Forget the Jubilee, Belize Protests and Jamaica Wants Reparations
March 22, 2022 12:03 PM Subscribe
Will and Kate's Commonwealth Tour is a traveling celebration of the Queen's Platinum Jubilee for her 70-year reign. Intended to shore up support in the Commonwealth after Barbados declared independence in 2021, the tour is not feeling very celebratory. Belize's Q’eqehi Maya people specified their message to the royal couple was "“We don’t want them to land on our land...."
Jamaica, meanwhile, recently published an open letter to Kate and Will in the Independent , similarly shunning their visit, while also demanding reparations for slavery.
Today, the Commonwealth is home 54 countries, and one-third of the world's population. It includes both advanced economies and “developing countries.” Membership is based on “free and voluntary cooperation,” with only 16 nations recognizing the monarch at their head.
Jamaica, meanwhile, recently published an open letter to Kate and Will in the Independent , similarly shunning their visit, while also demanding reparations for slavery.
Today, the Commonwealth is home 54 countries, and one-third of the world's population. It includes both advanced economies and “developing countries.” Membership is based on “free and voluntary cooperation,” with only 16 nations recognizing the monarch at their head.
But you’re still not wrong in concluding that this is a problematic thing to do…
posted by Banknote of the year at 12:26 PM on March 22, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by Banknote of the year at 12:26 PM on March 22, 2022 [11 favorites]
Violet Blue: "Belize's Q’eqehi Maya people specified their message to the royal couple was "“We don’t want them to land on our land....""
It's quite telling that that article always puts colonialism in scare quotes as if it was this strange concept that some backward natives came up with.
posted by signal at 12:41 PM on March 22, 2022 [17 favorites]
It's quite telling that that article always puts colonialism in scare quotes as if it was this strange concept that some backward natives came up with.
posted by signal at 12:41 PM on March 22, 2022 [17 favorites]
It's nice to see one thing changing in a good way for once.
posted by bleep at 12:45 PM on March 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by bleep at 12:45 PM on March 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
It'd probably cause an international incident, but I'd love to see them arrested for trespassing as they land their helicopter in defiance of locals' wishes.
It doesn't matter that they're British royals, they're just rich foreign assholes with no diplomatic standing as far as other nations are concerned. The British government has surely already appointed ambassadors to these nations, and they're not Will and Kate.
posted by explosion at 12:58 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
It doesn't matter that they're British royals, they're just rich foreign assholes with no diplomatic standing as far as other nations are concerned. The British government has surely already appointed ambassadors to these nations, and they're not Will and Kate.
posted by explosion at 12:58 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
It'd probably cause an international incident, but I'd love to see them arrested for trespassing as they land their helicopter in defiance of locals' wishes.
It doesn't matter that they're British royals, they're just rich foreign assholes with no diplomatic standing as far as other nations are concerned. The British government has surely already appointed ambassadors to these nations, and they're not Will and Kate.
I really doubt they were planning to land without whatever legal arrangements the government of Belize recognizes. It's hard to tell for sure from the article, but my impression was that there was probably no issue as far as those with property ownership or politico-legal authority over the airstrip; however, the local community was not consulted in the process of that approval. Pointing this out here not to be pedantic but rather to highlight that the disenfranchisement of indigenous people is structural, baked into the colonial-derived frameworks of land tenure that governments recognize.
posted by dusty potato at 1:11 PM on March 22, 2022 [17 favorites]
It doesn't matter that they're British royals, they're just rich foreign assholes with no diplomatic standing as far as other nations are concerned. The British government has surely already appointed ambassadors to these nations, and they're not Will and Kate.
I really doubt they were planning to land without whatever legal arrangements the government of Belize recognizes. It's hard to tell for sure from the article, but my impression was that there was probably no issue as far as those with property ownership or politico-legal authority over the airstrip; however, the local community was not consulted in the process of that approval. Pointing this out here not to be pedantic but rather to highlight that the disenfranchisement of indigenous people is structural, baked into the colonial-derived frameworks of land tenure that governments recognize.
posted by dusty potato at 1:11 PM on March 22, 2022 [17 favorites]
Jamaica, meanwhile, recently published an open letter to Kate and Will in the Independent , similarly shunning their visit, while also demanding reparations for slavery.Jamaica did no such thing. Some Jamaican people did.
posted by kickingtheground at 1:16 PM on March 22, 2022 [25 favorites]
I guess I feel like it should be obvious that if the biggest piece (or really any piece) of your country's history with another is colonialism, maybe you should extend a gracious invitation to said other country, rather than just taking the birthday party to their house?
(Or even better, obviously, don't choose the celebration of your monarchy as a time to reach out to that other country at all. Perhaps focus on reparations and amends at a different time that respects/honors the other country.)
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 1:22 PM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
(Or even better, obviously, don't choose the celebration of your monarchy as a time to reach out to that other country at all. Perhaps focus on reparations and amends at a different time that respects/honors the other country.)
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 1:22 PM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
As we saw with how they treated Harry & Meghan these people give no shits about literally anything other than their own weird little cult.
posted by bleep at 1:31 PM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by bleep at 1:31 PM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I'm savoring this. Very few things in this world activate the schadenfreude receptors in my brain like a press tour that runs straight into a ditch.
posted by grandiloquiet at 1:45 PM on March 22, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by grandiloquiet at 1:45 PM on March 22, 2022 [12 favorites]
Folks from Australia can chime in on this, but I read that Australia intends to sever their connection to the “Motherland” after the Queen passes, right? They are only keeping the connection because they like her?
posted by Melismata at 1:47 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Melismata at 1:47 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
The last few years really have been a perfect storm for this haven't they, with reductions in foreign aid in the UK after Brexit / the Pandemic, and perceived/actual tightening of immigration rules for Commonwealth citizens, the Windrush affair, general disgust in Royal antics with Andrew Windsor and the whole Harry and Megan sideshow etc.
So I guess this is where Brexit goes next, Commonwealth Countries accelerate leaving the Commonwealth. Crexit. I mean it's the next letter in the alphabet, so...
There was a time I absolutely would have known when the next Commonwealth games was scheduled and where....but I just had to go look it up. This year apparently - huh...in Birmingham .... guess it's still a thing (looking at the games website please tell me synchronized dancing with umbrellas is a demonstration sport this year...that would be awesome).
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:01 PM on March 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
So I guess this is where Brexit goes next, Commonwealth Countries accelerate leaving the Commonwealth. Crexit. I mean it's the next letter in the alphabet, so...
There was a time I absolutely would have known when the next Commonwealth games was scheduled and where....but I just had to go look it up. This year apparently - huh...in Birmingham .... guess it's still a thing (looking at the games website please tell me synchronized dancing with umbrellas is a demonstration sport this year...that would be awesome).
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:01 PM on March 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
I feel as if everything the royals do is meant to shore things up these days. Charles is said to be very conscious of how precarious their position is, but he's also as out of touch as you would think. So you have Will and Kate, who are less liked than ever due to their cluelessness and poor treatment of Harry (to say nothing of the rumors of covered-up affairs), doing stuff like this. They turn up with their big smiles and perfect outfits to places where the feeling seems to be: please go away, we are busy. Meanwhile on Twitter, their PR people plant trending topics about Kate's clothes.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:02 PM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 2:02 PM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
in Royal Antics
I missed the edit window but clearly Andrew Windsor's actions were not antics and I didn't mean to minimize, which it sounded like when I reread my comment. Replace antics with crimes (albeit without charges or convictions)
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:12 PM on March 22, 2022 [7 favorites]
I missed the edit window but clearly Andrew Windsor's actions were not antics and I didn't mean to minimize, which it sounded like when I reread my comment. Replace antics with crimes (albeit without charges or convictions)
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:12 PM on March 22, 2022 [7 favorites]
The only thing I will miss when Canada severs ties with the monarchy will be having the Crown as a clean abstract symbol of the state and its authority. I don’t really care one way or the other about the other aspects of the monarchy because they are of no practical consequence to me. I am inordinately exercised about the mindless worship of these people whose only distinguishing characteristic is (apologies in advance for the phrasing) whose twat they emerged from. And especially the breathless, brain dead reporting of K-Mid’s Latest Outfit! But that stuff, for a segment of the population, will never go away.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 2:40 PM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Turtles all the way down at 2:40 PM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Crexit.
I'm suddenly hungry for a non-existent industrially-produced snack food.
posted by clawsoon at 2:59 PM on March 22, 2022 [12 favorites]
I'm suddenly hungry for a non-existent industrially-produced snack food.
posted by clawsoon at 2:59 PM on March 22, 2022 [12 favorites]
Would be nice if the mods could switch out the Daily Mail link for an archived version, it's a hate rag that injures my country every day.
As for W&K, this is a truly delicious flop of a tour and I'm especially glad that Jamaica is giving them stick.
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 3:23 PM on March 22, 2022 [16 favorites]
As for W&K, this is a truly delicious flop of a tour and I'm especially glad that Jamaica is giving them stick.
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 3:23 PM on March 22, 2022 [16 favorites]
Crexit.
I'm suddenly hungry for a non-existent industrially-produced snack food.
Better than that, the next evolution of the cronut, this time crossbred with the Kardinalschitte.
posted by biffa at 4:13 PM on March 22, 2022
I'm suddenly hungry for a non-existent industrially-produced snack food.
Better than that, the next evolution of the cronut, this time crossbred with the Kardinalschitte.
posted by biffa at 4:13 PM on March 22, 2022
I support this message:
“We see no reason to celebrate the 70-year ascension of your grandmother to the British throne because we believe her leadership, and that of her predecessors, have perpetuated the greatest human rights tragedy in the history of humankind..."
Should the monarchy want to “redefine” its relationship to the Jamaican people, the letter suggests the royals should “start with an apology” and reparations, which seems like a better strategy than tasting chocolate and dancing.
posted by doctornemo at 4:30 PM on March 22, 2022 [29 favorites]
“We see no reason to celebrate the 70-year ascension of your grandmother to the British throne because we believe her leadership, and that of her predecessors, have perpetuated the greatest human rights tragedy in the history of humankind..."
Should the monarchy want to “redefine” its relationship to the Jamaican people, the letter suggests the royals should “start with an apology” and reparations, which seems like a better strategy than tasting chocolate and dancing.
posted by doctornemo at 4:30 PM on March 22, 2022 [29 favorites]
when Canada severs ties with the monarchy
While I see no use for a/the Monarchy, the effort needed to write the Monarchy out of the Canadian constitution and legal system is supposed to be immense, and not worth the political effort given that the Monarchy has no actual role beyond being a figurehead. I vote we just stop answering their calls and claim we’re not available, like in a Julian Fellowes drama.
posted by cardboard at 7:45 PM on March 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
While I see no use for a/the Monarchy, the effort needed to write the Monarchy out of the Canadian constitution and legal system is supposed to be immense, and not worth the political effort given that the Monarchy has no actual role beyond being a figurehead. I vote we just stop answering their calls and claim we’re not available, like in a Julian Fellowes drama.
posted by cardboard at 7:45 PM on March 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
While I see no use for a/the Monarchy, the effort needed to write the Monarchy out of the Canadian constitution and legal system is supposed to be immense, and not worth the political effort given that the Monarchy has no actual role beyond being a figurehead
Likewise on the indifference. Her Majesty seems like as good a choice as anyone to put in the coins, but her brood ranges from pointless to problematic. I think the last time I thought about the monarchy for more than ninety seconds was probably watching that Helen Mirren movie about a decade and a half back, and before that? I seem to recall we used to have to sing “God Save the Queen” in primary school in the seventies.
I suppose they give people something other than $LOCAL_SPORTS_TEAM to gossip about. About six weeks ago, not long after the announcement that the Queen had been diagnosed with COVID-19, the Toronto Star ran a piece asking readers if they had ever met HRH..
One commenter had a lot of thoughts on just why the Star would happen to choose right now to ask about this. And just what does the Star know about the Queen that we don’t, hmmm? Put the pieces together!
Well, I suspect (to paraphrase Aaron Sorkin) that the sheer tonnage of what the Star knows that you don’t could stun a team of oxen in its tracks. However, even someone as generally uninterested in the activities of the royals as I knew that it had been seventy years ago that week that she ascended to the throne. Perhaps that might shed some light on the mystery?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:38 PM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Likewise on the indifference. Her Majesty seems like as good a choice as anyone to put in the coins, but her brood ranges from pointless to problematic. I think the last time I thought about the monarchy for more than ninety seconds was probably watching that Helen Mirren movie about a decade and a half back, and before that? I seem to recall we used to have to sing “God Save the Queen” in primary school in the seventies.
I suppose they give people something other than $LOCAL_SPORTS_TEAM to gossip about. About six weeks ago, not long after the announcement that the Queen had been diagnosed with COVID-19, the Toronto Star ran a piece asking readers if they had ever met HRH..
One commenter had a lot of thoughts on just why the Star would happen to choose right now to ask about this. And just what does the Star know about the Queen that we don’t, hmmm? Put the pieces together!
Well, I suspect (to paraphrase Aaron Sorkin) that the sheer tonnage of what the Star knows that you don’t could stun a team of oxen in its tracks. However, even someone as generally uninterested in the activities of the royals as I knew that it had been seventy years ago that week that she ascended to the throne. Perhaps that might shed some light on the mystery?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:38 PM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Prince William to ‘acknowledge’ slavery legacy on Jamaica trip as protesters tell him to ‘go home’
...I can’t wait to see who will play Beenie Man in The Crown
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 3:55 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
...I can’t wait to see who will play Beenie Man in The Crown
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 3:55 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
While I see no use for a/the Monarchy, the effort needed to write the Monarchy out of the Canadian constitution and legal system is supposed to be immense, and not worth the political effort given that the Monarchy has no actual role beyond being a figurehead.
Eh. Some operatives in the provincial government in Nova Scotia got rid of rent control (except for on the land plots in land lease communities, aka trailer parks) a couple decades ago by just adding a clause at the end of the provincial Rent Review Act redefining what it applied to down to nothing. I imagine Canada as a whole could do something similar vis-a-vis The Crown.
posted by eviemath at 4:39 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Eh. Some operatives in the provincial government in Nova Scotia got rid of rent control (except for on the land plots in land lease communities, aka trailer parks) a couple decades ago by just adding a clause at the end of the provincial Rent Review Act redefining what it applied to down to nothing. I imagine Canada as a whole could do something similar vis-a-vis The Crown.
posted by eviemath at 4:39 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
I agree eliminating the Crown in Canada is complex because of the treaties signed between many First Nations and “The Crown”, the large Queen’s Bush, and how the Crown is imbedded in our laws and legal system. And any attempt to remove the Crown will be met with demands from Quebec (even though they would be the first in line to boot the current Queen of Canada out because that’s just how they roll). So I propose Canada keep the Crown as our head of state, but appoint our True Queen of Canada. May I present, HRH Queen Celine.
posted by saucysault at 4:44 AM on March 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by saucysault at 4:44 AM on March 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
At the beginning I was like, “no, but those are exactly the parts that are super easy to redefine” but then I got to the end, and that is not an unreasonable proposal. Probably would keep Quebec on board too? Let’s consider the issue settled and return our attention to Belize and Jamaica!
[Edited to correct mid-typed country name]
posted by eviemath at 4:59 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
[Edited to correct mid-typed country name]
posted by eviemath at 4:59 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
I seem to recall we used to have to sing “God Save the Queen” in primary school in the seventies.
A reason as good as any other to dispense with the monarchy would be to spare children the needless confusion of having to wonder why some lady or gent should be “raining” all over us. And why our collective hope is that this continue for as long as possible.
I guess that’s our version of the Daunzer lee light.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 7:00 AM on March 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
A reason as good as any other to dispense with the monarchy would be to spare children the needless confusion of having to wonder why some lady or gent should be “raining” all over us. And why our collective hope is that this continue for as long as possible.
I guess that’s our version of the Daunzer lee light.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 7:00 AM on March 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
Every piece of media I have seen surrounding this tour has been an exercise in Optics Gone Wrong and it is giving me LIFE.
posted by Faintdreams at 7:06 AM on March 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Faintdreams at 7:06 AM on March 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
Likewise on the indifference. Her Majesty seems like as good a choice as anyone to put in the coins, but her brood ranges from pointless to problematic.
Just wait until the moment arrives that you fish a loonie out of your pocket to buy a paper and find yourself musing idly about the desirability of becoming a human feminine hygiene product.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 7:19 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Just wait until the moment arrives that you fish a loonie out of your pocket to buy a paper and find yourself musing idly about the desirability of becoming a human feminine hygiene product.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 7:19 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
I say we keep Brenda's silhouette on the coins, but make it progressively more abstract with each iteration as her reign recedes further into history, until eventually it is an abstract hieroglyphic representation of the personification of state authority and the law.
posted by acb at 8:53 AM on March 23, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by acb at 8:53 AM on March 23, 2022 [5 favorites]
Folks from Australia can chime in on this, but I read that Australia intends to sever their connection to the “Motherland” after the Queen passes, right? They are only keeping the connection because they like her?
Some Australians advocate this; most of them are probably confined to the Lefty Filter Bubble, the thin band of university-educated progressive-minded Australians who mostly live in inner-city seats where the governing conservatives come a distant third in elections.
In Australia, the conservatives are predominantly monarchist, ranging from “why change what's not broken?” quasi-pragmatists to weirdos who probably identified with Tim Brooke-Taylor too much whilst watching The Goodies after school. (Case in point: former Prime Minister and current Brexit advisor Tony Abbott, who immediately after bringing back imperial honours, gave one to Prince Phillip.) Meanwhile, Labor are staying quiet and hoping that enough voters in the vast, sprawling suburbs mistake them for Howard-style conservatives to give them a crack at governing; nobody has brought up becoming a republic, but if they did, it'd get unequivocally ruled out as if it was abolishing negative gearing or something. After all, Australia is a murdocracy, and Labor is only survivable if they present the smallest target possible.
Maybe after the Queen passes away, the debate will resurface, though I doubt Australia will dodge having King Charles III (or whatever he calls himself) on its coinage. Given that he's getting on in years, his reign probably won't be long, and he could well be the last monarch of Australia.
posted by acb at 9:02 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Some Australians advocate this; most of them are probably confined to the Lefty Filter Bubble, the thin band of university-educated progressive-minded Australians who mostly live in inner-city seats where the governing conservatives come a distant third in elections.
In Australia, the conservatives are predominantly monarchist, ranging from “why change what's not broken?” quasi-pragmatists to weirdos who probably identified with Tim Brooke-Taylor too much whilst watching The Goodies after school. (Case in point: former Prime Minister and current Brexit advisor Tony Abbott, who immediately after bringing back imperial honours, gave one to Prince Phillip.) Meanwhile, Labor are staying quiet and hoping that enough voters in the vast, sprawling suburbs mistake them for Howard-style conservatives to give them a crack at governing; nobody has brought up becoming a republic, but if they did, it'd get unequivocally ruled out as if it was abolishing negative gearing or something. After all, Australia is a murdocracy, and Labor is only survivable if they present the smallest target possible.
Maybe after the Queen passes away, the debate will resurface, though I doubt Australia will dodge having King Charles III (or whatever he calls himself) on its coinage. Given that he's getting on in years, his reign probably won't be long, and he could well be the last monarch of Australia.
posted by acb at 9:02 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Any chance of the Commonwealth Realms keeping monarchies but just switching monarchs? All Hail King Harry and Queen Meghan, maybe?
posted by Ranucci at 9:26 AM on March 23, 2022
posted by Ranucci at 9:26 AM on March 23, 2022
It's very hard to tell the difference between support for the British Monarchy and liking/love for Elizabeth. One factor is that she was young, female and a bit glam on the throne less than a decade after the end of WW2 (and while there was still some rationing going on). Whereas now, barring a horrible accident or illness, we're now locked into a cycle of old or middle-aged men taking the throne.
Charles will be in his 70s or 80s when he becomes king - assuming he doesn't drop dead on the spot, William will probably be in his late 40s or early 50s when it's his turn, and then that's it. A series of men becoming king in middle age, reigning for as much as 40 or 50 years, and then popping off to be succeeded by their oldest son, who will by that stage already be middle aged or older with an adult heir, and a handful of younger boys running around getting into trouble (plus some daughters, who surveys will show would be the public's choice, but the constitution says no.)
That's a lot less glamorous than a beautiful young queen lifting the country out of the post-war doldrums. Add in the sort of reception Wills and Kate are starting to get from the peoples "lucky" enough to have "joined" the empire and it all starts to look a bit pointless.
posted by YoungStencil at 9:32 AM on March 23, 2022 [11 favorites]
Charles will be in his 70s or 80s when he becomes king - assuming he doesn't drop dead on the spot, William will probably be in his late 40s or early 50s when it's his turn, and then that's it. A series of men becoming king in middle age, reigning for as much as 40 or 50 years, and then popping off to be succeeded by their oldest son, who will by that stage already be middle aged or older with an adult heir, and a handful of younger boys running around getting into trouble (plus some daughters, who surveys will show would be the public's choice, but the constitution says no.)
That's a lot less glamorous than a beautiful young queen lifting the country out of the post-war doldrums. Add in the sort of reception Wills and Kate are starting to get from the peoples "lucky" enough to have "joined" the empire and it all starts to look a bit pointless.
posted by YoungStencil at 9:32 AM on March 23, 2022 [11 favorites]
"eventually it is an abstract hieroglyphic representation of the personification of state authority and the law."
Something like ... a crown, maybe?
I too am enjoying the delicious schadenfreude of watching all these palace functionaries who thought they were soooooooooo clever in repeatedly throwing Harry and Meghan under the bus discovering that they're really bad at their jobs, actually, when their jobs involve anything but "harass and bully a black woman by feeding lies to the Daily Mail, who are only too happy to amplify racism at every opportunity."
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:40 AM on March 23, 2022 [9 favorites]
Something like ... a crown, maybe?
I too am enjoying the delicious schadenfreude of watching all these palace functionaries who thought they were soooooooooo clever in repeatedly throwing Harry and Meghan under the bus discovering that they're really bad at their jobs, actually, when their jobs involve anything but "harass and bully a black woman by feeding lies to the Daily Mail, who are only too happy to amplify racism at every opportunity."
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:40 AM on March 23, 2022 [9 favorites]
For countries like NZ, where the relationship of the Crown to indigenous peoples is important to untangle very carefully given historic treaties and responsibilities, I kind of like the concept of a divorce here. I do think renaming the Governor General to a new name and centering more focus around them would be a good step - so that it's more inline with the country and feels more relevant, and then make them the Crown's authorized rep in the country . So the Crown is still there and involved...kind of like the parent who no longer lives in the home, but still has certain responsibility. Obviously want to avoid the parent / child terminology going forward as its weird, but just for the example here.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:01 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:01 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Eh, just re-define “The Crown” to be the federal government of whatever soon-to-be-former Commonwealth Country.
Ensuring that relics such as Governors General or unelected Senates don’t accidentally end up with real power is the trickier part, I suspect. (Not a lawyer, though, especially not in matters of Constitutional Law or Treaty Law in any country.)
posted by eviemath at 10:08 AM on March 23, 2022
Ensuring that relics such as Governors General or unelected Senates don’t accidentally end up with real power is the trickier part, I suspect. (Not a lawyer, though, especially not in matters of Constitutional Law or Treaty Law in any country.)
posted by eviemath at 10:08 AM on March 23, 2022
In other words: The Crown has some rights and some responsibilities in Commonwealth Countries. The responsibilities are already effectively devolved to the federal governments within each country, so formally assigning eg. treaty responsibilities seems like it would be fairly straightforward. The problem is the rights, which in Canada is basically that The Crown has veto power over any legislation. This is already assigned as well within the country to the Governor General (and, to some degree, the unelected Senate), but that power is kept in check by convention because if it were ever actually used, there would be an uproar and it would lead to Canada withdrawing from the Commonwealth and becoming more formally its own completely independent country. But if you do sever ties with the actual Queen yet leave those veto powers in place, eg. with the Governor General, now there’s little reason not to use them. That would really upset the balance of power and democratic-ness of the political system. So re-writing things to remove those (unused, so shouldn’t be missed) rights in a way that doesn’t inadvertently break anything else seems to me like the harder part.
posted by eviemath at 10:23 AM on March 23, 2022
posted by eviemath at 10:23 AM on March 23, 2022
I agree eliminating the Crown in Canada is complex because of the treaties signed between many First Nations and “The Crown”, the large Queen’s Bush, and how the Crown is imbedded in our laws and legal system.
The large Queen's what, now?
I say we keep Brenda's silhouette on the coins, but make it progressively more abstract with each iteration as her reign recedes further into history, until eventually it is an abstract hieroglyphic representation of the personification of state authority and the law.
I like this idea, because I used to work in a precious metals shop that also dealt with a lot of coins. There are numerous ancient coins from (at the time) far-flung Roman outposts where the quality of coins slowly diminished as Rome (and whoever was the guy in charge) became less and less powerful and unable to oversee the empire. So naturally the likeness became worse and the quality of the strike went to shit, making it much harder to identify rulers and mints and dates than on coins from a hundred years earlier. It's kind of an amazing thing to hold these tiny bits of metal in your hand and see the physical manifestation of the Fall of the Roman Empire, well over a thousand years later.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:53 AM on March 23, 2022 [10 favorites]
The large Queen's what, now?
I say we keep Brenda's silhouette on the coins, but make it progressively more abstract with each iteration as her reign recedes further into history, until eventually it is an abstract hieroglyphic representation of the personification of state authority and the law.
I like this idea, because I used to work in a precious metals shop that also dealt with a lot of coins. There are numerous ancient coins from (at the time) far-flung Roman outposts where the quality of coins slowly diminished as Rome (and whoever was the guy in charge) became less and less powerful and unable to oversee the empire. So naturally the likeness became worse and the quality of the strike went to shit, making it much harder to identify rulers and mints and dates than on coins from a hundred years earlier. It's kind of an amazing thing to hold these tiny bits of metal in your hand and see the physical manifestation of the Fall of the Roman Empire, well over a thousand years later.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:53 AM on March 23, 2022 [10 favorites]
So naturally the likeness became worse and the quality of the strike went to shit, making it much harder to identify rulers and mints and dates than on coins from a hundred years earlier.
So by the time King William ascends the throne, the once crisply engraved likeness of Queen Elizabeth will have morphed, Idiocracy style, into a blurry smear vaguely resembling Alfred E. Neuman. I like it!
posted by Turtles all the way down at 11:25 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
So by the time King William ascends the throne, the once crisply engraved likeness of Queen Elizabeth will have morphed, Idiocracy style, into a blurry smear vaguely resembling Alfred E. Neuman. I like it!
posted by Turtles all the way down at 11:25 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
(plus some daughters, who surveys will show would be the public's choice, but the constitution says no.)
The law of succession/congeniture was passed (before George was born) to be eldest child, regardless of sex (ie absolute primogeniture), which, in current terms, makes Charlotte ahead of her younger brother Louis and fourth in line to the throne (Charles-William-George-Charlotte). Commonwealth countries generally followed suit to change their own laws of succession to match.
posted by urbanlenny at 11:27 AM on March 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
The law of succession/congeniture was passed (before George was born) to be eldest child, regardless of sex (ie absolute primogeniture), which, in current terms, makes Charlotte ahead of her younger brother Louis and fourth in line to the throne (Charles-William-George-Charlotte). Commonwealth countries generally followed suit to change their own laws of succession to match.
posted by urbanlenny at 11:27 AM on March 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
The law of succession/congeniture was passed (before George was born) to be eldest child, regardless of sex
Yes - you are right and I was wrong. But with Charles-Will-George already lined up, it's still only evens that we won't have a century of older men on the throne, and that might make a difference. I suspect not though - this lot will be here for ever.
posted by YoungStencil at 12:44 PM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yes - you are right and I was wrong. But with Charles-Will-George already lined up, it's still only evens that we won't have a century of older men on the throne, and that might make a difference. I suspect not though - this lot will be here for ever.
posted by YoungStencil at 12:44 PM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Commonwealth countries generally followed suit to change their own laws of succession to match.
Would a country not updating their local succession laws or even passing laws which named a different order of succession effectively be a complete abandonment of the British monarch as the head of state, or would it cause enough embarrassment or confusion to matter in some meaningful way if other countries recognized someone else in the royal family as their head of state? Is the prestige of the British monarch being head of state in a bunch of Commonwealth nations enough of a lever that those nations could effect some change by collectively dragging their feet on recognizing them / threatening to pick some other royal?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 2:13 PM on March 23, 2022
Would a country not updating their local succession laws or even passing laws which named a different order of succession effectively be a complete abandonment of the British monarch as the head of state, or would it cause enough embarrassment or confusion to matter in some meaningful way if other countries recognized someone else in the royal family as their head of state? Is the prestige of the British monarch being head of state in a bunch of Commonwealth nations enough of a lever that those nations could effect some change by collectively dragging their feet on recognizing them / threatening to pick some other royal?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 2:13 PM on March 23, 2022
Let's hear it for the rainbow tour
It's been an incredible success
We weren't quite sure
And we had a few doubts.....
posted by Thrakburzug at 5:08 PM on March 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's been an incredible success
We weren't quite sure
And we had a few doubts.....
posted by Thrakburzug at 5:08 PM on March 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
Let's be clear about the key issue here. It's not the role of the monarch as head of state in the Commonwealth realms. It's the role of the monarch as Head of the Commonwealth.
It's obvious that a lot of the Commonwealth realms will go republican as soon as the Queen is dead. Everyone knows this. The Queen knows it, and frankly I doubt whether she's all that bothered by it. After all, she has presided over the end of the British Empire. Her entire life has been dedicated to the graceful management of post-imperial decline. I doubt whether she loses much sleep over the prospect that Jamaica might become a republic.
No, the real issue is the monarch's role as Head of the Commonwealth. The Queen used all her influence in 2018 to have Charles chosen to succeed her in that role. Clearly the hope is that the position will become quasi-hereditary, so that William will succeed his father in due course. That is the prize that the Royal Family are determined to keep: a permanent role on the international stage. That is what William and Kate have been sent to the Caribbean to safeguard.
Conclusion: never underestimate the Royal Family. They are pragmatic, they've learned to adapt to changing times, and they play a very long game.
posted by verstegan at 6:58 PM on March 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's obvious that a lot of the Commonwealth realms will go republican as soon as the Queen is dead. Everyone knows this. The Queen knows it, and frankly I doubt whether she's all that bothered by it. After all, she has presided over the end of the British Empire. Her entire life has been dedicated to the graceful management of post-imperial decline. I doubt whether she loses much sleep over the prospect that Jamaica might become a republic.
No, the real issue is the monarch's role as Head of the Commonwealth. The Queen used all her influence in 2018 to have Charles chosen to succeed her in that role. Clearly the hope is that the position will become quasi-hereditary, so that William will succeed his father in due course. That is the prize that the Royal Family are determined to keep: a permanent role on the international stage. That is what William and Kate have been sent to the Caribbean to safeguard.
Conclusion: never underestimate the Royal Family. They are pragmatic, they've learned to adapt to changing times, and they play a very long game.
posted by verstegan at 6:58 PM on March 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
Conclusion: never underestimate the Royal Family. They are pragmatic, they've learned to adapt to changing times, and they play a very long game.
Counterpoint: the Queen is pragmatic and adaptable, which is a large part of the reason she is so well liked. Most of the rest of the royal family is very obviously not, which has something to do with why they are not.
If Charles, and then William and his line, abdicated in favour of Harry (the only one of the new generation the public really likes), the royal family might well continue to have influence. But they're not gonna do that.
posted by mightygodking at 7:25 PM on March 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
Counterpoint: the Queen is pragmatic and adaptable, which is a large part of the reason she is so well liked. Most of the rest of the royal family is very obviously not, which has something to do with why they are not.
If Charles, and then William and his line, abdicated in favour of Harry (the only one of the new generation the public really likes), the royal family might well continue to have influence. But they're not gonna do that.
posted by mightygodking at 7:25 PM on March 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
If Charles, and then William and his line, abdicated in favour of Harry (the only one of the new generation the public really likes) [...]This is literally the opposite of what the polling shows.
posted by kickingtheground at 8:03 PM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Jamaica is “moving on” and intends to become an “independent, developed and prosperous” republic, the country’s prime minister has told the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, amid protests calling for the United Kingdom to pay reparations for slavery.
Jamaica PM tells British royals island nation wants to be independent
just extremely extremely funny that britain sent william and kate to jamaica and in response jamaica declares itself a republic
posted by infini at 6:32 AM on March 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
Jamaica PM tells British royals island nation wants to be independent
just extremely extremely funny that britain sent william and kate to jamaica and in response jamaica declares itself a republic
posted by infini at 6:32 AM on March 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
If Charles, and then William and his line, abdicated in favour of Harry (the only one of the new generation the public really likes) [...]
This is literally the opposite of what the polling shows.
The current popularity of Harry in the UK is significantly lower than in other English speaking countries. I would say that Kate is well liked, and William is seen as "fine I guess". In contrast Harry is a bit whiny / let his grandmother down.
In most royal tours attracting media interest, people say beforehand that it will go badly, and then what actually happens is that they either achieve a respectable level of interest, or are significantly more popular than anticipated. It's unusual that it really does go badly. This is true, regardless of which royal does the tour. I imagine this will be in the "respectable level of interest" group as they are middle aged rather than young and glam.
Elizabeth II has effectively 4 sets of titles at the moment: Queen of the United Kingdom*, Queen of her other realms and territories, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith. It's the 3rd of these that they are trying to shore up because it's not tied to the Crown, it's been bestowed on her personally. There is already a commitment that the next Head of the Commonwealth will be Charles, but they would like it to be hereditary by tradition. When I say "they" probably both the RF and the Government, because it adds to British prestige more generally.
*in each of her realms X, she is Queen of X, and of her other realms, etc. I've split out the UK because she lives here and we pay for her, so it would be more of a palaver for her if we became a republic than any of the other places where she is head of state.
posted by plonkee at 9:30 AM on March 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is literally the opposite of what the polling shows.
The current popularity of Harry in the UK is significantly lower than in other English speaking countries. I would say that Kate is well liked, and William is seen as "fine I guess". In contrast Harry is a bit whiny / let his grandmother down.
In most royal tours attracting media interest, people say beforehand that it will go badly, and then what actually happens is that they either achieve a respectable level of interest, or are significantly more popular than anticipated. It's unusual that it really does go badly. This is true, regardless of which royal does the tour. I imagine this will be in the "respectable level of interest" group as they are middle aged rather than young and glam.
Elizabeth II has effectively 4 sets of titles at the moment: Queen of the United Kingdom*, Queen of her other realms and territories, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith. It's the 3rd of these that they are trying to shore up because it's not tied to the Crown, it's been bestowed on her personally. There is already a commitment that the next Head of the Commonwealth will be Charles, but they would like it to be hereditary by tradition. When I say "they" probably both the RF and the Government, because it adds to British prestige more generally.
*in each of her realms X, she is Queen of X, and of her other realms, etc. I've split out the UK because she lives here and we pay for her, so it would be more of a palaver for her if we became a republic than any of the other places where she is head of state.
posted by plonkee at 9:30 AM on March 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
"Jamaica is “moving on” and intends to become an “independent, developed and prosperous” republic, the country’s prime minister has told the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, amid protests calling for the United Kingdom to pay reparations for slavery."
If you've ever wanted to see a very fancy deer frozen in the headlights, you have to watch the clip of this, it is extremely hilarious. In no universe is William prepared to respond to this surprise declaration. Just -- completely frozen.
I've said this in a lot of British monarchy threads over the past couple of years, but I honestly cannot get over how BAD their PR people are at their jobs. They could hire anyone in the world! And they hire people who are clearly incompetent, engage in non-stop self-owns, and provide the royal family with less competent media training than a newly-minted starlet gets before the red carpet at the Kids' Choice Awards. I am officially obsessed with the PR trainwreck that just ... keeps ... going.
(And I think this was part of the palace courtiers' problem with Meghan Markle -- she was absolutely 100% clear on the fact that these handlers and PR people are wildly terrible at their jobs because she had worked with actual competent professionals as a C-list Hollywood actor. USA Network isn't fancy, but they don't hire people this incompetent, and they don't put their actors on a red carpet wildly unprepared! I mean, honestly, imagine sending an actor to the network upfronts this unprepared.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:53 AM on March 24, 2022 [12 favorites]
If you've ever wanted to see a very fancy deer frozen in the headlights, you have to watch the clip of this, it is extremely hilarious. In no universe is William prepared to respond to this surprise declaration. Just -- completely frozen.
I've said this in a lot of British monarchy threads over the past couple of years, but I honestly cannot get over how BAD their PR people are at their jobs. They could hire anyone in the world! And they hire people who are clearly incompetent, engage in non-stop self-owns, and provide the royal family with less competent media training than a newly-minted starlet gets before the red carpet at the Kids' Choice Awards. I am officially obsessed with the PR trainwreck that just ... keeps ... going.
(And I think this was part of the palace courtiers' problem with Meghan Markle -- she was absolutely 100% clear on the fact that these handlers and PR people are wildly terrible at their jobs because she had worked with actual competent professionals as a C-list Hollywood actor. USA Network isn't fancy, but they don't hire people this incompetent, and they don't put their actors on a red carpet wildly unprepared! I mean, honestly, imagine sending an actor to the network upfronts this unprepared.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:53 AM on March 24, 2022 [12 favorites]
Eyebrows McGee: "but I honestly cannot get over how BAD their PR people are at their jobs. T"
Well, the royals' job is PR, no? That means they're bad at their jobs.
posted by signal at 3:30 PM on March 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
Well, the royals' job is PR, no? That means they're bad at their jobs.
posted by signal at 3:30 PM on March 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's bizarre how they were all born into the job for generations and they still can't figure out any of this shit. Experience teaches nothing?
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:36 PM on March 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:36 PM on March 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yeah, is it the PR people that are bad, or that their clients are not heeding their advice?
posted by Preserver at 6:11 PM on March 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Preserver at 6:11 PM on March 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
One of the interesting throughlines in pop-culture representations of the Windsors of the last 20 years or so is that having to do PR is actually quite a new thing. The King's Speech addresses it right off the top, when George V tells George VI (Elizabeth's father), "In the past, all a King had to do was look respectable in uniform and not fall off his horse. Now we must invade people's homes and ingratiate ourselves with them. This family's been reduced to those lowest, basest of all creatures. We've become actors!" The Crown addresses it throughout, as the press gets more aggressive over time, as Elizabeth fends them off, and Margaret is attacked by them, and Charles and Diana get swarmed under. Even pop culture treatments of Queen Victoria ("The Young Victoria" and "Victoria," for example) show how she has to adapt to mass media (newspaper) coverage of her life and decisions, while being continually hemmed in by the twin forces of the diminishing political powers of the monarchy and the increasing mass-media interest in the monarchy.
I think the British Royal Family are absolutely the worst fucking employers on the planet for PR/press/publicity employees. But there are a lot of REALLY AWFUL famous people who have managed to rehabilitate their images (and/or do enough positive PR to be allowed back into society while still loathed by many) -- Mel Gibson (ugggggggh), Arnold Schwarzenegger, Hugh Grant, Rob Lowe, Martha Stewart, Bill Clinton, Nicole Ritchie, Robert Downey Jr., Britney Spears (in a HUGE and autonomous way that was NOT PR managed -- she did her own shit because she wasn't allowed to use PR in her own service while under conservatorship!).
Even Johnny Depp, who not only is a living human nightmare but is a PR disaster who can't stay on message to save his life, has been managed enough by a competent PR team that people are still casting him in things. Aaron Rodgers still has a job. Casey Affleck won an Oscar. Justin Timberlake is somehow still someone who gets paid to do things. And like, some of these people are OBJECTIVELY HORRIBLE PEOPLE, and some of them just had sex the media disapproved of, there's a spectrum here. But there's a spectrum in the British Royal Family (BRF) as well! And the BRF PR people are failing everyone from the Hugh Grants (unapproved sex) to the Mel Gibsons (ugggggggggh).
So on the one hand, the BRF are very clearly bad clients who are not taking advice and not doing what they need to do. On the other hand, a competent PR professional can manage even the worst people and keep them out of PR disasters (or spin the disasters). And it's really clear that the BRF's PR team is not putting out a unified message -- it's Buckingham Palace (the Queen) vs. Clarence House (Charles) vs. Kensington Palace (William) vs. Frogmore (Harry, at one point). They are releasing competing statements, giving competing quotes to different outlets, giving exclusives to this or that reporter. And the statements/quotes/exclusives exalt their patrons, and dunk on their opponents -- and the "opponents" are William and Harry; Charles and his sons; Phillip and all of his offspring. I want to once again highlight this excellent Buzzfeed article that shows the difference between coverage of Kate and Meghan, and to emphasize that these are outlets/tabloids in the Royal Rota, who are fed Palace narratives and who reprint Palace stories -- and that is how they keep access to the Royal stories that they print! All of these "Meghan is trying to kill Princess Charlotte" stories are 100% a plant from William's press people, who urged the Daily Mail to print it, gave exclusive quotes, and refused to object to it. (And again, we know this from actual lawsuits, not just from doing Kremlinology on BRF PR actions -- although the Kremlinology turned out to be pretty accurate.)
(Also just a link to this prior comment where I talk about the rapist pedophile Prince Andrew hiring seven literal dwarves for his daughter's birthday party because he is the worst possible worst.)
Anyway, the BRF are shit at their modern, changing jobs, but their PR team are also clearly shit at their jobs, and it's mind-boggling that they can hire the best people in the world and just ... don't.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:36 PM on March 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
I think the British Royal Family are absolutely the worst fucking employers on the planet for PR/press/publicity employees. But there are a lot of REALLY AWFUL famous people who have managed to rehabilitate their images (and/or do enough positive PR to be allowed back into society while still loathed by many) -- Mel Gibson (ugggggggh), Arnold Schwarzenegger, Hugh Grant, Rob Lowe, Martha Stewart, Bill Clinton, Nicole Ritchie, Robert Downey Jr., Britney Spears (in a HUGE and autonomous way that was NOT PR managed -- she did her own shit because she wasn't allowed to use PR in her own service while under conservatorship!).
Even Johnny Depp, who not only is a living human nightmare but is a PR disaster who can't stay on message to save his life, has been managed enough by a competent PR team that people are still casting him in things. Aaron Rodgers still has a job. Casey Affleck won an Oscar. Justin Timberlake is somehow still someone who gets paid to do things. And like, some of these people are OBJECTIVELY HORRIBLE PEOPLE, and some of them just had sex the media disapproved of, there's a spectrum here. But there's a spectrum in the British Royal Family (BRF) as well! And the BRF PR people are failing everyone from the Hugh Grants (unapproved sex) to the Mel Gibsons (ugggggggggh).
So on the one hand, the BRF are very clearly bad clients who are not taking advice and not doing what they need to do. On the other hand, a competent PR professional can manage even the worst people and keep them out of PR disasters (or spin the disasters). And it's really clear that the BRF's PR team is not putting out a unified message -- it's Buckingham Palace (the Queen) vs. Clarence House (Charles) vs. Kensington Palace (William) vs. Frogmore (Harry, at one point). They are releasing competing statements, giving competing quotes to different outlets, giving exclusives to this or that reporter. And the statements/quotes/exclusives exalt their patrons, and dunk on their opponents -- and the "opponents" are William and Harry; Charles and his sons; Phillip and all of his offspring. I want to once again highlight this excellent Buzzfeed article that shows the difference between coverage of Kate and Meghan, and to emphasize that these are outlets/tabloids in the Royal Rota, who are fed Palace narratives and who reprint Palace stories -- and that is how they keep access to the Royal stories that they print! All of these "Meghan is trying to kill Princess Charlotte" stories are 100% a plant from William's press people, who urged the Daily Mail to print it, gave exclusive quotes, and refused to object to it. (And again, we know this from actual lawsuits, not just from doing Kremlinology on BRF PR actions -- although the Kremlinology turned out to be pretty accurate.)
(Also just a link to this prior comment where I talk about the rapist pedophile Prince Andrew hiring seven literal dwarves for his daughter's birthday party because he is the worst possible worst.)
Anyway, the BRF are shit at their modern, changing jobs, but their PR team are also clearly shit at their jobs, and it's mind-boggling that they can hire the best people in the world and just ... don't.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:36 PM on March 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
Well...the thing with famous male actors/celebrities is if you make people enough money, you can get away with pretty much anything 95% of the time. I think a lot of your examples may fall under that category. Also a lot of them go under the radar for awhile before creeping back out to see if people forget about their shame, and a lot of people somehow do. Generally speaking, that's how they get away with it. You need to either go to jail and/or cost people a lot of money to really be affected by "cancelation."
(I do wonder on the example of Britney, though? Like...obviously mentally ill for awhile there, not that she was doing anything racist/abusive AFAIK. I would say that being forced to shut up for years via conservatorship might have a similar effect, though.)
I'm not sure how the BRF would fall into that or not. To some degree it's a different dynamic, and it seems like the BRF want to try to be "above it all" a lot of the time. I read a lot of celebitchy.com these days and the royal writer there very closely follows all the crazeballs media coverage and what's focused on (Meghan's fault for everything!) and what's not (Camilla spreading covid around after exposure) in England vs. elsewhere. Also, Andrew and Harry are the first royals to get "canceled" since, I dunno, Edward VIII or so who canceled himself. I hate to loop Harry in with Andrew, but they sure did get about the same treatment, except Harry got it a whole lot faster.
At any rate, the current bunch is doing a pretty terrible job since they canNOT manage to move with the times, except for H&M. Possibly they think they shouldn't have to because how likely is it that royals are going to get fired from their jobs, such as they are? How likely is it that the entire UK would rise up and throw out Charles and/or William after the Queen dies? It will certainly be interesting to see because literally nobody but Camilla likes Charles and sadly, Adult William turned out to be a pill.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:37 PM on March 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
(I do wonder on the example of Britney, though? Like...obviously mentally ill for awhile there, not that she was doing anything racist/abusive AFAIK. I would say that being forced to shut up for years via conservatorship might have a similar effect, though.)
I'm not sure how the BRF would fall into that or not. To some degree it's a different dynamic, and it seems like the BRF want to try to be "above it all" a lot of the time. I read a lot of celebitchy.com these days and the royal writer there very closely follows all the crazeballs media coverage and what's focused on (Meghan's fault for everything!) and what's not (Camilla spreading covid around after exposure) in England vs. elsewhere. Also, Andrew and Harry are the first royals to get "canceled" since, I dunno, Edward VIII or so who canceled himself. I hate to loop Harry in with Andrew, but they sure did get about the same treatment, except Harry got it a whole lot faster.
At any rate, the current bunch is doing a pretty terrible job since they canNOT manage to move with the times, except for H&M. Possibly they think they shouldn't have to because how likely is it that royals are going to get fired from their jobs, such as they are? How likely is it that the entire UK would rise up and throw out Charles and/or William after the Queen dies? It will certainly be interesting to see because literally nobody but Camilla likes Charles and sadly, Adult William turned out to be a pill.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:37 PM on March 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
"It's bizarre how they were all born into the job for generations and they still can't figure out any of this shit."
That is one of the biggest reasons why jobs shouldn't be hereditary. One of the biggest arguments against royalty (other than sheer unfairness). I don't find it bizarre at all. I'd find it more bizarre if somewhere there was a hereditary line of any profession at all where each generation excelled.
Anyway I'm glad to see these descendants of robbers, thieves and standover men finally start to get their come-uppance. May it be the start of something much bigger. Down with aristocrats everywhere, I say.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:12 AM on March 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
That is one of the biggest reasons why jobs shouldn't be hereditary. One of the biggest arguments against royalty (other than sheer unfairness). I don't find it bizarre at all. I'd find it more bizarre if somewhere there was a hereditary line of any profession at all where each generation excelled.
Anyway I'm glad to see these descendants of robbers, thieves and standover men finally start to get their come-uppance. May it be the start of something much bigger. Down with aristocrats everywhere, I say.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:12 AM on March 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
Anyway, the BRF are shit at their modern, changing jobs, but their PR team are also clearly shit at their jobs, and it's mind-boggling that they can hire the best people in the world and just ... don't.
It needs to be evaluated against their objectives for their PR. They are not trying to sell themselves to liberals and republicans in the UK and overseas. They are broadly trying to sell themselves to the average woman on the (mainly British) street. Polling shows that they are doing fairly well at that despite the difficulties caused by Andrew. They also use PR as a tool in the internal politics they have between themselves. Their wider related activities include engaging with Government ministers, other heads of state and major charities.
The people they hire for PR nowadays tend to be from blue chip companies or former government press officers (at one stage, it would have been army officers). This may or may not be right for the job overall, but it's definitely not the same skillset as you'd find in a celebrity publicist.
Basically I don't agree that their PR team are shit. I think they are pretty good on balance at doing what they are asked to do. You and I may not like the inter-BRF leaks and plants and stories, but that is clearly part of the job. If the question is whether William's team have been successful at it, then I would say in the UK very much 'yes'.
The BRF as a whole, work competitively with each other rather than collaboratively. But that's a choice by the members not the PR team.
posted by plonkee at 2:26 AM on March 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
It needs to be evaluated against their objectives for their PR. They are not trying to sell themselves to liberals and republicans in the UK and overseas. They are broadly trying to sell themselves to the average woman on the (mainly British) street. Polling shows that they are doing fairly well at that despite the difficulties caused by Andrew. They also use PR as a tool in the internal politics they have between themselves. Their wider related activities include engaging with Government ministers, other heads of state and major charities.
The people they hire for PR nowadays tend to be from blue chip companies or former government press officers (at one stage, it would have been army officers). This may or may not be right for the job overall, but it's definitely not the same skillset as you'd find in a celebrity publicist.
Basically I don't agree that their PR team are shit. I think they are pretty good on balance at doing what they are asked to do. You and I may not like the inter-BRF leaks and plants and stories, but that is clearly part of the job. If the question is whether William's team have been successful at it, then I would say in the UK very much 'yes'.
The BRF as a whole, work competitively with each other rather than collaboratively. But that's a choice by the members not the PR team.
posted by plonkee at 2:26 AM on March 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
The Cambridges got fired live on camera by Jamaica’s prime minister
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:30 AM on March 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:30 AM on March 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Apparently, the "moving on" bit in PM Holness's remarks is a callback of sorts to David Cameron telling Caribbean people in 2015 that it was time for them to "move on" when the subject of reparations came up.
How none of this was even on the radar at Kensington Palace is astounding.
posted by droplet at 9:07 AM on March 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
How none of this was even on the radar at Kensington Palace is astounding.
posted by droplet at 9:07 AM on March 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
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posted by Monday, stony Monday at 12:14 PM on March 22, 2022 [25 favorites]