the war on drag
June 10, 2022 4:13 AM Subscribe
Texas Rep. Bryan Slaton has proposed new legislation banning minors from attending drag shows. Florida lawmakers plan to follow suit with a bill that would charge an adult who brought a child to a drag show with a felony and terminate their parental rights. The drag show which prompted the response was also targeted by self-described "Christian fascist" protestors who chanted "groomer" at artists and families leaving the event. Many drag artists have responded, pointing out the hypocrisy of the movement.
Because Republicans are all about letting people decide for themselves what's best for their family.
Except when they're not.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 5:20 AM on June 10, 2022 [25 favorites]
Except when they're not.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 5:20 AM on June 10, 2022 [25 favorites]
These imbeciles are concerned about drag vs. abortion rights, voting rights, gun control, a pandemic, inflation, racism, single payer health insurance et al
posted by DJZouke at 5:26 AM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by DJZouke at 5:26 AM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
These imbeciles are concerned about drag vs. abortion rights, voting rights, gun control, a pandemic, inflation, racism, single payer health insurance et al
It gets worse.
Texas Rep. Steve Toth is planning to file legislation to tighten the state's obscenity laws to prohibit "obscene" material even if it has educational value citing Uvalde as an example of students being "targeted" at school. They're using gun control issues and school shooters to justify getting rid of LGBT+ themes and sexual education in the classroom.
posted by fight or flight at 5:38 AM on June 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
It gets worse.
Texas Rep. Steve Toth is planning to file legislation to tighten the state's obscenity laws to prohibit "obscene" material even if it has educational value citing Uvalde as an example of students being "targeted" at school. They're using gun control issues and school shooters to justify getting rid of LGBT+ themes and sexual education in the classroom.
posted by fight or flight at 5:38 AM on June 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
The "grooming" accusation is so disingenuous. Decades and decades of religious adults sexually abusing children and they said nothing. As soon as it's about consenting adults (and teaching children that they can grow up to become consenting adults) they freak out.
posted by clawsoon at 5:53 AM on June 10, 2022 [33 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 5:53 AM on June 10, 2022 [33 favorites]
It’s the cover story that will have legs. If you simply say, “Don’t do drag, it’s bad,” that’s not a strategy. If you start with a lightning rod issue - think of the children! - it’s a more effective way of getting full buy-in from the base, and it totally changes the messaging. It’s not about queer people, you see; it’s about making sure kids aren’t being objectified! Or learning about “adult” topics like queerness! And then there’s no good argument against that (no one wants kids objectified, duh.)
But, totally agreed here: this is on that path to outlawing queer people. I could easily see this escalate too. Where are all of the companies who invested heavily in Texas and made their logos rainbows on this now?
It’s a culture war.
posted by hijinx at 6:03 AM on June 10, 2022 [13 favorites]
But, totally agreed here: this is on that path to outlawing queer people. I could easily see this escalate too. Where are all of the companies who invested heavily in Texas and made their logos rainbows on this now?
It’s a culture war.
posted by hijinx at 6:03 AM on June 10, 2022 [13 favorites]
How low can they go? This "culture war" is getting old.
We took our ten-year-old girl and her BFF to a drag show when they were about ten, about the same era we took them to a midnight release of a Harry Potter novel.
Now, twenty years later, she is married to a man, wears dresses sometimes, and is not into witchery or wizardry. OK, she is a pretty vocal defender of trans rights, so there's that. In any case, I'm pretty sure taking her to a drag show was one of the least felonious things I've done in my life. WTF, Florida and Texas?
posted by kozad at 6:03 AM on June 10, 2022 [20 favorites]
We took our ten-year-old girl and her BFF to a drag show when they were about ten, about the same era we took them to a midnight release of a Harry Potter novel.
Now, twenty years later, she is married to a man, wears dresses sometimes, and is not into witchery or wizardry. OK, she is a pretty vocal defender of trans rights, so there's that. In any case, I'm pretty sure taking her to a drag show was one of the least felonious things I've done in my life. WTF, Florida and Texas?
posted by kozad at 6:03 AM on June 10, 2022 [20 favorites]
I literally can't think of anything more fun or useful for kids than a drag show. (Well, Mr. Rogers in drag, maybe.) Cripes. What a world!
posted by eotvos at 6:08 AM on June 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by eotvos at 6:08 AM on June 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
The whole thing is disingenuous. Assuming that the performers understand the "family friendly" assignment of such shows and don't have sex jokes, there's nothing that's sexualizing children. It's just like entertaining cartoon mascots to them. Mean while the culture at large is constantly sexualizing children - beauty pagents, prepubescent girls playing grown women in fashion and beauty shoots, infant onesies that say "look out ladies" or whatever, school dress codes that say showing a collarbone or too much of a lanky leg of an awkward teen in shorts is "distracting", internet countdown sites for celebrities turning 18, "barely legal" "teen" "babysitter" porn, parents chattering on the playground about "dad will need to chase the boys away"
This is just another rights robbery of anyone who isn't part of the christian fascist movement.
posted by WeekendJen at 6:09 AM on June 10, 2022 [29 favorites]
This is just another rights robbery of anyone who isn't part of the christian fascist movement.
posted by WeekendJen at 6:09 AM on June 10, 2022 [29 favorites]
It's not a "culture war", it's arguments for genocide. I think we need to stop ignoring the fact that these people know that these laws will lead to suicides and fatal hate crimes like the Pulse massacre (all it would take is one of those Christian fascists to be armed, which they undoubtably will be, and to decide to take the final step). They want to eradicate LGBTQIA people. Literally.
Next I believe we will see:
- bans on rainbow flags/pride flags/anything that looks like it's "pushing" gay lifestyles in schools, to go along with their "don't say gay" legislation
- pressure on LGBT+ adults to be banned from working with children in schools, entertainment venues, medical establishments, churches, etc in case they're "grooming" them
- to go along with the above, attempts to loosen privacy laws to allow schools and legislators to "investigate" and background check LGBT+ adults to see if they're a potential "danger" (i.e. if they do drag on the weekends)
- pressure on entertainment and media companies to stop producing queer content for children, or where children might see it
I hope it's obvious how this will impact not only LGBT+ people, but anyone who might be "suspected" of being queer. It will create a culture of fear and suspicion (which we know certain parts of the American public laps up eagerly, c.f. Joe McCarthy). It will directly lead to violence. It's already leading to violence.
Once the "grooming" term was allowed to gain traction, it spelled an era of danger for all LGBT+ people in the US (and worldwide, as we know many countries take their cue from the USA). If this isn't fought back against, hard and visibly, it will continue to erode queer civil rights, and I honestly don't want to think about how bad it can get.
posted by fight or flight at 6:21 AM on June 10, 2022 [64 favorites]
Next I believe we will see:
- bans on rainbow flags/pride flags/anything that looks like it's "pushing" gay lifestyles in schools, to go along with their "don't say gay" legislation
- pressure on LGBT+ adults to be banned from working with children in schools, entertainment venues, medical establishments, churches, etc in case they're "grooming" them
- to go along with the above, attempts to loosen privacy laws to allow schools and legislators to "investigate" and background check LGBT+ adults to see if they're a potential "danger" (i.e. if they do drag on the weekends)
- pressure on entertainment and media companies to stop producing queer content for children, or where children might see it
I hope it's obvious how this will impact not only LGBT+ people, but anyone who might be "suspected" of being queer. It will create a culture of fear and suspicion (which we know certain parts of the American public laps up eagerly, c.f. Joe McCarthy). It will directly lead to violence. It's already leading to violence.
Once the "grooming" term was allowed to gain traction, it spelled an era of danger for all LGBT+ people in the US (and worldwide, as we know many countries take their cue from the USA). If this isn't fought back against, hard and visibly, it will continue to erode queer civil rights, and I honestly don't want to think about how bad it can get.
posted by fight or flight at 6:21 AM on June 10, 2022 [64 favorites]
The "grooming" accusation is so disingenuous. Decades and decades of religious adults sexually abusing children and they said nothing.
It's been reported that Catholic priests abused 1,000 children in Pennsylvania over 70 years.
There are zero reports of children being abused at drag shows.
posted by mikelieman at 6:21 AM on June 10, 2022 [40 favorites]
It's been reported that Catholic priests abused 1,000 children in Pennsylvania over 70 years.
There are zero reports of children being abused at drag shows.
posted by mikelieman at 6:21 AM on June 10, 2022 [40 favorites]
They do realize there's about 17,000 hours of RuPaul's Drag Race that anyone can show their children at any time, right?
posted by rhymedirective at 6:21 AM on June 10, 2022 [16 favorites]
posted by rhymedirective at 6:21 AM on June 10, 2022 [16 favorites]
A critical piece here is the GOP's reliance on an ignorant mainstream as they persecute a minority. There are a lot of people who don't particularly care about this stuff but who associate drag with adult-oriented performance and who, because they don't have any close connections to queer people, have absolutely no idea that any drag performance done around kids is going to be fun and child-appropriate. Misinformed people who would not otherwise care tend to think "well, of course children should not be going to see a louche performance in a nightclub, what parent would do that" and go along with this stuff. (That's still a stupid position to take - every kid occasionally encounters some "adult" material unexpectedly, that's just part of growing up in the world and not in a nursery - but it's a comprehensible position.)
This is why they start by attacking trans people - there are enough visible gay, lesbian and bisexual people now that low-information people are not as easy to manipulate, but there are very few trans people. Starting with trans people, they can activate all these fear- and hate-based identities in people and then grow the movement. Start by attacking the most vulnerable as their entry strategy.
~~~
There are so many things that should be met with a shrug and "no opinion" but the internet both naturally and through manipulation can be used to get people to form identities around them and to create false ideas about norms, as if "most people" do one specific thing.
People raise their children many, many, many different ways, and for the most part it's a waste of time to get worked up about whether someone's kids might be watching an R-rated movie or eating twinkies before dinner or whatever. People are going to raise their kids in ways that I personally do not like. People on the left raise their kids in ways I don't like. And the internet throws all this stuff in my face all the time in an attempt to get me to build an identity as a Correct-Views-On-Kids-Haver and then mobilize me politically.
~~
Most of these hate campaigns are entertainment to the participants. Obviously it's entertainment to Proud Boys, etc, who enjoy beating and terrifying people, but it's also entertainment to Joe and Jill Suburban - they don't know any out queer people, they certainly don't know any visible trans people, their kids are never going to go to a drag show (unless they flee to the city and live on their own), there will never be a drag show or a gay bar in their little chunk of American paradise and no matter how many fascist laws get passed, they will continue to lead the same little lives they lead now. "Oooooh-er what if the kids went to a drag show" is just emotional entertainment for them, like getting really involved in Real Housewives or something.
Half the rise of fascism is because people for whom it will change nothing find that fascism is very entertaining and exciting and they lack both the ability to introspect and the will to stop being entertained.
posted by Frowner at 6:24 AM on June 10, 2022 [69 favorites]
This is why they start by attacking trans people - there are enough visible gay, lesbian and bisexual people now that low-information people are not as easy to manipulate, but there are very few trans people. Starting with trans people, they can activate all these fear- and hate-based identities in people and then grow the movement. Start by attacking the most vulnerable as their entry strategy.
~~~
There are so many things that should be met with a shrug and "no opinion" but the internet both naturally and through manipulation can be used to get people to form identities around them and to create false ideas about norms, as if "most people" do one specific thing.
People raise their children many, many, many different ways, and for the most part it's a waste of time to get worked up about whether someone's kids might be watching an R-rated movie or eating twinkies before dinner or whatever. People are going to raise their kids in ways that I personally do not like. People on the left raise their kids in ways I don't like. And the internet throws all this stuff in my face all the time in an attempt to get me to build an identity as a Correct-Views-On-Kids-Haver and then mobilize me politically.
~~
Most of these hate campaigns are entertainment to the participants. Obviously it's entertainment to Proud Boys, etc, who enjoy beating and terrifying people, but it's also entertainment to Joe and Jill Suburban - they don't know any out queer people, they certainly don't know any visible trans people, their kids are never going to go to a drag show (unless they flee to the city and live on their own), there will never be a drag show or a gay bar in their little chunk of American paradise and no matter how many fascist laws get passed, they will continue to lead the same little lives they lead now. "Oooooh-er what if the kids went to a drag show" is just emotional entertainment for them, like getting really involved in Real Housewives or something.
Half the rise of fascism is because people for whom it will change nothing find that fascism is very entertaining and exciting and they lack both the ability to introspect and the will to stop being entertained.
posted by Frowner at 6:24 AM on June 10, 2022 [69 favorites]
Also I hope it's obvious to everyone reading about this how this will be 100x worse for trans women who just want to exist in public. It's easy for these people to go from "you're performing drag on stage in front of minors" to "trans women in public are performing drag in front of minors".
Drag itself is a smokescreen issue. It's not the artform they hate, it's the concept of someone questioning their gender, performing a different gender, or being transfeminine. They see no difference between a drag queen and a trans woman walking down the street, because to them it's all the same.
Hate crimes against trans women are already high. They will increase in the wake of this legislation and the continued use of these terms by the GOP and their supporters. If there's ever been a time for people to be vocally anti-hate, it's now.
posted by fight or flight at 6:26 AM on June 10, 2022 [57 favorites]
Drag itself is a smokescreen issue. It's not the artform they hate, it's the concept of someone questioning their gender, performing a different gender, or being transfeminine. They see no difference between a drag queen and a trans woman walking down the street, because to them it's all the same.
Hate crimes against trans women are already high. They will increase in the wake of this legislation and the continued use of these terms by the GOP and their supporters. If there's ever been a time for people to be vocally anti-hate, it's now.
posted by fight or flight at 6:26 AM on June 10, 2022 [57 favorites]
Mrs. Doubtfire has entered the chat.
posted by hypnogogue at 6:32 AM on June 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by hypnogogue at 6:32 AM on June 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
How low can they go?
To quote a tiktok sketch series I follow, the bar is set in the crust of the earth and some people make digging their hobby.
And when you look that the extreme rightwing (which, right now, they're dragging all the so-called conservatives with them) and where they are on the Ten Stages of Genocide with relation to trans people, and how fast they can turn that to others on the LGBTQI+ spectrum, and how their rhetoric can easily pivot for the disabled...
This is why I'm looking into an adult trycicle and looking at road maps for unprotected border crossings.
posted by mephron at 7:08 AM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
To quote a tiktok sketch series I follow, the bar is set in the crust of the earth and some people make digging their hobby.
And when you look that the extreme rightwing (which, right now, they're dragging all the so-called conservatives with them) and where they are on the Ten Stages of Genocide with relation to trans people, and how fast they can turn that to others on the LGBTQI+ spectrum, and how their rhetoric can easily pivot for the disabled...
This is why I'm looking into an adult trycicle and looking at road maps for unprotected border crossings.
posted by mephron at 7:08 AM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
How low can they go?
There's some hearings on TV about the attempt to overthrow Biden's election that might help answer this question. The attacks on LGBT people are just a little hate appetizer to whet the appetite for the main event, the next coup attempt. The "groomer" nonsense is designed to bridge the insane QAnon child abuse narrative to mainstream politics so they can all work together.
posted by Nelson at 7:24 AM on June 10, 2022 [16 favorites]
There's some hearings on TV about the attempt to overthrow Biden's election that might help answer this question. The attacks on LGBT people are just a little hate appetizer to whet the appetite for the main event, the next coup attempt. The "groomer" nonsense is designed to bridge the insane QAnon child abuse narrative to mainstream politics so they can all work together.
posted by Nelson at 7:24 AM on June 10, 2022 [16 favorites]
Gillian Branstetter of the ACLU on twitter:
posted by fight or flight at 7:52 AM on June 10, 2022 [36 favorites]
Now would be a very good time for you to go read up on Russia's 2013 gay propaganda law, which effectively banned public displays of queerness and was soon followed by a ban on gay adoption. Both played no small part in stoking the 2017 pogroms in Chechnya.The 2013 Russian gay propaganda law:
This is what prompted @mashagessen to flee Russia with their partner and child. Treating queerness as inherently obscene and dangerous is a step towards treating queer people as inherently dangerous. That's not a "slippery slope"--it's just history.
It can all seem so silly; banning drag shows less than a month after 19 children were slaughtered in their classroom is absurd. But they're hoping you'll laugh it off. But ask parents in Texas or teachers in Florida or trans people anywhere--this is getting worse, not better.
The Russian government's stated purpose for the law is to protect children from being exposed to homosexuality—condemn presenting homosexuality as being a norm in society—under the argument that it contradicts traditional family values. The statute amended the country's child protection law and the Code of the Russian Federation on Administrative Offenses, to prohibit the distribution of "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relationships" among minors. This definition includes materials that "raises interest in" such relationships, cause minors to "form non-traditional sexual predispositions", or "[present] distorted ideas about the equal social value of traditional and non-traditional sexual relationships."Tell me that doesn't sound like the GOP's ideal outcome.
posted by fight or flight at 7:52 AM on June 10, 2022 [36 favorites]
"Gays should be shot in the back of the head", says Texas preacher.
posted by Goofyy at 8:04 AM on June 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Goofyy at 8:04 AM on June 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
They always come for those of us who are the most vulnerable first, but it's escalating. The rest of us queers know they're coming for us - we're not separate from the trans community, but attacking them is easiest because they're the most stigmatized. I'm a cis lesbian and in high school I had to deal with the fear of getting harassed in public bathrooms because I'm androgynous - my butch friends did get yelled at with some frequency, I just got more gender-conforming women avoiding me like I'm something scary (I'm average height and was very thin at the time).
I was fortunate enough that there was a GLB support group at my high school (absolutely no one was out trans in high school in the 90s) and through that we got some of the local drag performers to come and do a little mini-performance and talk with us - they did a very high-school appropriate version of their usual acts, talked with us, answered questions, it was wonderful. Having this made all the difference for me, just being able to get out of my parents' house and into a space that was actually affirming instead of the pretend-affirming "well of course there's nothing wrong with you but other people will judge you so you should at least pretend to be the feminine daughter we expected and have been pushing you to be for all this time, but now it's for SAFETY" that my otherwise very liberal parents dished out, never mind the dangers to me that not being able to be myself created.
Seeing this stuff and all the "people should be at church and not at drag shows!" crap is so infuriating. I've known and known of more people than I could ever tell you about who were thrown out by their parents and taken in by the local drag queens - all of them credit this as saving their lives. I know zero people who have been taken in by clergy members, or who found sanctuary through a church group, but tons - TONS - of people who cite church as a major cause of their internalized self-hate and homophobia, it's a major site of abuse for so many of us, and that's not to count the huge numbers of people who've been sexually abused by clergy.
Every accusation is a confession with conservatives.
posted by bile and syntax at 8:06 AM on June 10, 2022 [55 favorites]
I was fortunate enough that there was a GLB support group at my high school (absolutely no one was out trans in high school in the 90s) and through that we got some of the local drag performers to come and do a little mini-performance and talk with us - they did a very high-school appropriate version of their usual acts, talked with us, answered questions, it was wonderful. Having this made all the difference for me, just being able to get out of my parents' house and into a space that was actually affirming instead of the pretend-affirming "well of course there's nothing wrong with you but other people will judge you so you should at least pretend to be the feminine daughter we expected and have been pushing you to be for all this time, but now it's for SAFETY" that my otherwise very liberal parents dished out, never mind the dangers to me that not being able to be myself created.
Seeing this stuff and all the "people should be at church and not at drag shows!" crap is so infuriating. I've known and known of more people than I could ever tell you about who were thrown out by their parents and taken in by the local drag queens - all of them credit this as saving their lives. I know zero people who have been taken in by clergy members, or who found sanctuary through a church group, but tons - TONS - of people who cite church as a major cause of their internalized self-hate and homophobia, it's a major site of abuse for so many of us, and that's not to count the huge numbers of people who've been sexually abused by clergy.
Every accusation is a confession with conservatives.
posted by bile and syntax at 8:06 AM on June 10, 2022 [55 favorites]
Decades and decades of religious adults sexually abusing children and they said nothing.
As has been said many times before here, all right-wing accusations are a form of projection.
posted by ryanshepard at 8:07 AM on June 10, 2022 [8 favorites]
As has been said many times before here, all right-wing accusations are a form of projection.
posted by ryanshepard at 8:07 AM on June 10, 2022 [8 favorites]
I honestly can't think of more vital freedoms than the right to control your body, modify it if you want, have children if and when you want, dress the way you want, and be called by the name and pronouns that feel right for you. The First Amendment should protect every one of these things.
posted by bile and syntax at 8:23 AM on June 10, 2022 [25 favorites]
posted by bile and syntax at 8:23 AM on June 10, 2022 [25 favorites]
Sometimes I wonder if the people who get up in arms about this think that everyone else also constantly thinks of sex and associates everything with sex.
It's so fucking weird to me. Like Jessica Rabbit was a thing, but it was funny because of the exaggeration, not sexual, to my young mind. And I'd actually seen porn by then.
Either they are more deeply fucked up in the head than I realized despite living among them for the first 30 years of my life or they aren't serious in the least. I met enough people with such bizarre thoughts to not be surprised that there would be a few assholes throwing a tantrum, but the amount of traction this drag show thing has gotten just baffles me. They can't be serious.
posted by wierdo at 8:23 AM on June 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
It's so fucking weird to me. Like Jessica Rabbit was a thing, but it was funny because of the exaggeration, not sexual, to my young mind. And I'd actually seen porn by then.
Either they are more deeply fucked up in the head than I realized despite living among them for the first 30 years of my life or they aren't serious in the least. I met enough people with such bizarre thoughts to not be surprised that there would be a few assholes throwing a tantrum, but the amount of traction this drag show thing has gotten just baffles me. They can't be serious.
posted by wierdo at 8:23 AM on June 10, 2022 [4 favorites]
(I mean it is deadly serious and is going to get people hurt, but I can't believe they actually think that kids are actually being harmed in any way, shape, or form. It's got to be political posturing.)
posted by wierdo at 8:26 AM on June 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 8:26 AM on June 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
They see no difference between a drag queen and a trans woman walking down the street, because to them it's all the same.
I'm a singer-songwriter. Folk music vibes with a fantasy twist. I'm going to be performing in South Jersey at a small ren faire next week. They've assigned me to Storybrook Grove. My first time in a fairly uncontrolled public space. I'm really, really afraid of a parent seeing a trans woman singing in a dress. Understand that I wear no makeup, and the dress will be standard ren faire garb, and yet, in South Jersey, I might get complaints about a 'drag queen' 'grooming' kids.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 8:39 AM on June 10, 2022 [16 favorites]
I'm a singer-songwriter. Folk music vibes with a fantasy twist. I'm going to be performing in South Jersey at a small ren faire next week. They've assigned me to Storybrook Grove. My first time in a fairly uncontrolled public space. I'm really, really afraid of a parent seeing a trans woman singing in a dress. Understand that I wear no makeup, and the dress will be standard ren faire garb, and yet, in South Jersey, I might get complaints about a 'drag queen' 'grooming' kids.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 8:39 AM on June 10, 2022 [16 favorites]
this think that everyone else also constantly thinks of sex and associates everything with sex.
I think that, more specifically, they think of *deviancy* as inherently sex-related/adult. It shows up in a lot of their rhetoric. In their eyes, there's no such thing as a trans child, because being trans is an inherently adult & sexual thing, so the only way it could've reached a kid is if ~groomers~ got to them.
Bring your kid to Hooters? Sure, family-friendly fare. Maybe don't bring Mom, but there's nothing deviant about that, so go right ahead! (been there, done that, found a life-long love for buffalo wings while being confused what everyone else was expecting me to be focused on, got the t-shirt signed by all the waitresses)
Bring your kid to a drag show? It's deviating from the norm, so it *must* be sexual, and sexualizing the children (because why else would they be there?)
And yeah, this is some scary/horrific stuff. I'm hoping that the tack I've taken of "be a financial umbrella for those around me, be a safe stepping-stone for people uprooting to Blue cities so they can find work & permanent housing, be visibly boring so I avoid drawing notice in ways which might disrupt the other parts" will suffice for the foreseeable future. If it's not, that's another story (and there's an AskMe on that), but even if things proceed as well as is politically viable to hope for, it's still dark times ahead and getting darker.
posted by CrystalDave at 8:43 AM on June 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
I think that, more specifically, they think of *deviancy* as inherently sex-related/adult. It shows up in a lot of their rhetoric. In their eyes, there's no such thing as a trans child, because being trans is an inherently adult & sexual thing, so the only way it could've reached a kid is if ~groomers~ got to them.
Bring your kid to Hooters? Sure, family-friendly fare. Maybe don't bring Mom, but there's nothing deviant about that, so go right ahead! (been there, done that, found a life-long love for buffalo wings while being confused what everyone else was expecting me to be focused on, got the t-shirt signed by all the waitresses)
Bring your kid to a drag show? It's deviating from the norm, so it *must* be sexual, and sexualizing the children (because why else would they be there?)
And yeah, this is some scary/horrific stuff. I'm hoping that the tack I've taken of "be a financial umbrella for those around me, be a safe stepping-stone for people uprooting to Blue cities so they can find work & permanent housing, be visibly boring so I avoid drawing notice in ways which might disrupt the other parts" will suffice for the foreseeable future. If it's not, that's another story (and there's an AskMe on that), but even if things proceed as well as is politically viable to hope for, it's still dark times ahead and getting darker.
posted by CrystalDave at 8:43 AM on June 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
There are people deliberately spreading the lie that drag is basically the same as exotic dancing. Someone found an Instagram photo of a cis-female burlesque dancer with a little girl tucking a dollar bill into the side of her bikini bottom. The photo was cropped and passed around as evidence of the degeneracy and danger of drag queens.
Meanwhile, these same people aren't upset over little girls going to Hooters wearing tiny versions of the uniform.
posted by LindsayIrene at 8:46 AM on June 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
Meanwhile, these same people aren't upset over little girls going to Hooters wearing tiny versions of the uniform.
posted by LindsayIrene at 8:46 AM on June 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
They can't be serious.
They are entirely serious about committing genocide against all of us who cannot or will not conform to their norms, whether that's by driving us to suicide or shooting us in the streets. It's a very different view of the world, but telling yourself that it's not serious is a mistake.
posted by bile and syntax at 8:52 AM on June 10, 2022 [16 favorites]
They are entirely serious about committing genocide against all of us who cannot or will not conform to their norms, whether that's by driving us to suicide or shooting us in the streets. It's a very different view of the world, but telling yourself that it's not serious is a mistake.
posted by bile and syntax at 8:52 AM on June 10, 2022 [16 favorites]
They are serious. Yesterday Rick DeSantis' spokesperson shared old neo-Nazi propaganda as "evidence" that drag queens are exposing kids to inappropriate sexuality.
posted by Nelson at 8:57 AM on June 10, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 8:57 AM on June 10, 2022 [9 favorites]
DeSantis is also giving a speech in NYC on the anniversary of the Pulse massacre if any local Mefites want to go and protest.
posted by fight or flight at 9:04 AM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by fight or flight at 9:04 AM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
The 2013 Russian gay propaganda law:
...
posted by fight or flight
I'm glad you brought this up. I (in russia) just got off the phone with my dad (states) and I told him that it's drepressing to watch all this unfold from abroad because it just looks like the US is 10 years behind russian style fascism. I'm not a historian or great with words, but it feels the same and fills me with dread.
I also recently watched this great doc on Wojnarowicz and kept thinking his art could be referring to the US today, the US 30 years ago, or russia 10 years ago or russia today and it just depressed me that the same bullshit just keeps going on.
posted by WeekendJen at 9:16 AM on June 10, 2022 [15 favorites]
...
posted by fight or flight
I'm glad you brought this up. I (in russia) just got off the phone with my dad (states) and I told him that it's drepressing to watch all this unfold from abroad because it just looks like the US is 10 years behind russian style fascism. I'm not a historian or great with words, but it feels the same and fills me with dread.
I also recently watched this great doc on Wojnarowicz and kept thinking his art could be referring to the US today, the US 30 years ago, or russia 10 years ago or russia today and it just depressed me that the same bullshit just keeps going on.
posted by WeekendJen at 9:16 AM on June 10, 2022 [15 favorites]
Okay, Awkward
Oh, but it's fine when THEY do it! It's just a little harmless fun, because they're not disgusting perverts like the rest of us.
Never mind the makers of Borat catching Giuliani being a giant creep on film.
posted by bile and syntax at 9:19 AM on June 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
Oh, but it's fine when THEY do it! It's just a little harmless fun, because they're not disgusting perverts like the rest of us.
Never mind the makers of Borat catching Giuliani being a giant creep on film.
posted by bile and syntax at 9:19 AM on June 10, 2022 [6 favorites]
I feel like this all happening in June is on purpose. They want to ruin Pride. It's pretty much exactly ten days ago that I saw the 'take the rainbow back for God' memes start to flood social media.
posted by LindsayIrene at 9:22 AM on June 10, 2022 [16 favorites]
posted by LindsayIrene at 9:22 AM on June 10, 2022 [16 favorites]
I didn't read the article, but, if the felony is buying your kid a ticket to a drag show, maybe those kids should be getting free tickets?
I, for one, would donate most enthusiastically to a fund that made this happen.
posted by 7segment at 9:34 AM on June 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
I, for one, would donate most enthusiastically to a fund that made this happen.
posted by 7segment at 9:34 AM on June 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
They want to ruin Pride.
Remember that Pride commemorates a fight, and the fight is not over. In fact, it has escalated in recent years, and Republicans are, more than ever, fervently harnessing all the machinery of our massive, brutal, and carceral justice system into waging war on us queers.
Dance, but also shout.
posted by splitpeasoup at 9:39 AM on June 10, 2022 [27 favorites]
Remember that Pride commemorates a fight, and the fight is not over. In fact, it has escalated in recent years, and Republicans are, more than ever, fervently harnessing all the machinery of our massive, brutal, and carceral justice system into waging war on us queers.
Dance, but also shout.
posted by splitpeasoup at 9:39 AM on June 10, 2022 [27 favorites]
I feel like all the reasonable objections, all the gestures to the hypocrisy, basically any comment that doesn't face this square in the jaws as the violence and hate this represents, just feels like misting a rank turd with cologne.
louder for those in the back: stop trying to make any sense of this, let's move on from the hypocrisy of it, it's about the horror this represents. It's about moving the needle from Pretty Fucking Awful to Unimaginably Worse. I can imagine a lot of bad stuff, but the past several years have pretty much stripped me of some illusions.
There was a time when complacent N. Americans could read about something horrifying happening Somewhere Else, and pretend that's how the (other) world is. The world is here. Somewhere else is here. It is happening.
posted by elkevelvet at 10:07 AM on June 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
louder for those in the back: stop trying to make any sense of this, let's move on from the hypocrisy of it, it's about the horror this represents. It's about moving the needle from Pretty Fucking Awful to Unimaginably Worse. I can imagine a lot of bad stuff, but the past several years have pretty much stripped me of some illusions.
There was a time when complacent N. Americans could read about something horrifying happening Somewhere Else, and pretend that's how the (other) world is. The world is here. Somewhere else is here. It is happening.
posted by elkevelvet at 10:07 AM on June 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
Didn't the Houston Chronicle and Texas Tribune (not sure of the latter) release a massive report on the endless sexual assaults committed by their 'preachers' on women, children ? What are the odds that the piece of shit 'shoot them in the back of the head scumbag 'preacher' is in that report? I try so hard to not hate anyone, but really I cannot express how much I hate these vile assholes. I used to think their hypocrisy was one of their worst traits, but that's not the case, its obviously their escalating vicious attacks on the most vulnerable people among us. The pessimist in me just knows they are ramping up to widespread violence. We better be prepared to fight back.
posted by WatTylerJr at 10:30 AM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by WatTylerJr at 10:30 AM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
Mrs. Doubtfire has entered the chat.
--
Okay, awkward. (link to a video of Rudy Giuliani dressed as a woman)
Comedy using the 'man in a dress' trope played for laughs is not the same thing as 'drag the queer performance art and form of self expression' even if they both fit under the dictionary definition of 'drag'. Robin Williams was a staunch ally to lgbtq folks, no doubt, but some parts of that film did not age well. The plot is literally "man pretends to be a woman to gain access to children" and while his intentions are totally innocent in the film the broader implications of that narrative can be very harmful and it's eerily similar to the narrative spread by conservatives that we are talking about today. When Giuliani wears a dress the joke is that he is a man wearing a dress. This proposed legislation is about trying to prevent young people from being able to see queer people expressing themselves authentically, being joyful in their nonconformity, and finding strength in defying gendered expectations. This legislation and the ghouls promoting it won't target media where you are supposed to laugh at a man in a dress because the idea that 'a man wearing a dress is an appropriate target for laughter' is the norm that they are trying to reinforce.
posted by metaphorever at 10:47 AM on June 10, 2022 [43 favorites]
--
Okay, awkward. (link to a video of Rudy Giuliani dressed as a woman)
Comedy using the 'man in a dress' trope played for laughs is not the same thing as 'drag the queer performance art and form of self expression' even if they both fit under the dictionary definition of 'drag'. Robin Williams was a staunch ally to lgbtq folks, no doubt, but some parts of that film did not age well. The plot is literally "man pretends to be a woman to gain access to children" and while his intentions are totally innocent in the film the broader implications of that narrative can be very harmful and it's eerily similar to the narrative spread by conservatives that we are talking about today. When Giuliani wears a dress the joke is that he is a man wearing a dress. This proposed legislation is about trying to prevent young people from being able to see queer people expressing themselves authentically, being joyful in their nonconformity, and finding strength in defying gendered expectations. This legislation and the ghouls promoting it won't target media where you are supposed to laugh at a man in a dress because the idea that 'a man wearing a dress is an appropriate target for laughter' is the norm that they are trying to reinforce.
posted by metaphorever at 10:47 AM on June 10, 2022 [43 favorites]
They are so incredibly serious. I am often homesick for my community from Austin, but I am just as often frightened, and I'm so deeply glad to no longer live in Texas. I think there's a lot of people to fight for stuck in those places, because the cost of moving is real and it's painful, but I need the safety to recover for a while. And... well, I want to build enough stability to help other folks, if I can.
louder for those in the back: stop trying to make any sense of this, let's move on from the hypocrisy of it, it's about the horror this represents. It's about moving the needle from Pretty Fucking Awful to Unimaginably Worse. I can imagine a lot of bad stuff, but the past several years have pretty much stripped me of some illusions.
Yeah, it's--focusing on the hypocrisy is a way to laugh at these people and make them seem smaller and less dangerous than they are. They do not care about hypocrisy. They do not care about moral consistency. They do not care about anything but hurting the people they scapegoat for their own discontents, or to gain power from their flocks by directing them to attack a nebulous Other. They are monstrous.
I can't emphasize enough how frightening it is to live under a state government that openly hates you and leaps out at every interval to try to attack you, that grinds your community under its heels with every chance it gets. Seeing these people as a joke or an obvious cartoon elides the fear they build and inspire in the people who live in the communities they rule with voter suppression, instability, and cruelty. It's not funny. It's not ridiculous. It's terrifying.
posted by sciatrix at 11:00 AM on June 10, 2022 [26 favorites]
louder for those in the back: stop trying to make any sense of this, let's move on from the hypocrisy of it, it's about the horror this represents. It's about moving the needle from Pretty Fucking Awful to Unimaginably Worse. I can imagine a lot of bad stuff, but the past several years have pretty much stripped me of some illusions.
Yeah, it's--focusing on the hypocrisy is a way to laugh at these people and make them seem smaller and less dangerous than they are. They do not care about hypocrisy. They do not care about moral consistency. They do not care about anything but hurting the people they scapegoat for their own discontents, or to gain power from their flocks by directing them to attack a nebulous Other. They are monstrous.
I can't emphasize enough how frightening it is to live under a state government that openly hates you and leaps out at every interval to try to attack you, that grinds your community under its heels with every chance it gets. Seeing these people as a joke or an obvious cartoon elides the fear they build and inspire in the people who live in the communities they rule with voter suppression, instability, and cruelty. It's not funny. It's not ridiculous. It's terrifying.
posted by sciatrix at 11:00 AM on June 10, 2022 [26 favorites]
> It's not funny. It's not ridiculous. It's terrifying.
100% agreed.
I really wish metafilter could lay off the cute bullshit in threads like this. It's disheartening to see this kind of awful news that will affectyou and peopleyoulove, and then have to read some daft comments about hypocrisy, or narrow technicalities, or how silly the whole thing is.
posted by june_dodecahedron at 11:29 AM on June 10, 2022 [14 favorites]
100% agreed.
I really wish metafilter could lay off the cute bullshit in threads like this. It's disheartening to see this kind of awful news that will affectyou and peopleyoulove, and then have to read some daft comments about hypocrisy, or narrow technicalities, or how silly the whole thing is.
posted by june_dodecahedron at 11:29 AM on June 10, 2022 [14 favorites]
They do realize there's about 17,000 hours of RuPaul's Drag Race that anyone can show their children at any time, right?
For now.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:54 AM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
For now.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:54 AM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
As a bonus, diminishing it as “one lawmaker in Texas” or “one governor” obviates the damage that even proposing this garbage causes. Soon, it’s five governors or twenty five or forty. And then it’s banning queer content on private streaming services delivered via private ISPs. And then, in larger and larger steps, it becomes illegal. It is Actually Thoughtcrime, and it cannot be dismissed.
And I see funny quips on Twitter in retort or whatever, and those are completely useless. This is the time - if there is no other, this is the time - for people in power who actually give a damn to speak up and shut this down. Denounce these dangerous people. Bar them. Remove them from power. They are an existential threat.
That window of opportunity is a sliver at best. A sliver. And no sternly-worded letter, no amount of retweets, will change that. And I don’t see that at all, and that is completely terrifying. Huffing and puffing. No action.
posted by hijinx at 12:30 PM on June 10, 2022 [16 favorites]
And I see funny quips on Twitter in retort or whatever, and those are completely useless. This is the time - if there is no other, this is the time - for people in power who actually give a damn to speak up and shut this down. Denounce these dangerous people. Bar them. Remove them from power. They are an existential threat.
That window of opportunity is a sliver at best. A sliver. And no sternly-worded letter, no amount of retweets, will change that. And I don’t see that at all, and that is completely terrifying. Huffing and puffing. No action.
posted by hijinx at 12:30 PM on June 10, 2022 [16 favorites]
I feel like this all happening in June is on purpose. They want to ruin Pride. It's pretty much exactly ten days ago that I saw the 'take the rainbow back for God' memes start to flood social media.
Evangelicals: "We're traumatizing kids teaching them about homosexuality!"
Also Evangelicals: "Now kids, remember that the rainbow actually means that god promises not to kill everyone again in a giant flood although he does reserve the right to cull a few of us every now and then through a medium sized one."
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 12:32 PM on June 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
Evangelicals: "We're traumatizing kids teaching them about homosexuality!"
Also Evangelicals: "Now kids, remember that the rainbow actually means that god promises not to kill everyone again in a giant flood although he does reserve the right to cull a few of us every now and then through a medium sized one."
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 12:32 PM on June 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
I met my wife because of a drag show. I first joined her theater group for one production of it.
After my third show in that troupe, I proposed to her. This the second time I was in that particular drag show. I did not go in drag, but I had to perform a strip tease out of a suit of armor and then do a musical sword fight against one of the characters who was in drag.
Now I would like my 9 year old daughter to see that particular show some day. That it would be illegal in Texas make this that much sweeter.
Any Texan Savoyards going to do a run of Princess Ida now?
posted by ocschwar at 12:38 PM on June 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
After my third show in that troupe, I proposed to her. This the second time I was in that particular drag show. I did not go in drag, but I had to perform a strip tease out of a suit of armor and then do a musical sword fight against one of the characters who was in drag.
Now I would like my 9 year old daughter to see that particular show some day. That it would be illegal in Texas make this that much sweeter.
Any Texan Savoyards going to do a run of Princess Ida now?
posted by ocschwar at 12:38 PM on June 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
The Texas Freedom Coalition is trying to ban a whole swath of books including Bright Purple by Melody Carlson. Melody Carlson is a Christian author. The book came out from a Christian publisher. When I worked as a librarian in Garner, NC for a few months, Melody Carlson's books circulated like gangbusters because the evangelical parents would let their kids read them. If I remember correctly, the plotline of Bright Purple is that the main character's friend comes out as a lesbian, and the moral of the story is that homosexuality is bad but the main character should not be an asshole to her friend and keep sharing the gospel with her. This is too racy for public school!?
(Incidentally, one of the books that got challenged in Granbury, TX, is A Love Story Starring My Dead Best Friend, which I wrote. It has lesbians in it. It's pretty clean. It has a couple of curses in it. No sex.)
I am reminded of Harry G. Frankfurt's assertion about bullshit: ”It is just this lack of connection to a concern with truth—this indifference to how things really are—that I regard as the essence of bullshit.”
The people who are trying to ban drag, and ban books, are absolutely indifferent to whether such things are actually obscene by any reasonable definition, or whether such things are actually harmful to children by any reasonable definition. It's just a straight-up assertion of naked power. It's an assertion that they have enough people on their side to win even when their only argument is "OK groomer." And sometimes that strikes me as a ridiculous overplay - and sometimes it strikes me as really scary.
The rural Iowa community college where I work just had its first ever drag contest. We had a couple of 18-, 19-, 20-year olds who were just so thrilled to be there, to have organized it for themselves. I want so much for their futures.
posted by Jeanne at 12:49 PM on June 10, 2022 [30 favorites]
(Incidentally, one of the books that got challenged in Granbury, TX, is A Love Story Starring My Dead Best Friend, which I wrote. It has lesbians in it. It's pretty clean. It has a couple of curses in it. No sex.)
I am reminded of Harry G. Frankfurt's assertion about bullshit: ”It is just this lack of connection to a concern with truth—this indifference to how things really are—that I regard as the essence of bullshit.”
The people who are trying to ban drag, and ban books, are absolutely indifferent to whether such things are actually obscene by any reasonable definition, or whether such things are actually harmful to children by any reasonable definition. It's just a straight-up assertion of naked power. It's an assertion that they have enough people on their side to win even when their only argument is "OK groomer." And sometimes that strikes me as a ridiculous overplay - and sometimes it strikes me as really scary.
The rural Iowa community college where I work just had its first ever drag contest. We had a couple of 18-, 19-, 20-year olds who were just so thrilled to be there, to have organized it for themselves. I want so much for their futures.
posted by Jeanne at 12:49 PM on June 10, 2022 [30 favorites]
One wonders how this squares with the history of powderpuff football in Texas and the tradition that, during those games, the football players wear cheerleader outfits. It's common enough that it was a King of the Hill episode.
posted by hanov3r at 1:10 PM on June 10, 2022
posted by hanov3r at 1:10 PM on June 10, 2022
Didn't the Houston Chronicle and Texas Tribune (not sure of the latter) release a massive report on the endless sexual assaults committed by their 'preachers' on women, children ? What are the odds that the piece of shit 'shoot them in the back of the head scumbag 'preacher' is in that report?
Since we are talking about people who will accuse others of heinous crimes without any evidence I think it's important that we don't fall into the same trap ourselves. I downloaded the "List of Alleged Abusers" from the SBC and I am happy to report that Bro. Dillon Awes is not listed there nor is anyone from Stedfast Baptist Church which is not surprising because Stedfast is a Baptist Church in the south, not a Southern Baptist Church. What Awes is doing is harmful and reprehensible enough on its own. There's no need to make unfounded accusations when there is already so much to criticize about him.
The hate from this church is on a whole other level. I won't link to it but anyone still on the fence wondering "are they really serious?" is welcome to go to Stedfast Baptist KJV dot org and listen to Awes deliver his full "Why We Wont Shut Up" diatribe for yourself to see just how serious he is about this. Then you can listen to "Sodomite Salvation Debunked" delivered by their usual Pastor, Jonathan Shelley, to see how serious he is about it. Listen to how the crowd shouts out in approval when they start saying slurs and call for the systematic state execution (if only there was a word for that) of every queer person in the country and think about how serious they are.
posted by metaphorever at 2:55 PM on June 10, 2022 [11 favorites]
Since we are talking about people who will accuse others of heinous crimes without any evidence I think it's important that we don't fall into the same trap ourselves. I downloaded the "List of Alleged Abusers" from the SBC and I am happy to report that Bro. Dillon Awes is not listed there nor is anyone from Stedfast Baptist Church which is not surprising because Stedfast is a Baptist Church in the south, not a Southern Baptist Church. What Awes is doing is harmful and reprehensible enough on its own. There's no need to make unfounded accusations when there is already so much to criticize about him.
The hate from this church is on a whole other level. I won't link to it but anyone still on the fence wondering "are they really serious?" is welcome to go to Stedfast Baptist KJV dot org and listen to Awes deliver his full "Why We Wont Shut Up" diatribe for yourself to see just how serious he is about this. Then you can listen to "Sodomite Salvation Debunked" delivered by their usual Pastor, Jonathan Shelley, to see how serious he is about it. Listen to how the crowd shouts out in approval when they start saying slurs and call for the systematic state execution (if only there was a word for that) of every queer person in the country and think about how serious they are.
posted by metaphorever at 2:55 PM on June 10, 2022 [11 favorites]
I'm an old queen, and I've lived long enough to see this very strange moment where things are so, so much better for today's young trans folks than they were for me... and so, so much worse. They know a kind of acceptance I never could have imagined in the 90s, but they also also face a level of vilification even worse than we knew when I was young. Like, yeah, we got beaten up in the streets and we were a punchline in pop culture, but it never really felt like there were powerful, organized forces working to destroy us. We were regarded as gross weirdos, but at least we were long past the days when cops would bust into drag shows and arrest everybody. Right now we're on this weird tipping point where an absolutely mainstream, thoroughly mediocre celebrity dude can wear a dress on the red carpet and that's not a big deal, at the same time that people in the government are trying to make it a goddamned felony to take your kid to a drag show.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:12 PM on June 10, 2022 [41 favorites]
posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:12 PM on June 10, 2022 [41 favorites]
This shit is a preview of what happens to the whole country when Republicans take control of the senate and congress in 2022, and the presidency in 2024. This truly feels like we're living in the last days of the Weimar republic.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 4:32 PM on June 10, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 4:32 PM on June 10, 2022 [14 favorites]
There is a separate caste in this country. There always has been, and likely, there always will be. It is composed of WASP cis het male conservatives, and of those who agree with the former that the former should be the entitled caste in America. You don't have to be male (Phyllis Schlafly wasn't), white (Ben Carson isn't), het (so many I could name aren't) or check every other box; you simply have to bend the knee and accept the authority of those who do.
Sixty years ago in America, women couldn't get credit cards without their husband's approval, African-Americans were struggling for simple civil rights approaching equality, homosexuality was considered a mental disorder by some and mincing stereotypes most elsewhere, "cross-dressing" could get you arrested, and so on. People of all races and genders and preferences and creeds certainly existed in America; they were simply kept In Their Place by social structures and, often, by the law.
The last sixty years have been a slow teardown of that moral-scold authoritarianism that defined our nation's first hundred-and-eighty. It's slow going, and many still resist it mightily. But the legal systems and the court systems have slowly come to terms, to varying degrees, with the notion that women and LGBTs and non-whites and such are ACTUAL PEOPLE, and deserve equal rights and privileges and responsibilities.
And the people who believe in the superiority of the traditional caste, the people who don't believe deep down that others ARE equals, don't like that. They view those gains as reversible, capable of banishing wrong-thinkers back into the closets and the kitchens and the jail cells.
Donald Trump's message was a simple one: Make America 1950 Again. It hit the traditional ruling caste right in the spine and told them: you're right, you're superior, and you don't have to pretend otherwise any more. You can take control again by force, whether that force is social or legal or physical. Your kids, who are growing up around The Wrong People and learning firsthand that there's nothing to fear from them? You can teach them that they're wrong about that. You can shelter them from the world until their world is made safe for Decent People again.
And whoever the next guy is who rallies them, the one who'll have Trump's anger and bluntness but not his baggage or bluster or fists of ham? That's when we're all in trouble.
posted by delfin at 4:46 PM on June 10, 2022 [13 favorites]
Sixty years ago in America, women couldn't get credit cards without their husband's approval, African-Americans were struggling for simple civil rights approaching equality, homosexuality was considered a mental disorder by some and mincing stereotypes most elsewhere, "cross-dressing" could get you arrested, and so on. People of all races and genders and preferences and creeds certainly existed in America; they were simply kept In Their Place by social structures and, often, by the law.
The last sixty years have been a slow teardown of that moral-scold authoritarianism that defined our nation's first hundred-and-eighty. It's slow going, and many still resist it mightily. But the legal systems and the court systems have slowly come to terms, to varying degrees, with the notion that women and LGBTs and non-whites and such are ACTUAL PEOPLE, and deserve equal rights and privileges and responsibilities.
And the people who believe in the superiority of the traditional caste, the people who don't believe deep down that others ARE equals, don't like that. They view those gains as reversible, capable of banishing wrong-thinkers back into the closets and the kitchens and the jail cells.
Donald Trump's message was a simple one: Make America 1950 Again. It hit the traditional ruling caste right in the spine and told them: you're right, you're superior, and you don't have to pretend otherwise any more. You can take control again by force, whether that force is social or legal or physical. Your kids, who are growing up around The Wrong People and learning firsthand that there's nothing to fear from them? You can teach them that they're wrong about that. You can shelter them from the world until their world is made safe for Decent People again.
And whoever the next guy is who rallies them, the one who'll have Trump's anger and bluntness but not his baggage or bluster or fists of ham? That's when we're all in trouble.
posted by delfin at 4:46 PM on June 10, 2022 [13 favorites]
And whoever the next guy is who rallies them, the one who'll have Trump's anger and bluntness but not his baggage or bluster or fists of ham? That's when we're all in trouble.
Then we're in trouble? I'd say we're hip-deep in the shit already. Trump showed that you don't have to put a pretty face on this stuff.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:56 PM on June 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
Then we're in trouble? I'd say we're hip-deep in the shit already. Trump showed that you don't have to put a pretty face on this stuff.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:56 PM on June 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
Oh, we are, we are. And as I noted, we kind of always have been. There are many, many places in America that make the first two-thirds of Footloose seem like a documentary.
But the wave that we're riding at the moment is driven more by excess and fear than anything else. Rage against the dying of the White, if you will. Trump didn't put a pretty face on it, but when it came time to reelect him, he got his ass booted largely because he was a cartoon character. .
But a smooth-talking face on fascism... that could win back a lot of the Republicans who voted Biden over Trump but straight-ticket R for the rest.
posted by delfin at 5:15 PM on June 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
But the wave that we're riding at the moment is driven more by excess and fear than anything else. Rage against the dying of the White, if you will. Trump didn't put a pretty face on it, but when it came time to reelect him, he got his ass booted largely because he was a cartoon character. .
But a smooth-talking face on fascism... that could win back a lot of the Republicans who voted Biden over Trump but straight-ticket R for the rest.
posted by delfin at 5:15 PM on June 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
Carroll County (MD) school board bans pride flags
posted by postel's law at 6:13 PM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by postel's law at 6:13 PM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
for the psychos who pass these laws, it's a win/win. if it remains a local story, the laws stand and there is no opposition, whether or not it ever gets enforced. then they pass a worse version the next year. if it goes national, it adds to their culture war.
dems should take notice of these tactics and use them on the other side. for example, if the supreme court enshrines gun rights this summer and strikes down state law restrictions, blue states should pass laws that have similar restrictions as the stricken one, only with one word changed. let them sue. it will take years. appeal. if you lose, change one other word and pass the law again. meantime, fight the culture war and make the lawsuit a voting issue. have your state legislators say they didnt see the court order that struck the law. stop taking interviews.
at a certain point--and we are very much at that point-- you cant just rely on activism and good vibes and appeals to voting. you have to play the bad faith dirty games they do. obfuscate, propgandize, litigate, legislate.
posted by wibari at 7:34 PM on June 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
dems should take notice of these tactics and use them on the other side. for example, if the supreme court enshrines gun rights this summer and strikes down state law restrictions, blue states should pass laws that have similar restrictions as the stricken one, only with one word changed. let them sue. it will take years. appeal. if you lose, change one other word and pass the law again. meantime, fight the culture war and make the lawsuit a voting issue. have your state legislators say they didnt see the court order that struck the law. stop taking interviews.
at a certain point--and we are very much at that point-- you cant just rely on activism and good vibes and appeals to voting. you have to play the bad faith dirty games they do. obfuscate, propgandize, litigate, legislate.
posted by wibari at 7:34 PM on June 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
I think if they let gun rights stand, they should legalize LSD. It has harmed far fewer children on any level, and could possibly create a social change that would reduce gun violence dramatically.
posted by hippybear at 9:54 PM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 9:54 PM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
From a different story about the Carroll County flag ban:
I learned more about sex on the playground of my Baptist primary school than my parents ever talked to me about. And these kids have the Internet! Melissa Rectanus is living in a dreamworld, which wouldn’t be so bad if she didn’t want the rest of us forced to live in it with her.
Melissa Rectanus probably believes women pee out of their vaginas and men have a bone in their penises. And she’s projecting all her ignorance on her ten-year-old. God forbid she do her fucking job as a parent.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:19 PM on June 10, 2022 [26 favorites]
“...let's stop confusing these kids," Melissa Rectanus. “I have a problem with my 10-year-old coming home and saying, 'Hey mom, what's up with all these flags?' I'm not ready to teach him about sexual preference yet when he's 10. We need to let kids be kids.""Hey mom, what's up with all these flags?' said no ten-year-old, ever. That poor kid already has to deal with having that last name, and now he has to deal with all his schoolmates thinking he’s too stupid to know what the pride flag is, or that LGBTQIA+ people exist.
I learned more about sex on the playground of my Baptist primary school than my parents ever talked to me about. And these kids have the Internet! Melissa Rectanus is living in a dreamworld, which wouldn’t be so bad if she didn’t want the rest of us forced to live in it with her.
Melissa Rectanus probably believes women pee out of their vaginas and men have a bone in their penises. And she’s projecting all her ignorance on her ten-year-old. God forbid she do her fucking job as a parent.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:19 PM on June 10, 2022 [26 favorites]
> I'm an old queen, and I've lived long enough to see this very strange moment where things are so, so much better for today's young trans folks than they were for me... and so, so much worse. They know a kind of acceptance I never could have imagined in the 90s, but they also also face a level of vilification even worse than we knew when I was young.
Report Reveals Sharp Rise in Transgender Young People in the U.S. [ungated] - "New estimates based on C.D.C. health surveys point to a stark generational shift in the growth of the transgender population of the United States."
re: fascist entertainment...
@pkedrosky: "On the authoritarian impulse, I have found this helpful in explaining to me its otherwise baffling appeal in some places:"
also btw...
It's Going Down - "We also talk about growing splits within the Republican coalition and the turn towards openly authoritarian politics under the banner of 'Dark MAGA.'"[3,4] (this part starts at 30m49s)
posted by kliuless at 11:56 PM on June 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
Report Reveals Sharp Rise in Transgender Young People in the U.S. [ungated] - "New estimates based on C.D.C. health surveys point to a stark generational shift in the growth of the transgender population of the United States."
About 1.6 million people in the United States are transgender, and 43 percent of them are young adults or teenagers, according to a new report providing the most recent national estimates of this population.> Half the rise of fascism is because people for whom it will change nothing find that fascism is very entertaining and exciting and they lack both the ability to introspect and the will to stop being entertained.
The analysis, relying on government health surveys conducted from 2017 to 2020, estimated that 1.4 percent of 13- to 17-year-olds and 1.3 percent of 18- to 24-year-olds were transgender, compared with about 0.5 percent of all adults.
Those figures revealed a significant rise among younger people: The estimate of transgender people 13 to 25 nearly doubled since the researchers’ previous report, published in 2017, though the reports used different methods.
re: fascist entertainment...
@pkedrosky: "On the authoritarian impulse, I have found this helpful in explaining to me its otherwise baffling appeal in some places:"
In contrast to most of the established theories, we posit that people with authoritarian tendencies follow domineering leaders less for the pleasure of submission than for the pleasure of forcing moral outsiders to submit. Vicarious participation in the domination and punishment of out-groups is a core part of the authoritarian wish to follow a domineering leader. Hence, to activate this wish, leaders must be punitive and intolerant. Authoritarianism is not the wish to follow any and every authority but, rather, the wish to support a strong and determined authority who will "crush evil and take us back to our true path." Authorities who reject intolerance are anathema, and must be punished themselves.Source: The Anger Games: Who Voted for Donald Trump in the 2016 Election, and Why?[1,2]
also btw...
It's Going Down - "We also talk about growing splits within the Republican coalition and the turn towards openly authoritarian politics under the banner of 'Dark MAGA.'"[3,4] (this part starts at 30m49s)
posted by kliuless at 11:56 PM on June 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
Report Reveals Sharp Rise in Transgender Young People in the U.S.
I saw a lot of variations on this headline yesterday, but not a single one was the more accurate Report Reveals Sharp Rise in Young People Who Think Their Parents Won’t Murder Them in the U.S.
posted by Etrigan at 5:48 AM on June 11, 2022 [22 favorites]
I saw a lot of variations on this headline yesterday, but not a single one was the more accurate Report Reveals Sharp Rise in Young People Who Think Their Parents Won’t Murder Them in the U.S.
posted by Etrigan at 5:48 AM on June 11, 2022 [22 favorites]
I think if they let gun rights stand, they should legalize LSD.
I've long wondered what the impact of dosing CPAC or NRA Annual Meeting attendees might be, I'll say that.
posted by ryanshepard at 7:31 AM on June 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
I've long wondered what the impact of dosing CPAC or NRA Annual Meeting attendees might be, I'll say that.
posted by ryanshepard at 7:31 AM on June 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Anyway, off the guns and LSD derail... Today is Pride here in my area, and I'm really tempted to march with a brick in my hand. Not to throw, but as a symbol of how fucking angry I am right now.
posted by hippybear at 8:16 AM on June 11, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:16 AM on June 11, 2022 [14 favorites]
Catholic group promotes crowd-sourced 'Hide the Pride' library censorship
In which a far-right unofficial Catholic group encourages people to go to libraries, check out LGBTQ-themed books, then take them home and hide them from their kids.
Will this backfire because most parents aren't as good at hiding things from their kids as they think they are? Yes. Will it backfire because most libraries' response to seeing all the books in a display checked out is to make a bigger display, and their response to seeing all the books on a particular subject checked out is to buy more books? Also yes.
posted by box at 2:43 PM on June 11, 2022 [15 favorites]
In which a far-right unofficial Catholic group encourages people to go to libraries, check out LGBTQ-themed books, then take them home and hide them from their kids.
Will this backfire because most parents aren't as good at hiding things from their kids as they think they are? Yes. Will it backfire because most libraries' response to seeing all the books in a display checked out is to make a bigger display, and their response to seeing all the books on a particular subject checked out is to buy more books? Also yes.
posted by box at 2:43 PM on June 11, 2022 [15 favorites]
Authorities arrested 31 members of the white supremacist group Patriot Front near an Idaho pride event Saturday after they were found packed into the back of a U-Haul truck with riot gear.
More Christian fascist groups (many openly carrying guns) protesting the same Pride event. Plus videos in the thread of the Patriot Front arrest.
These groups are getting bolder, especially now they have a slogan to unite them ("let children be children" or "save our kids"). I really hope we get through summer without deaths at a Pride march. This is the first year I've actually been afraid of that possibility.
posted by fight or flight at 2:45 AM on June 12, 2022 [6 favorites]
More Christian fascist groups (many openly carrying guns) protesting the same Pride event. Plus videos in the thread of the Patriot Front arrest.
These groups are getting bolder, especially now they have a slogan to unite them ("let children be children" or "save our kids"). I really hope we get through summer without deaths at a Pride march. This is the first year I've actually been afraid of that possibility.
posted by fight or flight at 2:45 AM on June 12, 2022 [6 favorites]
The thwarted attack on this Coeur d'Alene Pride event has really rattled me. A bunch of families are trying to have a joyful party in a park. And in response a group of fascists show up with guns wandering around all day intimidating them. And then there's the clown-car full of a small army about to riot. It could have ended up with a lot of people dead very easily.
NPR's report on it this morning does a good job explaining the larger context both at the event and more generally of how attacks on LGBT people are a new unifying issue for the violent right wing.
The Spokane newspaper is also good for local details. The Coeur d'Alene paper also has an article on the arrest. and a second happier article with photos from the Pride event. See also Boise paper, NYT, WashPo, AP.
posted by Nelson at 7:35 AM on June 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
NPR's report on it this morning does a good job explaining the larger context both at the event and more generally of how attacks on LGBT people are a new unifying issue for the violent right wing.
The Spokane newspaper is also good for local details. The Coeur d'Alene paper also has an article on the arrest. and a second happier article with photos from the Pride event. See also Boise paper, NYT, WashPo, AP.
posted by Nelson at 7:35 AM on June 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
And so I didn't carry a brick at Pride yesterday, largely because I forgot to take one.
And I guess maybe I should have because in Coeur d'Alene, only 45 miles away, at THEIR Pride, an assault by the Patriot Front was halted 1/8th of a mile away from the celebration, ending with the arrest of 31 men in uniforms and masks with weapons for conspiracy to riot.
In good news, the Hateful Jesus Person With A Bullhorn who has been at every other Pride in Spokane was NOT there yesterday. I walked into the event prepared to try to start a point-and-shame "One Day Without Hate" chant to try to drive them off, but didn't have to.
posted by hippybear at 7:37 AM on June 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
And I guess maybe I should have because in Coeur d'Alene, only 45 miles away, at THEIR Pride, an assault by the Patriot Front was halted 1/8th of a mile away from the celebration, ending with the arrest of 31 men in uniforms and masks with weapons for conspiracy to riot.
In good news, the Hateful Jesus Person With A Bullhorn who has been at every other Pride in Spokane was NOT there yesterday. I walked into the event prepared to try to start a point-and-shame "One Day Without Hate" chant to try to drive them off, but didn't have to.
posted by hippybear at 7:37 AM on June 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
Given the prevalence of white supremacist groups in Idaho, I’ve found myself wondering what might have gone differently if the Uvalde cops weren’t in the spotlight for severe incompetence. I can’t imagine that law enforcement there hasn’t been infiltrated.
posted by bile and syntax at 8:37 AM on June 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by bile and syntax at 8:37 AM on June 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
The Coeur d'Alene paper also has an article on the arrest.
That picture of the Sheriff in armor. Wow. I do not want to derail this thread with a discussion about the police. I need to say, however, that it is a strange feeling for me as a member of a marginalized group to see a photo like that and tell myself that this time, this is someone protecting my people.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 9:36 AM on June 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
That picture of the Sheriff in armor. Wow. I do not want to derail this thread with a discussion about the police. I need to say, however, that it is a strange feeling for me as a member of a marginalized group to see a photo like that and tell myself that this time, this is someone protecting my people.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 9:36 AM on June 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Via Unicorn Riot, Patriot Front Meetings Spell Out Racist Network’s Plans & Hateful Operations:
22 audio files obtained by Unicorn Riot reveal the inner workings and deeply bigoted shared mindset of members of Patriot Front, the largest fascist organization currently operating in the United States. Roughly 17 hours of regional network chapter meetings, national meetings, and informal hangouts in late 2021 show how the fascists rally one another and plaster the Pacific Northwest with “promat” or promotional materials. Megalomaniacal leader Thomas Rousseau’s tight fist of control is exemplified by how he micromanages group activities, like the destruction of a large LGBT-themed mural in Olympia, WA.
This release follows more than 400 gigabytes of leaked media from inside Patriot Front and 7 months of RocketChat group chat logs Unicorn Riot obtained and released in January 2022.
Among many themes in these recordings: prominent members share tips on avoiding trouble with authorities and set up interstate trips to recruit, practice field group maneuvers and try to intimidate the public by attacking symbols of tolerance like community murals. Less formal voice chat sessions dwell on racist, antisemitic and homophobic themes. Florida Network Director Stephen Trimboli (‘ND – ‘Lawrence FL‘) encourages members to take their girlfriends along on racist vandalism missions so they can create “blackmail” leverage against them.
And, now, this:
Proud Boys disrupted drag queen storytelling at San Lorenzo library
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:05 PM on June 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
22 audio files obtained by Unicorn Riot reveal the inner workings and deeply bigoted shared mindset of members of Patriot Front, the largest fascist organization currently operating in the United States. Roughly 17 hours of regional network chapter meetings, national meetings, and informal hangouts in late 2021 show how the fascists rally one another and plaster the Pacific Northwest with “promat” or promotional materials. Megalomaniacal leader Thomas Rousseau’s tight fist of control is exemplified by how he micromanages group activities, like the destruction of a large LGBT-themed mural in Olympia, WA.
This release follows more than 400 gigabytes of leaked media from inside Patriot Front and 7 months of RocketChat group chat logs Unicorn Riot obtained and released in January 2022.
Among many themes in these recordings: prominent members share tips on avoiding trouble with authorities and set up interstate trips to recruit, practice field group maneuvers and try to intimidate the public by attacking symbols of tolerance like community murals. Less formal voice chat sessions dwell on racist, antisemitic and homophobic themes. Florida Network Director Stephen Trimboli (‘ND – ‘Lawrence FL‘) encourages members to take their girlfriends along on racist vandalism missions so they can create “blackmail” leverage against them.
And, now, this:
Proud Boys disrupted drag queen storytelling at San Lorenzo library
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:05 PM on June 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
All of your Favorite Children's Books are Gay
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:05 AM on June 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:05 AM on June 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
The optimist in me expects that the kids who are 9 today will grow up to give us the equivalent anti-backlash of the late '60s in 10 years. The pessimist in me worries that they may be refugees when they do it.
posted by eotvos at 9:26 AM on June 14, 2022
posted by eotvos at 9:26 AM on June 14, 2022
I stand by everything in my earlier comment except for the use of the word "mediocre". I was thinking of the hypothetical dress-wearing celebrity dude as a mediocre talent, not a mediocre person. I don't believe any human can be dismissed as mediocre in toto, we're all much too complicated for that, and I really dislike it when people do it. I know this thread is all but dead but it bothered me to have my name on a comment where I appeared to be contributing to the whole "mediocre" person meme.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:42 PM on June 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:42 PM on June 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
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posted by fight or flight at 4:22 AM on June 10, 2022 [85 favorites]