Ugly girls are only seen by other ugly girls.
February 15, 2022 8:44 PM   Subscribe

from Jessa Crispin's tinyletter, circa 2017 (some tarot discussion; CW, suicide): "It starts in childhood, really. Pretty girls notice their fathers or other boys or men on the street noticing them, and they modify their behavior, their speech, their mannerisms to increase that attention. Ugly girls aren't seen, so their loose limbs don't find control, their tone of voice is not modulated. They can't figure out how to make themselves be seen because it has never happened."

"Ugly girls are only seen by other ugly girls. Here they are, dragging their heavy luggage up a flight of stairs as a sea of men pass by, without even thinking to stop and help. Here they are, sitting in bars trying to hide their despair behind their book. Their ugliness can be an objective beauty, flashing eyes and strong noses and swanny necks. But if it's not subjective, if the desired gender doesn't respond, if the parents don't respond to it, if it's complicated and grown-into, if it doesn't attract, then it settles on the girl like ugliness. Christine Chubbuck was striking. But I can't tell if I can see that only because I'm a fellow ugly girl, of the long untouched variety, the men will call me their kindred souls and then marry someone prettier and softer variety. Because in her posture and manner is the weight of the undesired."
posted by snerson (4 comments total)

This post was deleted for the following reason: this might be better as a part of a wider post/conversation on beauty standards or perhaps beauty standards and mental health, but as is, there are so many assertions here that seem questionable that as a stand-alone piece it's unfortunately more likely to spark arguments than thoughtful examination of multiple issues (and a lot of arguing back and forth about "are these women ugly?," for example, would not be a great discussion to have) -- taz



 
I feel like this is a thing that happens with women who become best friends with gay men, too. Those men aren't looking at those women sexually but ARE responding to their personality and their presence and interest... I personally have known women from my younger years who had their entire (for lack of a better term) training derailed by being besties with a gay man and not learning how to draw other kinds of attention.
posted by hippybear at 9:08 PM on February 15, 2022 [1 favorite]


So much truth.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:18 PM on February 15, 2022


I am... kind of uncomfortable with this FPP?

Male and female experiences of society are obviously different, but this gets pretty close to incel territory for me. It's reflectively sympathetic to the perspective of someone who shot herself live on-air because of a tangle of mental health issues bound up with a lack of success in relationships. I'm trying to imagine my reaction if the essay had been about a man shooting himself while children watched, because he felt that women wouldn't sleep with him because of his appearance?
Christine is not great, but it did implant this thought in my head: what would it have taken to keep Christine Chubbuck alive? How much societal reorganization, how much sweeping change to our culture would have to happen for her to have been at peace? Not, how do we get men to want to sleep with ugly women, although sure why not that, but, how do we give our marginalized space?
I mean... I would question a lot of the assumptions here, and they remind me strongly of assumptions made by incels.

Firstly, being conventionally attractive (relative to whatever is considered attractive where you are) is an advantage, but not being conventionally attractive isn't exactly an insurmountable barrier to success in relationships - ask me how I know.

Secondly, why are we just accepting the idea that Chubbuck was ugly? I'm... not seeing it?

From the essay: The beautiful get better job opportunities, they get on tv no matter if they've got anything to say.

Chubbuck was... literally a news anchor? On TV?

I'm all for reorganising society to give less weight to physical appearance, but I think this essay is looking for solutions in the wrong places. What Chubbuck needed was support and mental health care, not a revolutionary society where men would deign to sleep with news anchors.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 12:56 AM on February 16, 2022 [4 favorites]


I did not understand the article. Jessa Crispin sounds unhinged, and if you google her, she's not ugly and she IS unhinged. So ... people should be more careful about what they read.
posted by Didnt_do_enough at 1:18 AM on February 16, 2022


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