A gripping yarn: inside the Knitting.com drama
April 1, 2022 7:09 AM Subscribe
Two business bros announced plans to launch a knitting site. The crafting community is blasting their “cishet white” male approach.
But wait! There's been some development since that article.
The racism drama unraveling the knitting world.
And soon enough the Knitting Bros ended up in something called the Blocked Magazine: Conservative Knitters Try to Needle the ‘Woke’ With New Mag.
Anyway, here's a summary in image form.
But wait! There's been some development since that article.
The racism drama unraveling the knitting world.
And soon enough the Knitting Bros ended up in something called the Blocked Magazine: Conservative Knitters Try to Needle the ‘Woke’ With New Mag.
Anyway, here's a summary in image form.
From the "But wait" link: Genuinely this is my new favorite Yarn Scandal.
Wait, what are the pervious Yarn Scandals??
--
My sister & mom are big knitters (and quilters and...), and that's a strong community. I wouldn't dream of bringing anything less than my A game to do business with them. These dudes are dooooomed.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:50 AM on April 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
Wait, what are the pervious Yarn Scandals??
--
My sister & mom are big knitters (and quilters and...), and that's a strong community. I wouldn't dream of bringing anything less than my A game to do business with them. These dudes are dooooomed.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:50 AM on April 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
Wait, what are the pervious Yarn Scandals??
Ravelry barred voicing support for Trump because it was "undeniably support for white supremacy".
posted by Etrigan at 7:55 AM on April 1, 2022 [12 favorites]
Ravelry barred voicing support for Trump because it was "undeniably support for white supremacy".
posted by Etrigan at 7:55 AM on April 1, 2022 [12 favorites]
The rightwing grievance pipeline has shortened so much that you don't even really need to fail before you can get on the grift train. You just have to wave vaguely toward a patently ridiculous idea and then claim that you're being cancelled by the woke [insert subculture here].
posted by Etrigan at 8:01 AM on April 1, 2022 [28 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 8:01 AM on April 1, 2022 [28 favorites]
Wait, what are the pervious Yarn Scandals??
Here's a reddit comment with links to writeups of a few of them. It includes faked deaths, and Knitcamp " FyreFest beta test in Scotland".
posted by scorbet at 8:08 AM on April 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
Here's a reddit comment with links to writeups of a few of them. It includes faked deaths, and Knitcamp " FyreFest beta test in Scotland".
posted by scorbet at 8:08 AM on April 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
Knitcamp " FyreFest beta test in Scotland".
Jesus, that sounds terrible.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:16 AM on April 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
Jesus, that sounds terrible.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:16 AM on April 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
But that’s not the business plan, insists Jackness. “It’s all speculation from the knitting community,” he says. “They just assume that we’re going to do this, this, and this, and steal people’s patterns. Or mansplain to them how to do certain things.” It’s a point of frustration for the entrepreneur. “We never really had any opportunity to talk about or show what we’re going to do.”
“They’re accusing us of mansplaining!” sobs Mansplainer.
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 8:21 AM on April 1, 2022 [23 favorites]
“They’re accusing us of mansplaining!” sobs Mansplainer.
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 8:21 AM on April 1, 2022 [23 favorites]
Tech bros- is there anything they can’t reinvent? It’s strange that despite all of their “research”, they don’t think Ravelry is a competitor.
Also- what’s with the anti-Asian racism? Two of the fanciest needle brands (Chiagoo and Hiya Hiya) were started by Chinese Americans, as far as a simple google search goes.
posted by Valancy Rachel at 8:29 AM on April 1, 2022 [8 favorites]
Also- what’s with the anti-Asian racism? Two of the fanciest needle brands (Chiagoo and Hiya Hiya) were started by Chinese Americans, as far as a simple google search goes.
posted by Valancy Rachel at 8:29 AM on April 1, 2022 [8 favorites]
Another significant Knitting Drama is #ravelryaccessibility.
posted by zamboni at 8:30 AM on April 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by zamboni at 8:30 AM on April 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
Yes! I found the dumpster fire!
Also, all fandoms are terrible fandoms in one way or another. The only thing that surprised me about this was that it wasn't the same techbros who attempted like 10 years ago to monetise fan fiction...
posted by Katemonkey at 8:42 AM on April 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
Also, all fandoms are terrible fandoms in one way or another. The only thing that surprised me about this was that it wasn't the same techbros who attempted like 10 years ago to monetise fan fiction...
posted by Katemonkey at 8:42 AM on April 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
It seems to me that the tech bros are targeting a different market than the Very Online knitters who are attacking them.
Knitters also question EcomCrew’s focus on Amazon. “No one I know buys yarn from Amazon,” Nowacoski says.
There are hundreds and thousands of knitters and crocheters who buy from Amazon and only work with Bernat, Red Heart, Lion Brand and other inexpensive, acrylic yarns.
This whole situation is ridiculous and I'm enjoying watching it from a distance.
posted by Stoof at 8:44 AM on April 1, 2022 [9 favorites]
Knitters also question EcomCrew’s focus on Amazon. “No one I know buys yarn from Amazon,” Nowacoski says.
There are hundreds and thousands of knitters and crocheters who buy from Amazon and only work with Bernat, Red Heart, Lion Brand and other inexpensive, acrylic yarns.
This whole situation is ridiculous and I'm enjoying watching it from a distance.
posted by Stoof at 8:44 AM on April 1, 2022 [9 favorites]
I had a very brief window of time working a bit with Kristy Glass (in the theater world) before she began her knitting channel. When I started to read the article, at first I thought, oh how strange that there would be more than one person with that name. Reading further… oh.
It’s just odd to see someone one has known turn up in a situation like this.
I have a couple of other former colleagues involved in the knitting world (Ravelry and other places.) These e-commerce bros clearly had no idea what they were lumbering into.
posted by profreader at 8:45 AM on April 1, 2022
It’s just odd to see someone one has known turn up in a situation like this.
I have a couple of other former colleagues involved in the knitting world (Ravelry and other places.) These e-commerce bros clearly had no idea what they were lumbering into.
posted by profreader at 8:45 AM on April 1, 2022
If your entire market is on Amazon you have to explain to your investors why you won’t get undercut by Amazon, assuming you find any margin to begin with. Or by Lion having more access to Amazon metadata than you do.
I think open-books businesses are a probably a laudable idea and certainly an interesting one. Also not one I connect with successful sleaze balls. Huh.
Knitters being startlingly rude to crocheters is another old scandal.
posted by clew at 8:54 AM on April 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
I think open-books businesses are a probably a laudable idea and certainly an interesting one. Also not one I connect with successful sleaze balls. Huh.
Knitters being startlingly rude to crocheters is another old scandal.
posted by clew at 8:54 AM on April 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
There are hundreds and thousands of knitters and crocheters who buy from Amazon and only work with Bernat, Red Heart, Lion Brand and other inexpensive, acrylic yarns.
Oddly, among the moderately online crafters I know, the consensus is that Amazon isn't even good at selling affordable big box yarn brands. They consistently seem to list those basic acrylic yarns for 1.5x to 2x the price they go for at Walmart, JoAnn, or Michaels. (Like right now a big bargain acrylic Pound Of Love is going for $8.99 on the craft store sites and $13.55 on Amazon - and over $16 for the low-stock colors!) I'm not sure if they're preying on people who don't comparison shop, people desperate to grab a discontinued color, or people who live in areas where Amazon will ship but Walmart won't. (Is that anywhere?) All I know is that when we see people posting their huge hauls of 10 blanket-quantities of yarn, it's usually from the big craft chains, not Amazon.
Understandably, there's a lot of reluctance to try out a drop-shipped yarn or an in-stock yarn of an unknown/generic brand because quality is so incredibly uneven - and even if you *are* adventurous and willing to waste 20 bucks on something novel that may or may not feel nice and wear well, Amazon doesn't provide good filtering tools to get you to the fiber and the yarn weight you're looking for, so I don't know how the knitting.com guys are planning to make their products actually visible.
Standing up a generic SEO-friendly blog from their template they used for tactical shovels and jet ski covers just isn't gonna do it. I mean, judging by the success of sites like Hobbii (a virtual unknown European yarn site that popped up in the last few years and had everyone wondering "is this even legit?") then you've got to be really good at social media and really good at gamifying your sales/promos and really good at getting a lot of free yarn in the hands of vloggers and instagrammers who will gush over it and be able to assure the average buyer that yes, it feels good and no, it doesn't shed all over and fall apart and no, it doesn't smell like mothballs and plastic. And that's a lot of engagement work.
posted by fountainofdoubt at 9:27 AM on April 1, 2022 [7 favorites]
Oddly, among the moderately online crafters I know, the consensus is that Amazon isn't even good at selling affordable big box yarn brands. They consistently seem to list those basic acrylic yarns for 1.5x to 2x the price they go for at Walmart, JoAnn, or Michaels. (Like right now a big bargain acrylic Pound Of Love is going for $8.99 on the craft store sites and $13.55 on Amazon - and over $16 for the low-stock colors!) I'm not sure if they're preying on people who don't comparison shop, people desperate to grab a discontinued color, or people who live in areas where Amazon will ship but Walmart won't. (Is that anywhere?) All I know is that when we see people posting their huge hauls of 10 blanket-quantities of yarn, it's usually from the big craft chains, not Amazon.
Understandably, there's a lot of reluctance to try out a drop-shipped yarn or an in-stock yarn of an unknown/generic brand because quality is so incredibly uneven - and even if you *are* adventurous and willing to waste 20 bucks on something novel that may or may not feel nice and wear well, Amazon doesn't provide good filtering tools to get you to the fiber and the yarn weight you're looking for, so I don't know how the knitting.com guys are planning to make their products actually visible.
Standing up a generic SEO-friendly blog from their template they used for tactical shovels and jet ski covers just isn't gonna do it. I mean, judging by the success of sites like Hobbii (a virtual unknown European yarn site that popped up in the last few years and had everyone wondering "is this even legit?") then you've got to be really good at social media and really good at gamifying your sales/promos and really good at getting a lot of free yarn in the hands of vloggers and instagrammers who will gush over it and be able to assure the average buyer that yes, it feels good and no, it doesn't shed all over and fall apart and no, it doesn't smell like mothballs and plastic. And that's a lot of engagement work.
posted by fountainofdoubt at 9:27 AM on April 1, 2022 [7 favorites]
I think people who don't knit as a hobby underestimate the cost of decent natural fiber yarns in general. I made a scarf recently using good but not amazing quality wool and it was still almost 55 bucks of yarn, and that's ignoring the needles and such I required for it. Acrylics are attractive to people for a lot of reasons.
posted by Ferreous at 9:36 AM on April 1, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 9:36 AM on April 1, 2022 [10 favorites]
There's a whole debate in the community about how to keep the hobby affordable for all kinds of people while still providing opportunities for designers to be paid a fair wage. Of course it overlaps with a lot of other issues like racial diversity and toxic parasocial relationships with fiber celebrities. The yarn world is just as complex and political as any other group of humans.
posted by rikschell at 9:52 AM on April 1, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 9:52 AM on April 1, 2022 [8 favorites]
I bought yarn on Amazon during the pandemic because (a) pandemic and (b) my usual places were frequently out of the yarn I normally got. I'm not ashamed.
I'm not a yarn snob entirely because of the cost of the fancy yarns. Yarn snobs usually can only make hats/scarves/shawls/socks for that reason, and I prefer full on, covers half of your body garments. Wanna make a sweater? It ain't cheap to make a sweater if you need fancy yarn only, especially if it comes in around 100 yards and is $25 per ball (for the non-yarnies, think that I'd need around 1000-ish yards). And it's hard to find THAT many balls in the matching color/dye lot for a sweater at your LYS since people aren't usually buying 12 balls of yarn of the same kind there.
I recently crocheted a dress out of several years' worth of fancy fingering yarns I'd collected over the years (different colors), and they're probably on average around $30/pop, so that dress is worth, in yarn alone, probably around $180. I want to make another dress and figuring out how to get the most yarn with reasonable feel and the biggest number of yards for my buck is always a challenge. This is pretty much why my biggest garments are almost always out of acrylics (Caron Simply Soft is my favorite--lots of yarn for the price, great colors, frequently on sale) from Joann's or whatever.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:33 AM on April 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'm not a yarn snob entirely because of the cost of the fancy yarns. Yarn snobs usually can only make hats/scarves/shawls/socks for that reason, and I prefer full on, covers half of your body garments. Wanna make a sweater? It ain't cheap to make a sweater if you need fancy yarn only, especially if it comes in around 100 yards and is $25 per ball (for the non-yarnies, think that I'd need around 1000-ish yards). And it's hard to find THAT many balls in the matching color/dye lot for a sweater at your LYS since people aren't usually buying 12 balls of yarn of the same kind there.
I recently crocheted a dress out of several years' worth of fancy fingering yarns I'd collected over the years (different colors), and they're probably on average around $30/pop, so that dress is worth, in yarn alone, probably around $180. I want to make another dress and figuring out how to get the most yarn with reasonable feel and the biggest number of yards for my buck is always a challenge. This is pretty much why my biggest garments are almost always out of acrylics (Caron Simply Soft is my favorite--lots of yarn for the price, great colors, frequently on sale) from Joann's or whatever.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:33 AM on April 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
Oddly, among the moderately online crafters I know, the consensus is that Amazon isn't even good at selling affordable big box yarn brands. They consistently seem to list those basic acrylic yarns for 1.5x to 2x the price they go for at Walmart, JoAnn, or Michaels.
Yeah, that's what I was going to say. My mom hits up JF or Michaels for her supply. Those chains have a lot of reach.
I hate pretty much every aspect of acrylics, but if you're making something for a baby to wear regularly (a pretty common use case)...
posted by praemunire at 11:03 AM on April 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yeah, that's what I was going to say. My mom hits up JF or Michaels for her supply. Those chains have a lot of reach.
I hate pretty much every aspect of acrylics, but if you're making something for a baby to wear regularly (a pretty common use case)...
posted by praemunire at 11:03 AM on April 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
My jaw dropped when the guys thought that this was a great response to people criticizing their assumption that knitters don't want Chinese people in yarn videos and prefer "western people" (quote from the tumblr post, blockquote below from the main article).
Jackness pushes back hard against the accusations of racism. “One thing that’s actually pretty funny here is that I’m married to a Chinese woman,” he says. “And so is Dave.” Jackness has been married to his wife for 16 years and spends a lot of time in China.posted by spamandkimchi at 11:10 AM on April 1, 2022 [15 favorites]
Knitters being startlingly rude to crocheters is another old scandal
Crochet is the viola of yarn crafts.
posted by flabdablet at 11:47 AM on April 1, 2022 [11 favorites]
Crochet is the viola of yarn crafts.
posted by flabdablet at 11:47 AM on April 1, 2022 [11 favorites]
(Flabdablet - the second I saw your link, I KNEW it was going to be TwoSet)
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 11:58 AM on April 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 11:58 AM on April 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
Big knitter, the drama.
posted by JohnFromGR at 12:18 PM on April 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by JohnFromGR at 12:18 PM on April 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
Of course, the business plan of:
1) Overpay for [name-of-product-category].com domain name
2) ???
3) Profit!
is a quarter century old now.
posted by ckape at 1:24 PM on April 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
1) Overpay for [name-of-product-category].com domain name
2) ???
3) Profit!
is a quarter century old now.
posted by ckape at 1:24 PM on April 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
Oddly, among the moderately online crafters I know, the consensus is that Amazon isn't even good at selling affordable big box yarn brands. They consistently seem to list those basic acrylic yarns for 1.5x to 2x the price they go for at Walmart, JoAnn, or Michaels.
I won't buy from Walmart. While the others have local outlets - they're not in walking distance. Add the price of gas and the time it takes to get to them (not actually long; they're not far), plus the chance that they won't have a given color or type or whatever, and the savings are eaten up in ancillary costs.
I know Amazon is more expensive than a lot of local stores. But Amazon delivers to my door (I have Prime; shipping's included); I don't have to visit several stores and deal with their current in-stock limitations. If you're buying a blanket's worth of yarn (or other craft supplies), the local craft store is much better. If you're buying 1-2 skeins, Amazon's more convenient, and may even be cheaper, depending on how far the craft store is and the local price of gas.
I don't knit but I do other craft projects, and I've done pricing comparisons of Amazon-vs-local-store for several items. (Including yarn.) Amazon usually costs a bit more, but not enough more to make it worth a one-gallon-of-gas trip to the store for a single item.
This goes out the window if you need to actually see or handle the item before purchase. I don't trust Amazon for anything not mass-produced and I don't expect their mass-produced stuff to be of consistent quality. But if what I want is "yarn to make pom-pom ornaments for a party," I don't care about the nuances of quality.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:28 PM on April 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
I won't buy from Walmart. While the others have local outlets - they're not in walking distance. Add the price of gas and the time it takes to get to them (not actually long; they're not far), plus the chance that they won't have a given color or type or whatever, and the savings are eaten up in ancillary costs.
I know Amazon is more expensive than a lot of local stores. But Amazon delivers to my door (I have Prime; shipping's included); I don't have to visit several stores and deal with their current in-stock limitations. If you're buying a blanket's worth of yarn (or other craft supplies), the local craft store is much better. If you're buying 1-2 skeins, Amazon's more convenient, and may even be cheaper, depending on how far the craft store is and the local price of gas.
I don't knit but I do other craft projects, and I've done pricing comparisons of Amazon-vs-local-store for several items. (Including yarn.) Amazon usually costs a bit more, but not enough more to make it worth a one-gallon-of-gas trip to the store for a single item.
This goes out the window if you need to actually see or handle the item before purchase. I don't trust Amazon for anything not mass-produced and I don't expect their mass-produced stuff to be of consistent quality. But if what I want is "yarn to make pom-pom ornaments for a party," I don't care about the nuances of quality.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:28 PM on April 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
> spamandkimchi: "Jackness pushes back hard against the accusations of racism. “One thing that’s actually pretty funny here is that I’m married to a Chinese woman,” he says. “And so is Dave.” Jackness has been married to his wife for 16 years and spends a lot of time in China."
For a long time, I wondered who these kinds of statements (i.e.: "I can't be racist, I have X in my family" and/or "I can't be racist, I married an X") were meant to persuade. Then, I realized that the target audience must be people who don't know enough minority people/families to have seen or heard of cases where a racist person dated/married into a minority family. Like, in my experience, this is just a fairly common thing to happen (at least in Asian families) but then I remembered that many white people simply aren't very familiar with typical minority experiences.
posted by mhum at 1:56 PM on April 1, 2022 [14 favorites]
For a long time, I wondered who these kinds of statements (i.e.: "I can't be racist, I have X in my family" and/or "I can't be racist, I married an X") were meant to persuade. Then, I realized that the target audience must be people who don't know enough minority people/families to have seen or heard of cases where a racist person dated/married into a minority family. Like, in my experience, this is just a fairly common thing to happen (at least in Asian families) but then I remembered that many white people simply aren't very familiar with typical minority experiences.
posted by mhum at 1:56 PM on April 1, 2022 [14 favorites]
For a long time, I wondered who these kinds of statements (i.e.: "I can't be racist, I have X in my family" and/or "I can't be racist, I married an X") were meant to persuade. Then, I realized that the target audience must be people who don't know enough minority people/families to have seen or heard of cases where a racist person dated/married into a minority family.
They're not meant to persuade anyone. No one is persuaded by them, but other racists who are looking for any excuse not to care about this particular racism will use it as that excuse.
posted by Etrigan at 3:20 PM on April 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
They're not meant to persuade anyone. No one is persuaded by them, but other racists who are looking for any excuse not to care about this particular racism will use it as that excuse.
posted by Etrigan at 3:20 PM on April 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
In 2012:
* Ravelry, a knitting social network, launched a Ravelympics event.
* the Olympics Committee came after them. They're hardcore about defending their name! The trail of venues and events they've threatened with behemoth legal action is fearsome!
* Without going into detail here: things happened.
* the Olympics Committee backed down and apologized.
Take knitters seriously.
posted by Pronoiac at 5:18 PM on April 1, 2022 [12 favorites]
* Ravelry, a knitting social network, launched a Ravelympics event.
* the Olympics Committee came after them. They're hardcore about defending their name! The trail of venues and events they've threatened with behemoth legal action is fearsome!
* Without going into detail here: things happened.
* the Olympics Committee backed down and apologized.
Take knitters seriously.
posted by Pronoiac at 5:18 PM on April 1, 2022 [12 favorites]
Lately I’ve been looking for a good rechargeable flashlight to buy, and I’ve noticed a curious thing.
None of the best flashlights according to flashlight and survival blogs and places like Candlepower Forums seem to be available through Amazon.
Then very recently some interesting channels on YouTube reviewing flashlights began showing up in my feed, and it turned out for several of these channels that all of the reviewed flashlights are available on Amazon, though this wasn’t apparent to me from viewing the videos, and I only found out about it from very sarcastic and dismissive posts in the comments sections.
Lots of the best stuff is not available on Amazon anymore at a reasonable price because manufacturers can’t make a profit when Amazon demands at least a third of the revenue, and Amazon can’t lower that share of the take because they insist on 'free' shipping to Prime customers, which means they have to build that ever larger expense into the price.
I think Amazon is backing these new flashlight review channels to counter the growing awareness that you can’t buy the best stuff at a good price there anymore, and it wouldn’t surprise me if Amazon is the Prime Mover behind these guys as well.
posted by jamjam at 8:05 PM on April 1, 2022 [8 favorites]
None of the best flashlights according to flashlight and survival blogs and places like Candlepower Forums seem to be available through Amazon.
Then very recently some interesting channels on YouTube reviewing flashlights began showing up in my feed, and it turned out for several of these channels that all of the reviewed flashlights are available on Amazon, though this wasn’t apparent to me from viewing the videos, and I only found out about it from very sarcastic and dismissive posts in the comments sections.
Lots of the best stuff is not available on Amazon anymore at a reasonable price because manufacturers can’t make a profit when Amazon demands at least a third of the revenue, and Amazon can’t lower that share of the take because they insist on 'free' shipping to Prime customers, which means they have to build that ever larger expense into the price.
I think Amazon is backing these new flashlight review channels to counter the growing awareness that you can’t buy the best stuff at a good price there anymore, and it wouldn’t surprise me if Amazon is the Prime Mover behind these guys as well.
posted by jamjam at 8:05 PM on April 1, 2022 [8 favorites]
Without going into detail here: things happened.
Um....is there any way I can find out how the heck things happened to get an apology from the Olympics? I didn't even know that happened!
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:24 PM on April 1, 2022
Um....is there any way I can find out how the heck things happened to get an apology from the Olympics? I didn't even know that happened!
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:24 PM on April 1, 2022
Ravelry is a nuclear power.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 9:28 PM on April 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by thatwhichfalls at 9:28 PM on April 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
I'm fuzzy on the details, honestly! Here's a Mefi thread from when it happened.
Per the Washington Post, Ravelry had over 2.2 million registered users then, a younger and tech-savvy crowd, and the article cited pushback on Twitter, specifically. Also, two apologies.
These links were fun reading!
posted by Pronoiac at 10:51 PM on April 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
Per the Washington Post, Ravelry had over 2.2 million registered users then, a younger and tech-savvy crowd, and the article cited pushback on Twitter, specifically. Also, two apologies.
These links were fun reading!
posted by Pronoiac at 10:51 PM on April 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
Oh good grief, from the link about Blocked magazine:
On page 27, Neil himself pens an entire essay about how much harder male knitters have it than anyone else, which includes gems like, “male knitters and crocheters face far worse rudeness/ridicule than anything I’ve heard a black female knitter talk of,” and, “Black women aren’t told they shouldn’t be knitting or shouldn’t be crocheting. Male knitters/crocheters are told this.”
And somehow they think (or are trying to make us believe) that it's the "bullies with pronouns" who are saying men shouldn't knit and not the "#thereareonly2genders" crowd they are trying to pander to?
For anyone not familiar with the knitting community, may I introduce you to Stephen West, one of the most famous knitting designers out there and here is his webshop. I've seen rope lines set up around his booth (and only his booth) at knitting trade shows to deal with the lines. I've heard people in the passport line at Schiphol excitedly planning their trip to his Amsterdam shop. So, yeah, these Emcon dudes are completely out of touch with the market.
posted by antinomia at 3:07 AM on April 2, 2022 [7 favorites]
On page 27, Neil himself pens an entire essay about how much harder male knitters have it than anyone else, which includes gems like, “male knitters and crocheters face far worse rudeness/ridicule than anything I’ve heard a black female knitter talk of,” and, “Black women aren’t told they shouldn’t be knitting or shouldn’t be crocheting. Male knitters/crocheters are told this.”
And somehow they think (or are trying to make us believe) that it's the "bullies with pronouns" who are saying men shouldn't knit and not the "#thereareonly2genders" crowd they are trying to pander to?
For anyone not familiar with the knitting community, may I introduce you to Stephen West, one of the most famous knitting designers out there and here is his webshop. I've seen rope lines set up around his booth (and only his booth) at knitting trade shows to deal with the lines. I've heard people in the passport line at Schiphol excitedly planning their trip to his Amsterdam shop. So, yeah, these Emcon dudes are completely out of touch with the market.
posted by antinomia at 3:07 AM on April 2, 2022 [7 favorites]
somehow they think (or are trying to make us believe) that it's the "bullies with pronouns" who are saying men shouldn't knit and not the "#thereareonly2genders" crowd they are trying to pander to?
As usual, Wilhoit implicitly covers this distressingly common pattern:
Conservative writing, therefore, is almost always marked by a lack of personal reflection and insight whose blitheness approaches the surreal.
posted by flabdablet at 5:19 AM on April 2, 2022 [7 favorites]
As usual, Wilhoit implicitly covers this distressingly common pattern:
As the core proposition of conservatism is indefensible if stated baldly, it has always been surrounded by an elaborate backwash of pseudophilosophy, amounting over time to millions of pages. All such is axiomatically dishonest and undeserving of serious scrutiny.From which it follows that in order to identify as a conservative one must adopt the unbreakable habit of assiduously looking the other way whenever the core proposition threatens to reveal itself, on pain of one's identity becoming indefensible.
Conservative writing, therefore, is almost always marked by a lack of personal reflection and insight whose blitheness approaches the surreal.
posted by flabdablet at 5:19 AM on April 2, 2022 [7 favorites]
* the Olympics Committee backed down and apologized.
Looking at the wording of the apologies, they were regretful about being mean/were trying to get the knitting community to stop yelling at them, but did not back down about the -lympics name change.
posted by zamboni at 5:57 AM on April 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
Looking at the wording of the apologies, they were regretful about being mean/were trying to get the knitting community to stop yelling at them, but did not back down about the -lympics name change.
posted by zamboni at 5:57 AM on April 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
Jackness pushes back hard against the accusations of racism. “One thing that’s actually pretty funny here is that I’m married to a Chinese woman,” he says. “And so is Dave.” Jackness has been married to his wife for 16 years and spends a lot of time in China.
Oh, FFS! I know just the type too.
posted by bearette at 6:18 AM on April 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
Oh, FFS! I know just the type too.
posted by bearette at 6:18 AM on April 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
Ravelry was very powerful at the time (the Olympics blowup). Its forums were busy with chatter constantly. It’s a much less social place now, focusing more on pattern search and sales. The anti-Trump stand and the backlash against the new design (and the understandable related personal issues involved with Cassidy) took a toll, but so did overall shifts in social media platforms.
It’s really hard (as MeFi knows all too well) to keep a big community happy with a small team and closed-door private ownership.
posted by rikschell at 7:38 AM on April 2, 2022
It’s really hard (as MeFi knows all too well) to keep a big community happy with a small team and closed-door private ownership.
posted by rikschell at 7:38 AM on April 2, 2022
From the editor, Neil: “male knitters and crocheters face far worse rudeness/ridicule than anything I’ve heard a black female knitter talk of”
Sorry, male knitters have been welcomed with open arms in any place I’ve been. (For reference, I’m a sometimes knitter, my wife is a knitter who organized the main bay are stitch and bitch group and we own a friggin’ yarn shop together.) most of the knitters I know want *more* men to get into the craft.
People who aren’t welcome? Assholes. Dude probably got his ass handed to him for spouting off his bullshit and took it to mean the community was misandrist rather than telling him he was being a dick.
posted by mikesch at 8:39 AM on April 2, 2022 [13 favorites]
Sorry, male knitters have been welcomed with open arms in any place I’ve been. (For reference, I’m a sometimes knitter, my wife is a knitter who organized the main bay are stitch and bitch group and we own a friggin’ yarn shop together.) most of the knitters I know want *more* men to get into the craft.
People who aren’t welcome? Assholes. Dude probably got his ass handed to him for spouting off his bullshit and took it to mean the community was misandrist rather than telling him he was being a dick.
posted by mikesch at 8:39 AM on April 2, 2022 [13 favorites]
Entitled white wealthy dudes who have never been noticeably discriminated against before in their entire lives tend to see any push back in a community not composed of rich white dudes as not only -ist discrimination but also the worst discrimination in the history of discrimination because their personal scale goes from 0 to not being able to cut the line at the club. So anything past that is the worst ever, practically unprecedented discrimination.
posted by Mitheral at 9:07 AM on April 2, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 9:07 AM on April 2, 2022 [12 favorites]
I mean, I'm not about to say men who knit never get shitty attitudes about it; the world's very ready to punish men who try to do anything that's seen as typically feminine. I have never ever seen that coming from other knitters, though.
And trying to compare it to racism? Fucking excuse you, arsehole.
posted by BlueNorther at 9:20 AM on April 2, 2022 [13 favorites]
And trying to compare it to racism? Fucking excuse you, arsehole.
posted by BlueNorther at 9:20 AM on April 2, 2022 [13 favorites]
I do security work and I knit during slow times and I've definitely had people express disapproval or condescension about a man knitting, but it's entirely without consequence. There's no structural element to that interaction that oppresses me.
I've gotten a lot more people asking me what I'm knitting and telling me about their projects.
posted by Ferreous at 11:14 AM on April 2, 2022 [8 favorites]
I've gotten a lot more people asking me what I'm knitting and telling me about their projects.
posted by Ferreous at 11:14 AM on April 2, 2022 [8 favorites]
Lately I’ve been looking for a good rechargeable flashlight to buy
I'm at least a little bit of a flashlight nerd, and, unless your use case is very specific, I'd instead recommend getting a good flashlight and then putting a rechargeable battery in it.
A proprietary rechargeable battery is sooner or later going to fade away, and given the state of the flashlight biz there's no guarantee a replacement will be available. Meanwhile, the 18650 or RCR123A that gets released next month will probably be nicer than the best one you can buy right now.
posted by box at 1:36 PM on April 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm at least a little bit of a flashlight nerd, and, unless your use case is very specific, I'd instead recommend getting a good flashlight and then putting a rechargeable battery in it.
A proprietary rechargeable battery is sooner or later going to fade away, and given the state of the flashlight biz there's no guarantee a replacement will be available. Meanwhile, the 18650 or RCR123A that gets released next month will probably be nicer than the best one you can buy right now.
posted by box at 1:36 PM on April 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
Briefly continuing the two derails, knit vs crochet is a global conflict, and there's The Manly Art of Knitting, which apparently is not a very good intro to fiber arts.
posted by autopilot at 1:59 PM on April 2, 2022
posted by autopilot at 1:59 PM on April 2, 2022
There are hundreds and thousands of knitters and crocheters who buy from Amazon and only work with Bernat, Red Heart, Lion Brand and other inexpensive, acrylic yarns.
I'd second what many others have said above (that said, I totally believe "hundreds", and maybe even "thousands", because, uh, Amazon sells a lot of stuff to a lot of people, and if they have a thousand purchasers in a specific not-too-obscure category, they are doing very, very badly in that category). Amazon does a terrible job on selling bulk workhorse acrylics: their clustering of different colorways of the same yarn is fantastically inconsistent, a lot of their listings are third-party sellers with significant shipping fees, and the base cost is generally more than either big-box or large craft store prices. Anyone who wants to buy cheap yarn and doesn't want it to be a painful experience goes to Walmart or Michaels or Joanne's or the like, or shops online at those stores' online presence, or at an online seller like Herrschners.
posted by jackbishop at 2:16 PM on April 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'd second what many others have said above (that said, I totally believe "hundreds", and maybe even "thousands", because, uh, Amazon sells a lot of stuff to a lot of people, and if they have a thousand purchasers in a specific not-too-obscure category, they are doing very, very badly in that category). Amazon does a terrible job on selling bulk workhorse acrylics: their clustering of different colorways of the same yarn is fantastically inconsistent, a lot of their listings are third-party sellers with significant shipping fees, and the base cost is generally more than either big-box or large craft store prices. Anyone who wants to buy cheap yarn and doesn't want it to be a painful experience goes to Walmart or Michaels or Joanne's or the like, or shops online at those stores' online presence, or at an online seller like Herrschners.
posted by jackbishop at 2:16 PM on April 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
Right, that's why Red Heart yarns etc. have tens of thousands of reviews on Amazon.com. Because no one buys yarn on Amazon.
posted by Stoof at 11:18 PM on April 2, 2022
posted by Stoof at 11:18 PM on April 2, 2022
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If you actually go to knitting.com, you get a placeholder page talking about growing their brand and forming partnerships mixed in with a few knitting buzzwords that sounds like they slipped a knitter twenty bucks to give them some vocab flash cards.
posted by Mizu at 7:37 AM on April 1, 2022 [3 favorites]