A peek into Montréal's mastery of snow
February 19, 2022 2:30 PM Subscribe
Many cities in snowy climates have routines for keeping streets clear, typically shoving snow aside into piles that can grow and grow over the course of winter. Fewer cities have anything like Montréal’s well-choreographed snow removal operations (le déneigement), which clear sidewalks, bike paths, and streets by transporting and eliminating snow altogether.
It is indeed fascinating. I have been to Montreal many times, winter and summer, and I had only vaguely noticed that it lacks the towering pyramids and ridges of snow in parking lots that are the hallmark of Ontario cities all winter. This makes the process clearer.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:56 PM on February 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:56 PM on February 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
If you're interested in snow removal then you might also be interested in this report about a scheme in Sundsvall, Sweden, to collect snow in a pit, insulate it and use it for cooling through the summer.
posted by biffa at 2:56 PM on February 19, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by biffa at 2:56 PM on February 19, 2022 [7 favorites]
A few years back we had an unusually long stretch of temperatures below freezing combined with multiple large snowstorms. The plows pushed the snow aside until there was literally no place left to put it.
One day I was surprised to see front loaders scooping snow into dump trucks. The huge piles were carted away and the sidewalks were clear again even though it was too cold for the snow to melt. I have no idea where they took it, but at least on that one occasion my little town had the snow under control.
posted by Surely This at 3:03 PM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
One day I was surprised to see front loaders scooping snow into dump trucks. The huge piles were carted away and the sidewalks were clear again even though it was too cold for the snow to melt. I have no idea where they took it, but at least on that one occasion my little town had the snow under control.
posted by Surely This at 3:03 PM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Using domestic waste heat was great, as was reusing the quarry.
Does Montreal need cooling in the summers? Will they? I’m sure they e worked out how to use their quarry full of snow for it, if they do!
posted by clew at 3:31 PM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Does Montreal need cooling in the summers? Will they? I’m sure they e worked out how to use their quarry full of snow for it, if they do!
posted by clew at 3:31 PM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Ottawa is like this, but it's less efficient about it. First they leave the snow to garden into miserable ice ridges for a week and then they start removing it. It is still cool to watch them do it, mind you, but it would be more impressive if it didn't take so long.
One of those tremendously interesting and unexpected experiences in my life was getting caught behind the crew clearing show on the 401 through Toronto in a blizzard. It is a well-choreographed maneuver, with trucks starting in the center express lanes pushing a huge plume of snow over a lane and then another truck following a few feet behind to push it to the next lane and the next and the next and on the edge, plows weave on and off exits to clear those. It was impressive as hell.
posted by jacquilynne at 3:55 PM on February 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
One of those tremendously interesting and unexpected experiences in my life was getting caught behind the crew clearing show on the 401 through Toronto in a blizzard. It is a well-choreographed maneuver, with trucks starting in the center express lanes pushing a huge plume of snow over a lane and then another truck following a few feet behind to push it to the next lane and the next and the next and on the edge, plows weave on and off exits to clear those. It was impressive as hell.
posted by jacquilynne at 3:55 PM on February 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
Since the author makes a comparison to Toronto, I think one of the reasons Montreal can handle more snow is also city planning. Downtown residential Toronto has much narrower streets and sidewalks, which allow for much less accumulation of plowed snow. Even getting to all of them is difficult with larger equipment. Also, I just realized it's Saturday night and I'm commenting on Montreal snow removal because I obviously have nothing better to do….damn.
posted by brachiopod at 4:11 PM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by brachiopod at 4:11 PM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
I can still recall that old newspaper quote when a reporter asked dancehall DJ Yellowman how he liked Canada after landing in Montreal during a brutal February blizzard: "Mon, It's Cold."
posted by ovvl at 6:04 PM on February 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by ovvl at 6:04 PM on February 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
I remember hearing one precipitous year that Boston couldn’t plow anymore because they dump snow directly in the harbor
In the 2015 snowpocalypse (when we got four blizzards in a row with no melting in between), they dumped snow next to the harbor, in one giant pile that didn't fully melt until June. And city officials kept getting asked about Montreal.
posted by adamg at 6:52 PM on February 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
In the 2015 snowpocalypse (when we got four blizzards in a row with no melting in between), they dumped snow next to the harbor, in one giant pile that didn't fully melt until June. And city officials kept getting asked about Montreal.
posted by adamg at 6:52 PM on February 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
Heh, here in Denver the plan seems to be "Problems with snow? Sucks to be you!" You hardly ever see the city plow, at least in the neighborhoods I've lived. This was awesome and other cities that deal with snow should get with the program.
posted by evilDoug at 7:28 PM on February 19, 2022
posted by evilDoug at 7:28 PM on February 19, 2022
If only the city extended its snow removal policies to the public alleyways that exist behind most housing blocks in Montreal. After more than two decades of back and forth, and fighting with the borough, my neighbors and I along three separate streets pool our funds each winter and hire a contractor to plow these alleys so that we can access our homes/parking/etc.
But wait, there's more. Montreal has tried, numerous times, to charge us per square meter of snow that is removed from the alley and pushed into the street. We've petitioned the borough for a single parking spot to be reserved during winter time so we can store snow until the city can come and remove it after a snowfall, but no: it's inspectors and window-displayed stickers on the front of the house with square footage allotments, or fines for our contractor.
So we were faced with two choices: hire a contractor willing to risk the fines of street deposits, or one who will remove the snow themselves, which is quite expensive. We've elected to do both, and allot a certain amount for truckloads of snow removal each year.
While this might sound like a petty complaint, not having access to the public alleys, which Montreal is ostensibly in charge of maintaining and clearing, is a legitimate safety issue. Several years ago a home on our block burned down because on that side of the street, owners had not put together their own snow clearing coalition. Despite being located two blocks from a firehouse, fire services were unable to access the rear of the home with their equipment.
posted by jordantwodelta at 8:57 PM on February 19, 2022 [12 favorites]
But wait, there's more. Montreal has tried, numerous times, to charge us per square meter of snow that is removed from the alley and pushed into the street. We've petitioned the borough for a single parking spot to be reserved during winter time so we can store snow until the city can come and remove it after a snowfall, but no: it's inspectors and window-displayed stickers on the front of the house with square footage allotments, or fines for our contractor.
So we were faced with two choices: hire a contractor willing to risk the fines of street deposits, or one who will remove the snow themselves, which is quite expensive. We've elected to do both, and allot a certain amount for truckloads of snow removal each year.
While this might sound like a petty complaint, not having access to the public alleys, which Montreal is ostensibly in charge of maintaining and clearing, is a legitimate safety issue. Several years ago a home on our block burned down because on that side of the street, owners had not put together their own snow clearing coalition. Despite being located two blocks from a firehouse, fire services were unable to access the rear of the home with their equipment.
posted by jordantwodelta at 8:57 PM on February 19, 2022 [12 favorites]
Does Montreal need cooling in the summers? Will they? I’m sure they e worked out how to use their quarry full of snow for it, if they do!
Oh yeah it needs it, it's a hot & humid time of the year. But none of that snow is usable for this, too distant from homes/offices.
I have a driveway now, so at least I'm spared the task of moving the car when there's an operation (don't laugh it's really a huge issue sometimes), but I've been locked in a few times. Before the city snow blower comes to blow it in the truck they use plows to make a big long pile of snow along the street and you can't go through this with a car, it's super dense and sometimes very high, so you have to wait for it to be picked up. Usually not too long though.
Jordantwodelta, there's definitely a tension between most central boroughs and alley parking. I think it's plateau & rosemont who are trying to get rid of them altogether. I'm surprised the fire department isn't equipped to go everywhere snow or not. And if they're not equipped I'm even more surprised it's not mandatory for residents to get those cleared for safety reasons.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 9:35 PM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Oh yeah it needs it, it's a hot & humid time of the year. But none of that snow is usable for this, too distant from homes/offices.
I have a driveway now, so at least I'm spared the task of moving the car when there's an operation (don't laugh it's really a huge issue sometimes), but I've been locked in a few times. Before the city snow blower comes to blow it in the truck they use plows to make a big long pile of snow along the street and you can't go through this with a car, it's super dense and sometimes very high, so you have to wait for it to be picked up. Usually not too long though.
Jordantwodelta, there's definitely a tension between most central boroughs and alley parking. I think it's plateau & rosemont who are trying to get rid of them altogether. I'm surprised the fire department isn't equipped to go everywhere snow or not. And if they're not equipped I'm even more surprised it's not mandatory for residents to get those cleared for safety reasons.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 9:35 PM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Here in Kingston, I delight in seeing what I call the Snow Eater. Admittedly, the snow ridges lining the streets have been to be pretty dire for them to deploy the Snow Eater, but my god, when it does, I am like "OOOOOH".
posted by Kitteh at 5:11 AM on February 20, 2022
posted by Kitteh at 5:11 AM on February 20, 2022
Wow. So cool. I really wish Seattle had a quarter of the investment of Montreal's snow management
posted by ellerhodes at 8:10 AM on February 20, 2022
posted by ellerhodes at 8:10 AM on February 20, 2022
Le déneigement! C'est tres bien!
Montreal is just the best city I've even been to in the winter. It just deals with everything wintery without a big fuss, and then they have all these festivals, a big jazz one, the comedy festival, a big winter carnival. You can thrive in the winter there. Thrive.
posted by zenon at 8:36 AM on February 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Montreal is just the best city I've even been to in the winter. It just deals with everything wintery without a big fuss, and then they have all these festivals, a big jazz one, the comedy festival, a big winter carnival. You can thrive in the winter there. Thrive.
posted by zenon at 8:36 AM on February 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Ooh, that's my friend Hillary who wrote that! Toronto misses Hillary: our loss is MTL's gain.
Toronto had a snow melter, but I think they stopped using it after a city worker (non-fatally) got their butt caught in it somehow. This was not all "loltoronto": it happened on a street near me, and I drove past the aftermath.
posted by scruss at 10:56 AM on February 20, 2022
Toronto had a snow melter, but I think they stopped using it after a city worker (non-fatally) got their butt caught in it somehow. This was not all "loltoronto": it happened on a street near me, and I drove past the aftermath.
posted by scruss at 10:56 AM on February 20, 2022
Even in our fifth winter here in Montreal, my partner and I still rush to the window or even outside to the balcony (if it's not covered in snow) when we hear the snow removal trucks, to watch. It's such a neat system, with the giant machinery to push the snow into neat lines and then suck it up and blow it into waiting 18-wheelers trundling down our city street. It's also fun to see the little enclosed sidewalk plows zip back and forth beforehand, though if I'm out walking I'm always worried about ending up in path of one of them, because they are quick.
posted by kittensyay at 12:12 PM on February 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by kittensyay at 12:12 PM on February 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
In Montreal bike paths are cleared to dry pavement while sidewalks are left icy and treacherous. This irks me daily.
posted by Jode at 1:00 PM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Jode at 1:00 PM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
In Montreal bike paths are cleared to dry pavement while sidewalks are left icy and treacherous. This irks me daily.
My experience is that it varies a lot per borough. Both in quality of bike path clearing and sidewalk clearing.
I've heard from somebody familiar with the snow operations that once a certain amount of ice has managed to accumulate on the sidewalk, it's basically lost. None of the city machinery can get through the ice ang bring it back to concrete. Which actually makes diligent clearing of sidewalk super important. On sidewalk with no utility pole/tree in them, they'll sometime use the street plow lifted to fit the side walk to do a pass at removing the iced up bits.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:07 PM on February 20, 2022
My experience is that it varies a lot per borough. Both in quality of bike path clearing and sidewalk clearing.
I've heard from somebody familiar with the snow operations that once a certain amount of ice has managed to accumulate on the sidewalk, it's basically lost. None of the city machinery can get through the ice ang bring it back to concrete. Which actually makes diligent clearing of sidewalk super important. On sidewalk with no utility pole/tree in them, they'll sometime use the street plow lifted to fit the side walk to do a pass at removing the iced up bits.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:07 PM on February 20, 2022
On sidewalk with no utility pole/tree in them, they'll sometime use the street plow lifted to fit the side walk to do a pass at removing the iced up bits.
I see this often in front of my place. They then send the smaller sidewalk plow back over it. Sometimes this repeats multiple times.
posted by jordantwodelta at 6:39 AM on February 21, 2022
I see this often in front of my place. They then send the smaller sidewalk plow back over it. Sometimes this repeats multiple times.
posted by jordantwodelta at 6:39 AM on February 21, 2022
In Montreal bike paths are cleared to dry pavement while sidewalks are left icy and treacherous. This irks me daily.
It's a lot easier for me to walk on an icy sidewalk than ride on icy pavement. If the roads are icy then even if the conditions are otherwise good I'll still end up taking the bus to work.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:32 PM on February 22, 2022
It's a lot easier for me to walk on an icy sidewalk than ride on icy pavement. If the roads are icy then even if the conditions are otherwise good I'll still end up taking the bus to work.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:32 PM on February 22, 2022
A particularly appropriate thread to read, as I sit here in my Montreal apartment, hearing the snow clearing machinery doing their thing outside my front door!
And yes, Montreal has snow clearing down to an absolute art. As a disabled person, I do appreciate that after a good clearing, you can actually see the clean cut of the sidewalk curb!
In recent years, they've instituted two websites to be able to monitor snow removal operations around the city (although not all areas are covered). The City of Montreal's snow map site, and the more recent Info-Neige, which now also has a smartphone app, so that I can get text and/or email notifications on which of my "favourite" streets are due to be cleared.
I must say that I absolutely love and much prefer the app, as I can automatically get notified, without having to trudge outside to see if the snow parking signs have been put up (sometimes they are late in doing so), or even check on it if I'm not at home.
If you'd like a closer look at the incredible mounds of snow at the Angrignon snow dump; here's one of my favourite drone videos of that location. It's a veritable choreography of snow trucks dumping their loads, the snow being nudged into cleaner lines for the giant snowblower to fling to the top of the towering snow mountain.
posted by Jade Dragon at 12:38 PM on February 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
And yes, Montreal has snow clearing down to an absolute art. As a disabled person, I do appreciate that after a good clearing, you can actually see the clean cut of the sidewalk curb!
In recent years, they've instituted two websites to be able to monitor snow removal operations around the city (although not all areas are covered). The City of Montreal's snow map site, and the more recent Info-Neige, which now also has a smartphone app, so that I can get text and/or email notifications on which of my "favourite" streets are due to be cleared.
I must say that I absolutely love and much prefer the app, as I can automatically get notified, without having to trudge outside to see if the snow parking signs have been put up (sometimes they are late in doing so), or even check on it if I'm not at home.
If you'd like a closer look at the incredible mounds of snow at the Angrignon snow dump; here's one of my favourite drone videos of that location. It's a veritable choreography of snow trucks dumping their loads, the snow being nudged into cleaner lines for the giant snowblower to fling to the top of the towering snow mountain.
posted by Jade Dragon at 12:38 PM on February 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
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posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 2:34 PM on February 19, 2022 [5 favorites]