E’s Off The Tracks
April 17, 2022 6:33 AM Subscribe
Engineer Who Tried To Kamikaze A US Navy Hospital Ship With A Train Gets Prison – At the Port of Los Angeles, the locomotive engineer who purposefully ran his train off the tracks at full-speed in an apparent attempt to sink the US Navy hospital ship USNS Mercy has been sentenced to prison for committing a terrorist attack. According to the US Justice Department, neither the USNS Mercy nor anyone else was harmed in the derailment of the train in 2020. The train tracks ended 250 meters before the ship pier, so Moreno did not even come close to damaging the ship, but he did damage his train and cause a 2,000-gallon diesel oil spill. gCaptain, John Konrad, April 16, 2022 (original story, CBS News LA video).
I get a real "QAnon idiot" vibe from the quotes. And just like a lot of QAnon idiots, the only thing that spared us from the horror of his intentions was his complete inability to accomplish them.
posted by ZaphodB at 7:35 AM on April 17, 2022 [27 favorites]
posted by ZaphodB at 7:35 AM on April 17, 2022 [27 favorites]
This Vice article is a little clearer on Moreno’s motivations (QAnon, natch).
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:35 AM on April 17, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:35 AM on April 17, 2022 [6 favorites]
It's a comment on the last two years that I don't recall this. So much shit has happened since. A train trying to sink a hospital ship? Big whoop.
posted by Splunge at 7:48 AM on April 17, 2022 [20 favorites]
posted by Splunge at 7:48 AM on April 17, 2022 [20 favorites]
While in custody, Moreno underwent psychological treatment which included the painting of a large mural that took 9 months to complete….. “Moreno has recovered from his psychotic episode, is on medication, and is no longer drinking the copious amounts of caffeine which may have contributed to the psychosis,” court documents said. “Most critically, Mr. Moreno has disavowed QAnon, which Dr. Newman has noted is ‘likely a positive sign of decreased risk given its centrality to his actions in his current offense.’” (From the Vice Article linked above)
Actually pleasantly surprised he got some mental health treatment while in custody and it appears to have had positive benefits (without knowing how effective it will be long term, and if that care will be sustained during his prison sentence and beyond etc). But still, small steps. There are a lot of folks out there who have fallen into the QAnon dark hole. I hope more of them get help….though it shouldn’t take them being incarcerated to get it.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:57 AM on April 17, 2022 [31 favorites]
Actually pleasantly surprised he got some mental health treatment while in custody and it appears to have had positive benefits (without knowing how effective it will be long term, and if that care will be sustained during his prison sentence and beyond etc). But still, small steps. There are a lot of folks out there who have fallen into the QAnon dark hole. I hope more of them get help….though it shouldn’t take them being incarcerated to get it.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:57 AM on April 17, 2022 [31 favorites]
I kinda need to know how much caffeine it was that was contributing to his psychosis
posted by 3j0hn at 8:28 AM on April 17, 2022 [38 favorites]
posted by 3j0hn at 8:28 AM on April 17, 2022 [38 favorites]
ricochet biscuit, that first link is to the 'gCaptain' site - which is not a "traditional" news/journalism site, and likely does not have the editorial standards/guidelines as mainstream news sites.
posted by davidmsc at 8:36 AM on April 17, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by davidmsc at 8:36 AM on April 17, 2022 [2 favorites]
Actually pleasantly surprised he got some mental health treatment while in custody
Treating him does help the prosecutor plausibly claim he has capacity to plead and accept a plea deal (despite his insanity argument being fairly well supported by the whole documented psychotic episode thing) that lands him in jail with an unclearable debt. This man should never have been in the criminal justice system.
posted by howfar at 8:36 AM on April 17, 2022 [8 favorites]
Treating him does help the prosecutor plausibly claim he has capacity to plead and accept a plea deal (despite his insanity argument being fairly well supported by the whole documented psychotic episode thing) that lands him in jail with an unclearable debt. This man should never have been in the criminal justice system.
posted by howfar at 8:36 AM on April 17, 2022 [8 favorites]
A. I'm guessing all the caffeine guzzling was due to inhumane work conditions similar to what they make truck drivers do just because most workplaces treat people like machines but I don't know what the union situation is for train engineers.
B. I remember this story from when it happened because I remember they were trying to do a lot to convince people that Covid was a hoax, because I was talking to someone at the time who was doing a lot to convince ME that Covid was a hoax. Which I found very scary & disturbing. And then here was someone who fell for it so hard he tried to blow up a freaking hospital ship. I remember thinking Jesus this is some powerful mind magic going on, they're really telling people up is down & they're accepting it. And you know the same folks saying Covid was a hoax & no one's gonna get it have totally pivoted to "everyone's going to get it" & I feel like no one noticed.
posted by bleep at 8:55 AM on April 17, 2022 [25 favorites]
B. I remember this story from when it happened because I remember they were trying to do a lot to convince people that Covid was a hoax, because I was talking to someone at the time who was doing a lot to convince ME that Covid was a hoax. Which I found very scary & disturbing. And then here was someone who fell for it so hard he tried to blow up a freaking hospital ship. I remember thinking Jesus this is some powerful mind magic going on, they're really telling people up is down & they're accepting it. And you know the same folks saying Covid was a hoax & no one's gonna get it have totally pivoted to "everyone's going to get it" & I feel like no one noticed.
posted by bleep at 8:55 AM on April 17, 2022 [25 favorites]
They have also pivoted to Putin is a hero. After all he is rescuing babies from the Satanic Nazis and destroying Fauci's virus producing labs.
posted by Splunge at 9:19 AM on April 17, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Splunge at 9:19 AM on April 17, 2022 [5 favorites]
I’ve noticed, bleep. I don’t have anything productive to say about it because I find the new messaging to be “so alien and, in fact, repellent to” my own ethics. But am here to validate your feeling and assure you that the phenomenon has not gone unnoticed by others.
posted by eviemath at 9:28 AM on April 17, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 9:28 AM on April 17, 2022 [11 favorites]
I got the impression Metafilter had also either moved on to “everyone is going to get it” or maybe had started there in the first place.
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 11:18 AM on April 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 11:18 AM on April 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
Still amazed that this guy tried to sink a ship with a train, what a legend. But the 0.75 million dollar restitution is just pure sadism.
posted by rodlymight at 11:28 AM on April 17, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by rodlymight at 11:28 AM on April 17, 2022 [5 favorites]
I kinda need to know how much caffeine it was that was contributing to his psychosis.
Yeah, speaking as someone who actually knows what a proper caffeine overdose from pure lab grade caffeine salts I'm not buying this.
I'd believe it if it was meth or maybe even ephedrine AKA trucker's speed, but caffeine tends towards self-titration because the overdose experience is extremely unpleasant and you can only get so high or otherwise stimulated on caffeine before you wish you were dead.
posted by loquacious at 11:45 AM on April 17, 2022 [9 favorites]
Yeah, speaking as someone who actually knows what a proper caffeine overdose from pure lab grade caffeine salts I'm not buying this.
I'd believe it if it was meth or maybe even ephedrine AKA trucker's speed, but caffeine tends towards self-titration because the overdose experience is extremely unpleasant and you can only get so high or otherwise stimulated on caffeine before you wish you were dead.
posted by loquacious at 11:45 AM on April 17, 2022 [9 favorites]
I looked it up - the engine made it to about Swinford Street & North Front Street, San Pedro, CA (google maps). Just completely bonkers timeline we are in.
posted by zenon at 12:46 PM on April 17, 2022
posted by zenon at 12:46 PM on April 17, 2022
One to add to the list of infamous train hijackings.
It's not a very long list, apparently.
posted by acb at 2:42 PM on April 17, 2022
It's not a very long list, apparently.
posted by acb at 2:42 PM on April 17, 2022
…that first link is to the 'gCaptain' site - which is not a "traditional" news/journalism site, and likely does not have the editorial standards/guidelines as mainstream news sites.
More about gCaptain (founded 2008) and author John Konrad’s LinkedIn profile. There’s also a gCaptain maritime forum (with Ukraine posts).
posted by cenoxo at 3:57 PM on April 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
More about gCaptain (founded 2008) and author John Konrad’s LinkedIn profile. There’s also a gCaptain maritime forum (with Ukraine posts).
posted by cenoxo at 3:57 PM on April 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
gcaptain is a good site, I've linked to it several times.
posted by clavdivs at 4:03 PM on April 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 4:03 PM on April 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
That was the weirdest damn thing. I mean if you drive trains for a living, how do you imagine it had even a chance of getting there...
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:04 PM on April 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:04 PM on April 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
As someone who consumes quite a lot of caffeine every day, and whose maximum caffeine intake (senior year of college) resulted in nothing more dire than a poorly-written term paper created during an all-nighter, I'm going to guess that there was something else going on there; "inhumane work conditions similar to what they make truck drivers do just because most workplaces treat people like machines" can in and of itself fuck people up pretty bad.
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:21 PM on April 17, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:21 PM on April 17, 2022 [7 favorites]
I am not a relevant expert, but it seems entirely plausible to me that too much caffeine could contribute to the onset of a psychotic episode (which the Vice article implies was a significant contributing factor to Moreno’s actions) in someone who has a mental illness that involves psychotic episodes, even though that wouldn’t be the effect in most people?
posted by eviemath at 6:31 PM on April 17, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 6:31 PM on April 17, 2022 [6 favorites]
One to add to the list of infamous train hijackings.That probably has something to do with having to run only on the tracks, I suspect. Though I guess this guy wasn’t very clear on that.
It's not a very long list, apparently.
I honestly thought this would be a gag post. I usually am on team “accountability” but it is impossible to imagine this wasn’t someone entirely out of touch with reality. Luckily the federal sentencing guidelines make it unlikely he’ll be in prison for a long time … even though it seems any time is too long in such a case.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 5:17 AM on April 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
(My previous comment is incorrect and I flagged it for deletion. “Stockholm syndrome” was coined after a Swedish bank robbery/hostage situation: no train was involved.)
posted by cenoxo at 5:24 AM on April 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by cenoxo at 5:24 AM on April 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm guessing his lawyer is blaming caffeine because believing in Q-Anon isn't an acceptable mental illness legal defense. (Although maybe it should be?)
posted by Furnace of Doubt at 8:23 AM on April 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Furnace of Doubt at 8:23 AM on April 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
That probably has something to do with having to run only on the tracks, I suspect. Though I guess this guy wasn’t very clear on that.
This is what's interesting to me about it I guess; I know people who are diagnosed with psychoses and from what they've shared I wouldn't expect a delusion during a break (if that's the word) to so fully fly in the face of something so tangible and so deeply ingrained in their daily life as that, for a train conductor. It's more like stuff is added to reality. Like maybe the train is talking to you. Not that I'm any kind of expert.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:01 AM on April 18, 2022
This is what's interesting to me about it I guess; I know people who are diagnosed with psychoses and from what they've shared I wouldn't expect a delusion during a break (if that's the word) to so fully fly in the face of something so tangible and so deeply ingrained in their daily life as that, for a train conductor. It's more like stuff is added to reality. Like maybe the train is talking to you. Not that I'm any kind of expert.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:01 AM on April 18, 2022
’Deprogramming' QAnon followers ignores free will and why they adopted the beliefs in the first place - argues against viewing Q-Anon beliefs as mental illness
A train going fast enough will go a certain distance upon leaving its rails, due to momentum. I expect a train driver would know that quite well. He doesn’t seem to have taken the time to do the relevant physics calculations for what that distance might be in the case of that particular train (which, fortunately for everyone else, were not favourable in terms of the train being able to get far enough to disrupt operations on the hospital ship). The concrete barrier designed to prevent just such a situation(*) certainly helped. (* More likely designed with an accidental rather than intentional train-not-stopping situation in mind, of course.)
posted by eviemath at 9:29 AM on April 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
A train going fast enough will go a certain distance upon leaving its rails, due to momentum. I expect a train driver would know that quite well. He doesn’t seem to have taken the time to do the relevant physics calculations for what that distance might be in the case of that particular train (which, fortunately for everyone else, were not favourable in terms of the train being able to get far enough to disrupt operations on the hospital ship). The concrete barrier designed to prevent just such a situation(*) certainly helped. (* More likely designed with an accidental rather than intentional train-not-stopping situation in mind, of course.)
posted by eviemath at 9:29 AM on April 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
I mean if you drive trains for a living, how do you imagine it had even a chance of getting there...
Probably much the same way you imagine the coronavirus is a hoax designed to help Bill Gates implant tiny wireless tracking chips in everyone.
posted by Naberius at 10:56 AM on April 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
Probably much the same way you imagine the coronavirus is a hoax designed to help Bill Gates implant tiny wireless tracking chips in everyone.
posted by Naberius at 10:56 AM on April 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
« Older Then where do all the calculators go? | "My summon sign will always be down for fellow... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:16 AM on April 17, 2022 [2 favorites]