"…but we are progressing very far on the resistance front."

March 28, 2022 1:09 PM

Patty vs. Patty tells the story of Toronto’s bizarre 1985 “patty wars,” when Jamaican-Canadian bakers went head-to-head with the federal government over the name of their beloved beef patty.

Waging war on the Jamaican patty: Canada’s bizarre beef with the delicious snack

Bureaucrats thought calling hamburger patties and Jamaican patties the same thing would be confusing to Canadians — despite the fact that the latter were already popular in cities like Toronto due to a wave of immigrants who arrived from the Caribbean in the ‘60s and ‘70s.

Food inspectors from Consumer and Corporate Affairs visited patty vendors across Toronto, demanding that the name of the savoury fare be changed. The officials threatened fines of $5,000 (more than $11,000 in today’s dollars) if the shops didn’t comply by changing their menus, packaging and signs to, well, anything except “patty.”

The vendors resisted. They refused to sell the patty under any other name.

Michael Davidson, the young manager of Kensington Patty Palace, found himself at the centre of the controversy when community outrage propelled the story into the media spotlight. Davidson made headlines in newspapers and on local TV news. Politicians got involved; lawyers got involved; both the Canadian and Jamaican governments got involved.

Eventually, bureaucrats and representatives for the vendors met at a so-called “patty summit” to find a resolution that would avoid an international crisis between Canada and Jamaica.

Told from Davidson’s perspective, Patty vs. Patty weaves together first-hand anecdotes, archival footage and satirical re-enactments to tell this story of bureaucracy gone amok, community resistance and a delicious pastry — officially known as the Jamaican patty ever since.

posted by Lexica (42 comments total)

I did not know until today that the origin of Jamaican patties was from Cornish immigrants bringing pasties to Jamaica. At least that answers my question about whether this is a travel taco ;)
posted by BrotherCaine at 1:17 PM on March 28, 2022 [9 favorites]

The Jamaican patty won - it's everywhere! Good, bad, indifferent, fresh or under the heat lamp until it's crisped right though. You can definitely find patties in Toronto, and if you say "patty", that's all that people picture.
posted by jb at 1:50 PM on March 28, 2022 [5 favorites]

I miss some of other savory snacks in pastry that used to be available in convenience stores and donut shops, like sausage rolls (or, more rarely, scotch meat pies). But Toronto has changed and become more diverse and pork sausage rolls aren't halal, so you're much more likely to find patties or samosas. And a beef patty in a coco bun with lettuce, tomato and mayonnaise is delicious.

I'm just selfish and want ALL the savory pasties to be widely available: patties and pasties and samosas and sambusas and sausage rolls and beef rolls and Australian pies, Scotch pies and Melton Mowbray pork pies.
posted by jb at 1:57 PM on March 28, 2022 [5 favorites]

I happily volunteer as mediator for any and all patty / pasty / empanada / calzone / panzerotti / chebureki based arguments.
But I will need samples.
posted by bartleby at 2:01 PM on March 28, 2022 [6 favorites]

When I, a kid in an EXTREMELY white town, first heard the phrase "a beef patty and some coco bread" in a Lauryn Hill lyric, I did indeed picture a hamburger with a chocolate bun. But I am so glad nobody attempted to solve that "problem" with regulation.
posted by nebulawindphone at 2:09 PM on March 28, 2022 [1 favorite]

BrotherCaine:

I did not know until today that the origin of Jamaican patties was from Cornish immigrants bringing pasties to Jamaica.

Yeah, I didn't know about Jamaican patties at all, but this is apparently a common story. Here in Mexico, specifically in the state of Hidalgo, the most typical local food is the paste, which is similar, and, you guessed it, was brought over by Cornish miners in the early 19th century.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 2:18 PM on March 28, 2022 [4 favorites]

Truly the best of the webs
posted by mumimor at 2:44 PM on March 28, 2022

Toronto in the 80s was a much whiter place than it is now and there weren't many people from Jamaica in my neighbourhood but there was a Tastee nearby and we always got patties from them when I was growing up. They also had these things called bridies which were in a much thicker puff-pastry kind of shell and the meat was more solidly packed instead of the loose ground of a beef patty, when I hear people talking about pasties that's what I picture. When we went to Tastee we'd always buy a box of patties and then my brother and I would get a bridie to eat right then. I miss beef patties but the veggie ones at the grocery store all have beef suet in the crust and I think the local place that claims to make veggie ones (Allan's) never actually has them around.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:45 PM on March 28, 2022

Why not redefine the regulated meat circle as a "hamburger patty"?

Like, I get that they want hamburgers to be no-filler, but come on.
posted by explosion at 2:46 PM on March 28, 2022 [1 favorite]

I lived in Toronto (still do) right by the Bathurst subway station, which had a bakery in it. More than once I would grab a patty or two for breakfast on my dash to work. Don't think I ever bought anything else from that bakery, come to think of it... The bakery was a casualty of COVID, sadly.
posted by TomFrog at 2:49 PM on March 28, 2022 [1 favorite]

Who the hell orders a "hamburger patty", unless they're just wanting a meat puck on a plate with no dressing?

I order a "hamburger". That's what that food is called. Suggesting that the food-buying public would somehow order a "patty" and mean a hamburger is... well, would that be a Canadian thing? Because I can't picture it happening anywhere I lived in America.

Of course, here in the US I don't think I've ever seen a Jamaican patty, but I don't think I'd be recognized as ordering food if I asked for a patty even if I wanted a hamburger.
posted by hippybear at 2:53 PM on March 28, 2022 [1 favorite]

Are J. patties ever made with the coco bread as the wrapper (v. the pastry w. the bread on the side)?

Honest white boy question.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:02 PM on March 28, 2022

After careful research, I have reached the shocking conclusion that York Peppermint Patties sold in Canada are not made in York and contain virtually no detectable beef.
posted by Nerd of the North at 3:03 PM on March 28, 2022 [14 favorites]

lived in Toronto (still do) right by the Bathurst subway station, which had a bakery in it. More than once I would grab a patty or two for breakfast on my dash to work. Don't think I ever bought anything else from that bakery, come to think of it... The bakery was a casualty of COVID, sadly.

The bakery is gone? That was the first "restaurant" in Canada my mom ate at, when she came to Canada in 1972. Anyway, my favourite from there were the cinnamon twists (not the cinnamon buns). So good! And now I will never have one again and you will never have had one at all. How tragic for both of us.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:05 PM on March 28, 2022 [1 favorite]

There is nothing more Canadian than someone saying "That's the rules!"
posted by monkeymike at 3:27 PM on March 28, 2022 [3 favorites]

Surely that would be "Sorry, that's the rules."
posted by hippybear at 3:30 PM on March 28, 2022 [7 favorites]

Are J. patties ever made with the coco bread as the wrapper (v. the pastry w. the bread on the side)?

I've only ever had a patty in a coco bun, never quite with it. When I visit home (Toronto) this week I'll be stopping by the featured bakery for a patty supreme which is a beef patty on coco bread with mayo, lettuce, tomato and hot sauce.

I've never seen the same filling outside of the pastry but I'm a white boy too so don't take my word as gospel.
posted by Evstar at 4:08 PM on March 28, 2022

In this part of Canada ('not Toronto'), we say "them's the rules", but I don't know why.

Jamaican patties are available here in Alberta, but they're so expensive! Like 7 dollars each frozen, or more if they're cooked.
posted by Acari at 4:21 PM on March 28, 2022 [4 favorites]

Imported at COLOSSAL EXPENSE!
posted by a humble nudibranch at 4:26 PM on March 28, 2022 [2 favorites]

Those sound damn tasty. Must try...
posted by supermedusa at 4:37 PM on March 28, 2022

I've only ever had a patty in a coco bun, never quite with it. When I visit home (Toronto) this week I'll be stopping by the featured bakery for a patty supreme which is a beef patty on coco bread with mayo, lettuce, tomato and hot sauce.

Ah! So sort of like a pie barm or wigan kebab?

(NB: I've never had either.)
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 5:15 PM on March 28, 2022

→ scotch meat pies

Or as we call them, "pies".

I do like a good patty, and survived the coco-bun/patty combo at Scotty Bons. I used to get patties at the takeout inside Warden station until it had an enforced vacation after a rat infestation. I prefer doubles, though, but they're less portable.

More epic portable food options available in my neighbourhood include Uzbek-style samosas and Sri Lankan mutton buns, which are a couple of morsels of chili-rich mutton stew wrapped like a samosa but with bread dough, so they're puffy. The local bakery did 5 for $1 until recently, and that was good eating.
posted by scruss at 5:16 PM on March 28, 2022 [1 favorite]

TomFrog - the Bathurst Station bakery is open! I think even with the same owners.

But you shouldn't be getting their patties - those they just buy and reheat. What you want to try are their corn muffins (so good! Best I've ever had) or their bread pudding.
posted by jb at 5:28 PM on March 28, 2022

I was at Bathurst Station last week and I could have sworn the bakery was open.
posted by sixswitch at 5:29 PM on March 28, 2022

scruss: do you know of a Toronto source for scotch pies? We've been deprived ever since Allen's on Weston Rd shut down. There is a place in Hamilton and (I think) another in Scarborough, but COVID has kept me from going so far east (from Bathurst, where I can at least enjoy the Bathurst subway bakery).

I bought donuts from the Bathurst St bakery for Hannukah this December. Or was it for Fat Tuesday? I celebrate all of the fried food holidays.
posted by jb at 5:32 PM on March 28, 2022

This talk of Bathurst and buns...can I hijack a bit and ask if anyone has a recipe for Buffalo Buns? I KNOW that's not Jamaican! But my Dad is from Toronto and misses them so much! And I've eaten them there but don't remember them enough to recreate them without a recipe and the internet has failed me.
posted by atomicstone at 5:43 PM on March 28, 2022

Let's have a meetup at Bathurst station and all try each other's favourites.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:44 PM on March 28, 2022 [6 favorites]

They should have gotten Adam Vaughan to play Colin Vaughan.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:52 PM on March 28, 2022 [1 favorite]

I kind of feel like this is only bizarre or inexplicable if you forget racism exists. With racism, quite explicable.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 6:56 PM on March 28, 2022 [5 favorites]

Wow, another example of historic Canadian institutional racism.

Also, probably an Eastern (Canada) linguistic thing. Out west, the concept of confusing a "patty" to be ambiguous between a Jamaican patty and a hamburger patty is... nonsensical.
posted by porpoise at 9:09 PM on March 28, 2022 [2 favorites]

I order a "hamburger". That's what that food is called. Suggesting that the food-buying public would somehow order a "patty" and mean a hamburger is... well, would that be a Canadian thing? Because I can't picture it happening anywhere I lived in America.

I was definitely served hamburger patties as a dish (with vegetables) when I was a kid, no idea if that was something you could order on it own in a diner? I can't enlighten you on how they were called, since I grew up in Qc and that was just 'une boulette de steak haché'.

I have seen 'jamaican patties' at a fast food counter near where I used to work (pre-pandemic-WFH), couldn't remember the French appellation because the menu just had a drawing of one without a name (website says it's called a 'feuilleté style jamaïcain'). Can't tell you if they're any good because they had 'chicken jerk sauce poutine' and that is not something you can say no to.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 6:37 AM on March 29, 2022

Patty melts are a thing but in any case, nobody is confusing a Jamaican beef patty for that. Institutional racism is the only answer that makes sense to me but the doc was too committed to it's light-hearted tone to call it what it is.

(I really enjoyed it though.)
posted by Evstar at 6:53 AM on March 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

I was definitely served hamburger patties as a dish (with vegetables) when I was a kid, no idea if that was something you could order on it own in a diner?

In the US it's virtually certain that that would be labeled either "chopped steak" or "salisbury steak."

I could absolutely imagine someone purposefully ordering a "beef patty" and then feigning surprise when handed a beef patty. It's the same racist impulse that makes people say "Merry Christmas" and then when you say it back they go "No, I mean, MERRY CHRISTMAS, right?!"
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:59 AM on March 29, 2022

TIL the Bathurst station bakery is back! haven't been down there for a while, not since early COVID times. Since then I walk to Queen Station instead of TTC. But I come back through Kensington Market - is the patty place still there?
posted by TomFrog at 8:26 AM on March 29, 2022

Most 7/11s in DC have Jamaican patties under a heat lamp and they are far superior to other heat lamp options at 7/11.

I wonder how these same gatekeeper jerks felt about the various things pretending to be martinis, calling a pizza a 'pie' etc.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:14 AM on March 29, 2022

Although that 1985 campaign was nutso, I don't think calling a hamburger a patty was that unknown at the time thanks to this ad campaign. Or maybe it's just that my mother was on a lot of diets where you ordered the patty with cottage cheese.

Can't speak to post-Covid but Warden station had good patties too. And Patty King is where it's at to get a box. I will say these days my source is Drake's favourite spot.

jb - Scotch Pies - I can't speak to what's available at Bathurst but if you are trekking to Scarborough, But 'N'Ben is where my Very Scottish friend gets her pies https://www.butnbenbakery.net/

To expand on the things-in-bread theme, highly recommend samosas, roti, and rolls at Canbe, also on Ellesmere. The sweet onion rolls are so yum.

Jamaican patties are available here in Alberta, but they're so expensive! Like 7 dollars each frozen, or more if they're cooked.

This is one of the times I feel a tweak of sympathy for Western Alienation Syndrome.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:33 AM on March 29, 2022 [4 favorites]

I grew up hearing my grandmothers refer to it as "Hamburg steak", and it always meant a ground beef patty. Given that, it was interesting to come across this video on one of my favorite Korean cooking YouTube channels where they made "tuna Hamburg steak". And the recipe write-up doesn't even frame it as "tuna instead of beef", it's "tuna instead of pork".
posted by Lexica at 12:43 PM on March 29, 2022

But I come back through Kensington Market - is the patty place still there?

BlogTO is reporting that the Patty King in Kensington is closed (are they the same as the big bakery?). I like the Jerk Spot at the end of Baldwin, but I think I've generally just gotten jerk chicken or maybe roti there.

My favourite roti place is sadly gone - T&T Roti, part of the little outdoor marketplace at Bathurst & Dundas. Best, flakiest roti I've ever had. But I couldn't recommend them to many people because they kept pretty random hours. I think it was the owner's retirement passion.
posted by jb at 1:53 PM on March 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

FYI: the recipe in Cook's Country is very good and tastes like the Jamaican patties of my youth, but weirdly ends up with rectangular patties. (This is easily fixed, obviously.)
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:24 PM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]

Jamaican patties have been a staple up here in Northern Ontario since my parents took me to Caribana in Toronto, in the 90s. Patty King is always in the grocery store up here, thank goodness ♡

I seem to remember eating that first Patty with HP sauce...? Would that be right for anyone else's memory... and if so, why was that a "thing"?

While my clan remains dedicated to HP sauce, I have also enjoyed them with the sweet chili "Cock sauce" for spring rolls, tamarind chili sauces, mango chutney, thick garlic-chili red sauces, coriander chutneys, gochujang, etc.

And they make fresh green beans even better :)

Patties match everyyyyyything! And they are good cold too, perfect for outdoor chores/adventures/hikes.

Any suggestions on how to enjoy patties even more, ... if even possible!? Magic combinations?
posted by NorthernAutumn at 11:28 PM on March 30, 2022

→ scruss: do you know of a Toronto source for scotch pies?

Scarborough's been Toronto as long as I've been here and the only place is But & Ben at Ellesmere and McCowan. They make their own. Sobey's is rumoured to have decent frozen pies, but I've yet to locate them.

The story is really about Canada's passive-aggressive institutionalized racism, I mustn't forget that
posted by scruss at 7:35 AM on March 31, 2022 [1 favorite]

Sorry, I shouldn't have implied that Scarborough isn't Toronto. But I'm from Etobicoke originally, and going that far east is just so different for me.

But, yeah, the original fight was due to racism.
posted by jb at 3:34 PM on March 31, 2022