The correct way to wash the dishes is
May 7, 2022 6:59 AM Subscribe
There are many methods for handwashing dishes, but which is right? Wikihow is scrub-centric, but Penny and Chris disagree about soaking and rinsing. A 2021 AskMe produced a range of MeFite protocols, while Elizabeth queries one British method. The American Cleaning Institute have a five-step recommendation, people discussed alternatives to soap, and several websites advocate mustard. On Twitter: incomplete, hand protection, unstacked. Alternative: consider paper plates. The author of "How to wash the dishes" recommends using wool, but no-one answered this urgent query. Good Housekeeping recommends getting someone else to do it.
Greatest thing we’ve ever done? All the spoons go in one utensil pod, the knives together in another, forks altogether as well. That way, when you unload, they’re grouped together for easy reload of your utensil drawer / cabinet / holding thingy.
posted by glaucon at 7:23 AM on May 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by glaucon at 7:23 AM on May 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
I've been seeing a fair number of articles like the "consider paper plates" link cropping up lately. I'm 99% sure they're bot-generated, especially with passages like this:
posted by darksasami at 7:51 AM on May 7, 2022 [15 favorites]
On the other hand, wash dishes might be an expensive option if you use your hands to wash them out. That’s because you will have to pay for the cleaning process and warm water not to spoil your food.At least, I hope nobody actually wrote this. Remember when Markov chains were fun-fun-silly-willy instead of cynical ad-revenue generators clogging the arteries of the internet?
However, if you consider both options, make sure that an efficient transport system does not consume too much energy and produce greenhouse gases.
posted by darksasami at 7:51 AM on May 7, 2022 [15 favorites]
The whole British thing of not rinsing off the soap from your dishes continues to mystify me. Most of my dishes go in the dishwasher, where I have to fix everyone else's haphazard placement to make sure that everything actually gets cleaned, with only the stuff that doesn't fit well actually washed by hand in the sink via the extremely inefficient keep the sink running method.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 7:52 AM on May 7, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 7:52 AM on May 7, 2022 [14 favorites]
I'm British and I've always thought people who fail to rinse off the soap bubbles are just plain wrong. In closing, we are a land of contrasts.
posted by Paul Slade at 7:56 AM on May 7, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 7:56 AM on May 7, 2022 [12 favorites]
My "consider paper plates" moment came when I heard of an interview with ex-President Carter where he started off by putting the paper plates from Dinner with Rosilyn in the trash.
posted by aleph at 7:56 AM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by aleph at 7:56 AM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
Chris says that because I don’t rinse them, my dishes are covered in suds and dirty water. But there’s no need to rinse if things have been scrubbed properly and left to drip-dry.
I work with the chemistry of soaps a fair bit and do some tests (e.g. interfacial tensions) that are really sensitive to surfactants, even mild ones. I've had to study how many rinses it takes to get things clean to get my tests to work and read a fair fraction of the literature on that subject. Not an expert on the subject, but a practitioner, let's say.
She's not right in this assessment, in my view. Her dishes are still covered in soap. When I've done this myself, I can, in fact still taste the soap on the dishes. I tend to do two or three complete rinses under hot water to get stuff clean, but I'm a bit of a freak, I guess. On the other hand, I've never had a batch of homebrewed wine fail on me either because of cleaning or sanitation issues.
For me personally, a couple-three rinses are what's necessary.
posted by bonehead at 7:59 AM on May 7, 2022 [43 favorites]
I work with the chemistry of soaps a fair bit and do some tests (e.g. interfacial tensions) that are really sensitive to surfactants, even mild ones. I've had to study how many rinses it takes to get things clean to get my tests to work and read a fair fraction of the literature on that subject. Not an expert on the subject, but a practitioner, let's say.
She's not right in this assessment, in my view. Her dishes are still covered in soap. When I've done this myself, I can, in fact still taste the soap on the dishes. I tend to do two or three complete rinses under hot water to get stuff clean, but I'm a bit of a freak, I guess. On the other hand, I've never had a batch of homebrewed wine fail on me either because of cleaning or sanitation issues.
For me personally, a couple-three rinses are what's necessary.
posted by bonehead at 7:59 AM on May 7, 2022 [43 favorites]
Handwashing dishes is incorrect. A dishwasher uses far less energy and water.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:10 AM on May 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:10 AM on May 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
Handwashing dishes is incorrect. A dishwasher uses far less energy and water .
Well, what was I thinking? I'd better snap my fingers and make the money for a dishwasher appear out of nowhere.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:15 AM on May 7, 2022 [40 favorites]
Well, what was I thinking? I'd better snap my fingers and make the money for a dishwasher appear out of nowhere.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:15 AM on May 7, 2022 [40 favorites]
We find that typical manual dishwashing behaviors result in the greatest greenhouse gas emissions (GHG). Even when recommended behaviors for machine dishwashers are not followed, they outperform typical manual dishwashing. Although manufacturers do not include typical behaviors like pre-rinsing when estimating
their value-chain emissions profile, these activities can increase lifetime GHG emissions by 17%. The sustainability of the average American household can be significantly enhanced by following recommended machine dishwashing instead of typical manual dishwashing, thereby reducing GHG emissions by 72%. [Porras, 2019, MSc. Thesis]
posted by bonehead at 8:16 AM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
their value-chain emissions profile, these activities can increase lifetime GHG emissions by 17%. The sustainability of the average American household can be significantly enhanced by following recommended machine dishwashing instead of typical manual dishwashing, thereby reducing GHG emissions by 72%. [Porras, 2019, MSc. Thesis]
posted by bonehead at 8:16 AM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Glaucon I find that the spoons tend to 'spoon' and not get properly rinsed off (in the dishwasher) so I make a point of mixing up the cutlery as much as possible.
so sorry, but I guess your favorite band sucks ;)
posted by supermedusa at 8:24 AM on May 7, 2022 [31 favorites]
so sorry, but I guess your favorite band sucks ;)
posted by supermedusa at 8:24 AM on May 7, 2022 [31 favorites]
stuff like this drives me crazy... can't it be enough that I do them at all?
posted by AlbertCalavicci at 8:28 AM on May 7, 2022 [19 favorites]
posted by AlbertCalavicci at 8:28 AM on May 7, 2022 [19 favorites]
To minimize water use, I:
- Put a small amount of water and dishwasher soap in one of the dishes, usually a bowl.
- Use only that small amount of soapy water to scrub all the dishes. Don't rinse any yet.
- When all dishes are washed, turn a small stream of water on for rinsing, and rinse all dishes one after the other.
I find that this saves a lot of water compared to the washing methods I grew up with because it requires a very small amount of water for washing, and because it saves all the extra water I waste when turning the tap on and off and on and off for rinsing.
I can accomplish most of what I used to accomplish by soaking by just doing a light scrub first with that small amount of water and then doing a second scrub a few minutes later. Most gunk doesn't need to be in deep water to give you the goodness of soaking. It only needs a thin later of water for a couple of minutes.
posted by clawsoon at 8:29 AM on May 7, 2022 [18 favorites]
- Put a small amount of water and dishwasher soap in one of the dishes, usually a bowl.
- Use only that small amount of soapy water to scrub all the dishes. Don't rinse any yet.
- When all dishes are washed, turn a small stream of water on for rinsing, and rinse all dishes one after the other.
I find that this saves a lot of water compared to the washing methods I grew up with because it requires a very small amount of water for washing, and because it saves all the extra water I waste when turning the tap on and off and on and off for rinsing.
I can accomplish most of what I used to accomplish by soaking by just doing a light scrub first with that small amount of water and then doing a second scrub a few minutes later. Most gunk doesn't need to be in deep water to give you the goodness of soaking. It only needs a thin later of water for a couple of minutes.
posted by clawsoon at 8:29 AM on May 7, 2022 [18 favorites]
Handwashing dishes is incorrect. A dishwasher uses far less energy and water.
I weigh the pros and cons, and about half the time the amount of dirty dishes I want to get clean seems too little make even a light washer cycle more efficient.
posted by Ayn Marx at 8:34 AM on May 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
I weigh the pros and cons, and about half the time the amount of dirty dishes I want to get clean seems too little make even a light washer cycle more efficient.
posted by Ayn Marx at 8:34 AM on May 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
Dirty dishes are my eternal foe. I change how I cook and serve food to minimize my dishes, sometimes to the detriment of the food. Sometimes I don’t cook because of the dirty dishes it will cause, or because of the dishes that are already dirty that I am not able to clean before I cook. Basically, anybody declaring what is right and wrong universally about how to wash dishes is getting in the way of me ever washing them at all. Whatever works for you is what works. Whatever gets you able to feed yourself and your family better, whatever helps you keep your food prep areas sanitary. Methods of mitigating household greenhouse emissions and water wastage can be inserted into the system at different points that don’t impact a person’s dishwashing preferences, methods that should be mandated by locality depending on climate and by federal law depending on national resources. But no. It’s the fault of the individual if they use the wrong soap or load the dishwasher wrong or use too many prep bowls or whatever. This is the kind of thing that anxiety disorders dream of.
posted by Mizu at 8:41 AM on May 7, 2022 [16 favorites]
posted by Mizu at 8:41 AM on May 7, 2022 [16 favorites]
I hate handwashing dishes. I feel like every time I do it, it take a ton of labor, energy, and water, and the dishes never seem to get as clean as they do with a dishwasher.
I also currently live in a... situation where I don't have terribly safe/consistent kitchen or sink access, so experimenting with slower methods like soaking was entirely out of the question. I've previously mostly lived in apartments that didn't have dishwashers and where it wouldn't be practical to install one.
I got one of these portable dishwashers with a built-in tank a few months ago and I wish I'd done it years and years ago. It's great. You just need a surface to put it on, a power outlet to plug it into, and a bucket or sink to run the drainage hose into.
posted by All Might Be Well at 8:45 AM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
I also currently live in a... situation where I don't have terribly safe/consistent kitchen or sink access, so experimenting with slower methods like soaking was entirely out of the question. I've previously mostly lived in apartments that didn't have dishwashers and where it wouldn't be practical to install one.
I got one of these portable dishwashers with a built-in tank a few months ago and I wish I'd done it years and years ago. It's great. You just need a surface to put it on, a power outlet to plug it into, and a bucket or sink to run the drainage hose into.
posted by All Might Be Well at 8:45 AM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
All I know is that if you have a sink with two sides it is wrong to pile dishes in both sides unless you are actively in the process of washing. I absolutely loathe walking over to the sink to do something and have to fish out or move dishes because there's no empty sink basin to work in.
posted by jzb at 8:47 AM on May 7, 2022 [25 favorites]
posted by jzb at 8:47 AM on May 7, 2022 [25 favorites]
I have just given up on showering regularly, so I can be profligate with my dish rinsing (the stuff that can't go in the dishwasher) woooo.
posted by supermedusa at 8:49 AM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by supermedusa at 8:49 AM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have just given up on showering regularly, so I can be profligate with my dish rinsing (the stuff that can't go in the dishwasher) woooo.
Despite the Seinfeld episode to the contrary, I don't think that's what you're supposed to use the shower for.
posted by Mayor West at 8:54 AM on May 7, 2022 [8 favorites]
Despite the Seinfeld episode to the contrary, I don't think that's what you're supposed to use the shower for.
posted by Mayor West at 8:54 AM on May 7, 2022 [8 favorites]
My stoneware dishes came with a warning that, if they are permitted to soak, the un-glazed ring on the bottom can allow water to enter the ceramic, and the dishes may lose their microwave-safe-ness.
This almost certainly explains why I couldn’t use my previous “microwave-safe” stoneware mugs in the microwave.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 8:54 AM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
This almost certainly explains why I couldn’t use my previous “microwave-safe” stoneware mugs in the microwave.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 8:54 AM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Late in life did I get an automatic dishwasher.
Yet later in life did I begin using it.
Never again will I feel guilt over pot or pan, nor knife of the sharp drawer being washed by my gleaming cube.
That said a spray bottle of water and dish soap to spray the soapy water directly onto the dish is a great dish soap saving trick.
Great for hand-washing, too.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 9:05 AM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yet later in life did I begin using it.
Never again will I feel guilt over pot or pan, nor knife of the sharp drawer being washed by my gleaming cube.
That said a spray bottle of water and dish soap to spray the soapy water directly onto the dish is a great dish soap saving trick.
Great for hand-washing, too.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 9:05 AM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
IMO, wool is the best material for clothing, hands down. I'm a huge fan of wool. But I ain't gonna wash dishes with a wool rag.
posted by SoberHighland at 9:15 AM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by SoberHighland at 9:15 AM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
The whole British thing of not rinsing off the soap from your dishes continues to mystify me.
This does still exist apparently, but I don't think it's widespread these days; no-one I've ever met who washed dishes* didn't rinse, and I've lived in loads of places with all sorts.
Part of the issue is mixer taps didn't used to be very common, so your choice was flesh-melting hot or freezing to rinse under a running tap. So the method I learned (from grandma) was to wash all the dishes, least dirty to dirtiest and put on the drainer. Once that was done, you emptied the bowl, refilled with clean water, then rinsed everything. One thing I have changed from her approach was then using a tea-towel to dry and put away; that just seems a good route to smear bacteria all over your nice clean plates, so I just air dry.
Now the thing that baffles my French wife is the British belief that a kitchen sink must have a plastic bowl in it at all times. She thinks we do it just to make the sink even smaller. (I used to kinda like being able to have a bowl of clean water without having to completely clean the sink, such as when rinsing, but that fight is long lost)
Buying a dishwasher was the best decision we ever made for marital harmony.
* caveat included for students whose approach to washing dishes appeared to be to wait for the mould to grow sentient enough to walk over and wash themselves.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 9:19 AM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
This does still exist apparently, but I don't think it's widespread these days; no-one I've ever met who washed dishes* didn't rinse, and I've lived in loads of places with all sorts.
Part of the issue is mixer taps didn't used to be very common, so your choice was flesh-melting hot or freezing to rinse under a running tap. So the method I learned (from grandma) was to wash all the dishes, least dirty to dirtiest and put on the drainer. Once that was done, you emptied the bowl, refilled with clean water, then rinsed everything. One thing I have changed from her approach was then using a tea-towel to dry and put away; that just seems a good route to smear bacteria all over your nice clean plates, so I just air dry.
Now the thing that baffles my French wife is the British belief that a kitchen sink must have a plastic bowl in it at all times. She thinks we do it just to make the sink even smaller. (I used to kinda like being able to have a bowl of clean water without having to completely clean the sink, such as when rinsing, but that fight is long lost)
Buying a dishwasher was the best decision we ever made for marital harmony.
* caveat included for students whose approach to washing dishes appeared to be to wait for the mould to grow sentient enough to walk over and wash themselves.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 9:19 AM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Jon Richardson has some thoughts on this subject. Many, many thoughts....
posted by Paul Slade at 9:21 AM on May 7, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 9:21 AM on May 7, 2022 [7 favorites]
In our household we have what we call the Labrador-Assisted Pre-Wash but I won't go into details
posted by Hogshead at 9:22 AM on May 7, 2022 [33 favorites]
posted by Hogshead at 9:22 AM on May 7, 2022 [33 favorites]
The recent eye-wateringly huge jumps in energy bills in the UK (with worse to come in October), plus some houses being on water meters, means many people are doing all of the calculations and having to economise in every way possible. This conversation, and similar, has come up a lot of late.
I stayed with someone a while back who didn't believe in rinsing (and a lot of other aspects of cleaning and hygiene) who repeatedly went down with stomach bugs and food poisoning (his argument that chopping raw meat and vegetables on the same board without washing it in-between was "fine" was a short-lived phyrric victory).
In my own place I've always rinsed, but not to an excessive extent; the water doesn't run unless there's something under it. Rinsing partially irritated my unpleasant, and unpleasantly miserable, grandfather, whose argument for many of his own actions was "we didn't do that in the war". When he and my grandmother moved into a bungalow in their elderly years the first thing they did was replace all the mixer taps with separate hot and cold water taps - which meant for rinsing, the two temperature options were near-freezing cold or scalding hot.
Oh, I also dated a Pagan who ran the dishwasher only during the night of the new moon, as well as doing a bunch of other domestic chores on that once-every-28-days-or-so time. Outside of then the dishwasher was used to hide her Ouija board, tarot deck and range of vibrators, as her devout evangelical parents had a habit of calling round without notice and that was the one place they wouldn't think of nosing into (unlike drawers and cupboards, the dishwasher made a loud noise when the door was opened).
posted by Wordshore at 9:28 AM on May 7, 2022 [15 favorites]
I stayed with someone a while back who didn't believe in rinsing (and a lot of other aspects of cleaning and hygiene) who repeatedly went down with stomach bugs and food poisoning (his argument that chopping raw meat and vegetables on the same board without washing it in-between was "fine" was a short-lived phyrric victory).
In my own place I've always rinsed, but not to an excessive extent; the water doesn't run unless there's something under it. Rinsing partially irritated my unpleasant, and unpleasantly miserable, grandfather, whose argument for many of his own actions was "we didn't do that in the war". When he and my grandmother moved into a bungalow in their elderly years the first thing they did was replace all the mixer taps with separate hot and cold water taps - which meant for rinsing, the two temperature options were near-freezing cold or scalding hot.
Oh, I also dated a Pagan who ran the dishwasher only during the night of the new moon, as well as doing a bunch of other domestic chores on that once-every-28-days-or-so time. Outside of then the dishwasher was used to hide her Ouija board, tarot deck and range of vibrators, as her devout evangelical parents had a habit of calling round without notice and that was the one place they wouldn't think of nosing into (unlike drawers and cupboards, the dishwasher made a loud noise when the door was opened).
posted by Wordshore at 9:28 AM on May 7, 2022 [15 favorites]
I hate handwashing dishes. I feel like every time I do it, it take a ton of labor, energy, and water, and the dishes never seem to get as clean as they do with a dishwasher.
Same... except for me the dishwasher alone often doesn't get dishes as clean as doing some pre-cleaning by hand, and sometimes it also requires a post-rinsing-off-soap-scum. Granted, our dishwasher was whatever the cheapest available POS was at the time the house flipper installed it incorrectly.
posted by Foosnark at 9:56 AM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Same... except for me the dishwasher alone often doesn't get dishes as clean as doing some pre-cleaning by hand, and sometimes it also requires a post-rinsing-off-soap-scum. Granted, our dishwasher was whatever the cheapest available POS was at the time the house flipper installed it incorrectly.
posted by Foosnark at 9:56 AM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Now the thing that baffles my French wife is the British belief that a kitchen sink must have a plastic bowl in it at all times.
Yeah, quite. I usually tell overseas friends and visitors it's so us British people can safely wash our pets and small children without the kitchen sink getting scratched, and no further questions thank you very much. There's a few more logical reasons on this reddit discussion.
I hate them. Not as much as one of my cousin does as she received one each from five different guests on her wedding. Cue the sounds of her unwrapping them while on a family Zoom chat, and in her deep Brummie (Birmingham) accent saying "It's another bloody washing up bowl. This one's from Kevin, the tightfisted Wolverhampton git".
posted by Wordshore at 10:02 AM on May 7, 2022 [15 favorites]
Yeah, quite. I usually tell overseas friends and visitors it's so us British people can safely wash our pets and small children without the kitchen sink getting scratched, and no further questions thank you very much. There's a few more logical reasons on this reddit discussion.
I hate them. Not as much as one of my cousin does as she received one each from five different guests on her wedding. Cue the sounds of her unwrapping them while on a family Zoom chat, and in her deep Brummie (Birmingham) accent saying "It's another bloody washing up bowl. This one's from Kevin, the tightfisted Wolverhampton git".
posted by Wordshore at 10:02 AM on May 7, 2022 [15 favorites]
So, I'm guessing most British sinks don't have a double basin?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:11 AM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:11 AM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Double sink is best sink!
I have a double sink and I keep a basin in one side for pretty much this reason. I can fill it with hot soapy water and chuck dishes in there to soak until I'm ready to deal with them. Because I have a double sink I use a basin that fits the entire area of the sink. I know I am living a blessed life 😉
posted by supermedusa at 10:20 AM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
I have a double sink and I keep a basin in one side for pretty much this reason. I can fill it with hot soapy water and chuck dishes in there to soak until I'm ready to deal with them. Because I have a double sink I use a basin that fits the entire area of the sink. I know I am living a blessed life 😉
posted by supermedusa at 10:20 AM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
The not-rinsing-the-soap-off thing is still popular in New Zealand when handwashing. Hated it.
posted by rednikki at 10:33 AM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by rednikki at 10:33 AM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
I feel it was here on the blue I learnt to soak not scrub. Good advice. But I love my dishwasher.
I don't mind washing up a couple of knives, chopping boards and pots because I am still grateful for owning a dishwasher after a lifetime of washing up by hand.
Back in the day, I soaked, washed and rinsed. And I used a washing-up bowl and rubber gloves. I preferred doing it myself. For one, I liked the alone time, and second, I enjoyed a job with immediate results. Though not enough to not get a dishwasher.
posted by mumimor at 10:44 AM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't mind washing up a couple of knives, chopping boards and pots because I am still grateful for owning a dishwasher after a lifetime of washing up by hand.
Back in the day, I soaked, washed and rinsed. And I used a washing-up bowl and rubber gloves. I preferred doing it myself. For one, I liked the alone time, and second, I enjoyed a job with immediate results. Though not enough to not get a dishwasher.
posted by mumimor at 10:44 AM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
When I met my wife, dates would consist of each of us travelling to each other's city for the weekend. She confessed she hates doing dishes on an early date, so I did her huge pile of them. I've been doing them ever since. Shortly after I moved in with her I even recorded a video of myself washing her dishes. I did them so often as she loved to cook, I did not want to forget, and also I'd gotten very efficient at it.
Back then I'd had year of living with artists in a collective, and the collective would have weekly 2 hour house meetings. There was a long standing rule at these meetings that dishes could not be discussed for the first hour, otherwise a group of 6-14 adults would sit around arguing about who didn't do the dishes for the whole of the 2 hour meeting. (The place had little sinks and hot plates for cooking.) I've literally been in red faced arguments with people who've claimed that because my dish was in the sink they couldn't cook and therefore I am threatening their lives. The result of this all is that after years of this I didn't mind doing dishes just so they'd be done.
So now my wife and I have a house and a dishwasher that I've gotten good at repairing. I am still the one who loads it. When I infrequently cook I'm great at cleaning up as I cook; my wife always leaves a horrid mess piled high. She's a good cook, so I don't mind most of the time. You get to know your dishwasher and how to load it best. I can load or empty it in half the time she does.
So I guess this subject is something I am doing every damn day. I once back when I was a very depressed 19 or 20 year old, I lived with another depressed someone and neither of us did the dishes for a solid year. So I've seen that pile of saddness, had the years of yelling over it with a cavalcade of roommates, and now reached an equilibrium where I know it's best to just have them done.
posted by Catblack at 10:47 AM on May 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
Back then I'd had year of living with artists in a collective, and the collective would have weekly 2 hour house meetings. There was a long standing rule at these meetings that dishes could not be discussed for the first hour, otherwise a group of 6-14 adults would sit around arguing about who didn't do the dishes for the whole of the 2 hour meeting. (The place had little sinks and hot plates for cooking.) I've literally been in red faced arguments with people who've claimed that because my dish was in the sink they couldn't cook and therefore I am threatening their lives. The result of this all is that after years of this I didn't mind doing dishes just so they'd be done.
So now my wife and I have a house and a dishwasher that I've gotten good at repairing. I am still the one who loads it. When I infrequently cook I'm great at cleaning up as I cook; my wife always leaves a horrid mess piled high. She's a good cook, so I don't mind most of the time. You get to know your dishwasher and how to load it best. I can load or empty it in half the time she does.
So I guess this subject is something I am doing every damn day. I once back when I was a very depressed 19 or 20 year old, I lived with another depressed someone and neither of us did the dishes for a solid year. So I've seen that pile of saddness, had the years of yelling over it with a cavalcade of roommates, and now reached an equilibrium where I know it's best to just have them done.
posted by Catblack at 10:47 AM on May 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
That said a spray bottle of water and dish soap to spray the soapy water directly onto the dish is a great dish soap saving trick.
Oh I like this...
posted by JoeXIII007 at 11:41 AM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
Oh I like this...
posted by JoeXIII007 at 11:41 AM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
My partner does the dishes and when it comes to hand washing is a de minimus rinser. As in, the dish passes under the stream of water on its way to the counter. This is wrong, obviously, and it grieves me to witness it, but the fact is that in actual usage I cannot discern between a rinsed item and a "rinsed" item. I'm sure I could if we used scented detergent (god knows I've gagged on enough Dawn-flavored oatmeal and whatnot at other people's houses), but we don't. So I've come to embrace the cognitive dissonance.
posted by HotToddy at 11:54 AM on May 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 11:54 AM on May 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
This does still exist apparently, but I don't think it's widespread these days; no-one I've ever met who washed dishes* didn't rinse, and I've lived in loads of places with all sorts.
The one Brit I've ever visited in his native habitat put his dishes to dry in the drainer without rinsing. When I asked about soap residue, he claimed that governing bodies wouldn't allow the dish detergent to be toxic. So I guess he was ok with ingesting it. Yuck.
People who don't soak, do you just never have melted cheese on your dishes? Or cooked-on egg??
And hey, while we're talking about upsettingly unhygienic practices, can we talk about people who never clean their dish drainers? In my experience, this is common in office kitchens and in bachelors' homes. I've seen drainers with pools of goo turning pink or green. Putting clean silverware business end down in those nasty holders is especially worrisome.
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 12:00 PM on May 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
The one Brit I've ever visited in his native habitat put his dishes to dry in the drainer without rinsing. When I asked about soap residue, he claimed that governing bodies wouldn't allow the dish detergent to be toxic. So I guess he was ok with ingesting it. Yuck.
People who don't soak, do you just never have melted cheese on your dishes? Or cooked-on egg??
And hey, while we're talking about upsettingly unhygienic practices, can we talk about people who never clean their dish drainers? In my experience, this is common in office kitchens and in bachelors' homes. I've seen drainers with pools of goo turning pink or green. Putting clean silverware business end down in those nasty holders is especially worrisome.
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 12:00 PM on May 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
In our household we have what we call the Labrador-Assisted Pre-Wash but I won't go into details
Recently we took our dog with us to stay with some friends. He sat very nicely under the table while we ate dinner, confident in his eventual reward, but then when the table clearing began, all the dishes were whisked straight from the table over his head to the counter without their usual stop on the floor for him to clean them. Oh, the baffled and forlorn look on his face as his head swiveled from table to counter with each trip! We just made laughing eye contact with each other and told him he was a good boy.
posted by HotToddy at 12:05 PM on May 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
Recently we took our dog with us to stay with some friends. He sat very nicely under the table while we ate dinner, confident in his eventual reward, but then when the table clearing began, all the dishes were whisked straight from the table over his head to the counter without their usual stop on the floor for him to clean them. Oh, the baffled and forlorn look on his face as his head swiveled from table to counter with each trip! We just made laughing eye contact with each other and told him he was a good boy.
posted by HotToddy at 12:05 PM on May 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
The only thing i would consistently soak is the rice cooker because that's really the only thing that would crust. Otherwise people here only soak as needed and even then not in apparently deep pools of water as I'm understanding here. Just enough to cover the eating surface with the drying remains but even then we'd scrape it all off to the bin first. Probably the high humidity climate means bugs and vermin is the bigger culprit than dried food, and even then those tiny bits of soaking is often a sign of a more conscientious kitchen. That said, British Commonwealth scholarship anecdotes really would include tales of anglo housemates not rinsing dishes.
posted by cendawanita at 12:11 PM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by cendawanita at 12:11 PM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I weigh the pros and cons, and about half the time the amount of dirty dishes I want to get clean seems too little make even a light washer cycle more efficient.
If your dishwasher was manufactured anytime in the past 25 years, it’s using about 3 gallons or 11 liters for an entire cycle of washing and rinsing . A typical kitchen faucet uses about 2 gallons or 7.5 liters per minute.
Use the dishwasher.
posted by rhymedirective at 12:42 PM on May 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
If your dishwasher was manufactured anytime in the past 25 years, it’s using about 3 gallons or 11 liters for an entire cycle of washing and rinsing . A typical kitchen faucet uses about 2 gallons or 7.5 liters per minute.
Use the dishwasher.
posted by rhymedirective at 12:42 PM on May 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
So, I'm guessing most British sinks don't have a double basin?
Have you seen the size of a typical British kitchen? They’re lucky to fit a kitchen in there!
posted by rhymedirective at 12:46 PM on May 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
Have you seen the size of a typical British kitchen? They’re lucky to fit a kitchen in there!
posted by rhymedirective at 12:46 PM on May 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
A typical kitchen faucet uses about 2 gallons or 7.5 liters per minute.
The average small British sink only holds about 8 litres so even when full up that's still less than the dishwasher.
posted by Lanark at 12:50 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
The average small British sink only holds about 8 litres so even when full up that's still less than the dishwasher.
posted by Lanark at 12:50 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
The average small British sink only holds about 8 litres so even when full up that's still less than the dishwasher.
Yeah but then you have fill it up again to rinse or rinse under running water!
posted by rhymedirective at 12:54 PM on May 7, 2022
Yeah but then you have fill it up again to rinse or rinse under running water!
posted by rhymedirective at 12:54 PM on May 7, 2022
Handwashing dishes is incorrect. A dishwasher uses far less energy and water.
This is true, especially for commercial kitchen dishwashers. Last year when I was working in my friends restaurant I did the math on this and did a breakdown proving that if we subscribed to an Autochlor machine the cost savings of using the machine and not having to buy our own soap and sanitizer that it would more than pay for itself even before we got to labor costs.
Granted this is at commercial kitchen scales and amounts of dishes, and that Autochlor machine had pumps, inline water heaters and detergents in it strong enough to strip off even baked on goo. And it used surprisingly little water compared to hand washing, and less energy, too, due to the internal water heaters as opposed to a hot water tank.
But man it made doing dishes so much easier when I could just rip through full racks of dishes one after the other compared to washing them all by hand with a huge triple sink that kept having to be drained, refilled and reset as things got messy and gross with food scraps.
In the extremely unlikely scenario I get to own a home and design my own kitchen I've always wanted to outfit it with commercial kitchen hardware to the point it would pass inspection and licensing as a commercial kitchen. Complete with reach-in fridges designed around hotel pan sizes, speedracks, stainless steel everything, vent hood, a French Top style plancha range and everything.
And an industrial strength dishwasher and dish racks. Dish racks are one of the key features to these commercial dishwashing machines. You have a stack of racks, 2-3 at a minimum, and you can load them up, slot them right into the machine, hit start, and less than 5 minutes later pull out a steaming hot rack of spotless dishes that are so warm they self-dry in a few minutes. And then your next rack of dishes is ready to go and there's no tedious hand-loading and unloading the internal racks like on a home dishwasher. You just pull the whole rack out and unload it from a comfortable height over the commercial sink or counter while the next rack is washing.
Repeat this and you can rip through a huge mountain of dishes in under an hour. A lot of home dishwashers take more than an hour to run through one cycle because they're vastly underpowered and just take too damn long.
Granted, an Autochlor machine is far from silent and it sounds like a jet engine falling apart, but hey, piping hot clean dishes in 5 minutes.
I've done some of the math on this and it would actually be much less expensive than a medium to high end kitchen built out of home grade appliances since you can get used hardware for massive discounts. You can get really big used reach in fridges for like $200-500 or even less while comparable residential fridges can be 2-4x the price or even more with half the volume and even less durability or lifespan.
The main drawback is it's going to look like a commercial kitchen. It's not going to be "pretty" but it sure would be a lot more fun and functional to cook in. This is why I roll my eyes when I see multi million dollar homes, mansions or estates - or even suburban planned community McMansions - with tens of thousands of dollars of marble or granite surfaces and fancy prosumer kitchen hardware.
For that kind of money you can hire an accomplished chef or kitchen manager to help you lay out a working kitchen, outfit it with amazing industrial grade kitchen hardware, get custom stainless steel fitted everywhere and build out a real commercial kitchen where it would be a lot more fun for dinner parties and entertaining because you basically have a full restaurant kitchen ready to go.
Bringing it back to hand washing dishes and on the more modest side of things, the house here recently had its tiny 70s or 80s vintage two basin sink replaced with a big stainless steel farmhouse style sink that's just about big enough for a half-size hotel sheet to fit in the bottom. It has a wire rack that fits in the bottom, a big tall gooseneck faucet with a retractable hose/head sprayer, a metal rack and a basket that fits in the top of the sink for prep work and washing veggies and even a soap pump dispenser built into the back edge.
There's also enough room to put a dish tub in there on one side for soaking and scrubbing while leaving almost two thirds of the rest of the sink open for rinsing. I think it's amazing.
posted by loquacious at 1:10 PM on May 7, 2022 [18 favorites]
This is true, especially for commercial kitchen dishwashers. Last year when I was working in my friends restaurant I did the math on this and did a breakdown proving that if we subscribed to an Autochlor machine the cost savings of using the machine and not having to buy our own soap and sanitizer that it would more than pay for itself even before we got to labor costs.
Granted this is at commercial kitchen scales and amounts of dishes, and that Autochlor machine had pumps, inline water heaters and detergents in it strong enough to strip off even baked on goo. And it used surprisingly little water compared to hand washing, and less energy, too, due to the internal water heaters as opposed to a hot water tank.
But man it made doing dishes so much easier when I could just rip through full racks of dishes one after the other compared to washing them all by hand with a huge triple sink that kept having to be drained, refilled and reset as things got messy and gross with food scraps.
In the extremely unlikely scenario I get to own a home and design my own kitchen I've always wanted to outfit it with commercial kitchen hardware to the point it would pass inspection and licensing as a commercial kitchen. Complete with reach-in fridges designed around hotel pan sizes, speedracks, stainless steel everything, vent hood, a French Top style plancha range and everything.
And an industrial strength dishwasher and dish racks. Dish racks are one of the key features to these commercial dishwashing machines. You have a stack of racks, 2-3 at a minimum, and you can load them up, slot them right into the machine, hit start, and less than 5 minutes later pull out a steaming hot rack of spotless dishes that are so warm they self-dry in a few minutes. And then your next rack of dishes is ready to go and there's no tedious hand-loading and unloading the internal racks like on a home dishwasher. You just pull the whole rack out and unload it from a comfortable height over the commercial sink or counter while the next rack is washing.
Repeat this and you can rip through a huge mountain of dishes in under an hour. A lot of home dishwashers take more than an hour to run through one cycle because they're vastly underpowered and just take too damn long.
Granted, an Autochlor machine is far from silent and it sounds like a jet engine falling apart, but hey, piping hot clean dishes in 5 minutes.
I've done some of the math on this and it would actually be much less expensive than a medium to high end kitchen built out of home grade appliances since you can get used hardware for massive discounts. You can get really big used reach in fridges for like $200-500 or even less while comparable residential fridges can be 2-4x the price or even more with half the volume and even less durability or lifespan.
The main drawback is it's going to look like a commercial kitchen. It's not going to be "pretty" but it sure would be a lot more fun and functional to cook in. This is why I roll my eyes when I see multi million dollar homes, mansions or estates - or even suburban planned community McMansions - with tens of thousands of dollars of marble or granite surfaces and fancy prosumer kitchen hardware.
For that kind of money you can hire an accomplished chef or kitchen manager to help you lay out a working kitchen, outfit it with amazing industrial grade kitchen hardware, get custom stainless steel fitted everywhere and build out a real commercial kitchen where it would be a lot more fun for dinner parties and entertaining because you basically have a full restaurant kitchen ready to go.
Bringing it back to hand washing dishes and on the more modest side of things, the house here recently had its tiny 70s or 80s vintage two basin sink replaced with a big stainless steel farmhouse style sink that's just about big enough for a half-size hotel sheet to fit in the bottom. It has a wire rack that fits in the bottom, a big tall gooseneck faucet with a retractable hose/head sprayer, a metal rack and a basket that fits in the top of the sink for prep work and washing veggies and even a soap pump dispenser built into the back edge.
There's also enough room to put a dish tub in there on one side for soaking and scrubbing while leaving almost two thirds of the rest of the sink open for rinsing. I think it's amazing.
posted by loquacious at 1:10 PM on May 7, 2022 [18 favorites]
So, baked on cheese and wax are difficult to get off dishes even with pre-soak plus can make the dishwasher cranky. I use a paint scraper tool with replacable blades. For really stubborn wax on things like candelabra the freezer works.
posted by jadepearl at 1:10 PM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by jadepearl at 1:10 PM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
We spend about a third of our time out at the cabin which doesn't have indoor plumbing. We do have water piped outside from the neighbor's well when it is above freezing though, so we can fetch that and fill a 4.5 gallon beer sparger for hot water. Then about a gallon each in three plastic basins (pre-rinse, soapy wash, final rinse) and careful sorting of dishes before washing ensures everything is clean for the next meal. The sparger is awesome, way better than heating a big pot of water on the wood stove.
posted by St. Oops at 1:14 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by St. Oops at 1:14 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's only 2 gallons per minute if you turn it on full blast. Rinsing under a small trickle of hot water is much less. You can even save it. Small layer of hot water in sink, do some dishes (no need for a bowl of soapy water when you have the sink). Drain sink. Plug sink up again and trickle rinse the things you've already done. Add more soap to the captured water and do the next batch. You do the same when starting.... soapy sponge, get plate wet, scrub a bit (do the easy ones), rinse in the stream. When you're done and have a bit of water in the sink add a bit more soap and there's the water for the first batch of dishes. Use the last collected water to wash the sink.
posted by zengargoyle at 1:15 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by zengargoyle at 1:15 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
...and detergents in it strong enough to strip off even baked on goo
Chlorine bleaches, Phosphates, triclosan, parabens and phthalates plus PVA from Dishwasher pods - the cost of removing all of those from the environment is never factored into these comparisons.
posted by Lanark at 1:20 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Chlorine bleaches, Phosphates, triclosan, parabens and phthalates plus PVA from Dishwasher pods - the cost of removing all of those from the environment is never factored into these comparisons.
posted by Lanark at 1:20 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'd use the dishwasher, but it leaks and given the well below market rent I'm paying there's no way in hell I'm asking the landlord to pay to get it repaired or replaced. I'd much rather wash dishes by hand than have to move to a different state because I'd no longer be able to afford the rent.
posted by wierdo at 1:31 PM on May 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 1:31 PM on May 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
I just moved out of our last place which had a dishwasher that 'worked' but at some point got something growing in it. I tried to clean it and then told the landlady but she didn't really care. So we stopped using it for 8 months or so. It took me a while to realize why my time spent in the kitchen went way up, because oh yeah it takes a lot more time to do it all by hand. I'm happy to be back now at a place with a dishwasher. It's so much nicer.
posted by Carillon at 1:43 PM on May 7, 2022
posted by Carillon at 1:43 PM on May 7, 2022
Nice to get a Wordshore post after the long hiatus. Thanks! St. Oops, what is a beer sparger?
posted by Bella Donna at 1:52 PM on May 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 1:52 PM on May 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
The mention above of Labrador-assisted pre-wash reminded me of this David Sedaris poem about dogs' oral hygiene:
Most ev'ry evening Goldilocks
Snacks from Kitty's litter box.
Then, on command, she gives her missus
Lots of little doggie kisses.
posted by Paul Slade at 1:57 PM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Most ev'ry evening Goldilocks
Snacks from Kitty's litter box.
Then, on command, she gives her missus
Lots of little doggie kisses.
posted by Paul Slade at 1:57 PM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Handwashing dishes is incorrect. A dishwasher uses far less energy and water.
This is just so perfectly wrong. Washing dishes by hand uses approximately zero energy, unless you count it as a workout, in which case that means you're out of shape.
My method, which has basically been described a few times in this thread: quickly rinse the bowl, plate, whatever of food scraps, turn off tap. Wash with a soapy sponge. Repeat until all dishes are cleaned and soapy. Letting them just soak in the suds helps clean them, especially the really greasy things.
I then kind of stack them up and start rinsing the top-most item; the water cascades down and by the time I get to the bottom item, it's more or less been rinsed.
I haven't had a dishwasher in decades now and I don't miss them. They're loud, hot, and yes expensive; stop using one for a month and you'll see a real difference with your electric bill.
posted by zardoz at 2:08 PM on May 7, 2022 [10 favorites]
This is just so perfectly wrong. Washing dishes by hand uses approximately zero energy, unless you count it as a workout, in which case that means you're out of shape.
My method, which has basically been described a few times in this thread: quickly rinse the bowl, plate, whatever of food scraps, turn off tap. Wash with a soapy sponge. Repeat until all dishes are cleaned and soapy. Letting them just soak in the suds helps clean them, especially the really greasy things.
I then kind of stack them up and start rinsing the top-most item; the water cascades down and by the time I get to the bottom item, it's more or less been rinsed.
I haven't had a dishwasher in decades now and I don't miss them. They're loud, hot, and yes expensive; stop using one for a month and you'll see a real difference with your electric bill.
posted by zardoz at 2:08 PM on May 7, 2022 [10 favorites]
I hand wash my dishes. I definitely do soaking, and I also don't eat animal products or cook with oil, and it doesn't seem to take too long or too much water, but I have never measured it. Granted I am also one person and dogs. I have never used the tiny dishwasher in my apartment, probably because I assume I'll have to wash the dishes before I put them in and if I already washed them then why would I put them in?
posted by Glinn at 2:09 PM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Glinn at 2:09 PM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't think we've discussed -- maybe the most important aspect -- scraping as much as you can off the plates into the garbage before the rest of the cleaning cycle continues. Every bit that goes into the garbage can doesn't go in the sink.
Well, we did discuss the Labrador.
posted by mikelieman at 2:23 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Well, we did discuss the Labrador.
posted by mikelieman at 2:23 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Metafilter: the goodness of soaking
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:21 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:21 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
I don't eat until the pans I prepped with, have been washed. When it is time to wash dishes from a meal, there is a plate, cup, utensils. I cook every day, I wash dishes as I use them. I clean my dish rack, I put something under the far end, so it really drains. I bought silverware that hangs on a rack, right on the window ledge by the sink. Dishes are not the hill I'm going to die on. That hill is Winco cream cheese frosted cinnamon rolls, with addition pecan pieces, pressed on top. They freeze well, and reheat in 50 seconds. I have a garbage disposal, but I make hardly any food waste. If I am going to cook meat which leaves a greasy residue, I cook it on parchment paper, and throw it away.
posted by Oyéah at 5:17 PM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 5:17 PM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
My method is close to clawsoon's, with the tweak that non-greasy items (like a fruit bowl) get rinsed first, and the runoff water gives the dirtier dishes a chance to soak.
I can't stand watching my husband do the dishes, as he would leave the (very hot) water on for the whole time, even when he's scrubbing the dishes.
Upon preview, like Oyéah, I also wash up as I cook, so at the end of the meal, that are just not that many items for the dishwasher, and our dishwasher ends up serving as a drying rack.
posted by of strange foe at 5:24 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
I can't stand watching my husband do the dishes, as he would leave the (very hot) water on for the whole time, even when he's scrubbing the dishes.
Upon preview, like Oyéah, I also wash up as I cook, so at the end of the meal, that are just not that many items for the dishwasher, and our dishwasher ends up serving as a drying rack.
posted by of strange foe at 5:24 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
I do miss having a dishwasher. I’ve had one more often than not, and I don’t care much for not. My sister and I were loading, running, and unloading the dishwasher by the time we started school.
The one I had the longest was the kind that you’d wheel over to the sink and attach to the faucet with a hose and coupler. I’d leave pots and pans that needed more soaking in the sink, and at the end of the cycle a bunch of super-hot, soapy water would gush out of a valve in the hose into the sink, and give the pots a good pre-wash.
I gave my mother a small, countertop model many years ago when I had a well-paying job, but it cost far more than I could ever dream of spending on anything today.
I think dish laundromats would be a great idea. I’d love to pack up a load of dishes once or twice a week and run them through a coin-op commercial washer instead of hand-scrubbing a sinkful of them every night.
Of course, no discussion of dishwashers would be complete without Vincent Price cooking a trout in the dishwasher for Johnny Carson. “I’ve been married so many times I’ve learned how to bone anything.”
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:49 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
The one I had the longest was the kind that you’d wheel over to the sink and attach to the faucet with a hose and coupler. I’d leave pots and pans that needed more soaking in the sink, and at the end of the cycle a bunch of super-hot, soapy water would gush out of a valve in the hose into the sink, and give the pots a good pre-wash.
I gave my mother a small, countertop model many years ago when I had a well-paying job, but it cost far more than I could ever dream of spending on anything today.
I think dish laundromats would be a great idea. I’d love to pack up a load of dishes once or twice a week and run them through a coin-op commercial washer instead of hand-scrubbing a sinkful of them every night.
Of course, no discussion of dishwashers would be complete without Vincent Price cooking a trout in the dishwasher for Johnny Carson. “I’ve been married so many times I’ve learned how to bone anything.”
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:49 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
The best cleaning tool are those brown nylon squares that came with Pampered Chef® cookware.
Or a sandblaster.
posted by clavdivs at 6:32 PM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Or a sandblaster.
posted by clavdivs at 6:32 PM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Technology Connections on dishwashers and detergent, I and II.
I am a believer in the presoaking the dishes in large pot with hot soapy water (and utensils in large glass) to get anything solid off, if I've made something sticky or greasy. Putting chunks of food into the DW will never feel right.
I'll use the pull down sprayer but don't let the water just run when getting the dishes ready for the DW.
I also pre-sort the utensils when loading the DW.
Recent cast iron cleaning discovery: rinse/scrape out over the sink (or trash of no disposal) and then just heat water in the pan and use a wood spoon to scrub with the chain mail thingie while water simmers. Dump the water, place back over heat to evaporate remaining moisture and then wipe on a bit of oil to season if needed. No more salt and bits of paper towel.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:36 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
I am a believer in the presoaking the dishes in large pot with hot soapy water (and utensils in large glass) to get anything solid off, if I've made something sticky or greasy. Putting chunks of food into the DW will never feel right.
I'll use the pull down sprayer but don't let the water just run when getting the dishes ready for the DW.
I also pre-sort the utensils when loading the DW.
Recent cast iron cleaning discovery: rinse/scrape out over the sink (or trash of no disposal) and then just heat water in the pan and use a wood spoon to scrub with the chain mail thingie while water simmers. Dump the water, place back over heat to evaporate remaining moisture and then wipe on a bit of oil to season if needed. No more salt and bits of paper towel.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:36 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
I've always absolutely loathed the dish-washing chore - frankly I'd rather clean gas station bathrooms. At some point in my life I decided that I was no longer willing to accept living in any rental space that didn't include a dishwasher. Assuming that in my twilight years I'm eventually going to be no longer able to afford such places, I'll probably switch to always dining out...or more likely dining out of cat-food cans; but let's put that thought on hold before I make this comment any darker. Point is, I hate washing dishes.
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:40 PM on May 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:40 PM on May 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
I am nearly at that place in life but my cat is tougher than I am.
posted by evilDoug at 6:51 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by evilDoug at 6:51 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Our general household rule, by no means absolute (I'm not a monster. Sometimes people are just tired and need to chill out and I'm willing make someone else's life a little easier as I know they will do the same for me later), is those who cook don't do the dishes. I do a lot of the cooking.
posted by AJScease at 6:52 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by AJScease at 6:52 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
When detergent commercials came on and bragged about cutting through baked on grease, my mother would always pipe up with "You know how you solve that? EAT LESS GREASE!"
posted by blnkfrnk at 7:09 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by blnkfrnk at 7:09 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
I only intermittently wash my frying pan (non-stick because eggs) and instead picked up the parental habit of wiping it clean with a used napkin while it's still warmish. If there's still visible bits of fried rice when I bring the pan out to use, I pour a little vegetable oil, warm the pan up and wipe it clean before using it again.
I've rarely lived in a place with a functioning dishwasher and the running joke among a lot kids of (Asian but also other continents I think!) immigrants was that our immigrant parents thought of it exclusively as a drying rack.
posted by spamandkimchi at 7:25 PM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I've rarely lived in a place with a functioning dishwasher and the running joke among a lot kids of (Asian but also other continents I think!) immigrants was that our immigrant parents thought of it exclusively as a drying rack.
posted by spamandkimchi at 7:25 PM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I've mostly gotten over hating to empty the dishwasher, but I'm bad about emptying the drainer of the plastic stuff and things that go in there.
I hate scrubbing roasting pans from roasted vegetables or whatever. My sister taught me a trick - Let it take another ride and some pans get several rides in the dishwasher. They still need some scrubbing eventually, not as much.
Chores are super-sucky.
posted by theora55 at 7:27 PM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I hate scrubbing roasting pans from roasted vegetables or whatever. My sister taught me a trick - Let it take another ride and some pans get several rides in the dishwasher. They still need some scrubbing eventually, not as much.
Chores are super-sucky.
posted by theora55 at 7:27 PM on May 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I use cold water exclusively, which almost is always sufficient since dirty dishes soak in a washing up tub. Except when there's caked on runny egg remains or a cheese explosion, and in that case I hope I remember that when I make the coffee that I want to pour the last half cup of super hot water from the electric kettle onto the gunky plate to get the grease off.
Do y'all use gloves when handwashing dishes? I started to even before the pandemic, but once the skin around my nail beds started cracking after the increased hygiene regimen I've had to use gloves. Also frankly, now that I'm in my 40s and my skin is aging rapidly, I'd like to coddle my skin as best as I can.
posted by spamandkimchi at 7:30 PM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Do y'all use gloves when handwashing dishes? I started to even before the pandemic, but once the skin around my nail beds started cracking after the increased hygiene regimen I've had to use gloves. Also frankly, now that I'm in my 40s and my skin is aging rapidly, I'd like to coddle my skin as best as I can.
posted by spamandkimchi at 7:30 PM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
I hate scrubbing roasting pans from roasted vegetables or whatever. My sister taught me a trick - Let it take another ride
Here's another trick: line the pan with aluminum foil, then just remove and throw away when done :)
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 7:56 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Here's another trick: line the pan with aluminum foil, then just remove and throw away when done :)
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 7:56 PM on May 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
Line it with parchment paper, no one has to mine metal, process ore, refine it, make it into foil. Parchment paper is from trees grown for the purpose.
posted by Oyéah at 8:18 PM on May 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 8:18 PM on May 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
I only found out about parchment paper when I was in my 30s! I had no idea of its existence and how it subs in for foil for most needs. Seconding Oyeah's recommendation. (Reminder to self, the paper that lines pizza boxes is NOT parchment paper and using it in the toaster oven to toast a slice of pizza will make everything taste like wax).
posted by spamandkimchi at 8:22 PM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by spamandkimchi at 8:22 PM on May 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
what is a beer sparger?
The beer sparger we use is basically a giant electric kettle with a thermostat and no auto-off, and a spigot mounted on the bottom. It's meant to hold a batch of homebrew at a set temperature for extended periods of time but it's off-schedule use for us is basically a counter-top water heater.
posted by St. Oops at 9:55 PM on May 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
The beer sparger we use is basically a giant electric kettle with a thermostat and no auto-off, and a spigot mounted on the bottom. It's meant to hold a batch of homebrew at a set temperature for extended periods of time but it's off-schedule use for us is basically a counter-top water heater.
posted by St. Oops at 9:55 PM on May 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
Our general household rule, by no means absolute (I'm not a monster. Sometimes people are just tired and need to chill out and I'm willing make someone else's life a little easier as I know they will do the same for me later), is those who cook don't do the dishes.
I can't live that way and be happy about it. Households that follow this rule, in my experience, end up doing way more dishwashing, in aggregate, than households that don't, simply because there isn't an immediate incentive for cooks to minimize the amount of mess they create as they go.
It seems to me that using a shared household space, such as a kitchen, should always be done in such a way as to leave it slightly tidier when you walk out of there than it was when you walked in, and that leaving a mess in the kitchen that somebody else is expected to clean up is just fundamentally disrespectful.
I hold laziness as the highest of virtues, but only the kind that involves behaving in ways that make as much work as possible unnecessary for everybody. And I'm much much happier, when it's my turn in the kitchen, for it to be fully my turn in the kitchen so that I'm not having to deal with endless repeats of the niggling frustration that comes from mandatory exposure to other people's failures to optimize their kitchen processes.
parchment paper, no one has to mine metal, process ore, refine it, make it into foil
and if you have wood heating, greasy folded-up wads of used parchment paper make excellent firelighters.
posted by flabdablet at 4:37 AM on May 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
I can't live that way and be happy about it. Households that follow this rule, in my experience, end up doing way more dishwashing, in aggregate, than households that don't, simply because there isn't an immediate incentive for cooks to minimize the amount of mess they create as they go.
It seems to me that using a shared household space, such as a kitchen, should always be done in such a way as to leave it slightly tidier when you walk out of there than it was when you walked in, and that leaving a mess in the kitchen that somebody else is expected to clean up is just fundamentally disrespectful.
I hold laziness as the highest of virtues, but only the kind that involves behaving in ways that make as much work as possible unnecessary for everybody. And I'm much much happier, when it's my turn in the kitchen, for it to be fully my turn in the kitchen so that I'm not having to deal with endless repeats of the niggling frustration that comes from mandatory exposure to other people's failures to optimize their kitchen processes.
parchment paper, no one has to mine metal, process ore, refine it, make it into foil
and if you have wood heating, greasy folded-up wads of used parchment paper make excellent firelighters.
posted by flabdablet at 4:37 AM on May 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
I haven't had a dishwasher in decades now
Since folks are saying the energy* comparison works for dishwashers made in the last 25 years, an experience from decades ago may not be so relevant.
*The energy is the water heating. If you are using more hot water than your dishwasher, you might well be using more energy, depending on how much additional energy the washer needs to pressurize the water and run the drain.
posted by solotoro at 6:28 AM on May 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Since folks are saying the energy* comparison works for dishwashers made in the last 25 years, an experience from decades ago may not be so relevant.
*The energy is the water heating. If you are using more hot water than your dishwasher, you might well be using more energy, depending on how much additional energy the washer needs to pressurize the water and run the drain.
posted by solotoro at 6:28 AM on May 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Washing dishes by hand uses approximately zero energy, unless you count it as a workout, in which case that means you're out of shape.
I mean, sure in a world where chronic or acute pain, illness, and injury don't exist, that might be an assumption you could make. If you do manage to find that world, let me know because I would LOVE for the energy I use washing dishes to not to cut into the amount of energy I have to do other things.
posted by Gygesringtone at 8:07 AM on May 8, 2022 [13 favorites]
I mean, sure in a world where chronic or acute pain, illness, and injury don't exist, that might be an assumption you could make. If you do manage to find that world, let me know because I would LOVE for the energy I use washing dishes to not to cut into the amount of energy I have to do other things.
posted by Gygesringtone at 8:07 AM on May 8, 2022 [13 favorites]
I love my dishwasher, and it uses less electricity and water than hand washing for me and my husband. It's like 3/4 the size of a standard model, we use an eco-friendly (I.e. safe for waterways) detergent, and the dishes always come out better than they do when I hand wash. We're on solar power so I'm not too fussed about energy, but I do like that it's much more efficient than my minimum hand wash amount of water (2 sink fills plus rinsing).
But there's no way I'd want one if I was still renting. No choice in the model or quality. Arranging any repairs or maintenance would be such a pain in the arse. Just hassle all around.
posted by harriet vane at 8:48 AM on May 8, 2022
But there's no way I'd want one if I was still renting. No choice in the model or quality. Arranging any repairs or maintenance would be such a pain in the arse. Just hassle all around.
posted by harriet vane at 8:48 AM on May 8, 2022
I've never had luck with putting dishes directly into the dishwasher without pre-rinsing, our dish washer is only a few years old but if I don't pre rinse everything I get baked on food detritus on the insides of glasses and on utensils. Combined with the fact that the bulk of my bowls and food storage stuff is old pyrex and not dishwasher safe I can't really use the dishwasher for much more than plates, glasses and utensils.
posted by Ferreous at 9:23 AM on May 8, 2022
posted by Ferreous at 9:23 AM on May 8, 2022
Personally, I typically do the dishes at four in the morning, when nearly all of the electricity used in my area is coming from a couple of nuclear plants, so the carbon cost of heating the water is about as small as can be.
Water usage is a much bigger consideration than energy use in many areas. In my particular case the problem isn't that we're in any danger of running out, it's that poor well field management leads to saltwater intrusion into the aquifer. Lowering peak draws helps, but the real solutions are systemic, not individual. Areas where the relevant authorities give half a shit have reversed the problem with relatively little expense.
posted by wierdo at 9:34 AM on May 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
Water usage is a much bigger consideration than energy use in many areas. In my particular case the problem isn't that we're in any danger of running out, it's that poor well field management leads to saltwater intrusion into the aquifer. Lowering peak draws helps, but the real solutions are systemic, not individual. Areas where the relevant authorities give half a shit have reversed the problem with relatively little expense.
posted by wierdo at 9:34 AM on May 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
Having more dishes, utensils than is strictly necessary for the household probably also makes the DW more efficient as a single person. So long as the space isn't taken up with cookware I don't need run it more often than every few days, if that.
Sadly the utility company here doesn't make its time-based energy rates attractive. You'd overpay significantly for unavoidable prime hour usage compared to what you'd save doing laundry and dishes on a timer at night. And work from home has only worsened that calculus.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:52 AM on May 8, 2022
Sadly the utility company here doesn't make its time-based energy rates attractive. You'd overpay significantly for unavoidable prime hour usage compared to what you'd save doing laundry and dishes on a timer at night. And work from home has only worsened that calculus.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:52 AM on May 8, 2022
Flock of Cynthiabirds, aluminum mining is really filthy and horrible for the environment. Food encrusted aluminum can't be recycled. I'd consider parchment paper, I guess.
posted by theora55 at 10:28 AM on May 8, 2022
posted by theora55 at 10:28 AM on May 8, 2022
Y'all know that when they talk about energy use, they mean the energy used to heat water, right? The significant personal effort required to do housework is seldom meaningfully calculated.
posted by theora55 at 10:30 AM on May 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 10:30 AM on May 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
I soak plates and silverware in a small amount of water, then rinse them and put them in the dishwasher. I know modern dishwashers are great but I'm in my late 50s and this cake is fully baked.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:41 AM on May 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 10:41 AM on May 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
Y'all know that when they talk about energy use, they mean the energy used to heat water, right?
And to run the appliance, yes. I'd use more water and water heat fully hand-washing and rinsing a smaller number of dishes, glasses and utensils every day. The labor savings is a separate consideration. I'm in the camp that says you have to do at least a little preparation for the DW, so I don't know how significant that labor savings really is.
I do strongly prefer having one, even if it's a shitty landlord special.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:03 AM on May 8, 2022
And to run the appliance, yes. I'd use more water and water heat fully hand-washing and rinsing a smaller number of dishes, glasses and utensils every day. The labor savings is a separate consideration. I'm in the camp that says you have to do at least a little preparation for the DW, so I don't know how significant that labor savings really is.
I do strongly prefer having one, even if it's a shitty landlord special.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:03 AM on May 8, 2022
With an epic drought happening here in the Southwestern US, I’ve grown to consider every drop of water as precious. So here is my hand washing routine (only works with a double basin sink).
First, I run the hot water into a large container. The container water is used to fill the toilet after a flush, fill the birdbath or water some plants. Once the water gets warm, I fill up one basin with soap and water and then the other basin with rinse water. I use a low suds soap like Dawn and sparingly (you don’t need mile high suds).
When the soapy water gets opaque (usually after dishes are done), I empty it and transfer the rinse water to the soap basin and add soap. That’s used to soak the next load of dishes for easier cleaning. I’m now thinking about collecting the soapy grey water for the outside garden.
I’ve thought about a getting a dishwasher, but I wonder about the soaps they use. What weird chemicals are in them that would go into my septic tank (or into your water system). And I’m able to reuse my water where the dishwasher’s water just goes right down the drain.
posted by jabo at 11:06 AM on May 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
First, I run the hot water into a large container. The container water is used to fill the toilet after a flush, fill the birdbath or water some plants. Once the water gets warm, I fill up one basin with soap and water and then the other basin with rinse water. I use a low suds soap like Dawn and sparingly (you don’t need mile high suds).
When the soapy water gets opaque (usually after dishes are done), I empty it and transfer the rinse water to the soap basin and add soap. That’s used to soak the next load of dishes for easier cleaning. I’m now thinking about collecting the soapy grey water for the outside garden.
I’ve thought about a getting a dishwasher, but I wonder about the soaps they use. What weird chemicals are in them that would go into my septic tank (or into your water system). And I’m able to reuse my water where the dishwasher’s water just goes right down the drain.
posted by jabo at 11:06 AM on May 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
I suppose I am fortunate that I am not a person who minds washing dishes. I don't like cooking and I'm not very good at it. but I like eating good food! my husband does all the (very good) cooking, makes a massive mess, uses every pot pan utensil etc...and I 100% don't mind. he even put a nice stereo in the kitchen so I can listen to music while I clean up. it gives me a chance to get out of my desk chair and move around a bit. we are the shameful sort of people who are too lazy to clean up after dinner, so that is a morning chore for me.
(I really hate cleaning the waffle iron, though. like, it's my absolute #1 worst chore. ugh. the waffles are very tasty tho...)
posted by supermedusa at 11:20 AM on May 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
(I really hate cleaning the waffle iron, though. like, it's my absolute #1 worst chore. ugh. the waffles are very tasty tho...)
posted by supermedusa at 11:20 AM on May 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
we are the shameful sort of people who are too lazy to clean up after dinner, so that is a morning chore for me
By my reckoning, attending to a chore in the way that creates the most work is the opposite of laziness.
I honestly cannot fathom the motivation for leaving food residue drying and hardening on dishes overnight. The only possible result of doing so is to make cleaning them a more unpleasant job that takes longer. Why would anybody voluntarily do it that way?
posted by flabdablet at 1:01 PM on May 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
By my reckoning, attending to a chore in the way that creates the most work is the opposite of laziness.
I honestly cannot fathom the motivation for leaving food residue drying and hardening on dishes overnight. The only possible result of doing so is to make cleaning them a more unpleasant job that takes longer. Why would anybody voluntarily do it that way?
posted by flabdablet at 1:01 PM on May 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
To annoy people who don't do it that way?
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:17 PM on May 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:17 PM on May 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
I grew up with a dishwasher in the house, but we also were terrible at leaving dirty dishes in the sink. My first few apartments didn't have dishwashers. If I was lucky, there'd be a double sink. The first house that we bought (circa 2006) was pretty tiny, but knowing that apartments in New York are tinier, we sought out an 18" dishwasher. Our next house came with a dishwasher, and more recently, we've been fortunate enough to be living in new construction, and for the first time in my life, I bought new kitchen appliances.
What's more... I read the instruction manuals for kitchen appliances, and it occurred to me that I hadn't really thought about how to use a dishwasher since, probably 1986. So now we're using JetDry, we're making sure the water's hot before starting the dishwasher, and using the detergent they tell us to use in the manual, and it just works every time.
Growing up, my family was a household of 5 - no doubt why the dishes piled up faster than the old dishwasher could keep up with. Now it's just my wife and I. It used to take a few days for the dishwasher to fill up, but post-pandemic WFH life means we're cooking a lot more, and so we run it almost every day.
The other thing I've done recently that's improved quality of kitchen life is, when scraping off food, put plant matter into a compost container, and whatever non-plant food scraps there are, either feed to the cats, or put outside. It means the kitchen trash bin doesn't stink, which is helpful for the occasion when I forget to drag the trash out to the curb.
posted by Leviathant at 3:13 PM on May 8, 2022
What's more... I read the instruction manuals for kitchen appliances, and it occurred to me that I hadn't really thought about how to use a dishwasher since, probably 1986. So now we're using JetDry, we're making sure the water's hot before starting the dishwasher, and using the detergent they tell us to use in the manual, and it just works every time.
Growing up, my family was a household of 5 - no doubt why the dishes piled up faster than the old dishwasher could keep up with. Now it's just my wife and I. It used to take a few days for the dishwasher to fill up, but post-pandemic WFH life means we're cooking a lot more, and so we run it almost every day.
The other thing I've done recently that's improved quality of kitchen life is, when scraping off food, put plant matter into a compost container, and whatever non-plant food scraps there are, either feed to the cats, or put outside. It means the kitchen trash bin doesn't stink, which is helpful for the occasion when I forget to drag the trash out to the curb.
posted by Leviathant at 3:13 PM on May 8, 2022
I honestly cannot fathom the motivation for leaving food residue drying and hardening on dishes overnight. The only possible result of doing so is to make cleaning them a more unpleasant job that takes longer. Why would anybody voluntarily do it that way?
As a person who's coping with a long term illness, going back to school, raising three kids and had the other adult in the house unable to contribute to the house work suddenly, I am perfectly o.k. with my family's overall cleanliness level being shifted to "not dangerous".
So, hey there you go, people voluntarily do it that way because everyone's life is their life, they have different priorities, restrictions, challenges, and energy levels. Question answered.
posted by Gygesringtone at 3:55 PM on May 8, 2022 [10 favorites]
As a person who's coping with a long term illness, going back to school, raising three kids and had the other adult in the house unable to contribute to the house work suddenly, I am perfectly o.k. with my family's overall cleanliness level being shifted to "not dangerous".
So, hey there you go, people voluntarily do it that way because everyone's life is their life, they have different priorities, restrictions, challenges, and energy levels. Question answered.
posted by Gygesringtone at 3:55 PM on May 8, 2022 [10 favorites]
flabdablet wine. The answer is wine.
posted by supermedusa at 4:36 PM on May 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 4:36 PM on May 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
Perhaps some find it more pleasant to relax after a meal rather than doing more labor. (Certainly, that's what your body usually wants you to do.) Especially if they also prepared the meal. Or perhaps they have more, other labor to do yet. Like laundry, or child care, or bills, or.....Perhaps some find it more efficient and less work to wait and do the dinner dishes with the breakfast dishes. Maybe some find it easier to soak than scrub.
I honestly cannot fathom failing to understand that people are different and so are their households and lives.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:41 PM on May 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
I honestly cannot fathom failing to understand that people are different and so are their households and lives.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:41 PM on May 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
Handwashing dishes is incorrect. A dishwasher uses far less energy and water.
I know multiple people whose pre-dishwasher routine involves enough scrubbing and soaking and rinsing that really they'd be better off (from an energy/water use perspective) just finishing the job by hand instead of then running the dishwasher -- if you've already cleaned the dishes to 90%, that last 10% doesn't take a lot more work. I don't agree with that approach, but it's their kitchen and their rules, so I'd never say anything, and if I am helping with the cleanup I go along with the rinsing and scrubbing.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:53 PM on May 8, 2022
I know multiple people whose pre-dishwasher routine involves enough scrubbing and soaking and rinsing that really they'd be better off (from an energy/water use perspective) just finishing the job by hand instead of then running the dishwasher -- if you've already cleaned the dishes to 90%, that last 10% doesn't take a lot more work. I don't agree with that approach, but it's their kitchen and their rules, so I'd never say anything, and if I am helping with the cleanup I go along with the rinsing and scrubbing.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:53 PM on May 8, 2022
Semipro tip: If I need to wash my hands in the kitchen I do it over the dishes that are soaking so they're soaking in soapy water.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:46 PM on May 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 5:46 PM on May 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Also! Sals Suds. (From the Dr. Bronner's people.) Can be heavily diluted for dishwashing (and especially for soaking). Plus a thousand other household uses (like small bits of string).
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:40 PM on May 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:40 PM on May 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
It cleans small bits of string? I'm in!!
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:06 PM on May 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:06 PM on May 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
There's an excruciating passive aggressive (that is to say, Canadian) method of hand washing dishes that requires at least three sinks. The first sink has hot water and detergent, the middle sink is a bleach soak, and the last is a clean water rinse. It's extremely slow and takes up loads of space, but you end up with the cleanest dishes and cutlery ever.
posted by scruss at 7:46 AM on May 9, 2022
posted by scruss at 7:46 AM on May 9, 2022
One of my earliest memories is of my dad complaining that his coffee was awfully soapy. I was four or five and I wanted to help wash the dishes (this is pre-dishwasher in my family home). I've been super paranoid about rinsing dishes ever since.
I've lived for the past 15 years in an almost-100-year-old house in New England. I sometimes feel like the only person I know who doesn't have a dishwasher. We can't afford to put one in.
posted by dlugoczaj at 8:04 AM on May 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
I've lived for the past 15 years in an almost-100-year-old house in New England. I sometimes feel like the only person I know who doesn't have a dishwasher. We can't afford to put one in.
posted by dlugoczaj at 8:04 AM on May 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
At the Buddhist monastery they washed the dishes by filling three tubs with water. The first tub has soap and you scrub the dishes in the hot soapy water. The second two tubs are for rinsing off the soap, then they go on the rack to dry. It worked for 100 people in a lunch...
posted by subdee at 8:30 AM on May 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by subdee at 8:30 AM on May 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
The three sink method is the restaurant standard for ages though usually the sanitizer is at the end. Bleach based sanitizers basically degrade into salt as they dry. A properly calibrated bleach water combo is also the best counter cleaner for the same reasons.
posted by Ferreous at 10:34 AM on May 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 10:34 AM on May 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
I know multiple people whose pre-dishwasher routine involves enough scrubbing and soaking and rinsing that really they'd be better off (from an energy/water use perspective) just finishing the job by hand instead of then running the dishwasher
I got a new dishwasher 4 years ago and before that it had been a long time since I had one but I remember having to wash the dishes before washing the dishes. One of the things that excited me the most about getting a new dishwasher was that I wouldn't need to do that anymore. When we got it I pushed things pretty far to see how dirty the dishes could get before the dishwasher couldn't handle it. Now I know that as long as I've got proper spacing between my dishes it'll clean anything. I could easily believe that there are lots of people with newer dishwashers that are still using them like older ones and unnecessarily cleaning their dishes ahead of time.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:03 PM on May 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
I got a new dishwasher 4 years ago and before that it had been a long time since I had one but I remember having to wash the dishes before washing the dishes. One of the things that excited me the most about getting a new dishwasher was that I wouldn't need to do that anymore. When we got it I pushed things pretty far to see how dirty the dishes could get before the dishwasher couldn't handle it. Now I know that as long as I've got proper spacing between my dishes it'll clean anything. I could easily believe that there are lots of people with newer dishwashers that are still using them like older ones and unnecessarily cleaning their dishes ahead of time.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:03 PM on May 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
You can tell from this thread too that people have vastly different standards for how clean dishes have to be, so for some, dishes straight out of the dishwasher put in unscrubbed may very well be clean enough, and for some it is not. It also very much depends on the dishwasher, not necessarily just the age of the machine either. Some work pretty well, some don't.
Also the average daily water usage is like 80-100 gallons per person, so as even if you leave the water running full-tilt for 20 minutes while you wash you aren't using that much more water than average. If you have a sprinkler system for your lawn, you probably use more water per minute.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:59 PM on May 9, 2022
Also the average daily water usage is like 80-100 gallons per person, so as even if you leave the water running full-tilt for 20 minutes while you wash you aren't using that much more water than average. If you have a sprinkler system for your lawn, you probably use more water per minute.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:59 PM on May 9, 2022
the first sink has hot water and detergent, the middle sink is a bleach soak, and the last is a clean water rinse. It's extremely slow and takes up loads of space, but you end up with the cleanest dishes and cutlery ever.
Similar to the US Marines' old way of doing things. 3 x 55 gallon drums. (ft. Mel Blanc)
posted by mikelieman at 3:07 PM on May 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
Similar to the US Marines' old way of doing things. 3 x 55 gallon drums. (ft. Mel Blanc)
posted by mikelieman at 3:07 PM on May 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
Detergent packs are kinda wishy-washy (Dishwashers Explained) - YouTube
I messed up. You're using too much detergent. - YouTube
Yeah, most modern-ish dishwashers don't need more than scraping off big bits.
We did the two sink thing at the bakery. One with soap and bleach to soak/scrub, the other water and bleach to rinse. Bleach turns harmless. But, pretty much everything industrial stainless steel and the water was scalding hot.
posted by zengargoyle at 1:10 AM on May 10, 2022
I messed up. You're using too much detergent. - YouTube
Yeah, most modern-ish dishwashers don't need more than scraping off big bits.
We did the two sink thing at the bakery. One with soap and bleach to soak/scrub, the other water and bleach to rinse. Bleach turns harmless. But, pretty much everything industrial stainless steel and the water was scalding hot.
posted by zengargoyle at 1:10 AM on May 10, 2022
modern-ish dishwashers don't need more than scraping off big bits
Mmmhmm! Yeah! I used to believe that, too! Of course I did! It's written in every modern-ish dishwasher manual multiple! motherfucking! times!
Do you like cleaning the dishwasher filter? Chipping and scraping the grotesque solidified Crisco-like nightmare alien creature biofilm off the goddamn thing in the middle of the night after the dishwasher decides that, no, it can no longer drain, now, because you believed the LIES LIES LIIIIIIIIIIIES in the dishwasher manual? If you don't know whether or not you enjoy that activity, don't wipe. Don't rinse. Just keep scraping off big bits and wait. Your dishwasher is waiting, too. Lying in wait for the chance to teach you your personal preference in the matter of dishwasher filters, all in the fullness of time.
posted by Don Pepino at 6:49 AM on May 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
Mmmhmm! Yeah! I used to believe that, too! Of course I did! It's written in every modern-ish dishwasher manual multiple! motherfucking! times!
Do you like cleaning the dishwasher filter? Chipping and scraping the grotesque solidified Crisco-like nightmare alien creature biofilm off the goddamn thing in the middle of the night after the dishwasher decides that, no, it can no longer drain, now, because you believed the LIES LIES LIIIIIIIIIIIES in the dishwasher manual? If you don't know whether or not you enjoy that activity, don't wipe. Don't rinse. Just keep scraping off big bits and wait. Your dishwasher is waiting, too. Lying in wait for the chance to teach you your personal preference in the matter of dishwasher filters, all in the fullness of time.
posted by Don Pepino at 6:49 AM on May 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
If it's the removable cylindrical type, pull it out and drop it into a small pot or bucket of simmering water and OxyClean. Leave it there for long enough for the gunk to start separating, then agitate with a wooden spoon. Repeat as needed until clear enough to rinse off and put back in.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:14 AM on May 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:14 AM on May 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
pull it out and drop it
!
thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou
...thank you so much...
I also watched the entire 48-minute "too much detergent" video, and now I'm going to try... Glisten!
posted by Don Pepino at 8:27 AM on May 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
!
thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou
...thank you so much...
I also watched the entire 48-minute "too much detergent" video, and now I'm going to try... Glisten!
posted by Don Pepino at 8:27 AM on May 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
dlugoczaj, I'm in the same boat as you are - old house and no money to put in a dishwasher. We had a small portable unit, but it was so clunky and could only do a tiny load, so we sold it and handwash now. I don't love it, but I don't think there are many options.
posted by PussKillian at 9:12 AM on May 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by PussKillian at 9:12 AM on May 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
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posted by jackbishop at 7:12 AM on May 7, 2022 [40 favorites]