Body Chill
March 13, 2022 2:47 PM   Subscribe

 
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posted by Silvery Fish at 2:56 PM on March 13, 2022


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posted by tclark at 2:56 PM on March 13, 2022


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posted by mumimor at 2:57 PM on March 13, 2022


Hmm.. I always liked him. There's something unique about his presentation and he was in some movies I have a lot of fondness for.
posted by latkes at 3:02 PM on March 13, 2022 [6 favorites]


Oh bummer... reading the links it seems he was abusive to Marlee Matlin. May young men today grow up learning not to be like men before.
posted by latkes at 3:06 PM on March 13, 2022 [15 favorites]


aw crap

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posted by lalochezia at 3:08 PM on March 13, 2022 [2 favorites]


Great actor. Total asshole. But, man, what a great actor. It was a thread here that recommended Smoke. Superb recommendation. I am increasingly sad to see the actors of my mom's generation pass away, as well. I guess we're not kids anymore.
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 3:18 PM on March 13, 2022 [4 favorites]


I might have seen movies he’d “starred” in when I was too young to really grasp who he was, but Until the End of the World was probably the first movie I saw where I could recognize him and think, huh, this guy, he’s… different. There’s always in my mind been something very stiff, very mannered, very pained about his presence in films. The description in the main link of his role in Lost in Space, that he seemed miserable the whole time is weirdly apt of a lot of roles I’ve seen him in. It suited him well in the Marvel movies, where it just felt like he had little but contempt for everything going on around him. I know this is starting to sound as if I disliked his acting or his roles, but I don’t, and did not. While he seemed very much like an actor I wouldn’t ever want to meet, like someone who would probably be unpleasant at best to talk to, I loved watching him.

Until the End of the World, and just as much, Smoke, there are the moments when his impatient/dismissive/abrasive facade cracks, and he just opened up, and it was like a statue, or the sun, or something that should never seem to need to ask, crumbing and reaching out for help you were shocked it needed. Nearly blind and lost in the pachinko parlor in Until the End of the World, reaching out to Claire, pleading, “Help me, I don’t know where I am.” or in Smoke, paging through the photos, encouraged by (Harvey Keitel’s incredible performance as) Augie Wren, finally coming across a photo of his late wife, and how his face just crumbles, and the loss that he’s been holding in the whole time just breaks through, there are actors who are maybe more relatable, whose performances are easier and more accessible, but there was something about his presence, his standoffishness that worked so well for me. I’ll miss having new performances from him.
posted by Ghidorah at 3:25 PM on March 13, 2022 [29 favorites]


I might have been the one who recommended “Smoke” as it’s a sleeper favourite of mine and definitely the movie I like William Hurt best in.

I’ve also really enjoyed his supreme assholery in the Marvel flicks as General Thunderbolt Ross. And “Body Heat” is a bonkers over-the-top noir movie for the ages.

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posted by wabbittwax at 3:27 PM on March 13, 2022 [3 favorites]


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posted by kinnakeet at 3:30 PM on March 13, 2022


Great actor, but yeah I read only in the past year about how he treated--abused--Marlee Matlin. I put his name on the (ever growing) list of talented artists with questionable-at-best morals.
posted by zardoz at 3:30 PM on March 13, 2022 [1 favorite]


Ghidorah, wow, that was perfect
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 3:33 PM on March 13, 2022 [5 favorites]


There’s always in my mind been something very stiff, very mannered, very pained about his presence in films.

This is really well-put. It might be one reason, or the reason, I never cared much for him as an actor. He seemed wooden to me.

But directors and audiences certainly saw him as the right actor for a great many parts, and I'm sorry he died so young.
posted by Well I never at 3:51 PM on March 13, 2022 [3 favorites]


"Sometimes it is hard for us to believe that the Good Lord has a plan…this is one of those times. I didn’t know Alex Marshall personally…but after speaking with his loved ones, I feel as though I did."

-From The Big Chill.


posted by clavdivs at 3:52 PM on March 13, 2022 [3 favorites]


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posted by Lyme Drop at 4:05 PM on March 13, 2022


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posted by pt68 at 4:15 PM on March 13, 2022


Ghidorah, perfect summation. I’m a big fan of ‘Until the End of the World’ and there are just so many cringey moments in his performance and yet, still, there’s something oddly endearing to him. Though in ‘LiS’ it’s almost all cringe (but fortunately enough Gary Oldman to balance some of that out).
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 4:16 PM on March 13, 2022 [2 favorites]


I loved him in Broadcast News. There was something so fun about him playing just smart enough to know he wasn’t as smart as anyone else around him - and never letting it stop him.
posted by Mchelly at 4:19 PM on March 13, 2022 [16 favorites]


WAIT. What. Dammit.
In college we had a few William Hurt marathons - Kiss of the Spider Woman, Altered States, The Big Chill, Body Heat, Children of a Lesser God. Found out he was not such a great guy later.
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posted by Glinn at 4:33 PM on March 13, 2022 [3 favorites]


I wanted to put in a mention of "I Love You To Death" and the improbable comedic stoner duo of William Hurt and Keanu Reeves. I particularly remember from that movie a bit of physical comedy between a low hanging ceiling lamp and Hurt that was just gold. RIP.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 4:47 PM on March 13, 2022 [8 favorites]


Sad to see this. A great actor who should have had some good years ahead of him.
posted by rpfields at 4:52 PM on March 13, 2022 [2 favorites]


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posted by djseafood at 4:57 PM on March 13, 2022


Weirdly, although I'd seen some of his stuff over the years (The Big Chill, Altered States, Gorky Park, etc.), I'd not thought about him much lately except when he showed up in The Incredible Hulk and a few subsequent MCU things. I think that I'd been aware that he hadn't been good to the women in his life (although I didn't know how bad things had been with Matlin), and that may have influenced my feeling that he was a good choice for "Thunderbolt" Ross, the Army general in charge of dealing with the Hulk (and whose handling of same might be just as responsible for the Hulk's devastation as the Hulk himself) and who went on to likewise be an asshole to the Avengers. He could and did do much more sensitive work; I'd forgotten about Smoke, which is a damn shame because it was set in Park Slope about the time that I lived there.

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posted by Halloween Jack at 5:09 PM on March 13, 2022 [1 favorite]


I wanted to put in a mention of "I Love You To Death" and the improbable comedic stoner duo of William Hurt and Keanu Reeves. I particularly remember from that movie a bit of physical comedy between a low hanging ceiling lamp and Hurt that was just gold. RIP.

I was just thinking of that one: take two guys who are both temperamentally inclined to play somber, self-serious characters and cast them as a pair of mismatched hit men in a frothy dark comedy. No reason that should work, but it does.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:10 PM on March 13, 2022 [2 favorites]


brutal but ...

How do you fuck that up?

I'm having a hard time imagining anyone else in that role, delivering those few lines.


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posted by philip-random at 5:15 PM on March 13, 2022 [1 favorite]


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posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:32 PM on March 13, 2022


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posted by johnxlibris at 5:37 PM on March 13, 2022


Though same, latkes. :/
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:43 PM on March 13, 2022 [1 favorite]


This one hurts. He's basically the exact same age as my parents and we had a family friend growing up who looked just like him. Surprised "The Accidental Tourist" hasn't been named yet, that was always a favorite but I haven't seen it in over 20 years (or Smoke for that matter).
posted by St. Oops at 5:53 PM on March 13, 2022 [4 favorites]


I half-remember him throwing a chair through a glass door (?) to get to Kathleen Turner in Body Heat. Did that happen? That film stuck in my memory as one definition of "smoldering." The heat and the barely suppressed lust.

Yeah, here it is.

Saw him in a bunch of things. Liked his acting a lot. Too bad he was an asshole irl.

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posted by the sobsister at 5:53 PM on March 13, 2022 [4 favorites]


He read the opening section of the audiobook for Hearts In Atlantis.
That was really well done. I'll remember him for that.
(and I'll remember Kathleen Turner well from Body Heat)
posted by MtDewd at 6:20 PM on March 13, 2022 [1 favorite]


Great actor. Total asshole. But, man, what a great actor.

Unfortunately, that seems to be a common dichotomy with highly talented people. But, yeah, one of the finest actors of his era. 71, though. Damn.

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posted by Thorzdad at 6:22 PM on March 13, 2022 [3 favorites]


I watched Altered States on a small black and white when it released on TV and honestly, that movie creeped the hell out of me.

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posted by JustSayNoDawg at 6:42 PM on March 13, 2022 [4 favorites]


Er, he wasn't just an asshole, unless that's what we now call people who beat and rape their partners?

It's up to everyone as individuals to decide how someone's behavior impacts or doesn't impact their feelings about that person's art. However I'm really surprised people here are describing abuse as being an "asshole". Lots of people are assholes without physically assaulting their (much younger in this case) partners.
posted by oneirodynia at 7:00 PM on March 13, 2022 [13 favorites]


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posted by xtian at 7:14 PM on March 13, 2022


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posted by achrise at 7:20 PM on March 13, 2022


I was never a huge fan, maybe I just never saw him in his most lauded roles. But the last thing I saw was the Mythic Quest episode where he was opposite F. Murray Abraham, and that seems fitting.

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posted by credulous at 7:27 PM on March 13, 2022 [3 favorites]


Always loved his work. Probably the first actor whose movies I watched solely because his name was on the marquee.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:30 PM on March 13, 2022 [2 favorites]


RIP John Hurt
RIP John Heard
now RIP William Hurt
... William Heard, whoever/wherever you are, watch your back -- you're likely next.
(something more mysterious about the secret square than we were led to believe...)

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posted by zaixfeep at 7:38 PM on March 13, 2022 [8 favorites]


The links I read were vague, but to be clear, he raped Marlee Matlin, in addition to the psychological abuse and nonsexual violence he committed against her (you can literally see bruising on Matlin in Children of a Lesser God). He also physically attacked ex-partner Sandra Jennings. Brilliant actor, but I continue to wish that obituaries were willing to be comprehensive in these matters, rather than skimming over.

To be clear, I'm not criticizing the post, but commenting on the nature of news outlets' obituary practices. I so appreciate someone taking the time to create this memorial space. Seventy-one is too young, regardless of celluloid's eternity.
posted by desert outpost at 8:18 PM on March 13, 2022 [16 favorites]


It took a stint in grad school for me to fully appreciate Hurt's Big Chill line "I'm not hung up on this completion thing."
posted by morspin at 8:41 PM on March 13, 2022 [5 favorites]


I had a friend who looved that line, and I came here to, y'know, "he finally got hung up on that completion thing."

Beyond that, and perhaps to my ultimate shame, I'm a big fan of not learning too much about creative people

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posted by rhizome at 9:48 PM on March 13, 2022 [2 favorites]


He always seemed like a man in grief, standing apart from everyone but kind of yearning to connect. He could play assholes and villains but he was most at home playing men who were smart but lost. Distant, but certainly not unfeeling. Forgive me if it seems maudlin, but now that he's gone I find myself thinking of the old Shel Silverstein poem:

There's a light on in the attic.
Though the house is dark and shuttered,
I can see a flickerin' flutter,
And I know what it's about.
There's a light on in the attic.
I can see it from the outside,
And I know you're on the inside...lookin' out.


Hurt was a dark and shuttered house, with that flicker of light.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 10:11 PM on March 13, 2022 [3 favorites]


One of the absolute greats.

Rest In Peace


I didn’t know about the bad stuff. Now I don’t know what to feel. I know I thought he was wonderful.
posted by gt2 at 10:22 PM on March 13, 2022 [5 favorites]


I'd just started watching the Channel 4 (UK) series Humans the other night and was enjoying his presence in it, and on hearing this news was remembering his high points (Until the End of the World for me too, and his '80s work, and also recently Into the Wild)—but am sorry to hear about the low points. Can't one of these guys just not?
posted by rory at 1:51 AM on March 14, 2022 [2 favorites]


Also learning the extent of his dark side; FWIW, he's one of the stars of (for me) one of the best movies ever.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 4:18 AM on March 14, 2022 [1 favorite]


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posted by Gelatin at 4:22 AM on March 14, 2022


It's a matter of privilege to be able to ignore the disgusting facets of a person while appreciating other facets. It is well past time we stopped doing that, as it simply empowers them and others like them to continue their bad behaviour. As if some quantity or quality of art could somehow forgive the facts of repeated mental and physical human cruelty.

No dot from me for William Hurt.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:53 AM on March 14, 2022 [15 favorites]


^ The world would certainly be a better place if the sermon at every funeral began with those words.
posted by fairmettle at 6:16 AM on March 14, 2022 [2 favorites]


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posted by Splunge at 9:42 AM on March 14, 2022


In the fall of 1991 I watched The Doctor with a group of brand new med students. I don't think the film did all that well and it was panned by the critics but I really enjoyed it. 30 years later I decided to watch it again for only the second time and I thought it held up remarkably well, despite being an obvious period piece. Ultimately Hurt was the right person to play that role as he managed to get the part of being an egotistical jerk down to a fine art. I had no idea at the time that that was probably very close to his actual personality offscreen.
posted by drstrangelove at 9:53 AM on March 14, 2022 [2 favorites]


I loved William Hurt in these two, well underrated, films:

Altered States (1980)
Gorky Park (1983)

posted by beesbees at 10:51 AM on March 14, 2022 [4 favorites]


seanmpuckett:

It's a matter of privilege to be able to ignore the disgusting facets of a person while appreciating other facets. It is well past time we stopped doing that, as it simply empowers them and others like them to continue their bad behaviour. As if some quantity or quality of art could somehow forgive the facts of repeated mental and physical human cruelty.


1: Well, he is dead now…

2: I don’t think the world can ever work this way. I think we need to come to terms with the concept that humans are very rarely 100% good, and no one goes through life without hurting anyone. It does the world very little good to mute every person we point out to have done bad things (whatever it is… whatever it is!)

3: Be an example of good!
posted by beesbees at 11:00 AM on March 14, 2022 [6 favorites]


Sure, it's privilege to ignore the bad parts of celebrities (among others), but it can't be privilege not to know about them in the first place. Though I don't see it here, I also wouldn't think it's fair to expect people to silence a positive opinion of him after having learned these things in the same thread they're about to post in.
posted by rhizome at 11:05 AM on March 14, 2022 [3 favorites]


Proshchaniye, Comrade Inspector Remko.

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(I have read several of the followon books to Gorky Park and they are great, it's too bad there were no more Remko movies made IMHO).
posted by hearthpig at 12:35 PM on March 14, 2022 [1 favorite]


and no one goes through life without hurting anyone.

...there are degrees.
posted by pelvicsorcery at 12:47 PM on March 14, 2022 [7 favorites]


2: I don’t think the world can ever work this way. I think we need to come to terms with the concept that humans are very rarely 100% good, and no one goes through life without hurting anyone. It does the world very little good to mute every person we point out to have done bad things (whatever it is… whatever it is!)

This is so far from the case in this thread that I'm really not sure what you're getting at. "not 100% good" and raping someone are pretty far apart on the spectrum of human behavior; and William Hurt managed to be in seventeen films after Marlee Matlin's book came out.
posted by oneirodynia at 12:49 PM on March 14, 2022 [10 favorites]


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posted by kitten kaboodle at 1:09 PM on March 14, 2022


I had no knowledge of Matlin's rape allegation when I made my post, or I wouldn't have posted it.

Here's what Matlin had to say about Hurt yesterday
. She says positive things, but it should be noted that she apparently said them to a reporter when she was on the red carpet at the Critics' Choice Awards, which is not exactly the moment for deep introspection or nuance.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:25 PM on March 14, 2022 [3 favorites]


Oneirodynia:
"not 100% good" and raping someone are pretty far apart on the spectrum of human behavior; and William Hurt managed to be in seventeen films after Marlee Matlin's book came out

I didn’t know about the rape allegations against Hurt, but I’m deeply suspicious if this changes his art. I might not like him as a man, but do we really have to? If yes, it might make more sense to hate the people that hired him?

If a boomer or a runner on the set of “Taxi Driver” was a rapist, does that change the movie? Does it only count for the people that has celebrity status?

I’m arguing that there may be more humanity to find in accepting that great art can be made by horrible people, and that liking that art does not make you horrible or condone their most horrible actions.
posted by beesbees at 11:12 PM on March 14, 2022 [2 favorites]


I'm sure we agree that considering the entirety of the artist is essential to fully understanding the art. And that one must temper ones appreciation of an oeuvre by the harms done creating it.

But one can't just think about the art and the artist in isolation. One must also consider the humanity of those harmed, what was lost from the world through that damage, and how one's promotion of a toxic artist's work may further the harms done, or even encourage/validate the behaviours of other artists who may think you can get a pass to be a shitty person if you can make enough people laugh or smile or cry.

Hurt is dead. His art remains. Let's be sure that our actions in appreciating the art (if one can stand to do so) do not in any way grant a pass to the behaviour of the artist or perpetuate systems of behaviour or thought that would encourage its replication.

That's true humanity. Not just granting that an artist can be "complicated," but knowing that all people are affected by how we each think and act, and what we talk about and share and promote. Be careful, be responsible, be thoughtful, and be kind.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:29 AM on March 15, 2022 [1 favorite]


You don't need to know about Picasso to appreciate one of his paintings.

We bought into this notion that we need to know everything there is to know about an artist's life to understand and appreciate the art. If you want to think about what impact the life of Picasso had on his art, sure, you have to take all that person has ever done into consideration, but I don't think anyone would grant a pass for rape by watching a film with William Hurt in it.

It's is simply the case that we don't need to care about or know anything about William Hurt to appreciate a film he is in. Just like a shitty movie doesn't become great because it stars Mother Teresa... who was also a celebrity.
posted by beesbees at 11:15 AM on March 15, 2022 [2 favorites]


Yeah, no one here is making the argument that anyone "need(s) to know everything there is to know about an artist's life to understand and appreciate the art."
posted by oneirodynia at 2:13 PM on March 15, 2022


As reported by the Daily Moth (in ASL with captions) which centers Matlin's experience.
posted by Toddles at 8:32 PM on March 15, 2022


Yeah, no one here is making the argument that anyone "need(s) to know everything there is to know about an artist's life to understand and appreciate the art."

two comments up:

I'm sure we agree that considering the entirety of the artist is essential to fully understanding the art.
posted by philip-random at 10:29 AM on March 16, 2022 [1 favorite]


One of the film presences I remember best from my young adulthood in the eighties, when I was just starting to sort through what made for good art and what didn't.

I don't think his performance in "Kiss Of the Spider Woman" has aged anywhere near as well as some of his others, but the film made a deep impression on me nonetheless. Just before the pandemic I was able to see a stage production of Puig's adaptation of his own novel in Buenos Aires and it again blew me away despite the thick Argentine accents and slang. Without the two performances in the film it's unlikely I would have taken so much of an interest in the story.

I'm with a few of the other older folks here: even with his abusive past, this one hurts.

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posted by Sheydem-tants at 1:59 PM on March 16, 2022


Just to cut to the chase on the artist vs. art thing, if for some reason you decided you liked one of Hitler’s paintings would you be comfortable hanging it in your living room?

There appear to be two clear camps: 1) No problem, art is separate from the artist and 2) No, the stench of the artist hangs around their art.

These two camps have existed for a long time and I don’t see them reconciling any time soon.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:02 AM on March 17, 2022


I suspect the real test is, can you look at that painting and not think of Hitler every time you see it? I think a lot of people just aren't able to block out that information.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:29 AM on March 17, 2022 [3 favorites]


I'll say this much: it's pretty jarring to me to still hear Gary Glitter's "Rock 'n' Roll Part 2" at sports events.
posted by rhizome at 10:30 AM on March 17, 2022


I suspect the real test is, can you look at that painting and not think of Hitler every time you see it?

that's a good way of putting it. Makes it more of a personal decision than something imposed.

I for instance can't really give Back To The Future a pass for A. not just starring probably my least favourite lukewarm pop-actor the 1980s but positioning him as somehow cool, and B. suggesting that Chuck Berry got his moves from said uncool pop-actor.

Full disclosure. I'm not a fan of mainstream 80s anything (except maybe Prince), and I'm happy to talk about it, but I long ago gave up trying to convince everybody who thinks otherwise just how wrong they are.

it's pretty jarring to me to still hear Gary Glitter's "Rock 'n' Roll Part 2" at sports events.

But is it okay when sampled, mashed up and abused by the KLF in aid of Doctorin' The Tardis? I'm pretty sure they didn't ask Mr. Glitter's permission.
posted by philip-random at 11:13 AM on March 17, 2022


I suspect the real test is, can you look at that painting and not think of Hitler every time you see it?

For me that would be asking if I could look at the picture and filter out a particular color. Sure I could, but why would I want to? If you remove a major element it’s not the same picture.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:18 AM on March 17, 2022


But is it okay when sampled, mashed up and abused by the KLF in aid of Doctorin' The Tardis yt ?

And that was made in what, like 1988? I'm sure Glitter was a creep for a long time, but he didn't get in Official Police Trouble for another 10 years after that. I don't think I've heard Doctorin' in this century, but they're still playing RnRp2 on network TV and I'm sure his Xmas song still gets UK play.

I don't know what I'm defending or asserting here, I was just observing that cancellation doesn't always completely happen. If you didn't know who Hitler was? You might like the painting. I suppose that makes it kind of a ridiculous example, and it's the obscure offenders that are perhaps more insidious.
posted by rhizome at 2:34 PM on March 17, 2022


Philip-random, I'm gonna quote myself from a 2014 thread (and not for the first time):

Marty McFly did not invent that music, and BTTF doesn't suggest that he did. He was playing Chuck Berry's old music, and 1955 Chuck Berry heard it and that inspired his music, which Marty McFly heard decades later and then brought back to 1955. So Berry stole the music from his alternate timeline self, but any way you look at it Chuck Berry still created that music. It's a clever little tossed-off joke, you see, based on a time travel paradox.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 9:27 PM on March 17, 2022 [1 favorite]




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