigate.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 4:17 PM on February 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
This. Without even getting into O'Rourke's politics, his humor always came across as elitist. While listening to Wait Wait Don't Tell Me, I always pictured him sitting around in a bathrobe holding a highball in his hand and smoking a cigar because that's just how he sounded. His jokes were always awkward, his perspective was outdated and not at all grounded in reality (just listen to some of his made up news stories in the Bluff the Listener segment and you'll know what I mean) and all too often he'd punch down for no other reason than to punch down.
Maybe his earlier work was better, but his later career never gave me any incentive to investigate.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 4:17 PM on February 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
I could never reconcile National Lampoon O'Rourke with what came later.
I don't know. He was the the leader of the class that took over after after Doug Kenney left, and oversaw its initial decline.
posted by hwyengr at 4:29 PM on February 15, 2022
I don't know. He was the the leader of the class that took over after after Doug Kenney left, and oversaw its initial decline.
posted by hwyengr at 4:29 PM on February 15, 2022
TW: slurs, incredible racism
Yeah, good riddance. I wonder how many of those remembering him fondly here are people of color?
posted by rishabguha at 4:43 PM on February 15, 2022 [24 favorites]
Yeah, good riddance. I wonder how many of those remembering him fondly here are people of color?
posted by rishabguha at 4:43 PM on February 15, 2022 [24 favorites]
. for his Wait Wait Don't Tell Me appearances.
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 4:43 PM on February 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 4:43 PM on February 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
His description of himself was a "pants-down republican," the original socially liberal, fiscally conservative political animal. His stuff from some of the worst war-torn places (Holidays in Hell) was some pretty good gonzo journalism. I think he realized close to the end that he was backing the wrong horse, but it was the row he chose to hoe.
I too enjoyed his books when I was a young man. He seemed like the thinking man's Hunter Thompson. He made a lot of sense back when the republicans actually seemed to care about democracy and America. And there was a time when that was true, believe it or not.
.
posted by valkane at 4:51 PM on February 15, 2022 [10 favorites]
I too enjoyed his books when I was a young man. He seemed like the thinking man's Hunter Thompson. He made a lot of sense back when the republicans actually seemed to care about democracy and America. And there was a time when that was true, believe it or not.
.
posted by valkane at 4:51 PM on February 15, 2022 [10 favorites]
P.J. O'Rourke had many and manifest problems, and I don't excuse him for any of that. But Holidays in Hell had entertaining takedowns of EPCOT Center and Heritage USA. The other bits do not stick out as well in the memory, and that's probably for the best.
posted by JHarris at 4:51 PM on February 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 4:51 PM on February 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
RIP. he was the best, the last Conservative with which you disagreed, but admired him nonetheless.
Or at least respect him.
posted by ocschwar at 4:56 PM on February 15, 2022
He was very funny, sometimes had valid criticisms, but entitled, glib, lacked even rudimentary compassion, so wrong about so much, and unwilling to acknowledge it. But funny and smart and I'll kind of miss him.
.
posted by theora55 at 4:56 PM on February 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
.
posted by theora55 at 4:56 PM on February 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
It's sad whenever anyone smart dies when they had so much stuff yet to begin to try to understand.
posted by lauranesson at 5:02 PM on February 15, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by lauranesson at 5:02 PM on February 15, 2022 [9 favorites]
The dedication page from Give War A Chance.
posted by valkane at 5:03 PM on February 15, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by valkane at 5:03 PM on February 15, 2022 [14 favorites]
My introduction to PJ O'Rourke was this article from Car and Driver, when he drove a Ferrari cross-country. I haven't read it in, geez, twenty years? Thirty? So it might be problematic, I dunno, but I remember enjoying it at the time.
posted by nushustu at 5:38 PM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by nushustu at 5:38 PM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Ctrl-F "fuck P.J. O'Rourke" results=0
Well, now I've said it, so my job here is done.
*
I also searched without the periods just to be sure, so fuck PJ O'Rourke as well
posted by tzikeh at 5:43 PM on February 15, 2022 [13 favorites]
Well, now I've said it, so my job here is done.
*
I also searched without the periods just to be sure, so fuck PJ O'Rourke as well
posted by tzikeh at 5:43 PM on February 15, 2022 [13 favorites]
Aaaaaand right from the second paragraph, I'm horrified. So never mind. Kind of fuck that guy, dead or no.
posted by nushustu at 5:44 PM on February 15, 2022
posted by nushustu at 5:44 PM on February 15, 2022
TW: slurs, incredible racism
"Just for context, this isn't a racist scree, but a satirical piece mocking racism circa 1976"
So a pioneer of ironic racism, too? Truly, ahead of his time...
posted by clawsoon at 5:44 PM on February 15, 2022 [10 favorites]
"Just for context, this isn't a racist scree, but a satirical piece mocking racism circa 1976"
So a pioneer of ironic racism, too? Truly, ahead of his time...
posted by clawsoon at 5:44 PM on February 15, 2022 [10 favorites]
My now-wife and I went to see the late Mr O'Rourke many, many years ago in Austin in the late 90s, when he performed at UT. As a liberal, I wanted to see what one of the supposedly agreeable and funny conservative thinkers had to say.
I lol'ed at quite a bit of his material, but I should have seen that something that occurred during his show was a harbinger of what awaited us in the 21st century: one segment of his show was devoted to attacking Hilary Clinton, and he whipped the crowd -- aside from my wife and me -- into a tent revival-like frenzy by talking about the great vengeance and furious anger with which they would oppose her were she to run for President one day. Not just "she sucks, amirite?" but a "We shall fight her on the beaches, we shall fight her in the streets, she's truly one of history's greatest monsters" kind of thing.
It was a strange detour in a performance where he otherwise let fly at "both sides" with his trademark detached and comfortable conservative white man humor.
May he rest in some manner or another.
posted by lord_wolf at 6:14 PM on February 15, 2022 [9 favorites]
I lol'ed at quite a bit of his material, but I should have seen that something that occurred during his show was a harbinger of what awaited us in the 21st century: one segment of his show was devoted to attacking Hilary Clinton, and he whipped the crowd -- aside from my wife and me -- into a tent revival-like frenzy by talking about the great vengeance and furious anger with which they would oppose her were she to run for President one day. Not just "she sucks, amirite?" but a "We shall fight her on the beaches, we shall fight her in the streets, she's truly one of history's greatest monsters" kind of thing.
It was a strange detour in a performance where he otherwise let fly at "both sides" with his trademark detached and comfortable conservative white man humor.
May he rest in some manner or another.
posted by lord_wolf at 6:14 PM on February 15, 2022 [9 favorites]
PJ O'Rourke was that rarest of creatures: a conservative comedian who was actually funny. He could punch all the way down and make you laugh despite yourself.
I found him the last conservative capable of being simultaneously conservative and funny*. (And in an era where Trump is the GOP poster boy, a guy who titles his book on the 2016 election How the Hell Did This Happen? is in a sort of in the enemy-of-my-enemy position, as also demonstrated with the “wrong inside normal parameters” line.)
A couple of things from him I recall approximately, as it has been decades... in Modern Manners, he writes something to the effect of:
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:44 PM on February 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
I found him the last conservative capable of being simultaneously conservative and funny*. (And in an era where Trump is the GOP poster boy, a guy who titles his book on the 2016 election How the Hell Did This Happen? is in a sort of in the enemy-of-my-enemy position, as also demonstrated with the “wrong inside normal parameters” line.)
A couple of things from him I recall approximately, as it has been decades... in Modern Manners, he writes something to the effect of:
A hat should be taken off when you meet a lady and left off for the rest of your life. Nothing looks as stupid as a hat. Unless you are being paid to play professional baseball or are hunting ducks in the rain, do not wear a hat.And in Esquire some thirty years ago, he wrote something along the lines of:
A classical education provides no skills, but at 45, I don’t want skills. If I had skills, I’d have a duller job. I’d be a dentist.*Dennis Miller was funny, then later he was conservative. Kelsey Grammer? Tim Allen? They don’t much budge the needle for funny for me. Tony Danza? David Spade? Vince Vaughan? Less a list of comedy headliners and more the bottom row on Hollywood Squares.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:44 PM on February 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
And the very first time I ever encountered him was nearly forty years ago in his automotive journalism days. He was the guest on a call-in radio show called Car Talk, or else it should have been called that.
One caller asked about something he had heard about some car from behind the Iron Curtain. Lada? Yugo? I can’t recall now, but the caller asked if it was true that there was some chemical that was used to disintegrate the cars when they were taken off the road. O’Rourke said, “Yeah, it’s called salt.”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:49 PM on February 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
One caller asked about something he had heard about some car from behind the Iron Curtain. Lada? Yugo? I can’t recall now, but the caller asked if it was true that there was some chemical that was used to disintegrate the cars when they were taken off the road. O’Rourke said, “Yeah, it’s called salt.”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:49 PM on February 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
PJ O'Rourke was that rarest of creatures: a conservative comedian who was actually funny. He could punch all the way down and make you laugh despite yourself. There was a kind of evil genius to it. We're very fortunate there aren't more of him.
This.
NatLamp was my jam as a stupid teen in the 70s. I often feel sheepishly guilty for all the bellylaughs I got from material I now recognize as hideously racist/misogynistic/classist/etc. and O’Rourke was often the author of those laughs.
.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:51 PM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
This.
NatLamp was my jam as a stupid teen in the 70s. I often feel sheepishly guilty for all the bellylaughs I got from material I now recognize as hideously racist/misogynistic/classist/etc. and O’Rourke was often the author of those laughs.
.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:51 PM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
So a pioneer of ironic racism, too? Truly, ahead of his time...
Learning the lesson that "anything you do ironically, you're still doing" took me far too long.
*
but for the idea I once believed that there could be "good conservatives," well:
.
posted by fedward at 7:12 PM on February 15, 2022 [9 favorites]
Learning the lesson that "anything you do ironically, you're still doing" took me far too long.
*
but for the idea I once believed that there could be "good conservatives," well:
.
posted by fedward at 7:12 PM on February 15, 2022 [9 favorites]
.
From Politico (AP):
“Most well-known people try to be nicer than they are in public than they are in private life. PJ was the only man I knew to be the opposite. He was a deeply kind and generous man who pretended to be a curmudgeon for public consumption,” tweeted Peter Sagal, the host of “Wait Wait... Don’t Tell Me!”
“He told the best stories. He had the most remarkable friends. And he devoted himself to them and his family in a way that would have totally ruined his shtick had anyone ever found out,” Sagal said.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:55 PM on February 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
From Politico (AP):
“Most well-known people try to be nicer than they are in public than they are in private life. PJ was the only man I knew to be the opposite. He was a deeply kind and generous man who pretended to be a curmudgeon for public consumption,” tweeted Peter Sagal, the host of “Wait Wait... Don’t Tell Me!”
“He told the best stories. He had the most remarkable friends. And he devoted himself to them and his family in a way that would have totally ruined his shtick had anyone ever found out,” Sagal said.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:55 PM on February 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
This writer was important to me in one minor way: it was a time I remember really, actually, fully thinking in an adult way that the piece I was reading was some sexist bullshit.
posted by jjray at 8:15 PM on February 15, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by jjray at 8:15 PM on February 15, 2022 [11 favorites]
"But a few years ago I met PJ O'Rourke, and he told me a sad tale. He said he and Thompson were on Rolling Stone assignments in London at the same time. Thompson had been commissioned to write "Fear and Loathing at Buckingham Palace". O'Rourke phoned him at his hotel for a joke and said, "The royal family are onto you! They've got their people on the roof and they're going to break into your window and get you! Thompson apparently screamed, hung up the phone, locked himself in his hotel room, and didn't come out until it was time for him to fly back to America."
I believe this, not really but maybe?
posted by clavdivs at 8:16 PM on February 15, 2022
I believe this, not really but maybe?
posted by clavdivs at 8:16 PM on February 15, 2022
The closest thing to Jermey Clarkson the United States could cough up.
.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 8:22 PM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 8:22 PM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I remember I enjoyed that one Bachelor book of his when I was a kid (I guess when I was like 14?), and I think also Holidays In Hell (had to look it up), but after that he just kind of sounded like an article in Quadrant magazine but with a swear or two?
On non-preview, Countess Elena, you are exactly right with "O'Rourke was one of several writers I got ahold of when I was much too young to understand them". Modern Manners is another one I remember reading, and Charles Bukowski another author I now think of in the same way.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:24 PM on February 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
On non-preview, Countess Elena, you are exactly right with "O'Rourke was one of several writers I got ahold of when I was much too young to understand them". Modern Manners is another one I remember reading, and Charles Bukowski another author I now think of in the same way.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:24 PM on February 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
I thought that National Lampoon was the shit when I was about thirteen or fourteen, but much later on, as an adult, I pulled them out and, after a quick skim through stuff that I would read and re-read in high school, I threw them out in embarrassment that I ever thought that this stuff was funny. Those issues would have been solidly within the P.J. O'Rourke era, and some time before weeding my collection of old magazines, I'd gotten tired of O'Rourke's solo shtick. "The man was one of the founding fathers of glibertarianism" sums it up well.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:27 PM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:27 PM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
.
You're all not wrong about the glibertarian thing. But I think now and then his heart really shone through, the quote which I always remember is from Republican Party Reptile, in the essay "Safety Nazis":
> [Under Reagan] something has even been done about that tired observation
> "The poor are always with us" — what with the end of busing and affirmative action
> the poor will be, I presume, mostly with each other.
... and also for embarrassing Julie Bishop terribly in this panel (click transcript, search for "smuggler"):
https://www.abc.net.au/qanda/pj-orourke-on-q-and-a/10663088
posted by nickzoic at 10:02 PM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
You're all not wrong about the glibertarian thing. But I think now and then his heart really shone through, the quote which I always remember is from Republican Party Reptile, in the essay "Safety Nazis":
> [Under Reagan] something has even been done about that tired observation
> "The poor are always with us" — what with the end of busing and affirmative action
> the poor will be, I presume, mostly with each other.
... and also for embarrassing Julie Bishop terribly in this panel (click transcript, search for "smuggler"):
https://www.abc.net.au/qanda/pj-orourke-on-q-and-a/10663088
posted by nickzoic at 10:02 PM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I saw him speak at Cheltenham Literary Festival in 2015, when he confirmed from the stage that he'd be voting for Hillary in the coming election. The book he was there to sell was How The Hell Did This Happen?, of course. I queued with a copy at his signing table for a while afterwards, planning to ask him to write "Vote Hillary" in it and then sign beneath. I don't know if he'd have done it or not, because the queue was so long I just abandoned the idea in the end. Wish I hadn't now.
His early books made me laugh a lot, and he was always good value in interviews too. The later books declined into a tired, written-in-his-sleep schtick, just as his Rolling Stone predecessor (and blueprint) Hunter S. Thompson's had. There's something inevitable about that process for anyone who's early fame relied on being outrageous, I guess.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:14 AM on February 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
His early books made me laugh a lot, and he was always good value in interviews too. The later books declined into a tired, written-in-his-sleep schtick, just as his Rolling Stone predecessor (and blueprint) Hunter S. Thompson's had. There's something inevitable about that process for anyone who's early fame relied on being outrageous, I guess.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:14 AM on February 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
Goodbye, P.J. I regret that when I recently found a cache of my sent 1998 Yahoo! Mail from when I was a stupid college senior, it showed clear signs of being influenced by your terrible Truly Tasteless Jokes-aligned world view.
posted by johngoren at 3:08 AM on February 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by johngoren at 3:08 AM on February 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
I think that when people call him “funny,” they mean more than anything that he could articulate, sharply and clearly and pointedly, both what he believed and why he believed it. His worldview was cynical and, I would argue, fatalist to the point of nihilism—which is true of conservative ideology as a whole, I think. And while the worldview he articulated was putrid, and while he chose as targets a number of subjects too savaged for me to be comfortable with him savaging them again, he was lucid and honest about what he believed, never shying away from the ugliness at the heart of his philosophy.
I think that, to the extent that people disagreed with him and still appreciated him, it was that he avoided the kind of cowardly politeness and “good taste” with which disgusting people shy away from the hideous conclusions of what they purport to believe. I read him and see, laid out barely, things which I know a lot of people believe, which if nothing else helps me think about how I might articulate my opposition to those ideas—not ideologically, but with humorous lucidity.
I believe you can be a gentle, compassionate person who subscribes to a cruel and violent worldview, so I trust the people who knew him personally and felt that he was kind within the tinier and more exclusive sphere of his personal life. And his overt comic ugliness was, if not a generosity itself, then at least a genteel way of owning up to that ugliness. Not mock-genteel, where you feign decency and absolve yourself of all responsibility, but the kind where he was open about who and what he was, and gave other people the right to think about him what they would. At the same time, he did it with poise and, sometimes, even grace. I wish more people who I agreed with carried them as well (though the ones that do make O’Rourke look fumbling and clumsy by comparison).
I can’t say I was a fan, or respected him enough to get seriously into him, but I admire some of his qualities and enjoyed his articulation of hideous things more than I enjoy them coming from most. I both wish other conservatives could be as charming and insightful about their own worldview, and simultaneously am kind of glad that so few of them seem to pass muster.
posted by rorgy at 5:04 AM on February 16, 2022 [15 favorites]
I think that, to the extent that people disagreed with him and still appreciated him, it was that he avoided the kind of cowardly politeness and “good taste” with which disgusting people shy away from the hideous conclusions of what they purport to believe. I read him and see, laid out barely, things which I know a lot of people believe, which if nothing else helps me think about how I might articulate my opposition to those ideas—not ideologically, but with humorous lucidity.
I believe you can be a gentle, compassionate person who subscribes to a cruel and violent worldview, so I trust the people who knew him personally and felt that he was kind within the tinier and more exclusive sphere of his personal life. And his overt comic ugliness was, if not a generosity itself, then at least a genteel way of owning up to that ugliness. Not mock-genteel, where you feign decency and absolve yourself of all responsibility, but the kind where he was open about who and what he was, and gave other people the right to think about him what they would. At the same time, he did it with poise and, sometimes, even grace. I wish more people who I agreed with carried them as well (though the ones that do make O’Rourke look fumbling and clumsy by comparison).
I can’t say I was a fan, or respected him enough to get seriously into him, but I admire some of his qualities and enjoyed his articulation of hideous things more than I enjoy them coming from most. I both wish other conservatives could be as charming and insightful about their own worldview, and simultaneously am kind of glad that so few of them seem to pass muster.
posted by rorgy at 5:04 AM on February 16, 2022 [15 favorites]
So a pioneer of ironic racism, too? Truly, ahead of his time...
Revisiting the 70s Lampoon - which I found very funny when I read issues that a friend's dad had in the 80s - in middle age really took the shine off. O'Rourke was far from alone in pioneering this there.
posted by ryanshepard at 5:16 AM on February 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
Revisiting the 70s Lampoon - which I found very funny when I read issues that a friend's dad had in the 80s - in middle age really took the shine off. O'Rourke was far from alone in pioneering this there.
posted by ryanshepard at 5:16 AM on February 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
Molly Ringwald revisits National Lampoon.
"Yes, it was a different time, as people say. Still, I was taken aback by the scope of the ugliness."
Yeah, I treasured my '90s edition of the best of Lampoon but if I come across it in a box in the garage one of these days, I don't think I will be cracking it open any time soon to laff at the racist Thurgood Marshall jokes.
posted by johngoren at 5:21 AM on February 16, 2022 [6 favorites]
"Yes, it was a different time, as people say. Still, I was taken aback by the scope of the ugliness."
Yeah, I treasured my '90s edition of the best of Lampoon but if I come across it in a box in the garage one of these days, I don't think I will be cracking it open any time soon to laff at the racist Thurgood Marshall jokes.
posted by johngoren at 5:21 AM on February 16, 2022 [6 favorites]
government will make you smarter, taller, richer
A terser summary of the societal benefits of the food stamp program would be hard to find.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 5:35 AM on February 16, 2022 [23 favorites]
A terser summary of the societal benefits of the food stamp program would be hard to find.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 5:35 AM on February 16, 2022 [23 favorites]
He worked on the "National Lampoon's 1964 High School Yearbook", so he wasn't all bad.
.
posted by james33 at 5:52 AM on February 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
.
posted by james33 at 5:52 AM on February 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
My introduction was probably the Lampoon's 1964 Yearbook, which was so spot-on it gave me flashbacks.
I may still have it in the house, but it's probably not as funny as it used to be. I seem to recall homophobic and ironic racist humor.
I didn't 'consume' much O'Rourke, but two other things stick out in my memory, I think both of them from Age and Guile Beat Youth, Innocence, and a Bad Haircut-
One was about the Dodge Viper, which was a fantastic piece of work. (in my memory, at least)
The other recalled his misspent youth as a hippie. He seemed genuinely ashamed of his days of sex, drugs, rock-and-roll, and other liberal pursuits. This was contrasted in my mind with my employers at the time who still celebrated their hippie past and wanted to have a commune type of workplace.
Perhaps he was an OK Boomer. I don't usually side with those who gave up love and peace for money.
posted by MtDewd at 6:00 AM on February 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
I may still have it in the house, but it's probably not as funny as it used to be. I seem to recall homophobic and ironic racist humor.
I didn't 'consume' much O'Rourke, but two other things stick out in my memory, I think both of them from Age and Guile Beat Youth, Innocence, and a Bad Haircut-
One was about the Dodge Viper, which was a fantastic piece of work. (in my memory, at least)
The other recalled his misspent youth as a hippie. He seemed genuinely ashamed of his days of sex, drugs, rock-and-roll, and other liberal pursuits. This was contrasted in my mind with my employers at the time who still celebrated their hippie past and wanted to have a commune type of workplace.
Perhaps he was an OK Boomer. I don't usually side with those who gave up love and peace for money.
posted by MtDewd at 6:00 AM on February 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
.
My main exposure to him was when I subscribed to The Atlantic in grad school. This would have been 2000-2006ish and he had a column there. I remember saying to my roommate, "I always feel like he's trying to say something interesting, but I can never figure out WHAT? Like what exactly is his thesis here? " And my roommate said he felt the same way every time he read the column. And then I heard someone on TV call him a "prominent republican" so I thought "ah ok, now with that little bit of context I'll be able to figure out what he's trying to say" but no. I always read his column. I guess I enjoyed it. But I never got it. I always felt like I was missing the point.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:33 AM on February 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
My main exposure to him was when I subscribed to The Atlantic in grad school. This would have been 2000-2006ish and he had a column there. I remember saying to my roommate, "I always feel like he's trying to say something interesting, but I can never figure out WHAT? Like what exactly is his thesis here? " And my roommate said he felt the same way every time he read the column. And then I heard someone on TV call him a "prominent republican" so I thought "ah ok, now with that little bit of context I'll be able to figure out what he's trying to say" but no. I always read his column. I guess I enjoyed it. But I never got it. I always felt like I was missing the point.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:33 AM on February 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
I once saw O'Rourke give the commencement address at a small private high school, and had the opportunity to meet him. His speech poked fun at the graduation speech tropes of urging graduates to seek to do good, change the world, etc. -- rather, he advised, they should be selfish. It was a genuinely funny speech! But it was also a disgusting performance, giving incredibly privileged people permission to remain in their comfortable, small, self-absorbed worlds without feeling guilt. He was also incredibly kind and charming with the students and families, generous with his time and attention in a way that other celebrities dropping in for such an event would likely not have bothered to be. Would have been as nice in a different social milieu, though? I kinda doubt it.
posted by naoko at 6:50 AM on February 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by naoko at 6:50 AM on February 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
MetaFilter: smug, thoughtless, and thoroughly shielded from any real world consequences.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:23 AM on February 16, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 7:23 AM on February 16, 2022 [5 favorites]
The dedication page from Give War A Chance.
That leading tho
posted by kirkaracha at 7:26 AM on February 16, 2022
That leading tho
posted by kirkaracha at 7:26 AM on February 16, 2022
*
posted by AlSweigart at 8:02 AM on February 16, 2022
posted by AlSweigart at 8:02 AM on February 16, 2022
He seemed to me to be someone who used cleverness to gussy up shitty messaging. As a high schooler, maybe into college?, his takedowns of foreigners, for example, seemed so witty. But, ultimately, that approach is problematically seductive, as a spoonful of '62 Chateau Margaux helps a lot of bad medicine go down. And reading that he was actually a swell feller who put on a curmudgeon suit doesn't really mean a gd thing because the meatheads who took him at his word didn't have the benefit of that ironic distance to contextualize his writing.
Didn't know he was alive. Any man's death diminishes me, &c., &c. Whatever.
posted by the sobsister at 8:06 AM on February 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
Didn't know he was alive. Any man's death diminishes me, &c., &c. Whatever.
posted by the sobsister at 8:06 AM on February 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think the older he got, and the richer/safer, the less interesting or empathetic his writing was. At the same time, as I got older I became more empathetic (and less Republican), so maybe it's both of us?
"Holidays in Hell" was genuinely interesting travel writing back then. And "Parliament of Whores" was very blunt and funny about the sprawl of American government. But his later books got kind of tin-eared or shrill, and I stopped reading him years ago.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:26 AM on February 16, 2022 [7 favorites]
"Holidays in Hell" was genuinely interesting travel writing back then. And "Parliament of Whores" was very blunt and funny about the sprawl of American government. But his later books got kind of tin-eared or shrill, and I stopped reading him years ago.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:26 AM on February 16, 2022 [7 favorites]
Wenestvedt sums up my own feelings exactly. I loved that piece that nushutu mentioned above; I also loved an interview he had with Hunter S. Thompson after Thompson said something critical about George Bush; somehow the interview devolved to a joint speculation about whether it would be okay to say that Ed Meese should be rogered by an elk.
I loved his work then. He didn't suffer fools, and we often disagreed on much, but he seemed to still suggest that he'd at least given things a think and heard people out before forming his opinions. But his work started getting less and less appealing, and finally about ten years ago he said something disparaging in passing about the Occupy Movement which was so thoughtless, something that indicated he didn't even try to take them seriously, and he lost me for good.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:42 AM on February 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
I loved his work then. He didn't suffer fools, and we often disagreed on much, but he seemed to still suggest that he'd at least given things a think and heard people out before forming his opinions. But his work started getting less and less appealing, and finally about ten years ago he said something disparaging in passing about the Occupy Movement which was so thoughtless, something that indicated he didn't even try to take them seriously, and he lost me for good.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:42 AM on February 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
Knew him irl. Funny. Very funny. Not remotely smug—if he was, he would have been a Metafite.
posted by Ideefixe at 9:12 AM on February 16, 2022 [18 favorites]
posted by Ideefixe at 9:12 AM on February 16, 2022 [18 favorites]
That 'foreigners piece' was a ill-advised idea at the time, a unconscionable idea now but surely the satirical intent is at least evident. It's Alf Garnett in article form. I come under the Irish heading FWIW.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 9:13 AM on February 16, 2022
posted by GallonOfAlan at 9:13 AM on February 16, 2022
Giving a typewriter to assholes is a lot like giving pistols and ammo to teenage boys.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:26 AM on February 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:26 AM on February 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
GallonOfAlan: That 'foreigners piece' was a ill-advised idea at the time, a unconscionable idea now but surely the satirical intent is at least evident.
May I direct you to fedward's comment above.
posted by tzikeh at 9:30 AM on February 16, 2022
May I direct you to fedward's comment above.
posted by tzikeh at 9:30 AM on February 16, 2022
“He told the best stories. He had the most remarkable friends. And he devoted himself to them and his family in a way that would have totally ruined his shtick had anyone ever found out,” Sagal said.
I mean, that's a goddamn tragedy. It's too bad that being a republican glibertarian robbed him of the joy of living your truest self authentically, regardless of other people's opinions.
.
posted by amanda at 10:17 AM on February 16, 2022 [4 favorites]
I mean, that's a goddamn tragedy. It's too bad that being a republican glibertarian robbed him of the joy of living your truest self authentically, regardless of other people's opinions.
.
posted by amanda at 10:17 AM on February 16, 2022 [4 favorites]
I met him once. A friend and I had to interview him for a student newspaper when he was on tour in New Zealand promoting Holidays in Hell. He was courteous and warm to two complete dummies and plied us with daytime beers out of the hotel room minibar, a generous gesture given the cost of minibar booze in late 80s New Zealand. I had read Republican Party Reptile and found it HILARIOUS because I was a teenage boy.
I have come to realise the awfulness of his politics and attitudes over several decades. It may have taken longer because of that experience. I suppose at some level, Holidays in Hell and Parliament of Whores were propaganda for or at least of a piece with the worldview that brought us neoliberalism: government is useless, politicians are always venal, the market knows best, the left are nice but naive unless they're really left in which case they're nasty.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 11:37 AM on February 16, 2022 [6 favorites]
I have come to realise the awfulness of his politics and attitudes over several decades. It may have taken longer because of that experience. I suppose at some level, Holidays in Hell and Parliament of Whores were propaganda for or at least of a piece with the worldview that brought us neoliberalism: government is useless, politicians are always venal, the market knows best, the left are nice but naive unless they're really left in which case they're nasty.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 11:37 AM on February 16, 2022 [6 favorites]
Now that I think about it, he was smoking little cigarillos and offered me one (I was just learning to smoke at that time because I had ambitions to be Sophisticated). Lung cancer death doesn't suprise.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:19 PM on February 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:19 PM on February 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
I thought that National Lampoon was the shit when I was about thirteen or fourteen, but much later on, as an adult, I pulled them out and, after a quick skim through stuff that I would read and re-read in high school, I threw them out in embarrassment that I ever thought that this stuff was funny.
Also my take. I just watched Drunk Stoned Brilliant Dead a few weeks ago about the magazine and was actually surprised at just HOW sexist and elitist it was in some ways. It was a part of my teenage years and I have a soft spot in it for that but the movie was a tough watch in some ways. O'Rourke was in the movie, seeming a lot like the older O'Rourke that matches wenestvedt's description, but man I remember when he was regularly writing about politics for Rolling Stone in the... 90s? I left this tweet on Segal's remembrance tweet. I'll always remember him as the "What the fuck, huh?! ...what the fucking fuck?!" guy.
Sorry for your loss, Ideefixe.
posted by jessamyn at 1:20 PM on February 16, 2022 [5 favorites]
Also my take. I just watched Drunk Stoned Brilliant Dead a few weeks ago about the magazine and was actually surprised at just HOW sexist and elitist it was in some ways. It was a part of my teenage years and I have a soft spot in it for that but the movie was a tough watch in some ways. O'Rourke was in the movie, seeming a lot like the older O'Rourke that matches wenestvedt's description, but man I remember when he was regularly writing about politics for Rolling Stone in the... 90s? I left this tweet on Segal's remembrance tweet. I'll always remember him as the "What the fuck, huh?! ...what the fucking fuck?!" guy.
Sorry for your loss, Ideefixe.
posted by jessamyn at 1:20 PM on February 16, 2022 [5 favorites]
I tried to read one of his books once, didn't get very far. But this just popped up on Facebook and I laughed ...
I have often been called a Nazi, and, although it is unfair, I don't let it bother me. I don't let it bother me for one simple reason. No one has ever had a fantasy about being tied to a bed and sexually ravished by someone dressed as a liberal.“
posted by philip-random at 1:20 PM on February 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
I have often been called a Nazi, and, although it is unfair, I don't let it bother me. I don't let it bother me for one simple reason. No one has ever had a fantasy about being tied to a bed and sexually ravished by someone dressed as a liberal.“
posted by philip-random at 1:20 PM on February 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm trying to recall the recent thread where this struck me, but there seems to be a strong mood here of "Yeah, X was an asshole who said racist/sexist/homophobic/xenophobic things, but, boy, do I like their music/writing/films." And this admiration seems to paper over flaws that in someone who is not a MeFi Fave™ would be grounds for the usual excoriation.
No-one is all hero or all villain exclusively, the Republican Party aside, but I find a bit distressing the notion that someone being charming or witty or kind to select people in private life buys them a whole lot of forgiveness for saying shitty things on a large and very public stage.
posted by the sobsister at 1:42 PM on February 16, 2022 [4 favorites]
No-one is all hero or all villain exclusively, the Republican Party aside, but I find a bit distressing the notion that someone being charming or witty or kind to select people in private life buys them a whole lot of forgiveness for saying shitty things on a large and very public stage.
posted by the sobsister at 1:42 PM on February 16, 2022 [4 favorites]
It really doesn’t and he was a total shit whose career probably helped get us Trump, however much he himself mocked the man.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:00 PM on February 16, 2022
posted by aspersioncast at 5:00 PM on February 16, 2022
As a kid, I used to check out books from the library's "humor section", and no adult paid close enough attention to what I was reading. I read a lot of Bob-Hope-memoirs, which I assumed were funny because he was famous and wrote sentences shaped like jokes. It was mostly toothless name-dropping, support of any war, and bottomless sexism that did not jibe with what I actually laughed at. During the same period, I was reading Jack-Douglas-memoirs; you may not remember him now, but he was a sort of playboy-philosopher-swinger with a Japanese wife who gamely allowed herself to be used as a prop symbolizing nubile imbecility. Again, the books were filed in the "humor" section, so I assumed he was funny even though I didn't find it funny.
P.J. O'Rourke falls in the same bin as them: what he says has the shape of humor, but now that I am an adult I can confidently say he is not funny. I heard an obituary for him on the BBC World news this morning and could not square what the journalist said with what I understand.
posted by acrasis at 5:49 PM on February 16, 2022 [4 favorites]
P.J. O'Rourke falls in the same bin as them: what he says has the shape of humor, but now that I am an adult I can confidently say he is not funny. I heard an obituary for him on the BBC World news this morning and could not square what the journalist said with what I understand.
posted by acrasis at 5:49 PM on February 16, 2022 [4 favorites]
It's too bad that being a republican glibertarian robbed him of the joy of living your truest self
If the Trump Years should have taught us anything, it's that people can be kind, friendly, and even empathetic towards individuals and people in their circle - family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, members of their church - and still support horrendous policies and ideas and concepts and politicians.
He wasn't robbed of living his truest self. It's just that his truest self, like that of many other conservatives, had limitations that often appear inconsistent, contradictory or incoherent to those of us with a more liberal bent.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:01 PM on February 16, 2022 [8 favorites]
If the Trump Years should have taught us anything, it's that people can be kind, friendly, and even empathetic towards individuals and people in their circle - family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, members of their church - and still support horrendous policies and ideas and concepts and politicians.
He wasn't robbed of living his truest self. It's just that his truest self, like that of many other conservatives, had limitations that often appear inconsistent, contradictory or incoherent to those of us with a more liberal bent.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:01 PM on February 16, 2022 [8 favorites]
« Older Through an Implant Darkly | Thoughts on writing a Minecraft server from... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Silvery Fish at 3:16 PM on February 15, 2022 [1 favorite]